1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,840 This programme contains racist language 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:05,520 and content some may find offensive. 3 00:00:05,520 --> 00:00:09,080 Have you any idea what caused the fire yet? No, we have no idea, we're keeping very much an open mind. 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,480 But it has been suggested it may have been started deliberately. Well, that's a possibility. 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,160 The New Cross fire was started. It was not an accident. 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,520 This whole thing was about youngsters being murdered. 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,920 I just remember kids burnt till they were pink 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,120 and a smell of burning flesh. 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,080 That will go to my grave. 10 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,760 The New Cross fire, it just shocked everybody. 11 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,960 We could all relate, because that could have been any one of us. 12 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,040 You know, we were in parties all the time, so the horror, 13 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,080 you can imagine the horror, it's really frightening. 14 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,240 When you went outside the house, 15 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,120 your mind had to kind of be a young person, in a party, 16 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,640 and being burnt alive, in a house, and that, of course, 17 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,840 just fuels more anger and more rage. 18 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,600 Why haven't Parliament said anything?! 19 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,520 Children have been burnt. 20 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,920 Not West Indians, black British! 21 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:07,880 That is what I want said! 22 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,960 They're burning our children! 23 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,280 You see fire burning in the eyes. 24 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,080 You smell badness from the breath. 25 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:20,840 You feel violence, violence bursting out on me. Look out. 26 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:35,280 Black people, united, we'll never be defeated! 27 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:42,280 My name is Christopher Icha. In 1981, I was 16 28 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,040 and I remember going to college, and somebody came and said, 29 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,240 "There's a march going on for the New Cross fire." 30 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,600 Instantly, we all came out of our lessons, jumped on the bus... 31 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,080 Sea of black people was there, already. 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,720 Today, after weeks of growing resentment 33 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,760 at what is seen as police failure to bring charges, 34 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,800 black groups staged a protest march through London. 35 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:12,160 It was an eye-opener. That's where my political life really began. 36 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,440 It was the first march I ever went on. 37 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:29,320 I grew up in Kennington, which is an area about a mile and a half, 38 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,680 maybe two miles from Brixton. 39 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,320 We had a sound system, we had a group of friends, 40 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:42,400 and most Saturdays we'd be playing out on the street, to test them, 41 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,200 stringing up the sound... I was like, I was a technician guy, yeah! 42 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,480 So I'd be soldering wires together, and... That was our life. 43 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,760 Loads of fun. The sound system days were the best fun. 44 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,960 You're enjoying yourself, 45 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:05,320 you're not having to focus about this outside shadow world. 46 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,040 Kennington was a very racist area - you know, "Niggers go home." 47 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:14,800 "NF" on the walls. 48 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,480 You saw that everywhere. 49 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,840 Even the little children would sing songs. 50 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,200 "Nig nog gollywog, go back to Brixton." 51 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,400 That's how I found out what Brixton was, 52 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,000 from that song they used to sing. 53 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,080 "Nig nog gollywog, go back to Brixton." 54 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:36,760 My name is Sheldon Thomas. Me and Chris met in Kennington, 55 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,720 and he was seven, I was six. 56 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,720 We were a close-knit family, all of us were first-generation, 57 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,520 born to West Indian parents, and most of us 58 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,240 had suffered some form of racial abuse, as kids. 59 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,720 So we could all understand each other 60 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,280 because of what we was going through. 61 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,520 We lived in a block of flats, 62 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,320 and they were being redeveloped, 63 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,440 cos they were falling apart, basically. 64 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,040 So we all kind of moved out at the same time. 65 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,200 Moving to Brixton was like moving 66 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,680 to a whole new country, that was like... 67 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,560 Not even a country - a galaxy! 68 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,840 It was like moving to a whole new planet, it was completely different. 69 00:04:17,840 --> 00:04:22,000 Heavy Duty by U-Roy 70 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,960 Everything was colourful. 71 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:26,880 There was music everywhere. 72 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,840 And everybody spoke with a Jamaican accent. 73 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,160 It was just so uplifting. You didn't have to... 74 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,200 ..hide, I didn't have to run no gauntlet no more. 75 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,280 Brixton, where more than 20,000 West Indians now live. 76 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:49,240 It's always been a flourishing trade centre and an area which, 77 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,160 today, has all the colour you'd see in a Caribbean market. 78 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,640 Festival Of Dub by Bunny Lee & The Agrovators 79 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,880 My first memories of Brixton Market, well, um, I had to have 80 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,840 a friend with me to identify what foods are what, 81 00:05:02,840 --> 00:05:06,280 because me coming from the children's home in Surrey, sometimes 82 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:09,440 I didn't know what a yam was, or a green banana was, 83 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,360 or a dashin was. 84 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,840 It comes from West Africa, right, but they grow yam and that 85 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:18,800 out there. Yam, green bananas, 86 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,760 okra. You know, okra's a thing that you put in your dinner. 87 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,000 They have a saying that it takes a village to raise a child, 88 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,800 and I was very much part of that village. 89 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,440 Could You Be Loved by Bob Marley And The Wailers 90 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,600 My name is Ros Griffiths and, in 1981, 91 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,320 I was about 15, coming on to 16. 92 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,520 Brixton is where I became of age. 93 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:49,000 ♪ Could you be loved and be loved? ♪ 94 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,360 Growing up on a council estate, it was vibrant, there were people 95 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:59,040 that looked like me, I could play out with my friends. We had fun. 96 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,080 One thing for sure, 97 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,920 morning, noon and night, reggae music would be played. 98 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,920 ♪ Love would never leave us alone 99 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,880 ♪ A-in the darkness ya must come out to light... ♪ 100 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:15,360 When I first heard Could You Be Loved by Bob Marley, for me, 101 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,440 that made me reflect back on my own life 102 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,080 and what I had experienced all throughout my childhood. 103 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:22,920 Could I be loved? 104 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,040 And then I'd be up again, you know, 105 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,840 bounce along the street, feeling confident again. "You know what? 106 00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:34,760 "I'm valuable, I CAN be loved." 107 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,640 You know, it was very important for me, that song. 108 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,680 ♪ We've got a mind of our own 109 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,920 ♪ So go to hell if what you're thinking is not right... ♪ 110 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,360 At the time, I was trying to figure out what kind of woman 111 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:48,960 I needed to go forth and be. 112 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,320 So I started to listen to the message. 113 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,120 Bob Marley, his music, his words, 114 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,720 it was all about knowing where you're coming from, 115 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,840 in terms of who you are, as...as a people. 116 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:10,080 For many black boys, at that time, 117 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,280 we were trying to find where are we going to fit in? 118 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,960 and that's the reason why Brixton became so prominent to us. 119 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:22,680 Because, we fit in to Brixton, the whole thinking of Jamaican life. 120 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,280 We squatted a Victorian townhouse in Mayall Road, which is 121 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,400 parallel with Railton Road. 122 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,480 When we moved there, Brixton was a poor neighbourhood, it was 123 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,640 a rundown neighbourhood, it was an immigrant neighbourhood. 124 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,240 In my social life, if I said I lived in Brixton, 125 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:41,960 there'd be eyebrows raised. 126 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,600 ♪ I was born on the line... ♪ 127 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,160 For these young people, 128 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,000 life on the streets of London is tough, 129 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,800 and view outsiders, particularly the police, 130 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,240 with deep suspicion. They think of Railton Road, in the heart 131 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,000 of Brixton, quite literally as the front line of a war zone. 132 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,440 Outside tensions bring the black community together there. 133 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,240 ♪ So meet me Meet me on the Frontline... ♪ 134 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,880 Railton Road was called the Frontline - 135 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,640 I think because it was a place of... 136 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,160 ..resistance. 137 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,920 You felt, when you went down the Frontline, that you 138 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,920 were very much kind of in a black stronghold. 139 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,600 When you're on the Frontline, 140 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,200 you feel safe, you know, you feel together, they feel like this 141 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,760 is their home, there's no way that anybody can take it away from you. 142 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,400 So the weed was there, the Jamaicans was there, 143 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,160 the bars were there, and they had the club, Shepherds. 144 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,640 Every Wednesday, every Friday, sound system, you would play there, 145 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,200 so we'd always be there. 146 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,440 Um, darkened spot. 147 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,160 Two rooms, chock-a-block, 148 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:00,880 sweat pouring out the place. 149 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:03,400 Tune... 150 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,160 Man like Gregory Isaacs! 151 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,400 Yeah, man, that's what I'm saying, man! 152 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,120 Can you imagine the vibe, the vibe there? The music, the food, 153 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,560 and you're with your girl. 154 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:22,880 ♪ Night Nurse... ♪ 155 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,560 Night Nurse, oh, we loved that song. 156 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:26,560 That was called a rub-down song. 157 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:30,600 ♪ It's a case of emergency 158 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,920 ♪ There's a patient by the name of Gregory... ♪ 159 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,520 One night, we was to go on a raid, there was an illegal blues party - 160 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:43,720 they were illegal, in so much as people got charged for alcohol. 161 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,120 This was regarded almost as like crime of the century, 162 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,360 and had to be stamped down upon. 163 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,880 So, we were briefed as to what to do, 164 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,360 which, quite frankly, was just go and break up or smash up this party, 165 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:03,160 and I was told to stick with a PC and not leave his side. 166 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,600 This is nigh on my first experience of policing. 167 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,960 So we stormed in. 168 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,440 It was pandemonium. I saw little bags of cannabis being 169 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,120 ditched by people onto the floor. 170 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,720 And I saw police officers attributing them 171 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,000 to whoever they fancied. "You're nicked," and dragging them out. 172 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,120 My PC, from inside his truncheon pocket, 173 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,400 he pulled out a knitting needle, 174 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,120 and then he went up to the speakers, and pierced it, right through 175 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,120 the centre of one speaker, went to the other big speaker, 176 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,120 and stuck it straight in. 177 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,720 That would have rendered the speakers irreparable. 178 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,720 He then stamped on just about each and every record, one by one, 179 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:54,040 slamming his size tens down onto the records. 180 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,720 Well, for me, in my hostel, in Elm Park, which is opposite 181 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,000 Brixton prison, there was the house party. 182 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,040 Some neighbour complained about the noise, and the police came, 183 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:12,280 they stormed in, and arrested not just me, but many others. 184 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,600 I remember sitting in a cell, and the owner of the sound system, 185 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,600 he was a man called Trevor. He was in a cell next to me. 186 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,120 I mean, I'm fresh to Brixton, so I'm thinking, "OK, 187 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,680 "they might want to scare us, they might want to intimidate us." 188 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,360 And Trevor was a big guy. 189 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,680 He was a big guy. I've no idea how many officers came to assault him. 190 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,240 The sound I heard from him, his voice... 191 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,280 ..raging and flinching and wailing in pain. 192 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,840 It's scarring to experience that. 193 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,920 Never forgotten it, I don't think I ever will, you know, 194 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,840 that was my first experience of real police violence. 195 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,280 ♪ A suffering man in the ghetto... ♪ 196 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,520 Riot-equipped police are descending on the West Indian 197 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,920 community in Bristol to try and quell what is probably 198 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,360 the worst street violence the city has ever seen. 199 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,600 The trouble began mid afternoon with an angry crowd hurling bricks, 200 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,200 bottles, slates, anything they could lay their hands on. 201 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,920 Policemen had come to raid a cafe, 202 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,640 until the police decided to pull out and abandon the area. 203 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,240 ♪ We wanna see the light 204 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,480 ♪ So we can unite... ♪ 205 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,960 After the riots in Bristol, it made people think, that, 206 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,040 "Wow. "The police actually withdrew, so, 207 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,840 "if something kicks off in Brixton, would they do the same?" 208 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,440 When you come down in such a force, 209 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,840 it doesn't look like you're out to raid a cafe, right? 210 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,040 And you put the wrong impression on people. 211 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,280 The point being emphasised over and over again is that last 212 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,680 night's rampage was not a race riot. 213 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:02,400 It was a boiling over of black anger against the police. 214 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,920 We are angry about it and what I am saying is not a local thing. 215 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,560 It's a conspiracy with the government and the police. 216 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,320 We were aware that there was a growing hostility to 217 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,480 the police, that we did expect to blow. So Bristol, for us, 218 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,520 was a sign that that hostility was really coming to the fore. 219 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,600 And then, I think, in '81, the atmosphere in Brixton, 220 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,320 after New Cross, feelings were running extremely high. 221 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,440 It's understood the report rules out a racial motive for the blaze 222 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,000 and it's unlikely that there will be any prosecutions. 223 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,920 We all know why. The police have round up black youth in order 224 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,720 to negate the racist attack theory. 225 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,040 And that fuels more anger about how this fire was being treated, 226 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,320 and how we, as black people, were being treated within the society. 227 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,640 The New Cross fire happened on January the 18th, 228 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,480 and on the 13th of March, the coroner told us that he 229 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:06,760 was going to hold an inquest in the interests of racial harmony. 230 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,080 This is madness. 231 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,160 How can we hold an inquest? We haven't invest... 232 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,360 You know, we've not fully investigated this. 233 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,280 You made the case come forward, 234 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,000 and say for racial harmony. 235 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,040 Racial who? How? 236 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,040 The coroner calling the inquest early, I think, was 237 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,240 an absolute knee jerk reaction to the black people's day of action. 238 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,840 It's politics, isn't it? Thousands have been mobilised on this issue. 239 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,920 We need to be shown to be doing something, 240 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:31,800 we better get on with the inquest. 241 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,200 I was laying in a hospital bed, one leg cocked up in the air, 242 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,480 two arms hanging off the side of the bed. 243 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,880 Can't do anything, I can't go on these marches, I can't help anybody. 244 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,400 How did I feel about it? 245 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,440 I was mad. I was angry. 246 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,960 In the past few years, many people in London have 247 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,440 warned of an increasingly hostile relationship 248 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,280 between the police and the black and Asian communities. 249 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:00,880 The biggest problem is "Sus", 250 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,160 the controversial suspected persons charge, which allows police 251 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,040 to arrest anyone they suspect is about to commit a crime. 252 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,920 Sus gave the police carte blanche, really, 253 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,520 and you could just feel, I mean, you could feel 254 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,520 in the air that it was getting tenser and tenser. 255 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,160 Nothing to say! OK. 256 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,080 If a police officer calls a black man a nigger, 257 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,120 shouldn't he be dismissed? 258 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,400 No. Why should...? No! Indeed not. 259 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,480 Like everything else, why should he... 260 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,640 ..why should he be dismissed for calling him a nigger? 261 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,440 Because it's a term of abuse. 262 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,000 That's a matter of opinion. 263 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,800 Here are the Metropolitan Police, in the aftermath of what had 264 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,440 happened in Bristol the year before, thinking that what 265 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,400 happened there couldn't happen successfully in London, 266 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,480 days after this massive march of black people, 267 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,320 out of racist overconfidence, mounting this operation, 268 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,760 named in celebration of a racist Margaret Thatcher speech. 269 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,360 This country might be rather swamped by people with a different culture. 270 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,360 As Operation Swamp was largely a stop-and-search operation, 271 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,120 whereby every officer that could be cobbled together 272 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,200 was put out on to the streets of Brixton with the instructions 273 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,760 that, if it moved, stop it and search it. 274 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,720 My own view about the control of street crime is 275 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,480 as many officers in the street as possible. 276 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,200 It was almost like a show of strength. 277 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:35,000 They said, "Whatever you think you are, whatever you think 278 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,920 "your reasons for demanding justice, we're here to say that, 279 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,760 "you know, we can do what we want with you." 280 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:48,880 It was as if the whole black community was back against the wall, 281 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:50,320 was on trial. 282 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,840 At the height of Operation Swamp, there was one particular day 283 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,160 I was stopped three times. 284 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,160 The first time was when I walked down Brixton Hill. 285 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,400 I was asked to empty my pockets for no reason. 286 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,440 They searched me, I went about my business, 287 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,400 I signed on at the dole office. 288 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,520 I came out. Then I was stopped again. They said that 289 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:18,000 they was looking for someone who fitted my description. And then 290 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,320 I was stopped again. I think I just looked into a jewellery shop 291 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,240 or something, just looking at jewellery. 292 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,200 They said that I was acting suspiciously. 293 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,840 Suspiciously? What? I can't even look into a jeweller's window? 294 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,040 When people talk about Operation Swamp, Sus and all of that, 295 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,320 what people are failing to understand 296 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,600 is the brutality that comes with that. 297 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,720 People think it's, "Oh, you know, I just want to check your pockets." 298 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,840 It wasn't like that. 299 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,680 When they stopped you, it was a punch first. 300 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,880 And that's when I realised, this is war. 301 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,000 I am going to go out of my way to hurt you. 302 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,760 My name is Stephen Margiotta. In 1981, 303 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:12,040 I was a probation police officer at Brixton Police Station. 304 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,640 I'd been there about six months after I finished at Hendon. 305 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,800 It was war. I remember that much, 306 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,800 because I was in shirt sleeves most of the week. 307 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,080 Just like any other day, going to work. 308 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,360 I just called up and accepted a call of criminal damage 309 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:28,960 further down Railton Road. 310 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,120 So that day, from the afternoon, all we talked about was Shepherds 311 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,000 because we're all dance hall people, innit. 312 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,520 So on the Friday night, we was going to go and listen up. 313 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,880 I made my way down to Railton Road. 314 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,840 And then I think I heard someone shouting. I looked back down 315 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,360 the road and I saw this guy come running towards me. 316 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:52,600 Quite certain, by even my naive experience, 317 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,360 that he was being chased by somebody! 318 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:59,520 I thought, "This can't be right." I could see his shirt lifted up 319 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,120 and he had a huge, huge gash in his back. It was bleeding. 320 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,840 So I thought, "Bugger, what's happened here?" 321 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:07,960 I tried to talk to him, 322 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,120 but I was immediately surrounded by people 323 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:12,480 asking me what I was doing and why I was doing it, 324 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,120 and, "What's he done?" 325 00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,560 I got on the radio and I called the station, 326 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,560 and I said that this guy was seriously hurt. Unless someone gets 327 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,440 to him very soon, he's going to die cos he's losing so much blood. 328 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,880 And that was it, he was off again. 329 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,440 I couldn't chase him any more. 330 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,440 We're coming out of Shepherd's Youth Centre, walking down Atlantic Road, 331 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,360 and then that's when we saw the police surrounding a black guy 332 00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:39,960 who had been stabbed. 333 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:46,200 And for us, the argument was, take him to the hospital. 334 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,800 I can't remember how long later it was, and the van unit called up 335 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,400 and said that the van had been surrounded by people. 336 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,240 And assuming that they were doing him harm, 337 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,960 greater harm than was already done to him. 338 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,440 And then they asked for urgent assistance and, er, 339 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,720 then it all kicked off from there. 340 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,200 In the late afternoon, an urgent assistance call came up. 341 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,400 Railton Road, yeah, we'll have a lump of that. 342 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,600 When we got there, it was a bit of a chaotic scene. 343 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,840 There was some angry people. 344 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,200 Nobody was really clear what was going on. 345 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,240 "Leave him alone. Blah, blah, blah!" 346 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,400 You know, that kind of shouting thing. 347 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,560 But then somebody threw a brick. 348 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,240 And then I threw a brick. 349 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,760 And then we all threw bricks. 350 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,200 Things started getting slung at us - bits of rubble, 351 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,160 the occasional half a house brick. 352 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,160 A little skirmish took place. Nothing serious, I would say, 353 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,360 but that's when I think people started saying, 354 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:50,160 "We're going to have to do something, 355 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,720 "we can't have this no more." 356 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,840 Not very long into this, a call came up, 357 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,840 which was issued from Brixton police station, 358 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:05,120 that told us to patrol in a convoy in a never-ending loop 359 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:07,120 which went down Railton Road, 360 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:10,640 back down a bit of Brixton High Street and round again. 361 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,560 And we did that, quite literally, for hours. 362 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,320 At one point, a lady flags us down. 363 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:23,360 So we stop, one of our colleagues opened the back door, and she 364 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:29,600 slid a crate of light ales. Turns out she was the landlady of a pub. 365 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,360 She said, "There you go, boys. 366 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,680 "Thank you very much for what you're doing. Have a drink on me." 367 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,520 "Thank you very much," we thought. 368 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,880 And off we went again. Round and round and round, 369 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,400 antagonising people endlessly. 370 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,400 The violence had broken out in Brixton in south London 371 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,840 when about 100 black youths surrounded policemen, 372 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,160 questioning a youth who had been stabbed in the back. 373 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,880 Community leaders have complained of tension between Brixton's 374 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,640 black community and the police for several years now. 375 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,160 That morning, on the 11th, I got up early 376 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,280 and I walked down to Brixton from about 377 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,880 nine o'clock. And even from that point in the morning, 378 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,120 there was an increased presence of the police. 379 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,800 Things were getting serious. They were everywhere now. 380 00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:25,480 One Saturday morning, I went into work as usual 381 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,400 and was told there had been some trouble overnight in Brixton, 382 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,560 and I was sent down there with a photographer, Neil Libbert. 383 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,360 When we got there, you could sense that trouble was in the air. There 384 00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:40,400 were lots of police on the street, and quite a lot of young men 385 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,640 looking at them suspiciously. There was a sort of standoff, if you like. 386 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,880 I think it was round about lunchtime 387 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,320 that I saw a wave of people moving towards Atlantic Road. 388 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,080 And when I got there, there seemed to be this standoff. 389 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,040 There was a swell of black people by that point. 390 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,680 Neil and I were standing in Atlantic Road 391 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:07,080 when suddenly, out of nowhere, these two thuggish looking guys 392 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,000 darted into the crowd and grabbed hold of a young black man. 393 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,200 We immediately realised these were undercover policemen. 394 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,880 And with the immortal words, "you're nicked", 395 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,040 they dragged him towards a police van. 396 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:24,280 And the police were very arrogant about the way they were manhandling 397 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:29,360 this black man, and I don't think they expected what happened next. 398 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:33,360 Because by that time, there were so many of us that there was 399 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:36,440 a rush to free this man who was arrested. 400 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,600 The police were completely taken by surprise. 401 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,240 I think they weren't expecting this reaction at all. 402 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,200 It was an incredibly stupid thing to do. 403 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,360 It really was asking for trouble, and they certainly got trouble. 404 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:54,880 We were in the garage playing our music, 405 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,480 testing our sounds, building our amps 406 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,680 and then we heard a helicopter. 407 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,080 Virtually on the roof of my house. 408 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,920 That's what it sounded like! 409 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,840 So we opened the garage to look what this noise was. 410 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,520 And the number two bus come down his road. 411 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,040 No buses never come down Chris's road. 412 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,400 It's a side road. So we knew something was up, 413 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,360 so we just switched off all the equipment, went out to Brixton. 414 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:27,040 When we got to the high street, 415 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,360 wow, I have to say, 416 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:34,080 it was one of the proudest moments in our lives. 417 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,080 Hundreds of us, all my age group - 418 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:43,400 15, 16, 17, 18-year-old. Hundreds. 419 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:48,840 ♪ Are you ready to stand up and fight the right revolution? ♪ 420 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,840 ♪ Do you know what it means to have a revolution? ♪ 421 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,720 I didn't know what it meant, but I found out! 422 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,280 I was so shocked and surprised, but excited at the same time. 423 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,360 You see people turning over cars, and you go and help. 424 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:10,160 You just join in, you know? People are smashing shop windows 425 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,440 so you join in. You pick up a brick and you smash some shop windows. 426 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:18,680 ♪ Are you ready to stand up and fight the right revolution? ♪ 427 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,880 From early afternoon, gangs of youths, some white 428 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,000 but predominantly black held the police at bay. 429 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,000 Petrol bombs, stones and bottles were thrown, buildings 430 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,240 and vehicles wrecked and set on fire. 431 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,760 The only way to defuse the situation is by decreasing 432 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,720 the presence of police within the area at the present time. 433 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,920 Because they see the police as their target. 434 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:41,840 They want police withdrawal, you see, 435 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,440 and I'm not prepared to do that. 436 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,480 Why not? I mean, is that not a reasonable...? 437 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,240 No, because I think if we withdraw, 438 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,600 then we shall allow them to do as they wish. 439 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,000 There's looting going on already 440 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,360 and I'm not prepared to extend that. 441 00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,440 What they wanted us to do, right? 442 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,720 They wanted us to disperse, but we live in Brixton! 443 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,800 They don't live in Brixton! OK? 444 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,720 So we asked them to disperse, but they wouldn't disperse. 445 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,720 We got called in, 446 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,000 and all hell was breaking out. 447 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,960 The windows on our people carrier disappeared fairly quickly. 448 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,120 Once the windows had gone, what we did was duck our heads down 449 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,480 so that we were beneath the windows, so hopefully 450 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,920 we wouldn't be hit if anything else came in. 451 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,920 And we would stick our hands out with our truncheons, 452 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,960 and we would flail them and batter 'em, 453 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,040 and would you feel it whack something from time to time. 454 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,360 You didn't know if that was a person or a thing. 455 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,400 This was a war zone, we were in a battle for our lives here, 456 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,440 and if someone's going to cop for it, so be it. 457 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,920 That was my attitude...for a while. 458 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,440 I can only describe as we drove into Cold Harbour Lane, 459 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,960 it was like watching a sea. 460 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,560 A crowd that were, you know, stoked up 461 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,400 and you could almost feel the tension, 462 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,400 you could feel...almost hysteria. 463 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,880 That's really when the missiles started. 464 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,960 Bricks being thrown, bottles being thrown. 465 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,920 They have low front walls in front of their terrace housing there, 466 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,800 and I remember people kicking them down. 467 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,640 They wanted the bricks for ammunition. 468 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,080 We began to get poles, scaffolding, bricks, baseball bats, 469 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,000 dustbin lids. We wanted to hurt the police any which way we could. 470 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,520 I remember the first time I heard a policeman say the word gollywog. 471 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,480 I'm nine! The next time, a man's holding me up by my neck, I'm 11. 472 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,480 People need to understand. I felt that the police brutality 473 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,240 that I faced as a black boy 474 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,880 was enough of a justification for me to hurt one of them. 475 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,800 There was like a cinema playing in mind, of all the indignities 476 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,040 that I had experienced with the police. 477 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,000 Especially remember Trevor's assault and his screams and his wails, 478 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,520 and there I was with the opportunity to get some revenge. 479 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,640 And I have to admit, it felt good. 480 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,200 And that Bob Marley song kept playing in my head. 481 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,120 "Slave driver. The tables are turning. 482 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:21,800 "You catch a fire, you're gonna get burned." 483 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:28,320 ♪ Slave driver The table has turned... ♪ 484 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,400 I mean, wow. 485 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,560 When you hear that as a teenager, you're thinking... 486 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:43,000 ♪ Slave driver, the table has turned 487 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:48,760 ♪ Catch a fire so you can get burned... ♪ 488 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,080 I do remember, there was a man standing on the roof, 489 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,680 and I remember him shouting, 490 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,640 "I am going to watch you be humiliated in your defeat." 491 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,760 Then it just seemed to be relentless. 492 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,000 A lot of chaos, a lot of coppers getting hurt. 493 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:21,720 I feared for my life and for the lives of my colleagues. 494 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,400 It was that ghastly. 495 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,720 See a substantial number of people 496 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:43,080 that clearly, as I saw it, had the intention to kill me. 497 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,800 Not because of me as an individual but because of the cloth 498 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,240 that I wore. The symbol that I represented. 499 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,120 It was like, "What is this all about?" 500 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,920 I can only speak personally. I was terrified. 501 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,080 At one stage, I couldn't see beyond just in front of the shield. 502 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,000 The flames were that high that you couldn't see past them. 503 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,240 I had been an ambulance officer prior to becoming a police officer, 504 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,520 and I picked up several people with third-degree burns. 505 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,400 So loads of people often ask me, 506 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,840 "Did you think you were going to die?" I actually didn't, 507 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,320 but did I think I might end up with third-degree burns? Yes, I did. 508 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,160 And anyone who's ever had the misfortune even to have that injury 509 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,960 would know that is life-changing forever. 510 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,120 We make our way to Brixton from Piccadilly Circus, Regent Street. 511 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,760 On the way there, can hear comments 512 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,000 like, uh, "These BBs, these black bastards," 513 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,240 you know, "They're rioting down there," you know, 514 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,120 "Why don't we just let them riot?" I come thinking, 515 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,320 "Don't they realise that I'm in here?" 516 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,800 And as we hit Brixton High Road, then I can see 517 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,680 the flicker of flames in the distance. 518 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,320 And you can hear shouting, you can hear screaming 519 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,000 and you can hear glass breaking. 520 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,160 Then all of a sudden, people were shouting and screaming, 521 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,080 looked up and saw my face. 522 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,720 Oh, my God, the next thing you know, the bricks. Whack! 523 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,680 One of the windows went in. 524 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,480 I could see the fire bombs coming around The Green Goddesses. 525 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,800 This was a determined effort, I think, you know, to get to me. 526 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,640 Brixton Station was just there. 527 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,160 The officers got off. I could see them pushing off people. 528 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,840 You could see that on either side of the doors, the shields were there. 529 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,880 I came out. Some of the officers, they escorted me 530 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,560 into Brixton Police Station under heavy bombardment. 531 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,120 And all I can say is that those officers, 532 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,960 you know, I didn't hear one racist comment then. 533 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,600 All they did was ask if I was all right. 534 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,680 And at that moment, I looked and I thought... 535 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,440 All the stuff I'd been hearing on the way down there 536 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,640 was making me angry cos I'm amongst these people, 537 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,400 and then they are protecting me. 538 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,080 And I thought, "Wow!" You know, "What a turnaround." 539 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,120 Ladies and gentlemen... 540 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,680 I remember we were still in our line, 541 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:28,080 and all of a sudden, from nowhere, a vicar run alongside. 542 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,800 And he was screaming, "It's all your fault. It's all your fault. 543 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,520 "You know, this is all your fault." 544 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,200 Including the places that were on fire was the pub 545 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,240 where the landlady had given us the crate of light ales 546 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,680 the night before. 547 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,920 It was deeply shocking. 548 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,520 We had some affection towards that lady because of how she treated us. 549 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,360 Her pub was literally burnt to the ground. 550 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,280 The flames... When you have a fire like that, you really feel the heat. 551 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,200 I don't think people quite understand 552 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,520 how you could feel it so much. 553 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,360 For me, it was kind of a bit of karma. 554 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,960 I remember people saying to me 555 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,400 that they don't like serving black people. 556 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,240 My father, I remember, once I was united with him, 557 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,360 we had a conversation about how he was denied entry 558 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,000 to so many pubs in South London 559 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,720 and how he felt less than a man because they would not serve him. 560 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,360 But to turn around and see that on fire, I thought... 561 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,160 I had complete understanding as to why The George was burned down. 562 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,280 We used to call The George "Rhodesia". 563 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,440 It was not really a place that welcomed black people, 564 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,000 so it's targeted. They have taken down The George. 565 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,400 And that was at the end of my road, so I saw The George go up in flames. 566 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,080 I don't take fires very well, even now, because it does... 567 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,560 It tears at my heart strings. 568 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:54,440 But do you know what? 569 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,920 They were good fires. 570 00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:01,560 Watch out! 571 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,640 They were fires of freedom. 572 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,600 People were breaking the chains. 573 00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:18,480 I understood why it was happening - 574 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,040 better than I understood anything else, really. 575 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,520 But I was in this court room of, 576 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,440 "I understand what my peoples are about. 577 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,600 "They shouldn't really have been violent upon it, 578 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:28,960 "but they have to make a stance." 579 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,680 There I am, as a police officer, to protect the law. 580 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,480 Blimey! I've got to do my job. 581 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,440 We always thought we were in charge. 582 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,840 We always thought we bossed it. 583 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:46,360 It was always about winning the battle against the bad guys. 584 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:51,480 That weekend, we roundly lost. 585 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,280 Well into the night, the police struggled to be seen 586 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,440 on the streets and in control of them. 587 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,080 Now, with the alarm bells clamouring in their ears, 588 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,600 they remained in their coaches, trying to doze, 589 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,360 waiting to see if the calm would last. 590 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,760 There were so many police in these coaches. 591 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,680 And they were sipping coffee in polystyrene cups. 592 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,720 And they looked at us - and their faces were full of fear, 593 00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:17,280 full of fear. It struck me, at that point, 594 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,920 that the police had somehow been weakened 595 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,840 and were vulnerable and were fragile. 596 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,800 They were scared. That's the first time I seen police scared. 597 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,240 That's the first time I saw them as human beings. 598 00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:32,960 I didn't see them as human beings before. We see them as robots. 599 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,480 When I got home that night, 600 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,360 I thought, "I'm an enemy of the people. 601 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,080 "I'm not helping the people. 602 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,320 "This is not what I joined policing for." 603 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,840 And I just went, you know, "I've got to get out of this uniform. 604 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,240 "I can't hack this. I have got to get out of this uniform." 605 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,440 I managed to get home round about half four, 606 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,720 maybe five o'clock in the morning. 607 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,040 I just could not sleep. 608 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,600 And I remember writing on a back of a record sleeve, 609 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,760 you know, the starting of a lyric... 610 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:17,760 ♪ Uprising, this uprising 611 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,120 ♪ We're sick and tired of the ghetto housing 612 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,080 ♪ And the damn sus law and police beating 613 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,840 ♪ We have no work and we have no shilling 614 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,960 ♪ We can't take no more of this suffering 615 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,920 ♪ You better send for the army... ♪ 616 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,760 There is official bewilderment 617 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,040 as to how a riot on this scale occurred. 618 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,760 For nearly six hours last night, 619 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,600 police struggled to retain control of Brixton's decaying streets. 620 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,360 Their antagonists were 500 or 600 mainly black teenagers. 621 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,080 It was one of the worst riots seen in Britain. 622 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,080 Well, it was the next day, really, then, when I went out 623 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,200 and I saw it was like a war zone - 624 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,680 buildings still smouldering, wrecked cars, 625 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,160 rubble everywhere. 626 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,600 It was just...like the world was over, really. 627 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,080 No-one must condone the violence. 628 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,760 No-one must condone the disgraceful events that took place. 629 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,280 It should not have happened. 630 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,600 They were criminal - criminal - and they should never have occurred. 631 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,920 What this resulted in was worldwide attention on Brixton, 632 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,680 news crews all over the world and wanting to know 633 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,080 what's gone on and why it happened. 634 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,800 It seemed to be very biased against us, 635 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,480 but at least it was being debated and discussed. 636 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:39,640 People might doubt our methods, but no doubt it made people stand up 637 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,280 and take notice - that if you are oppressing people for so long, 638 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,240 one day, they're going to rise up and bite your ass. 639 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,880 Tensions had not evaporated when the Home Secretary, 640 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,960 Mr Whitelaw, visited Brixton this afternoon. 641 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,600 As he toured the scarred streets, there were chants of derision 642 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,800 and Mr Whitelaw was closely protected by police. 643 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,440 He now faces demands by community leaders 644 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,080 for an independent enquiry into police action. 645 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,800 The events of this weekend call for 646 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,600 the most thorough examination. 647 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,840 I have therefore decided to appoint an enquiry. 648 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,720 I have invited Lord Scarman to undertake this enquiry, 649 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:23,360 and I am glad to say he has accepted. 650 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,680 Lord Scarman, what sort of information 651 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,080 are you asking people to come forward with? 652 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,200 Two sorts of information - one about the facts of the riots, 653 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,240 very important, and the other, to come forward 654 00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:40,760 with their views as to the underlying social conditions 655 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,280 giving rise to the sort of tensions which broke out 656 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:45,880 into these disturbances. 657 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,640 My name is Philip Mawer, and I was the secretary 658 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,280 of Lord Scarman's enquiry into the Brixton disturbances. 659 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,880 It was a concern at the outset that we might not get the co-operation 660 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,560 of the local community, but we had to make the effort, 661 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,720 to go and talk to people and explain. 662 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:10,000 And my main pitch was simply this - 663 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,680 "This is an opportunity for you. 664 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,760 "If you don't take this opportunity, your voice will not be heard," 665 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,720 "And that will be disastrous." 666 00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:24,680 When Lord Scarman came to us, we had a little bit of a hope. 667 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,320 And I'm going to tell you why I said that - 668 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,560 because he met with us physically. 669 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:33,840 Lord Scarman came to see us in the youth centre, Shepherds. Yeah? 670 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,520 I don't remember a white person in the establishment ever asking 671 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:43,280 a black kid about their feelings, about why you did what you did. 672 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:44,320 He did. 673 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,920 What was striking about it was the juxtaposition - 674 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,040 Scarman, in a sense, quintessential representative 675 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,080 of the British establishment on the one hand, 676 00:39:54,080 --> 00:40:00,160 and on the other hand, the setting and the intensity of the discussion. 677 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,680 They told him straight of their experience over the years, 678 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,440 people who had experienced policing at first hand 679 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,080 on the streets of Brixton. 680 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,480 We're not dumb... We know it's a bomb! 681 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,240 We're not dumb... We know it's a bomb... 682 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:19,920 From first thing this morning, about 30 demonstrators 683 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,360 were marching up and down outside the Coroner's Court, 684 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,320 chanting allegations of murder and a police cover-up. 685 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,280 With them, they had placards bearing the pictures of the 13 youngsters 686 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,400 who died in the fire. 687 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,520 Lawyers for the victims' families have insisted very firmly 688 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,960 that an incendiary was thrown through the window. 689 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,360 Just as firmly, the forensic expert has been sticking to his belief 690 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,760 that the fire started inside the house, on the carpet. 691 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,840 There is no evidence that indicates that there is any form of racialism 692 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,120 involved in this enquiry whatsoever. 693 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,680 He said that he didn't think that this was a racial attack, 694 00:40:53,680 --> 00:41:00,000 and I remember the whole court room just exploding with boos and shouts. 695 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,840 For over five hours, Commander Stockwell was cross-examined, 696 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,600 at times jeered derisively by relatives and friends 697 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,520 of the victims - in particular, over his evidence about 698 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,160 an alleged fight in the house shortly before the fire broke out. 699 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,120 Already at this inquest, young party-goers have denied there was 700 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,160 a fight, retracting statements they made while in police custody. 701 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,800 The judge asked me about my police interview and what have you, 702 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,920 so I said, "Well, the police were asking me the questions 703 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,520 "and answering them themselves." 704 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,640 And that was... That one line is enough. 705 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,280 The whole court was in uproar. 706 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,000 Denise had earlier claimed that police officers 707 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,840 had shouted at her. This was agreed by her father. 708 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,720 Mr Gooding said, "The officers were shouting, 'You're lying. 709 00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,480 "'Come on, Denise, you're lying. Don't cover up for anyone. 710 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,400 "'Remember, you have a dead brother, Andrew Gooding.'" 711 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,400 It was at this point that Mr Gooding broke down crying. 712 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,840 The coroner told him, "You must try and control yourself," 713 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,280 to which Mr Gooding replied, "You don't know what I'm going through." 714 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,200 "Listen, sir, I had three children in there 715 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,120 "and not one came out unhurt." 716 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,200 During the inquest, I went into labour. 717 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,160 And on the 5th of May, Janine was born at 14 minutes past 5.00. 718 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,000 Yes, out of all of this madness, she managed to arrive - 719 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,840 healthy, bouncing baby girl. 720 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,720 I felt over the moon, joyed and happy, but sad also, 721 00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:25,840 cos Paul should have been standing with me, too, 722 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,920 and watching our baby being born. 723 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,240 But I did it by myself, so... 724 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:35,680 After 13 days in court 725 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,960 and more than 80 hours of evidence from nearly 60 witnesses, 726 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,160 it took the jury just two hours to come to an open verdict. 727 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,600 Mrs Armza Ruddock, who gave the party and lost two children 728 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,800 in the fire, was in no mood to accept it. 729 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,120 An open verdict was what I expected, but it is not what it should be. 730 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:52,920 It should be murder. 731 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,600 It was an open verdict cos it wasn't investigated properly. 732 00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,400 I just want to know from that person why they actually done it 733 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:06,000 and just for someone to say they're sorry, but...just closure. 734 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,040 An open verdict, for me, isn't closure. 735 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:16,280 I was still in hospital. My mum came to the hospital. My mum cried - 736 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,680 because now at this point, for the rest of her life, 737 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,960 she's going to have to pack up work and look after me now. 738 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,960 So what about...? "Hold on, how am I going to take care of my son? 739 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,800 "There ain't no government help, there ain't no money coming from nowhere." 740 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:30,960 And she did. She broke down and cried. 741 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,520 She don't think it's fair, she didn't think it was fair on me, 742 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,440 she didn't think it was fair on any of the other children. 743 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,960 We got nothing at any time, whether it be a verdict, 744 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,400 you've caught somebody, whatever. Nothing. 745 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,080 Nothing in our case has gone right. 746 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:52,880 And do you know what? It's not fair. It's not right. 747 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:57,080 The verdict signalled to the black community that the police, 748 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:04,560 the media, courts basically all felt that those lives didn't matter. 749 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,760 And there were gasps of disbelief. 750 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:12,040 It was just like a pressure pot and the lid had just come off. 751 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,560 It was like... You couldn't hold it in any more. 752 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,280 Tension had been high 753 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,000 in Southall's Asian community in recent weeks, 754 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,600 but no-one was prepared for the scale of last night's violence. 755 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,840 One of the worst and most terrifying rioting 756 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:36,120 ever seen in Britain. 757 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,360 More than 100 white and coloured youths 758 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,720 fought a pitched battle against the police. 759 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:43,920 Some were as young as 12, the oldest no more than 20. 760 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,840 It's been building up for years, like Brixton and all that. 761 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,600 But in Brixton, it was all blacks. 762 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,960 But last night, it was blacks and whites. 763 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,600 Why? Why has it happened? 764 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,960 Because of police brutality, police harassment, oppression. 765 00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,920 We just want respect and treated like human beings. 766 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:01,360 That's what we are. 767 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,320 The unprecedented outbreak of violence 768 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,160 on the streets of Mainland Britain. 769 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,160 Last night, like the night before, 770 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,920 it was the turn of Manchester to suffer from rioting and looting. 771 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,280 I and a number of youth workers were running around Moss Side, 772 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,200 to get a sense of what was happening. 773 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,520 They were totally fearless. 774 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,120 They could not, on that night, give a damn 775 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,680 about what was likely to happen, or not happen, to them. 776 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:44,080 They felt a sense of strength, of collective energy. 777 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,880 And, I think, to a large extent, their boldness and confidence 778 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,920 came from the New Cross protest, 779 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,440 because they were amongst some of the young people who got on 780 00:45:54,440 --> 00:46:01,160 those 12 coaches that left outside Moss Side education centre that day 781 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,640 to go London to join the march. 782 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,840 Di Great Insohreckshan by Linton Kwesi Johnson 783 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:22,680 ♪ It was in April 1981, down 'n on dee ghetto of Brixton 784 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,200 ♪ Dat deh Babylon dem cause such a friction 785 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,920 ♪ That it bring about a great insohreckshan 786 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,280 ♪ And it spread all ovah di naeshan 787 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,200 ♪ It woz a truly an histarical okayjan... ♪ 788 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,880 I saw poetry as a cultural weapon 789 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,440 in the black liberation struggle. 790 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,160 ♪ Ev'ry rebel jussa revel in dem story... ♪ 791 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,760 I saw my role as a poet 792 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,360 as chronicling the history of black people in this country. 793 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,240 ♪ Fi mek di rulah dem andahstan 794 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:56,240 ♪ Dat wi naw tek noh more a dem oppreshan... ♪ 795 00:46:56,240 --> 00:47:00,520 Black people were no longer prepared to be marginalised 796 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,080 and treated like colonials. 797 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,680 ♪ We'll bring a blam-blam We'll bring a blam-blam 798 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,000 ♪ Nevah mine Scarman We'll bring a blam-blam. ♪ 799 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,560 The level of damage was unbelievable. 800 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,920 It totally shocked me, you know. 801 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:23,080 And this was just before Prince Charles and Diana's wedding, 802 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,960 and so you had this weird juxtaposition. 803 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,520 The establishment was gearing up to this royal wedding, 804 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,600 and yet the country was going up in flames. It was quite something. 805 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,520 The Prime Minister has called it the most worrying ten days 806 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:38,760 of her government. 807 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,560 For all of us, the rioting and burning of our cities 808 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,440 has shaken our unquestioning belief in a stable, law-abiding, 809 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,600 multi-racial Britain. 810 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:54,040 We all have a tendency to what I call moral relativism. 811 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,440 So, you would moralise about the conduct of people 812 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,360 who are resisting oppression, but you're quite prepared to live 813 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,560 very happily with the conduct of those who oppress them. 814 00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:10,680 And that's been the problem for as long as I have been in this country, 815 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,680 and that's since 1964. 816 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,920 Riots are not a pretty thing. 817 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,600 Brixton was bad, but the fact that there were subsequent disorders 818 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,600 heightened the importance of the inquiry process. 819 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,960 Because it was clear that what happened in Brixton 820 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:33,400 was not unique to Brixton, there was a national issue here, 821 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,080 that gave added impetus to the report. 822 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,360 It gave us the opportunity to give it added breath. 823 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,240 Well, in a moment, we'll be looking 824 00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:44,680 at the growing political argument over what needs to be done 825 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,800 to prevent such scenes in the future. 826 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,920 The Prime Minister, Mrs Thatcher, was in no doubt about her views. 827 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,840 The latest night of mob violence had nothing to do 828 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,800 with the city's problems of bad housing and unemployment. 829 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,920 It was a spree of naked greed. 830 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,960 They've taken nearly everything that the poor man have, you know? 831 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,080 I mean, they've taken away everything, bit by bit. 832 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,640 Soon, the poor man don't got nothing apart from his shoes. 833 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,560 Margaret Thatcher don't care about nothing, 834 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,280 no black man in this country. She don't care. 835 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,480 Martin Luther King is correct 836 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,840 when he says that riot is the language of the unheard. 837 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:18,960 We felt unheard, 838 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,880 and I'm sure that other communities all over the UK felt unheard. 839 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,280 I mean, living under a Thatcher government was incredibly tough. 840 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,880 But she had to, er, stand up and take notice. 841 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,600 BBC Newsnight Theme 842 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,800 The Scarman report on this summer's riots in Britain. 843 00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,080 It's already been described as a major challenge to the nation... 844 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,120 ..welcomed both by the Home Secretary and the police themselves, 845 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:46,600 but some people take... 846 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,680 ..now asking whether it will bring about any real change in Brixton. 847 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,400 Good evening. Lord Scarman's report has been welcomed by the government, 848 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:55,840 praised by the opposition, 849 00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,600 criticised by the local authority involved as a bitter disappointment. 850 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,360 Yet, for better or worse, it is now the official text for interpreting, 851 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,280 judging and trying to prevent a repetition of the summer riots 852 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,560 in the nation's major cities. 853 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,480 It's available only at £8. 854 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,880 Deprived youngsters who believed that they were deprived 855 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,440 because of the colour of their skin, 856 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,840 unable to get what they thought were fair opportunities of education 857 00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:31,160 or jobs, and suffering - as they thought - harassment, 858 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,640 took to the streets because they saw no other way 859 00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,760 of airing their grievances. 860 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,280 I believe that his report offered a challenge to Government 861 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:41,920 as well as to the police. 862 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:46,960 It represented, for the first time, an occasion on which, 863 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,920 A, the black voice was heard, and, B, the conditions 864 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:55,440 facing the black community were exposed vividly. 865 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,080 We knew that a lot of the discussion 866 00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,560 was all around this issue of deprivation - 867 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,840 these deprived poor youths, with no hope, 868 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,120 you know, this was the last straw - 869 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,200 that nobody really wanted to accept the real issue, 870 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,640 which was the issue of police oppression in the black community. 871 00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,120 You know, at the heart of all policing is relationship. 872 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,680 It's about a relationship between the police on the one hand 873 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,160 and the community on the other. 874 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,840 The tragedy in Brixton was that the relationship had broken down. 875 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:29,520 I think Scarman recognised that the police needed to change the way 876 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,840 that they worked with the black community. 877 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,640 And I think he made some recommendations about policing 878 00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:42,200 that were, by and large, ignored by the police. 879 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:46,080 Of course, to say it needs to be done 880 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,400 is not the same as it being done. 881 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,000 Was it taken up? 882 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,800 No, I don't think so. You see the same old behaviour happening. 883 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,880 A few policies are put into place - 884 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,080 you know, a little bit stronger supervision, 885 00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,520 leadership and things. 886 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,920 But was it robust enough? No. 887 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,760 Was it supported by the Government itself? No. 888 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,840 It was really disregarded by the Margaret Thatcher regime. 889 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,840 I comfort myself with the thought that in a democracy in particular, 890 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:22,240 one is perhaps always in the business of taking small steps 891 00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:25,720 towards a better state of affairs. 892 00:52:25,720 --> 00:52:30,080 And if Scarman's report contributed towards doing that, 893 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:35,040 then it did its job. 894 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,720 Redemption Song by Bob Marley & The Wailers 895 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,240 It was important that in 1981, 896 00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:47,120 more and more people from the African and Asian Diaspora 897 00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,960 gained a belief in collective action to bring about change. 898 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:55,640 ♪ Old pirates, yes, they rob I 899 00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,000 ♪ Sold I to the merchant ships... ♪ 900 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:05,800 For me, to be protagonists in pursuit of your own liberation, 901 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:10,800 demanding a right to be treated with respect, with dignity, 902 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,760 and not have those rights trampled upon by others 903 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,400 who believe they have the power to do so. 904 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,960 ♪ We forward in this generation... ♪ 905 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:21,560 Bob Marley passed, 906 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,800 and then this overwhelming sadness that many of us felt - 907 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,880 our prophet, our voice, our presence in the world. 908 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:31,760 It was a very low point in my life, actually, 909 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:36,640 because he passed just before I started my term in prison. 910 00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,520 Some weeks after the Brixton uprising, I was arrested. 911 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,120 I appeared at Camberwell Green Magistrates', 912 00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:46,160 and I was given the term of six months in prison - 913 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,480 for assaulting a police officer, resisting arrest. 914 00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,280 It was something that I didn't believe I would recover from. 915 00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,320 But I met one of the mentors of my life. 916 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,840 You know, so really my time there was a blessing in many ways. 917 00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:59,720 ♪ Won't you help to sing 918 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,800 ♪ These songs of freedom? 919 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,000 ♪ Cos all I ever have... ♪ 920 00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:14,840 None of the uprisings are pointless. None of them. 921 00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,160 The uprising sets down a marker that in this generation, 922 00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:21,640 we butted heads with Babylon, 923 00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:26,560 to let them know we need what everybody needs. 924 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:28,600 So we have to put our marker down, 925 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:33,440 whether the society responds to it or not. 926 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,080 For me, it's "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery." 927 00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,560 ♪ Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery 928 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:44,000 ♪ None but ourselves can free our minds... ♪ 929 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,400 I mean, that, to me is - I'm going to cry - 930 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:51,920 the story of what we tried to do, the energy and the impetus of 1981. 931 00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,320 Just thinking of that song has made me really emotional, I have to say. 932 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,480 I think the consciousness that came about 933 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:05,240 because of the Black People's Day of Action is one success. 934 00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:08,760 And although we couldn't get justice within the confines of the system, 935 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:10,960 I think, in a sense, it was a victory - 936 00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,520 because if it wasn't for the Massacre Action Committee, 937 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,600 there is no doubt in my mind 938 00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:20,080 that there would be three or four young black men currently in prison, 939 00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,120 having been charged with arson for the New Cross fire. 940 00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:27,200 In the sense that we were able to prevent that, that was a success. 941 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:31,280 Rosaline, 942 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:32,800 Gerry, 943 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,320 Steve, 944 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:35,600 Owen, 945 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:36,800 Glenton - 946 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,800 that was my ground zero. 947 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:43,000 And that was my time to start rebuilding my life, from that day. 948 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,160 But it's never... 949 00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,640 It's never been and it never will be the same again. 950 00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:53,520 My younger brother Andrew was the life of the house. 951 00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,400 It's hard being a survivor, especially the youngest survivor. 952 00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,280 It's hard, because... 953 00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,920 ..everybody's focused on the children who are not here, 954 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,000 but the kids who are here, suffering, 955 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,040 I don't think people really notice it. Yeah, you're alive. 956 00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:13,480 That's the thing. But we're the ones living it, day in and day out. 957 00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:17,480 I was unfortunate to lose my brother Andrew, at a very young age, 958 00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,880 and lose a lot of friends. There's some friends that I had 959 00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,480 at that party that I'd started secondary school with. 960 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,840 Tony - I mean, he escaped from there, 961 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,000 but after about a year and a half, he, you know, was really sad. 962 00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:36,000 That fire had a massive, massive impact on Tony. 963 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:40,840 Tony was all right before, Tony was all right before. 964 00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,520 I know it sounds, like, ridiculous and that, 965 00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:47,120 but you know what? I just want Andrew and my friends back. 966 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,800 So, trying to find out who done it... 967 00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:53,840 We need to find all that, but whatever justice we get, 968 00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:58,120 it still doesn't bring back Andrew and the rest. 969 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,640 I know that Andrew is not going to come back, 970 00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,800 and I probably will go to my grave and I will not know who do that. 971 00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:28,160 I will not know who started the fire, how it start, or nothing. 972 00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,960 I will have to... I leave him at the foot of the cross. 973 00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,960 What does that mean? 974 00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,080 I... I forgive them and forget them. 975 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,280 "Towards Closure". 976 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,320 These totemic oaks, 977 00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:23,960 once fragile saplings taken root in hostile soil, 978 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:29,400 now bear perennial witness to Spring's eternal song of hope.