1 00:00:07,941 --> 00:00:08,985 {\an8}-I thought the most outrageous thing 2 00:00:09,009 --> 00:00:10,420 {\an8}I could do in this lifetime 3 00:00:10,444 --> 00:00:11,821 {\an8}was to have sex with 300 men, so I did it. 4 00:00:11,845 --> 00:00:13,723 {\an8}-In the '90s, talk shows are the most 5 00:00:13,747 --> 00:00:16,492 {\an8}provocative thing on television. 6 00:00:16,516 --> 00:00:20,363 -You had Oprah, Sally, Phil, Geraldo, myself. 7 00:00:20,387 --> 00:00:23,333 -At one time, there were two dozen talk shows 8 00:00:23,357 --> 00:00:25,034 competing in the marketplace. 9 00:00:25,058 --> 00:00:27,437 {\an8}-You need to find your own man. 10 00:00:27,461 --> 00:00:30,440 {\an8}-And the most violent. 11 00:00:30,464 --> 00:00:34,344 -The fists would start flying, the chairs would start falling. 12 00:00:34,368 --> 00:00:37,413 -They literally tore the place apart. 13 00:00:37,437 --> 00:00:39,515 -No boundaries go uncrossed. 14 00:00:39,539 --> 00:00:40,884 -You can't just do this to me! 15 00:00:40,908 --> 00:00:44,954 {\an8}-None delved as low as Jerry Springer. 16 00:00:44,978 --> 00:00:46,923 -We were the bad guys. 17 00:00:46,947 --> 00:00:48,391 -Until a murder... 18 00:00:48,415 --> 00:00:50,560 -You rub two sticks together and you get fire. 19 00:00:50,584 --> 00:00:52,128 - forces a reckoning. 20 00:00:52,152 --> 00:00:55,131 -It literally became a matter of life and death. 21 00:00:55,155 --> 00:01:03,155 {\an8}♪♪ 22 00:01:03,997 --> 00:01:05,608 [ Internet dial up ] 23 00:01:05,632 --> 00:01:13,632 {\an8}♪♪ 24 00:01:18,078 --> 00:01:22,258 -It is very hard to forgive you for what you did to me, 25 00:01:22,282 --> 00:01:24,160 but I do forgive you. 26 00:01:24,184 --> 00:01:29,732 {\an8}[ Applause ] 27 00:01:29,756 --> 00:01:32,568 {\an8}-Daytime talk shows. 28 00:01:32,592 --> 00:01:34,137 {\an8}No other form of media mirrors 29 00:01:34,161 --> 00:01:36,973 {\an8}the American psyche quite like them, 30 00:01:36,997 --> 00:01:39,342 {\an8}-How many women have gone to the grave 31 00:01:39,366 --> 00:01:41,844 {\an8}never saying anything? 32 00:01:41,868 --> 00:01:44,247 {\an8}- Today, people are revealing... - And in the 90s, 33 00:01:44,271 --> 00:01:46,449 {\an8}they flood the airwaves completely. 34 00:01:46,473 --> 00:01:49,419 {\an8}-At one time, there were two dozen talk shows 35 00:01:49,443 --> 00:01:53,656 {\an8}competing in the marketplace for essentially the same audience. 36 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,859 {\an8}-Oprah, Sally, Phil, Geraldo, myself. 37 00:01:56,883 --> 00:02:00,163 Marilu Henner, Charles Perez, 38 00:02:00,187 --> 00:02:03,666 Vanessa somebody that was on "The Cosby Show". 39 00:02:03,690 --> 00:02:07,437 -We all went after those topics 40 00:02:07,461 --> 00:02:09,272 {\an8}that people had never seen before. 41 00:02:09,296 --> 00:02:12,308 {\an8}-What starts out as a forum to discuss social issues 42 00:02:12,332 --> 00:02:17,780 and current events quickly devolves into pure spectacle. 43 00:02:17,804 --> 00:02:19,983 - "Oprah" was like the mom show. 44 00:02:20,007 --> 00:02:21,718 And then you had "Maury". 45 00:02:21,742 --> 00:02:24,887 {\an8}-When it comes to three-year-old Kanaya, 46 00:02:24,911 --> 00:02:27,957 {\an8}you are not the father. 47 00:02:27,981 --> 00:02:29,525 {\an8}-That was "You are not the father" 48 00:02:29,549 --> 00:02:31,327 {\an8}or "You are the father." 49 00:02:31,351 --> 00:02:34,130 Jerry Jones was like more of a social issues kind of thing. 50 00:02:34,154 --> 00:02:36,399 -You never fit in? Shy? Bookworm? 51 00:02:36,423 --> 00:02:38,134 - Yeah. - Geeky, sort of? 52 00:02:38,158 --> 00:02:42,872 -But when it comes to trash TV, one name says it all. 53 00:02:42,896 --> 00:02:48,378 -[ Audience chanting "Jerry!" ] 54 00:02:48,402 --> 00:02:50,913 [ Cheers and applause ] 55 00:02:50,937 --> 00:02:55,018 - "Jerry Springer" was the show where everybody would fight. 56 00:02:55,042 --> 00:02:57,353 {\an8}-Obviously, she's not doing something right in the bedroom 57 00:02:57,377 --> 00:02:59,922 {\an8}or he wouldn't be coming... - [ Audience shouts ] 58 00:02:59,946 --> 00:03:01,858 {\an8}-That was the fighting show, and, like, 59 00:03:01,882 --> 00:03:03,860 and that's kind of what people would tune in for 60 00:03:03,884 --> 00:03:05,895 and it's definitely what people would go 61 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:07,563 to tapings of the show to see. 62 00:03:07,587 --> 00:03:10,433 {\an8}[ Cheers and applause ] 63 00:03:10,457 --> 00:03:15,371 {\an8}-None delved as low as Jerry Springer. 64 00:03:15,395 --> 00:03:16,706 {\an8}-Here she is... Mom! 65 00:03:16,730 --> 00:03:19,342 {\an8}[ Cheers and applause ] 66 00:03:19,366 --> 00:03:22,211 {\an8}-He was the absolute lowest of the low. 67 00:03:22,235 --> 00:03:23,746 {\an8}-[ Audience chanting "Jerry!"] 68 00:03:23,770 --> 00:03:25,548 {\an8}-I'm Robert Feder. 69 00:03:25,572 --> 00:03:28,251 {\an8}I'm a journalist who's been covering the media in Chicago 70 00:03:28,275 --> 00:03:29,786 for more than 40 years. 71 00:03:29,810 --> 00:03:32,789 -[ Audience chanting "Jerry!" ] 72 00:03:32,813 --> 00:03:35,291 -The irony is that there was a point 73 00:03:35,315 --> 00:03:37,126 at which "The Jerry Springer Show" 74 00:03:37,150 --> 00:03:40,129 was the number one talk show in daytime television. 75 00:03:40,153 --> 00:03:43,866 It actually beat Oprah Winfrey at its peak. 76 00:03:43,890 --> 00:03:47,870 And yet it was a talk show where there was very little talking. 77 00:03:47,894 --> 00:03:49,405 People didn't talk. 78 00:03:49,429 --> 00:03:53,776 It was about the conflict and the "Jerry! Jerry!" 79 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,446 I think most people were watching it and saying, 80 00:03:56,470 --> 00:03:58,648 "Who are these people?" 81 00:03:58,672 --> 00:04:01,384 -The guests, especially on a show like "Jerry Springer", 82 00:04:01,408 --> 00:04:05,555 they want to feel like they're leaving a mark on the world, 83 00:04:05,579 --> 00:04:08,591 and, you know, unless they become 84 00:04:08,615 --> 00:04:11,260 a serial killer or sprout two heads, 85 00:04:11,284 --> 00:04:13,729 how are they going to get on television? 86 00:04:13,753 --> 00:04:15,064 {\an8}-You say you've been a dog. 87 00:04:15,088 --> 00:04:16,799 {\an8}Who have you been a dog with? 88 00:04:16,823 --> 00:04:17,834 {\an8}-Her best friend. 89 00:04:17,858 --> 00:04:19,469 {\an8}-[ Audience cheering ] 90 00:04:19,493 --> 00:04:20,903 {\an8}-My name's Laura Grindstaff. 91 00:04:20,927 --> 00:04:23,172 {\an8}I'm a professor of sociology at UC Davis 92 00:04:23,196 --> 00:04:24,674 {\an8}and I'm the author of a book titled 93 00:04:24,698 --> 00:04:26,275 "The Money Shot: 94 00:04:26,299 --> 00:04:30,513 Trash, Class, and the Making of TV Talk Shows". 95 00:04:30,537 --> 00:04:33,749 -She also once worked on "The Jerry Springer Show". 96 00:04:33,773 --> 00:04:35,785 -I think most people who are in college 97 00:04:35,809 --> 00:04:40,256 in the '90s watched at least some "Jerry Springer". 98 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:42,325 -Me and my roommates would watch "Jerry Springer" 99 00:04:42,349 --> 00:04:45,161 and just smoke, like, terrible dirt weed all the time. 100 00:04:45,185 --> 00:04:46,929 [ Laughs ] 101 00:04:46,953 --> 00:04:49,932 {\an8}My name is Katie Rife, and my first job out of college 102 00:04:49,956 --> 00:04:54,203 {\an8}was as an associate producer on "The Jerry Springer Show". 103 00:04:54,227 --> 00:04:57,707 I think it was the car crash quality of it, 104 00:04:57,731 --> 00:05:00,610 you know, the kind of gawking at a car crash thing. 105 00:05:00,634 --> 00:05:02,478 -You can't just do this to me! No! 106 00:05:02,502 --> 00:05:05,014 -Make it interesting with the sound off, 107 00:05:05,038 --> 00:05:08,451 because a lot of people are just flipping through the TV. 108 00:05:08,475 --> 00:05:10,653 You hit "The Jerry Springer Show", 109 00:05:10,677 --> 00:05:12,546 it's got to make them want to stop. 110 00:05:14,014 --> 00:05:17,126 {\an8}I'm Richard Dominick, and at one time, 111 00:05:17,150 --> 00:05:21,655 I was the executive producer of "The Jerry Springer Show". 112 00:05:23,924 --> 00:05:26,669 Can we back up a little bit? 113 00:05:26,693 --> 00:05:28,137 -In 1991, 114 00:05:28,161 --> 00:05:29,906 Dominick is first hired to be 115 00:05:29,930 --> 00:05:34,177 just one of Jerry Springer's half dozen producers. 116 00:05:34,201 --> 00:05:37,480 -When I first started on "Springer" in Cincinnati, 117 00:05:37,504 --> 00:05:39,048 I didn't know what to expect. 118 00:05:39,072 --> 00:05:42,852 I knew he was a newscaster and he won an Emmy Awards 119 00:05:42,876 --> 00:05:46,489 for being the most popular newscaster in Cincinnati. 120 00:05:46,513 --> 00:05:49,025 And then all of a sudden, this guy came in 121 00:05:49,049 --> 00:05:52,061 and he just looked like a wreck. His hair was all messed up 122 00:05:52,085 --> 00:05:54,830 and he had on a sweater that was too big 123 00:05:54,854 --> 00:05:56,566 and he had sneakers on and jeans. 124 00:05:56,590 --> 00:05:59,902 And we started talking and making jokes and he sat down. 125 00:05:59,926 --> 00:06:02,505 He lit a cigar, and I was a cigar smoker, 126 00:06:02,529 --> 00:06:04,273 and we just hit it off right away. 127 00:06:04,297 --> 00:06:06,509 -What a lot of people don't remember about Jerry Springer 128 00:06:06,533 --> 00:06:11,847 is that Jerry Springer was the mayor of Cincinnati 129 00:06:11,871 --> 00:06:15,017 who literally had to step down from office 130 00:06:15,041 --> 00:06:19,922 because he got caught paying a prostitute with a check. 131 00:06:19,946 --> 00:06:22,425 -He had written a check to a sex worker, 132 00:06:22,449 --> 00:06:27,029 and so he was traced back to that sex worker, 133 00:06:27,053 --> 00:06:28,564 and, you know. 134 00:06:28,588 --> 00:06:31,534 So he had a bit of a scandalous past himself, 135 00:06:31,558 --> 00:06:33,302 even when he was a politician. 136 00:06:33,326 --> 00:06:39,375 And so people knew him before "The Jerry Springer Show". 137 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:41,310 -If you've just joined us, this is our first show, 138 00:06:41,334 --> 00:06:43,379 and we're putting together people 139 00:06:43,403 --> 00:06:46,115 who haven't seen each other for 35 years. 140 00:06:46,139 --> 00:06:48,584 -Back before I took over the show, 141 00:06:48,608 --> 00:06:51,821 when it was a very serious program, 142 00:06:51,845 --> 00:06:56,659 the people running the show, Multimedia Entertainment, 143 00:06:56,683 --> 00:07:00,796 they go over step by step, word for word, 144 00:07:00,820 --> 00:07:02,665 what they wanted him to say. 145 00:07:02,689 --> 00:07:04,734 And he's dressed in a banker suit 146 00:07:04,758 --> 00:07:07,737 and he's got these big, stupid glasses on 147 00:07:07,761 --> 00:07:10,640 like Larry King, you know, those big things. 148 00:07:10,664 --> 00:07:12,441 And his hair was all slicked back 149 00:07:12,465 --> 00:07:15,077 and he looked so uncomfortable. 150 00:07:15,101 --> 00:07:17,780 It was like they had programmed 151 00:07:17,804 --> 00:07:20,816 or were trying to program a robot, 152 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:26,188 because in their head, he was Phil Donahue. 153 00:07:26,212 --> 00:07:32,461 {\an1}-Springer launched his talk show as a sort of Phil Donahue lite. 154 00:07:32,485 --> 00:07:35,831 -People often think about the origins of talk shows 155 00:07:35,855 --> 00:07:39,802 as sort of beginning with Phil Donahue. 156 00:07:39,826 --> 00:07:41,704 He really innovated this format. 157 00:07:41,728 --> 00:07:47,943 {\an1}He explored reproductive rights, child custody issues, equal pay. 158 00:07:47,967 --> 00:07:49,779 He had the silly moments on there, too, 159 00:07:49,803 --> 00:07:52,448 but he tended to mix the political, 160 00:07:52,472 --> 00:07:56,018 the personal, and entertainment together in a kind of package 161 00:07:56,042 --> 00:07:58,387 that was more socially conscious 162 00:07:58,411 --> 00:08:02,058 than you would sort of see coming up afterwards. 163 00:08:02,082 --> 00:08:03,459 -This audience wants in here. 164 00:08:03,483 --> 00:08:05,127 -Phil Donahue, on one occasion 165 00:08:05,151 --> 00:08:08,497 to try to contain an unruly audience member 166 00:08:08,521 --> 00:08:10,333 who started yelling out questions in the audience, 167 00:08:10,357 --> 00:08:12,635 Phil Donahue literally stepped across a light grid 168 00:08:12,659 --> 00:08:14,737 and put a microphone in the person's mouth. 169 00:08:14,761 --> 00:08:16,305 That's what started the audience 170 00:08:16,329 --> 00:08:19,909 getting an opportunity to speak back. 171 00:08:19,933 --> 00:08:22,078 -"Phil Donahue, Phil Donahue, Phil Donahue." 172 00:08:22,102 --> 00:08:24,647 That's all I ever heard. "Phil Donahue." 173 00:08:24,671 --> 00:08:27,883 And I was so tired of hearing Phil Donahue's name. 174 00:08:27,907 --> 00:08:30,486 To the people running "The Jerry Springer Show", 175 00:08:30,510 --> 00:08:32,088 he was a god to them. 176 00:08:32,112 --> 00:08:34,990 And Jerry didn't want to be the next Phil Donahue. 177 00:08:35,014 --> 00:08:37,693 I just thought, "My God, this isn't right. 178 00:08:37,717 --> 00:08:39,495 This is not the guy." 179 00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:42,832 The guy who I met upstairs on the sixth floor... 180 00:08:42,856 --> 00:08:44,533 He's a TV guy. 181 00:08:44,557 --> 00:08:46,102 People are going to like that guy. 182 00:08:46,126 --> 00:08:47,837 They're not gonna like this guy. 183 00:08:47,861 --> 00:08:52,108 -Jerry Springer was going to be a serious talk show host. 184 00:08:52,132 --> 00:08:54,677 One of the famous lines he said at that time was, 185 00:08:54,701 --> 00:08:58,514 "You won't see me dancing with the Chippendale dancers." 186 00:08:58,538 --> 00:09:01,684 Well, that turned out to be quite ironic, 187 00:09:01,708 --> 00:09:03,386 since that would have been mild 188 00:09:03,410 --> 00:09:06,622 {\an8}compared to what the show eventually evolved into. 189 00:09:06,646 --> 00:09:07,690 {\an8}[ Laughter ] 190 00:09:07,714 --> 00:09:09,592 {\an8}[ Audience cheering ] 191 00:09:09,616 --> 00:09:11,794 -If you go back and look at the original "Jerry Springer Show", 192 00:09:11,818 --> 00:09:13,396 the original "Jerry Springer Show" 193 00:09:13,420 --> 00:09:15,197 was as calm as Phil Donahue 194 00:09:15,221 --> 00:09:18,067 and even calmer than my show. 195 00:09:18,091 --> 00:09:20,803 -We have a nice surprise for you today, okay? 196 00:09:20,827 --> 00:09:22,872 You are going to meet your daughter, Sandy, 197 00:09:22,896 --> 00:09:26,375 who you have not seen in 35 years. Sandy? 198 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:29,912 [ Applause ] Sandy? 199 00:09:29,936 --> 00:09:33,416 -When I think back to that first season in Cincinnati, 200 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,653 in my opinion, it was just dreadful, boring, 201 00:09:37,677 --> 00:09:42,658 and he had a million and one cards in his hands, and... 202 00:09:42,682 --> 00:09:46,128 it wasn't working and it was obvious 203 00:09:46,152 --> 00:09:48,664 it wasn't going to work. 204 00:09:48,688 --> 00:09:50,299 -For its second season, 205 00:09:50,323 --> 00:09:54,603 Multimedia Entertainment and NBC-owned studios team up 206 00:09:54,627 --> 00:09:59,241 and relocate "The Springer Show" from Cincinnati to Chicago. 207 00:09:59,265 --> 00:10:01,644 The move does little to boost their ratings, 208 00:10:01,668 --> 00:10:03,112 but for Richard Dominick, 209 00:10:03,136 --> 00:10:06,139 it means a promotion to executive producer. 210 00:10:08,208 --> 00:10:11,987 -I was asked to take over the show, 211 00:10:12,011 --> 00:10:13,923 so I said, "Yeah, of course, absolutely." 212 00:10:13,947 --> 00:10:17,293 And they said, "We're going to cancel the show in November." 213 00:10:17,317 --> 00:10:21,030 And this was April. It was like, ay-yi-yi. 214 00:10:21,054 --> 00:10:22,598 So that's when we decided, "Hey, 215 00:10:22,622 --> 00:10:25,100 let's turn the tables on everybody 216 00:10:25,124 --> 00:10:29,505 and let's keep the show on the air." 217 00:10:29,529 --> 00:10:32,775 And if we could stick it to Multimedia 218 00:10:32,799 --> 00:10:34,944 and we can make this work 219 00:10:34,968 --> 00:10:37,780 and we can stay on the air past November, 220 00:10:37,804 --> 00:10:40,649 great. It'll be a battle won. 221 00:10:40,673 --> 00:10:42,284 -To turn those tables, 222 00:10:42,308 --> 00:10:44,820 "The Jerry Springer Show" will take its cue from one 223 00:10:44,844 --> 00:10:49,649 of the most brutal episodes of television ever aired. 224 00:10:54,487 --> 00:10:56,198 -In the '90s, "The Jerry Springer Show" 225 00:10:56,222 --> 00:11:00,736 will evolve into a spectacle of violence and human indignity. 226 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:05,164 But that inspiration actually starts with this guy. 227 00:11:07,534 --> 00:11:11,313 {\an8}-Let me tell you the story of Geraldo Rivera. 228 00:11:11,337 --> 00:11:16,352 In 1986, Geraldo Rivera's career had come to a standstill. 229 00:11:16,376 --> 00:11:19,755 He had been a high profile correspondent for ABC News 230 00:11:19,779 --> 00:11:21,557 when Tribune Entertainment 231 00:11:21,581 --> 00:11:23,859 approached him about doing a live special 232 00:11:23,883 --> 00:11:26,228 from the Lexington Hotel in Chicago 233 00:11:26,252 --> 00:11:30,933 to uncover whatever hidden treasures 234 00:11:30,957 --> 00:11:34,103 or secrets were in the vault in this hotel 235 00:11:34,127 --> 00:11:36,071 that was once controlled by Al Capone. 236 00:11:36,095 --> 00:11:37,740 [ Gunfire ] 237 00:11:37,764 --> 00:11:39,275 The hype was relentless. 238 00:11:39,299 --> 00:11:41,610 For weeks, people were talking about 239 00:11:41,634 --> 00:11:44,547 what's Geraldo going to find in Al Capone's vault, 240 00:11:44,571 --> 00:11:47,049 and at the final minutes of the special, 241 00:11:47,073 --> 00:11:49,351 {\an8}they break through the vault walls 242 00:11:49,375 --> 00:11:52,855 {\an8}and what they find is absolutely nothing. 243 00:11:52,879 --> 00:11:54,757 -All right. 244 00:11:54,781 --> 00:11:57,259 We'll be right back after these commercial messages. 245 00:11:57,283 --> 00:11:58,727 We'll see what we got here. 246 00:11:58,751 --> 00:12:03,732 -No bodies, no treasure, no guns, no nothing. 247 00:12:03,756 --> 00:12:06,969 And then the ratings came out the next morning, 248 00:12:06,993 --> 00:12:10,205 and it turned out to have been the highest rated syndicated 249 00:12:10,229 --> 00:12:12,999 special in history. 250 00:12:14,901 --> 00:12:16,312 For an encore, 251 00:12:16,336 --> 00:12:18,914 Tribune Entertainment hired Geraldo Rivera 252 00:12:18,938 --> 00:12:21,584 to host a talk show. 253 00:12:21,608 --> 00:12:24,219 -That Capone special proved that all sizzle 254 00:12:24,243 --> 00:12:28,724 and no steak could still deliver meaty ratings. 255 00:12:28,748 --> 00:12:30,292 But on his new talk show, 256 00:12:30,316 --> 00:12:32,328 Geraldo decides to see what happens 257 00:12:32,352 --> 00:12:36,565 when you serve up real controversy. 258 00:12:36,589 --> 00:12:40,903 -Fast forward to when the chair incident occurred. 259 00:12:40,927 --> 00:12:42,104 -Okay. [ Cheers and applause ] 260 00:12:42,128 --> 00:12:44,340 {\an8}-The show featured a panel of young 261 00:12:44,364 --> 00:12:46,809 {\an8}white supremacists youth, who are sort of pitted against 262 00:12:46,833 --> 00:12:48,911 a black activist, Roy Innis. 263 00:12:48,935 --> 00:12:52,681 Things got very heated and a fight erupted. 264 00:12:52,705 --> 00:12:54,450 A brawl erupted. 265 00:12:54,474 --> 00:13:00,255 -[ Audience shouting ] 266 00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:03,282 -This was a shocking moment. 267 00:13:06,152 --> 00:13:08,097 But the ratings went through the roof, 268 00:13:08,121 --> 00:13:09,598 and in a way, it sort of set 269 00:13:09,622 --> 00:13:12,835 the stage for... gave permission for other shows 270 00:13:12,859 --> 00:13:15,371 to kind of follow suit. 271 00:13:15,395 --> 00:13:17,139 -Geraldo got his nose broken, 272 00:13:17,163 --> 00:13:22,811 and that became the new standard of outrageous television... 273 00:13:22,835 --> 00:13:24,613 The conflicts, the fighting, 274 00:13:24,637 --> 00:13:31,453 the emotion that was allowed to be presented on daytime TV. 275 00:13:31,477 --> 00:13:35,324 -Many talk shows switched gears by infusing conflict and topics 276 00:13:35,348 --> 00:13:37,359 designed to shock. 277 00:13:37,383 --> 00:13:40,396 {\an8}-I defy any of the hosts back then to say 278 00:13:40,420 --> 00:13:43,165 {\an8}that they weren't approaching 279 00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:45,367 and trying to do the most salacious topics 280 00:13:45,391 --> 00:13:48,070 that they could possibly do. And that was all of us. 281 00:13:48,094 --> 00:13:50,639 A lot of people, you know, look back and don't remember, 282 00:13:50,663 --> 00:13:53,509 you know, Oprah was the one who put on, for the first time, 283 00:13:53,533 --> 00:13:55,377 she started showing strippers. 284 00:13:55,401 --> 00:13:57,846 She started showing you, you know, call girls. 285 00:13:57,870 --> 00:14:00,683 She started showing you a segment of society 286 00:14:00,707 --> 00:14:04,386 that no one had ever got a chance to see before. 287 00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:07,556 -As trashiness becomes the new standard, 288 00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:09,391 it becomes clear that Jerry Springer 289 00:14:09,415 --> 00:14:14,229 {\an8}needs to change his image if he hopes to stay on the air. 290 00:14:14,253 --> 00:14:15,698 {\an8}And his new executive producer 291 00:14:15,722 --> 00:14:20,669 {\an8}is the perfect person to provide the makeover. 292 00:14:20,693 --> 00:14:22,671 -We kind of knew we were getting canceled, 293 00:14:22,695 --> 00:14:25,674 so that's when we decided, "Let's go have some fun." 294 00:14:25,698 --> 00:14:29,545 So right away, boom, we changed everything. 295 00:14:29,569 --> 00:14:32,247 Now, we got a chance not to be Phil Donahue. 296 00:14:32,271 --> 00:14:34,850 We had a chance to be Jerry. 297 00:14:34,874 --> 00:14:37,586 In a second, the snap of the fingers, 298 00:14:37,610 --> 00:14:40,456 Jerry went out there and was himself. 299 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,858 Jerry never knew what they were going to say. 300 00:14:42,882 --> 00:14:47,062 Jerry went with the flow, and that's why Jerry was so good. 301 00:14:47,086 --> 00:14:48,897 And that's why the show worked. 302 00:14:48,921 --> 00:14:50,466 He got rid of everything, 303 00:14:50,490 --> 00:14:52,101 all that burden, 304 00:14:52,125 --> 00:14:55,304 those chains they had wrapped around him... gone. 305 00:14:55,328 --> 00:14:56,772 {\an8}-In 1994, 306 00:14:56,796 --> 00:14:59,108 {\an8}the new and improved "Jerry Springer Show" 307 00:14:59,132 --> 00:15:00,876 {\an8}hits the airwaves. 308 00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:04,713 {\an8}-He also told me that, you know, he was in love with you 309 00:15:04,737 --> 00:15:07,216 {\an8}and he's going to marry you. Bull[bleep], bitch. 310 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,551 {\an8}[ Audience cheers ] 311 00:15:09,575 --> 00:15:15,090 {\an1}So that was the beginning of it, of the nightmare of television. 312 00:15:15,114 --> 00:15:16,959 [ Laughs ] 313 00:15:16,983 --> 00:15:19,261 {\an8}And I happened to be brushing down at her tail end, 314 00:15:19,285 --> 00:15:22,097 {\an8}and she lifted her tail up and... 315 00:15:22,121 --> 00:15:27,069 {\an8}[ Audience laughs, groans ] 316 00:15:27,093 --> 00:15:29,471 {\an8}There it was in all its glory. 317 00:15:29,495 --> 00:15:31,740 {\an8}[ Audience groans ] 318 00:15:31,764 --> 00:15:35,477 {\an8}-In the beginning, we did some really marvelous... 319 00:15:35,501 --> 00:15:37,613 {\an8}"I Married a Horse". 320 00:15:37,637 --> 00:15:41,850 {\an8}It went out on the air, 9:00 in the morning 321 00:15:41,874 --> 00:15:43,652 {\an8}in New York City 322 00:15:43,676 --> 00:15:49,458 {\an8}and it got pulled immediately out of national syndication. 323 00:15:49,482 --> 00:15:54,129 {\an8}And we were almost fined and closed down for a while. 324 00:15:54,153 --> 00:15:55,664 {\an8}We did shows like that. 325 00:15:55,688 --> 00:16:00,269 {\an8}-There was virtually nothing of human depravity 326 00:16:00,293 --> 00:16:02,504 {\an8}that could be imagined 327 00:16:02,528 --> 00:16:06,608 {\an8}that wasn't considered appropriate for that show. 328 00:16:06,632 --> 00:16:08,710 {\an8}-I thought the most outrageous thing I could do 329 00:16:08,734 --> 00:16:12,047 {\an8}in this lifetime was to have sex with 300 men. 330 00:16:12,071 --> 00:16:13,382 {\an8}So I did it. [ Chuckles ] 331 00:16:13,406 --> 00:16:15,117 {\an8}-The Springer Show quickly catches up 332 00:16:15,141 --> 00:16:16,652 {\an8}to the tabloid-y content 333 00:16:16,676 --> 00:16:19,221 {\an8}that the other shows are experimenting with. 334 00:16:19,245 --> 00:16:20,355 {\an8}-I'm really a man. 335 00:16:20,379 --> 00:16:23,292 {\an8}[ Audience cheers ] 336 00:16:23,316 --> 00:16:26,328 -A man who cut off his own male organ. 337 00:16:26,352 --> 00:16:27,696 -But the outrageous topics 338 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,966 stop others dead in their tracks. 339 00:16:30,990 --> 00:16:32,301 -I remember one particular show 340 00:16:32,325 --> 00:16:34,002 that the producer asked me to do, 341 00:16:34,026 --> 00:16:36,238 and I was told over and over again, "Look, you know, 342 00:16:36,262 --> 00:16:38,006 Sally just did it last week. 343 00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:40,008 Phil just did it last week. Oprah just did a piece about it. 344 00:16:40,032 --> 00:16:41,810 You need to do this." And I was like, 345 00:16:41,834 --> 00:16:43,712 "I can't stand this topic," and I'll tell you what it was. 346 00:16:43,736 --> 00:16:46,481 The topic was something called infantilism, 347 00:16:46,505 --> 00:16:48,717 where these people used to dress up as babies, 348 00:16:48,741 --> 00:16:50,652 and Sally Jessy Raphael had did a show 349 00:16:50,676 --> 00:16:53,021 where she literally put people in baby pens 350 00:16:53,045 --> 00:16:56,091 and put people in diapers literally on her set. 351 00:16:56,115 --> 00:16:57,693 And I left fingernail marks 352 00:16:57,717 --> 00:16:59,828 down the hallway going into the studio 353 00:16:59,852 --> 00:17:03,665 because I just didn't feel right about doing this topic. 354 00:17:03,689 --> 00:17:07,035 And I was like, you know, "I'm not doing that. Period. 355 00:17:07,059 --> 00:17:08,871 They can come out and talk to me, 356 00:17:08,895 --> 00:17:10,939 {\an8}but I'm not going to have them dress up like little babies." 357 00:17:10,963 --> 00:17:14,843 {\an8}-While the theatrics repel some talk show hosts, 358 00:17:14,867 --> 00:17:18,213 {\an8}Jerry Springer embraces it completely. 359 00:17:18,237 --> 00:17:24,086 {\an8}-We did the Siamese twins connected to the head 360 00:17:24,110 --> 00:17:25,721 {\an8}and one of them's on the gurney, 361 00:17:25,745 --> 00:17:31,393 {\an8}and it had to be more than just talking to them. 362 00:17:31,417 --> 00:17:34,196 {\an8}So one of them liked country music. 363 00:17:34,220 --> 00:17:39,201 {\an8}"Really? Okay. How would you like to perform?" 364 00:17:39,225 --> 00:17:41,370 {\an8}-♪ Walking away ♪ 365 00:17:41,394 --> 00:17:44,873 {\an8}♪ I saw a side of you ♪ 366 00:17:44,897 --> 00:17:49,745 {\an8}♪ That I knew was there all along ♪ 367 00:17:49,769 --> 00:17:51,613 {\an8}♪ And that some day... ♪ 368 00:17:51,637 --> 00:17:54,416 {\an8}-And you had this marvelous piece of television. 369 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,618 {\an8}-You can draw a line 370 00:17:56,642 --> 00:17:58,220 {\an8}from the freak shows, 371 00:17:58,244 --> 00:18:01,223 {\an8}touring vaudeville freak shows of the 1930s 372 00:18:01,247 --> 00:18:02,491 to "The Jerry Springer Show". 373 00:18:02,515 --> 00:18:04,459 There is a direct line there. 374 00:18:04,483 --> 00:18:07,496 They serve the same cultural purpose, 375 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,098 which is for the average person to tune in, 376 00:18:10,122 --> 00:18:13,669 look at these people and go, "Well, my life's not so bad." 377 00:18:13,693 --> 00:18:15,237 [ Laughs ] 378 00:18:15,261 --> 00:18:18,974 -It was Richard Dominick who brought 379 00:18:18,998 --> 00:18:22,945 {\an8}not only a new energy to the show, but 380 00:18:22,969 --> 00:18:28,951 {\an8}a complete lack of morality, a complete lack of any concern 381 00:18:28,975 --> 00:18:33,422 {\an8}for whether the guests on the show were being exploited 382 00:18:33,446 --> 00:18:35,924 {\an8}or whether the product being put out 383 00:18:35,948 --> 00:18:40,028 {\an8}was even decent for consumption by audiences. 384 00:18:40,052 --> 00:18:42,364 {\an8}-It never gets acknowledged that people 385 00:18:42,388 --> 00:18:44,032 {\an8}who have never been on TV before, 386 00:18:44,056 --> 00:18:46,969 {\an8}who were never considered important enough to be on TV, 387 00:18:46,993 --> 00:18:51,306 {\an8}had their moment, had their chance to tell their story. 388 00:18:51,330 --> 00:18:53,642 {\an8}-Does your mom know what you do? 389 00:18:53,666 --> 00:18:56,044 {\an8}-And then all of a sudden, the numbers were going up, 390 00:18:56,068 --> 00:18:57,846 and suddenly, they realized, 391 00:18:57,870 --> 00:18:59,448 "Hey, maybe we got something here." 392 00:18:59,472 --> 00:19:02,551 The two big syndicators that carried us, 393 00:19:02,575 --> 00:19:05,320 they were excited that their numbers were going up. 394 00:19:05,344 --> 00:19:07,155 They didn't care what we were putting on the air. 395 00:19:07,179 --> 00:19:10,025 {\an1}They're selling advertising and making money and they want more. 396 00:19:10,049 --> 00:19:12,961 -The only metric that mattered to Richard Dominick 397 00:19:12,985 --> 00:19:14,563 was the ratings. 398 00:19:14,587 --> 00:19:19,501 He was willing to do anything he could to succeed. 399 00:19:19,525 --> 00:19:21,003 {\an8}-He doesn't love you! 400 00:19:21,027 --> 00:19:23,038 {\an8}-By its fourth season, "The Jerry Springer Show" 401 00:19:23,062 --> 00:19:25,507 {\an8}makes a profound switch. 402 00:19:25,531 --> 00:19:27,542 {\an8}No longer content with what critics 403 00:19:27,566 --> 00:19:30,712 {\an8}call "freak show voyeurism", 404 00:19:30,736 --> 00:19:34,750 {\an8}physical fights begin to dominate every episode. 405 00:19:34,774 --> 00:19:37,319 {\an8}[ Audience cheering ] 406 00:19:37,343 --> 00:19:41,056 {\an8}-The fists would start flying, the chairs would start falling 407 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,025 before you even knew what was going on. 408 00:19:43,049 --> 00:19:46,695 -Oh, my God. They got Klans guys picking up chairs 409 00:19:46,719 --> 00:19:48,163 and throwing them into the audience. 410 00:19:48,187 --> 00:19:51,066 And oh, that lady got up and pulled the wig off 411 00:19:51,090 --> 00:19:53,068 the other lady and started beating her with the wig. 412 00:19:53,092 --> 00:19:55,670 And you never saw anything like that before. 413 00:19:55,694 --> 00:19:59,107 -If anyone should be credited with what happened, 414 00:19:59,131 --> 00:20:01,209 it is Richard Dominick. 415 00:20:01,233 --> 00:20:04,346 Jerry Springer was just along for the ride. 416 00:20:04,370 --> 00:20:08,250 Richard Dominick is the guy who drove the car off the cliff. 417 00:20:08,274 --> 00:20:11,410 {\an8}[ Audience cheering ] 418 00:20:15,748 --> 00:20:17,426 {\an8}-O.J. Simpson is sitting in the back seat 419 00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:19,628 {\an8}and he has a gun at his head. 420 00:20:19,652 --> 00:20:22,297 {\an8}-If there's one image that defines the shift 421 00:20:22,321 --> 00:20:26,268 {\an8}in media during the 1990s, it's this, 422 00:20:26,292 --> 00:20:30,906 {\an8}the slowest high speed chase ever captured on video 423 00:20:30,930 --> 00:20:35,410 {\an8}as O.J. Simpson flees police in a borrowed white Ford Bronco. 424 00:20:35,434 --> 00:20:36,745 {\an8}The manhunt and the trial 425 00:20:36,769 --> 00:20:39,714 that follow become a media spectacle. 426 00:20:39,738 --> 00:20:41,316 -The jury deserves to get the truth. 427 00:20:41,340 --> 00:20:44,219 -And break records by pulling in a television audience 428 00:20:44,243 --> 00:20:47,422 of over 150 million viewers. 429 00:20:47,446 --> 00:20:48,924 {\an8}-Not only was it a media circus, 430 00:20:48,948 --> 00:20:52,327 {\an8}it was like this tourist attraction for a while. 431 00:20:52,351 --> 00:20:55,097 It was really bizarre with all of the courtroom drama 432 00:20:55,121 --> 00:20:58,733 and the characters that emerged from the courtroom drama. 433 00:20:58,757 --> 00:21:01,269 -If it doesn't fit, you must acquit. 434 00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:06,141 {\an8}-The O.J. Simpson trial allowed TV news to go 435 00:21:06,165 --> 00:21:08,076 {\an8}where it hadn't gone before. 436 00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:09,478 -Hugh Grant and Elizabeth Hurley, 437 00:21:09,502 --> 00:21:11,012 the perfect show business couple. 438 00:21:11,036 --> 00:21:12,948 But in the early hours of this morning, 439 00:21:12,972 --> 00:21:16,284 Hugh Grant was seen by officers picking up unknown prostitutes. 440 00:21:16,308 --> 00:21:22,591 -Celebrity lives and personal lives and sexual proclivities. 441 00:21:22,615 --> 00:21:25,026 It became much more salacious. 442 00:21:25,050 --> 00:21:29,764 -I did not have sexual relations with that woman, 443 00:21:29,788 --> 00:21:31,199 Miss Lewinsky. 444 00:21:31,223 --> 00:21:33,368 -They didn't use the term "reality television" 445 00:21:33,392 --> 00:21:36,271 at that point, but that is kind of what it was sort of like, 446 00:21:36,295 --> 00:21:40,275 this ongoing observational reality drama. 447 00:21:40,299 --> 00:21:43,178 -It's time to make sense of America's healthcare system. 448 00:21:43,202 --> 00:21:45,881 -In those years, Jerry Springer said, 449 00:21:45,905 --> 00:21:49,050 "Why is it okay for the local news to do that 450 00:21:49,074 --> 00:21:51,853 when all I'm doing is I'm bringing people on, 451 00:21:51,877 --> 00:21:54,122 {\an8}they're talking about the same thing?" 452 00:21:54,146 --> 00:21:56,491 {\an8}-Who's got the man living with her? Me or her? 453 00:21:56,515 --> 00:21:57,959 {\an8}-[Bleep] 454 00:21:57,983 --> 00:21:59,561 {\an8}-What are you doing? No. Don't take your boot off. 455 00:21:59,585 --> 00:22:00,962 {\an8}-Huh? 456 00:22:00,986 --> 00:22:02,164 {\an8}[ Audience cheering ] 457 00:22:02,188 --> 00:22:03,865 {\an8}-But "The Springer Show's" penchant 458 00:22:03,889 --> 00:22:07,202 {\an8}for turning personal issues into high stakes drama 459 00:22:07,226 --> 00:22:10,839 {\an8}soon takes a hard left turn to violence. 460 00:22:10,863 --> 00:22:13,475 -Working behind the scenes, first as an intern 461 00:22:13,499 --> 00:22:15,076 and then as a production assistant, 462 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:20,081 of course, I saw plenty of fights on stage. 463 00:22:20,105 --> 00:22:24,152 I mean, it was, at that point, almost expected. 464 00:22:24,176 --> 00:22:29,157 The bouncers who were at every show always had something to do. 465 00:22:29,181 --> 00:22:31,493 {\an8}-You get people up there and they're telling their story 466 00:22:31,517 --> 00:22:33,995 {\an8}and somebody says something, they get mad, they get up, 467 00:22:34,019 --> 00:22:35,730 {\an8}and they whack them. 468 00:22:35,754 --> 00:22:38,333 {\an8}Women did that a lot. 469 00:22:38,357 --> 00:22:39,734 {\an8}-You need to stay out of her life, 470 00:22:39,758 --> 00:22:41,369 {\an8}and you need to find your own man. 471 00:22:41,393 --> 00:22:43,104 {\an8}[ Cheers and applause ] 472 00:22:43,128 --> 00:22:47,576 {\an8}-When two women got up and were angry, 473 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,778 they literally tore the place apart. 474 00:22:49,802 --> 00:22:51,246 -[ Audience chanting "Jerry!" ] 475 00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:52,881 -And that happened almost immediately 476 00:22:52,905 --> 00:22:55,850 because when we started to deal with real people, 477 00:22:55,874 --> 00:22:58,186 with real subjects, the real things that happened 478 00:22:58,210 --> 00:23:01,723 in their life, you got to expect real emotion. 479 00:23:01,747 --> 00:23:05,260 -It was about putting violence on television. 480 00:23:05,284 --> 00:23:07,362 It was about the unexpected, 481 00:23:07,386 --> 00:23:09,030 and it was about drawing a crowd. 482 00:23:09,054 --> 00:23:11,800 Who doesn't stop to look at a car wreck? 483 00:23:11,824 --> 00:23:14,402 -You rub two sticks together and you get fire. 484 00:23:14,426 --> 00:23:16,104 So it's quite orchestrated. 485 00:23:16,128 --> 00:23:20,075 But then what's always the spontaneous, 486 00:23:20,099 --> 00:23:21,743 sort of "authentic" part of it 487 00:23:21,767 --> 00:23:26,615 is exactly how people react and how far do they go? 488 00:23:26,639 --> 00:23:28,583 -None of the violence can take place 489 00:23:28,607 --> 00:23:30,919 without producers handpicking guests 490 00:23:30,943 --> 00:23:35,724 who are willing to unleash their rage on national television. 491 00:23:35,748 --> 00:23:38,226 -It's always, "Oh, they put on trash people." 492 00:23:38,250 --> 00:23:40,462 They weren't trash people. They were good people. 493 00:23:40,486 --> 00:23:46,568 "Oh, they put on sluts and this and dope addicts." 494 00:23:46,592 --> 00:23:48,303 Stop it already. We didn't... 495 00:23:48,327 --> 00:23:52,574 These are good, solid people who came on the show 496 00:23:52,598 --> 00:23:55,343 and probably had more guts than half of the people 497 00:23:55,367 --> 00:23:57,912 out there who criticized them at the time. 498 00:23:57,936 --> 00:24:00,248 -[ Audience booing ] 499 00:24:00,272 --> 00:24:04,786 {\an8}-Sometimes, you would get people who genuinely thought 500 00:24:04,810 --> 00:24:07,322 {\an8}that they didn't have any other option 501 00:24:07,346 --> 00:24:10,091 {\an8}except for trying to resolve it this way. 502 00:24:10,115 --> 00:24:14,529 Some people were honestly just messy, 503 00:24:14,553 --> 00:24:16,998 messy people who loved drama 504 00:24:17,022 --> 00:24:21,303 and wanted a free trip and wanted attention. 505 00:24:21,327 --> 00:24:25,273 -They would fly in people from all over the country. 506 00:24:25,297 --> 00:24:27,108 They would put them up in hotels, 507 00:24:27,132 --> 00:24:29,444 give them a room service allowance. 508 00:24:29,468 --> 00:24:32,547 They would drive them by limo to the studio. 509 00:24:32,571 --> 00:24:37,319 And this could be the biggest day of their lives. 510 00:24:37,343 --> 00:24:40,322 -When all the guests arrived in Chicago, 511 00:24:40,346 --> 00:24:42,123 you kind of get them settled in their rooms 512 00:24:42,147 --> 00:24:43,458 and then you take them out to dinner. 513 00:24:43,482 --> 00:24:46,628 [ Glasses clink ] 514 00:24:46,652 --> 00:24:48,063 I was on the family drama team, 515 00:24:48,087 --> 00:24:50,365 and a big part of hanging out with the guests 516 00:24:50,389 --> 00:24:55,970 was you were kind of making sure that they didn't get too drunk 517 00:24:55,994 --> 00:24:58,973 to show up to the show the next day. 518 00:24:58,997 --> 00:25:02,043 They must have had a problem with that in the past, 519 00:25:02,067 --> 00:25:05,013 because I remember being explicitly told 520 00:25:05,037 --> 00:25:07,315 to make sure they don't get too drunk. 521 00:25:07,339 --> 00:25:09,684 And then the next day, they would come into the office 522 00:25:09,708 --> 00:25:11,419 and meet the producer. 523 00:25:11,443 --> 00:25:15,990 And the producer is the one who would get them all riled up, 524 00:25:16,014 --> 00:25:18,026 tell them, "You need to confront her, 525 00:25:18,050 --> 00:25:20,362 you need to clear the air, 526 00:25:20,386 --> 00:25:22,330 you need to tell everybody the truth," 527 00:25:22,354 --> 00:25:24,165 and all this kind of stuff, and the producer's 528 00:25:24,189 --> 00:25:26,601 the one that would get them all ready to come out on stage. 529 00:25:26,625 --> 00:25:30,004 -[ Audience cheering ] 530 00:25:30,028 --> 00:25:32,207 -Everything that producers do from the moment 531 00:25:32,231 --> 00:25:34,342 they put the feelers out to find guests, 532 00:25:34,366 --> 00:25:36,711 finding other people to go on the show with them, 533 00:25:36,735 --> 00:25:41,082 everything is really geared toward getting the money shot. 534 00:25:41,106 --> 00:25:45,186 And by that, I mean this sort of expression of raw emotion 535 00:25:45,210 --> 00:25:46,721 on the part of the guests. 536 00:25:46,745 --> 00:25:50,291 {\an8}-Tell me we will still try to be friends, please. 537 00:25:50,315 --> 00:25:52,560 {\an8}-This could be dissolving into tears. 538 00:25:52,584 --> 00:25:55,530 {\an8}-This could be erupting in rage and disbelief 539 00:25:55,554 --> 00:25:57,866 when you find out your boyfriend of seven years 540 00:25:57,890 --> 00:26:00,935 has been sleeping with your best friend. 541 00:26:00,959 --> 00:26:03,037 And that's what producers want to see. 542 00:26:03,061 --> 00:26:06,241 That is the goal, right, of ordinary people 543 00:26:06,265 --> 00:26:10,545 performing on television during this era. 544 00:26:10,569 --> 00:26:16,284 The money shot is that moment when a guest loses their cool. 545 00:26:16,308 --> 00:26:17,786 {\an8}-[ Audience cheering ] 546 00:26:17,810 --> 00:26:20,722 {\an8}-Yeah, I got your hair, bitch! I got your hair! 547 00:26:20,746 --> 00:26:22,390 {\an8}That's right, bitch! That's right! 548 00:26:22,414 --> 00:26:23,792 -One of my most memorable days 549 00:26:23,816 --> 00:26:26,161 on "Jerry Springer" is my producer 550 00:26:26,185 --> 00:26:31,132 hands me a list of groceries and some cab fare and says, 551 00:26:31,156 --> 00:26:33,435 "Go buy everything on this list at the store." 552 00:26:33,459 --> 00:26:36,171 And it was all Thanksgiving foods. 553 00:26:36,195 --> 00:26:38,406 This was an episode where we had a family 554 00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:40,408 that was having some kind of drama. 555 00:26:40,432 --> 00:26:42,577 They sat all the members of this family down at a big, 556 00:26:42,601 --> 00:26:44,179 long table 557 00:26:44,203 --> 00:26:47,282 with all this soft throwable food in front of them. 558 00:26:47,306 --> 00:26:49,317 And it was a food fight. 559 00:26:49,341 --> 00:26:51,286 {\an8}-You know what? I'm not losing weight for you! 560 00:26:51,310 --> 00:26:59,194 {\an8}-[ Cheers and applause ] 561 00:26:59,218 --> 00:27:01,963 {\an8}-I remember one of the women in the family 562 00:27:01,987 --> 00:27:03,364 {\an8}was just really upset. 563 00:27:03,388 --> 00:27:05,133 {\an8}She was really upset with how this was going. 564 00:27:05,157 --> 00:27:07,936 {\an8}It was kind of dawning on her what was really happening. 565 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,337 {\an8}And during the commercial breaks, 566 00:27:09,361 --> 00:27:11,105 {\an8}I remember standing there asking her 567 00:27:11,129 --> 00:27:12,974 to please not touch her face 568 00:27:12,998 --> 00:27:16,010 and please don't wipe the food off of her face for continuity. 569 00:27:16,034 --> 00:27:18,713 And she's like very emotionally upset. 570 00:27:18,737 --> 00:27:22,484 She's realizing what's happening. She's humiliated. 571 00:27:22,508 --> 00:27:26,988 And I couldn't even offer her any kind of sympathy 572 00:27:27,012 --> 00:27:28,389 or comfort in that moment, 573 00:27:28,413 --> 00:27:30,325 because my main job at that moment 574 00:27:30,349 --> 00:27:34,295 was to make sure that she looked as ridiculous as possible 575 00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:38,233 when the commercial break was over. 576 00:27:38,257 --> 00:27:44,339 That was the moment I felt the absolute worst to be there. 577 00:27:44,363 --> 00:27:46,307 -One of my jobs was to help make sure 578 00:27:46,331 --> 00:27:48,209 that the guests left the stage 579 00:27:48,233 --> 00:27:51,646 and went to the green room and got their things together, 580 00:27:51,670 --> 00:27:53,481 and there's a saying in the industry, 581 00:27:53,505 --> 00:27:56,484 "Bring them in by limo, send them home by cab," 582 00:27:56,508 --> 00:27:57,852 because now that they've delivered 583 00:27:57,876 --> 00:27:59,320 what you need them to do, 584 00:27:59,344 --> 00:28:02,557 they, you know... Let's get them out the door. 585 00:28:02,581 --> 00:28:04,526 -With "The Springer Show" grabbing headlines 586 00:28:04,550 --> 00:28:08,162 by getting humiliating money shots out of its guests, 587 00:28:08,186 --> 00:28:10,265 other shows scramble to keep up. 588 00:28:10,289 --> 00:28:13,034 -Your son. [ Cheers and applause ] 589 00:28:13,058 --> 00:28:15,370 "The Jenny Jones Show" succeeds 590 00:28:15,394 --> 00:28:17,572 when one guest makes front page news 591 00:28:17,596 --> 00:28:19,073 when he murders another guest. 592 00:28:19,097 --> 00:28:20,708 -We're good friends. 593 00:28:20,732 --> 00:28:23,077 -Well, guess what? It's Scott that has a crush on you. 594 00:28:23,101 --> 00:28:24,212 -You lied to me. 595 00:28:24,236 --> 00:28:26,104 [ Cheers and applause ] 596 00:28:30,275 --> 00:28:31,519 -In the '90s, personal conflict 597 00:28:31,543 --> 00:28:34,122 becomes a staple of daytime talk, 598 00:28:34,146 --> 00:28:37,258 and no one hits below the belt like Springer. 599 00:28:37,282 --> 00:28:39,527 That is, until Jenny Jones pushes 600 00:28:39,551 --> 00:28:42,764 one of her guests too far. 601 00:28:42,788 --> 00:28:45,300 {\an8}-Now, which of these ways would you choose to reveal 602 00:28:45,324 --> 00:28:47,569 {\an8}your secret crush on someone? 603 00:28:47,593 --> 00:28:50,438 {\an8}A... would you write that person a letter? 604 00:28:50,462 --> 00:28:52,040 {\an8}B... would you tell the person in private 605 00:28:52,064 --> 00:28:53,741 {\an8}in case he rejects you? 606 00:28:53,765 --> 00:28:56,144 {\an8}Or C... would you tell that person that you're gay 607 00:28:56,168 --> 00:28:58,079 {\an8}and you hope he is on national television 608 00:28:58,103 --> 00:28:59,547 {\an8}in front of millions? 609 00:28:59,571 --> 00:29:02,650 {\an8}[ Cheers and applause ] 610 00:29:02,674 --> 00:29:04,419 {\an8}-There was a man who was asked to come on 611 00:29:04,443 --> 00:29:06,120 {\an8}"The Jenny Jones Show" 612 00:29:06,144 --> 00:29:08,556 {\an8}and someone was going to reveal a secret crush to him, 613 00:29:08,580 --> 00:29:11,492 {\an8}and then it turned out to be another man who we already knew. 614 00:29:11,516 --> 00:29:14,329 And this had kind of been going on off camera 615 00:29:14,353 --> 00:29:17,265 already, where the one guy was kind of aggressively 616 00:29:17,289 --> 00:29:19,601 pursuing the other guy and he wasn't interested. 617 00:29:19,625 --> 00:29:21,970 And then it elevated to a new level 618 00:29:21,994 --> 00:29:24,572 when it was on national television. 619 00:29:24,596 --> 00:29:27,809 -Did you have any idea that he liked you this much? 620 00:29:27,833 --> 00:29:29,911 -No, no, no. I did not. 621 00:29:29,935 --> 00:29:31,579 -Can you tell us what your status is? 622 00:29:31,603 --> 00:29:33,615 I mean, are you involved with anybody or... 623 00:29:33,639 --> 00:29:37,085 {\an8}-No, but I am definitely heterosexual, 624 00:29:37,109 --> 00:29:39,821 {\an8}I guess you could say. 625 00:29:39,845 --> 00:29:41,623 -Three days later, 626 00:29:41,647 --> 00:29:46,194 the person who was the object of that crush murdered the guest. 627 00:29:46,218 --> 00:29:49,430 -He goes home and he sees a note written by Scott, 628 00:29:49,454 --> 00:29:52,433 that, "If you really want to get it off, 629 00:29:52,457 --> 00:29:54,969 I'm the only one who has the right tool." 630 00:29:54,993 --> 00:29:58,206 {\an8}-The show didn't actually even air. It was a taping. 631 00:29:58,230 --> 00:30:01,309 {\an8}And it was a couple of days after the taping 632 00:30:01,333 --> 00:30:05,046 that Jonathan Schmitz killed Scott Amedure. 633 00:30:05,070 --> 00:30:06,481 - his brother's death. 634 00:30:06,505 --> 00:30:08,650 -But because they're both men and Schmitz 635 00:30:08,674 --> 00:30:12,020 did not identify as gay, 636 00:30:12,044 --> 00:30:15,013 he felt humiliated by the admission. 637 00:30:16,982 --> 00:30:18,459 There was a lot of debate about, 638 00:30:18,483 --> 00:30:21,462 well, was Jenny Jones really responsible? 639 00:30:21,486 --> 00:30:23,297 -Jenny Jones is called to testify 640 00:30:23,321 --> 00:30:25,833 and is questioned about her demeanor on the show 641 00:30:25,857 --> 00:30:29,470 and how she seemed to relish in Jonathan's discomfort. 642 00:30:29,494 --> 00:30:31,739 -Did you ever think that if you didn't go for that 643 00:30:31,763 --> 00:30:34,809 extra little set up to pull that last bit of emotion out, 644 00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:36,644 that maybe this terrible tragedy, 645 00:30:36,668 --> 00:30:38,646 this terrible tragedy which brings us together 646 00:30:38,670 --> 00:30:40,415 today wouldn't have occurred? 647 00:30:40,439 --> 00:30:42,984 -I don't know what you're talking about. 648 00:30:43,008 --> 00:30:46,154 On the stand, she had very little to say. 649 00:30:46,178 --> 00:30:47,989 -The whole industry, in some ways, 650 00:30:48,013 --> 00:30:51,693 I think had a certain liability. 651 00:30:51,717 --> 00:30:55,029 {\an8}-I think it was the idea that it could have happened 652 00:30:55,053 --> 00:30:56,764 {\an8}on any of these shows 653 00:30:56,788 --> 00:31:00,792 and it happened to be "The Jenny Jones Show" that it was. 654 00:31:02,861 --> 00:31:04,505 There was a reexamination 655 00:31:04,529 --> 00:31:07,675 of what was going on with the foreman. 656 00:31:07,699 --> 00:31:11,579 Are these ambushes right? Is it moral? Is it proper? 657 00:31:11,603 --> 00:31:15,083 Are they encouraging violence? Have they gone too far? 658 00:31:15,107 --> 00:31:19,353 -Now it literally became a matter of life and death. 659 00:31:19,377 --> 00:31:22,790 -It was at that point that Oprah really kind of said, 660 00:31:22,814 --> 00:31:26,394 "I'm doing a different kind of show now." 661 00:31:26,418 --> 00:31:28,563 And not coincidentally, 662 00:31:28,587 --> 00:31:32,567 she became much more focused on celebrity guests. 663 00:31:32,591 --> 00:31:35,636 -The murder doesn't just make Oprah clean up her act. 664 00:31:35,660 --> 00:31:38,773 Montel, Jenny Jones, even Geraldo 665 00:31:38,797 --> 00:31:41,409 decided to change directions. 666 00:31:41,433 --> 00:31:46,280 {\an8}-You had everybody running like chickens without a head. 667 00:31:46,304 --> 00:31:51,385 The one that really gets me is Geraldo. 668 00:31:51,409 --> 00:31:56,257 The biggest... 669 00:31:56,281 --> 00:31:58,459 Here he's got a show called "Geraldo", 670 00:31:58,483 --> 00:32:00,728 {\an8}and he's trying to do what we're doing 671 00:32:00,752 --> 00:32:02,630 {\an8}and he thinks he's cool 672 00:32:02,654 --> 00:32:04,298 when he's being who he is. 673 00:32:04,322 --> 00:32:05,800 And then all of a sudden, that happens. 674 00:32:05,824 --> 00:32:07,101 Jenny Jones... boom. 675 00:32:07,125 --> 00:32:09,437 And all of a sudden, the next day, 676 00:32:09,461 --> 00:32:11,939 it's "The Geraldo Rivera Show", 677 00:32:11,963 --> 00:32:13,407 and now he's wearing his glasses 678 00:32:13,431 --> 00:32:16,110 because he's going to do an intelligent show, 679 00:32:16,134 --> 00:32:18,246 and he looked like a moron. 680 00:32:18,270 --> 00:32:20,982 Okay, Geraldo, if you happen to see this, 681 00:32:21,006 --> 00:32:22,750 you looked like a moron 682 00:32:22,774 --> 00:32:24,852 because you're a hypocrite, 683 00:32:24,876 --> 00:32:27,421 and all of a sudden, you ran scared. 684 00:32:27,445 --> 00:32:30,591 -Richard Dominick looked at the same set of facts 685 00:32:30,615 --> 00:32:33,461 and he went in the opposite direction. 686 00:32:33,485 --> 00:32:35,930 He decided, "If all of these other talk shows 687 00:32:35,954 --> 00:32:38,966 are going to pull back from the outrageousness, 688 00:32:38,990 --> 00:32:40,768 we're going to move forward." 689 00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:42,603 {\an8}-Let's hear what Anna has to say about this. 690 00:32:42,627 --> 00:32:44,438 {\an8}The other woman. Here's Anna. 691 00:32:44,462 --> 00:32:46,474 {\an8}[ Cheers and applause ] 692 00:32:46,498 --> 00:32:48,109 {\an8}-[Bleep] 693 00:32:48,133 --> 00:32:51,512 {\an8}-Jerry Springer continued on doing what he does best, 694 00:32:51,536 --> 00:32:56,551 which is to provide a cultural cartoon 695 00:32:56,575 --> 00:32:58,219 for the entertainment of viewers. 696 00:32:58,243 --> 00:33:01,823 -When the Jenny Jones murder happened, 697 00:33:01,847 --> 00:33:06,961 it rocked television. 698 00:33:06,985 --> 00:33:09,864 Honestly, did not rock us at all. 699 00:33:09,888 --> 00:33:13,835 -In fact, "The Springer Show's" ratings soar 700 00:33:13,859 --> 00:33:15,803 and they claim the number two spot 701 00:33:15,827 --> 00:33:19,564 in daytime television, right behind Oprah. 702 00:33:21,666 --> 00:33:24,712 But not everyone is impressed by Jerry's success, 703 00:33:24,736 --> 00:33:27,515 and soon, the media start pinning the Jenny Jones murder 704 00:33:27,539 --> 00:33:31,886 on both Springer and Richard Dominick. 705 00:33:31,910 --> 00:33:36,858 -People turned on our show as if we did it. 706 00:33:36,882 --> 00:33:39,760 Before, Jenny Jones was baking muffins. 707 00:33:39,784 --> 00:33:42,230 Now she was trying to imitate us, 708 00:33:42,254 --> 00:33:43,998 and then we got the blame for it. 709 00:33:44,022 --> 00:33:48,836 We never brought somebody on and surprised them. 710 00:33:48,860 --> 00:33:50,171 We didn't. 711 00:33:50,195 --> 00:33:52,273 We said, "This is going to happen 712 00:33:52,297 --> 00:33:56,577 or this is going to happen, and you got to be okay with it." 713 00:33:56,601 --> 00:34:00,548 And if they even for a moment had to think about it, 714 00:34:00,572 --> 00:34:02,450 I wouldn't put them on. 715 00:34:02,474 --> 00:34:04,852 We're not going to allow that to happen. 716 00:34:04,876 --> 00:34:07,288 -Blaming Springer for the Jenny Jones murder 717 00:34:07,312 --> 00:34:10,758 does little to change their content. 718 00:34:10,782 --> 00:34:14,862 [ Gunfire ] 719 00:34:14,886 --> 00:34:19,033 But when two teenagers shoot up their high school in Colorado, 720 00:34:19,057 --> 00:34:21,102 people question whether they might have learned 721 00:34:21,126 --> 00:34:22,737 such violence. 722 00:34:22,761 --> 00:34:26,374 The answer that many come up with is daytime talk. 723 00:34:26,398 --> 00:34:29,744 And it's raining king, Jerry Springer. 724 00:34:29,768 --> 00:34:32,480 -There was a point where "The Jerry Springer Show" 725 00:34:32,504 --> 00:34:36,274 became the villain. 726 00:34:40,946 --> 00:34:42,456 -It's double action. It's still loaded. 727 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:43,724 -By the late '90s, mass shootings 728 00:34:43,748 --> 00:34:44,559 involving teenagers are on the rise. 729 00:34:44,583 --> 00:34:45,726 [ Gunshot ] 730 00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:47,161 -Got some beef with me? 731 00:34:47,185 --> 00:34:50,131 [ Gunshots ] 732 00:34:50,155 --> 00:34:55,102 -Between 1996 and 1999, eight separate middle school 733 00:34:55,126 --> 00:34:58,472 shootings rocked the nation, 734 00:34:58,496 --> 00:35:02,009 {\an8}culminating in the mass murder at Columbine. 735 00:35:02,033 --> 00:35:04,178 {\an8}-Shot being fired. There's police officers 736 00:35:04,202 --> 00:35:06,981 standing at the door, and it looks like... 737 00:35:07,005 --> 00:35:09,317 -Rather than blaming lack of gun control, 738 00:35:09,341 --> 00:35:11,852 both media pundits and religious officials 739 00:35:11,876 --> 00:35:15,380 turned their attention towards Jerry Springer. 740 00:35:17,115 --> 00:35:20,861 {\an8}-Things started to turn more dark in the United States 741 00:35:20,885 --> 00:35:25,299 {\an8}when mass shootings in schools, Columbine, 742 00:35:25,323 --> 00:35:30,838 I think we all had to reassess where America was headed 743 00:35:30,862 --> 00:35:36,277 and whether any of these programs, including Jerry's, 744 00:35:36,301 --> 00:35:37,878 had anything to do with it. 745 00:35:37,902 --> 00:35:42,283 {\an8}-You had this horrible Columbine massacre at a school 746 00:35:42,307 --> 00:35:44,552 with these two cuckoos 747 00:35:44,576 --> 00:35:47,788 who walked in with guns and raincoats. 748 00:35:47,812 --> 00:35:52,460 And the next day, they're saying we were responsible. 749 00:35:52,484 --> 00:35:54,862 -There were forces in Chicago. 750 00:35:54,886 --> 00:35:59,700 A Catholic priest named Michael Pfleger led a protest 751 00:35:59,724 --> 00:36:02,536 and actually brought picketers and petitions 752 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,741 and marches to NBC Tower to protest Jerry Springer 753 00:36:06,765 --> 00:36:09,643 and to try to get him off the air. 754 00:36:09,667 --> 00:36:11,545 -Very righteous man. 755 00:36:11,569 --> 00:36:15,649 He got a group of people to picket and they're making noise 756 00:36:15,673 --> 00:36:18,419 and people were screaming outside of the building 757 00:36:18,443 --> 00:36:20,187 and walking around with picket signs 758 00:36:20,211 --> 00:36:25,359 that says "Springer Show is Satan". We're not Satan. 759 00:36:25,383 --> 00:36:26,894 -I think it would be too difficult 760 00:36:26,918 --> 00:36:30,197 to draw a straight line from what was going on 761 00:36:30,221 --> 00:36:33,534 to what occurred in terms of the actual violence 762 00:36:33,558 --> 00:36:35,236 being played out, 763 00:36:35,260 --> 00:36:40,007 but I do believe that shows like "Springer" dramatized 764 00:36:40,031 --> 00:36:45,246 {\an8}a coarseness that was pervading society. 765 00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:48,516 {\an8}- "The Springer Show" is well used to receiving criticism, 766 00:36:48,540 --> 00:36:51,752 {\an8}especially from religious voices. 767 00:36:51,776 --> 00:36:53,854 {\an8}It's long been par for the course, 768 00:36:53,878 --> 00:36:57,224 {\an8}but then Oprah jumps into the fray. 769 00:36:57,248 --> 00:37:00,027 -I don't think that it was a calculated effort 770 00:37:00,051 --> 00:37:02,029 to target Springer, 771 00:37:02,053 --> 00:37:06,767 but Richard Dominick still took her negative comments 772 00:37:06,791 --> 00:37:08,469 as a challenge. 773 00:37:08,493 --> 00:37:12,706 -There came a point in the show where "The Springer Show" 774 00:37:12,730 --> 00:37:17,044 was number two in the ratings of daytime. 775 00:37:17,068 --> 00:37:19,246 There was only "Oprah" ahead of us, 776 00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:22,216 but she started making me angry 777 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:25,319 because she's sitting on top of the heap, 778 00:37:25,343 --> 00:37:27,488 and every time I turn around, I hear, "Oprah said this. 779 00:37:27,512 --> 00:37:28,556 Oprah said that." 780 00:37:28,580 --> 00:37:29,957 She says it in the press. 781 00:37:29,981 --> 00:37:31,625 And the only thing I ever said was, 782 00:37:31,649 --> 00:37:34,595 "If you want to save the whales, call Oprah. 783 00:37:34,619 --> 00:37:36,263 If you're sleeping with a whale, 784 00:37:36,287 --> 00:37:37,765 called 'The Jerry Springer Show'." 785 00:37:37,789 --> 00:37:40,468 That's the only thing I ever said publicly, 786 00:37:40,492 --> 00:37:41,802 but to the staff, I said, 787 00:37:41,826 --> 00:37:43,971 "You know what? I want to beat her." 788 00:37:43,995 --> 00:37:45,806 - Give me another shot, Jerry. - Oh, yeah. 789 00:37:45,830 --> 00:37:50,411 -By 1998, Jerry Springer was number one. 790 00:37:50,435 --> 00:37:53,314 He was still front page news in Chicago 791 00:37:53,338 --> 00:37:56,784 for everything that was going on with the show. 792 00:37:56,808 --> 00:37:59,019 And there were still people who were complaining 793 00:37:59,043 --> 00:38:01,489 about the fights and the violence. 794 00:38:01,513 --> 00:38:04,091 That was when it was at its peak. 795 00:38:04,115 --> 00:38:07,595 Into that comes the Chicago City Council. 796 00:38:07,619 --> 00:38:09,330 -If it's a crime to slap your wife 797 00:38:09,354 --> 00:38:12,933 at Sox Park or Soldier Field, 798 00:38:12,957 --> 00:38:15,169 then it's a crime to slap your wife on the stage 799 00:38:15,193 --> 00:38:16,670 at "The Springer Show". 800 00:38:16,694 --> 00:38:18,939 -An alderman named Ed Burke 801 00:38:18,963 --> 00:38:22,276 decided to go after Springer 802 00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:28,282 {\an1}on the basis of the fights that were being shown on the program. 803 00:38:28,306 --> 00:38:32,052 Basically, his case was there's only two possibilities... 804 00:38:32,076 --> 00:38:35,289 If those fights are real, then that is assault 805 00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:39,059 and the Chicago police ought to be arresting those people. 806 00:38:39,083 --> 00:38:42,329 If those fights are not real, then it's fraud 807 00:38:42,353 --> 00:38:45,966 and it shouldn't be allowed to be shown on television. 808 00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:48,302 -If I was to suddenly grab this book 809 00:38:48,326 --> 00:38:50,571 and walk up to you and smack you with it... 810 00:38:50,595 --> 00:38:52,206 -Yeah? 811 00:38:52,230 --> 00:38:55,142 - would you think that I was committing a violation? 812 00:38:55,166 --> 00:38:57,344 -You want him to do it? [ Chuckles ] 813 00:38:57,368 --> 00:38:59,647 -Jerry, much to his credit, 814 00:38:59,671 --> 00:39:03,083 showed up and testified without being subpoenaed 815 00:39:03,107 --> 00:39:05,920 and made a mockery of the whole thing. 816 00:39:05,944 --> 00:39:08,756 I mean, basically, he treated it all as a joke 817 00:39:08,780 --> 00:39:11,258 because the fact is it really was a joke. 818 00:39:11,282 --> 00:39:13,661 -Let me ask the question. Would you like me to 819 00:39:13,685 --> 00:39:16,597 have a reporter read the question back to you? 820 00:39:16,621 --> 00:39:20,000 {\an1}It calls for a yes or no answer. - Yes. Would you please do it? 821 00:39:20,024 --> 00:39:21,869 Because at least she won't be yelling. Go ahead. 822 00:39:21,893 --> 00:39:22,903 [ Laughter ] 823 00:39:22,927 --> 00:39:24,605 -It was purely for headlines. 824 00:39:24,629 --> 00:39:28,876 It was pure grandstanding in the classic political sense. 825 00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:30,611 And Jerry Springer, 826 00:39:30,635 --> 00:39:34,715 who was a politician before he ever got into television, 827 00:39:34,739 --> 00:39:36,350 knew that better than anyone. 828 00:39:36,374 --> 00:39:39,019 -They asked him if he wanted to make a statement, 829 00:39:39,043 --> 00:39:41,088 and he said, "I am not now, 830 00:39:41,112 --> 00:39:44,391 nor have I ever been a member of the Communist Party." 831 00:39:44,415 --> 00:39:46,260 And we just laughed at them. 832 00:39:46,284 --> 00:39:48,195 -It was a wonderful performance. 833 00:39:48,219 --> 00:39:52,066 He was not concerned at all that this was going to amount 834 00:39:52,090 --> 00:39:56,604 to anything of any substance at all. 835 00:39:56,628 --> 00:39:59,540 -[ Crowd chanting "Jerry!" ] 836 00:39:59,564 --> 00:40:02,710 -The negative media attention bolsters Springer's ratings 837 00:40:02,734 --> 00:40:05,779 even more, 838 00:40:05,803 --> 00:40:08,382 but his particular strain of trash esthetics 839 00:40:08,406 --> 00:40:11,552 will give birth to a new kind of entertainment, 840 00:40:11,576 --> 00:40:14,788 one that will change the country. 841 00:40:14,812 --> 00:40:16,814 -Pay attention. Please. 842 00:40:23,087 --> 00:40:27,334 -During the '90s, Jerry Springer endures criticism 843 00:40:27,358 --> 00:40:32,239 from almost every angle, but through it all, he survives. 844 00:40:32,263 --> 00:40:34,408 In fact, he thrives. 845 00:40:34,432 --> 00:40:37,911 To his fan base, he can do no wrong. 846 00:40:37,935 --> 00:40:42,283 -It's hard to describe today just how big he was 847 00:40:42,307 --> 00:40:46,353 for the few years that he was on top. 848 00:40:46,377 --> 00:40:51,091 He wrote a best-selling book, he recorded a song. 849 00:40:51,115 --> 00:40:55,262 Even the outtakes of the show sold millions of copies. 850 00:40:55,286 --> 00:41:00,701 He became such a huge cultural and social phenomenon 851 00:41:00,725 --> 00:41:04,104 that it far exceeded the show. 852 00:41:04,128 --> 00:41:06,106 -But as the decade comes to an end, 853 00:41:06,130 --> 00:41:10,978 talk shows like Springer's start to see their ratings decline. 854 00:41:11,002 --> 00:41:12,513 -I think it just had its heyday. 855 00:41:12,537 --> 00:41:15,115 I mean, you can't sustain for more than a decade 856 00:41:15,139 --> 00:41:20,621 that kind of programing unless you have more innovation. 857 00:41:20,645 --> 00:41:23,657 -How many times can you watch somebody rip off a wig 858 00:41:23,681 --> 00:41:25,292 and hit the gal? 859 00:41:25,316 --> 00:41:27,528 You can only be shocking for so long. 860 00:41:27,552 --> 00:41:30,664 And then, you know, you need to be beheading, 861 00:41:30,688 --> 00:41:32,423 and you're not going to get that. 862 00:41:35,493 --> 00:41:37,304 -Instead of public executions, 863 00:41:37,328 --> 00:41:40,341 a new type of entertainment hits our screens, 864 00:41:40,365 --> 00:41:45,379 {\an8}one that's been spliced from the exact same DNA as trash TV. 865 00:41:45,403 --> 00:41:49,249 - I was arrested! - Prostitution whore! 866 00:41:49,273 --> 00:41:52,720 You were [bleep] engaged 19 times?! 867 00:41:52,744 --> 00:41:54,655 You [bleep] bitch! 868 00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:55,689 [Bleep] 869 00:41:55,713 --> 00:41:57,324 [ Dishes crash ] 870 00:41:57,348 --> 00:42:05,199 -Springer opened the can of craziness and wild things. 871 00:42:05,223 --> 00:42:07,701 -Reality shows are the bird that evolved 872 00:42:07,725 --> 00:42:10,070 from the dinosaur of '90s talk shows. 873 00:42:10,094 --> 00:42:12,840 A lot of the tactics are the same. 874 00:42:12,864 --> 00:42:15,876 Particularly shows like "The Real Housewives" 875 00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:18,011 [laughs] 876 00:42:18,035 --> 00:42:20,180 is definitely an outgrowth of Jerry Springer 877 00:42:20,204 --> 00:42:22,616 because people want to see people fight 878 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,284 on those shows, too. 879 00:42:24,308 --> 00:42:28,522 -No ifs, ands, or buts. Daytime TV was the beginning 880 00:42:28,546 --> 00:42:32,226 and laid the groundwork for what we call reality TV. 881 00:42:32,250 --> 00:42:36,196 It gives people the same vicarious, salacious thrill 882 00:42:36,220 --> 00:42:39,533 that they were getting and looking at someone else. 883 00:42:39,557 --> 00:42:41,602 -Part of reality TV's mass appeal 884 00:42:41,626 --> 00:42:42,636 is that it blurs the line 885 00:42:42,660 --> 00:42:44,905 between truth and fiction, 886 00:42:44,929 --> 00:42:47,908 making it so powerful a medium 887 00:42:47,932 --> 00:42:51,779 that it ends up transforming American politics. 888 00:42:51,803 --> 00:42:53,213 -There's a lot of things that go into 889 00:42:53,237 --> 00:42:56,884 the mix of a cultural system 890 00:42:56,908 --> 00:42:59,987 that would end up electing a reality star 891 00:43:00,011 --> 00:43:04,291 {\an8}as a president, who behaved, in my view, 892 00:43:04,315 --> 00:43:07,761 {\an8}worse than any "Jerry Springer" guest. 893 00:43:07,785 --> 00:43:09,663 Everything is sort of confrontational, 894 00:43:09,687 --> 00:43:12,666 loud, in your face, brash, conflictual. 895 00:43:12,690 --> 00:43:14,635 Reality television might have given him 896 00:43:14,659 --> 00:43:15,903 a platform for that. 897 00:43:15,927 --> 00:43:18,739 -If you took what we did in the 1990s 898 00:43:18,763 --> 00:43:21,575 and showed it today in its entirety, 899 00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:26,413 the cancel culture... People's heads would explode. 900 00:43:26,437 --> 00:43:30,350 It's not going to work because Jerry was in the '90s 901 00:43:30,374 --> 00:43:33,086 and that's when it shocked everybody. 902 00:43:33,110 --> 00:43:36,190 -[ Audience chanting "Jerry!" ] 903 00:43:36,214 --> 00:43:38,625 -We have to say this about Jerry. 904 00:43:38,649 --> 00:43:40,494 For all his faults, 905 00:43:40,518 --> 00:43:44,465 he was the first to admit that he was doing a stupid talk show 906 00:43:44,489 --> 00:43:49,102 {\an8}and that there was no more significance to it than that. 907 00:43:49,126 --> 00:43:51,672 {\an8}-Somebody said, "Were you ever offended 908 00:43:51,696 --> 00:43:57,110 {\an8}by any of the guests on the show, by something they did?" 909 00:43:57,134 --> 00:43:59,279 {\an8}And the answer was no. 910 00:43:59,303 --> 00:44:02,316 {\an8}When the man said "I married a horse," 911 00:44:02,340 --> 00:44:05,643 {\an8}I said, "I'd love to see a picture of the bride."