**
-Wow! How excited am I?
Ladies and gentlemen, my guest today
is one of those rare artists who sells a ton of records.
He gets rave reviews from critics and influences
a whole generation of young rappers.
He won a ton of awards, and even tied the record
of a little group called The Beatles
for having six simultaneously top-20 hits
on the Billboard charts.
And besides all that, the guy can actually play basketball --
not a little bit, actually a lot of bit.
You should see his jump shot. Ladies and gentlemen,
I'm talking about none other than J. Cole.
Get out here, J. -Ooh!
-Look at that, man. See how I pieced that together?
-That boy is a pro. -Good to see you, man.
-You too, bro. -You look good, man.
-Thank you, man. You, too. Thanks for having me.
-Ah, man, thank you for being here, dude.
You know, J., this show -- I say it all the time
when people come on, just to set the tone,
make sure the temperature is right, the climate is good,
'cause I want you to be relaxed.
This is a show where it's about the artist.
I'm here to give flowers to those that deserve 'em.
-I appreciate it. Thank you. -That conversation is done
over a glass of wine.
I wanna call my somm in here. DLynn.
Come on on in, D.
My God. What are we drinking today, D.?
-There you go. Mr. Hart, Mr. Cole World.
-How ya doin', brother? -Very good, very good.
A beautiful 2020 Syrah... -Not 2020.
-...Edna Valley. -Not Edna Valley.
-Classic, beautiful, less than 100 cases produced.
-Less than 100. -Fantastic wine. May I?
-Yes, please, please. Only the best for Cole World.
-Absolutely.
-That's what I -- you already know how we do.
-Yes, indeed. Grab a taste of that.
I'll pour Mr. Cole... -Oohh!
-Let me go ahead. Yeah. You know. See, J. --
J. is one of the people that actually lives life
actually on the very clean side,
and I said, "I'm not gonna force you to do anything,
but you still need to look the part."
So that man's got some water. -Man!
That's really thoughtful. I appreciate that, man.
-Absolutely, man. Come on, man, toast.
-Is -- can you actually -- it's water, right?
-That's water. -Then we gotta do it
long distance, really, 'cause to actually clink water,
I feel like it's -- it's, like I said --
-Do you know something I don't know?
-No, it's considered bad luck to cheers --
-Who told you that? -This was a long time ago.
-I've been doing it for a long time,
so shit gonna change in my life, tell me now.
-Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
-Goddamn it! -I don't even know.
It's just one of the things, I'm like, I'd rather not.
But we'll do an air drink. -Air, air.
-Love, brother. Thank you for having me, man.
-Um, J., man, God, where do I start?
First I want to start by saying congrats.
I've known you for a long time. -Thank you, bro.
-A long fucking time, man. I remember first meeting you.
I was in New York. I had a comedy show.
-Do you remember this? Oh. -I remember.
Had a comedy show in New York. I was performing in the round.
-Yep. You were at the Westbury --
it was like the Westbury Theatre.
-You are 1,000% right. -Yep.
-You came to the show. -You were doing, like,
multiple nights at that point. -Yeah. I did about six shows.
-Yes, bro. -Six shows there.
-Crazy. -You came to the show.
It was dope because this was one of, like, my --
-I bought tickets, by the way.
-Here's why it was dope.
This was, like, one of my first real moments of, like,
getting the support from my generation's, like, next.
Like, we're a part of the same timestamp.
We were starting at the same point.
We were all bubbling at the same point.
And that show you came to,
I remember you left and it was dope as fuck.
I was, like, yo, man. That was dope he came through.
He had tickets. He supported.
And it was big because I was, like, damn, man,
they starting to fuck with me.
-Mm-hmm. -That was, like, my --
my little inkling of they're starting to fuck with me.
Like, he came out to see -- support -- it was a big deal.
-Yes. -We talked in the back.
We shook hands. You showed me love.
I showed the same amount of love back.
And that J. Cole then is nowhere near the J. Cole of now.
Right? The J. Cole now is dope as fuck
because you're just at a different place in your life.
And I don't want to start from the beginning.
I want to start, like, with now.
You are at such a --
it seems to be a place of peace and a place of calm, right?
And at some point, something happened somewhere,
some way, some what, to make you make the decision to go,
"I'm gonna flip things around and I'm gonna protect mine
and really focus on me."
-Mm-hmm. -What was that moment for you?
-Oh, it was...
probably about, like, two albums in.
I was two albums in, but I was probably, like,
four or five projects in. -Okay.
-And it was, like, just noticing that on paper.
You know, on paper I --
on paper, if I would have showed
the 14-year-old version of me what I had accomplished,
if I could go back in time and be, like,
"Bro, look what you just did,"
the 14-year-old version of me would be, like --
like, "What?!" Like, "I knew it!"
You know what I mean? But the actual --
at that time, 28-year-old version,
or 29-year-old version was not feeling like a --
was not feeling good. You know what I mean?
He was not feeling -- wasn't enough appreciation
and wasn't enough, like, recognition
of what I was actually doing.
-Okay. -Too much emphasis and focus
on where I wasn't yet. -Okay.
-And that hadn't been me up until that point.
So that sparked -- it probably was, like, a couple years --
-Is that you? You're saying, like,
the focus on what you were doing
and the emphasis from the outside --
was that you putting pressure on yourself?
Is that you not being happy with not hearing
certain things about the work you're doing?
-100%. -Okay. All right.
-It was ego-driven, 100%. -Got it. Got it.
-It was like there was a nugget somebody dropped for me.
They didn't know what I was going through, necessarily,
but maybe they saw something.
But it sparked --
it sparked a practice that would lead me
to exactly what you started the conversation with,
which was, like, just a more, like, peaceful place in my life
and more of a "phew, phew!" You know what I mean?
And that was a -- at the time, I had --
and at this time, it's the team.
The team ain't right. You know what I mean?
At that time, it was ego-driven.
Like, you're not getting the things that you want.
And this time, for me, it was, like, "Oh, the Grammys.
They not fucking with me.
Oh, the such and such magazine, or this --
why I'm not up here?" You know what I mean?
This was quietly what was happening in my mind.
So I got with this new publicist, Kathryn Frazier,
and she's amazing woman,
and, you know, in the midst of us talking,
we would have conversations outside of, like, just career,
and she was just telling me how she was into meditation.
She was into, like, transcendental meditation.
Boom, boom. And I had flirted with it,
like, in my early 20s, like, practiced it a little bit.
Just didn't really know what I was doing,
but had a nice little experience.
But I didn't dive into it. But mind you,
her telling me about that was coinciding with me
realizing, yo, something's going on, bro.
You gotta -- so I had set rules for myself.
One was, well, bro, you can't go on social media no more.
Like, we're from the first generation of, like,
entertainers, celebrities, whatever
where it's like, bro, you could literally, at any minute,
see what somebody is saying about you, know what I mean?
And, like, there was nobody to tell you --
like, cigarettes.
When the whole world for decades was smoking cigarettes,
there wasn't anybody loudly saying, like,
"That's gonna kill you in about --
you probably shouldn't do that."
Took a long time for somebody to realize how harmful this was.
And similarly, we are in a generation
where our entertainers,
our basketball players, our boom-boom,
like, no one was there, and, even now,
nobody's there to be, like, "Don't Google yourself.
Don't search your name or boom-boom."
So I say all that to say I had set some rules for myself,
some baseline rules. Like, yo, don't --
don't go on Twitter, don't read your replies.
Do not search your name. Boom, boom.
That's rule number one. Number two --
when you're creating, you gotta create from a pure place only.
Like, there was a rule I set for myself,
like, everything has to only be
truly what you feel in your heart, boom-boom.
-This is, of course, coming because you saw --
you saw yourself do the opposite.
-Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. -You saw yourself dive deep
into the space of social media. I'm searching.
I see what they're saying. I'm getting angry.
-[ Laughing ] Oh, yeah! -I'm getting irritated.
-Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. -How to fuck with the fucked.
-For sure. -Okay. Now I'm creating
and my creating is coming from --
-Yes, bro! -This is infusing
and influencing my creative. -100%.
-Bitch, I see what you said. -Yeah.
-Like, it's now becoming a part of you.
-It's the nastiest place to ever do some
artful shit and some pure -- it's just like,
yo, you can't -- it's like
you have to really leave all room, I feel like,
in the creative process, for, like, for God.
You know what I mean? And the minute you start, like,
thinking about what somebody else
is gonna think about it -- boom, boom, boom --
I caught myself in that space for a moment.
And it was so unfamiliar to me
'cause that's never how I used to work.
-Mm-hmm. -And so to get up out of that,
I had to set these ground rules. -Was it a struggle, though?
Was it an easy transition?
-It was easy -- -Or was it a battle?
-No, it was a --
I mean, I'm not gonna say it was, like --
'cause you realize those things are addictions.
Right? Those things become addictions.
Like, social media becomes an addiction.
So, yeah, in a sense, it's like
you have to check yourself
and tell yourself, like, "Don't do that."
-Mm-hmm. -You know what I mean?
Like, or catch yourself. "No, get off of there."
But every time you -- every time I feel like...
Every time you say no, like, while battling,
like, an addiction, it's like you get stronger.
You add a pebble to your, like, to your strength.
You know what I mean? -I like that.
-You know what I mean? It's, like, yo,
a "no" is a powerful thing and you get stronger,
and the other thing gets just a little more weaker.
So -- But so while I set these ground rules for myself,
she mentioned the meditation, and she had explained to me,
like, how her experience with it and how life-changing it was
and how clear she felt -- boom, boom.
So I was, like, you know what? I was out in L.A.
Like, I had came out here to work on the album.
I had the album title.
It was "2014 Forest Hills Drive."
I had it all mapped out.
I knew what the album was gonna be called.
I knew I was gonna buy the house back.
It all felt like it was, like, supposed to happen.
And I started adding that.
By the time five months hit,
I would have these revelations and clarity about my life,
and I would see what was actually happening in my life
and where I was headed. You know what I mean?
-I love the space that you're at, man.
Let's stop right here for a second.
Guys, we're gonna take a quick break.
We gotta pay some bills.
We'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" after this.
**
-Ah, welcome back, guys.
We are still here with J. Cole,
and this is "Hart to Heart." And, J., dude,
I gotta let you pick right back up where you left off
'cause you were in such a good place.
So the album comes out. I mean, look,
you get to this space of amazing clarity.
Holy shit, you drop this album. Life-changing album.
After going through the meditation process,
the first proof of concept is
the product that was developed during or while or after.
So the lightbulb now that goes off is what?
-Nah, I just -- my take was,
this is what it feels like when you -- when you
are really in tune with yourself,
really in tune with God,
when the noise can't enter.
You know what I mean? This is what it feels like.
And even to this day, bro, it's like --
it's funny 'cause I find myself talking about meditation a lot,
but it's not like --
but it's only because in conversation,
I meet people and they're telling me about,
like, things that I went through.
And I'm just telling them, like, "This is what I did."
But the interesting thing is it's, like,
it got me to a place where
my lowest point is so much higher
than what my lowest point used to be.
But I will say I'm not a person
that currently, to this day,
just wakes up and meditates every day.
I think about, like, Rick Rubin.
When I watch these Rick Rubin interviews
and he just feels like just a sensei master.
And I just imagine him waking up every day
and just meditating three times a day.
And maybe he doesn't, but it's my impression of him.
And I realized that, like, oh, man,
people probably have that impression about me,
because I've spoken about it.
They probably think I'm on some, like...
But the truth is, no. It's like,
I use meditation now as, like --
I say as, like, an emergency "break glass" thing
where it's like, if I'm feeling high anxiety,
you know what I mean, for whatever is happening
in my life, which is not often right now,
but if something's coming up where it's like, "Phew,
I'm feeling anxiety about this," like, this is --
then I'll use it as, like,
"Let me get back to a balanced state."
But I'm not currently in a space where it's, like,
I'm meditating every day, boom-boom-boom. No.
I feel like that year or two-year stretch
that I was on it, it gave me a nice, like,
boost in my life to where it's, like,
now I'm kind of coasting. And I do, though, believe that,
even in this state right now that I'm in,
if I meditated every day, like, I feel like I'd be a superhero.
You know what I mean? 'Cause I feel like everything
would just -- phew, phew! -- off me like water.
-It's repelling. -Yes, bro. Yes.
-When you say anxiety, do you feel like --
is the anxiety from the business?
Is the anxiety from the pressure
that you sometimes put on yourself?
Is the anxiety from household?
Family? Wife? Where's the anxiety from?
-Like, when I say emergency "break glass" situation,
like, there was a time when
my first child was gonna be born,
and the anxiety I felt was more like --
it wasn't, like, "Oh, I'm about to have a kid."
But it was probably the culmination of all these things,
but I was also finishing an album at that time.
We was doing the classes, trying to learn about, like,
the birthing process and all of this.
Boom, boom, boom. So it was, like --
it was one of those moments when everything was
kind of, like, a lot was happening,
and that was, like, a moment where I just needed to --
you know, before one of the classes that we had,
which I loved those classes that we took.
It was called Hypnobabies.
I recommend that for anybody that's --
-Hypno? -Hypnobabies.
-Wow. Okay. -Basically, it's like
a birthing class that -- you know, first of all,
I think the first, most important thing it does
is it prepares both parents for the realities or,
like, the information that you might need
to arm yourself when you go into the hospital --
-I didn't know that shit until my babies came out.
Was a shit show around here.
-It had me fully prepared.
-Yeah. I wasn't. -Yeah.
-I just said, "I'll figure it out."
They came out. A lot of shit happened fast, too.
-It worked though, right?
-I was at the doctor all the time.
The baby coughing -- "Doc, what's happening?"
"It's just a cough." "All right."
-No, no, no, no. Not that, though. Not that.
-I'm telling you it was for me. -Okay. All right, man.
-I was that guy. -No, me too, though, by the way.
This is just... -Everything scared me.
-...the birthing process. After that baby's out,
they don't got nothing for you. -Okay. This was like...
-They have nothing to offer you. -...going through the course
of the nine months and, you know --
-When that water breaks,
this is what you need to look out for.
-Were you there when the water broke?
-Yeah! -I was downstairs.
-Oh, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
No, no, no, I didn't see it like a movie, by the way.
-Okay. I was about to say -- -No, no, no.
It wasn't no movie moment. -It broke! Ah, shit!
-No, no, no. -Got you!
-No. It was uneventful. It's not like the movies.
You know, in the movies you make it feel like it's a --
like, some sort of, like, "Pssshhh!"
-Yeah. Then you gotta, "I'll get the car!"
-No. It wasn't like that. -"I'll get the car!
You got the bag?"
"It's already packed by the door!"
-Yeah. None of that. -None of that shit happened.
-No, no, no. -I was really downstairs.
"Babe, my water broke!" "Huh?!
Huh?!" Yeah. That's where I was. I love that you are --
that you are this deep into it, though.
I love, like, that you are this focused.
I love that you are this in tune.
Amazing! But we gotta take a beat.
We gotta take a beat because I gotta pay bills.
Guys, we'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart"
and J. Cole after this.
**
-And we are back. This is still "Hart to Heart."
And that is still J. Cole.
Um, what I want to say now, though, that I really love is,
like, there was a time when you weren't getting your just due.
There was a time where the conversation
attached to your name wasn't what you wanted it to be,
wasn't what you thought it should be.
And then there's a shift, there's a narrative,
there's a change, and J. Cole, as a rapper,
is mentioned as an artist,
is mentioned as one of our best rappers of our time.
Your cult following is like none other.
Your fans are bigger than just, like, fans.
Like, the idea of you releasing, the idea of you showing up,
they come out in droves.
What is your feeling now with your place in the business,
with your place in the conversation?
Like, have you taken that in completely?
And do you now realize what you mean to rap
and where you stand in rap?
-I'm not gonna say I realize it 'cause
I'm more disconnected than I was before.
-Mm-hmm. -But I'm appreciative
and I'm grateful.
-And disconnected because you don't want that to sway a...
anticipated feeling, like, expectation.
In other words, like, you're disconnected where it's like,
"Okay, I'll get used to that and I expect that.
And then when I don't hear it,
it could act as a trigger of old."
So the disconnection allows you to be removed from that.
-I think it's just more of a natural disconnection
of, man, I'm -- I'm fulfilled. -Got it.
-I'm fulfilled with the experience I've had,
what I've done, what I'm doing.
I'm fulfilled with the reaction that I get.
You know what I mean? So it's, like, a --
when you ask, like, what do I feel about my place,
it's grateful.
And where you, like --
'cause when I was younger, it was all about,
"Man, I want -- when that go down" --
I don't know if it's like this for comedy.
-"When that go down, I want to be on the list.
I want to be at the top, boom, boom.
Know what I mean? -Yes.
-And as I'm older now, it's like that feeling --
are those always still gonna be there?
It's much more peaceful.
It's much more, like, understanding.
Like, yo, back then there was --
there was a thought that you could be unanimous,
that you could, hands down, unanimous.
Everybody would know.
In your mind -- in my mind, back in the day,
I'm like, everybody know Tupac is the best rapper, right?
Or then, at certain points, like, everybody know
Jay-Z is the best rapper, right?
There was a feeling that this was attainable.
But then you realize that, like, actually, no.
Those guys never had it either.
You know what I mean? It's not actually possible.
-It's not. -You know, even in comedy,
somebody gonna say Eddie Murphy is the greatest of all time.
Somebody gonna say, "What? Dave Chappelle, Richard Pryor.
He ain't better than Richard Pryor."
"Oh, Richard Pryor ain't got nothing on X, Y, Z."
So it's, like, --
once I realized that that wasn't possible, it --
or maybe the other thing came first.
Maybe, like, I just got comfortable
in who I was and what I was doing.
And then I realized, like, oh, that wasn't attainable either.
But, anyways, that why I said it's, like, yo, man,
I'm just happy to be talkin', man.
Y'all, I appreciate that y'all talking about it, but --
-But you're in the conversation. -Well, I'm in the conversation.
You put me over there? Cool. You put me up there?
That's amazing. -You know where I got to,
or where I'm at now? I love the fact
that I've been able to do the things that I've done.
There was a moment where I was doing sitcoms.
Right? These are, like, pilots.
So every sitcom you're doing, you want this to get picked up.
Right? There was a moment where I did so many pilots
that didn't get picked up.
One day -- I'll never forget this shit.
I was home and I was, like, "It's me."
-[ Laughs ]
-I said, "These shows got one common denominator,
and it's me."
[ Both laugh ]
These people don't want me to make it.
I was, like -- I was on number nine.
And I remember John Stamos --
This is a true story. Shout out to John Stamos.
John Stamos -- he had a show called "Jake in Progress."
"Jake in Progress" was on the air.
Right? They were going into, like, another season.
This is, like, the show's doing well.
John Stamos is, like, "I really like this guy Kevin Hart."
They had a part.
Man, they signed me on to do five episodes.
I did two episodes and the show got cancelled.
And I said, "Fuck this shit!
Fuck this shit, man."
-[ Laughs ]
-"It's me, man!"
I remember, literally, having that conversation.
And I had to check myself and stay, like --
stay on the course.
But what I eventually realized,
and I was, like, man, like, ultimately you start competing
with the versions of your success
that you're trying to achieve again.
-Hoo! -And when you are shooting
out that spaceship and you start going real fast,
as you keep going up,
you're using your rise as your landmark.
And some of those things you're not gonna
be able to do again. -That's a bar.
-And once I got that down, I think the pressure --
the pressure started to be removed a little bit
because it was box office -- I put out a movie.
It's gotta go number one. -Mm-hmm.
-If we don't go to number one, then it's over.
Fuck. Okay. If I'm going on tour.
If I don't sell out, it's done. I gotta sell out.
If I don't sell out on a tour, what am I gonna do now?
Fuck. I gotta got out and promote.
I gotta promote the movies. I gotta promote the tour.
I gotta do it at the highest level.
If I don't do it at the highest level, what's gonna happen?
I gotta make sure I'm in front of the people.
Like, I started to become a fucking computer,
and then, after that, I settled down.
-Mm-hmm. -And I don't --
I don't think I've reached the place of solace
that you're talking about.
Like, hearing you talk, like, literally you notice
I was listening more than I was talking
because I haven't done that. I haven't tried it.
I've heard about it a lot, but what you're talking about
is just finding that thing that makes you go,
"I'm good and I'm clear.
This noise don't matter." Right?
And I think I still let some noise in.
You've also, dude,
you've made sure your personal life has been just that.
It's your personal life. Right?
I mean, the idea of family, the idea of building home,
home town. Right? "This is where I'm from.
This is where I'm true to."
That has been intentional.
That acts as an example to people like me
who have been an open book,
who has forever been an open book.
Right? How much does your family appreciate you
for that level of commitment?
Like, is that something that's noticed,
or is it not even discussed?
-Nah. It's not discussed. I think...
it's just done out of -- you know what I mean?
It's just out of protection where it's like,
"Yo, that's it, bro." It's like, "Bro, this thing
over here is sacred." You know what I mean?
So it's like, I don't need no other...
-I love that. -...outside...
opinions, voices, boom-boom. No. I'm good.
-I love how you have navigated that.
I love how when you're gone, you're gone.
And that's something that I'm envious of.
Right? Because, you know, I'm the opposite.
I'm in your face. I'm I'm work. I'm business.
I'm 100% on all the time.
The one of just the family time, gonna step away or not now --
I don't have those off buttons
to where they don't come off like an asshole.
Like, when I'm saying, "Yo, I don't want to be bothered,"
it comes off like an asshole.
It's, like, what? You!
But you don't move like that,
so people more say what's up and they understand.
-Yeah. That's true. -And it don't hurt that you
fucking 6'20".
Like, you ain't a little dude.
They come up to me, these motherfuckers
want to touch my neck, fuckin' feel my face.
"What up, Kev?" "Bitch, don't touch my face."
I had to tell somebody that before.
Motherfucker touched my cheek, man.
I'm, like, "Bitch, don't touch my face."
I was by myself so I didn't say "bitch,"
but I definitely was a little offended
that he rubbed my fucking cheek. -That's crazy.
-Guys, we're gonna take a quick break.
We'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" after this.
**
-We're back. This is still "Hart to Heart,"
and that's J. Cole.
Let's go back into you and your loves, your hobbies.
Basketball. -Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
-What is it, J.? -I mean, you know what it is.
-I know what it is.
Is it the idea of, "I want to be in the NBA"?
Is it, "Basketball is forever my happy, will be my happy"?
What is basketball to you?
-Well, I mean, it's...
maybe a first love. You know?
I mean, I never took it as serious as I took music.
Like, I didn't -- I did at one point,
but I took music first. I did the work in music first.
I did the work in basketball too late.
I didn't know. I didn't have anybody telling me
when was a kid, "Bro, you're trash.
You should probably work a little harder."
I didn't know I was trash. That was the problem
with basketball. But I did love it so much.
-You see my high school tape? I didn't know either
till they showed that tape. -Oh, I did see that!
-Did you see my high school tape?
-Yo! That was crazy!
-Yeah, I thought I was good until --
-They showed the lowlights, bro.
-Ain't that a bitch? -Yeah. It was crazy.
-Put out all my fuckin' low points.
Didn't put a jump shot in there or nothin'.
-I knew you could hoop, though. -Not according to that video.
-I know, I know. -Thanks, Coach Jones,
son of a bitch. I ain't never seen a more
hurtful compilation in my goddamn life.
Been bad, real bad.
But you did -- late bloomer you may have been,
but at some point in time you had to put a commitment into it
for you to go and pursue it.
-Basically, I think I was always a --
like, I was always highly competitive with it and I was --
I had potential.
I was good, but I was like untapped potential.
And I always -- the minute I signed my deal,
I promise you -- this is how crazy I am --
I'm like, the minute I signed my deal, I was 24.
I was doing the math in my mind, like, all right.
"If I could pop off in the next two years, I'll still be 26.
Then I could probably really start training,
go play overseas." I was already trying to see
how I could make my way back into
a professional basketball space, like --
and never had any reason to really think that.
But, in my heart, I always thought, like, yo.
If I could see myself
being one of those dudes that went to a school,
walked on, rode the bench for two, three years,
but his senior year he got good enough to,
like, get the coach's trust and get a little bit of clout,
took it overseas -- boom, boom, boom.
So I was doing the math. All of that to say,
basketball for me, "A," is just a love.
I play it, like, just regardless, consistently.
But it's also a vessel for growth and getting better.
I love being able to put in work
and see the results. You know what I mean?
I love being able to --
like, I love knowing that, right now, my game
is miles beyond what it was four years ago,
because I've been really training.
I love to feel the growth, and I love my --
I had to restructure my whole jump shot.
So one is that.
And then, three, it is also a place
where I could allow myself to set an un--
super unrealistic goal in everybody else's eyes,
and maybe even in my eyes at some point,
but be, like, I don't care.
I want to do this. You know what I mean?
So it's, like, I need --
I thrive off of missions. You know what I mean?
I thrive off of, like --
-I mean, that's an accomplishment, though.
-For sure. -That's a major accomplishment.
They don't let me play. Yeah. They don't let me play.
-Yeah, they do, bro. Come on, man.
-No, no. I don't -- I don't play.
-If you come and ask, they gonna let you play.
-Yeah. I don't -- I'm being honest with you.
It ain't that. I played one pickup game
and I felt they were too hard on me.
-They were trying to prove a point?
-Well, just little shit was happening.
It was like, "Kev, you gotta fight through that pick."
And I was like, "Bitch, you don't think I'm trying?
You don't think I tried to do that?"
You know, they throw me a jump shot. I'm open.
I miss. "Kev, you gotta hit that."
So you think I missed on purpose?
It was a bunch of that shit where
you think I'm out here fucking up...
-On purpose. -...on purpose.
You don't think I'm giving it my all?
I'm taking these sneaks off right now.
I ain't been back since. Now, I work out.
I do the workouts with them.
That's where I shine there.
We could do workouts all day, but actually
getting on the court and playing the game again?
-Yeah. -I'm done with that.
I don't want to do that. -Really?
-Yeah. No, no. -I don't believe that, bro.
-No, my fear is getting hurt. -Okay. There we go.
I feel that. -My fear is getting hurt.
-It ain't worth it. That shit sit you down
for too long. -Yeah. Not like that.
It's too much. It's too much.
Like, you really into it. I don't have that.
I don't have that for somebody to set a pick on me
and not tell me it's coming.
Like, I don't -- and, "Oh, Kev. Yo, you gotta look up."
No, bitch, just don't do that to me.
Like, I'm not there. Or foul me hard.
Like, I'm not -- I quit. -It ain't that serious.
-That's why I stopped boxing.
I was boxing for a minute. -Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
-I was really boxing for a minute.
-Yeah. That's right. -Motherfucker tapped me.
Tapped me a couple of times. Lights changed in that bitch.
I said, "Never again." -Yeah.
-You know who else I sparred with
that tapped me up a little bit? Usher. Man, Usher was hard.
-Really? -Usher got hands.
Usher got fuckin' hands. You fuck with Usher if you want.
People out there, I'm telling you right now,
fuck with Usher if you want. Usher got hands.
-That's crazy. -And he dance.
All that little shit -- all that?
Yeah, all this shit here, you know,
he think there's music playing.
Usher got fuckin' hands. -Hits hard.
-But Usher made me better, though.
Me and Usher were just fuckin' around in Atlanta
and he helped me out, but I was taking it serious for a minute.
That was my basketball.
Because I felt like you can always get better.
And I did get good. I just stopped sparring.
-I respect that. -I didn't want to spar anymore.
Um, guys, we're gonna take a quick break.
We'll be back with more "Hart to Heart" and J. Cole,
a.k.a. Cole World, after this.
**
-Welcome back to "Hart to Heart."
This is still J. Cole,
and the conversation is getting better.
Let's talk about the artists today.
Right? A lot of artists are out.
New ones that are part of our generation that have grown.
What is your mindset with the state of rap now?
-I think it's fire.
It's a whole different ball game.
You know what I mean? Like, a whole different crop
of young superstars and styles.
You know what I mean?
I think, to me, the --
I've been feeling like this for, like, maybe a year or two.
It's, like, I hate to say it, almost,
'cause it sound like -- almost like pandering.
But I really do think, like, man,
there's a lot of fire female rappers.
And it's, like, they -- I feel like they doing --
-Doesn't sound like pandering. It's the truth.
-Yeah, I feel like they doing some of the most exciting --
commercially, they're doing some of the most exciting --
they're giving us a lot of fire moments.
You know what I mean? I feel like that's something
that wasn't around when we -- -The volume was never --
-It was never like that. You always had one --
a Lil' Kim... -Eve, Lil' Kim, Foxy.
-But there was always one -- there can never be more
than one, almost, it felt like. Now it's, like, bro,
we're gettin' moments and moments and moments.
I think that's hard.
-I just love to hear you say that, too.
I mean, you know, I know that there's a conversation,
of course, attached to female rappers, from female rappers,
of just, like, wanting the support from many.
And there's a thing of, like, "Well, you know, we are saying
the same things that men saying. We don't want the feedback or --
you know, to receive backlash
given that we're embracing the craft."
So to hear you embrace what they're doing,
I know, probably means the world to them.
And, honestly, just to be current and see that --
like, that's something that, not being in the business,
that I see. What about male?
Where you at with the males that are out there?
-Hard. -It's fuckin' a good time.
-Mm-hmm. -And are you in --
I guess you'd say, are you in a space
where you have acted as a voice, mentoring?
Are you available? Not available?
-I'm available. Like, I made the decision,
like, maybe -- I don't know.
I don't know how long ago it was now,
but it was some years ago where I was, like --
'cause when I came in, I was very much, like...
I was so competitive, it was, like,
everything was close quarter. I'm, like,
we're not friends, so it's, like, you know what I mean?
I'm not gonna sit here and fake it, boom-boom.
I was very much on my own,
trying to get to where I was trying to go.
And I realized -- I was, like, "Oh."
I turn around. I was, like, "Oh, wait!"
Like, because I started thinking about the end.
I started thinking about a day when it's, like, bruh,
like I love doing this now, but I don't know if I want to --
I don't know if I want to be doing this forever.
You know what I mean? So the thought
of an ending started coming in my mind.
So then the thought was, yo,
if you were to end and this was to be your last album,
this would be your last boom-boom, like,
who did you work with?
Who did you form a bond with?
Who did you have a lasting memory with?
And that, like, kind of woke me up
where it was, like, bro, like, you been too closed off.
So I purposely just started opening myself up
to when I meet somebody,
you could have just came out, boom-boom,
I meet with you, we have a good conversation,
"Bro, take my line." Boom, boom.
"Hit me."
So it's, like, I've been that person
way more over the past few years.
"Yo, take my line. Hit me. Reach out." Boom, boom.
So I've had great moments with artists.
-And up-and-coming. I mean, it was dope --
there was something -- I think it's the small things
that become the biggest, right,
that show that you're in tune, more importantly,
with understanding the hustle, understanding
what an opportunity looks and feels like.
And sometimes being a part of that springboard,
launch pad, or whatever, speaks more volume
than the money or financial backing.
It's the effort of support.
It's the idea being present with the now.
And what have you learned business-wise,
based off of where you were and where you now are?
-I think I was doing this pretty early on.
I'm not like a business -- I'm not gonna lie.
Like, I don't view myself as, like, a business-savvy person,
a businessman, necessarily.
I think I would be capable
if I had more time to, like, just focus on that
or just if I cared to. You know what I mean?
But I think the thing that I did
that worked out for me best was I just stayed patient
and I never took the --
you know, they dangle the carrot in front of your face.
You know what I mean? Or whatever the thing is.
Like, I never took the --
-Never went after the shiny object.
-Exactly. Meaning, like, I just always felt like --
I was always hesitant to do what was being offered.
You know what I mean? Although it might --
you know, for instance, I think, in rap --
or maybe it's music, period --
but, like, you have a successful album,
they want to renegotiate right away.
And the artist is, like, "Yeah, I'll do that,"
'cause you're gonna get another million.
Boom, boom. They want to renegotiate,
but it's, like, they're gonna tack on
how many albums for that.
So it's, like -- I was, like, oh,
I got these successful albums, I'm gonna chill.
I'm not gonna just renegotiate. I'm good on that. Boom, boom.
And the longer I waited,
the better my leverage played out for me when it came time.
You know? 'Cause, like, now --
and I still apply that to this day.
I'm, like, I'm very slow to do those types of deals
'cause I'm, like, "Yo, I don't know yet.
Let me feel this out." You know what I mean?
Let me take a little more time. And the more time you take,
the more the truth starts to show itself.
You know what I mean? It's, like, so
I can't really sit here like some mogul
and give business advice
'cause I don't think I run, like, the best business.
I'm grateful to have great people around me,
where it's like, my money good. Boom, boom.
I mean, I'm smart with my money. You know what I mean?
Like, I always -- and that just comes from fear.
It's like, I don't never, ever want to be broke again.
So I'm slow to, like --
-Frugal? Or just mindful? Which one?
-What's the difference? -Well, frugal means
you don't spend shit 'cause you're a cheap ass.
Mindful means, yeah, I'll splurge.
I'll treat myself. There's things that I do.
-No, no. Yeah. I would definitely say mindful
because I'll -- if it's the right thing,
if it's a vacation, you know what I mean,
family vacation -- boom, boom -- I'm gonna spend.
You know what I mean? If it's a --
no, I'm not afraid to spend,
but I'm mindful, where it's, like --
yeah, I think mindful is the word.
You know what I mean? And it helps that it's like
I don't -- I'm not -- I don't really --
like, I'm a hard person to get a gift for because I don't --
it's not like I have everything.
"I got every car." Boom, boom.
It's, like, if you got me a car, I would be, like,
"Oh, man, he got me a car." You know what I mean?
Like, "He don't know I don't care about cars."
-Don't really care about cars. -Yeah! Like, oh, man.
You know what I mean? Like, "Oh, you got me a watch.
Like, damn, this is an expensive watch. I appreciate it."
-Just gonna put it up. -Yeah.
In my heart, I'm like, "Bro."
So it helps that I don't really --
That allows me to go a little harder over here.
You know what I mean? -Yeah. I remember I caught you
with the socks. You just had the --
remember you had the socks out of the pack.
And I was like, "J., where -- there they go.
Goddamn. Goddamn." -He was on me.
You know, I think you all the -- -"Goddamn."
-I wear these socks -- these, like, yellow-toe socks, bruh.
I just had to take them off to keep it real, bro.
Like, we was shooting a video.
Kevin seen my socks, and he was like --
I remember you was like,
"You know there's better socks, right?"
-I remember I had assumed --
I looked at you because I was, like, "You know that..."
-You know there's a higher level of socks.
-"...you can get a better quality sock than that."
Like, I know where that sock is from.
You were like, "I like these." You just kept --
I remember you kept doing this --
"I like these."
-[ Laughs ] -I was like...
"Just so I know, those are the ones that are six in a pack,
right?" You was like, "Think so."
-Yeah. -What do you spend it on?
What's a splurge? Okay. A vacation? What is the --
-That's probably my highest. -Is that it?
-Ah...yeah. -Probably got, like,
a stupid video game setup or some shit like that.
-No, no, no. But I'm about to get that.
I just got into the VR -- the VR joints.
-I can see. I can see... -Whoo! I'm gonna set that up.
-...go over to your house, you got a room.
"Kev, put these on." It's like a suit. What else?
There's gotta be something. What's the thing?
-Um...
Like, on a -- I mean, on a consistent basis?
Or, like, I built a studio in the crib,
but that was -- you know what I mean?
-That's good. -I've got a gym at the crib.
-That's good. All right.
So those are, like, personal-growth spaces
in both of them, things like that.
You're investing in the things
where you can get a return out of.
The studio in the house is dope.
It's like, whenever I want to go down, I can go down.
I'm in the comfort of my home.
-Yeah. -Gym in the house --
I can go work out whenever I want.
-A basketball court.
-A basketball court! Okay. That's dope.
-Where I can just hoop anytime. -It's your love.
-I ain't gotta drive to the Lifetime Fitness.
I ain't gotta, boom-boom, ask somebody for a court.
Exactly. -Okay. That makes sense.
-Then vacations. I can't really sit here and --
-I like that. That makes sense. For the space of a --
-I wish I had something for you, though.
I wish I had something dope.
-I like that you don't, though.
I like that you are you. -Sure.
-I'm the jackass with the stupid hobbies
and the things like that that I've got into.
Let's stop right here for a second.
We'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart"
and J. Cole after this.
**
-Welcome back.
This is "Hart to Heart" and I'm Kevin Hart.
That's J. Cole.
Do you want to do anything else at this point in your life?
I mean, music has provided you with such an opportunity,
such a door to success.
Is there anything else that J. Cole wants to do?
-Yeah. I mean, I have things in my mind
that it's, like, you know, I would like to get to that.
And that's why -- but I can't do it without putting music
all the way down first, which is, like,
I feel like I've got some unchecked boxes -- boom, boom.
But the minute I check these boxes,
then it's, like, yes, I can get to this.
And film, in some space, is included in that.
Not acting, necessarily, 'cause
I just never felt like that was me,
although what I do love about acting
and what has made me consider it is how,
similar to basketball or similar to golf or whatever,
it's, like, yo, you're gonna --
you might have a little bit of natural knack for it,
but you're gonna be --
you're gonna start here, very low.
And only through practice and discipline
and work will you get here.
And that interests me about acting, like, the craft of it.
But I never necessarily saw myself as that.
But the film world, in general, I love.
I love the film space. I love behind the camera.
I love the editing room. You know what I mean?
-By the way, I saw that when we did the video.
Like, you -- -Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
-And you were directing and you were very much in tune
with the shots, what you wanted, how we want it to look.
I mean, that's the artistry. Like, as an artist --
and what you'll find, even in the space of art, like,
when you just start to think about artistry,
people's vision, how the vision came to life,
what they want people to take with them from the vision,
what it means, all of that shit start to play into a major part.
So I can definitely see it. I got one more big one for you.
A collab that you have not done yet,
that you need to do before it's all said and done.
-Nobody. I'm gonna tell you the truth.
I've never, and I still don't to this day,
look at stuff like that.
"Man, I always wanted to get a song with such and such,
and I never did." Like, it just --
Even in the past, I remember it was like a J. --
a J. feature, and --
and the energy of that was coming --
I felt like it was -- I felt people wanted that.
I felt my friends wanted that -- boom, boom.
But when I actually bust down, like, who I am as a person,
I love to keep my heroes over there.
-Mm-hmm. -I don't need to come in --
I don't need to get the song with you.
I just need to enjoy what you did for me
and what you do for me over there.
I don't need -- like, there's no validating thing
that's gonna be, like, "Ah, I got a song with such."
Nah. I wanna do what I'm doing. Boom, boom.
So it's like, I'm open for whatever.
You know what I mean? But at the same time,
I'm never -- like, I don't have a list of...
-Of people that you have to work with
before it's all said and done. -Nah. Nope.
-To make it, this is the way that I know that what I did...
-Yep. -...was the dopest shit ever.
'Cause look who came and fucked with me along the way.
I don't need that. -Yep.
-That's not what I'm looking for.
When you say the word "heroes," who acts
as some of those heroes? -Oh, man.
I got a list of people that are why I'm here.
They don't even know it. You know what I mean?
And they -- but they are,
you know, like the north stars that I was following.
So it's like, obviously there was Pac when I was --
forever, but one of the earliest ones,
Jay, Nas, Eminem, Andre 3000... -Wow!
-...Lil Wayne. -Mm-hmm.
-You know, and there's -- and these are, like,
the big bullets, but then you also got, like --
I had a Royce da 5'9 moment. You know what I mean?
I had Canibus moments. I had...
-Wow! -...boom-boom moments.
But in terms of, like, the people
that really fuel in terms of, like, my ambition and showing me
what's possible, like, the first names I named, like,
those were the highest ones.
So it's, like, you know,
these were the people that, like, yo,
I'm trying to get up there. You know what I mean?
And, like, in terms of skill, in terms of success,
all of that, like, they fueled it.
-I want to say this, man, before we wrap up.
And, like I told you, it's about flowers for me.
It's about taking the time to make sure that the people
that I have the opportunity to sit across from understood
not only just what I personally felt about them --
their success, their now, their why.
It's big for other people to see people in our position
embrace one another. Right?
Dude, I think it's dope as fuck
that I'm a part of your generation.
I think it's dope as fuck that my journey aligns with yours
and that we're able to say we started from back here
and that we now got to here. -Mm-hmm.
-And then being here, we're discussing it.
Like, we're having open dialogue about it.
I love that you can stand up here
and say, "I had to find myself, re-create myself, recalibrate,
make changes, ultimately to make the best decisions for me
to be the best person I am.
And I shut this off, shut that off."
Like, those words that you're saying,
people will hear, people will hold on to,
and some people do need to hear that shit.
Some people do need to know that those decisions
are extremely important and impactful to your future,
especially when you're trying to get to a certain place.
Making that right or left determines
if you'll get there or not.
And you've got to be a hell of a strong-minded individual
to make the decision to do so, to self-check yourself.
And you've not only done that,
you've done it in a major way, man.
I'm proud of you, brother. -Thank you, brother.
-I love you genuine -- like, genuinely.
-Thank you, brother, -Love, appreciate, admire you
for the person that you are.
I hope you guys make the right decision,
and that's to really, truly listen
to a lot of the things that were said.
A lot of gems were dropped today.
That's what the show's about.
Ladies and gentlemen, the legend, J. Cole.
-My boy. Thank you, bro. -Look, how good is this?
-Ooh-wee!
-Love you, man. -Thank you, brother.
You're a fucking pro, man. Do we sit or do we stand?
-No, that's it. It's over. Thanks for coming.
Let's get you the fuck up out of here.
[ Speaks indistinctly ]
**