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Downloaded from
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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♪♪ [haunting ambient]
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♪♪ [chaotic orchestral]
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[electricity buzzing, crackling]
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[rhythmic thumping]
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Ladies and gentlemen...
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Lynch/Oz.
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♪♪ [haunting ambient]
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[wind howling]
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♪♪ [ambient guitar]
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[Amy] When you look at the grand scope
of American storytelling..,
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in this strange...
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mixed-up, argumentative,
polarized country...
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finding a story we can all agree on
is next to impossible.
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There's these two very similar films
that are famous in film history
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because they share the same story beats,
the same trajectory,
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they were both flops when they came out.
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The first one is The Wizard of Oz,
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and the second one
is Frank Capra's It's a Wonderful Life.
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I'm shaking the dust
of this crummy little town off my feet,
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and I'm gonna see the world.
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Get me back!
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Get me back!
I don't care what happens to me.
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There's no place like home.
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There's no place like home.
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And a curious thing happened
with both of them,
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They went away for a few years,
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and then they were re-presented on TV,
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and they were kind of put forth
as special events.
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["Somewhere Over the Rainbow" playing]
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Fifty percent
of the television sets in America
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were tuned to The Wizard of Oz.
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And then Oz did so well in the numbers
that the network brought it back.
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And it eventually settled into a pattern,
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Always the same time of year,
always the same moment.
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It's right there, and it's special,
and it's precious.
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If The Wizard of Oz is not
the quintessentially American fairy tale,
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I really don't know what is.
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It's one of the first movies
I think most children are introduced to,
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as, "Hello, you are a child.
Welcome to the world of movies.
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Let me open up the curtain
of what cinema is."
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♪ Somewhere over the rainbow ♪
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♪ Bluebirds fly.., ♪
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But even beyond that,
what makes it special
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is this is a movie that we have had
that every generation of kids has watched
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for eight decades.
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[guards chanting]
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What's that? What's that?
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There's just something in the shared
candy-colored musical universe
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of The Wizard of Oz
that I find so remarkable.
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So visually and sonically influential.
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We've all been to Oz.
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One is starved for Technicolor up there.
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And the thing is,
it has not aged at all,
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because it's a film that takes place
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so squarely
in the world of musical and fantasy.
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You can never underestimate the power
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of when a movie that is extensively
taking place in a normal universe
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breaks out into song.
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Because that is the moment when the film
looks at the audience,
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and it says, "Are you in?"
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♪ Somewhere... ♪
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It makes me think of the moment
early on in Wild at Heart.
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Nicolas Cage
takes Laura Dern to a metal bar,
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and suddenly,
in the middle of this metal bar,
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he begins to sing Elvis,
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♪ I would beg and steal ♪
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[audience screaming]
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♪ Beg and steal ♪
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♪ Just to feel ♪
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♪ Just to feel ♪
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♪ Your heart... ♪
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And the band magically knows the notes,
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and everybody else
who's also at this metal bar
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magically sings along.
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♪ So close to mine ♪
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David Lynch must have been
4 or 5 years old
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that first year
they put The Wizard of Oz on TV.
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I do see the story of The Wizard of Oz
as the story of David Lynch himself
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becoming a filmmaker.
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I feel like I see him in it
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more than I even see his individual films,
despite all the references.
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Despite all the red shoes
and the curtains,
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He's a guy from the plains,
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Missoula doesn't look too different
than the Kansas in this movie,
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and so he goes on this journey himself.
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He's always talking about consciousness
and transcendence,
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and he takes us there through his films,
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There's an ocean
of pure vibrant consciousness
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inside each one of us.
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[woman] The stream flows, the wind blows.
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The cloud fleets, the heart beats.
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[Lynch] And it's right
at the source and base of mind,
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right at the source of thought,
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and it's also at the source of all matter.
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You'd better close your eyes,
my child, for a moment,
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in order to be better in tune
with the infinite.
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[Amy] And I think
that's what Dorothy does in this film.
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She transcends,
and she goes to this other world,
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and she goes on this journey
where she winds up finding herself
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and knowing her own powers,
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which, to me,
is the David Lynch story above everything,
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There's no place like home.
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He talks about his movies,
like Lost Highway, for example,
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as being what he calls
"psychogenic fugues,"
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where a character gets
knocked upside by trauma,
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and they wind up
slipping into this other dimension,
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almost as a way
of trying to find stability.
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I mean, whether or not
you believe Oz is real,
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you know that Dorothy got hit on the head,
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that something very bad happened to her,
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and that she was unconscious
for a long time.
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That she went to another place,
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that she had this near-death experience
in the middle of a tornado.
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Shit.
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Got this damn sticky stuff in my hair.
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There's this very small detail
at the opening of The Wizard of OZ.
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Right when the title comes up on screen,
you hear this gust of wind.
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But it's not a sound effect.
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It is humans sounding like a gust of wind.
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They're going, "Whoo."
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[chorus mimicking wind]
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That human wind sets up this mood
for the whole film.
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You know, a whole film
that winds up being defined by wind,
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And then
when the house starts to swirl around,
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it is absolute cacophony
inside of this tornado,
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and then she lands,
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and this entire movie goes silent
for the first time.
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And that silence
clears the table for the audience.
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And then the music kicks in,
and you start to hear the Oz theme,
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and you get a little gust
of that human wind sound again,
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And you have to wonder if those same winds
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are the ones we hear in David's films.
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[Lynch] I was painting
a painting about 4 foot square,
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and I was sitting back,
probably taking a smoke,
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looking at it.,.
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And from the painting, I heard a wind.
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[Amy] I've heard David Lynch say
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that when he wants
something special from his actors,
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he says, "More wind," which means
put more mystery in their performance.
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He too has that love of rooms
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that seem filled with wind
that you can hear,
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even if a room seems like
it should be completely airless.
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[wind howling]
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And I love that he talks about wind
as this source of mystery,
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when that is exactly what happens in Oz.
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Wind is the source
that rolls the girl around,
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and it puts her somewhere new,
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The camerawork in that scene
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helps set this really ominous sense
about Oz,
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and it sets up this vibration of,
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"This land is beautiful,
but you need to watch your back."
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Something with poison in it, I think.
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With poison in it.
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But attractive to the eye.
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I think there is a sense
in a David Lynch film
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where he trains you really early on
as the audience
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to never be content
to just take things at surface value.
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He is always interested
in what's underneath the surface,
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and he is pushing underneath that.
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And he is the person who would say,
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"Do you think that grove of apple trees
just looks like apple trees?
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I would look again. That grove
of apple trees is actually alive."
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There's violence
where you're not expecting to see it.
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The Wizard of Oz is absolutely darker
under the surface
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than the movie forces you to acknowledge.
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I mean, Dorothy
enters Oz killing somebody.
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And that's all that's left
of the Wicked Witch of the East.
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Two powerful women die
in The Wizard of Oz,
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at the hands of a young girl
who is pretty okay with it.
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Does Alice go into Wonderland
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and just start murdering people
left and right?
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I'm melting! Melting!
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She's dead. You've killed her.
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And it's funny because Frank Baum
looked across the ocean
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at Hans Christian Andersen
and the Brothers Grimm,
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who were writing
really grisly, gory stuff,
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and he thought, "I'm gonna write a story
that does not have that horror."
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But he didn't really do that.
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I think if there is a driving question
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or a driving goal that really connects
David Lynch in all of his films,
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it is that nothing should be
taken for granted,
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and that nothing is exactly what it is.
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Fred?
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I'm not me.
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I'm... I'm not...
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I'm not me.
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I'm not...
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I'm not me.
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And that we all contain within ourselves
a deep truth of who we are
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and the power to be the person
that we want to be,
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One hundred percent.
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It's interesting,
because every time I see David Lynch,
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I see a man who has done a lot of work
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to maintain the sense of moving
through the world like a child.
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And I love that he is so drawn
to a character like Dorothy,
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whose defining characteristic
is a complete lack of cynicism.
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She walks through this world,
and when people are kind, she is grateful.
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The only way to get Dorothy back to Kansas
is for me to take her there myself.
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Oh, will you? Could you?
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Oh!
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And when people are mean,
she's like, "Well, you're mean,"
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Shame on you!
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What did you do that for?
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But yet she is never jaded about anything.
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She has this gigantic curious spirit
that propels her forward.
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I think where David Lynch and Dorothy
have this strong point of connection
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is in the fact that they both know
that adventures cannot be planned.
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Life...
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is full of surprises.
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They can only be approached
with the right attitude.
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A man's attitude...
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A man's attitude goes some ways
to the way his life will be.
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Is that something you might agree with?
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Sure.
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He still thinks, I think, of curtains
almost as this gateway to magic.
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They open up, and then you get
to enter this other world.
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He favors theatrical curtains.
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The kind of curtains that belong
to magicians and movie theaters,
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The kind of curtains that you only use
when you are framing a performance,
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The kind of curtains he would've seen
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when he goes to the movies
when he was a young boy,
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and that curtain opens up.
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And so when you see a curtain like that,
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you know that something is about to happen
that is not real life.
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If a curtain is your divider
between reality and fantasy,
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the curtain is easy to get through
and to walk through.
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The curtain is welcoming.
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It's as easy as Toto
pulling back the curtain
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on the great wizard himself.
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[Oz]...think yourselves lucky that I'm...
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Uh... I am the great and powerful
Wizard of Oz.
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You're a very bad man.
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And you see on the Wizard's face
this disappointment,
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because he has disappointed them,
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I'm just a very bad wizard.
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And it's almost unfair, I think,
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for everybody to be so sad
when they see him,
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because it's still a great show.
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There's this fear that the director
does not want his craft to be exposed.
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And I wonder if that's a little bit
of where David Lynch is like,
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"I don't want to explain my films.
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I don't want to ever show you
my gears and my levers
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because nothing lives up
to what you have perceived on the screen."
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Damian asks,
"What's behind the red curtains?"
247
00:17:29,761 --> 00:17:32,222
It's a top secret thing, Damian.
248
00:17:33,014 --> 00:17:33,848
And, uh...
249
00:17:36,476 --> 00:17:38,353
just leave it like that.
250
00:17:39,271 --> 00:17:42,399
Sometimes when you see a filmmaker
make an allusion to a film they love,
251
00:17:42,566 --> 00:17:44,317
they're doing it
for this reason of saying,
252
00:17:44,484 --> 00:17:47,445
"This film was an influence on me.
Go watch it, Pay attention to it."
253
00:17:47,612 --> 00:17:50,949
But that is not at all how I think
David Lynch uses The Wizard of Oz.
254
00:17:51,116 --> 00:17:53,159
I mean, you can't use
The Wizard of Oz like that,
255
00:17:53,326 --> 00:17:54,953
because everyone's seen that film.
256
00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:02,502
I think he wants to go home.
257
00:18:02,669 --> 00:18:03,503
[Cooper] Home.
258
00:18:05,255 --> 00:18:07,173
Where is your home?
259
00:18:07,340 --> 00:18:08,091
Is that right?
260
00:18:08,258 --> 00:18:09,884
He knows where his home is.
261
00:18:10,927 --> 00:18:12,470
Well, where is his home?
262
00:18:15,348 --> 00:18:16,516
Where home?
263
00:18:16,683 --> 00:18:20,562
♪ We're off to see the Wizard
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz ♪
264
00:18:20,729 --> 00:18:24,524
He almost uses it as a way of making
his films more approachable.
265
00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:27,736
When you have something
like Wild at Heart,
266
00:18:27,902 --> 00:18:29,988
which is a story
without really clear arcs,
267
00:18:30,488 --> 00:18:32,657
and there's violence
that comes in out of nowhere,
268
00:18:32,824 --> 00:18:34,534
and tragedy that comes in out of nowhere,
269
00:18:34,701 --> 00:18:37,537
and yet incredible hot lust,
and humor, and romance,
270
00:18:38,496 --> 00:18:41,833
to take this crazy, like, mother figure,
with her red dress and nails,
271
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,169
and keep associating her
with the Wicked Witch
272
00:18:44,753 --> 00:18:47,881
is almost a way
of giving that character a parallel.
273
00:18:48,048 --> 00:18:49,674
Look out!
274
00:18:49,841 --> 00:18:50,925
I'm going!
275
00:18:51,092 --> 00:18:51,968
[whimpers]
276
00:18:53,637 --> 00:18:55,597
And letting the audience say,
277
00:18:55,764 --> 00:18:58,141
"I kind of understand who she is,
and why she does this,
278
00:18:58,308 --> 00:19:00,727
and I don't need to know any more
about her motivations."
279
00:19:01,561 --> 00:19:03,521
He's using The Wizard of Oz, I think,
280
00:19:03,688 --> 00:19:06,900
almost as a way of shaking hands
with the people in the audience,
281
00:19:07,067 --> 00:19:09,653
and saying,
"We do have this shared language.
282
00:19:09,819 --> 00:19:10,904
You can trust me."
283
00:19:11,071 --> 00:19:12,822
We will pursue,
284
00:19:12,989 --> 00:19:15,533
- capture, and incarcerate.
- Capture, and incarcerate.
285
00:19:16,409 --> 00:19:17,661
Let's hit the road.
286
00:19:22,248 --> 00:19:23,958
[wind howling]
287
00:19:33,051 --> 00:19:35,762
[Rodney] My family and I
were just watching Back to the Future,
288
00:19:35,929 --> 00:19:38,765
which couldn't be
a less Lynchian movie if it tried.
289
00:19:38,932 --> 00:19:42,644
But if you use the lens of Oz
to look at it, well, what do you have?
290
00:19:42,811 --> 00:19:47,607
A young man from Anytown, USA,
who travels magically to another world,
291
00:19:47,774 --> 00:19:49,150
in this case, his own past,
292
00:19:52,904 --> 00:19:54,781
This has gotta be a dream.
293
00:19:54,948 --> 00:19:58,451
Where he encounters doppelgängers
of people that he knows from home.
294
00:19:59,911 --> 00:20:01,788
Now, I've got no reason to suspect
295
00:20:01,955 --> 00:20:05,041
that Back to the Future
was inspired by The Wizard of Oz,
296
00:20:05,208 --> 00:20:08,628
but The Wizard of Oz
is a really sturdy template.
297
00:20:08,795 --> 00:20:10,714
It's a provocative lens to look at,
you know,
298
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,465
a lot of different stories through.
299
00:20:12,632 --> 00:20:14,217
Mom. Dad.
300
00:20:14,384 --> 00:20:16,469
- Did you hit your head?
- Marty, are you all right?
301
00:20:16,636 --> 00:20:18,471
You guys... You guys look great.
302
00:20:18,638 --> 00:20:20,849
Oh, Auntie Em, it's you.
303
00:20:22,392 --> 00:20:25,478
There's a strong Oz-Kansas dynamic
in Blue Velvet.
304
00:20:26,813 --> 00:20:29,441
We see how close the real world
and then that nightmare world
305
00:20:29,607 --> 00:20:30,734
are to one another.
306
00:20:33,027 --> 00:20:38,491
[Frank] In dreams, I talk to you.
307
00:20:40,410 --> 00:20:43,663
In dreams, you're mine.
308
00:20:44,247 --> 00:20:46,791
Jeffrey leaves the Kansas
of his family's bubble
309
00:20:46,958 --> 00:20:48,376
deep in the suburbs of Lumberton
310
00:20:48,543 --> 00:20:50,336
to the other side of Lincoln,
311
00:20:50,503 --> 00:20:53,089
where the sinister,
adults-only action goes down,
312
00:20:54,674 --> 00:20:57,051
Here's to an interesting experience, huh?
313
00:20:57,218 --> 00:20:58,219
I'll drink to that.
314
00:20:59,304 --> 00:21:02,974
He crosses over when he sneaks
into Dorothy Vallens's apartment.
315
00:21:03,141 --> 00:21:06,853
She's certainly a character from Oz,
not from Kansas, in Jeffrey's journey,
316
00:21:08,104 --> 00:21:11,858
And then Jeffrey is dragged through hell,
kills the big bad,
317
00:21:12,025 --> 00:21:13,777
and then returns to his family.
318
00:21:13,943 --> 00:21:16,196
And then, at the very end,
that scene with the robin,
319
00:21:16,362 --> 00:21:18,990
with Jeffrey and his family
gathered around the window.
320
00:21:19,157 --> 00:21:20,909
[Dorothy] Jeffrey, lunch is ready.
321
00:21:21,701 --> 00:21:22,535
Okay.
322
00:21:23,995 --> 00:21:26,122
Looks an awful lot
like Dorothy in her bed,
323
00:21:26,289 --> 00:21:27,665
surrounded by her loving family,
324
00:21:27,832 --> 00:21:31,503
It's a strange world, isn't it?
325
00:21:33,004 --> 00:21:34,756
But knowing things,
326
00:21:34,923 --> 00:21:37,717
having experienced things
that they never will.
327
00:21:43,807 --> 00:21:46,434
Paul Atreides
is a very Dorothy-like character,
328
00:21:46,601 --> 00:21:48,561
He certainly travels
through multiple worlds,
329
00:21:48,728 --> 00:21:52,857
Moves from the more colorful Caladan
to Arrakis, Dune,
330
00:21:53,024 --> 00:21:55,902
which is sepia-toned, a lot like Kansas,
331
00:21:56,486 --> 00:22:00,406
Ultimately, he liberates Dune,
just as Dorothy liberates Oz,
332
00:22:01,407 --> 00:22:03,493
John Merrick, the Elephant Man,
333
00:22:03,660 --> 00:22:07,288
is really the epitome of a character
who moves between different worlds.
334
00:22:07,455 --> 00:22:08,915
A freak on exhibit in the carnival
335
00:22:09,082 --> 00:22:13,294
is just about the lowest social class
I can imagine in Victorian England,
336
00:22:13,461 --> 00:22:15,547
and he leaves it for London Hospital,
337
00:22:15,713 --> 00:22:18,007
which becomes his gateway
to the upper class.
338
00:22:18,174 --> 00:22:19,592
If Oz echoes Kansas,
339
00:22:19,759 --> 00:22:22,470
well, then,
the hospital echoes the carnival.
340
00:22:23,304 --> 00:22:25,515
The horror and the abuse recur again.
341
00:22:25,682 --> 00:22:27,809
First, more politely
as scientific curiosity,
342
00:22:27,976 --> 00:22:30,979
but then again quite literally.
343
00:22:31,145 --> 00:22:33,648
So if you see Dorothy
as an innocent character
344
00:22:33,815 --> 00:22:35,400
flung into a dangerous world,
345
00:22:35,567 --> 00:22:37,986
well, Merrick's been born into one,
346
00:22:38,152 --> 00:22:40,738
and he strives to find his kinder Kansas,
347
00:22:40,905 --> 00:22:43,324
which, you know,
is sort of a reversal of Oz,
348
00:22:44,158 --> 00:22:46,828
And the images that we see
of his angelic mother
349
00:22:46,995 --> 00:22:49,080
seem, at least to me,
350
00:22:49,247 --> 00:22:52,083
to be a little inspired
by Glinda the Good Witch,
351
00:22:52,250 --> 00:22:53,793
the epitome of kindness.
352
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,712
Nothing will die.
353
00:22:59,883 --> 00:23:02,385
But just because Oz can be a handy way
354
00:23:02,552 --> 00:23:05,388
to help parse out particular elements
of Lynch's work,
355
00:23:05,555 --> 00:23:07,599
I wouldn't assume
that all the similarities
356
00:23:07,765 --> 00:23:11,269
were necessarily directly inspired by Oz.
357
00:23:11,436 --> 00:23:12,395
They could be.
358
00:23:13,229 --> 00:23:16,733
Desiring an idea is like a bait on a hook.
359
00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:18,443
- Yeah.
- It can pull them in.
360
00:23:18,943 --> 00:23:20,695
I like to think of it as,
361
00:23:20,862 --> 00:23:23,990
in the other room,
the puzzle is all together,
362
00:23:24,741 --> 00:23:28,411
but they keep flipping in
just one piece at a time.
363
00:23:28,578 --> 00:23:31,289
- In the other room--?
- Over there.
364
00:23:31,456 --> 00:23:32,874
[audience laughs]
365
00:23:33,583 --> 00:23:35,877
Based on Glinda's appearance
in Wild at Heart,
366
00:23:36,044 --> 00:23:39,297
I think it's safe to assume that he spent
some time thinking about the movie.
367
00:23:39,464 --> 00:23:43,927
But, you know, I personally have no idea
how far that influence really goes.
368
00:23:45,511 --> 00:23:47,305
He's certainly aware of Oz.
369
00:23:48,431 --> 00:23:50,475
It's certainly something
that he thinks about.
370
00:23:50,642 --> 00:23:52,685
It's certainly something
that's important to him.
371
00:23:54,270 --> 00:23:57,065
I'm gonna play
"Somewhere Over the Rainbow,"
372
00:23:57,231 --> 00:23:59,400
and, um-- Try to, anyway.
373
00:24:01,235 --> 00:24:03,237
[playing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow"]
374
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,294
♪♪ [blues guitar]
375
00:24:18,461 --> 00:24:21,673
A lot of people of people go to the movies
in order to experience new worlds
376
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:23,383
and new sensations.
377
00:24:23,549 --> 00:24:26,427
And for that, you need a relatable,
innocent, inexperienced character
378
00:24:26,594 --> 00:24:28,137
to be confronted by those things.
379
00:24:28,304 --> 00:24:30,348
And I think that that approach
works really well
380
00:24:30,515 --> 00:24:35,478
because the real world
often feels chaotic and strange.
381
00:24:36,229 --> 00:24:38,606
Every day we're dragged
into some chaotic new hellscape
382
00:24:38,773 --> 00:24:39,983
against our will,
383
00:24:40,149 --> 00:24:42,402
and we have to find allies,
we have to find a way out,
384
00:24:42,568 --> 00:24:43,945
to not only achieve our goals,
385
00:24:44,112 --> 00:24:46,239
but make it back home
at the end of the day.
386
00:24:46,990 --> 00:24:48,908
Of course, I could be projecting.
387
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:52,870
It might be that the broad strokes of Oz,
388
00:24:53,037 --> 00:24:56,290
an innocent character
finding herself in a nightmare world,
389
00:24:56,457 --> 00:24:58,793
characters appearing
in more than one shape,
390
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,338
within more than one avatar,
or having multiple doppelgängers,
391
00:25:02,505 --> 00:25:04,424
even the man behind the curtain,
392
00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:07,802
sort of sinister power figure
at the center of the narrative,
393
00:25:07,969 --> 00:25:09,554
one who has two faces,
394
00:25:10,304 --> 00:25:12,390
well, it could be
that that's a generic enough,
395
00:25:12,557 --> 00:25:13,683
a powerful enough metaphor
396
00:25:13,850 --> 00:25:15,977
that you could squeeze it
and poke it and prod it
397
00:25:16,144 --> 00:25:17,228
to apply to most anything.
398
00:25:18,354 --> 00:25:21,482
Thousands of movies are based on the idea
of fish-out-of-water.
399
00:25:21,649 --> 00:25:22,859
It's Beverly Hills Cop.
400
00:25:23,026 --> 00:25:27,196
Axel Foley travels from the urban grime
of Detroit to glitzy Beverly Hills,
401
00:25:27,363 --> 00:25:30,283
learns a couple lessons,
including that there's less difference
402
00:25:30,450 --> 00:25:32,952
than you might think at first glance
between those places,
403
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:34,620
and then he goes back home.
404
00:25:34,787 --> 00:25:36,456
The idea of going on a great journey,
405
00:25:36,622 --> 00:25:38,791
extending yourself
beyond your comfort level...
406
00:25:39,375 --> 00:25:40,501
Look.
407
00:25:40,668 --> 00:25:42,045
They're shooting buffalo.
408
00:25:42,211 --> 00:25:43,379
[gunshots]
409
00:25:47,467 --> 00:25:51,179
.., it's a story that's, what,
three-quarters of American movies?
410
00:25:51,345 --> 00:25:54,432
It's probably hard to overstate
how common that trope is.
411
00:25:54,599 --> 00:25:57,060
Luke travels from his home,
his Kansas-like desert home,
412
00:25:57,226 --> 00:25:59,103
to the Death Star, to the Rebellion.
413
00:25:59,604 --> 00:26:01,397
Is that an Oz narrative?
414
00:26:01,564 --> 00:26:02,440
Is everything?
415
00:26:06,861 --> 00:26:09,322
There's a really interesting movie
I watched recently,
416
00:26:09,489 --> 00:26:10,823
The Miracle Worker,
417
00:26:10,990 --> 00:26:14,077
Arthur Penn's 1962 movie
about Hellen Keller,
418
00:26:14,243 --> 00:26:17,914
and it really felt like I was watching
an early lost David Lynch film.
419
00:26:18,081 --> 00:26:19,665
There's a dinner scene
420
00:26:19,832 --> 00:26:22,376
where the very formal
and proper Keller family
421
00:26:22,543 --> 00:26:23,753
are sitting around the table,
422
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,255
and Helen is racing around it
like a wild animal,
423
00:26:26,422 --> 00:26:27,715
grabbing at food, grunting,
424
00:26:27,882 --> 00:26:32,095
and all the rest of the family around her
are trying to act like nothing is strange,
425
00:26:32,261 --> 00:26:33,721
That kind of contrast,
426
00:26:33,888 --> 00:26:37,266
at once comic and horrifying,
a little sad,
427
00:26:37,433 --> 00:26:38,935
felt very Lynchian.
428
00:26:39,102 --> 00:26:40,645
She'll be all right in a minute.
429
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:46,484
There's another moment where her teacher
is watching Helen out the window,
430
00:26:46,651 --> 00:26:49,654
and then Annie flashes
back to her own school days.
431
00:26:49,821 --> 00:26:52,448
As a kid, she was
in an institution for the blind,
432
00:26:52,615 --> 00:26:58,454
and Penn uses a double exposure dissolve
that lasts just an incredibly long time,
433
00:26:59,163 --> 00:27:00,790
if it doesn't look like a dream scene
434
00:27:00,957 --> 00:27:04,627
straight out of The Elephant Man
or Eraserhead, I don't know what does.
435
00:27:04,794 --> 00:27:08,840
It's something that David Lynch does
in a way that feels effortless,
436
00:27:09,006 --> 00:27:11,592
and it has this powerful dreamlike effect.
437
00:27:12,510 --> 00:27:15,179
There's that amazing dissolve
on Cooper's face.
438
00:27:15,346 --> 00:27:17,223
Lasts a minute, a minute and a half,
439
00:27:17,390 --> 00:27:20,309
where he seems to be
unmoored in his world,
440
00:27:21,144 --> 00:27:22,520
In The Miracle Worker,
441
00:27:22,687 --> 00:27:25,148
it's almost as if the ghosts
of Annie's past have returned,
442
00:27:25,314 --> 00:27:28,401
and in both cases, it's slightly Oz-like.
443
00:27:28,568 --> 00:27:30,653
All these characters
are becoming untethered
444
00:27:30,820 --> 00:27:33,781
and losing track
of which layer of reality they're in.
445
00:27:37,201 --> 00:27:40,329
Why would Lynch be that absorbed
with The Wizard of Oz?
446
00:27:41,539 --> 00:27:43,249
Well, it's very nostalgic.
447
00:27:43,416 --> 00:27:44,959
An American icon of a film,
448
00:27:47,712 --> 00:27:50,214
But anyway, Toto, we're home.
449
00:27:50,381 --> 00:27:53,342
Home. And this is my room.
450
00:27:53,509 --> 00:27:54,427
In a lot of his movies,
451
00:27:54,594 --> 00:27:59,015
there's a sense of a search
for a sort of lost perfect American world.
452
00:27:59,182 --> 00:28:01,350
A nostalgia for paradise lost.
453
00:28:02,018 --> 00:28:04,187
Perhaps for one that never really existed.
454
00:28:04,353 --> 00:28:07,231
Did the watch The Wizard of Oz
on a perfect day,
455
00:28:07,398 --> 00:28:09,400
at the perfect time as a child,
456
00:28:09,567 --> 00:28:11,694
and it's sort of baked
into his subconscious?
457
00:28:11,861 --> 00:28:13,404
I wonder if, on the same day,
458
00:28:13,571 --> 00:28:15,907
he watched
The Brain from Planet Arous instead.
459
00:28:16,073 --> 00:28:18,159
Would his movies be very, very different?
460
00:28:32,506 --> 00:28:36,177
Many filmmakers' works
are often variations on a theme.
461
00:28:36,344 --> 00:28:37,970
To me, Stanley Kubrick's films
462
00:28:38,137 --> 00:28:42,099
are often about exposing the abuses,
the excesses of people in power,
463
00:28:42,725 --> 00:28:45,186
Paths of Glory being
one of the most literal ones.
464
00:28:45,353 --> 00:28:46,437
[men cheering]
465
00:28:46,604 --> 00:28:48,481
[speaking in German]
466
00:28:49,607 --> 00:28:51,317
[men laughing]
467
00:28:51,484 --> 00:28:54,445
Hey, talk in a civilized language!
468
00:28:55,404 --> 00:28:57,990
But that continues all the way
up to Eyes Wide Shut,
469
00:28:58,157 --> 00:29:00,368
which is about the decadent super-rich.
470
00:29:00,534 --> 00:29:04,747
Ladies, where exactly are we going?
471
00:29:05,748 --> 00:29:06,832
Exactly?
472
00:29:06,999 --> 00:29:08,334
[all chuckling]
473
00:29:09,752 --> 00:29:11,837
Where the rainbow ends.
474
00:29:13,005 --> 00:29:14,423
Where the rainbow ends.
475
00:29:15,007 --> 00:29:16,300
In The Shining,
476
00:29:16,467 --> 00:29:19,178
there's the whole conversation
about all the best people
477
00:29:19,345 --> 00:29:20,471
who stayed at the Overlook.
478
00:29:20,638 --> 00:29:23,057
We had four presidents who stayed here.
479
00:29:23,849 --> 00:29:25,226
Lots of movie stars.
480
00:29:25,393 --> 00:29:26,352
Royalty?
481
00:29:27,186 --> 00:29:28,479
All the best people.
482
00:29:28,646 --> 00:29:32,984
Even Lolita is a girl who's preyed upon
by different powerful men,
483
00:29:33,859 --> 00:29:36,070
Clare Quilty and Humbert Humbert.
484
00:29:36,237 --> 00:29:38,572
Gee, I'm really winning here.
I'm really winning.
485
00:29:39,532 --> 00:29:41,575
I hope I don't get overcome with power.
486
00:29:42,076 --> 00:29:45,329
Lolita is a girl who's forced
to live in multiple worlds,
487
00:29:45,496 --> 00:29:49,250
the normal one of teenagers,
but also a darker adult one.
488
00:29:49,959 --> 00:29:51,919
Do you wanna stay with this filthy boy?
489
00:29:52,086 --> 00:29:53,087
Yes!
490
00:29:53,587 --> 00:29:56,340
- Why did you leave me alone?
- Shut your filthy mouth!
491
00:29:56,507 --> 00:29:58,551
There's a lot of Lolita,
the film, in Twin Peaks,
492
00:29:58,718 --> 00:30:01,971
and there's a lot of Dolores Haze
in Laura Palmer.
493
00:30:02,763 --> 00:30:04,181
What is real?
494
00:30:04,849 --> 00:30:07,101
How do you define "real"?
495
00:30:07,268 --> 00:30:09,854
Right now, I'm wrapping up a film
about simulation theory,
496
00:30:10,021 --> 00:30:12,440
and The Wizard of Oz
has been coming up a lot
497
00:30:12,606 --> 00:30:15,067
because, at the end of the day,
what kind of movie is it?
498
00:30:15,234 --> 00:30:18,362
It's the story of a young girl
who moves between parallel worlds.
499
00:30:19,613 --> 00:30:21,782
It means, buckle your seat belt, Dorothy,
500
00:30:21,949 --> 00:30:24,702
because Kansas is going bye-bye.
501
00:30:24,869 --> 00:30:25,828
[thunder crashes]
502
00:30:25,995 --> 00:30:29,081
And there's a question,
a sort of question mark left at the end.
503
00:30:29,582 --> 00:30:31,500
Which of these worlds is the real one?
504
00:30:31,667 --> 00:30:33,753
Are both of them real in some way?
505
00:30:33,919 --> 00:30:35,546
But it wasn't a dream.
506
00:30:35,713 --> 00:30:36,922
It was a place.
507
00:30:37,089 --> 00:30:40,593
And you, and you, and you,
and you were there.
508
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,889
That's a question that people play with
in countless movies influenced by it.
509
00:30:45,056 --> 00:30:47,975
In everything from Nightmare on Elm Street
to The Matrix.
510
00:30:48,142 --> 00:30:49,894
Lynch's films are filled with characters
511
00:30:50,061 --> 00:30:53,647
who move between different worlds,
and they're often very innocent characters
512
00:30:53,814 --> 00:30:55,107
like Dorothy.
513
00:30:55,941 --> 00:30:58,819
I've never seen so many trees in my life.
514
00:30:59,737 --> 00:31:02,531
As W.C. Fields would say,
"I'd rather be here than Philadelphia."
515
00:31:02,698 --> 00:31:03,783
In Mulholland Drive,
516
00:31:03,949 --> 00:31:06,619
which might be the most
Wizard of Oz-y of all of them,
517
00:31:06,786 --> 00:31:08,996
Betty's a perfect innocent
who finds herself
518
00:31:09,163 --> 00:31:13,292
in sort of the twin versions of Hollywood,
the dream and the nightmare.
519
00:31:13,459 --> 00:31:15,503
I think that in Lynch's dueling realities,
520
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:18,214
the membranes between layers of reality
are thinner
521
00:31:18,381 --> 00:31:20,216
than they were in The Wizard of Oz.
522
00:31:20,883 --> 00:31:22,301
In many of these movies,
523
00:31:22,468 --> 00:31:24,470
there are characters
who hold all the cards,
524
00:31:24,637 --> 00:31:27,973
just like The Wizard of Oz himself,
the man behind the curtain.
525
00:31:28,140 --> 00:31:31,560
Characters whose influence
travels between worlds.
526
00:31:33,104 --> 00:31:35,106
We've met before, haven't we?
527
00:31:39,235 --> 00:31:40,277
I don't think so.
528
00:31:44,073 --> 00:31:45,616
Where was it you think we met?
529
00:31:47,785 --> 00:31:49,578
At your house. Don't you remember?
530
00:31:51,705 --> 00:31:54,083
When Lynch was talking
about Inland Empire,
531
00:31:54,250 --> 00:31:57,420
another story of a woman who moves
between different levels of reality,
532
00:31:57,586 --> 00:31:59,255
he once answered,
533
00:31:59,422 --> 00:32:03,259
"We are like the spider.
We weave our life and then move along it,
534
00:32:03,426 --> 00:32:06,637
We are like the dreamer who dreams,
then lives in the dream.
535
00:32:06,804 --> 00:32:08,639
This is true for the entire universe."
536
00:32:09,473 --> 00:32:12,309
Like Mulholland Drive, in Winkie's Diner.
537
00:32:13,018 --> 00:32:14,854
That guy is talking about his dream,
538
00:32:15,020 --> 00:32:17,565
and he's afraid
that the dream could come true.
539
00:32:17,731 --> 00:32:20,609
And then, soon enough,
he finds himself in the nightmare
540
00:32:20,776 --> 00:32:22,611
of having to relive that dream,
541
00:32:22,778 --> 00:32:24,447
He says to his psychiatrist,
542
00:32:24,613 --> 00:32:26,073
"In the dream, I was sitting here,
543
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,784
and you were up there
by the cash register."
544
00:32:28,951 --> 00:32:31,620
And then it pans slowly over
to the cash register,
545
00:32:31,787 --> 00:32:34,498
and you see
the absence of the psychiatrist.
546
00:32:35,291 --> 00:32:36,125
And it cuts back,
547
00:32:36,292 --> 00:32:40,212
and then you see the gears turning
in the psychiatrist's head, who says,
548
00:32:40,379 --> 00:32:43,215
"Oh, you wanna see if it's real?"
549
00:32:44,467 --> 00:32:46,302
Then the man can't stop it from happening.
550
00:32:46,469 --> 00:32:49,054
The psychiatrist gets up,
and he walks to the register,
551
00:32:49,221 --> 00:32:50,181
and we pan over,
552
00:32:50,347 --> 00:32:53,142
and now he is exactly in that position.
553
00:32:53,309 --> 00:32:55,478
He's filled the negative space,
554
00:32:55,644 --> 00:32:58,105
and then the man
finds himself in his dream,
555
00:32:58,272 --> 00:33:01,275
the way Dorothy is transported
into her dreams of Oz,
556
00:33:01,442 --> 00:33:04,862
only without a tornado,
or even a dissolve.
557
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:07,615
Just in the space
of a line of dialogue or two.
558
00:33:10,534 --> 00:33:13,037
That very last scene
in Twin Peaks: The Return
559
00:33:13,204 --> 00:33:17,583
is the summation of a lot of ideas
that I think about with Oz and with Lynch,
560
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:20,085
the question of dreams versus realities.
561
00:33:20,252 --> 00:33:23,339
Because I read that the woman
who answered the door in this scene
562
00:33:23,506 --> 00:33:27,051
was actually the woman
who lives in that house in our world,
563
00:33:29,470 --> 00:33:30,554
This is your house?
564
00:33:31,096 --> 00:33:35,017
Do you own this house
or do you rent this house?
565
00:33:35,851 --> 00:33:37,394
Yes, we own this house.
566
00:33:37,937 --> 00:33:40,981
So it's almost as if, well.,.
567
00:33:41,899 --> 00:33:44,568
Which of the thousands
of possible multiple realities
568
00:33:44,735 --> 00:33:47,029
does Cooper land in
at the end of the series?
569
00:33:47,196 --> 00:33:49,865
He lands in the same one
that you and I are living in,
570
00:33:50,449 --> 00:33:52,076
and that the woman who owns the house
571
00:33:52,243 --> 00:33:54,912
that they filmed
Twin Peaks: The Return lives in,
572
00:33:55,663 --> 00:33:58,290
And it's more than Cooper
and Carrie are able to take.
573
00:33:59,208 --> 00:34:00,376
What year is this?
574
00:34:26,694 --> 00:34:27,903
[screaming]
575
00:34:35,619 --> 00:34:37,997
They end that sequence
in a complete mental breakdown,
576
00:34:38,163 --> 00:34:39,707
a complete panic,
577
00:34:39,873 --> 00:34:42,585
which was an experience
that I really went through
578
00:34:42,751 --> 00:34:44,336
while watching that whole season.
579
00:34:44,503 --> 00:34:45,921
It was shortly after the election,
580
00:34:46,088 --> 00:34:47,715
and a lot of us were confused and scared
581
00:34:47,881 --> 00:34:49,675
about what was going to happen
in the world.
582
00:34:50,968 --> 00:34:52,094
[Biff] God bless America.
583
00:34:52,886 --> 00:34:56,557
[Rodney] So it's really nice to return
to the world of Twin Peaks,
584
00:34:56,724 --> 00:34:58,350
even if, within the show,
585
00:34:58,517 --> 00:35:00,936
there's one unspeakable nightmare
after another.
586
00:35:01,103 --> 00:35:03,188
At least it was our unspeakable nightmare.
587
00:35:03,772 --> 00:35:05,899
This is the water.
588
00:35:06,775 --> 00:35:09,236
And this is the well.
589
00:35:10,487 --> 00:35:13,866
Drink full and descend.
590
00:35:14,658 --> 00:35:16,994
The horse is the white of the eyes,
591
00:35:17,911 --> 00:35:19,955
and dark within.
592
00:35:21,332 --> 00:35:24,501
But the strangeness crossed over
into my reality,
593
00:35:24,668 --> 00:35:26,879
because I remember Episode 8,
the big episode,
594
00:35:27,046 --> 00:35:30,257
the one with the atom bomb,
and the fireman, and that lizard.
595
00:35:30,424 --> 00:35:32,551
I've watched that episode twice,
and each time,
596
00:35:32,718 --> 00:35:35,929
another horror would be waiting for me
the morning after.
597
00:35:36,096 --> 00:35:38,182
The first time my wife and I watched it,
598
00:35:38,349 --> 00:35:42,019
our cat was acting really strange,
rubbing her head against the TV.
599
00:35:43,812 --> 00:35:45,689
The next morning, we came downstairs
600
00:35:45,856 --> 00:35:48,984
and the floor was just littered
with blood and feathers
601
00:35:49,151 --> 00:35:53,656
of a bird that she had managed to catch
while locked in the house all night,
602
00:35:53,822 --> 00:35:55,324
Maybe she escaped through a window,
603
00:35:55,491 --> 00:35:57,660
and maybe she pulled it
back inside somehow.
604
00:35:57,826 --> 00:35:58,869
I've got no idea.
605
00:35:59,036 --> 00:36:00,788
But she murdered it
while we were sleeping
606
00:36:00,954 --> 00:36:03,165
and scattered its remains
all over the floor.
607
00:36:06,126 --> 00:36:10,547
And then, two or three weeks later,
I watched it again, alone.
608
00:36:11,757 --> 00:36:13,384
And maybe this is in hindsight,
609
00:36:13,550 --> 00:36:17,763
but as I imagine myself
walking down the steps the next morning,
610
00:36:17,930 --> 00:36:20,182
I'm feeling a sort of Lynchian dread,
611
00:36:20,349 --> 00:36:24,436
like that guy in Mulholland Drive
who's walking back behind Winkie's,
612
00:36:25,062 --> 00:36:28,524
and I come to my desk, and on my phone,
613
00:36:28,691 --> 00:36:29,942
there's like 20 new messages
614
00:36:30,109 --> 00:36:33,362
that have just popped
in the last hour waiting for me,
615
00:36:33,529 --> 00:36:38,659
My father back in Florida,
he died the night before.
616
00:36:38,826 --> 00:36:41,620
He hadn't been doing well for a while,
so it wasn't a shock.
617
00:36:41,787 --> 00:36:44,415
But, you know,
the timing felt really strange.
618
00:36:45,124 --> 00:36:47,835
I don't think I'm gonna watch
that episode again any time soon,
619
00:36:48,001 --> 00:36:49,920
I don't wanna know what's gonna happen.
620
00:36:50,087 --> 00:36:52,506
There's bad juju
baked to the bones of that thing.
621
00:36:59,054 --> 00:37:01,807
It is happening again.
622
00:37:11,650 --> 00:37:13,485
♪♪ [ambient]
623
00:37:20,951 --> 00:37:22,870
[TV narrator] Like wildfire
in a wheat field,
624
00:37:23,036 --> 00:37:26,749
the fabulous tale of The Wizard of Oz
spread from town to city
625
00:37:26,915 --> 00:37:29,501
to nation to the entire world,
626
00:37:30,502 --> 00:37:33,213
[John] For me, The Wizard of Oz
was the ultimate,
627
00:37:33,380 --> 00:37:35,883
not just American movie-- Movie, period,
628
00:37:36,049 --> 00:37:39,136
that I saw as a child that made me
wanna be in show business.
629
00:37:39,303 --> 00:37:42,973
That made me want to create characters.
630
00:37:43,140 --> 00:37:49,104
That made me want to go on adventures,
and probably made me take LSD.
631
00:37:49,271 --> 00:37:51,523
♪♪ [dramatic orchestral]
632
00:37:59,114 --> 00:38:02,159
I think it was a good influence on me
all the way around,
633
00:38:03,660 --> 00:38:06,246
For me, it changed my life when I saw it.
634
00:38:06,413 --> 00:38:09,792
My obsession with The Wizard of OZ
started before television.
635
00:38:09,958 --> 00:38:13,670
My parents took me to see it
at the Rex Theater in Baltimore,
636
00:38:13,837 --> 00:38:14,838
which, oddly enough,
637
00:38:15,005 --> 00:38:20,803
later became the sexploitation nudist camp
movie theater, like, 30 years later,
638
00:38:20,969 --> 00:38:24,973
Then the Christmas thing became, like,
the sequel in my mind as a child,
639
00:38:25,140 --> 00:38:26,391
Every year, we watched it.
640
00:38:26,558 --> 00:38:28,268
I mean, it was a big deal event,
641
00:38:28,435 --> 00:38:31,104
and you always watched it
because it didn't come on again.
642
00:38:31,271 --> 00:38:32,189
There was no other way.
643
00:38:32,356 --> 00:38:35,275
Nobody could imagine that you could ever
buy a video of something,
644
00:38:35,442 --> 00:38:37,861
or watch it whenever you wanted,
or rewind it.
645
00:38:38,028 --> 00:38:39,905
That's the thing
I always was kind of against.
646
00:38:40,072 --> 00:38:41,532
You give away the magic trick.
647
00:38:42,658 --> 00:38:44,576
But, you know,
the saddest thing I ever heard
648
00:38:44,743 --> 00:38:47,788
was I talked
to this young kind of hipster kid,
649
00:38:47,955 --> 00:38:51,166
We were talking about movies.
I said, "Do you like The Wizard of Oz?"
650
00:38:51,333 --> 00:38:54,628
And he said, "No, not really.
I mean, it's basically just walking."
651
00:38:54,795 --> 00:38:58,131
I thought, "God, what a blurb."
652
00:38:58,632 --> 00:39:02,427
If a kid watches The Wizard of Oz today,
the film completely works.
653
00:39:02,594 --> 00:39:05,806
I think it's the perfect..,
like a drug to kids
654
00:39:05,973 --> 00:39:09,393
to get them hooked on movies
for the rest of their young lives,
655
00:39:12,563 --> 00:39:16,108
I don't think that's the only movie
that influenced David Lynch, or me,
656
00:39:16,275 --> 00:39:19,111
but certainly, he probably..,
657
00:39:19,278 --> 00:39:21,572
It was maybe
one of the first movies he saw too.
658
00:39:21,738 --> 00:39:23,448
And whatever those first movies are--
659
00:39:23,615 --> 00:39:26,451
The other one for me
was Cinderella, Walt Disney's,
660
00:39:26,618 --> 00:39:30,372
and I loved the stepmother in that movie,
and she was the same to me as the Witch.
661
00:39:30,539 --> 00:39:32,958
She was the villain,
the one you were supposed to hate.
662
00:39:33,125 --> 00:39:35,294
But I was a puppeteer when I was young.
663
00:39:35,460 --> 00:39:36,253
Was David?
664
00:39:36,837 --> 00:39:37,796
Hello.
665
00:39:37,963 --> 00:39:40,132
We're all very happy to be here tonight.
666
00:39:40,299 --> 00:39:43,510
Um, first of all,
I'd like to introduce my boys.
667
00:39:43,677 --> 00:39:45,178
This is Chuck-O,
668
00:39:45,345 --> 00:39:47,306
and this is Buster, and this is Pete.
669
00:39:47,472 --> 00:39:50,267
I'm David Lynch, and this is Bob,
and this is Dan.
670
00:39:50,434 --> 00:39:52,561
Many, many directors are,
671
00:39:52,728 --> 00:39:58,066
And later in life, your actors always say,
"We're not your puppets, you know,"
672
00:39:58,233 --> 00:39:59,192
Well, yes, you are.
673
00:39:59,359 --> 00:40:00,652
But I wonder if he was,
674
00:40:00,819 --> 00:40:06,241
because it seems like many, many directors
were puppet enthusiasts as children.
675
00:40:06,408 --> 00:40:07,534
And they were their actors,
676
00:40:07,701 --> 00:40:09,620
and they told them what to do, in a way.
677
00:40:09,786 --> 00:40:10,913
It's like this:
678
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:12,039
And then, "I got it."
679
00:40:12,205 --> 00:40:12,956
- "I got it."
- Yeah.
680
00:40:13,123 --> 00:40:16,710
And then start bouncing up and down.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
681
00:40:16,877 --> 00:40:18,503
Bounce around, and kissing.
682
00:40:18,670 --> 00:40:20,130
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
683
00:40:20,297 --> 00:40:22,549
So I think it came from that,
684
00:40:22,716 --> 00:40:25,427
that the villains
were always better characters.
685
00:40:25,594 --> 00:40:26,720
They had better outfits.
686
00:40:26,887 --> 00:40:29,473
They're the ones
you remembered more, in a way.
687
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,642
Captain Hook and Peter Pan,
688
00:40:31,808 --> 00:40:35,354
I mean, the little girl
in The Bad Seed, Patty McCormack,
689
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,231
These were my childhood playmates,
690
00:40:39,232 --> 00:40:41,193
Give me those shoes back.
691
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,528
Oh, no, I got them shoes here,
692
00:40:43,695 --> 00:40:45,864
where nobody but me can find them.
693
00:40:46,031 --> 00:40:47,741
You better give me those shoes.
694
00:40:47,908 --> 00:40:50,452
They're mine. Give them back to me.
695
00:40:50,619 --> 00:40:52,871
I wrote Margaret Hamilton in my life
696
00:40:53,038 --> 00:40:55,040
and she did send me back
an autographed picture,
697
00:40:55,207 --> 00:40:58,418
and she always signed her autographs
"WWW Margaret Hamilton,"
698
00:40:58,585 --> 00:41:00,003
like the Wicked Witch of the West,
699
00:41:00,170 --> 00:41:03,507
which I prayed she had
monogrammed sheets that said that.
700
00:41:04,174 --> 00:41:05,425
What a performance.
701
00:41:05,592 --> 00:41:06,760
What a performance.
702
00:41:07,594 --> 00:41:09,596
Who killed my sister?
703
00:41:09,763 --> 00:41:11,723
Who killed the Witch of the East?
704
00:41:11,890 --> 00:41:13,183
Was it you?
705
00:41:13,350 --> 00:41:16,228
And she was so much more fun
than the Good Witch
706
00:41:16,395 --> 00:41:20,065
who dressed like she had gone insane
getting ready for the prom.
707
00:41:20,899 --> 00:41:25,153
Most directors can always tell you
one of the first few movies
708
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,572
that obsessed them when they were a kid,
709
00:41:27,739 --> 00:41:31,994
and that is what led them
to pick this as a career forever,
710
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,288
The Wizard of Oz
is still my favorite movie.
711
00:41:35,455 --> 00:41:37,666
The Wicked Witch,
I was in drag only once in my life,
712
00:41:37,833 --> 00:41:41,044
and that was as the Wicked Witch,
and I went to a children's birthday party.
713
00:41:41,211 --> 00:41:43,505
You know,
I raised a few parents' eyebrows.
714
00:41:44,214 --> 00:41:46,591
I think all my films have been influenced.
715
00:41:46,758 --> 00:41:49,094
Oz was Queen Carlotta, maybe.
716
00:41:49,261 --> 00:41:51,888
I think Desperate Living
had some Wizard of Oz in it.
717
00:41:52,055 --> 00:41:57,686
Bring me her broomstick,
and I'll grant your requests.
718
00:41:57,853 --> 00:41:59,688
Now go.
719
00:41:59,855 --> 00:42:04,609
Loyalty to the queen
sometimes results in rewards.
720
00:42:04,776 --> 00:42:08,071
The Munchkins were,
hey, that was like Mortville, kind of.
721
00:42:08,238 --> 00:42:09,072
The Wizard of Oz.
722
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,116
A special little weird town.
723
00:42:11,283 --> 00:42:13,076
Even Divine was not the Wicked Witch,
724
00:42:13,243 --> 00:42:15,412
but Divine would've hung around
with a wicked witch,
725
00:42:15,579 --> 00:42:17,664
They would've gotten along well.
726
00:42:17,831 --> 00:42:20,292
I'm trying to think of, is there one scene
727
00:42:20,459 --> 00:42:22,627
that was really like
The Wizard of Oz on purpose?
728
00:42:22,794 --> 00:42:24,046
Like a parody of it?
729
00:42:24,838 --> 00:42:29,301
♪ You've got the magic touch ♪
730
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:39,811
if you could just help me--
731
00:42:43,315 --> 00:42:45,108
[dreamy music playing]
732
00:42:49,654 --> 00:42:51,239
Dorothy, the Kansas City Pot Head
733
00:42:51,406 --> 00:42:54,618
was a movie I made
that never really got made,
734
00:42:54,785 --> 00:42:58,497
Dorothy smoked pot,
and then went to... Went to Oz,
735
00:42:58,663 --> 00:43:00,832
which was a psychedelic high,
736
00:43:00,999 --> 00:43:03,502
I don't think
we ever got any further than that.
737
00:43:04,377 --> 00:43:07,380
The people that are my heroes or heroines
738
00:43:07,547 --> 00:43:09,758
would've been the villains
in other people's movies.
739
00:43:09,925 --> 00:43:11,468
And the villains in my movies
740
00:43:11,635 --> 00:43:14,137
are usually people
that are more middle-of-the-road,
741
00:43:14,304 --> 00:43:16,848
and judgmental,
and don't mind their own business.
742
00:43:17,015 --> 00:43:20,268
Now, Ms, Gulch
didn't mind her own business,
743
00:43:20,435 --> 00:43:23,396
I want to see you and your wife
right away about Dorothy.
744
00:43:23,563 --> 00:43:26,691
I make the same film.
The moral is the same.
745
00:43:26,858 --> 00:43:27,859
Mind your business.
746
00:43:28,944 --> 00:43:32,405
Exaggerate what people use against you,
turn it into a style, and win.
747
00:43:32,989 --> 00:43:34,699
All my movies say that.
748
00:43:34,866 --> 00:43:37,953
We find the defendant
not guilty of all charges.
749
00:43:38,954 --> 00:43:40,247
They're different characters,
750
00:43:40,413 --> 00:43:42,999
but the moral of all my movies
is definitely the same.
751
00:43:44,501 --> 00:43:47,003
David might agree with that
with his own movies.
752
00:43:48,505 --> 00:43:51,341
I think David and I both
have a love and a hate
753
00:43:51,508 --> 00:43:53,802
for the 1950s in America.
754
00:43:53,969 --> 00:43:56,972
I mean, the '50s was a terrible time,
755
00:43:57,139 --> 00:44:02,394
Tracy, I have told you about that hair,
all ratted up like a teenage Jezebel.
756
00:44:02,561 --> 00:44:05,355
Oh, Mother, you're so '50s.
757
00:44:05,939 --> 00:44:10,652
I mean, it was the most judgmental,
conformist thing ever,
758
00:44:10,819 --> 00:44:12,904
But not a one of us
is going to start eating
759
00:44:13,071 --> 00:44:15,157
until Laura washes her hands.
760
00:44:17,784 --> 00:44:19,744
Wash your hands!
761
00:44:19,911 --> 00:44:21,663
That's why rock 'n' roll exploded,
762
00:44:21,830 --> 00:44:25,250
It was the first way
to rebel from all that.
763
00:44:25,417 --> 00:44:27,627
God bless Dwight Eisenhower.
764
00:44:28,628 --> 00:44:31,047
[inmates] God bless Dwight Eisenhower.
765
00:44:31,214 --> 00:44:33,758
God bless Roy Cohn.
766
00:44:33,925 --> 00:44:36,136
[inmates] God bless Roy Cohn.
767
00:44:36,303 --> 00:44:39,306
So I think David
would probably agree with that,
768
00:44:39,472 --> 00:44:41,099
that we grew up with the same music,
769
00:44:41,266 --> 00:44:46,813
the same censorship in movies
that came falling down over the years.
770
00:44:47,439 --> 00:44:49,566
I don't think that America
has changed that much,
771
00:44:49,733 --> 00:44:52,819
People still wanna go home.
That's why I never left Baltimore,
772
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,449
The city has great style, I think.
It's sort of like white trash chic.
773
00:44:57,616 --> 00:45:02,454
I did stay here because, to me,
my real friends were here,
774
00:45:02,621 --> 00:45:04,623
and people that didn't care
about show business,
775
00:45:04,789 --> 00:45:08,501
and we went
over the rainbow ourselves here
776
00:45:08,668 --> 00:45:10,545
with my friends when we were young.
777
00:45:10,712 --> 00:45:13,632
And most of those friends, I still have.
778
00:45:13,798 --> 00:45:16,343
- [John] Hey, does that dog have to shit?
- [people chuckle]
779
00:45:16,509 --> 00:45:19,971
David has gone over the rainbow
from the very first film ever,
780
00:45:20,138 --> 00:45:23,683
He lives in a different reality
than you or I do,
781
00:45:23,850 --> 00:45:25,227
and that's quite obvious.
782
00:45:27,103 --> 00:45:30,941
The last TV show he did
was my favorite thing he ever did.
783
00:45:31,107 --> 00:45:34,444
Because if there was ever, like,
being kidnapped
784
00:45:34,611 --> 00:45:39,115
and taken into a Lynchian world
that you didn't even know where you were,
785
00:45:39,282 --> 00:45:42,869
you were so disoriented,
that it was like The Wizard of OZ.
786
00:45:43,036 --> 00:45:48,124
And I couldn't wait each week
to go there with him on that show.
787
00:45:48,291 --> 00:45:50,919
Somehow, he got that
through the Hollywood system.
788
00:45:51,086 --> 00:45:53,213
That is amazing to me.
789
00:45:53,380 --> 00:45:56,716
But from the very first moment
I ever saw a David Lynch film,
790
00:45:56,883 --> 00:45:57,884
which was Eraserhead,
791
00:45:58,051 --> 00:46:01,137
it may have been
the first weekend it was ever at midnight.
792
00:46:01,304 --> 00:46:04,683
And I started raving about it in the press
because it was such an amazing movie,
793
00:46:04,849 --> 00:46:06,309
and, of course, it still is,
794
00:46:06,476 --> 00:46:08,061
I've met John Waters many times,
795
00:46:08,228 --> 00:46:10,730
and I always make sure
I thank him for that.
796
00:46:10,897 --> 00:46:13,191
And that's kind of how we met.
797
00:46:13,358 --> 00:46:16,736
And there is kind of a famous shot
of David Lynch and I
798
00:46:16,903 --> 00:46:18,780
meeting out front of Bob's Big Boy.
799
00:46:18,947 --> 00:46:20,782
Have you ever seen that picture?
800
00:46:20,949 --> 00:46:24,035
At that period,
David did eat lunch at Bob Big Boy's.
801
00:46:24,202 --> 00:46:25,704
Every day, I think.
802
00:46:25,870 --> 00:46:28,248
- Can we say you're a creature of habit?
- Yes.
803
00:46:28,415 --> 00:46:31,084
Uh, habit in a daily routine.
804
00:46:31,251 --> 00:46:36,214
And, uh... And then,
when there's some sort of order there,
805
00:46:36,381 --> 00:46:40,719
then you're free
to mentally go off any place.
806
00:46:40,885 --> 00:46:44,973
You've got a safe sort of foundation,
and a place to spring off from.
807
00:46:46,141 --> 00:46:51,438
[Lynch] One day in Bob's,
I saw a man come in to a counter.
808
00:46:53,398 --> 00:46:56,568
Seeing him came a feeling.
809
00:46:58,361 --> 00:47:01,364
And that's where Frank Booth came from.
810
00:47:03,116 --> 00:47:04,951
Let's fuck!
811
00:47:05,452 --> 00:47:09,497
I'll fuck anything that moves! [laughs]
812
00:47:09,664 --> 00:47:10,957
[car tires screeching]
813
00:47:11,124 --> 00:47:13,877
[John] And even though I think
our films are very, very different,
814
00:47:14,044 --> 00:47:16,671
I think
that we are certainly kindred spirits,
815
00:47:16,838 --> 00:47:19,299
and have the same sense of humor,
816
00:47:19,466 --> 00:47:22,635
Wear your seatbelt!
817
00:47:22,802 --> 00:47:23,803
It's the law!
818
00:47:26,014 --> 00:47:27,432
[man screaming]
819
00:47:29,017 --> 00:47:32,729
Don't you fucking tailgate!
820
00:47:33,313 --> 00:47:35,231
- Ever!
- Tell him you won't tailgate.
821
00:47:35,398 --> 00:47:36,191
Ever!
822
00:47:36,358 --> 00:47:40,570
My favorite thing that David said
is that he loves making the movie.
823
00:47:40,737 --> 00:47:42,906
He loves editing. He loves thinking it up.
824
00:47:43,073 --> 00:47:46,284
But then it's released,
and the heartbreak begins.
825
00:47:46,451 --> 00:47:47,744
[John chuckling]
826
00:47:48,828 --> 00:47:50,455
What a great line.
827
00:47:50,622 --> 00:47:51,915
I know the feeling,
828
00:47:53,500 --> 00:47:55,085
I would have loved to have met him
829
00:47:55,251 --> 00:47:58,671
with Margaret Hamilton
while she was alive.
830
00:47:58,838 --> 00:48:00,423
That would have been the best,
831
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:07,722
[wind blowing]
832
00:48:16,564 --> 00:48:19,025
[Karyn] I was once a struggling artist
in New York City,
833
00:48:19,192 --> 00:48:20,652
and waited tables at a diner,
834
00:48:21,736 --> 00:48:24,572
David Lynch would come in as a customer.
835
00:48:25,907 --> 00:48:29,160
I was just so fascinated
that he always ordered pancakes,
836
00:48:29,327 --> 00:48:31,579
and used a lot of maple syrup.
837
00:48:31,746 --> 00:48:32,956
Short stack of griddle cakes,
838
00:48:33,123 --> 00:48:36,000
melted butter, maple syrup,
lightly heated, and a slice of ham.
839
00:48:36,167 --> 00:48:39,546
Nothing beats the taste sensation
when maple syrup collides with ham.
840
00:48:39,712 --> 00:48:41,214
He's quite handsome,
841
00:48:41,381 --> 00:48:44,759
almost a caricature
of Midwestern courtesy and bluntness,
842
00:48:44,926 --> 00:48:47,345
which I think we see
in some of his Q&A's,
843
00:48:47,512 --> 00:48:49,722
Do you want some more pie? A whole pie?
844
00:48:49,889 --> 00:48:51,141
Yes, I would, Ms. Johnson.
845
00:48:51,307 --> 00:48:53,768
And a piece of paper and a pencil.
846
00:48:53,935 --> 00:48:57,897
I plan on writing an epic poem
about this gorgeous pie.
847
00:48:58,064 --> 00:49:02,277
In 2001, I went to see Mulholland Drive
at the New York Film Festival.
848
00:49:02,444 --> 00:49:04,279
And then Lynch came out at the end,
849
00:49:04,446 --> 00:49:06,448
and he spoke
about the movie quite elliptically,
850
00:49:06,614 --> 00:49:07,740
as he is won't to do.
851
00:49:07,907 --> 00:49:10,827
[speaks in Spanish]
852
00:49:11,828 --> 00:49:15,331
[in English] There is no band.
853
00:49:15,498 --> 00:49:19,377
I remember somebody had asked him,
"What does the film mean?"
854
00:49:19,544 --> 00:49:24,466
And his response was,
"Well, I think you know," and that was it.
855
00:49:24,632 --> 00:49:27,302
I know you hate saying
what things mean in your films,
856
00:49:27,469 --> 00:49:32,765
but am I right in thinking
that that's at least in the right area?
857
00:49:32,932 --> 00:49:33,766
No.
858
00:49:33,933 --> 00:49:35,351
[audience laughing]
859
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:38,730
And then a guy asked,
860
00:49:38,897 --> 00:49:41,399
"Can you talk about your relationship
to The Wizard of OZ
861
00:49:41,566 --> 00:49:44,068
in relation to Mulholland Drive?"
862
00:49:44,235 --> 00:49:45,653
And his response was,
863
00:49:45,820 --> 00:49:48,865
"There is not a day that goes by
864
00:49:49,032 --> 00:49:51,534
that I don't think
about The Wizard of Oz."
865
00:49:52,827 --> 00:49:55,121
I will say that it was one
of those watershed moments
866
00:49:55,288 --> 00:49:56,664
for me as a filmmaker,
867
00:49:56,831 --> 00:50:00,793
to understand his sense of humility
in front of another piece of art.
868
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,671
Because he said it
with a kind of childlike wonder,
869
00:50:03,838 --> 00:50:06,966
in all of my subsequent viewings
of Mulholland Drive,
870
00:50:07,133 --> 00:50:10,595
I've always thought of it
as a companion piece to Wizard of Oz.
871
00:50:10,762 --> 00:50:14,891
Part of that has to do with perhaps
a left turn away from, quote,
872
00:50:15,058 --> 00:50:18,186
"on-the-nose gestures"
of a film like Wild at Heart,
873
00:50:18,353 --> 00:50:20,939
and something more about its structure,
874
00:50:21,105 --> 00:50:24,734
This idea of the dream
within the consciousness of a character,
875
00:50:24,901 --> 00:50:27,570
essentially comprising
two-thirds of the film,
876
00:50:27,737 --> 00:50:30,031
a dreamscape given narrative life,
877
00:50:30,907 --> 00:50:35,578
Mulholland Drive is an exploration
of a character named Betty Wilkes,
878
00:50:35,745 --> 00:50:37,372
a fresh-faced aspiring actor
879
00:50:37,539 --> 00:50:40,041
who comes to Hollywood to make it big.
880
00:50:40,208 --> 00:50:42,252
She immediately meets
a cast of characters
881
00:50:42,418 --> 00:50:44,963
who are also searching
for something themselves,
882
00:50:45,922 --> 00:50:50,677
and she's immediately thrust
into mysteries beyond her comprehension,
883
00:50:50,843 --> 00:50:54,597
and romance
that's unexpected and somewhat unruly,
884
00:50:54,764 --> 00:50:57,308
And in the process
of investigating this mystery,
885
00:50:57,475 --> 00:51:01,396
we learn about another woman
who looks very much like Betty Wilkes
886
00:51:01,563 --> 00:51:03,273
named Diane Selwyn.
887
00:51:03,439 --> 00:51:07,110
And we learn about
a kind of shadow world that she lives in
888
00:51:07,277 --> 00:51:08,861
that's very much like Betty's,
889
00:51:09,028 --> 00:51:11,447
but the failed version of Betty's life,
890
00:51:14,284 --> 00:51:15,201
Camilla.
891
00:51:19,038 --> 00:51:20,290
You've come back.
892
00:51:22,083 --> 00:51:23,793
We're given access to the fantasy,
893
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,879
and the dreams,
and the hopes of Betty's character.
894
00:51:27,046 --> 00:51:29,924
And then, by pulling the lid off of that,
895
00:51:30,091 --> 00:51:33,219
we realize that there is a hope
for something that never happened
896
00:51:33,386 --> 00:51:34,971
in the character of Diane Selwyn,
897
00:51:35,138 --> 00:51:37,098
It's as if Lynch is saying,
898
00:51:37,265 --> 00:51:39,601
"We're not going to learn
as much about this character
899
00:51:39,767 --> 00:51:42,145
by watching her
in her dank Hollywood apartment,
900
00:51:42,312 --> 00:51:46,566
planning a murder, haunted
by the odiousness of her own thoughts.
901
00:51:46,733 --> 00:51:48,526
We're going to learn
so much more about her
902
00:51:48,693 --> 00:51:51,487
seeing her
as the best version of herself."
903
00:51:51,654 --> 00:51:53,364
Ten bucks says you're Betty.
904
00:51:53,948 --> 00:51:55,700
Yes, I am, Mrs. Lenoix.
905
00:51:56,242 --> 00:52:00,496
The most capable, the most talented,
the most hopeful and loving,
906
00:52:02,790 --> 00:52:03,833
Thanks.
907
00:52:06,210 --> 00:52:07,128
Diane.
908
00:52:09,631 --> 00:52:10,882
And in the process,
909
00:52:11,049 --> 00:52:15,178
we're going to see Diane's imagination
of a better version of her girlfriend,
910
00:52:15,345 --> 00:52:16,929
which is so heartbreaking,
911
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,432
What's your name?
912
00:52:19,599 --> 00:52:22,226
And the way to get
to that better version of the girlfriend
913
00:52:22,393 --> 00:52:24,562
is to strip her of all of her identity,
914
00:52:25,063 --> 00:52:27,065
Diane Selwyn.
915
00:52:27,231 --> 00:52:28,983
Maybe that's my name.
916
00:52:29,150 --> 00:52:32,111
There's something so deeply moving
about this strategy
917
00:52:32,278 --> 00:52:33,279
because it's saying,
918
00:52:33,446 --> 00:52:35,323
"Sometimes we learn more
about a character
919
00:52:35,490 --> 00:52:38,951
not from their reality,
but from their dreams."
920
00:52:39,118 --> 00:52:40,370
[Cowboy] Hey, pretty girl.
921
00:52:41,996 --> 00:52:43,122
Time to wake up.
922
00:52:45,541 --> 00:52:48,044
Mulholland Drive is an inverse of Oz,
923
00:52:48,211 --> 00:52:52,632
in that the home we return our Dorothy to,
in this case, Diane Selwyn's,
924
00:52:52,799 --> 00:52:55,385
is not one she wants to return to.
925
00:52:55,551 --> 00:52:58,596
It's a much darker register
of the Oz narrative,
926
00:53:00,181 --> 00:53:02,558
I was so struck, watching the movie again,
927
00:53:02,725 --> 00:53:05,645
by how it is such
a merciless depiction of Hollywood.
928
00:53:05,812 --> 00:53:08,856
It seems to be
such a personal film for Lynch.
929
00:53:09,023 --> 00:53:14,028
You feel a sense of deep,
almost anticipatory wounding in him
930
00:53:14,195 --> 00:53:15,655
in his depiction of Hollywood,
931
00:53:15,822 --> 00:53:17,740
There is no way that girl is in my movie.
932
00:53:17,907 --> 00:53:19,409
[yelling]
933
00:53:21,828 --> 00:53:22,995
This is the girl.
934
00:53:23,162 --> 00:53:26,499
Hey, that girl is not in my film!
935
00:53:29,293 --> 00:53:30,962
It's no longer your film.
936
00:53:31,129 --> 00:53:32,964
And to me,
there's nothing more nightmarish
937
00:53:33,131 --> 00:53:36,718
than the moment that the director says,
"This is the girl,"
938
00:53:36,884 --> 00:53:41,013
because you understand he has surrendered
his agency to larger forces
939
00:53:41,180 --> 00:53:43,641
as a way to just stay in the game.
940
00:53:43,808 --> 00:53:45,852
There is almost nothing
more brutally truthful
941
00:53:46,018 --> 00:53:48,479
about the process
of making movies in Hollywood
942
00:53:48,646 --> 00:53:49,814
than that moment,
943
00:53:49,981 --> 00:53:53,109
Might as well be a documentary,
as far as I'm concerned,
944
00:53:53,943 --> 00:53:58,656
When you don't have final cut,
total creative freedom,
945
00:53:59,157 --> 00:54:02,702
you stand to die the death.
946
00:54:02,869 --> 00:54:04,829
Die the death.
947
00:54:05,830 --> 00:54:09,208
And died I did.
948
00:54:09,876 --> 00:54:12,628
I just think there's so many things
in Lynch's work
949
00:54:12,795 --> 00:54:14,672
that are speaking back to Oz,
950
00:54:14,839 --> 00:54:17,675
and they show up
so profoundly in this film,
951
00:54:17,842 --> 00:54:19,677
like Rebekah Del Rio lip-synching
952
00:54:19,844 --> 00:54:22,805
the Spanish version
of Roy Orbison's "Crying,"
953
00:54:22,972 --> 00:54:27,143
It's like hearing Judy Garland's
incredible recorded real voice
954
00:54:27,310 --> 00:54:30,772
lip-synching to herself
singing "Over the Rainbow."
955
00:54:31,439 --> 00:54:35,276
It's foundational in Oz,
but it's also foundational in Lynch,
956
00:54:35,443 --> 00:54:37,653
to watch characters lip-synch.
957
00:54:37,820 --> 00:54:39,322
I just feel that, as a kid,
958
00:54:39,489 --> 00:54:40,656
he must have been aware
959
00:54:40,823 --> 00:54:44,869
that Garland was moving her mouth
to a recording of her own voice.
960
00:54:45,661 --> 00:54:49,582
The drama and the uncanny weirdness
of that Rebekah Del Rio performance,
961
00:54:49,749 --> 00:54:50,917
that's all Oz.
962
00:54:51,083 --> 00:54:54,170
The blue-haired lady, that's all Oz.
963
00:54:54,670 --> 00:54:57,215
There's a couple
of extraordinary moments in Oz
964
00:54:57,381 --> 00:54:59,967
where you just get close-ups
of the Witch's face,
965
00:55:00,134 --> 00:55:02,762
of the Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion,
966
00:55:02,929 --> 00:55:05,640
where you really see
the artifice of the makeup,
967
00:55:06,182 --> 00:55:09,936
When Lynch plays with those gestures,
I think they are intentional,
968
00:55:10,102 --> 00:55:12,688
Thinking about movies
like Fire Walk With Me,
969
00:55:12,855 --> 00:55:14,732
where Lynch will do something so simple
970
00:55:14,899 --> 00:55:17,652
as Laura Palmer
talking to her old boyfriend,
971
00:55:17,819 --> 00:55:21,322
and he does a hard cut to her
wearing black lipstick and laughing,
972
00:55:21,489 --> 00:55:22,490
and then cuts out of it,
973
00:55:23,157 --> 00:55:25,660
It is so scary, so shocking,
974
00:55:25,827 --> 00:55:27,995
that kind of simple makeup gesture,
975
00:55:28,162 --> 00:55:30,873
truly going back
to the origins of theater,
976
00:55:31,582 --> 00:55:33,835
He's looking back at the green-faced Witch
977
00:55:34,001 --> 00:55:36,629
when he puts that black lipstick
on Laura Palmer.
978
00:55:36,796 --> 00:55:39,048
And I think the same is true with the man,
979
00:55:39,215 --> 00:55:40,967
who I believe is actually a woman,
980
00:55:41,133 --> 00:55:43,678
behind Winkie's in Mulholland Drive.
981
00:55:44,345 --> 00:55:46,681
It's a gesture of theatrical artifice,
982
00:55:46,848 --> 00:55:49,016
but also something emotionally more true
983
00:55:49,183 --> 00:55:53,062
than just seeing a guy back there,
roasting hot dogs or squirrels,
984
00:55:53,229 --> 00:55:56,482
That black makeup
with the red-ringed eyes,
985
00:55:56,649 --> 00:56:00,319
it's such a strong, strange,
deeply bold choice,
986
00:56:00,820 --> 00:56:03,573
And I feel like that kind of choice
is directly influenced
987
00:56:03,739 --> 00:56:07,451
by some of the wildness
that we've come to take for granted in Oz.
988
00:56:08,077 --> 00:56:10,204
What I think is perhaps a through line
989
00:56:10,371 --> 00:56:12,915
between Oz and the films Lynch has made
990
00:56:13,082 --> 00:56:15,334
is this kind of unconscious courage
991
00:56:15,501 --> 00:56:19,839
that the character is willing to keep
opening doors they shouldn't be opening,
992
00:56:20,006 --> 00:56:22,925
to keep going to addresses
they shouldn't go,
993
00:56:23,092 --> 00:56:25,970
to keep spying on those
they should not spy on.
994
00:56:26,846 --> 00:56:30,600
They invite chaos into their life
because they have to know.
995
00:56:31,142 --> 00:56:35,104
I'm involved in a mystery.
I'm in the middle of a mystery.
996
00:56:35,271 --> 00:56:37,148
And it's all secret.
997
00:56:38,482 --> 00:56:43,279
He applies the quotidian narrative trope
of the detective to many of his films.
998
00:56:43,446 --> 00:56:45,281
Characters who are detectives
999
00:56:45,448 --> 00:56:48,659
of metaphysical mysteries,
cosmic mysteries,
1000
00:56:48,826 --> 00:56:51,120
sometimes to their great peril or horror.
1001
00:56:51,996 --> 00:56:52,955
Gordon?
1002
00:56:54,457 --> 00:56:55,374
Gordon!
1003
00:56:56,083 --> 00:56:58,252
And if you think about Dorothy and Oz,
1004
00:56:58,419 --> 00:57:02,381
she's a child detective,
with her dog and a picnic basket.
1005
00:57:02,548 --> 00:57:05,134
She's being asked to go
on this insane journey
1006
00:57:05,301 --> 00:57:08,387
and trust to follow
that Yellow Brick Road.
1007
00:57:09,513 --> 00:57:12,642
Part of the irony to me
when I think about The Wizard of Oz
1008
00:57:12,808 --> 00:57:16,938
is I think of it as forever coupled,
of course, with Gone With the Wind.
1009
00:57:17,104 --> 00:57:20,691
These two completely foundational works
made by the same person
1010
00:57:20,858 --> 00:57:22,693
and released in the same year,
1011
00:57:22,860 --> 00:57:26,322
it's a strange statement
about the American unconscious.
1012
00:57:27,031 --> 00:57:27,865
Home.
1013
00:57:28,032 --> 00:57:29,367
♪♪ [dramatic orchestral]
1014
00:57:29,533 --> 00:57:30,493
I'll go home.
1015
00:57:31,911 --> 00:57:34,038
And I'll think of some way
to get him back.
1016
00:57:35,957 --> 00:57:37,750
And when you look at Lynch's films,
1017
00:57:37,917 --> 00:57:40,544
which are so driven
by a law of the unconscious,
1018
00:57:40,711 --> 00:57:43,756
why wouldn't Oz
be the foundational text for him?
1019
00:57:43,923 --> 00:57:46,842
I do wonder if he would've found his way
towards some version
1020
00:57:47,009 --> 00:57:50,096
of what is his inimitable style
over time anyway,
1021
00:57:50,638 --> 00:57:53,557
but that Oz gave him permission
to think so big,
1022
00:57:53,724 --> 00:57:56,018
to think so wildly and off the map.
1023
00:57:56,185 --> 00:57:58,854
I don't think it's so unusual
to find new inspiration
1024
00:57:59,021 --> 00:58:01,440
or comforting lessons in a single work.
1025
00:58:01,983 --> 00:58:04,151
In the same way
that we might consult the Bible,
1026
00:58:04,318 --> 00:58:08,406
I think Oz has served as some kind
of foundational text for Lynch.
1027
00:58:08,572 --> 00:58:09,657
I really do,
1028
00:58:10,157 --> 00:58:14,245
His body of work is braided
with gestures and moments in Oz,
1029
00:58:14,412 --> 00:58:17,248
which have burned their way
into Lynch's creative mind.
1030
00:58:19,750 --> 00:58:23,504
My sense is that his work
is governed by irrationality,
1031
00:58:23,671 --> 00:58:26,048
and that he arrives
at some of his best ideas
1032
00:58:26,215 --> 00:58:30,261
through a trip into his unconscious
as opposed to his conscious mind.
1033
00:58:34,807 --> 00:58:37,184
In some of his work,
he's proving the theorem
1034
00:58:37,351 --> 00:58:40,604
that once we see certain works,
and once certain images
1035
00:58:40,771 --> 00:58:44,191
and story passages and characters
are burned into our brain,
1036
00:58:44,358 --> 00:58:45,985
there is no unseeing,
1037
00:58:46,152 --> 00:58:49,405
and somehow,
that work has landed in our DNA,
1038
00:58:49,905 --> 00:58:53,534
And for him,
there's just a lot more of Oz in his DNA
1039
00:58:53,701 --> 00:58:55,745
than there is in another filmmaker.
1040
00:58:55,911 --> 00:58:59,415
There are so many gestures that I wonder
if Lynch himself would say,
1041
00:58:59,582 --> 00:59:02,752
"I love to watch people
singing lip-synch songs," for instance,
1042
00:59:02,918 --> 00:59:05,588
which happens in at least
every other one of his movies,
1043
00:59:05,755 --> 00:59:08,382
and sometimes
within his movies multiple times,
1044
00:59:08,549 --> 00:59:11,594
as in Mulholland Drive,
and always in front of curtains,
1045
00:59:11,761 --> 00:59:18,142
♪ And I'll see you ♪
1046
00:59:18,726 --> 00:59:23,272
♪ And you'll see me ♪
1047
00:59:23,439 --> 00:59:25,608
♪ And I'll see you.., ♪
1048
00:59:29,028 --> 00:59:31,989
I just wonder if that's his dream
of The Wizard of Oz.
1049
00:59:32,156 --> 00:59:33,157
Do you know what I mean?
1050
00:59:36,285 --> 00:59:37,870
Like in his dream life,
1051
00:59:38,037 --> 00:59:40,456
that's how the Wizard of Oz has landed.
1052
00:59:40,623 --> 00:59:43,959
As Dorothy in front of curtains
as a torch singer,
1053
00:59:44,126 --> 00:59:47,088
not a 12-year old farm girl
in a gingham dress,
1054
00:59:53,761 --> 00:59:58,265
♪ Somewhere ♪
1055
00:59:58,432 --> 01:00:02,436
♪ Over the rainbow.,. ♪
1056
01:00:02,937 --> 01:00:05,606
But part of what I think
is so juicy about this idea
1057
01:00:05,773 --> 01:00:10,945
that he is so influenced by the film
is the metastory beyond The Wizard of Oz.
1058
01:00:11,112 --> 01:00:15,116
It's the story of Judy Garland,
her brilliance, her greatness,
1059
01:00:15,282 --> 01:00:19,161
the deep betrayal that she experienced
as a genius in Hollywood,
1060
01:00:19,328 --> 01:00:22,498
the tragedy of her life,
the wreckage of her life.
1061
01:00:23,165 --> 01:00:27,294
You don't know what it's like
to watch somebody you love
1062
01:00:28,003 --> 01:00:32,466
just crumble away
bit by bit and day by day
1063
01:00:32,633 --> 01:00:34,218
in front of your eyes.
1064
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,222
I think that is as influential to Lynch
as the film itself.
1065
01:00:38,389 --> 01:00:39,515
Good night, baby.
1066
01:00:39,682 --> 01:00:41,851
It's the story outside of the story.
1067
01:00:42,852 --> 01:00:45,271
And that is so much Lynch to me,
1068
01:00:45,437 --> 01:00:48,607
that he's always telling the story
outside of the story,
1069
01:00:48,774 --> 01:00:51,235
and sort of saying, "But it gets bigger,
1070
01:00:51,902 --> 01:00:53,195
It expands."
1071
01:00:55,781 --> 01:00:58,325
And Mulholland Drive, to me,
is one of those movies
1072
01:00:58,492 --> 01:01:00,494
where he completely sticks the landing
1073
01:01:00,661 --> 01:01:04,790
in terms of proposing a world
of great possibilities and great mystery,
1074
01:01:04,957 --> 01:01:08,544
and then actually showing it to us
the way that Oz does.
1075
01:01:09,253 --> 01:01:10,337
Howdy.
1076
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:11,922
Howdy to you.
1077
01:01:12,548 --> 01:01:15,509
The scene that stands out for me
as it relates to Dorothy and Oz
1078
01:01:15,676 --> 01:01:18,095
is the masterful scene
of Betty auditioning.
1079
01:01:18,596 --> 01:01:20,347
First, watching her play the scene
1080
01:01:20,514 --> 01:01:22,975
with the Rita character
reading the lines horribly
1081
01:01:23,142 --> 01:01:24,894
and being clearly not an actor,
1082
01:01:25,060 --> 01:01:28,189
which is its own sort of wish fulfillment
on Diane Selwyn's part.
1083
01:01:28,355 --> 01:01:29,940
So get out of here before...
1084
01:01:32,443 --> 01:01:33,402
Before what?
1085
01:01:33,569 --> 01:01:36,739
Before... I kill you.
1086
01:01:37,448 --> 01:01:39,074
Then they'd put you in jail.
1087
01:01:42,953 --> 01:01:44,955
There's something so inspirational to me
1088
01:01:45,122 --> 01:01:47,875
about watching her transformation
in that audition scene
1089
01:01:48,042 --> 01:01:50,169
and playing the character so differently,
1090
01:01:50,336 --> 01:01:53,464
So get out of here before...
1091
01:01:53,631 --> 01:01:55,007
Reinterpreting the scene,
1092
01:01:55,174 --> 01:01:58,010
giving us another window
into what that scene could be.
1093
01:01:58,177 --> 01:01:59,178
Before what?
1094
01:02:00,679 --> 01:02:04,975
This is like the crystallization to me
of Lynch's work in a nutshell,
1095
01:02:05,142 --> 01:02:07,978
which is this idea of multiple realities,
1096
01:02:08,145 --> 01:02:12,524
but also multiple interpretations
as the rule, not the exception.
1097
01:02:12,691 --> 01:02:15,194
A multiplicity of possibilities.
1098
01:02:17,905 --> 01:02:19,198
Before...
1099
01:02:20,491 --> 01:02:22,243
I kill you.
1100
01:02:22,868 --> 01:02:26,789
It's thrilling to see her become an actor
we had no idea she could be
1101
01:02:26,956 --> 01:02:30,376
after watching a kind of
meta performance by Naomi Watts
1102
01:02:30,918 --> 01:02:34,713
that's almost frustratingly naive,
and, "golly gee, gee whiz,"
1103
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:36,173
in a way that makes it hard
1104
01:02:36,340 --> 01:02:39,093
to be in a real kind of relationship
to her as a character.
1105
01:02:39,885 --> 01:02:42,513
And then to see
this unexpected complexity.
1106
01:02:43,055 --> 01:02:47,017
That, to me, felt like
a central instinct in Lynch's work.
1107
01:02:47,184 --> 01:02:50,062
To say that we quite literally
contain multitudes,
1108
01:02:50,562 --> 01:02:54,483
and there is so much more to all of us
than we give ourselves credit for.
1109
01:02:54,650 --> 01:02:57,027
And part of how I think that relates to Oz
1110
01:02:57,194 --> 01:03:00,489
are those moments of Dorothy
having to summon the courage,
1111
01:03:00,656 --> 01:03:03,450
the abject despair of never getting home,
1112
01:03:03,617 --> 01:03:07,830
having to be present in Oz
even though she may never leave Oz.
1113
01:03:07,997 --> 01:03:09,540
I'm frightened.
1114
01:03:10,582 --> 01:03:13,419
I'm frightened, Auntie Em. I'm frightened!
1115
01:03:14,795 --> 01:03:17,381
And at least she has
the Tin Man and Scarecrow
1116
01:03:17,548 --> 01:03:19,675
and the Cowardly Lion as friends,
1117
01:03:19,842 --> 01:03:22,636
There's something about that journey
that is so unexpected
1118
01:03:22,803 --> 01:03:24,555
that she becomes such a hero,
1119
01:03:24,722 --> 01:03:26,640
this little girl, Dorothy Gale,
1120
01:03:27,266 --> 01:03:30,436
that I just feel like that must be
something that, in the best way,
1121
01:03:30,602 --> 01:03:35,941
infected a young David Lynch's mind
and allowed him or inspired him
1122
01:03:36,108 --> 01:03:39,111
to create characters
with as much possibility in them.
1123
01:03:39,653 --> 01:03:42,197
Come on, it'll be just like in the movies.
1124
01:03:42,364 --> 01:03:44,283
We'll pretend to be someone else.
1125
01:03:44,992 --> 01:03:48,078
As much as Mulholland Drive
devastated me when I first saw it,
1126
01:03:48,245 --> 01:03:50,831
and as much as it frightened me,
like, to my core--
1127
01:03:50,998 --> 01:03:52,291
That movie shook me.
1128
01:03:52,458 --> 01:03:55,127
--I now see
a tremendous amount of hope in it,
1129
01:03:55,294 --> 01:03:58,464
because I feel like Lynch
is giving us, the audience,
1130
01:03:58,630 --> 01:04:01,467
access to the best versions
of those characters.
1131
01:04:01,633 --> 01:04:05,179
The most interesting,
the most inspiring, the most hopeful.
1132
01:04:06,096 --> 01:04:07,973
You look like someone else.
1133
01:04:08,682 --> 01:04:13,020
He's actually kind of an optimist to me,
and that movie proves it in my mind,
1134
01:04:13,729 --> 01:04:17,107
As dark as it is,
I see it as a very optimistic film.
1135
01:04:17,941 --> 01:04:20,110
I really think he identifies with Dorothy.
1136
01:04:20,611 --> 01:04:21,779
But who knows?
1137
01:04:21,945 --> 01:04:25,407
He might be somebody who says,
"And I have the Witch in me too.
1138
01:04:26,158 --> 01:04:29,745
And I have the Cowardly Lion,
and I have the sham Wizard."
1139
01:04:30,496 --> 01:04:33,123
I think he has
all of those characters in him.
1140
01:04:33,624 --> 01:04:36,001
We all do, I think is what he's saying.
1141
01:04:36,168 --> 01:04:37,795
We have all of them in us.
1142
01:04:46,011 --> 01:04:48,097
♪♪ [haunting ambient]
1143
01:04:57,523 --> 01:05:00,442
[narrator] There are plenty of movies
that follow the hero's journey
1144
01:05:00,609 --> 01:05:02,152
as outlined by Joseph Campbell,
1145
01:05:02,319 --> 01:05:04,363
but a number of them more specifically
1146
01:05:04,530 --> 01:05:08,659
seem to follow the formula
and the vernacular of The Wizard of Oz.
1147
01:05:10,202 --> 01:05:11,703
♪♪ [dramatic orchestral]
1148
01:05:14,164 --> 01:05:16,458
I'm melting! Melting!
1149
01:05:16,625 --> 01:05:18,502
[screaming]
1150
01:05:19,837 --> 01:05:24,133
I don't care about money.
I'm pulling back the curtain.
1151
01:05:24,299 --> 01:05:25,843
I wanna meet the Wizard.
1152
01:05:26,009 --> 01:05:27,845
I want your dog.
1153
01:05:28,470 --> 01:05:29,596
[whines]
1154
01:05:31,265 --> 01:05:32,099
Barney?
1155
01:05:33,350 --> 01:05:34,852
Give him to me.
1156
01:05:35,394 --> 01:05:38,355
That film touches almost
every single genre we can think of.
1157
01:05:38,522 --> 01:05:39,940
It has adventure.
1158
01:05:40,441 --> 01:05:42,734
Seize them! Seize them!
1159
01:05:43,277 --> 01:05:44,278
Musical,
1160
01:05:44,445 --> 01:05:45,612
♪♪ [orchestral]
1161
01:05:47,739 --> 01:05:48,615
Comedy.
1162
01:05:52,995 --> 01:05:54,121
Drama.
1163
01:05:57,624 --> 01:05:58,792
Science fiction.
1164
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:02,921
Even horror.
1165
01:06:08,469 --> 01:06:09,595
Take The Big Lebowski,
1166
01:06:09,761 --> 01:06:12,764
which is this extraordinarily
Wizard of Oz-ian tale.
1167
01:06:12,931 --> 01:06:15,350
It's a comedy, and it's a stoner comedy,
1168
01:06:15,517 --> 01:06:18,103
Here, you have an unwilling protagonist,
like Dorothy..,
1169
01:06:20,063 --> 01:06:22,774
swept up in a whirlwind
that he doesn't understand...
1170
01:06:22,941 --> 01:06:24,568
Where's the money, Lebowski?
1171
01:06:25,652 --> 01:06:28,280
.., into a different world
that is so much deeper and darker
1172
01:06:28,447 --> 01:06:30,824
than his relatively simple
pedestrian existence.
1173
01:06:31,366 --> 01:06:35,120
And he meets a cast of magical characters
that give him secret knowledge
1174
01:06:35,287 --> 01:06:39,208
that, interestingly, a lot of them had
all along inside themselves,
1175
01:06:39,374 --> 01:06:41,001
Sometimes you eat the bar, and...
1176
01:06:42,503 --> 01:06:43,629
Much obliged.
1177
01:06:44,588 --> 01:06:48,383
...sometimes, the bar, well, he eats you.
1178
01:06:49,551 --> 01:06:52,638
And at the other end
of the genre spectrum,
1179
01:06:52,804 --> 01:06:56,391
we've got films in the realm of sci-fi
and horror and dark fantasy.
1180
01:06:56,558 --> 01:06:57,851
Movies like Suspiria,
1181
01:06:58,018 --> 01:07:00,604
which actually shares a lot
with The Wizard of Oz.
1182
01:07:00,771 --> 01:07:03,857
Here, we have a young woman going
on a journey into a surreal, bizarre,
1183
01:07:04,024 --> 01:07:05,609
even Technicolor world...
1184
01:07:07,110 --> 01:07:08,695
meeting several people along the way
1185
01:07:08,862 --> 01:07:10,656
who will shape her
for the rest of her life.
1186
01:07:10,822 --> 01:07:11,990
[man] Witch!
1187
01:07:17,162 --> 01:07:20,874
Guillermo del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth
and The Devil's Backbone
1188
01:07:21,041 --> 01:07:23,168
also share similarities
with The Wizard of Oz.
1189
01:07:23,335 --> 01:07:24,795
[in Spanish] When I was a kid...
1190
01:07:26,380 --> 01:07:27,506
I'd stand here...
1191
01:07:28,298 --> 01:07:29,716
in the middle of the yard...
1192
01:07:30,217 --> 01:07:32,886
and I'd look up at the sky.
1193
01:07:34,972 --> 01:07:36,640
I dreamed of getting out of here.
1194
01:07:37,724 --> 01:07:40,852
Here, we have young people
going into these dreamlike scenarios,
1195
01:07:41,019 --> 01:07:43,647
meeting a series
of interesting entities that shape them,
1196
01:07:43,814 --> 01:07:46,692
and coming out on the other side
changed in some way.
1197
01:07:46,858 --> 01:07:50,320
[in Spanish] You have spilled your own
blood rather than that of an innocent.
1198
01:07:51,113 --> 01:07:54,908
That was the final task,
and the most important.
1199
01:07:55,075 --> 01:07:58,036
Martin Scorsese's After Hours
feels like The Wizard of Oz.
1200
01:07:58,704 --> 01:08:01,248
Would you give me a break?
I just wanna go home.
1201
01:08:01,415 --> 01:08:05,210
I've gotta get over to that bar,
get my keys so I can get home.
1202
01:08:05,836 --> 01:08:08,130
Where do you live? Can you take me...?
1203
01:08:08,297 --> 01:08:09,423
Can you take me home?
1204
01:08:09,590 --> 01:08:14,094
And Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore
is The Wizard of Oz in so many ways,
1205
01:08:14,261 --> 01:08:16,847
We open on
her sepia-tone childhood in Monterey,
1206
01:08:17,014 --> 01:08:19,391
and the entire movie
is about going back home,
1207
01:08:20,017 --> 01:08:21,810
She eventually decides to stay in Tucson,
1208
01:08:21,977 --> 01:08:24,688
but the final shot tells us
she found her new home,
1209
01:08:24,855 --> 01:08:25,731
so she is home.
1210
01:08:26,815 --> 01:08:30,611
Even a movie like Apocalypse Now
has similarities to The Wizard of Oz.
1211
01:08:31,445 --> 01:08:34,406
But there's no home
in Apocalypse Now when he starts in--
1212
01:08:34,573 --> 01:08:35,324
[Willard] Saigon.
1213
01:08:37,534 --> 01:08:38,577
Shit,
1214
01:08:40,746 --> 01:08:42,581
I'm still only in Saigon,
1215
01:08:43,332 --> 01:08:45,459
[narrator] And he really
doesn't wanna be there,
1216
01:08:45,626 --> 01:08:48,462
so in a sense,
he's started in Oz after the tornado.
1217
01:08:49,546 --> 01:08:53,050
But he goes on a mystical,
psychedelic journey in a foreign land,
1218
01:08:53,759 --> 01:08:56,970
meeting a whole bunch of strange people
that helped him along the way...
1219
01:09:01,391 --> 01:09:04,061
in order to find someone
who is basically a wizard.
1220
01:09:04,770 --> 01:09:05,937
Could we, uh...
1221
01:09:07,064 --> 01:09:08,607
talk to Colonel Kurtz?
1222
01:09:08,774 --> 01:09:11,652
Hey, man, you don't talk to the colonel.
1223
01:09:12,944 --> 01:09:14,571
Well, you listen to him.
1224
01:09:15,197 --> 01:09:18,325
There's this monolithic, powerful,
all-knowing Colonel Kurtz
1225
01:09:18,492 --> 01:09:21,703
that everyone speaks about
with reverence and fear,
1226
01:09:22,329 --> 01:09:24,998
and he turns out to be
both the Wizard and the Witch,
1227
01:09:27,709 --> 01:09:29,169
And then there's David Lynch,
1228
01:09:29,336 --> 01:09:34,800
who is, by far, the king of weaving
the visual and auditory language,
1229
01:09:35,884 --> 01:09:39,930
the thematic and story language
of The Wizard of Oz, into his own work.
1230
01:09:40,972 --> 01:09:42,015
Oh!
1231
01:09:42,766 --> 01:09:45,686
I had the strangest dream.
1232
01:09:48,563 --> 01:09:49,648
And you were there.
1233
01:09:50,816 --> 01:09:51,983
And you.
1234
01:09:52,776 --> 01:09:53,777
And you.
1235
01:09:54,611 --> 01:09:57,572
Taking Twin Peaks Season 3, for example,
1236
01:09:57,739 --> 01:10:01,368
he has some spectacular,
very modern visual effects,
1237
01:10:01,535 --> 01:10:03,412
But he also uses
a lot of the same techniques
1238
01:10:03,578 --> 01:10:05,205
used in The Wizard of Oz:
1239
01:10:05,372 --> 01:10:08,792
Old-school opacity transitioning
that no one uses anymore,
1240
01:10:08,959 --> 01:10:13,922
unless you were trying to make it
look like it was made in the 1950s.
1241
01:10:14,798 --> 01:10:17,426
He knows he's using an old-school effect.
1242
01:10:17,592 --> 01:10:21,138
This is David Lynch showing us
where the smoke machine is.
1243
01:10:21,638 --> 01:10:22,931
He is the Wizard,
1244
01:10:23,473 --> 01:10:26,518
Why didn't you wanna talk about Judy?
1245
01:10:28,228 --> 01:10:29,604
Who is Judy?
1246
01:10:30,605 --> 01:10:32,983
Does Judy want something from me?
1247
01:10:34,735 --> 01:10:37,612
[tinny voice] Why don't you
ask Judy yourself?
1248
01:10:39,072 --> 01:10:41,366
Let me write it down for you.
1249
01:10:43,952 --> 01:10:45,912
[narrator] You could say
that The Wizard of Oz
1250
01:10:46,079 --> 01:10:47,789
has been a more powerful tool for Lynch
1251
01:10:47,956 --> 01:10:50,709
in making populist,
surrealist entertainment
1252
01:10:50,876 --> 01:10:52,335
than Jesus Christ has been
1253
01:10:52,502 --> 01:10:57,007
for other surrealist filmmakers
like Jodorowsky or Buñuel,
1254
01:10:57,174 --> 01:10:58,967
[yelling]
1255
01:11:05,599 --> 01:11:07,309
♪♪ [classical]
1256
01:11:12,981 --> 01:11:15,275
But he is way too gifted
of an artist and a filmmaker
1257
01:11:15,442 --> 01:11:17,235
to just regurgitate The Wizard of Oz.
1258
01:11:17,402 --> 01:11:19,946
What he's doing is
he's taking what we all know about it
1259
01:11:20,113 --> 01:11:24,201
and breaking it down into
its component parts and remixing them,
1260
01:11:24,367 --> 01:11:27,662
either buried deep down beneath
in visuals and themes and motifs
1261
01:11:27,829 --> 01:11:31,833
in basically all of his movies,
or right at the surface in Wild at Heart.
1262
01:11:32,417 --> 01:11:38,757
Perhaps you might even picture Toto
from The Wizard of Oz.
1263
01:11:39,424 --> 01:11:44,930
In my mind, it honors this great film,
The Wizard of Oz,
1264
01:11:45,096 --> 01:11:51,144
which is a film that's caused people
to dream now for decades.
1265
01:11:51,770 --> 01:11:56,399
And there's something about
The Wizard of Oz that's cosmic,
1266
01:11:56,900 --> 01:12:03,323
and it talks to human beings
in a deep way.
1267
01:12:05,116 --> 01:12:08,578
What's interesting about Wild at Heart
is that The Wizard of Oz exists
1268
01:12:08,745 --> 01:12:12,290
in the canon
and the mythology of its world,
1269
01:12:13,583 --> 01:12:15,293
It's too bad he couldn't...
1270
01:12:17,838 --> 01:12:20,090
visit that old Wizard of Oz and...
1271
01:12:23,093 --> 01:12:24,928
get some good advice.
1272
01:12:25,095 --> 01:12:28,014
There are no Munchkins
in the movie now, huh?
1273
01:12:28,682 --> 01:12:31,393
- [woman] I don't think so.
- Yeah, there was a Munchkin.
1274
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:33,436
Um... [chuckles]
1275
01:12:33,603 --> 01:12:34,938
There was a Munchkin.
1276
01:12:35,856 --> 01:12:40,402
The characters in Wild at Heart
have seen the movie The Wizard of Oz.
1277
01:12:40,902 --> 01:12:42,529
You ever think something...
1278
01:12:44,698 --> 01:12:46,283
and hear a wind...
1279
01:12:47,826 --> 01:12:51,079
and see the Wicked Witch of the East
coming flying in?
1280
01:12:53,498 --> 01:12:57,377
And they use it as the ideal of
their own lives that they can never get.
1281
01:12:57,544 --> 01:12:58,670
That kind of money...
1282
01:13:00,130 --> 01:13:03,800
will get us a long way down
that Yellow Brick Road.
1283
01:13:05,010 --> 01:13:07,095
Well, I know it ain't
exactly Emerald City.
1284
01:13:07,721 --> 01:13:09,806
They constantly referenced that movie,
1285
01:13:09,973 --> 01:13:14,519
and their idea of the comfort of home
is the idyllic movie, The Wizard of Oz.
1286
01:13:15,061 --> 01:13:18,189
[Lula] Oh, I wish I was somewhere
over that rainbow.
1287
01:13:20,317 --> 01:13:21,860
It's just shit!
1288
01:13:22,485 --> 01:13:26,072
There's this moment where Laura Dern
was just assaulted by Willem Dafoe,
1289
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:29,784
and she clicks
her red heels together three times,
1290
01:13:29,951 --> 01:13:33,246
You can't miss it, and everyone knows
what should happen next.
1291
01:13:33,830 --> 01:13:37,000
But the scene cuts, and nothing happens,
1292
01:13:37,167 --> 01:13:38,543
She's still in Oz,
1293
01:13:39,127 --> 01:13:41,421
And it's because he's not retelling
The Wizard of Oz.
1294
01:13:41,588 --> 01:13:44,758
He's using the cultural real estate
that The Wizard of Oz occupies
1295
01:13:44,925 --> 01:13:47,886
in our public consciousness to say
1296
01:13:48,053 --> 01:13:51,181
in these people's cases,
there just is no home,
1297
01:13:51,806 --> 01:13:54,476
All these virtues that
Dorothy collects in The Wizard of Oz
1298
01:13:54,643 --> 01:13:57,270
are vices
that these characters are collecting.
1299
01:13:57,771 --> 01:14:00,273
And these vices are going to
keep them where they are,
1300
01:14:00,440 --> 01:14:02,400
and they need to find
a way to live with that
1301
01:14:02,567 --> 01:14:03,860
or find some other way out.
1302
01:14:04,402 --> 01:14:08,531
Honey, you ain't gonna begin worrying now
over what's bad for you.
1303
01:14:08,698 --> 01:14:11,534
I mean, here you are crossing state lines
1304
01:14:11,701 --> 01:14:14,287
with an A-number-one certified murderer.
1305
01:14:15,497 --> 01:14:17,666
Manslaughterer, honey, not murderer.
1306
01:14:17,832 --> 01:14:19,376
Don't exaggerate.
1307
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:22,504
There's this strange
cultural currency to using
1308
01:14:22,671 --> 01:14:26,716
certain almost universally known
images of 1950s celebrities
1309
01:14:26,883 --> 01:14:29,219
that have become Americana.
1310
01:14:29,386 --> 01:14:31,429
In almost every movie
that David Lynch has made,
1311
01:14:31,596 --> 01:14:34,224
there's some expression
of this Americana in it.
1312
01:14:37,894 --> 01:14:40,647
We've got Nicolas Cage
basically playing Elvis in Wild at Heart.
1313
01:14:40,814 --> 01:14:43,525
Let's go out
into the crazy world of New Orleans.
1314
01:14:45,110 --> 01:14:48,279
Go to Ronnie's
and get a fried banana sandwich.
1315
01:14:51,199 --> 01:14:52,575
Okay.
1316
01:14:53,201 --> 01:14:56,037
Almost every character in Blue Velvet
is a 1950s image.
1317
01:14:56,204 --> 01:14:58,957
Bad guys wear leather jackets
and hang out in nightclubs.
1318
01:14:59,124 --> 01:15:01,042
- What kind of beer do you like?
- Heineken.
1319
01:15:01,209 --> 01:15:03,628
Heineken? Fuck that shit!
1320
01:15:04,212 --> 01:15:05,588
Pabst Blue Ribbon!
1321
01:15:06,381 --> 01:15:09,551
In Twin Peaks,
James literally looks like James Dean,
1322
01:15:09,718 --> 01:15:12,846
and Audrey Horne
looks a lot like a teenage Ava Gardner.
1323
01:15:19,519 --> 01:15:21,312
And Michael Cera in Twin Peaks
1324
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:23,857
is dressed exactly like Marlon Brando
in The Wild One.
1325
01:15:25,233 --> 01:15:28,445
And Dale Cooper
is like a 1950s noir detective,
1326
01:15:28,611 --> 01:15:31,239
and a very idealized version of one.
1327
01:15:31,990 --> 01:15:34,492
He is flawless,
almost to the point of satire.
1328
01:15:37,454 --> 01:15:38,580
[whistle toots]
1329
01:15:39,497 --> 01:15:43,126
There's this strong connection
to film noir archetypes in his movies,
1330
01:15:43,293 --> 01:15:46,087
which is interesting
because a very, very early noir,
1331
01:15:46,254 --> 01:15:50,967
I Wake up Screaming, obsessively uses
the song "Over the Rainbow" as a motif.
1332
01:15:51,134 --> 01:15:54,262
[orchestral renditions of
"Somewhere Over the Rainbow" playing]
1333
01:16:09,486 --> 01:16:11,488
So there's a very established connection
1334
01:16:11,654 --> 01:16:14,491
between The Wizard of Oz
and the origins of noir.
1335
01:16:14,657 --> 01:16:15,533
Robin, I--
1336
01:16:17,452 --> 01:16:20,955
Why, who on earth is that beautiful girl?
1337
01:16:21,873 --> 01:16:25,752
David Lynch will often
style characters as pinup girls,
1338
01:16:26,252 --> 01:16:28,630
like a Marilyn Monroe-type figure,
1339
01:16:28,797 --> 01:16:31,508
or a Bettie Page-type figure,
or a Jayne Mansfield.
1340
01:16:32,050 --> 01:16:33,843
There's a power to these types of images,
1341
01:16:34,010 --> 01:16:36,513
and that they're almost
collective fetishes,
1342
01:16:37,305 --> 01:16:39,724
Yes, these are '50s Americana archetypes,
1343
01:16:39,891 --> 01:16:43,019
but they're also sex icons, all of them,
1344
01:16:43,186 --> 01:16:44,854
and he's making a facsimile of them
1345
01:16:45,021 --> 01:16:48,650
in order to take us back
and prey on our nostalgia.
1346
01:16:49,359 --> 01:16:52,654
And it also makes his movies
just very enjoyable to watch.
1347
01:16:53,321 --> 01:16:57,033
So he's not just a surrealist.
He's a populist surrealist.
1348
01:17:03,331 --> 01:17:06,334
But he always shows you
the dark underbelly of that,
1349
01:17:06,501 --> 01:17:09,003
and it seems like
it's an expression of this idea
1350
01:17:09,170 --> 01:17:11,506
that the 1950s
were a really exciting time,
1351
01:17:11,673 --> 01:17:13,675
and it must have felt good
for a lot of people.
1352
01:17:13,842 --> 01:17:15,927
But there was obviously
a subset of society
1353
01:17:16,094 --> 01:17:17,762
for whom it wasn't great,
1354
01:17:18,513 --> 01:17:21,683
and the neglect of that
leads to a certain kind of horror.
1355
01:17:21,850 --> 01:17:25,019
And it's always ready to come out
and break through the surface,
1356
01:17:31,442 --> 01:17:33,361
David Lynch
isn't holding up these two things
1357
01:17:33,528 --> 01:17:35,780
and saying,
"Hey, look how different they are."
1358
01:17:35,947 --> 01:17:37,615
He's way more principled than that.
1359
01:17:37,782 --> 01:17:41,119
He's holding up these things
and saying that the badness
1360
01:17:41,286 --> 01:17:43,538
is actually what gives the good meaning,
1361
01:17:44,831 --> 01:17:48,042
And that would be why
he has these themes of doppelgängers,
1362
01:17:48,209 --> 01:17:49,669
why he has parallel realities,
1363
01:17:49,836 --> 01:17:53,047
why he has people with the same name
but completely opposite personalities.
1364
01:17:53,214 --> 01:17:54,132
Is that you?
1365
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:56,885
Are both of them you?
1366
01:17:57,427 --> 01:18:00,346
The only things in life for him
that don't have an evil doppelgänger
1367
01:18:00,513 --> 01:18:02,390
are probably coffee and meditation.
1368
01:18:02,557 --> 01:18:03,892
Coffee.
1369
01:18:05,351 --> 01:18:06,352
- Agent Cooper.
- Shelly.
1370
01:18:06,519 --> 01:18:09,189
I'll let you in on a secret.
It's called Georgia Coffee.
1371
01:18:09,355 --> 01:18:11,649
It comes in a can, tastes as good and rich
1372
01:18:11,816 --> 01:18:13,568
- as any coffee I've ever had.
- It's true.
1373
01:18:16,321 --> 01:18:18,865
Even cigarettes in Wild at Heart
are these constant thread,
1374
01:18:19,032 --> 01:18:21,534
and everybody knows
David Lynch loves cigarettes.
1375
01:18:26,206 --> 01:18:27,040
Gordon.
1376
01:18:38,426 --> 01:18:39,344
Whoa.
1377
01:18:40,261 --> 01:18:43,014
The Wizard of Oz
treats polarization in the same way,
1378
01:18:43,181 --> 01:18:46,267
There's a black-and-white Kansas
and a Technicolor Oz.
1379
01:18:46,434 --> 01:18:49,145
There's the good witch and the bad witch.
1380
01:18:49,646 --> 01:18:52,607
One is a dream, and one is reality.
1381
01:18:53,107 --> 01:18:55,693
And they all have
their counterparts in both worlds,
1382
01:18:56,236 --> 01:18:58,821
And that's exactly
what David Lynch keeps on doing.
1383
01:18:58,988 --> 01:19:02,408
There's not a lot of moral
or thematic muddiness in his movies.
1384
01:19:02,575 --> 01:19:05,912
It's funny to say his movies don't have
an enormous amount of muddiness to them
1385
01:19:06,079 --> 01:19:08,206
because they're so confounding
for most people.
1386
01:19:08,706 --> 01:19:10,917
But what he's doing is,
he's following these things
1387
01:19:11,084 --> 01:19:13,211
through light and dark,
and through a logic
1388
01:19:13,378 --> 01:19:15,338
that actually does make sense.
1389
01:19:16,130 --> 01:19:17,590
You know, Bob is a force of evil,
1390
01:19:17,757 --> 01:19:20,301
but you don't see scenes of Bob
where you empathize with him
1391
01:19:20,468 --> 01:19:22,762
and wonder how he used to be good.
1392
01:19:22,929 --> 01:19:24,722
And Coop is a force of good,
and, you know,
1393
01:19:24,889 --> 01:19:26,933
you don't watch him
get tempted by the dark side,
1394
01:19:27,100 --> 01:19:29,519
unless he's literally possessed by evil,
1395
01:19:30,019 --> 01:19:31,646
They're very complex characters.
1396
01:19:31,813 --> 01:19:33,606
They're extraordinarily deep characters,
1397
01:19:33,773 --> 01:19:36,401
But you never wonder
if you're supposed to be rooting for Coop.
1398
01:19:37,277 --> 01:19:38,528
[thunder crashes]
1399
01:19:39,988 --> 01:19:43,157
You know, what's a MAGA hat?
1400
01:19:43,783 --> 01:19:45,660
A MAGA hat is basically saying,
1401
01:19:45,827 --> 01:19:49,414
"Let's get back to this idea,
this thing that America was
1402
01:19:49,580 --> 01:19:51,124
that's so much better than now."
1403
01:19:51,708 --> 01:19:55,086
I mean, think about where Marty McFly
went to in Back to the Future.
1404
01:19:55,253 --> 01:19:56,546
That 1950s is great.
1405
01:19:56,713 --> 01:19:59,924
Everyone's lives are great,
and everything is fine, more or less.
1406
01:20:00,883 --> 01:20:03,052
But the reality is
that nothing's ever been fine.
1407
01:20:03,219 --> 01:20:04,679
It was just fine for a few people,
1408
01:20:04,846 --> 01:20:06,222
I could run for mayor.
1409
01:20:06,389 --> 01:20:07,974
A colored mayor? That'll be the day.
1410
01:20:08,141 --> 01:20:10,393
You wait and see, Mr. Carruthers.
I will be mayor.
1411
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:12,729
I'll be the most powerful man
in Hill Valley.
1412
01:20:12,895 --> 01:20:14,647
And I'm gonna clean up this town.
1413
01:20:14,814 --> 01:20:17,150
Good. You can start by sweeping the floor.
1414
01:20:18,151 --> 01:20:20,486
I think that David Lynch,
who grow up in Boise, Idaho,
1415
01:20:20,653 --> 01:20:22,488
then eventually moved around a lot.,.
1416
01:20:22,989 --> 01:20:26,492
You know, one of the places he ended up
was low-income Philadelphia.
1417
01:20:26,659 --> 01:20:29,037
And there, it's where he sees
the flip side of America,
1418
01:20:29,203 --> 01:20:31,664
what's beneath
the artificial sheen of it all.
1419
01:20:32,290 --> 01:20:33,708
[Lynch] I lived in Philadelphia,
1420
01:20:33,875 --> 01:20:37,962
and I call Eraserhead
the true Philadelphia Story.
1421
01:20:39,672 --> 01:20:44,427
♪ Someday, over the rainbow ♪
1422
01:20:44,594 --> 01:20:46,804
♪ Way up high ♪
1423
01:20:46,971 --> 01:20:48,806
- What is this, Connor?
- Easy, old man.
1424
01:20:48,973 --> 01:20:51,642
[narrator] And I don't think
that his realization was,
1425
01:20:51,809 --> 01:20:55,313
"Oh, man, I was fooled,
The '50s weren't as great as I thought."
1426
01:20:55,480 --> 01:20:57,148
I think his realization is,
1427
01:20:57,315 --> 01:20:59,776
the beautiful white picket fence,
and Leave it to Beaver,
1428
01:20:59,942 --> 01:21:01,861
and pinup-girl vision of the '50s,
1429
01:21:02,028 --> 01:21:04,989
it only existed
because of this horrible darkness
1430
01:21:05,156 --> 01:21:08,826
that I'm now able to see,
and it's built on the shoulders of it,
1431
01:21:08,993 --> 01:21:10,912
So there's America,
1432
01:21:11,079 --> 01:21:13,581
and then
there's a doppelgänger of America,
1433
01:21:13,748 --> 01:21:17,001
and the American dream was,
in fact, an American myth,
1434
01:21:17,168 --> 01:21:20,838
Or perhaps, the American dream
walks hand-in-hand with the American myth.
1435
01:21:22,423 --> 01:21:26,511
♪ But in my heart there'll always be... ♪
1436
01:21:27,428 --> 01:21:30,848
The way Lynch usually expresses
showing the underbelly of America
1437
01:21:31,015 --> 01:21:33,309
is often through the way
women are treated
1438
01:21:33,476 --> 01:21:36,396
by the side of society
that is the romanticized portion.
1439
01:21:36,562 --> 01:21:38,481
It's the portion
that's supposed to be good,
1440
01:21:38,648 --> 01:21:41,317
Stay away from me.
1441
01:21:41,484 --> 01:21:43,945
Laura Palmer's dad is a 1950s ideal,
1442
01:21:44,112 --> 01:21:46,614
but he's obviously done
awful things to her,
1443
01:21:48,616 --> 01:21:50,076
And in Blue Velvet, you know,
1444
01:21:50,243 --> 01:21:53,079
Jeffrey watches
Dorothy Vallens from a closet...
1445
01:21:53,246 --> 01:21:54,914
- Hello, baby.
- Shut up!
1446
01:21:55,415 --> 01:21:57,959
It's "Daddy," you shithead!
Where's my bourbon?
1447
01:21:58,126 --> 01:22:01,003
.., and witnesses
how she's treated for a very long time.
1448
01:22:02,046 --> 01:22:04,132
Don't you fucking look at me!
1449
01:22:05,133 --> 01:22:07,677
Really, that story is about him
observing how this woman
1450
01:22:07,844 --> 01:22:10,096
has been destroyed
by the society he lives in,
1451
01:22:10,263 --> 01:22:12,890
and he had no idea
that it was destroying women.
1452
01:22:14,308 --> 01:22:16,727
- [siren wailing]
- Hold me! I'm falling!
1453
01:22:16,894 --> 01:22:19,564
I'm falling! Hold me!
1454
01:22:20,231 --> 01:22:22,733
And so there's definitely
a huge parallel there
1455
01:22:22,900 --> 01:22:26,112
to this old-fashioned idea,
and not just of America,
1456
01:22:26,279 --> 01:22:28,239
but of the Golden Age of Hollywood,
1457
01:22:28,406 --> 01:22:30,825
the system in which Lynch is now working.
1458
01:22:30,992 --> 01:22:35,538
From Hollywood, California,
where stars make dreams,
1459
01:22:35,705 --> 01:22:38,207
and dreams make stars.
1460
01:22:38,374 --> 01:22:39,167
[audience cheering]
1461
01:22:39,792 --> 01:22:43,379
The relationship between Judy Garland
and the character of Dorothy
1462
01:22:43,546 --> 01:22:46,132
is highly analogous to heaven and hell,
1463
01:22:46,299 --> 01:22:48,718
the American dream
versus the American myth.
1464
01:22:49,385 --> 01:22:52,138
There's references to characters
named Dorothy in Blue Velvet
1465
01:22:52,305 --> 01:22:53,890
and in The Straight Story.
1466
01:22:54,056 --> 01:22:56,058
There's a Garland Avenue in Lost Highway.
1467
01:22:56,225 --> 01:22:58,811
He lives with his parents,
William and Candace Dayton,
1468
01:22:58,978 --> 01:23:02,023
at 814 Garland Ave,
1469
01:23:03,399 --> 01:23:04,233
Garland,
1470
01:23:05,318 --> 01:23:07,195
did Windom Earle do this to you?
1471
01:23:08,029 --> 01:23:08,905
Garland?
1472
01:23:10,781 --> 01:23:11,782
Oh, no.
1473
01:23:13,951 --> 01:23:15,161
Judy Garland?
1474
01:23:16,329 --> 01:23:19,749
In Twin Peaks,
the idea of Judy comes up all the time,
1475
01:23:19,916 --> 01:23:23,044
especially the question of,
"Who is Judy? Where is Judy?"
1476
01:23:24,378 --> 01:23:25,671
Who is Judy?
1477
01:23:26,464 --> 01:23:29,342
[tinny voice] You've already met Judy.
1478
01:23:30,426 --> 01:23:32,094
What do you mean I've met Judy?
1479
01:23:32,261 --> 01:23:36,182
[narrator] And Judy's never to be found.
Judy seems to represent the grand mystery.
1480
01:23:36,349 --> 01:23:39,810
- Gotcha. Can I say hello to Judy?
- Where's Judy? Sure.
1481
01:23:39,977 --> 01:23:41,896
She's a friend. Hello, Judy.
1482
01:23:42,063 --> 01:23:44,482
You see? That's right.
Now, who is Judy? What does she do?
1483
01:23:44,649 --> 01:23:45,858
She's just a friend.
1484
01:23:46,025 --> 01:23:47,610
Just a friend. Now, you see?
1485
01:23:47,777 --> 01:23:49,612
I mean, is it an open-ended friend?
1486
01:23:49,779 --> 01:23:50,947
Open-ended, yeah.
1487
01:23:51,113 --> 01:23:52,532
[audience cheering]
1488
01:23:55,785 --> 01:23:57,078
Where is Judy now?
1489
01:23:58,621 --> 01:24:00,039
She lives in America.
1490
01:24:01,082 --> 01:24:03,167
She's almost her own doppelgänger
1491
01:24:03,334 --> 01:24:06,462
in the sense that on-screen,
she's this totally wholesome person.
1492
01:24:06,629 --> 01:24:07,505
But in real life,
1493
01:24:07,672 --> 01:24:10,591
Judy Garland was pigeonholed
into that girl-next-door thing.
1494
01:24:10,758 --> 01:24:13,803
She had problems
with alcoholism, pill use.
1495
01:24:14,345 --> 01:24:15,555
She had an eating disorder.
1496
01:24:15,721 --> 01:24:18,933
She died very young,
She was only 47 and almost broke.
1497
01:24:19,976 --> 01:24:26,315
[Garland] I.,. wanted,
and I tried my damnedest.,.
1498
01:24:27,984 --> 01:24:31,404
To believe in the rainbow
that I tried to get over,
1499
01:24:31,571 --> 01:24:32,780
and I couldn't!
1500
01:24:32,947 --> 01:24:34,407
So what?
1501
01:24:36,450 --> 01:24:37,952
So who is Judy?
1502
01:24:38,119 --> 01:24:39,704
It's an unanswerable question.
1503
01:24:40,204 --> 01:24:43,708
It takes an entire lifetime
of Judy Garland to answer.
1504
01:24:45,459 --> 01:24:47,253
♪♪ [dark ambient]
1505
01:25:02,310 --> 01:25:04,145
[wind blowing]
1506
01:25:14,322 --> 01:25:16,657
[David] I grew up
with a black-and-white television,
1507
01:25:16,824 --> 01:25:19,493
and so the formal idea
that Oz was in color
1508
01:25:19,660 --> 01:25:21,787
was lost on me for many, many years,
1509
01:25:22,997 --> 01:25:25,791
The first time I saw it
as it was intended was in 1989,
1510
01:25:25,958 --> 01:25:27,084
and that was revelatory.
1511
01:25:27,251 --> 01:25:31,130
But it also didn't diminish
my previous understanding of the movie.
1512
01:25:31,297 --> 01:25:33,966
Which kind of proves the extent
to which our imagination
1513
01:25:34,133 --> 01:25:37,386
drives our understanding
of the stories that are being told to us.
1514
01:25:37,553 --> 01:25:40,640
[Dorothy] But I feel as if
I've known you all the time,
1515
01:25:40,806 --> 01:25:42,433
but I couldn't have, could I?
1516
01:25:43,059 --> 01:25:46,562
[David] I feel like I must have handled
the 35 millimeter print at some point
1517
01:25:46,729 --> 01:25:48,981
when I was in high school,
when I was a projectionist,
1518
01:25:49,148 --> 01:25:51,734
but I could be misremembering this,
1519
01:25:51,901 --> 01:25:54,278
It's weird that I can't remember
if that was real or not,
1520
01:25:58,074 --> 01:26:00,242
I like to remember things my own way.
1521
01:26:02,119 --> 01:26:03,245
What do you mean by that?
1522
01:26:06,540 --> 01:26:10,503
How I remembered them,
not necessarily the way they happened.
1523
01:26:11,045 --> 01:26:12,380
Looking at it as an adult,
1524
01:26:12,546 --> 01:26:16,133
it feels to me like The Wizard of Oz
might be a Quaalude for the proletariat.
1525
01:26:16,300 --> 01:26:17,927
Poppies.
1526
01:26:18,678 --> 01:26:21,639
Poppies will put them to sleep.
1527
01:26:22,139 --> 01:26:23,849
Everything is just fine the way it is.
1528
01:26:24,016 --> 01:26:25,768
Don't strive for anything more,
1529
01:26:25,935 --> 01:26:30,064
The fact that the movie reverts to sepia
is a very caustic and suppressive move,
1530
01:26:30,981 --> 01:26:32,274
When you look at it this way,
1531
01:26:32,441 --> 01:26:35,945
it's almost as if the pioneering
spirit of America is being subdued.
1532
01:26:36,112 --> 01:26:38,572
They were being told
to stop dreaming, to stop yearning,
1533
01:26:38,739 --> 01:26:40,282
and to put down roots.
1534
01:26:40,866 --> 01:26:43,202
The American dream
is shifting before our eyes,
1535
01:26:43,369 --> 01:26:44,954
from one ideal to the next.
1536
01:26:52,044 --> 01:26:56,841
Every movie is a transportive event,
a cyclone carrying us to another realm.
1537
01:26:57,007 --> 01:26:59,677
[woman] That was... Bobby.
1538
01:27:00,803 --> 01:27:02,763
Uncle Lyle had a...
1539
01:27:04,056 --> 01:27:05,057
A stroke.
1540
01:27:05,224 --> 01:27:06,517
[thunder crashes]
1541
01:27:08,936 --> 01:27:12,356
A movie can take us to another world
and then safely return us home,
1542
01:27:13,232 --> 01:27:16,569
or it can offer a clearer and more vivid
perspective of the world around us.
1543
01:27:17,611 --> 01:27:18,946
Had enough, asshole?
1544
01:27:19,113 --> 01:27:21,574
It can dig into the world at hand.
1545
01:27:21,741 --> 01:27:22,908
Yes, I have.
1546
01:27:24,076 --> 01:27:28,372
And I want to apologize to you gentlemen
for referring to you as homosexuals.
1547
01:27:29,373 --> 01:27:31,250
I also want to thank you, fellas.
1548
01:27:32,418 --> 01:27:35,004
You've taught me
a valuable lesson in life.
1549
01:27:36,255 --> 01:27:39,175
Lula!
1550
01:27:39,341 --> 01:27:41,385
♪♪ [dramatic orchestral]
1551
01:27:44,638 --> 01:27:47,099
Each of these
is a different type of journey,
1552
01:27:47,266 --> 01:27:49,935
but the common ground is,
when we watch a movie,
1553
01:27:50,102 --> 01:27:52,229
an act of transportation is occurring.
1554
01:27:55,858 --> 01:27:58,736
Many children's films
are about making peace with the fact
1555
01:27:58,903 --> 01:28:02,114
that one must find a way
to exist in the world at hand,
1556
01:28:02,281 --> 01:28:04,200
that there is not a better place to go.
1557
01:28:04,366 --> 01:28:05,117
[in Japanese] Mom!
1558
01:28:05,284 --> 01:28:06,035
Dad!
1559
01:28:06,202 --> 01:28:07,828
You shouldn't run off like that, honey.
1560
01:28:07,995 --> 01:28:09,205
You could get in big trouble.
1561
01:28:10,247 --> 01:28:12,666
We see this in Peter Pan with Neverland.
1562
01:28:14,001 --> 01:28:17,046
One of the crucial points of that tale
is discovering that Neverland
1563
01:28:17,213 --> 01:28:21,300
and the very concept of not growing up
isn't all that it's cracked up to be,
1564
01:28:21,842 --> 01:28:23,886
Oh, Mother, we're back.
1565
01:28:24,053 --> 01:28:26,055
- Back?
- [Wendy] All except the Lost Boys.
1566
01:28:26,222 --> 01:28:27,431
They weren't quite ready.
1567
01:28:27,598 --> 01:28:29,266
Lost...? Ready?
1568
01:28:29,433 --> 01:28:32,269
To grow up.
That's why they went back to Neverland.
1569
01:28:32,436 --> 01:28:33,395
Neverland?
1570
01:28:34,021 --> 01:28:37,525
- Yes, but I am.
- Uh, "am"?
1571
01:28:37,691 --> 01:28:39,235
Uh, ready to grow up.
1572
01:28:40,236 --> 01:28:41,946
We see it in Where the Wild Things Are,
1573
01:28:42,112 --> 01:28:44,740
which has a lot in common
with both Wizard of Oz and Peter Pan.
1574
01:28:45,366 --> 01:28:48,327
The idea that there may be a world
in which childhood reigns supreme
1575
01:28:48,494 --> 01:28:50,329
and where rules don't apply.
1576
01:28:50,496 --> 01:28:51,747
Be still!
1577
01:28:57,086 --> 01:28:58,254
Why?
1578
01:28:58,420 --> 01:29:00,798
And yet when Max gets there,
1579
01:29:00,965 --> 01:29:03,676
he finds that there's a reason
we have those rules.
1580
01:29:03,843 --> 01:29:06,178
- Because...
- Why?
1581
01:29:06,345 --> 01:29:09,056
Well, because you can't eat me.
1582
01:29:10,724 --> 01:29:13,561
You didn't know that, so I forgive you.
But never try it again.
1583
01:29:13,727 --> 01:29:17,022
And there's an inevitable disappointment,
especially for a young viewer
1584
01:29:17,189 --> 01:29:19,191
who wants the fantasy to be maintained.
1585
01:29:19,692 --> 01:29:20,943
Come.
1586
01:29:21,110 --> 01:29:22,862
♪♪ [dramatic orchestral]
1587
01:29:25,406 --> 01:29:26,699
Stay.
1588
01:29:28,075 --> 01:29:31,829
I remember feeling this very profoundly
as a child with Beauty and the Beast.
1589
01:29:31,996 --> 01:29:33,163
It's me.
1590
01:29:33,330 --> 01:29:35,040
When the Beast became a human again,
1591
01:29:35,207 --> 01:29:38,002
it was innately disappointing
because now he's just a normal human.
1592
01:29:39,044 --> 01:29:41,338
When I thought about
what Belle's life would be like
1593
01:29:41,505 --> 01:29:44,216
living with this half-human, half-lion
she'd fallen in love with,
1594
01:29:44,383 --> 01:29:46,051
all sorts of practical problems emerged,
1595
01:29:46,218 --> 01:29:48,429
and they got
quite disturbing quite quickly.
1596
01:29:51,098 --> 01:29:52,641
[in French] You stroke me
1597
01:29:54,226 --> 01:29:56,312
the way one strokes an animal.
1598
01:29:56,478 --> 01:29:58,314
But you are an animal.
1599
01:29:58,939 --> 01:30:00,107
And so in some respect,
1600
01:30:00,274 --> 01:30:02,818
these narratives are doing us,
as children, a favor
1601
01:30:02,985 --> 01:30:06,322
in gently revealing that what we perceive
as disappointments and discomforts
1602
01:30:06,488 --> 01:30:07,823
are in fact necessary
1603
01:30:07,990 --> 01:30:11,160
in order to both function in the world
and to appreciate it.
1604
01:30:11,660 --> 01:30:14,955
Oh, but anyway, Toto, we're home. Home.
1605
01:30:15,497 --> 01:30:18,000
They implicitly promise us
that the journey into adulthood
1606
01:30:18,167 --> 01:30:19,919
will not be as bad as we think it is
1607
01:30:20,085 --> 01:30:22,379
and that we don't have to
leave everything behind.
1608
01:30:23,464 --> 01:30:25,883
In Pete's Dragon,
the world that Pete is leaving behind
1609
01:30:26,050 --> 01:30:29,178
when he leaves the forest
is not going to be lost to him forever,
1610
01:30:29,345 --> 01:30:30,512
♪♪ [dramatic orchestral]
1611
01:30:33,515 --> 01:30:35,351
[roars]
1612
01:30:41,315 --> 01:30:43,317
And that is what we have
in Peter Pan as well,
1613
01:30:43,484 --> 01:30:45,903
the idea that growing up
can be just as magical
1614
01:30:46,070 --> 01:30:47,613
as living as a child forever,
1615
01:30:47,780 --> 01:30:50,491
and perhaps more so
because change can occur,
1616
01:30:50,658 --> 01:30:52,451
and change can be a beautiful thing.
1617
01:30:53,494 --> 01:30:57,915
You know, I have the strangest feeling
that I've seen that ship before.
1618
01:30:58,457 --> 01:31:00,084
A long time ago.
1619
01:31:00,876 --> 01:31:02,836
When I was very young.
1620
01:31:03,545 --> 01:31:05,089
George, dear.
1621
01:31:05,255 --> 01:31:06,382
Father.
1622
01:31:12,846 --> 01:31:15,933
Lynch's work definitely functions
across that spectrum
1623
01:31:16,100 --> 01:31:18,560
of the ways in which a film
can transport us.
1624
01:31:23,524 --> 01:31:25,025
His understanding of the quotidian
1625
01:31:25,192 --> 01:31:27,528
is very rooted in the world
in which he grew up.
1626
01:31:28,779 --> 01:31:32,825
The Straight Story, in addition
to literally being about transportation,
1627
01:31:32,992 --> 01:31:35,953
is just as transportive
as Lost Highway or Inland Empire.
1628
01:31:36,453 --> 01:31:38,664
But the world that takes us to
has a verisimilitude
1629
01:31:38,831 --> 01:31:41,208
that is much more graspable, relatable,
1630
01:31:41,375 --> 01:31:43,460
You feel like
you can dig your fingers into it.
1631
01:31:43,627 --> 01:31:46,964
And I think that's why the film,
ultimately, is so gentle.
1632
01:31:47,798 --> 01:31:49,299
They look at the stars at the end,
1633
01:31:49,466 --> 01:31:52,761
and for a moment, you feel that maybe
that's where you're going too.
1634
01:31:52,928 --> 01:31:55,514
But in reality, you know that
you're just sitting on the porch
1635
01:31:55,681 --> 01:31:58,559
in the country, on a planet
that is indeed hurtling through space,
1636
01:31:58,726 --> 01:32:00,769
but still, you're just on the porch,
1637
01:32:00,936 --> 01:32:02,730
and you know what that feels like.
1638
01:32:03,272 --> 01:32:04,481
Whereas in Lost Highway,
1639
01:32:04,648 --> 01:32:06,442
Fred Madison disappears
into a dark hallway,
1640
01:32:06,608 --> 01:32:09,153
and you have no idea
what might be on the other side
1641
01:32:09,319 --> 01:32:11,864
or whether he's going to emerge
in his own house at all.
1642
01:32:12,364 --> 01:32:14,033
You are in a seemingly familiar space,
1643
01:32:14,199 --> 01:32:16,827
but as you move through it,
you lose all bearings on reality.
1644
01:32:18,954 --> 01:32:21,040
I do feel that
what Lynch is doing in his movies
1645
01:32:21,206 --> 01:32:23,042
is indicative of something that occurs
1646
01:32:23,208 --> 01:32:26,003
when we watch The Wizard of Oz
repeatedly over our lives.
1647
01:32:26,795 --> 01:32:28,464
The Wizard of Oz that I see as a child
1648
01:32:28,630 --> 01:32:31,258
is a burst of happiness,
with very little at stake.
1649
01:32:31,425 --> 01:32:33,594
It's a fairy tale with a happy ending,
1650
01:32:33,761 --> 01:32:37,264
I don't understand yet the layers
that can be extrapolated from it,
1651
01:32:37,431 --> 01:32:39,558
partially because
I'm seeing it in black and white,
1652
01:32:39,725 --> 01:32:42,478
but also because I'm a child
and I take it at face value.
1653
01:32:43,020 --> 01:32:46,106
The Wizard of Oz I experience
as a teenager is different.
1654
01:32:46,273 --> 01:32:49,068
I'm a bit more cynical, as teenagers are.
1655
01:32:49,234 --> 01:32:50,402
[Dorothy gasps]
1656
01:32:50,569 --> 01:32:52,237
Dorothy? Who's Dorothy?
1657
01:32:52,404 --> 01:32:55,407
The idea that you return
to this black-and-white world at the end,
1658
01:32:55,574 --> 01:32:58,243
there's something off about it,
and I don't know what it is yet,
1659
01:32:58,410 --> 01:33:00,329
but I can tell it's not quite right.
1660
01:33:02,623 --> 01:33:05,751
Then later in life, I began
to look at it as a piece of history,
1661
01:33:05,918 --> 01:33:10,005
which, with any movie that has endured,
becomes a part of the text of the film,
1662
01:33:10,506 --> 01:33:13,634
At a certain point, you can't separate
the film from its own history,
1663
01:33:13,801 --> 01:33:14,927
and you start to understand
1664
01:33:15,094 --> 01:33:17,721
that the world in which this film was made
was not a happy one.
1665
01:33:18,722 --> 01:33:22,434
At first, it manifests in bits of trivia,
like the exploits of the Munchkins
1666
01:33:22,601 --> 01:33:23,977
in the Culver City Hotel.
1667
01:33:24,144 --> 01:33:26,271
That they had
these Dionysian parties after hours
1668
01:33:26,438 --> 01:33:27,856
and trashed the entire hotel.
1669
01:33:28,398 --> 01:33:31,568
- There was a lot of them.
- Oh, hundreds of thousands.
1670
01:33:31,735 --> 01:33:34,154
And they put them all in one hotel room--
1671
01:33:34,321 --> 01:33:37,491
- Not one room, one hotel, in Culver City.
- Yeah?
1672
01:33:37,658 --> 01:33:42,871
And they got smashed every night,
and they'd pick them up in butterfly nets.
1673
01:33:43,413 --> 01:33:45,249
[audience laughing]
1674
01:33:48,961 --> 01:33:52,005
You hear these stories,
and you laugh, and you think it's funny,
1675
01:33:52,172 --> 01:33:54,049
but it also starts to color
your understanding
1676
01:33:54,216 --> 01:33:55,968
of this seemingly perfect
Technicolor world
1677
01:33:56,135 --> 01:33:58,137
in which nothing is necessarily wrong.
1678
01:33:58,679 --> 01:34:03,475
We thank you very sweetly
for doing it so neatly.
1679
01:34:03,642 --> 01:34:09,314
You've killed her so completely
that we thank you very sweetly.
1680
01:34:10,023 --> 01:34:13,986
The thing that I really got into
was the mythology around the dead person,
1681
01:34:14,153 --> 01:34:17,197
a dead stagehand or a dead Munchkin
who committed suicide
1682
01:34:17,364 --> 01:34:20,659
and is supposedly just barely visible
in the finished film,
1683
01:34:20,826 --> 01:34:22,953
hanging in the background on the set,
1684
01:34:23,495 --> 01:34:24,663
I had the movie on VHS,
1685
01:34:24,830 --> 01:34:26,957
and I spent a lot of time
digging through the tape,
1686
01:34:27,124 --> 01:34:30,210
rewinding it, looking for this evidence
that supposedly existed
1687
01:34:30,377 --> 01:34:32,713
of someone who had hung themselves
on the set of a movie
1688
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:34,882
that was regarded as one of the happiest,
1689
01:34:35,048 --> 01:34:38,468
most influential films for children
of the past 40 or 50 years.
1690
01:34:40,053 --> 01:34:41,972
The idea that a movie could be a bubble,
1691
01:34:42,139 --> 01:34:45,434
that it could be representative
of all that is wholesome in America
1692
01:34:45,601 --> 01:34:49,438
and yet also contain textual evidence
of the darkest depths of human misery,
1693
01:34:49,605 --> 01:34:50,772
really fascinated me.
1694
01:34:51,523 --> 01:34:53,984
It's like the story
in Three Men and a Baby.
1695
01:34:54,151 --> 01:34:56,904
I had heard that there was
supposedly a ghost of a child
1696
01:34:57,070 --> 01:34:59,865
who had died on the sound stage
visible in the finished film,
1697
01:35:00,032 --> 01:35:01,408
and I was determined to find it.
1698
01:35:01,575 --> 01:35:03,744
Where the hell is he,
milking the cows or something?
1699
01:35:03,911 --> 01:35:05,829
I'd heard that this ghost
was visible in a shot
1700
01:35:05,996 --> 01:35:07,789
where the camera panned past a window,
1701
01:35:07,956 --> 01:35:11,043
so I remember renting that tape
and rewinding and fast-forwarding,
1702
01:35:11,210 --> 01:35:14,588
rewinding and fast-forwarding,
hitting pause and play, pause and play,
1703
01:35:14,755 --> 01:35:17,883
looking for any brightly lit scene
that might have a window in it.
1704
01:35:18,050 --> 01:35:20,719
And eventually,
I found what people were talking about,
1705
01:35:20,886 --> 01:35:21,929
and it freaked me out,
1706
01:35:22,095 --> 01:35:24,848
because it looked exactly like
what I feared it might be.
1707
01:35:25,807 --> 01:35:29,269
And I also found it in The Wizard of Oz,
and that freaked me out too.
1708
01:35:29,436 --> 01:35:32,272
Here I am looking at a movie
that I've seen a million times before,
1709
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:34,441
and suddenly,
I'm seeing this secret revelation
1710
01:35:34,608 --> 01:35:38,695
in these 480 lines of NTSC video
that was meant to be hidden,
1711
01:35:38,862 --> 01:35:40,822
that we were meant to be protected from.
1712
01:35:41,365 --> 01:35:42,991
Now, none of this is true, of course.
1713
01:35:43,158 --> 01:35:45,744
It's not actually a dead stagehand
or a dead Munchkin,
1714
01:35:45,911 --> 01:35:47,913
It's a bird or an ostrich or something.
1715
01:35:48,455 --> 01:35:51,416
And the ghost in Three Men and a Baby
is a cardboard cutout.
1716
01:35:52,209 --> 01:35:54,294
But once you set aside
these facetious myths
1717
01:35:54,461 --> 01:35:56,129
about the dark side of The Wizard of Oz,
1718
01:35:56,296 --> 01:35:59,925
you can actually start to unpack
the literal dark side to the film,
1719
01:36:00,092 --> 01:36:02,552
which ranges from the incidents
at the Culver City Hotel
1720
01:36:02,719 --> 01:36:05,097
to Judy Garland's own life story,
1721
01:36:05,264 --> 01:36:08,767
And these things color the movie
in a way that is impossible to unsee,
1722
01:36:09,309 --> 01:36:11,353
It is impossible
to separate the film from them
1723
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:12,980
once you become aware of them.
1724
01:36:13,480 --> 01:36:15,983
And that is what I believe
Lynch is doing with his films.
1725
01:36:16,525 --> 01:36:18,694
This tarnishing of the American dream
1726
01:36:18,860 --> 01:36:21,613
that exists in the text
of The Wizard of Oz,
1727
01:36:21,780 --> 01:36:23,865
I think that's something
that he is obsessed with.
1728
01:36:24,032 --> 01:36:26,618
Here, Scarecrow. Wanna play ball?
1729
01:36:27,786 --> 01:36:29,788
[Wicked Witch cackles]
1730
01:36:29,955 --> 01:36:32,249
It's something that
he must have gone through himself.
1731
01:36:33,208 --> 01:36:34,876
- Here's to Ben!
- Here's to Ben.
1732
01:36:35,544 --> 01:36:37,087
Fuck you, neighbor.
1733
01:36:39,589 --> 01:36:40,841
Here's to Ben.
1734
01:36:43,176 --> 01:36:45,053
- Here's to Ben.
- Be polite!
1735
01:36:47,306 --> 01:36:48,140
Here's to Ben.
1736
01:36:50,934 --> 01:36:52,436
I think Lynch accepts the fact
1737
01:36:52,602 --> 01:36:55,397
that we are, at all times,
surrounded by dark forces.
1738
01:36:56,023 --> 01:36:58,275
But he also believes
that they can be subdued.
1739
01:36:58,900 --> 01:37:01,403
"Goodness will prevail,"
He said this very recently
1740
01:37:01,570 --> 01:37:02,863
in one of his weather reports.
1741
01:37:03,363 --> 01:37:05,824
Great things, beautiful things, are afoot.
1742
01:37:06,658 --> 01:37:10,287
I think this is what he's working towards,
both in his movies, but also in life.
1743
01:37:10,954 --> 01:37:12,331
Right now,
1744
01:37:12,831 --> 01:37:19,212
the thorns of negativity
are making their last desperate stand.
1745
01:37:20,172 --> 01:37:24,426
But soon,
they're gonna wither and fall away.
1746
01:37:25,218 --> 01:37:28,513
They're gonna rot and disappear.
1747
01:37:30,515 --> 01:37:32,309
So don't despair.
1748
01:37:34,144 --> 01:37:38,648
Great times are coming
for the United States
1749
01:37:38,815 --> 01:37:41,401
and for the whole world family.
1750
01:37:43,028 --> 01:37:46,031
I wonder if ingesting these.,.
You call them totems,
1751
01:37:46,198 --> 01:37:49,701
but I would also just call them
symbols or motifs from The Wizard of Oz,
1752
01:37:50,202 --> 01:37:51,620
if he's just regurgitating them
1753
01:37:51,787 --> 01:37:54,956
because they've become embedded
in his own cultural lexicon.
1754
01:38:02,756 --> 01:38:05,467
Well, I tell you... magic.
1755
01:38:06,385 --> 01:38:08,929
As a filmmaker,
that's something I know I certainly do.
1756
01:38:09,096 --> 01:38:11,515
In Pete's Dragon,
I was constantly telling the actors,
1757
01:38:11,681 --> 01:38:14,935
"Look up with a look of wonder.
What are you looking at? Doesn't matter.
1758
01:38:15,102 --> 01:38:17,604
I'll figure it out later.
Just give me that look of wonder."
1759
01:38:17,771 --> 01:38:20,816
And all I'm doing there
is recapitulating the Spielberg face,
1760
01:38:20,982 --> 01:38:23,360
which has become embedded
in my own psyche
1761
01:38:23,527 --> 01:38:25,695
throughout the years of
me loving Spielberg movies
1762
01:38:25,862 --> 01:38:27,614
and understanding
that a certain expression
1763
01:38:27,781 --> 01:38:30,033
could convey a certain feeling
to the audience.
1764
01:38:31,535 --> 01:38:33,620
And if you use it at just the right time,
1765
01:38:33,787 --> 01:38:35,122
you'll achieve an emotional apex
1766
01:38:35,288 --> 01:38:37,624
that is almost universally understood
to mean one thing,
1767
01:38:37,791 --> 01:38:39,376
which, in this case, is wonder,
1768
01:38:40,502 --> 01:38:43,713
So if a character in one of Lynch's movies
is wearing red shoes,
1769
01:38:44,256 --> 01:38:46,341
whether or not
we are consciously processing it,
1770
01:38:46,508 --> 01:38:49,261
there's a symbolism at hand
that goes further than his own work.
1771
01:38:49,761 --> 01:38:53,181
It goes into our own understanding of what
those ruby slippers might have meant
1772
01:38:53,348 --> 01:38:55,267
when we first saw them as a child.
1773
01:38:55,434 --> 01:38:57,018
I'm not going to talk about Judy.
1774
01:38:57,185 --> 01:38:59,896
In fact, we're not going to talk
about Judy at all.
1775
01:39:00,063 --> 01:39:01,731
- We're gonna keep her out of it.
- Gordon.
1776
01:39:01,898 --> 01:39:02,816
I know, Coop.
1777
01:39:03,692 --> 01:39:05,861
The first movie I saw
that wasn't an animated film
1778
01:39:06,027 --> 01:39:07,529
at the movie theater was E.T.
1779
01:39:08,155 --> 01:39:10,949
And I'm still recycling
the things I got from that film.
1780
01:39:12,325 --> 01:39:15,203
The first movie I saw
in a cinema at all was Pinocchio.
1781
01:39:17,414 --> 01:39:20,375
♪ I got no strings to hold me-- ♪
1782
01:39:23,044 --> 01:39:24,546
The journey of Pinocchio,
1783
01:39:25,422 --> 01:39:27,048
the lessons of Pinocchio...
1784
01:39:30,844 --> 01:39:32,512
the darkness of Pinocchio...
1785
01:39:32,679 --> 01:39:33,472
[Lampwick] Mama!
1786
01:39:34,055 --> 01:39:37,184
Mama!
1787
01:39:37,726 --> 01:39:39,227
[braying]
1788
01:39:40,312 --> 01:39:42,814
.., those are things that
I consistently am coming back to.
1789
01:39:57,954 --> 01:39:59,581
Putting together a list of the movies
1790
01:39:59,748 --> 01:40:02,417
that I think had a seismic effect
on the work that I do,
1791
01:40:02,584 --> 01:40:03,752
it's not a long list.
1792
01:40:03,919 --> 01:40:06,421
Those impressions run deep
and are hard to escape.
1793
01:40:07,047 --> 01:40:09,758
And they're so hard to escape
that I think the majority of us,
1794
01:40:09,925 --> 01:40:12,219
as storytellers, don't try to escape them.
1795
01:40:12,385 --> 01:40:14,137
We just dig in deeper.
1796
01:40:14,304 --> 01:40:15,764
And in so much as we're doing that,
1797
01:40:15,931 --> 01:40:19,184
we are making the same movie
and telling the same story repeatedly,
1798
01:40:19,351 --> 01:40:21,311
♪♪ [ambient guitar]
1799
01:40:21,478 --> 01:40:24,022
Lost Highway is a step towards
Mulholland Drive,
1800
01:40:24,189 --> 01:40:26,107
which is a step towards Inland Empire,
1801
01:40:26,274 --> 01:40:28,944
and which is a step towards
Twin Peaks: The Return.
1802
01:40:37,619 --> 01:40:39,120
He's working his way towards that
1803
01:40:39,287 --> 01:40:41,414
in the same way Terrence Malick
was working his way
1804
01:40:41,581 --> 01:40:44,000
towards The Tree of Life
from day one of his career.
1805
01:41:04,771 --> 01:41:07,357
And once you realize
what they're digging towards,
1806
01:41:07,524 --> 01:41:09,693
you can appreciate
their body of work in a new light
1807
01:41:09,859 --> 01:41:11,778
because you understand
what matters to them.
1808
01:41:16,241 --> 01:41:18,952
I love the idea of digging in deeper
and hitting the boundaries
1809
01:41:19,119 --> 01:41:20,912
within the work
we've created for ourselves,
1810
01:41:21,079 --> 01:41:23,623
rather than trying to expand
the horizons around us.
1811
01:41:25,333 --> 01:41:28,545
I like the comfort of knowing that
there's always further inward I can go.
1812
01:41:29,504 --> 01:41:32,966
The themes and images that compel us
are ones we will keep revisiting,
1813
01:41:33,133 --> 01:41:36,428
reexploring, reinvestigating,
recontextualizing, re-everything,
1814
01:41:37,345 --> 01:41:40,849
because they are the things that compel us
to be storytellers in the first place.
1815
01:41:41,474 --> 01:41:44,102
We look to the past
while also looking into the future,
1816
01:41:44,269 --> 01:41:46,396
and that is a valuable thing
for the culture.
1817
01:42:05,707 --> 01:42:07,500
♪♪ [ambient guitar]
1818
01:43:20,198 --> 01:43:23,243
The fact that The Wizard of Oz
and David Lynch can go hand in hand
1819
01:43:23,410 --> 01:43:25,120
and communicate with one another,
1820
01:43:25,286 --> 01:43:27,038
the fact that we can have
this conversation
1821
01:43:27,205 --> 01:43:29,290
about ruby slippers in Twin Peaks,
1822
01:43:29,457 --> 01:43:32,043
is one of the most beautiful things
about this medium.
1823
01:43:34,212 --> 01:43:36,297
[Lynch] We go way, way out,
1824
01:43:36,464 --> 01:43:39,300
and we get lost
in the field of relativity,
1825
01:43:39,884 --> 01:43:42,429
And the trick is to find your way home.
1826
01:43:44,389 --> 01:43:46,891
[Lynch, on set]
You're a beautiful bunch. Here we go.
1827
01:43:47,058 --> 01:43:49,519
On your mark, get set, go!
1828
01:43:49,686 --> 01:43:51,479
- [gasps] Auntie Em!
- Auntie Em?
1829
01:43:51,646 --> 01:43:53,398
I must have been dreaming.
It was horrible.
1830
01:43:53,565 --> 01:43:55,191
We were on Saturdays.
1831
01:43:55,358 --> 01:43:56,901
Andy, you were there.
1832
01:43:57,068 --> 01:43:58,486
The Log Lady was there.
1833
01:43:58,653 --> 01:44:00,488
And the Man From Another Place
was there too.
1834
01:44:00,655 --> 01:44:02,699
Saturdays? That is a bad dream.
1835
01:44:03,575 --> 01:44:05,326
Diane. Thursdays at 9/8 Central.
1836
01:44:05,493 --> 01:44:06,911
There's no place like home.
1837
01:44:09,914 --> 01:44:10,999
[Lynch] Cut it.
1838
01:44:11,166 --> 01:44:12,000
[tail sync beeps]
1839
01:44:12,751 --> 01:44:14,544
♪♪ [ambient guitar]
1840
01:44:21,384 --> 01:44:23,219
[Cooper] There's no place like home.
1841
01:44:24,929 --> 01:44:26,514
There's no place like home.
1842
01:44:29,350 --> 01:44:30,852
There's no place like home.
1843
01:45:21,027 --> 01:45:22,904
♪♪ [ambient guitar]