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00:00:07,048 --> 00:00:09,134
[theme music playing]

2
00:00:15,682 --> 00:00:17,017
[music ends]

3
00:00:18,685 --> 00:00:20,853
[dramatic string music playing]

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00:00:20,854 --> 00:00:23,188
[man 1] <i>There are
as many possible chess games</i>

5
00:00:23,189 --> 00:00:25,233
<i>as atoms in the visible universe.</i>

6
00:00:27,694 --> 00:00:30,237
[man 2] <i>31-year-old
Norwegian Magnus Carlsen</i>

7
00:00:30,238 --> 00:00:32,198
<i>is the current World Chess Champion.</i>

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00:00:34,659 --> 00:00:39,080
{\an8}[man 3] <i>…reigns supreme in a sport played
by 500 million people.</i>

9
00:00:39,956 --> 00:00:43,584
{\an8}[man 4] <i>Magnus must remember
the position of 320 pieces</i>

10
00:00:43,585 --> 00:00:47,504
{\an8}<i>while calculating ten moves
and countermoves on each board.</i>

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00:00:47,505 --> 00:00:50,049
[announcer] Magnus wins on all boards.

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00:00:50,050 --> 00:00:55,096
[Magnus] <i>I can see these things
immediately, where other people see chaos.</i>

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{\an8}[man 4] <i>That is that, ladies
and gentlemen. Carlsen has won…</i>

14
00:01:01,936 --> 00:01:02,978
[man 5] <i>Magnus Carlsen…</i>

15
00:01:02,979 --> 00:01:07,192
Magnus Carlsen has this edge mentally
that nobody else possesses.

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00:01:07,901 --> 00:01:13,530
I've been the definite best player
in the world now for 12 to 13 years.

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[dramatic music continues]

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[man 6] <i>Magnus Carlsen is doing things
no human being I've met before can do.</i>

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[interviewer] <i>Do you
consider yourself a genius?</i>

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[Magnus' father] Do I ever wonder
why he was given this gift?

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Are we living in a simulation?

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<i>I'm Magnus Carlsen.</i>

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[overlapping TV hosts] Magnus Carlsen.

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<i>The Mozart of Chess!
One of the great geniuses of our time…</i>

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<i>- Please welcome Magnus Carlsen!
- The reigning five-time world champion.</i>

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[dramatic music fades out]

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[reporter 1] <i>Magnus Carlsen was defeated
in a major upset at the Sinquefield Cup.</i>

28
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[reporter 2] <i>Magnus Carlsen just resigned.</i>

29
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[reporter 3] <i>Carlsen lost
to this younger player.</i>

30
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[reporter 4] <i>Sending
the chess world into chaos.</i>

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- [sirens blaring]
- [Hans] <i>Does chess make you insane?</i>

32
00:02:00,870 --> 00:02:02,454
<i>Or does chess</i> keep <i>you sane?</i>

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[news anchor] One of the greatest
chess champions of all time

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{\an8}is accusing a fellow player of cheating.

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[reporter] <i>He explicitly accused
19-year-old American Hans Niemann.</i>

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00:02:12,674 --> 00:02:15,092
[Hans] All I did was play a chess game,
and I beat him.

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00:02:15,093 --> 00:02:17,970
He's entered a level of paranoia
that is not, like, sane.

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- [shouting]
- He's created a monster.

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And while he's old,

40
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I'm gonna be young, improving.

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00:02:22,767 --> 00:02:24,935
And the best player,
he's gonna have to watch.

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00:02:24,936 --> 00:02:28,231
And every fucking day of his life,
he's gonna have to realize that

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00:02:29,399 --> 00:02:30,524
he did this to me.

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[dramatic music playing]

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[man 1] <i>The community
doesn't like people who cheat.</i>

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[Hans] Of course it's fucking coordinated.
It's a genuine conspiracy against me.

47
00:02:38,158 --> 00:02:41,326
Just, people think he's cheating.
It's as simple as that.

48
00:02:41,327 --> 00:02:43,245
They think I'm cheating. Are they crazy?

49
00:02:43,246 --> 00:02:46,707
- Is Hans cheating over the board?
- [man 2] This is war, isn't it?

50
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[music ends]

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[Hans] They did this all
because of a personal vendetta.

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Have you ever used anal beads
while playing chess?

53
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[dramatic stinger]

54
00:03:03,766 --> 00:03:05,768
[gentle music playing]

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[Hans] Sometimes I wonder
how my life would be without chess.

56
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And I think it's a blessing and a curse.

57
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I've thought about this a lot.
Like, what price do you pay for genius?

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{\an8}Because of course, my mind, you know,

59
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{\an8}is capable of things that, you know,
make me a pretty good chess player

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00:03:50,313 --> 00:03:54,900
and good at other things,
but that comes with an emotional price,

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and that's probably
why I was never normal.

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When I told my parents at 16,
"I'm gonna move to New York,

63
00:04:03,243 --> 00:04:06,287
I'm gonna live alone, pay for rent,"
they… everyone called me crazy.

64
00:04:09,249 --> 00:04:11,625
But I knew
that I needed to prove to myself

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I could be the best chess player
in the world.

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And that took precedent
over living with my family

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and having security.

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[music fades out]

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There was periods where I didn't speak
to a single person for two months.

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But… I used to go on
these 30-hour benders. I wouldn't sleep.

71
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And I would literally just stay up,
solving chess puzzles nonstop.

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I just consumed
everything I could about chess.

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[intriguing music playing]

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{\an8}I liked to watch interviews
with past players.

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{\an8}I'd analyze their games.

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I'd be working on the openings,
absorbing everything I could.

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Bobby saw six moves ahead here.
He just didn't see <i>seven</i> moves ahead.

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I'd sit at my computer
for 12 to 16 hours a day,

79
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- just playing thousands of games a month.
- [computer mouse clicking]

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And I understood
that the only way for me to improve

81
00:05:03,344 --> 00:05:05,512
was to play against people
much better than me.

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Every opportunity for me to play
against the best players in the world

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was a chance to just absorb that strength.

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And every single top player
is playing on Chess.com.

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It's the entire fucking chess ecosystem.

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There's no alternative.

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[music becomes upbeat]

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They have a monopoly over online chess.

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It would be correct to say we don't look
like the average chess player.

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[Danny] When I say "chess player," people
think of an old white guy from Russia.

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{\an8}"Chess is not cool. It's super hard."

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{\an8}"It's only for nerds.
It's not something that's for me."

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{\an8}And that's really a big reason
why Chess.com has the "pawn" as the logo.

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Because chess is for the pawns.

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The pawn potential to move up the board
and be whatever you want to be.

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- Chess is for everybody.
- [music fades out]

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00:06:00,526 --> 00:06:02,528
[speaking Spanish]

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00:06:04,739 --> 00:06:07,075
[in English] Welcome to
another <i>Under the Green Pawn</i>.

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00:06:07,742 --> 00:06:12,079
[Erik] Chess.com started
as an idea in 2005

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00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,664
that I wanted to build
the MySpace of chess.

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[intriguing music playing]

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We officially opened in May of 2007.

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Here's the hall. Wish me luck.
See you on the other side.

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[Erik] But it was really small potatoes.

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I was turning down jobs
at Facebook and Palantir and YouTube,

106
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and everybody in Silicon Valley
was telling us

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chess would never be big enough
to be investable

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and just kind of like
laughing us out of the office a bit.

109
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We were always the underdog.

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Till COVID.

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[music ends]

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[Trump] Today
the World Health Organization

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officially announced
that this is a global pandemic.

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<i>♪ Imagine there's no heaven ♪</i>

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[people clamoring]

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[man 1] <i>The murder hornet--</i>

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- [man 2] I think it's a filter.
- [man 3] I don't know how to remove it.

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- [exciting music playing]
- The pandemic was absolutely bonkers,

119
00:07:00,670 --> 00:07:03,464
but for chess, it was unreal.

120
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We could see it
in the server logs and registrations.

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{\an8}Each country that got locked down,
registration spike.

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{\an8}Italy was first to lock down.

123
00:07:14,350 --> 00:07:16,060
{\an8}Registrations in Italy, boom.

124
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And next was India.
Registrations in India, boom.

125
00:07:22,567 --> 00:07:25,569
And every country, as it got locked down,

126
00:07:25,570 --> 00:07:28,990
registrations bumping up,
four or five x. Overnight.

127
00:07:31,242 --> 00:07:32,826
{\an8}I thought we'd play some chess.

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00:07:32,827 --> 00:07:34,162
{\an8}I'd like to play chess.

129
00:07:35,455 --> 00:07:39,583
[Erik] And then <i>The Queen's Gambit</i> show
on Netflix came along.

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00:07:39,584 --> 00:07:42,711
{\an8}Those waves hit each other and spiked.

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[reporter] <i>At Chess.com this month,
more than two million new members.</i>

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00:07:46,799 --> 00:07:50,385
[Danny] We literally did go
from a million daily active users

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00:07:50,386 --> 00:07:53,263
to five, six million daily active people,
playing chess.

134
00:07:53,264 --> 00:07:54,806
It was crazy.

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00:07:54,807 --> 00:07:56,766
[interviewer] What's the company
currently worth?

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00:07:56,767 --> 00:08:01,814
Probably… gettin' close
to a billion dollars in value.

137
00:08:02,398 --> 00:08:03,523
That's my guess.

138
00:08:03,524 --> 00:08:06,902
Do I care?
Not really, but that's my guess.

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00:08:06,903 --> 00:08:08,236
[screaming] Fuck!

140
00:08:08,237 --> 00:08:11,323
During the pandemic,
we were constantly thinking about,

141
00:08:11,324 --> 00:08:13,116
where is our next growth opportunity?

142
00:08:13,117 --> 00:08:14,618
What the fuck just happened here?

143
00:08:14,619 --> 00:08:17,412
And we saw influencers
playing chess en masse,

144
00:08:17,413 --> 00:08:18,748
like we'd never seen before.

145
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And it became my job
to choose the next stars

146
00:08:22,210 --> 00:08:23,835
and build the streaming program.

147
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- Send this to overtime!
- Change of queen!

148
00:08:25,838 --> 00:08:28,507
Danny became maybe
the most important person

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00:08:28,508 --> 00:08:30,468
in the entire chess community.

150
00:08:31,135 --> 00:08:32,719
We changed chess yet again today.

151
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,888
I love you and <i>salud</i>.

152
00:08:34,889 --> 00:08:37,557
You're in this position
where you're the gatekeeper,

153
00:08:37,558 --> 00:08:40,936
the key master
to someone's hopes and dreams.

154
00:08:40,937 --> 00:08:42,855
And everybody wanted to be a star.

155
00:08:43,731 --> 00:08:46,441
Get out of here!

156
00:08:46,442 --> 00:08:50,904
You just got owned!

157
00:08:50,905 --> 00:08:54,075
Before the pandemic,
I didn't really know Hans Niemann.

158
00:08:54,575 --> 00:08:56,577
- I knew--
- [laughing]

159
00:08:57,537 --> 00:08:58,745
Hans!

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00:08:58,746 --> 00:09:00,372
You just got owned!

161
00:09:00,373 --> 00:09:02,332
All of the biggest chess creators,

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00:09:02,333 --> 00:09:04,585
people you see now
with millions of subscribers,

163
00:09:05,169 --> 00:09:06,294
they were nobodies.

164
00:09:06,295 --> 00:09:10,715
And then Chess.com artif…
created their careers.

165
00:09:10,716 --> 00:09:12,759
- [screaming]
- [laughing]

166
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,594
{\an8}Okay, finish him.

167
00:09:14,595 --> 00:09:17,138
{\an8}[Hans] Chess became a fad.
It became a trend.

168
00:09:17,139 --> 00:09:19,015
{\an8}When there's a trend, everyone follows.

169
00:09:19,016 --> 00:09:22,269
[Hans in video] Yo, 2,700 viewers. Damn.

170
00:09:22,270 --> 00:09:24,854
These guys are…
You guys are enjoying this.

171
00:09:24,855 --> 00:09:27,108
There's always opportunity
if you look for it.

172
00:09:27,858 --> 00:09:30,860
So, I just start streaming
on Twitch every single day.

173
00:09:30,861 --> 00:09:32,529
Dude, you watch Twitch?

174
00:09:32,530 --> 00:09:34,906
- Are you Hans Niemann?
- I'm Hans Niemann!

175
00:09:34,907 --> 00:09:36,199
Oh shit! Yo!

176
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,035
[Danny] Here was
a young talented American…

177
00:09:39,036 --> 00:09:40,203
[snickering]

178
00:09:40,204 --> 00:09:42,789
…with an insane amount of self-confidence.

179
00:09:42,790 --> 00:09:46,001
Let's be civil, let's be mature,
and let's continue with the show.

180
00:09:46,002 --> 00:09:47,002
He's got bravado.

181
00:09:47,003 --> 00:09:48,004
Yeah!

182
00:09:49,505 --> 00:09:53,466
And it made sense for us to work together
and help him become a streaming star.

183
00:09:53,467 --> 00:09:55,927
I became someone who was mentoring him.

184
00:09:55,928 --> 00:09:58,847
{\an8}Speaking of our participants,
they're ready to roll.

185
00:09:58,848 --> 00:10:00,140
{\an8}As we see Hans Niemann,

186
00:10:00,141 --> 00:10:03,059
{\an8}he's got his Doritos,
which is his <i>favoritos</i> snack.

187
00:10:03,060 --> 00:10:07,440
{\an8}Everything about our relationship
was met with a full partnership.

188
00:10:08,190 --> 00:10:10,275
And Hans was special to us.

189
00:10:10,276 --> 00:10:12,027
{\an8}[Hans] Rook e7.

190
00:10:12,028 --> 00:10:13,653
{\an8}Suck my balls.

191
00:10:13,654 --> 00:10:15,156
I had quite a big fan base.

192
00:10:15,740 --> 00:10:17,907
[screaming, pounding on desk]

193
00:10:17,908 --> 00:10:19,535
[Hans] The rage is not for the camera.

194
00:10:21,162 --> 00:10:22,829
Unfortunately, it's just how I am.

195
00:10:22,830 --> 00:10:24,956
Tick tock, tick, tick, tick!

196
00:10:24,957 --> 00:10:26,958
[Hans] What set me apart
from other streamers

197
00:10:26,959 --> 00:10:30,253
was everyone else was so boring
that I seemed interesting in contrast.

198
00:10:30,254 --> 00:10:33,966
[shouting] How! How is he so smart?!

199
00:10:35,301 --> 00:10:37,011
All right, let's play something slow.

200
00:10:37,511 --> 00:10:41,390
Nothing fancy-schmancy.
Just keep it very slow and controlled.

201
00:10:43,017 --> 00:10:44,935
I am Hikaru Nakamura.

202
00:10:45,478 --> 00:10:47,187
I am a grandmaster.

203
00:10:47,188 --> 00:10:50,523
{\an8}Currently ranked number three in the world
at the great game of chess.

204
00:10:50,524 --> 00:10:54,986
{\an8}Computer will tell you guys if I'm wrong,
but I think king f6, is the only…

205
00:10:54,987 --> 00:10:57,155
Hans, he's someone
I would compete against,

206
00:10:57,156 --> 00:10:58,531
playing blitz games online.

207
00:10:58,532 --> 00:11:01,368
It was very clear he was a strong player.
No doubt about it.

208
00:11:01,369 --> 00:11:03,787
Whoa, what? No, this is insane.

209
00:11:03,788 --> 00:11:07,165
But I didn't really particularly care
for his brand of antics.

210
00:11:07,166 --> 00:11:09,793
[Hans screaming, pounding on desk]

211
00:11:09,794 --> 00:11:13,254
The old-school chess establishment,
the view is you have to be very proper.

212
00:11:13,255 --> 00:11:16,758
You win, you say, "I won the game."
You lose, "Guy played better than me."

213
00:11:16,759 --> 00:11:18,510
[man] My congratulations, sir.

214
00:11:18,511 --> 00:11:20,179
A brilliant coup.

215
00:11:20,763 --> 00:11:22,555
[Hikaru] But Hans is very wild.

216
00:11:22,556 --> 00:11:24,808
When he lost games,
he would scream, he'd yell.

217
00:11:24,809 --> 00:11:27,644
When he'd win games, he'd be like,
"I'm the greatest in the world."

218
00:11:27,645 --> 00:11:28,770
I am a God.

219
00:11:28,771 --> 00:11:32,858
Now, sit the fuck down
and get with the flow.

220
00:11:33,651 --> 00:11:36,111
You know, why not? Why not speak my mind?

221
00:11:36,112 --> 00:11:38,196
[Hikaru] Some people like that.
Some people don't.

222
00:11:38,197 --> 00:11:41,032
So while the fans enjoyed it,
there are people in the chess world

223
00:11:41,033 --> 00:11:43,785
who were not fans of that
and thought it was disrespectful,

224
00:11:43,786 --> 00:11:47,622
and it wasn't fitting
for someone who was a serious player.

225
00:11:47,623 --> 00:11:49,332
[Hans] Players would talk about it.

226
00:11:49,333 --> 00:11:50,917
"Why does he do this, do that?"

227
00:11:50,918 --> 00:11:52,460
And they think it's so crazy,

228
00:11:52,461 --> 00:11:56,464
but in the world of sports,
it's not that crazy. It's normal.

229
00:11:56,465 --> 00:11:58,466
First of all, people are absolute idiots

230
00:11:58,467 --> 00:12:00,969
because the explanation
I'm gonna give is gonna make

231
00:12:00,970 --> 00:12:02,721
all the top GMs look like idiots.

232
00:12:02,722 --> 00:12:06,641
Why do <i>I</i> have to be held to the standard
of being so polite and nice?

233
00:12:06,642 --> 00:12:09,561
Nice guys, you know,
they finish last, as they say.

234
00:12:09,562 --> 00:12:10,938
And I'm not a nice guy.

235
00:12:11,522 --> 00:12:14,275
You can't be a nice guy
and be a champion, unfortunately.

236
00:12:15,359 --> 00:12:17,945
- [tense music playing]
- [thunder rumbling]

237
00:12:28,289 --> 00:12:29,248
[indistinct]

238
00:12:35,045 --> 00:12:36,839
[speaking Norwegian]

239
00:12:38,966 --> 00:12:42,552
[Magnus in English] I've sometimes
just found it very surprising

240
00:12:42,553 --> 00:12:45,638
that I'm the best
in the world at something.

241
00:12:45,639 --> 00:12:48,267
[both speaking Norwegian]

242
00:12:50,478 --> 00:12:54,356
[Magnus in English] 'Cause I don't
consider myself particularly remarkable.

243
00:12:55,149 --> 00:12:59,068
{\an8}I know that I'm relatively bright,
but I'm not a genius.

244
00:12:59,069 --> 00:13:01,154
{\an8}Like, I'm not something amazing.

245
00:13:01,155 --> 00:13:04,616
I only know that
when I sit down at the board,

246
00:13:04,617 --> 00:13:07,744
I am better than the other guy.

247
00:13:07,745 --> 00:13:09,370
[laughing]

248
00:13:09,371 --> 00:13:11,582
[tense music continues]

249
00:13:13,918 --> 00:13:18,755
[Magnus] I sometimes feel
as though I don't deserve it.

250
00:13:18,756 --> 00:13:23,135
I feel like, at times,
it's come kind of easy to me.

251
00:13:24,637 --> 00:13:28,765
There are probably people
who have worked a lot harder

252
00:13:28,766 --> 00:13:31,727
who haven't reached as far.

253
00:13:33,312 --> 00:13:35,313
[interviewer] What do you know about Hans?

254
00:13:35,314 --> 00:13:37,565
[Magnus] I had played him
a couple of times online.

255
00:13:37,566 --> 00:13:41,110
And it was, at times, quite entertaining

256
00:13:41,111 --> 00:13:44,280
'cause his mood swings
would be pretty wild.

257
00:13:44,281 --> 00:13:46,950
Chat, we're playing fucking Magnus!

258
00:13:46,951 --> 00:13:48,993
We're playing Magnus Carlsen!

259
00:13:48,994 --> 00:13:51,371
[Hans] I was just this kid
who didn't view himself

260
00:13:51,372 --> 00:13:53,081
as this potential champion.

261
00:13:53,082 --> 00:13:55,251
And suddenly, here I am, playing Magnus.

262
00:13:56,293 --> 00:13:59,796
Playing the world champion,
a player I've looked up to for so long.

263
00:13:59,797 --> 00:14:01,256
So of course I'm excited.

264
00:14:01,257 --> 00:14:02,466
Holy shit!

265
00:14:03,259 --> 00:14:08,597
He was pretty decent,
but I still won the game quite easily.

266
00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:11,976
Mate. Very pleasing.

267
00:14:13,018 --> 00:14:14,060
[music ends]

268
00:14:14,061 --> 00:14:20,234
He's a good player
who happens to be American and talk a lot.

269
00:14:20,818 --> 00:14:22,026
[chuckles softly]

270
00:14:22,027 --> 00:14:24,279
There's a clip that I watch back.

271
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,241
And in this clip, I say like,
"You might not believe in me."

272
00:14:28,242 --> 00:14:30,118
"You might all think I'm crazy, but…"

273
00:14:30,119 --> 00:14:32,912
[shouting] There will be a day
where I take down Magnus

274
00:14:32,913 --> 00:14:36,917
and where I rise to the best in the world!

275
00:14:37,793 --> 00:14:41,671
And you guys will be there
every single step of the way.

276
00:14:41,672 --> 00:14:44,883
There was a journey behind it.
People wanted to see the underdog kid

277
00:14:44,884 --> 00:14:47,635
overcome the top players in the world.

278
00:14:47,636 --> 00:14:49,679
We've got fucking so many GMs,

279
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,932
and the little IM,
who no one thought could do it,

280
00:14:52,933 --> 00:14:54,310
fucking qualified!

281
00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:57,645
I won like 30 grand a month on Chess.com.

282
00:14:57,646 --> 00:14:59,565
I was one of
the best players on the website.

283
00:15:02,192 --> 00:15:05,320
And I was beating all these,
you know, grandmasters.

284
00:15:05,321 --> 00:15:07,614
The top players in the world.

285
00:15:07,615 --> 00:15:11,327
I thought if I could beat them online,
why can't I beat them face to face?

286
00:15:12,036 --> 00:15:15,998
And I knew that I had to prove myself
to the chess world over the board.

287
00:15:17,625 --> 00:15:19,125
[tense music playing]

288
00:15:19,126 --> 00:15:22,546
[Hikaru] Over-the-board chess is
where two players sit down at a table.

289
00:15:24,006 --> 00:15:25,466
You play with a timer or clock.

290
00:15:26,634 --> 00:15:28,009
[clock ticking]

291
00:15:28,010 --> 00:15:29,803
And you're playing face to face.

292
00:15:32,348 --> 00:15:36,060
Queen… to king 4.

293
00:15:38,020 --> 00:15:39,604
[Erik] Over the board is intimate.

294
00:15:39,605 --> 00:15:42,399
You hear the breathing
of the person across from you.

295
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,070
You can see their reaction
to the move that you make.

296
00:15:48,113 --> 00:15:52,368
And when you win, you can see the pain
in another person's eyes. Literally!

297
00:15:53,661 --> 00:15:54,954
[exclaiming]

298
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,455
[sobbing]

299
00:15:57,456 --> 00:15:59,374
[Hans] I think we can
make a clear distinction

300
00:15:59,375 --> 00:16:02,293
between online being this,
like, pick-up game,

301
00:16:02,294 --> 00:16:04,796
and over the board being the real deal.

302
00:16:04,797 --> 00:16:07,340
[Hikaru] For the top players,
the over-the-board rankings,

303
00:16:07,341 --> 00:16:10,593
it is basically the current gold standard.

304
00:16:10,594 --> 00:16:11,511
[music ends]

305
00:16:11,512 --> 00:16:14,013
[Hikaru] The rating system
in chess is quite straightforward.

306
00:16:14,014 --> 00:16:15,723
You start from a rating of zero,

307
00:16:15,724 --> 00:16:18,017
and it goes
up to World Championship level,

308
00:16:18,018 --> 00:16:21,605
which is around 2,800
or a little bit above that.

309
00:16:22,189 --> 00:16:25,401
[Hans] At that point, my rating was 2,466.

310
00:16:26,026 --> 00:16:29,071
Nothing special.
Plenty of people at my age had a rating.

311
00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:33,408
But my life's mission was
to become the best player in the world,

312
00:16:33,409 --> 00:16:35,034
and nothing was gonna stop me.

313
00:16:35,035 --> 00:16:37,037
[upbeat music playing]

314
00:16:38,872 --> 00:16:41,290
So I decided to go
to the over-the-board circuit

315
00:16:41,291 --> 00:16:42,793
while being a senior in high school.

316
00:16:43,961 --> 00:16:46,546
I gotta go all in,
play the best tournaments.

317
00:16:46,547 --> 00:16:47,548
I gotta go to Europe.

318
00:16:50,801 --> 00:16:55,179
I started in Spain.
I had three amazing tournaments.

319
00:16:55,180 --> 00:16:59,685
Gained a lot of rating.
I actually went from 2,488 to 2,525.

320
00:17:01,353 --> 00:17:03,605
And then, I went off to Italy.

321
00:17:04,773 --> 00:17:05,941
Increasing my rating.

322
00:17:08,193 --> 00:17:11,195
And then after that,
nonstop tournament schedule,

323
00:17:11,196 --> 00:17:13,866
{\an8}one month in Serbia,
back-to-back tournaments.

324
00:17:16,035 --> 00:17:19,829
Then for the month of March,
I played all these tournaments in Italy.

325
00:17:19,830 --> 00:17:23,332
- I actually did really badly there.
- [music distorts]

326
00:17:23,333 --> 00:17:26,045
I was stuck. I was plateauing.
The money was running out.

327
00:17:27,046 --> 00:17:29,172
But thankfully, I then went to Montenegro…

328
00:17:29,173 --> 00:17:30,423
[upbeat music resumes]

329
00:17:30,424 --> 00:17:34,594
…playing two tournaments there.
I absolutely dominated.

330
00:17:34,595 --> 00:17:37,473
Catapulting my rating up,
and with that confidence going forward,

331
00:17:38,682 --> 00:17:39,850
crushed every tournament.

332
00:17:42,811 --> 00:17:46,731
[Magnus] I guess I knew
that he was ambitious in general.

333
00:17:46,732 --> 00:17:48,191
He was stationed in Europe.

334
00:17:48,192 --> 00:17:51,278
He was playing tournaments
more or less every single day.

335
00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:55,074
Generally doing quite well,
gaining rating.

336
00:17:56,158 --> 00:17:59,118
I was an absolute maniac
and played every tournament I could.

337
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:00,996
I won the Philadelphia International.

338
00:18:03,165 --> 00:18:04,333
Won the World Open.

339
00:18:05,876 --> 00:18:07,544
{\an8}The US Junior Championship.

340
00:18:08,128 --> 00:18:10,589
I won the Capablanca Award in Cuba.

341
00:18:11,882 --> 00:18:14,718
{\an8}I won another tournament
right after that in Sweden.

342
00:18:15,677 --> 00:18:18,764
I broke the record for the amount
of games played in one year.

343
00:18:19,431 --> 00:18:23,184
I played 261 games in one year.

344
00:18:23,185 --> 00:18:27,605
And his ranking just keeps going up,
straight up to about 2,700,

345
00:18:27,606 --> 00:18:30,858
which is, essentially,
I would say, top 30, top 40 in the world.

346
00:18:30,859 --> 00:18:33,861
[Danny] He always had the talent,
and now he was turning it on.

347
00:18:33,862 --> 00:18:34,863
He flipped the switch.

348
00:18:35,739 --> 00:18:38,032
Hans Niemann must be someone
who's on trajectory

349
00:18:38,033 --> 00:18:41,120
to becoming one of the greatest players
of all time.

350
00:18:41,954 --> 00:18:43,163
[music fades out]

351
00:18:44,081 --> 00:18:47,750
My entire life,
I was conditioned and told and bullied.

352
00:18:47,751 --> 00:18:50,378
"You won't be a chess player.
You won't make money."

353
00:18:50,379 --> 00:18:51,922
"You have to go to college."

354
00:18:52,464 --> 00:18:55,759
So it's a very special moment
to sort of see your dreams materialize.

355
00:18:56,343 --> 00:18:58,846
So that was my entrance
into the elite of chess.

356
00:18:59,346 --> 00:19:02,598
- And when you're in the club, life's good.
- [upbeat synth music playing]

357
00:19:02,599 --> 00:19:04,351
[engine revving]

358
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,692
I got an email saying,
"We'd like to invite you to Miami."

359
00:19:12,276 --> 00:19:16,029
[woman] <i>We are
so ready for the FTX Crypto Cup.</i>

360
00:19:16,989 --> 00:19:21,785
The Miami FTX Crypto Cup was
an Esports chess event spectacular.

361
00:19:22,369 --> 00:19:24,745
They brought a bunch
of top players to Miami,

362
00:19:24,746 --> 00:19:26,331
put them up in a great hotel.

363
00:19:28,584 --> 00:19:30,585
We love chess. Yeah.

364
00:19:30,586 --> 00:19:34,589
[Danny] We're talking about people
who have competed in the NBA or the NFL

365
00:19:34,590 --> 00:19:35,715
of the game.

366
00:19:35,716 --> 00:19:37,885
It was one of
the most popular events in chess.

367
00:19:39,178 --> 00:19:41,721
And having proven himself
as a rising star,

368
00:19:41,722 --> 00:19:43,390
Hans Niemann got the invite.

369
00:19:43,891 --> 00:19:46,100
- No, it was big for me. It was big.
- [music ends]

370
00:19:46,101 --> 00:19:48,145
So that was the first moment where I

371
00:19:49,271 --> 00:19:51,565
realized, okay, this is real.

372
00:19:52,524 --> 00:19:54,610
And I'm with all the best players
in the world.

373
00:19:55,194 --> 00:19:57,529
Just two years ago,
I idolized all of them.

374
00:19:58,572 --> 00:20:01,449
I didn't even think
I'd be having conversations with them.

375
00:20:01,450 --> 00:20:03,284
[intriguing music playing]

376
00:20:03,285 --> 00:20:06,579
And then, I'm sitting with them
at dinner trash-talking.

377
00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:08,372
And that was a big moment to realize,

378
00:20:08,373 --> 00:20:10,834
"This is real. I'm gonna be
one of the best in the world."

379
00:20:11,668 --> 00:20:14,212
A lot of players
who eventually make it to the top,

380
00:20:14,213 --> 00:20:17,131
there's some defining game
or moment early in their careers.

381
00:20:17,132 --> 00:20:20,301
This great game, this masterpiece
they play that's talked about.

382
00:20:20,302 --> 00:20:23,931
You step back, like, "This is amazing.
They're destined for greatness."

383
00:20:24,556 --> 00:20:26,892
And Hans never had any of those moments.

384
00:20:27,809 --> 00:20:30,519
In order to be the best,
you have to beat the best.

385
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,146
He needed legitimacy.

386
00:20:32,147 --> 00:20:33,606
- Yeah.
- [laughing]

387
00:20:33,607 --> 00:20:36,735
And Hans, if you want to step
a little closer, please.

388
00:20:37,277 --> 00:20:40,989
I consider you a man
of quite the confidence.

389
00:20:41,490 --> 00:20:44,784
Is this just the first step
to absolutely crushing these guys

390
00:20:44,785 --> 00:20:46,285
for years and years to come?

391
00:20:46,286 --> 00:20:50,081
Yeah, I'd like to establish
psychological dominance over all of them.

392
00:20:50,082 --> 00:20:51,166
[crowd laughing]

393
00:20:52,626 --> 00:20:54,543
What did he expect from this tournament?

394
00:20:54,544 --> 00:20:58,923
'Cause he's a significant underdog
in every… in every single match,

395
00:20:58,924 --> 00:21:01,384
and if he thinks
that he can just come here

396
00:21:01,385 --> 00:21:06,265
and beat everybody, that seems…
that seems completely delusional.

397
00:21:07,266 --> 00:21:09,600
Magnus has been good for a very long time.

398
00:21:09,601 --> 00:21:13,104
That's because he's crushed the soul
of all these guys in this room.

399
00:21:13,105 --> 00:21:15,564
I intend to replace him.

400
00:21:15,565 --> 00:21:16,775
[crowd laughing]

401
00:21:17,776 --> 00:21:19,861
[interviewer] Is he even at your level?

402
00:21:20,779 --> 00:21:22,321
Of course not.

403
00:21:22,322 --> 00:21:27,076
It felt like he was trying
to sort of cosplay as a top chess player,

404
00:21:27,077 --> 00:21:27,994
to be honest.

405
00:21:27,995 --> 00:21:30,705
That just really threw me off a bit.

406
00:21:30,706 --> 00:21:32,873
- Thanks, guys.
- [crowd applauding]

407
00:21:32,874 --> 00:21:35,543
Hans starts off this tournament
very, very poorly.

408
00:21:35,544 --> 00:21:39,755
He's losing most of his matches,
and it's clearly not going his way.

409
00:21:39,756 --> 00:21:42,216
[man] Yesterday Hans Niemann lost
all three games,

410
00:21:42,217 --> 00:21:45,678
and it's going to be
an uphill battle for him.

411
00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:47,972
- [man] Looks hopeless, to be honest.
- [woman] It does.

412
00:21:47,973 --> 00:21:50,850
He could, like, barely last 15 moves.

413
00:21:50,851 --> 00:21:54,395
In certain areas, he was just
completely lacking understanding.

414
00:21:54,396 --> 00:21:58,399
[Danny] So to say that anybody thought
Hans Niemann was capable

415
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,653
of beating Magnus Carlsen
would be… would be laughable.

416
00:22:02,362 --> 00:22:04,155
Nobody was paying attention to this.

417
00:22:04,156 --> 00:22:06,073
[reporter] You're playing
the reigning champion.

418
00:22:06,074 --> 00:22:07,491
How do you prepare for that match?

419
00:22:07,492 --> 00:22:10,329
Rating champion? Oh, "reigning"?
Reigning champion.

420
00:22:11,330 --> 00:22:13,205
I had two nice smoothies.

421
00:22:13,206 --> 00:22:15,875
But there's nothing about Hans
that makes any sense. [laughing]

422
00:22:15,876 --> 00:22:18,628
Honestly, there's nothing about this
that makes any sense.

423
00:22:22,174 --> 00:22:27,387
I've been the best player
in the world now for 12 to 13 years.

424
00:22:28,013 --> 00:22:31,223
I've won a lot of chess games
and a lot of tournaments.

425
00:22:31,224 --> 00:22:34,978
I'm not insecure
about my ability to play chess.

426
00:22:35,687 --> 00:22:37,772
[Hikaru] His history is unparalleled.

427
00:22:37,773 --> 00:22:40,149
And I do get the sense
that he is very aware

428
00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:42,151
of sort of the aura he has.

429
00:22:42,152 --> 00:22:46,238
At some point, you think he's invincible
and he could never be beaten by anybody.

430
00:22:46,239 --> 00:22:48,825
It's a big psychological effect
that he has.

431
00:22:51,161 --> 00:22:56,416
I was the lowest-rated player there,
but I didn't have the fearful attitude.

432
00:22:56,917 --> 00:22:59,669
I thought, this is my chance,
let me take it.

433
00:23:01,630 --> 00:23:04,799
[commentator 1] Psychologically, Niemann
definitely doesn't lack for self-belief.

434
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,634
He just needs to back it up now.

435
00:23:06,635 --> 00:23:09,970
To start the game, Magnus Carlsen,
greatest chess player of all time,

436
00:23:09,971 --> 00:23:11,347
is in a great position.

437
00:23:11,348 --> 00:23:14,226
[commentator 2] This just looks
visually terrible for Hans.

438
00:23:14,726 --> 00:23:19,355
Magnus's pieces are so well positioned.
The rook, the queen, the bishop.

439
00:23:19,356 --> 00:23:22,108
[commentator 1] It'll be hard for Hans
to survive the next few moves.

440
00:23:22,109 --> 00:23:25,027
[Danny] What's interesting then
is that Hans jumped in

441
00:23:25,028 --> 00:23:29,282
and turns what looks like
a dysfunctional king-side into an attack.

442
00:23:29,866 --> 00:23:31,283
I like what he's been doing, Hans.

443
00:23:31,284 --> 00:23:32,952
[commentator 1] He's playing very well.

444
00:23:32,953 --> 00:23:36,580
If he keeps this up,
he's gonna really challenge Magnus.

445
00:23:36,581 --> 00:23:40,167
[Danny] His rooks come to life, and
Magnus's position completely falls apart.

446
00:23:40,168 --> 00:23:42,920
[commentator 1] Very impressive.
Everything connected for black now.

447
00:23:42,921 --> 00:23:46,882
[commentator 2] And that's not Magnus,
is it, to play like this?

448
00:23:46,883 --> 00:23:53,432
I had no chance in that game whatsoever,
which was really weird.

449
00:23:54,349 --> 00:23:59,562
Like, we're not on the same level.
Like, I'm a lot better than you are.

450
00:23:59,563 --> 00:24:01,814
There are moments
I could've went for a draw

451
00:24:01,815 --> 00:24:03,899
and showed respect to the great champion,

452
00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:07,903
but, unfortunately,
I didn't have that in mind.

453
00:24:07,904 --> 00:24:10,072
It was just a complete beatdown.

454
00:24:10,073 --> 00:24:13,159
[commentator 2] He's resigned.
Wow. What can I say?

455
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:14,493
[commentator 1] What a result.

456
00:24:14,494 --> 00:24:18,831
[woman] <i>Incredible start for Hans Niemann,
the lowest-rated player in the tournament.</i>

457
00:24:18,832 --> 00:24:21,292
<i>A win against world number one.</i>

458
00:24:21,293 --> 00:24:23,502
<i>The reaction from Hans in Miami.</i>

459
00:24:23,503 --> 00:24:26,672
Hans, yesterday
was a terrible day for you.

460
00:24:26,673 --> 00:24:30,217
Today you start out with a masterpiece.
How would you summarize it?

461
00:24:30,218 --> 00:24:31,595
Chess speaks for itself.

462
00:24:32,179 --> 00:24:35,055
Is it something special,
doing this against Magnus, Hans?

463
00:24:35,056 --> 00:24:37,058
[ominous music playing]

464
00:24:40,645 --> 00:24:42,146
[laughing]

465
00:24:42,147 --> 00:24:43,856
Chess speaks for itself.

466
00:24:43,857 --> 00:24:47,152
Is it something special,
doing this against Magnus, Hans?

467
00:24:47,819 --> 00:24:51,989
[Erik] The interview
after the game goes viral.

468
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:54,658
It's all over Twitter and Reddit.

469
00:24:54,659 --> 00:24:57,578
[Danny] Some people are like,
"You don't act that way."

470
00:24:57,579 --> 00:25:02,833
Other people are like, "Look at that!
Mic drop. Let's go, Hans Niemann!"

471
00:25:02,834 --> 00:25:04,668
Guess which side of the camp I sat on.

472
00:25:04,669 --> 00:25:06,671
[somber music playing]

473
00:25:07,964 --> 00:25:10,216
There are a lot of people
who don't like seeing

474
00:25:10,217 --> 00:25:11,675
Magnus win every tournament,

475
00:25:11,676 --> 00:25:14,512
and so it's like this underdog kid
who beats Magnus,

476
00:25:14,513 --> 00:25:16,722
and he's sort of rubbing it in his face.

477
00:25:16,723 --> 00:25:18,265
[laughing]

478
00:25:18,266 --> 00:25:22,436
I don't even get it. He wins a nice game,
and he's just, like, he's just angry.

479
00:25:22,437 --> 00:25:26,065
I don't know what's wrong with him.
It's funny, but it's also kinda weird.

480
00:25:26,066 --> 00:25:28,651
Like I said, when I saw the interview,
I literally was like,

481
00:25:28,652 --> 00:25:30,986
"This is what the chess world's
been waiting for,"

482
00:25:30,987 --> 00:25:33,657
and then everyone else is going like,

483
00:25:34,741 --> 00:25:38,036
maybe the chess speaks for itself because
Hans doesn't know what he was doing.

484
00:25:39,246 --> 00:25:41,164
He was getting help from somewhere else.

485
00:25:41,831 --> 00:25:43,833
[train horn blowing]

486
00:25:47,921 --> 00:25:50,215
[Hans] I was not groomed
to be a top chess player.

487
00:25:51,550 --> 00:25:55,678
Going to eight different schools
and being bullied at every school

488
00:25:55,679 --> 00:25:57,681
for being this sort of chess outcast.

489
00:26:00,141 --> 00:26:03,937
So, when I was 13, I'd take the train
from Connecticut to New York,

490
00:26:05,522 --> 00:26:07,731
and I'd play
against the hustlers for money.

491
00:26:07,732 --> 00:26:10,067
[man 1] What are you doing?
That's on the board, look!

492
00:26:10,068 --> 00:26:12,320
[man 2] This is
the famous Washington Square Park.

493
00:26:14,072 --> 00:26:16,365
This is where the chess tables are.

494
00:26:16,366 --> 00:26:19,160
A lot of top players in New York
come from this park.

495
00:26:19,828 --> 00:26:22,037
I have to beat this man like a dog.

496
00:26:22,038 --> 00:26:24,748
[man 2] And they'll take your money
any which way they can.

497
00:26:24,749 --> 00:26:28,753
Don't you just love it? Rack 'em up!

498
00:26:29,588 --> 00:26:32,423
[Hans] I didn't play
the sort of formal type of chess.

499
00:26:32,424 --> 00:26:33,425
Bye-bye.

500
00:26:34,593 --> 00:26:38,429
I had my own way of doing things
and have taken a very unique path.

501
00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:40,307
[man 3] Chess player, let's go!

502
00:26:41,266 --> 00:26:46,145
I know who you are,
and I saw what you did last summer.

503
00:26:46,146 --> 00:26:48,689
Hans is the latest. He's the latest, man.

504
00:26:48,690 --> 00:26:50,941
He won the World Junior Championship,

505
00:26:50,942 --> 00:26:53,278
but that didn't teach him
until he came here.

506
00:26:53,778 --> 00:26:55,779
And then he learned to play.

507
00:26:55,780 --> 00:26:57,448
[both laughing]

508
00:26:57,449 --> 00:27:00,951
[Bruce] The first thing you learn
about chess in the parks,

509
00:27:00,952 --> 00:27:04,331
{\an8}where you fight to the very end,
is that no one ever won by giving up.

510
00:27:05,373 --> 00:27:07,583
You can take control
even when you're losing.

511
00:27:07,584 --> 00:27:09,418
People don't realize that.

512
00:27:09,419 --> 00:27:13,088
But it <i>is</i> about control.
Taking command of the game.

513
00:27:13,089 --> 00:27:14,006
[man] Get him, Poe!

514
00:27:14,007 --> 00:27:17,134
I'm trying! This guy's like
one of the toughest on the planet.

515
00:27:17,135 --> 00:27:19,845
You have to be forged
through the fire, the suffering.

516
00:27:19,846 --> 00:27:22,765
Shit. This guy's
the Muhammad Ali of chess.

517
00:27:22,766 --> 00:27:24,433
[Hans] You got more experience than me.

518
00:27:24,434 --> 00:27:25,684
[Poe] Experience don't count!

519
00:27:25,685 --> 00:27:28,938
All along the line,
Hans was always the best for his age.

520
00:27:31,024 --> 00:27:36,403
And not only was he incredibly good,
but he was really fierce at the board.

521
00:27:36,404 --> 00:27:39,948
[Hans] Legal move! Get out of here, kid!

522
00:27:39,949 --> 00:27:42,159
- Get out of here.
- [laughing]

523
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,286
I wanted them to know
I wasn't afraid of them.

524
00:27:44,287 --> 00:27:47,082
When you're a kid
comfortable playing 56-year-olds,

525
00:27:47,832 --> 00:27:49,792
nothing intimidates you anymore.

526
00:27:49,793 --> 00:27:53,462
You know, when you see your opponent
clearly struggling,

527
00:27:53,463 --> 00:27:56,758
and you sort of know that you've got him,
it's just the best feeling.

528
00:27:57,258 --> 00:27:59,843
Because you know
that you're hot shit and they're not.

529
00:27:59,844 --> 00:28:02,513
[Poe] He's tough, though.
He's tough. He's tough.

530
00:28:02,514 --> 00:28:05,099
[Bruce] Hans can manifest this energy.

531
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:09,312
This intimidating force coming at you,
and that wears you down.

532
00:28:10,271 --> 00:28:11,689
[Poe] He's a monster.

533
00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:15,193
And the beautiful thing
about Hans being a monster,

534
00:28:15,735 --> 00:28:19,321
we in New York, he's <i>our</i> monster.

535
00:28:19,322 --> 00:28:21,324
[growling]

536
00:28:24,035 --> 00:28:29,040
The thing is that, like, I've overcome
so many things to get to where I am today

537
00:28:29,541 --> 00:28:32,584
that the greater the challenge,
I honestly find it exhilarating

538
00:28:32,585 --> 00:28:34,878
knowing that everyone wants me to fail.

539
00:28:34,879 --> 00:28:36,255
And it makes me happy.

540
00:28:36,256 --> 00:28:39,175
It only motivates me more.
It's only fuel to the fire.

541
00:28:39,676 --> 00:28:41,678
["Rule Britannia" playing]

542
00:28:42,637 --> 00:28:44,888
{\an8}[announcer] <i>This is it.
The grandaddy of them all.</i>

543
00:28:44,889 --> 00:28:47,976
{\an8}<i>Welcome, everybody,
to day one of the Sinquefield Cup.</i>

544
00:28:52,355 --> 00:28:54,648
{\an8}[Hikaru] Sinquefield Cup is
a very prestigious tournament,

545
00:28:54,649 --> 00:28:57,318
{\an8}which pits ten of the best players
in the world against each other.

546
00:29:01,156 --> 00:29:04,116
By far and away,
it is the most watched event

547
00:29:04,117 --> 00:29:05,577
in professional chess.

548
00:29:07,287 --> 00:29:08,747
[music fades out]

549
00:29:10,206 --> 00:29:12,708
When it was announced
Hans was in the Sinquefield Cup,

550
00:29:12,709 --> 00:29:13,959
there were a lot of rumblings.

551
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,047
A very young player
from New York, Hans Niemann.

552
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,340
[intriguing music playing]

553
00:29:20,341 --> 00:29:22,926
People felt that it was implausible
for this player

554
00:29:22,927 --> 00:29:24,428
to have suddenly gone up so fast.

555
00:29:24,429 --> 00:29:27,181
[Hans] I had gone, in a short period,

556
00:29:27,182 --> 00:29:30,267
from this high school student

557
00:29:30,268 --> 00:29:32,561
to on equal terms with the best players.

558
00:29:32,562 --> 00:29:36,231
Suddenly it's like this
awakening of all of my dreams,

559
00:29:36,232 --> 00:29:38,776
{\an8}my childhood dreams, coming to reality.

560
00:29:38,777 --> 00:29:42,946
{\an8}The tournament that's going on inside,
we're especially here to support Hans.

561
00:29:42,947 --> 00:29:47,827
{\an8}Got our fun little signs here, and, yeah,
just out here to show our support.

562
00:29:49,078 --> 00:29:52,206
There were a couple of girls
who showed up to the playing hall.

563
00:29:52,207 --> 00:29:54,291
They said they were
the Hans Niemann fan club.

564
00:29:54,292 --> 00:29:58,921
{\an8}I don't think he knows that we're here,
so I really hope he comes out and sees us.

565
00:29:58,922 --> 00:30:00,172
{\an8}We love him.

566
00:30:00,173 --> 00:30:05,386
I did not pay those girls to show up
as the Hans Niemann fan club. No.

567
00:30:05,970 --> 00:30:09,181
[Danny] The tension that was building
was already palpable.

568
00:30:09,182 --> 00:30:12,476
None of the top players trusted
who Hans Niemann was.

569
00:30:12,477 --> 00:30:14,061
[suspenseful string music playing]

570
00:30:14,062 --> 00:30:17,397
These guys have a group. It's a clique.

571
00:30:17,398 --> 00:30:19,316
And it's not just an elitism thing.

572
00:30:19,317 --> 00:30:22,736
It's that they've been there.
They've earned it. They've done it.

573
00:30:22,737 --> 00:30:24,905
And people are like,
"What are you doing here?"

574
00:30:24,906 --> 00:30:27,783
I was looking around, and I said,
"Okay, I think I can belong

575
00:30:27,784 --> 00:30:29,494
in this room of great chess players."

576
00:30:30,161 --> 00:30:33,539
[Danny] People were nervous about Hans
Niemann competing in over-the-board chess.

577
00:30:33,540 --> 00:30:36,667
They didn't know what
he was capable of in over-the-board chess.

578
00:30:36,668 --> 00:30:39,170
They were afraid. They were paranoid.

579
00:30:39,754 --> 00:30:42,256
[Hikaru] More and more players
are becoming suspicious.

580
00:30:42,257 --> 00:30:43,883
You're wondering, what is going on?

581
00:30:44,843 --> 00:30:47,887
[Danny] More than one player
considered withdrawing from the event.

582
00:30:48,388 --> 00:30:51,015
And I can only surmise
as to the reason why.

583
00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:52,558
[music ends]

584
00:30:52,559 --> 00:30:55,102
[Peter] <i>I do think
on the question of whether</i>

585
00:30:55,103 --> 00:30:58,063
<i>this will be a dominating performance
by one player…</i>

586
00:30:58,064 --> 00:31:01,233
- [Yasser] <i>The man on screen?
- …perhaps running away with it.</i>

587
00:31:01,234 --> 00:31:03,193
[Danny] Heading into the Sinquefield Cup,

588
00:31:03,194 --> 00:31:07,155
there was still no real doubt
as to who the heavy favorite was.

589
00:31:07,156 --> 00:31:08,407
[intriguing music playing]

590
00:31:08,408 --> 00:31:11,286
[Danny] We had Magnus Carlsen,
the greatest of all time.

591
00:31:12,996 --> 00:31:15,247
But then something surprising happens.

592
00:31:15,248 --> 00:31:19,751
Exciting chess has brought us
a surprise in the leadership.

593
00:31:19,752 --> 00:31:22,546
From the beginning,
I was just outplaying all of them.

594
00:31:22,547 --> 00:31:25,173
[Peter] <i>Extremely solid
performance by Hans.</i>

595
00:31:25,174 --> 00:31:27,009
- [Yasser] <i>How exciting, indeed.
- Absolutely.</i>

596
00:31:27,010 --> 00:31:28,802
[Hikaru] Hans got off
to a very good start.

597
00:31:28,803 --> 00:31:31,973
He drew the first game
against Levon Aronian, an American player.

598
00:31:34,183 --> 00:31:35,475
[Yasser] <i>Round two.</i>

599
00:31:35,476 --> 00:31:37,060
[Hikaru] He won a shocking game

600
00:31:37,061 --> 00:31:39,939
over the Azerbaijani player
Shakhriyar Mamedyarov.

601
00:31:41,024 --> 00:31:42,567
He blew him off the board.

602
00:31:43,151 --> 00:31:44,443
[Hans] You can be arrogant,

603
00:31:44,444 --> 00:31:47,155
you can be confident,
but these guys aren't better than me.

604
00:31:48,156 --> 00:31:50,575
Magnus was looking at my game.

605
00:31:51,284 --> 00:31:53,828
I think he was impressed,
to say the least.

606
00:31:54,954 --> 00:31:56,455
[music fades out]

607
00:31:56,456 --> 00:32:02,920
[Yasser] <i>We have headliners, and they're
going head-to-head right now, right here.</i>

608
00:32:02,921 --> 00:32:06,006
[Hans] It was probably the biggest
opportunity of my entire chess career.

609
00:32:06,007 --> 00:32:09,259
I remember being very nervous
about what opening he would play.

610
00:32:09,260 --> 00:32:11,428
- The opening's really important.
- [tense music playing]

611
00:32:11,429 --> 00:32:14,640
So I decided, you know,
let me just be in a good mental headspace,

612
00:32:14,641 --> 00:32:17,684
ready to fight
and to take every chance that I got.

613
00:32:17,685 --> 00:32:21,146
[Peter] <i>And there we have
our battle of our leaders, yeah,</i>

614
00:32:21,147 --> 00:32:23,815
<i>with Magnus starting
with one d4, no surprise there.</i>

615
00:32:23,816 --> 00:32:27,194
[Magnus] I think if you're in a situation
where you don't trust your opponent,

616
00:32:27,195 --> 00:32:30,657
you have
a huge psychological disadvantage.

617
00:32:31,491 --> 00:32:35,953
So I'm in a mindset of
I'm gonna try and surprise him

618
00:32:35,954 --> 00:32:37,287
in the opening a bit.

619
00:32:37,288 --> 00:32:39,706
And I pick kind of a rare line.

620
00:32:39,707 --> 00:32:42,876
[Yasser] <i>An unusual approach
by Magnus in the opening.</i>

621
00:32:42,877 --> 00:32:46,546
These types of move orders
are chosen to trick your opponent.

622
00:32:46,547 --> 00:32:49,925
Frankly, this type of approach
is Magnus Carlsen's specialty.

623
00:32:49,926 --> 00:32:52,094
It's a bit of a risky line.

624
00:32:52,095 --> 00:32:55,389
And he plays the exact best move.

625
00:32:55,390 --> 00:32:59,851
[Yasser] <i>And it looks like Hans
is reasonably well-prepared, even here.</i>

626
00:32:59,852 --> 00:33:03,355
It's clear that Hans,
despite this being an obscure opening,

627
00:33:03,356 --> 00:33:04,649
knows what he's doing.

628
00:33:05,733 --> 00:33:10,029
From the player that I'd known before,
I thought he was not that good.

629
00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:13,908
And I did not like the situation
at all at that point.

630
00:33:14,409 --> 00:33:15,868
[tense music continues]

631
00:33:16,577 --> 00:33:19,997
[Hans] And I kept applying pressure,
slowly and slowly.

632
00:33:19,998 --> 00:33:21,415
Eventually he collapsed.

633
00:33:21,416 --> 00:33:27,713
[Hikaru] That's probably as bad
a body posture I've seen on Magnus.

634
00:33:27,714 --> 00:33:30,132
[Peter] He seems rattled
by how this game is going.

635
00:33:30,133 --> 00:33:33,928
It was very surprising, the way…
He seemed to have no chances, honestly.

636
00:33:34,762 --> 00:33:37,806
[Magnus] It definitely felt
that I was playing somebody

637
00:33:37,807 --> 00:33:41,935
who didn't appear to be putting
a lot of effort into this game.

638
00:33:41,936 --> 00:33:44,563
It just seemed that,
"Yeah, I'm better than you."

639
00:33:44,564 --> 00:33:47,400
"I'm outplaying you. This is normal."

640
00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:51,278
I'm thinking, like,
this is back to Miami again.

641
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:53,906
Like, this guy is just fucking
with me at this point.

642
00:33:56,075 --> 00:33:59,746
[Hans] Sometimes I'd wonder,
was sacrificing my childhood worth it?

643
00:34:00,538 --> 00:34:02,539
Was it worth it to be bullied?

644
00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:04,458
Was it worth it to live alone?

645
00:34:04,459 --> 00:34:05,752
You have these thoughts.

646
00:34:06,252 --> 00:34:08,379
Those thoughts sort of disappeared.

647
00:34:09,047 --> 00:34:11,256
And I was just enjoying my time.

648
00:34:11,257 --> 00:34:13,801
Thinking about my next first-class flight.

649
00:34:15,511 --> 00:34:18,014
[Magnus] At this point, I'm really upset.

650
00:34:18,514 --> 00:34:19,973
I'm fuming.

651
00:34:19,974 --> 00:34:22,143
This just did not feel right.

652
00:34:22,977 --> 00:34:24,145
At all.

653
00:34:24,645 --> 00:34:26,772
And there we have it. Handshake.

654
00:34:26,773 --> 00:34:28,691
[Yasser] <i>Wow. What a result.</i>

655
00:34:29,192 --> 00:34:31,777
[Hans] I take pleasure in knowing

656
00:34:31,778 --> 00:34:36,532
that he was one of the best players
in the world for so long and I broke him.

657
00:34:39,660 --> 00:34:41,536
I think he was just so demoralized

658
00:34:41,537 --> 00:34:44,706
{\an8}because he's losing
to such an idiot like me, you know.

659
00:34:44,707 --> 00:34:47,709
{\an8}It must be embarrassing
for the world champion to lose to me.

660
00:34:47,710 --> 00:34:48,628
{\an8}I feel bad for him.

661
00:34:49,587 --> 00:34:51,797
So the thing that's strange
about this interview

662
00:34:51,798 --> 00:34:54,091
is his explanations
of some moves he played

663
00:34:54,092 --> 00:34:55,592
really just don't make sense.

664
00:34:55,593 --> 00:34:58,845
{\an8}I was actually very fortunate
that this opening came on the board.

665
00:34:58,846 --> 00:35:02,224
{\an8}- I looked at this today, and…
- [Alejandro] You guessed this opening?

666
00:35:02,225 --> 00:35:05,685
No, I didn't guess it, but some miracle,
I had checked this today.

667
00:35:05,686 --> 00:35:09,898
There's so many possible openings
in chess, we don't have time to name

668
00:35:09,899 --> 00:35:13,902
the, you know, thousands
of possible variations of chess.

669
00:35:13,903 --> 00:35:18,865
And so, to say that he had looked
at the one out of 10,000

670
00:35:18,866 --> 00:35:22,786
and been like, "Yeah, I'm gonna focus
on this for a minute before my match,"

671
00:35:22,787 --> 00:35:27,999
like, it just didn't make any sense
to anybody at all.

672
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,753
- But is it possible? Yes. I mean…
- Sure. One in 10,000 chance!

673
00:35:31,754 --> 00:35:32,712
Anomalies happen.

674
00:35:32,713 --> 00:35:35,841
[Hans] I have no idea why I would check
such a ridiculous thing.

675
00:35:35,842 --> 00:35:38,510
Such a ridiculous miracle.

676
00:35:38,511 --> 00:35:41,596
That's a good word
to describe what anomalies are.

677
00:35:41,597 --> 00:35:43,014
They are ridiculous miracles.

678
00:35:43,015 --> 00:35:47,394
- [Alejandro] That answers my question.
- That's okay, but it's only the beginning.

679
00:35:47,395 --> 00:35:50,021
[Alejandro] Hans, thank you
for joining us. Candid, as always.

680
00:35:50,022 --> 00:35:51,857
Congratulations on your performance.

681
00:35:51,858 --> 00:35:54,568
Definitely a big day for you,
beating the world champion.

682
00:35:54,569 --> 00:35:55,861
Thank you for joining us.

683
00:35:55,862 --> 00:35:59,990
Once I got back to my hotel room,
I had this almost euphoric moment.

684
00:35:59,991 --> 00:36:01,575
Like I had made it.

685
00:36:01,576 --> 00:36:05,287
And now, life's gonna be good.
I'm gonna be a great chess player.

686
00:36:05,288 --> 00:36:09,375
I'm gonna be one of the best in the world.
I went to bed feeling amazing.

687
00:36:12,253 --> 00:36:15,839
[Henrik] So, I watched the match
between Hans and Magnus

688
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,134
in the hotel in St. Louis.

689
00:36:19,302 --> 00:36:21,511
{\an8}I was just kind of a bit sorry for Magnus.

690
00:36:21,512 --> 00:36:25,808
{\an8}I knew he would be annoyed.
He didn't seem to play his best game.

691
00:36:27,602 --> 00:36:32,230
I didn't have any suspicions
about what had happened

692
00:36:32,231 --> 00:36:35,610
until I met Magnus
coming back from the playing hall.

693
00:36:37,486 --> 00:36:43,117
Magnus was kind of doing like this,
"What is this?"

694
00:36:44,076 --> 00:36:46,620
And I thought, "What?"
Then he explained basically

695
00:36:46,621 --> 00:36:50,582
that he had been highly suspicious
from the start of the game.

696
00:36:50,583 --> 00:36:55,879
This was not Hans playing.
He was playing some, some computer.

697
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,799
And I said, "What do you mean?"
"He was cheating."

698
00:37:01,469 --> 00:37:05,181
I felt that I was not playing a human.

699
00:37:05,848 --> 00:37:08,184
- [mystical music playing]
- [tinging]

700
00:37:10,811 --> 00:37:14,440
[Danny] Cheating has been happening
in chess for hundreds of years.

701
00:37:15,566 --> 00:37:17,485
It goes back to the Mechanical Turk.

702
00:37:19,862 --> 00:37:24,075
People were losing
to what seemed like an invisible force.

703
00:37:25,952 --> 00:37:30,497
But there was a human hidden
under the chess board, making the moves.

704
00:37:30,498 --> 00:37:32,291
This was a parlor trick.

705
00:37:34,126 --> 00:37:36,003
[intriguing music playing]

706
00:37:36,587 --> 00:37:38,421
[Danny] Cheating,
as we think about it now,

707
00:37:38,422 --> 00:37:44,011
is the act of accessing a chess computer
to gain an edge on an opponent.

708
00:37:45,638 --> 00:37:47,806
[Erik] Making a move,
seeing opponent move,

709
00:37:47,807 --> 00:37:51,726
looking at a computer, saying,
"Okay, next best move." Making the move.

710
00:37:51,727 --> 00:37:55,815
It's the culmination of human
and AI knowledge, all put together.

711
00:37:56,315 --> 00:37:57,857
With a chess computer,

712
00:37:57,858 --> 00:38:01,487
you would beat Magnus Carlsen
1,000 out of 1,000 games.

713
00:38:02,363 --> 00:38:04,198
And it's available anywhere.

714
00:38:04,824 --> 00:38:06,784
It's very, very easy to gain access.

715
00:38:08,661 --> 00:38:12,706
So, as far as online cheating goes,
you could just reach for your phone

716
00:38:12,707 --> 00:38:15,084
and put in the moves and go from there.

717
00:38:16,669 --> 00:38:19,421
But cheating over the board
is quite difficult,

718
00:38:19,422 --> 00:38:23,258
and the main reason for that is
there's a much higher barrier to entry.

719
00:38:23,259 --> 00:38:26,095
[Erik] In other sports,
you're cheating <i>before</i> the event.

720
00:38:27,013 --> 00:38:30,682
[commentator 1] <i>High fastball.
See you later!</i>

721
00:38:30,683 --> 00:38:33,601
{\an8}[commentator 2] <i>9.79!</i>

722
00:38:33,602 --> 00:38:37,982
But in chess, you have to be cheating
right then in the moment.

723
00:38:39,358 --> 00:38:44,238
[Magnus] If people could get help from
computers, they would just be unbeatable.

724
00:38:46,115 --> 00:38:49,035
I know that I was way in my own head,

725
00:38:49,618 --> 00:38:52,912
I recognized that then,
and I recognize that now,

726
00:38:52,913 --> 00:38:54,664
but that's the way it felt to me,

727
00:38:54,665 --> 00:38:57,792
both in Miami
and also in the Sinquefield Cup,

728
00:38:57,793 --> 00:39:02,423
that this was somebody
who had the ability to cheat.

729
00:39:03,382 --> 00:39:07,427
It was an unpleasant situation, but… yeah.

730
00:39:07,428 --> 00:39:08,470
[somber music playing]

731
00:39:08,471 --> 00:39:12,557
The emotional toll
of seeing your child suffer

732
00:39:12,558 --> 00:39:15,144
at, for instance,
the chess board is significant.

733
00:39:16,604 --> 00:39:20,483
It was clear that Hans was a character
that you can't really trust.

734
00:39:20,983 --> 00:39:24,528
He's a potential threat
to the chess world.

735
00:39:25,279 --> 00:39:28,907
So, if we really suspect
that something is going on,

736
00:39:28,908 --> 00:39:30,533
I would like clarity.

737
00:39:30,534 --> 00:39:32,286
One way or the other.

738
00:39:33,579 --> 00:39:34,746
[music reverberates]

739
00:39:34,747 --> 00:39:39,667
Magnus talked about going to Hans
and knocking on his door.

740
00:39:39,668 --> 00:39:41,212
"Tell me, what's going on?"

741
00:39:42,963 --> 00:39:47,218
Well, that probably won't work,
and it's a bit offensive also.

742
00:39:48,094 --> 00:39:51,889
So we need to talk to the people
that might have information about this.

743
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:55,810
And I said, "I had a meeting
with Danny Rensch this morning."

744
00:39:56,936 --> 00:39:59,354
"And I know he was gonna fly home,

745
00:39:59,355 --> 00:40:03,692
but I can try to ask him
if he has any idea about this."

746
00:40:04,193 --> 00:40:05,860
[Danny] It all happened very fast.

747
00:40:05,861 --> 00:40:09,697
When I landed, I landed
to text messages from Henrik Carlsen

748
00:40:09,698 --> 00:40:12,367
and a request to have a call
as soon as I could talk.

749
00:40:12,368 --> 00:40:16,162
And he said, "I know what you're gonna
ask me about."

750
00:40:16,163 --> 00:40:17,914
I thought, "Wow."

751
00:40:17,915 --> 00:40:21,584
[Danny] He was asking whether
Hans Niemann had ever been caught

752
00:40:21,585 --> 00:40:23,753
cheating on Chess.com.

753
00:40:23,754 --> 00:40:26,881
And for most people,
we punt on the answer,

754
00:40:26,882 --> 00:40:29,927
it's not your business,
and for some people, we tell the truth.

755
00:40:30,553 --> 00:40:33,304
Because it's just not
in our interest to create a scandal

756
00:40:33,305 --> 00:40:35,432
and we're not looking to defame anyone.

757
00:40:35,433 --> 00:40:38,519
But the reality is,
when people know, they know.

758
00:40:40,855 --> 00:40:42,857
[computer whirring]

759
00:40:44,316 --> 00:40:47,527
[Erik] When we found
the first cheater on Chess.com,

760
00:40:47,528 --> 00:40:50,656
we had a pretty big existential crisis.

761
00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:55,577
If we don't have the trust
of the players playing on our platform,

762
00:40:55,578 --> 00:40:57,954
like, online chess would be dead.

763
00:40:57,955 --> 00:40:59,080
[tense music playing]

764
00:40:59,081 --> 00:41:02,709
So, you start to look at the math,
and build cheat-detection algorithms

765
00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:08,841
to help us understand what was human play
and what was more-than-human play.

766
00:41:09,383 --> 00:41:11,050
[interviewer] Has there been an occasion

767
00:41:11,051 --> 00:41:13,219
where someone
is accused of cheating online,

768
00:41:13,220 --> 00:41:15,430
and just like…
you almost didn't believe it.

769
00:41:15,431 --> 00:41:17,932
You're like,
"I know this person. They're a friend."

770
00:41:17,933 --> 00:41:19,476
The Hans Niemann case.

771
00:41:19,477 --> 00:41:22,604
I was the top person pushing back.

772
00:41:22,605 --> 00:41:24,898
[gentle music playing]

773
00:41:24,899 --> 00:41:27,525
{\an8}[Hans] In the year 2020,
during the pandemic,

774
00:41:27,526 --> 00:41:30,236
{\an8}whispers started
amongst a couple of our staff members

775
00:41:30,237 --> 00:41:32,238
that they were convinced
Hans was cheating.

776
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:33,449
I didn't want to believe it.

777
00:41:34,366 --> 00:41:35,951
I'm injured, though.

778
00:41:36,535 --> 00:41:39,662
{\an8}[Hans] We had been putting a lot
of effort and resources and energy

779
00:41:39,663 --> 00:41:42,832
and, frankly, love
into the potential of Hans's career.

780
00:41:42,833 --> 00:41:44,292
[giggling]

781
00:41:44,293 --> 00:41:46,377
{\an8}[Danny] Unfortunately, when we peeled back
the onion,

782
00:41:46,378 --> 00:41:48,046
we saw that Hans had been cheating

783
00:41:48,047 --> 00:41:50,590
borderline since the first day
he joined Chess.com.

784
00:41:50,591 --> 00:41:52,051
{\an8}[shouting] Yes!

785
00:41:53,052 --> 00:41:56,012
{\an8}Fuck yes! Yes!

786
00:41:56,013 --> 00:41:58,264
{\an8}[Danny] We had to do what we had to do.

787
00:41:58,265 --> 00:42:01,267
{\an8}Talking to someone about the fact
we've caught them cheating

788
00:42:01,268 --> 00:42:03,770
is a little bit
of a well-rehearsed script for me,

789
00:42:03,771 --> 00:42:08,817
but… this call was unique
in that Hans immediately started denying.

790
00:42:10,152 --> 00:42:12,488
"No, what are you talking about?"
This and that.

791
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:17,534
And the moment I told him
that this was no longer up for debate,

792
00:42:17,535 --> 00:42:18,577
he burst into tears.

793
00:42:19,828 --> 00:42:21,829
The thing he was most worried about was,

794
00:42:21,830 --> 00:42:25,751
"If you guys shut me down and I disappear,
everyone's gonna know I cheated."

795
00:42:26,669 --> 00:42:29,672
Lucky for Hans,
I'm gonna help this kid figure this out.

796
00:42:30,881 --> 00:42:32,840
He's gonna self-close his account.

797
00:42:32,841 --> 00:42:35,927
He'll tell his fans he's doing it
'cause he wants to start fresh

798
00:42:35,928 --> 00:42:38,055
with a new username
that's just for streaming.

799
00:42:38,556 --> 00:42:42,433
And in doing that, he's gonna have
controlled the narrative to the community

800
00:42:42,434 --> 00:42:44,311
that he wasn't closed for cheating.

801
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:50,108
Honestly, I was surprised at the time
of how generous you were being.

802
00:42:50,109 --> 00:42:53,152
I wasn't looking for a scandal.
I wasn't looking for a scandal.

803
00:42:53,153 --> 00:42:58,492
I'm still in big-brother, mentor mode.
But that's when the call gets weird.

804
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,203
He started asking me specifics.

805
00:43:02,204 --> 00:43:05,040
Like, "What games exactly did I cheat in?"

806
00:43:06,417 --> 00:43:08,252
"How <i>does</i> the algorithm work?"

807
00:43:09,545 --> 00:43:11,754
"Do you think I have ever cheated
over the board?"

808
00:43:11,755 --> 00:43:16,634
It felt like, to me, that he was trying
to pinpoint how we caught him.

809
00:43:16,635 --> 00:43:19,888
And that part of the phone call
never left me.

810
00:43:20,723 --> 00:43:23,434
"Shit, we can never trust this kid again."

811
00:43:26,061 --> 00:43:29,897
So in those conversations
with Magnus and Henrik,

812
00:43:29,898 --> 00:43:31,566
during the Sinquefield Cup,

813
00:43:31,567 --> 00:43:34,695
I also thought that Hans
might have cheated over the board.

814
00:43:37,531 --> 00:43:41,492
For me, that was just like…
that was the confirmation that I needed.

815
00:43:41,493 --> 00:43:43,829
- This guy is cheating.
- [music ends]

816
00:43:45,122 --> 00:43:46,665
[dramatic stinger]

817
00:43:53,839 --> 00:43:54,840
[Hans] Why?

818
00:43:56,467 --> 00:43:58,427
Why is he not showing up to the game?

819
00:43:59,803 --> 00:44:00,971
It's unprecedented.

820
00:44:01,472 --> 00:44:05,725
This is the Sinquefield Cup, this is not
some random tournament that you ditch.

821
00:44:05,726 --> 00:44:08,646
You don't just not show up to the game.

822
00:44:09,146 --> 00:44:10,856
So I presumed that…

823
00:44:11,357 --> 00:44:14,568
He must have some reason to not want
to play the tournament anymore.

824
00:44:15,235 --> 00:44:16,903
[Yasser] And there's his opponent saying,

825
00:44:16,904 --> 00:44:19,864
"My gosh, I came to play
the world chess champion,

826
00:44:19,865 --> 00:44:21,949
and he's not here."

827
00:44:21,950 --> 00:44:25,496
Um, I'm told we have breaking news.

828
00:44:26,288 --> 00:44:29,540
There's a tweet
from world chess champion Magnus Carlsen.

829
00:44:29,541 --> 00:44:32,794
Alejandro, what was the tweet,
exactly, if you please?

830
00:44:32,795 --> 00:44:34,379
[Alejandro] "I've withdrawn."

831
00:44:34,380 --> 00:44:37,465
"I've always enjoyed playing
in the St Louis Chess club

832
00:44:37,466 --> 00:44:40,468
and hope to be back in the future."

833
00:44:40,469 --> 00:44:43,721
I prefer really not to speak.

834
00:44:43,722 --> 00:44:45,849
If I speak, I am in big trouble.

835
00:44:46,475 --> 00:44:49,144
In big trouble.
And I don't want to be in big trouble.

836
00:44:50,187 --> 00:44:52,022
Oh my gosh.

837
00:44:52,981 --> 00:44:57,026
It becomes very clear right away
what Magnus is saying with this tweet.

838
00:44:57,027 --> 00:44:59,278
There's really no doubt about it,

839
00:44:59,279 --> 00:45:02,115
in my mind, I would say
any top player's mind,

840
00:45:02,116 --> 00:45:05,952
especially in light of what we know
is being said behind the scenes.

841
00:45:05,953 --> 00:45:09,540
[Hans] It's obvious what it is.
It's a cheating accusation.

842
00:45:11,375 --> 00:45:12,876
I was in disbelief.

843
00:45:13,460 --> 00:45:15,045
Don't understand how you could…

844
00:45:16,255 --> 00:45:18,173
How you could even think
that would be possible.

845
00:45:23,470 --> 00:45:26,806
It's just disappointing
because you work your entire life,

846
00:45:26,807 --> 00:45:28,599
you beat the world champion,

847
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,394
and at the moment
you should be praised and celebrated,

848
00:45:31,395 --> 00:45:33,939
this person that you've looked up to
your whole life

849
00:45:35,149 --> 00:45:37,984
- then accuses you of cheating.
- [sinister music playing]

850
00:45:37,985 --> 00:45:41,988
[Hikaru] Sometimes I feel like Magnus
forgets how much power he has.

851
00:45:41,989 --> 00:45:44,867
And after this, all hell breaks loose.

852
00:45:45,659 --> 00:45:48,995
It's been absolute pandemonium
in the chess world.

853
00:45:48,996 --> 00:45:50,747
What's going on? Why did he withdraw?

854
00:45:50,748 --> 00:45:52,707
What am I even supposed to say?

855
00:45:52,708 --> 00:45:54,417
[Fabiano] There's a lot of rumors already,

856
00:45:54,418 --> 00:45:59,131
{\an8}but probably some people have
a decent idea of what he's alluding to.

857
00:46:00,090 --> 00:46:02,091
[Danny] He had no reason to be trusted,

858
00:46:02,092 --> 00:46:05,262
regardless of Magnus Carlsen
lighting a fire.

859
00:46:05,763 --> 00:46:09,475
[Erik] Everybody was coming to
the same conclusion that Hans had cheated.

860
00:46:10,142 --> 00:46:13,269
And he had somehow gotten a signal
from an earpiece

861
00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:16,148
or some other type
of communication device.

862
00:46:17,858 --> 00:46:21,652
Everybody was going back
and reviewing footage

863
00:46:21,653 --> 00:46:23,280
as to what could have happened.

864
00:46:23,781 --> 00:46:27,116
Did his jacket look
a little bulky in this area?

865
00:46:27,117 --> 00:46:30,036
How come he's…
his ankle is itchy all the time?

866
00:46:30,037 --> 00:46:34,207
{\an8}Protective gestures covering his neck,
that is important to notice.

867
00:46:34,208 --> 00:46:38,503
[Erik] Every single part of his mannerisms
got picked apart.

868
00:46:38,504 --> 00:46:40,755
[man] If he has a cavity in his tooth,

869
00:46:40,756 --> 00:46:42,548
could he take out the filling

870
00:46:42,549 --> 00:46:47,429
and input a small device that sends
very small electroshocks or something?

871
00:46:47,930 --> 00:46:51,516
What level of grandiose cheating
am I doing?

872
00:46:51,517 --> 00:46:55,687
[Erik] And in this discussion,
in one stream on Twitch,

873
00:46:56,313 --> 00:46:59,691
somebody in chat said…

874
00:47:01,318 --> 00:47:03,070
"Maybe it was anal beads."

875
00:47:04,238 --> 00:47:05,488
{\an8}That's probably a good one.

876
00:47:05,489 --> 00:47:07,949
{\an8}An anal bead
probably would beat the thing.

877
00:47:07,950 --> 00:47:12,454
{\an8}I'm ser… the engine… I… It would probably…

878
00:47:12,955 --> 00:47:13,996
{\an8}[stammering]

879
00:47:13,997 --> 00:47:17,167
{\an8}I don't know. I really don't know.
Like, think about it. I don't know.

880
00:47:18,126 --> 00:47:20,628
Talk about something
getting out of control

881
00:47:20,629 --> 00:47:22,964
faster than anybody knew what was coming.

882
00:47:22,965 --> 00:47:27,718
[Colbert] The chess world has been rocked
by rumors of anal beads.

883
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:28,678
[audience laughing]

884
00:47:28,679 --> 00:47:30,304
They call it "castling."

885
00:47:30,305 --> 00:47:31,764
[audience laughs]

886
00:47:31,765 --> 00:47:35,560
It involved a vibrating sex toy
in his rear quarters.

887
00:47:35,561 --> 00:47:39,981
Dude! He's using anal beads Morse code!

888
00:47:39,982 --> 00:47:43,317
I mean, the theory is that basically
someone had some anal beads.

889
00:47:43,318 --> 00:47:45,278
And I'm obviously… I'm no expert at it,

890
00:47:45,279 --> 00:47:48,364
but I think it's you get
some sort of signal from the beads.

891
00:47:48,365 --> 00:47:49,907
It sort of became the truth.

892
00:47:49,908 --> 00:47:52,285
Suddenly, it became
this legitimate theory.

893
00:47:52,286 --> 00:47:56,080
{\an8}…player was able to communicate
by flexing his anus,

894
00:47:56,081 --> 00:47:58,416
{\an8}which apparently communicated
to a computer.

895
00:47:58,417 --> 00:48:00,418
{\an8}I mean, this is extraordinary stuff.

896
00:48:00,419 --> 00:48:02,713
[Erik] People on Twitter
started talking about it,

897
00:48:03,797 --> 00:48:07,049
and then my own children said,

898
00:48:07,050 --> 00:48:13,598
"Did you see that Elon Musk retweeted
about wireless anal beads?"

899
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:16,058
{\an8}Sending the chess world into chaos.

900
00:48:16,059 --> 00:48:19,062
{\an8}One buzz means a bishop,
two buzzes means a knight.

901
00:48:19,688 --> 00:48:23,024
[Hans] And it sort of exploded.
Joe Rogan was talking about it.

902
00:48:23,025 --> 00:48:26,736
"Chess grandmaster denies cheating
by using anal beads."

903
00:48:26,737 --> 00:48:30,407
{\an8}Yeah, I mean, the thing is, I like to win.

904
00:48:31,074 --> 00:48:32,366
{\an8}[both laughing]

905
00:48:32,367 --> 00:48:34,869
{\an8}But do I like it that much?

906
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:37,788
It was, like, mainstream news. Front page.

907
00:48:37,789 --> 00:48:41,000
I get why someone would use
vibrating anal beads to cheat.

908
00:48:41,001 --> 00:48:44,212
Because even if you lose,
you still kind of win, you know?

909
00:48:45,088 --> 00:48:48,090
When I was offered a million dollars
to play chess naked,

910
00:48:48,091 --> 00:48:51,218
people were telling me
to take Adam & Eve sponsorships.

911
00:48:51,219 --> 00:48:52,554
[scoffs] "No, thank you."

912
00:48:53,472 --> 00:48:58,184
I do think the anal implant
is a genuine concern.

913
00:48:58,185 --> 00:49:02,146
We had our COVID bump,
we had our <i>Queen's Gambit</i> bump…

914
00:49:02,147 --> 00:49:05,816
- The beads bump was real.
- The beads bump.

915
00:49:05,817 --> 00:49:08,319
Anal beads have been super good to us.

916
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,154
- Can I just say--
- Don't use that!

917
00:49:10,155 --> 00:49:12,157
[both laughing]

918
00:49:17,079 --> 00:49:19,539
They enjoyed it. They took pleasure in it.

919
00:49:20,707 --> 00:49:23,168
And it was sad
to see my life's work just, like,

920
00:49:23,794 --> 00:49:25,712
burn in front of my eyes.

921
00:49:26,546 --> 00:49:28,548
[somber music playing]

922
00:49:30,592 --> 00:49:33,887
Yeah, I think that people,
they might laugh about it…

923
00:49:36,139 --> 00:49:38,557
but there's actually
a very sad story behind it.

924
00:49:38,558 --> 00:49:41,102
[Noah] <i>…even if you lose,
you still kind of win, you know?</i>

925
00:49:41,103 --> 00:49:42,728
[audience laughing]

926
00:49:42,729 --> 00:49:44,814
[Colbert] <i>Knight to king seven!</i>

927
00:49:44,815 --> 00:49:46,817
[audience laughing]

928
00:49:49,611 --> 00:49:53,572
Yesterday I probably had to explain
that I didn't use anal beads

929
00:49:53,573 --> 00:49:55,866
about five different times
to five different people.

930
00:49:55,867 --> 00:49:58,828
That's what my life
and all my accomplishments

931
00:49:58,829 --> 00:50:02,541
and all my work has been boiled down
to fucking anal beads.

932
00:50:03,125 --> 00:50:06,002
[Peter] <i>Players arriving for the game.</i>

933
00:50:06,003 --> 00:50:10,256
<i>Exactly, as the players get checked
with all the electronic gizmos</i>

934
00:50:10,257 --> 00:50:12,299
<i>that we can possibly muster.</i>

935
00:50:12,300 --> 00:50:14,010
[woman] <i>We can see Hans Niemann already.</i>

936
00:50:14,011 --> 00:50:15,636
<i>He arrived to the playing venue,</i>

937
00:50:15,637 --> 00:50:19,432
<i>and he's carefully checked
by the chief arbiter of the event…</i>

938
00:50:19,433 --> 00:50:21,976
[Hans] Of course, they had
to make a mockery of me.

939
00:50:21,977 --> 00:50:23,561
They were trying to humiliate me.

940
00:50:23,562 --> 00:50:25,564
[somber music continues]

941
00:50:26,732 --> 00:50:31,819
[Yasser] <i>But as we saw,
he got delayed by the security at check.</i>

942
00:50:31,820 --> 00:50:34,113
<i>That's a very serious wanding.</i>

943
00:50:34,114 --> 00:50:37,700
[Hans] I felt like everywhere I walked
in this hotel, someone was watching me.

944
00:50:37,701 --> 00:50:40,995
I told myself I had to fight,
but I was not in the mental state

945
00:50:40,996 --> 00:50:42,788
to play chess, unfortunately.

946
00:50:42,789 --> 00:50:45,916
They played kind of
in a very normal fashion

947
00:50:45,917 --> 00:50:49,920
up until move nine,
and then Hans went for a setup

948
00:50:49,921 --> 00:50:54,216
which I don't believe
I've seen before at all.

949
00:50:54,217 --> 00:50:57,219
Every day I'd finish my game
and see all the news,

950
00:50:57,220 --> 00:51:00,098
the new articles, and I couldn't focus.

951
00:51:01,266 --> 00:51:03,350
- Whoa.
- Whoa. Yeah.

952
00:51:03,351 --> 00:51:05,520
[man] Everything I know about chess

953
00:51:07,481 --> 00:51:09,441
indicates this is a terrible move.

954
00:51:10,067 --> 00:51:11,192
[Hans] It was just my life.

955
00:51:11,193 --> 00:51:13,445
I just knew I was gonna be fucked
for a while.

956
00:51:14,946 --> 00:51:19,492
[Peter] Since this whole thing,
controversy of the last few days,

957
00:51:19,493 --> 00:51:20,910
it's been impossible for him.

958
00:51:20,911 --> 00:51:22,286
[Yasser] It's a wonder he held…

959
00:51:22,287 --> 00:51:25,832
He held on for so long
before it started coming unglued.

960
00:51:26,374 --> 00:51:29,543
[Hans] There was a point where
I was looking in the mirror, and I'm like,

961
00:51:29,544 --> 00:51:31,378
"What am I gonna do?"

962
00:51:31,379 --> 00:51:36,675
[Yasser] And at last, we have Hans Niemann
in studio with Alejandro.

963
00:51:36,676 --> 00:51:39,220
Hans, we gotta speak
about the elephant in the room.

964
00:51:39,221 --> 00:51:41,263
You've asked to have some words.

965
00:51:41,264 --> 00:51:43,724
Before the interview, I told him.

966
00:51:43,725 --> 00:51:46,894
I told the interviewer, "I want you
to let me speak uninterrupted."

967
00:51:46,895 --> 00:51:50,940
And in that interview,
I let everything out to public.

968
00:51:50,941 --> 00:51:53,567
Okay, so this is what happened,
when I was 16 years old,

969
00:51:53,568 --> 00:51:57,321
during my streaming career,
in an absolutely ridiculous mistake,

970
00:51:57,322 --> 00:51:59,990
I wanted to get higher rated
to play stronger players,

971
00:51:59,991 --> 00:52:02,701
so I cheated in random games on Chess.com.

972
00:52:02,702 --> 00:52:04,995
Now, I was confronted, I confessed,

973
00:52:04,996 --> 00:52:09,041
and this is the single biggest mistake
of my life, and I am completely ashamed,

974
00:52:09,042 --> 00:52:13,212
and I am telling the world because
I do not want any misrepresentation,

975
00:52:13,213 --> 00:52:14,714
and I do not want rumors.

976
00:52:15,465 --> 00:52:18,634
{\an8}If you were to ask me
how many games I cheated in online

977
00:52:18,635 --> 00:52:20,219
when I'm 12 or 13…

978
00:52:20,220 --> 00:52:21,887
Oh my God, okay.

979
00:52:21,888 --> 00:52:23,764
I think it was nine games.

980
00:52:23,765 --> 00:52:24,975
So it's one tournament.

981
00:52:25,809 --> 00:52:27,310
Around the age of 16…

982
00:52:29,229 --> 00:52:32,691
Maybe… 20 to 30.

983
00:52:33,191 --> 00:52:34,484
Maybe a little mo… I don't…

984
00:52:35,777 --> 00:52:38,530
{\an8}I was a complex person who made mistakes.

985
00:52:40,031 --> 00:52:41,824
You make mistakes as a kid.

986
00:52:41,825 --> 00:52:44,201
Doesn't mean
that through every single thing

987
00:52:44,202 --> 00:52:47,747
that you do for the rest of your life
should be discredited.

988
00:52:48,582 --> 00:52:50,749
[Danny] He truly is
just a Jekyll-and-Hyde human being.

989
00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:53,587
An immense talent with a ton of issues.

990
00:52:54,796 --> 00:52:57,339
He admitted to just enough
to garner sympathy,

991
00:52:57,340 --> 00:53:00,092
ensuring that anything
we would say after that

992
00:53:00,093 --> 00:53:02,428
would make us look like the big bad guys.

993
00:53:02,429 --> 00:53:04,014
It was exactly the right play.

994
00:53:05,307 --> 00:53:06,682
[Hans] Then after the game,

995
00:53:06,683 --> 00:53:09,519
I went to go
on Chess.com to log into my account.

996
00:53:10,729 --> 00:53:12,146
Password wasn't working.

997
00:53:12,147 --> 00:53:15,024
Because of this game against Magnus,
because of what he said,

998
00:53:15,025 --> 00:53:18,277
they have decided to completely remove me
from their website.

999
00:53:18,278 --> 00:53:20,196
- Did they give a reasoning?
- No reason.

1000
00:53:20,197 --> 00:53:22,698
That was a permanent ban from Chess.com,

1001
00:53:22,699 --> 00:53:25,784
and they removed my invitation
from the Global Chess Championship

1002
00:53:25,785 --> 00:53:27,996
with a first prize of 200,000 dollars.

1003
00:53:28,663 --> 00:53:29,789
It was all…

1004
00:53:31,499 --> 00:53:32,667
very well-timed.

1005
00:53:34,127 --> 00:53:36,837
I'm like, you can be mad
that I'm unfair to you now.

1006
00:53:36,838 --> 00:53:38,923
I was probably too fair to you before.

1007
00:53:38,924 --> 00:53:42,052
You lied and you cheated multiple times.

1008
00:53:42,636 --> 00:53:46,222
The truth is,
Magnus Carlsen's actions were the catalyst

1009
00:53:46,223 --> 00:53:49,683
to a pot that was much closer
to boiling than people know.

1010
00:53:49,684 --> 00:53:53,479
I didn't know what I was dealing with.
I acted and removed Hans Niemann

1011
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,732
because I could no longer punt
or kick the can down the road

1012
00:53:56,733 --> 00:53:59,944
on the fact that I didn't know
whether Hans was cheating again.

1013
00:53:59,945 --> 00:54:01,738
That's the reason we removed him.

1014
00:54:02,447 --> 00:54:07,368
Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to be honest
and speak the truth about all my enemies.

1015
00:54:07,369 --> 00:54:08,744
[Alejandro] Welcome, everyone,

1016
00:54:08,745 --> 00:54:12,081
to the closing ceremony
of this year's Sinquefield Cup.

1017
00:54:12,082 --> 00:54:14,124
- [sinister music playing]
- Hello, Hans.

1018
00:54:14,125 --> 00:54:15,334
[chuckles awkwardly]

1019
00:54:15,335 --> 00:54:18,337
[Hans] I was happy the tournament
was over because I couldn't handle it.

1020
00:54:18,338 --> 00:54:19,422
…be here with everyone.

1021
00:54:20,257 --> 00:54:23,677
Why was I banned at the exact same time
that Magnus accused me of cheating?

1022
00:54:24,678 --> 00:54:26,429
It's not a fucking coincidence.

1023
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,811
It's all connected.

1024
00:54:34,020 --> 00:54:36,021
[no audible dialogue]

1025
00:54:36,022 --> 00:54:38,315
[Hans] They banned me
because they're in the process

1026
00:54:38,316 --> 00:54:41,319
of finalizing the most important merger
of chess history.

1027
00:54:41,945 --> 00:54:47,908
A merger that will give them complete,
untouchable power over the chess world.

1028
00:54:47,909 --> 00:54:51,578
You know, if Magnus wants
to come and party, he can or not.

1029
00:54:51,579 --> 00:54:53,789
People would fucking come to this.

1030
00:54:53,790 --> 00:54:55,875
They're buying Magnus Carlsen.

1031
00:55:00,130 --> 00:55:02,089
[music fades out]

1032
00:55:02,090 --> 00:55:03,925
{\an8}[app splash sound playing]

1033
00:55:05,343 --> 00:55:08,847
{\an8}[Erik] Play Magnus Group was a group
of 13 companies.

1034
00:55:09,556 --> 00:55:12,099
They were one of our main rivals

1035
00:55:12,100 --> 00:55:16,271
and kept Magnus Carlsen
from participating on Chess.com.

1036
00:55:16,938 --> 00:55:21,358
{\an8}[Danny] Not having Magnus Carlsen
on Chess.com was like the NBA

1037
00:55:21,359 --> 00:55:24,904
but LeBron James was competing
in a separate basketball league.

1038
00:55:26,323 --> 00:55:30,744
[Erik] And so we eventually made an offer
to buy them out.

1039
00:55:31,244 --> 00:55:33,747
You know, paid roughly 80 million dollars.

1040
00:55:37,208 --> 00:55:39,084
The timing could not have been worse.

1041
00:55:39,085 --> 00:55:43,047
If someone writes a story, it's like,
these pieces that randomly fit together,

1042
00:55:43,048 --> 00:55:46,925
it almost looks like this great conspiracy
where this happened, that happened.

1043
00:55:46,926 --> 00:55:48,552
It was all part of the grand plan.

1044
00:55:48,553 --> 00:55:53,058
I'm just a little speck, a little ant
that they decided to step on and destroy.

1045
00:55:53,683 --> 00:55:55,726
[Danny] There's no denying
there was pressure

1046
00:55:55,727 --> 00:55:58,104
to remove Hans during the Sinquefield Cup.

1047
00:55:59,356 --> 00:56:02,649
But I stand by that we did not remove
Hans Niemann because of pressure.

1048
00:56:02,650 --> 00:56:04,736
[Hans] Of course it's fucking coordinated.

1049
00:56:05,236 --> 00:56:07,321
They have to pander
to their business partner Magnus.

1050
00:56:07,322 --> 00:56:09,865
You know, they can't upset him too much,

1051
00:56:09,866 --> 00:56:13,369
or otherwise he'll throw another tantrum,
and when a baby starts crying,

1052
00:56:13,370 --> 00:56:15,538
you have to give them something
to shut them up.

1053
00:56:16,331 --> 00:56:19,541
You think Magnus's manager isn't
on the phone with Danny Rensch?

1054
00:56:19,542 --> 00:56:23,880
"You know, merger this, merger that."
And, "You know Hans Niemann? Yeah."

1055
00:56:24,881 --> 00:56:30,553
I don't know how the Niemann case
would impact that one way or the other.

1056
00:56:31,054 --> 00:56:34,556
It was just that
we were future team members

1057
00:56:34,557 --> 00:56:39,270
that wanted, uh,
to help each other, basically.

1058
00:56:40,230 --> 00:56:43,107
I understood that I put myself

1059
00:56:43,108 --> 00:56:45,484
in the crosshairs
of some very powerful people.

1060
00:56:45,485 --> 00:56:47,487
[tense music playing]

1061
00:56:54,369 --> 00:56:58,664
[Erik] Henrik and Magnus wanted to know

1062
00:56:58,665 --> 00:57:01,792
if Chess.com's anti-cheat technology

1063
00:57:01,793 --> 00:57:04,336
could be used to investigate

1064
00:57:04,337 --> 00:57:09,634
if Hans had cheated
in any over-the-board games.

1065
00:57:10,593 --> 00:57:12,886
Whether it was on his meteoric rise

1066
00:57:12,887 --> 00:57:16,932
or during the Sinquefield Cup,
they were asking us, like, can you do it?

1067
00:57:16,933 --> 00:57:20,478
We were just looking
for objective information, basically.

1068
00:57:21,062 --> 00:57:23,064
[Erik] And our response was like…

1069
00:57:23,815 --> 00:57:24,899
[music ends]

1070
00:57:25,942 --> 00:57:27,484
- We'll take a look.
- We'll try.

1071
00:57:27,485 --> 00:57:28,861
- We'll try.
- We'll try.

1072
00:57:28,862 --> 00:57:30,989
We're gonna find out. Right now.

1073
00:57:31,948 --> 00:57:33,867
[Henrik] Danny convinced me that,

1074
00:57:34,492 --> 00:57:38,203
"Our algorithm is good
at detecting cheating over the board."

1075
00:57:38,204 --> 00:57:41,332
And I believed that, uh, absolutely.

1076
00:57:41,958 --> 00:57:44,751
[Danny] Chess.com has
the best cheat detection.

1077
00:57:44,752 --> 00:57:45,920
Period.

1078
00:57:46,463 --> 00:57:48,505
There's no reason to dance around that.

1079
00:57:48,506 --> 00:57:52,092
Hans Niemann said it himself.
It's not even close.

1080
00:57:52,093 --> 00:57:53,552
[intriguing music playing]

1081
00:57:53,553 --> 00:57:57,097
[Erik] We have
a huge anti-cheat department.

1082
00:57:57,098 --> 00:57:59,391
We put the most people on it,

1083
00:57:59,392 --> 00:58:02,102
the most amount of money
and resources into it.

1084
00:58:02,103 --> 00:58:05,981
With the biggest server farms
that are crunching the numbers.

1085
00:58:05,982 --> 00:58:08,525
We have all the data, all the algorithms.

1086
00:58:08,526 --> 00:58:10,402
Like, let's go. I want to find this.

1087
00:58:10,403 --> 00:58:13,071
I'm gonna launch
the world's greatest investigation

1088
00:58:13,072 --> 00:58:18,076
to find out how this little cheating kid
gamed the system and beat the champion.

1089
00:58:18,077 --> 00:58:20,330
I'm gonna solve this mystery.

1090
00:58:22,707 --> 00:58:25,834
So many people came out of the woodwork

1091
00:58:25,835 --> 00:58:29,630
to provide Chess.com
with evidence that Hans had cheated.

1092
00:58:29,631 --> 00:58:31,882
I was running down every single story.

1093
00:58:31,883 --> 00:58:34,843
I'm gonna look at every single game
he's ever played.

1094
00:58:34,844 --> 00:58:39,932
We did a very thorough job
investigating all of Hans's games online.

1095
00:58:39,933 --> 00:58:44,228
[Danny] It was eye-opening 'cause he had
cheated way more than even we thought.

1096
00:58:44,229 --> 00:58:46,564
The online cheating was rampant.

1097
00:58:47,232 --> 00:58:50,735
He had cheated
in well over 100 online games.

1098
00:58:54,030 --> 00:58:56,991
I was like, there's so much smoke here,
there has to be fire.

1099
00:58:59,869 --> 00:59:03,580
And I thought the truth was
that Hans Niemann cheated over the board

1100
00:59:03,581 --> 00:59:05,166
at the 2022 Sinquefield Cup.

1101
00:59:07,460 --> 00:59:10,838
I thought that that was going to be
the end of this story.

1102
00:59:16,719 --> 00:59:17,803
[music fades out]

1103
00:59:17,804 --> 00:59:20,055
{\an8}[news anchor] A development
in the cheating scandal

1104
00:59:20,056 --> 00:59:21,723
that's rocked the world of chess.

1105
00:59:21,724 --> 00:59:24,434
{\an8}A 72-page investigation from Chess.com

1106
00:59:24,435 --> 00:59:28,146
{\an8}found no evidence that Niemann
had cheated in his game against Carlsen

1107
00:59:28,147 --> 00:59:31,066
{\an8}or in any over-the-board games.

1108
00:59:31,067 --> 00:59:36,114
There's nothing in our investigation
to raise any red flags regarding his…

1109
00:59:38,074 --> 00:59:42,035
That's a crazy sentence to read right now.

1110
00:59:42,036 --> 00:59:47,291
Everybody wanted this to be true.
Everyone wanted this to be true.

1111
00:59:47,292 --> 00:59:52,004
And, like, I felt like I was in the chair
ultimately at the end,

1112
00:59:52,005 --> 00:59:55,215
saying, "Sorry, everyone, like,

1113
00:59:55,216 --> 00:59:59,886
this isn't what is being shown
in the data."

1114
00:59:59,887 --> 01:00:01,722
I was arguing with Erik,

1115
01:00:01,723 --> 01:00:04,975
"What do you mean,
the data isn't saying that he's cheating?"

1116
01:00:04,976 --> 01:00:10,480
As time went on, every theory,
every accusation fell apart.

1117
01:00:10,481 --> 01:00:12,691
The over-the-board evidence wasn't there.

1118
01:00:12,692 --> 01:00:15,652
I thought that we were gonna,
like, set the world free

1119
01:00:15,653 --> 01:00:18,030
on the fact that we solved
this incredible mystery.

1120
01:00:18,031 --> 01:00:21,366
And in fact, in the end,
it looked like we fucked up.

1121
01:00:21,367 --> 01:00:24,411
Of course they wanted to find
some smoking gun or some proof like,

1122
01:00:24,412 --> 01:00:25,830
but it didn't exist.

1123
01:00:26,331 --> 01:00:28,790
So it just, unfortunately for them,
I'm innocent.

1124
01:00:28,791 --> 01:00:30,501
I always have been innocent.

1125
01:00:31,002 --> 01:00:33,003
[Danny] We stood before Magnus Carlsen,

1126
01:00:33,004 --> 01:00:35,714
this brand-new working marriage
of companies together

1127
01:00:35,715 --> 01:00:39,552
and said what they didn't want to hear,
which is that Hans Niemann was innocent.

1128
01:00:40,178 --> 01:00:42,346
That was some of the hardest shit
we had to do.

1129
01:00:42,347 --> 01:00:44,140
And it's the stuff people don't know.

1130
01:00:45,016 --> 01:00:47,351
[Magnus] This is how they operate.

1131
01:00:47,352 --> 01:00:48,644
They talk a lot.

1132
01:00:48,645 --> 01:00:54,399
I've had to tell, especially Danny,
a few times, like, can you just use

1133
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:57,319
a bit fewer words
to say what you want to say?

1134
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:58,738
I don't want all the bullshit.

1135
01:00:59,489 --> 01:01:01,199
They didn't have the smoking gun.

1136
01:01:02,367 --> 01:01:04,951
I felt pretty bad.

1137
01:01:04,952 --> 01:01:08,372
I felt that… I'd sort of been gaslit a bit

1138
01:01:08,373 --> 01:01:12,209
by Danny and Chess.com
into thinking that they had evidence

1139
01:01:12,210 --> 01:01:14,961
which they really didn't.

1140
01:01:14,962 --> 01:01:19,509
That's the sort of… the ace that I felt
that I had all the time.

1141
01:01:20,093 --> 01:01:25,013
In retrospect, maybe Chess.com
was so concerned

1142
01:01:25,014 --> 01:01:26,848
about the relationship to Magnus,

1143
01:01:26,849 --> 01:01:30,435
they might have promised
a little bit more than they could deliver.

1144
01:01:30,436 --> 01:01:34,147
It just didn't… just didn't happen.

1145
01:01:34,148 --> 01:01:37,901
So that left me
in a bit of a strange situation.

1146
01:01:37,902 --> 01:01:39,362
What to do now?

1147
01:01:40,947 --> 01:01:43,199
- [sinister music playing]
- I don't mean to be, you know,

1148
01:01:43,950 --> 01:01:47,953
zealous here,
but everyone's day of judgment comes.

1149
01:01:47,954 --> 01:01:51,206
The teenage chess grandmaster
accused of cheating last month,

1150
01:01:51,207 --> 01:01:54,167
now suing his accusers
for 100 million dollars.

1151
01:01:54,168 --> 01:01:57,672
That's according to a lawsuit
he filed in federal court yesterday.

1152
01:01:58,172 --> 01:02:02,509
We got the news that he'd filed a lawsuit,

1153
01:02:02,510 --> 01:02:05,345
suing, you know, everybody and their dog.

1154
01:02:05,346 --> 01:02:08,807
[news anchor] The filing reads, in part,
"Enraged that the young Niemann

1155
01:02:08,808 --> 01:02:11,226
dared to disrespect the 'King of Chess,'

1156
01:02:11,227 --> 01:02:13,353
and fearful the prodigy
would further blemish

1157
01:02:13,354 --> 01:02:16,273
his multimillion-dollar brand
by beating him again,

1158
01:02:16,274 --> 01:02:18,317
Carlsen maliciously retaliated."

1159
01:02:18,818 --> 01:02:20,361
[Magnus] It was a bit too much.

1160
01:02:21,529 --> 01:02:25,323
Claiming this whole conspiracy
against one kid,

1161
01:02:25,324 --> 01:02:30,455
like, maybe he believes this,
which I really don't think.

1162
01:02:31,581 --> 01:02:35,250
This facade that he puts up
in interviews and media training,

1163
01:02:35,251 --> 01:02:37,085
it's all a complete joke.

1164
01:02:37,086 --> 01:02:39,213
Even his friends don't like him.

1165
01:02:39,714 --> 01:02:43,800
His friends will… Like…
"He's like unbearable even to be around."

1166
01:02:43,801 --> 01:02:49,015
All of his friends would be telling me
about how annoying it is to be around him.

1167
01:02:49,724 --> 01:02:53,478
I sued them
because they lied and they conspired

1168
01:02:54,061 --> 01:02:56,230
and they destroyed my entire career
and life.

1169
01:02:56,731 --> 01:02:59,776
They made a mockery of me,
and they all did it in coordination.

1170
01:03:00,443 --> 01:03:02,445
And no one's denying that.

1171
01:03:03,237 --> 01:03:06,364
[Danny] I'm the one who had
the most personal relationship with Hans.

1172
01:03:06,365 --> 01:03:10,660
A talented young man individually,
normally focused on only your own chess…

1173
01:03:10,661 --> 01:03:13,789
It's just hard 'cause when you get sued
for 100 million dollars,

1174
01:03:13,790 --> 01:03:18,502
it is the biggest punch in the gut,
the most mind-blowing experience.

1175
01:03:18,503 --> 01:03:21,588
Like, I don't have
100 million dollars, FYI.

1176
01:03:21,589 --> 01:03:24,884
Like, that's not something that is, like,
that is there.

1177
01:03:25,468 --> 01:03:28,970
[Hans] I certainly don't think
that he's a mentor to me now.

1178
01:03:28,971 --> 01:03:32,432
Actually, you know, I think
all the terrible things he's done

1179
01:03:32,433 --> 01:03:34,226
has inspired me so much.

1180
01:03:34,227 --> 01:03:37,646
So, whatever the opposite of a mentor is…

1181
01:03:37,647 --> 01:03:40,023
It's a mentor
but in the worst possible way.

1182
01:03:40,024 --> 01:03:43,819
So he has the effect of a mentor
by inspiring me and invigorating me

1183
01:03:43,820 --> 01:03:45,780
to destroy all of them.

1184
01:03:46,364 --> 01:03:48,782
Have you not seen
what the guy has done to me?

1185
01:03:48,783 --> 01:03:52,577
{\an8}Have you ever used anal beads
while playing chess?

1186
01:03:52,578 --> 01:03:55,247
{\an8}Not a question I thought
I'd ask a guest, to be honest.

1187
01:03:55,248 --> 01:03:58,751
{\an8}That interview was a good example
of what my life has become, right?

1188
01:03:59,252 --> 01:04:01,712
It's anal beads this, anal beads that.
I have to live with that.

1189
01:04:02,630 --> 01:04:05,215
{\an8}Well, your curiosity is a bit concerning.

1190
01:04:05,216 --> 01:04:08,803
{\an8}Maybe you're personally interested,
but I can tell you no.

1191
01:04:09,303 --> 01:04:10,888
{\an8}Okay, categoric no.

1192
01:04:11,556 --> 01:04:14,392
Just the fact that how Hans

1193
01:04:16,185 --> 01:04:18,687
survived through this process

1194
01:04:18,688 --> 01:04:22,482
and even seemed to "thrive" on this noise,

1195
01:04:22,483 --> 01:04:27,488
it's, uh, it's very impressive
and nearly disturbing.

1196
01:04:28,906 --> 01:04:32,285
[Morgan] Magnus Carlsen, are you still
suing him for 100 million dollars?

1197
01:04:33,870 --> 01:04:35,872
[lawyer] The case
has been resolved, Piers.

1198
01:04:37,665 --> 01:04:40,166
There was obviously the settlement.

1199
01:04:40,167 --> 01:04:41,668
Um…

1200
01:04:41,669 --> 01:04:44,005
And, mind you, I didn't want to settle.

1201
01:04:44,672 --> 01:04:51,553
But also, the US legal system sucks,
and it's really expensive.

1202
01:04:51,554 --> 01:04:53,139
He can't look me in the eye.

1203
01:04:54,891 --> 01:04:57,226
He's, like, literally afraid
to even be close to me.

1204
01:04:58,978 --> 01:05:00,354
It's traumatic for him.

1205
01:05:01,188 --> 01:05:03,315
If he had to shake my hand,
or look me in the eye,

1206
01:05:03,316 --> 01:05:05,567
he'd collapse, he'd throw a tantrum.

1207
01:05:05,568 --> 01:05:09,029
[Magnus] I think it's very likely
that I'll play him again.

1208
01:05:09,030 --> 01:05:11,323
But he needs to get a bit better

1209
01:05:11,324 --> 01:05:14,868
to play me in proper,
like, over-the-board tournaments.

1210
01:05:14,869 --> 01:05:17,330
[pensive music playing]

1211
01:05:24,170 --> 01:05:28,048
[Levy] I'm joined by Magnus Carlsen
on the evening before the first match

1212
01:05:28,049 --> 01:05:31,552
{\an8}of the 2024 Speed Chess Championship
in Paris, France.

1213
01:05:32,303 --> 01:05:34,179
Let's address the elephant in the room,

1214
01:05:34,180 --> 01:05:37,642
your semifinal matchup
is against Hans Niemann.

1215
01:05:38,392 --> 01:05:39,894
You've never had a villain.

1216
01:05:42,229 --> 01:05:45,398
How does it feel to have
this kind of presence in your life now?

1217
01:05:45,399 --> 01:05:48,444
Which, it will not go away
so long as you are competing.

1218
01:05:50,029 --> 01:05:53,823
[man] Carlsen has avoided the youngster,
who is now rapidly climbing the charts

1219
01:05:53,824 --> 01:05:56,118
and defeating super grandmasters.

1220
01:05:58,746 --> 01:06:04,668
Niemann has certainly become a lot better
at chess the last couple of years,

1221
01:06:04,669 --> 01:06:08,338
and it's a matchup
I certainly didn't… didn't want.

1222
01:06:08,339 --> 01:06:11,091
[Levy] The press conference
is gonna be up here.

1223
01:06:11,092 --> 01:06:14,344
- Where's the press conference? Here?
- It's gonna be right here.

1224
01:06:14,345 --> 01:06:16,221
[Hans] I don't do exclusives.

1225
01:06:16,222 --> 01:06:17,889
[Levy] It's not a matter of an exclusive,

1226
01:06:17,890 --> 01:06:21,643
it's just a matter
of we're a broadcaster of the tournament.

1227
01:06:21,644 --> 01:06:23,603
You gotta be allowed
to have a civil conversation.

1228
01:06:23,604 --> 01:06:24,438
[Hans] Oh, really?

1229
01:06:25,564 --> 01:06:29,235
The fact that Hans is here
is just, like… it is mind-blowing.

1230
01:06:29,735 --> 01:06:31,444
[Hans] If someone from Chess.com tells me

1231
01:06:31,445 --> 01:06:33,571
I am contractually obliged,
then I will do it.

1232
01:06:33,572 --> 01:06:34,823
I've done my part.

1233
01:06:34,824 --> 01:06:36,908
[Danny] He's gotten
so much fucking better.

1234
01:06:36,909 --> 01:06:38,618
He's playing the best chess of his career.

1235
01:06:38,619 --> 01:06:41,830
Like, there was no anticipating this.

1236
01:06:41,831 --> 01:06:46,418
It's going to be interesting
from a pure chess perspective

1237
01:06:46,419 --> 01:06:48,504
to see what he can do.

1238
01:06:49,213 --> 01:06:53,133
What's your main feeling
about this matchup with Magnus?

1239
01:06:53,134 --> 01:06:54,509
Is it excitement?

1240
01:06:54,510 --> 01:06:57,595
Is it relief
that you can finally play him again?

1241
01:06:57,596 --> 01:07:00,641
- Is this revenge?
- It's pure serenity.

1242
01:07:01,142 --> 01:07:02,393
Very calm.

1243
01:07:04,854 --> 01:07:08,982
[Hans] If he loses this match,
it'll be the greatest stain on his legacy

1244
01:07:08,983 --> 01:07:10,985
because he put
his entire career on the line.

1245
01:07:12,653 --> 01:07:15,071
[announcer] All right. We are here
for the match of the day,

1246
01:07:15,072 --> 01:07:16,990
the one everyone has been waiting for.

1247
01:07:16,991 --> 01:07:19,034
How's the crowd feeling
about today's match?

1248
01:07:19,035 --> 01:07:21,202
Let's go. Let's hear some energy from the…

1249
01:07:21,203 --> 01:07:23,288
- [crowd cheering]
- Whoo!

1250
01:07:23,289 --> 01:07:24,831
[suspenseful music playing]

1251
01:07:24,832 --> 01:07:26,584
It's time.

1252
01:07:27,710 --> 01:07:31,254
- [cheering continues]
- Whoa. Yeah. Yeah, okay.

1253
01:07:31,255 --> 01:07:36,926
Our first player of today's match,
grandmaster Magnus Carlsen.

1254
01:07:36,927 --> 01:07:38,553
[crowd cheering]

1255
01:07:38,554 --> 01:07:42,140
[Magnus] There's always
a little bit of fear,

1256
01:07:42,141 --> 01:07:44,976
playing against somebody
whom you don't really trust.

1257
01:07:44,977 --> 01:07:49,023
[announcer] And his opponent,
grandmaster Hans Niemann.

1258
01:07:50,024 --> 01:07:52,984
[man] There's a lot of history.
There's a lot on the line emotionally,

1259
01:07:52,985 --> 01:07:55,028
especially for Hans Niemann.

1260
01:07:55,029 --> 01:07:56,696
You see him there. He's locked in.

1261
01:07:56,697 --> 01:07:59,240
He wants this one
more than anything in the world.

1262
01:07:59,241 --> 01:08:03,495
This is the culmination
of a two-year saga.

1263
01:08:03,496 --> 01:08:06,372
Almost two years to the day.

1264
01:08:06,373 --> 01:08:08,625
[man] Everyone has been waiting
for this matchup.

1265
01:08:08,626 --> 01:08:12,128
The first time that they are sitting
across from each other in two years.

1266
01:08:12,129 --> 01:08:15,965
Your life is defined by critical moments.
And you have chances and opportunities.

1267
01:08:15,966 --> 01:08:19,010
This is one of these opportunities.
And I will rip him to shreds.

1268
01:08:19,011 --> 01:08:23,932
[Magnus] There is potential for this
to spiral if things start the wrong way.

1269
01:08:23,933 --> 01:08:25,309
There's no doubt about that.

1270
01:08:26,936 --> 01:08:28,311
[Danny] We've got drama.

1271
01:08:28,312 --> 01:08:29,813
We've got action.

1272
01:08:29,814 --> 01:08:32,441
And we are gonna have chess
in less than ten seconds.

1273
01:08:33,442 --> 01:08:35,944
- Can I get an amen?
- [both laughing]

1274
01:08:35,945 --> 01:08:39,990
[Hans] Life is truly poetic, and I think
that this is the most poetic ending.

1275
01:08:40,699 --> 01:08:41,575
I'm here in Paris.

1276
01:08:44,328 --> 01:08:46,580
It's the best place for revolutions.

1277
01:08:47,414 --> 01:08:48,958
[music fades out]

1278
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:51,252
Bring out the guillotine.

1279
01:08:52,128 --> 01:08:54,130
- [slicing]
- [dramatic stinger]

1280
01:08:56,173 --> 01:08:59,926
[Levy] Wow. A4 played by Hans.
He's trying to explode the queen side.

1281
01:08:59,927 --> 01:09:01,469
Magnus darts to the center.

1282
01:09:01,470 --> 01:09:04,639
[Danny] You see Hans bobbing there
and getting angry. Can he convert?

1283
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:06,558
[Levy] What a decision
from Magnus Carlsen.

1284
01:09:06,559 --> 01:09:08,601
- Only Hans can win-- I'm wrong!
- [crowd exclaiming]

1285
01:09:08,602 --> 01:09:10,938
Gets himself in trouble! It's almost mate!

1286
01:09:11,814 --> 01:09:13,565
[gentle piano music playing]

1287
01:09:13,566 --> 01:09:17,444
[Levy] This is gonna be a nasty finish
here, and this finally will end the match.

1288
01:09:18,028 --> 01:09:20,905
Seriously, the guy just got it done
in a match.

1289
01:09:20,906 --> 01:09:24,409
- What an incredible performance.
- [crowd cheering]

1290
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:28,413
[Danny] Magnus Carlsen, the world
number one, just took down Hans Niemann.

1291
01:09:28,414 --> 01:09:32,125
A player who is maybe one
of the best known players on the planet

1292
01:09:32,126 --> 01:09:34,210
for some things off the board,

1293
01:09:34,211 --> 01:09:36,546
but his play on the board,
it wasn't quite enough,

1294
01:09:36,547 --> 01:09:39,382
and Magnus Carlsen, he made him pay.

1295
01:09:39,383 --> 01:09:42,844
Magnus Carlsen dominated this match,

1296
01:09:42,845 --> 01:09:46,264
and whatever Hans Niemann
thinks that means,

1297
01:09:46,265 --> 01:09:48,099
and whatever statement that sends…

1298
01:09:48,100 --> 01:09:51,186
Chess is not gonna be speaking
for itself tomorrow, guys.

1299
01:09:51,187 --> 01:09:53,271
["Better For That"
by David Elliott playing]

1300
01:09:53,272 --> 01:09:55,274
<i>♪ Remember that summer ♪</i>

1301
01:09:55,816 --> 01:09:58,611
<i>♪ You were number one ♪</i>

1302
01:09:59,737 --> 01:10:05,701
<i>♪ But everybody said that
Lord, you deserve to have won ♪</i>

1303
01:10:07,578 --> 01:10:12,541
<i>♪ And I say to you
That I deserve to win too ♪</i>

1304
01:10:13,209 --> 01:10:16,503
<i>♪ Well, I'm better for that ♪</i>

1305
01:10:17,129 --> 01:10:19,048
<i>♪ Thanks to you ♪</i>

1306
01:10:22,218 --> 01:10:24,428
It's not the worst city to lose in.

1307
01:10:27,389 --> 01:10:30,893
[Magnus] He always said that he wanted
the chess to speak for itself.

1308
01:10:31,602 --> 01:10:34,939
He wanted to settle things
not in the courtroom,

1309
01:10:35,648 --> 01:10:37,816
but on the chessboard, so…

1310
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:40,486
[chuckling]

1311
01:10:41,195 --> 01:10:43,238
[Hans] I might have lost
on the chess board,

1312
01:10:43,239 --> 01:10:46,449
but on my end,
I'm doing pretty fucking well.

1313
01:10:46,450 --> 01:10:49,161
As a lone warrior against a legion.

1314
01:10:51,038 --> 01:10:53,623
Even though my entire life
and career has been destroyed

1315
01:10:53,624 --> 01:10:58,002
and I'll have to live with the fact that
every conversation I have about chess,

1316
01:10:58,003 --> 01:10:59,463
we'll eventually discuss anal beads.

1317
01:11:00,339 --> 01:11:05,302
I am a man on a mission, and they've
made it my life's purpose to win.

1318
01:11:05,886 --> 01:11:08,430
I'm gonna be a stone-cold killer
for the rest of my life.

1319
01:11:10,099 --> 01:11:14,353
[Erik] There's something about Hans

1320
01:11:14,853 --> 01:11:17,147
that creates an uneasiness inside of me.

1321
01:11:18,148 --> 01:11:20,109
How do you explain Hans Niemann?

1322
01:11:21,151 --> 01:11:24,654
[Danny] You know, now you have
the Norwegian world champion,

1323
01:11:24,655 --> 01:11:26,073
a god among men,

1324
01:11:26,824 --> 01:11:29,075
the most dominant chess player
of the modern generation,

1325
01:11:29,076 --> 01:11:30,577
and it's not even close.

1326
01:11:31,453 --> 01:11:33,414
And then there's the kid.

1327
01:11:34,373 --> 01:11:36,875
The kid who had the beads?

1328
01:11:39,378 --> 01:11:42,880
He's now one of the most recognizable,
infamous people

1329
01:11:42,881 --> 01:11:44,675
to ever play the game of chess.

1330
01:11:45,467 --> 01:11:49,012
And in my opinion, he lost the person
that he was along the way.

1331
01:11:49,013 --> 01:11:50,471
["Better for That" continues]

1332
01:11:50,472 --> 01:11:52,849
[Hans] They're just
a complete chess mafia, really.

1333
01:11:52,850 --> 01:11:54,727
That's it. [laughs]

1334
01:11:55,936 --> 01:12:00,189
And I just cannot wait for Magnus,
while he's old and disheveled

1335
01:12:00,190 --> 01:12:02,442
and going further deep into his insanity,

1336
01:12:02,443 --> 01:12:05,404
I'm gonna be young, improving,
and he's gonna have to watch it.

1337
01:12:07,072 --> 01:12:08,865
[Magnus] I'm not motivated by spite,

1338
01:12:08,866 --> 01:12:12,994
but if that's gonna inspire him
to be the best version of himself,

1339
01:12:12,995 --> 01:12:14,287
then…

1340
01:12:14,288 --> 01:12:16,122
then, uh, go for it,

1341
01:12:16,123 --> 01:12:18,833
just as long as he plays…

1342
01:12:18,834 --> 01:12:20,502
plays, um, fair.

1343
01:12:21,170 --> 01:12:22,713
[Hans] I'm going to be the best player.

1344
01:12:25,132 --> 01:12:26,466
No one's gonna believe that now,

1345
01:12:26,467 --> 01:12:29,553
but this clip will play over
and over again in ten years. Just wait.

1346
01:12:30,804 --> 01:12:34,641
I know things that the world doesn't,
and that's because I can see the future.

1347
01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:48,072
[song ends]

1348
01:12:50,741 --> 01:12:52,743
[tense music playing]

1349
01:14:03,313 --> 01:14:05,315
[music fades out]