1 00:00:08,550 --> 00:00:10,260 GUERRERO: In the early 2000s, 2 00:00:10,385 --> 00:00:11,965 "Girls Next Door" was one 3 00:00:12,054 --> 00:00:14,934 of the most popular reality shows on TV. 4 00:00:15,057 --> 00:00:18,097 We all fell in love with those blonde girls next door, 5 00:00:18,227 --> 00:00:20,397 and we also fell in love with Hugh Hefner. 6 00:00:20,521 --> 00:00:23,611 That world seemed fun and innocent, 7 00:00:23,732 --> 00:00:26,282 and the girls were pretty fun to watch. 8 00:00:26,401 --> 00:00:28,951 In the final season of the show, two twins, 9 00:00:29,071 --> 00:00:32,951 Karissa and Kristina Shannon, played two of Hef’s girlfriends. 10 00:00:33,075 --> 00:00:35,795 -Hi. I’m Kristina. -I’m Karissa. 11 00:00:35,911 --> 00:00:37,451 After the "Secrets of Playboy," 12 00:00:37,579 --> 00:00:39,329 they decided to finally come forward 13 00:00:39,414 --> 00:00:41,794 and share their story. 14 00:00:41,917 --> 00:00:43,787 And we’re about to hear a side of their story 15 00:00:43,919 --> 00:00:46,839 that they have never told until today. 16 00:00:46,922 --> 00:00:50,222 It’s like you’re in a cult. The isolation that I had-- 17 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:51,630 I was a shell of a person. 18 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,970 Hef doesn’t like to use protection. 19 00:00:54,096 --> 00:00:56,096 There was at one point an STD that went around. 20 00:00:56,223 --> 00:00:58,983 I got a call saying, like, "Hey, you’re pregnant." 21 00:00:59,101 --> 00:01:00,731 I didn’t want any part of it. 22 00:01:00,811 --> 00:01:03,811 He’s just a creepy old man 23 00:01:03,939 --> 00:01:05,649 with power. 24 00:01:05,774 --> 00:01:10,114 ♪ 25 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,660 ♪ 26 00:01:15,784 --> 00:01:19,044 You know, I’ve been fascinated 27 00:01:19,121 --> 00:01:21,711 with, uh, your stories, because although 28 00:01:21,790 --> 00:01:24,170 I’m a chief investigative correspondent 29 00:01:24,293 --> 00:01:25,383 on "Inside Edition"... 30 00:01:25,460 --> 00:01:27,210 Why would you try to take advantage 31 00:01:27,296 --> 00:01:29,336 of young women like this? 32 00:01:29,464 --> 00:01:31,844 ...when I was 20 and 21, I used to be a "Playboy" model. 33 00:01:31,967 --> 00:01:33,837 I shot for "Playboy" lingerie, 34 00:01:33,969 --> 00:01:35,679 and then eventually I did a cover... 35 00:01:35,804 --> 00:01:37,514 -Oh, wow. I didn’t... -...in 2006. 36 00:01:37,639 --> 00:01:40,519 And there are so many questions I wanna ask you. 37 00:01:40,642 --> 00:01:43,852 I think the best way to do this is to just talk about 38 00:01:43,979 --> 00:01:45,519 how you got there to begin with 39 00:01:45,647 --> 00:01:47,267 and a little bit about your background. 40 00:01:47,357 --> 00:01:49,397 Tell me about your childhood and--and how you grew up 41 00:01:49,484 --> 00:01:51,034 and where you grew up. 42 00:01:51,153 --> 00:01:52,703 We were three months premature. 43 00:01:52,821 --> 00:01:54,781 We were born in Ann Arbor, Michigan. 44 00:01:54,865 --> 00:01:58,375 Our biological mom was never involved in our lives. 45 00:01:58,493 --> 00:01:59,993 We didn’t even get to really know our father. 46 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,000 -He was very abusive. -We always think to ourselves 47 00:02:03,081 --> 00:02:05,711 we were born into this life together because we knew 48 00:02:05,834 --> 00:02:08,094 we were gonna need each other. -We were gonna... 49 00:02:08,170 --> 00:02:12,590 That’s so sweet, and that’s, um, that’s really sad. 50 00:02:12,674 --> 00:02:15,144 Our father’s side is the one who raised us, 51 00:02:15,218 --> 00:02:17,468 so when we refer to "Mom," that’s--it’s our grandma. 52 00:02:17,554 --> 00:02:19,104 -Your grandma. -Annette. 53 00:02:19,181 --> 00:02:21,681 Yeah, our grandma. But she’s "Mom" to us. 54 00:02:21,808 --> 00:02:23,058 And where did you grow up? 55 00:02:23,185 --> 00:02:25,405 We moved to Clearwater Beach, Florida, 56 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,520 with our grandmother. 57 00:02:27,648 --> 00:02:30,898 She was really, like, our stability, our foundation. 58 00:02:31,026 --> 00:02:33,856 When my grandfather passed away of cancer, 59 00:02:33,987 --> 00:02:36,107 he had left her under a mountain of debt, 60 00:02:36,198 --> 00:02:38,618 so we ended up having to move off of Clearwater Beach 61 00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:40,580 and into a trailer park in Florida. 62 00:02:40,702 --> 00:02:42,952 -For four years. -For four years. 63 00:02:43,038 --> 00:02:45,868 Basically, school wasn’t an option for us. 64 00:02:45,999 --> 00:02:47,629 We had to drop out and get jobs. 65 00:02:47,709 --> 00:02:49,749 We worked at WingHouse as waitresses, 66 00:02:49,878 --> 00:02:51,298 which is the same exact outfit like Hooters. 67 00:02:51,380 --> 00:02:53,460 You have a dolphin short. 68 00:02:53,548 --> 00:02:55,258 And we always wanted to be models, 69 00:02:55,384 --> 00:02:58,604 so this was like the beginning of our modeling career, 70 00:02:58,720 --> 00:02:59,970 is being able to be like WingHouse girls, 71 00:03:00,055 --> 00:03:03,935 doing commercials, menus, billboards. 72 00:03:04,059 --> 00:03:05,439 Wings, beer, and atmosphere. 73 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,440 BOTH: And yes, we’re identical twins. 74 00:03:07,562 --> 00:03:09,772 ALL: Need we say more? 75 00:03:09,898 --> 00:03:12,148 How old were you when you first started working for WingHouse? 76 00:03:12,234 --> 00:03:13,864 BOTH: 15. 77 00:03:13,944 --> 00:03:15,784 And you kind of considered this glamorous. 78 00:03:15,904 --> 00:03:17,114 -Yeah. -Yeah. 79 00:03:17,239 --> 00:03:18,869 So we were like, "This could be our chance." 80 00:03:18,949 --> 00:03:20,279 Yeah. 81 00:03:20,409 --> 00:03:22,699 At what point did you start watching "Girls Next Door"? 82 00:03:22,786 --> 00:03:23,946 -15, 16. -So I think that’s when 83 00:03:24,079 --> 00:03:26,459 we were hostessing. We were fans of the show. 84 00:03:26,581 --> 00:03:27,751 We were very much fans, yeah. 85 00:03:27,874 --> 00:03:29,964 And we loved Kendra and most identified with her. 86 00:03:30,085 --> 00:03:31,755 ’Cause she was the younger one. She liked rap. 87 00:03:31,878 --> 00:03:34,128 She was more like hip-hop like us. 88 00:03:34,256 --> 00:03:35,666 We liked rap music. 89 00:03:35,757 --> 00:03:39,297 This is interesting because the fan base was young women. 90 00:03:39,428 --> 00:03:40,638 We knew there would be some interest 91 00:03:40,762 --> 00:03:42,062 because it was the Playboy Mansion. 92 00:03:42,139 --> 00:03:44,519 What I did not anticipate was how 93 00:03:44,599 --> 00:03:46,139 hugely popular it would become, and particularly, 94 00:03:46,268 --> 00:03:47,938 how hugely popular with young women. 95 00:03:48,061 --> 00:03:50,481 We wanted to have their boobs. We wanted to, like, 96 00:03:50,605 --> 00:03:51,855 we were dirty blonde naturally. 97 00:03:51,940 --> 00:03:53,320 We wanted to have platinum blonde hair. 98 00:03:53,442 --> 00:03:54,652 So the Playboy Mansion-- 99 00:03:54,776 --> 00:03:56,316 I’m, like, it just looks like heaven. 100 00:03:56,445 --> 00:04:00,165 It’s like you’re royalty there, and Hef looks so nice. 101 00:04:00,282 --> 00:04:03,622 You viewed the Mansion as an adult Disneyland. 102 00:04:03,744 --> 00:04:05,334 -Yes, exactly. -Yeah. 103 00:04:05,454 --> 00:04:07,044 Did you ever think that you 104 00:04:07,122 --> 00:04:10,082 would end up on "Girls Next Door"? 105 00:04:10,167 --> 00:04:11,497 No, not at all. 106 00:04:11,626 --> 00:04:13,206 We just wanted to be models, but, um, 107 00:04:13,295 --> 00:04:15,345 when we were watching "The Girls Next Door," 108 00:04:15,464 --> 00:04:16,974 and we were modeling for WingHouse, 109 00:04:17,090 --> 00:04:18,510 the photographer’s, like, 110 00:04:18,633 --> 00:04:21,263 "Hey, I know how to get girls into ’Playboy.’" 111 00:04:21,344 --> 00:04:22,854 "And, like, do a photo shoot and submit your photos." 112 00:04:22,971 --> 00:04:25,181 "And do a photo shoot and submit your photos." 113 00:04:25,307 --> 00:04:26,387 -How old were you? -BOTH: 17. 114 00:04:26,475 --> 00:04:28,065 -17. -BOTH: Mm-hmm. 115 00:04:28,143 --> 00:04:29,733 So you’re underage. 116 00:04:29,811 --> 00:04:30,851 -Underage, yeah. -Mm-hmm. 117 00:04:30,979 --> 00:04:32,689 Asked if you would be willing 118 00:04:32,814 --> 00:04:34,614 to take nude pictures to send to "Playboy." 119 00:04:34,691 --> 00:04:35,571 -Yeah. Yeah. -Correct. 120 00:04:35,650 --> 00:04:37,030 Now do you remember 121 00:04:37,152 --> 00:04:41,362 the first time that you posed for "Playboy"? 122 00:04:41,490 --> 00:04:43,280 We were flown out to Miami for a test shoot. 123 00:04:43,366 --> 00:04:46,486 -We had just turned 18. -Mm-hmm. 124 00:04:46,620 --> 00:04:48,080 And, um, it was tasteful. 125 00:04:48,163 --> 00:04:49,873 That was al the first time that I looked at a, 126 00:04:49,998 --> 00:04:53,168 you know, a monitor and seen we’re actually beautiful. 127 00:04:53,293 --> 00:04:54,543 -I’ve never had, you know... -Hair and makeup done. 128 00:04:54,669 --> 00:04:56,629 ...professional hair and makeup and all that. 129 00:04:56,713 --> 00:04:59,763 And it’s like, oh, my gosh. We are gorgeous. 130 00:04:59,841 --> 00:05:03,551 What happens next? How do you actually get out to the Mansion? 131 00:05:03,678 --> 00:05:05,848 Halfway through the test shoot in Miami, 132 00:05:05,972 --> 00:05:07,562 they were sending the photos over, 133 00:05:07,682 --> 00:05:08,732 and all of a sudden, we see 134 00:05:08,850 --> 00:05:10,560 the photographer talking really fast 135 00:05:10,685 --> 00:05:12,395 to someone on the phone. 136 00:05:12,521 --> 00:05:13,981 Then all of a sudden, they just quit, and they’re like, 137 00:05:14,064 --> 00:05:16,574 "Hefner likes them. He wants ’em there." 138 00:05:16,691 --> 00:05:17,781 And we were like... [gasps] 139 00:05:17,859 --> 00:05:19,739 "Oh, my God. So we’re Playmates? Did we make it?" 140 00:05:19,861 --> 00:05:21,491 And they’re like, "Oh, yeah, you made it." 141 00:05:21,571 --> 00:05:23,571 -Oh, my gosh. Hef loves them. -They said Hef loved the photos. 142 00:05:23,698 --> 00:05:25,698 They said Holly loved the photos. 143 00:05:25,826 --> 00:05:26,736 That must have been an amazing feeling. 144 00:05:26,868 --> 00:05:28,788 -It was. -It really was. 145 00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:31,120 They ended up reaching out to us. 146 00:05:31,206 --> 00:05:32,616 Holly called, actually, 147 00:05:32,707 --> 00:05:34,747 and she said, "Oh, you made ’Playboy’ Playmate," 148 00:05:34,876 --> 00:05:37,376 and they wanted us to fly out to California to shoot 149 00:05:37,504 --> 00:05:39,464 55th anniversary on the TV show. 150 00:05:39,548 --> 00:05:40,758 And we... [laughs] So we quit our job. 151 00:05:40,882 --> 00:05:42,092 We quit WingHouse, 152 00:05:42,217 --> 00:05:43,467 put together two luggage bags, 153 00:05:43,552 --> 00:05:45,392 and we’re just getting ready to go to California. 154 00:05:45,512 --> 00:05:47,972 And then on top of it, you’re going to the Playboy Mansion, 155 00:05:48,056 --> 00:05:51,596 and you’re gonna be shooting a TV show, 156 00:05:51,726 --> 00:05:54,436 and you’re gonna be part of the 55th anniversary search. 157 00:05:54,563 --> 00:05:55,943 It was a big deal. 158 00:05:56,064 --> 00:05:58,324 We had the Hef 1 limo pick us up... 159 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,440 -They miked us. -...from the airport. 160 00:06:00,569 --> 00:06:01,989 -Miked us right away. -Yeah. 161 00:06:02,070 --> 00:06:03,650 So when we first drove up 162 00:06:03,738 --> 00:06:06,158 and saw the Mansion gates opening, 163 00:06:06,241 --> 00:06:08,621 this is what we saw on TV. ♪ Come on-a my house ♪ 164 00:06:08,743 --> 00:06:10,453 BOTH: ♪ My house ♪ 165 00:06:10,579 --> 00:06:12,249 Driving up, it was like you’re in TV land. 166 00:06:12,372 --> 00:06:13,922 It just didn’t seem real. 167 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,250 It’s like "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory." 168 00:06:15,375 --> 00:06:16,495 You’re like, oh, my God. I’m here. 169 00:06:16,585 --> 00:06:18,345 Or you’re like, the golden ticket. 170 00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:19,460 You know what I mean? Like, oh, my God. 171 00:06:19,588 --> 00:06:20,958 I got the golden ticket. 172 00:06:21,089 --> 00:06:22,879 And we’re just driving up to shoot our centerfold, 173 00:06:22,966 --> 00:06:25,336 and then they, like, stopped at the security gate, 174 00:06:25,427 --> 00:06:26,797 and they were like, 175 00:06:26,928 --> 00:06:28,138 "Okay, we’re gonna film you guys getting out," 176 00:06:28,263 --> 00:06:29,353 and they just started directing you right away, 177 00:06:29,431 --> 00:06:30,851 And we just signed a release form. 178 00:06:30,932 --> 00:06:33,182 They’re like, "You guys are gonna sign this release form." 179 00:06:33,268 --> 00:06:34,728 Did you read it before you signed it? 180 00:06:34,811 --> 00:06:36,151 No. 181 00:06:36,271 --> 00:06:37,441 Never read a contract in our life. 182 00:06:37,564 --> 00:06:38,984 -Didn’t know what we were doing. -We just--We were 18. 183 00:06:39,107 --> 00:06:40,817 Once you’re there and you’re seeing, like, 184 00:06:40,942 --> 00:06:42,822 it’s like don’t meet your hero behind the curtain or whatever, 185 00:06:42,944 --> 00:06:45,284 that’s, like, totally what it was. 186 00:06:45,405 --> 00:06:47,485 It just started becoming a job right away. 187 00:06:47,616 --> 00:06:48,946 I remember seeing Holly for the first time, 188 00:06:49,075 --> 00:06:52,945 and it was a completely different person. 189 00:06:53,079 --> 00:06:54,329 What do you mean? 190 00:06:54,456 --> 00:06:55,706 Like, before the cameraman would get her walking 191 00:06:55,790 --> 00:06:57,330 into the house, she’d just be like, you know, 192 00:06:57,459 --> 00:06:58,999 sitting there, you know, fixing her lipstick or whatever. 193 00:06:59,127 --> 00:07:00,377 Drinking. 194 00:07:00,462 --> 00:07:02,512 -Wouldn’t even talk to you. -You know? 195 00:07:02,631 --> 00:07:03,671 And then when the cameras would go up, 196 00:07:03,798 --> 00:07:05,678 she’s just back into character again. 197 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,340 All of it was for sure fake. 198 00:07:07,469 --> 00:07:11,469 And that’s one thing that Hef was a genius at--was his image. 199 00:07:11,598 --> 00:07:13,468 -You thought it was fake. -Mm-hmm. 200 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,560 You didn’t think that he was really sleeping 201 00:07:15,644 --> 00:07:17,654 with these young girls. 202 00:07:17,771 --> 00:07:19,111 Hell, no. You don’t think an 80-year-old man 203 00:07:19,189 --> 00:07:21,519 is sleeping with three of these women. 204 00:07:21,650 --> 00:07:22,530 Did it, uh, occur to you at some point 205 00:07:22,651 --> 00:07:25,191 that the girls had boyfriends? 206 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,360 I actually thought that Holly, 207 00:07:27,489 --> 00:07:28,989 since she was the main girlfriend, 208 00:07:29,115 --> 00:07:31,825 I thought that she, you know, was really trying to marry Hef. 209 00:07:31,952 --> 00:07:36,462 For Bridget, I kinda feel like she was just Holly’s sidekick, 210 00:07:36,539 --> 00:07:37,869 But with Kendra, you could totally tell that 211 00:07:37,999 --> 00:07:40,709 she had dated on the side. 212 00:07:40,835 --> 00:07:45,085 Was it starting to occur to you that these three women 213 00:07:45,173 --> 00:07:46,803 were on their way out the door, 214 00:07:46,883 --> 00:07:49,843 and they were gonna be looking for new girlfriends? 215 00:07:49,970 --> 00:07:51,720 We didn’t think they were leaving at all. 216 00:07:51,846 --> 00:07:54,426 Okay, so then from there, you go home. 217 00:07:54,516 --> 00:07:55,676 And then what happened? 218 00:07:55,809 --> 00:07:58,809 Yeah, so Hef wrote a letter, old school, 219 00:07:58,895 --> 00:08:01,605 and he said, "I would love for you guys to be my girlfriends 220 00:08:01,690 --> 00:08:05,070 and to move in with me 221 00:08:05,193 --> 00:08:07,533 and film ’The Girls Next Door’ show." 222 00:08:07,654 --> 00:08:09,704 So when we got the letter, we were like, 223 00:08:09,823 --> 00:08:11,413 of course, we’re gonna go. 224 00:08:11,533 --> 00:08:14,123 You knew what it meant to have a boyfriend... 225 00:08:14,202 --> 00:08:15,242 -Mm-hmm. -...which is, at your age now, 226 00:08:15,370 --> 00:08:16,410 a sexual relationship. 227 00:08:16,538 --> 00:08:17,618 -Mm-hmm. -Right. 228 00:08:17,706 --> 00:08:20,576 Did you view the words in that letter 229 00:08:20,709 --> 00:08:21,749 as something sexual? -No. [laughs] 230 00:08:21,876 --> 00:08:23,456 No. No, no, no. Not at all. [laughs] 231 00:08:23,545 --> 00:08:25,555 When he said--when he said to move in and be girlfriends 232 00:08:25,672 --> 00:08:26,962 and live at the Mansion... 233 00:08:27,048 --> 00:08:28,418 We were girlfriends on the show. 234 00:08:28,550 --> 00:08:30,760 ...we thought, okay, come be part of the TV show. 235 00:08:30,885 --> 00:08:33,425 You thought you were gonna be cast members in a TV show. 236 00:08:33,555 --> 00:08:34,975 -Yeah. Exactly. -Exactly. 237 00:08:35,056 --> 00:08:37,266 It was the best thing that’s gonna happen to us from the life 238 00:08:37,392 --> 00:08:39,232 that we were coming from. This was insanely huge. 239 00:08:39,352 --> 00:08:40,942 So you joined the show. 240 00:08:41,062 --> 00:08:42,942 How soon afterwards do you realize 241 00:08:43,064 --> 00:08:44,274 that you’re supposed to have 242 00:08:44,399 --> 00:08:46,979 a relationship with Hef off-camera? 243 00:08:47,068 --> 00:08:48,948 Almost six months we were there. 244 00:08:49,070 --> 00:08:51,360 So during that six months... 245 00:08:51,448 --> 00:08:52,618 The other girls were transitioning out. 246 00:08:52,741 --> 00:08:54,161 ...the other girls, the old Girls Next Door 247 00:08:54,242 --> 00:08:55,912 were transitioning out, so, like, we would hear 248 00:08:56,036 --> 00:08:57,906 on speakerphone, Kendra ordering, like, pasta 249 00:08:57,996 --> 00:09:00,956 and all the stuff and we were like, what the hell? 250 00:09:01,082 --> 00:09:02,712 She was pregnant, and we didn’t know. 251 00:09:02,792 --> 00:09:04,632 So we were, like, we heard that, like, we were, like, 252 00:09:04,753 --> 00:09:07,513 understanding Holly’s staying in a separate bedroom now. 253 00:09:07,589 --> 00:09:11,629 And on our 19th birthday, we all went out to a club, 254 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,100 and that was the night that realized we were... 255 00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:15,890 -What we got ourselves into. -...what we got ourselves into. 256 00:09:15,972 --> 00:09:17,642 Like, this is what it is. 257 00:09:17,766 --> 00:09:20,516 So you turn 19, and you all go out. 258 00:09:20,602 --> 00:09:21,852 And what happens next? 259 00:09:21,936 --> 00:09:23,306 We had a bunch of the Playmates 260 00:09:23,438 --> 00:09:24,858 that are shooting from our year. 261 00:09:24,939 --> 00:09:26,649 Holly was with us. Kendra was with us. 262 00:09:26,775 --> 00:09:27,985 We were all going out 263 00:09:28,109 --> 00:09:30,489 to a nightclub for our 19th birthday. 264 00:09:30,612 --> 00:09:33,662 And we were drinking, and then on the way back, 265 00:09:33,782 --> 00:09:35,662 Kendra in the limo is like, "You guys wanna smoke weed? 266 00:09:35,784 --> 00:09:37,494 Do you guys smoke weed?" 267 00:09:37,619 --> 00:09:39,119 And we’re like, "Hell, yeah, we smoke weed." 268 00:09:39,245 --> 00:09:40,655 So we get back to the Mansion, and we went upstairs 269 00:09:40,789 --> 00:09:43,709 to smoke weed in Hef’s room. 270 00:09:43,792 --> 00:09:46,672 And at the time, Holly was not in there. 271 00:09:46,795 --> 00:09:51,345 So it was me, Karissa, Kendra, and Hef. 272 00:09:51,466 --> 00:09:52,836 But when we all went to go smoke pot, 273 00:09:52,967 --> 00:09:55,507 Kendra didn’t smoke. 274 00:09:55,637 --> 00:09:57,677 So she leaves right when we’re all going to smoke pot. 275 00:09:57,806 --> 00:10:01,346 It was just me, you, and Hef, and he knew we were nervous. 276 00:10:01,476 --> 00:10:03,096 We were super nervous when Kendra left. 277 00:10:03,186 --> 00:10:04,306 -We didn’t feel comfortable. -Super nervous ’cause... 278 00:10:04,437 --> 00:10:06,477 and then he says, "Hey, you could take this. 279 00:10:06,606 --> 00:10:08,686 It will make... You won’t be so nervous." 280 00:10:08,817 --> 00:10:10,187 Hugh Hefner offers you a pill. 281 00:10:10,318 --> 00:10:11,278 -Pills. -Mm-hmm. 282 00:10:11,361 --> 00:10:12,701 And... 283 00:10:12,821 --> 00:10:14,201 There were a couple pills in his hand. 284 00:10:14,322 --> 00:10:15,952 -A couple of pills. -Mm-hmm. 285 00:10:16,032 --> 00:10:17,532 -Do you take them? -BOTH: Yeah. 286 00:10:17,659 --> 00:10:18,909 -You took them. -Yeah. 287 00:10:18,993 --> 00:10:21,543 -He’s 83. You’re 19. -Correct. 288 00:10:21,663 --> 00:10:23,043 So did you think that you would be having sex 289 00:10:23,164 --> 00:10:25,214 with Hugh Hefner that night? 290 00:10:25,333 --> 00:10:26,463 BOTH: No. 291 00:10:26,543 --> 00:10:28,753 -Not at all. No. -Mnh-mnh. 292 00:10:33,883 --> 00:10:36,433 So it’s your 19th birthday. You’ve been to the club. 293 00:10:36,511 --> 00:10:38,101 You’ve been drinking, 294 00:10:38,179 --> 00:10:39,559 and now you’ve accepted pills, 295 00:10:39,681 --> 00:10:41,351 and you don’t really know what those are, 296 00:10:41,474 --> 00:10:43,934 from Hugh Hefner. 297 00:10:44,018 --> 00:10:45,938 How are you feeling at this point? 298 00:10:46,020 --> 00:10:48,770 [bleep] up. Like... 299 00:10:48,857 --> 00:10:50,937 Really hazy and just, like, laying-- 300 00:10:51,025 --> 00:10:53,235 The most inebriated we’ve ever been. 301 00:10:53,361 --> 00:10:56,321 We were wasted. 302 00:10:56,406 --> 00:10:58,526 So when we got back, we were smoking pot, 303 00:10:58,658 --> 00:11:01,488 taking pills, and just... 304 00:11:01,578 --> 00:11:02,908 We’re just gone. 305 00:11:03,037 --> 00:11:05,617 [laughs] 306 00:11:05,707 --> 00:11:08,667 So that night when we did get back to his room, 307 00:11:08,751 --> 00:11:11,131 we put on the pajamas and all that, you know? 308 00:11:11,212 --> 00:11:15,762 Um, I just remember me being on one side of him, 309 00:11:15,884 --> 00:11:18,434 Karissa being on the other side of him. 310 00:11:18,553 --> 00:11:22,603 He was pulling our heads down, like a very hard pull 311 00:11:22,724 --> 00:11:25,814 down to his penis so that we would give him oral sex. 312 00:11:25,894 --> 00:11:28,654 ♪ 313 00:11:28,730 --> 00:11:31,980 And that was our 19th birthday. You’re never gonna forget that. 314 00:11:32,066 --> 00:11:34,146 ♪ 315 00:11:34,235 --> 00:11:38,985 We had never done a threesome together before. 316 00:11:39,073 --> 00:11:40,993 We’d never want to. 317 00:11:41,075 --> 00:11:43,985 He didn’t-- he didn’t even finish. 318 00:11:44,078 --> 00:11:45,828 Just imagine this. Just imagine his old hand, 319 00:11:45,914 --> 00:11:48,674 and it kind of shakes, touching a boob. 320 00:11:48,750 --> 00:11:51,670 It’s gross. It’s like you’re having sex with your grandpa. 321 00:11:51,753 --> 00:11:54,053 And he laid there looking up, and he was like, 322 00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:57,720 "My babies. My babies. See, you love me." 323 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,510 We were watching the clock next to his bed, 324 00:12:00,595 --> 00:12:02,815 and it was like 4 a.m., 5 a.m., 325 00:12:02,931 --> 00:12:05,021 We’re waiting for him to fall asleep. He falls asleep. 326 00:12:05,099 --> 00:12:06,349 We ran down the hall 327 00:12:06,434 --> 00:12:07,484 to the spare bedroom that we were in. 328 00:12:07,602 --> 00:12:10,522 We hit the shower, steaming hot, 329 00:12:10,605 --> 00:12:12,655 and, like, our skin was red from just trying to, like... 330 00:12:12,774 --> 00:12:14,654 BOTH: Sterilize. 331 00:12:14,776 --> 00:12:16,436 Wow. 332 00:12:16,569 --> 00:12:19,699 After that night, I didn’t feel like my body was mine anymore. 333 00:12:19,781 --> 00:12:22,411 Like, I felt used, disgusted. 334 00:12:22,492 --> 00:12:25,702 Yeah, like, I didn’t wanna, you know, call my mom 335 00:12:25,787 --> 00:12:27,037 and tell her anything. 336 00:12:27,121 --> 00:12:28,371 -And now-- -Both of us said 337 00:12:28,456 --> 00:12:30,036 he’s going straight to hell. -Oh, we both, like, 338 00:12:30,124 --> 00:12:31,334 he’s the Devil. This is insane. 339 00:12:31,459 --> 00:12:34,209 We were disgusted with ourselves. 340 00:12:34,295 --> 00:12:38,045 Why did you feel like you had to do it? 341 00:12:38,132 --> 00:12:42,052 Coming from our abusive father 342 00:12:42,136 --> 00:12:45,256 and our biological mom leaving, 343 00:12:45,348 --> 00:12:46,808 we really felt like we had to take care 344 00:12:46,933 --> 00:12:49,733 of our grandmother who raised us, 345 00:12:49,811 --> 00:12:51,731 and we didn’t want him to take away 346 00:12:51,813 --> 00:12:53,063 all of the success that we had built. 347 00:12:53,147 --> 00:12:56,397 We thought he’d revoke our centerfold. 348 00:12:56,484 --> 00:12:57,494 There was no going back. 349 00:12:57,610 --> 00:12:59,400 You couldn’t-- we couldn’t leave. 350 00:12:59,487 --> 00:13:02,567 ♪ 351 00:13:02,657 --> 00:13:07,577 I believe that Hef would prey on the younger girls like us 352 00:13:07,662 --> 00:13:09,752 who came from a bad background 353 00:13:09,831 --> 00:13:12,421 or the girls who were not so pretty-- 354 00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:13,920 he could promise them, like, 355 00:13:14,002 --> 00:13:15,422 "Oh, here’s this beautiful castle, and you know, 356 00:13:15,503 --> 00:13:18,763 I have all these surgeons," and he can make them beautiful 357 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,430 or give them an option to do "Playboy," 358 00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:24,429 or, like, provide this Playboy family to you. 359 00:13:24,512 --> 00:13:28,102 Did it occur to you that he was grooming you? 360 00:13:28,182 --> 00:13:29,432 BOTH: Yeah. 361 00:13:29,517 --> 00:13:31,937 For sure. That--I think that’s how he does it. 362 00:13:32,020 --> 00:13:33,600 ’Cause we were only 18, turning 19. 363 00:13:33,688 --> 00:13:35,478 Mm-hmm. 364 00:13:35,565 --> 00:13:36,905 We were just learning and wanted to be women, 365 00:13:37,025 --> 00:13:39,285 and, like, we’ve never even had bleach in our hair. 366 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:40,820 We don’t know about makeup. 367 00:13:40,903 --> 00:13:44,033 He really is grooming us, completely. 368 00:13:44,157 --> 00:13:46,617 Everything’s yes. You, like, get to eat what you want. 369 00:13:46,701 --> 00:13:47,791 The butlers are calling you. 370 00:13:47,869 --> 00:13:49,249 You can have alcohol on a platter. 371 00:13:49,370 --> 00:13:53,120 I’m like, "Oh, Patrón and pineapple, hell, yeah!" 372 00:13:53,207 --> 00:13:56,787 When we moved in, we got media training. 373 00:13:56,878 --> 00:13:57,798 I wanna talk about that for a second. 374 00:13:57,879 --> 00:13:59,919 -Mm-hmm. -What is media training? 375 00:14:00,048 --> 00:14:02,258 What did you understand it to be? 376 00:14:02,383 --> 00:14:04,473 They would just explain to us, you know, how to, um, 377 00:14:04,552 --> 00:14:08,472 answer certain questions and how to dodge certain questions. 378 00:14:08,556 --> 00:14:11,976 That would come up, like, the sister question. 379 00:14:12,060 --> 00:14:14,480 What is the sister question? 380 00:14:14,562 --> 00:14:17,652 Well, a lot of people would say we were incest 381 00:14:17,732 --> 00:14:20,822 ’cause we were both with him. 382 00:14:20,902 --> 00:14:21,902 So they would say, you know... 383 00:14:22,028 --> 00:14:24,148 They’d think we were hooking up. 384 00:14:24,238 --> 00:14:25,738 So, like, those type of questions, 385 00:14:25,865 --> 00:14:28,155 and it’s kind of going with grooming you on how to act. 386 00:14:28,242 --> 00:14:32,162 Is it kind of weird maybe kissing your boyfriend 387 00:14:32,246 --> 00:14:34,326 after he’s kissed your sister? 388 00:14:34,415 --> 00:14:35,455 -No. -Not at all? 389 00:14:35,583 --> 00:14:37,843 Mnh-mnh. 390 00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:39,749 Ahh! [laughs] It’s called acting. 391 00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:41,799 So they kind of warned you 392 00:14:41,923 --> 00:14:44,343 that this is what the press is gonna be asking you. 393 00:14:44,425 --> 00:14:45,545 -Mm-hmm. -Well-- 394 00:14:45,635 --> 00:14:47,345 And here’s what to say, ’cause-- 395 00:14:47,428 --> 00:14:49,508 What we didn’t realize, though, is he was protecting his image. 396 00:14:49,597 --> 00:14:51,847 They’re training us to protect... 397 00:14:51,933 --> 00:14:53,023 BOTH: His image. 398 00:14:53,101 --> 00:14:54,851 It was not about us. 399 00:14:54,936 --> 00:14:58,186 Okay, so you guys say that you partied a lot 400 00:14:58,272 --> 00:14:59,362 at the Mansion. 401 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:00,860 So let’s take a look at this clip, 402 00:15:00,942 --> 00:15:03,862 and you tell me what was happening here. 403 00:15:03,945 --> 00:15:07,365 ♪ 404 00:15:07,448 --> 00:15:09,698 Kristina, we have to practice. Kristina! 405 00:15:09,784 --> 00:15:12,544 ♪ 406 00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:13,700 Kristina, get up. 407 00:15:13,788 --> 00:15:15,868 We were drunk every night, 408 00:15:15,957 --> 00:15:17,037 so it was hard to get up in the morning 409 00:15:17,125 --> 00:15:18,885 and have to do everything. 410 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,840 -You were drunk every night? -Every night to deal with him. 411 00:15:21,963 --> 00:15:23,553 Wake up in the morning. 412 00:15:23,631 --> 00:15:25,511 Especially Kristina. I-I have to get her up sometimes. 413 00:15:25,633 --> 00:15:27,723 -That was an all-nighter. -Yeah. 414 00:15:27,802 --> 00:15:30,552 Dinner started at 5 every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, 415 00:15:30,638 --> 00:15:32,718 so at dinner is when we would start drinking. 416 00:15:32,807 --> 00:15:34,597 They had open bar. 417 00:15:34,684 --> 00:15:36,234 We would start drinking just in case 418 00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:38,650 Hef wanted to apply that pressure. 419 00:15:38,771 --> 00:15:42,231 We’d party just like normal, and he’s like, 420 00:15:42,316 --> 00:15:45,566 "Obviously, you girls don’t wanna sleep in my bedroom" 421 00:15:45,653 --> 00:15:48,283 because he realized we were 422 00:15:48,364 --> 00:15:49,824 waiting for him to fall asleep and leave. 423 00:15:49,949 --> 00:15:52,239 He’s, like, not waking up with the twins next to him. 424 00:15:52,326 --> 00:15:54,406 So he’s like, "We need someone else." 425 00:15:54,495 --> 00:15:56,905 [cheering] 426 00:15:56,998 --> 00:15:59,078 And so down at one of the parties, 427 00:15:59,167 --> 00:16:01,587 that’s when we introduced him to Crystal Harris. 428 00:16:01,669 --> 00:16:03,669 We have a roped-off party, 429 00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:05,706 and we’re just sitting there, like, at the table, 430 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,430 and there’s tons of girls. Like, I mean, a pool of girls. 431 00:16:09,510 --> 00:16:10,680 And they’re like, "Hef, Hef, Hef, 432 00:16:10,803 --> 00:16:12,263 can I get a picture with you?" 433 00:16:12,346 --> 00:16:16,096 Crystal was one of the ones who came in with a friend, 434 00:16:16,184 --> 00:16:20,444 and then she ended up staying in his room, sleeping there. 435 00:16:20,521 --> 00:16:21,731 That night? 436 00:16:21,856 --> 00:16:23,106 She actually slept that night and every other night. 437 00:16:23,191 --> 00:16:24,611 -Stayed over. -Stayed over. 438 00:16:24,692 --> 00:16:27,612 Uh, around midnight, at the parties, 439 00:16:27,695 --> 00:16:29,065 he’d say, "Oh, well, you know, I’m getting tired. 440 00:16:29,197 --> 00:16:32,117 Let’s go upstairs," and we kinda noticed the pattern. 441 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,450 After a while, it was like midnight. 442 00:16:33,534 --> 00:16:34,874 He really always wants to go upstairs. 443 00:16:34,994 --> 00:16:37,254 And a bunch of girls would just be begging 444 00:16:37,371 --> 00:16:40,081 to go upstairs with Hef-- begging. 445 00:16:40,208 --> 00:16:42,458 And he’s like, "Is it okay with you if they come up?" 446 00:16:42,543 --> 00:16:44,463 And we’re like, "We don’t mind." 447 00:16:44,545 --> 00:16:46,415 -Go ahead. -Do what he wants. 448 00:16:46,547 --> 00:16:48,467 Clearly, if he maybe is fulfilled with those girls, 449 00:16:48,549 --> 00:16:50,969 he won’t want us. -So we, uh-- 450 00:16:51,052 --> 00:16:52,972 We just did not want any part of that. 451 00:16:53,054 --> 00:16:59,234 But, um, the problem was is Hef doesn’t like to use protection. 452 00:16:59,352 --> 00:17:00,392 -So he wouldn’t use condoms? -No. 453 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:01,980 -No. -From the butlers, 454 00:17:02,063 --> 00:17:05,323 we’d just order like a bowl-- big bowl, 455 00:17:05,399 --> 00:17:08,489 and we’d put hot water in it. Then we’d put rags in it. 456 00:17:08,569 --> 00:17:12,989 So whoever was, you know, having intercourse with him, 457 00:17:13,074 --> 00:17:16,164 when they were finished, they can wipe him off, 458 00:17:16,244 --> 00:17:18,504 and then the other girl could... 459 00:17:18,579 --> 00:17:19,829 -Do it. -...do it. 460 00:17:19,914 --> 00:17:21,174 And so you had to take it upon yourself... 461 00:17:21,249 --> 00:17:22,329 Yeah. 462 00:17:22,416 --> 00:17:25,496 ...to try to have some semblance of... 463 00:17:25,586 --> 00:17:28,336 -Yeah. -To avoid infections. 464 00:17:28,422 --> 00:17:32,342 There was at one point an STD that went around. 465 00:17:32,426 --> 00:17:35,796 We caught chlamydia, and, um, 466 00:17:35,930 --> 00:17:38,020 I remember going down to Mary O’Connor’s office-- 467 00:17:38,099 --> 00:17:42,349 his assistant/ I’d say house mom for us, 468 00:17:42,436 --> 00:17:43,846 and, uh, she’s like, 469 00:17:43,938 --> 00:17:45,858 "Well, that’s what happens when you’re sexually active." 470 00:17:45,940 --> 00:17:48,030 We freaked out. 471 00:17:48,109 --> 00:17:49,859 When she said STDs were normal when you’re sexually active, 472 00:17:49,944 --> 00:17:52,954 we’re like, "Everyone’s out of their mind here." 473 00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:55,492 Well, this whole thing is-- is terrifying, I’m sure, for... 474 00:17:55,616 --> 00:17:58,286 -Yeah. -...for 19-year-old women. 475 00:17:58,411 --> 00:18:02,871 Are you still intimate with him during this stage? 476 00:18:02,957 --> 00:18:04,367 After we caught the STD, 477 00:18:04,458 --> 00:18:07,378 we said we would never have sex with him again. 478 00:18:07,461 --> 00:18:09,211 -That was it? -BOTH: That was it. 479 00:18:09,297 --> 00:18:12,217 And we got different treatment because of that. 480 00:18:12,300 --> 00:18:15,590 ♪ 481 00:18:21,851 --> 00:18:22,981 From what I understand, there were rules 482 00:18:23,102 --> 00:18:23,982 that you had to live by... -Mm-hmm. 483 00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:25,903 ...when you were, uh, on the show 484 00:18:25,980 --> 00:18:28,070 and you lived at the Mansion. -Mm-hmm. 485 00:18:28,149 --> 00:18:29,899 What were some of the rules? 486 00:18:29,984 --> 00:18:32,864 The rules were we had a 9:00 curfew. 487 00:18:32,987 --> 00:18:36,907 We weren’t allowed to be seen out with other men, 488 00:18:36,991 --> 00:18:38,741 couldn’t date other men. 489 00:18:38,826 --> 00:18:42,076 He told us if we loved him 490 00:18:42,163 --> 00:18:44,413 and we wanted to be his girlfriends, 491 00:18:44,498 --> 00:18:47,418 we had to have sexual encounters with him. 492 00:18:47,501 --> 00:18:50,421 So he turned it into proof of love. 493 00:18:50,504 --> 00:18:52,594 -Yeah. -Proof of love, exactly. 494 00:18:52,673 --> 00:18:54,933 ♪ 495 00:18:55,009 --> 00:18:56,339 I feel like on "Girls Next Door," 496 00:18:56,469 --> 00:18:58,549 Hef was portrayed as like a kindly grandpa, 497 00:18:58,679 --> 00:19:00,099 but that’s not how he is. 498 00:19:00,181 --> 00:19:05,271 It would make me so angry how manipulative he was. 499 00:19:05,353 --> 00:19:07,943 Are there rules? Like, can you have boyfriends at all? 500 00:19:08,022 --> 00:19:09,772 -No. -No. 501 00:19:09,857 --> 00:19:10,937 -You’re not allowed to. -Hef is our boyfriend. 502 00:19:11,025 --> 00:19:12,365 -So... -How do you know when you’re 503 00:19:12,485 --> 00:19:14,035 called to the master bedroom? Do you have nights? 504 00:19:14,153 --> 00:19:15,243 -Yeah. -Yeah. 505 00:19:15,363 --> 00:19:16,953 Hef controlled every aspect of our life. 506 00:19:17,031 --> 00:19:19,701 You were encouraged to not have friends over. 507 00:19:19,825 --> 00:19:20,945 You weren’t really allowed to leave 508 00:19:21,035 --> 00:19:23,795 unless it was like a family holiday. 509 00:19:23,871 --> 00:19:26,621 There was a 9 p.m. curfew, uh, as a girlfriend, 510 00:19:26,707 --> 00:19:31,127 so you had to be on the property by 9 p.m. 511 00:19:31,212 --> 00:19:33,632 When it came to us, it was like, no. 512 00:19:33,714 --> 00:19:37,384 He tightened the belt even more. He didn’t want us to leave. 513 00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:40,760 He hung, uh, certain things over our head. 514 00:19:40,888 --> 00:19:43,638 We got punished, so, like, 515 00:19:43,724 --> 00:19:46,484 we weren’t allowed to do anything without security. 516 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,270 He said, "The twins can’t go visit their family 517 00:19:48,396 --> 00:19:50,056 unless security’s there." 518 00:19:50,189 --> 00:19:52,979 He had even had security follow you 519 00:19:53,067 --> 00:19:55,067 if you went to the mall or... -BOTH: Oh, yeah. 520 00:19:55,194 --> 00:19:56,654 Mm-hmm. We’d be downstairs, and he’d have 521 00:19:56,737 --> 00:19:58,487 three security guards watching me 522 00:19:58,572 --> 00:19:59,992 and watching Karissa. 523 00:20:00,074 --> 00:20:01,454 And they would always in the morning 524 00:20:01,575 --> 00:20:03,155 come up with their report 525 00:20:03,244 --> 00:20:05,084 of every single thing we did that night 526 00:20:05,204 --> 00:20:07,004 the next morning for him. 527 00:20:07,081 --> 00:20:10,581 Wait, what? They would write reports on everything you did? 528 00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:12,340 -Everything. -Everything we did. 529 00:20:12,420 --> 00:20:14,170 -Who we would hang out with. -Who we were hanging out with, 530 00:20:14,255 --> 00:20:18,345 what we were drinking, what we ate. Everything. 531 00:20:18,426 --> 00:20:19,676 Every time we left the property, 532 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,180 when did we leave, what time did we get back? 533 00:20:22,263 --> 00:20:23,853 And then when we did start realizing 534 00:20:23,931 --> 00:20:25,351 we have to hang out with Playmates, 535 00:20:25,433 --> 00:20:27,353 what Playmates were we hanging out with? What did they eat? 536 00:20:27,435 --> 00:20:29,525 What’s with the "What did they eat?" 537 00:20:29,603 --> 00:20:31,523 -He likes his girls thin. -To be thin. 538 00:20:31,605 --> 00:20:32,685 -Very thin. -Very thin. 539 00:20:32,773 --> 00:20:34,863 So Hef has everybody on a certain diet. 540 00:20:34,942 --> 00:20:36,572 This was such controlling... 541 00:20:36,652 --> 00:20:38,362 -Mm-hmm. -...behavior. 542 00:20:38,446 --> 00:20:40,856 ♪ 543 00:20:40,948 --> 00:20:43,028 [indistinct conversations] 544 00:20:43,117 --> 00:20:45,537 We’d normally have our parties every weekend. 545 00:20:45,619 --> 00:20:47,369 He’d would go upstairs with Crystal and say, 546 00:20:47,455 --> 00:20:49,375 "All right, have a good night. Security’s watching you," 547 00:20:49,457 --> 00:20:52,207 and we got to stay down. 548 00:20:52,293 --> 00:20:54,543 We weren’t allowed to be with any friends 549 00:20:54,628 --> 00:20:58,218 that were not Playboy circle. 550 00:20:58,299 --> 00:21:00,219 We kind of got a lot of press 551 00:21:00,301 --> 00:21:01,721 from hanging out with all the people 552 00:21:01,802 --> 00:21:03,392 going onstage and dancing. 553 00:21:03,471 --> 00:21:05,221 We’re very outgoing, like running the party. 554 00:21:05,306 --> 00:21:07,386 We start being able to meet people. 555 00:21:07,475 --> 00:21:08,735 Yeah. 556 00:21:08,809 --> 00:21:09,889 Like all these different celebrities 557 00:21:09,977 --> 00:21:11,057 that you’re meeting and networking, 558 00:21:11,145 --> 00:21:13,565 and like it’s our backyard. It is. 559 00:21:13,647 --> 00:21:15,687 And he found out we were hanging out with some Asian girl. 560 00:21:15,816 --> 00:21:17,066 He goes, "You’re hanging out with some Asian girl. 561 00:21:17,151 --> 00:21:18,491 Is she a Playmate?" 562 00:21:18,611 --> 00:21:20,741 And I’m like, "Is there a problem that she’s Asian?" 563 00:21:20,821 --> 00:21:22,071 And he’s like, "A Playboy Playmate, I told you, 564 00:21:22,156 --> 00:21:25,026 is a type of girl," and he goes, 565 00:21:25,159 --> 00:21:26,989 "You were hanging out with Black guys at the bar!" 566 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,079 Wait a minute. I thought he had this image of being progressive. 567 00:21:31,165 --> 00:21:32,085 -Mm-hmm. -Um... 568 00:21:32,166 --> 00:21:33,076 That’s for his image. 569 00:21:33,167 --> 00:21:35,457 Yes, he’s genius about his image. 570 00:21:35,544 --> 00:21:39,424 Every woman he dated was a white girl. 571 00:21:39,507 --> 00:21:44,757 Hef would say, "All right, the twins are wild. 572 00:21:44,845 --> 00:21:47,095 When I’m going upstairs, lock ’em up. 573 00:21:47,181 --> 00:21:49,601 I want them on HMH arrest upstairs." 574 00:21:49,683 --> 00:21:50,563 HMH arrest? 575 00:21:50,684 --> 00:21:53,104 Hugh Marston Hefner. HMH arrest. 576 00:21:53,187 --> 00:21:55,727 -Yeah. -He locked us in our bedroom. 577 00:21:55,856 --> 00:22:01,736 There would be a security guard sitting outside of our door. 578 00:22:01,862 --> 00:22:03,612 You are locked in your rooms, essentially. 579 00:22:03,697 --> 00:22:04,607 Mm-hmm. 580 00:22:04,698 --> 00:22:09,288 [indistinct conversations, squealing] 581 00:22:09,370 --> 00:22:11,580 So when he’d play Backgammon every Sunday--Sunday Funday-- 582 00:22:11,705 --> 00:22:12,905 we had to lay next to him. 583 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,460 The girls would come and ask for photos all the time, 584 00:22:15,543 --> 00:22:17,133 that were invited up for those days, 585 00:22:17,211 --> 00:22:19,001 and as he’s going to take the photos, 586 00:22:19,088 --> 00:22:21,468 he’s, like, grabbing under, grabbing their vagina, 587 00:22:21,549 --> 00:22:23,049 or, like, grabbed their boob, 588 00:22:23,175 --> 00:22:24,625 or they’d, "Look!" And they’d show their boobs to him, 589 00:22:24,718 --> 00:22:26,138 and he’d grab ’em. 590 00:22:26,220 --> 00:22:29,770 And the way he kisses, it’s like, um, his mouth kisses. 591 00:22:29,890 --> 00:22:33,640 He kissed every girl like an open-mouth kiss. 592 00:22:33,727 --> 00:22:36,477 You guys, I went to the Mansion when I was 20 and 21. 593 00:22:36,564 --> 00:22:38,654 And I first met him when I was 20. 594 00:22:38,732 --> 00:22:41,822 He came in for a, like, an open-mouth kiss. 595 00:22:41,902 --> 00:22:44,152 And I went like this, and it was like a dog slobber on me. 596 00:22:44,238 --> 00:22:45,988 -Mm-hmm. -But I could tell 597 00:22:46,073 --> 00:22:47,823 he did not like that I turned my head. 598 00:22:47,908 --> 00:22:49,328 -Turned. -Mm-hmm. 599 00:22:49,410 --> 00:22:50,910 I remembered how repulsive 600 00:22:51,036 --> 00:22:52,826 it was to be on the receiving end of that. 601 00:22:52,913 --> 00:22:54,123 -Mm-hmm. -I can’t believe that you had 602 00:22:54,248 --> 00:22:57,418 to put up with that as long as you did. 603 00:22:57,543 --> 00:22:59,383 [indistinct conversations] 604 00:22:59,461 --> 00:23:02,011 He has so much power. It’s like you’re in a cult. 605 00:23:02,089 --> 00:23:06,179 The isolation that I had from the outside world--it was... 606 00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:08,350 Not talking to our family, too. 607 00:23:08,429 --> 00:23:10,179 Not being able to talk to my family. 608 00:23:10,264 --> 00:23:12,854 I wanted to go to church. I couldn’t go to church. 609 00:23:12,933 --> 00:23:14,983 I was a shell of a person, you know? 610 00:23:15,102 --> 00:23:16,352 When we first got to the Playboy mansion, 611 00:23:16,437 --> 00:23:18,857 we were really, um, confident. 612 00:23:18,939 --> 00:23:21,189 Big personalities. 613 00:23:21,275 --> 00:23:22,575 You know, I felt like there always was this bright light 614 00:23:22,651 --> 00:23:24,151 inside of us. 615 00:23:24,278 --> 00:23:27,528 Like, Hef would say we used to bounce in and out of a room. 616 00:23:27,615 --> 00:23:29,075 Very entertaining to all of his friends and guests, 617 00:23:29,158 --> 00:23:31,368 and people used to say, "Gosh, well, when you guys got here, 618 00:23:31,452 --> 00:23:33,702 it was a fresh breath of air." 619 00:23:33,787 --> 00:23:36,707 So from the time that you experienced 620 00:23:36,790 --> 00:23:39,380 that first night in his bedroom at 19... 621 00:23:39,460 --> 00:23:41,000 -Mm-hmm. -...until the light went out 622 00:23:41,128 --> 00:23:43,458 was less than a year. -Less than a year. 623 00:23:43,589 --> 00:23:46,219 And you had completely changed personality. 624 00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:50,720 Yeah. I’m trying not to get emotional thinking about it. 625 00:23:50,804 --> 00:23:53,724 You lose yourself being there. 626 00:23:53,807 --> 00:23:56,847 All that innocence about us and all that, just being-- 627 00:23:56,977 --> 00:23:59,347 losing that and becoming a shell of a person, 628 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,570 it--it’s hard. 629 00:24:01,649 --> 00:24:05,069 It’s like being in prison and like someone breaking you 630 00:24:05,152 --> 00:24:08,282 in solitary confinement, like, you’re just broken. 631 00:24:08,364 --> 00:24:12,244 ♪ 632 00:24:12,326 --> 00:24:14,406 So you came to the Mansion thinking, 633 00:24:14,495 --> 00:24:18,255 "We’re gonna be centerfolds. I’m gonna be on a TV show. 634 00:24:18,332 --> 00:24:20,752 We’re going to live in the Mansion," 635 00:24:20,834 --> 00:24:24,844 but the reality was different than the fantasy. 636 00:24:24,964 --> 00:24:30,094 You had rules. You were watched constantly. 637 00:24:30,177 --> 00:24:31,757 And yet that wasn’t the worst thing 638 00:24:31,845 --> 00:24:34,965 that happened to you, was it? 639 00:24:42,523 --> 00:24:45,693 We did stop having sex with him when the STD hit. 640 00:24:45,818 --> 00:24:48,528 So for the first time, we put our foot down, 641 00:24:48,654 --> 00:24:51,744 and Hef was pressuring us to hook up with him. 642 00:24:51,865 --> 00:24:54,025 So then Mary O’Connor suggested, "Well, Hef, 643 00:24:54,118 --> 00:24:56,578 why don’t you stay with the three girls, then?" 644 00:24:56,704 --> 00:24:58,294 And he’s never done that. 645 00:24:58,372 --> 00:25:00,212 He’s used to seven girls, nine girls, 646 00:25:00,290 --> 00:25:02,210 but he actually agreed to that. 647 00:25:02,292 --> 00:25:04,542 So then we’re like, "Oh, great, now he agreed to it. 648 00:25:04,628 --> 00:25:07,048 Now we’re gonna have to, like, end up having 649 00:25:07,131 --> 00:25:08,631 to hook up with him." 650 00:25:08,716 --> 00:25:10,046 This was like a business arrangement. 651 00:25:10,175 --> 00:25:11,375 -Mm-hmm. -It was--It’s like 652 00:25:11,468 --> 00:25:12,968 a business arrangement, yeah. 653 00:25:13,053 --> 00:25:14,393 Did you feel like you would lose the opportunity 654 00:25:14,471 --> 00:25:17,561 to be on the show if you would have said no? 655 00:25:17,641 --> 00:25:19,641 It wasn’t just about the show. 656 00:25:19,727 --> 00:25:21,057 We thought he would just send us back. 657 00:25:21,186 --> 00:25:23,896 Like, he would take everything away that we had got. 658 00:25:24,023 --> 00:25:25,733 Taking away the allowance, you know, 659 00:25:25,816 --> 00:25:28,316 and not being able to take care of our grandmother. 660 00:25:28,402 --> 00:25:31,242 We did not want him to take that away. 661 00:25:31,321 --> 00:25:34,661 I was young and naive. You don’t know you’re allowed to say no. 662 00:25:34,742 --> 00:25:38,622 And so you were kind of pulled back into this dark place... 663 00:25:38,746 --> 00:25:39,826 -Yeah. -...of--of having 664 00:25:39,913 --> 00:25:43,083 to go upstairs, go into his bedroom, 665 00:25:43,167 --> 00:25:44,577 and have sexual intercourse with him. 666 00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:46,590 -Yeah. -We ended up doing it, like, 667 00:25:46,670 --> 00:25:49,090 two more times and then just said we couldn’t do it anymore. 668 00:25:49,173 --> 00:25:52,433 And that’s how later on, I ended up getting pregnant. 669 00:25:52,509 --> 00:25:54,799 ♪ 670 00:25:54,928 --> 00:25:57,098 One of those two times, you got pregnant. 671 00:25:57,222 --> 00:25:58,432 Mm-hmm. 672 00:25:58,515 --> 00:26:01,935 You know, he’s having sex with you unprotected. 673 00:26:02,061 --> 00:26:04,021 Um, you know, you were old enough 674 00:26:04,104 --> 00:26:05,694 to know how people get pregnant. 675 00:26:05,773 --> 00:26:07,113 I didn’t think that I would 676 00:26:07,191 --> 00:26:09,111 because I knew Holly was trying to get pregnant, 677 00:26:09,234 --> 00:26:12,364 and I knew that Holly tried so hard, 678 00:26:12,446 --> 00:26:14,656 so I was like, maybe we’re in the clear. 679 00:26:14,782 --> 00:26:16,282 -Didn’t think it was possible. -I didn’t think it was possible. 680 00:26:16,366 --> 00:26:17,776 And again, how old is he? 681 00:26:17,868 --> 00:26:19,038 -84. -84. 682 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:20,949 Like, you don’t really think that would happen. 683 00:26:21,038 --> 00:26:22,038 But we were--we were about the youngest girlfriends 684 00:26:22,122 --> 00:26:24,292 he had had. 685 00:26:24,374 --> 00:26:26,634 It was the end of 19. I was gonna turn 20. 686 00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:29,052 I had no idea until the blood test 687 00:26:29,129 --> 00:26:32,169 for my surgery, so a blood test is what told me. 688 00:26:32,299 --> 00:26:36,299 We had plans to get our noses done and our boobs done. 689 00:26:36,386 --> 00:26:39,636 So I got a call saying, like, "Hey, you’re pregnant, 690 00:26:39,765 --> 00:26:42,145 and you have the surgery coming up," and that’s-- 691 00:26:42,226 --> 00:26:45,476 I freaked. Like, I’m, like, "Who else knows about this?" 692 00:26:45,604 --> 00:26:46,524 And they’re like, "Well, we just called you," 693 00:26:46,647 --> 00:26:49,147 and I was like, "Don’t call Mary. 694 00:26:49,274 --> 00:26:51,154 Don’t call Hef. Don’t call anyone. 695 00:26:51,235 --> 00:26:52,575 I don’t want anyone knowing." 696 00:26:52,653 --> 00:26:54,153 It’s hard to hide things at the Mansion. 697 00:26:54,238 --> 00:26:56,488 Wait. The first reaction that you had... 698 00:26:56,573 --> 00:26:58,163 -Was scared. -...was "Who knows?" 699 00:26:58,242 --> 00:27:00,332 Who knows? Who in the office knows? 700 00:27:00,452 --> 00:27:02,832 Why didn’t you feel like you could go to Hugh Hefner 701 00:27:02,913 --> 00:27:04,833 and say, "Hef, I’m pregnant"? 702 00:27:04,957 --> 00:27:08,167 I didn’t want him to know that I was pregnant. 703 00:27:08,252 --> 00:27:09,842 I didn’t want him to want me to have it. 704 00:27:09,962 --> 00:27:14,672 I didn’t wanna be stuck even more inside that bubble. 705 00:27:14,758 --> 00:27:17,178 I think it’s a way for him to control me even more... 706 00:27:17,261 --> 00:27:19,221 -I see. -...having me on a leash. 707 00:27:19,346 --> 00:27:20,886 Yeah. 708 00:27:21,014 --> 00:27:22,524 I felt disgusted with my body. I didn’t-- 709 00:27:22,641 --> 00:27:26,391 I felt like there was something, like, like, an alien inside me. 710 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,020 I was just grossed out. 711 00:27:28,147 --> 00:27:31,897 [voice breaking] I just wanted to get it over and done with, 712 00:27:32,025 --> 00:27:33,025 and... [sighs] 713 00:27:33,152 --> 00:27:34,862 I called around for a few clinics. 714 00:27:34,945 --> 00:27:36,035 And, um, ’cause we didn’t wanna-- 715 00:27:36,113 --> 00:27:38,283 ’Cause security couldn’t take us there 716 00:27:38,365 --> 00:27:39,865 ’cause otherwise Hef would’ve found out. 717 00:27:39,992 --> 00:27:42,202 Um, ’cause if we were together, I knew we would get a... 718 00:27:42,327 --> 00:27:44,367 a lot more attention or a chance of paparazzi 719 00:27:44,454 --> 00:27:46,544 walking in an abortion clinic. 720 00:27:46,623 --> 00:27:49,883 You two do everything together, 721 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,880 but at this crucial moment in your life, 722 00:27:52,963 --> 00:27:57,763 you have to walk in alone ’cause you’re worried about paparazzi. 723 00:27:57,885 --> 00:28:01,395 That is, to me, so gut-wrenching and sad. 724 00:28:01,471 --> 00:28:02,761 -Yeah. -You had to be alone. 725 00:28:02,890 --> 00:28:05,140 -[exhales deeply] -I’m so sorry. 726 00:28:05,225 --> 00:28:08,135 I can’t imagine what the two of you went through. 727 00:28:08,228 --> 00:28:09,478 That’s a double life. 728 00:28:09,563 --> 00:28:11,403 That’s why we love each other so much, too. 729 00:28:11,523 --> 00:28:14,073 We really are strong for each other, you know? 730 00:28:14,151 --> 00:28:15,651 Yeah, you are. 731 00:28:15,736 --> 00:28:19,406 So, uh, I called my good friend Juicy J from-- 732 00:28:19,531 --> 00:28:20,781 He’s a rapper from Three 6 Mafia, 733 00:28:20,908 --> 00:28:23,078 but we’re really close. 734 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,250 So I made an appointment, and we went to Sherman Oaks mall, 735 00:28:27,331 --> 00:28:29,121 got dropped off and said we were going shopping, 736 00:28:29,249 --> 00:28:32,089 and Juicy J picked us up at valet right away, 737 00:28:32,169 --> 00:28:35,089 drove us in his car, and we dropped Karissa off by herself. 738 00:28:35,172 --> 00:28:38,592 I did the procedure, came out, got in his car, 739 00:28:38,675 --> 00:28:40,755 and they dropped us back off at the mall, 740 00:28:40,886 --> 00:28:42,756 and she ran up and purchased, like, two thongs 741 00:28:42,846 --> 00:28:45,466 from Victoria’s Secret to act like we went shopping. 742 00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:47,269 Then we went back to the Mansion, 743 00:28:47,351 --> 00:28:49,101 and then all of a sudden, Hef’s like, 744 00:28:49,186 --> 00:28:50,806 "Oh, we have to film 745 00:28:50,938 --> 00:28:52,938 for ’The Girls Next Door’ promo opening." 746 00:28:53,065 --> 00:28:55,285 I think it was like two days later, maybe. 747 00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:57,779 And they wanted us for that opening to be in bikinis 748 00:28:57,861 --> 00:28:59,611 and all this stuff, and I couldn’t go down there 749 00:28:59,738 --> 00:29:02,698 ’cause my stomach was swollen and I was bleeding a lot. 750 00:29:02,783 --> 00:29:05,623 I just, uh, laid in bed and tried to play like I was sick. 751 00:29:05,702 --> 00:29:09,002 And then Lauren, our main field producer, 752 00:29:09,122 --> 00:29:10,872 shuts the door and says, "What’s going on?" 753 00:29:10,958 --> 00:29:12,458 I had to tell someone. 754 00:29:12,542 --> 00:29:15,462 Kristina says, "Karissa just had an abortion." 755 00:29:15,587 --> 00:29:19,547 And Lauren, thank God, she didn’t say anything. 756 00:29:19,633 --> 00:29:21,803 But she did say, "Well, what do you want me to tell Hef?" 757 00:29:21,885 --> 00:29:23,795 So then Hef comes up, and I’m crying, 758 00:29:23,887 --> 00:29:25,467 and he’s like, "What’s wrong?" 759 00:29:25,555 --> 00:29:27,635 I said, "I’m sick. I just can’t film." 760 00:29:27,724 --> 00:29:29,894 He’s like, "Well, we could do it tomorrow." 761 00:29:29,977 --> 00:29:31,307 And I said, "No," ’cause I don’t know 762 00:29:31,395 --> 00:29:32,985 if I’m gonna be all right by tomorrow. 763 00:29:33,063 --> 00:29:34,153 So Hef’s like, "Whatever you wanna do," 764 00:29:34,273 --> 00:29:36,983 and, like, leaves, all mad, 765 00:29:37,109 --> 00:29:39,069 and then that’s the first time we’ve said no. 766 00:29:39,152 --> 00:29:40,992 We never say no to filming. 767 00:29:41,113 --> 00:29:42,663 Lauren said, "All right, how about this, Karissa? 768 00:29:42,739 --> 00:29:45,489 You do your hair and makeup and go down, 769 00:29:45,617 --> 00:29:47,537 and we will cut--put your head on your sister’s body 770 00:29:47,661 --> 00:29:50,251 if she’s okay with it." 771 00:29:50,330 --> 00:29:54,750 So, yeah, um, and then this opening, 772 00:29:54,835 --> 00:29:59,265 my head--it’s Kristina’s body. My head’s put on her body. 773 00:29:59,339 --> 00:30:00,589 I was the body double for both of us. 774 00:30:00,674 --> 00:30:02,344 She was the body double for both of us 775 00:30:02,426 --> 00:30:03,926 this day of the shoot for the opening. 776 00:30:04,011 --> 00:30:07,721 [voice breaking] I went down and put on different bikinis. 777 00:30:07,848 --> 00:30:11,518 And...that’s the opening for "The Girls Next Door" 778 00:30:11,601 --> 00:30:13,441 and the bobblehead thing. 779 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,190 I mean, in a way, you were almost more concerned 780 00:30:16,273 --> 00:30:19,863 about this reality show opening 781 00:30:19,985 --> 00:30:22,405 than you were about your own body and health. 782 00:30:22,529 --> 00:30:26,529 [crying] So...it’s hard watching the opening for it. 783 00:30:26,616 --> 00:30:27,696 [sniffles] 784 00:30:27,826 --> 00:30:31,616 The fact that you were pregnant by somebody 785 00:30:31,705 --> 00:30:33,375 that you didn’t wanna have sex with... 786 00:30:33,498 --> 00:30:37,538 Every time I’ve done it with him it’s assault. 787 00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:42,129 I’m ni--I’m a kid. I’m 19 years old. 788 00:30:42,215 --> 00:30:44,545 I’m not even old enough to drink yet. 789 00:30:44,676 --> 00:30:49,806 And he is just a creepy old man with power. 790 00:30:49,890 --> 00:30:53,230 Women don’t understand that they can say no. [sniffles] 791 00:30:53,310 --> 00:30:58,230 I’m sorry. It’s so hard to talk about, you know? 792 00:30:58,315 --> 00:31:01,325 Do you look back and think to yourself 793 00:31:01,401 --> 00:31:03,281 that you made the right decision? 794 00:31:03,403 --> 00:31:05,413 100% I did, yeah. 795 00:31:05,489 --> 00:31:07,119 Everyone, to each their own... 796 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,830 but for me it’s like rape. 797 00:31:10,911 --> 00:31:12,411 He would use control mechanisms 798 00:31:12,496 --> 00:31:13,826 completely throughout everything, 799 00:31:13,914 --> 00:31:16,754 so I’m happy that I had the abortion. 800 00:31:16,833 --> 00:31:18,463 Because you felt like he raped you. 801 00:31:18,585 --> 00:31:19,585 Yeah. 802 00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:21,839 ♪ 803 00:31:26,593 --> 00:31:27,973 [paparazzi shouting at once] 804 00:31:28,095 --> 00:31:30,435 You know, while we were there, we also had a lot of opportunity 805 00:31:30,555 --> 00:31:32,425 besides being "Playboy" Playmates. 806 00:31:32,516 --> 00:31:34,266 Like, movies, commercials. 807 00:31:34,393 --> 00:31:36,643 We did the "Guitar Hero" commercial with Brett Ratner. 808 00:31:36,770 --> 00:31:37,940 We’ve done L’Oréal France. 809 00:31:38,021 --> 00:31:41,861 We’ve done, like, just tons of stuff, 810 00:31:41,942 --> 00:31:44,442 and we did the "Somewhere" with Sofia Coppola. 811 00:31:44,528 --> 00:31:47,448 Can you tell me how you got that role in that film? 812 00:31:47,531 --> 00:31:50,621 Sofia Coppola contacted the Mansion. 813 00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:52,790 They asked us, "Hey, we have a part..." 814 00:31:52,869 --> 00:31:54,199 "Do you want to come audition?" 815 00:31:54,287 --> 00:31:55,287 "...we want you guys to come and audition for." 816 00:31:55,414 --> 00:31:56,374 -She said-- -And then you got it. 817 00:31:56,456 --> 00:31:58,036 BOTH: Yeah, we got it. 818 00:31:58,125 --> 00:32:00,255 And Hef was shocked. So they made a whole episode about it. 819 00:32:03,463 --> 00:32:05,723 Thanks for having us. 820 00:32:13,598 --> 00:32:14,968 Oh, yeah. 821 00:32:15,058 --> 00:32:17,348 -Oh. -"Fan of your father." 822 00:32:17,477 --> 00:32:20,857 She’s so uncomfortable. Like, he gave a backhanded compliment. 823 00:32:20,981 --> 00:32:23,151 It was almost like he was groveling to her. 824 00:32:23,233 --> 00:32:24,323 BOTH: Yeah. 825 00:32:24,443 --> 00:32:25,993 Clearly, he really loves celebrities. 826 00:32:26,069 --> 00:32:27,529 -It comes with movies. -Yeah, he loves movies. 827 00:32:27,654 --> 00:32:29,074 -It’s a big deal. -It’s movies. 828 00:32:29,156 --> 00:32:30,656 I’ll tell you, this was the thing. 829 00:32:30,740 --> 00:32:33,830 When our, uh, red carpet came for the premiere, 830 00:32:33,910 --> 00:32:35,660 for the movie, we didn’t want him to go, 831 00:32:35,745 --> 00:32:38,245 ’cause I knew it was gonna be more about him, 832 00:32:38,331 --> 00:32:40,001 and he was gonna bring other women 833 00:32:40,125 --> 00:32:43,175 and make it more about them, and to us, this was, like, 834 00:32:43,253 --> 00:32:45,673 our--we did this. We got this on our own. 835 00:32:45,755 --> 00:32:48,005 Can we have this to ourselves? 836 00:32:48,133 --> 00:32:49,223 And so we told him 837 00:32:49,342 --> 00:32:50,762 we didn’t want him to come to the premiere, 838 00:32:50,844 --> 00:32:53,764 and he said, "Well, I’ll send you with security in a limo, 839 00:32:53,847 --> 00:32:54,847 but you have to do movie night." 840 00:32:54,931 --> 00:32:56,851 "You have to stay for movie night..." 841 00:32:56,933 --> 00:32:58,273 -And dinner. -"...and dinner as normal." 842 00:32:58,351 --> 00:32:59,851 And this was what was embarrassing. 843 00:32:59,936 --> 00:33:03,186 By the time the movie ended, we jumped up, got in the limo, 844 00:33:03,273 --> 00:33:05,363 and by the time we got to the premiere, 845 00:33:05,442 --> 00:33:08,742 it was already halfway through the beginning of the movie. 846 00:33:08,862 --> 00:33:09,952 Sofia was waiting for us. 847 00:33:10,030 --> 00:33:11,700 He made you miss your premiere... 848 00:33:11,823 --> 00:33:12,783 -BOTH: Yeah. -...and the red carpet 849 00:33:12,866 --> 00:33:14,196 of your premiere. -BOTH: Yep. 850 00:33:14,326 --> 00:33:15,366 -So when-- -Was he jealous? 851 00:33:15,494 --> 00:33:16,874 -100% he was jealous. -It was like 852 00:33:16,953 --> 00:33:18,203 he’s now losing control of you, too, 853 00:33:18,330 --> 00:33:21,420 ’cause you’re out there starting to make your own career. 854 00:33:21,541 --> 00:33:22,711 Yep. 855 00:33:22,834 --> 00:33:23,714 And it’s almost like he couldn’t handle it. 856 00:33:23,793 --> 00:33:25,423 Yeah. 857 00:33:25,545 --> 00:33:27,755 He’s actually made a lot of money off of us 858 00:33:27,881 --> 00:33:30,381 from just us living there. 859 00:33:30,467 --> 00:33:33,217 He really resented the success of the other girls that left, 860 00:33:33,303 --> 00:33:36,063 and he didn’t want us to leave. 861 00:33:36,181 --> 00:33:39,481 Let’s talk about how you were able, 862 00:33:39,559 --> 00:33:43,399 and I’m gonna use this word, escape. 863 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,610 We actually were scared. 864 00:33:44,731 --> 00:33:46,481 We didn’t know how to break up with him, 865 00:33:46,566 --> 00:33:47,896 so we went to Mary O’Connor’s office 866 00:33:48,026 --> 00:33:50,236 and told her we didn’t wanna be there anymore 867 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,570 but didn’t know how to tell Hef that. 868 00:33:53,657 --> 00:33:56,277 It was like an hour goes by and then she calls us, 869 00:33:56,409 --> 00:33:57,739 and says, "Hey, uh, come-- you girls come down here. 870 00:33:57,827 --> 00:33:59,907 I’ve got Hef in here," and we were scared." 871 00:34:00,038 --> 00:34:02,078 -Mm-hmm. -He was pissed. 872 00:34:02,165 --> 00:34:05,125 He said, "Okay, so you guys wanna break up with me?" 873 00:34:05,252 --> 00:34:07,802 And we’re like, "Yeah." 874 00:34:07,921 --> 00:34:11,261 He said, "Well, how about you go and live at the Bunny House?" 875 00:34:11,383 --> 00:34:13,593 Hef had a lot of the girls staying at the Bunny House, 876 00:34:13,718 --> 00:34:16,098 which was across the street from the Mansion, 877 00:34:16,221 --> 00:34:20,431 and he said, "I’ll give you guys $500 a week rather than $1,000. 878 00:34:20,517 --> 00:34:21,597 -"You have to attend..." -Attend. 879 00:34:21,685 --> 00:34:23,315 Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. 880 00:34:23,436 --> 00:34:27,266 We agreed, but the first night, we went out to a, um, nightclub. 881 00:34:27,399 --> 00:34:29,109 He saw that we were getting a lot of press, 882 00:34:29,192 --> 00:34:31,442 and he did not like it, and-- 883 00:34:31,570 --> 00:34:33,780 So he said, "You stay here at the Mansion, 884 00:34:33,863 --> 00:34:35,283 and you can’t be seen out, 885 00:34:35,407 --> 00:34:37,777 or you guys have to leave the Playmate house," 886 00:34:37,867 --> 00:34:41,697 and we’re like, you know what? That’s great for us, 887 00:34:41,788 --> 00:34:44,208 ’cause we just got a taste of freedom. 888 00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:49,750 ♪ 889 00:34:59,097 --> 00:35:01,347 It felt so weird, uh, going in a grocery store 890 00:35:01,474 --> 00:35:03,734 and just buying groceries. 891 00:35:03,810 --> 00:35:05,060 We just wanted to be adults, 892 00:35:05,145 --> 00:35:07,155 figure out who we are as adults and as women, 893 00:35:07,272 --> 00:35:09,192 ’cause we weren’t even women when we moved in. 894 00:35:09,316 --> 00:35:11,476 We decided to open our own full-service beauty salon 895 00:35:11,568 --> 00:35:15,318 in Beverly Hills, and we did do that for three years 896 00:35:15,447 --> 00:35:17,567 and then sold it. 897 00:35:17,657 --> 00:35:20,487 After you left the Mansion, what was your emotional state? 898 00:35:20,619 --> 00:35:23,909 We were diagnosed with PTSD, 899 00:35:23,997 --> 00:35:26,497 and the psychiatrist said that we would need to go through 900 00:35:26,583 --> 00:35:28,003 a lot of therapy to unravel our brain. 901 00:35:28,084 --> 00:35:30,174 -Unwind our brain. -Unwind our brain. 902 00:35:30,253 --> 00:35:33,673 Can you describe why and how that has affected your life? 903 00:35:33,757 --> 00:35:36,427 -We’re still dealing with it. -We’re still dealing with it. 904 00:35:36,509 --> 00:35:41,599 Yeah. I don’t think that that part is ever gonna go away-- 905 00:35:41,681 --> 00:35:44,681 that part of us that was taken will ever go away. 906 00:35:44,768 --> 00:35:47,518 And our mother passed away in 2014. 907 00:35:47,604 --> 00:35:49,194 And so when she was gone, 908 00:35:49,272 --> 00:35:51,442 it was like it just took everything away, 909 00:35:51,524 --> 00:35:53,194 ’cause she was all we ever had. 910 00:35:53,276 --> 00:35:55,436 So you didn’t have a biological family 911 00:35:55,528 --> 00:35:57,198 at that point once your grandmother passed. 912 00:35:57,322 --> 00:35:58,872 You didn’t have your Playboy family anymore 913 00:35:58,948 --> 00:36:01,868 because you left. -Mm-hmm. 914 00:36:01,951 --> 00:36:05,371 And so what did you wanna do with the rest of your lives? 915 00:36:05,497 --> 00:36:07,077 I think we’re still figuring everything out. 916 00:36:07,207 --> 00:36:08,617 Yeah. 917 00:36:08,708 --> 00:36:09,538 We still are gonna work in therapy. 918 00:36:09,668 --> 00:36:11,208 Mm-hmm. 919 00:36:11,294 --> 00:36:14,054 We do wanna have a family of our own, 920 00:36:14,130 --> 00:36:16,800 but we need to get to the right space first. 921 00:36:16,883 --> 00:36:19,723 Have you been able to date since Hugh Hefner? 922 00:36:23,306 --> 00:36:24,596 Not serious dating. 923 00:36:24,724 --> 00:36:28,984 We can’t emotionally...connect like that. 924 00:36:29,062 --> 00:36:31,402 Did you ever go back and see Hef again? 925 00:36:31,523 --> 00:36:33,273 When we heard he was, like, not doing good, 926 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,940 went up for a movie night, like, at the end. 927 00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:37,489 We saw him in a walker. 928 00:36:37,570 --> 00:36:39,570 At this point, he’s peeing in a bucket 929 00:36:39,656 --> 00:36:41,276 next to the bed. -Nightstand. 930 00:36:41,408 --> 00:36:45,288 He couldn’t walk. Yeah, his health was bad. 931 00:36:45,412 --> 00:36:46,912 Did you pity him? 932 00:36:46,996 --> 00:36:49,826 I don’t understand completely, 933 00:36:49,916 --> 00:36:53,746 but a part of me does feel bad. 934 00:36:53,837 --> 00:36:57,257 So it’s like we wouldn’t wish the worst on anyone. 935 00:36:57,340 --> 00:36:59,760 ♪ 936 00:36:59,884 --> 00:37:01,934 -People are gonna see this. -Mm-hmm. 937 00:37:02,011 --> 00:37:05,181 And they’re gonna say, "The twins became famous. 938 00:37:05,265 --> 00:37:08,185 The twins were centerfolds. 939 00:37:08,268 --> 00:37:09,938 The twins got to live in the Mansion. 940 00:37:10,061 --> 00:37:11,601 They got to live this life. 941 00:37:11,688 --> 00:37:13,478 Now they’re coming forward after the dude’s dead." 942 00:37:13,606 --> 00:37:14,766 BOTH: Mm-hmm. 943 00:37:14,858 --> 00:37:16,778 Is that fair? 944 00:37:16,901 --> 00:37:20,111 But when we were staying there, he had a powerhouse behind him. 945 00:37:20,238 --> 00:37:22,278 He had a whole team-- He had a whole team behind him. 946 00:37:22,365 --> 00:37:24,115 He can hide anything. You can’t even touch him. 947 00:37:24,242 --> 00:37:26,622 -He felt untouchable. -So he felt untouchable. 948 00:37:26,703 --> 00:37:28,623 He’s squeaky clean. Untouchable. 949 00:37:28,705 --> 00:37:32,045 I didn’t know how much power we had 950 00:37:32,125 --> 00:37:33,795 as young adults at 19. 951 00:37:33,877 --> 00:37:40,297 Like, we had a lot more power, but we didn’t know. 952 00:37:40,425 --> 00:37:43,305 Coming up, Dr. Kate Balestrieri 953 00:37:43,428 --> 00:37:47,808 will talk to us about backlash and moving forward. 954 00:37:53,521 --> 00:37:55,441 ♪ 955 00:37:55,523 --> 00:37:59,693 Talking about Hugh Hefner, he has a legacy, 956 00:37:59,819 --> 00:38:01,609 and people still exist that propped him up... 957 00:38:01,696 --> 00:38:03,446 -Mm-hmm. -...all those years. 958 00:38:03,531 --> 00:38:04,871 What would you like those people to know... 959 00:38:04,991 --> 00:38:05,831 -The truth. -...about how you feel 960 00:38:05,950 --> 00:38:07,620 about the legacy? 961 00:38:07,702 --> 00:38:09,952 He had a lot of power. It’s a new... 962 00:38:10,038 --> 00:38:12,368 We’re in a new era. We’re in a new generation right now. 963 00:38:12,499 --> 00:38:13,329 We’re in a new world. 964 00:38:13,458 --> 00:38:15,498 When the Me Too movement came out, 965 00:38:15,585 --> 00:38:18,345 it, like, kind of opened the floodgates for... 966 00:38:18,463 --> 00:38:19,633 -For a lot of women. -...for us to be able to talk 967 00:38:19,714 --> 00:38:21,844 and know that we’re not alone in the situations 968 00:38:21,966 --> 00:38:23,006 we were all going through. 969 00:38:23,134 --> 00:38:25,974 -We have a voice. -Mm-hmm. 970 00:38:26,054 --> 00:38:28,064 ♪ 971 00:38:28,181 --> 00:38:31,681 We so appreciate you opening up and telling us your story. 972 00:38:31,810 --> 00:38:34,520 We know that it’s painful. We saw how painful it was. 973 00:38:34,604 --> 00:38:36,654 I felt how painful this was for you. 974 00:38:36,731 --> 00:38:42,071 The story has been so powerful and really troubling. 975 00:38:42,195 --> 00:38:44,665 We brought out Dr. Kate because we want her to be able 976 00:38:44,739 --> 00:38:47,989 to process some of the things that you are 977 00:38:48,076 --> 00:38:49,366 possibly experiencing right now as you’re telling your story 978 00:38:49,494 --> 00:38:52,834 for the very first time. Dr. Kate. 979 00:38:52,914 --> 00:38:55,044 Well, hearing everything that you’ve been through, 980 00:38:55,124 --> 00:38:58,094 I really want to echo how brave and courageous it is 981 00:38:58,211 --> 00:39:00,501 for you to come forward and talk about everything 982 00:39:00,588 --> 00:39:01,838 that you have endured. 983 00:39:01,923 --> 00:39:04,383 This isn’t easy for survivors to do, 984 00:39:04,467 --> 00:39:06,337 and I hope that both of you 985 00:39:06,427 --> 00:39:08,717 hold a lot of compassion for yourselves 986 00:39:08,805 --> 00:39:12,275 as you start to unpack all of this. 987 00:39:12,392 --> 00:39:16,022 Do you feel better now than you did this morning? 988 00:39:16,104 --> 00:39:17,564 -100%. -Yeah. 989 00:39:17,647 --> 00:39:18,937 -I feel better... -Yeah. 990 00:39:19,065 --> 00:39:20,065 ...telling our story. 991 00:39:20,149 --> 00:39:22,359 -It’s a lot to process, too. -Yeah. 992 00:39:22,443 --> 00:39:24,113 Like, I’ll probably go to bed tonight thinking, 993 00:39:24,237 --> 00:39:26,357 oh, my gosh, and I’m gonna, like, you know, 994 00:39:26,447 --> 00:39:28,567 I’m just gonna probably rethink the whole day and everything, 995 00:39:28,658 --> 00:39:31,408 just to probably have anxiety, but...’cause it’s hard. 996 00:39:31,536 --> 00:39:33,536 -Of course it is. -It’s hard to talk about. 997 00:39:33,621 --> 00:39:35,921 Well, sometimes when people talk about the trauma 998 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,250 that they’ve gone through, 999 00:39:37,375 --> 00:39:40,125 they can experience an emotional hangover. 1000 00:39:40,253 --> 00:39:42,053 -An emotional hangover. -That’s amazing. 1001 00:39:42,130 --> 00:39:43,420 -It is, yeah. -I was just gonna say... 1002 00:39:43,506 --> 00:39:45,126 -Emotional hangover. -...emotional hangover. 1003 00:39:45,258 --> 00:39:46,968 -That’s what... -It’s to be expected. 1004 00:39:47,093 --> 00:39:49,603 And I might encourage you to think about 1005 00:39:49,721 --> 00:39:51,391 getting a lot of support in the next couple of days. 1006 00:39:51,472 --> 00:39:54,432 You know, can you call the people you love and trust 1007 00:39:54,517 --> 00:39:56,137 and say, "Hey, can you bring us some soup? 1008 00:39:56,269 --> 00:39:57,729 Can you bring us Thai food?" 1009 00:39:57,812 --> 00:40:01,322 How do you like to be nurtured, and can you ask for that? 1010 00:40:01,441 --> 00:40:02,981 -I’ll do that for you. -Thank you. 1011 00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:04,399 [laughter] 1012 00:40:04,485 --> 00:40:06,605 Also, I think it’s really important that if 1013 00:40:06,696 --> 00:40:09,236 there’s a part of you that wants to process 1014 00:40:09,324 --> 00:40:11,244 how this special is received, 1015 00:40:11,326 --> 00:40:13,786 maybe ask a friend to read social media for you 1016 00:40:13,912 --> 00:40:16,752 and give it to you through a filter 1017 00:40:16,831 --> 00:40:18,961 so that you’re not seeing those images 1018 00:40:19,042 --> 00:40:20,582 of what people have typed, 1019 00:40:20,668 --> 00:40:22,458 ’cause that can lead us down a rabbit hole 1020 00:40:22,545 --> 00:40:25,665 of being constantly in a state of injury, 1021 00:40:25,798 --> 00:40:28,298 and we see the effects of that on social media all the time 1022 00:40:28,384 --> 00:40:30,344 with people taking their own lives 1023 00:40:30,470 --> 00:40:34,270 and people have significant PTSD, anxiety, and depression. 1024 00:40:34,349 --> 00:40:36,479 The other problem with writing something snarky about somebody 1025 00:40:36,559 --> 00:40:38,639 that you see on TV 1026 00:40:38,728 --> 00:40:40,148 is that other people are reading that tweet 1027 00:40:40,229 --> 00:40:44,359 or that post as well, and that has a silencing effect 1028 00:40:44,484 --> 00:40:46,864 on other women that might be considering coming forward. 1029 00:40:46,986 --> 00:40:48,606 It absolutely does. 1030 00:40:48,696 --> 00:40:52,156 It also creates a secondary victimization for survivors. 1031 00:40:52,283 --> 00:40:53,663 So when survivors are not believed, 1032 00:40:53,743 --> 00:40:56,373 when survivors are ridiculed, when they’re harassed, 1033 00:40:56,496 --> 00:40:59,166 that compounds the trauma that they’ve experienced. 1034 00:40:59,290 --> 00:41:01,290 I mean, honestly, that’s why I’m impressed with you, 1035 00:41:01,376 --> 00:41:04,166 because you’ve decided to come forward and share 1036 00:41:04,253 --> 00:41:06,633 these really traumatic experiences, 1037 00:41:06,714 --> 00:41:08,224 and you are such heroes for doing that. 1038 00:41:08,341 --> 00:41:10,011 -Thank you. -Because you’ll never know 1039 00:41:10,134 --> 00:41:12,344 who you are impacting right this second. 1040 00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:13,970 What would you wanna say to the other women 1041 00:41:14,055 --> 00:41:15,975 that have endured what you have? 1042 00:41:16,057 --> 00:41:17,177 They’re not alone, yeah. 1043 00:41:17,266 --> 00:41:18,676 And it helps to be able to tell our story, 1044 00:41:18,768 --> 00:41:20,518 but it is a healing process. 1045 00:41:20,645 --> 00:41:24,065 I just appreciate the women that are coming forward. 1046 00:41:24,190 --> 00:41:25,650 I appreciate hearing it. 1047 00:41:25,733 --> 00:41:27,193 We didn’t just go through it ourselves. 1048 00:41:27,318 --> 00:41:28,318 It’s a dark sisterhood, 1049 00:41:28,403 --> 00:41:30,153 but it’s a lot of healing we gotta do, 1050 00:41:30,238 --> 00:41:32,658 so it’s just gonna take time. 1051 00:41:32,740 --> 00:41:34,200 I am so thankful 1052 00:41:34,283 --> 00:41:37,543 that you wanted to come here and share your experiences 1053 00:41:37,620 --> 00:41:39,910 because they matter. -Thank you. 1054 00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:41,209 -And the truth matters. -Thank you. 1055 00:41:41,290 --> 00:41:42,830 -And I believe you. -Thank you very much. 1056 00:41:42,917 --> 00:41:44,337 Thank you. 1057 00:41:44,419 --> 00:41:49,719 ♪ 1058 00:41:49,799 --> 00:41:51,379 Thank you for joining us. 1059 00:41:51,467 --> 00:41:53,427 This series was about providing a space 1060 00:41:53,553 --> 00:41:57,063 for women to come forward and tell their stories... 1061 00:41:57,181 --> 00:41:58,521 Okay. 1062 00:41:58,599 --> 00:42:00,679 ...and bringing those stories to an audience 1063 00:42:00,768 --> 00:42:01,888 who was ready to listen. 1064 00:42:02,020 --> 00:42:04,440 We wanna thank our brave contributors 1065 00:42:04,564 --> 00:42:06,524 and thank you for listening. 1066 00:42:06,607 --> 00:42:09,607 ♪ 1067 00:42:29,422 --> 00:42:31,722 Next week on "Secrets of Playboy," 1068 00:42:31,799 --> 00:42:33,879 the whistleblowers reunite, 1069 00:42:33,968 --> 00:42:36,548 and a new survivor comes forward. 1070 00:42:36,637 --> 00:42:39,137 The fairy tale turned into a nightmare. 1071 00:42:39,265 --> 00:42:44,055 It went from being fun to being abusive. 1072 00:42:44,145 --> 00:42:46,275 This is a circle of people that expected you 1073 00:42:46,355 --> 00:42:47,765 to be sexually available... -Uh-huh. 1074 00:42:47,857 --> 00:42:50,437 -...for these men. -Day and night. 1075 00:42:50,526 --> 00:42:53,236 Did he have sex with you without your consent? 1076 00:42:53,321 --> 00:42:56,321 Yes, he did. -We really need to stop 1077 00:42:56,449 --> 00:43:01,289 idolizing a man who I can tell you was a rapist. 1078 00:43:01,370 --> 00:43:03,000 You’re not getting away with this. 1079 00:43:03,122 --> 00:43:04,832 Whether you’re dead or not, 1080 00:43:04,957 --> 00:43:08,127 we’ve never been allowed to tell our story, but it’s our time.