1 00:00:08,342 --> 00:00:09,819 -The grunge revolution starts percolating in Seattle. 2 00:00:09,843 --> 00:00:14,282 -You could just feel days of rain in the music. 3 00:00:14,306 --> 00:00:17,660 -It was this whole lifestyle. Oh, they all wear plaid. 4 00:00:17,684 --> 00:00:20,079 -Sub Pop, a small local record label, 5 00:00:20,103 --> 00:00:22,332 launches this new sound. 6 00:00:22,356 --> 00:00:25,001 -Sub Pop's unbelievable influence... 7 00:00:25,025 --> 00:00:28,755 That was the beginning of the decade. 8 00:00:28,779 --> 00:00:30,340 - you, corporate America. 9 00:00:30,364 --> 00:00:32,300 We're going to take control of our own culture. 10 00:00:32,324 --> 00:00:33,968 -Legends are born. 11 00:00:33,992 --> 00:00:35,678 -Nirvana borrowed $600 12 00:00:35,702 --> 00:00:38,306 and we made the "Bleach" album. 13 00:00:38,330 --> 00:00:40,767 - But success... - Kurt was on fire. 14 00:00:40,791 --> 00:00:43,895 Audience going crazy. - Comes with a price. 15 00:00:43,919 --> 00:00:46,147 -It's better to burn out than to fade away. 16 00:00:46,171 --> 00:00:47,941 -Times had changed. 17 00:00:47,965 --> 00:00:50,777 -They felt things should be going in another direction. 18 00:00:50,801 --> 00:00:53,696 -This isn't really in any of the history books. 19 00:00:53,720 --> 00:01:01,720 {\an8}♪♪ 20 00:01:02,062 --> 00:01:03,248 [ Dial-up modems screeching ] 21 00:01:03,272 --> 00:01:11,272 {\an8}♪♪ 22 00:01:15,492 --> 00:01:17,387 {\an8}-It's the dawn of the '90s 23 00:01:17,411 --> 00:01:21,099 {\an8}and a rumbling is heard from the Pacific Northwest. 24 00:01:21,123 --> 00:01:25,186 -♪ Whoa ♪ 25 00:01:25,210 --> 00:01:29,649 -The distortion of heavy metal fused with the chaos of punk. 26 00:01:29,673 --> 00:01:32,777 -It was the right music at the right time. 27 00:01:32,801 --> 00:01:35,571 -♪ Come on ♪ 28 00:01:35,595 --> 00:01:37,782 ♪ Talk to me, I'm sick ♪ 29 00:01:37,806 --> 00:01:42,912 {\an8}-This angsty new Seattle sound is called grunge, 30 00:01:42,936 --> 00:01:45,665 and it'll come to dominate the decade's billboard 31 00:01:45,689 --> 00:01:47,500 charts around the globe. 32 00:01:47,524 --> 00:01:51,087 -It's not even so much as sound as it really is an attitude. 33 00:01:51,111 --> 00:01:53,715 -♪ Come on, baby, now come with me ♪ 34 00:01:53,739 --> 00:01:55,466 ♪ You don't come... ♪ 35 00:01:55,490 --> 00:02:00,078 {\an1}-It really did express this kind of inner torment and it was fun. 36 00:02:01,496 --> 00:02:06,019 [ Thunder crashing ] 37 00:02:06,043 --> 00:02:08,980 -The often gloomy, rain-soaked city of Seattle 38 00:02:09,004 --> 00:02:10,815 {\an8}might seem like an unlikely spot 39 00:02:10,839 --> 00:02:15,194 {\an8}to birth a new form of rock and roll described as fun. 40 00:02:15,218 --> 00:02:17,280 -With all this rainfall, you can see the evidence 41 00:02:17,304 --> 00:02:19,449 of what appears to be a fresh slide there. 42 00:02:19,473 --> 00:02:20,950 -I remember one time in the '90s, 43 00:02:20,974 --> 00:02:23,619 it rained every day for three months. 44 00:02:23,643 --> 00:02:25,663 Actually, I think it was a bit over three months 45 00:02:25,687 --> 00:02:27,415 because it made the news. 46 00:02:27,439 --> 00:02:31,169 You can hear jokes in movies and plays mentioning Seattle 47 00:02:31,193 --> 00:02:33,796 and how it's just this kind of podunk town. 48 00:02:33,820 --> 00:02:36,507 People didn't even know where Seattle was. 49 00:02:36,531 --> 00:02:39,093 {\an8}-I'm Gillian Gaar, and I'm the author of 50 00:02:39,117 --> 00:02:43,097 "World Domination: The Sub Pop Records Story". 51 00:02:43,121 --> 00:02:45,183 -Because it's a port city, 52 00:02:45,207 --> 00:02:49,020 it was a little darker place than maybe somewhere else. 53 00:02:49,044 --> 00:02:52,815 And it was really depressed in the '80s and '90s. 54 00:02:52,839 --> 00:02:54,817 Part of the problem was just being isolated 55 00:02:54,841 --> 00:02:56,319 in the Pacific Northwest. 56 00:02:56,343 --> 00:03:00,531 {\an8}So a lot of bands didn't make it up this far. 57 00:03:00,555 --> 00:03:02,200 {\an8}I'm Charles Peterson 58 00:03:02,224 --> 00:03:05,310 {\an8}and I photographed the grunge scene back in the '90s. 59 00:03:08,438 --> 00:03:12,168 -But it's exactly this sense of isolation and despair 60 00:03:12,192 --> 00:03:15,421 that inspires a new sound emerging from bands playing 61 00:03:15,445 --> 00:03:18,883 Seattle's dive bars and small music venues. 62 00:03:18,907 --> 00:03:22,762 -♪ The place becoming dark, all things seem dim ♪ 63 00:03:22,786 --> 00:03:26,349 ♪ Something crawls out and crawls in my head ♪ 64 00:03:26,373 --> 00:03:31,229 -You could just feel the days of rain in the music. 65 00:03:31,253 --> 00:03:34,190 I love the drenching guitar sound, 66 00:03:34,214 --> 00:03:37,652 the down tuning, you know, the sludgy-ness of it, 67 00:03:37,676 --> 00:03:40,655 the distortion. It had so much grit in it. 68 00:03:40,679 --> 00:03:43,658 -♪ Oh ♪ 69 00:03:43,682 --> 00:03:47,703 {\an8}-I'm Matt Pinfield, radio and TV host for almost four decades. 70 00:03:47,727 --> 00:03:50,289 I went on to become a vice president of Columbia Records 71 00:03:50,313 --> 00:03:54,836 for seven years, and I'm still going. 72 00:03:54,860 --> 00:03:57,046 -Some Seattle bands first experimenting 73 00:03:57,070 --> 00:03:59,966 with that gritty sound are Soundgarden, 74 00:03:59,990 --> 00:04:04,137 Green River, and Tad, but major labels from L.A. 75 00:04:04,161 --> 00:04:08,224 and New York never signed bands from this forgotten city. 76 00:04:08,248 --> 00:04:10,351 -The music scene in Seattle was very small. 77 00:04:10,375 --> 00:04:14,689 There were a handful of bands playing original music 78 00:04:14,713 --> 00:04:18,067 that was not cover tunes. 79 00:04:18,091 --> 00:04:20,403 {\an8}I'm Jack Endino. I'm a record producer, 80 00:04:20,427 --> 00:04:23,114 {\an8}engineer, and musician. 81 00:04:23,138 --> 00:04:24,824 There's a whole history of Seattle bands 82 00:04:24,848 --> 00:04:26,451 that you don't hear about now. 83 00:04:26,475 --> 00:04:28,202 I know because I have some of their tapes 84 00:04:28,226 --> 00:04:30,246 sitting on my living room floor right now. 85 00:04:30,270 --> 00:04:32,415 The bands came and went at a time 86 00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:34,375 when there was nobody to put out a record. 87 00:04:34,399 --> 00:04:36,127 Maybe they managed to come up with the money 88 00:04:36,151 --> 00:04:38,754 to put out a seven-inch and that was it. 89 00:04:38,778 --> 00:04:40,173 -You know, we were in our early 20s 90 00:04:40,197 --> 00:04:43,092 and we had our little day jobs and rent 91 00:04:43,116 --> 00:04:46,095 was maybe $300 a month, 92 00:04:46,119 --> 00:04:48,264 but somebody wanted to hear our music. 93 00:04:48,288 --> 00:04:51,225 Well, the only way to do that was to scrape 94 00:04:51,249 --> 00:04:53,644 together enough money and pull up your sleeves 95 00:04:53,668 --> 00:04:57,482 and put this thing out, and that's the spirit of DIY. 96 00:04:57,506 --> 00:05:00,443 -Nobody was doing it for the money, at least initially. 97 00:05:00,467 --> 00:05:03,446 They were doing it for the love of the music itself 98 00:05:03,470 --> 00:05:05,156 because there was no money. 99 00:05:05,180 --> 00:05:07,241 You know? There just wasn't. 100 00:05:07,265 --> 00:05:09,035 -This do-it-yourself ethos 101 00:05:09,059 --> 00:05:12,622 is fundamental to the birth of the Seattle sound 102 00:05:12,646 --> 00:05:16,000 and leads to the creation of Sub Pop Records. 103 00:05:16,024 --> 00:05:19,045 -Sub Pop's unbelievable influence... 104 00:05:19,069 --> 00:05:23,257 That was the beginning of the decade. 105 00:05:23,281 --> 00:05:25,009 -I was fortunate enough 106 00:05:25,033 --> 00:05:28,554 to kind of come of age during the punk rock New Wave era 107 00:05:28,578 --> 00:05:30,264 of the late '70s. 108 00:05:30,288 --> 00:05:35,061 I was discovering indie singles by Devo from Akron, 109 00:05:35,085 --> 00:05:38,356 {\an8}or the B-52s from Athens. 110 00:05:38,380 --> 00:05:42,318 {\an8}I am Bruce Pavitt, and along with Jonathan Poneman, 111 00:05:42,342 --> 00:05:44,946 I'm the founder of Sub Pop Records. 112 00:05:44,970 --> 00:05:47,448 As a young person, 18, 19, 113 00:05:47,472 --> 00:05:52,161 I realized that you didn't have to live in New York or L.A. 114 00:05:52,185 --> 00:05:53,538 to put out your own music. 115 00:05:53,562 --> 00:05:55,915 The more I started thinking about 116 00:05:55,939 --> 00:05:57,875 the importance of DIY culture, 117 00:05:57,899 --> 00:05:59,961 the more passionate I got about it. 118 00:05:59,985 --> 00:06:03,005 The idea of saying, "...you, corporate America, 119 00:06:03,029 --> 00:06:05,633 we're going to take control of our own culture." 120 00:06:05,657 --> 00:06:07,969 So that was deeply inspiring. 121 00:06:07,993 --> 00:06:10,179 -The name "Sub Pop" comes from Pavitt's time 122 00:06:10,203 --> 00:06:13,724 working as a DJ down in Olympia, Washington, 123 00:06:13,748 --> 00:06:17,728 at his college radio station KOAS. 124 00:06:17,752 --> 00:06:20,356 -I had a radio show called "Subterranean Pop". 125 00:06:20,380 --> 00:06:23,734 I turned that into a fanzine called "Subterranean Pop", 126 00:06:23,758 --> 00:06:25,987 which was abbreviated to "Sub/Pop". 127 00:06:26,011 --> 00:06:27,947 And then I moved up to Seattle 128 00:06:27,971 --> 00:06:31,075 to try and find some work. 129 00:06:31,099 --> 00:06:33,578 -In Seattle, Pavitt finds a day job 130 00:06:33,602 --> 00:06:35,997 duplicating tapes at Muzak, 131 00:06:36,021 --> 00:06:38,666 the famous elevator music company. 132 00:06:38,690 --> 00:06:40,209 And in his spare time, 133 00:06:40,233 --> 00:06:43,796 he releases his first vinyl compilation. 134 00:06:43,820 --> 00:06:46,048 I released "Sub Pop 100". 135 00:06:46,072 --> 00:06:48,050 {\an8}It was bands from around the country... 136 00:06:48,074 --> 00:06:49,552 {\an8}Sonic Youth from New York, 137 00:06:49,576 --> 00:06:51,345 {\an8}The U-Men from Seattle. 138 00:06:51,369 --> 00:06:52,972 {\an8}It sold about 5,000 copies, 139 00:06:52,996 --> 00:06:55,725 {\an8}which at the time was like having a gold record 140 00:06:55,749 --> 00:06:57,643 {\an8}in the indie punk world. 141 00:06:57,667 --> 00:06:59,353 {\an8}I was living in an apartment. 142 00:06:59,377 --> 00:07:02,023 {\an8}College radio stations could call my answering machine 143 00:07:02,047 --> 00:07:03,941 {\an8}and I'd ship out records. 144 00:07:03,965 --> 00:07:06,193 After I had released "Sub Pop 100", 145 00:07:06,217 --> 00:07:11,741 I decided to focus on Seattle. 146 00:07:11,765 --> 00:07:14,368 The live music scene was going off. 147 00:07:14,392 --> 00:07:18,039 Every musician would check out all the other local bands, 148 00:07:18,063 --> 00:07:20,583 so it was a very vibrant, creative community. 149 00:07:20,607 --> 00:07:23,085 The vibe was really people blowing off steam, 150 00:07:23,109 --> 00:07:25,087 jumping off PA speakers 151 00:07:25,111 --> 00:07:29,759 because they were really drunk, mostly on beer, 152 00:07:29,783 --> 00:07:33,054 but also, notoriously, heroin. 153 00:07:33,078 --> 00:07:35,473 A lot of the bands were listening to punk 154 00:07:35,497 --> 00:07:38,643 and art punk bands like Sonic Youth, for example. 155 00:07:38,667 --> 00:07:40,311 But what distinguishes us 156 00:07:40,335 --> 00:07:44,940 is we also listened to Black Sabbath and Aerosmith. 157 00:07:44,964 --> 00:07:49,153 It was a sound that was coming together. 158 00:07:49,177 --> 00:07:50,988 -Pavitt's next move is setting his sights 159 00:07:51,012 --> 00:07:55,451 on the most enigmatic indie band on the scene, Green River. 160 00:07:55,475 --> 00:07:58,496 -Green River's a live show was amazing. 161 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,247 -Fronted by Mark Arm, 162 00:08:00,271 --> 00:08:03,626 Green River also includes Jeff Ament and guitar player 163 00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:06,128 Stone Gossard, who'll later become 164 00:08:06,152 --> 00:08:08,297 founding members of Pearl Jam, 165 00:08:08,321 --> 00:08:13,010 a band that will go on to sell over 30 million records. 166 00:08:13,034 --> 00:08:15,346 As Pavitt begins negotiating with Green River 167 00:08:15,370 --> 00:08:17,431 to produce their first album, 168 00:08:17,455 --> 00:08:21,811 he meets the man who will become his future business partner. 169 00:08:21,835 --> 00:08:26,357 -I joined forces with a local promoter and radio DJ, 170 00:08:26,381 --> 00:08:27,983 Jonathan Poneman. 171 00:08:28,007 --> 00:08:31,320 -John Poneman was a promoter. He put on shows 172 00:08:31,344 --> 00:08:33,155 There'd be a building that was, 173 00:08:33,179 --> 00:08:34,949 you know, condemned or something like that 174 00:08:34,973 --> 00:08:36,784 and have shows there for a little bit. 175 00:08:36,808 --> 00:08:39,995 {\an8}-You know, I'm a failed pop musician myself. 176 00:08:40,019 --> 00:08:43,165 {\an8}So, you know, I kind of decided, "Well, 177 00:08:43,189 --> 00:08:45,418 I'm going to play in crummy band after crummy band. 178 00:08:45,442 --> 00:08:47,753 I may as well rep some of these bands 179 00:08:47,777 --> 00:08:50,005 who might have a chance of doing something." 180 00:08:50,029 --> 00:08:51,882 -Although I'd seen John around 181 00:08:51,906 --> 00:08:54,051 and had a lot of respect for him, 182 00:08:54,075 --> 00:08:56,512 it was Kim Thayll from Soundgarden 183 00:08:56,536 --> 00:08:58,973 that kind of brought us together. 184 00:08:58,997 --> 00:09:00,725 Kim said, "Hey, John is interested 185 00:09:00,749 --> 00:09:04,603 in putting out our first record. You've already got a label. 186 00:09:04,627 --> 00:09:06,981 Why don't you guys just join forces?" 187 00:09:07,005 --> 00:09:10,401 And at the time, I had not a lot of cash. 188 00:09:10,425 --> 00:09:12,027 John had a little bit of cash, 189 00:09:12,051 --> 00:09:14,488 so that kind of made the difference. 190 00:09:14,512 --> 00:09:18,993 {\an8}-Together, Pavitt and Poneman share a singular vision... 191 00:09:19,017 --> 00:09:23,205 {\an8}to put Seattle's music on vinyl and on the map. 192 00:09:23,229 --> 00:09:25,750 To do that, they need help. 193 00:09:25,774 --> 00:09:29,211 -Jack Endino did miracles with a very low budget. 194 00:09:29,235 --> 00:09:31,380 He recorded the bands live in his studio. 195 00:09:31,404 --> 00:09:33,799 They sounded totally raw. They sounded great. 196 00:09:33,823 --> 00:09:37,219 -Almost the very first clients that I brought into the studio 197 00:09:37,243 --> 00:09:40,055 were Green River and Soundgarden. 198 00:09:40,079 --> 00:09:43,184 I was doing the damnedest I could with very little gear 199 00:09:43,208 --> 00:09:44,643 and very little time and money 200 00:09:44,667 --> 00:09:47,438 to make some reasonably decent recordings. 201 00:09:47,462 --> 00:09:49,648 But they pretty much let me do my thing. 202 00:09:49,672 --> 00:09:51,776 The most I would ever hear from them was, 203 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,487 "Jack, just make it rock." 204 00:09:54,511 --> 00:09:57,156 -Along with Jack Endino, Pavitt and Poneman 205 00:09:57,180 --> 00:09:59,575 enlist the help of Charles Peterson, 206 00:09:59,599 --> 00:10:03,078 whose photographs become the band's album art. 207 00:10:03,102 --> 00:10:04,872 -I think there are parallels between 208 00:10:04,896 --> 00:10:08,375 the look of my photography and Jack Endino's production. 209 00:10:08,399 --> 00:10:11,086 It's raw, but refined at the same time. 210 00:10:11,110 --> 00:10:14,131 -You had an excellent producer, an excellent photographer. 211 00:10:14,155 --> 00:10:18,284 So eventually, the buzz and the hype would build. 212 00:10:20,245 --> 00:10:24,225 -Sub Pop releases Soundgarden's first single "Hunted Down", 213 00:10:24,249 --> 00:10:26,018 which they include for free 214 00:10:26,042 --> 00:10:30,314 when they send out copies of Green River's "Dry as a Bone". 215 00:10:30,338 --> 00:10:33,943 {\an8}-We had two great sounding bands in one package. 216 00:10:33,967 --> 00:10:38,364 {\an7}It was really an announcement to the world that a scene was here. 217 00:10:38,388 --> 00:10:42,117 -The first thing that I heard coming out of Seattle 218 00:10:42,141 --> 00:10:43,577 was about Soundgarden. 219 00:10:43,601 --> 00:10:46,080 A friend of mine from New York City, 220 00:10:46,104 --> 00:10:49,041 he turned me on to the "Hunted Down" single, 221 00:10:49,065 --> 00:10:50,417 and I thought it was great. 222 00:10:50,441 --> 00:10:53,629 I would play it on my college radio show. 223 00:10:53,653 --> 00:10:56,090 -John and I really felt that if we could stay focused on 224 00:10:56,114 --> 00:10:59,343 Seattle, it's kind of like a Motown approach, right, 225 00:10:59,367 --> 00:11:01,303 where you've got an established vibe 226 00:11:01,327 --> 00:11:05,391 and just keep pumping out the underground hits. 227 00:11:05,415 --> 00:11:09,812 {\an1}-They acted like their acts and their labels were already stars. 228 00:11:09,836 --> 00:11:11,981 Not "This is the next big thing", 229 00:11:12,005 --> 00:11:14,608 but "This is the big thing." [ Chuckles ] 230 00:11:14,632 --> 00:11:17,361 "And why haven't you caught up?" They just put out this idea. 231 00:11:17,385 --> 00:11:20,155 "We have the most amazing rock scene in the world." 232 00:11:20,179 --> 00:11:22,908 -Soundgarden brings the label attention, 233 00:11:22,932 --> 00:11:25,870 and when a cheap lease comes up for an office, 234 00:11:25,894 --> 00:11:30,291 Sub Pop acquires its first bricks and mortar home. 235 00:11:30,315 --> 00:11:31,959 -I remember I had Bruce coming to me. He's like, 236 00:11:31,983 --> 00:11:34,378 "Dude, we just signed the lease." And I'm like, 237 00:11:34,402 --> 00:11:36,672 "Wow, guys, that's a big step here." 238 00:11:36,696 --> 00:11:39,466 Take me up the elevator. We get off, and I'm like, 239 00:11:39,490 --> 00:11:40,759 "Where's the office?" And they're like, 240 00:11:40,783 --> 00:11:42,303 "Oh, wait a minute." We go around. 241 00:11:42,327 --> 00:11:44,513 We go up these little set of steps. 242 00:11:44,537 --> 00:11:48,225 I'm like, "Okay?" And it's just sort of one room, 243 00:11:48,249 --> 00:11:52,229 like the janitor's room or something at some point. 244 00:11:52,253 --> 00:11:55,232 They were storing records in the bathroom. 245 00:11:55,256 --> 00:11:57,318 So when you went in to use the bathroom, 246 00:11:57,342 --> 00:12:00,529 you were flanked by cardboard boxes 247 00:12:00,553 --> 00:12:03,073 of Green River or whatever. 248 00:12:03,097 --> 00:12:04,783 -Now armed with a name, 249 00:12:04,807 --> 00:12:07,661 a office, and some talented friends, 250 00:12:07,685 --> 00:12:09,538 Bruce and John discover they're missing 251 00:12:09,562 --> 00:12:12,958 a pretty key component of any record label. 252 00:12:12,982 --> 00:12:16,527 -We realized all of a sudden, we didn't have any bands. 253 00:12:20,573 --> 00:12:22,176 -At the start of the '90s, 254 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,429 while most of America is riding an economic boom, 255 00:12:25,453 --> 00:12:30,392 Seattle is stuck in the '80s' economic malaise. 256 00:12:30,416 --> 00:12:31,852 To the rest of the country, 257 00:12:31,876 --> 00:12:35,105 the city is just another blue collar backwater 258 00:12:35,129 --> 00:12:37,733 with few opportunities. 259 00:12:37,757 --> 00:12:40,569 Even its indie coffee chain, Starbucks, 260 00:12:40,593 --> 00:12:42,780 is still trapped in the gloom. 261 00:12:42,804 --> 00:12:45,240 -Tall, nonfat, foam latte. 262 00:12:45,264 --> 00:12:47,117 -But just like Starbucks, 263 00:12:47,141 --> 00:12:51,038 Sub Pop is on the verge of breaking out. 264 00:12:51,062 --> 00:12:53,958 {\an8}By including a free Soundgarden single with every sale 265 00:12:53,982 --> 00:12:57,628 {\an8}of their first LP, Green River's "Dry as a Bone", 266 00:12:57,652 --> 00:13:00,506 Sub Pop get attention for both bands from radio 267 00:13:00,530 --> 00:13:02,824 DJs across the country. 268 00:13:05,034 --> 00:13:09,723 But soon after, there's a crisis at the young company. 269 00:13:09,747 --> 00:13:12,935 {\an8}-When John and I opened our office doors, 270 00:13:12,959 --> 00:13:18,899 Green River basically handed us the tape for their next record 271 00:13:18,923 --> 00:13:21,735 and announced that they were breaking up. 272 00:13:21,759 --> 00:13:25,656 -It's a big setback to Sub Pop's immediate plans, 273 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:27,282 but at least they have Soundgarden 274 00:13:27,306 --> 00:13:29,702 to fall back on. 275 00:13:29,726 --> 00:13:33,080 That is until Soundgarden signed with SST, 276 00:13:33,104 --> 00:13:37,793 a more established indie label from Long Beach, California. 277 00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:39,586 -That was challenging. 278 00:13:39,610 --> 00:13:45,551 However, Mudhoney was a new band 279 00:13:45,575 --> 00:13:49,513 that was formed by the singer of Green River, Mark Arm, 280 00:13:49,537 --> 00:13:51,974 and Mudhoney wound up having their first show, 281 00:13:51,998 --> 00:13:55,894 I believe it was 10 days after we opened our office doors, 282 00:13:55,918 --> 00:13:57,438 and they were incredible. 283 00:13:57,462 --> 00:13:59,440 We had this mind blowing new band 284 00:13:59,464 --> 00:14:03,152 that we just fortunately stumbled into. 285 00:14:03,176 --> 00:14:05,946 -After signing Mudhoney, they had the grunge bands 286 00:14:05,970 --> 00:14:10,826 Tad, L7, and Dinosaur Jr. to their roster. 287 00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:13,370 -The early days of Sub Pop were very stressful, 288 00:14:13,394 --> 00:14:15,372 but also, they were very creative 289 00:14:15,396 --> 00:14:17,249 and they were less regimented. 290 00:14:17,273 --> 00:14:21,170 Anybody who had a good idea, you would just act on it. 291 00:14:21,194 --> 00:14:22,713 A lot of the joy 292 00:14:22,737 --> 00:14:24,757 that I experienced in the early days of Sub Pop 293 00:14:24,781 --> 00:14:26,759 was just spending time with John. 294 00:14:26,783 --> 00:14:29,470 He's just one of the most interesting people I've met. 295 00:14:29,494 --> 00:14:31,305 We think very differently. 296 00:14:31,329 --> 00:14:33,974 But there's a good chemistry there. 297 00:14:33,998 --> 00:14:36,894 -With money tight, Bruce and John turn to their friends 298 00:14:36,918 --> 00:14:38,854 to help out. 299 00:14:38,878 --> 00:14:41,023 -John and Bruce... They really needed somebody. 300 00:14:41,047 --> 00:14:43,525 So they were like, "Come in and be our receptionist 301 00:14:43,549 --> 00:14:45,319 and take photos at night." 302 00:14:45,343 --> 00:14:49,073 {\an8}And they had what was called the singles club at the time, 303 00:14:49,097 --> 00:14:52,868 {\an8}where you paid for a year's worth of seven inch singles. 304 00:14:52,892 --> 00:14:56,205 And I would come in, open all the letters, 305 00:14:56,229 --> 00:14:59,249 find out where the checks for the singles clubs were, 306 00:14:59,273 --> 00:15:00,876 run them down to the bank. 307 00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:03,128 That was the first thing. Always, like, get the money 308 00:15:03,152 --> 00:15:05,714 and go to the bank. Get the money, go to the bank. 309 00:15:05,738 --> 00:15:07,549 -Those members of that singles club, you know, 310 00:15:07,573 --> 00:15:09,927 {\an8}help float the label for a while. 311 00:15:09,951 --> 00:15:11,428 {\an8}-Their phone was going to get cut off 312 00:15:11,452 --> 00:15:12,888 {\an8}their first month in business. 313 00:15:12,912 --> 00:15:14,890 {\an8}So, they themselves would not claim 314 00:15:14,914 --> 00:15:16,725 {\an8}any great strengths as businessmen. 315 00:15:16,749 --> 00:15:19,812 {\an8}But they did have a goal. 316 00:15:19,836 --> 00:15:21,688 {\an8}-To get the world hooked on grunge, 317 00:15:21,712 --> 00:15:24,900 {\an8}Pavitt and Poneman launched the Sub Pop version 318 00:15:24,924 --> 00:15:26,110 {\an8}of the British Invasion. 319 00:15:26,134 --> 00:15:27,653 {\an8}-You're in Seattle. 320 00:15:27,677 --> 00:15:29,321 {\an8}You're trying to get attention for your label. 321 00:15:29,345 --> 00:15:31,406 {\an8}You're trying to get attention for your music scene. 322 00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:35,702 {\an1}You can't get any traction with the media from L.A. or New York. 323 00:15:35,726 --> 00:15:38,580 So Bruce and John came up with the clever idea 324 00:15:38,604 --> 00:15:42,751 to get the UK press to talk about Seattle. 325 00:15:42,775 --> 00:15:44,336 -They thought, "Well, let's bring over 326 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,380 a British rock journalist to write about it." 327 00:15:46,404 --> 00:15:49,883 Everett True from "Melody Maker". 328 00:15:49,907 --> 00:15:52,511 So they bring him over and they set up all these shows 329 00:15:52,535 --> 00:15:54,096 so he could see the bands. 330 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,848 -Bought him drinks, wined and dined him, 331 00:15:55,872 --> 00:15:58,475 and just, you know, had his face get ripped off 332 00:15:58,499 --> 00:16:00,769 at some of these grunge shows at the time. 333 00:16:00,793 --> 00:16:02,437 He was impressed and he thought, 334 00:16:02,461 --> 00:16:04,690 "Well, dang, there's something going on here, you know?" 335 00:16:04,714 --> 00:16:08,068 -Mudhoney was about to go over on their first UK tour. 336 00:16:08,092 --> 00:16:11,572 They got two front page stories in "Melody Maker". 337 00:16:11,596 --> 00:16:13,532 -Then the US media was like, "Wait a minute. 338 00:16:13,556 --> 00:16:15,576 What is the UK talking about here?" 339 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,286 {\an8}[ Chainsaw running ] 340 00:16:17,310 --> 00:16:19,454 {\an8}-Sub Pop's publicity plan includes 341 00:16:19,478 --> 00:16:22,457 using an age old advertising strategy... 342 00:16:22,481 --> 00:16:25,043 To give their bands an origin story, 343 00:16:25,067 --> 00:16:28,922 one distinctly rooted in the American Northwest. 344 00:16:28,946 --> 00:16:31,133 -Bruce and John liked to sell the idea of their acts 345 00:16:31,157 --> 00:16:34,803 being these rough and tumble loggers, lumberjack types, 346 00:16:34,827 --> 00:16:37,723 which, apparently, some of these folks did believe. 347 00:16:37,747 --> 00:16:39,975 I remember reading they were disappointed to find out 348 00:16:39,999 --> 00:16:43,061 that members of Mudhoney had actually gone to college. 349 00:16:43,085 --> 00:16:45,272 That just sort of... "Oh, oh, what do you mean?" 350 00:16:45,296 --> 00:16:48,901 I talked to Kurt Danielson of Tad about that once. 351 00:16:48,925 --> 00:16:51,945 Kurt said, you know, "We knew they were selling 352 00:16:51,969 --> 00:16:53,906 this notion of us as being like this. 353 00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:55,657 And on the one hand, we resented it. 354 00:16:55,681 --> 00:16:57,659 But on the other hand, we got coverage. 355 00:16:57,683 --> 00:16:59,703 It's image and image is a part of rock and roll. 356 00:16:59,727 --> 00:17:01,812 So we'll just go along with it." 357 00:17:04,190 --> 00:17:07,044 -The marketing of musicians as blue collar workers 358 00:17:07,068 --> 00:17:10,964 helps sell records and gives hopes to other bands 359 00:17:10,988 --> 00:17:14,551 living in the remote communities surrounding Seattle. 360 00:17:14,575 --> 00:17:19,139 -If you think Seattle was sort of dark and depressed and '90's, 361 00:17:19,163 --> 00:17:24,186 I mean, Aberdeen... if any place in the Pacific Northwest 362 00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:28,190 there's excess rain, it's there. 363 00:17:28,214 --> 00:17:31,777 -Aberdeen is just one of many small logging towns 364 00:17:31,801 --> 00:17:34,696 still hurting from the '80s recession. 365 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,367 High unemployment leads to high levels of alcoholism. 366 00:17:38,391 --> 00:17:41,995 It's here that a local band named Nirvana first hears 367 00:17:42,019 --> 00:17:45,415 about Sub Pop's talented producer, Jack Endino. 368 00:17:45,439 --> 00:17:48,210 -Kurt just called up and said, "Yeah, I've got this band. 369 00:17:48,234 --> 00:17:51,755 We're coming from Aberdeen. We want to record a few songs. 370 00:17:51,779 --> 00:17:54,007 We just need an afternoon." and I said, "Okay." 371 00:17:54,031 --> 00:17:57,970 In one five-hour session, they recorded 10 songs. 372 00:17:57,994 --> 00:18:01,098 You know, I basically mixed it right then and there. 373 00:18:01,122 --> 00:18:03,517 I thought, "This band is kind of cool. 374 00:18:03,541 --> 00:18:05,936 You know, who are these guys? I kind of like this." 375 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,062 I said, "Hey, you know, do you mind 376 00:18:07,086 --> 00:18:08,647 if I roll the tape again 377 00:18:08,671 --> 00:18:11,066 to make myself a copy of these mixes?" 378 00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:13,694 And they said, "Yeah, go ahead and make a copy for yourself." 379 00:18:13,718 --> 00:18:16,071 And I gave a copy of it to Bruce and John. 380 00:18:16,095 --> 00:18:19,574 Jonathan liked it. Bruce wasn't sure. 381 00:18:19,598 --> 00:18:22,411 -So Cobain convinces Bruce and John 382 00:18:22,435 --> 00:18:23,954 to see his band play live. 383 00:18:23,978 --> 00:18:26,081 -This isn't really in any of the history books, 384 00:18:26,105 --> 00:18:30,335 but they drove up to Seattle and did a little show. 385 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:35,257 It was at the Central Tavern at 8:00 on a Sunday, 386 00:18:35,281 --> 00:18:41,722 and there was nobody in the tavern except John, myself, 387 00:18:41,746 --> 00:18:45,267 a couple of girlfriends, a roadie. That was about it. 388 00:18:45,291 --> 00:18:48,645 And after that show, which was not too impressive, 389 00:18:48,669 --> 00:18:51,648 I have to say, we decided we'd do a single 390 00:18:51,672 --> 00:18:53,567 and see how it went. 391 00:18:53,591 --> 00:18:57,904 -Sub Pop adds Nirvana's "Love Buzz" to the singles club. 392 00:18:57,928 --> 00:19:00,615 It does okay, but Pavitt's not convinced 393 00:19:00,639 --> 00:19:02,826 they're ready for a full album. 394 00:19:02,850 --> 00:19:05,078 -And so they said, "If we pay for it ourselves, 395 00:19:05,102 --> 00:19:07,831 can we make a full album if we pay for the session?" 396 00:19:07,855 --> 00:19:11,418 So Nirvana borrowed $600 from a friend of theirs 397 00:19:11,442 --> 00:19:15,464 and we made the "Bleach" album. 398 00:19:15,488 --> 00:19:19,843 -The "Bleach" album boosts both Kurt's and Nirvana's confidence 399 00:19:19,867 --> 00:19:22,471 and they start killing it at local shows. 400 00:19:22,495 --> 00:19:26,350 -Kurt was like on fire, like, the audience going crazy. 401 00:19:26,374 --> 00:19:29,644 {\an8}It was incredible and I couldn't take enough pictures. 402 00:19:29,668 --> 00:19:33,315 {\an8}-Nirvana's first album doesn't break any sales records, 403 00:19:33,339 --> 00:19:36,318 but Sub Pop now sees the band's potential 404 00:19:36,342 --> 00:19:40,822 and takes them on a European tour with Tad and Mudhoney. 405 00:19:40,846 --> 00:19:44,326 But being on tour almost proves too much for the band 406 00:19:44,350 --> 00:19:47,579 from Aberdeen's frontman. 407 00:19:47,603 --> 00:19:50,582 -John and I decided to put together 408 00:19:50,606 --> 00:19:53,168 a showcase in London. 409 00:19:53,192 --> 00:19:55,879 Now, a week prior to the showcase, 410 00:19:55,903 --> 00:20:01,343 Kurt literally had what I would call a breakdown on stage. 411 00:20:01,367 --> 00:20:03,595 They didn't finish the show. 412 00:20:03,619 --> 00:20:05,055 He told the rest of the band 413 00:20:05,079 --> 00:20:06,807 that he could not do this anymore 414 00:20:06,831 --> 00:20:08,642 and that the band was breaking up. 415 00:20:08,666 --> 00:20:12,687 John took Kurt around the block, just trying to chill him out 416 00:20:12,711 --> 00:20:16,066 and give him some perspective and give him some support. 417 00:20:16,090 --> 00:20:19,361 Kurt said, "You know, when I look out into the audience, 418 00:20:19,385 --> 00:20:21,113 what I see... I see all the kids 419 00:20:21,137 --> 00:20:25,033 who wanted to beat me up in high school." 420 00:20:25,057 --> 00:20:30,038 We pulled Kurt aside and spent the day with him in Rome 421 00:20:30,062 --> 00:20:31,790 and we did some sightseeing, 422 00:20:31,814 --> 00:20:34,209 For him to just experience 423 00:20:34,233 --> 00:20:36,086 one of the world's greatest cities, 424 00:20:36,110 --> 00:20:37,879 chill out, and have some good food. 425 00:20:37,903 --> 00:20:40,549 I think he was able to regain his spirit. 426 00:20:40,573 --> 00:20:44,678 So when the band finally played London at the Astoria 427 00:20:44,702 --> 00:20:47,681 to a sold out crowd of 2,000 people, 428 00:20:47,705 --> 00:20:49,558 they blew some minds. 429 00:20:49,582 --> 00:20:53,895 -Nirvana, along with Tad and Mudhoney, rock the UK. 430 00:20:53,919 --> 00:20:57,357 Europe gets a taste of grunge and they eat it up. 431 00:20:57,381 --> 00:20:58,984 But soon, it looks like the tour 432 00:20:59,008 --> 00:21:02,946 is not the only thing Kurt is anxious to wrap up. 433 00:21:02,970 --> 00:21:07,641 -By the summer of '91, the rumors were starting to fly. 434 00:21:12,188 --> 00:21:13,832 {\an8}-With the release of "Bleach" 435 00:21:13,856 --> 00:21:15,667 {\an8}and the buzz growing around Nirvana's European tour, 436 00:21:15,691 --> 00:21:17,419 {\an8}the once-unknown band now 437 00:21:17,443 --> 00:21:20,255 {\an8}has interest from major record labels. 438 00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:23,842 And there are rumors that Nirvana is thinking 439 00:21:23,866 --> 00:21:26,011 about making a change. 440 00:21:26,035 --> 00:21:29,264 {\an8}-John said, "Can you drive down to Olympia, 441 00:21:29,288 --> 00:21:33,393 {\an8}spend an afternoon with Kurt and convince him to stay on 442 00:21:33,417 --> 00:21:34,811 Sub Pop?" 443 00:21:34,835 --> 00:21:37,022 -Having lost Soundgarden to another label 444 00:21:37,046 --> 00:21:40,192 in Sub Pop's earliest days, Pavitt is anxious 445 00:21:40,216 --> 00:21:44,821 to avoid having it happen again with Nirvana. 446 00:21:44,845 --> 00:21:48,283 -I went down to Kurt's place and I brought two records... 447 00:21:48,307 --> 00:21:51,036 A songwriter named Daniel Johnston 448 00:21:51,060 --> 00:21:53,788 and a vintage disk that had a cult following 449 00:21:53,812 --> 00:21:56,416 by a teen girl group called The Shaggs. 450 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,461 These were the two most outsider records 451 00:21:59,485 --> 00:22:01,338 I had in my entire collection, 452 00:22:01,362 --> 00:22:05,383 and I brought those with me as a gift. 453 00:22:05,407 --> 00:22:09,012 My point was we are an indie label. 454 00:22:09,036 --> 00:22:12,724 We are always going to champion the outsider. 455 00:22:12,748 --> 00:22:15,644 Major labels do not think that way. 456 00:22:15,668 --> 00:22:17,896 You'll have a brief opportunity. 457 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,856 If it doesn't work out, 458 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,317 you're not going to have a relationship. 459 00:22:22,341 --> 00:22:25,946 We, on the other hand, despite our financial ups and downs, 460 00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:28,865 it's in our spirit, it's in our DNA. 461 00:22:28,889 --> 00:22:30,367 This is what we do. 462 00:22:30,391 --> 00:22:33,286 We basically listened to music all afternoon. 463 00:22:33,310 --> 00:22:38,166 And I left feeling that I had made a connection. 464 00:22:38,190 --> 00:22:44,130 I thought, "Yeah, we bonded. That was great." 465 00:22:44,154 --> 00:22:46,216 Later, I was told that at that time, 466 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,802 Kurt definitely was going to a major 467 00:22:48,826 --> 00:22:50,262 and there was nothing 468 00:22:50,286 --> 00:22:51,888 that I could say that was going to change that. 469 00:22:51,912 --> 00:22:54,224 The part of him that wanted to be a pop star 470 00:22:54,248 --> 00:22:59,354 was starting to come out, and the rest is history. 471 00:22:59,378 --> 00:23:02,315 -Nirvana leaves Sub Pop for Geffen Records. 472 00:23:02,339 --> 00:23:06,194 {\an7}Only months later, they released their second album, "Nevermind". 473 00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:08,947 {\an8}The first single, "Smells Like Teen Spirit", 474 00:23:08,971 --> 00:23:10,407 {\an8}goes triple platinum. 475 00:23:10,431 --> 00:23:12,117 {\an8}-There were a bunch of different radio programmers 476 00:23:12,141 --> 00:23:13,451 {\an8}and record label people. 477 00:23:13,475 --> 00:23:15,161 {\an8}We were all outside CBG 478 00:23:15,185 --> 00:23:17,247 {\an8}for some showcase in New York City, 479 00:23:17,271 --> 00:23:19,708 and the whole conversation on the sidewalk 480 00:23:19,732 --> 00:23:22,168 was all about this new song. 481 00:23:22,192 --> 00:23:24,379 What are the lyrics? What is he saying? 482 00:23:24,403 --> 00:23:26,715 We felt that it was a tremor of something 483 00:23:26,739 --> 00:23:30,802 that was starting to happen. Major earthquake, a blow torch. 484 00:23:30,826 --> 00:23:34,514 -♪ With the lights out, it's less dangerous ♪ 485 00:23:34,538 --> 00:23:36,016 ♪ Here we are now... ♪ 486 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,518 - "Nevermind" knocks hair bands off the charts 487 00:23:38,542 --> 00:23:41,771 {\an8}and catapults grunge into the top 40. 488 00:23:41,795 --> 00:23:43,648 {\an8}-Something happened. 489 00:23:43,672 --> 00:23:47,444 {\an8}They flip the script and they were the crazy... the big band. 490 00:23:47,468 --> 00:23:49,404 Just almost overnight. 491 00:23:49,428 --> 00:23:53,658 -Another Seattle band is ascending right behind Nirvana. 492 00:23:53,682 --> 00:23:56,202 Pearl Jam, whose first album, "Ten", 493 00:23:56,226 --> 00:23:58,997 was released a month before "Nevermind", 494 00:23:59,021 --> 00:24:03,168 helped cement grunge as a new mainstream music genre. 495 00:24:03,192 --> 00:24:07,672 -Soundgarden, Screaming Trees, Pearl Jam, and Alice in Chains 496 00:24:07,696 --> 00:24:10,925 {\an8}all winding up on the major label album charts. 497 00:24:10,949 --> 00:24:12,218 And then Nirvana, of course, 498 00:24:12,242 --> 00:24:14,304 blowing everybody out of the water. 499 00:24:14,328 --> 00:24:17,307 -Suddenly, the once overlooked city of Seattle 500 00:24:17,331 --> 00:24:19,476 is the hottest town in the country. 501 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:22,103 -And there was definitely a gold rush. 502 00:24:22,127 --> 00:24:24,022 All the major record labels in the world 503 00:24:24,046 --> 00:24:25,732 were rushing to Seattle. 504 00:24:25,756 --> 00:24:29,944 -As long as you had a name that was like two distinct nouns 505 00:24:29,968 --> 00:24:31,529 and you shoved them together, 506 00:24:31,553 --> 00:24:34,199 the record labels were looking for it. 507 00:24:34,223 --> 00:24:36,409 -Grunge is A... a Marine Corps private, 508 00:24:36,433 --> 00:24:39,621 {\an8}B... a new breakfast cereal, C... none of the above. 509 00:24:39,645 --> 00:24:42,415 If you answered none of the above, you're right. 510 00:24:42,439 --> 00:24:45,794 What they are are forms of alternative music. 511 00:24:45,818 --> 00:24:47,462 -We all could see what was happening. 512 00:24:47,486 --> 00:24:50,006 This grunge thing had taken on a life of its own 513 00:24:50,030 --> 00:24:52,491 and had become kind of a fad. 514 00:24:54,576 --> 00:24:57,639 -The grunge phenomenon... I had mixed feelings about it. 515 00:24:57,663 --> 00:24:59,432 On the one hand, 516 00:24:59,456 --> 00:25:02,352 I was slightly amused that it had taken off, 517 00:25:02,376 --> 00:25:04,979 you know, Marc Jacobs' runway show 518 00:25:05,003 --> 00:25:06,606 and the movie singles. 519 00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:08,483 It was kind of amusing, 520 00:25:08,507 --> 00:25:10,402 the desperation of the mainstream culture 521 00:25:10,426 --> 00:25:13,238 of wanting to figure out what was going on. 522 00:25:13,262 --> 00:25:16,700 -It was this whole lifestyle or the presumed lifestyle 523 00:25:16,724 --> 00:25:19,202 {\an8}that we had up here that was being marketed. 524 00:25:19,226 --> 00:25:20,912 "Oh, yes, they drink microbrews all the time", 525 00:25:20,936 --> 00:25:22,455 and "Oh, they all wear plaid." 526 00:25:22,479 --> 00:25:24,791 It was fascinating watching this phenomenon 527 00:25:24,815 --> 00:25:27,669 develop from the ground up. 528 00:25:27,693 --> 00:25:30,296 - "The New York Times" called my business partner, 529 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,592 Jonathan Poneman, to share some in-the-know grunge slang, 530 00:25:34,616 --> 00:25:37,929 and he was smart enough to allow our receptionist, 531 00:25:37,953 --> 00:25:39,848 Megan Jasper, to answer that question. 532 00:25:39,872 --> 00:25:44,436 And she just spontaneously came up with the craziest stuff... 533 00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:47,564 {\an8}"wacky slacks", "swinging on the flippity flop". 534 00:25:47,588 --> 00:25:52,026 {\an8}She later told me, "I kept getting stranger and stranger 535 00:25:52,050 --> 00:25:55,280 and I just thought at some point, they'd realize 536 00:25:55,304 --> 00:25:57,240 that this was a joke, 537 00:25:57,264 --> 00:25:59,534 and they just kept going with it." 538 00:25:59,558 --> 00:26:01,035 To this day, I think it's just 539 00:26:01,059 --> 00:26:04,706 one of the most brilliant pranks ever. 540 00:26:04,730 --> 00:26:08,543 -Anything that becomes remotely successful, 541 00:26:08,567 --> 00:26:10,712 they are going to try and make money off of it. 542 00:26:10,736 --> 00:26:12,881 I mean, people have been doing that forever. 543 00:26:12,905 --> 00:26:16,217 Any kind of pop culture thing kind of cannibalizes itself 544 00:26:16,241 --> 00:26:18,011 at some point. 545 00:26:18,035 --> 00:26:19,721 -Sub Pop's dream of turning the Seattle 546 00:26:19,745 --> 00:26:23,224 sound into a global phenomenon comes true. 547 00:26:23,248 --> 00:26:27,896 But as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. 548 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,567 -Indie bands started to see this phenomenal success. 549 00:26:32,591 --> 00:26:36,613 Sub Pop, to our credit, we gave focus to the scene. 550 00:26:36,637 --> 00:26:40,784 We let the world know that Seattle was blowing up, 551 00:26:40,808 --> 00:26:42,744 and we did our job so well, 552 00:26:42,768 --> 00:26:48,166 there was a stampede towards the major label system. 553 00:26:48,190 --> 00:26:50,752 -Even indie diehards Mudhoney 554 00:26:50,776 --> 00:26:54,422 are lured away by one of the corporate giants. 555 00:26:54,446 --> 00:26:57,592 But as Sub Pop's roster departs to chase big money, 556 00:26:57,616 --> 00:27:01,262 the company's survival is tied to a 10 cent investment 557 00:27:01,286 --> 00:27:03,681 it had made years earlier. 558 00:27:03,705 --> 00:27:06,643 -Typically, indie labels did not have contracts. 559 00:27:06,667 --> 00:27:08,228 It was a handshake deal. 560 00:27:08,252 --> 00:27:09,813 Once a record became profitable, 561 00:27:09,837 --> 00:27:13,233 the profits were split 50/50 with the artist. 562 00:27:13,257 --> 00:27:16,736 That's just what you did. 563 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,908 {\an8}However, a few months after we released "Bleach", 564 00:27:21,932 --> 00:27:25,036 the bass player, Krist Novoselic, came to my house 565 00:27:25,060 --> 00:27:28,957 late at night in a somewhat aggravated state. 566 00:27:28,981 --> 00:27:33,378 I was actually kind of nervous because Chris is a big guy 567 00:27:33,402 --> 00:27:36,881 and he seemed very intent on getting a contract. 568 00:27:36,905 --> 00:27:38,383 He wanted to be protected. 569 00:27:38,407 --> 00:27:42,178 So the next day, John went to the public library 570 00:27:42,202 --> 00:27:46,474 and Xeroxed a boilerplate contract, 571 00:27:46,498 --> 00:27:50,478 used a little White-Out, massaged it a little bit. 572 00:27:50,502 --> 00:27:51,896 I mean, this contract cost us 573 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,898 10 cents to make. 574 00:27:53,922 --> 00:27:55,483 -That boilerplate contract 575 00:27:55,507 --> 00:27:58,486 becomes Sub Pop's financial lifeline 576 00:27:58,510 --> 00:28:00,822 by allowing the company to earn a percentage of both 577 00:28:00,846 --> 00:28:04,701 "Bleach" and the highly successful "Nevermind". 578 00:28:04,725 --> 00:28:07,579 {\an8}-Royalties came in from "Nevermind" 579 00:28:07,603 --> 00:28:11,207 {\an8}and really helped the label out a lot. 580 00:28:11,231 --> 00:28:14,168 -While Nirvana's success helps keep the lights on 581 00:28:14,192 --> 00:28:15,753 at Sub Pop Records, 582 00:28:15,777 --> 00:28:19,698 for Kurt Cobain, it brings only darkness. 583 00:28:24,286 --> 00:28:26,764 -Until we confirm and notify the family, 584 00:28:26,788 --> 00:28:28,182 we will not release the name. 585 00:28:28,206 --> 00:28:30,393 -A friend of Kurt called me up 586 00:28:30,417 --> 00:28:33,295 and said, "Hey, did you hear what happened?" 587 00:28:40,385 --> 00:28:44,157 -Like so many things in life, drugs work in cycles. 588 00:28:44,181 --> 00:28:46,534 20 years ago, heroin was the rage, 589 00:28:46,558 --> 00:28:48,745 and you better believe it's back. 590 00:28:48,769 --> 00:28:51,331 -This is not a picture, in my view, of a nation 591 00:28:51,355 --> 00:28:53,708 winning a drug war. 592 00:28:53,732 --> 00:28:56,336 -In the '90s, cities across America see 593 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,130 the resurrection of the beast, 594 00:28:59,154 --> 00:29:00,840 another name for heroin. 595 00:29:00,864 --> 00:29:05,303 And Seattle's grunge scene is ground zero. 596 00:29:05,327 --> 00:29:08,097 -Heroin related deaths are up across the country, 597 00:29:08,121 --> 00:29:10,475 {\an8}doubling over the past three years, in Seattle. 598 00:29:10,499 --> 00:29:12,101 -Heroin has always been there. 599 00:29:12,125 --> 00:29:15,647 {\an8}It's like this dark demon through the rock and roll world, 600 00:29:15,671 --> 00:29:18,316 {\an8}rock business for all these years, you know? 601 00:29:18,340 --> 00:29:20,485 {\an8}And not everybody gets out like Keith Richards, man. 602 00:29:20,509 --> 00:29:24,781 -And by the decade's end, the drug will kill a half dozen 603 00:29:24,805 --> 00:29:27,766 of grunge music's brightest stars. 604 00:29:30,644 --> 00:29:34,082 {\an8}But it's one of those deaths that sent shockwaves 605 00:29:34,106 --> 00:29:35,500 {\an8}around the world. 606 00:29:35,524 --> 00:29:36,918 -For people too young 607 00:29:36,942 --> 00:29:39,087 to remember when Jim Morrison or Jimi Hendrix 608 00:29:39,111 --> 00:29:43,174 or even John Lennon died, the death of Kurt Cobain 609 00:29:43,198 --> 00:29:45,885 evoked a similar sense of loss. 610 00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:47,553 -Everybody in the world knows where they were, 611 00:29:47,577 --> 00:29:49,263 like, people talk about when they knew 612 00:29:49,287 --> 00:29:51,057 where they were when Kennedy was shot. 613 00:29:51,081 --> 00:29:54,769 People know where they were when Kurt Cobain committed suicide. 614 00:29:54,793 --> 00:29:58,272 I mean, it affecting an entire generation. 615 00:29:58,296 --> 00:30:00,441 -Reports that Kurt was high on heroin 616 00:30:00,465 --> 00:30:03,945 when he pulled the trigger will make the drug central 617 00:30:03,969 --> 00:30:06,614 to the story of his suicide. 618 00:30:06,638 --> 00:30:09,867 {\an8}-I woke up that morning and I'd run into Kurt 619 00:30:09,891 --> 00:30:10,994 {\an8}a couple weeks earlier 620 00:30:11,018 --> 00:30:13,287 {\an8}and he'd give me his phone number. 621 00:30:13,311 --> 00:30:15,790 And I thought, "Oh, man, I should call Kurt. 622 00:30:15,814 --> 00:30:17,875 You know, I know he's kind of lonely." 623 00:30:17,899 --> 00:30:20,962 And and I looked at the clock and it was like 10:30. 624 00:30:20,986 --> 00:30:24,132 And I'm like, "No, that's way too early for him. 625 00:30:24,156 --> 00:30:25,717 I'll call him later." 626 00:30:25,741 --> 00:30:28,136 And then the phone rang and it was literally 627 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,931 "Entertainment Weekly", "Rolling Stone", "Time". 628 00:30:31,955 --> 00:30:33,307 Internalized it, 629 00:30:33,331 --> 00:30:35,601 and just for the next two or three days, 630 00:30:35,625 --> 00:30:39,689 just made prints to fill magazine requests 631 00:30:39,713 --> 00:30:43,234 and then just kind of had a nervous breakdown after that. 632 00:30:43,258 --> 00:30:46,303 {\an8}♪♪ 633 00:30:58,815 --> 00:31:02,837 -Kurt's death is a loss for music lovers everywhere, 634 00:31:02,861 --> 00:31:04,130 but nowhere does it cut 635 00:31:04,154 --> 00:31:08,468 as deeply as the Seattle music scene. 636 00:31:08,492 --> 00:31:11,679 {\an8}-They had a public memorial. There's a fountain 637 00:31:11,703 --> 00:31:13,598 {\an8}and there's a huge bowl. 638 00:31:13,622 --> 00:31:16,517 And people just filled it completely, 639 00:31:16,541 --> 00:31:19,604 just this whole sea of people there. 640 00:31:19,628 --> 00:31:21,189 It was just quite amazing 641 00:31:21,213 --> 00:31:23,524 {\an8}and astonishing to see. 642 00:31:23,548 --> 00:31:27,695 {\an8}-That news was very devastating. 643 00:31:27,719 --> 00:31:31,783 {\an8}Felt really sorry for his daughter. 644 00:31:31,807 --> 00:31:34,327 I had a daughter who was about the same age at the time. 645 00:31:34,351 --> 00:31:36,579 And to think of the effect 646 00:31:36,603 --> 00:31:40,291 that that would have on his kid was just... 647 00:31:40,315 --> 00:31:42,484 It's hard to process. 648 00:31:44,152 --> 00:31:48,341 Kurt was highly sensitive, a creative artist type, 649 00:31:48,365 --> 00:31:51,928 who rapidly became one of the world's biggest rock stars 650 00:31:51,952 --> 00:31:55,348 after growing up in a remote town. 651 00:31:55,372 --> 00:31:56,974 -I mean, I think it's that whole thing 652 00:31:56,998 --> 00:32:00,061 where you want that success, but you don't want all 653 00:32:00,085 --> 00:32:02,271 the things that go along with it necessarily. 654 00:32:02,295 --> 00:32:05,233 All of those responsibilities, like the meet and greets, 655 00:32:05,257 --> 00:32:06,692 the dealing with radio stations, 656 00:32:06,716 --> 00:32:07,777 all the press. 657 00:32:07,801 --> 00:32:09,237 Some people can handle it, 658 00:32:09,261 --> 00:32:12,824 but some people are socially uncomfortable. 659 00:32:12,848 --> 00:32:17,537 -Personally, I had to rethink about what I was doing 660 00:32:17,561 --> 00:32:21,290 with my life. I mean, I helped discover this guy, 661 00:32:21,314 --> 00:32:23,084 I helped promote the act. 662 00:32:23,108 --> 00:32:26,587 In a way, was just kind of a fairy tale scenario. 663 00:32:26,611 --> 00:32:28,631 We're all doing what we were supposed to do 664 00:32:28,655 --> 00:32:31,425 and this is how it ends? 665 00:32:31,449 --> 00:32:35,388 -Even as the founders of Sub Pop mourn the loss of Kurt Cobain, 666 00:32:35,412 --> 00:32:39,767 they also faced the prospect of losing their business. 667 00:32:39,791 --> 00:32:42,645 Record companies being crushed by major labels 668 00:32:42,669 --> 00:32:45,314 flocking to capitalize on the grunge scene 669 00:32:45,338 --> 00:32:47,608 that Sub Pop helped create. 670 00:32:47,632 --> 00:32:50,611 -It was really hard to compete for the artists, 671 00:32:50,635 --> 00:32:55,449 so it was an epic struggle keeping people paid. 672 00:32:55,473 --> 00:32:57,952 We had employees, they had mortgages. 673 00:32:57,976 --> 00:33:00,037 We had to keep things going. 674 00:33:00,061 --> 00:33:01,831 -The thing is, you got to remember 675 00:33:01,855 --> 00:33:03,416 that Sub Pop had ambitions, 676 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,668 {\an8}but they still didn't have the money 677 00:33:05,692 --> 00:33:08,296 to get a band into the mainstream 678 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,133 and into the media in a country the size of the United States. 679 00:33:12,157 --> 00:33:15,469 So the bands figured this out 680 00:33:15,493 --> 00:33:19,765 {\an1}and knew that if they were going to try and make a career of it, 681 00:33:19,789 --> 00:33:22,393 that they needed to somehow affiliate themselves 682 00:33:22,417 --> 00:33:25,771 with the real music industry "machinery" 683 00:33:25,795 --> 00:33:27,899 that was established. 684 00:33:27,923 --> 00:33:30,026 -Unable to attract new talent, 685 00:33:30,050 --> 00:33:32,987 the little indie label that could starts running out 686 00:33:33,011 --> 00:33:34,197 of steam. 687 00:33:34,221 --> 00:33:36,324 To avoid derailing completely, 688 00:33:36,348 --> 00:33:41,829 they do something that would have once seemed inconceivable. 689 00:33:41,853 --> 00:33:43,748 They sell out. 690 00:33:43,772 --> 00:33:47,501 -We eventually did a deal with Warner Music. 691 00:33:47,525 --> 00:33:49,921 We only sold 49% of the company, 692 00:33:49,945 --> 00:33:54,592 which was unheard of, so we maintained control. 693 00:33:54,616 --> 00:33:57,428 -But even with the new backing of a major label, 694 00:33:57,452 --> 00:34:00,848 Sub Pop struggles to reinvent itself. 695 00:34:00,872 --> 00:34:03,434 -Once Sub Pop hooked up with Warner's, 696 00:34:03,458 --> 00:34:05,186 they have more money to work with. 697 00:34:05,210 --> 00:34:06,938 They were just blowing it again. 698 00:34:06,962 --> 00:34:11,025 They poured too much money into acts that didn't pay off. 699 00:34:11,049 --> 00:34:14,487 -It was like a classic trap of "What would the majors do? 700 00:34:14,511 --> 00:34:17,073 They would sign this band for a quarter million dollars." 701 00:34:17,097 --> 00:34:18,866 Like, what the... are we doing? 702 00:34:18,890 --> 00:34:22,078 So... 703 00:34:22,102 --> 00:34:23,812 that was dumb. 704 00:34:26,690 --> 00:34:32,797 -When things get so big, we tend to lose control of it. 705 00:34:32,821 --> 00:34:35,091 There's that many more cooks in the kitchen 706 00:34:35,115 --> 00:34:37,843 and you want the money for what you've done 707 00:34:37,867 --> 00:34:40,721 and be compensated for all the hard work. 708 00:34:40,745 --> 00:34:44,475 And at the same time, it loses its original manifesto, 709 00:34:44,499 --> 00:34:46,352 its reason for being. 710 00:34:46,376 --> 00:34:49,730 -Soon after signing with Warner, the Sub Pop founders 711 00:34:49,754 --> 00:34:53,150 will be forced to make an agonizing decision. 712 00:34:53,174 --> 00:34:54,494 -You can't just abandon your baby. 713 00:34:59,806 --> 00:35:01,826 -It's the middle of the decade and grunge is now mainstream. 714 00:35:01,850 --> 00:35:03,828 Seattle's once vibrant indie scene 715 00:35:03,852 --> 00:35:07,290 is anything but independent. 716 00:35:07,314 --> 00:35:10,293 Even the owners of Sub Pop have been forced to partner 717 00:35:10,317 --> 00:35:13,087 with mega-label Warner Music, 718 00:35:13,111 --> 00:35:17,550 but the marriage is troubled almost from the start. 719 00:35:17,574 --> 00:35:20,177 -For me, coming out of the indie culture, 720 00:35:20,201 --> 00:35:24,223 once you shift from hiring friends 721 00:35:24,247 --> 00:35:27,184 who are smart and creative 722 00:35:27,208 --> 00:35:29,729 to "Let's look at resumes from people 723 00:35:29,753 --> 00:35:31,772 who've worked in corporate environments 724 00:35:31,796 --> 00:35:33,566 because we need to grow up. 725 00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:36,944 We need people who have relationships with MTV," 726 00:35:36,968 --> 00:35:39,780 it's a different vibe, if you will. 727 00:35:39,804 --> 00:35:43,200 And this is something that has killed creative 728 00:35:43,224 --> 00:35:45,077 organizations over and over again, 729 00:35:45,101 --> 00:35:47,830 when accountants by creative organizations 730 00:35:47,854 --> 00:35:50,624 and then start telling people what to do. 731 00:35:50,648 --> 00:35:52,460 -The tension is fracturing the bond 732 00:35:52,484 --> 00:35:54,503 between Pavitt and Poneman. 733 00:35:54,527 --> 00:35:57,923 Their personal differences that they once celebrated 734 00:35:57,947 --> 00:36:00,217 now drive a wedge between them. 735 00:36:00,241 --> 00:36:03,971 -I think Bruce was possibly making as many mistakes 736 00:36:03,995 --> 00:36:07,308 or bad decisions as John was at the time. 737 00:36:07,332 --> 00:36:12,605 And then it just was a lot of misunderstandings. 738 00:36:12,629 --> 00:36:13,939 -Like a vinyl record, 739 00:36:13,963 --> 00:36:16,817 there are now two sides at Sub Pop. 740 00:36:16,841 --> 00:36:19,236 On one, Bruce and the indie ethos 741 00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:22,198 that first launched the label. 742 00:36:22,222 --> 00:36:23,657 On the other, John, 743 00:36:23,681 --> 00:36:25,785 trying to appease the corporate moneymen 744 00:36:25,809 --> 00:36:29,246 that are keeping them afloat. 745 00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:30,915 -'97 came with what they now call 746 00:36:30,939 --> 00:36:33,834 "the coup" in Sub Pop's history, 747 00:36:33,858 --> 00:36:37,922 where some members of the company confronted John 748 00:36:37,946 --> 00:36:40,341 with how Sub Pop was being run. 749 00:36:40,365 --> 00:36:43,177 They finally present him a letter with their demands. 750 00:36:43,201 --> 00:36:46,347 They weren't trying to oust Jonathan by any means, 751 00:36:46,371 --> 00:36:49,683 but they felt things should be going in another direction 752 00:36:49,707 --> 00:36:51,685 and these people should be hired 753 00:36:51,709 --> 00:36:54,230 and perhaps others should be let go. 754 00:36:54,254 --> 00:36:57,274 Jonathan took it as too much of a challenge to his authority, 755 00:36:57,298 --> 00:36:59,026 and he felt he was being undermined. 756 00:36:59,050 --> 00:37:01,654 And his response was to fire the four 757 00:37:01,678 --> 00:37:03,864 that had written the letter. 758 00:37:03,888 --> 00:37:06,909 -I was very upset when John fired some employees 759 00:37:06,933 --> 00:37:08,619 who I personally felt 760 00:37:08,643 --> 00:37:13,332 were actually the most valuable employees in the company. 761 00:37:13,356 --> 00:37:16,210 In fact, I was so upset I didn't just leave Sub Pop. 762 00:37:16,234 --> 00:37:20,881 I moved from Seattle to a remote island. 763 00:37:20,905 --> 00:37:25,136 I just took a hard left turn and left the biz. 764 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,889 -It made two guys that I think are so amazing 765 00:37:28,913 --> 00:37:30,641 be at odds with each other, and there was friction, 766 00:37:30,665 --> 00:37:34,437 and, you know, they didn't speak for a very long time. 767 00:37:34,461 --> 00:37:37,565 -Even though Bruce and John are somewhat equal, 768 00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:38,983 Bruce was the figurehead. 769 00:37:39,007 --> 00:37:41,402 I mean, he was the weird bald guy 770 00:37:41,426 --> 00:37:47,116 with the occasional Castro beard and he represented Sub Pop. 771 00:37:47,140 --> 00:37:50,035 And so, for him to give it all up and leave was... 772 00:37:50,059 --> 00:37:52,580 Yeah, that shocked everybody. 773 00:37:52,604 --> 00:37:54,165 I mean, this is your baby. 774 00:37:54,189 --> 00:37:57,626 Like, you can't just abandon your baby, you know? 775 00:37:57,650 --> 00:37:59,503 But I guess you can. 776 00:37:59,527 --> 00:38:02,006 -After the coup and Bruce being angry 777 00:38:02,030 --> 00:38:04,175 at how things went down, Bruce and John, 778 00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:07,011 they didn't communicate except through their attorneys. 779 00:38:07,035 --> 00:38:08,929 Bruce sold his shares in the company, 780 00:38:08,953 --> 00:38:12,057 which sort of... now he has no attachment anymore. 781 00:38:12,081 --> 00:38:15,293 He described as being like settling a divorce. 782 00:38:19,130 --> 00:38:20,900 -I would say the middle of the '90s, 783 00:38:20,924 --> 00:38:22,902 guitars even kind of went out of favor 784 00:38:22,926 --> 00:38:25,446 for a while after Kurt died. 785 00:38:25,470 --> 00:38:27,990 People sort of got a little wake up call 786 00:38:28,014 --> 00:38:29,533 and just kind of said, 787 00:38:29,557 --> 00:38:31,160 "Is there some other music we could listen to?" 788 00:38:31,184 --> 00:38:34,038 I called it the big grunge hangover, 789 00:38:34,062 --> 00:38:36,624 because I could tell that, you know, 790 00:38:36,648 --> 00:38:39,001 this thing had blown up and now everybody was like... 791 00:38:39,025 --> 00:38:40,711 It's like they wake up the next morning 792 00:38:40,735 --> 00:38:43,839 with a headache and go, "Oh, what was all that about?" 793 00:38:43,863 --> 00:38:47,801 -But music, like nature, abhors a vacuum. 794 00:38:47,825 --> 00:38:50,638 And what fills the one left by grunge? 795 00:38:50,662 --> 00:38:53,807 -♪ Oh, baby, it's no lie ♪ 796 00:38:53,831 --> 00:38:56,977 ♪ I never thought I'd make you cry ♪ 797 00:38:57,001 --> 00:38:58,812 -Is that, like, Mini-Me over there next to you? 798 00:38:58,836 --> 00:39:01,273 [ Cheering ] 799 00:39:01,297 --> 00:39:03,692 -Things changed a lot at the end of the '90s. 800 00:39:03,716 --> 00:39:07,321 The boy bands really took a hold on popular culture. 801 00:39:07,345 --> 00:39:11,200 Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, 98 Degrees. 802 00:39:11,224 --> 00:39:15,454 -Mid-'90s boy bands are factory produced by label executives, 803 00:39:15,478 --> 00:39:17,873 and the performers rarely, if ever, 804 00:39:17,897 --> 00:39:21,168 write their own songs or play any instruments. 805 00:39:21,192 --> 00:39:24,296 The days of rain inspired angst music of the Seattle 806 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,968 sound is replaced by blue skies and bubblegum. 807 00:39:28,992 --> 00:39:31,136 -Things had changed in a big way, and they do. 808 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,347 You know, everything's so cyclical in music 809 00:39:33,371 --> 00:39:35,057 and the way things go. 810 00:39:35,081 --> 00:39:37,518 -With most of the world moving on from grunge, 811 00:39:37,542 --> 00:39:40,729 many see the indie label who helped launch it 812 00:39:40,753 --> 00:39:43,190 as both corporate and irrelevant. 813 00:39:43,214 --> 00:39:47,027 But Sub Pop is about to prove these people wrong. 814 00:39:47,051 --> 00:39:49,178 -The best part of the story is the comeback. 815 00:39:54,058 --> 00:39:56,036 -Seattle kind of came of age in the '90s. 816 00:39:56,060 --> 00:40:00,374 Amazon came into play. Starbucks started to accelerate. 817 00:40:00,398 --> 00:40:03,586 There was an identity transformation 818 00:40:03,610 --> 00:40:06,714 that happened in Seattle in the '90s, and all of a sudden, 819 00:40:06,738 --> 00:40:09,008 Seattle became the place to move to, 820 00:40:09,032 --> 00:40:11,427 and that had a lot to do with the vibrancy 821 00:40:11,451 --> 00:40:14,972 of the entrepreneurial culture of Seattle. 822 00:40:14,996 --> 00:40:17,766 -Seattle's transformation from damp backwater 823 00:40:17,790 --> 00:40:21,478 to destination city couldn't have happened without Sub Pop 824 00:40:21,502 --> 00:40:25,190 or the grunge movement that put them on the map. 825 00:40:25,214 --> 00:40:30,487 But that metamorphosis wasn't without its casualties. 826 00:40:30,511 --> 00:40:34,158 The tragic loss of Kurt Cobain in 1994 827 00:40:34,182 --> 00:40:38,078 is followed by the death of two more icons. 828 00:40:38,102 --> 00:40:40,205 Alice in Chains frontman Layne Staley 829 00:40:40,229 --> 00:40:45,461 overdosed eight years to the day of Cobain's suicide, 830 00:40:45,485 --> 00:40:49,340 and in 2017, Soundgarden's Chris Cornell 831 00:40:49,364 --> 00:40:51,342 ended his life after a long struggle 832 00:40:51,366 --> 00:40:54,053 with addiction and depression. 833 00:40:54,077 --> 00:40:56,221 But unlike those legends, 834 00:40:56,245 --> 00:41:00,958 Sub Pop records will neither burn out nor fade away. 835 00:41:03,711 --> 00:41:06,565 -Megan Jasper really helped turn Sub Pop around. 836 00:41:06,589 --> 00:41:08,108 She had a long history with the label. 837 00:41:08,132 --> 00:41:10,611 She had worked for them in the late '80s 838 00:41:10,635 --> 00:41:12,988 and early '90s and been laid off. 839 00:41:13,012 --> 00:41:14,948 -Megan Jasper is the woman who delivered her 840 00:41:14,972 --> 00:41:19,286 fake glossary of grunge terms to the media years earlier. 841 00:41:19,310 --> 00:41:22,331 -Then in '97, she decided to come back 842 00:41:22,355 --> 00:41:24,458 and she said that, you know, some of her friends 843 00:41:24,482 --> 00:41:25,876 and others were saying, you know, 844 00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:27,127 "Why do you want to go back there? 845 00:41:27,151 --> 00:41:28,629 They're in trouble now," which they were. 846 00:41:28,653 --> 00:41:30,464 And she knew that. She actually told me that 847 00:41:30,488 --> 00:41:32,591 the staff was so demoralized that they wouldn't wear 848 00:41:32,615 --> 00:41:36,261 Sub Pop T-shirts because they were too embarrassed by it. 849 00:41:36,285 --> 00:41:40,415 So she kind of seemed like a cheerleader in a sense. 850 00:41:41,666 --> 00:41:45,312 {\an8}-♪ I am thinking it's a sign ♪ 851 00:41:45,336 --> 00:41:48,440 -Soon after Megan's arrival that you had the successes 852 00:41:48,464 --> 00:41:51,026 with The Shins and then The Postal Service, 853 00:41:51,050 --> 00:41:53,320 and again, another unexpected success, 854 00:41:53,344 --> 00:41:56,907 {\an1}they turn out to be a big seller and that really helped Sub Pop. 855 00:41:56,931 --> 00:41:58,659 -Sub Pop's second wave gives the label 856 00:41:58,683 --> 00:42:02,329 its second platinum record after Nirvana's "Bleach". 857 00:42:02,353 --> 00:42:04,748 Postal Service is a new generation 858 00:42:04,772 --> 00:42:06,750 of indie bands out of Seattle, 859 00:42:06,774 --> 00:42:10,587 and their album, "Give Up" speaks to a whole new age. 860 00:42:10,611 --> 00:42:15,467 -♪ They will see us waving from such great heights ♪ 861 00:42:15,491 --> 00:42:18,053 ♪ Come down now... ♪ 862 00:42:18,077 --> 00:42:21,515 -Sub Pop survived, and a lot of the indie labels 863 00:42:21,539 --> 00:42:26,520 from that era did not, so Sub Pop did something right. 864 00:42:26,544 --> 00:42:28,605 -They're willing to try different things. 865 00:42:28,629 --> 00:42:30,524 They've been able to reinvent themselves 866 00:42:30,548 --> 00:42:33,652 and they're running in a more financially responsible manner. 867 00:42:33,676 --> 00:42:36,196 Megan Jasper is now, I believe, CEO. 868 00:42:36,220 --> 00:42:37,698 It's interesting to note that some of the bands 869 00:42:37,722 --> 00:42:40,451 that left came back. 870 00:42:40,475 --> 00:42:42,453 -Mudhoney is back on Sub Pop now, actually, 871 00:42:42,477 --> 00:42:44,288 and quite happy with it, I think. 872 00:42:44,312 --> 00:42:45,581 -Sub Pop's slogan is 873 00:42:45,605 --> 00:42:47,708 "Going out of business since 1988", 874 00:42:47,732 --> 00:42:49,835 and now they're a Seattle institution. 875 00:42:49,859 --> 00:42:52,463 Now, who would have thought that this company that worried 876 00:42:52,487 --> 00:42:54,214 they were going to have to close their doors 877 00:42:54,238 --> 00:42:56,633 after their first month's operation 878 00:42:56,657 --> 00:43:00,721 and they just had their 30th anniversary in 2018. 879 00:43:00,745 --> 00:43:04,558 -They do have a nice ending to this story. 880 00:43:04,582 --> 00:43:09,062 John and I reconnected in the early aughts. 881 00:43:09,086 --> 00:43:11,648 As I started really appreciating the music 882 00:43:11,672 --> 00:43:14,067 and really appreciating the wonderful work 883 00:43:14,091 --> 00:43:16,570 that John and Megan has done, 884 00:43:16,594 --> 00:43:19,722 John and I just started talking more and more. 885 00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:24,995 -Eventually, Bruce Pavitt also returns to the label 886 00:43:25,019 --> 00:43:26,789 he co-founded. 887 00:43:26,813 --> 00:43:31,001 He now serves as a consultant to John Poneman at Sub Pop. 888 00:43:31,025 --> 00:43:32,961 -We were able to help blow up Seattle 889 00:43:32,985 --> 00:43:37,883 with nothing more than a phone and a writing utensil. 890 00:43:37,907 --> 00:43:39,551 That was an exciting adventure. 891 00:43:39,575 --> 00:43:42,805 {\an8}And it's something I'll always really, really value. 892 00:43:42,829 --> 00:43:45,432 {\an8}-There were times when they were hanging on by a thread, 893 00:43:45,456 --> 00:43:47,851 {\an8}almost bankrupt, almost out of money, 894 00:43:47,875 --> 00:43:50,896 {\an8}yet came back and became a very important 895 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,564 {\an8}and viable label again. 896 00:43:52,588 --> 00:43:55,275 {\an8}You know, that's the sign of a great label. 897 00:43:55,299 --> 00:43:56,777 {\an8}I can honestly say that. 898 00:43:56,801 --> 00:43:58,779 {\an8}-It's a happy ending. 899 00:43:58,803 --> 00:44:00,221 {\an8}[ Chuckles ]