1 00:00:46,088 --> 00:00:47,089 Hey! 2 00:00:49,550 --> 00:00:50,676 Welcome! 3 00:00:53,971 --> 00:00:55,556 Good evening, everybody. My name is Jon Stewart. 4 00:00:55,556 --> 00:00:59,726 Welcome to the finale of season 2 of The Problem. 5 00:01:02,187 --> 00:01:03,188 I thought that would get-- 6 00:01:03,188 --> 00:01:05,274 No, I thought-- It just seemed-- 7 00:01:05,274 --> 00:01:08,443 It was met with apathy on that one really. 8 00:01:08,443 --> 00:01:09,653 Welcome to the finale. 9 00:01:11,989 --> 00:01:12,990 My name is Jon Stewart. 10 00:01:12,990 --> 00:01:18,245 Obviously huge news this week that everyone’s talking about. 11 00:01:18,245 --> 00:01:22,374 Finally, the new Barbie posters are here. 12 00:01:22,958 --> 00:01:25,210 I mean, come on! 13 00:01:26,378 --> 00:01:27,546 Come on! 14 00:01:28,213 --> 00:01:29,882 Looking good! 15 00:01:31,133 --> 00:01:33,760 No one passes over this Yiddishe queen. 16 00:01:38,807 --> 00:01:40,809 That’s a Passover thing, I think. I don’t know. 17 00:01:41,310 --> 00:01:42,769 Of course, the other news this week was 18 00:01:42,769 --> 00:01:46,815 the official indictment of former president Donald J. Trump. 19 00:01:47,316 --> 00:01:48,317 It-- 20 00:01:52,696 --> 00:01:53,697 You bastards. 21 00:02:05,792 --> 00:02:09,463 And the finale of season 2. 22 00:02:11,215 --> 00:02:15,052 No! I don’t even want it! I don’t want your sympathy. 23 00:02:15,636 --> 00:02:17,679 I don’t want your sympathy applause. 24 00:02:19,264 --> 00:02:22,935 Donald J. Trump was indicted. It was the climax to the weeks-long orgy 25 00:02:22,935 --> 00:02:25,646 of media speculation and anticipation. 26 00:02:25,646 --> 00:02:30,526 And like most orgies, it began with directions. 27 00:02:30,526 --> 00:02:32,152 {\an8}Live pictures from Palm Beach. 28 00:02:32,152 --> 00:02:35,280 {\an8}The former president expected to be leaving any second. 29 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,241 {\an8}Currently on Ocean Boulevard. 30 00:02:37,241 --> 00:02:39,826 {\an8}And it’s gonna be taking a right turn onto Southern Boulevard, 31 00:02:39,826 --> 00:02:42,204 {\an8}five miles directly east to get to the airport. 32 00:02:42,204 --> 00:02:44,623 {\an8}And he will be crossing over onto Bingham Island, 33 00:02:44,623 --> 00:02:47,668 {\an8}which is the causeway that connects Palm Beach to West Palm Beach. 34 00:02:47,668 --> 00:02:52,464 {\an8}We should expect this ride to be about five, six minutes at that point, Andrea, 35 00:02:52,464 --> 00:02:55,008 {\an8}before he arrives to Palm Beach International Airport. 36 00:02:57,135 --> 00:03:00,347 Oh, my God. MapQuest is such a good TV show. 37 00:03:02,683 --> 00:03:04,184 What happens next? 38 00:03:04,184 --> 00:03:07,896 {\an8}The former president is gonna get out of that car and... 39 00:03:12,025 --> 00:03:14,403 {\an8}We’re obviously at quite a distance to see if 40 00:03:14,403 --> 00:03:16,947 {\an8}that is he going up the steps, the back of the plane. 41 00:03:19,491 --> 00:03:21,285 You fucking hate yourselves, don’t you? 42 00:03:22,828 --> 00:03:27,207 Now, of course, you can make the case that the news media soiled themselves 43 00:03:27,207 --> 00:03:29,459 in up-to-the-second footage narration, 44 00:03:30,294 --> 00:03:31,753 but this has been a difficult time for them. 45 00:03:31,753 --> 00:03:35,966 You see, the president was indicted on Thursday. A historic event. 46 00:03:35,966 --> 00:03:40,137 But unfortunately, the indictment was sealed until the arraignment on Tuesday, 47 00:03:40,137 --> 00:03:45,517 which left them only five days of abject, unanswerable speculation. 48 00:03:45,517 --> 00:03:47,352 To the dumbass machine! 49 00:03:48,061 --> 00:03:51,607 {\an8}So what will the upshot be politically of Donald Trump’s indictment? 50 00:03:51,607 --> 00:03:54,318 {\an8}Can I just get your kind of Chris-o-meter, 51 00:03:54,318 --> 00:03:58,697 {\an8}in terms of how much you think this changes the country, if at all? 52 00:03:58,697 --> 00:04:01,783 {\an8}Do you think the case in Manhattan benefits his political campaign? 53 00:04:01,783 --> 00:04:03,660 {\an8}Will it help him or hurt him? 54 00:04:03,660 --> 00:04:07,456 {\an8}You think historians will look back and say it helped Trump get reelected? 55 00:04:07,456 --> 00:04:12,252 This was a commercial-free, nonstop circle jerk-ararium. 56 00:04:13,670 --> 00:04:16,298 Now, normally I would say, all right, you’re overly excited 57 00:04:16,298 --> 00:04:18,132 and O.J. hasn’t killed anybody in years, 58 00:04:19,968 --> 00:04:23,764 and I’m sure you could be talking more about Florida passing permitless carry 59 00:04:23,764 --> 00:04:26,183 or Nashville's student protests 60 00:04:26,183 --> 00:04:29,645 or the heartless killing of a nine-year-old’s goat. 61 00:04:29,645 --> 00:04:31,146 Her goat! 62 00:04:32,397 --> 00:04:36,485 And worse, her goat was killed by this man! 63 00:04:37,277 --> 00:04:38,278 No! 64 00:04:40,906 --> 00:04:42,157 Damn you! 65 00:04:42,741 --> 00:04:45,118 First you ski into Gwyneth Paltrow 66 00:04:47,704 --> 00:04:51,625 and then you kill that girl’s goat. 67 00:04:54,711 --> 00:04:58,882 Will this skiing optometrist stop at nothing? 68 00:05:01,093 --> 00:05:03,762 Am I the only one who watched that trial? Why’s everybody-- 69 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,392 But perhaps the media’s speculation and anticipation and wonder 70 00:05:08,392 --> 00:05:09,685 will all be worth it. 71 00:05:10,185 --> 00:05:14,022 For on indictment day, it was Christmas morn for all. 72 00:05:14,022 --> 00:05:16,191 {\an8}The indictment can now be unsealed 73 00:05:16,191 --> 00:05:19,403 {\an8}and that is what we’re all waiting for with bated breath. 74 00:05:19,403 --> 00:05:22,197 {\an8}I’d love to just show everyone what we’ve been waiting for. 75 00:05:22,197 --> 00:05:24,241 {\an8}This is the indictment. So we now have it. 76 00:05:24,241 --> 00:05:27,953 He’s charged with 34 felony counts of falsifying business records 77 00:05:27,953 --> 00:05:28,912 in the first degree. 78 00:05:29,496 --> 00:05:31,832 Oh, my God, I’m going to fuck the shit out of that indictment. 79 00:05:33,208 --> 00:05:36,044 Oh, yeah! Read it to me. 80 00:05:47,264 --> 00:05:50,601 Can I tell you something? I’m so old that I do now literally only fuck 81 00:05:50,601 --> 00:05:51,685 on a rolling chair. 82 00:05:54,271 --> 00:05:56,148 It’s the only momentum I can build up. 83 00:05:58,525 --> 00:06:01,612 If your hips don’t move anymore, you need something to swivel. 84 00:06:04,990 --> 00:06:07,117 All right, the indictment came down. It’s 30-- 85 00:06:07,117 --> 00:06:09,077 You know what? I just forgot. I’m not a lawyer. 86 00:06:09,077 --> 00:06:11,038 Is any of this normal? 87 00:06:11,038 --> 00:06:13,457 {\an8}This DA’s office prosecutes this crime all the time. 88 00:06:13,457 --> 00:06:18,295 {\an8}This is a mundane business records crime that is not uncommon 89 00:06:18,295 --> 00:06:20,506 {\an8}and it’s not uncommon from this prosecutor. 90 00:06:21,673 --> 00:06:22,508 Well, that’s awesome. 91 00:06:22,508 --> 00:06:25,010 That’s just a normal indictment charging Donald J. Trump 92 00:06:25,010 --> 00:06:27,888 with 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. 93 00:06:27,888 --> 00:06:31,683 Or to translate that into jaded news-ish... 94 00:06:31,683 --> 00:06:34,645 {\an8}Do you see anything new in there today that you didn’t know? 95 00:06:34,645 --> 00:06:38,524 {\an8}No. In fact, I-- It’s kind of expected 96 00:06:38,524 --> 00:06:41,235 {\an8}that there would be less than people would want to read. 97 00:06:41,235 --> 00:06:42,653 {\an8}People felt it was a little underwhelming. 98 00:06:42,653 --> 00:06:44,363 {\an8}Some found it disappointing. 99 00:06:44,363 --> 00:06:46,490 {\an8}It depressed some people on the left. 100 00:06:47,157 --> 00:06:49,576 Were you disappointed? Were you depressed? Here’s why. 101 00:06:49,576 --> 00:06:53,247 ’Cause you treated this like the final confrontation with Thanos 102 00:06:53,247 --> 00:06:56,333 and then it actually just played out like what it was, 103 00:06:56,333 --> 00:06:59,962 a boring-as-shit legal procedure at the very beginning of 104 00:06:59,962 --> 00:07:04,091 what will be a long, drawn-out, laborious legal process 105 00:07:04,091 --> 00:07:08,804 because as I mentioned earlier, law is boring as shit. 106 00:07:10,764 --> 00:07:13,267 But please continue being let down 107 00:07:13,267 --> 00:07:16,937 by the expectations you motherfuckers created. 108 00:07:16,937 --> 00:07:19,314 {\an8}This is one of the most historic cases, 109 00:07:19,314 --> 00:07:23,652 {\an8}arguably the most significant case right now, in an American court system. 110 00:07:23,652 --> 00:07:27,072 {\an8}It appears to be built on a pretty shaky foundation. 111 00:07:27,072 --> 00:07:29,241 {\an8}It’s a bubble case. It’s not a slam dunk. 112 00:07:29,241 --> 00:07:31,785 {\an8}Commentators across the spectrum are saying, 113 00:07:31,785 --> 00:07:33,537 {\an8}"Boy, there’s really not much in here." 114 00:07:33,537 --> 00:07:36,957 {\an8}Raises all kinds of questions about the legal theory behind this case. 115 00:07:36,957 --> 00:07:38,584 {\an8}An unimpressive document. 116 00:07:38,584 --> 00:07:40,836 Right, ’cause it’s not the trial. 117 00:07:40,836 --> 00:07:42,546 You’re thinking of the trial part. 118 00:07:42,546 --> 00:07:45,632 It’s like if you look at a recipe for apple brown Betty 119 00:07:45,632 --> 00:07:49,511 and go, "Butter, apple, cinnamon. I don’t know, I’m underwhelmed. 120 00:07:49,511 --> 00:07:52,222 This isn’t delicious at all." 121 00:07:52,222 --> 00:07:56,101 Yeah, ’cause it’s fucking paper. It’s the recipe. 122 00:07:56,101 --> 00:07:58,896 It’s not the game, it’s the roster. 123 00:07:58,896 --> 00:08:04,318 And by the way, only our media, those cloistered, short-attention-span, 124 00:08:04,318 --> 00:08:06,612 own-ass-spelunking-- 125 00:08:10,991 --> 00:08:14,328 No, defenders of democracy 126 00:08:15,913 --> 00:08:20,834 find a president paying hush money to a Playboy model and an adult film star, 127 00:08:20,834 --> 00:08:26,089 and then cooking the books to help himself win an election, underwhelming and boring. 128 00:08:27,674 --> 00:08:30,177 By the way, does anybody-- and this is just an off-topic thing-- 129 00:08:30,177 --> 00:08:34,806 did anyone think $130,000 to Stormy Daniels seems a little light? 130 00:08:34,806 --> 00:08:38,309 Is that-- In this economy, in this mark-- 131 00:08:39,061 --> 00:08:40,229 The only thing I’m thinking is 132 00:08:40,229 --> 00:08:43,357 you could probably get that much hush money for banging an alderman. 133 00:08:43,357 --> 00:08:44,441 Like, it’s-- 134 00:08:44,942 --> 00:08:49,071 I’ve seen people get $750,000 for spilling coffee on themselves. 135 00:08:49,071 --> 00:08:52,157 Like, that’s just a dollar figure not of this era. 136 00:08:52,157 --> 00:08:55,452 That’s some shit, like, Taft or Coolidge would have pulled. 137 00:08:57,579 --> 00:09:02,543 Coolidge would have been like, "How about $130,000 or perhaps a Model T?" 138 00:09:04,878 --> 00:09:06,463 But I’m sorry, I interrupted you. 139 00:09:06,463 --> 00:09:11,051 {\an8}The one person we have not heard from is Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. 140 00:09:11,051 --> 00:09:12,719 {\an8}- Now, he is still in recovery... - Yeah. 141 00:09:12,719 --> 00:09:13,971 {\an8}...after that fall. 142 00:09:14,596 --> 00:09:18,308 {\an8}But talk about why the silence of Mitch McConnell, 143 00:09:18,308 --> 00:09:21,311 {\an8}fall or no fall, speaks volumes. 144 00:09:25,983 --> 00:09:27,693 I’m gonna go with "fall." 145 00:09:29,820 --> 00:09:31,947 Let me ask you, coma or no coma, 146 00:09:33,407 --> 00:09:37,494 why hasn’t Mitch McConnell responded or at least dilated his pupils? 147 00:09:39,413 --> 00:09:43,500 Epic fucking media fail. 148 00:09:44,501 --> 00:09:46,170 Now, there was a media organization that shined, 149 00:09:46,170 --> 00:09:48,005 that executed this story exactly the way 150 00:09:48,005 --> 00:09:50,132 their organization was intended to execute this story. 151 00:09:50,132 --> 00:09:53,135 Or at least according to their texts and emails. 152 00:09:54,094 --> 00:09:56,513 Fox News, a network founded on two sacred principles: 153 00:09:56,513 --> 00:09:58,140 that women should never wear pants 154 00:09:58,140 --> 00:10:02,603 and Republican presidents should never face consequences. Literally. 155 00:10:02,603 --> 00:10:04,938 Roger Ailes invented Fox News 156 00:10:04,938 --> 00:10:08,734 to make sure that the next Nixon got away with it, to protect their king. 157 00:10:09,234 --> 00:10:10,652 So how did they meet the moment? 158 00:10:11,153 --> 00:10:16,783 Pure, unadulterated, uncut, right in the veins, fear-laced catastrophizing. 159 00:10:16,783 --> 00:10:19,328 {\an8}I think this is a dark day, a dark moment in American history. 160 00:10:19,328 --> 00:10:25,083 {\an8}This is a war on the party. It is a war on conservatism and MAGA. 161 00:10:25,083 --> 00:10:27,419 {\an8}This country will become a banana republic. 162 00:10:27,419 --> 00:10:29,796 {\an8}The rule of law in the United States of America died. 163 00:10:29,796 --> 00:10:30,923 {\an8}- It’s dead. - It’s dead. 164 00:10:30,923 --> 00:10:32,257 {\an8}It’s like Stalin’s purges. 165 00:10:32,257 --> 00:10:34,051 {\an8}Probably not the best time to give up your AR-15. 166 00:10:34,051 --> 00:10:35,969 {\an8}The most threatening thing to our republic 167 00:10:35,969 --> 00:10:39,431 {\an8}since South Carolina fired shots at Fort Sumter and started the Civil War. 168 00:10:40,015 --> 00:10:42,643 I say, I say, what there, boy? 169 00:10:44,228 --> 00:10:46,730 You Yankees think you can come down here 170 00:10:46,730 --> 00:10:52,152 and keep me from utilizing fraudulent accounting to pay my adult film-- 171 00:10:52,152 --> 00:10:53,570 Well, not film, I guess, back then. 172 00:10:53,570 --> 00:10:56,823 But-- Stage? 173 00:10:58,242 --> 00:11:00,327 I don’t know what they did back then for porn. 174 00:11:00,327 --> 00:11:02,454 Did they have porn in the 18th ce-- All right. 175 00:11:05,582 --> 00:11:07,918 That’s crazy. 176 00:11:08,794 --> 00:11:10,879 But I’m not quite ready yet 177 00:11:10,879 --> 00:11:14,424 to take up arms against my fellow countrymen over this. 178 00:11:14,424 --> 00:11:15,843 Do you have anything else? 179 00:11:15,843 --> 00:11:17,135 {\an8}I’m gonna make a prediction. 180 00:11:17,135 --> 00:11:22,307 {\an8}By 2025, we are going to be at war. 181 00:11:22,307 --> 00:11:25,102 {\an8}We are going to have a new dollar, 182 00:11:25,102 --> 00:11:28,313 {\an8}a currency that probably is coming from the central bank. 183 00:11:28,313 --> 00:11:30,148 {\an8}We’ll have a currency collapse, 184 00:11:30,899 --> 00:11:33,944 {\an8}and we will live in a virtual police state. 185 00:11:33,944 --> 00:11:36,822 {\an8}The Bill of Rights is gone. 186 00:11:36,822 --> 00:11:42,494 {\an8}Please turn to God, repent, pray for our country, pray for peace. 187 00:11:42,494 --> 00:11:44,121 {\an8}Put on the full armor of God. 188 00:11:47,958 --> 00:11:49,626 Full armor of God and pray for p-- 189 00:11:49,626 --> 00:11:51,378 Yes, as it says in the Bible, 190 00:11:51,378 --> 00:11:56,925 "Blessed are the real estate moguls for they shall inherit the earth." 191 00:11:56,925 --> 00:11:59,720 Well, more of the earth than they inherited when they were born, 192 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,598 which was already a substantial part of the earth, but-- 193 00:12:03,348 --> 00:12:05,601 Shit got weird over at Fox. 194 00:12:05,601 --> 00:12:07,853 {\an8}Now, all of a sudden, consensual is a felony? 195 00:12:10,814 --> 00:12:14,151 First of all, why does it seem like he’s just learning the word consensual? 196 00:12:15,485 --> 00:12:16,737 But yeah, that’s what they’re doing. 197 00:12:16,737 --> 00:12:19,698 They’re charging Trump with a felony for consensual sex. 198 00:12:19,698 --> 00:12:21,158 That’s exactly what they’re doing. 199 00:12:21,867 --> 00:12:24,995 But the greatest mind trick, the Jedi mind trick 200 00:12:24,995 --> 00:12:29,208 in the reality distortion field of Fox’s arsenal came next. 201 00:12:29,208 --> 00:12:30,125 {\an8}He’s become a symbol. 202 00:12:30,125 --> 00:12:32,211 {\an8}He’s become a symbol for the disaffected man and woman 203 00:12:32,211 --> 00:12:34,046 {\an8}and the forgotten person in America. 204 00:12:34,046 --> 00:12:37,508 {\an8}They see Donald Trump as a symbol, really, of freedom-- 205 00:12:37,508 --> 00:12:41,220 {\an8}As a symbol for all the freedom-loving patriots in this country. 206 00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:43,013 {\an8}They’re really coming after all of us. 207 00:12:43,013 --> 00:12:44,515 {\an8}He’s the one that’s standing in the way 208 00:12:44,515 --> 00:12:46,975 {\an8}and he’s been that figure for us for so many years. 209 00:12:46,975 --> 00:12:49,228 {\an8}They gotta take him out so they can get to the rest of us. 210 00:12:49,228 --> 00:12:50,771 {\an8}But he’s gonna stand firm and strong. 211 00:12:50,771 --> 00:12:53,023 {\an8}If there was ever somebody to fight this fight, it’s Donald Trump. 212 00:12:53,023 --> 00:12:57,402 There it is folks. Donald Trump, selfless hero. 213 00:12:57,402 --> 00:12:59,488 A man who cannot go anywhere 214 00:12:59,488 --> 00:13:03,325 unless his name is in giant letters on that conveyance 215 00:13:03,325 --> 00:13:06,787 is an egoless freedom fighter for the little man, 216 00:13:06,787 --> 00:13:11,834 battling desperately until there is no one in his inner circle left 217 00:13:11,834 --> 00:13:13,335 to go to jail for him. 218 00:13:14,586 --> 00:13:19,716 A man whose malignant narcissism knows no bounds. 219 00:13:19,716 --> 00:13:25,264 Yeah, that guy is actually on the ramparts, shielding the regular joes. 220 00:13:25,264 --> 00:13:31,728 This motherfucker is so selfish, he didn’t even give his sons a jawline. 221 00:13:36,525 --> 00:13:39,236 My jawline, not their jawline, mine! 222 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,823 Trump is not fighting for you. 223 00:13:42,823 --> 00:13:47,369 You are his human shields and you always have been. 224 00:13:47,369 --> 00:13:48,662 And it’s a shame, 225 00:13:48,662 --> 00:13:51,582 because I’m not sure I would agree with any of you politically, 226 00:13:51,582 --> 00:13:54,376 but you deserve better. 227 00:13:55,502 --> 00:13:56,628 Let’s get to the panel. 228 00:13:58,255 --> 00:13:59,381 So... 229 00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:06,013 the media is screwing this up. 230 00:14:06,013 --> 00:14:10,434 To talk about why and how, we are joined remotely by Norman Ornstein, 231 00:14:10,434 --> 00:14:14,146 {\an8}a political scientist at the American Enterprise Institute. 232 00:14:14,146 --> 00:14:15,772 {\an8}Did I wake you up, Norman? 233 00:14:17,357 --> 00:14:19,818 You-- I-- You know, I’m now really upset 234 00:14:19,818 --> 00:14:22,154 because I left my full armor of God at home 235 00:14:22,154 --> 00:14:23,655 and I’m not gonna have it for my seder. 236 00:14:24,740 --> 00:14:26,366 - I don’t know what I’m gonna do. - Why don’t you-- 237 00:14:26,366 --> 00:14:29,203 And a chag sameach to you and the, what, the one Jew in the audience. 238 00:14:29,203 --> 00:14:33,415 Thank you. You should always have your full armor of God. 239 00:14:33,415 --> 00:14:35,918 Norman Ornstein, in all your experience, 240 00:14:35,918 --> 00:14:38,128 you’ve written books about the rise of Trump, 241 00:14:38,128 --> 00:14:40,923 about the media-industrial complex. 242 00:14:40,923 --> 00:14:47,137 I’m angrier at CNN almost more than any other organization. 243 00:14:47,137 --> 00:14:49,932 Why is coverage this way? 244 00:14:50,432 --> 00:14:53,393 {\an8}The one thing that I find most disturbing about the media, 245 00:14:53,393 --> 00:14:56,688 {\an8}is that there’s no learning curve whatsoever. 246 00:14:57,189 --> 00:15:03,028 This is a guy who called them basically the worst things imaginable. 247 00:15:03,028 --> 00:15:05,405 That the first people to go, 248 00:15:05,405 --> 00:15:09,368 if we ever get to that Trumpian autocracy, are gonna be the press. 249 00:15:09,868 --> 00:15:12,329 And they play into his hands over and over again. 250 00:15:12,913 --> 00:15:17,209 And, you know, the way they treated this, which you handled absolutely brilliantly, 251 00:15:17,209 --> 00:15:20,879 making this huge deal out of it and then saying there’s a nothing burger there, 252 00:15:21,380 --> 00:15:23,590 is just disgraceful. 253 00:15:24,258 --> 00:15:26,093 - And it’s not benign. - Maybe they are the enemy of the people. 254 00:15:26,093 --> 00:15:27,636 It’s not benign. 255 00:15:27,636 --> 00:15:30,848 Fox has weaponized misinformation, 256 00:15:30,848 --> 00:15:34,059 the internet has weaponized misinformation. 257 00:15:34,059 --> 00:15:38,814 And if you don’t have a tenacious counterforce 258 00:15:38,814 --> 00:15:42,401 battling that position at every turn, 259 00:15:43,026 --> 00:15:46,530 then misinformation that’s been weaponized wins the day. 260 00:15:47,406 --> 00:15:50,450 {\an8}Absolutely so, and of course, what’s also happened is 261 00:15:50,450 --> 00:15:54,371 {\an8}they bring on people who lie and who exaggerate 262 00:15:54,371 --> 00:15:56,957 {\an8}and there is no pushback whatsoever. 263 00:15:56,957 --> 00:16:01,545 They are normalizing the abnormal, they’re hyping what shouldn’t be hyped 264 00:16:01,545 --> 00:16:05,132 and they’re giving a pass to things that shouldn’t get a pass. 265 00:16:05,132 --> 00:16:08,177 And it happens over and over and over again. 266 00:16:08,177 --> 00:16:11,805 It’s Friday the 13th part 27 right now. 267 00:16:12,598 --> 00:16:15,058 Is that coming out, Norman? Because that sounds interesting. 268 00:16:15,058 --> 00:16:16,852 It’ll be on CNN. 269 00:16:19,188 --> 00:16:22,858 I really do wonder sometimes, 270 00:16:23,442 --> 00:16:26,195 in a healthy country, in a healthy democracy, 271 00:16:26,195 --> 00:16:31,533 you would think that the efforts that Donald Trump and his inner circle went 272 00:16:31,533 --> 00:16:35,162 to circumvent a democratic election 273 00:16:35,162 --> 00:16:39,374 would be disqualifying in a myriad of ways. 274 00:16:39,374 --> 00:16:44,379 Why do you think we are unable to hold presidents to account? 275 00:16:44,379 --> 00:16:46,673 One of the things that’s disturbing about this, 276 00:16:46,673 --> 00:16:49,009 and we saw this throughout Trump’s presidency, 277 00:16:49,968 --> 00:16:54,181 scandal after scandal after scandal, and the press couldn’t handle it. 278 00:16:54,181 --> 00:16:56,642 {\an8}Everything washed over itself. 279 00:16:56,642 --> 00:17:00,521 {\an8}And we’re gonna see this now with the different indictments that go forward. 280 00:17:00,521 --> 00:17:04,273 But they have to have a frame where each president, in that sense, 281 00:17:04,273 --> 00:17:05,901 is viewed in the same way. 282 00:17:05,901 --> 00:17:09,238 So the scandal with Barack Obama was he wore a tan suit. 283 00:17:09,820 --> 00:17:12,950 - I remember that, I remember that suit. - And Donald Trump basically taking-- 284 00:17:12,950 --> 00:17:15,743 - Yeah, it was a nice suit. - Yeah. 285 00:17:15,743 --> 00:17:18,872 And what’s so disturbing about this 286 00:17:18,872 --> 00:17:23,752 is that you don’t see any sense of self-reflection, any willingness to change 287 00:17:23,752 --> 00:17:26,839 and it’s leading us in a very bad place. 288 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,300 It does expose the river of corruption 289 00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:34,596 at the heart of the American so-called democratic capitalist system. 290 00:17:34,596 --> 00:17:38,433 That this idea of paying for favor, 291 00:17:38,433 --> 00:17:42,312 this moat that surrounds the nation’s capital 292 00:17:42,312 --> 00:17:45,774 that’s filled with money that nobody can trace 293 00:17:45,774 --> 00:17:48,944 and lobbyists that are not accountable to anybody. 294 00:17:48,944 --> 00:17:50,946 We’re Tammany Hall. 295 00:17:50,946 --> 00:17:56,618 And this entire country is built right now on that pay-to-play premise. 296 00:17:56,618 --> 00:18:01,623 Donald Trump has spent 60 years paying off people, 297 00:18:01,623 --> 00:18:06,128 using the system for his own good to avoid accountability. 298 00:18:06,879 --> 00:18:08,881 And whatever the press does, 299 00:18:08,881 --> 00:18:13,927 let’s hope the legal system finally brings some measure of accountability. 300 00:18:13,927 --> 00:18:18,348 And I also wanna say, Jon, that the stuff that was said about, 301 00:18:18,348 --> 00:18:20,434 "Well, there’s nothing new here," 302 00:18:20,434 --> 00:18:23,061 we actually know some new facts here. 303 00:18:23,061 --> 00:18:29,693 Including the fact that Trump wanted to hold Stormy Daniels-- 304 00:18:30,527 --> 00:18:32,988 To stay quiet through the election campaign 305 00:18:32,988 --> 00:18:34,323 and then not pay her. 306 00:18:34,823 --> 00:18:39,953 So he could bilk her even as he tried to use this to steal the election. 307 00:18:40,954 --> 00:18:42,706 We’re gonna find out a lot more 308 00:18:42,706 --> 00:18:46,418 and it involves a lot more than just Donald Trump. 309 00:18:46,418 --> 00:18:52,049 There was a massive attempt to use this process days before the election, 310 00:18:52,049 --> 00:18:57,387 after the tapes had come out from Access Hollywood, 311 00:18:57,387 --> 00:18:59,598 to avoid accountability in an election. 312 00:18:59,598 --> 00:19:05,270 And while this is not as serious as promoting a violent insurrection... 313 00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:06,563 Correct. 314 00:19:06,563 --> 00:19:10,567 ...as trying to convince the Secretary of State in Georgia 315 00:19:10,567 --> 00:19:16,823 and the governor to give him back Georgia by stealing 10,700-plus votes, 316 00:19:17,741 --> 00:19:20,369 the fact is that this probably had more to do 317 00:19:20,369 --> 00:19:23,789 with him winning the 2016 election illegitimately... 318 00:19:23,789 --> 00:19:25,374 - Right. - ...than those other things. 319 00:19:25,999 --> 00:19:29,419 Norman, it’s all information that really grabs me by my pussy. 320 00:19:29,419 --> 00:19:30,712 It really does. 321 00:19:31,713 --> 00:19:33,799 Norman Ornstein, thank you so much for joining us today. 322 00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:35,592 Well, you’re a celebrity, so you should. 323 00:19:35,592 --> 00:19:37,386 - Excellent work! - Thank you. 324 00:19:37,386 --> 00:19:38,470 So... 325 00:19:41,723 --> 00:19:44,726 A powerful person is being put through a legal process that is, 326 00:19:44,726 --> 00:19:47,771 quite frankly, ordinary for many people. 327 00:19:48,397 --> 00:19:49,815 Or to put that another way... 328 00:19:49,815 --> 00:19:54,319 {\an8}I never thought anything like this could happen in America. 329 00:19:54,319 --> 00:19:55,779 {\an8}I never thought it could happen. 330 00:19:55,779 --> 00:19:59,199 If I had, I probably wouldn’t have committed all those crimes 331 00:20:00,158 --> 00:20:01,159 for all those years. 332 00:20:01,159 --> 00:20:02,870 But if there’s one positive, 333 00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:07,749 it’s that those on the right are now finally woke to something 334 00:20:07,749 --> 00:20:10,919 that the powerless have experienced for centuries. 335 00:20:10,919 --> 00:20:12,588 {\an8}There’s a two-tiered system of justice. 336 00:20:12,588 --> 00:20:14,339 {\an8}There is no longer in this country-- 337 00:20:14,339 --> 00:20:18,260 {\an8}And I say this with a lot of sadness, equal justice under the law 338 00:20:18,260 --> 00:20:20,512 {\an8}or equal application of our laws. 339 00:20:20,512 --> 00:20:23,390 {\an8}Sadly, we do have a two-tiered system of justice. 340 00:20:23,390 --> 00:20:25,851 {\an8}What are we going to do about these two standards of justice? 341 00:20:25,851 --> 00:20:27,936 Archie, Archie? 342 00:20:29,479 --> 00:20:33,775 There’s a two-tiered system of justice, Archie. 343 00:20:35,068 --> 00:20:37,196 Now Meathead is here. 344 00:20:39,072 --> 00:20:41,450 But there is. But here’s the thing-- 345 00:20:42,117 --> 00:20:44,870 You know Trump is in the good tier, right? 346 00:20:45,829 --> 00:20:47,414 He’s in this tier. 347 00:20:47,414 --> 00:20:49,833 {\an8}Former President Trump successful today 348 00:20:49,833 --> 00:20:53,170 {\an8}in a request to delay the release of White House documents. 349 00:20:53,170 --> 00:20:56,798 {\an8}Trump’s lawyers filed to have her case moved from state to federal court... 350 00:20:56,798 --> 00:20:59,009 {\an8}...refusing to cooperate with the impeachment inquiry. 351 00:20:59,009 --> 00:21:00,511 {\an8}He is challenging that subpoena. 352 00:21:00,511 --> 00:21:03,680 {\an8}Block the FBI from looking at the seized materials 353 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,849 {\an8}until a special master can be appointed. 354 00:21:05,849 --> 00:21:06,934 Oh, yeah, Your Honor, 355 00:21:06,934 --> 00:21:09,269 I prefer you not look at the liquor store security footage 356 00:21:09,269 --> 00:21:11,355 until a special master that don’t-- 357 00:21:11,355 --> 00:21:12,898 Fuck it! Easy on the wrists. 358 00:21:15,484 --> 00:21:17,736 To be fair, you are well within your rights 359 00:21:17,736 --> 00:21:20,739 to vigorously defend yourself against legal charges. 360 00:21:20,739 --> 00:21:23,075 And that’s what this process is going to entail. 361 00:21:23,742 --> 00:21:28,497 But in the not-good tier, you don’t have the resources to do that. 362 00:21:28,997 --> 00:21:31,250 And chances are you don’t have this either. 363 00:21:31,250 --> 00:21:35,379 {\an8}DonaldJTrump.com. Go tonight. 364 00:21:35,379 --> 00:21:38,340 {\an8}Give the president some money to fight this bullshit. 365 00:21:41,218 --> 00:21:44,972 You are not in the bad tier of our justice system 366 00:21:45,472 --> 00:21:49,893 if a US senator is fronting your GoFundMe page. 367 00:21:51,353 --> 00:21:54,231 But as those in the bad tier know, when in doubt, 368 00:21:54,231 --> 00:21:58,402 launch veiled threats on the prosecutors’ and judges’ families. 369 00:21:58,402 --> 00:22:01,738 {\an8}This lunatic special prosecutor named Jack Smith, 370 00:22:01,738 --> 00:22:03,532 {\an8}I wonder what it was prior to a change. 371 00:22:03,532 --> 00:22:08,495 {\an8}I have a Trump-hating judge with a Trump-hating wife and family. 372 00:22:09,079 --> 00:22:11,832 {\an8}Whose daughter worked for Kamala Harris 373 00:22:12,416 --> 00:22:15,502 {\an8}and now receives money from the Biden-Harris campaign. 374 00:22:15,502 --> 00:22:16,587 Look, I’m not a lawyer 375 00:22:16,587 --> 00:22:19,548 but I’m pretty sure most people can’t get away with doing that. 376 00:22:19,548 --> 00:22:21,216 You know what else they can’t do? 377 00:22:21,216 --> 00:22:23,802 Just claim that by their nature of being, 378 00:22:23,802 --> 00:22:27,931 they are universally, cosmically unable to crime. 379 00:22:27,931 --> 00:22:31,143 {\an8}Donald Trump is actually claiming absolute immunity 380 00:22:31,143 --> 00:22:32,686 {\an8}from criminal investigation. 381 00:22:32,686 --> 00:22:36,190 How much crime do you have to do... 382 00:22:38,567 --> 00:22:41,862 to build up absolute immunity? 383 00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:46,074 Is that immunity coming from committing crimes 384 00:22:46,074 --> 00:22:48,243 or did you get the crime jab? 385 00:22:48,243 --> 00:22:49,745 Did you get the jab? 386 00:22:49,745 --> 00:22:53,290 The MRNA-Bill-Gates-crime jab? 387 00:22:54,166 --> 00:22:56,585 He’s tracking your crime. 388 00:22:58,253 --> 00:22:59,880 Trump has used privilege and wealth 389 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,800 to protect himself from legal accountability at every turn. 390 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:09,306 He has lived his entire adult life in the space twixt illegal and unethical. 391 00:23:09,848 --> 00:23:14,061 He’s in the tier where you get the platinum arraignment package. 392 00:23:14,061 --> 00:23:16,146 No cuffs. No mug shot. 393 00:23:16,146 --> 00:23:18,065 All-you-can-eat fingerprint ink. 394 00:23:18,065 --> 00:23:21,485 You think regular people get to surround themselves 395 00:23:21,485 --> 00:23:26,073 with a meat shield of henchmen to go to prison in their place? 396 00:23:26,615 --> 00:23:29,535 But if you really wanna know what tier Donald Trump is in, 397 00:23:29,535 --> 00:23:33,872 let’s look at an actual fraud we know he was guilty of. 398 00:23:34,414 --> 00:23:38,085 He used his own charitable foundation like a piggy bank. 399 00:23:38,085 --> 00:23:41,547 Or as it’s sometimes known: embezzlement. 400 00:23:41,547 --> 00:23:43,966 {\an8}"A shocking pattern of illegality, 401 00:23:43,966 --> 00:23:48,136 {\an8}including unlawful coordination with the Trump presidential campaign, 402 00:23:48,136 --> 00:23:51,473 {\an8}repeated and willful self-dealing and much more." 403 00:23:51,473 --> 00:23:56,645 He stole from his own charitable foundation. 404 00:23:56,645 --> 00:23:58,564 How much more could-- 405 00:23:58,564 --> 00:24:01,358 What, did he also nut punch a priest? Like... 406 00:24:04,027 --> 00:24:07,155 How are non-Trumps punished for something like that? 407 00:24:07,155 --> 00:24:09,408 Well, some get two years in jail. 408 00:24:09,408 --> 00:24:11,785 Some get five years in jail. 409 00:24:11,785 --> 00:24:15,831 Some get ten years in jail 410 00:24:15,831 --> 00:24:19,585 for stealing from charitable donations. 411 00:24:19,585 --> 00:24:25,299 But what happened to this selfless shield of the working man? 412 00:24:26,633 --> 00:24:29,344 Well, he agreed to shut down his charity piggy bank 413 00:24:29,344 --> 00:24:32,639 and paid a $2 million settlement. 414 00:24:32,639 --> 00:24:37,686 Or on your Trump conversion chart, 15-16 porn star hushings. 415 00:24:39,062 --> 00:24:41,190 He wasn’t even charged with a crime. 416 00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:42,983 So when people say this... 417 00:24:42,983 --> 00:24:45,736 {\an8}It’s selective prosecution and it’s wrong. 418 00:24:45,736 --> 00:24:48,071 {\an8}Selective prosecution on steroids. 419 00:24:48,071 --> 00:24:49,781 {\an8}It does feel like a selective prosecution. 420 00:24:49,781 --> 00:24:52,826 {\an8}If his name were John Smith, 421 00:24:52,826 --> 00:24:55,120 {\an8}no, Bragg would not be bringing this case. 422 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,498 If his name was John Smith, he’d be in jail already. 423 00:24:59,041 --> 00:25:01,126 He-- Yes. 424 00:25:03,462 --> 00:25:04,880 It’s all selective prosecution. 425 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,382 And when you’re in the good tier, you can do whatever you want 426 00:25:07,382 --> 00:25:08,675 and you’re probably gonna be fine. 427 00:25:08,675 --> 00:25:11,803 In fact, you might even be president twice. 428 00:25:12,387 --> 00:25:14,723 Anyway, we got ourselves-- 429 00:25:16,892 --> 00:25:18,769 We do have a two-tiered system of justice. 430 00:25:18,769 --> 00:25:21,396 And we’re gonna talk to someone who’s actually been a victim of this system, 431 00:25:21,396 --> 00:25:23,106 and someone who can verify what’s broken. 432 00:25:23,106 --> 00:25:27,236 {\an8}Please welcome Melissa Murray, a legal scholar and law professor at NYU 433 00:25:27,236 --> 00:25:29,154 {\an8}and an MSNBC/NBC News contributor. 434 00:25:29,154 --> 00:25:32,950 {\an8}And Jay Jordan, CEO of Alliance for Safety and Justice 435 00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:36,370 {\an8}and National Director of the TimeDone campaign, 436 00:25:36,370 --> 00:25:38,372 {\an8}which organizes people with past conviction records 437 00:25:38,372 --> 00:25:41,458 {\an8}to eliminate the barriers blocking them from success. 438 00:25:41,458 --> 00:25:43,168 Guys, welcome to the program. 439 00:25:44,795 --> 00:25:46,296 Jay, I’m gonna talk to you first. 440 00:25:50,384 --> 00:25:52,135 - You’ve been in the system. - Yeah. 441 00:25:52,135 --> 00:25:53,554 You have spent time in jail. 442 00:25:53,554 --> 00:25:57,474 When you were arraigned, did you pick the Zoom option? 443 00:25:57,474 --> 00:26:02,187 And did you go with the optional-mug-shot, no-handcuffs approach, 444 00:26:02,187 --> 00:26:05,691 or did you say, "I want the traditional experience"? 445 00:26:08,819 --> 00:26:11,446 - You know, I laugh but it’s quite serious... - Yes. 446 00:26:11,446 --> 00:26:13,991 ...what happens when people get arrested in this country. 447 00:26:13,991 --> 00:26:17,077 Especially if you are poor. 448 00:26:17,077 --> 00:26:20,455 If you don’t have the means to turn yourself in. 449 00:26:21,373 --> 00:26:25,127 And that’s the vast majority of people that get arrested in this country. 450 00:26:25,127 --> 00:26:26,628 - Three out of four people... - Yeah. 451 00:26:26,628 --> 00:26:29,006 ...that are currently incarcerated 452 00:26:29,006 --> 00:26:32,593 live right by or below the supplemental poverty line. 453 00:26:32,593 --> 00:26:34,219 So we’re literally talking about poor folks 454 00:26:34,219 --> 00:26:35,637 that are getting swept up in the system. 455 00:26:35,637 --> 00:26:37,764 When I got arrested, they came with dogs. 456 00:26:37,764 --> 00:26:40,100 I got tased right in front of my two-year-old nephew. 457 00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:42,895 Like, people are getting brutalized when they get arrested. 458 00:26:42,895 --> 00:26:47,941 I remember my first time getting arrested was stealing a bottle of Hennessy, right? 459 00:26:47,941 --> 00:26:50,903 I was 15 years old. 15 years old. Fifteen. 460 00:26:50,903 --> 00:26:52,237 We’re in a car, we’re drinking. 461 00:26:52,237 --> 00:26:55,157 Police pull behind us, we get yanked out of the car. 462 00:26:55,157 --> 00:26:58,827 And there’s a phrase that everybody knows who’ve been brutalized by the police. 463 00:26:58,827 --> 00:27:00,412 Everybody knows this phrase. 464 00:27:00,412 --> 00:27:02,414 - It’s "quit resisting." - Right. 465 00:27:02,414 --> 00:27:04,499 And when they say that, they know that is a green light 466 00:27:04,499 --> 00:27:05,667 - to brutalize you. - Right. 467 00:27:05,667 --> 00:27:07,461 That was my first instance of getting arrested. 468 00:27:07,461 --> 00:27:10,797 Fifteen years old, for a bottle of Hennessy, getting beat up by the cops. 469 00:27:10,797 --> 00:27:11,882 So, you know, no-- 470 00:27:11,882 --> 00:27:13,717 When you see that-- When you watch somebody 471 00:27:13,717 --> 00:27:15,219 and they say, like, "Well, you know, 472 00:27:15,219 --> 00:27:18,555 if you had just taken money from your charitable foundation 473 00:27:18,555 --> 00:27:20,432 and bought the Hennessy, 474 00:27:20,432 --> 00:27:23,227 and pretended that it was an expense for there, 475 00:27:23,227 --> 00:27:24,978 everything would be fucking fine." 476 00:27:24,978 --> 00:27:27,105 Like, that must be infuriating. 477 00:27:27,105 --> 00:27:30,359 I mean, how the great Bryan Stevenson puts it, 478 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,444 "In this country, if you are wealthy and guilty, 479 00:27:32,444 --> 00:27:34,404 you’re treated better than if you’re poor and innocent." 480 00:27:34,404 --> 00:27:36,782 {\an8}We do have two different systems of justice. 481 00:27:36,782 --> 00:27:39,201 One for those who are poor and those with resources. 482 00:27:39,201 --> 00:27:41,703 And it’s very different. We’re seeing that play out right now. 483 00:27:41,703 --> 00:27:45,749 I think a big part of the sort of playing down of these charges that we’ve seen 484 00:27:45,749 --> 00:27:47,543 is what the media has done. 485 00:27:47,543 --> 00:27:50,379 I mean, I think they were expecting something explosive. And not really-- 486 00:27:50,379 --> 00:27:53,215 - But they created that expectation. - For sure, for sure. 487 00:27:53,215 --> 00:27:57,010 I mean, they were hoping for a perp walk and maybe an orange jumpsuit. 488 00:27:57,010 --> 00:27:58,762 But this is a process, right? 489 00:27:58,762 --> 00:27:59,847 There’s an arraignment, 490 00:27:59,847 --> 00:28:01,765 and this was just the first act 491 00:28:01,765 --> 00:28:04,643 of what will be a very long and drawn-out process. 492 00:28:04,643 --> 00:28:08,897 But to their point though, this is unprecedented to some degree 493 00:28:08,897 --> 00:28:10,816 because of who Donald Trump is. 494 00:28:10,816 --> 00:28:12,484 He is a former president. 495 00:28:12,484 --> 00:28:14,486 And, you know, I’m a law professor. 496 00:28:14,486 --> 00:28:17,906 - We don’t lead very exciting lives, but-- - Stop it. 497 00:28:17,906 --> 00:28:20,409 I mean, this is the most fun I’ve had in a while. 498 00:28:20,409 --> 00:28:21,493 What? 499 00:28:22,244 --> 00:28:23,871 We have a long haul to go. 500 00:28:23,871 --> 00:28:26,331 We don’t know what evidence Alvin Bragg has. 501 00:28:26,331 --> 00:28:28,876 We don’t know whether these charges are thin 502 00:28:28,876 --> 00:28:30,502 because we don’t know what’s underlying them. 503 00:28:30,502 --> 00:28:33,088 And so to say, "It’s a weak case," it’s this or that, 504 00:28:33,088 --> 00:28:34,756 we don’t know that. They don’t know that. 505 00:28:34,756 --> 00:28:37,301 None of those people have been to law school, and I know that. 506 00:28:38,802 --> 00:28:40,220 Well, that must be frustrating too. 507 00:28:42,181 --> 00:28:46,018 {\an8}So, you know, after this, the process is, you know, 508 00:28:46,018 --> 00:28:47,853 {\an8}"We’ll see what the evidence is," right? 509 00:28:48,812 --> 00:28:51,231 The problem with everybody else in the system, 510 00:28:51,231 --> 00:28:54,484 which is 97% of people take a plea deal-- 511 00:28:54,484 --> 00:28:58,197 Most people who take a plea deal never see the evidence against them. 512 00:28:58,197 --> 00:28:59,656 Never see the evidence against them. 513 00:28:59,656 --> 00:29:00,574 - Is that-- - Ever. 514 00:29:00,574 --> 00:29:02,034 - That’s true? - That is true. 515 00:29:02,034 --> 00:29:04,494 They never see the evidence, so they’re taking plea deals. 516 00:29:04,494 --> 00:29:06,246 I’m gonna tell you why, right? 517 00:29:06,246 --> 00:29:07,789 Like, so when you are arrested, 518 00:29:07,789 --> 00:29:12,211 there are two main factors in our current system 519 00:29:12,211 --> 00:29:16,924 that dictates the severity of your stay and the length of your stay. 520 00:29:16,924 --> 00:29:20,385 And it is if you can make bail and if you can buy yourself an attorney. 521 00:29:20,385 --> 00:29:22,262 If you can’t do those two things, 522 00:29:22,262 --> 00:29:25,057 you’re getting a public defender who are overworked and underpaid... 523 00:29:25,057 --> 00:29:27,142 - Right. Toughest job of all. - ...have dozens of people on their caseload. 524 00:29:27,142 --> 00:29:28,644 - Toughest job in law. - Toughest job on the beat. 525 00:29:28,644 --> 00:29:31,939 So you take the deal, you don’t see the evidence-- and get this-- 526 00:29:32,564 --> 00:29:35,651 They don’t have to tell you about the collateral consequences you face 527 00:29:35,651 --> 00:29:37,194 after you take the deal. 528 00:29:37,194 --> 00:29:39,863 So the 97% of people that are taking these deals 529 00:29:39,863 --> 00:29:43,116 don’t even know that they’re gonna face 40,000 legal restrictions 530 00:29:43,116 --> 00:29:44,660 after they serve their time. 531 00:29:44,660 --> 00:29:47,329 How is that ok-- How is that legal? 532 00:29:47,329 --> 00:29:49,706 {\an8}Well, so, first of all, the entire legal system-- 533 00:29:49,706 --> 00:29:52,376 {\an8}I don’t mean to look at you like, "You created this system!" 534 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,086 Melissa? 535 00:29:54,086 --> 00:29:55,379 I just work here. 536 00:29:55,921 --> 00:29:57,005 It really is. 537 00:29:57,005 --> 00:30:00,300 As a general matter on both the civil side and the criminal side, 538 00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:02,553 most cases end with a settlement, 539 00:30:02,553 --> 00:30:05,848 whether that is on the civil side an actual settlement between the parties. 540 00:30:05,848 --> 00:30:08,350 And we learned a lot about that during the #MeToo era 541 00:30:08,350 --> 00:30:11,144 with nondisclosure agreements and settlement of certain cases. 542 00:30:11,144 --> 00:30:13,522 But on the criminal side, the settlement is the plea deal. 543 00:30:13,522 --> 00:30:16,400 And if you are poor, if you don’t have money for bail, 544 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,235 if you are worried about your job, 545 00:30:18,235 --> 00:30:21,405 and they’re offering you a misdemeanor-- that may have collateral consequences... 546 00:30:21,405 --> 00:30:23,115 - Yeah. - ...that you don’t know about. 547 00:30:23,115 --> 00:30:25,033 But a misdemeanor as opposed to jail time, 548 00:30:25,033 --> 00:30:28,245 you might just take it and get railroaded into this and th-- 549 00:30:28,245 --> 00:30:29,621 You have no recourse. 550 00:30:29,621 --> 00:30:31,707 - I mean, that’s part of it. - No, you don’t. 551 00:30:31,707 --> 00:30:33,792 And is that the shock that we’re seeing in this system? 552 00:30:33,792 --> 00:30:36,587 This idea that, "Oh, my God, he’s gonna have to face consequences." 553 00:30:36,587 --> 00:30:39,047 For sure. I mean, again, this is a man 554 00:30:39,047 --> 00:30:43,135 who is no stranger to legal liability, both civil-- 555 00:30:43,135 --> 00:30:44,887 {\an8}He hasn’t had criminal liability against him. 556 00:30:44,887 --> 00:30:47,890 {\an8}Now it looks like not only may he have criminal exposure in this case, 557 00:30:47,890 --> 00:30:51,059 {\an8}but there may also be other cases both at the state level in Georgia 558 00:30:51,059 --> 00:30:54,229 - and at the federal level that-- - But he only hasn’t had criminal exposure 559 00:30:54,229 --> 00:30:56,148 - because of his resources. - No-- Undoubtedly. 560 00:30:56,148 --> 00:30:58,150 A normal person who committed those things 561 00:30:58,150 --> 00:30:59,943 - would have criminal exposure. - Undoubt-- 562 00:30:59,943 --> 00:31:03,530 And even now, his treatment in the legal system 563 00:31:04,114 --> 00:31:07,451 reflects the incredible privileges that he does have. 564 00:31:07,451 --> 00:31:11,622 Jay, there’s gotta be a ray of lightness, and you know, 565 00:31:11,622 --> 00:31:13,332 in getting to know you a little bit here-- 566 00:31:13,332 --> 00:31:19,379 I am shocked by what you went through and your resilience to that. 567 00:31:19,379 --> 00:31:21,965 Is there a light here that we can learn from? 568 00:31:21,965 --> 00:31:24,843 - Is there something to take from this? - Two points. 569 00:31:24,843 --> 00:31:26,845 So I wanna make a point about the system itself 570 00:31:26,845 --> 00:31:28,388 {\an8}and what we’re up against, 571 00:31:28,388 --> 00:31:30,057 {\an8}and then what we can actually do, right? 572 00:31:30,057 --> 00:31:31,934 {\an8}Or give people a green light to do something. 573 00:31:31,934 --> 00:31:36,021 So this judicial bureaucracy, right? 574 00:31:36,021 --> 00:31:37,523 Just to give everybody 575 00:31:37,523 --> 00:31:42,069 a sense of what we have been able to build or allow being built under our watch. 576 00:31:42,069 --> 00:31:47,866 Since 1985-- my entire life-- we’ve spent $11 trillion building this system. 577 00:31:47,866 --> 00:31:52,329 Eleven trillion dollars. That’s four times what we spent in Syria and Iraq. 578 00:31:52,329 --> 00:31:54,748 We are talking about a nation-building strategy 579 00:31:54,748 --> 00:31:57,668 that has forced America to become the largest jailor, point one. 580 00:31:57,668 --> 00:31:59,503 Point two, right, 581 00:31:59,503 --> 00:32:03,966 that it is the second-largest employer in the world. 582 00:32:03,966 --> 00:32:05,634 - Department of Defense, first. - What? 583 00:32:05,634 --> 00:32:09,721 The American judicial bureaucracy, second, Walmart, third, right? 584 00:32:09,721 --> 00:32:10,889 - That’s how big it is. - What? 585 00:32:10,889 --> 00:32:15,561 Yes, that’s how big it is. Employs 2.5 million people. 586 00:32:15,561 --> 00:32:17,771 Right? A lot of people are tied to this. 587 00:32:17,771 --> 00:32:22,985 Three, they spend 300 million-- $300 billion every single year. 588 00:32:22,985 --> 00:32:25,737 Three hundred billion dollars every single year. 589 00:32:25,737 --> 00:32:28,448 And they have these associations and lobbyists. 590 00:32:28,448 --> 00:32:30,367 I’ve been against these lobbyists in the state houses. 591 00:32:30,367 --> 00:32:33,370 They show up in their Armani suits smelling like a Macy’s counter, 592 00:32:33,370 --> 00:32:35,038 and they’re scary. Right? 593 00:32:35,038 --> 00:32:37,374 So it’s a protective shield 594 00:32:37,374 --> 00:32:40,127 that we’re talking about, and it focuses on poor people. 595 00:32:40,127 --> 00:32:43,046 Again, three out of four people that get sucked up in the system 596 00:32:43,046 --> 00:32:45,257 are living below the supplemental poverty line. 597 00:32:45,257 --> 00:32:49,052 Like, poor people to the justice system is like Big Macs to McDonald’s. 598 00:32:49,052 --> 00:32:51,388 It is a system, and it works, 599 00:32:51,388 --> 00:32:55,642 and we don’t have a effective justice system. 600 00:32:55,642 --> 00:32:57,978 We trade justice for judicial efficiency. 601 00:32:57,978 --> 00:33:00,731 - But let me tell you this-- - I’m hoping there’s a "but" in here, Jay. 602 00:33:00,731 --> 00:33:02,316 - I can tell you here-- - Because right now, 603 00:33:02,316 --> 00:33:04,109 I’m just feeling like, "Oh, God." 604 00:33:04,109 --> 00:33:08,280 I am hopeful for all the people out there 605 00:33:08,822 --> 00:33:10,407 that are like, "We can do something about it." 606 00:33:10,407 --> 00:33:12,284 So we always get turned around when we say, 607 00:33:12,284 --> 00:33:13,869 "Well, I want to abolish the system 608 00:33:13,869 --> 00:33:16,413 or reform the system or transform the system," 609 00:33:16,413 --> 00:33:19,541 and you’re like, "You’re too woke," or "That’s too progressive," right? 610 00:33:19,541 --> 00:33:22,628 Well, let me tell you something, in the Declaration of Independence-- 611 00:33:23,378 --> 00:33:25,923 In the Declaration of Independence of this country, 612 00:33:25,923 --> 00:33:27,257 we stop reading when it says, 613 00:33:27,257 --> 00:33:28,926 "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." 614 00:33:28,926 --> 00:33:32,137 But what say-- What they say after that gives me hope. 615 00:33:32,137 --> 00:33:36,141 It says that any moment in time that government becomes destructive to us 616 00:33:36,141 --> 00:33:39,728 means it is the right of the people to abolish or alter it 617 00:33:39,728 --> 00:33:42,481 and create a new system of government. 618 00:33:42,481 --> 00:33:45,776 So if you’re talking about abolition or reform, 619 00:33:45,776 --> 00:33:47,861 it is not that you’re too woke, it’s you’re patriotic. 620 00:33:47,861 --> 00:33:49,655 So please take up, you know, 621 00:33:49,655 --> 00:33:51,990 - a legal appeal-- - Yeah! Come on! 622 00:33:53,242 --> 00:33:54,159 Become a lobbyist, 623 00:33:54,159 --> 00:33:55,661 - become a law professor-- - Jay Jordan! 624 00:33:55,661 --> 00:33:57,579 Become an organizer because we need-- 625 00:33:57,579 --> 00:33:59,790 That’s the only way we’re gonna get through this. 626 00:34:00,707 --> 00:34:02,167 I needed that! 627 00:34:03,168 --> 00:34:05,295 That was like a Jamba Juice. Yes! 628 00:34:07,339 --> 00:34:11,467 Thank you, both for being here and for giving us 629 00:34:11,467 --> 00:34:15,429 your wisdom, your analysis and most importantly, your perspective. 630 00:34:16,056 --> 00:34:17,056 Thank you very much. 631 00:34:17,056 --> 00:34:19,184 Jay Jordan. Melissa Murray. 632 00:34:20,101 --> 00:34:21,103 Thank you both. 633 00:34:21,103 --> 00:34:24,063 All right, everybody, that is our show. 634 00:34:25,023 --> 00:34:27,317 Get your frequent viewer cards punched before you leave. 635 00:34:27,317 --> 00:34:31,237 {\an8}If you want more content there, head to our website. 636 00:34:31,237 --> 00:34:33,949 {\an8}Elon just turned it into a Doge website. 637 00:34:35,033 --> 00:34:37,202 {\an8}You’ll love it. I also got a podcast there 638 00:34:37,202 --> 00:34:39,580 {\an8}that I record from the lighthouse that I call my home. 639 00:34:39,580 --> 00:34:42,916 {\an8}All right, we’re ending tonight with one final "for fuck’s sake." 640 00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:45,543 {\an8}- I’m gonna interrupt you for one second-- - I think-- 641 00:34:45,543 --> 00:34:49,172 {\an8}I’m gonna interrupt you because this is one of the photographs that we just got. 642 00:34:49,172 --> 00:34:53,177 {\an8}The photograph is stark, and historic as we look at it. 643 00:34:53,177 --> 00:34:55,846 {\an8}Donald Trump with a-- 644 00:34:55,846 --> 00:34:57,764 {\an8}I don’t know how to characterize his face, 645 00:34:57,764 --> 00:35:00,392 {\an8}but certainly a serious expression on his face. 646 00:35:01,977 --> 00:35:04,229 {\an8}Alyssa Farah Griffin, is she with us? 647 00:35:04,229 --> 00:35:08,775 {\an8}If she is, I’d love her to weigh in on what she sees in this picture. 648 00:35:09,443 --> 00:35:12,654 {\an8}Jake. I mean, that’s a man who looks like a defendant.