1 00:00:07,575 --> 00:00:12,011 My name is lisa guerrero. Playboy, in many ways, 2 00:00:12,113 --> 00:00:13,846 is the reason I am where I am today. 3 00:00:13,948 --> 00:00:16,081 Why would you try to take advantage of young women? 4 00:00:16,183 --> 00:00:17,883 You might have seen me on "inside edition." 5 00:00:17,985 --> 00:00:19,852 were you trying to rip me off? 6 00:00:19,954 --> 00:00:24,390 In my early 20s, I was a "playboy" lingerie model. 7 00:00:24,492 --> 00:00:25,891 20 years later, 8 00:00:25,993 --> 00:00:28,994 I became a celebrity cover model for "playboy" 9 00:00:29,096 --> 00:00:31,563 in January of 2006. 10 00:00:31,665 --> 00:00:35,100 This series is about women like me, 11 00:00:35,202 --> 00:00:37,269 who have an association with "playboy" 12 00:00:37,371 --> 00:00:39,705 but are now looking back and questioning 13 00:00:39,807 --> 00:00:41,807 some really serious things. 14 00:00:41,909 --> 00:00:44,109 They've bravely shared their stories, 15 00:00:44,211 --> 00:00:46,545 but the backlash has been swift. 16 00:00:46,647 --> 00:00:51,250 Tonight, they'll share the aftermath of speaking out. 17 00:00:57,725 --> 00:01:00,592 My name is sondra theodore, 18 00:01:00,694 --> 00:01:03,128 and I was hef's girlfriend in the '70s and early '80s 19 00:01:03,230 --> 00:01:05,230 for five years. 20 00:01:05,332 --> 00:01:10,169 It was like living a fairy tale, and...He made me believe it, 21 00:01:10,271 --> 00:01:12,604 and everybody else did, too, 22 00:01:12,706 --> 00:01:14,706 'cause I don't know if they-- they all felt like 23 00:01:14,809 --> 00:01:20,946 it was a fairy tale, too, that we were so in love. 24 00:01:21,048 --> 00:01:25,150 I would have never thought she would speak about hef, 25 00:01:25,252 --> 00:01:28,087 'cause boy, was she loyal to him. 26 00:01:28,189 --> 00:01:33,592 Hefner--he broke me like you would break a horse. 27 00:01:33,694 --> 00:01:36,528 Hef used, uh, cocaine. He had a drawerful of drugs. 28 00:01:36,630 --> 00:01:40,099 The drugs fueled how many people you could get in your bed, 29 00:01:40,201 --> 00:01:42,034 and all of a sudden, there's three of us, 30 00:01:42,136 --> 00:01:44,870 and three girls became five, and it got ridiculous up there. 31 00:01:44,972 --> 00:01:48,307 He twisted my mind so much that 32 00:01:48,409 --> 00:01:52,711 if I loved him, that proved how much I loved him. 33 00:01:52,813 --> 00:01:56,515 And I didn't wanna be with those people. 34 00:01:56,617 --> 00:01:59,351 He scared me a lot at the end, 35 00:01:59,453 --> 00:02:02,254 because you--you couldn't satisfy him. 36 00:02:02,356 --> 00:02:04,556 He had to have more and more and more. 37 00:02:04,658 --> 00:02:08,293 You know, pretty wild. 38 00:02:08,395 --> 00:02:10,863 ♪♪♪ 39 00:02:10,965 --> 00:02:12,965 one of the misconceptions 40 00:02:13,067 --> 00:02:14,967 that some audience members might have... 41 00:02:15,069 --> 00:02:16,135 -Uh-huh. -...Is, you know, 42 00:02:16,237 --> 00:02:17,936 why didn't you tell this story earlier? 43 00:02:18,038 --> 00:02:20,839 Because if I admitted it, 44 00:02:20,941 --> 00:02:23,108 it made my story-- the fairy tale, 45 00:02:23,210 --> 00:02:25,210 turn into a nightmare, and-- 46 00:02:25,312 --> 00:02:28,147 and so many people counted on that fairy tale 47 00:02:28,249 --> 00:02:29,681 like my own children. 48 00:02:30,918 --> 00:02:33,152 Thinking I had been a princess, at thyou know?Res, 49 00:02:33,254 --> 00:02:35,120 when most people break up with somebody... 50 00:02:35,222 --> 00:02:36,522 -Mm-hmm. -...They move on. 51 00:02:37,858 --> 00:02:39,558 They're not involved -thwith their families.In. 52 00:02:39,660 --> 00:02:41,660 They don't go back for reunions. 53 00:02:41,762 --> 00:02:43,262 -Your situation was different. -Yeah. 54 00:02:43,364 --> 00:02:46,865 Because when you and hef broke up, 55 00:02:46,967 --> 00:02:49,201 you continued to be part of his life. 56 00:02:49,303 --> 00:02:51,937 Yeah. You know, I'm not even sure how-- 57 00:02:52,039 --> 00:02:53,872 how I ended up back there, 58 00:02:53,974 --> 00:02:56,175 because it was a painful breakup, but I did. 59 00:02:56,277 --> 00:02:58,944 I ran from the bad by 60 00:02:59,046 --> 00:03:01,213 working really hard at being normal, by getting married. 61 00:03:01,315 --> 00:03:02,814 On my wedding day, I thought, "see? 62 00:03:02,917 --> 00:03:06,218 See? I did it. I was able to get married." 63 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,021 hef came to my wedding, and he gave me my wedding reception, 64 00:03:09,123 --> 00:03:10,522 and the pictures. 65 00:03:10,624 --> 00:03:12,391 -You married one of his friends. -Yeah. 66 00:03:12,493 --> 00:03:13,926 He was in the business. 67 00:03:14,028 --> 00:03:15,260 He ended up handling a lot of the playmates. 68 00:03:15,362 --> 00:03:18,130 He understood me and what I'd been through. 69 00:03:18,232 --> 00:03:20,098 So I didn't have to explain myself, 70 00:03:20,201 --> 00:03:22,234 and for a while, we had a great life. 71 00:03:22,336 --> 00:03:24,803 We have two beautiful children, 72 00:03:24,905 --> 00:03:26,772 and forever grateful for them. 73 00:03:26,874 --> 00:03:29,841 All the girlfriends came back. 74 00:03:29,944 --> 00:03:32,311 We brought our children up for easter. 75 00:03:32,413 --> 00:03:35,914 Easter was very family-oriented, and so that really helped 76 00:03:36,016 --> 00:03:38,016 make everything okay. 77 00:03:38,118 --> 00:03:40,719 It was the only family we knew. 78 00:03:40,821 --> 00:03:43,689 20 years after we'd been together, 79 00:03:43,791 --> 00:03:46,925 if I showed up, hef would make a big show of "here she is" 80 00:03:47,027 --> 00:03:50,862 and the fake, "I'm about ready to cry." 81 00:03:50,965 --> 00:03:52,497 and so you believe it. You get sucked back into it, 82 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,734 and all the bad things-- you think, 83 00:03:55,836 --> 00:03:58,503 "well, everybody else thinks he's okay. He's great. 84 00:03:58,606 --> 00:04:01,807 So maybe it's me." he was that good. 85 00:04:01,909 --> 00:04:05,644 It's charm and smoke and mirrors. 86 00:04:05,746 --> 00:04:07,980 Everybody kept it alive-- that fantasy. 87 00:04:08,082 --> 00:04:09,281 -And you bought into this. -I bought--well, yeah-- 88 00:04:09,383 --> 00:04:11,450 -forever. -Forever. 89 00:04:12,820 --> 00:04:14,152 You brought your kids back. -Fyou kept going back.Rs, 90 00:04:15,856 --> 00:04:18,390 ...With these women. You kept in touch with them until what? 91 00:04:18,492 --> 00:04:20,626 What was the breaking point for you where you said, 92 00:04:20,728 --> 00:04:24,263 "enough. I'm not going to play into this fantasy anymore"? 93 00:04:24,365 --> 00:04:25,864 It was a long journey to get here. 94 00:04:25,966 --> 00:04:28,634 I had nobody to talk to back then. 95 00:04:28,736 --> 00:04:31,036 And then I saw him indoctrinating my daughter. 96 00:04:31,138 --> 00:04:32,704 Wait. What? 97 00:04:32,806 --> 00:04:35,140 Well, he never touched her, or I would've killed him. 98 00:04:35,242 --> 00:04:37,276 But the same thing-- when she would walk in, 99 00:04:37,378 --> 00:04:39,611 he singles her out and made her feel special, 100 00:04:39,713 --> 00:04:41,046 and I'd say to him, "you can't have her. 101 00:04:41,148 --> 00:04:42,514 Don't you touch her." 102 00:04:42,616 --> 00:04:44,650 and, um... 103 00:04:44,752 --> 00:04:48,854 [voice breaking] and... 104 00:04:48,956 --> 00:04:52,090 That's obviously a really difficult thing 105 00:04:52,192 --> 00:04:54,393 for you to remember. -Yeah. Yeah. 106 00:04:54,495 --> 00:04:56,328 [exhales deeply] because if he had touched her, 107 00:04:56,430 --> 00:05:00,766 I would just have died. Um... 108 00:05:00,868 --> 00:05:03,635 You knew more than anybody how dark... 109 00:05:03,737 --> 00:05:06,071 -Yeah. -...Hugh hefner really was... 110 00:05:06,173 --> 00:05:07,439 Yeah. 111 00:05:07,541 --> 00:05:09,641 ...And that there were no boundaries. 112 00:05:09,743 --> 00:05:11,310 -Nowhere. -Would you have been surprised 113 00:05:11,412 --> 00:05:13,412 if he would have tried to lure your daughter in? 114 00:05:13,514 --> 00:05:17,349 He would've. He would've. 115 00:05:17,451 --> 00:05:19,418 One of the things I was interested in asking you about 116 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,721 is how your family reacted to your story, 117 00:05:22,823 --> 00:05:25,157 specifically your daughter. 118 00:05:25,259 --> 00:05:27,125 It was not easy. It was not good. 119 00:05:27,227 --> 00:05:29,995 I'm saying these things, and she's so confused. 120 00:05:30,097 --> 00:05:34,299 We went through many years of I was feeling like an outcast 121 00:05:34,401 --> 00:05:37,169 from my family, because I didn't have the support of them 122 00:05:37,271 --> 00:05:38,870 in the beginning. 123 00:05:38,972 --> 00:05:40,272 They loved me and they wanted to support me, 124 00:05:40,374 --> 00:05:41,873 but they didn't understand it. 125 00:05:41,975 --> 00:05:43,709 They couldn't-- they couldn't go there. 126 00:05:43,811 --> 00:05:46,011 By the end of the documentary, they finally came around, 127 00:05:46,113 --> 00:05:47,612 when their father finally said to my daughter, 128 00:05:47,715 --> 00:05:50,549 "hef wasn't always a good guy. 129 00:05:50,651 --> 00:05:52,217 He did some bad things to your mother," 130 00:05:52,319 --> 00:05:53,985 and that was the moment 131 00:05:54,088 --> 00:05:56,621 she was able to let go of the fairy tale, too, 132 00:05:56,724 --> 00:06:00,492 and that was really a huge, huge breaking point for us, 133 00:06:00,594 --> 00:06:04,129 for my child to accept it. 134 00:06:04,231 --> 00:06:07,833 I wanna ask you about the playboy family. 135 00:06:07,935 --> 00:06:10,268 Can you describe some of the backlash, 136 00:06:10,371 --> 00:06:11,103 once you told the story? -Yeah. 137 00:06:11,205 --> 00:06:12,738 What has that been like? 138 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:14,673 I'm being chewed up and spit up by my own. 139 00:06:14,775 --> 00:06:17,709 Not one of them picked up the phone to ask me why 140 00:06:17,811 --> 00:06:19,644 I was doing this. 141 00:06:19,747 --> 00:06:22,647 They're afraid to be shunned themselves. 142 00:06:22,750 --> 00:06:26,852 I loved a lot of those girls. We were lifetime friends. 143 00:06:26,954 --> 00:06:29,020 And to walk away from them, 144 00:06:29,123 --> 00:06:33,058 self-exile was very hard because that's all I knew. 145 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:34,659 ♪♪♪ 146 00:06:34,762 --> 00:06:38,096 tell me about the first time you went online 147 00:06:38,198 --> 00:06:39,731 and saw the reaction to your story. 148 00:06:39,833 --> 00:06:43,468 Ugh. The warrior in me wanted to just write back 149 00:06:43,570 --> 00:06:45,771 and say, "are you kidding me?" but I, you know, 150 00:06:45,873 --> 00:06:48,039 I just stopped myself. I thought, this will play out, 151 00:06:48,142 --> 00:06:50,142 and hopefully, by the end of the documentary, 152 00:06:50,244 --> 00:06:52,110 they will see the whole picture, 153 00:06:52,212 --> 00:06:54,679 and they'll have to come to their own truth. 154 00:06:54,782 --> 00:06:57,349 And--and they need to respect mine, 155 00:06:57,451 --> 00:07:02,053 because nobody can tell you your story's a lie, 156 00:07:02,156 --> 00:07:05,290 because it's not their story. Um, I'm not attacking them. 157 00:07:05,392 --> 00:07:09,728 I'm just bringing to light another part of the reality. 158 00:07:09,830 --> 00:07:13,765 -Your identity for decades... -Yeah. 159 00:07:13,867 --> 00:07:16,067 Was connected to--to hugh hefner and this playboy brand. 160 00:07:16,170 --> 00:07:18,603 Yeah. And to say that it was a lie, 161 00:07:18,705 --> 00:07:21,373 that "I was hurt," that "I saw other people hurt," 162 00:07:21,475 --> 00:07:23,208 that "I saw him hurting other people"... 163 00:07:23,310 --> 00:07:25,010 Yeah. 164 00:07:25,112 --> 00:07:28,580 ...That is a big, brave, bold thing to do. 165 00:07:28,682 --> 00:07:30,148 Thank you. 166 00:07:30,250 --> 00:07:33,485 And there are some people who support you. 167 00:07:33,587 --> 00:07:35,654 Yeah. 168 00:07:35,756 --> 00:07:38,790 Lisa loving barrett is somebody you haven't seen in a while, 169 00:07:38,892 --> 00:07:41,293 and she plays an essential part of your... 170 00:07:41,395 --> 00:07:42,627 -Story. -...Story, really. 171 00:07:42,729 --> 00:07:44,596 -Yes. Yeah. -And so are you ready to... 172 00:07:46,099 --> 00:07:47,466 -Yes, I am so ready. -Here's lisa loving barrett. 173 00:07:47,568 --> 00:07:49,067 Oh, my god. 174 00:07:49,169 --> 00:07:52,337 -It's been a minute. [laughs] -it's been a minute. 175 00:07:52,439 --> 00:07:53,305 I don't know if I wanna hug you or feed you. 176 00:07:53,407 --> 00:07:56,942 [laughter] 177 00:07:57,044 --> 00:07:59,377 one of the things that I loved about the documentary 178 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,248 was how you women connected through something 179 00:08:03,350 --> 00:08:05,884 that was a little dark, lisa. 180 00:08:05,986 --> 00:08:08,487 What was your role there before you met sondra? 181 00:08:08,589 --> 00:08:11,089 I actually was working part-time under the table, 182 00:08:11,191 --> 00:08:13,391 helping someone invite people up for the movies 183 00:08:13,494 --> 00:08:16,294 for fridays and Sunday evenings, 184 00:08:16,396 --> 00:08:19,898 and I did that for months until I was introduced to mary. 185 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,468 She was ready for an assistant, so I segued into that position. 186 00:08:23,570 --> 00:08:25,070 Hef came to me and said, "I've hired this secretary 187 00:08:25,172 --> 00:08:28,673 that--she's your age, and I think-- 188 00:08:28,775 --> 00:08:29,975 I think you'll really like her, and I thought 189 00:08:30,077 --> 00:08:32,077 that maybe you guys could hang out." 190 00:08:32,179 --> 00:08:35,647 and I didn't think that I was hired to spy on her. 191 00:08:35,749 --> 00:08:38,450 It segued into this thing where hef was saying, 192 00:08:38,552 --> 00:08:39,885 "what are you doing Tuesday night? 193 00:08:39,987 --> 00:08:41,853 Why don't you and sondra go do something Tuesday night?" 194 00:08:41,955 --> 00:08:43,488 but he would say on wednesdays, 195 00:08:43,590 --> 00:08:45,457 "oh, what'd you girls do last night?" 196 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,860 it didn't feel bad to say, "oh, no, we had a great time" 197 00:08:48,962 --> 00:08:50,762 and kind of recant what we had done. 198 00:08:50,864 --> 00:08:55,066 And it wasn't until it started to feel a little bit invasive 199 00:08:55,168 --> 00:08:58,470 that I finally just had to say, "I can't do this. 200 00:08:58,572 --> 00:09:01,039 I can't come back and report to you." 201 00:09:01,141 --> 00:09:05,911 was he jealous? Was he worried that she was cheating on him? 202 00:09:06,013 --> 00:09:06,945 What do you think he was worried about? 203 00:09:07,047 --> 00:09:10,015 All of the above. Attention. 204 00:09:10,117 --> 00:09:11,650 -Period? -Yeah. Yeah, don't you think? 205 00:09:11,752 --> 00:09:13,151 -Yeah, yeah, yeah. -Yeah. 206 00:09:13,253 --> 00:09:15,053 It drove him nuts when he thought of me having fun 207 00:09:15,155 --> 00:09:20,091 outside of his clutches, you know? 208 00:09:20,193 --> 00:09:24,029 Diyeah. What he was doing wasg otry to open up the timeslots. 209 00:09:24,131 --> 00:09:26,765 He had other things to do. 210 00:09:26,867 --> 00:09:28,900 Other people to do. 211 00:09:29,002 --> 00:09:32,337 And that was heartbreaking for me, and she saw it all. 212 00:09:32,439 --> 00:09:34,739 You know, she saw the pain that it caused me. 213 00:09:34,841 --> 00:09:36,274 She told me a great story 214 00:09:36,376 --> 00:09:37,742 I had completely forgotten about on thanksgiving. 215 00:09:37,844 --> 00:09:39,044 -What's the story? Tell me. -On thanksgiving. 216 00:09:39,146 --> 00:09:41,146 It's thanksgiving, and we're partying. 217 00:09:41,248 --> 00:09:43,715 We're cooking in my little 2-bedroom, 218 00:09:43,817 --> 00:09:46,651 above-a-garage apartment. 219 00:09:46,753 --> 00:09:48,587 It's very innocent but very fun, 220 00:09:48,689 --> 00:09:52,691 and mary called and said hef wanted to talk to sondra. 221 00:09:52,793 --> 00:09:54,793 About five minutes after you hung up from him, 222 00:09:54,895 --> 00:09:56,595 mary called back and said, "hef's coming over. 223 00:09:56,697 --> 00:09:58,697 He wants to hang out with you girls." 224 00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:02,601 he left whomever he was with to be with me. 225 00:10:02,703 --> 00:10:07,172 So before hef comes a little car with a butler 226 00:10:07,274 --> 00:10:08,807 who brought in satin sheets. -[laughs] 227 00:10:08,909 --> 00:10:11,409 he goes into my bedroom and remakes my bed. 228 00:10:11,511 --> 00:10:13,545 -With his sheets? -Yes. 229 00:10:13,647 --> 00:10:16,948 Yes, with these satin sheets. So then a few minutes later, 230 00:10:17,050 --> 00:10:18,483 security knocked at the door, 231 00:10:18,585 --> 00:10:22,354 and hef came into my bedroom with sondra. 232 00:10:22,456 --> 00:10:26,524 So I left, and about an hour, hef came back out. 233 00:10:26,627 --> 00:10:29,828 So I scurried around upstairs and peeled her off the sheets. 234 00:10:29,930 --> 00:10:34,566 I have to say, that just sounds so dark. 235 00:10:34,668 --> 00:10:37,135 -And it was disrespectful. -It was all about him. 236 00:10:37,237 --> 00:10:41,373 It went from being fun and adoring 237 00:10:41,475 --> 00:10:44,509 to being exhausting and abusive. -Uh-huh. 238 00:10:44,611 --> 00:10:48,680 Next, lisa and sondra reveal how hef blurred the lines 239 00:10:48,782 --> 00:10:50,915 between business and the bedroom. 240 00:10:54,521 --> 00:10:56,855 Lisa, now as you look back, do you have any regrets 241 00:10:56,957 --> 00:10:58,189 about your participation? 242 00:10:58,291 --> 00:11:00,158 -I do not. -No regrets? 243 00:11:00,260 --> 00:11:02,560 I do not. I have no regrets. 244 00:11:02,663 --> 00:11:07,699 I didn't have a-a perspective of evil or wrongdoing 245 00:11:07,801 --> 00:11:09,134 at that point. 246 00:11:09,236 --> 00:11:11,670 Okay, but what is your response to people today 247 00:11:11,772 --> 00:11:14,472 that say, "you worked for him. You should have known this"? 248 00:11:14,574 --> 00:11:17,275 Well, I mean, look, it was very homogenized then. 249 00:11:17,377 --> 00:11:19,511 It was made okay. It made-- 250 00:11:19,613 --> 00:11:20,979 it was okay for me to tell my grandparents 251 00:11:21,081 --> 00:11:23,448 that I worked at playboy. 252 00:11:23,550 --> 00:11:26,084 From an experience perspective, it's easy to see it differently. 253 00:11:26,186 --> 00:11:31,890 With sondra, I saw a hopeful young woman in love. 254 00:11:31,992 --> 00:11:33,525 I loved him, and I kept thinking, 255 00:11:33,627 --> 00:11:35,927 "he'll tire of this, it'll change." 256 00:11:36,029 --> 00:11:38,797 and 'cause he was telling me, "we'll be together forever," 257 00:11:38,899 --> 00:11:42,500 and I was the first girl he'd like to have a baby together. 258 00:11:42,602 --> 00:11:45,270 He didn't just walk in one day and start doing, you know... 259 00:11:45,372 --> 00:11:46,371 -Yeah. -...Monstrous things. 260 00:11:46,473 --> 00:11:48,540 -It was--it was an evolution. -Yeah. 261 00:11:48,642 --> 00:11:52,544 And the more she gave him, the more he wanted... 262 00:11:52,646 --> 00:11:54,045 Yeah. 263 00:11:54,147 --> 00:11:56,281 ...The more he needed, the more he expected. 264 00:11:58,085 --> 00:12:01,319 This picture, I'm being silly. I'm--I'm happy. 265 00:12:01,421 --> 00:12:03,655 -Yeah. -And in this picture, 266 00:12:03,757 --> 00:12:06,725 he's whispering in my ear, isn't he? 267 00:12:06,827 --> 00:12:08,593 I wonder what he's saying. [laughs] 268 00:12:08,695 --> 00:12:10,962 and then you look at my face in that one. 269 00:12:11,064 --> 00:12:14,199 I'd been told to go up and orchestrate an evening, 270 00:12:14,301 --> 00:12:18,670 and... [exhales deeply] 271 00:12:18,772 --> 00:12:23,708 can you see it? It was like the feeling I had every day. 272 00:12:23,810 --> 00:12:24,509 I could believe everything was wonderful and I was happy, 273 00:12:24,611 --> 00:12:26,311 and I was in love. 274 00:12:26,413 --> 00:12:28,079 ♪♪♪ 275 00:12:28,181 --> 00:12:31,950 and then as the evening approached... 276 00:12:32,052 --> 00:12:34,252 There it was. 277 00:12:34,354 --> 00:12:36,221 There was the whisper. There was... 278 00:12:36,323 --> 00:12:39,157 His wishes that needed to be met. 279 00:12:39,259 --> 00:12:43,728 The group sex--it was at least five nights a week. 280 00:12:43,830 --> 00:12:46,131 They had a protocol. 281 00:12:46,233 --> 00:12:48,767 Everyone had their role they played, 282 00:12:48,869 --> 00:12:50,068 but I wasn't in a romantic relationship with this man. 283 00:12:50,170 --> 00:12:52,804 I was in a work relationship with this man. 284 00:12:52,906 --> 00:12:55,907 And it isn't because I thought I was above it all. 285 00:12:56,009 --> 00:12:57,909 It was because I knew the parameters of my job 286 00:12:58,011 --> 00:13:00,011 that I knew was expected of me, 287 00:13:00,113 --> 00:13:04,382 and I knew 90% of it was business. 288 00:13:04,484 --> 00:13:06,618 Lisa, you were part of the business side... 289 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,920 -Yeah. -...Of the playboy brand. 290 00:13:09,022 --> 00:13:10,755 Can you tell me about the really disturbing things 291 00:13:10,857 --> 00:13:12,857 that either happened to you 292 00:13:12,959 --> 00:13:15,093 or that you noticed happened to somebody else? 293 00:13:15,195 --> 00:13:16,427 Yeah, there were a couple of times 294 00:13:16,530 --> 00:13:18,396 that I put myself in a position. 295 00:13:18,498 --> 00:13:22,133 When we were in the game house, 296 00:13:22,235 --> 00:13:26,237 hef would ask me, "why don't you stay tonight?" 297 00:13:26,339 --> 00:13:29,340 I just told hef that I-- I just couldn't do that. 298 00:13:29,442 --> 00:13:31,609 My daddy told me you don't [bleep] where you eat. 299 00:13:31,711 --> 00:13:34,679 The buffer was I wasn't a playmate. 300 00:13:34,781 --> 00:13:37,282 I was with mary, and I had a job, 301 00:13:37,384 --> 00:13:40,385 and that was the easy way for me. 302 00:13:40,487 --> 00:13:42,854 But one night, I was working, 303 00:13:42,956 --> 00:13:44,756 and hef was still out in the game house. 304 00:13:44,858 --> 00:13:46,724 I had a date that night. 305 00:13:46,827 --> 00:13:48,793 I wanted to go home, but we couldn't go home 306 00:13:48,895 --> 00:13:50,128 until hef went upstairs for the evening. 307 00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:52,297 So while he was still in the game house, 308 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:55,166 I quickly ran upstairs to the master bedroom, 309 00:13:55,268 --> 00:13:58,136 and there were other women there that were showering 310 00:13:58,238 --> 00:14:00,572 and dressing, and I think you were in the tub, 311 00:14:00,674 --> 00:14:02,507 and I sat on the edge of the tub 312 00:14:02,609 --> 00:14:04,976 and hiked up my skirt and shaved my legs. 313 00:14:05,078 --> 00:14:10,114 And unexpectedly, hef came up much sooner than I thought, 314 00:14:10,217 --> 00:14:13,251 and he came up behind me and... 315 00:14:13,353 --> 00:14:15,720 -[laughs] oh, my god. -I'm trying not to picture it. 316 00:14:15,822 --> 00:14:17,856 And he sort of squeezed my shoulders and said, 317 00:14:17,958 --> 00:14:20,091 "oh, my god. You're joining us tonight? 318 00:14:20,193 --> 00:14:21,893 -Oh. [sighs] -and I just instantly thought, 319 00:14:21,995 --> 00:14:23,862 "oh, I put myself in this position." 320 00:14:23,964 --> 00:14:27,932 that's where the decision was made that 321 00:14:28,034 --> 00:14:30,835 I didn't wanna ever feel like that again. 322 00:14:30,937 --> 00:14:33,771 I'm reading a lot of these criticisms 323 00:14:33,874 --> 00:14:36,241 that say, "oh, I went to the mansion. 324 00:14:36,343 --> 00:14:38,343 I never saw any of that happening." 325 00:14:38,445 --> 00:14:41,713 the same people that-- that would tend to believe 326 00:14:41,815 --> 00:14:42,914 somebody in an office or a different environment, 327 00:14:43,016 --> 00:14:45,717 but they're not believing these women. 328 00:14:47,087 --> 00:14:48,586 -Wi don't think--I thinks? They're believing us, 329 00:14:48,688 --> 00:14:50,989 but they think we deserved it. 330 00:14:51,091 --> 00:14:53,491 Mm, that's really harsh, but... 331 00:14:56,496 --> 00:14:57,595 Why wouldbecause--rve that? Whbecause playboy's playboy.At? 332 00:14:57,697 --> 00:14:59,998 It's sexual. It's not a convent. What do you expect? 333 00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:02,267 I mean, I also am getting backlash from this. 334 00:15:02,369 --> 00:15:04,402 "why did she wait so long? I stand by hefner." 335 00:15:04,504 --> 00:15:06,804 and to come after us, we didn't do the harm. 336 00:15:06,907 --> 00:15:08,273 It was done to us 337 00:15:08,375 --> 00:15:10,909 and excused the person who did it. 338 00:15:11,011 --> 00:15:15,446 You have had two very different experiences. 339 00:15:15,548 --> 00:15:18,549 Lisa, can you just sum up why you decided to come forward 340 00:15:18,652 --> 00:15:22,153 and support sondra during this experience for her? 341 00:15:22,255 --> 00:15:24,889 -Because she is my friend. -She asked me to. 342 00:15:24,991 --> 00:15:27,358 Every woman should have a lisa in their life. 343 00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:30,495 Everyone should be more supportive of women 344 00:15:30,597 --> 00:15:31,429 and their story. 345 00:15:31,531 --> 00:15:34,032 [sniffles] 346 00:15:34,134 --> 00:15:36,567 there's another story that is very similar 347 00:15:36,670 --> 00:15:39,570 to your story, sondra. 348 00:15:39,673 --> 00:15:42,540 This thing that happened with hef 349 00:15:42,642 --> 00:15:44,742 set me back a long way. 350 00:15:44,844 --> 00:15:46,711 Coming up, two hefner survivors reunite 351 00:15:46,813 --> 00:15:49,814 after decades apart. 352 00:15:49,916 --> 00:15:53,051 -It doesn't seem real. -No, no, no. 353 00:15:55,188 --> 00:15:56,621 Sondra, you were so brave 354 00:15:56,723 --> 00:16:00,024 to share so many of your traumatic experiences with us, 355 00:16:00,126 --> 00:16:02,093 but I know that one of the reasons you did that 356 00:16:02,195 --> 00:16:04,028 is in the hope that other people 357 00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:05,863 would share their stories, too. 358 00:16:05,966 --> 00:16:08,466 And there's one other woman that's joining us... 359 00:16:08,568 --> 00:16:09,467 -[sniffles] -...That has had 360 00:16:09,569 --> 00:16:11,302 some very similar experiences-- 361 00:16:11,404 --> 00:16:13,671 susie krabacher. 362 00:16:13,773 --> 00:16:15,340 -Hi. [laughs] -[gasps] 363 00:16:15,442 --> 00:16:17,308 you're--you're grown up now. 364 00:16:17,410 --> 00:16:20,211 -It doesn't seem real. -No, no, no. [laughs] 365 00:16:20,313 --> 00:16:22,647 I've only been visualizing you guys just as you were. 366 00:16:22,749 --> 00:16:25,750 I know. You still scare me to death, you're so pretty. 367 00:16:25,852 --> 00:16:27,218 -[laughter] -stop. 368 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,921 Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. [laughs] 369 00:16:30,023 --> 00:16:32,223 -hi. -I'm so glad you're okay. 370 00:16:32,325 --> 00:16:33,691 I'm okay. I'm okay. 371 00:16:33,793 --> 00:16:34,993 I'm so glad you're okay and strong. 372 00:16:35,095 --> 00:16:36,761 And I'm so glad you are, too. 373 00:16:36,863 --> 00:16:38,963 I was just talking in the makeup room. 374 00:16:39,065 --> 00:16:41,933 I never could come up to you and talk to you 375 00:16:42,035 --> 00:16:44,469 because you were so beautiful and so intimidating 376 00:16:44,571 --> 00:16:46,104 and so perfect. -Oh, I'm so sorry. 377 00:16:46,206 --> 00:16:49,707 No! I just...I'm so amazed that you pulled off 378 00:16:49,809 --> 00:16:52,310 being so strong during all of that. 379 00:16:52,412 --> 00:16:55,480 None of us had any idea. 380 00:16:55,582 --> 00:16:57,648 Yeah. I was hiding it. 381 00:16:57,751 --> 00:16:58,816 If we had only talked, can you imagine? 382 00:16:58,918 --> 00:17:00,585 Yeah. Yeah. 383 00:17:00,687 --> 00:17:02,387 -It's been many years... -Yeah. 384 00:17:02,489 --> 00:17:03,855 ...Since the two of you have seen each other in person. 385 00:17:03,957 --> 00:17:05,490 -How many years? 20 years? -Well, we were girls. 386 00:17:05,592 --> 00:17:08,192 -Oh, it's longer than that. -We were girls. We-- 387 00:17:08,294 --> 00:17:09,827 -35? -35 years, maybe. 388 00:17:09,929 --> 00:17:11,662 -35 years. -Both: Yeah. 389 00:17:11,765 --> 00:17:13,264 Can you first tell me, susie, a little bit 390 00:17:13,366 --> 00:17:14,699 about what brought you to playboy 391 00:17:14,801 --> 00:17:18,469 and what--what your story was back then. 392 00:17:18,571 --> 00:17:22,540 Well, I started playboy because I needed the money. 393 00:17:22,642 --> 00:17:26,177 I was making $3.25 an hour at my job, 394 00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:29,914 and I was approached by a photographer from "playboy," 395 00:17:30,016 --> 00:17:31,716 and you know, at first, I said, "yes, you know, 396 00:17:31,818 --> 00:17:34,118 this sounds great," but then when the offer came 397 00:17:34,220 --> 00:17:38,189 to actually go to the mansion, it became really real. 398 00:17:38,291 --> 00:17:41,793 I had this moment as I was going through those gates, 399 00:17:41,895 --> 00:17:43,694 you know, I can run now. 400 00:17:43,797 --> 00:17:45,663 [laughter] 401 00:17:45,765 --> 00:17:51,035 I did believe that what I was doing was wrong, 402 00:17:51,137 --> 00:17:52,670 but I thought, you know, god's gonna forgive me. 403 00:17:52,772 --> 00:17:55,440 I need this opportunity, and I'll never be able 404 00:17:55,542 --> 00:17:57,141 to make this kind of money. 405 00:17:57,243 --> 00:18:00,511 I was playmate of the month of may 1983. 406 00:18:00,613 --> 00:18:03,114 I was staying at the playboy mansion. 407 00:18:03,216 --> 00:18:06,984 It was all very intimidating and really new. 408 00:18:07,087 --> 00:18:10,288 I felt safe in my room, and that's where I stayed. 409 00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:15,026 Hef--he was telling me, "susie, I've heard that 410 00:18:15,128 --> 00:18:17,428 you're nervous and that you've been staying in your room, 411 00:18:17,530 --> 00:18:21,032 but I want you to know it's safe here." 412 00:18:21,134 --> 00:18:23,334 and I'm thinking to myself, you know, okay, 413 00:18:23,436 --> 00:18:27,672 I've never had a strong father figure in my life, 414 00:18:27,774 --> 00:18:29,507 and I don't know if you knew it, but I-- 415 00:18:29,609 --> 00:18:31,976 my grandfather was a pedophile. -I did not know that. 416 00:18:32,078 --> 00:18:33,544 And I was his victim from 4 years old... 417 00:18:33,646 --> 00:18:36,314 -Oh, my god. I'm so sorry. -...To 8, 418 00:18:36,416 --> 00:18:40,551 and so I'm thinking, finally I have a grandfather figure 419 00:18:40,653 --> 00:18:43,454 that's nice and safe. 420 00:18:43,556 --> 00:18:47,859 One day, I was talking to hef, and I said, "you know, 421 00:18:47,961 --> 00:18:50,661 I just--I-I need to know about my future. 422 00:18:50,763 --> 00:18:53,698 Will I have to go home? Or you know, what will I do?" 423 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,667 I trusted him so much. 424 00:18:56,769 --> 00:19:00,271 He really made me feel like he cared for me... 425 00:19:00,373 --> 00:19:02,707 -Mm-hmm. -...As, you know, 426 00:19:02,809 --> 00:19:04,008 as like a family member. 427 00:19:04,110 --> 00:19:05,943 You were special. Yeah, you were special. 428 00:19:06,045 --> 00:19:08,880 So he gave me a pill. I don't even remember 429 00:19:08,982 --> 00:19:11,983 ending my sentence, and I woke up, 430 00:19:12,085 --> 00:19:14,218 and then, you know, I'm coming out of it. 431 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,554 I'm coming out of what's actually happened. 432 00:19:16,656 --> 00:19:18,189 This is happening. This is not a dream. 433 00:19:18,291 --> 00:19:21,893 This is happening. Am I-- am I a rape victim again? 434 00:19:21,995 --> 00:19:23,861 Could this possibly be happening? 435 00:19:23,963 --> 00:19:27,165 The next day, I said, "I need to talk to marilyn." 436 00:19:27,267 --> 00:19:30,701 so I went into her office, and I just broke down. 437 00:19:30,803 --> 00:19:35,139 I was so ashamed and felt so gross. 438 00:19:35,241 --> 00:19:37,909 All I could say is, "he did it to me," 439 00:19:38,011 --> 00:19:41,946 and then she said, "don't worry. It's okay," 440 00:19:42,048 --> 00:19:46,450 and so I'm like, "okay, so it's okay. It's okay. 441 00:19:46,553 --> 00:19:49,487 It's okay. It's okay," 442 00:19:49,589 --> 00:19:51,556 and then I went back to the makeup room, 443 00:19:51,658 --> 00:19:54,959 and the entire time, you're being told, 444 00:19:55,061 --> 00:19:56,894 "well, you know, you could be playmate of the year, 445 00:19:56,996 --> 00:20:00,331 and this is so important, and the money-- 446 00:20:00,433 --> 00:20:01,999 your life will be changed forever." 447 00:20:02,101 --> 00:20:03,467 ever, yeah. [sniffles] 448 00:20:03,570 --> 00:20:05,369 "you'll never have to worry about money again." 449 00:20:05,471 --> 00:20:08,339 and you're, like, what? What's gonna happen after this? 450 00:20:08,441 --> 00:20:10,608 If I'm not playmate of the year, I can't go back home. 451 00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:12,743 I mean, at least I couldn't. 452 00:20:12,845 --> 00:20:14,645 I think a lot of girls did have their family's support, 453 00:20:14,747 --> 00:20:19,717 but I had nowhere else to go. 454 00:20:19,819 --> 00:20:21,652 He was always nice in front of other people. 455 00:20:21,754 --> 00:20:23,454 Yes, yes. 456 00:20:23,556 --> 00:20:25,289 I didn't like going to the parties. 457 00:20:25,391 --> 00:20:27,758 Boy, did I get in trouble for that. That lasted-- 458 00:20:27,860 --> 00:20:29,560 oh, yeah, if you didn't socialize, ooh. 459 00:20:29,662 --> 00:20:31,796 Yeah. It's like, "oh, well, just go to the party. 460 00:20:31,898 --> 00:20:34,832 Have your meal." that's not what it was. 461 00:20:34,934 --> 00:20:36,634 Socialize is flirting, older guys. 462 00:20:36,736 --> 00:20:38,269 Older men. 463 00:20:38,371 --> 00:20:39,971 Not anywhere near our age range. 464 00:20:40,073 --> 00:20:42,006 And they said inappropriate things also. 465 00:20:42,108 --> 00:20:45,109 -They said inappropriate things. -Touched you. 466 00:20:45,211 --> 00:20:48,246 Like, uh, "how would you like a 36dd?" 467 00:20:48,348 --> 00:20:51,115 he wants to buy me breast augmentation. 468 00:20:51,217 --> 00:20:53,584 -I just met the man. -Yeah, yeah, right. 469 00:20:53,686 --> 00:20:55,820 This is unbelievable because what you're describing 470 00:20:55,922 --> 00:20:59,123 is, uh, kind of a circle of people 471 00:20:59,225 --> 00:21:00,891 that expected you to be sexually available... 472 00:21:00,994 --> 00:21:03,227 -Uh-huh. -...For these men. 473 00:21:03,329 --> 00:21:05,630 -Is that fair to say? -Day and night. 474 00:21:05,732 --> 00:21:10,001 So there was this uncomfortable experience 475 00:21:10,103 --> 00:21:12,436 that a lot of women were traumatized by, 476 00:21:12,538 --> 00:21:14,438 and yet if you talk about it to each other, 477 00:21:14,540 --> 00:21:16,040 then it makes it real. 478 00:21:16,142 --> 00:21:17,975 It's a problem, and it becomes a problem, see? 479 00:21:18,077 --> 00:21:18,843 -It becomes a problem. -Yeah. 480 00:21:18,945 --> 00:21:21,245 Okay. What did you do instead? 481 00:21:21,347 --> 00:21:23,681 We talked about everything else. 482 00:21:25,285 --> 00:21:28,085 You never really talked about what happened in there. 483 00:21:28,187 --> 00:21:31,222 Susie, you wrote about your experience 25 years later 484 00:21:31,324 --> 00:21:33,291 in your memoir. 485 00:21:33,393 --> 00:21:34,959 Yeah. Mm-hmm. 486 00:21:35,061 --> 00:21:36,894 This is important. 487 00:21:36,996 --> 00:21:41,599 Sondra, you heard that susie wrote a book. 488 00:21:41,701 --> 00:21:42,933 It helped me... 489 00:21:43,036 --> 00:21:44,168 -Really? -...Come to terms 490 00:21:44,270 --> 00:21:45,870 with what I had, yeah. 491 00:21:45,972 --> 00:21:47,004 And you hadn't talked before then. 492 00:21:47,106 --> 00:21:49,774 -Yeah. Yeah. -So you had no idea... 493 00:21:49,876 --> 00:21:50,841 -None. -...Susie, that you were 494 00:21:50,943 --> 00:21:52,209 the catalyst... -No! 495 00:21:52,312 --> 00:21:53,844 ...For sondra deciding to come forward. 496 00:21:53,946 --> 00:21:55,613 -No, and... -My god. [laughs] 497 00:21:55,715 --> 00:21:57,048 it was one of the-- one of the things 498 00:21:57,150 --> 00:21:58,749 that just triggered me, 499 00:21:58,851 --> 00:22:02,153 and, uh, I just--I didn't want the girls to think 500 00:22:02,255 --> 00:22:04,121 that I was condoning these things. 501 00:22:04,223 --> 00:22:08,326 Um...It's still a phenomenon to me that 502 00:22:08,428 --> 00:22:10,761 the very girls that we know were involved 503 00:22:10,863 --> 00:22:15,333 in this kind of activity will not, um, 504 00:22:15,435 --> 00:22:17,134 hold him accountable for it. 505 00:22:17,236 --> 00:22:20,371 But the thing is, it was not that we got ourself 506 00:22:20,473 --> 00:22:21,839 completely into it. 507 00:22:21,941 --> 00:22:23,307 We thought we were doing something 508 00:22:23,409 --> 00:22:26,711 that would better our lives. 509 00:22:26,813 --> 00:22:29,313 I felt like this was-- this was it for me. 510 00:22:29,415 --> 00:22:31,282 I have such a huge amount of empathy 511 00:22:31,384 --> 00:22:32,917 because it could have been me. I went to--I went to-- 512 00:22:33,019 --> 00:22:34,518 could've been anybody. 513 00:22:34,620 --> 00:22:36,821 I went to the mansion when I was 20. 514 00:22:36,923 --> 00:22:41,525 Sondra, you had... A new friendship in your life, 515 00:22:41,627 --> 00:22:45,963 someone who wanted to tell their story to you. 516 00:22:46,065 --> 00:22:49,033 Coming up, a new hefner survivor comes forward 517 00:22:49,135 --> 00:22:52,069 to share her story. 518 00:22:54,173 --> 00:22:55,706 One of the amazing parts of doing this special 519 00:22:55,808 --> 00:22:58,175 is hearing the feedback from people 520 00:22:58,277 --> 00:22:59,810 that have seen sondra's story, 521 00:22:59,912 --> 00:23:02,213 and, audrey, you're somebody that came forward 522 00:23:02,315 --> 00:23:03,381 with your own story. 523 00:23:03,483 --> 00:23:04,815 So can you tell me a little bit about 524 00:23:04,917 --> 00:23:06,317 what brought you to playboy to begin with? 525 00:23:06,419 --> 00:23:09,687 Well, when I was younger, I wanted to model. 526 00:23:09,789 --> 00:23:13,591 So everyone told me I was not tall enough. 527 00:23:13,693 --> 00:23:15,459 So I thought, hmm, well, maybe "playboy." 528 00:23:15,561 --> 00:23:18,796 and I sent my pictures in when I turned 18, 529 00:23:18,898 --> 00:23:21,899 and they sent me a letter accepting me, 530 00:23:22,001 --> 00:23:23,701 and I was thrilled. 531 00:23:23,803 --> 00:23:28,072 I flew out to the mansion, got to stay in the guest house 532 00:23:28,174 --> 00:23:30,074 and meet hef. 533 00:23:30,176 --> 00:23:33,010 So you were a teenager. Did it feel safe to be with him? 534 00:23:33,112 --> 00:23:35,146 -Yeah, very. -You felt safe? 535 00:23:35,248 --> 00:23:37,114 Yeah. He was married, number one. 536 00:23:37,216 --> 00:23:40,017 He was married to kimberley at the time, 537 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,920 and I read it in an article. 538 00:23:43,022 --> 00:23:45,322 He had plenty of women, but through his marriages, 539 00:23:45,425 --> 00:23:47,458 he was always faithful. 540 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,593 I do. 541 00:23:49,695 --> 00:23:53,497 As you reached into the '90s, it was a big, big change. 542 00:23:53,599 --> 00:23:56,600 Kimberley was the lady of the house, 543 00:23:56,702 --> 00:23:58,369 and the partying kinda ended. 544 00:23:58,471 --> 00:23:59,670 Kimberley's presence was definitely known 545 00:23:59,772 --> 00:24:01,272 around the mansion. 546 00:24:01,374 --> 00:24:03,908 Hef did not hit on any of the playmates. 547 00:24:04,010 --> 00:24:06,811 As far as talking to him, 548 00:24:06,913 --> 00:24:09,113 we were told that's a good way to get yourself blacklisted 549 00:24:09,215 --> 00:24:11,415 from the mansion. 550 00:24:11,517 --> 00:24:13,050 You know, if he--if we saw him coming one way, 551 00:24:13,152 --> 00:24:14,652 we'd go the other way. 552 00:24:14,754 --> 00:24:19,089 So it's 1994. You came out to shoot for "playboy." 553 00:24:19,192 --> 00:24:20,758 -mm-hmm. -What you thought would be 554 00:24:20,860 --> 00:24:22,660 potentially a centerfold. 555 00:24:22,762 --> 00:24:24,762 -Yes. -And then what happened? 556 00:24:24,864 --> 00:24:29,200 We did shoot for a day or two, 557 00:24:29,302 --> 00:24:32,102 and kimberley wasn't there. She was skiing. 558 00:24:32,205 --> 00:24:33,871 -Hef, though, was there. -Yeah. 559 00:24:33,973 --> 00:24:35,372 -Okay. -I spoke with him. 560 00:24:35,475 --> 00:24:38,776 Um, that's when he invited me to his room. 561 00:24:38,878 --> 00:24:41,078 He said, "I have some photos of you 562 00:24:41,180 --> 00:24:43,981 you might wanna take a look at." 563 00:24:44,083 --> 00:24:45,115 everybody left, and I was sitting 564 00:24:45,218 --> 00:24:46,750 at the bottom of the stairs 565 00:24:46,853 --> 00:24:49,687 deciding whether or not if I should go upstairs. 566 00:24:49,789 --> 00:24:52,323 But then I'm thinking, 567 00:24:52,425 --> 00:24:54,558 you only live once. This is my opportunity. 568 00:24:54,660 --> 00:24:57,828 This is my chance to make connections 569 00:24:57,930 --> 00:25:01,599 and get out there and go in my career and... 570 00:25:01,701 --> 00:25:07,905 I had no thoughts in my mind that anything would happen. 571 00:25:08,007 --> 00:25:09,607 So you decided to go upstairs. 572 00:25:09,709 --> 00:25:11,642 What happened? 573 00:25:11,744 --> 00:25:14,778 He showed me the pictures of me. 574 00:25:14,881 --> 00:25:17,047 They were right there by the door, 575 00:25:17,149 --> 00:25:19,817 and then immediately, he walked me over to the bed, 576 00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:22,720 and I sat down. 577 00:25:22,822 --> 00:25:24,722 He was to the right of me, 578 00:25:24,824 --> 00:25:27,491 and he pulled out a joint to split it, 579 00:25:27,593 --> 00:25:31,028 and now I'm starting to get speechless. 580 00:25:31,130 --> 00:25:33,497 I'm not talking. I'm like, what? This is all happening so fast. 581 00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:34,765 -Yeah. -What's--and he gave it to me, 582 00:25:34,867 --> 00:25:37,067 and then he's pulling down his pants, 583 00:25:37,169 --> 00:25:40,938 and I-I just started--I froze. 584 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,209 And...He got on top of me. 585 00:25:45,311 --> 00:25:46,610 [whispers] I'm sorry. 586 00:25:46,712 --> 00:25:50,581 And, um, I just froze. 587 00:25:50,683 --> 00:25:53,350 Did he have sex with you without your consent? 588 00:25:53,452 --> 00:25:55,152 Yes, he did. I didn't say anything. 589 00:25:55,254 --> 00:25:56,620 I didn't give him permission. 590 00:25:56,722 --> 00:25:58,622 What was I gonna do? 591 00:25:58,724 --> 00:26:00,357 If I said no, would he have stopped? I don't know. 592 00:26:00,459 --> 00:26:02,993 -I just-- -but no. He wouldn't have. 593 00:26:03,095 --> 00:26:05,863 I laid there, and when he was done, 594 00:26:05,965 --> 00:26:09,867 he walked me down to the guest house. 595 00:26:09,969 --> 00:26:11,101 I didn't know what to think that night. 596 00:26:11,203 --> 00:26:13,537 I just--I cried myself to sleep. 597 00:26:13,639 --> 00:26:15,472 So, you know, this isn't a fairy tale. 598 00:26:15,575 --> 00:26:17,174 This isn't what I signed up for. 599 00:26:17,276 --> 00:26:19,577 What are you feeling right now, sondra? 600 00:26:19,679 --> 00:26:21,979 Lots of girls have ambitions. Many have ambitions. 601 00:26:22,081 --> 00:26:24,114 If that's what she was thinking, 602 00:26:24,216 --> 00:26:26,750 it didn't give him the right to do what he did. 603 00:26:26,852 --> 00:26:29,353 The next day, I had a shoot, 604 00:26:29,455 --> 00:26:30,955 and I couldn't move. I didn't get out of the bed. 605 00:26:31,057 --> 00:26:34,058 And I-I didn't go, and the makeup artist, missy, 606 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,327 came at the time and to check on me, 607 00:26:36,429 --> 00:26:38,796 and I said, "I just don't-- I just don't feel 608 00:26:38,898 --> 00:26:41,131 I wanna do this right now," 609 00:26:41,233 --> 00:26:43,334 and they said, "okay," and then they flew me home. 610 00:26:43,436 --> 00:26:45,903 Did you tell anybody that this had just happened to you? 611 00:26:46,005 --> 00:26:47,571 No. 612 00:26:47,673 --> 00:26:49,707 I-I didn't know what to think. I was scared. 613 00:26:49,809 --> 00:26:51,175 I thought I was gonna get in trouble. 614 00:26:51,277 --> 00:26:53,110 -Yeah. -His house, his power, 615 00:26:54,347 --> 00:26:55,679 she should've known better, his enterprright?D be quiet-- 616 00:26:55,781 --> 00:26:59,116 right. So I had to just shut my mouth and go home, 617 00:26:59,218 --> 00:27:02,052 and I did, and then I got a letter in the mail-- 618 00:27:02,154 --> 00:27:04,121 a termination letter. 619 00:27:08,361 --> 00:27:10,527 There was a moment, wasn't there, 620 00:27:10,630 --> 00:27:12,963 where kimberley, his wife at the time, 621 00:27:13,065 --> 00:27:15,532 reached out to you? -She did. 622 00:27:15,635 --> 00:27:16,867 What happened? 623 00:27:16,969 --> 00:27:19,203 She called my house phone, and she's like, 624 00:27:19,305 --> 00:27:23,707 "um, I heard that you were up in the room with hugh," 625 00:27:23,809 --> 00:27:25,843 and she asked me if I went up there willingly 626 00:27:25,945 --> 00:27:28,779 or did he invite me? 627 00:27:28,881 --> 00:27:31,548 Yeah, of course he invited me, but I didn't tell her that. 628 00:27:31,651 --> 00:27:33,484 I didn't wanna get him in trouble. 629 00:27:33,586 --> 00:27:34,652 -I didn't wanna get him-- -you didn't wanna get the man 630 00:27:34,754 --> 00:27:36,720 that raped you in trouble? -Yeah. Yeah. 631 00:27:36,822 --> 00:27:39,356 I mean, that is so crazy. 632 00:27:39,458 --> 00:27:42,459 He didn't care about me or... 633 00:27:42,561 --> 00:27:44,128 What happened to me, 634 00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:46,030 and I was protecting him. 635 00:27:46,132 --> 00:27:48,132 After this happened to you, 636 00:27:48,234 --> 00:27:50,401 did you ever see hugh hefner again? 637 00:27:50,503 --> 00:27:53,671 No. That was it. I was thrown away, 638 00:27:53,773 --> 00:27:55,806 and I shut my mouth. 639 00:27:55,908 --> 00:28:00,044 Can you describe how that experience back then 640 00:28:00,146 --> 00:28:03,480 changed your life and your image of yourself? 641 00:28:03,582 --> 00:28:05,416 It does change you, especially the way 642 00:28:05,518 --> 00:28:08,986 you allow men to treat you sexually. 643 00:28:09,088 --> 00:28:12,923 And it took me a long time to figure it all out. 644 00:28:13,025 --> 00:28:16,260 Never let a man ever disrespected me. 645 00:28:16,362 --> 00:28:18,896 He altered your destiny for your life. 646 00:28:18,998 --> 00:28:21,965 He altered it, and not in a good way. 647 00:28:24,537 --> 00:28:27,237 Audrey, can you tell me what it was like for you 648 00:28:27,339 --> 00:28:29,506 to try to track down sondra? 649 00:28:29,608 --> 00:28:33,277 It was just divine intervention. 650 00:28:33,379 --> 00:28:35,679 A friend of mine said, 651 00:28:35,781 --> 00:28:38,148 "audrey, they're doing something about playboy," 652 00:28:38,250 --> 00:28:40,451 and then I saw her, and I was like, oh, my god. 653 00:28:40,553 --> 00:28:43,654 This could be the chance that I get to... 654 00:28:43,756 --> 00:28:45,589 -Yes. -...To tell what he did to me. 655 00:28:45,691 --> 00:28:47,758 -Yeah. -I just said, 656 00:28:47,860 --> 00:28:49,860 "I have to talk to her. I have to tell her what happened. 657 00:28:49,962 --> 00:28:51,695 She needs to hear this." 658 00:28:51,797 --> 00:28:54,898 sondra, what did it feel like the moment 659 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,167 that you got that phone message? 660 00:28:57,269 --> 00:28:59,970 It was a voicemail I got, and listening to it, 661 00:29:00,072 --> 00:29:01,905 I was stunned. It was like 662 00:29:02,007 --> 00:29:02,940 the air had been sucked out of me, 663 00:29:03,042 --> 00:29:04,241 and--and I was shaking. 664 00:29:04,343 --> 00:29:06,009 I called her immediately, 665 00:29:06,112 --> 00:29:09,146 and she just started talking, and she told me the story, 666 00:29:09,248 --> 00:29:11,415 and... [sniffles] and I told her it wasn't her fault, 667 00:29:11,517 --> 00:29:15,252 and she started crying, and then I started crying. 668 00:29:15,354 --> 00:29:17,221 It--it touched me so deeply. 669 00:29:17,323 --> 00:29:19,690 The whole reason why I came forward 670 00:29:19,792 --> 00:29:21,458 was being brought to me and showing me 671 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,393 that I was doing the right thing. 672 00:29:23,496 --> 00:29:27,131 You just believed me instantly, and that just felt so rewarding. 673 00:29:27,233 --> 00:29:30,567 Deep, deep, deep in my soul, I was just... [sighs deeply] 674 00:29:30,669 --> 00:29:32,836 sondra, you start the show. 675 00:29:32,938 --> 00:29:35,105 One of the very first things you say 676 00:29:35,207 --> 00:29:37,441 in the very first episode while you're getting miked up is... 677 00:29:37,543 --> 00:29:39,209 I'm not doing this for 15 minutes of fame. 678 00:29:39,311 --> 00:29:40,878 I mean, who would wanna throw themselves 679 00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:42,613 under the train for that? 680 00:29:42,715 --> 00:29:45,516 And you're kind of making fun of it 'cause you're not here... 681 00:29:45,618 --> 00:29:47,484 -No. -...For publicity. 682 00:29:47,586 --> 00:29:49,286 -No. -You're not here for publicity. 683 00:29:49,388 --> 00:29:50,888 No, freedom. 684 00:29:50,990 --> 00:29:52,022 -Freedom. -Freedom. 685 00:29:52,124 --> 00:29:53,056 -Yeah. -What does that mean? 686 00:29:53,159 --> 00:29:54,525 Freedom from keeping 687 00:29:54,627 --> 00:29:57,094 such a dirty secret inside for so long. 688 00:29:57,196 --> 00:30:00,364 Freedom for everyone out there who is having to... 689 00:30:00,466 --> 00:30:01,765 -Yeah. -...To just stop and speak up 690 00:30:01,867 --> 00:30:04,101 and say no and--and... 691 00:30:04,203 --> 00:30:06,537 And say, "you're not getting away with this." 692 00:30:06,639 --> 00:30:08,505 whether you're dead or not, 693 00:30:08,607 --> 00:30:10,440 you're not getting away with this. 694 00:30:10,543 --> 00:30:12,075 You were part of a sisterhood, as you called it, 695 00:30:12,178 --> 00:30:14,845 with the other playmates. -[sniffles] yeah. 696 00:30:14,947 --> 00:30:18,382 Do you think it's possible that you're now starting a movement 697 00:30:18,484 --> 00:30:20,551 with a new sisterhood? -Well, I hope so. 698 00:30:20,653 --> 00:30:23,153 Women coming together for women and holding each other up, 699 00:30:23,255 --> 00:30:26,123 whether it's the good times or the bad times. 700 00:30:26,225 --> 00:30:29,026 I can't even imagine how strong you are 701 00:30:29,128 --> 00:30:31,628 and how brave you are and... 702 00:30:31,730 --> 00:30:33,864 -See? [laughs] -I endured one night of it. 703 00:30:33,966 --> 00:30:36,133 -You endured years of it. -[sniffles] yeah. 704 00:30:36,235 --> 00:30:38,802 I-I can't even imagine what that 705 00:30:38,904 --> 00:30:41,505 would do to you mentally and--and spiritually. 706 00:30:41,607 --> 00:30:43,874 Yeah. Thank you. 707 00:30:43,976 --> 00:30:47,578 I wish I had the courage to say something a long time ago. 708 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,546 You have the courage today. 709 00:30:49,648 --> 00:30:51,248 -Yeah. Yeah. -I do. I do. 710 00:30:54,286 --> 00:30:55,953 Here we are, left with these stories from these women, 711 00:30:56,055 --> 00:30:57,754 and what do we do with it now? 712 00:30:57,857 --> 00:30:59,656 And we wanted to bring somebody onboard 713 00:30:59,758 --> 00:31:03,093 that can give us some insight, and that's dr. Kate balestrieri, 714 00:31:03,195 --> 00:31:06,029 and I wanna ask you first, dr. Kate, 715 00:31:06,131 --> 00:31:08,165 there's a real...Confusion for a lot of us 716 00:31:08,267 --> 00:31:09,967 that were part of the playboy family 717 00:31:10,069 --> 00:31:14,004 because we feel on one hand that we're proud 718 00:31:14,106 --> 00:31:15,772 of being able to powerful in our femininity... 719 00:31:15,875 --> 00:31:17,741 -Yeah. -...And our sexuality 720 00:31:17,843 --> 00:31:19,076 and take control of that. -Yeah. 721 00:31:19,178 --> 00:31:20,844 But the other part, especially after watching 722 00:31:20,946 --> 00:31:24,781 what has transpired over the last 10 weeks-- 723 00:31:24,884 --> 00:31:27,551 there's a part of me that feels really awful about it. 724 00:31:27,653 --> 00:31:31,121 In reality, human beings are incredibly messy, 725 00:31:31,223 --> 00:31:33,257 and we're complicated and we're dimensional, 726 00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:36,660 so there's room for there to be really positive aspects 727 00:31:36,762 --> 00:31:39,396 of anyone's experience there, as well as really 728 00:31:39,498 --> 00:31:42,366 terrifying and really horrifying experiences and elements of it, 729 00:31:42,468 --> 00:31:45,636 because if they were all bad, people would have left. 730 00:31:45,738 --> 00:31:46,937 -Yeah. -Right? 731 00:31:48,474 --> 00:31:51,141 Sit there and take that -over and over and over againt 732 00:31:51,243 --> 00:31:53,577 if there weren't some positive aspects 733 00:31:53,679 --> 00:31:55,078 to being a part of this world. 734 00:31:55,180 --> 00:31:57,814 You know, it's easy for people to judge 735 00:31:57,917 --> 00:31:59,116 when you're not in that situation. 736 00:31:59,218 --> 00:32:00,751 Yeah. 737 00:32:00,853 --> 00:32:05,489 I wanna understand why people would hear these stories 738 00:32:05,591 --> 00:32:07,124 and either not believe the stories, 739 00:32:07,226 --> 00:32:11,828 or believe the stories and still choose to be critical. 740 00:32:11,931 --> 00:32:14,765 Let's get to a tweet from cooper hefner. 741 00:32:14,867 --> 00:32:16,199 And for those that don't know, 742 00:32:16,302 --> 00:32:19,169 cooper hefner is hugh hefner's son with kimberley. 743 00:32:19,271 --> 00:32:24,207 So, um, here's what he had to say on twitter. 744 00:32:24,310 --> 00:32:26,643 "some may not approve of the life my dad chose, 745 00:32:26,745 --> 00:32:28,645 but my father was not a liar. 746 00:32:28,747 --> 00:32:30,781 However unconventional, 747 00:32:30,883 --> 00:32:33,517 he was sincere in his approach and lived honestly. 748 00:32:33,619 --> 00:32:36,320 He was generous in nature and cared deeply for people. 749 00:32:36,422 --> 00:32:37,888 These salacious stories 750 00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:43,126 are a case study of regret becoming revenge." 751 00:32:43,228 --> 00:32:46,997 I... [sighs] he was not in bed with us. 752 00:32:47,099 --> 00:32:49,099 He has no idea what he's talking about. 753 00:32:49,201 --> 00:32:50,934 He wasn't there. 754 00:32:51,036 --> 00:32:56,640 What happened to me was not, um, generous, kind. 755 00:32:56,742 --> 00:32:58,909 -No. -It was nothing but evil. 756 00:32:59,011 --> 00:33:00,877 Yeah. 757 00:33:00,980 --> 00:33:02,646 Here's one of my favorites, 758 00:33:02,748 --> 00:33:04,247 and I've seen this a bunch online. 759 00:33:04,350 --> 00:33:05,716 "hef never did anything bad to me." 760 00:33:05,818 --> 00:33:07,217 yeah. 761 00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:11,321 And to me, that is a strange argument. 762 00:33:11,423 --> 00:33:15,025 Just because somebody never did anything bad to you, 763 00:33:15,127 --> 00:33:17,761 doesn't mean he didn't do something bad to her. 764 00:33:17,863 --> 00:33:20,864 -He targeted vulnerable women. -Mm-hmm. 765 00:33:20,966 --> 00:33:24,434 It was almost like he found a niche in your armor somehow 766 00:33:24,536 --> 00:33:25,902 to put upon you. -Yeah, well, yeah, 767 00:33:26,005 --> 00:33:28,538 we were easy to control, easy to manipulate. 768 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,808 There's a document referred to now as "the manifesto"-- 769 00:33:31,910 --> 00:33:35,379 the hefner manifesto-- that is referred to 770 00:33:35,481 --> 00:33:39,583 by a lot of side commentators about this show. 771 00:33:39,685 --> 00:33:44,788 "the girl next door should smell like soap and be like a bunny." 772 00:33:44,890 --> 00:33:47,891 "when you feel like caressing it, playing with it, 773 00:33:47,993 --> 00:33:49,993 the girl resembles a bunny." 774 00:33:50,095 --> 00:33:52,963 "the sex that we fight for is innocent sex. 775 00:33:53,065 --> 00:33:55,065 Anybody can join." 776 00:33:55,167 --> 00:33:56,333 "consider the girl we made popular-- 777 00:33:56,435 --> 00:33:57,667 the playmate of the month. 778 00:33:57,770 --> 00:33:59,302 She is never sophisticated, 779 00:33:59,405 --> 00:34:02,272 the girl you cannot really have." 780 00:34:02,374 --> 00:34:06,476 "she is a young, healthy, simple girl. 781 00:34:06,578 --> 00:34:09,246 The girl next door." 782 00:34:09,348 --> 00:34:10,547 "we are not interested 783 00:34:10,649 --> 00:34:12,482 in the mysterious, difficult woman." 784 00:34:12,584 --> 00:34:15,085 "the playboy girl has no lace, no underwear. 785 00:34:15,187 --> 00:34:20,957 She's naked, well washed with soap and water... 786 00:34:21,060 --> 00:34:24,694 And she's happy." 787 00:34:24,797 --> 00:34:27,164 and it's why he chose certain girls. 788 00:34:27,266 --> 00:34:29,766 If you're too difficult and too much trouble... 789 00:34:29,868 --> 00:34:31,568 -You're out of there. -...You're out of there. 790 00:34:31,670 --> 00:34:33,470 Why do you think that was, dr. Kate? 791 00:34:33,572 --> 00:34:35,939 Majority of predators, again, are not going to go into their-- 792 00:34:36,041 --> 00:34:39,309 their party and start being abusive in front of people, 793 00:34:39,411 --> 00:34:41,978 because they need to maintain this image 794 00:34:42,081 --> 00:34:46,483 of being the trustworthy, safe, smart, kind, empowering host. 795 00:34:46,585 --> 00:34:47,851 The women who have come forward with these stories 796 00:34:47,953 --> 00:34:50,420 were very, very young, 797 00:34:50,522 --> 00:34:52,389 and there's a naivete that comes with that 798 00:34:52,491 --> 00:34:54,825 no matter how old a soul you might be. 799 00:34:54,927 --> 00:34:57,461 Predators--they don't come with a bulletin board that says, 800 00:34:57,563 --> 00:34:59,029 "here's how I'm gonna hurt you." -yeah. 801 00:34:59,131 --> 00:35:01,998 They go out of their way to convince you 802 00:35:02,101 --> 00:35:04,935 that they are safe and that there's a special bond here. 803 00:35:05,037 --> 00:35:06,703 Here's another one. 804 00:35:06,805 --> 00:35:10,807 Why didn't these women report these abuses earlier? 805 00:35:10,909 --> 00:35:15,712 I didn't want people to look at me and think, "you did what?" 806 00:35:15,814 --> 00:35:17,781 [stammers] I didn't want-- I didn't want them to look at me 807 00:35:17,883 --> 00:35:19,416 and think that I was dirty. 808 00:35:19,518 --> 00:35:21,918 They fear they're not going to be believed, 809 00:35:22,020 --> 00:35:24,454 which was the case for many of the women 810 00:35:24,556 --> 00:35:26,156 who have talked about it now, 811 00:35:26,258 --> 00:35:28,058 and they do feel like they were at fault 812 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,826 or somehow brought it upon themselves, 813 00:35:29,928 --> 00:35:31,962 which is absolutely not true, 814 00:35:32,064 --> 00:35:34,264 but that's how many predators make them feel. 815 00:35:34,366 --> 00:35:37,801 One of the interesting things as we've seen the journey 816 00:35:37,903 --> 00:35:39,603 of so many of these women who have come forward, 817 00:35:39,705 --> 00:35:41,538 women have experienced these buried memories. 818 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,173 Mm-hmm. 819 00:35:43,275 --> 00:35:45,275 Repression is our number one defense mechanism, 820 00:35:45,377 --> 00:35:46,810 so when things are scary, 821 00:35:46,912 --> 00:35:50,680 our mind works overtime to keep them out of view, 822 00:35:50,782 --> 00:35:52,649 and as we see different things 823 00:35:52,751 --> 00:35:54,651 that remind us of that experience, 824 00:35:54,753 --> 00:35:56,186 sometime those memories 825 00:35:56,288 --> 00:35:58,989 can come flooding back really intrusively, 826 00:35:59,091 --> 00:36:00,924 um, and they can be overwhelming. 827 00:36:01,026 --> 00:36:04,194 In my case, this bothers me to this day. 828 00:36:04,296 --> 00:36:06,496 Occasionally, I would get a letter from a woman. 829 00:36:06,598 --> 00:36:08,632 I don't know if you ever got the wives writing you letters, 830 00:36:08,734 --> 00:36:11,535 saying things like, "you know, my husband just thinks 831 00:36:11,637 --> 00:36:14,304 you're the most beautiful woman in the world, 832 00:36:14,406 --> 00:36:16,873 and you know, could you give me any kind of tips? 833 00:36:16,975 --> 00:36:19,209 Because, you know, I wanna look like you." 834 00:36:19,311 --> 00:36:21,611 I'm like, "okay, you wanna look like me? 835 00:36:21,713 --> 00:36:25,348 Then hire a lighting specialist, get, um, someone 836 00:36:25,450 --> 00:36:27,517 that can spend three hours on makeup, 837 00:36:27,619 --> 00:36:31,521 spend $10,000 on a photographer. You'll look just like me." 838 00:36:32,791 --> 00:36:35,792 you never saw yourself look of so pretty.Ion. 839 00:36:35,894 --> 00:36:38,428 It wasn't like people snapped six pictures, 840 00:36:38,530 --> 00:36:40,030 and those six pictures ended up in the magazines. 841 00:36:40,132 --> 00:36:42,332 -[laughs] no. -No. 842 00:36:42,434 --> 00:36:43,767 I remember adding up the rolls of film, 843 00:36:43,869 --> 00:36:47,337 and I came up with 3,000 pictures 844 00:36:47,439 --> 00:36:49,773 for my centerfold. 845 00:36:49,875 --> 00:36:51,575 Of all of those images that you shot, 846 00:36:51,677 --> 00:36:54,044 where did the rest of those images go 847 00:36:54,146 --> 00:36:55,478 that didn't go in "playboy"? 848 00:36:55,581 --> 00:36:57,747 -Who knows? I-- -I know. 849 00:36:57,849 --> 00:36:58,748 Do you? 850 00:36:58,850 --> 00:37:01,384 -You don't know? -No. 851 00:37:01,486 --> 00:37:03,620 They're on dirty porn sites. 852 00:37:03,722 --> 00:37:05,355 ♪♪♪ 853 00:37:08,126 --> 00:37:09,926 after significant financial losses, 854 00:37:10,028 --> 00:37:12,963 in 2011, playboy enterprises sold playboy assets 855 00:37:13,065 --> 00:37:15,398 to a company called mindgeek, 856 00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:18,802 and since then, a lot of former playmates 857 00:37:18,904 --> 00:37:23,607 have seen their explicit images on porn sites-- 858 00:37:23,709 --> 00:37:28,311 places that they never believed their images would end up. 859 00:37:28,413 --> 00:37:31,815 What you're telling me is that you're not in control 860 00:37:31,917 --> 00:37:33,316 of those images. -Oh, no, not at all, 861 00:37:33,418 --> 00:37:35,719 and--and no woman deserves to be on a porn site 862 00:37:35,821 --> 00:37:37,420 unless she wants to be. 863 00:37:37,522 --> 00:37:39,322 I can see you're so upset, susie. 864 00:37:39,424 --> 00:37:42,092 Well, this is very new information. 865 00:37:42,194 --> 00:37:44,728 -I'm sorry. I thought you knew. -I didn't. 866 00:37:44,830 --> 00:37:47,497 -This is news to me. -Our images are used. 867 00:37:47,599 --> 00:37:51,935 We are used as carnival barkers to lure people in. 868 00:37:52,037 --> 00:37:54,504 There are images, and our names are on these sites, 869 00:37:54,606 --> 00:37:56,606 and it looks like we're endorsing this. 870 00:37:56,708 --> 00:37:58,375 What? 871 00:37:58,477 --> 00:38:00,143 They've not only sold our beautiful images. 872 00:38:00,245 --> 00:38:02,279 They sold our outtakes. 873 00:38:02,381 --> 00:38:03,947 What?! 874 00:38:04,049 --> 00:38:05,682 Why are the outtakes so different 875 00:38:05,784 --> 00:38:08,318 than what ends up in the magazine? 876 00:38:08,420 --> 00:38:10,920 Why would you be okay with being nude in the magazine 877 00:38:11,023 --> 00:38:14,991 but not okay with these outtakes being out there in the internet? 878 00:38:15,093 --> 00:38:17,127 -They're graphic. -They're graphic. 879 00:38:17,229 --> 00:38:20,030 Uh, I was told that my pictures were being revered as art. 880 00:38:20,132 --> 00:38:21,665 Yeah. 881 00:38:21,767 --> 00:38:24,267 This is your private, most intimate part of yourself, 882 00:38:24,369 --> 00:38:26,403 and to have that violated like that, 883 00:38:26,505 --> 00:38:30,307 our images being soiled and our legacies... 884 00:38:30,409 --> 00:38:31,574 Did you have a lawyer with you, susie, 885 00:38:31,677 --> 00:38:32,976 when you signed a contract? -No! 886 00:38:33,078 --> 00:38:36,212 First of all, what 19-year-old can afford a lawyer? 887 00:38:36,315 --> 00:38:38,148 -Yeah. -I was in the makeup chair, 888 00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:40,383 and I was handed something saying, "sign this." 889 00:38:40,485 --> 00:38:42,319 yep. Yep. 890 00:38:42,421 --> 00:38:45,121 I didn't--I didn't even have the--the time to read it. 891 00:38:45,223 --> 00:38:47,891 You had your clothes off. You were about ready to go on. 892 00:38:47,993 --> 00:38:50,460 You're--you're nervous, and they stuff it to you like... 893 00:38:50,562 --> 00:38:52,128 -Yep. -...Like they're handing you 894 00:38:52,230 --> 00:38:54,431 a birthday card that everybody's signing for the boss. 895 00:38:54,533 --> 00:38:56,032 And you signed it, and it was gone, 896 00:38:56,134 --> 00:38:58,702 and you never saw it again. 897 00:38:58,804 --> 00:39:00,403 They may have had the legal right to do this, 898 00:39:00,505 --> 00:39:03,540 but they don't-- morally, it is so wrong. 899 00:39:03,642 --> 00:39:07,410 And hef didn't respect his girlfriends' photos either. 900 00:39:07,512 --> 00:39:10,080 Even hefner's private party photos have somehow leaked. 901 00:39:10,182 --> 00:39:12,148 When you would go out with hef, 902 00:39:12,250 --> 00:39:14,451 he's taking all kinds of naked pictures of these women, 903 00:39:14,553 --> 00:39:16,786 when we're wasted out of our minds, 904 00:39:16,888 --> 00:39:19,989 and he would print out, like, eight copies 905 00:39:20,092 --> 00:39:21,491 for him and all the women. 906 00:39:21,593 --> 00:39:24,060 You would pass them around. It's just gross. 907 00:39:24,162 --> 00:39:26,463 There was just this mountain of revenge porn 908 00:39:26,565 --> 00:39:28,298 just waiting to come out. 909 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,868 After holly's episode, hefner's widow crystal wrote, 910 00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:34,170 "I found thousands of those disposable camera photos 911 00:39:34,272 --> 00:39:35,939 you are talking about, holly. 912 00:39:36,041 --> 00:39:38,108 I immediately ripped them up and destroyed 913 00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:40,877 every single one of them for you 914 00:39:40,979 --> 00:39:42,779 and the countless other women in them. 915 00:39:42,881 --> 00:39:44,114 They're gone." 916 00:39:44,216 --> 00:39:46,249 what do you want women at home right now 917 00:39:46,351 --> 00:39:50,153 that are sharing these experiences to do next? 918 00:39:50,255 --> 00:39:52,522 Well, first of all, I want them to know it's not their fault. 919 00:39:52,624 --> 00:39:55,325 It's not their fault. It's his. 920 00:39:55,427 --> 00:39:59,095 And, uh, I hope that they come forward, 921 00:39:59,197 --> 00:40:00,430 because united, we can make a difference. 922 00:40:00,532 --> 00:40:01,831 -That's right. -We can make a difference. 923 00:40:01,933 --> 00:40:03,933 I mean, there's just a few of us right now... 924 00:40:04,035 --> 00:40:05,068 -Mm-hmm. -...That are talking openly 925 00:40:05,170 --> 00:40:08,872 about really embarrassing stuff. -Yeah. 926 00:40:08,974 --> 00:40:11,441 Audrey said that she didn't want to let hugh hefner 927 00:40:11,543 --> 00:40:12,909 get away with it. -Yeah. Yeah. 928 00:40:13,011 --> 00:40:14,244 -That's why she's here. -Uh-huh. 929 00:40:15,247 --> 00:40:16,980 -Oh, yeah,] -doethat's exactly right.Ou? 930 00:40:17,082 --> 00:40:18,481 He cannot get away with this. 931 00:40:18,583 --> 00:40:20,550 You don't want the next generation 932 00:40:20,652 --> 00:40:22,085 of young women to think that that was okay and he was okay. 933 00:40:22,187 --> 00:40:23,820 Yeah, and so they'll fall for the next guy... 934 00:40:23,922 --> 00:40:25,121 -Mm-hmm. -...Who gives them these lines 935 00:40:25,223 --> 00:40:29,159 and you start saying, "no, this isn't right." 936 00:40:29,261 --> 00:40:34,030 that's watching this and-- and give a final message? 937 00:40:34,132 --> 00:40:36,833 It's time for them to stand up for their daughters 938 00:40:36,935 --> 00:40:39,102 so that it won't happen to them. 939 00:40:39,204 --> 00:40:41,871 They need to, uh, take their power back, 940 00:40:41,973 --> 00:40:45,975 I think in order to become fully who they were supposed to be. 941 00:40:46,077 --> 00:40:49,379 We really need to stop idolizing a man 942 00:40:49,481 --> 00:40:53,283 who I can tell you was a rapist. 943 00:40:53,385 --> 00:40:54,751 I don't need it to sign any legal documents. 944 00:40:54,853 --> 00:40:56,719 That's my testimony. 945 00:40:56,822 --> 00:40:59,456 We're not the bad guys here. 946 00:40:59,558 --> 00:41:01,224 We didn't do these awful things. He did. 947 00:41:01,326 --> 00:41:04,360 We're not rewriting history. We're just writing it. 948 00:41:04,463 --> 00:41:06,129 -Yeah. -And we're never been allowed 949 00:41:06,231 --> 00:41:08,231 to tell our story, and it's our time. 950 00:41:08,333 --> 00:41:09,866 ♪♪♪ 951 00:41:09,968 --> 00:41:11,835 we are strong. 952 00:41:11,937 --> 00:41:12,969 [laughter] 953 00:41:13,071 --> 00:41:15,438 ♪♪♪