[disquieting music]
His hands are around my neck.
[Wayne] It should've been a slam dunk.
You caught the man in the act.
♪
[Gary] This was the worst outcome
of my career.
[Jillian] Samuel Little never thought
that he would be convicted.
There was such a miscarriage of justice.
[Laurie] They failed me.
They failed every woman after me.
Because we're prostitutes, we're women,
it doesn't really matter.
So guess what.
All the deaths after me are on them.
[Mitzi] It sickens me now
that so many women are dead:
Melinda LaPree, Patricia Mount,
Carol Alford, Audrey Nelson,
Guadalupe Apodaca, and more.
[Darren] But there's two more prostitutes
that have survived Sam's attack:
Hilda Nelson and Leila McClain.
[Mitzi] Leila McClain summed it up to a T
when she said, "Ain't nobody gonna believe
"a Black prostitute
in Pascagoula, Mississippi, in 1982."
♪
[melancholy music]
[Jillian] In August of 2018,
when I interviewed Sam the first time,
he had maintained his innocence,
but by the end of our second interview,
he started confessing to me,
and he told me about 13 murders that day.
It left me, like, frozen.
I sort of... [exhales deeply]
...said, "Okay, call law enforcement immediately."
And so I called Mitzi Roberts, and I said,
"He's talking.
What do I do?"
[suspenseful music]
And she said, "There is a lead investigator
on this now, and he is a Texas Ranger."
Ranger James Holland
was organizing a national effort
to solve these cold cases
related to Samuel Little.
So I got a call from Ranger Holland, saying:
"Hello, this is Texas Ranger James Holland,
and I hear that you have some information for me."
And I said, "Well, you know,
"can I just organize my notes? Can I"--
He's like, "No. Just read them to me.
Just give-just give it to me. What do you got?"
And as I went through them, he was like,
"Got it, go.
Next one, next one, next one, next one."
And I was just like, "Okay, I guess he knows
about these murders already."
And then I told him
about the victim in Omaha that was left in a barrel,
and then he said,
"Stop.
Say that again?"
[dramatic music]
[Jillian] Right.
The victim was a Native American woman.
She was in a bar,
and Sam walked in, and he said,
"Is that an Indian?
Never met a real Indian."
[ominous music]
[Jillian] Her friend said, "Don't get in the car,"
but she got in the car.
♪
[Jillian] Hmm.
[Jillian] And he strangled her there in the car
and left her naked body in this barrel.
♪
So two days later,
Ranger James Holland calls back,
and he's like, "We got her.
We got the victim in Omaha,"
the one from my confession.
That was the information that identified her,
and it was Agatha White Buffalo.
[news reporter] In 1973,
the body of the 34-year-old was found
stuffed in one of these barrels
at 27th and N.
She had been strangled to death.
Her murder is no longer a cold case.
Omaha police tell me it's officially classified now
as exceptionally clear.
[Jillian] Initially, I wasn't trying
to solve a murder.
I just remember walking outside and saying,
you know, like, "I think maybe I just did the best thing
I've ever done in my life."
And I haven't been able to stop since.
♪
[news reporter] The FBI calls Samuel Little
America's most prolific serial killer.
[Sam] If you want me to tell my secrets to you,
come down here and look me in my eye
while I do.
[Jillian] My deal with the devil is,
"You will not die alone if you tell me the truth."
[Sam] I'm not gonna admit to those girls.
[Jillian] I don't believe you.
So you tell me the truth right now.
[news reporter] Little strangled 93 victims
between 1970 and 2005.
[Jillian] He was tried and got off
again and again and again.
[news reporter] Investigators believe
that Samuel Little killed more people
than serial killers Ted Bundy,
John Wayne Gacy, and Jeffrey Dahmer combined.
[Jillian] If you weren't locked up,
I'd probably be dead by now.
[Sam] You're right.
[footsteps clomping]
[Jillian] These are all drawings
that Sam has sent me.
These are his murder victims.
[melancholy string music]
Sam learned to draw in the Ohio State Reformatory,
where he was incarcerated
when he was 17 years old.
It's interesting to think about how you can have
the kind of close observation that art requires
and then also... the complete disregard
for human life that murder requires.
You can definitely see his art changing over time.
I guess my hope is that they're getting more...
true to life,
because then they might be matched
to an unidentified victim.
♪
You know, these are the ones I keep in my office...
♪
...as sort of references and, um, inspiration
to keep going
investigating these murders.
These are not curiosities to me.
These are lives
that were lost.
This is Audrey,
one of Sam's victims from Los Angeles.
I have a relationship with a lot of the victims,
but I most relate to Audrey
and think that that could've been me.
Audrey was really artistic.
She was, like, a very loud, bright personality,
and so when I want...
kind of creative motivation or inspiration,
I'll talk to Audrey.
[dramatic music]
This is a victim of Sam's
that is still unidentified.
He often draws petechial hemorrhaging
in their eyes,
which is...
what happens when you're strangled,
broken blood vessels in your eyes.
♪
I write a lot from the victims' perspectives,
which I feel is taking a lot of license,
and I wanna be very mindful of that.
I really try to...
ask their permission.
♪
And I ask,
"Can I tell your story,
and will you help me?"
What I like to imagine
is that Sam is no longer
the only person
who witnessed those moments.
I don't want them to...
♪
...just have been alone with a monster, you know?
♪
This is one of his favorite victims.
I don't think he even knows
why certain victims stay with him more than others,
or he-he goes over and over and over them
again in his mind
while he's lying there in his cell.
This reads, "Sam kill me but he knows I love him.
Ms. Sam."
[eerie music]
And then this reads,
"Your sister Jillian.
My dream. Mr. Sam."
There's very little that does not creep me out
about any of this.
Yeah, he believes
that I'm...
basically one of his victims,
like I'm a living, breathing victim,
but essentially, I belong to him.
He possesses me
the same way that he feels,
uh, about his victims,
and, um, that we're all gonna be together again
in heaven.
♪
[sighs]
♪
[Jillian] You feel that God has forgiven you?
[Jillian] Right.
[line beeps]
[sighs] Jesus.
♪
How did I get the ear of a serial killer?
I listened to him.
♪
I told him I cared.
I told him I wouldn't judge him.
I told him I wouldn't leave him.
I said, "Give it to me straight,
"give me everything,
"and I'll take your calls,
"and I'll write you letters,
and I'll be your friend."
And that's how I got him to talk.
♪
[Jillian] Yeah, tell me.
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
[Jillian] Right.
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
I'm in this very unusual position
because most people don't get to interview
someone of this...
degree of perniciousness
and evil
for this long of a time, you know?
It's a-it's, like, a two-year interview process we've had
since I started working on this project.
♪
[line trills]
[Jill] This is Jill.
Hey, Jill. It's Jillian.
-How are you? -[Jill] Good.
We're talking about titles and cover.
[Jill]
-Uh-huh. -[Jill]
-[Jillian] Uh-huh. -[Jill]
Yeah. That's part of it.
I definitely grapple with themes
of, you know, what is monstrous and what is human.
♪
I want to understand
this kind of aberrant behavior.
I wanna know his story,
what made him who he is.
Sam, will you tell me about your childhood?
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
Why don't we start that story
from the beginning?
[Jillian] Mm.
[Jillian] How?
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
[melancholy music]
♪
[Jillian] Samuel Little was born in 1940
in Reynolds, Georgia, which is a rural town
in the South.
♪
Sam Little's mother, Bessie Mae Little,
was 16 years old,
and she had an affair
with Paul McDowell,
who was a little bit older.
♪
And she wound up pregnant with Sam.
♪
Sam's mother, Bessie Mae,
was raised by her grandmother,
Josephine,
because her mother died in childbirth,
and so this grandmother was furious
about Bessie Mae having a baby.
[thunder booming]
[rain pattering]
When Sam was somewhere
between six and nine months old,
Josephine put her granddaughter out and said,
"You need to... get rid of this boy.
Just leave him by the side of the road."
♪
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
[Jillian] And eventually,
she just got too despondent and exhausted
and collapsed.
♪
Bessie Mae crawled to the side of the road,
laid her baby down in the mud,
eyes to God, and prayed.
"Jesus," she said,
"please protect this child."
♪
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
[Jillian] There was a peddler with a goat cart
who everyone knew in the town.
[Jillian] And everybody knew
that Bessie Mae's child was Paul's child,
and so this peddler
picked Sam up
and took him to his paternal grandparents,
and so Fanny and Henry took him in.
♪
Sam was taken by his grandparents
to Lorain, Ohio,
and raised by them
as if he was their son.
[music intensifies]
[Jillian] Right.
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
[suspenseful music]
♪
[Jillian] When he was 13 years old,
he ran away from home,
and he saw these bicycles lined up in a row,
and that was his first real time
he stole something.
♪
They arrested him,
and based on that,
he wound up in the Boys' Industrial School.
So the Boys' Industrial School
was like the reformatory school.
Sam was in there for 19 months.
It was historically a very abusive environment.
[disquieting music]
[Jillian] Right.
[Jillian] Each night, the younger boys
kept their eyes shut tight and prayed,
listening to the footsteps of the older boys
strolling the rows of bunks.
They knew the next sound they heard
would be screams.
If on some nights, those screams
sounded suspiciously like Sam's,
he knew it was never him.
It was understood
that even if it was you,
you never admitted to it.
♪
[suspenseful music]
[Jillian] Right.
♪
[Jillian] Sam has a very...
vehement victim narrative
about his life.
He really wanted to share that with me.
I just said, "I would like to listen,
"I would like to not judge you,
and I just wanna understand."
[uneasy music]
During the time that Sam was in the Ohio State Reformatory
in the early '60s,
his mother, Bessie Mae,
sent him a letter.
His mother, who he had not seen since he was four,
wrote him and said, "I'm living in Miami.
"I'm living in a place called Coconut Grove.
"It's fantastic.
"The sun shines all the time.
"I have money.
Won't you come see me, my one and only son?"
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
[Jillian laughs]
[Jillian] Sam moved in with his mother,
who had sort of a rooming house.
♪
[Jillian] That's a little weird, Sam.
[laughs]
♪
His mother wanted to make sure
he was having sex
so she would have a grandchild,
because she never got to raise him.
When that wasn't working,
she would... crawl into bed with him at night,
and she would have him
suck on her breast as an adult man.
Wow.
Whew!
She was sexually inappropriate with him,
but he'll apologize for her until the end of time.
You're talking about Bessie Mae?
Did it make you angry,
or did it make you aroused?
[somber music]
♪
[Jillian] Sam told me
he had been thinking about killing women
for a long time.
But it wasn't until he moved in with his mother
that he finally,
after many years of thinking about it...
...killed a woman.
♪
He was like,
"You wanna know about the first one?"
♪
And I was like, "Yeah.
I wanna know about the first one."
♪
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
[dramatic music]
[Jillian] How do you build a psychopath?
How do you build a serial killer?
I can't tell you
what makes one person go through all these things
and turn into somebody
who kills women.
I'm not a neuroscientist.
But my understanding is that a serial killer
is a perfect storm of genetics and environment.
♪
The first murder happened before Sam's mom died,
and then after he lost his mother,
it is the ultimate abandonment,
and he goes fully off the rails,
and he went on a rageful killing spree.
[Jillian] It was like the last thread
that tied him to his mom snapped
and he was free of all his guilt
and obligation of trying
to do the right thing by his family,
free to be who he truly was.
Now there would be no stopping him.
[menacing music]
♪
My job is to enter a world
and try to imagine myself
into other people's minds
and other people's lives.
But it does seem like a tremendous responsibility
when those people are no longer alive.
[desolate music]
♪
I don't only wanna know
what Sam has to say
about the women he killed.
I have a drive to really understand
these women-- what they were like,
what they dreamed of, who they truly were--
and I wanna know about their families,
because they are also Sam's victims.
♪
[children shouting]
[Pearl] My mother, Audrey,
fought for her life.
I always think about, like, what she went through,
what-what that was like for her.
What else I got in here?
[somber music]
My name is Pearl,
and I am Audrey Nelson's daughter.
Samuel Little murdered my mother
in Los Angeles.
These are a couple little stuffed animals
that my mom tried to send to me
through my Uncle Bill
so I would know that, uh, she was thinking of me.
[Jillian] The multigenerational ripple effect
of unsolved cold case murder
is massive.
For many of these families,
I'm the first person they've told this story to,
so I feel like it's my responsibility
to hold their pain and listen to them.
♪
All those years not knowing what happened
to my mother, Audrey,
was very difficult.
It's something that you really put
deep inside of you,
and it's terrible that you can't share that.
♪
And so one day, I get a message
from a lady named Jillian Lauren,
and she says that she was gonna be writing a book,
and she wanted to know about my mother, Audrey.
Jillian wanted to really shine some light
-on the victims... -[knocking]
...and tell their story,
and I said, "Yeah, come on up."
[Jillian] Oh, gosh, hi! [laughs]
How are you?
[Pearl] Good. How are you?
Good.
[Pearl] These are the treasures that I have
of my mother.
This'll kind of be nice
for you to see.
Where's this photo from?
Is that her high school yearbook?
[Pearl] So this is what she looked like
when she was 17.
This is 1971...
[Jillian] Mm.
...five years before I was born.
Wow.
[Pearl] I know.
Look at her, so cute in her bikini and...
just feeding those birds like that.
She was so happy.
♪
This is the only photograph that I have
of my mother holding me.
This is the most precious photograph
in my entire life.
She looks really proud.
[Pearl] I was with my mother for a whole year
before, um, she got arrested
and Social Services said
that, um, she wasn't fit to take care of me
because of the life that she'd been living,
because of the prostitution.
♪
So I was adopted
by my grandmother and grandfather.
But my mother did not ever wanna lose me.
[eerie music]
♪
[sighing] Oh.
Eighth grade school year,
I was, uh, hanging my clothes
up to dry on the porch,
and the police...
show up on the-on the doorstep,
and Grandmother was like,
"Oh, go to your room. Go to your room."
I was like...
You know, I just kind of hid.
I just kind of hid and listened.
They found out that she was just--
she was murdered in Los Angeles.
They didn't catch the person
or anything.
My mother was gone,
and all my chances of ever being with her again
completely vanished.
[sighs]
[dramatic music]
[news reporter] Investigators say
this is the face of a serial killer,
one who's managed to elude capture for years.
[news reporter] Seventy-two-year-old
Samuel Little is now charged with three cold case murders
in California.
[Pearl] I could never forget that moment
when, in 2014,
I received a phone call
from a detective in Los Angeles,
Mitzi Roberts.
And I said, um, "You caught the guy."
She's like, "Yeah. We caught the guy."
He's definitely the one that
not only murdered my mother,
but there is a couple other ladies.
[news reporter] The victims were all mothers
leading what police call high-risk lifestyles.
[Mitzi] He just seemed to always be
one step ahead of the law.
Well, I know for sure it's-it's--
that's not the way it's gonna be this time.
♪
The months in between arrest and trial
are just filled with preparing the best case
for the murders of Audrey Nelson,
Guadalupe Apodaca,
and Carol Alford
and not just rely on the DNA
but to put together a case
that was so strong
that we would leave the jury... [laughs]
...with no other choice but conviction.
[Beth] No one's ever attempted to put it all together before,
and so we were very immersed in...
all of his prior crimes,
reviewing files and talking to law enforcement,
uh, and prosecutors across the country
and digging up surviving victims
so that the jury had as many of those puzzle pieces
as they could.
♪
[Wayne] I remember that I got the call
from LAPD Homicide.
They said, "Detective Sergeant Spees?"
and said, uh, "Thirty years ago,
you arrested a guy for rape."
And I said, "Sam Little."
She said, "Do you remember the case?"
and I said, "Absolutely.
The Laurie Barros and Tonya Jackson case."
She says, "Well, we have him on three homicides,"
and I was-I was, you know, blown away.
And she goes, "And we made him on the DNA,
the DNA that you guys collected."
She was a great detective, uh, Mitzi Roberts,
and, uh, you know, she said,
"We're gonna-we're gonna have you testify."
♪
[Mitzi] We went around, and we talked
to the surviving victims,
um, the ones that wanted to-to talk,
like Laurie, the surviving victim
from the San Diego attack who was left for dead.
♪
[Laurie] When I got that phone call
saying, "We need you to testify,"
I think all the air was sucked out of me.
[sighs]
I had no idea that he served only two and a half years
for two attempted murders, rapes--
very sadistic ones, no less--
until Mitzi told me.
♪
I lost it.
I broke down,
and I-I... I was scared all over again.
I-I...
I didn't wanna do it.
[Mitzi] God, I was on the phone with her
for probably three hours,
just talking her through it
and trying to convince her
that I know it seems so hard now
but that-that she had to trust us.
"This is your chance to take back the power
"and to tell your story.
This is for you too."
We, for whatever reason as a society,
treat victims of sexual assault
different than we treat victims of any other crime.
Sexual assault victims tend to be treated
on the stand like they're liars,
but it's not gonna happen on this case.
[desolate music]
Surviving victims on cases like this,
they are gold.
They are the... linchpin
that allows a jury to actually understand
what happened to all of these women
who can no longer speak
because they're in their graves.
♪
[Darren] The prosecutor, who was Beth Silverman,
she calls me.
She wanted to be sure
she brought every witness she could get.
She wanted all of us there.
I call Leila McClain,
and I call Hilda Nelson,
the two victims that survived his attack in Pascagoula,
and I let them know that he's in custody,
and they were like, "Oh, thank you, Jesus.
Thank you, Jesus," and they were all ready to go.
They were excited.
They could have their day in court.
♪
[Beth] In August of 2014,
the trial against Sam Little began.
He comes across looking much different
now that all these decades have gone by,
and he's sitting in a wheelchair,
and so one of the pieces of evidence
that I like to use is photographs,
as many photographs as the detectives can find
of what he looked like at the time
that he was sexually assaulting
and trying to kill these women,
as opposed to the little old man
sitting in the wheelchair.
♪
The defense was that he didn't do
any of these crimes, that he wasn't, uh,
even a sex offender,
that he had consensual sex with these women,
that they were women
who had prostituted themselves
and probably had consensual sex with a number of men,
so either he's a serial killer,
or he's just the unluckiest guy on the-on the planet.
And so in the opening statement, the jury was told
that the surviving victims were going to come in
and they were going to be able
to establish a blueprint for what likely happened
to the three victims who were murdered here in LA,
Audrey Nelson, Carol Alford, and Guadalupe Apodaca.
♪
Two separate victims from Pascagoula, Mississippi,
Leila and Hilda,
who were survivors,
told stories that were strikingly similar.
[Darren] Leila McClain tells a story
to where she is actually in a bar in Carver Village
when she is approached, uh,
and-and offered a date,
and she gets in the car
with Sam Little.
[eerie music]
Here are the... trial transcripts
from Los Angeles.
These are all 4,000-something pages
of the trial.
Let me find Leila's testimony.
♪
"As we was going around the corner,
"I say, 'Go back that way.'
"He say, 'I don't need to turn around
for what I want to do to you.'"
"And then he hit me right here
"in between my eyes
and then coldcocked me behind my head."
"So you fought back?"
"With everything I had."
"Did you think that he was trying to kill you,
choke you to death?"
"Definitely. He was going to kill me."
[Mitzi] When it came time for fireball Leila to identify
the person you're testifying about in court,
she turns and says,
"Yeah, it's that man over there,
only he's uglier now." [laughs]
And I just thought that was the greatest.
So, um--and Sam didn't like that too much.
[melancholy music]
[Darren] What I do find ironic about all this
is that these people that we looked at
as maybe not really reliable witnesses
in 1982
were heroes and stars
in California in 2014
when they helped prosecute Sam Little.
♪
[Mitzi] When Laurie got to court,
it hit her finally
that this was real
and that she was gonna have to face this guy.
She went into a complete panic attack.
♪
[Laurie] Just really triggered by the courtroom itself,
you know, the building,
just think-bringing memories back
and a feeling like I'm not gonna be believed
and I'm gonna be judged and I'm--
why am I electing to do this to myself again?
♪
[Mitzi] We just told her, "This is your conviction,
what you should've gotten so many years ago,"
and then she got it together, and she was so good
and so powerful.
[Laurie] And I looked him in the face
multiple times.
"You don't win."
♪
[Beth] One thing I noticed about the surviving victims
was that the longer they sat on the stand,
the more comfortable they became
trying to show Sam Little
that they were stronger than him
and that they had risen above what he had done to them.
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
[Sam laughs]
[Jillian] Yeah, yeah.
Well, she believes that was the truth.
♪
[Mitzi] It was a bunch of powerful women
that took him down.
That's something that Sam never had to deal--
he was used to overpowering these women
and then getting away with it and getting away with it,
and I really think he thought again,
he was gonna get away with it this time.
But, you know, the jig is up,
as they say.
♪
[Jillian] She did a hell- she did a hell of a job.
She really did. You got to admit it.
♪
[Mitzi] September 2, 2014,
the verdict was read, and Sam was convicted
of all three counts of murder, first degree.
♪
[news reporter] The relatives of Little's victims
spoke out during today's sentencing hearing.
Afterwards, they gathered in a courthouse hallway,
total strangers brought together by tragedy.
I was 13 when I had to bury her.
I had to say goodbye.
[news reporter] Pearl Unique Nelson says her mother
was just starting to get her life back together
when she was murdered in 1989.
We got him. He's gone.
He can't hurt anybody now.
♪
I think when Samuel Little knew,
"The show is over, and now I'm going to jail,"
he was just more dark and angry.
His eyes changed.
Could never forget that moment.
[news reporter] Seventy-four-year-old
Samuel Little swore at the victims' relatives
and shouted in the courtroom
during the sentencing hearing,
denying that he committed the killings.
I didn't do it.
[bleep].
[judge] Mr. Little, that's enough.
[news reporter] Tony Zambrano is talking
about his mother, Guadalupe Apodaca.
In this photo, Tony is seen smiling,
sitting alongside his brother and mother,
who was murdered by Little in 1989.
It was a big mystery.
You know, um, you know, that's-that's--
that was--been the worst part,
not knowing, you know, who did it.
If you have a mom out there, you know, call her up,
and, you know, tell her you love her,
because you might not have another chance.
[Mitzi] Then it was Sam's turn to speak,
and he gave some spiel
about how it was a modern-day lynching.
This conviction was brought on by lies
and liars coached by liars.
[Mitzi] He said Beth and I, you know,
made up lies and the victims are all liars.
The obsession of labeling me as a serial killer
without any proof, any bodies,
was a legal lynching.
[dramatic music]
[Mitzi] The judge sentenced him to the maximum,
which was three life sentences
with no possibility of parole.
[Jillian] Even after Sam Little
was finally convicted
of three murders in 2014,
he... vehemently denied
he committed these crimes
until 2018, when he began confessing to me.
Sam still does go on these rants
about how he was framed.
"DNA doesn't prove anything. Just proved that I was there."
And I'm like, "But you did it!
"Just say you did it.
"Just admit it.
"Just say you're guilty,
'cause you are guilty."
And he did.
♪
I feel like we haven't talked
about the victims
that you were convicted for.
I wanna hear about Audrey.
I wanna hear about Lupe.
I want you to walk me through them, one by one.
[Jillian] That's right.
[Jillian] Do you know she was an artist, too,
like you?
♪
Did you ever ask Sam about Audrey?
I did.
Did he even remember that one?
Yes.
He remembered, um... [sighs]
How much do you wanna know?
Just tell me.
So she was staying at a hotel
in downtown LA.
She was walking down the street.
He pulled up, picked her up,
and they went and got some heroin,
they got high in the back of his car,
and that he strangled her
on the floor of the car,
um, and it was right there
in the... parking lot
where he left her.
Um, he half picked her up, half dragged her,
uh, out of the car
and put her in the-in the dumpster...
-Mm-hmm. -...where she was left,
and you've seen her.
Yes.
No, nothing's pretty about what he does.
I just feel like, you know,
that Sam Little--just, he...
he was kind of just jonesing
for-for a quick kill.
He just saw someone.
Unfortunately, it was her.
I think that's correct,
that it was more of a chance...
-Yeah, it wasn't-- -...encounter.
Yeah.
She fought. She-she fought.
She fought him.
She was kicking and screaming,
and you could tell by all the bruises,
and he was dragging her.
Sh-she was fighting for her life.
♪
Knowing what happened, I feel
like, uh, the chapter
has been closed on a book.
I feel that now my mother, Audrey,
can really rest in peace.
♪
[Jillian] This story, Audrey's story,
will never leave me.
After seeing the Audrey Nelson crime scene photos,
I kept having these dreams
that my kids were in a dumpster,
that my dogs were in a dumpster.
Like, I just kept having these dreams that
my husband would just be sobbing.
[indistinct chatter]
-Catch! -Oh, game over!
[Jillian] The Sam Little project
wears on you.
It wears on the relationship.
It wears on the family.
[operator] ...call from a telephone--
...call from a telephone number...
[Jillian] The repetitiveness of it,
the consistent demands
of a sociopath
who, by definition,
is a psychic vampire...
but I've always tried to provide
a safe space for my children
and my family
around this work,
and there's a lot to negotiate.
So, T, how do you feel
about what I'm writing about right now?
[Tariku] It's kind of cool.
What's cool about it?
I like stories.
[Jillian] You think the story about Sam
is a pretty good story?
[Tariku] Yeah.
You think it has a good villain in it?
Well...
he's kind of too villainous
and, like, he just doesn't care
who dies and who lives.
Yeah, he doesn't really have empathy, right?
My 12-year-old is really curious,
and he's really interested in the forensics of it,
and he's sort of a junior detective.
He wants to understand DNA. He wants to talk about it.
Now, my eight-year-old...
You win.
-You get your hugs later. -All right.
...I just try to keep him away as much as I can,
but he knows.
[sighs]
Do you feel like, um,
my working on this story has...
affected our-our family and our lives?
Because... dealing with someone without empathy
-can be very... -[Tariku] Mm-hmm.
-...difficult. -[Tariku] Yeah.
How do you feel like it's affected us?
Because you can't, like--
you can't be mad at him.
Well, you can be mad at him, but, like,
you can't, like, show your anger.
Otherwise, you can't get the stuff that you need.
And--but then you have-- you let it out at home.
But if you could let it out,
I bet it would be a different story
and... all this would be different.
[Scott] I'm not resenting the project.
I'm not resenting anyone
other than probably Sam himself,
and, uh, I guess
that it-it feels important and necessary,
but I don't want our kids
really being exposed to it that much.
♪
And there's times where I'm like,
"I just can't hear any more about this."
♪
So right now, we figured out a way
where it's just like, "Listen,
"y-just go up and work.
"Can't come down here and-and talk about this
in this kind of space we're in with the kids and stuff."
♪
I have-I have been a little angry.
[Tariku] Mm.
I'm sorry.
It's okay.
[melancholy music]
-Yeah. -I'm not angry at you.
-I know. -You gave me a great manicure.
Wanna do another coat?
♪
[Scott] I've always had a-a feeling
that we're drawn into things
for a reason, and...
these victims' stories need to be told,
and... it's really, really important to her,
and I feel it's-it's important to the souls of these...
people.
♪
[Jillian] I believe in the project,
and I-I believe in the case,
and I-I wound up in the middle of it
before I even understood
what it was.
♪
It's taken its toll
on myself and my family.
[disquieting music]
♪
I never expected to be solving cold cases,
but it is a mission for me now.
I have a compulsion
or an obsession...
to bring justice to these victims...
Oh, yeah, look at that.
...before he dies,
because so many of these mysteries,
so many of these Jane Does,
die with him.
♪