1 00:00:08,008 --> 00:00:11,279 {\an8}-Planet Earth about to be recycled. 2 00:00:11,303 --> 00:00:15,950 {\an8}Your only chance is to leave with us. 3 00:00:15,974 --> 00:00:19,537 -The '90s are bracketed by two cults, 4 00:00:19,561 --> 00:00:21,915 each prepping for the end of the world. 5 00:00:21,939 --> 00:00:25,084 -When they come busting in on my door with guns drawn 6 00:00:25,108 --> 00:00:26,419 and pointed in the air, 7 00:00:26,443 --> 00:00:28,338 that just ain't gonna happen. 8 00:00:28,362 --> 00:00:30,632 -One trains for an apocalyptic battle 9 00:00:30,656 --> 00:00:32,800 with the armies of Babylon. 10 00:00:32,824 --> 00:00:35,678 -The US government on your doorstep, 11 00:00:35,702 --> 00:00:37,472 ready to get it on with you. 12 00:00:37,496 --> 00:00:42,310 -The other preps for its final exit from Earth with aliens. 13 00:00:42,334 --> 00:00:44,479 -We were actually making application 14 00:00:44,503 --> 00:00:47,315 for employment on their spacecraft. 15 00:00:47,339 --> 00:00:51,486 -Their actions will send shockwaves through the nation... 16 00:00:51,510 --> 00:00:53,821 -They were like lambs led to slaughter. 17 00:00:53,845 --> 00:00:56,950 - that still echo to this day. 18 00:00:56,974 --> 00:00:58,660 -We're taking back our country, 19 00:00:58,684 --> 00:01:00,578 and it's gonna be biblical. 20 00:01:00,602 --> 00:01:08,602 {\an8}♪♪ 21 00:01:09,486 --> 00:01:10,880 {\an8}[ Dial-up modems screeching ] 22 00:01:10,904 --> 00:01:18,471 {\an8}♪♪ 23 00:01:18,495 --> 00:01:26,020 {\an8}♪♪ 24 00:01:26,044 --> 00:01:28,106 {\an8}-US and Russian military officers 25 00:01:28,130 --> 00:01:30,400 {\an8}are working side by side tonight to ensure 26 00:01:30,424 --> 00:01:34,946 {\an8}that no Y2K bugs trigger an accidental nuclear exchange. 27 00:01:34,970 --> 00:01:36,823 -Let's go, guys. Let's go. 28 00:01:36,847 --> 00:01:39,659 -As the '90s draws to a close. 29 00:01:39,683 --> 00:01:43,037 There's growing concern that the Y2K computer bug 30 00:01:43,061 --> 00:01:46,541 could wreak havoc on the nation. 31 00:01:46,565 --> 00:01:49,168 -There is no one on this planet that can say 32 00:01:49,192 --> 00:01:51,462 that the year 2000 problem doesn't affect me. 33 00:01:51,486 --> 00:01:53,715 [ Thunder crashes ] 34 00:01:53,739 --> 00:01:56,926 -But for some religious zealots, 35 00:01:56,950 --> 00:02:01,139 the entire decade is one long string of events 36 00:02:01,163 --> 00:02:06,936 proving the actual end of days is fast approaching. 37 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:08,313 -There's some trouble in the Middle East. 38 00:02:08,337 --> 00:02:09,939 Let me tell you about it just quickly. 39 00:02:09,963 --> 00:02:13,276 Iraqi and Kuwaiti troops have clashed at the border. 40 00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:15,653 -The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait 41 00:02:15,677 --> 00:02:18,614 brings violence to the Holy Lands, 42 00:02:18,638 --> 00:02:22,410 tornadoes ravage the American Midwest, 43 00:02:22,434 --> 00:02:24,454 and some of the deadliest wildfires 44 00:02:24,478 --> 00:02:28,791 on record put California in a chokehold. 45 00:02:28,815 --> 00:02:31,836 -There are many people now who are sort of obsessed, 46 00:02:31,860 --> 00:02:35,256 if you will, with the idea of the millennia. 47 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,092 -For some small groups of Christian Americans, 48 00:02:38,116 --> 00:02:41,620 all these events point straight to Armageddon. 49 00:02:43,205 --> 00:02:46,309 That final battle between the armies of Heaven 50 00:02:46,333 --> 00:02:49,187 and the forces of evil that's prophesied 51 00:02:49,211 --> 00:02:53,775 in the Bible's Book of Revelation. 52 00:02:53,799 --> 00:02:55,276 -It was just in the air... The idea 53 00:02:55,300 --> 00:02:57,594 that the end of the world was coming. 54 00:02:59,346 --> 00:03:04,827 -Whether by nuclear devastation, environmental disaster, 55 00:03:04,851 --> 00:03:09,040 or a plague that wipes out billions, 56 00:03:09,064 --> 00:03:11,501 they're bracing for an apocalyptic event 57 00:03:11,525 --> 00:03:14,379 to strike sometime in the '90s. 58 00:03:14,403 --> 00:03:16,005 -Minus one minute. 59 00:03:16,029 --> 00:03:18,299 -It might be the end of the human race 60 00:03:18,323 --> 00:03:21,594 and not necessarily the world. 61 00:03:21,618 --> 00:03:23,930 -My name is Alan R. Warren. I wrote the book 62 00:03:23,954 --> 00:03:27,433 "Doomsday Cults: The Devil's Hostages." 63 00:03:27,457 --> 00:03:29,477 {\an8}When people get scared, 64 00:03:29,501 --> 00:03:32,230 {\an8}they start to look for something to calm them, 65 00:03:32,254 --> 00:03:34,482 something to soothe their nerves. 66 00:03:34,506 --> 00:03:36,758 So what better than a cult? 67 00:03:39,428 --> 00:03:41,781 -For two cults in particular, 68 00:03:41,805 --> 00:03:44,075 their apocalyptic beliefs will lead them down 69 00:03:44,099 --> 00:03:48,204 a parallel path to their own self-destruction. 70 00:03:48,228 --> 00:03:51,124 -I'm sure the news media, after we leave, 71 00:03:51,148 --> 00:03:55,670 is gonna have a heyday comparing us to the Davidians. 72 00:03:55,694 --> 00:03:59,006 -The first is the Waco Branch Davidians. 73 00:03:59,030 --> 00:04:02,677 -We have what appears to be a fire going on right now 74 00:04:02,701 --> 00:04:05,513 raging at the Branch Davidian compound. 75 00:04:05,537 --> 00:04:08,057 -The second is Heaven's Gate. 76 00:04:08,081 --> 00:04:09,975 -If you're just joining us, our top story, of course, 77 00:04:09,999 --> 00:04:13,020 is the cult suicide near San Diego, California. 78 00:04:13,044 --> 00:04:16,190 Officials said today the 18 men and 21 women 79 00:04:16,214 --> 00:04:19,193 took their lives in stages over the past few days. 80 00:04:19,217 --> 00:04:21,320 -How could these people choose to do something, 81 00:04:21,344 --> 00:04:24,031 which, from my perspective, made no sense, 82 00:04:24,055 --> 00:04:27,326 but from their perspective, made total sense? 83 00:04:27,350 --> 00:04:29,203 {\an8}I'm Benjamin Zeller. I'm a professor 84 00:04:29,227 --> 00:04:31,497 {\an8}of religious studies at Lake Forest College 85 00:04:31,521 --> 00:04:33,207 outside of Chicago, Illinois. 86 00:04:33,231 --> 00:04:36,210 I wrote a book on Heaven's Gate. 87 00:04:36,234 --> 00:04:38,004 Alright. How to start. 88 00:04:38,028 --> 00:04:40,548 -The Mass Suicide in Rancho Santa Fe, California, 89 00:04:40,572 --> 00:04:43,342 doesn't mark the first time CBS News has reported 90 00:04:43,366 --> 00:04:45,553 on the cult led by Marshall Applewhite. 91 00:04:45,577 --> 00:04:47,555 -We tend to think about Heaven's Gate 92 00:04:47,579 --> 00:04:49,056 as a 1990s phenomenon, 93 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,725 but to understand them, we have to step back 94 00:04:50,749 --> 00:04:54,937 to the 1970s... The mid-'70s when they started. 95 00:04:54,961 --> 00:04:57,940 -A mysterious couple appeared three weeks ago 96 00:04:57,964 --> 00:05:01,486 circulating a flier proclaiming a UFO would soon be ready 97 00:05:01,510 --> 00:05:04,447 {\an8}to take whomever would follow them to another life, 98 00:05:04,471 --> 00:05:06,365 {\an8}another world. 99 00:05:06,389 --> 00:05:08,493 -Heaven's Gate first made national news 100 00:05:08,517 --> 00:05:11,913 in the wake of a public event they held in Oregon, 101 00:05:11,937 --> 00:05:14,916 where they literally put posters up and said, 102 00:05:14,940 --> 00:05:16,792 "Come to this little venue, this little Waldport Inn, 103 00:05:16,816 --> 00:05:18,920 and we're gonna have a public meeting 104 00:05:18,944 --> 00:05:23,466 and talk about UFOs and talk about how UFOs are real 105 00:05:23,490 --> 00:05:26,052 and the Bible is real and the Bible is about UFOs." 106 00:05:26,076 --> 00:05:28,262 And dozens of people show up. 107 00:05:28,286 --> 00:05:30,723 -Today, there is a group of earthlings 108 00:05:30,747 --> 00:05:33,267 who believe they're on their way to a rendezvous 109 00:05:33,291 --> 00:05:37,480 with such a ship for a trip to the unknown. 110 00:05:37,504 --> 00:05:39,774 -For Heaven's Gate, the Bible was interpreted 111 00:05:39,798 --> 00:05:42,026 through the lens of UFOs and ufology, 112 00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:45,112 these ideas about extraterrestrial contact 113 00:05:45,136 --> 00:05:47,240 and that flying saucers have crash landed 114 00:05:47,264 --> 00:05:49,116 and that the government is conspiring 115 00:05:49,140 --> 00:05:51,285 to hide this from people. 116 00:05:51,309 --> 00:05:56,082 The idea that they offered was you are not of this planet. 117 00:05:56,106 --> 00:05:57,500 You have been on a spiritual quest, 118 00:05:57,524 --> 00:05:59,585 and that's valid... Spiritual quest is good. 119 00:05:59,609 --> 00:06:00,795 It's good to try meditating. 120 00:06:00,819 --> 00:06:02,129 It's good to read different texts. 121 00:06:02,153 --> 00:06:03,714 It's good to try different religions. 122 00:06:03,738 --> 00:06:05,967 But what is better is to realize that none of those paths 123 00:06:05,991 --> 00:06:09,887 will take you to the ultimate. 124 00:06:09,911 --> 00:06:11,389 And that is what they called the next level, 125 00:06:11,413 --> 00:06:13,081 which is outer space. 126 00:06:16,084 --> 00:06:17,562 The idea was that you would leave 127 00:06:17,586 --> 00:06:19,063 behind your human identity, 128 00:06:19,087 --> 00:06:21,274 your human level, but that included your family, 129 00:06:21,298 --> 00:06:23,776 your possessions, your loved ones, 130 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:29,240 and join them on this... this attempt to leave our planet. 131 00:06:29,264 --> 00:06:30,658 -[ Playing harmonica ] 132 00:06:30,682 --> 00:06:33,202 -For that, you have to abandon your humanity 133 00:06:33,226 --> 00:06:38,082 and try to act like a next-level alien. 134 00:06:38,106 --> 00:06:42,253 -They said they came from evolutionary level above human 135 00:06:42,277 --> 00:06:46,549 and that they drove physical spacecrafts, 136 00:06:46,573 --> 00:06:50,303 that we were actually making application for employment 137 00:06:50,327 --> 00:06:53,222 on their spacecraft. 138 00:06:53,246 --> 00:06:54,890 My name is Sawyer. 139 00:06:54,914 --> 00:06:57,476 {\an8}I was part of Ti and Do's group 140 00:06:57,500 --> 00:07:01,147 {\an8}that became known as Heaven's Gate for 19 years. 141 00:07:01,171 --> 00:07:03,024 {\an8}[ Playing flute ] 142 00:07:03,048 --> 00:07:06,235 I can do a little saxophone, if you wanted, too. 143 00:07:06,259 --> 00:07:07,903 It's in the car, though. 144 00:07:07,927 --> 00:07:10,072 We're talking about a place that has existence 145 00:07:10,096 --> 00:07:12,742 {\an8}outside of time of the human kingdom 146 00:07:12,766 --> 00:07:15,077 {\an8}and outside of the environment 147 00:07:15,101 --> 00:07:17,079 {\an8}or the section of space 148 00:07:17,103 --> 00:07:20,458 {\an8}that we refer to as the universe. 149 00:07:20,482 --> 00:07:23,919 {\an8}Ti is Bonnie Lu Trousdale Nettles 150 00:07:23,943 --> 00:07:28,466 {\an8}and Do is Marshall Herff Applewhite. 151 00:07:28,490 --> 00:07:32,053 {\an8}They were here to bring updates to the Bible 152 00:07:32,077 --> 00:07:34,347 and to fulfill prophecy. 153 00:07:34,371 --> 00:07:38,392 -These are the two claiming to be millions of years old. 154 00:07:38,416 --> 00:07:40,102 -Ti and Do actually come to decide 155 00:07:40,126 --> 00:07:41,479 that they are two beings 156 00:07:41,503 --> 00:07:43,648 referred to in the Book of Revelation 157 00:07:43,672 --> 00:07:45,399 as the two witnesses. 158 00:07:45,423 --> 00:07:49,737 The job of the two witnesses is to preach the truth of Heaven 159 00:07:49,761 --> 00:07:52,657 and then to be martyred, to be killed on the streets. 160 00:07:52,681 --> 00:07:54,742 -We're going to be martyred at the completion 161 00:07:54,766 --> 00:07:57,203 of this testimony, 162 00:07:57,227 --> 00:07:59,580 and when we are, after three and a half days, 163 00:07:59,604 --> 00:08:01,290 we're gonna walk up. 164 00:08:01,314 --> 00:08:04,418 Just get right up, and you're gonna watch us. 165 00:08:04,442 --> 00:08:07,254 -Through the technology of the extraterrestrials, 166 00:08:07,278 --> 00:08:09,090 they're going to be restored to life. 167 00:08:09,114 --> 00:08:12,468 They can then demonstrate to the world the reality of 168 00:08:12,492 --> 00:08:14,762 this extraterrestrial technology and that the Bible 169 00:08:14,786 --> 00:08:19,517 is simply a record of extraterrestrial investigations. 170 00:08:19,541 --> 00:08:24,563 -Those people who choose to go away will be picked up by a UFO 171 00:08:24,587 --> 00:08:28,442 and they will be leaving this earth forever. 172 00:08:28,466 --> 00:08:30,778 -Why didn't you decide to go? 173 00:08:30,802 --> 00:08:33,948 -I'm too human. 174 00:08:33,972 --> 00:08:35,574 -This was an extreme group. 175 00:08:35,598 --> 00:08:36,951 They say, "Come join us. 176 00:08:36,975 --> 00:08:38,494 We're gonna live out at campgrounds. 177 00:08:38,518 --> 00:08:40,121 You're gonna spend the day meditating 178 00:08:40,145 --> 00:08:42,289 and trying to overcome your humanity." 179 00:08:42,313 --> 00:08:43,749 Didn't appeal to a lot of people. 180 00:08:43,773 --> 00:08:45,209 And increasingly, it was hard to get converts. 181 00:08:45,233 --> 00:08:47,586 So, at one point, after being heckled, 182 00:08:47,610 --> 00:08:50,881 Ti stood up and she said, "The harvest is closed. 183 00:08:50,905 --> 00:08:52,341 We're gonna turn inwards. 184 00:08:52,365 --> 00:08:53,634 We're gonna effectively go underground. 185 00:08:53,658 --> 00:08:54,969 We're going to stop proselytizing, 186 00:08:54,993 --> 00:08:56,554 stop holding these meetings. 187 00:08:56,578 --> 00:09:00,307 We're gonna focus on overcoming our humanity." 188 00:09:00,331 --> 00:09:02,935 -But when one of the co-founders succeeds 189 00:09:02,959 --> 00:09:06,230 in overcoming her humanity, 190 00:09:06,254 --> 00:09:09,316 the intended result doesn't happen. 191 00:09:09,340 --> 00:09:11,360 -In the mid-'80s, Bonnie Lu Nettles 192 00:09:11,384 --> 00:09:12,987 gets increasingly sick. 193 00:09:13,011 --> 00:09:15,865 She has cancer, which spreads, 194 00:09:15,889 --> 00:09:18,451 and then eventually she passes away. 195 00:09:18,475 --> 00:09:20,536 And she does not, as far as anyone can tell, 196 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:22,496 get picked up by a UFO. 197 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,541 -Ti's vehicle died in 1985, 198 00:09:25,565 --> 00:09:30,671 and it did change the group in the sense that Do believed 199 00:09:30,695 --> 00:09:33,591 that Ti was his old member. 200 00:09:33,615 --> 00:09:36,427 So Do had to operate alone. 201 00:09:36,451 --> 00:09:39,388 -When that happened, Applewhite changed 202 00:09:39,412 --> 00:09:42,558 and he started looking at things in a different light. 203 00:09:42,582 --> 00:09:45,686 -Death of the body or losing the body, 204 00:09:45,710 --> 00:09:53,710 losing the vehicle, essentially has no long-term effect on me. 205 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,531 -Yes, he was distraught, but he got over it very quickly, 206 00:09:57,555 --> 00:10:00,391 and for all intents and purposes, that I could see. 207 00:10:02,268 --> 00:10:04,872 -Now alone, as sole leader of the group, 208 00:10:04,896 --> 00:10:09,543 Applewhite makes a profound shift in his philosophy. 209 00:10:09,567 --> 00:10:12,546 -Do is effectively, for members of the group, 210 00:10:12,570 --> 00:10:15,382 he is Christ reborn and he is the second coming, 211 00:10:15,406 --> 00:10:17,218 and that's a big transition. 212 00:10:17,242 --> 00:10:20,137 And the group really has a sudden shift towards the idea 213 00:10:20,161 --> 00:10:21,597 that, well, perhaps 214 00:10:21,621 --> 00:10:23,557 they're not gonna, in an embodied form, 215 00:10:23,581 --> 00:10:25,810 get onto the spaceship and fly off, 216 00:10:25,834 --> 00:10:28,312 but it might be something in a more metaphysical, 217 00:10:28,336 --> 00:10:30,481 metaphoric, spiritual level. 218 00:10:30,505 --> 00:10:33,984 That's what opens the door a decade later to the suicide. 219 00:10:34,008 --> 00:10:36,052 [ Birds cawing ] 220 00:10:37,428 --> 00:10:39,865 -If the death of Bonnie Lu Nettles opens the door 221 00:10:39,889 --> 00:10:42,701 to members of Heaven's Gate taking their own lives 222 00:10:42,725 --> 00:10:44,578 in 1997... 223 00:10:44,602 --> 00:10:46,330 -Sure, we know it's the same Christ who... 224 00:10:46,354 --> 00:10:48,999 - then it's this man that blows that door 225 00:10:49,023 --> 00:10:50,793 right off its hinges. 226 00:10:50,817 --> 00:10:52,878 -David Koresh was dangerous, 227 00:10:52,902 --> 00:10:55,446 irrational, and probably insane. 228 00:10:59,284 --> 00:11:00,719 -At the start of the '90s, 229 00:11:00,743 --> 00:11:02,763 the number-one book among American Christians 230 00:11:02,787 --> 00:11:05,933 is a fictionalized account of the end of the world 231 00:11:05,957 --> 00:11:08,644 called the "Left Behind" series. 232 00:11:08,668 --> 00:11:10,771 -It's a retelling of the Book of Revelation. 233 00:11:10,795 --> 00:11:12,857 Hundreds of millions of people being killed, 234 00:11:12,881 --> 00:11:16,569 {\an8}with demons and angels fighting and meteors falling 235 00:11:16,593 --> 00:11:19,530 {\an8}and rivers of blood and government conspiracies, 236 00:11:19,554 --> 00:11:23,617 and this was... this was pop Christian culture. 237 00:11:23,641 --> 00:11:26,287 -The books remain New York Times best sellers 238 00:11:26,311 --> 00:11:28,914 through the early '90s. 239 00:11:28,938 --> 00:11:34,211 And while Heaven's Gate continues its self-exile, 240 00:11:34,235 --> 00:11:36,297 another group preaching Armageddon 241 00:11:36,321 --> 00:11:39,967 is about to grab the nation's attention. 242 00:11:39,991 --> 00:11:41,635 -The groups we tend to think about, 243 00:11:41,659 --> 00:11:44,263 when we... when we're thinking about doomsday cults, 244 00:11:44,287 --> 00:11:45,556 well, Heaven's Gate is one of them, 245 00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:46,807 but probably the best example might be 246 00:11:46,831 --> 00:11:48,851 the Branch Davidians in Waco. 247 00:11:48,875 --> 00:11:50,978 Both think they're interpreting the Bible 248 00:11:51,002 --> 00:11:52,396 and thought they were standing 249 00:11:52,420 --> 00:11:56,650 at the precipice of the... of the end times. 250 00:11:56,674 --> 00:11:59,612 -But for the Branch Davidians, the end times come 251 00:11:59,636 --> 00:12:04,491 a little bit sooner than they do for Heaven's Gate. 252 00:12:04,515 --> 00:12:08,954 -On February 28th in 1993, I was sitting at home. 253 00:12:08,978 --> 00:12:11,957 I was then living in Dallas. My phone rang. 254 00:12:11,981 --> 00:12:15,294 It was my boss who said, "There's been a shoot-out, 255 00:12:15,318 --> 00:12:17,171 they're a bunch of religious nuts. 256 00:12:17,195 --> 00:12:18,464 It sounds like your kind of people. 257 00:12:18,488 --> 00:12:19,548 Get down there." 258 00:12:19,572 --> 00:12:21,800 {\an8}I'm Lee Hancock. I'm a journalist 259 00:12:21,824 --> 00:12:25,804 {\an8}and worked for 24 years for The Dallas Morning News. 260 00:12:25,828 --> 00:12:27,598 Let's start with David Koresh. 261 00:12:27,622 --> 00:12:29,308 Do you consider yourself a prophet? 262 00:12:29,332 --> 00:12:32,353 -Let me say this much. I consider myself 263 00:12:32,377 --> 00:12:34,939 someone who's found grace in the sight of Christ. 264 00:12:34,963 --> 00:12:36,315 And if I can be a prophet to you 265 00:12:36,339 --> 00:12:38,567 by giving you a study about the Bible, 266 00:12:38,591 --> 00:12:40,527 then, yeah, I'd say I'm a prophet. 267 00:12:40,551 --> 00:12:45,699 {\an1}-David Koresh was the child of a single mother who had him at 14, 268 00:12:45,723 --> 00:12:50,537 spent some time in East Texas living with his grandmother, 269 00:12:50,561 --> 00:12:55,042 who took him to a Seventh-day Adventist church. 270 00:12:55,066 --> 00:12:58,545 The Seventh-day Adventists are a religious group 271 00:12:58,569 --> 00:13:02,883 that focus a lot of their attention on the end times 272 00:13:02,907 --> 00:13:04,635 when Christ will return 273 00:13:04,659 --> 00:13:06,845 and there will be a great conflict, 274 00:13:06,869 --> 00:13:09,640 and the believers will go to Heaven 275 00:13:09,664 --> 00:13:13,644 and everyone else will suffer and go to Hell. 276 00:13:13,668 --> 00:13:18,023 Well, there was an offshoot of the Seventh-day Adventists 277 00:13:18,047 --> 00:13:20,734 called the Branch Davidians. 278 00:13:20,758 --> 00:13:24,530 -The Branch Davidian were founded in the 1950s 279 00:13:24,554 --> 00:13:26,699 and built their new Mount Carmel Center 280 00:13:26,723 --> 00:13:30,035 on the outskirts of Waco, Texas. 281 00:13:30,059 --> 00:13:31,829 -By the early 1990s, 282 00:13:31,853 --> 00:13:34,748 {\an8}David Koresh had taken complete control 283 00:13:34,772 --> 00:13:37,292 {\an8}over the Waco compound. 284 00:13:37,316 --> 00:13:41,338 -He said he'd had a vision and he was the Messiah come back 285 00:13:41,362 --> 00:13:43,549 and was the figure 286 00:13:43,573 --> 00:13:46,427 that was going to bring the end of the world. 287 00:13:46,451 --> 00:13:48,971 -The followers started buying into it. 288 00:13:48,995 --> 00:13:50,556 They really believed 289 00:13:50,580 --> 00:13:54,268 that he was who was being talked about in the Bible. 290 00:13:54,292 --> 00:13:57,587 He was the new Jesus. 291 00:13:59,672 --> 00:14:01,483 -He was a very exciting figure 292 00:14:01,507 --> 00:14:04,778 and he had a photographic recall of the Bible, 293 00:14:04,802 --> 00:14:07,990 so he could take you to Daniel and Isaiah and then Revelation 294 00:14:08,014 --> 00:14:12,077 and back again in a way that just dazzled people. 295 00:14:12,101 --> 00:14:14,288 -In that day, quote-unquote, it says, 296 00:14:14,312 --> 00:14:17,791 "Lord, you will not be ashamed for all your sins 297 00:14:17,815 --> 00:14:19,043 you committed against me." 298 00:14:19,067 --> 00:14:21,962 -And so those folks who followed him 299 00:14:21,986 --> 00:14:23,797 absolutely believe 300 00:14:23,821 --> 00:14:26,633 that he was the Messiah. 301 00:14:26,657 --> 00:14:30,012 -Like Marshall Applewhite over in Heaven's Gate, 302 00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:33,682 David Koresh claims to be the second coming sent 303 00:14:33,706 --> 00:14:36,060 to help humanity reach the next level 304 00:14:36,084 --> 00:14:39,646 after Armageddon destroys the planet. 305 00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:44,651 For Applewhite, that means a trip to Heaven in a UFO, 306 00:14:44,675 --> 00:14:47,946 but for Koresh, it's a much more violent picture. 307 00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:51,408 -He taught that if you were going to die for God, 308 00:14:51,432 --> 00:14:53,285 you had to kill for God. 309 00:14:53,309 --> 00:14:58,540 And the outside evil forces of the world were gonna come in 310 00:14:58,564 --> 00:15:00,709 and they were going to have to fight 311 00:15:00,733 --> 00:15:04,254 and they were gonna go up in a fiery battle. 312 00:15:04,278 --> 00:15:06,489 They're a laugh riot. [ Chuckles ] 313 00:15:07,865 --> 00:15:10,177 -It's not just their different visions 314 00:15:10,201 --> 00:15:11,887 of how the world will end 315 00:15:11,911 --> 00:15:15,599 that sets the Branch Davidians and Heaven's Gate apart. 316 00:15:15,623 --> 00:15:18,102 -Hi, Alex. [ Laughs ] 317 00:15:18,126 --> 00:15:22,022 -It's also how they approach their sexuality. 318 00:15:22,046 --> 00:15:23,690 -For Heaven's Gate, 319 00:15:23,714 --> 00:15:25,484 abandoning their humanity was key because in their mind, 320 00:15:25,508 --> 00:15:28,112 it was about going... Going beyond this earth, 321 00:15:28,136 --> 00:15:30,864 and that culminated in... In celibacy. 322 00:15:30,888 --> 00:15:33,617 - [ Laughs ] - Ideally, that meant 323 00:15:33,641 --> 00:15:35,160 not just sort of external sexuality 324 00:15:35,184 --> 00:15:37,037 in terms of actually you couldn't have sex. 325 00:15:37,061 --> 00:15:38,914 That was just the beginning. 326 00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:41,125 But the idea was that you would eventually, after long enough, 327 00:15:41,149 --> 00:15:43,043 give up even your sex drive. 328 00:15:43,067 --> 00:15:46,505 -Welcome to "Beyond Human." 329 00:15:46,529 --> 00:15:49,258 -They wanted to be basically space angels, 330 00:15:49,282 --> 00:15:51,927 these genderless beings who... 331 00:15:51,951 --> 00:15:54,346 Who didn't need to eat or to sleep 332 00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:56,640 or to procreate or even to breathe. 333 00:15:56,664 --> 00:15:58,433 It was... It was perfection. 334 00:15:58,457 --> 00:16:00,936 It's what you find in an ancient text talking about the angels. 335 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,689 {\an8}-These... These flesh vehicles, I mean... 336 00:16:03,713 --> 00:16:06,984 {\an8}-Some students desired to have their vehicles neutered, 337 00:16:07,008 --> 00:16:09,611 {\an8}and I'm one of those students that did that. 338 00:16:09,635 --> 00:16:13,073 {\an8}And I can't tell you how free that has made me feel. 339 00:16:13,097 --> 00:16:15,659 I've been here long enough from the time 340 00:16:15,683 --> 00:16:19,538 I had that operation to know the freedom that it offers me. 341 00:16:19,562 --> 00:16:24,168 -Castration in the group was never a requirement. 342 00:16:24,192 --> 00:16:28,213 {\an8}It was always an optional thing to do, 343 00:16:28,237 --> 00:16:29,882 and the reason for that is because 344 00:16:29,906 --> 00:16:32,926 they don't have any sexuality in the next level. 345 00:16:32,950 --> 00:16:35,137 They don't reproduce. 346 00:16:35,161 --> 00:16:37,598 Their bodies don't even have the plumbing for it, 347 00:16:37,622 --> 00:16:42,477 and so we have to prepare our mind for that ahead of time. 348 00:16:42,501 --> 00:16:44,313 Otherwise, they don't really want us to be 349 00:16:44,337 --> 00:16:45,772 on board their spacecraft. 350 00:16:45,796 --> 00:16:50,611 And so, yes, I wanted to be castrated. 351 00:16:50,635 --> 00:16:52,404 -There are different stories about how 352 00:16:52,428 --> 00:16:54,698 the castrations come up. 353 00:16:54,722 --> 00:16:56,783 What everyone agrees on is actually it was members 354 00:16:56,807 --> 00:16:58,535 of the movement rather than Do himself 355 00:16:58,559 --> 00:17:03,290 who thought that one way to alleviate their constant anxiety 356 00:17:03,314 --> 00:17:04,625 about controlling their sexuality 357 00:17:04,649 --> 00:17:08,170 was simply not to have any sexuality. 358 00:17:08,194 --> 00:17:10,714 -When Do ask me about it, he asked me 359 00:17:10,738 --> 00:17:15,219 if I had any reservations, and I said to him, 360 00:17:15,243 --> 00:17:19,306 "Well, my vehicle isn't looking forward to it, 361 00:17:19,330 --> 00:17:23,060 but I'm overriding my vehicle." 362 00:17:23,084 --> 00:17:27,147 But then he said, "Who's gonna go first?" 363 00:17:27,171 --> 00:17:30,859 And so what we did when we had a situation like that 364 00:17:30,883 --> 00:17:35,822 where it didn't matter, we would do a coin toss. 365 00:17:35,846 --> 00:17:38,325 And so the coin toss was to decide 366 00:17:38,349 --> 00:17:40,452 whether we wanted to go first or not. 367 00:17:40,476 --> 00:17:47,084 {\an8}♪♪ 368 00:17:47,108 --> 00:17:52,047 -Sawyer loses the coin toss and never gets castrated. 369 00:17:52,071 --> 00:17:55,133 But eight other members, including Applewhite, 370 00:17:55,157 --> 00:17:57,928 do go through with the procedure. 371 00:17:57,952 --> 00:18:01,974 {\an8}♪♪ 372 00:18:01,998 --> 00:18:04,935 The Waco Branch Davidians, on the other hand, 373 00:18:04,959 --> 00:18:07,187 have their own questionable method 374 00:18:07,211 --> 00:18:10,065 of controlling their sexuality. 375 00:18:10,089 --> 00:18:14,444 -For the Branch Davidian, their interpretation of the Bible 376 00:18:14,468 --> 00:18:16,697 called for celibacy from some members, 377 00:18:16,721 --> 00:18:18,073 but it actually called for their leader, 378 00:18:18,097 --> 00:18:20,534 David Koresh, to take multiple wives, 379 00:18:20,558 --> 00:18:24,538 including underage women and girls. 380 00:18:24,562 --> 00:18:26,248 -At that time, 381 00:18:26,272 --> 00:18:29,042 he started implementing his own rules and lifestyles. 382 00:18:29,066 --> 00:18:32,170 He started having sex with a lot of the females, 383 00:18:32,194 --> 00:18:34,423 whether they are married or not. 384 00:18:34,447 --> 00:18:37,134 This was a problem because he started doing this 385 00:18:37,158 --> 00:18:39,344 with girls as young as 12. 386 00:18:39,368 --> 00:18:42,097 -He came up with the "New Light." 387 00:18:42,121 --> 00:18:43,807 That was a teaching that said 388 00:18:43,831 --> 00:18:46,768 not only could he have multiple wives, 389 00:18:46,792 --> 00:18:50,147 but no one... No man could have wives 390 00:18:50,171 --> 00:18:52,774 and he was going to take all of their wives, 391 00:18:52,798 --> 00:18:54,818 every member of the group. 392 00:18:54,842 --> 00:18:57,571 -Some of the members that had their wives 393 00:18:57,595 --> 00:18:59,781 that were now having sex with David Koresh 394 00:18:59,805 --> 00:19:03,952 or having his child, some of them left rather upset, 395 00:19:03,976 --> 00:19:06,079 so they ended up making complaints. 396 00:19:06,103 --> 00:19:07,789 -So how's God gonna talk? 397 00:19:07,813 --> 00:19:09,833 -Those complaints, along with reports 398 00:19:09,857 --> 00:19:12,836 that Koresh is stockpiling weapons, 399 00:19:12,860 --> 00:19:17,174 finally make their way to the ATF and the FBI, 400 00:19:17,198 --> 00:19:19,968 who team up to go and arrest Koresh. 401 00:19:19,992 --> 00:19:22,262 -Heavily armed law-enforcement officers have now 402 00:19:22,286 --> 00:19:26,892 totally surrounded a ranch outside Waco, Texas. 403 00:19:26,916 --> 00:19:28,727 -To Koresh and his followers, 404 00:19:28,751 --> 00:19:33,565 the arrival of armed federal officers outside their compound 405 00:19:33,589 --> 00:19:35,025 is the confrontation 406 00:19:35,049 --> 00:19:38,320 they've been preparing to fight all along. 407 00:19:38,344 --> 00:19:42,366 -It looks like David Koresh's prophecies are coming true. 408 00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:46,244 You know, there is Babylon, the US government, 409 00:19:46,268 --> 00:19:48,979 on your doorstep ready to get it on with you. 410 00:19:53,275 --> 00:19:55,128 {\an8}-♪ There's a mad man living in Waco ♪ 411 00:19:55,152 --> 00:19:59,925 ♪ He's bowing his knee to bed ♪ 412 00:19:59,949 --> 00:20:04,388 ♪ Won't you help, Mr. Sheriff? ♪ 413 00:20:04,412 --> 00:20:07,808 ♪ So we won't fail ♪ 414 00:20:07,832 --> 00:20:10,268 -The Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, 415 00:20:10,292 --> 00:20:12,979 after a months-long investigation, 416 00:20:13,003 --> 00:20:17,734 was going in with a major operation to arrest Koresh 417 00:20:17,758 --> 00:20:20,362 {\an8}for gun violations and search the compound 418 00:20:20,386 --> 00:20:23,365 {\an8}for evidence of illegal weapons. 419 00:20:23,389 --> 00:20:25,659 In their search warrant, 420 00:20:25,683 --> 00:20:28,870 they included allegations of child abuse. 421 00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:31,665 He's sleeping with underage children 422 00:20:31,689 --> 00:20:36,211 and he may be leading them in a suicide pact. 423 00:20:36,235 --> 00:20:43,093 The problem was that Koresh and his group had been tipped off, 424 00:20:43,117 --> 00:20:45,720 so they had an hour to prepare, 425 00:20:45,744 --> 00:20:49,182 And when the ATF pulled up 426 00:20:49,206 --> 00:20:53,228 to this remote compound on a barren plain, 427 00:20:53,252 --> 00:20:56,398 the Davidians were ready for them. 428 00:20:56,422 --> 00:21:00,902 I mean, they had enough weaponry for a small army 429 00:21:00,926 --> 00:21:05,365 and enough weaponry to take on the federal government, 430 00:21:05,389 --> 00:21:07,409 which they did. 431 00:21:07,433 --> 00:21:09,202 -Sounds like they're firing now. 432 00:21:09,226 --> 00:21:11,037 And he says that y'all are making the move 433 00:21:11,061 --> 00:21:12,873 and they're gonna defend themselves 434 00:21:12,897 --> 00:21:15,041 to the last men, so [speaks indistinctly] 435 00:21:15,065 --> 00:21:16,293 [ Gunfire ] 436 00:21:16,317 --> 00:21:19,671 [ Speaking indistinctly ] 437 00:21:19,695 --> 00:21:21,465 -We're trying to stop the ambulance. 438 00:21:21,489 --> 00:21:24,092 - Why? - We're trying to stop the ambulance. 439 00:21:24,116 --> 00:21:26,094 -We're trying to stop the ambulance now. 440 00:21:26,118 --> 00:21:28,180 Hold your fire. Please hold your fire. 441 00:21:28,204 --> 00:21:32,058 -4 agents were dead, 17 were wounded. 442 00:21:32,082 --> 00:21:36,271 A number of Davidians, including Koresh, were wounded. 443 00:21:36,295 --> 00:21:39,774 Two were actually killed by ATF gunfire. 444 00:21:39,798 --> 00:21:40,984 -Well, I've been hit through... 445 00:21:41,008 --> 00:21:43,862 Ah! Watch out. Okay. [ Groans ] 446 00:21:43,886 --> 00:21:45,405 I've been... I've been hit to the stomach, 447 00:21:45,429 --> 00:21:47,657 and I think it broke my pelvic bone. 448 00:21:47,681 --> 00:21:52,454 -With Waco, the most important element is who shot first... 449 00:21:52,478 --> 00:21:56,208 {\an8}Was it the ATF or was it the Waco compound? 450 00:21:56,232 --> 00:21:59,628 -The Davidians would later say and Koresh would later claim 451 00:21:59,652 --> 00:22:01,963 that ATF shot first. 452 00:22:01,987 --> 00:22:03,840 -And there's still a fight about that today. 453 00:22:03,864 --> 00:22:06,259 There's still people that take sides. 454 00:22:06,283 --> 00:22:10,180 If you think that the ATF did the first shot, 455 00:22:10,204 --> 00:22:13,767 it's because you... you feel the government is intrusive. 456 00:22:13,791 --> 00:22:17,270 And if you're on the other side, then you think, of course, 457 00:22:17,294 --> 00:22:18,980 the Waco, they were the bad people. 458 00:22:19,004 --> 00:22:21,399 David Koresh was holding them hostage 459 00:22:21,423 --> 00:22:24,444 and he's the one that did the first shot, 460 00:22:24,468 --> 00:22:27,489 so it's his fault. 461 00:22:27,513 --> 00:22:29,366 -After that first gunfight, 462 00:22:29,390 --> 00:22:33,912 federal officers lay siege to the compound... 463 00:22:33,936 --> 00:22:37,958 {\an8}while the media lay siege to the federal officers. 464 00:22:37,982 --> 00:22:41,127 {\an8}-This was day 16 of the standoff in central Texas. 465 00:22:41,151 --> 00:22:43,838 {\an8}-The tense standoff between cult leader David Koresh 466 00:22:43,862 --> 00:22:46,258 {\an8}and federal agents is now entering its fourth week. 467 00:22:46,282 --> 00:22:49,553 {\an8}-This was the 48th day of the standoff between... 468 00:22:49,577 --> 00:22:51,972 -To help contain the situation, 469 00:22:51,996 --> 00:22:57,978 the ATF and FBI call in support from the local military base. 470 00:22:58,002 --> 00:23:00,480 -There was a point the head of the hostage rescue team said, 471 00:23:00,504 --> 00:23:03,233 "Well, I'm gonna bring in an Abrams tank." 472 00:23:03,257 --> 00:23:07,404 And so literally they ordered an Abrams tank to come up. 473 00:23:07,428 --> 00:23:12,367 The problem with that was that if you are a Davidian 474 00:23:12,391 --> 00:23:16,329 looking at this army amassed outside 475 00:23:16,353 --> 00:23:20,292 with the biggest tank in the US arsenal, you know, 476 00:23:20,316 --> 00:23:25,755 it looks like David Koresh's prophecies are coming true. 477 00:23:25,779 --> 00:23:29,509 Koresh taught his followers and they fervently believed 478 00:23:29,533 --> 00:23:32,137 the only way to get to Heaven 479 00:23:32,161 --> 00:23:37,100 was to go with him through this fiery ending 480 00:23:37,124 --> 00:23:40,312 where they knew that they were gonna die. 481 00:23:40,336 --> 00:23:43,481 -When they come busting in on my door with guns drawn 482 00:23:43,505 --> 00:23:45,108 and pointed in the air 483 00:23:45,132 --> 00:23:47,110 and someone fire at me, then I'm gonna lay down 484 00:23:47,134 --> 00:23:49,279 and die for anybody. 485 00:23:49,303 --> 00:23:51,948 It just ain't gonna happen. 486 00:23:51,972 --> 00:23:54,451 -After a 51-day siege, 487 00:23:54,475 --> 00:23:56,411 federal agents bring it to an end 488 00:23:56,435 --> 00:23:59,855 by driving a tank straight into the compound. 489 00:24:03,275 --> 00:24:05,420 News networks from all over the world beamed their 490 00:24:05,444 --> 00:24:08,947 live coverage to millions of households. 491 00:24:11,075 --> 00:24:14,638 Also watching are members of Heaven's Gate. 492 00:24:14,662 --> 00:24:18,224 {\an8}-Well, we began to see on the news the experience 493 00:24:18,248 --> 00:24:20,060 {\an8}in Waco, Texas, 494 00:24:20,084 --> 00:24:23,063 {\an8}with the Branch Davidians and David Koresh. 495 00:24:23,087 --> 00:24:25,940 We were following the news every day on that. 496 00:24:25,964 --> 00:24:28,777 At one point, we were watching TV, 497 00:24:28,801 --> 00:24:30,820 and that's when the fire started. 498 00:24:30,844 --> 00:24:34,491 -We have what appears to be a fire going on right now 499 00:24:34,515 --> 00:24:37,202 raging at the Branch Davidian compound. 500 00:24:37,226 --> 00:24:42,582 -And we're watching it live and we were all aghast 501 00:24:42,606 --> 00:24:44,209 that that happened 502 00:24:44,233 --> 00:24:46,878 and that, you know, all the military presence 503 00:24:46,902 --> 00:24:50,090 and everything that was happening there. 504 00:24:50,114 --> 00:24:54,344 -You had this national trauma aired live 505 00:24:54,368 --> 00:24:58,181 on national television. 506 00:24:58,205 --> 00:25:00,892 You knew when you watched that fire, 507 00:25:00,916 --> 00:25:04,521 you were watching more than 70 people, 508 00:25:04,545 --> 00:25:08,775 including more than two dozen children, 509 00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:12,386 dying in that fire right over your lunch hour. 510 00:25:14,388 --> 00:25:17,909 -In the wake of Waco, Do Applewhite believed 511 00:25:17,933 --> 00:25:21,913 that the government was going to come get them and kill them 512 00:25:21,937 --> 00:25:23,998 and that ultimately this was an okay thing 513 00:25:24,022 --> 00:25:25,917 because this is what would resolve the problem 514 00:25:25,941 --> 00:25:27,627 of how to get themselves to the next level. 515 00:25:27,651 --> 00:25:31,631 -He talked about how we might buy 516 00:25:31,655 --> 00:25:35,385 a... a rifle or two 517 00:25:35,409 --> 00:25:38,555 and use it... Not against anybody, 518 00:25:38,579 --> 00:25:42,392 but to pose a threat so that 519 00:25:42,416 --> 00:25:46,312 if the government thought of us as a fanatical cult 520 00:25:46,336 --> 00:25:49,691 and that knew that we had weapons, that they might 521 00:25:49,715 --> 00:25:54,112 be the instrument of our exiting our vehicles. 522 00:25:54,136 --> 00:25:57,073 -Look at the camera. You look great. 523 00:25:57,097 --> 00:26:01,661 -But suicide by cop was never a possibility. 524 00:26:01,685 --> 00:26:05,373 -They had no interest, no ability to use weapons. 525 00:26:05,397 --> 00:26:07,834 But ultimately, the government had no interest 526 00:26:07,858 --> 00:26:10,837 in coming to get this group. They didn't break any laws. 527 00:26:10,861 --> 00:26:14,966 This was a movement that paid their library fines in the week 528 00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:16,593 before their suicides. 529 00:26:16,617 --> 00:26:20,096 There was no interest from anyone in raiding them. 530 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:22,182 -For Heaven's Gate, a violent standoff 531 00:26:22,206 --> 00:26:25,351 with law enforcement wasn't in their future, 532 00:26:25,375 --> 00:26:28,229 which forces Marshall Applewhite to come up 533 00:26:28,253 --> 00:26:30,899 with an alternate plan for his members to, 534 00:26:30,923 --> 00:26:34,068 as he puts it, "shed their vehicles." 535 00:26:34,092 --> 00:26:36,154 -This is your chance. I'm here. 536 00:26:36,178 --> 00:26:37,763 I can take you out of here. 537 00:26:42,184 --> 00:26:43,787 -The website says the group started in 1975 in Houston 538 00:26:43,811 --> 00:26:45,580 and refers to this article in The New York Times 539 00:26:45,604 --> 00:26:46,790 about the recruiting efforts of Marshall Herff Applewhite. 540 00:26:46,814 --> 00:26:50,376 -In 1993, just months after Waco, 541 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,796 Heaven's Gate stages their comeback 542 00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:55,215 when they take out a full-page ad 543 00:26:55,239 --> 00:26:57,926 in a national newspaper. 544 00:26:57,950 --> 00:27:00,887 -The group bursts into public consciousness again. 545 00:27:00,911 --> 00:27:02,222 {\an8}They do it in a couple of ways. 546 00:27:02,246 --> 00:27:05,058 {\an8}One is this 1993 USA Today ad, 547 00:27:05,082 --> 00:27:08,478 {\an8}which they take trying to explain that they're back 548 00:27:08,502 --> 00:27:10,897 and that they're offering the one chance for humanity 549 00:27:10,921 --> 00:27:14,734 to escape our planet and to achieve immortal life 550 00:27:14,758 --> 00:27:18,238 in this perfected next level, heavenly state. 551 00:27:18,262 --> 00:27:20,240 -We don't know if we're gonna take these flesh 552 00:27:20,264 --> 00:27:22,367 bodies onboard that craft 553 00:27:22,391 --> 00:27:25,829 or if we'll leave these flesh bodies behind. 554 00:27:25,853 --> 00:27:28,081 -This time around, Heaven's Gate starts 555 00:27:28,105 --> 00:27:31,543 blending their message with pop culture. 556 00:27:31,567 --> 00:27:33,169 -There were members of the group who said, 557 00:27:33,193 --> 00:27:36,256 "Hey, let's try to repitch everything we're saying 558 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:37,590 with the lens of science fiction. 559 00:27:37,614 --> 00:27:40,093 Instead of calling Do Jesus Christ, 560 00:27:40,117 --> 00:27:44,764 let's call Joe the captain." 561 00:27:44,788 --> 00:27:48,184 -That year, "Star Trek: The Next Generation" is pulling 562 00:27:48,208 --> 00:27:52,438 in an average of 20 million viewers per episode, 563 00:27:52,462 --> 00:27:53,815 and members of Heaven's Gate 564 00:27:53,839 --> 00:27:57,277 become some of the show's biggest fans. 565 00:27:57,301 --> 00:27:59,571 -They all had emblems on their shirts, 566 00:27:59,595 --> 00:28:01,656 just like they were part of "Star Trek." 567 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,242 -Now, if you would hold your patch, 568 00:28:04,266 --> 00:28:07,954 maybe we can zoom in on the patch that... Great. 569 00:28:07,978 --> 00:28:09,789 -It's laughable now, 570 00:28:09,813 --> 00:28:11,791 {\an8}but people really believed it. 571 00:28:11,815 --> 00:28:14,151 {\an8}They were really into it. 572 00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:21,634 -We watched "Star Trek: Next Generation," 573 00:28:21,658 --> 00:28:25,471 I guess you could say religiously. 574 00:28:25,495 --> 00:28:28,308 And Do enjoyed them because he thought 575 00:28:28,332 --> 00:28:32,520 that it was a good example of a crew 576 00:28:32,544 --> 00:28:35,631 in the next level working on a spacecraft. 577 00:28:37,716 --> 00:28:42,947 In a next level crew, there are no human behaviors, 578 00:28:42,971 --> 00:28:44,240 there's no competition, 579 00:28:44,264 --> 00:28:48,995 there's no relationships, no ego. 580 00:28:49,019 --> 00:28:50,538 -We're gonna sail around and we're gonna 581 00:28:50,562 --> 00:28:53,541 take care of planets and help civilizations, 582 00:28:53,565 --> 00:28:55,793 and we're going to bring peace and tranquility 583 00:28:55,817 --> 00:28:57,837 and we're gonna bring this sort of utopian ideal, 584 00:28:57,861 --> 00:28:59,839 which goes back to Gene Roddenberry's vision 585 00:28:59,863 --> 00:29:01,531 for "Star Trek." 586 00:29:04,660 --> 00:29:08,681 -Heaven's Gate also starts exploring a real-life technology 587 00:29:08,705 --> 00:29:12,352 that's just beginning to change the world. 588 00:29:12,376 --> 00:29:15,813 {\an8}-Ti and Do were always encouraging us to upgrade. 589 00:29:15,837 --> 00:29:20,360 {\an8}And so we got into technology and eventually became 590 00:29:20,384 --> 00:29:22,862 the business known as Higher Source. 591 00:29:22,886 --> 00:29:26,199 -Higher Source was a Web design and hosting company 592 00:29:26,223 --> 00:29:29,285 that would create websites. They had a number of clients. 593 00:29:29,309 --> 00:29:31,329 You have to remember, this was... this was a time 594 00:29:31,353 --> 00:29:32,747 before there was software 595 00:29:32,771 --> 00:29:34,165 which was easily automated making a website. 596 00:29:34,189 --> 00:29:35,917 If you wanted to make a website, 597 00:29:35,941 --> 00:29:37,210 you had to know HTML, 598 00:29:37,234 --> 00:29:38,795 you had to know Java, JavaScript. 599 00:29:38,819 --> 00:29:41,589 And these were all skills that they learned. 600 00:29:41,613 --> 00:29:44,050 And these were skills that paid really, 601 00:29:44,074 --> 00:29:46,970 really well back in the '90s. 602 00:29:46,994 --> 00:29:49,514 This was a way in which the group could afford 603 00:29:49,538 --> 00:29:51,349 to live comfortably. 604 00:29:51,373 --> 00:29:52,892 By the end of the group's existence, 605 00:29:52,916 --> 00:29:54,644 they were in a gated community, 606 00:29:54,668 --> 00:29:57,981 they were in a mansion which they could comfortably rent. 607 00:29:58,005 --> 00:30:00,650 -It's during this time period that Heaven's Gate 608 00:30:00,674 --> 00:30:03,736 manages to attract a few new members. 609 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,989 -The Heaven's Gate cult recruited young members 610 00:30:06,013 --> 00:30:08,366 across the country. This video was taken 611 00:30:08,390 --> 00:30:10,493 at a recruiting session in New Hampshire. 612 00:30:10,517 --> 00:30:13,621 -We're talking about a place that has a real existence 613 00:30:13,645 --> 00:30:14,914 outside of time 614 00:30:14,938 --> 00:30:16,791 of the human kingdom and outside... 615 00:30:16,815 --> 00:30:22,088 -One person who signs on is 21-year-old Gail Maeder. 616 00:30:22,112 --> 00:30:25,675 -There's our... So we're getting a little shadow on her, so... 617 00:30:25,699 --> 00:30:27,552 There. Great. 618 00:30:27,576 --> 00:30:31,973 -My sister was very much a hippie bohemian at heart. 619 00:30:31,997 --> 00:30:33,766 There was always a lot of tie dye 620 00:30:33,790 --> 00:30:36,436 and that type of thing. 621 00:30:36,460 --> 00:30:37,729 I'm Dan Maeder. 622 00:30:37,753 --> 00:30:41,274 {\an8}I am Gail Maeder's younger brother. 623 00:30:41,298 --> 00:30:44,444 {\an8}You know, my first indication that anything had gone wrong 624 00:30:44,468 --> 00:30:48,656 with my sister was when we received the flier 625 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,286 from the the group she had joined. 626 00:30:53,310 --> 00:30:55,455 -"Dear Mom and Dad, just a little note 627 00:30:55,479 --> 00:30:57,498 wishing everyone there the best. 628 00:30:57,522 --> 00:31:00,501 I think my choices in life might puzzle you at times, 629 00:31:00,525 --> 00:31:02,462 but I really want you to be aware that I'm doing 630 00:31:02,486 --> 00:31:06,215 exactly what I want to and it makes me very happy." 631 00:31:06,239 --> 00:31:07,633 - Can you hear okay? - Yes. 632 00:31:07,657 --> 00:31:10,261 - Okay. - Thank you again. 633 00:31:10,285 --> 00:31:12,096 {\an8}I know you said this might be your last interview, 634 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,974 {\an8}and if it is, I'm so grateful that you're doing it with me. 635 00:31:14,998 --> 00:31:19,771 {\an8}-I don't know how good we can do for you, but we'll try. 636 00:31:19,795 --> 00:31:23,775 Gail was very much afraid of dying. 637 00:31:23,799 --> 00:31:26,402 When our cat died, she didn't want to see him. 638 00:31:26,426 --> 00:31:27,779 When her grandfather died, 639 00:31:27,803 --> 00:31:30,990 she didn't want to go to the funeral. 640 00:31:31,014 --> 00:31:33,743 I guess with everybody, it's a fear of unknown, 641 00:31:33,767 --> 00:31:37,830 and I think maybe that was why she was a little bit afraid. 642 00:31:37,854 --> 00:31:40,917 Heaven's Gate believed that by being in this group, 643 00:31:40,941 --> 00:31:44,504 you could overcome anything on this earth. 644 00:31:44,528 --> 00:31:47,507 You would go to Heaven, board a spaceship. 645 00:31:47,531 --> 00:31:51,844 You would never know death. You would never know pain. 646 00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:55,264 -Right about the time that that flier showed up 647 00:31:55,288 --> 00:31:59,918 is when our entire lives became cults. 648 00:32:01,378 --> 00:32:03,231 -Worried about Gail's safety, 649 00:32:03,255 --> 00:32:05,066 the Maeder family travels from their home 650 00:32:05,090 --> 00:32:10,404 in Long Island to Ohio for an anti-cult convention. 651 00:32:10,428 --> 00:32:12,115 -At 13 or 14, 652 00:32:12,139 --> 00:32:14,700 my parents started bringing me to the cult conventions 653 00:32:14,724 --> 00:32:17,036 and some part of the back of my brain is thinking, 654 00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:18,746 "Well, if you ever start a cult, 655 00:32:18,770 --> 00:32:20,164 you're gonna want to know this," 656 00:32:20,188 --> 00:32:22,917 so I was paying attention. 657 00:32:22,941 --> 00:32:26,754 And that all paid off the day that she did call, 658 00:32:26,778 --> 00:32:31,384 and we all knew what to say, what not to say. 659 00:32:31,408 --> 00:32:33,094 -She said, "Is there anybody else 660 00:32:33,118 --> 00:32:34,637 who would like to speak to me?" 661 00:32:34,661 --> 00:32:37,473 And my mother was there. She says, 662 00:32:37,497 --> 00:32:39,350 "Hi, honey, how are you doing? 663 00:32:39,374 --> 00:32:41,060 When are you coming home, baby?" 664 00:32:41,084 --> 00:32:43,938 And she said, "Probably never, Grandma," 665 00:32:43,962 --> 00:32:45,481 and my mother said... broke down 666 00:32:45,505 --> 00:32:47,942 and she said, "Oh, no, you can't do that, honey. 667 00:32:47,966 --> 00:32:51,362 I have to see you. I have to see you." 668 00:32:51,386 --> 00:32:54,782 -I met Gail in 1994 669 00:32:54,806 --> 00:32:56,701 while we were holding public meetings. 670 00:32:56,725 --> 00:32:59,704 She was in the group that I was an overseer of. 671 00:32:59,728 --> 00:33:02,832 Gail was a young vehicle. 672 00:33:02,856 --> 00:33:05,168 But people can make a big mistake 673 00:33:05,192 --> 00:33:06,794 by thinking that a young vehicle 674 00:33:06,818 --> 00:33:11,591 can't be very advanced in their soul development, 675 00:33:11,615 --> 00:33:14,927 and I believe that she was. 676 00:33:14,951 --> 00:33:18,806 -After Gail joins Heaven's Gate, two things happen... 677 00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:21,726 Sawyer leaves the group to deal with personal issues 678 00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:25,062 he feels are preventing him from reaching the next level 679 00:33:25,086 --> 00:33:29,108 and Applewhite finally receives the sign from the heavens 680 00:33:29,132 --> 00:33:33,404 that he spent the past two decades waiting for. 681 00:33:33,428 --> 00:33:38,326 -They believe that there's a UFO traveling behind that comet 682 00:33:38,350 --> 00:33:41,603 as it's coming close to Earth and using the comet as a shield. 683 00:33:45,565 --> 00:33:47,001 -In the mid-'90s, conspiracy theories 684 00:33:47,025 --> 00:33:50,004 start to go mainstream. 685 00:33:50,028 --> 00:33:53,507 After Waco, fundamental Christians become convinced 686 00:33:53,531 --> 00:33:56,385 that the government is out to get them. 687 00:33:56,409 --> 00:33:57,637 -It is a millennium. 688 00:33:57,661 --> 00:33:59,472 You've got a lot of conspiracy theorists. 689 00:33:59,496 --> 00:34:01,307 Quite frankly, you've got a lot of people 690 00:34:01,331 --> 00:34:04,310 who have a certain belief that this millennium 691 00:34:04,334 --> 00:34:08,189 is going to be a holy war or a hate war. 692 00:34:08,213 --> 00:34:12,109 -But for people who believe in the existence of aliens, 693 00:34:12,133 --> 00:34:16,054 it's NASA that they believe is conspiring against them. 694 00:34:18,473 --> 00:34:21,786 Then, in the summer of 1995, 695 00:34:21,810 --> 00:34:26,832 two amateur astronomers named Alan Hale and Thomas Bopp 696 00:34:26,856 --> 00:34:30,628 spot something NASA has seemingly missed... 697 00:34:30,652 --> 00:34:34,757 A massive comet 30 miles in diameter 698 00:34:34,781 --> 00:34:37,510 hurtling through space. 699 00:34:37,534 --> 00:34:41,180 And Heaven's Gate believes there's a deeper truth 700 00:34:41,204 --> 00:34:43,057 that's attached to it. 701 00:34:43,081 --> 00:34:45,142 -The story of the end of Heaven's Gate 702 00:34:45,166 --> 00:34:48,312 cannot be separated from the claims 703 00:34:48,336 --> 00:34:52,191 that Hale-Bopp Comet had a companion. 704 00:34:52,215 --> 00:34:59,115 This idea that there was a giant planet-sized UFO 705 00:34:59,139 --> 00:35:00,700 trailing Hale-Bopp Comet 706 00:35:00,724 --> 00:35:03,577 and that NASA and the government were conspiring 707 00:35:03,601 --> 00:35:06,289 to hide it from the people. 708 00:35:06,313 --> 00:35:07,790 Members of Heaven's Gate said, 709 00:35:07,814 --> 00:35:12,545 "Aha, there's the marker we've been looking for." 710 00:35:12,569 --> 00:35:16,632 -For Applewhite, this is his ticket to the stars. 711 00:35:16,656 --> 00:35:19,385 -You can follow us, 712 00:35:19,409 --> 00:35:22,305 but you cannot stay here and follow us. 713 00:35:22,329 --> 00:35:25,683 -Some members of Heaven's Gate, I think, clearly did believe 714 00:35:25,707 --> 00:35:27,226 that the companion was real. 715 00:35:27,250 --> 00:35:29,562 Others believe that there was something there, 716 00:35:29,586 --> 00:35:30,938 but it wasn't something we could see. 717 00:35:30,962 --> 00:35:33,399 It was on... On a vibratory level. 718 00:35:33,423 --> 00:35:35,276 We couldn't... We couldn't actually see. 719 00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:38,779 It wasn't unreal. It just wasn't visible. 720 00:35:38,803 --> 00:35:42,366 What they all agreed on was that we were all paying attention 721 00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:43,826 and that this was their chance 722 00:35:43,850 --> 00:35:45,661 to show the world the truth of their message. 723 00:35:45,685 --> 00:35:50,541 -We don't care to be aborted by the body that we're wearing. 724 00:35:50,565 --> 00:35:56,839 We care more to abort it, in proof to our Heavenly Father 725 00:35:56,863 --> 00:35:59,342 that we're ready to leave this place. 726 00:35:59,366 --> 00:36:02,762 -They thought a door was open... Well, a gate. 727 00:36:02,786 --> 00:36:04,764 They thought the gates of heaven was open. 728 00:36:04,788 --> 00:36:07,183 This was their chance to leave the planet 729 00:36:07,207 --> 00:36:09,018 they didn't want to be on. They didn't want to be here. 730 00:36:09,042 --> 00:36:10,936 They didn't see themselves as human. 731 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,022 They didn't see our planet as worthwhile. 732 00:36:13,046 --> 00:36:16,442 They didn't see our society as worth saving. 733 00:36:16,466 --> 00:36:17,735 This was the millennial group 734 00:36:17,759 --> 00:36:21,322 and this was the end of the world. 735 00:36:21,346 --> 00:36:23,824 -The website says, "If you study our material, 736 00:36:23,848 --> 00:36:26,494 you will understand our joy," 737 00:36:26,518 --> 00:36:28,287 but instead, many are having difficulty 738 00:36:28,311 --> 00:36:29,747 comprehending that, 739 00:36:29,771 --> 00:36:31,457 how a group of people can kill themselves 740 00:36:31,481 --> 00:36:34,877 in the belief that the afterlife can be found on a UFO. 741 00:36:34,901 --> 00:36:37,505 -How do you feel about what is ahead for us? 742 00:36:37,529 --> 00:36:39,882 {\an8}-Oh, this... 743 00:36:39,906 --> 00:36:42,951 {\an8}this is the happiest day of my life. [ Laughs ] 744 00:36:46,621 --> 00:36:49,892 {\an8}-For those that we've left behind, 745 00:36:49,916 --> 00:36:52,436 {\an8}we're going on to something greater and better 746 00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:55,523 {\an8}and that we hope that someday you will understand this 747 00:36:55,547 --> 00:36:57,215 {\an8}and you might join us. 748 00:36:59,175 --> 00:37:00,820 {\an8}-Maybe they're crazy, for all I know, 749 00:37:00,844 --> 00:37:02,863 {\an8}but I don't have any choice but to go for it 750 00:37:02,887 --> 00:37:06,158 {\an8}because I've been on this planet for 31 years, 751 00:37:06,182 --> 00:37:09,245 {\an8}and there's nothing here for me. 752 00:37:09,269 --> 00:37:11,747 {\an8}-We wanted to let you know that you might need 753 00:37:11,771 --> 00:37:14,834 {\an8}to get someone else to finish up your website right now 754 00:37:14,858 --> 00:37:18,629 {\an8}and that we might see you all again and then we might not. 755 00:37:18,653 --> 00:37:22,007 {\an8}But we hope that you remember us as we were 756 00:37:22,031 --> 00:37:23,634 and not how other people are going to try 757 00:37:23,658 --> 00:37:25,469 and tell you that we are. 758 00:37:25,493 --> 00:37:29,432 And one last thing we'd like to say is 39 to beam up. 759 00:37:29,456 --> 00:37:31,100 Thank you. 760 00:37:31,124 --> 00:37:39,124 {\an8}♪♪ 761 00:37:40,884 --> 00:37:43,946 -On this Easter Sunday, a day for celebrating life 762 00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:46,449 and rebirth, the struggle goes on to understand 763 00:37:46,473 --> 00:37:50,161 how 39 people could have chosen death. 764 00:37:50,185 --> 00:37:54,206 -The Heaven's Gate exits took place over a three-day period. 765 00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:57,209 They dressed in... In their uniforms, 766 00:37:57,233 --> 00:37:59,837 and then, in ritual order, 767 00:37:59,861 --> 00:38:02,506 they... they committed suicide. 768 00:38:02,530 --> 00:38:05,176 They ingested poison. 769 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,386 -They thought they would just fall asleep 770 00:38:07,410 --> 00:38:13,058 and then wake up their souls on the spaceship. 771 00:38:13,082 --> 00:38:17,146 -They tied bags over their heads and suffocated to death. 772 00:38:17,170 --> 00:38:20,232 This was the method recommended by a euthanasia handbook 773 00:38:20,256 --> 00:38:22,193 that they had picked up. 774 00:38:22,217 --> 00:38:24,945 The last two people didn't have anyone to clean up for them, 775 00:38:24,969 --> 00:38:28,223 {\an1}so they were found with the with the bags still over their heads. 776 00:38:31,184 --> 00:38:33,787 -Danny saw it first, and he was the first one 777 00:38:33,811 --> 00:38:36,040 to call in to the medical examiner, 778 00:38:36,064 --> 00:38:39,335 and he said, "I think my sister's in this cult." 779 00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:42,463 {\an8}-Well, I just want to let everyone know how lucky 780 00:38:42,487 --> 00:38:44,798 {\an8}and happy I feel to be here 781 00:38:44,822 --> 00:38:48,469 {\an8}and let you know that what we're about to do, 782 00:38:48,493 --> 00:38:54,391 certainly nothing to think negatively about. 783 00:38:54,415 --> 00:38:56,936 We're all choosing of our own free will 784 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,605 go to the next level with Ti and Do. 785 00:38:59,629 --> 00:39:01,524 And they are certainly not what... 786 00:39:01,548 --> 00:39:06,153 -It was very strange watching my sister's goodbye video. 787 00:39:06,177 --> 00:39:09,823 Aside from the voice, I would never have guessed it was her. 788 00:39:09,847 --> 00:39:13,994 She looked that different with the short hair 789 00:39:14,018 --> 00:39:17,790 and just so pale and so gaunt 790 00:39:17,814 --> 00:39:20,251 that she... had it not been for the voice, 791 00:39:20,275 --> 00:39:23,045 I wouldn't have recognized her. 792 00:39:23,069 --> 00:39:26,924 -I guess that's really all I want to say. 793 00:39:26,948 --> 00:39:30,469 -It was hard and it's still hard, so... 794 00:39:30,493 --> 00:39:32,179 And I think it will remain hard 795 00:39:32,203 --> 00:39:36,475 until I see her again someday. 796 00:39:36,499 --> 00:39:40,437 -I understand the pain that her parents and loved ones 797 00:39:40,461 --> 00:39:45,276 are experiencing by that, but I did not feel sad 798 00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:49,822 when I found out that they left their vehicles behind 799 00:39:49,846 --> 00:39:53,325 because I didn't think they were dead. 800 00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:55,160 I thought their vehicles were dead, 801 00:39:55,184 --> 00:39:57,580 and it's not real to me. 802 00:39:57,604 --> 00:40:00,708 That we're not our vehicles. 803 00:40:00,732 --> 00:40:04,545 -Despite the tragic deaths of members of Heaven's Gate 804 00:40:04,569 --> 00:40:09,049 and the Waco Branch Davidians before them, 805 00:40:09,073 --> 00:40:13,012 by the decade's end, they become a punch line. 806 00:40:13,036 --> 00:40:14,263 - We made it! - Whoo! 807 00:40:14,287 --> 00:40:16,098 - We made it! - But what drove them 808 00:40:16,122 --> 00:40:18,058 to their fates will continue 809 00:40:18,082 --> 00:40:21,604 to haunt the nation right into the new millennium. 810 00:40:21,628 --> 00:40:25,190 -If we don't teach people to be better critical thinkers, 811 00:40:25,214 --> 00:40:28,217 these type of things are gonna occur over and over again. 812 00:40:33,097 --> 00:40:35,451 -And good evening from the crossroads of the world. 813 00:40:35,475 --> 00:40:37,369 People from all over the planet have come here 814 00:40:37,393 --> 00:40:40,831 to celebrate the arrival of the year 2000. 815 00:40:40,855 --> 00:40:44,627 -In the last days of the '90s, it's not just doomsday fanatics 816 00:40:44,651 --> 00:40:47,921 who are preparing for the end of the world. 817 00:40:47,945 --> 00:40:49,882 Even military experts are bracing 818 00:40:49,906 --> 00:40:54,887 for the millennium Y2K bug, a computer software problem 819 00:40:54,911 --> 00:40:59,558 that many fear will lead to global catastrophes. 820 00:40:59,582 --> 00:41:01,810 -Representatives from all federal agencies 821 00:41:01,834 --> 00:41:04,647 are standing by, such as Energy, Defense, 822 00:41:04,671 --> 00:41:06,148 and the State Department. 823 00:41:06,172 --> 00:41:08,817 -Then, when the clock strikes 12:00... 824 00:41:08,841 --> 00:41:11,552 -3, 2, 1! 825 00:41:13,846 --> 00:41:15,783 - nothing happens. 826 00:41:15,807 --> 00:41:20,329 [ Cheers and applause ] 827 00:41:20,353 --> 00:41:23,499 -Worldwide, according to US military spokesman, 828 00:41:23,523 --> 00:41:24,833 all is quiet. 829 00:41:24,857 --> 00:41:27,795 Can't do better than that. 830 00:41:27,819 --> 00:41:30,839 -But the arrival of the 21st century 831 00:41:30,863 --> 00:41:33,050 does little to ease the anxieties 832 00:41:33,074 --> 00:41:35,594 that got triggered back in the '90s. 833 00:41:35,618 --> 00:41:38,514 -For those of us living in 2020 today, 834 00:41:38,538 --> 00:41:40,933 the idea that we live at a turning point 835 00:41:40,957 --> 00:41:43,977 is no less powerful now than it was in the 1990s. 836 00:41:44,001 --> 00:41:45,562 We don't have the Y2K bug. 837 00:41:45,586 --> 00:41:47,314 We don't have the year 2000 to look forward to. 838 00:41:47,338 --> 00:41:51,610 Instead, we have everything from 9/11 going into the pandemic 839 00:41:51,634 --> 00:41:54,613 where we feel like the world is on fire. 840 00:41:54,637 --> 00:41:59,201 {\an8}-I think this planet has become a very, very hideous place. 841 00:41:59,225 --> 00:42:02,329 {\an8}They take control of you from cradle to the grave. 842 00:42:02,353 --> 00:42:05,165 -Both Heaven's Gate and the Branch Davidians believed 843 00:42:05,189 --> 00:42:07,835 that you couldn't trust the government 844 00:42:07,859 --> 00:42:09,545 and couldn't trust society, 845 00:42:09,569 --> 00:42:12,047 and that sort of conspiratorialism in the 1990s, 846 00:42:12,071 --> 00:42:13,966 we thought it was extreme. 847 00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:18,161 We thought it was violating social norms. 848 00:42:19,996 --> 00:42:23,142 -That was the beginning movement of the distrust 849 00:42:23,166 --> 00:42:25,894 for the government, and that same movement 850 00:42:25,918 --> 00:42:30,983 has become very, very dominant in the US. 851 00:42:31,007 --> 00:42:32,860 -By 2020, it was in the White House, 852 00:42:32,884 --> 00:42:34,445 and the idea... And in Congress... 853 00:42:34,469 --> 00:42:37,197 The idea that you could believe in conspiracies 854 00:42:37,221 --> 00:42:40,826 and that that there were deep state working against us. 855 00:42:40,850 --> 00:42:43,412 I mean, this is now part of our mainstream American culture. 856 00:42:43,436 --> 00:42:46,957 -[ Chanting indistinctly ] 857 00:42:46,981 --> 00:42:48,667 -We're taking back our country, 858 00:42:48,691 --> 00:42:50,335 and it's gonna be biblical. 859 00:42:50,359 --> 00:42:53,630 -The things that are happening in the world, 860 00:42:53,654 --> 00:42:56,717 there's so much manipulation and deceit going around. 861 00:42:56,741 --> 00:43:01,430 It's... It's come to a head like never before on this planet. 862 00:43:01,454 --> 00:43:06,977 {\an8}♪♪ 863 00:43:07,001 --> 00:43:10,397 -What's the difference between a cult and a religion? 864 00:43:10,421 --> 00:43:14,860 And I still don't have a real answer to this day. 865 00:43:14,884 --> 00:43:16,862 - [ Chuckles ] - Okay. 866 00:43:16,886 --> 00:43:19,573 -Everyone on this planet and in this society 867 00:43:19,597 --> 00:43:23,118 {\an8}longs for a better life or the idea of Heaven. 868 00:43:23,142 --> 00:43:24,995 {\an8}My God, we live in a Christian country 869 00:43:25,019 --> 00:43:28,957 {\an8}where the whole foundation is leaving to Heaven when you die. 870 00:43:28,981 --> 00:43:33,670 -All I can say is I'm hoping that she was happy 871 00:43:33,694 --> 00:43:35,881 in whatever she did. 872 00:43:35,905 --> 00:43:39,367 She was a pleasure to have for as long as I had her. 873 00:43:41,327 --> 00:43:45,307 {\an8}-I feel like I wish I would have overcome 874 00:43:45,331 --> 00:43:47,893 {\an8}what I could have overcome while I was with the group 875 00:43:47,917 --> 00:43:50,395 {\an8}in order to exit with them, yes. 876 00:43:50,419 --> 00:43:53,649 {\an8}That doesn't mean I don't love my vehicle's daughter. 877 00:43:53,673 --> 00:43:57,319 {\an8}And so I'm not, like, crying over spilled milk kind of thing. 878 00:43:57,343 --> 00:43:59,530 {\an8}That wasn't the way of the next level. 879 00:43:59,554 --> 00:44:01,573 {\an8}I don't... I don't feel guilty about it. 880 00:44:01,597 --> 00:44:05,810 {\an8}I-I enjoy being alive at this moment, yes.