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Hey!
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Welcome!
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Good evening, everybody.
My name is Jon Stewart.
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Welcome to the finale of
season 2 of The Problem.
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I thought that would get--
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No, I thought-- It just seemed--
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It was met with apathy
on that one really.
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Welcome to the finale.
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My name is Jon Stewart.
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Obviously huge news this week
that everyone’s talking about.
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Finally, the new Barbie posters are here.
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I mean, come on!
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Come on!
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Looking good!
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No one passes over this Yiddishe queen.
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That’s a Passover thing, I think.
I don’t know.
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Of course, the other news this week was
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the official indictment of
former president Donald J. Trump.
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It--
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You bastards.
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And the finale of season 2.
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No! I don’t even want it!
I don’t want your sympathy.
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I don’t want your sympathy applause.
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Donald J. Trump was indicted.
It was the climax to the weeks-long orgy
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of media speculation and anticipation.
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And like most orgies,
it began with directions.
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{\an8}Live pictures from Palm Beach.
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{\an8}The former president expected
to be leaving any second.
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{\an8}Currently on Ocean Boulevard.
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{\an8}And it’s gonna be taking
a right turn onto Southern Boulevard,
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{\an8}five miles directly east
to get to the airport.
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{\an8}And he will be crossing over
onto Bingham Island,
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{\an8}which is the causeway that connects
Palm Beach to West Palm Beach.
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{\an8}We should expect this ride to be about
five, six minutes at that point, Andrea,
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{\an8}before he arrives
to Palm Beach International Airport.
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Oh, my God.
MapQuest is such a good TV show.
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What happens next?
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{\an8}The former president is gonna
get out of that car and...
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{\an8}We’re obviously at quite
a distance to see if
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{\an8}that is he going up the steps,
the back of the plane.
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You fucking hate yourselves, don’t you?
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Now, of course, you can make the case
that the news media soiled themselves
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in up-to-the-second footage narration,
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but this has been
a difficult time for them.
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You see, the president was indicted
on Thursday. A historic event.
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But unfortunately, the indictment was
sealed until the arraignment on Tuesday,
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which left them only five days of
abject, unanswerable speculation.
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To the dumbass machine!
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{\an8}So what will the upshot be politically of
Donald Trump’s indictment?
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{\an8}Can I just get your kind of Chris-o-meter,
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{\an8}in terms of how much you think
this changes the country, if at all?
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{\an8}Do you think the case in Manhattan
benefits his political campaign?
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{\an8}Will it help him or hurt him?
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{\an8}You think historians will look back
and say it helped Trump get reelected?
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This was a commercial-free,
nonstop circle jerk-ararium.
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Now, normally I would say,
all right, you’re overly excited
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and O.J. hasn’t killed anybody in years,
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and I’m sure you could be talking more
about Florida passing permitless carry
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or Nashville's student protests
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or the heartless killing of
a nine-year-old’s goat.
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Her goat!
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And worse,
her goat was killed by this man!
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No!
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Damn you!
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First you ski into Gwyneth Paltrow
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and then you kill that girl’s goat.
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Will this skiing optometrist
stop at nothing?
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Am I the only one who watched that trial?
Why’s everybody--
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But perhaps the media’s speculation
and anticipation and wonder
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will all be worth it.
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For on indictment day,
it was Christmas morn for all.
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{\an8}The indictment can now be unsealed
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{\an8}and that is what we’re all waiting for
with bated breath.
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{\an8}I’d love to just show everyone
what we’ve been waiting for.
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{\an8}This is the indictment. So we now have it.
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He’s charged with 34 felony counts of
falsifying business records
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in the first degree.
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Oh, my God, I’m going
to fuck the shit out of that indictment.
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Oh, yeah! Read it to me.
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Can I tell you something? I’m so old
that I do now literally only fuck
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on a rolling chair.
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It’s the only momentum I can build up.
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If your hips don’t move anymore,
you need something to swivel.
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All right, the indictment came down.
It’s 30--
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You know what? I just forgot.
I’m not a lawyer.
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Is any of this normal?
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{\an8}This DA’s office prosecutes
this crime all the time.
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{\an8}This is a mundane business records crime
that is not uncommon
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{\an8}and it’s not uncommon
from this prosecutor.
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Well, that’s awesome.
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That’s just a normal indictment
charging Donald J. Trump
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with 34 felony counts of
falsifying business records.
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Or to translate that into jaded news-ish...
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{\an8}Do you see anything new in there today
that you didn’t know?
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{\an8}No. In fact, I-- It’s kind of expected
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{\an8}that there would be less
than people would want to read.
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{\an8}People felt it was a little underwhelming.
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{\an8}Some found it disappointing.
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{\an8}It depressed some people on the left.
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Were you disappointed?
Were you depressed? Here’s why.
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’Cause you treated this
like the final confrontation with Thanos
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and then it actually just
played out like what it was,
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a boring-as-shit legal procedure
at the very beginning of
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what will be a long, drawn-out,
laborious legal process
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because as I mentioned earlier,
law is boring as shit.
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But please continue being let down
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by the expectations
you motherfuckers created.
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{\an8}This is one of the most historic cases,
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{\an8}arguably the most significant case
right now, in an American court system.
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{\an8}It appears to be built
on a pretty shaky foundation.
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{\an8}It’s a bubble case. It’s not a slam dunk.
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{\an8}Commentators across the spectrum
are saying,
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{\an8}"Boy, there’s really not much in here."
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{\an8}Raises all kinds of questions about
the legal theory behind this case.
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{\an8}An unimpressive document.
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Right, ’cause it’s not the trial.
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You’re thinking of the trial part.
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It’s like if you look at
a recipe for apple brown Betty
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and go, "Butter, apple, cinnamon.
I don’t know, I’m underwhelmed.
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This isn’t delicious at all."
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Yeah, ’cause it’s fucking paper.
It’s the recipe.
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It’s not the game, it’s the roster.
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And by the way, only our media,
those cloistered, short-attention-span,
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own-ass-spelunking--
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No, defenders of democracy
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find a president paying hush money
to a Playboy model and an adult film star,
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and then cooking the books to help himself
win an election, underwhelming and boring.
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By the way, does anybody--
and this is just an off-topic thing--
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did anyone think $130,000
to Stormy Daniels seems a little light?
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Is that-- In this economy, in this mark--
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The only thing I’m thinking is
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you could probably get that much
hush money for banging an alderman.
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Like, it’s--
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I’ve seen people get $750,000
for spilling coffee on themselves.
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Like, that’s just a dollar figure
not of this era.
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That’s some shit, like,
Taft or Coolidge would have pulled.
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Coolidge would have been like,
"How about $130,000 or perhaps a Model T?"
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But I’m sorry, I interrupted you.
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{\an8}The one person we have not heard from
is Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.
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{\an8}- Now, he is still in recovery...
- Yeah.
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{\an8}...after that fall.
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{\an8}But talk about why the silence of
Mitch McConnell,
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{\an8}fall or no fall, speaks volumes.
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I’m gonna go with "fall."
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Let me ask you, coma or no coma,
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why hasn’t Mitch McConnell responded
or at least dilated his pupils?
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Epic fucking media fail.
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Now, there was a media
organization that shined,
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that executed this story exactly the way
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their organization was intended
to execute this story.
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Or at least according
to their texts and emails.
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Fox News, a network founded
on two sacred principles:
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that women should never wear pants
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and Republican presidents should never
face consequences. Literally.
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Roger Ailes invented Fox News
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to make sure that the next Nixon
got away with it, to protect their king.
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So how did they meet the moment?
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Pure, unadulterated, uncut, right in
the veins, fear-laced catastrophizing.
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{\an8}I think this is a dark day,
a dark moment in American history.
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{\an8}This is a war on the party.
It is a war on conservatism and MAGA.
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{\an8}This country will become
a banana republic.
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{\an8}The rule of law
in the United States of America died.
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{\an8}- It’s dead.
- It’s dead.
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{\an8}It’s like Stalin’s purges.
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{\an8}Probably not the best time
to give up your AR-15.
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{\an8}The most threatening thing to our republic
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{\an8}since South Carolina fired shots
at Fort Sumter and started the Civil War.
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I say, I say, what there, boy?
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You Yankees think you can come down here
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and keep me from utilizing fraudulent
accounting to pay my adult film--
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Well, not film, I guess, back then.
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But-- Stage?
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I don’t know what they did
back then for porn.
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Did they have porn in the 18th ce--
All right.
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That’s crazy.
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But I’m not quite ready yet
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to take up arms
against my fellow countrymen over this.
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Do you have anything else?
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{\an8}I’m gonna make a prediction.
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{\an8}By 2025, we are going to be at war.
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{\an8}We are going to have a new dollar,
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{\an8}a currency that probably
is coming from the central bank.
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{\an8}We’ll have a currency collapse,
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{\an8}and we will live
in a virtual police state.
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{\an8}The Bill of Rights is gone.
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{\an8}Please turn to God, repent,
pray for our country, pray for peace.
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{\an8}Put on the full armor of God.
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Full armor of God and pray for p--
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Yes, as it says in the Bible,
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"Blessed are the real estate moguls
for they shall inherit the earth."
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Well, more of the earth
than they inherited when they were born,
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which was already a substantial
part of the earth, but--
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Shit got weird over at Fox.
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{\an8}Now, all of a sudden,
consensual is a felony?
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First of all, why does it seem like
he’s just learning the word consensual?
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But yeah, that’s what they’re doing.
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They’re charging Trump
with a felony for consensual sex.
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That’s exactly what they’re doing.
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But the greatest mind trick,
the Jedi mind trick
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in the reality distortion field of
Fox’s arsenal came next.
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{\an8}He’s become a symbol.
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{\an8}He’s become a symbol
for the disaffected man and woman
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{\an8}and the forgotten person in America.
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{\an8}They see Donald Trump as a symbol,
really, of freedom--
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{\an8}As a symbol for all the freedom-loving
patriots in this country.
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{\an8}They’re really coming after all of us.
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{\an8}He’s the one that’s standing in the way
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{\an8}and he’s been that figure for us
for so many years.
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{\an8}They gotta take him out so they can
get to the rest of us.
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{\an8}But he’s gonna stand firm and strong.
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{\an8}If there was ever somebody
to fight this fight, it’s Donald Trump.
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There it is folks.
Donald Trump, selfless hero.
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A man who cannot go anywhere
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unless his name is in giant letters
on that conveyance
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00:13:03,325 --> 00:13:06,787
is an egoless freedom fighter
for the little man,
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battling desperately until
there is no one in his inner circle left
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to go to jail for him.
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A man whose malignant narcissism
knows no bounds.
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Yeah, that guy is actually on
the ramparts, shielding the regular joes.
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This motherfucker is so selfish,
he didn’t even give his sons a jawline.
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My jawline, not their jawline, mine!
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Trump is not fighting for you.
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You are his human shields
and you always have been.
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And it’s a shame,
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because I’m not sure I would agree
with any of you politically,
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but you deserve better.
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Let’s get to the panel.
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So...
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the media is screwing this up.
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To talk about why and how,
we are joined remotely by Norman Ornstein,
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{\an8}a political scientist at
the American Enterprise Institute.
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{\an8}Did I wake you up, Norman?
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You-- I-- You know, I’m now really upset
234
00:14:19,818 --> 00:14:22,154
because I left
my full armor of God at home
235
00:14:22,154 --> 00:14:23,655
and I’m not gonna have it for my seder.
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- I don’t know what I’m gonna do.
- Why don’t you--
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And a chag sameach to you and the, what,
the one Jew in the audience.
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00:14:29,203 --> 00:14:33,415
Thank you. You should always
have your full armor of God.
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00:14:33,415 --> 00:14:35,918
Norman Ornstein, in all your experience,
240
00:14:35,918 --> 00:14:38,128
you’ve written books
about the rise of Trump,
241
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about the media-industrial complex.
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00:14:40,923 --> 00:14:47,137
I’m angrier at CNN almost more
than any other organization.
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Why is coverage this way?
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{\an8}The one thing that I find
most disturbing about the media,
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00:14:53,393 --> 00:14:56,688
{\an8}is that there’s no
learning curve whatsoever.
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00:14:57,189 --> 00:15:03,028
This is a guy who called them
basically the worst things imaginable.
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That the first people to go,
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if we ever get to that Trumpian autocracy,
are gonna be the press.
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And they play into his hands
over and over again.
250
00:15:12,913 --> 00:15:17,209
And, you know, the way they treated this,
which you handled absolutely brilliantly,
251
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making this huge deal out of it and then
saying there’s a nothing burger there,
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00:15:21,380 --> 00:15:23,590
is just disgraceful.
253
00:15:24,258 --> 00:15:26,093
- And it’s not benign.
- Maybe they are the enemy of the people.
254
00:15:26,093 --> 00:15:27,636
It’s not benign.
255
00:15:27,636 --> 00:15:30,848
Fox has weaponized misinformation,
256
00:15:30,848 --> 00:15:34,059
the internet has weaponized misinformation.
257
00:15:34,059 --> 00:15:38,814
And if you don’t have
a tenacious counterforce
258
00:15:38,814 --> 00:15:42,401
battling that position at every turn,
259
00:15:43,026 --> 00:15:46,530
then misinformation
that’s been weaponized wins the day.
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{\an8}Absolutely so, and of course,
what’s also happened is
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00:15:50,450 --> 00:15:54,371
{\an8}they bring on people who lie
and who exaggerate
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00:15:54,371 --> 00:15:56,957
{\an8}and there is no pushback whatsoever.
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00:15:56,957 --> 00:16:01,545
They are normalizing the abnormal,
they’re hyping what shouldn’t be hyped
264
00:16:01,545 --> 00:16:05,132
and they’re giving a pass
to things that shouldn’t get a pass.
265
00:16:05,132 --> 00:16:08,177
And it happens over and over
and over again.
266
00:16:08,177 --> 00:16:11,805
It’s Friday the 13th part 27 right now.
267
00:16:12,598 --> 00:16:15,058
Is that coming out, Norman?
Because that sounds interesting.
268
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It’ll be on CNN.
269
00:16:19,188 --> 00:16:22,858
I really do wonder sometimes,
270
00:16:23,442 --> 00:16:26,195
in a healthy country,
in a healthy democracy,
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00:16:26,195 --> 00:16:31,533
you would think that the efforts that
Donald Trump and his inner circle went
272
00:16:31,533 --> 00:16:35,162
to circumvent a democratic election
273
00:16:35,162 --> 00:16:39,374
would be disqualifying
in a myriad of ways.
274
00:16:39,374 --> 00:16:44,379
Why do you think we are unable
to hold presidents to account?
275
00:16:44,379 --> 00:16:46,673
One of the things
that’s disturbing about this,
276
00:16:46,673 --> 00:16:49,009
and we saw this throughout
Trump’s presidency,
277
00:16:49,968 --> 00:16:54,181
scandal after scandal after scandal,
and the press couldn’t handle it.
278
00:16:54,181 --> 00:16:56,642
{\an8}Everything washed over itself.
279
00:16:56,642 --> 00:17:00,521
{\an8}And we’re gonna see this now with
the different indictments that go forward.
280
00:17:00,521 --> 00:17:04,273
But they have to have a frame
where each president, in that sense,
281
00:17:04,273 --> 00:17:05,901
is viewed in the same way.
282
00:17:05,901 --> 00:17:09,238
So the scandal with Barack Obama
was he wore a tan suit.
283
00:17:09,820 --> 00:17:12,950
- I remember that, I remember that suit.
- And Donald Trump basically taking--
284
00:17:12,950 --> 00:17:15,743
- Yeah, it was a nice suit.
- Yeah.
285
00:17:15,743 --> 00:17:18,872
And what’s so disturbing about this
286
00:17:18,872 --> 00:17:23,752
is that you don’t see any sense of
self-reflection, any willingness to change
287
00:17:23,752 --> 00:17:26,839
and it’s leading us in a very bad place.
288
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,300
It does expose the river of corruption
289
00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:34,596
at the heart of the American
so-called democratic capitalist system.
290
00:17:34,596 --> 00:17:38,433
That this idea of paying for favor,
291
00:17:38,433 --> 00:17:42,312
this moat that surrounds
the nation’s capital
292
00:17:42,312 --> 00:17:45,774
that’s filled with money
that nobody can trace
293
00:17:45,774 --> 00:17:48,944
and lobbyists that are not
accountable to anybody.
294
00:17:48,944 --> 00:17:50,946
We’re Tammany Hall.
295
00:17:50,946 --> 00:17:56,618
And this entire country is built right now
on that pay-to-play premise.
296
00:17:56,618 --> 00:18:01,623
Donald Trump has spent 60 years
paying off people,
297
00:18:01,623 --> 00:18:06,128
using the system for his own good
to avoid accountability.
298
00:18:06,879 --> 00:18:08,881
And whatever the press does,
299
00:18:08,881 --> 00:18:13,927
let’s hope the legal system finally brings
some measure of accountability.
300
00:18:13,927 --> 00:18:18,348
And I also wanna say, Jon,
that the stuff that was said about,
301
00:18:18,348 --> 00:18:20,434
"Well, there’s nothing new here,"
302
00:18:20,434 --> 00:18:23,061
we actually know some new facts here.
303
00:18:23,061 --> 00:18:29,693
Including the fact that
Trump wanted to hold Stormy Daniels--
304
00:18:30,527 --> 00:18:32,988
To stay quiet through
the election campaign
305
00:18:32,988 --> 00:18:34,323
and then not pay her.
306
00:18:34,823 --> 00:18:39,953
So he could bilk her even as he tried
to use this to steal the election.
307
00:18:40,954 --> 00:18:42,706
We’re gonna find out a lot more
308
00:18:42,706 --> 00:18:46,418
and it involves a lot more
than just Donald Trump.
309
00:18:46,418 --> 00:18:52,049
There was a massive attempt to use
this process days before the election,
310
00:18:52,049 --> 00:18:57,387
after the tapes had come out
from Access Hollywood,
311
00:18:57,387 --> 00:18:59,598
to avoid accountability in an election.
312
00:18:59,598 --> 00:19:05,270
And while this is not as serious
as promoting a violent insurrection...
313
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:06,563
Correct.
314
00:19:06,563 --> 00:19:10,567
...as trying to convince
the Secretary of State in Georgia
315
00:19:10,567 --> 00:19:16,823
and the governor to give him back Georgia
by stealing 10,700-plus votes,
316
00:19:17,741 --> 00:19:20,369
the fact is that
this probably had more to do
317
00:19:20,369 --> 00:19:23,789
with him winning
the 2016 election illegitimately...
318
00:19:23,789 --> 00:19:25,374
- Right.
- ...than those other things.
319
00:19:25,999 --> 00:19:29,419
Norman, it’s all information
that really grabs me by my pussy.
320
00:19:29,419 --> 00:19:30,712
It really does.
321
00:19:31,713 --> 00:19:33,799
Norman Ornstein,
thank you so much for joining us today.
322
00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:35,592
Well, you’re a celebrity, so you should.
323
00:19:35,592 --> 00:19:37,386
- Excellent work!
- Thank you.
324
00:19:37,386 --> 00:19:38,470
So...
325
00:19:41,723 --> 00:19:44,726
A powerful person is being
put through a legal process that is,
326
00:19:44,726 --> 00:19:47,771
quite frankly, ordinary for many people.
327
00:19:48,397 --> 00:19:49,815
Or to put that another way...
328
00:19:49,815 --> 00:19:54,319
{\an8}I never thought anything like this
could happen in America.
329
00:19:54,319 --> 00:19:55,779
{\an8}I never thought it could happen.
330
00:19:55,779 --> 00:19:59,199
If I had, I probably wouldn’t have
committed all those crimes
331
00:20:00,158 --> 00:20:01,159
for all those years.
332
00:20:01,159 --> 00:20:02,870
But if there’s one positive,
333
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:07,749
it’s that those on the right
are now finally woke to something
334
00:20:07,749 --> 00:20:10,919
that the powerless
have experienced for centuries.
335
00:20:10,919 --> 00:20:12,588
{\an8}There’s a two-tiered system of justice.
336
00:20:12,588 --> 00:20:14,339
{\an8}There is no longer in this country--
337
00:20:14,339 --> 00:20:18,260
{\an8}And I say this with a lot of sadness,
equal justice under the law
338
00:20:18,260 --> 00:20:20,512
{\an8}or equal application of our laws.
339
00:20:20,512 --> 00:20:23,390
{\an8}Sadly, we do have
a two-tiered system of justice.
340
00:20:23,390 --> 00:20:25,851
{\an8}What are we going to do
about these two standards of justice?
341
00:20:25,851 --> 00:20:27,936
Archie, Archie?
342
00:20:29,479 --> 00:20:33,775
There’s a two-tiered
system of justice, Archie.
343
00:20:35,068 --> 00:20:37,196
Now Meathead is here.
344
00:20:39,072 --> 00:20:41,450
But there is. But here’s the thing--
345
00:20:42,117 --> 00:20:44,870
You know Trump is in the good tier, right?
346
00:20:45,829 --> 00:20:47,414
He’s in this tier.
347
00:20:47,414 --> 00:20:49,833
{\an8}Former President Trump successful today
348
00:20:49,833 --> 00:20:53,170
{\an8}in a request to delay the release of
White House documents.
349
00:20:53,170 --> 00:20:56,798
{\an8}Trump’s lawyers filed to have her case
moved from state to federal court...
350
00:20:56,798 --> 00:20:59,009
{\an8}...refusing to cooperate
with the impeachment inquiry.
351
00:20:59,009 --> 00:21:00,511
{\an8}He is challenging that subpoena.
352
00:21:00,511 --> 00:21:03,680
{\an8}Block the FBI from looking
at the seized materials
353
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,849
{\an8}until a special master can be appointed.
354
00:21:05,849 --> 00:21:06,934
Oh, yeah, Your Honor,
355
00:21:06,934 --> 00:21:09,269
I prefer you not look
at the liquor store security footage
356
00:21:09,269 --> 00:21:11,355
until a special master that don’t--
357
00:21:11,355 --> 00:21:12,898
Fuck it! Easy on the wrists.
358
00:21:15,484 --> 00:21:17,736
To be fair,
you are well within your rights
359
00:21:17,736 --> 00:21:20,739
to vigorously defend yourself
against legal charges.
360
00:21:20,739 --> 00:21:23,075
And that’s what this process
is going to entail.
361
00:21:23,742 --> 00:21:28,497
But in the not-good tier,
you don’t have the resources to do that.
362
00:21:28,997 --> 00:21:31,250
And chances are
you don’t have this either.
363
00:21:31,250 --> 00:21:35,379
{\an8}DonaldJTrump.com. Go tonight.
364
00:21:35,379 --> 00:21:38,340
{\an8}Give the president some money
to fight this bullshit.
365
00:21:41,218 --> 00:21:44,972
You are not in the bad tier
of our justice system
366
00:21:45,472 --> 00:21:49,893
if a US senator
is fronting your GoFundMe page.
367
00:21:51,353 --> 00:21:54,231
But as those in the bad tier know,
when in doubt,
368
00:21:54,231 --> 00:21:58,402
launch veiled threats
on the prosecutors’ and judges’ families.
369
00:21:58,402 --> 00:22:01,738
{\an8}This lunatic special prosecutor
named Jack Smith,
370
00:22:01,738 --> 00:22:03,532
{\an8}I wonder what it was prior to a change.
371
00:22:03,532 --> 00:22:08,495
{\an8}I have a Trump-hating judge
with a Trump-hating wife and family.
372
00:22:09,079 --> 00:22:11,832
{\an8}Whose daughter worked for Kamala Harris
373
00:22:12,416 --> 00:22:15,502
{\an8}and now receives money
from the Biden-Harris campaign.
374
00:22:15,502 --> 00:22:16,587
Look, I’m not a lawyer
375
00:22:16,587 --> 00:22:19,548
but I’m pretty sure most people
can’t get away with doing that.
376
00:22:19,548 --> 00:22:21,216
You know what else they can’t do?
377
00:22:21,216 --> 00:22:23,802
Just claim that by their nature of being,
378
00:22:23,802 --> 00:22:27,931
they are universally,
cosmically unable to crime.
379
00:22:27,931 --> 00:22:31,143
{\an8}Donald Trump is actually claiming
absolute immunity
380
00:22:31,143 --> 00:22:32,686
{\an8}from criminal investigation.
381
00:22:32,686 --> 00:22:36,190
How much crime do you have to do...
382
00:22:38,567 --> 00:22:41,862
to build up absolute immunity?
383
00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:46,074
Is that immunity coming
from committing crimes
384
00:22:46,074 --> 00:22:48,243
or did you get the crime jab?
385
00:22:48,243 --> 00:22:49,745
Did you get the jab?
386
00:22:49,745 --> 00:22:53,290
The MRNA-Bill-Gates-crime jab?
387
00:22:54,166 --> 00:22:56,585
He’s tracking your crime.
388
00:22:58,253 --> 00:22:59,880
Trump has used privilege and wealth
389
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,800
to protect himself
from legal accountability at every turn.
390
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:09,306
He has lived his entire adult life
in the space twixt illegal and unethical.
391
00:23:09,848 --> 00:23:14,061
He’s in the tier where you get
the platinum arraignment package.
392
00:23:14,061 --> 00:23:16,146
No cuffs. No mug shot.
393
00:23:16,146 --> 00:23:18,065
All-you-can-eat fingerprint ink.
394
00:23:18,065 --> 00:23:21,485
You think regular people
get to surround themselves
395
00:23:21,485 --> 00:23:26,073
with a meat shield of henchmen
to go to prison in their place?
396
00:23:26,615 --> 00:23:29,535
But if you really wanna know
what tier Donald Trump is in,
397
00:23:29,535 --> 00:23:33,872
let’s look at an actual fraud
we know he was guilty of.
398
00:23:34,414 --> 00:23:38,085
He used his own charitable foundation
like a piggy bank.
399
00:23:38,085 --> 00:23:41,547
Or as it’s sometimes known: embezzlement.
400
00:23:41,547 --> 00:23:43,966
{\an8}"A shocking pattern of illegality,
401
00:23:43,966 --> 00:23:48,136
{\an8}including unlawful coordination
with the Trump presidential campaign,
402
00:23:48,136 --> 00:23:51,473
{\an8}repeated and willful self-dealing
and much more."
403
00:23:51,473 --> 00:23:56,645
He stole from his own
charitable foundation.
404
00:23:56,645 --> 00:23:58,564
How much more could--
405
00:23:58,564 --> 00:24:01,358
What, did he also nut punch a priest?
Like...
406
00:24:04,027 --> 00:24:07,155
How are non-Trumps punished
for something like that?
407
00:24:07,155 --> 00:24:09,408
Well, some get two years in jail.
408
00:24:09,408 --> 00:24:11,785
Some get five years in jail.
409
00:24:11,785 --> 00:24:15,831
Some get ten years in jail
410
00:24:15,831 --> 00:24:19,585
for stealing from charitable donations.
411
00:24:19,585 --> 00:24:25,299
But what happened to
this selfless shield of the working man?
412
00:24:26,633 --> 00:24:29,344
Well, he agreed to shut down
his charity piggy bank
413
00:24:29,344 --> 00:24:32,639
and paid a $2 million settlement.
414
00:24:32,639 --> 00:24:37,686
Or on your Trump conversion chart,
15-16 porn star hushings.
415
00:24:39,062 --> 00:24:41,190
He wasn’t even charged with a crime.
416
00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:42,983
So when people say this...
417
00:24:42,983 --> 00:24:45,736
{\an8}It’s selective prosecution and it’s wrong.
418
00:24:45,736 --> 00:24:48,071
{\an8}Selective prosecution on steroids.
419
00:24:48,071 --> 00:24:49,781
{\an8}It does feel like a selective prosecution.
420
00:24:49,781 --> 00:24:52,826
{\an8}If his name were John Smith,
421
00:24:52,826 --> 00:24:55,120
{\an8}no, Bragg would not be bringing this case.
422
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,498
If his name was John Smith,
he’d be in jail already.
423
00:24:59,041 --> 00:25:01,126
He-- Yes.
424
00:25:03,462 --> 00:25:04,880
It’s all selective prosecution.
425
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,382
And when you’re in the good tier,
you can do whatever you want
426
00:25:07,382 --> 00:25:08,675
and you’re probably gonna be fine.
427
00:25:08,675 --> 00:25:11,803
In fact, you might
even be president twice.
428
00:25:12,387 --> 00:25:14,723
Anyway, we got ourselves--
429
00:25:16,892 --> 00:25:18,769
We do have a two-tiered system of justice.
430
00:25:18,769 --> 00:25:21,396
And we’re gonna talk to someone who’s
actually been a victim of this system,
431
00:25:21,396 --> 00:25:23,106
and someone who can verify what’s broken.
432
00:25:23,106 --> 00:25:27,236
{\an8}Please welcome Melissa Murray,
a legal scholar and law professor at NYU
433
00:25:27,236 --> 00:25:29,154
{\an8}and an MSNBC/NBC News contributor.
434
00:25:29,154 --> 00:25:32,950
{\an8}And Jay Jordan,
CEO of Alliance for Safety and Justice
435
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:36,370
{\an8}and National Director
of the TimeDone campaign,
436
00:25:36,370 --> 00:25:38,372
{\an8}which organizes people
with past conviction records
437
00:25:38,372 --> 00:25:41,458
{\an8}to eliminate the barriers
blocking them from success.
438
00:25:41,458 --> 00:25:43,168
Guys, welcome to the program.
439
00:25:44,795 --> 00:25:46,296
Jay, I’m gonna talk to you first.
440
00:25:50,384 --> 00:25:52,135
- You’ve been in the system.
- Yeah.
441
00:25:52,135 --> 00:25:53,554
You have spent time in jail.
442
00:25:53,554 --> 00:25:57,474
When you were arraigned,
did you pick the Zoom option?
443
00:25:57,474 --> 00:26:02,187
And did you go with the optional-mug-shot,
no-handcuffs approach,
444
00:26:02,187 --> 00:26:05,691
or did you say,
"I want the traditional experience"?
445
00:26:08,819 --> 00:26:11,446
- You know, I laugh but it’s quite serious...
- Yes.
446
00:26:11,446 --> 00:26:13,991
...what happens
when people get arrested in this country.
447
00:26:13,991 --> 00:26:17,077
Especially if you are poor.
448
00:26:17,077 --> 00:26:20,455
If you don’t have the means
to turn yourself in.
449
00:26:21,373 --> 00:26:25,127
And that’s the vast majority of people
that get arrested in this country.
450
00:26:25,127 --> 00:26:26,628
- Three out of four people...
- Yeah.
451
00:26:26,628 --> 00:26:29,006
...that are currently incarcerated
452
00:26:29,006 --> 00:26:32,593
live right by or below
the supplemental poverty line.
453
00:26:32,593 --> 00:26:34,219
So we’re literally talking
about poor folks
454
00:26:34,219 --> 00:26:35,637
that are getting swept up in the system.
455
00:26:35,637 --> 00:26:37,764
When I got arrested, they came with dogs.
456
00:26:37,764 --> 00:26:40,100
I got tased right in front
of my two-year-old nephew.
457
00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:42,895
Like, people are getting brutalized
when they get arrested.
458
00:26:42,895 --> 00:26:47,941
I remember my first time getting arrested
was stealing a bottle of Hennessy, right?
459
00:26:47,941 --> 00:26:50,903
I was 15 years old. 15 years old. Fifteen.
460
00:26:50,903 --> 00:26:52,237
We’re in a car, we’re drinking.
461
00:26:52,237 --> 00:26:55,157
Police pull behind us,
we get yanked out of the car.
462
00:26:55,157 --> 00:26:58,827
And there’s a phrase that everybody knows
who’ve been brutalized by the police.
463
00:26:58,827 --> 00:27:00,412
Everybody knows this phrase.
464
00:27:00,412 --> 00:27:02,414
- It’s "quit resisting."
- Right.
465
00:27:02,414 --> 00:27:04,499
And when they say that,
they know that is a green light
466
00:27:04,499 --> 00:27:05,667
- to brutalize you.
- Right.
467
00:27:05,667 --> 00:27:07,461
That was my first instance
of getting arrested.
468
00:27:07,461 --> 00:27:10,797
Fifteen years old, for a bottle of
Hennessy, getting beat up by the cops.
469
00:27:10,797 --> 00:27:11,882
So, you know, no--
470
00:27:11,882 --> 00:27:13,717
When you see that--
When you watch somebody
471
00:27:13,717 --> 00:27:15,219
and they say, like, "Well, you know,
472
00:27:15,219 --> 00:27:18,555
if you had just taken money
from your charitable foundation
473
00:27:18,555 --> 00:27:20,432
and bought the Hennessy,
474
00:27:20,432 --> 00:27:23,227
and pretended that it was an expense
for there,
475
00:27:23,227 --> 00:27:24,978
everything would be fucking fine."
476
00:27:24,978 --> 00:27:27,105
Like, that must be infuriating.
477
00:27:27,105 --> 00:27:30,359
I mean, how the great
Bryan Stevenson puts it,
478
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,444
"In this country,
if you are wealthy and guilty,
479
00:27:32,444 --> 00:27:34,404
you’re treated better
than if you’re poor and innocent."
480
00:27:34,404 --> 00:27:36,782
{\an8}We do have two different
systems of justice.
481
00:27:36,782 --> 00:27:39,201
One for those who are poor
and those with resources.
482
00:27:39,201 --> 00:27:41,703
And it’s very different.
We’re seeing that play out right now.
483
00:27:41,703 --> 00:27:45,749
I think a big part of the sort of playing
down of these charges that we’ve seen
484
00:27:45,749 --> 00:27:47,543
is what the media has done.
485
00:27:47,543 --> 00:27:50,379
I mean, I think they were expecting
something explosive. And not really--
486
00:27:50,379 --> 00:27:53,215
- But they created that expectation.
- For sure, for sure.
487
00:27:53,215 --> 00:27:57,010
I mean, they were hoping for a perp walk
and maybe an orange jumpsuit.
488
00:27:57,010 --> 00:27:58,762
But this is a process, right?
489
00:27:58,762 --> 00:27:59,847
There’s an arraignment,
490
00:27:59,847 --> 00:28:01,765
and this was just the first act
491
00:28:01,765 --> 00:28:04,643
of what will be a very long
and drawn-out process.
492
00:28:04,643 --> 00:28:08,897
But to their point though,
this is unprecedented to some degree
493
00:28:08,897 --> 00:28:10,816
because of who Donald Trump is.
494
00:28:10,816 --> 00:28:12,484
He is a former president.
495
00:28:12,484 --> 00:28:14,486
And, you know, I’m a law professor.
496
00:28:14,486 --> 00:28:17,906
- We don’t lead very exciting lives, but--
- Stop it.
497
00:28:17,906 --> 00:28:20,409
I mean, this is the most fun
I’ve had in a while.
498
00:28:20,409 --> 00:28:21,493
What?
499
00:28:22,244 --> 00:28:23,871
We have a long haul to go.
500
00:28:23,871 --> 00:28:26,331
We don’t know
what evidence Alvin Bragg has.
501
00:28:26,331 --> 00:28:28,876
We don’t know
whether these charges are thin
502
00:28:28,876 --> 00:28:30,502
because we don’t know
what’s underlying them.
503
00:28:30,502 --> 00:28:33,088
And so to say,
"It’s a weak case," it’s this or that,
504
00:28:33,088 --> 00:28:34,756
we don’t know that. They don’t know that.
505
00:28:34,756 --> 00:28:37,301
None of those people
have been to law school, and I know that.
506
00:28:38,802 --> 00:28:40,220
Well, that must be frustrating too.
507
00:28:42,181 --> 00:28:46,018
{\an8}So, you know, after this,
the process is, you know,
508
00:28:46,018 --> 00:28:47,853
{\an8}"We’ll see what the evidence is," right?
509
00:28:48,812 --> 00:28:51,231
The problem with everybody else
in the system,
510
00:28:51,231 --> 00:28:54,484
which is 97% of people take a plea deal--
511
00:28:54,484 --> 00:28:58,197
Most people who take a plea deal
never see the evidence against them.
512
00:28:58,197 --> 00:28:59,656
Never see the evidence against them.
513
00:28:59,656 --> 00:29:00,574
- Is that--
- Ever.
514
00:29:00,574 --> 00:29:02,034
- That’s true?
- That is true.
515
00:29:02,034 --> 00:29:04,494
They never see the evidence,
so they’re taking plea deals.
516
00:29:04,494 --> 00:29:06,246
I’m gonna tell you why, right?
517
00:29:06,246 --> 00:29:07,789
Like, so when you are arrested,
518
00:29:07,789 --> 00:29:12,211
there are two main factors
in our current system
519
00:29:12,211 --> 00:29:16,924
that dictates the severity of your stay
and the length of your stay.
520
00:29:16,924 --> 00:29:20,385
And it is if you can make bail
and if you can buy yourself an attorney.
521
00:29:20,385 --> 00:29:22,262
If you can’t do those two things,
522
00:29:22,262 --> 00:29:25,057
you’re getting a public defender
who are overworked and underpaid...
523
00:29:25,057 --> 00:29:27,142
- Right. Toughest job of all.
- ...have dozens of people on their caseload.
524
00:29:27,142 --> 00:29:28,644
- Toughest job in law.
- Toughest job on the beat.
525
00:29:28,644 --> 00:29:31,939
So you take the deal, you don’t see
the evidence-- and get this--
526
00:29:32,564 --> 00:29:35,651
They don’t have to tell you about
the collateral consequences you face
527
00:29:35,651 --> 00:29:37,194
after you take the deal.
528
00:29:37,194 --> 00:29:39,863
So the 97% of people
that are taking these deals
529
00:29:39,863 --> 00:29:43,116
don’t even know that they’re gonna face
40,000 legal restrictions
530
00:29:43,116 --> 00:29:44,660
after they serve their time.
531
00:29:44,660 --> 00:29:47,329
How is that ok-- How is that legal?
532
00:29:47,329 --> 00:29:49,706
{\an8}Well, so, first of all,
the entire legal system--
533
00:29:49,706 --> 00:29:52,376
{\an8}I don’t mean to look at you like,
"You created this system!"
534
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,086
Melissa?
535
00:29:54,086 --> 00:29:55,379
I just work here.
536
00:29:55,921 --> 00:29:57,005
It really is.
537
00:29:57,005 --> 00:30:00,300
As a general matter on both
the civil side and the criminal side,
538
00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:02,553
most cases end with a settlement,
539
00:30:02,553 --> 00:30:05,848
whether that is on the civil side
an actual settlement between the parties.
540
00:30:05,848 --> 00:30:08,350
And we learned a lot about
that during the #MeToo era
541
00:30:08,350 --> 00:30:11,144
with nondisclosure agreements
and settlement of certain cases.
542
00:30:11,144 --> 00:30:13,522
But on the criminal side,
the settlement is the plea deal.
543
00:30:13,522 --> 00:30:16,400
And if you are poor,
if you don’t have money for bail,
544
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,235
if you are worried about your job,
545
00:30:18,235 --> 00:30:21,405
and they’re offering you a misdemeanor--
that may have collateral consequences...
546
00:30:21,405 --> 00:30:23,115
- Yeah.
- ...that you don’t know about.
547
00:30:23,115 --> 00:30:25,033
But a misdemeanor as opposed to jail time,
548
00:30:25,033 --> 00:30:28,245
you might just take it
and get railroaded into this and th--
549
00:30:28,245 --> 00:30:29,621
You have no recourse.
550
00:30:29,621 --> 00:30:31,707
- I mean, that’s part of it.
- No, you don’t.
551
00:30:31,707 --> 00:30:33,792
And is that the shock that
we’re seeing in this system?
552
00:30:33,792 --> 00:30:36,587
This idea that, "Oh, my God,
he’s gonna have to face consequences."
553
00:30:36,587 --> 00:30:39,047
For sure. I mean, again, this is a man
554
00:30:39,047 --> 00:30:43,135
who is no stranger to
legal liability, both civil--
555
00:30:43,135 --> 00:30:44,887
{\an8}He hasn’t had
criminal liability against him.
556
00:30:44,887 --> 00:30:47,890
{\an8}Now it looks like not only may he have
criminal exposure in this case,
557
00:30:47,890 --> 00:30:51,059
{\an8}but there may also be other cases
both at the state level in Georgia
558
00:30:51,059 --> 00:30:54,229
- and at the federal level that--
- But he only hasn’t had criminal exposure
559
00:30:54,229 --> 00:30:56,148
- because of his resources.
- No-- Undoubtedly.
560
00:30:56,148 --> 00:30:58,150
A normal person who committed those things
561
00:30:58,150 --> 00:30:59,943
- would have criminal exposure.
- Undoubt--
562
00:30:59,943 --> 00:31:03,530
And even now, his treatment
in the legal system
563
00:31:04,114 --> 00:31:07,451
reflects the incredible privileges
that he does have.
564
00:31:07,451 --> 00:31:11,622
Jay, there’s gotta be a ray of lightness,
and you know,
565
00:31:11,622 --> 00:31:13,332
in getting to know you a little bit here--
566
00:31:13,332 --> 00:31:19,379
I am shocked by what you went through
and your resilience to that.
567
00:31:19,379 --> 00:31:21,965
Is there a light here
that we can learn from?
568
00:31:21,965 --> 00:31:24,843
- Is there something to take from this?
- Two points.
569
00:31:24,843 --> 00:31:26,845
So I wanna make a point
about the system itself
570
00:31:26,845 --> 00:31:28,388
{\an8}and what we’re up against,
571
00:31:28,388 --> 00:31:30,057
{\an8}and then what we can actually do, right?
572
00:31:30,057 --> 00:31:31,934
{\an8}Or give people a green light
to do something.
573
00:31:31,934 --> 00:31:36,021
So this judicial bureaucracy, right?
574
00:31:36,021 --> 00:31:37,523
Just to give everybody
575
00:31:37,523 --> 00:31:42,069
a sense of what we have been able to build
or allow being built under our watch.
576
00:31:42,069 --> 00:31:47,866
Since 1985-- my entire life-- we’ve spent
$11 trillion building this system.
577
00:31:47,866 --> 00:31:52,329
Eleven trillion dollars. That’s four times
what we spent in Syria and Iraq.
578
00:31:52,329 --> 00:31:54,748
We are talking about
a nation-building strategy
579
00:31:54,748 --> 00:31:57,668
that has forced America
to become the largest jailor, point one.
580
00:31:57,668 --> 00:31:59,503
Point two, right,
581
00:31:59,503 --> 00:32:03,966
that it is the second-largest
employer in the world.
582
00:32:03,966 --> 00:32:05,634
- Department of Defense, first.
- What?
583
00:32:05,634 --> 00:32:09,721
The American judicial bureaucracy, second,
Walmart, third, right?
584
00:32:09,721 --> 00:32:10,889
- That’s how big it is.
- What?
585
00:32:10,889 --> 00:32:15,561
Yes, that’s how big it is.
Employs 2.5 million people.
586
00:32:15,561 --> 00:32:17,771
Right? A lot of people are tied to this.
587
00:32:17,771 --> 00:32:22,985
Three, they spend 300 million--
$300 billion every single year.
588
00:32:22,985 --> 00:32:25,737
Three hundred billion dollars
every single year.
589
00:32:25,737 --> 00:32:28,448
And they have
these associations and lobbyists.
590
00:32:28,448 --> 00:32:30,367
I’ve been against these
lobbyists in the state houses.
591
00:32:30,367 --> 00:32:33,370
They show up in their Armani suits
smelling like a Macy’s counter,
592
00:32:33,370 --> 00:32:35,038
and they’re scary. Right?
593
00:32:35,038 --> 00:32:37,374
So it’s a protective shield
594
00:32:37,374 --> 00:32:40,127
that we’re talking about,
and it focuses on poor people.
595
00:32:40,127 --> 00:32:43,046
Again, three out of four people
that get sucked up in the system
596
00:32:43,046 --> 00:32:45,257
are living below
the supplemental poverty line.
597
00:32:45,257 --> 00:32:49,052
Like, poor people to the justice system
is like Big Macs to McDonald’s.
598
00:32:49,052 --> 00:32:51,388
It is a system, and it works,
599
00:32:51,388 --> 00:32:55,642
and we don’t have
a effective justice system.
600
00:32:55,642 --> 00:32:57,978
We trade justice for judicial efficiency.
601
00:32:57,978 --> 00:33:00,731
- But let me tell you this--
- I’m hoping there’s a "but" in here, Jay.
602
00:33:00,731 --> 00:33:02,316
- I can tell you here--
- Because right now,
603
00:33:02,316 --> 00:33:04,109
I’m just feeling like, "Oh, God."
604
00:33:04,109 --> 00:33:08,280
I am hopeful for all the people out there
605
00:33:08,822 --> 00:33:10,407
that are like,
"We can do something about it."
606
00:33:10,407 --> 00:33:12,284
So we always get turned
around when we say,
607
00:33:12,284 --> 00:33:13,869
"Well, I want to abolish the system
608
00:33:13,869 --> 00:33:16,413
or reform the system
or transform the system,"
609
00:33:16,413 --> 00:33:19,541
and you’re like, "You’re too woke,"
or "That’s too progressive," right?
610
00:33:19,541 --> 00:33:22,628
Well, let me tell you something,
in the Declaration of Independence--
611
00:33:23,378 --> 00:33:25,923
In the Declaration of Independence
of this country,
612
00:33:25,923 --> 00:33:27,257
we stop reading when it says,
613
00:33:27,257 --> 00:33:28,926
"Life, liberty
and the pursuit of happiness."
614
00:33:28,926 --> 00:33:32,137
But what say--
What they say after that gives me hope.
615
00:33:32,137 --> 00:33:36,141
It says that any moment in time
that government becomes destructive to us
616
00:33:36,141 --> 00:33:39,728
means it is the right of
the people to abolish or alter it
617
00:33:39,728 --> 00:33:42,481
and create a new system of government.
618
00:33:42,481 --> 00:33:45,776
So if you’re talking about
abolition or reform,
619
00:33:45,776 --> 00:33:47,861
it is not that you’re too woke,
it’s you’re patriotic.
620
00:33:47,861 --> 00:33:49,655
So please take up, you know,
621
00:33:49,655 --> 00:33:51,990
- a legal appeal--
- Yeah! Come on!
622
00:33:53,242 --> 00:33:54,159
Become a lobbyist,
623
00:33:54,159 --> 00:33:55,661
- become a law professor--
- Jay Jordan!
624
00:33:55,661 --> 00:33:57,579
Become an organizer because we need--
625
00:33:57,579 --> 00:33:59,790
That’s the only way
we’re gonna get through this.
626
00:34:00,707 --> 00:34:02,167
I needed that!
627
00:34:03,168 --> 00:34:05,295
That was like a Jamba Juice. Yes!
628
00:34:07,339 --> 00:34:11,467
Thank you, both for being here
and for giving us
629
00:34:11,467 --> 00:34:15,429
your wisdom, your analysis
and most importantly, your perspective.
630
00:34:16,056 --> 00:34:17,056
Thank you very much.
631
00:34:17,056 --> 00:34:19,184
Jay Jordan. Melissa Murray.
632
00:34:20,101 --> 00:34:21,103
Thank you both.
633
00:34:21,103 --> 00:34:24,063
All right, everybody, that is our show.
634
00:34:25,023 --> 00:34:27,317
Get your frequent viewer cards
punched before you leave.
635
00:34:27,317 --> 00:34:31,237
{\an8}If you want more content there,
head to our website.
636
00:34:31,237 --> 00:34:33,949
{\an8}Elon just turned it into a Doge website.
637
00:34:35,033 --> 00:34:37,202
{\an8}You’ll love it. I also got a podcast there
638
00:34:37,202 --> 00:34:39,580
{\an8}that I record from the lighthouse
that I call my home.
639
00:34:39,580 --> 00:34:42,916
{\an8}All right, we’re ending tonight
with one final "for fuck’s sake."
640
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:45,543
{\an8}- I’m gonna interrupt you for one second--
- I think--
641
00:34:45,543 --> 00:34:49,172
{\an8}I’m gonna interrupt you because this is
one of the photographs that we just got.
642
00:34:49,172 --> 00:34:53,177
{\an8}The photograph is stark,
and historic as we look at it.
643
00:34:53,177 --> 00:34:55,846
{\an8}Donald Trump with a--
644
00:34:55,846 --> 00:34:57,764
{\an8}I don’t know how to characterize his face,
645
00:34:57,764 --> 00:35:00,392
{\an8}but certainly a serious expression
on his face.
646
00:35:01,977 --> 00:35:04,229
{\an8}Alyssa Farah Griffin, is she with us?
647
00:35:04,229 --> 00:35:08,775
{\an8}If she is, I’d love her to weigh in
on what she sees in this picture.
648
00:35:09,443 --> 00:35:12,654
{\an8}Jake. I mean,
that’s a man who looks like a defendant.