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[bear roars]
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NARRATOR: Wild places.
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Wilder crimes.
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These are the stories of
the elite team that solves them
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in the most dangerous
crime scenes in the world ‐‐
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our national parks.
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HAZRA:
He's a danger.
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This man has killed,
supposedly, two wives.
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‐ It looks like
a freak accident.
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‐ He learned that the death
of his wife equals money,
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at the end of the day.
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He hasn't had a job since 1992.
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♪♪
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‐ I could have been
the third victim.
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HAROLD: You never call
your old brother‐in‐law.
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‐ Oh, my gosh.
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How have I not seen through
this guy?
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‐ The last thing I wanted him
was him going home to his child.
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♪♪
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We felt like we were dealing
with a ticking time bomb.
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♪♪
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♪♪
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♪♪
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♪♪
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‐ Within days of Toni dying,
the park received a letter
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about his first wife,
Lynn Henthorn.
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And it was an anonymous letter,
but it said his first wife
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passed away
in suspicious circumstances.
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BURR:
I thought, "Oh, my gosh.
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This is two wives for Harold
that have died now."
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SHOTT: A man having one wife die
is tragic.
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A man having two wives die
is suspicious.
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And I said,
"I think we've got a case."
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♪♪
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♪♪
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♪♪
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Pretty early on
in the investigation,
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Harold very quickly
got an attorney.
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And we knew we were
never gonna get
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another interview
with him again.
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We needed to build a case on
purely circumstantial evidence,
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which is
really problematic.
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You know, of course,
you want a direct witness.
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But the only witness was
Harold himself,
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who was not talking to us.
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We may know in our hearts
that Harold had killed her,
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but we had to start
at the very beginning
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and slowly build our case.
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And then, also building
as much as we could
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the history of Harold,
Harold's comings and goings.
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So, we started questioning,
"Did he have a mistress?
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Did he have another family
somewhere?"
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TALLEY: All these trips
out of town, supposedly.
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I seriously thought
that there may be
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somebody else involved in this.
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SHOTT: At that point,
I had gotten cell records.
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And one of the individuals
that kept popping up
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in his cell record
was Grace Rishell.
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So, Grace Rishell was Harold's
former sister‐in‐law.
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Lynn Rishell, his first wife's
brother's ex‐wife.
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♪♪
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Now, Harold and Grace
are not related in any way,
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but Harold and Grace
texted and called each other
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all the time.
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HANNAN:
Harold's relationship
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with Grace Rishell
and her four daughters
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starts off
as totally understandable,
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with Harold being a more doting
uncle and brother‐in‐law
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than just about anybody
you'd ever meet.
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SHOTT:
We had to ask the question,
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"Was Grace Harold's lover?
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Is this why he killed Toni?"
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♪♪
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♪♪
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GRACE:
They were very suspicious of me.
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They were like,
"We're checking you out
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to see if you have had
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a romantic relationship
with Harold."
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[knock on door]
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♪♪
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And I'm like,
"I am an open book.
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And I will tell you
everything I know."
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I was not romantically involved
with Harold. Um...
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In December of 2007,
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my husband, Kevin, and I
separated for the first time.
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So, that was hard.
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That was ‐‐
That was difficult.
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We went through bankruptcy,
foreclosure.
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We lost our home
right before Christmas.
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I was devastated.
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I did not want
my marriage to end.
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I'd lost everything.
I mean, we had ‐‐
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I had no savings,
no nothing, at that point.
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And I thought of my girls.
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KEVIN: When I was going through
my divorce with Grace,
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Harold was involved
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in trying to separate
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my children's allegiance
from me
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and put it on himself.
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‐ Harold saw, I believe,
an exact way to fit in,
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and bond with four girls,
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which was the fun, goofy uncle.
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GRACE: Harold really began
to step it up.
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He told me he helped
single women get on their feet.
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Toni was a part of it,
and Lynn was before that.
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That's what they did.
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SHOTT: Grace sat with us for
five hours and talked with us.
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We pretty quickly determined
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that she was
not Harold's paramour.
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Grace was concerned about
her children's financial future.
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She had just gotten divorced.
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And Harold said,
"I tell you what ‐‐
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why don't you get
an insurance policy?
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And we'll make the girls
the beneficiary."
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GRACE: At first,
the insurance policy seemed like
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a gracious gift
that I could accept
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because it was for my girls.
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HAROLD: Okay. Okay, girls,
you're being recorded.
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I want to try a still shot.
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‐ Yeah.
GRACE: There's that one.
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And we thought it was fun
at the time.
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WOMAN: Yeah.
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GRACE: This is one of the things
he would do as, like,
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you know, the fun uncle ‐‐
the challenges.
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WOMAN: We talked about that
earlier, that he, like...
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‐ There was an odd sense of, um,
like we were the family
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that maybe Harold always wanted.
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WOMAN:
There's another Christmas one
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where he just looks like...
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WOMAN #2:
He always looks like our dad.
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People would say...
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‐ It was like he was trying
to insert himself.
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GRACE:
He was so present in our family.
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LAURA: He was on the phone.
I remember calling ‐‐
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all the time,
he'd call my mother.
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HAROLD: Um...
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♪♪
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GRACE:
So, in about March of 2010,
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the divorce was final,
and I'm gonna move to Texas.
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I was getting ready
to take on a new job.
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And Harold and I got into,
basically, a big fight about it.
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He didn't want me
to take this job.
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And Harold was trying to get us
to come to Colorado.
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He gets really mad at me.
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He's like, "You won't return
my phone calls."
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I'm like, "Because you want
to talk for hours.
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Harold, I don't have time."
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HAROLD: Hey, Grace.
It's Harold calling.
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Yeah, let's...
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It's Harold and Haley
calling you for...
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Gracie‐girl, it's Harold,
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calling you
about 3:00 my time...
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About 7:45 right now...
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8:15 my time.
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‐ I'm a mom. I'm trying to
work all these jobs,
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start this new job.
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HAROLD: You never call
your old brother‐in‐law
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when you're dating.
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‐ And he came back at me with,
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"After all I've spent
investing in you,
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pouring all of our knowledge,
all of our information.
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And you're not grateful."
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♪♪
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I saw him as being
very controlling
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at a whole new level.
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So, I called his broker,
and I said,
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"I am not going through with
this policy.
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No way. I'm done."
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SHOTT: And then,
we dropped the bomb on her
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that Harold
never canceled this policy.
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The policy had Harold Henthorn
as the primary beneficiary.
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Her daughters
weren't mentioned at all.
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And the policy was $400,000.
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GRACE: They tell me, "There is
an active policy on you."
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I said,
"That can't be possible.
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Yeah, there was one,
but we got in a fight.
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I told him to cancel it.
That was done.
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What are you telling me?"
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She said, "There's one
for $400,000,
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and it's paid through
till August of this year."
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I was just shocked.
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I definitely felt that I could
have been the third victim.
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I'm like, "Oh, my gosh.
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You're gonna take me away
from my girls?
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These girls that you love,
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that you've held
since they were babies?
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What have I done?
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How have I not seen through
this guy?"
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‐ She was a means to an end,
another paycheck.
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SHOTT: This policy was created
just prior to Toni's death,
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so this
is not just after Toni died,
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but before Toni died.
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LAURA: My mom was grieving
the loss of her marriage
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and her family falling apart.
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And I think Harold
was witnessing that,
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and he was already planning
to get my mother close,
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so that he could do
the same thing he's done
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to Toni and Lynn.
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GRACE: I was thinking how
he tried to get me to Colorado,
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how he tried to get me
to move there.
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SHOTT: When you first start
investigating someone,
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you don't know anything
about them.
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And then, you start
deep diving into them.
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My vision of who he is
definitely changed
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from sort of this sort of
blank‐faced unknown to,
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"I definitely think that
he is an evil person."
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I think he's truly evil.
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Early on in the investigation,
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Yvonne Bertolet ‐‐
she relayed to me a story
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that had happened pretty much
a year before Toni was killed.
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She said that this wasn't
the first time
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something bad
happened to Toni.
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Looking at the timing of that,
we believe that was
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his first attempt
to try to kill Toni.
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[siren wailing]
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♪♪
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SHOTT: One of the
very large pieces of this case
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was insurance.
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We had found out that Harold had
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00:11:10,229 --> 00:11:13,392
a $400,000 insurance policy
on Grace Rishell.
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And what we uncovered
was that there actually was
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a considerable amount
of life insurance
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on Lynn Henthorn, also ‐‐
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more than the family
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actually was led to believe
by Harold.
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Several months before Lynn died,
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he and Lynn got insurance
on each other,
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00:11:32,772 --> 00:11:34,894
a $300,000 policy.
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00:11:34,894 --> 00:11:38,978
But she already had
an insurance policy on her.
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So, why this extra insurance
at that time?
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♪♪
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He received over $600,000
from her death.
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And then, we see,
from the very beginning,
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Harold gets insurance
on Toni.
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Harold had told Ranger Faherty
in his interview
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00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,162
that Toni had
one insurance policy on her
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00:12:03,162 --> 00:12:04,844
for a million dollars.
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Well, any investigator knows,
don't believe the husband
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when they say
there's only one policy.
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So, I submitted a request
to this sort of clearinghouse
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for insurance policies.
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And I said,
"Does anybody have
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00:12:18,137 --> 00:12:20,860
any insurance policies
for Toni Henthorn?"
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00:12:23,102 --> 00:12:24,624
JENSEN:
I'm Steve Jensen.
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00:12:24,624 --> 00:12:27,466
And I'm an insurance fraud
investigator.
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00:12:27,466 --> 00:12:31,751
I was assigned by
the insurance carrier.
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00:12:31,751 --> 00:12:34,193
When I initially received
the assignment,
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I realized that there was
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a tremendous amount of red flags
in this case.
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I'm sure that there were
at least four insurance carriers
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who had issued policies.
252
00:12:49,849 --> 00:12:52,491
HANNAN: He's doing this slowly
and over time.
253
00:12:52,491 --> 00:12:55,014
There's $1.5 million in 2001,
254
00:12:55,014 --> 00:12:56,656
a year after they get married.
255
00:12:56,656 --> 00:12:59,699
There's another $1.5 million
in 2005,
256
00:12:59,699 --> 00:13:01,180
after Haley is born.
257
00:13:01,180 --> 00:13:04,904
There's another $1.5 million
in 2008.
258
00:13:04,904 --> 00:13:07,907
SHOTT: And so, that door
led to another door,
259
00:13:07,907 --> 00:13:10,069
which led to another door,
260
00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:14,594
which eventually led to
$4.7 million worth of insurance.
261
00:13:17,637 --> 00:13:21,881
‐ He's going to make
a small fortune if Toni's dead.
262
00:13:24,684 --> 00:13:27,006
SHOTT: So, all of these
insurance policies
263
00:13:27,006 --> 00:13:29,729
led up to,
at the end of the day,
264
00:13:29,729 --> 00:13:34,453
Harold getting a lot of money
if these women around him died.
265
00:13:36,616 --> 00:13:40,179
TALLEY: With Toni, looking back,
that's the thing that is
266
00:13:40,179 --> 00:13:43,062
the most upsetting
about this entire story,
267
00:13:43,062 --> 00:13:45,905
is we know now that
he probably didn't love her.
268
00:13:45,905 --> 00:13:50,550
‐ I've known Harold for a short
period of time, but he's...
269
00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:52,632
warmed my heart.
270
00:13:52,632 --> 00:13:54,674
He does and says
all the right things
271
00:13:54,674 --> 00:13:58,197
that a father‐in‐law
looks for.
272
00:13:58,197 --> 00:14:00,279
[laughter]
273
00:14:00,279 --> 00:14:01,721
MAN: He's a great salesman.
274
00:14:01,721 --> 00:14:04,043
[laughter]
275
00:14:04,043 --> 00:14:08,968
‐ If we could have known then
what we know now,
276
00:14:08,968 --> 00:14:10,489
we could have
changed things.
277
00:14:11,891 --> 00:14:14,133
SHOTT:
After Toni moved to Colorado,
278
00:14:14,133 --> 00:14:18,257
Harold started controlling her
communication with the family.
279
00:14:18,257 --> 00:14:21,220
You would call her cellphone,
and it would go to Harold's.
280
00:14:21,220 --> 00:14:22,461
[cellphone rings]
281
00:14:22,461 --> 00:14:24,343
So, Harold would pick up.
282
00:14:24,343 --> 00:14:27,947
‐ I could hear her
in the background,
283
00:14:27,947 --> 00:14:33,352
but I couldn't talk to her
like I used to do.
284
00:14:33,352 --> 00:14:34,874
MAN: Yvonne.
[man laughs]
285
00:14:34,874 --> 00:14:36,716
HANNAN: Yvonne Bertolet
goes a whole decade
286
00:14:36,716 --> 00:14:38,798
without talking in private
with her daughter,
287
00:14:38,798 --> 00:14:42,682
because Harold was
so oppressively there.
288
00:14:44,483 --> 00:14:47,446
SHOTT: He had to control almost
every situation he was in.
289
00:14:47,446 --> 00:14:50,930
And if he couldn't control the
situation, he would get angry,
290
00:14:50,930 --> 00:14:55,575
or he would get freaked out,
or he would cut that person off.
291
00:14:55,575 --> 00:14:58,017
TALLEY: Everything about Harold
was controlling ‐‐
292
00:14:58,017 --> 00:15:00,700
I mean,
every little detail.
293
00:15:00,700 --> 00:15:03,462
After Toni and Harold
got married,
294
00:15:03,462 --> 00:15:05,424
we saw them less and less.
295
00:15:05,424 --> 00:15:08,147
She dropped out of her choir
that she loved.
296
00:15:08,147 --> 00:15:09,909
She quit teaching
Sunday school.
297
00:15:09,909 --> 00:15:12,952
And he's the one that called us
and told us that.
298
00:15:12,952 --> 00:15:14,954
He had asked her
to give that up
299
00:15:14,954 --> 00:15:18,397
because it was taking away
from their marriage.
300
00:15:18,397 --> 00:15:21,721
That was one of the first
glimpses into his personality.
301
00:15:21,721 --> 00:15:25,364
So, we started seeing things
being taken from her
302
00:15:25,364 --> 00:15:28,247
one painful step at a time.
303
00:15:28,247 --> 00:15:32,091
Looking back, we should have
dug into that more.
304
00:15:32,091 --> 00:15:33,332
It was not normal.
305
00:15:36,135 --> 00:15:37,256
MAN: Yeah.
306
00:15:37,256 --> 00:15:38,417
‐ Okay.
307
00:15:42,141 --> 00:15:45,464
SHOTT: Looking at the two wives
of Harold Henthorn,
308
00:15:45,464 --> 00:15:49,348
both women were described
as extremely loving,
309
00:15:49,348 --> 00:15:50,830
Christian women.
310
00:15:50,830 --> 00:15:53,352
Successful, strong women,
but at the same time,
311
00:15:53,352 --> 00:15:56,556
very manipulated by Harold,
very controlled by Harold,
312
00:15:56,556 --> 00:15:59,559
that Harold controlled
the relationship.
313
00:15:59,559 --> 00:16:02,481
HANNAN: One of the things
that Toni's personal experience
314
00:16:02,481 --> 00:16:04,764
with Christianity taught her
was that women
315
00:16:04,764 --> 00:16:08,648
are to look to their husbands
as the authority in a marriage.
316
00:16:08,648 --> 00:16:11,971
That control is exactly
what Harold was after
317
00:16:11,971 --> 00:16:14,013
in almost every relationship
in his life,
318
00:16:14,013 --> 00:16:16,055
but most especially
with his wives.
319
00:16:17,577 --> 00:16:21,140
♪♪
320
00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:23,302
TODD: I think he took
her confidence away from her.
321
00:16:23,302 --> 00:16:26,225
I think he took
her self‐being away from her.
322
00:16:26,225 --> 00:16:28,548
I later found out
from the neighbors,
323
00:16:28,548 --> 00:16:30,429
they said, you know,
her face was empty.
324
00:16:30,429 --> 00:16:32,151
She didn't smile.
325
00:16:32,151 --> 00:16:35,635
It was kind of like
a blank stare.
326
00:16:35,635 --> 00:16:38,838
She definitely was not
the person that she was
327
00:16:38,838 --> 00:16:43,683
when she left Mississippi
to go to Colorado.
328
00:16:43,683 --> 00:16:47,366
SHOTT: Early on, in one of the
interviews with Yvonne Bertolet,
329
00:16:47,366 --> 00:16:51,290
she said, "I have to tell you
something Toni told me."
330
00:16:51,290 --> 00:16:54,854
The Henthorns had a cabin
up at Grand Lake.
331
00:16:54,854 --> 00:16:56,455
They had been up
at the cabin,
332
00:16:56,455 --> 00:16:59,659
and it was late at night,
and something happened.
333
00:16:59,659 --> 00:17:02,662
♪♪
334
00:17:02,662 --> 00:17:05,705
♪♪
335
00:17:05,705 --> 00:17:10,029
This cabin, remote area,
336
00:17:10,029 --> 00:17:12,151
one night in May 2011,
337
00:17:12,151 --> 00:17:15,595
it's him, Toni, and Haley.
338
00:17:15,595 --> 00:17:18,357
HANNAN:
And nobody else is around.
339
00:17:18,357 --> 00:17:20,720
Haley's already asleep.
340
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,642
And Harold,
for whatever reason,
341
00:17:22,642 --> 00:17:26,766
wants to clean up outside almost
in the middle of the night.
342
00:17:26,766 --> 00:17:30,289
SHOTT:
It's a small, one‐story cabin
343
00:17:30,289 --> 00:17:32,772
with a fairly sizable deck
344
00:17:32,772 --> 00:17:35,494
that goes to
a sloping area.
345
00:17:35,494 --> 00:17:38,377
There's a broken light.
346
00:17:38,377 --> 00:17:40,860
Harold was outside
on the deck,
347
00:17:40,860 --> 00:17:44,624
and he called Toni
to come help him.
348
00:17:44,624 --> 00:17:49,468
‐ And she was bending over
to pick it up.
349
00:17:49,468 --> 00:17:51,511
‐ And what happens next?
350
00:17:51,511 --> 00:17:53,152
Nobody really knows
for sure.
351
00:17:56,155 --> 00:17:58,397
‐ Something hits her
in the back of the neck.
352
00:17:58,397 --> 00:18:01,521
♪♪
353
00:18:01,521 --> 00:18:04,644
♪♪
354
00:18:04,644 --> 00:18:07,166
‐ They called 911.
This is 10:00 at night.
355
00:18:07,166 --> 00:18:09,448
And in May, at Grand Lake.
356
00:18:09,448 --> 00:18:11,210
It's pitch black out.
357
00:18:11,210 --> 00:18:13,412
[siren wailing]
358
00:18:13,412 --> 00:18:16,656
Her story to the medic is that
there was a broken light,
359
00:18:16,656 --> 00:18:19,298
and she was picking up
the broken light bulb,
360
00:18:19,298 --> 00:18:22,942
when her husband threw
a piece of wood over the deck.
361
00:18:22,942 --> 00:18:26,826
‐ And it looks like
a freak accident.
362
00:18:26,826 --> 00:18:29,468
TODD: Harold was going around
telling people,
363
00:18:29,468 --> 00:18:31,350
"No big deal,"
whatever else.
364
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:33,352
But, you know,
we found out later that,
365
00:18:33,352 --> 00:18:36,315
you know, Toni's actually crying
in the ambulance
366
00:18:36,315 --> 00:18:37,797
on the way over.
367
00:18:37,797 --> 00:18:40,960
And she said,
"What really happened to me?"
368
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,203
♪♪
369
00:18:44,203 --> 00:18:47,206
SHOTT: Toni ended up getting
transferred to Denver.
370
00:18:47,206 --> 00:18:49,809
And the final outcome
371
00:18:49,809 --> 00:18:54,213
was that she suffered damage
to her cervical spine.
372
00:18:54,213 --> 00:18:56,896
HANNAN:
She has a fractured vertebrae.
373
00:18:56,896 --> 00:18:59,619
She has lingering numbness
in her left hand.
374
00:18:59,619 --> 00:19:01,020
That's a big deal
for a surgeon,
375
00:19:01,020 --> 00:19:04,744
and that's a bad outcome
for an accident.
376
00:19:04,744 --> 00:19:07,867
SHOTT: So, you've got to
ask yourself a couple questions.
377
00:19:07,867 --> 00:19:10,189
Why was she down there
picking up a piece of glass
378
00:19:10,189 --> 00:19:11,751
at 10:00 at night?
379
00:19:11,751 --> 00:19:14,834
And why did he throw
a piece of wood over the railing
380
00:19:14,834 --> 00:19:17,837
while she's down there
picking up glass?
381
00:19:17,837 --> 00:19:19,679
HANNAN:
There's no police report, right?
382
00:19:19,679 --> 00:19:22,642
There's no crime.
383
00:19:22,642 --> 00:19:25,404
‐ Just too eerie to ignore.
384
00:19:25,404 --> 00:19:29,488
Again, we have Harold's wife
in a remote location.
385
00:19:29,488 --> 00:19:31,410
He's the only witness.
386
00:19:31,410 --> 00:19:33,372
Late at night.
387
00:19:33,372 --> 00:19:35,815
And then, varying stories
from him
388
00:19:35,815 --> 00:19:38,698
surrounding the situation,
to different people.
389
00:19:38,698 --> 00:19:41,821
HANNAN: At one point,
he says it's a 2x4.
390
00:19:41,821 --> 00:19:44,824
At one point,
he says it's a 2x6.
391
00:19:44,824 --> 00:19:47,466
At one point, he tells
the paramedic it's 20 feet long.
392
00:19:47,466 --> 00:19:50,029
We don't know, but it's big
enough to do a lot of damage.
393
00:19:50,029 --> 00:19:53,032
And he's throwing it at her
from a height.
394
00:19:56,516 --> 00:20:01,320
‐ And she said,
"If I had not reached to get
395
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,843
whatever it was
on the floor,
396
00:20:03,843 --> 00:20:07,246
I think that it would have
killed me on the spot."
397
00:20:09,809 --> 00:20:12,612
‐ I really believe that was
his first attempt at murder.
398
00:20:12,612 --> 00:20:14,333
SHOTT:
And so, as an investigator,
399
00:20:14,333 --> 00:20:15,775
you're looking at this.
400
00:20:15,775 --> 00:20:17,977
You're like,
"What else is he capable of?"
401
00:20:17,977 --> 00:20:22,461
And that's what we really needed
to dive into.
402
00:20:22,461 --> 00:20:24,784
After we sat
with Grace Rishell,
403
00:20:24,784 --> 00:20:26,586
we pretty much ruled out
the fact
404
00:20:26,586 --> 00:20:29,308
that she was part
of Harold killing Toni.
405
00:20:29,308 --> 00:20:31,631
But we still didn't know
406
00:20:31,631 --> 00:20:35,875
exactly what he was doing
on these business trips.
407
00:20:35,875 --> 00:20:38,317
Routinely, he would travel
on Thursdays, you know,
408
00:20:38,317 --> 00:20:40,840
a couple times a month,
according to the nannies
409
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,603
and the witnesses
who we interviewed.
410
00:20:43,603 --> 00:20:44,924
So, we started questioning,
411
00:20:44,924 --> 00:20:47,286
what was he doing
when he was traveling?
412
00:20:47,286 --> 00:20:50,249
Was it really for work?
413
00:20:50,249 --> 00:20:52,652
Was this reason to leave on
these, quote/unquote,
414
00:20:52,652 --> 00:20:56,656
"business trips"
a contribution to Toni's death?
415
00:20:56,656 --> 00:20:59,138
♪♪
416
00:21:02,461 --> 00:21:04,303
♪♪
417
00:21:04,303 --> 00:21:06,906
[birds chirping]
418
00:21:06,906 --> 00:21:10,069
SHOTT: The incident
with the beam at the cabin
419
00:21:10,069 --> 00:21:13,392
is in perfect alignment
with the other two incidents ‐‐
420
00:21:13,392 --> 00:21:14,994
the one with Lynn Henthorn,
421
00:21:14,994 --> 00:21:17,316
and then when Toni Henthorn
did die.
422
00:21:17,316 --> 00:21:20,680
Late at night,
remote location,
423
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,402
a pot of gold at the end
of that rainbow
424
00:21:23,402 --> 00:21:26,686
which involved the death
of his wife.
425
00:21:26,686 --> 00:21:31,090
GRACE: It's a deeper level
of just...evil.
426
00:21:31,090 --> 00:21:33,492
And I just thought,
"This is what he does.
427
00:21:33,492 --> 00:21:37,176
He's got ‐‐ This is his ‐‐
This is how he makes a living.
428
00:21:37,176 --> 00:21:38,618
This is his craft."
429
00:21:38,618 --> 00:21:42,341
♪♪
430
00:21:42,341 --> 00:21:46,065
♪♪
431
00:21:46,065 --> 00:21:47,827
SHOTT:
Early on, we were working
432
00:21:47,827 --> 00:21:50,309
with an Assistant
United States Attorney,
433
00:21:50,309 --> 00:21:53,713
but he ended up leaving
and taking another job.
434
00:21:53,713 --> 00:21:56,836
So, we needed to do
a presentation
435
00:21:56,836 --> 00:21:58,798
to the United States
Attorney's Office
436
00:21:58,798 --> 00:22:02,321
to see who we could get
assigned to the case.
437
00:22:02,321 --> 00:22:05,084
We thought it might be
a tough sell.
438
00:22:05,084 --> 00:22:07,046
And it was at that time
that we got assigned
439
00:22:07,046 --> 00:22:08,648
Suneeta and Valeria.
440
00:22:10,930 --> 00:22:12,692
SPENCER:
My name is Valeria Spencer,
441
00:22:12,692 --> 00:22:15,174
and I'm an Assistant
United States Attorney,
442
00:22:15,174 --> 00:22:18,137
which means
I'm a federal prosecutor.
443
00:22:18,137 --> 00:22:20,900
HAZRA:
My name is Suneeta Hazra.
444
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:22,982
I was the lead prosecutor
445
00:22:22,982 --> 00:22:25,985
for the prosecution
of Harold Henthorn.
446
00:22:25,985 --> 00:22:27,667
SPENCER: Because
Rocky Mountain National Park
447
00:22:27,667 --> 00:22:29,228
is a national park,
448
00:22:29,228 --> 00:22:32,471
it is federal land.
449
00:22:32,471 --> 00:22:34,514
‐ Which means that
the federal government
450
00:22:34,514 --> 00:22:37,557
prosecutes them, not the state.
451
00:22:37,557 --> 00:22:39,198
SHOTT: And I said, "Look,
you guys need to come up
452
00:22:39,198 --> 00:22:43,042
to Rocky Mountain National Park,
and see the scene.
453
00:22:43,042 --> 00:22:44,724
You have to see the scene."
454
00:22:44,724 --> 00:22:48,287
♪♪
455
00:22:48,287 --> 00:22:51,931
♪♪
456
00:22:51,931 --> 00:22:56,976
♪♪
457
00:22:56,976 --> 00:23:00,219
So, we hiked up
Deer Mountain.
458
00:23:00,219 --> 00:23:02,982
And then, we start going
off trail.
459
00:23:05,144 --> 00:23:07,507
And they're like,
"Wait a minute,
460
00:23:07,507 --> 00:23:08,788
Well, this doesn't
make sense."
461
00:23:08,788 --> 00:23:10,109
I was like...
462
00:23:10,109 --> 00:23:11,470
"See?"
463
00:23:11,470 --> 00:23:13,633
[chuckles]
464
00:23:13,633 --> 00:23:16,596
SPENCER:
We just turned off at nowhere.
465
00:23:16,596 --> 00:23:19,158
There was no indication
that there was a spot
466
00:23:19,158 --> 00:23:21,000
to turn off.
467
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,682
SHOTT: His story
that he told the rangers
468
00:23:22,682 --> 00:23:26,325
is they went off
to have some romantic time.
469
00:23:26,325 --> 00:23:28,247
HAZRA:
There's just no way.
470
00:23:28,247 --> 00:23:30,570
We knew Toni Henthorn
had bad knees.
471
00:23:30,570 --> 00:23:32,532
We knew they were
in their mid‐50s.
472
00:23:32,532 --> 00:23:35,294
You know,
it just didn't make sense.
473
00:23:35,294 --> 00:23:37,496
SHOTT: And then, we wander
through the woods,
474
00:23:37,496 --> 00:23:39,939
and then, we get
to the lunch spot.
475
00:23:39,939 --> 00:23:42,662
And they have
the "aha" moment.
476
00:23:42,662 --> 00:23:44,423
They look down
that rocky slope,
477
00:23:44,423 --> 00:23:45,825
and they said,
"There's no reason
478
00:23:45,825 --> 00:23:48,508
for Harold and Toni
to be here."
479
00:23:48,508 --> 00:23:50,750
SPENCER: And as soon as
Suneeta and I saw the site,
480
00:23:50,750 --> 00:23:52,471
we were totally on board
with them,
481
00:23:52,471 --> 00:23:56,556
and said, "Okay.
We're in 100%.
482
00:23:56,556 --> 00:23:58,798
What are we going to do
to prove this case, now?"
483
00:23:59,759 --> 00:24:02,201
[police radio chatter]
484
00:24:04,764 --> 00:24:07,366
SHOTT: We started tracking
Harold's movements
485
00:24:07,366 --> 00:24:12,131
and tailing him
to see where he would go.
486
00:24:12,131 --> 00:24:13,372
♪♪
487
00:24:13,372 --> 00:24:15,094
But he stayed local.
488
00:24:15,094 --> 00:24:17,737
He never left the area.
489
00:24:17,737 --> 00:24:21,140
So, the question was,
what was he doing with his time
490
00:24:21,140 --> 00:24:25,024
now that he
had killed Toni?
491
00:24:25,024 --> 00:24:26,786
Is he a flight risk?
492
00:24:26,786 --> 00:24:31,230
What is he doing?
Who is he meeting with?
493
00:24:31,230 --> 00:24:33,593
HANNAN: The investigators
didn't have a smoking gun,
494
00:24:33,593 --> 00:24:37,396
but there's all sorts of places
where evidence might be lurking.
495
00:24:37,396 --> 00:24:40,239
SHOTT: Are there bank accounts
we don't know about?
496
00:24:40,239 --> 00:24:42,281
Then, there's also
a question of,
497
00:24:42,281 --> 00:24:46,526
were there other women
that he may have victimized?
498
00:24:46,526 --> 00:24:48,848
So, we needed to seize
his cellphone.
499
00:24:48,848 --> 00:24:50,409
We wanted to seize
his computer.
500
00:24:50,409 --> 00:24:54,894
We wanted to know
what files and documents he had.
501
00:24:54,894 --> 00:24:57,977
And so, we realized
we were gonna have to do
502
00:24:57,977 --> 00:25:00,139
a search warrant
for his house.
503
00:25:03,222 --> 00:25:04,744
SPENCER: So, sometimes,
we take those things,
504
00:25:04,744 --> 00:25:06,305
like the computers.
505
00:25:06,305 --> 00:25:08,307
You don't know what
you're gonna find on them.
506
00:25:08,307 --> 00:25:10,109
And then, other times,
you find things
507
00:25:10,109 --> 00:25:12,031
that you didn't think of.
508
00:25:13,593 --> 00:25:16,956
‐ And then, they find it.
509
00:25:16,956 --> 00:25:21,320
And what they find
is evidence of the lie ‐‐
510
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:22,642
the biggest lie.
511
00:25:22,642 --> 00:25:26,245
♪♪
512
00:25:29,649 --> 00:25:33,212
♪♪
513
00:25:33,212 --> 00:25:37,336
♪♪
514
00:25:37,336 --> 00:25:39,138
SHOTT: Every time you do
a search warrant,
515
00:25:39,138 --> 00:25:41,581
you know it's gonna be
a long day.
516
00:25:41,581 --> 00:25:43,623
[doorbell rings]
517
00:25:43,623 --> 00:25:45,104
We ring the doorbell.
518
00:25:46,265 --> 00:25:47,947
We can't see
into the house.
519
00:25:47,947 --> 00:25:50,389
There's no movement.
520
00:25:50,389 --> 00:25:53,432
As we're sitting there,
the garage door opens.
521
00:25:57,476 --> 00:26:00,960
And so, we go up to the car
and tell Mr. Henthorn,
522
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,401
"We have a search warrant
for your house.
523
00:26:02,401 --> 00:26:03,923
Please step out
of the car."
524
00:26:03,923 --> 00:26:07,126
♪♪
525
00:26:07,126 --> 00:26:10,369
♪♪
526
00:26:10,369 --> 00:26:12,171
It's a very nice house.
527
00:26:12,171 --> 00:26:14,574
Not a lot of Toni presence
there.
528
00:26:17,336 --> 00:26:19,739
When you enter his office,
he controls it.
529
00:26:19,739 --> 00:26:21,100
It's his sanctum.
530
00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:24,584
And it was full of stuff.
531
00:26:24,584 --> 00:26:26,345
‐ What Harold was,
was a pack rat.
532
00:26:26,345 --> 00:26:28,227
And so, every single
piece of paper
533
00:26:28,227 --> 00:26:30,830
from the last 20 years
was in there.
534
00:26:30,830 --> 00:26:34,113
SHOTT: There was file cabinets
full of thousands of files ‐‐
535
00:26:34,113 --> 00:26:35,595
the boat, the cabin,
536
00:26:35,595 --> 00:26:38,598
how much is in this account,
that account.
537
00:26:38,598 --> 00:26:41,400
SPENCER: There were a lot
of nuggets there that Harold
538
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,443
didn't really count on,
or, you know, figure out
539
00:26:44,443 --> 00:26:47,807
that we would be able to find
in that house.
540
00:26:47,807 --> 00:26:49,368
SHOTT:
There were tax returns,
541
00:26:49,368 --> 00:26:51,250
which were very interesting
to us
542
00:26:51,250 --> 00:26:54,213
because pretty early into
the investigation,
543
00:26:54,213 --> 00:26:59,338
I became suspicious about Harold
and his job.
544
00:26:59,338 --> 00:27:02,301
‐ We didn't think
he was totally unemployed,
545
00:27:02,301 --> 00:27:07,667
but we thought he was
inflating what he earned.
546
00:27:10,269 --> 00:27:11,711
HANNAN: I mean,
Harold's employment history
547
00:27:11,711 --> 00:27:12,992
is really hard
to figure out, right,
548
00:27:12,992 --> 00:27:15,074
because after college,
549
00:27:15,074 --> 00:27:17,036
after graduate school
at University of Kentucky,
550
00:27:17,036 --> 00:27:21,360
he does get a real job
at Chevron in Denver.
551
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:26,245
‐ For some reason, Harold
couldn't get a project done.
552
00:27:26,245 --> 00:27:30,570
His response would be
excuse after excuse.
553
00:27:30,570 --> 00:27:35,374
His supervisor
eventually ran out of patience.
554
00:27:35,374 --> 00:27:38,057
HANNAN: And he was gonna get
fired, but ended up quitting.
555
00:27:38,057 --> 00:27:40,219
At some point,
he's selling diamonds,
556
00:27:40,219 --> 00:27:43,222
though, how successfully,
no one is really sure.
557
00:27:43,222 --> 00:27:45,104
And then,
in the early '90s,
558
00:27:45,104 --> 00:27:47,426
he went to
Colorado Christian University,
559
00:27:47,426 --> 00:27:49,869
where he did
some fundraising work.
560
00:27:49,869 --> 00:27:51,791
SHOTT: And because he wasn't
very good at it,
561
00:27:51,791 --> 00:27:54,233
the supervisor said, "We're
gonna have to let you go."
562
00:27:54,233 --> 00:27:58,558
And he came back the next day,
and said, "Oh, I'm resigning
563
00:27:58,558 --> 00:28:00,760
because I'm gonna start
my own business."
564
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,602
That was the last
known position.
565
00:28:02,602 --> 00:28:05,965
♪♪
566
00:28:05,965 --> 00:28:09,288
♪♪
567
00:28:09,288 --> 00:28:11,170
HANNAN:
Over the course of 20 years,
568
00:28:11,170 --> 00:28:14,614
not only has he not
set the world on fire,
569
00:28:14,614 --> 00:28:16,335
not only has he not
closed all these deals
570
00:28:16,335 --> 00:28:18,097
he's talked about every year
in Christmas letters...
571
00:28:20,860 --> 00:28:24,864
...but Harold made almost
nothing for two decades,
572
00:28:24,864 --> 00:28:27,827
almost zero dollars.
573
00:28:27,827 --> 00:28:29,749
SPENCER:
The tax returns show
574
00:28:29,749 --> 00:28:31,631
Harold was making
absolutely nothing
575
00:28:31,631 --> 00:28:35,795
and pretending that
he actually had some income.
576
00:28:35,795 --> 00:28:37,957
SHOTT:
He's not a businessman.
577
00:28:37,957 --> 00:28:41,000
He hasn't had a job
since 1992.
578
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,564
♪♪
579
00:28:44,564 --> 00:28:47,286
He had posed,
for almost 20 years,
580
00:28:47,286 --> 00:28:51,290
as somebody he's not,
and worked really hard at it,
581
00:28:51,290 --> 00:28:54,614
going on trips and hiring
a nanny for his daughter
582
00:28:54,614 --> 00:28:57,857
and creating business cards
and having notepads
583
00:28:57,857 --> 00:29:00,980
with development services
on the notepads.
584
00:29:00,980 --> 00:29:02,862
‐ It was as big a lie
as you can tell
585
00:29:02,862 --> 00:29:04,784
about who you were,
professionally.
586
00:29:04,784 --> 00:29:07,907
And he'd been living that
for a long, long time
587
00:29:07,907 --> 00:29:09,909
and somehow
had gotten away with it.
588
00:29:12,271 --> 00:29:13,593
SPENCER:
It was clear that this case
589
00:29:13,593 --> 00:29:15,354
was becoming
more and more complex.
590
00:29:15,354 --> 00:29:17,917
And the FBI agent
who was working with Beth Shott
591
00:29:17,917 --> 00:29:20,439
was moved
to another assignment.
592
00:29:20,439 --> 00:29:25,565
And so, Beth's one woman up
at the park handling everything.
593
00:29:25,565 --> 00:29:27,527
She was stretched pretty thin,
and we knew that
594
00:29:27,527 --> 00:29:29,128
we were going to need help
595
00:29:29,128 --> 00:29:33,412
with furthering this
investigation down the road.
596
00:29:33,412 --> 00:29:35,054
HAZRA: I reached out
597
00:29:35,054 --> 00:29:37,296
to Special Agent Jonny Grusing
of the FBI
598
00:29:37,296 --> 00:29:40,059
and asked him
if he would jump in
599
00:29:40,059 --> 00:29:43,142
and assist and work with Beth.
600
00:29:43,142 --> 00:29:45,264
And I picked Jonny
because he has
601
00:29:45,264 --> 00:29:49,709
a lot of experience doing
serial killer cases for the FBI.
602
00:29:49,709 --> 00:29:53,553
Really a methodical,
good investigator.
603
00:29:53,553 --> 00:29:55,274
GRUSING:
My name is Jonathan Grusing.
604
00:29:55,274 --> 00:29:56,796
I go by "Jonny."
605
00:29:56,796 --> 00:29:58,918
I had not worked
with the Park Service before,
606
00:29:58,918 --> 00:30:01,721
and I did not know
they had investigative agents.
607
00:30:01,721 --> 00:30:04,964
I just thought these were
the very kind, happy guys
608
00:30:04,964 --> 00:30:07,286
that pointed you to
don't litter
609
00:30:07,286 --> 00:30:11,571
and, you know, "protect your
forest land" sort of thing.
610
00:30:11,571 --> 00:30:13,252
SHOTT: He later told me
that he kind of felt
611
00:30:13,252 --> 00:30:15,414
a little sorry for me that,
here I was,
612
00:30:15,414 --> 00:30:17,857
sort of
spinning my wheels on this case.
613
00:30:17,857 --> 00:30:19,659
GRUSING:
So, I asked a couple questions.
614
00:30:19,659 --> 00:30:23,382
Did Harold have any prior arrest
history, criminal history? "No."
615
00:30:23,382 --> 00:30:25,464
Can you prove the difference
between a push and a fall?
616
00:30:25,464 --> 00:30:27,266
And they said,
"No. You can't."
617
00:30:27,266 --> 00:30:30,229
I said, "Well, you know,
I'm happy to look into it.
618
00:30:30,229 --> 00:30:32,952
But just because he's a liar,
as you guys know,
619
00:30:32,952 --> 00:30:35,635
the jury doesn't have to
find him to be a murderer."
620
00:30:38,357 --> 00:30:40,520
SPENCER: And so, we hiked up.
We did all of our work.
621
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,602
We showed him all the areas.
He looked at everything.
622
00:30:42,602 --> 00:30:44,203
And he didn't say anything.
623
00:30:44,203 --> 00:30:46,966
And so, then, Suneeta and I
were like, "Oh, no.
624
00:30:46,966 --> 00:30:49,168
You know, here's a new person,
to see it with fresh eyes,
625
00:30:49,168 --> 00:30:52,011
and he's not seeing it
the way we do."
626
00:30:52,011 --> 00:30:56,455
Jonny, being who he is, a very
quiet man, doesn't say anything.
627
00:30:56,455 --> 00:30:58,217
I can't remember
exactly when it was.
628
00:30:58,217 --> 00:30:59,779
It might have been in the car
on the way back.
629
00:30:59,779 --> 00:31:02,021
He was like,
"That man killed his wife.
630
00:31:02,021 --> 00:31:03,262
He shoved her
off that cliff."
631
00:31:03,262 --> 00:31:05,064
And we were like, "Yes!"
[laughs]
632
00:31:06,986 --> 00:31:10,750
GRUSING: So, Beth had done
a tremendous amount of work
633
00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:14,153
getting all the search warrants
and returns from Harold's phone,
634
00:31:14,153 --> 00:31:16,796
from his computer,
the house.
635
00:31:16,796 --> 00:31:19,038
They could prove
that Harold was lying.
636
00:31:19,038 --> 00:31:23,523
They could prove that he had an
insurable interest to kill Toni.
637
00:31:23,523 --> 00:31:26,806
But you couldn't prove
that he killed Toni.
638
00:31:26,806 --> 00:31:29,168
Knowing that time
is of the essence,
639
00:31:29,168 --> 00:31:32,612
if Harold truly killed
not only Toni,
640
00:31:32,612 --> 00:31:34,213
but his first wife, Lynn,
641
00:31:34,213 --> 00:31:36,976
and we had him still
running around in society,
642
00:31:36,976 --> 00:31:38,578
we needed to act quickly.
643
00:31:38,578 --> 00:31:42,742
♪♪
644
00:31:42,742 --> 00:31:46,986
♪♪
645
00:31:46,986 --> 00:31:48,107
‐ Yes.
646
00:31:51,511 --> 00:31:53,352
SHOTT:
Friends and family told us that,
647
00:31:53,352 --> 00:31:55,515
once Toni had Haley,
648
00:31:55,515 --> 00:31:59,799
it was almost like Toni was
a third wheel in that family.
649
00:31:59,799 --> 00:32:01,400
SPENCER:
It was our theory that
650
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,163
he wanted a child
very desperately.
651
00:32:04,163 --> 00:32:07,807
And once he got that child,
he didn't need Toni anymore.
652
00:32:07,807 --> 00:32:11,490
He had the person that he could
control 1,000%
653
00:32:11,490 --> 00:32:13,933
above any wife,
or anyone else in his life.
654
00:32:13,933 --> 00:32:15,174
And that was
his daughter.
655
00:32:15,174 --> 00:32:18,177
♪♪
656
00:32:18,177 --> 00:32:19,579
HAZRA: So, you wanted
to build the case,
657
00:32:19,579 --> 00:32:21,861
but you also knew
someone who we believed
658
00:32:21,861 --> 00:32:23,823
had murdered
two different people
659
00:32:23,823 --> 00:32:25,745
and was living with
a young child,
660
00:32:25,745 --> 00:32:27,466
was out there.
661
00:32:27,466 --> 00:32:28,828
So, we all felt like
662
00:32:28,828 --> 00:32:30,590
we were dealing
with a ticking time bomb.
663
00:32:30,590 --> 00:32:32,952
♪♪
664
00:32:36,235 --> 00:32:38,758
♪♪
665
00:32:38,758 --> 00:32:41,961
GRUSING:
Toni was right under here.
666
00:32:41,961 --> 00:32:45,965
We've got this guy, and we think
he killed both his wives.
667
00:32:45,965 --> 00:32:49,168
And he most likely had
an inner circle of people
668
00:32:49,168 --> 00:32:51,450
that weren't willing
to talk yet,
669
00:32:51,450 --> 00:32:55,334
people that I knew had
critical pieces to tell us,
670
00:32:55,334 --> 00:32:58,818
that may even link Lynn's death
and Toni's death.
671
00:32:58,818 --> 00:33:01,220
‐ And the opportunity is gonna
be these remote locations
672
00:33:01,220 --> 00:33:02,862
that he brings these women to.
GRUSING: Yeah.
673
00:33:02,862 --> 00:33:05,865
SHOTT: We did try to interview
his family,
674
00:33:05,865 --> 00:33:09,148
and they refused an interview
with us.
675
00:33:09,148 --> 00:33:11,751
That has some really
eerie similarities.
676
00:33:11,751 --> 00:33:14,073
The information
that we did piece together
677
00:33:14,073 --> 00:33:16,796
from his childhood
was little bits and pieces
678
00:33:16,796 --> 00:33:19,599
from friends that did
speak with us.
679
00:33:24,363 --> 00:33:26,686
♪♪
680
00:33:26,686 --> 00:33:28,367
WHITENER:
My name is Myra Whitener,
681
00:33:28,367 --> 00:33:33,813
and I went to junior high
school, high school with Harold.
682
00:33:33,813 --> 00:33:38,297
We remained friends
throughout our whole lives.
683
00:33:38,297 --> 00:33:41,380
For all of us, honestly,
he was obnoxious,
684
00:33:41,380 --> 00:33:43,262
but you just kind of
overlook that
685
00:33:43,262 --> 00:33:45,464
because he was
so charming, too.
686
00:33:48,147 --> 00:33:49,829
Harold didn't want to
go home a lot.
687
00:33:49,829 --> 00:33:53,392
I think that's probably
why he hung out at our house.
688
00:33:53,392 --> 00:33:57,036
‐ Casting around for ideas
of why Harold is who he is,
689
00:33:57,036 --> 00:33:58,918
you can be way
too simplistic,
690
00:33:58,918 --> 00:34:01,721
but, also, you can probably
be right at the same time.
691
00:34:01,721 --> 00:34:04,964
And I think it all
comes down to his dad.
692
00:34:04,964 --> 00:34:08,367
SHOTT: Our understanding
was that his father
693
00:34:08,367 --> 00:34:10,369
was abusive to him
as a child.
694
00:34:10,369 --> 00:34:12,371
And we don't know
exactly to what extent.
695
00:34:14,534 --> 00:34:16,255
HANNAN:
He was an alcoholic.
696
00:34:16,255 --> 00:34:18,457
He was violent.
697
00:34:18,457 --> 00:34:19,779
It was bad.
698
00:34:22,662 --> 00:34:24,544
WHITENER: That's one thing
Harold always said ‐‐
699
00:34:24,544 --> 00:34:29,388
"I will never drink, and I will
never hit a woman," he said,
700
00:34:29,388 --> 00:34:31,270
which is why it's shocking.
701
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:35,875
♪♪
702
00:34:35,875 --> 00:34:37,557
Oh, geez.
703
00:34:37,557 --> 00:34:40,159
♪♪
704
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:42,642
FOX: I'm sure that there were
some early warning signs,
705
00:34:42,642 --> 00:34:45,525
maybe even going back
to childhood.
706
00:34:45,525 --> 00:34:47,687
I'm Bryanna Fox.
707
00:34:47,687 --> 00:34:50,409
I study
the criminal behavior
708
00:34:50,409 --> 00:34:54,654
and basically why people
commit crimes in specific ways.
709
00:34:54,654 --> 00:34:57,096
I think there's
a few different reasons
710
00:34:57,096 --> 00:34:59,859
why he was so drawn to women
711
00:34:59,859 --> 00:35:01,941
that were,
you know, loving, caring,
712
00:35:01,941 --> 00:35:04,744
from these
wonderful families.
713
00:35:04,744 --> 00:35:06,465
HANNAN: If you're from
that kind of house,
714
00:35:06,465 --> 00:35:09,228
you don't have an example
of how to build a good life.
715
00:35:09,228 --> 00:35:12,471
You're reaching and grabbing
for everything you can.
716
00:35:12,471 --> 00:35:14,834
WHITENER: Harold always wanted
to have a family.
717
00:35:14,834 --> 00:35:17,236
He wanted to be
a "family man."
718
00:35:17,236 --> 00:35:19,198
GRUSING: If you're going to be
a good predator,
719
00:35:19,198 --> 00:35:21,200
if you're gonna be a good wolf
in sheep's clothing,
720
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,882
you have to look
like a sheep.
721
00:35:22,882 --> 00:35:25,805
Harold had to condition himself
to show emotion.
722
00:35:28,007 --> 00:35:31,330
SHOTT: Lynn and Toni
were loving, Christian women,
723
00:35:31,330 --> 00:35:35,855
and I think Harold
used that.
724
00:35:35,855 --> 00:35:40,540
I think, for him,
they were props in his facade.
725
00:35:40,540 --> 00:35:42,301
HANNAN:
And he's all about presentation.
726
00:35:42,301 --> 00:35:44,463
He needed everybody to know
how smart
727
00:35:44,463 --> 00:35:48,748
and how powerful
and how rich he was.
728
00:35:48,748 --> 00:35:51,310
GRACE: Everything he's told me
about his jobs ‐‐
729
00:35:51,310 --> 00:35:53,312
And who knows
about his education?
730
00:35:53,312 --> 00:35:56,636
Who knows if anything
he's ever said is true?
731
00:35:56,636 --> 00:35:59,158
He has lied to me about ‐‐
732
00:35:59,158 --> 00:36:00,520
about everything.
733
00:36:02,001 --> 00:36:06,245
He lied so much
that he forgot who he lied to.
734
00:36:08,207 --> 00:36:11,170
GRUSING: People like Harold,
they're compulsive liars.
735
00:36:11,170 --> 00:36:13,973
So, they will tell you
story one,
736
00:36:13,973 --> 00:36:16,175
and if you raise
your eyebrows,
737
00:36:16,175 --> 00:36:18,778
or if you blink too long,
then, they'll go to story two.
738
00:36:18,778 --> 00:36:21,340
They could care less
what anybody else believes,
739
00:36:21,340 --> 00:36:24,463
as long as you tell them
you believe the story.
740
00:36:24,463 --> 00:36:26,265
SHOTT:
He would tell different versions
741
00:36:26,265 --> 00:36:27,987
of the story
about Lynn's death.
742
00:36:27,987 --> 00:36:29,949
And then, he would tell
different versions of the story
743
00:36:29,949 --> 00:36:32,391
about Toni's death.
744
00:36:32,391 --> 00:36:36,475
GRUSING: A narcissist has no
empathy for people around him,
745
00:36:36,475 --> 00:36:41,120
and every even little statement
has to go towards
746
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:45,725
a building up of the perception
or image of that person.
747
00:36:45,725 --> 00:36:47,406
FOX:
Having never met him,
748
00:36:47,406 --> 00:36:49,488
it's difficult to,
with full certainty,
749
00:36:49,488 --> 00:36:52,732
say exactly what
he may qualify as.
750
00:36:52,732 --> 00:36:55,575
But cunning and manipulation
of others,
751
00:36:55,575 --> 00:36:57,376
narcissism and grandiosity,
752
00:36:57,376 --> 00:36:59,699
pathological lying,
very low empathy,
753
00:36:59,699 --> 00:37:01,340
not taking responsibility
for actions,
754
00:37:01,340 --> 00:37:03,663
constantly blaming others.
755
00:37:03,663 --> 00:37:06,385
These are things that,
throughout this case,
756
00:37:06,385 --> 00:37:10,069
we just see not one time,
but consistently appearing,
757
00:37:10,069 --> 00:37:13,112
over and over
and over again.
758
00:37:13,112 --> 00:37:16,075
The pattern is very strong
and consistent
759
00:37:16,075 --> 00:37:18,437
that he shows many traits
and features
760
00:37:18,437 --> 00:37:22,522
consistent with psychopathy,
of being a psychopath.
761
00:37:26,085 --> 00:37:29,408
GRUSING: I think Harold is
different than most psychopaths
762
00:37:29,408 --> 00:37:31,891
because he's not someone
who's going to hurt a stranger.
763
00:37:31,891 --> 00:37:34,333
He's fine to strangers.
764
00:37:34,333 --> 00:37:37,296
But I believe that,
the closer you are to Harold,
765
00:37:37,296 --> 00:37:41,581
the more likelihood that
he's going to harm or kill you.
766
00:37:41,581 --> 00:37:43,623
♪♪
767
00:37:43,623 --> 00:37:47,386
‐ There was concern,
after Toni died,
768
00:37:47,386 --> 00:37:51,350
that Harold's attention to Haley
was almost too much ‐‐
769
00:37:51,350 --> 00:37:52,792
that it was obsessive.
770
00:37:52,792 --> 00:37:54,914
And some friends and family
voiced concern
771
00:37:54,914 --> 00:37:57,877
that they were worried
for Haley's welfare.
772
00:37:59,478 --> 00:38:03,603
HANNAN: The Bertolets,
their main concern is Haley.
773
00:38:03,603 --> 00:38:07,006
At one point,
the Bertolets have this plan.
774
00:38:07,006 --> 00:38:10,409
TODD: We were pretending that
we were supporting Harold.
775
00:38:10,409 --> 00:38:15,054
But on the other hand, we were
an inside source for information
776
00:38:15,054 --> 00:38:19,018
for Beth Shott and the FBI.
777
00:38:19,018 --> 00:38:21,981
We're all
playing this game.
778
00:38:21,981 --> 00:38:23,503
And the whole time,
you're thinking,
779
00:38:23,503 --> 00:38:26,465
"This man
murdered my sister."
780
00:38:26,465 --> 00:38:29,148
SHOTT: And Haley was gonna
be alone with Harold,
781
00:38:29,148 --> 00:38:32,031
without their influence,
if they confronted him.
782
00:38:32,031 --> 00:38:34,994
So, that scared them, I think.
783
00:38:34,994 --> 00:38:37,476
FOX:
It seems very likely,
784
00:38:37,476 --> 00:38:39,358
based upon the pattern
of behaviors
785
00:38:39,358 --> 00:38:41,881
that Harold was exhibiting
over all of these years,
786
00:38:41,881 --> 00:38:46,125
Haley, she could have
easily been at risk.
787
00:38:46,125 --> 00:38:47,567
Or, if she was saying,
788
00:38:47,567 --> 00:38:49,248
"No. I don't want to live
this way anymore,"
789
00:38:49,248 --> 00:38:52,011
that could have ended
with her, you know,
790
00:38:52,011 --> 00:38:54,734
potentially ending up
just like her mother.
791
00:38:54,734 --> 00:38:58,377
♪♪
792
00:38:58,377 --> 00:39:01,981
♪♪
793
00:39:03,503 --> 00:39:09,188
♪♪
794
00:39:09,188 --> 00:39:14,914
♪♪
795
00:39:14,914 --> 00:39:20,640
♪♪
796
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:26,365
♪♪
797
00:39:26,365 --> 00:39:32,051
♪♪
798
00:39:32,051 --> 00:39:37,777
♪♪