-Today's guest has been making us laugh
with his standup routines for more than 30 years.
That's right, I said it.
He also makes us question authority,
the big, tough issues,
and get pissed off once in a while.
His podcast, "Club Random," is a huge hit and his show,
"Real Time," has been on air for a remarkable 21 seasons!
That's right, 21 seasons.
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Bill Maher.
-Hey!
-Bill. How are you, man? -Kevin.
-Good to see you, sir. -Great to see you.
-Great to be seen, man. I appreciate you for coming on.
-Thank you for having me. I'm so flattered
that you have my picture up there in your home.
-Well, that's what sells the set, right?
I have to make the set make sense, so if it's my --
-It's beautiful. You're a wine --
obviously a wine lover.
-I actually do. You a wine guy?
-No, I hate wine, always did.
Stains your teeth, makes your breath stink.
It's not a good high.
-Okay, well, that's -- -If I get high,
I want to get high seriously and wine is not that.
-Well, okay, Bill, I feel like we just started off
by taking an immediate... -I'm just giving you the --
-...an immediate left turn. -You asked me a question.
I'm gonna give you the honest answer.
I've never been a wine fan.
-Yeah, well, you went right for the hard drug.
I felt like we could have warmed up a little bit, Bill.
-No, not with --
-Wine is just something that's easy.
Can I bring in my som? Get in here, Dee.
-No. -Let me get my som
because these conversations happen over a glass of wine.
But if you don't want it, I get it.
I'm gonna have a little taste.
-Look, I'm all for everyone doing what makes them feel good.
-Well, obviously not. You just tried to fucking
get me stoned on television, Bill.
-No. You asked me what I thought of wine.
I told you what I thought of it.
What I've never understood is why people sometimes say
when you're out with them like, "Have a drink with me."
"Nah, I don't want one." "Oh, come on."
Like, "What do you care if I have a drink?"
-Yeah, that is true.
-"You want a drink, you have a drink."
-I can do it by myself. -Right.
-I'm not that guy. I'm not the enforcer,
which is why I'm still gonna drink one by myself.
-I want you to. -Okay. Give me a glass
that stain my teeth and make my breath stink, please.
What are we drinking? -Mr. Hart.
-Yeah.
-Mr. Maher, California sunshine Sonoma Coast exquisite.
I mean, Pliny the Elder wrote about this, 2018 Pinot Noir.
-Do you have water, though? -Of course I do, Mr. Maher.
-We do have water for you.
-Oh, that's water? -Yes.
-Wow. Even your water looks like wine.
-Well, I put it in a wine bottle.
-What are you, Jesus?
-Yes.
This is why -- -Thank you very much.
-You're very welcome. -This is why I wanted you.
This is why I wanted you on the show.
-Oh, good. I want you, too, badly.
-Thank you, Dee. -You're very welcome. Enjoy.
-Alright, Bill.
-Now do you swirl that around in your mouth
and do you do others of the -- -I do the whole thing.
-Other affected things? -Yes, I do the whole thing.
-Let's see a little bit.
-I'm a swirl guy. I'm this guy.
-Oh, look at that. -I smell it.
I do all this stuff. -And it makes a difference?
-Well, it depends on the type of wine and the type of year.
-Really? -Yes, it's all about the legs.
When you do this, you want to put it down
and you want to see what type of legs it has on it.
It tells you the texture, the body of the wine.
If it's good wine, that texture is present.
-Oh, please.
-And you can see it on the glass, right?
-Oh, for fuck's sake. Ooh. Are we allowed to say that?
-No, I'm gonna have Bill Maher on here and not let you cuss.
-Why would I do that? -I don't know, I'm just saying.
It's probably Boone's Farm. -Well --
Second reference of Boone's Farm on "Hart to Heart"
and both by White men.
I am extremely pumped up about that
because I was raised on Boone's Farm, man.
-Raised on it? -Yes, that's how I came up.
-Well, we should call child services.
It's a little late, but if you were raised on it,
that's not a good thing.
-Bill? -Yes.
-This show is about giving flowers.
This show is about appreciation,
celebration of those that I admire
and those I just simply want to know more about.
You are a person that has had an extreme amount of success
in doing a thing that I love.
You started off, of course, in standup comedy.
Standup comedy has taken you to a place where you've been
able to go through tremendous amount of doors.
And those doors have led you to the place of being an author,
a host, I mean, a journalist in so many different aspects,
and now a businessman, as well.
We're gonna tap into all of that.
-Wow. -Like comedy.
Fuck, man, like, you started out as standup.
-I still do standup.
-You -- But I didn't know that you opened for Diana Ross.
This was like -- -Wow.
-Yeah, I didn't know that.
-Diana Ross? What year were you born?
-I mean, I was born in '79. That's what I was gonna ask.
-It was 3 years later. You were 3.
-Get the fuck out of here. -Yeah.
-Wow. -So we are really going back.
-We're really going back.
And that point in your career, I mean --
-I was like, you know, just a tadpole.
I mean, I had done, like, one "Tonight Show"
and I guess she saw it and liked it.
You know, she needed an opening act.
You know, you have to understand.
Vegas in the '80s
is what I called the dead-ball era of Vegas
because it was, like, after the Rat Pack.
We were too -- We weren't around for that.
-I know exactly what the Rat Pack is, though, of course.
-Yeah, I know, but that was the heyday of, you know,
Sinatra and Sammy and swinging.
-They made Vegas a thing. -And ring a ding ding.
Yes, I mean, okay, you know, broads
and drinking, and, you know. -Cigarettes.
-A lot of cigarettes. -Suits with no ties.
-Right, and threats from mafia people.
It was wonderful. It was great.
The Rat Pack were like -- They were still there,
but they were, you know...
Sinatra couldn't remember the words.
He had like -- -At the tail end of it.
The Rat Pack has no tail anymore.
-Very much so.
-Okay, so at that point, were you pretty much --
Was Vegas the work space for you...
-No, I was 26.
-...or was it just dealing with Diana?
So you were going in and out.
-The only place I had ever worked before
were little comedy clubs. -Yeah.
-And the places we worked on the road, you know,
so to be in Vegas was, like, a giant thing for me.
And, of course, it was terrible because no one knew who I was.
I was just there to waste 20 minutes
while the crowd filed in before --
Diana Ross was the biggest star in that era of anybody.
-Absolutely, yeah.
-I think she was making something like $400,000 a week.
-At that time, which is astronomical.
-And I got two of it.
-Two? -Two grand.
-Two grand. By the way, not bad, though.
-No. -Still great money.
-It was so far and above where any salary I had ever gotten.
-Yes, yes.
-Trust me, I was thrilled to be in Vegas.
I was thrilled to even meet Diana Ross,
let alone open for her, and I was thrilled to get the money.
But, yes, it -- The job itself was terrible.
I wasn't very good. The crowd was old.
I'm telling you, it wasn't a fun place, Vegas, then.
-What was the standup comedy breaking point for you?
What was the thing that acted as your break?
-I mean, there's no single thing
because I think it's an evolution.
Some people, it is.
They do, like, a "Tonight Show" episode
and then suddenly they got a sitcom.
I mean, that happened to people like Roseanne,
maybe Robin Williams.
I don't remember, but, yeah, there are people like that.
-Was that your era? Is that your generation
of comedy -- Roseanne, Robin Williams?
-I was a little younger than -- Well, Roseanne, maybe.
That was -- she was also on the "Tonight Show" in the '80s
when I was doing that.
I started with guys like Seinfeld
and Richard Belzer, and those were the New York guys.
-Okay.
-Eddie Murphy was at the Comic Strip.
There was three clubs. Yeah.
-What a class already --
Seinfeld, Eddie Murphy, you, Belzer.
I mean, that's already a dope-ass class of comedy.
-Oh, yeah, and lots of other great ones I'm not mentioning,
and, you know, we've lost a lot recently.
-Yeah. -I mean, Richard Belzer,
who was kind of my mentor when I started.
You know, he was just very --
-What made him your mentor? How did he --
-Because he -- Well, he was just a bad man, you know.
I mean, he was just -- He'd been a heroin addict,
you know, and he would --
-Richard Belzer was -- He did some shit?
-Yeah, and he, you know, he dressed all in black.
First of all, he was older.
He was, like, 10, 12, 15 years older, so I was just 22.
I was just starting and, like, he was just in that little room,
that Catch a Rising Star was the club that he worked at,
and in that little room, he owned --
-Isn't it crazy that, like, when you talk standup comedy,
you talk about New York.
You know, throughout the years,
I mean, you're talking about the '80s of being in Vegas.
You're talking about that time of just embracing
what was the world and culture of standup comedy.
Like, all of these things, like, have so much history
embedded in them that, like, as you're talking about this,
I'm even remembering for me, like, "Holy shit."
-Yeah, where did you start? -I started in Philadelphia,
but New York is basically my home for standup comedy.
I came up through the New York circuit.
-Well, how long did it take you
before you felt, like, you were good?
-I probably started getting good 2004, 2003, 2004.
I was extremely hacky before then,
but started to put together what was considered
to be a set, right?
-Right, and so to your question, it's an evolution.
-Absolutely.
-You know. It doesn't happen overnight
and it's just always growing.
And, I mean, I've done 12 HBO specials, you know.
I just did one last year and I'm gonna do
another one next year or whenever.
It's still the most fun I can have.
-Bill, listen, we are having a good conversation.
I got to pause for one second because we got to pay bills.
Ladies and gentlemen, we'll be right back
with more "Hart to Heart" and Bill Maher after this.
-Welcome back. We're still here. This is still Bill Maher.
How old are you now, Bill? -67.
-67 and still operating, still a machine,
and still, like, churning.
-Well, you know, this country is very unhealthy,
so they have this idea that you're decrepit if you're 50,
which I always thought, too.
Because I -- when I was -- -Until you got 50.
-What? -Until you got 50.
-No, no. I'm still not decrepit.
That's what I'm saying is, like, when I was younger,
because of the way people act,
and I would see the way they act,
and the way they regard -- And it's a very ageist country.
I would have thought, "Oh, when you hit this age,
you'll just be very different."
And the truth is there's almost nothing different about my life.
-Mm-hmm.
-Nothing. -Nothing at all.
-Well, first of all, I never got married or had kids,
so that changes you a lot.
I mean, that's a big, you know, obviously --
-Intentional or just never happened?
-Oh, very intentional. -Very intentional, okay.
-No, Kevin, no one ever wanted to marry me.
I could never find anyone willing to do that.
-Well, you have some people that are like,
"Things never worked out.
I've always found myself on the back side."
Or you're a person that just says,
"I choose the single life. It's much better for me."
-Exactly. That's what I choose. -Okay.
-So, like, when you have kids, I feel like you sort of
in a way trade your life for theirs.
I mean, that is the deal. -Absolutely.
-If you're gonna be a good parent, anyway.
-Absolutely. -And, you know, I may be older,
but, like, I am the latest version of me.
There is no 2.0. -Okay.
-I feel like that keeps me young.
And, again, I can just basically do the things
I've always liked to do.
Now, I guess some people would say that's not mature.
I don't see it that way.
I don't think maturity has anything to do with whether
you're a, you know, get married or have kids,
or it's about something that goes on in your mind.
And what can I say?
The things I found that I like to do, I still like to do
and I still do those same things.
So 67, it sounds old even to me,
and yet until I start acting differently or slow down --
I mean, I'm working more than I ever have.
-I like that you're even saying is that,
you know, you have a choice and when you do embrace the idea
and the world of marriage, you're choosing to share.
You're saying, like, basically,
"I choose myself, like, and choosing myself,
I love the idea of what I do and I don't want to, like --"
-Yeah, I mean, I definitely can share and join
and all that good share-joining stuff without being married.
-Yeah. -I just I never got it,
but I totally understand
that it's the most personal decision a person makes.
I totally get it that, for some people,
that's what works for them. For many people.
I mean, I know people who, like, would be lost
without their wife.
Okay, one guy, but that guy is real.
I swear he's real.
Well, alright, he's also militia,
but, you know, as an ideal, it's out there.
No, I mean, some people really do.
-Were you ever close?
-Yes, of course. -Okay.
-When I was young and, you know,
I would say dumb because, I mean,
the reasons why I was about to do it were not good reasons,
why I was about to enter into it.
The thought of being that person now seems just from a,
you know, it just, like, living on Jupiter.
It's just another person.
Because one reason when people say,
"Why did you never get married,"
that I always give is, "Why would I invite
the federal and state government into my love life?"
Because nothing is as -- shall we say -- imponderable
and also unpredictable as love life.
Things change.
And then I'm involved with the government that way.
I mean, it has to be a legal thing as opposed to,
"Oh, it didn't work out or we just feel differently.
We stopped loving each other."
-Yeah, there's no easy departure from it.
-Right. I don't understand why people voluntarily enter
into that situation,
especially now that we live in a day and age
where you can have children without being married
and no one looks askance upon this.
I mean, it's just a choice.
-Well, I think it's all about, once again, the choice.
You just said it.
It's all about the choice that one is making
and that choice is to say, "I choose you," right?
The idea of choosing someone and loving the choice
is what people are gravitating towards.
-Well, but again, you can make that choice
without making the legal commitment.
It's just I feel like that is just, like, saying,
"I choose you and I got this here.
Even if I wanted to get out of this now,
I'm locked in here now." You know what I mean?
-No, I think -- Listen, I don't disagree with the stance
and, you know, it's being spoken from a guy
who embraces the idea and world of single.
As a guy who now embraces the world of marriage,
I do now, at the age 43, better see the value
in marriage than I once did... -Yeah.
-...at the age 22 or 30, right?
Like, it's as you grow up and grow older,
it's, for me, it's about what you're building
with the person, the foundation.
As a guy that didn't come from a family
with mother and dad together, family dinners,
changing that narrative, creating new ground.
And having a consistency of family bond
and what we do and what we build,
that's what I gravitate towards.
That's where I personally find the joy
and happiness in it for a very long time.
-The thing you said before
about you didn't have it growing up.
-Yes. -That I've heard a lot
and that really resonates with me,
not with my life. I was extremely lucky.
I had two wonderful parents and they stayed together.
It was "Leave It to Beaver" land where I grew up.
-Okay. -For good and bad.
But this makes a lot of sense.
When you don't have it growing up --
-What do you mean by for good and bad? What does that mean?
-Well, I mean, I grew up in the '60s in,
you know, an all-White town. -Got you.
-And that's just in New Jersey.
I mean, it was just the way things were.
-Okay.
-You know. I mean, a lot of it was not correct.
-Got you.
-But that's the -- You know, progress is an arc.
-Okay.
-You know, and I was a kid. I didn't do it.
But I'm just saying, in my town, it was just, like,
when I look back at how innocent it was,
I mean, there was, like, no drugs in the school.
Really no crime.
You know, hardly any divorce.
A number of the fathers did kill themselves in my town.
-Okay. I mean, we just took another turn.
Bill's really good at this.
We'll be on a path and that car just, woof.
-But that's true. There was, like,
"Oh, they found him in the swimming pool,"
you know, kind of thing.
But in a time when you weren't, like,
it was not acceptable to have --
to divorce, that was sort of the way out.
-That was the out. -Yeah, that was the out.
-"I'm sick of this shit. I'm gonna end it all."
Okay. -"I'm in the pool."
-Alright, well, I can see --
Now I'm starting to understand more about your take
and understanding for your choice.
-No, but having had that very stable, lucky upbringing,
it kind of gives me the luxury to then not want to re-create
that kind of stability later in my life.
-Yeah, you have an example of it.
-Yeah, right.
-You have an example that played
live and in front of you.
-Whereas when you became of age, you still needed it.
Because you didn't get it as a child.
-Yes, and I did not understand what it meant to have it,
which is why I think my first round of it,
I fucked up, and going into the second round of it,
I didn't get it right automatically.
And it's something that had to become a learned trait.
You are a product of your environment to a certain degree
and it's not until you... -Oh, very much.
-...realize that and make the choices
to fix and correct that it will be.
So, for me, I didn't have that same org chart.
-Right.
-I didn't have that same want and goal
because of my foundation that I came up in.
So I think that's why I'm a little more true to it
and a little more focused now more than I've ever been
because I understand the bigger picture, overall.
-You do seem focused.
-Yes, right now, I will say 1,000%, more than that.
-And a workaholic.
-Bill, let me hold you up one quick second
while we go to commercial.
Guys, we'll be back with more "Hart to Heart" after this.
-Welcome back. We're still here. This is still Bill Maher.
Bill, alright, so let's finish. You were saying?
-Like, I'm asking myself, "Why are you doing this?"
-Yeah. Why am I or why are you?
-Why are you? I mean, you've got --
-Well, I think for the same reason you are.
-No, no. I'm not a big movie star.
-Yeah. -I don't have --
I'm not on every commercial. -Okay. Yeah.
-You know, I mean, you just have a lot more going on.
-Yes. -Like, why you need this, too?
I mean, you're good at it, and it's fun,
and I'm flattered to be here, and I've seen it before,
and a lot of the people you've had on
were really good people, so I'm glad to be part of that.
-I'm inspired by what I've seen,
yourself included, and the examples, right?
Because we're comedians, we have the opportunity
to be a multi-hyphenate, right? -Right.
-So as you talk about still doing shows to date,
you're also an author.
You have your own talk show.
We have a lot of people don't and that's an understanding
for rapport and back and forth.
I now have an opportunity to sit across from people
and talk in a manner that's separate
from what I do as a standup comic.
So I like the portfolio.
I like to say at the end of the day,
I've checked all these boxes,
not because I had to but because I wanted to.
And it becomes a résumé
and a book of chapters as to what stage is in.
-Yeah, and it's fun. -Absolutely.
-I mean, the --
One of the main reasons I started my podcast,
"Club Random," is, I mean, I have a show.
I mean, I have a show on HBO for, as you said, 21 --
-21 seasons, man. -Well, 21 years.
We're in our 21st year. It's amazing.
-That's insane. -And before that,
I had "Politically Incorrect" for nine years,
so I've been on TV for 30 years straight.
I don't need another job, but it's interesting.
People like us -- I mean, I've seen you.
I admire you a lot. I enjoyed everything you've ever done.
I had Bryan Cranston on my podcast recently.
-Such a good guy. -And I was going on and on
about how great you were. -Such a good guy.
-Yeah, such a great guy and that's such a great movie
that you did with him.
-He made me better.
-Well, I don't know better, but different,
and, yes, I would -- I mean, I was going on and on
how great you were in that movie.
Because I said, you know, we've seen him a lot as,
you know, kind of the Kevin Hart character.
And whoever directed that movie or let him...
-Neil Burger.
-...take it in that direction, it just showed
that you could take it to this very realistic level.
-Thank you.
-A really good acting job. -Thank you, man.
-And he said -- You're making sequel.
-Yeah.
-I said, "What happens in this one, you stand up?"
-[ Laughing ] -But...
So...
But the point being
that people like us --
Oh, good, I got you. -It was good. It was good.
That was good. Go ahead. Go ahead.
-When -- What do we --
What makes us, like, sit down and talk to each other?
Work. -Yeah.
-Because it's part of work. -Yeah.
-I mean, we probably wouldn't just come here
and do this even though we both like each other
and would be interested in doing that,
but we're busy. We got the --
But now that it's a job, now that it's work --
-You embrace the idea of work. Absolutely.
-And then we just -- And then we can do
what we would actually just be doing.
-Yes.
-Which is, I mean, actually I'd be smoking a joint
if we were doing this at "Club Random"
and you must do "Club Random" someday.
-I will do "Club Random." -So then I can do my drug...
-Well, let me tell you why -- -...and I'll get you your --
We can bring in your whole sommelier.
-I will. I will fucking bring my wine.
-Bring the whole ship in.
-I'm gonna bring my wine, but let me tell you
why I like your idea behind your podcast, right?
Because you stepped away from the political side.
-Yeah. -And you said, "That's here,
but here, I actually just want to have regular talks
and regular conversation."
When did you make the choice, right?
Because in standup, you have comedians that make the choice
to take the turn and go political
and start to address real issues, real problems.
When was it that you made the decision to say,
"You know what, man? Being funny is great,
but I'm gonna shift the narrative
and start to address my funny with a clever approach
to talking about the problems that I see in the country."
-Right. Well, again, like the other thing,
it's an evolution that I almost couldn't stop from happening
because my father was in news.
My father was a radio newsman in the day
when every news station in the radio
had news at the top of the hour.
So that's what he did for a living.
-Okay.
-So my parents were interested in the news.
I heard about it at home.
We weren't like a lot of families where they don't --
they didn't pay attention. They don't know.
-Yeah, they didn't give a shit. -They don't give a shit.
Politics wasn't what was talked about.
So it was always in my ear.
And my father was a good living-room comedian,
which is something a lot of comedians will tell you.
-Wow.
-That it kind of gestates over one generation,
that the parent, one or maybe both parents --
My mother was witty, too -- show you that in the home.
Again, the background of what you have at home.
-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
-And so, like, the idea that I would go into comedy
with a bent toward not just news
but stuff that was in the culture,
something that was meaty and important
and something you could talk about and chew on,
that has some intellectual nutrition to it,
as opposed to just trivia, which you can --
That can be genius comedy, too, but it's just not my style.
That was always I feel like inevitable
given what was in my home.
Now, the downside of it for me is that people see me,
especially as a standup, as, like, this political comedian.
And that's not really -- When you see me do standup,
you don't really have to know a hell of a lot about politics.
Of course, I'm going to make it --
That's what my show is, also.
I'm doing this for the people
who don't follow it that closely...
-Yeah.
-...who want someone to interpret for them
and, you know, give an opinion of it
and make it funny and make it palatable.
-Yeah.
-A little sugar to help the medicine go down.
So, you know, when you come to see me do standup,
yes, you don't have to be up on the news
and I'm not just political.
I talk about my personal life and everything in my standup.
That's what we love to do.
-That's what you're supposed to do.
-That's standup.
-I mean, that's what makes us not only relatable,
but that's what gives us the legs, right?
-Right. -You're able to continue
year after year after year
because you're talking about your growth, your trajectory.
-But my real -- my main job --
I was kidding with you before about my real job,
the one I'm gonna get back to today as soon as I leave here,
and I work on all week, is "Real Time" on HBO.
That, you know -- It's a once-a-week show
on a premier cable network.
I have to make that show as good as I can
and once a week for one hour.
I have one hour to try to tell people what happened that week
that I think is important and give them my slant on it
and make it so entertaining they can't turn that dial.
So that's my main thing.
And then, you know, standup is just my --
is, like, my mistress.
It's way more fun because I'm not married to her.
-Who acted as inspiration for you, right?
Were there -- -Comics?
-Yes, because when you --
I'm thinking about George Carlin as you're talking, right?
-Yep, absolutely.
-You know, George Carlin was a guy --
-Carlin -- For comics in my generation,
it was Carlin and Klein, Robert Klein.
Those were -- I mean, Johnny Carson also
was, you know, a guy who I watched every single night,
sneaking watching because he was on late
and I was not supposed to be up at 11:30.
But that's who I wanted to be. He was handsome.
He was debonair. He was successful.
It looked like the girls liked him.
And he was kind of mischievous.
And he was just -- I mean, it's hard to imagine this now,
but that show, I mean,
a show at 11:30 at night, I think at its peak
had something like 17 million viewers.
-Absolutely. -I mean --
-Absolutely. -Shows in prime time now
sometimes don't get a million. -Yeah.
-Everything is so -- -That's how big that show was.
-Yeah. -Yeah.
-Huge, and he dispatched all the people
who came up against him.
That was also something he did where he was just bad, you know.
Everybody tried to beat Johnny and he just fucking --
-He destroyed them. -Every single one of them.
-The biggest thing to hit late-night television.
-Yeah. -I mean, he's --
-So, I mean, that was just the era I grew up in
and, you know, those are the --
I wanted to be some combination of, I think,
Robert Klein, George Carlin, Johnny Carson.
And you can still see me doing Johnny Carson
when I do a monologue every Friday night on "Real Time,"
which is, you know, news that, you know,
that those are the jokes you just got that day.
That's not, like, my act. -Mm-hmm.
-Your act is a lot more passionate and practiced
and, you know, you just kind of riff.
But a monologue is something different
and that's what Johnny did every night.
He kind of -- He didn't invent it,
but he certainly perfected that in late-night television.
So that version of me is there.
And then when I do standup, it's much more Klein and Carlin.
-How often are you going out now,
when you talk about standup?
-I don't think I've ever not been out more --
Less than say 25 weekends a year.
-That's so dope.
-But just weekends. -That's so dope.
-Because I have this other, you know, my real job.
-That happens on Fridays.
-But I just go out on Saturday.
I do a show Saturday. I do a show Sunday.
I go home after the show Sunday
and I go back to my real work on Monday.
-That's so dope.
I love that you're still committed to the craft.
I love that. -Yes. I love it.
-That you're still committed to the craft.
-But because there's nothing like it,
especially in this day and age where everything is --
gets more and more politically correct,
which is something I've been fighting for 30 years.
-I was gonna, I mean, this was the next stance,
the next place that I wanted to take you to.
You've had a real voice.
-But, yeah, but standup is the last place
where, I mean, there is just the most freedom.
I mean, look, if you do a show like Jimmy Kimmel
or Jimmy Fallon, great guys, great shows,
but you have to be much more careful.
You know, we're not gonna throw "F" bombs around there...
-Mm-hmm. -...and it's -- Okay.
Then my show on HBO, much looser,
and that's why I love HBO, and they've been great.
But still, there's a dimension and it's always been my goal
to get to that ultimate free dimension of just s--
And that's the podcast and that is standup comedy.
-That's what it does for you.
-The standup audience paying good money for a hard ticket.
They are not a politically correct crowd.
They're my people.
They want to see me do what I do and I want to do it for them.
And they don't want me to be any way pulling any punches,
not that I really do on "Real Time," but it is different.
I'm sitting sometimes -- I mean,
Bernie Sanders was there the other night with me.
I mean, he's a senator.
You just -- You're not gonna be quite as loose as you and I are.
-Yeah. Do you find yourself
when you are with those people that are a little more reserved,
do you find yourself going even harder to try to get a reaction,
trying to get... -No, no.
-...a piece of real out of them, or do you navigate --
-That's not the way to do it,
by going harder at the senators and governors.
And you just have to accept
if somebody is a politician, for example --
I mean, politician means full of shit, to a degree.
I mean, that's the job. I don't blame it all on them.
The voters only can accept so much truth,
so politicians would like to be more truthful.
You know, some of them are bullshitters from the beginning
and they're full of crap, everything down the line.
But some of them would like to be more truthful.
They can't because people don't accept it,
because people want to hear what they want to hear.
And they don't want to be told, for example,
that we can't cut your taxes
and also give you more entitlements.
-Mm-hmm.
-They want to hear that. -Mm-hmm.
-They want to hear that it's magic.
-Mm-hmm. I mean, the truth sometimes is hard to receive.
-Right, we can have the Swedish welfare system
on the Arizona tax base.
That's what they want.
So politicians lie, and, yes, it is my job
to hold their feet to the fire. And by the way,
this is why a lot of politicians don't do my show.
-I was gonna say, like... -I'm not like the other shows.
-...have you seen a decline in who wants to participate
versus who doesn't or do you like the space of growth
throughout the years? -It was always this.
I mean, we just are never gonna get everybody.
There are a lot of politicians who just want to be
in a very safe space
and there are places they can go.
-Okay. -That's not me.
I mean, if I feel that way, I'll say that,
but I don't always feel that way.
So when you come on my show,
I mean, I'm sure my producers probably tell them.
"Just tell him the truth and you'll be fine.
But if you start bullshitting, yes,
you're gonna get a reaction from him that you may not like."
And so that is not for everybody
and there are lots of famous politicians.
I never had Bill or Hillary Clinton
on my show and they're Democrats.
You know, lots of people won't do it
because they don't want to stand up to that.
But otherwise, I feel like I wouldn't be doing my job.
That's my job.
-Bill, let me hold you up one quick second
while we go to commercial.
Guys, we'll be back with more "Hart to Heart" after this.
-Welcome back to "Hart to Heart."
I'm still sitting here and I'm talking to Bill Maher.
Bill, in real time, yes, pun intended,
in you doing your job, what do you think you've gotten
the biggest, like, reaction or pushback?
Like, have things ever presented itself
to get out of hand on the show in ways to where producers
and you couldn't navigate in the waters?
Like, have things ever reached a high level of conflict for you?
-You know, they're trying to get rid of me every single week.
-What do you mean by that? Are you talking about...
-The woke. -...people outside of --
-The woke... -Okay.
-...are trying to kill me every week and I just --
-You feel like you're at war -- you're at war with the woke.
-Well, I don't want to be at war with anybody,
but I'm gonna say what I feel about certain issues
and there are many things where the woke, in my view,
are not expanding on liberalism.
I'm an old-school liberalist.
I would say that there's four tribes in the country
right now politically.
You have Trumpers way on the right
and you have the wokers way on the left.
And in the middle, you have most people
who are old-school conservatives or old-school liberals.
I feel like I'm mostly old-school liberal,
but the woke believe in many things that are, again,
they don't build on liberalism. They're the opposite of --
Liberalism to me is striving for a color-blind society.
-Mm-hmm. That's not where the woke are.
They're "Race has to be the most important thing
in every single issue." -Mm-hmm.
-And we have to see it always.
Again, you may believe that, but it's not liberalism.
It's something different.
I mean, I remember when I used to do the show
that HBO did for the homeless, "Comic Relief."
You remember that show that we did charity?
-Okay, yeah, I remember "Comic Relief," yeah.
-And back then, we were like,
"For God sakes, in the name of compassion as liberals,
can we help these people get off the street?"
That's not where they are now with the homeless.
It's, "How dare you move them off the street?
That's their right to be there." Really?
That's what we want to do with the homeless,
make sure they stay on the street?
You know, I mean, I could give you 10 examples
of that same kind of thing. Freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech used to be the number-one liberal issue.
We owned the First Amendment
the way the conservatives owned the Second.
Well, the woke certainly don't even believe
in freedom of speech. -Yeah.
-They believe that feelings
are more important than free speech.
-You know what was crazy?
I mean, for me, politics are very tricky.
I've never participated in the world of politics
because there's such a divide
and I feel like there is no right.
It's a constant argument of my feeling versus yours.
And sometimes because of that argument --
-Well, facts should get involved.
-Facts, you can say -- Let's say facts and feelings,
right? It's whatever the --
-The problem is nowadays, we live in a country
where people have their own facts.
We don't even agree with the facts.
-Let's say whatever the through line for that thing is
that makes it make sense.
For me, where I find the biggest frustration
is sometimes we skip what could be the solving solution
by constantly arguing over our ideas of the problem.
And because of our ideas and differences
of the "problems," we never get to a place of solution.
We never get to the true place of change.
So regardless of what your issue is,
when you're skipping over the idea of change,
or the idea of help, or the idea of conflict resolution --
And it's because of my stance
and what I'm saying is right and what you're saying is wrong,
I just see that as, like, two rams butting heads all day.
-Yeah, it's worse than ever,
and people have to get past this idea
that they can own the other side, you know.
-Mm-hmm. -If you look on the Internet
and what people write, it's just all this,
"So-and-so destroyed so-and-so.
We're gonna own --" You're not gonna own anybody.
You're not gonna destroy anybody.
You can't do that. The country's pretty evenly divided.
-Mm-hmm.
-And the half that you don't like are not going anywhere.
They're not self-deporting, okay?
This country has to find a way to live with assholes
you can't stand on both sides.
-By the way, I don't --
Like, that's called everyday life, you know.
-Yeah, it is, exactly.
-You're not going to like everyone.
-No.
-It doesn't mean that you're supposed to hate them, either.
You don't have to... -Exactly.
-...see the same POV
or be on the same, like, eye line.
So the idea of just being cohesive and being together
in this environment is one we all should adapt to.
But it's so hard for some because of the idea of control.
"I want to control what men or women can do"
and that to me is where the fights start.
-It comes from a place of control.
-Right.
-When it's coming from a place of power
and everybody wants that power,
once again, you're not getting to the solution.
-You seem like you are a control freak.
I am a control freak.
-I'm not a control freak. -No?
-No. I've gotten to a point now
where I allow the people with me under the umbrella
of what we've created to help make that thing better.
I now trust and empower those that I've hired to help me.
Where I once wanted to control,
where I once wanted to be responsible
and be the person that did,
I realized I wasn't getting as far as I should
because I'm trying to wear every hat.
So naturally, things aren't going to find the highest levels
of success because I'm getting in my own way.
So I took a back step, I got out of my own way,
and then I saw things start to flourish more.
I saw new opportunities present themselves
and it all came from me embracing the work
and the ideas and the world of opportunities
that people were bringing to the table.
-So what's your day like? I imagine you get up very early.
-I'm up at 5:00 A.M. -Wow.
-5:00 A.M. every day. -I'm just going to bed.
-At 5:00 A.M.? -Well, no. For a long --
Much of my life, I went to bed probably 3:00, 4:00 A.M.
Last five years or so, I --
-You're staying up that late after smoking weed?
-Yeah. -Jesus Christ, Bill.
-Weed keeps me up.
-What kind of weed are you smoking?
-Good. Very good. -Okay. Alright. Alright.
-But if you can get me better... -No, I don't have --
I don't even smoke weed like that. I'm not a weed head.
-No, exactly. Because you're a control freak.
-No, because I -- Fucking weed.
You know how you said this makes your breath stink?
Well, show me a weed smoker with good breath
and I'll show you a lie.
All their breath smell like ass. I've never, like, talked
to a consistent weed smoker with good breath.
It's bad.
And you talking about wine drinkers' teeth.
What about a weed smoker's teeth?
-Okay, why are you taking such a --
-Because we're in a battle of fucking war right now.
This is politics at an all-time level.
Wine! Let's go, wine!
-You take such a proprietary interest in wine.
Like, I'm not insulting you.
I just -- Wine. I mean, you -- What are you --
-I took it to a battle. Weed against wine.
No, I'm joking.
-I know.
-But, for me, the day to day and me wanting to be productive,
that's the only reason why I... -But why -- Now, 5:00 A.M.
Is that because you want to work out?
-Get up, work out.
-Is that the first thing you do? -First thing.
-Every day? -Every day.
-That's too much. -Why?
-It just is. -Why?
-You should not work out every day.
-Why?
-Because from what I've been told
by the people who I've -- -Who told you this?
-My trainers, my doctors.
-Who the fuck are they?
-They're very smart people on this subject.
-Says who? -I -- Okay, look.
Drink wine and work out every day.
I don't give a damn what you do,
but I'm telling you, at some point in your life --
By the way, you know who understands this?
-Who? -People like Tom Brady.
-Okay.
-Understands this, totally on that page.
-Okay. -We work out too much.
We tax our bodies too much. -You do need a break.
-Yes, you do.
-You shouldn't work out every day.
-Well, every day doesn't have to be the hardest workout.
Your workouts can be five days a week
and your Saturday and Sunday is like --
-Well, I mean, if the workout is, for example,
if it's stretching. You can do that every day.
-Yes, that's what I'm saying.
For me, it's being active. -Right.
-I like to get up and I like to be active.
I like to simply work on myself at the top of the day.
-You're on a film set, you're on location?
-I'm still working out.
-But doesn't filming sometimes start very early?
-I'm the star, so it starts when I say start.
-I heard that.
-Yeah, it start -- -That's -- Yeah.
-Yeah, the call times are set... -Really?
-...so they fit the schedule.
-There you go. That's how you do it.
-So if I want -- The call times start at 7:00, 7:30,
I'll get up at 5:00, work out.
If we're starting a little earlier, I can do a 4:30,
but I'm gonna start my day with a workout, for sure.
-Okay. -I need that.
Alright, Bill, look, let's take a quick break.
Guys, we'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart"
and Bill Maher after this.
-Welcome back to "Hart to Heart."
Bill, you don't have something that acts
as a routine that you do every day?
-Oh, I do, I work out,
but I certainly don't do it at 5:00 A.M.
-What time does your day start?
-I usually -- Well, first of all,
sleep is so important. -Okay.
-We understand that, right? -Okay.
-We don't have to argue about sleep, right?
-No. We're not arguing about sleep.
I don't sleep enough, but I understand.
-That's key. -Yes.
-You should because you don't make it up,
not that we didn't understand that sleep
wasn't important before, but they understand a lot more.
-How many hours do you get, on average?
-Well, you should get -- I mean, people differ,
but it's very rare that someone really can live
on less than eight hours.
-Wow. -Yes. And here's the thing.
The last two hours are the most important two hours.
So if you get six hours sleep and you think,
"Oh, I've gotten 75% of the sleep I need,"
you did not because you didn't get those
last two hours where all the good sleep is,
the REM sleep and the deep sleep, okay?
So my point is, I try to get up without an alarm any day.
That's why I go to bed earlier now
because it takes me longer to get that eight hours.
I mean, I have to be in bed for 10 hours
to get eight hours of sleep.
But, like, usually, I wake up around 10:30, 11:00.
-You're coming off to me like it's well-read research
and in tune.
What is it that sparked your interest
to, like, start learning all of this stuff
and, you know, basically understand
more about how the body functions
and what can better help you function
at the highest level? Did something happen?
-Being not dead. -Okay.
-Being not dead is such an important thing
when you're 67, Kevin. You will see.
-Okay. And people around you -- Were people around you --
Did people around you suffer from things, you know,
whether it was illness or diseases
from not taking care of themselves?
-Oh, well, we certainly have known,
all of us have. -Absolutely, absolutely.
-You can't get through life without knowing lots of people
who have suffered from lots of things.
-Well, that's what sparked my world of health awareness.
-Yes, oh, and look, I've had my moments
and we're not gonna go into those.
I never talk about health stuff or, you know,
I never burden the audience with any of that stuff.
-Okay.
-I never missed a show in 30 years on television
except the two that they forced me to miss
when I came down with the dreaded forever flu
even though I had no symptoms.
But, you know, I tested positive,
so they forced me to not do those.
But 30 years, never missed a show.
And there were some shows when I was not feeling well,
but, you know, the old school was there's no business
like show business. There's no business I know.
We go out there when we're feeling low.
-Yeah.
-You know, I wish we'd go back to that.
But, you know, I just think,
first of all, my views on medicine
and how Western medicine handles things are at variance
with a lot of people in the audience
because I think people are scared.
When it comes to health, they're very scared.
So what they want to believe is that the people
in the white coats
have all the answers, just do what they say.
They're doctors. They know everything.
They don't. They don't know everything.
Sometimes they don't even know more than you do.
I know they hate it when you bring in Dr. Google,
but sometimes Dr. Google,
which has the latest real research out there,
knows more than the doctor
who got out of medical school 30 years ago.
And there's no law that says he has to refresh his memory bank
or learn the new facts that come down about medicine
and it's changing every day.
So, you know, when you get sick,
what's the first thing they tell you?
Get a second opinion. -Mm-hmm.
-But what does that tell you, Kevin,
that it's an opinion and that you need another one.
-Mm-hmm. I have a question for you.
So within the world of, like,
what you're talking about, right,
and you're saying, "Here's my beliefs.
Like, these things are an opinion.
Getting a second opinion is just that. It's just an opinion.
Sometimes the research you can do will put you
in a better position to solve the problem
that you feel you have."
When somebody counters and they say,
"Well, I believe medical opinions are the way to go
and I believe that without medical opinions --"
-Which medical opinions? That's the truth.
I'm saying doctors disagree.
That's why they say get a second opinion.
They're not saying get a second opinion from the garbage man.
They're saying get a second opinion from another doctor.
So why are your doctors better than my doctors
if we're having an argument about doctors?
-Got you.
-And the truth is that because medicine is not fixed.
That's what science is.
That's why science is different from religion.
We don't have one fixed belief that we never vary from.
New information comes along and we can adapt and change.
And we've seen that just with COVID.
I mean, they told us a bunch of things about it
that weren't right. I seem to remember six months
when we were all wiping off packages
like it was a stool sample from Chernobyl.
-Mm-hmm. -Okay, that wasn't true.
They said the vaccine would stop you from getting it
or transmitting it. That wasn't true.
Okay, I'm not saying they were trying to get it wrong,
but they get a lot of shit wrong.
Just in the last couple of years,
we found out they have gotten metabolism wrong.
Metabolism is a pretty basic thing.
They've gotten depression wrong. It wasn't about the serotonin.
You know, it's evolving.
-You know what I am? I'm this guy.
I'm the guy, like, if you tell me what you just said
and I have, like, a different feeling of it,
I'm like, "Oh, that's cool."
Like, what you said makes sense for you,
but I'm still kind of just gonna -- I'm gonna do this
because I think this is just better for me.
I'm a guy that's okay with someone having a feeling
or an opinion for themselves.
I believe that, hey, man, you got one life.
How you choose to live your life
and what you choose to believe in,
it's yours, or hers, or whomever.
Mine's is mine.
So I don't really debate,
you know, the idea of your beliefs versus mine.
I don't debate religion. I don't debate medical.
Like, at the end of the day,
where I found success... -You do you, right?
-...is just by doing the thing
that I feel will best benefit me and my family
and our future world of success and opportunity.
I think sometimes there's a lot of weight
put on what we talked about earlier, which is me
and what I'm saying versus you and what you're saying.
And I don't disagree what you're saying.
I think you made some valid points.
-No, no.
-And I think that somebody else had the same
and I'm fine with either one of them,
but it's never going to change my stance.
-I'm never ever looking for a debate.
The world would be way better
if everybody would just agree with me right off.
-I do agree -- I need you to agree with me for a second
while I toss to this break. We got to pay bills.
Guys, we'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" after this.
-Welcome back, guys.
This is "Hart to Heart" and we're talking still.
So, Bill, where were we at?
-You're 43, you said?
-43. -Okay.
Look, when you're that age, you can --
even younger, of course, you can do crazy things,
not that you are abusing your body at all.
You seem very healthy.
But when you get older,
I mean, you just have to throttle back
and you're just more, like I told you before,
I do everything I always did,
but I have to be much more careful.
-Absolutely.
-I mean, I used to have 20, 30 drinks a week.
You know, it wasn't -- That was normal
and I would go out three or four nights a week.
I don't do that anymore. I mean, I could barely drink --
-No, the older you get, things start to change in conversation.
-They do change. -And the simple things.
"Hey, man, hey, let's get on the mountain bikes
and ride down the hill."
You know, well, you know, "Fuck that.
I'm not gonna do that. Let's go the other way.
I don't want to go down the hill."
-But I'm saying when --
I hope you are healthy until you're 120.
But if at some point in the future,
you find you have some medical issue
and you're not really getting satisfaction from the doctor
you're talking to, you know, just give me a ring.
-Give you a ring and see.
-And maybe I could point you in the right direction.
-Here's how different I am.
When I had to get surgery on my back and everybody --
I looked at it like jewelry for a second, you know.
Everybody had the idea of the best back surgeon
that I should go and everybody's idea.
And literally, every call I got,
"I know the best back surgeon. Trust me.
We're gonna get you out of there and we're gonna go."
And then another person would call,
"I'm gonna go and get you the best back surgeon.
This is -- Trust me, I know."
Everybody had an idea and I ended up talking to the doctor
that was there and I said, "Hey, man."
I said, "I just want to have an honest conversation with you
about your practice and your confidence in this procedure.
Like, what are the chances of this being a success?"
He said, "Kevin, this is what I do. This is my specialty.
I would not put your life in danger.
Trust me. I can do this." And I was like, "Okay."
Like for me, it was like, "Alright.
I mean, no matter what, I'm going to have to trust someone."
-Okay, I don't know what your back issue was,
but I'm wondering if you ever encountered anybody who said,
"Well, actually you don't need back surgery at all."
-No, my shit was fucked up. I broke my --
I think it was, like, my T10 to 2 or something like that.
-You broke something.
-Yeah, it was my spine was, like, fractured.
I had to get real surgery. So on spinal, like --
-How did you break your back? -I was in a car accident.
-Oh. -And back was, like, destroyed.
They said I had, like, this much of a chance to walk again.
-Wow.
You almost could have played the other part in the movie.
-Well, that's very true. I was very --
That's actually, it's dark, but it's good.
It's dark but good.
I'm all for a good comedy joke.
Good comedy is comedy. That was good.
I almost could, but I'm saying, like,
there was a conversation then about just,
"Kevin, do this or you should." And I'm just saying, like,
in that moment, I had to make a decision.
I was like, "Nah, I'm just gonna do this."
And I ended up being fine and I'm fine today.
And I just think that -- I just --
I'm not a believer in,
you know, the idea of just everybody's right.
Everybody's got the better answer.
Everybody's got the better person.
Everybody's got the better deal.
Everybody's got the better opportunity.
-Okay, that happens to you because you're a star.
-Yes. -So everybody wants
to give you the best wine, the best doctor.
-Yes, I believe, yes.
-If you smoked weed, you'd get the best weed.
You know, they just --
They're trying to curry favor that way.
I mean, that's part of being --
That is not the typical person's experience.
-I 1,000% agree.
-Right. -1,000% agree.
-But having achieved that in your life,
you should be proud of that,
that everyone is trying to lick your ass.
-Well, I don't think that's -- Another hard right, Bill.
-Not a hard right. No, no.
-Like, really, these cars, vroom, man.
-No, no. It was right on track there.
-Well, then you said, "Lick my ass."
It just went really to the right.
-You told me you didn't want to stifle me from swearing.
-Yes. No, you can say what you want.
I will say this before wrapping up, right?
Dude, you got a hard job.
You got a hard job and you've had a hard job.
And to last over, you know,
we're talking about 25 years on TV,
and not only doing what you love but doing it at a high level,
right, and embracing all the hard conversations.
-The thing I'm most proud of when people say,
"What are you most proud of?" I always say surviving.
-Yeah. -That I was able to stay on,
and by the way, not to, like, do --
start singing the song, but did it my way.
-Yeah.
-You know, it's not like I'm pulling any punches
or saying things that, you know,
just to make people happy.
I mean, I say a lot of things that people don't like,
but the bond I've always had with my audience
is that they trust that I am saying
what I truly believe about something.
That I am not going to pull my punches
and I've lost plenty of fans over the years
because I just, "Oh, that was too far.
That was too far, Bill Maher. That was this."
And then I get new ones who like that and they find
that there's not enough of that in America.
-I have watched a few through my time period
embrace politics through the comedic lens
and sit behind the desk in doing it.
And Jon Stewart, Trevor Noah,
yourself, you know, some of the ones
that have done it for a long time, in doing it,
found a way to maintain a personality that's theirs.
I respect that.
You know, can I say that I've agreed
with everything that Bill Maher has said?
No, I can't. -Yeah.
-Is my stance one to say that I should?
-That's fine. -No. That's not where I am,
but what I do embrace is entertainment
and I do know how hard it is to successfully have a TV show,
produce a TV show,
and constantly conform and adapt to the now.
I know the work that it takes for you to deliver that show
every Friday when you do it and that I respect, man.
And I also respect that you come from the same ground --
that world of standup comedy.
I do believe that we're a fraternity.
-Definitely.
-So when I get to sit across from another...
-Yeah. -...and embrace the true world
of success that you've had... -Yeah, I'm glad we did this.
-...it comes from a genuine place, man.
-I'm so glad we did this. -I'm glad that we did, too.
Ladies and gentlemen, it doesn't get better than this.
This was Bill Maher. And you know what?
Just stemming off of the idea of what his show was,
this was a real time, man, a real moment
that we both had and I thank you for that, right?
This is an unexpected conversation
where people get to see you differently.
-No, I never do anything during the week
because my show takes all of me. -I believe it.
-But I wanted to do this, so I did come here.
-I believe it. Thank you, man. -Yeah, my pleasure.
-I appreciate you doing it. -Thank you.
-It was everything that I wanted it to be plus more.
Ladies and gentlemen, Bill Maher.
This is "Hart to Heart."
Nice. So fucking easy!
This is why I do it. I do it because I love it.
What do you mean? -I know.
-Because I have a goddamn conversation with Bill Maher,
people go, "Why are they talking?"
-The same way. -Yes, come here, man. Hey.
-Let's hug it out, come on.
**