1 00:00:02,546 --> 00:00:05,298 [tense music] 2 00:00:05,382 --> 00:00:07,175 male narrator: It is incredibly rare 3 00:00:07,259 --> 00:00:09,135 for criminal defendants to take the stand. 4 00:00:09,219 --> 00:00:10,720 It's a risk very few take. 5 00:00:10,804 --> 00:00:14,683 At stake, one's freedom or even their life. 6 00:00:14,766 --> 00:00:16,768 This is Claudia Hoerig, 7 00:00:16,851 --> 00:00:18,770 wife of pilot Karl Hoerig, 8 00:00:18,853 --> 00:00:20,188 and she's charged with his murder. 9 00:00:20,313 --> 00:00:22,566 ‐ I did this. I lost my mind, 10 00:00:22,691 --> 00:00:25,151 ‐ She's decided to take that gamble. 11 00:00:25,235 --> 00:00:27,862 Will it help her convince the jury of her innocence... 12 00:00:27,946 --> 00:00:30,532 ‐ He wanted to bring a maid from Brazil, 13 00:00:30,615 --> 00:00:32,367 He said, "We're all gonna have sex." 14 00:00:32,409 --> 00:00:34,077 narrator: Or will it come back to haunt her? 15 00:00:34,202 --> 00:00:35,829 ‐ I checked for his breathing. 16 00:00:35,912 --> 00:00:37,289 He was dead. 17 00:00:37,414 --> 00:00:39,874 narrator: Take a courtside seat with a detective, 18 00:00:39,958 --> 00:00:41,626 the U. S. Marshall, 19 00:00:41,751 --> 00:00:45,046 a legal analyst who watched the trial unfold, 20 00:00:45,171 --> 00:00:46,339 and the victim's best friend, 21 00:00:46,423 --> 00:00:49,843 I'm Dan Abrams, and this is "Under Oath." 22 00:00:49,884 --> 00:00:51,011 ‐ Raise your right hand. 23 00:00:51,094 --> 00:00:52,512 Do you solemnly swear... 24 00:00:52,637 --> 00:00:54,848 ‐ I'm being honest with everything I say to you. 25 00:00:54,889 --> 00:00:56,349 ‐ Do you solemnly swear... 26 00:00:56,433 --> 00:00:57,809 ‐ The whole truth and nothing but the truth... 27 00:00:57,892 --> 00:00:59,102 ‐ I would like to testify. 28 00:00:59,227 --> 00:01:00,645 ‐ The testimony you are about to give... 29 00:01:00,729 --> 00:01:01,938 The whole truth and nothing but the truth... 30 00:01:02,063 --> 00:01:05,984 ‐ So help you God. 31 00:01:06,067 --> 00:01:08,695 ♪ ♪ 32 00:01:08,778 --> 00:01:10,864 ‐ There's always a public persona in a marriage, 33 00:01:10,947 --> 00:01:12,657 and there's always a private one. 34 00:01:12,741 --> 00:01:17,579 ‐ He had these silent tactics with me 35 00:01:17,704 --> 00:01:19,623 of not letting me sleep. 36 00:01:19,748 --> 00:01:21,124 He knew what it was doing. 37 00:01:21,249 --> 00:01:25,503 I didn't realize at the time that they were torture. 38 00:01:25,629 --> 00:01:28,131 ‐ Claudia's description about how that marriage 39 00:01:28,214 --> 00:01:30,425 really was was Claudia's story to tell. 40 00:01:35,388 --> 00:01:41,603 ♪ ♪ 41 00:01:41,728 --> 00:01:43,938 narrator: Claudia Hoerig, the Brazilian‐born wife 42 00:01:44,064 --> 00:01:45,273 of Karl Hoerig, 43 00:01:45,357 --> 00:01:46,775 an airline pilot found shot to death 44 00:01:46,858 --> 00:01:48,693 in tiny Newton Falls, Ohio. 45 00:01:48,777 --> 00:01:52,280 His small‐town murder grabbed international attention 46 00:01:52,364 --> 00:01:54,991 when Claudia fled the United States. 47 00:01:55,075 --> 00:01:56,826 Claudia is on trial for Karl's murder, 48 00:01:56,910 --> 00:01:58,912 and she's decided to take the witness stand 49 00:01:58,995 --> 00:02:01,206 to explain what she says happened 50 00:02:01,331 --> 00:02:03,583 and more importantly why it happened. 51 00:02:03,708 --> 00:02:08,963 ♪ ♪ 52 00:02:09,047 --> 00:02:11,132 ‐ One of the most important decisions 53 00:02:11,216 --> 00:02:13,843 that a lawyer has to make and the client 54 00:02:13,968 --> 00:02:15,303 is whether or not they're going 55 00:02:15,387 --> 00:02:17,722 to take the witness stand in their own defense. 56 00:02:17,806 --> 00:02:20,308 ‐ Claudia took the stand because she had 11 years 57 00:02:20,392 --> 00:02:23,019 to contemplate what she was going to use 58 00:02:23,103 --> 00:02:24,312 as her defense. 59 00:02:29,442 --> 00:02:33,029 ‐ Claudia Hoerig's defense was that she was in a sense 60 00:02:33,154 --> 00:02:35,365 morally justified in pulling the trigger 61 00:02:35,490 --> 00:02:38,076 because of Karl's actions against her. 62 00:02:38,201 --> 00:02:39,577 ♪ ♪ 63 00:02:39,703 --> 00:02:41,579 ‐ Who was Claudia's husband, Karl Hoerig, 64 00:02:41,705 --> 00:02:43,957 and what happened in their brief marriage 65 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:45,667 for it to end so tragically? 66 00:02:45,750 --> 00:02:46,710 ♪ ♪ 67 00:02:46,835 --> 00:02:48,253 ‐ Karl, Claudia's husband, 68 00:02:48,378 --> 00:02:50,380 his primary occupation was, he was a pilot 69 00:02:50,505 --> 00:02:51,840 for Southwest Airlines, 70 00:02:51,923 --> 00:02:54,592 but he was also a major in the Air Force Reserves 71 00:02:54,718 --> 00:02:57,512 and a pilot at the local air force reserve base 72 00:02:57,595 --> 00:02:58,346 in Youngstown. 73 00:02:58,430 --> 00:02:59,681 ‐ The way to describe Karl 74 00:02:59,764 --> 00:03:03,309 is absolutely a caring individual, 75 00:03:03,393 --> 00:03:06,938 very good‐natured, had a great sense of humor, 76 00:03:07,021 --> 00:03:08,815 very easy to get along with. 77 00:03:31,045 --> 00:03:32,255 ♪ ♪ 78 00:03:32,338 --> 00:03:34,716 ‐ He met someone on a dating website 79 00:03:34,841 --> 00:03:36,843 that was from Brazil. 80 00:03:36,926 --> 00:03:37,927 She was exotic. 81 00:03:47,061 --> 00:03:49,189 ‐ The next thing we know, Karl's on his way to Vegas 82 00:03:49,314 --> 00:03:51,483 and getting married to Claudia, 83 00:03:51,566 --> 00:03:54,360 and a lot of us were really, really surprised. 84 00:03:54,444 --> 00:03:56,571 In the beginning, it seem like a good marriage 85 00:03:56,654 --> 00:03:58,865 as Karl was very happy, and then two, 86 00:03:58,948 --> 00:04:00,200 maybe three months into it, 87 00:04:00,283 --> 00:04:01,951 there were a few different incidents. 88 00:04:02,035 --> 00:04:05,622 She called his family for, like, an intervention. 89 00:04:13,546 --> 00:04:16,674 ‐ I wasn't strong enough by myself 90 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,427 to control him, 91 00:04:19,552 --> 00:04:23,306 I needed help from his parents and from his family. 92 00:04:31,064 --> 00:04:33,483 ♪ ♪ 93 00:04:33,566 --> 00:04:35,485 ‐ Karl and Claudia got married so quickly that he didn't 94 00:04:35,568 --> 00:04:38,321 get a chance to know the real Claudia. 95 00:04:38,404 --> 00:04:40,281 And I think by the time that he found that out, 96 00:04:40,406 --> 00:04:42,200 he realized that he made a big mistake. 97 00:04:42,283 --> 00:04:44,369 [water rushing] 98 00:04:44,494 --> 00:04:47,497 ‐ On March 15, 2007, a call came in to 99 00:04:47,580 --> 00:04:49,499 the Newton village police department 100 00:04:49,582 --> 00:04:51,709 to check the welfare of Karl Hoerig. 101 00:04:51,793 --> 00:04:53,419 ‐ I called the police department. 102 00:04:53,545 --> 00:04:55,296 They went over to his house in Newton Falls. 103 00:04:55,380 --> 00:04:56,673 It's called a welfare check. 104 00:04:56,756 --> 00:04:58,466 When the Newton Falls Police Department 105 00:04:58,550 --> 00:05:01,052 arrived at Karl Hoerig's residence, 106 00:05:01,135 --> 00:05:03,054 they were met by his parents. 107 00:05:03,137 --> 00:05:04,639 Once they got inside the residence, 108 00:05:04,722 --> 00:05:09,185 they located Karl's body at the base of the steps. 109 00:05:09,310 --> 00:05:11,479 ‐ I was on the phone with the police officer 110 00:05:11,563 --> 00:05:14,232 when his dad actually, you know, 111 00:05:14,357 --> 00:05:15,692 came across Karl's body. 112 00:05:15,775 --> 00:05:18,528 And I could hear his dad scream through the phone. 113 00:05:18,653 --> 00:05:20,572 ♪ ♪ 114 00:05:20,697 --> 00:05:23,533 ‐ Karl Hoerig had been shot twice in the back 115 00:05:23,575 --> 00:05:24,659 and once in the head. 116 00:05:24,742 --> 00:05:26,286 ‐ It was an obvious homicide. 117 00:05:26,411 --> 00:05:28,037 They stated that they had 118 00:05:28,162 --> 00:05:30,790 a person of interest right away. 119 00:05:30,915 --> 00:05:32,375 The sheriff's department asked us 120 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:33,918 to immediately locate Claudia. 121 00:05:34,002 --> 00:05:35,587 ‐ We didn't know where she was at the time. 122 00:05:35,712 --> 00:05:38,506 Further investigation led us to learning 123 00:05:38,590 --> 00:05:41,718 that Claudia had returned to her home country of Brazil. 124 00:05:41,843 --> 00:05:43,761 ‐ We had discovered that her vehicle 125 00:05:43,887 --> 00:05:46,848 was actually parked at the Pittsburgh airport, 126 00:05:46,931 --> 00:05:48,516 and that was days 127 00:05:48,641 --> 00:05:51,853 before Karl's body was even actually discovered. 128 00:05:51,936 --> 00:05:53,062 ♪ ♪ 129 00:05:53,146 --> 00:05:55,648 ‐ Claudia drove to the Pittsburgh airport, 130 00:05:55,732 --> 00:05:59,068 got on a flight using his Southwest flight privileges, 131 00:05:59,193 --> 00:06:03,948 and flew to New York, from New York, flew to Brazil. 132 00:06:04,032 --> 00:06:06,409 ‐ Finding Claudia went relatively quickly. 133 00:06:06,534 --> 00:06:10,371 The legal extradition process is what 134 00:06:10,496 --> 00:06:12,540 took another 11 years before we 135 00:06:12,624 --> 00:06:14,876 were finally able to get her back to the United States. 136 00:06:14,959 --> 00:06:16,628 narrator: Claudia Hoerig had been indicted 137 00:06:16,711 --> 00:06:19,213 on murder charges, but she was beyond the reach 138 00:06:19,339 --> 00:06:20,673 of U. S. law enforcement. 139 00:06:20,715 --> 00:06:23,509 She'd started a new life with a new husband in Brazil 140 00:06:23,593 --> 00:06:26,054 and it literally took an international negotiation 141 00:06:26,179 --> 00:06:28,681 to bring her back to the Common Pleas Court 142 00:06:28,765 --> 00:06:31,643 in Trumbull County, Ohio, to tell her story. 143 00:06:31,726 --> 00:06:33,728 ‐ Claudia took the stand in an attempt 144 00:06:33,853 --> 00:06:36,439 to convince the jury that she may have had 145 00:06:36,564 --> 00:06:39,025 some reason to shoot Karl. 146 00:06:39,150 --> 00:06:40,860 ‐ Claudia was very much hoping 147 00:06:40,985 --> 00:06:43,905 that the jury would sympathize with her. 148 00:06:48,242 --> 00:06:49,452 [dramatic music] 149 00:06:49,577 --> 00:06:50,870 ‐ Did you plan to kill Karl Hoerig? 150 00:06:50,954 --> 00:06:53,957 ‐ Never, never, never for a second. 151 00:06:54,082 --> 00:06:57,043 ‐ 11 years had passed since pilot Karl Hoerig was found 152 00:06:57,168 --> 00:06:59,796 dead of three bullet wounds in his Newton Falls, Ohio, home. 153 00:06:59,879 --> 00:07:02,423 His wife, Claudia, had been tracked to Brazil, 154 00:07:02,548 --> 00:07:04,842 where she'd remarried and fashioned a new life. 155 00:07:04,884 --> 00:07:07,387 Finally, efforts to extradite her succeeded, 156 00:07:07,512 --> 00:07:10,181 and law enforcement have her back in Trumbull County. 157 00:07:10,264 --> 00:07:11,599 ♪ ♪ 158 00:07:11,724 --> 00:07:13,601 ‐ From the minute that we met her in Brazil 159 00:07:13,726 --> 00:07:15,728 and she started talking to us on the airplane, 160 00:07:15,812 --> 00:07:18,564 she felt that she had a story to tell. 161 00:07:44,882 --> 00:07:46,759 narrator: Behind closed doors, investigators 162 00:07:46,843 --> 00:07:48,553 had already heard Claudia Hoerig 163 00:07:48,678 --> 00:07:51,222 describe her strange two‐year marriage 164 00:07:51,347 --> 00:07:52,765 to her husband, Karl. 165 00:07:52,890 --> 00:07:54,517 As the trial proceeded, Claudia 166 00:07:54,642 --> 00:07:56,602 made what many consider to be a risky choice to tell 167 00:07:56,728 --> 00:07:58,229 her story on the witness stand. 168 00:07:58,354 --> 00:08:02,233 Would a jury sympathize with or even believe her story? 169 00:08:02,316 --> 00:08:06,362 ♪ ♪ 170 00:08:06,404 --> 00:08:08,531 ‐ Karl Hoerig is dead. 171 00:08:08,573 --> 00:08:09,907 Because she shot him. 172 00:08:10,033 --> 00:08:11,868 Because at her moment of weakness, 173 00:08:11,951 --> 00:08:14,704 30 days after she's attempted suicide, 174 00:08:14,746 --> 00:08:17,707 when she wants to have a conversation with him, 175 00:08:17,749 --> 00:08:21,919 he tells her, "Go ahead, kill yourself." 176 00:08:22,045 --> 00:08:23,671 ‐ There's only two people that know 177 00:08:23,713 --> 00:08:25,840 what a relationship is really like. 178 00:08:25,923 --> 00:08:27,175 And those are the two people that are 179 00:08:27,258 --> 00:08:28,968 actually in the relationship. 180 00:08:41,355 --> 00:08:45,026 But if, you know, it was later at night, 181 00:08:45,151 --> 00:08:50,198 I had to walk around just in heels, no clothes, naked. 182 00:08:50,281 --> 00:08:51,657 ‐ There was emotional abuse. 183 00:08:51,741 --> 00:08:53,868 There was sexual fetishes 184 00:08:53,910 --> 00:08:55,411 that were requested by Karl 185 00:08:55,495 --> 00:08:57,080 they thought he didn't agree with. 186 00:09:18,434 --> 00:09:19,435 ‐ You got pregnant. 187 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:20,978 ‐ I got pregnant. 188 00:09:21,062 --> 00:09:24,816 ‐ Claudia says that Karl did not want her to be a mother. 189 00:09:34,826 --> 00:09:36,702 When he realized that I'm 190 00:09:36,786 --> 00:09:38,204 really not going to have the abortion, 191 00:09:38,287 --> 00:09:43,584 he start torturing me psychologically, physically. 192 00:10:02,562 --> 00:10:03,938 ♪ ♪ 193 00:10:04,063 --> 00:10:05,940 ‐ In cases where there's a history of abuse, 194 00:10:06,023 --> 00:10:09,527 it's usually not difficult to find witnesses, 195 00:10:09,610 --> 00:10:11,404 whether it's friends or family or 196 00:10:11,487 --> 00:10:13,698 police officers or police reports. 197 00:10:13,781 --> 00:10:15,825 In this case, she didn't have any of that. 198 00:10:15,908 --> 00:10:19,370 So her testifying was really the only way that she had 199 00:10:19,453 --> 00:10:21,122 to get that statement to the jury. 200 00:10:21,205 --> 00:10:22,290 ♪ ♪ 201 00:10:27,253 --> 00:10:29,380 ‐ Late 2006, early 2007, 202 00:10:29,463 --> 00:10:32,091 you tried suicide for the first time? 203 00:10:32,216 --> 00:10:33,926 ‐ Yes. 204 00:10:34,010 --> 00:10:36,512 ‐ You took all the sleeping medication you had? 205 00:10:36,596 --> 00:10:40,808 ‐ Yeah. The sleeping pills about almost 30. 206 00:10:40,892 --> 00:10:44,020 And I went in my car, took the car, started driving. 207 00:10:44,103 --> 00:10:46,772 Ten minutes max while I was conscious. 208 00:10:46,898 --> 00:10:48,524 ‐ Did you ended up in an accident? 209 00:10:48,649 --> 00:10:51,694 ‐ I fell with the car into a ditch. 210 00:10:51,777 --> 00:10:53,196 narrator: According to Claudia, 211 00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:54,947 her marriage to Karl had deteriorated, 212 00:10:55,031 --> 00:10:56,866 and she'd reached a level of desperation. 213 00:10:56,908 --> 00:10:59,994 The week of Karl's killing in March of 2007 214 00:11:00,077 --> 00:11:03,581 she says she got another positive pregnancy test, 215 00:11:03,664 --> 00:11:05,708 the third one in her marriage. 216 00:11:05,833 --> 00:11:08,794 She confronted Karl with one last‐ditch effort 217 00:11:08,878 --> 00:11:11,339 to recommit to their marriage and her pregnancy 218 00:11:11,422 --> 00:11:15,176 or she says she would commit suicide in front of him 219 00:11:15,301 --> 00:11:19,555 but that then things took a very different turn. 220 00:11:19,639 --> 00:11:20,848 ♪ ♪ 221 00:11:20,932 --> 00:11:22,516 ‐ On the date of Karl's murder, 222 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:23,976 they got an argument when she told him 223 00:11:24,060 --> 00:11:25,686 she was pregnant for the third time. 224 00:11:25,770 --> 00:11:27,063 Karl wanted to take a shower 225 00:11:27,188 --> 00:11:29,273 and get away from her for a little bit. 226 00:11:29,357 --> 00:11:30,858 When he came back out, he was standing in 227 00:11:30,983 --> 00:11:34,570 the hallway with the gun to her head. 228 00:11:34,695 --> 00:11:36,113 ‐ And so opens the door from the bedroom, 229 00:11:36,239 --> 00:11:37,865 and you're standing there with a gun to your head? 230 00:11:37,949 --> 00:11:40,076 ‐ Yes. ‐ What happens next? 231 00:11:52,129 --> 00:11:54,090 ‐ Claudia said that was the thing that angered her 232 00:11:54,215 --> 00:11:57,510 so much that she fired the shots that‐‐ 233 00:11:57,593 --> 00:11:58,636 that killed him. 234 00:11:58,719 --> 00:12:02,348 [gunshots] 235 00:12:02,473 --> 00:12:04,517 ‐ I did this. I lost my mind. 236 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,435 I‐‐I did this. 237 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:08,771 I killed Karl. 238 00:12:08,854 --> 00:12:10,189 narrator: Claudia Hoerig says she snapped, 239 00:12:10,273 --> 00:12:12,024 that she hadn't planned to kill Karl. 240 00:12:12,108 --> 00:12:14,527 In the heat of the moment, she killed him. 241 00:12:14,568 --> 00:12:16,529 That testimony would challenge 242 00:12:16,570 --> 00:12:18,155 any prosecution effort to say 243 00:12:18,239 --> 00:12:19,782 she planned to kill her husband. 244 00:12:19,907 --> 00:12:22,034 Claudia says that after the shooting 245 00:12:22,118 --> 00:12:25,913 she tried to commit suicide, but the gun misfired. 246 00:12:25,997 --> 00:12:27,873 She says she called her family in Brazil 247 00:12:27,957 --> 00:12:29,959 and they encouraged her to flee. 248 00:12:30,042 --> 00:12:33,170 Once in Brazil, Claudia says she lost the baby in 249 00:12:33,296 --> 00:12:37,341 a miscarriage, and then she started a new life from scratch. 250 00:12:37,383 --> 00:12:39,802 ‐ There was no doubt that Claudia Hoerig 251 00:12:39,885 --> 00:12:42,513 caused the death of her husband, Karl. 252 00:12:42,638 --> 00:12:44,181 The only question is whether she was 253 00:12:44,265 --> 00:12:46,892 acting under the influence of a sudden passion. 254 00:12:46,976 --> 00:12:47,893 ‐ On the other hand, 255 00:12:48,019 --> 00:12:49,687 the prosecution wanted 256 00:12:49,770 --> 00:12:58,195 to demonstrate Claudia's premeditation. 257 00:12:58,321 --> 00:13:02,116 ♪ ♪ 258 00:13:02,199 --> 00:13:03,868 ‐ Before you shot Karl Hoerig, 259 00:13:03,993 --> 00:13:05,369 were you upset he made you walk 260 00:13:05,411 --> 00:13:07,121 around the house naked that night? 261 00:13:07,246 --> 00:13:08,998 ‐ Yeah. I didn't like that. ‐ All right. 262 00:13:09,081 --> 00:13:10,416 Before you shot him, 263 00:13:10,499 --> 00:13:11,709 were you upset he had 264 00:13:11,792 --> 00:13:14,962 some weird sexual fetishes, according to you? 265 00:13:15,046 --> 00:13:16,422 ‐ I didn't like that. 266 00:13:16,547 --> 00:13:18,841 narrator: Claudia tells a shocking story of a life 267 00:13:18,924 --> 00:13:20,926 under the abusive control of her husband. 268 00:13:21,052 --> 00:13:22,386 She admitted shooting him but 269 00:13:22,511 --> 00:13:24,555 said it was in the heat of the moment 270 00:13:24,638 --> 00:13:27,350 caused by Karl's cruelty. 271 00:13:27,433 --> 00:13:28,976 ‐ You can control the questions that 272 00:13:29,060 --> 00:13:30,686 your attorney is going to ask you, 273 00:13:30,811 --> 00:13:32,855 but you can't control the follow‐up questions 274 00:13:32,938 --> 00:13:35,024 that are going to be asked by a prosecutor. 275 00:13:35,066 --> 00:13:36,609 narrator: The prosecution decides to bring 276 00:13:36,692 --> 00:13:38,069 a ferocious cross‐examination 277 00:13:38,194 --> 00:13:40,863 to bear on Claudia and her story, 278 00:13:40,946 --> 00:13:43,699 their goal to reveal Claudia's premeditation 279 00:13:43,783 --> 00:13:45,201 in the killing of her husband. 280 00:13:45,284 --> 00:13:48,871 ♪ ♪ 281 00:13:48,913 --> 00:13:50,247 ‐ Before you shot him, 282 00:13:50,373 --> 00:13:53,042 were you upset that he picked out the clothes you wore? 283 00:13:53,167 --> 00:13:55,503 ‐ I didn't realize at the time that I was being‐‐ 284 00:13:55,586 --> 00:13:58,672 ‐ Yes, or no? All I want to know is yes or no. 285 00:13:58,798 --> 00:14:00,132 These are simple questions 286 00:14:00,216 --> 00:14:02,134 ‐ I didn't like that very much. 287 00:14:02,218 --> 00:14:04,178 ‐ Can Karl Hoerig came in this courtroom 288 00:14:04,220 --> 00:14:08,015 and dispute or admit or deny anything you've said to 289 00:14:08,140 --> 00:14:11,185 this detective or to this court yesterday? 290 00:14:11,268 --> 00:14:12,353 ‐ No. 291 00:14:12,478 --> 00:14:14,188 narrator: The prosecution had several key facts 292 00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:15,815 pointing to premeditation. 293 00:14:15,898 --> 00:14:17,858 First off, before killing Karl, 294 00:14:17,983 --> 00:14:21,779 Claudia wired nearly her entire bank account to Brazil. 295 00:14:21,862 --> 00:14:23,364 ♪ ♪ 296 00:14:23,489 --> 00:14:25,282 ‐ We saw a lot of signs that indicated 297 00:14:25,408 --> 00:14:27,034 premeditation and the fact that she 298 00:14:27,159 --> 00:14:28,911 transferred money in advance. 299 00:14:28,994 --> 00:14:31,038 ‐ You shot Karl Hoerig 300 00:14:31,122 --> 00:14:33,040 a few days after you transferred 301 00:14:33,165 --> 00:14:36,001 $9,900 to Brazil, correct? 302 00:14:36,127 --> 00:14:37,211 ‐ Yes. 303 00:14:37,336 --> 00:14:38,879 ‐ So it looks like she tried to set herself up 304 00:14:39,004 --> 00:14:41,048 financially for when she fled to Brazil. 305 00:14:41,173 --> 00:14:42,716 narrator: The prosecution questions whether 306 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,594 Claudia's account of Karl's killing is believable, 307 00:14:45,719 --> 00:14:47,054 saying she was pregnant again for 308 00:14:47,179 --> 00:14:48,848 the third time after two miscarriages 309 00:14:48,973 --> 00:14:51,892 and that Claudia told Karl she would commit suicide 310 00:14:51,976 --> 00:14:54,437 if he wouldn't recommit to their marriage. 311 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,857 ‐ You said he grabbed you and pushed you down? 312 00:14:57,940 --> 00:14:58,899 ‐ Yes. 313 00:14:58,983 --> 00:15:00,359 ‐ All right. You'd agree 314 00:15:00,484 --> 00:15:03,112 the only witness and the only person who can tell us 315 00:15:03,237 --> 00:15:05,990 what happened in that house on March 12th is you? 316 00:15:06,073 --> 00:15:07,533 ‐ Correct. ‐ All right. 317 00:15:07,616 --> 00:15:10,870 ♪ ♪ 318 00:15:10,995 --> 00:15:13,372 ‐ She bought a .357 magnum with a laser. 319 00:15:13,456 --> 00:15:15,875 That was really tough to explain as 320 00:15:15,958 --> 00:15:17,042 an instrument that she would 321 00:15:17,126 --> 00:15:19,128 choose in order to commit suicide. 322 00:15:19,211 --> 00:15:21,839 ‐ Karl's walking away from you; he's done talking. 323 00:15:21,964 --> 00:15:23,382 ‐ He's done talking. ‐ All right. 324 00:15:23,507 --> 00:15:25,759 You shot Karl's Hoerig with the same gun 325 00:15:25,843 --> 00:15:27,928 that you bought two days earlier? 326 00:15:28,053 --> 00:15:30,264 ‐ Yes. ‐ You shot Karl's Hoerig 327 00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:31,849 with the same gun that you paid 328 00:15:31,891 --> 00:15:35,394 $227.52 for a light laser sight 329 00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:37,229 two days before, correct? 330 00:15:37,313 --> 00:15:39,273 ‐ Yes. ‐ You shot Karl Hoerig 331 00:15:39,398 --> 00:15:41,317 with the same gun that you practiced with 332 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,612 for about an hour two days earlier, correct? 333 00:15:44,695 --> 00:15:46,071 ‐ Yes. ‐ The coroner's report 334 00:15:46,155 --> 00:15:48,908 indicates two gunshot wounds to Karl's back 335 00:15:49,033 --> 00:15:50,659 and then a close‐range gunshot wound 336 00:15:50,743 --> 00:15:52,661 to the head, which would lead us to believe 337 00:15:52,745 --> 00:15:54,705 that she shot him twice as he was going down 338 00:15:54,788 --> 00:15:56,123 the steps like she said. 339 00:15:56,207 --> 00:15:58,918 And then she went down to the bottom of steps, 340 00:15:59,043 --> 00:16:00,544 shot him at close range in the back of the head 341 00:16:00,669 --> 00:16:03,839 to make sure he was dead. 342 00:16:03,923 --> 00:16:07,510 ‐ You walked 1, 2, 3, 343 00:16:07,593 --> 00:16:11,263 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 344 00:16:11,347 --> 00:16:14,391 9, 10 steps down to where his body was, 345 00:16:14,475 --> 00:16:17,728 and you put the gun 12 to 24 inches 346 00:16:17,853 --> 00:16:19,605 from his head and pulled the trigger. 347 00:16:19,730 --> 00:16:22,107 [gunshots] 348 00:16:23,025 --> 00:16:24,276 ‐ Probably? 349 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:25,986 Well, did somebody else break into the house 350 00:16:26,070 --> 00:16:28,197 and shoot him too? 351 00:16:28,322 --> 00:16:29,865 narrator: The planning was hard to ignore, 352 00:16:29,949 --> 00:16:32,034 wiring the money to Brazil ahead of time, 353 00:16:32,159 --> 00:16:33,911 buying a gun with a laser sight, 354 00:16:33,994 --> 00:16:35,829 practicing at a shooting range. 355 00:16:35,913 --> 00:16:37,373 Claudia said that was all 356 00:16:37,456 --> 00:16:40,209 just a premeditated suicide she was planning, 357 00:16:40,251 --> 00:16:43,462 but had her intended suicide becomes something else? 358 00:16:43,546 --> 00:16:46,006 Had Claudia suddenly snapped, killing Karl in 359 00:16:46,131 --> 00:16:49,343 the heat of the moment instead of herself? 360 00:16:49,385 --> 00:16:51,512 ‐ If Claudia could've convinced the jury 361 00:16:51,595 --> 00:16:55,140 that she killed Karl with good reason, 362 00:16:55,224 --> 00:16:57,810 it may convince the jury to either reduce 363 00:16:57,893 --> 00:17:06,694 the charge or give her a lesser sentence. 364 00:17:06,819 --> 00:17:08,654 [light music] 365 00:17:12,575 --> 00:17:14,368 narrator: Claudia tells the jury her first hope was 366 00:17:14,493 --> 00:17:17,079 to continue her marriage and raise their child. 367 00:17:17,162 --> 00:17:20,207 Her contingency plan, to commit suicide. 368 00:17:20,332 --> 00:17:22,626 But her final conversation with Karl, she says, 369 00:17:22,751 --> 00:17:25,713 caused her to spiral into a fury, and she says she 370 00:17:25,838 --> 00:17:26,922 killed him with a weapon that she 371 00:17:27,006 --> 00:17:29,008 intended to use on herself. 372 00:17:29,091 --> 00:17:32,469 ‐ Claudia's defense team used her story to try to convince 373 00:17:32,553 --> 00:17:36,223 the jury that both emotional and physical abuse by Karl 374 00:17:36,348 --> 00:17:38,684 led to her shooting him. 375 00:17:38,726 --> 00:17:40,686 ‐ He knocks her down. 376 00:17:40,769 --> 00:17:42,855 She says, "I want to talk." 377 00:17:42,896 --> 00:17:46,191 He says words to the effect of, 378 00:17:46,275 --> 00:17:48,152 "Killing yourself is a good idea. 379 00:17:48,235 --> 00:17:49,486 "Wait for me to leave. 380 00:17:49,570 --> 00:17:51,530 "Do it in the basement so you don't get blood 381 00:17:51,614 --> 00:17:52,364 on my painting." 382 00:17:52,448 --> 00:17:56,035 At that point, she loses it. 383 00:17:56,076 --> 00:17:57,244 ♪ ♪ 384 00:17:57,328 --> 00:17:58,912 ‐ Upon hearing those words, 385 00:17:58,996 --> 00:18:02,416 everything boiled over, and Claudia couldn't help herself. 386 00:18:02,499 --> 00:18:03,959 And according to the defense, 387 00:18:04,084 --> 00:18:05,711 no reasonable person given all those facts 388 00:18:05,836 --> 00:18:07,296 could have helped themselves. 389 00:18:07,379 --> 00:18:11,467 ‐ She thought that if she told enough stories 390 00:18:11,550 --> 00:18:14,553 and put enough detail out about all of these allegations 391 00:18:14,678 --> 00:18:15,846 of the emotional abuse, 392 00:18:15,971 --> 00:18:18,015 the physical abuse, the sexual abuse 393 00:18:18,140 --> 00:18:19,350 that she could gain 394 00:18:19,475 --> 00:18:21,310 the sympathy of the public and the jury. 395 00:18:21,393 --> 00:18:22,978 Narrator: The question for the jury is not 396 00:18:23,062 --> 00:18:25,272 if she fired the shots, but why? 397 00:18:25,397 --> 00:18:28,067 Claudia has made a case only she could make. 398 00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:30,861 No other witnesses testified to the state of her marriage. 399 00:18:30,944 --> 00:18:32,279 Will the jury relate to 400 00:18:32,363 --> 00:18:34,031 the duress she said she suffered? 401 00:18:34,073 --> 00:18:35,449 Could they walk in her shoes? 402 00:18:35,574 --> 00:18:37,868 Will that lead to a conviction on a lesser charge 403 00:18:37,910 --> 00:18:39,620 or a shorter sentence? 404 00:18:39,703 --> 00:18:41,121 ♪ ♪ 405 00:18:47,503 --> 00:18:51,173 This case has been proven to you 406 00:18:51,215 --> 00:18:53,550 beyond all reasonable doubt 407 00:18:53,676 --> 00:18:57,680 that she committed the crime as charged. 408 00:18:57,721 --> 00:19:00,557 ‐ Claudia was trying to make Karl out to be a monster. 409 00:19:00,683 --> 00:19:03,185 On the other hand, nobody that we talked to 410 00:19:03,310 --> 00:19:04,728 anywhere could support any of 411 00:19:04,812 --> 00:19:06,897 the things that Claudia was saying about him 412 00:19:07,022 --> 00:19:08,190 whether it was ex‐wives, 413 00:19:08,315 --> 00:19:10,192 former girlfriends, family members. 414 00:19:10,275 --> 00:19:13,529 She was the only person saying anything different. 415 00:19:13,612 --> 00:19:17,741 ‐ Please rise. 416 00:19:17,825 --> 00:19:19,868 ‐ Buying the murder weapon ahead of time, 417 00:19:19,910 --> 00:19:22,621 taking money out, fleeing all the way to Brazil, 418 00:19:22,705 --> 00:19:25,374 the number of shots, the location of the shots 419 00:19:25,499 --> 00:19:26,959 all according to prosecutors 420 00:19:27,084 --> 00:19:29,920 meant that she did this killing with premeditation. 421 00:19:30,003 --> 00:19:31,588 ‐ Remain standing for the jury. 422 00:19:31,714 --> 00:19:33,424 ‐ You never know what a jury's going to think. 423 00:19:33,549 --> 00:19:36,176 It's quite possible that you end up with a juror who 424 00:19:36,260 --> 00:19:39,513 maybe feels some compassion for Claudia, 425 00:19:39,596 --> 00:19:41,306 because maybe they've experienced some of 426 00:19:41,390 --> 00:19:43,225 the same things that she described 427 00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:45,352 while she was on the stand. 428 00:19:45,436 --> 00:19:46,770 ‐ We the jury in this case 429 00:19:46,895 --> 00:19:49,064 duly impaneled and sworn our firm find the defendant, 430 00:19:49,148 --> 00:19:52,693 Claudia C. Hoerig, guilty of aggravated murder 431 00:19:52,776 --> 00:19:54,361 ♪ ♪ 432 00:19:54,486 --> 00:19:56,613 ‐ To finally be able to bring Claudia 433 00:19:56,697 --> 00:19:59,908 back to Trumbull County, Ohio, to face trial for this 434 00:19:59,992 --> 00:20:02,202 and then get a successful verdict of guilty 435 00:20:02,286 --> 00:20:04,371 was very important to all of us who worked 436 00:20:04,455 --> 00:20:08,375 this case to bring some closure to the Hoerig family. 437 00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:10,043 ‐ My biggest takeaway from this 438 00:20:10,169 --> 00:20:12,171 is she didn't have to kill him. 439 00:20:12,254 --> 00:20:13,547 She could have transferred 440 00:20:13,672 --> 00:20:15,090 that money and driven to the airport 441 00:20:15,174 --> 00:20:16,216 and flown to Brazil 442 00:20:16,341 --> 00:20:17,634 and had her $10,000 and 443 00:20:17,718 --> 00:20:20,304 just lived the rest of her life there. 444 00:20:20,387 --> 00:20:22,222 It was just completely senseless. 445 00:20:22,306 --> 00:20:24,349 narrator: Taking the stand was a gamble that did 446 00:20:24,433 --> 00:20:26,769 not help Claudia Hoerig's legal case. 447 00:20:26,894 --> 00:20:29,229 She told her version of her marriage to the jury, 448 00:20:29,313 --> 00:20:30,689 but she was held accountable for a 449 00:20:30,773 --> 00:20:32,858 premeditated killing with a firearm. 450 00:20:32,983 --> 00:20:34,526 ‐ You know, there's certain friendships you make in 451 00:20:34,610 --> 00:20:36,904 life that are irreplaceable. 452 00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:38,947 So even though he's gone, he's not forgotten. 453 00:20:39,072 --> 00:20:42,201 I wanted her to spend the rest of her life in jail. 454 00:20:42,284 --> 00:20:44,119 narrator: Her sentence, life 455 00:20:44,244 --> 00:20:45,746 with at least an opportunity for 456 00:20:45,871 --> 00:20:48,207 parole after 28 years. 457 00:20:48,332 --> 00:20:49,708 Parole was a condition for 458 00:20:49,792 --> 00:20:52,544 Claudia Hoerig's extradition from Brazil. 459 00:20:52,628 --> 00:20:55,380 Defendants are never forced to take the stand, 460 00:20:55,464 --> 00:20:56,924 but that decision is likely 461 00:20:57,049 --> 00:20:59,676 the biggest one they ever make. 462 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:00,761 For "Under Oath," I'm Dan Abrams.