1 00:00:00,739 --> 00:00:04,482 [disquieting music] 2 00:00:04,612 --> 00:00:06,223 His hands are around my neck. 3 00:00:06,353 --> 00:00:08,921 [Wayne] It should've been a slam dunk. 4 00:00:09,052 --> 00:00:10,792 You caught the man in the act. 5 00:00:10,966 --> 00:00:13,056 ♪ 6 00:00:13,143 --> 00:00:15,232 [Gary] This was the worst outcome 7 00:00:15,319 --> 00:00:17,016 of my career. 8 00:00:17,147 --> 00:00:19,105 [Jillian] Samuel Little never thought 9 00:00:19,236 --> 00:00:21,760 that he would be convicted. 10 00:00:21,847 --> 00:00:24,110 There was such a miscarriage of justice. 11 00:00:24,241 --> 00:00:26,286 [Laurie] They failed me. 12 00:00:26,417 --> 00:00:29,072 They failed every woman after me. 13 00:00:29,202 --> 00:00:31,074 Because we're prostitutes, we're women, 14 00:00:31,204 --> 00:00:32,597 it doesn't really matter. 15 00:00:32,684 --> 00:00:34,033 So guess what. 16 00:00:34,164 --> 00:00:37,471 All the deaths after me are on them. 17 00:00:37,602 --> 00:00:39,169 [Mitzi] It sickens me now 18 00:00:39,299 --> 00:00:41,910 that so many women are dead: 19 00:00:42,041 --> 00:00:44,478 Melinda LaPree, Patricia Mount, 20 00:00:44,565 --> 00:00:47,002 Carol Alford, Audrey Nelson, 21 00:00:47,090 --> 00:00:50,441 Guadalupe Apodaca, and more. 22 00:00:50,571 --> 00:00:52,617 [Darren] But there's two more prostitutes 23 00:00:52,704 --> 00:00:54,967 that have survived Sam's attack: 24 00:00:55,098 --> 00:00:58,101 Hilda Nelson and Leila McClain. 25 00:00:58,231 --> 00:01:00,755 [Mitzi] Leila McClain summed it up to a T 26 00:01:00,842 --> 00:01:03,106 when she said, "Ain't nobody gonna believe 27 00:01:03,236 --> 00:01:04,716 "a Black prostitute 28 00:01:04,803 --> 00:01:07,501 in Pascagoula, Mississippi, in 1982." 29 00:01:07,675 --> 00:01:10,548 ♪ 30 00:01:13,768 --> 00:01:15,640 [melancholy music] 31 00:01:15,770 --> 00:01:19,644 [Jillian] In August of 2018, 32 00:01:19,774 --> 00:01:22,734 when I interviewed Sam the first time, 33 00:01:22,864 --> 00:01:25,606 he had maintained his innocence, 34 00:01:25,737 --> 00:01:28,566 but by the end of our second interview, 35 00:01:28,696 --> 00:01:30,133 he started confessing to me, 36 00:01:30,263 --> 00:01:34,049 and he told me about 13 murders that day. 37 00:01:34,180 --> 00:01:37,009 It left me, like, frozen. 38 00:01:37,140 --> 00:01:39,881 I sort of... [exhales deeply] 39 00:01:40,012 --> 00:01:44,799 ...said, "Okay, call law enforcement immediately." 40 00:01:44,930 --> 00:01:49,108 And so I called Mitzi Roberts, and I said, 41 00:01:49,239 --> 00:01:51,328 "He's talking. 42 00:01:51,458 --> 00:01:52,720 What do I do?" 43 00:01:52,851 --> 00:01:54,548 [suspenseful music] 44 00:01:54,679 --> 00:01:56,594 And she said, "There is a lead investigator 45 00:01:56,724 --> 00:01:59,292 on this now, and he is a Texas Ranger." 46 00:02:00,511 --> 00:02:02,513 Ranger James Holland 47 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,471 was organizing a national effort 48 00:02:04,602 --> 00:02:07,082 to solve these cold cases 49 00:02:07,213 --> 00:02:09,520 related to Samuel Little. 50 00:02:09,650 --> 00:02:14,177 So I got a call from Ranger Holland, saying: 51 00:02:14,307 --> 00:02:17,354 "Hello, this is Texas Ranger James Holland, 52 00:02:17,484 --> 00:02:20,879 and I hear that you have some information for me." 53 00:02:21,009 --> 00:02:22,489 And I said, "Well, you know, 54 00:02:22,620 --> 00:02:24,970 "can I just organize my notes? Can I"-- 55 00:02:25,100 --> 00:02:27,146 He's like, "No. Just read them to me. 56 00:02:27,277 --> 00:02:29,453 Just give-just give it to me. What do you got?" 57 00:02:29,583 --> 00:02:31,019 And as I went through them, he was like, 58 00:02:31,106 --> 00:02:32,717 "Got it, go. 59 00:02:32,847 --> 00:02:34,980 Next one, next one, next one, next one." 60 00:02:35,110 --> 00:02:36,764 And I was just like, "Okay, I guess he knows 61 00:02:36,895 --> 00:02:39,245 about these murders already." 62 00:02:39,376 --> 00:02:42,335 And then I told him 63 00:02:42,466 --> 00:02:46,818 about the victim in Omaha that was left in a barrel, 64 00:02:46,948 --> 00:02:48,559 and then he said, 65 00:02:48,646 --> 00:02:51,126 "Stop. 66 00:02:51,257 --> 00:02:52,476 Say that again?" 67 00:02:52,563 --> 00:02:53,999 [dramatic music] 68 00:02:58,133 --> 00:02:59,091 [Jillian] Right. 69 00:03:00,484 --> 00:03:01,311 [Jillian] Right. 70 00:03:03,356 --> 00:03:07,186 The victim was a Native American woman. 71 00:03:07,317 --> 00:03:09,536 She was in a bar, 72 00:03:09,667 --> 00:03:12,887 and Sam walked in, and he said, 73 00:03:13,018 --> 00:03:16,195 "Is that an Indian? 74 00:03:16,326 --> 00:03:17,544 Never met a real Indian." 75 00:03:38,783 --> 00:03:40,872 [ominous music] 76 00:03:41,002 --> 00:03:44,615 [Jillian] Her friend said, "Don't get in the car," 77 00:03:44,745 --> 00:03:46,530 but she got in the car. 78 00:03:46,704 --> 00:03:48,706 ♪ 79 00:03:57,367 --> 00:03:58,237 [Jillian] Hmm. 80 00:04:13,905 --> 00:04:17,822 [Jillian] And he strangled her there in the car 81 00:04:17,909 --> 00:04:22,000 and left her naked body in this barrel. 82 00:04:22,174 --> 00:04:25,090 ♪ 83 00:04:27,571 --> 00:04:29,181 So two days later, 84 00:04:29,312 --> 00:04:31,966 Ranger James Holland calls back, 85 00:04:32,053 --> 00:04:35,405 and he's like, "We got her. 86 00:04:35,535 --> 00:04:38,059 We got the victim in Omaha," 87 00:04:38,146 --> 00:04:39,974 the one from my confession. 88 00:04:40,105 --> 00:04:42,673 That was the information that identified her, 89 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,850 and it was Agatha White Buffalo. 90 00:04:45,980 --> 00:04:48,331 [news reporter] In 1973, 91 00:04:48,461 --> 00:04:50,724 the body of the 34-year-old was found 92 00:04:50,855 --> 00:04:51,899 stuffed in one of these barrels 93 00:04:52,030 --> 00:04:53,771 at 27th and N. 94 00:04:53,901 --> 00:04:55,947 She had been strangled to death. 95 00:04:56,077 --> 00:04:59,037 Her murder is no longer a cold case. 96 00:04:59,167 --> 00:05:02,083 Omaha police tell me it's officially classified now 97 00:05:02,214 --> 00:05:04,390 as exceptionally clear. 98 00:05:05,304 --> 00:05:06,653 [Jillian] Initially, I wasn't trying 99 00:05:06,784 --> 00:05:09,352 to solve a murder. 100 00:05:09,482 --> 00:05:11,615 I just remember walking outside and saying, 101 00:05:11,745 --> 00:05:13,791 you know, like, "I think maybe I just did the best thing 102 00:05:13,921 --> 00:05:16,097 I've ever done in my life." 103 00:05:17,664 --> 00:05:21,407 And I haven't been able to stop since. 104 00:05:21,581 --> 00:05:24,715 ♪ 105 00:05:24,845 --> 00:05:26,586 [news reporter] The FBI calls Samuel Little 106 00:05:26,717 --> 00:05:29,110 America's most prolific serial killer. 107 00:05:29,241 --> 00:05:31,983 [Sam] If you want me to tell my secrets to you, 108 00:05:32,113 --> 00:05:34,377 come down here and look me in my eye 109 00:05:34,507 --> 00:05:36,335 while I do. 110 00:05:36,466 --> 00:05:39,164 [Jillian] My deal with the devil is, 111 00:05:39,294 --> 00:05:43,342 "You will not die alone if you tell me the truth." 112 00:05:43,429 --> 00:05:44,648 [Sam] I'm not gonna admit to those girls. 113 00:05:44,778 --> 00:05:46,345 [Jillian] I don't believe you. 114 00:05:46,476 --> 00:05:48,869 So you tell me the truth right now. 115 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,437 [news reporter] Little strangled 93 victims 116 00:05:51,568 --> 00:05:54,179 between 1970 and 2005. 117 00:05:54,266 --> 00:05:55,876 [Jillian] He was tried and got off 118 00:05:56,007 --> 00:05:57,574 again and again and again. 119 00:05:57,704 --> 00:05:59,097 [news reporter] Investigators believe 120 00:05:59,227 --> 00:06:00,620 that Samuel Little killed more people 121 00:06:00,751 --> 00:06:02,796 than serial killers Ted Bundy, 122 00:06:02,883 --> 00:06:05,973 John Wayne Gacy, and Jeffrey Dahmer combined. 123 00:06:06,887 --> 00:06:07,888 [Jillian] If you weren't locked up, 124 00:06:08,019 --> 00:06:10,456 I'd probably be dead by now. 125 00:06:10,587 --> 00:06:12,458 [Sam] You're right. 126 00:06:18,377 --> 00:06:21,119 [footsteps clomping] 127 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,605 [Jillian] These are all drawings 128 00:06:28,735 --> 00:06:30,955 that Sam has sent me. 129 00:06:35,438 --> 00:06:39,659 These are his murder victims. 130 00:06:39,790 --> 00:06:42,923 [melancholy string music] 131 00:06:43,054 --> 00:06:46,449 Sam learned to draw in the Ohio State Reformatory, 132 00:06:46,579 --> 00:06:48,407 where he was incarcerated 133 00:06:48,538 --> 00:06:52,150 when he was 17 years old. 134 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:55,849 It's interesting to think about how you can have 135 00:06:55,980 --> 00:07:00,593 the kind of close observation that art requires 136 00:07:00,724 --> 00:07:05,250 and then also... the complete disregard 137 00:07:05,380 --> 00:07:08,862 for human life that murder requires. 138 00:07:10,081 --> 00:07:14,694 You can definitely see his art changing over time. 139 00:07:14,825 --> 00:07:18,655 I guess my hope is that they're getting more... 140 00:07:18,785 --> 00:07:20,657 true to life, 141 00:07:20,787 --> 00:07:22,746 because then they might be matched 142 00:07:22,833 --> 00:07:25,009 to an unidentified victim. 143 00:07:25,183 --> 00:07:28,229 ♪ 144 00:07:28,316 --> 00:07:30,275 You know, these are the ones I keep in my office... 145 00:07:30,449 --> 00:07:32,843 ♪ 146 00:07:32,973 --> 00:07:37,761 ...as sort of references and, um, inspiration 147 00:07:37,848 --> 00:07:39,676 to keep going 148 00:07:39,806 --> 00:07:42,330 investigating these murders. 149 00:07:43,854 --> 00:07:47,466 These are not curiosities to me. 150 00:07:47,597 --> 00:07:50,034 These are lives 151 00:07:50,164 --> 00:07:51,992 that were lost. 152 00:07:55,213 --> 00:07:56,780 This is Audrey, 153 00:07:56,910 --> 00:07:59,391 one of Sam's victims from Los Angeles. 154 00:08:00,566 --> 00:08:03,917 I have a relationship with a lot of the victims, 155 00:08:04,048 --> 00:08:07,312 but I most relate to Audrey 156 00:08:07,442 --> 00:08:10,533 and think that that could've been me. 157 00:08:10,663 --> 00:08:14,014 Audrey was really artistic. 158 00:08:14,145 --> 00:08:17,017 She was, like, a very loud, bright personality, 159 00:08:17,148 --> 00:08:20,978 and so when I want... 160 00:08:21,065 --> 00:08:24,111 kind of creative motivation or inspiration, 161 00:08:24,198 --> 00:08:25,373 I'll talk to Audrey. 162 00:08:25,504 --> 00:08:27,419 [dramatic music] 163 00:08:27,550 --> 00:08:29,987 This is a victim of Sam's 164 00:08:30,117 --> 00:08:34,382 that is still unidentified. 165 00:08:34,513 --> 00:08:37,211 He often draws petechial hemorrhaging 166 00:08:37,342 --> 00:08:38,473 in their eyes, 167 00:08:38,604 --> 00:08:40,693 which is... 168 00:08:40,824 --> 00:08:42,869 what happens when you're strangled, 169 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,697 broken blood vessels in your eyes. 170 00:08:44,871 --> 00:08:48,005 ♪ 171 00:08:48,135 --> 00:08:51,051 I write a lot from the victims' perspectives, 172 00:08:51,182 --> 00:08:54,794 which I feel is taking a lot of license, 173 00:08:54,881 --> 00:08:58,450 and I wanna be very mindful of that. 174 00:08:58,581 --> 00:09:02,672 I really try to... 175 00:09:02,759 --> 00:09:04,543 ask their permission. 176 00:09:04,717 --> 00:09:07,241 ♪ 177 00:09:07,372 --> 00:09:09,417 And I ask, 178 00:09:09,548 --> 00:09:10,897 "Can I tell your story, 179 00:09:11,028 --> 00:09:12,638 and will you help me?" 180 00:09:13,726 --> 00:09:15,119 What I like to imagine 181 00:09:15,249 --> 00:09:17,251 is that Sam is no longer 182 00:09:17,382 --> 00:09:19,602 the only person 183 00:09:19,732 --> 00:09:22,953 who witnessed those moments. 184 00:09:23,083 --> 00:09:26,870 I don't want them to... 185 00:09:27,044 --> 00:09:30,134 ♪ 186 00:09:30,264 --> 00:09:32,397 ...just have been alone with a monster, you know? 187 00:09:32,571 --> 00:09:35,443 ♪ 188 00:09:35,530 --> 00:09:37,532 This is one of his favorite victims. 189 00:09:37,663 --> 00:09:39,839 I don't think he even knows 190 00:09:39,926 --> 00:09:43,626 why certain victims stay with him more than others, 191 00:09:43,756 --> 00:09:45,932 or he-he goes over and over and over them 192 00:09:46,063 --> 00:09:47,978 again in his mind 193 00:09:48,108 --> 00:09:50,502 while he's lying there in his cell. 194 00:09:50,633 --> 00:09:54,767 This reads, "Sam kill me but he knows I love him. 195 00:09:54,898 --> 00:09:56,290 Ms. Sam." 196 00:09:56,421 --> 00:09:57,944 [eerie music] 197 00:09:58,075 --> 00:09:59,337 And then this reads, 198 00:09:59,467 --> 00:10:01,121 "Your sister Jillian. 199 00:10:01,252 --> 00:10:04,124 My dream. Mr. Sam." 200 00:10:04,255 --> 00:10:07,301 There's very little that does not creep me out 201 00:10:07,432 --> 00:10:08,607 about any of this. 202 00:10:08,738 --> 00:10:10,783 Yeah, he believes 203 00:10:10,914 --> 00:10:12,742 that I'm... 204 00:10:12,829 --> 00:10:14,395 basically one of his victims, 205 00:10:14,526 --> 00:10:18,182 like I'm a living, breathing victim, 206 00:10:18,312 --> 00:10:21,881 but essentially, I belong to him. 207 00:10:22,012 --> 00:10:23,709 He possesses me 208 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,276 the same way that he feels, 209 00:10:25,363 --> 00:10:27,191 uh, about his victims, 210 00:10:27,321 --> 00:10:31,151 and, um, that we're all gonna be together again 211 00:10:31,282 --> 00:10:32,370 in heaven. 212 00:10:32,544 --> 00:10:34,328 ♪ 213 00:10:34,459 --> 00:10:36,940 [sighs] 214 00:10:37,114 --> 00:10:39,029 ♪ 215 00:10:46,210 --> 00:10:48,125 [Jillian] You feel that God has forgiven you? 216 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:04,750 [Jillian] Right. 217 00:11:06,404 --> 00:11:08,014 [line beeps] 218 00:11:08,145 --> 00:11:10,190 [sighs] Jesus. 219 00:11:10,364 --> 00:11:13,454 ♪ 220 00:11:13,585 --> 00:11:16,109 How did I get the ear of a serial killer? 221 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:17,632 I listened to him. 222 00:11:17,807 --> 00:11:19,547 ♪ 223 00:11:19,678 --> 00:11:21,071 I told him I cared. 224 00:11:21,201 --> 00:11:23,029 I told him I wouldn't judge him. 225 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,510 I told him I wouldn't leave him. 226 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,468 I said, "Give it to me straight, 227 00:11:27,599 --> 00:11:28,992 "give me everything, 228 00:11:29,122 --> 00:11:31,168 "and I'll take your calls, 229 00:11:31,255 --> 00:11:33,126 "and I'll write you letters, 230 00:11:33,257 --> 00:11:35,694 and I'll be your friend." 231 00:11:35,825 --> 00:11:38,218 And that's how I got him to talk. 232 00:11:38,305 --> 00:11:40,264 ♪ 233 00:11:45,922 --> 00:11:47,227 [Jillian] Yeah, tell me. 234 00:11:51,928 --> 00:11:53,016 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 235 00:12:16,300 --> 00:12:17,170 [Jillian] Right. 236 00:12:20,130 --> 00:12:21,218 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 237 00:12:26,223 --> 00:12:29,487 I'm in this very unusual position 238 00:12:29,617 --> 00:12:33,317 because most people don't get to interview 239 00:12:33,404 --> 00:12:35,449 someone of this... 240 00:12:35,580 --> 00:12:39,149 degree of perniciousness 241 00:12:39,236 --> 00:12:41,107 and evil 242 00:12:41,238 --> 00:12:44,154 for this long of a time, you know? 243 00:12:44,284 --> 00:12:48,245 It's a-it's, like, a two-year interview process we've had 244 00:12:48,375 --> 00:12:50,073 since I started working on this project. 245 00:12:50,247 --> 00:12:53,119 ♪ 246 00:12:53,903 --> 00:12:56,166 [line trills] 247 00:12:56,296 --> 00:12:57,384 [Jill] This is Jill. 248 00:12:57,515 --> 00:12:58,821 Hey, Jill. It's Jillian. 249 00:12:58,951 --> 00:13:00,518 -How are you? -[Jill] Good. 250 00:13:02,737 --> 00:13:05,610 We're talking about titles and cover. 251 00:13:06,437 --> 00:13:08,482 [Jill] 252 00:13:13,879 --> 00:13:15,620 -Uh-huh. -[Jill] 253 00:13:17,187 --> 00:13:18,623 -[Jillian] Uh-huh. -[Jill] 254 00:13:28,981 --> 00:13:32,158 Yeah. That's part of it. 255 00:13:32,245 --> 00:13:34,421 I definitely grapple with themes 256 00:13:34,508 --> 00:13:37,729 of, you know, what is monstrous and what is human. 257 00:13:37,816 --> 00:13:40,210 ♪ 258 00:13:40,340 --> 00:13:42,690 I want to understand 259 00:13:42,821 --> 00:13:46,390 this kind of aberrant behavior. 260 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,871 I wanna know his story, 261 00:13:49,001 --> 00:13:51,786 what made him who he is. 262 00:13:52,831 --> 00:13:55,399 Sam, will you tell me about your childhood? 263 00:13:56,487 --> 00:13:57,618 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 264 00:13:57,749 --> 00:13:59,664 Why don't we start that story 265 00:13:59,751 --> 00:14:00,883 from the beginning? 266 00:14:12,198 --> 00:14:13,025 [Jillian] Mm. 267 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:20,424 [Jillian] How? 268 00:14:25,255 --> 00:14:26,082 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 269 00:14:31,087 --> 00:14:32,131 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 270 00:14:55,198 --> 00:14:57,983 [melancholy music] 271 00:14:58,157 --> 00:14:59,724 ♪ 272 00:14:59,811 --> 00:15:02,292 [Jillian] Samuel Little was born in 1940 273 00:15:02,422 --> 00:15:05,338 in Reynolds, Georgia, which is a rural town 274 00:15:05,469 --> 00:15:06,774 in the South. 275 00:15:06,861 --> 00:15:08,428 ♪ 276 00:15:08,559 --> 00:15:10,430 Sam Little's mother, Bessie Mae Little, 277 00:15:10,561 --> 00:15:12,693 was 16 years old, 278 00:15:12,824 --> 00:15:14,739 and she had an affair 279 00:15:14,826 --> 00:15:16,697 with Paul McDowell, 280 00:15:16,828 --> 00:15:18,873 who was a little bit older. 281 00:15:19,048 --> 00:15:21,093 ♪ 282 00:15:21,224 --> 00:15:23,052 And she wound up pregnant with Sam. 283 00:15:23,226 --> 00:15:26,185 ♪ 284 00:15:26,272 --> 00:15:27,708 Sam's mother, Bessie Mae, 285 00:15:27,839 --> 00:15:30,581 was raised by her grandmother, 286 00:15:30,711 --> 00:15:32,322 Josephine, 287 00:15:32,452 --> 00:15:35,978 because her mother died in childbirth, 288 00:15:36,108 --> 00:15:39,459 and so this grandmother was furious 289 00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:42,941 about Bessie Mae having a baby. 290 00:15:43,072 --> 00:15:45,161 [thunder booming] 291 00:15:45,291 --> 00:15:47,554 [rain pattering] 292 00:15:47,685 --> 00:15:50,035 When Sam was somewhere 293 00:15:50,166 --> 00:15:52,342 between six and nine months old, 294 00:15:52,472 --> 00:15:55,258 Josephine put her granddaughter out and said, 295 00:15:55,388 --> 00:15:59,827 "You need to... get rid of this boy. 296 00:15:59,958 --> 00:16:03,614 Just leave him by the side of the road." 297 00:16:03,788 --> 00:16:05,746 ♪ 298 00:16:23,112 --> 00:16:24,374 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 299 00:16:26,376 --> 00:16:28,160 [Jillian] And eventually, 300 00:16:28,291 --> 00:16:31,033 she just got too despondent and exhausted 301 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,296 and collapsed. 302 00:16:33,470 --> 00:16:35,385 ♪ 303 00:16:35,515 --> 00:16:38,127 Bessie Mae crawled to the side of the road, 304 00:16:38,257 --> 00:16:39,737 laid her baby down in the mud, 305 00:16:39,867 --> 00:16:42,348 eyes to God, and prayed. 306 00:16:42,479 --> 00:16:44,481 "Jesus," she said, 307 00:16:44,611 --> 00:16:46,787 "please protect this child." 308 00:16:46,961 --> 00:16:49,834 ♪ 309 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:58,190 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 310 00:17:02,542 --> 00:17:06,590 [Jillian] There was a peddler with a goat cart 311 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,679 who everyone knew in the town. 312 00:17:25,217 --> 00:17:26,914 [Jillian] And everybody knew 313 00:17:27,045 --> 00:17:30,135 that Bessie Mae's child was Paul's child, 314 00:17:30,266 --> 00:17:32,442 and so this peddler 315 00:17:32,572 --> 00:17:34,487 picked Sam up 316 00:17:34,618 --> 00:17:37,621 and took him to his paternal grandparents, 317 00:17:37,751 --> 00:17:40,493 and so Fanny and Henry took him in. 318 00:17:40,667 --> 00:17:43,583 ♪ 319 00:17:43,714 --> 00:17:47,326 Sam was taken by his grandparents 320 00:17:47,457 --> 00:17:49,502 to Lorain, Ohio, 321 00:17:49,633 --> 00:17:51,504 and raised by them 322 00:17:51,591 --> 00:17:56,074 as if he was their son. 323 00:18:17,965 --> 00:18:19,402 [music intensifies] 324 00:18:34,765 --> 00:18:35,635 [Jillian] Right. 325 00:18:45,515 --> 00:18:46,429 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 326 00:19:10,322 --> 00:19:12,455 [suspenseful music] 327 00:19:20,289 --> 00:19:23,205 ♪ 328 00:19:26,947 --> 00:19:28,775 [Jillian] When he was 13 years old, 329 00:19:28,906 --> 00:19:31,735 he ran away from home, 330 00:19:31,865 --> 00:19:35,521 and he saw these bicycles lined up in a row, 331 00:19:35,652 --> 00:19:38,481 and that was his first real time 332 00:19:38,611 --> 00:19:39,743 he stole something. 333 00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:41,266 ♪ 334 00:19:41,397 --> 00:19:42,920 They arrested him, 335 00:19:43,007 --> 00:19:45,575 and based on that, 336 00:19:45,705 --> 00:19:49,143 he wound up in the Boys' Industrial School. 337 00:19:49,274 --> 00:19:51,798 So the Boys' Industrial School 338 00:19:51,929 --> 00:19:55,149 was like the reformatory school. 339 00:19:55,976 --> 00:19:58,457 Sam was in there for 19 months. 340 00:19:58,588 --> 00:20:02,069 It was historically a very abusive environment. 341 00:20:02,156 --> 00:20:04,246 [disquieting music] 342 00:20:09,207 --> 00:20:10,077 [Jillian] Right. 343 00:20:15,822 --> 00:20:17,259 [Jillian] Each night, the younger boys 344 00:20:17,389 --> 00:20:21,001 kept their eyes shut tight and prayed, 345 00:20:21,132 --> 00:20:23,830 listening to the footsteps of the older boys 346 00:20:23,961 --> 00:20:27,573 strolling the rows of bunks. 347 00:20:27,704 --> 00:20:29,445 They knew the next sound they heard 348 00:20:29,575 --> 00:20:31,925 would be screams. 349 00:20:32,056 --> 00:20:34,319 If on some nights, those screams 350 00:20:34,450 --> 00:20:36,930 sounded suspiciously like Sam's, 351 00:20:37,061 --> 00:20:39,629 he knew it was never him. 352 00:20:39,759 --> 00:20:41,979 It was understood 353 00:20:42,109 --> 00:20:43,937 that even if it was you, 354 00:20:44,068 --> 00:20:45,765 you never admitted to it. 355 00:20:45,939 --> 00:20:48,855 ♪ 356 00:21:25,065 --> 00:21:27,938 [suspenseful music] 357 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:49,351 [Jillian] Right. 358 00:22:01,537 --> 00:22:04,540 ♪ 359 00:22:04,670 --> 00:22:06,672 [Jillian] Sam has a very... 360 00:22:06,803 --> 00:22:10,197 vehement victim narrative 361 00:22:10,328 --> 00:22:12,069 about his life. 362 00:22:12,199 --> 00:22:14,376 He really wanted to share that with me. 363 00:22:14,506 --> 00:22:17,944 I just said, "I would like to listen, 364 00:22:18,075 --> 00:22:20,164 "I would like to not judge you, 365 00:22:20,294 --> 00:22:22,558 and I just wanna understand." 366 00:22:22,688 --> 00:22:25,299 [uneasy music] 367 00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:29,347 During the time that Sam was in the Ohio State Reformatory 368 00:22:29,478 --> 00:22:31,567 in the early '60s, 369 00:22:31,697 --> 00:22:33,525 his mother, Bessie Mae, 370 00:22:33,656 --> 00:22:36,093 sent him a letter. 371 00:22:36,223 --> 00:22:39,836 His mother, who he had not seen since he was four, 372 00:22:39,923 --> 00:22:43,622 wrote him and said, "I'm living in Miami. 373 00:22:43,753 --> 00:22:46,408 "I'm living in a place called Coconut Grove. 374 00:22:46,538 --> 00:22:48,148 "It's fantastic. 375 00:22:48,279 --> 00:22:51,543 "The sun shines all the time. 376 00:22:51,674 --> 00:22:53,153 "I have money. 377 00:22:53,284 --> 00:22:56,374 Won't you come see me, my one and only son?" 378 00:23:01,684 --> 00:23:02,598 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 379 00:23:05,601 --> 00:23:06,471 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 380 00:23:13,347 --> 00:23:14,261 [Jillian laughs] 381 00:23:22,966 --> 00:23:25,403 [Jillian] Sam moved in with his mother, 382 00:23:25,534 --> 00:23:27,710 who had sort of a rooming house. 383 00:23:27,884 --> 00:23:30,364 ♪ 384 00:23:44,030 --> 00:23:45,423 [Jillian] That's a little weird, Sam. 385 00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:47,033 [laughs] 386 00:23:50,689 --> 00:23:53,692 ♪ 387 00:23:53,823 --> 00:23:56,260 His mother wanted to make sure 388 00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:58,349 he was having sex 389 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,351 so she would have a grandchild, 390 00:24:00,482 --> 00:24:02,440 because she never got to raise him. 391 00:24:02,571 --> 00:24:04,834 When that wasn't working, 392 00:24:04,964 --> 00:24:08,968 she would... crawl into bed with him at night, 393 00:24:09,055 --> 00:24:11,971 and she would have him 394 00:24:12,102 --> 00:24:16,193 suck on her breast as an adult man. 395 00:24:32,122 --> 00:24:33,079 Wow. 396 00:24:45,570 --> 00:24:47,311 Whew! 397 00:24:47,441 --> 00:24:50,923 She was sexually inappropriate with him, 398 00:24:51,054 --> 00:24:55,232 but he'll apologize for her until the end of time. 399 00:24:55,362 --> 00:24:57,277 You're talking about Bessie Mae? 400 00:24:57,408 --> 00:24:59,236 Did it make you angry, 401 00:24:59,366 --> 00:25:00,890 or did it make you aroused? 402 00:25:07,287 --> 00:25:10,116 [somber music] 403 00:25:10,290 --> 00:25:11,422 ♪ 404 00:25:11,553 --> 00:25:13,250 [Jillian] Sam told me 405 00:25:13,380 --> 00:25:15,034 he had been thinking about killing women 406 00:25:15,165 --> 00:25:16,427 for a long time. 407 00:25:18,734 --> 00:25:21,954 But it wasn't until he moved in with his mother 408 00:25:22,041 --> 00:25:23,826 that he finally, 409 00:25:23,956 --> 00:25:27,438 after many years of thinking about it... 410 00:25:29,048 --> 00:25:30,354 ...killed a woman. 411 00:25:30,528 --> 00:25:32,095 ♪ 412 00:25:32,225 --> 00:25:35,185 He was like, 413 00:25:35,315 --> 00:25:36,752 "You wanna know about the first one?" 414 00:25:36,926 --> 00:25:38,144 ♪ 415 00:25:38,275 --> 00:25:40,059 And I was like, "Yeah. 416 00:25:40,190 --> 00:25:41,713 I wanna know about the first one." 417 00:25:41,887 --> 00:25:43,367 ♪ 418 00:25:52,289 --> 00:25:53,116 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 419 00:26:26,584 --> 00:26:28,151 [dramatic music] 420 00:26:28,281 --> 00:26:30,414 [Jillian] How do you build a psychopath? 421 00:26:30,501 --> 00:26:32,895 How do you build a serial killer? 422 00:26:33,025 --> 00:26:35,201 I can't tell you 423 00:26:35,288 --> 00:26:39,466 what makes one person go through all these things 424 00:26:39,597 --> 00:26:42,992 and turn into somebody 425 00:26:43,122 --> 00:26:45,647 who kills women. 426 00:26:45,777 --> 00:26:48,345 I'm not a neuroscientist. 427 00:26:48,475 --> 00:26:52,349 But my understanding is that a serial killer 428 00:26:52,479 --> 00:26:56,832 is a perfect storm of genetics and environment. 429 00:26:57,006 --> 00:26:59,138 ♪ 430 00:26:59,269 --> 00:27:02,359 The first murder happened before Sam's mom died, 431 00:27:02,446 --> 00:27:04,883 and then after he lost his mother, 432 00:27:05,014 --> 00:27:08,278 it is the ultimate abandonment, 433 00:27:08,408 --> 00:27:10,889 and he goes fully off the rails, 434 00:27:10,976 --> 00:27:15,024 and he went on a rageful killing spree. 435 00:27:23,467 --> 00:27:25,512 [Jillian] It was like the last thread 436 00:27:25,643 --> 00:27:28,341 that tied him to his mom snapped 437 00:27:28,472 --> 00:27:30,909 and he was free of all his guilt 438 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,738 and obligation of trying 439 00:27:33,869 --> 00:27:36,567 to do the right thing by his family, 440 00:27:36,698 --> 00:27:39,309 free to be who he truly was. 441 00:27:41,006 --> 00:27:43,530 Now there would be no stopping him. 442 00:27:43,617 --> 00:27:46,490 [menacing music] 443 00:27:46,664 --> 00:27:49,928 ♪ 444 00:27:50,450 --> 00:27:53,323 My job is to enter a world 445 00:27:53,453 --> 00:27:55,455 and try to imagine myself 446 00:27:55,586 --> 00:27:57,414 into other people's minds 447 00:27:57,544 --> 00:27:59,808 and other people's lives. 448 00:27:59,938 --> 00:28:02,636 But it does seem like a tremendous responsibility 449 00:28:02,767 --> 00:28:05,291 when those people are no longer alive. 450 00:28:05,422 --> 00:28:08,164 [desolate music] 451 00:28:08,338 --> 00:28:09,905 ♪ 452 00:28:10,035 --> 00:28:11,341 I don't only wanna know 453 00:28:11,428 --> 00:28:13,212 what Sam has to say 454 00:28:13,343 --> 00:28:15,432 about the women he killed. 455 00:28:15,562 --> 00:28:19,088 I have a drive to really understand 456 00:28:19,218 --> 00:28:21,438 these women-- what they were like, 457 00:28:21,568 --> 00:28:24,615 what they dreamed of, who they truly were-- 458 00:28:24,746 --> 00:28:27,444 and I wanna know about their families, 459 00:28:27,574 --> 00:28:30,882 because they are also Sam's victims. 460 00:28:31,056 --> 00:28:33,319 ♪ 461 00:28:33,450 --> 00:28:34,668 [children shouting] 462 00:28:38,107 --> 00:28:40,109 [Pearl] My mother, Audrey, 463 00:28:40,239 --> 00:28:42,851 fought for her life. 464 00:28:42,938 --> 00:28:44,896 I always think about, like, what she went through, 465 00:28:44,983 --> 00:28:47,725 what-what that was like for her. 466 00:28:47,856 --> 00:28:49,292 What else I got in here? 467 00:28:49,379 --> 00:28:51,511 [somber music] 468 00:28:51,598 --> 00:28:53,339 My name is Pearl, 469 00:28:53,470 --> 00:28:57,474 and I am Audrey Nelson's daughter. 470 00:28:57,561 --> 00:28:59,258 Samuel Little murdered my mother 471 00:28:59,389 --> 00:29:00,738 in Los Angeles. 472 00:29:02,218 --> 00:29:04,960 These are a couple little stuffed animals 473 00:29:05,090 --> 00:29:06,831 that my mom tried to send to me 474 00:29:06,962 --> 00:29:09,312 through my Uncle Bill 475 00:29:09,399 --> 00:29:12,619 so I would know that, uh, she was thinking of me. 476 00:29:12,750 --> 00:29:15,666 [Jillian] The multigenerational ripple effect 477 00:29:15,797 --> 00:29:18,756 of unsolved cold case murder 478 00:29:18,887 --> 00:29:20,932 is massive. 479 00:29:21,063 --> 00:29:23,326 For many of these families, 480 00:29:23,413 --> 00:29:25,763 I'm the first person they've told this story to, 481 00:29:25,894 --> 00:29:28,331 so I feel like it's my responsibility 482 00:29:28,418 --> 00:29:30,463 to hold their pain and listen to them. 483 00:29:30,637 --> 00:29:32,465 ♪ 484 00:29:32,596 --> 00:29:35,773 All those years not knowing what happened 485 00:29:35,904 --> 00:29:37,819 to my mother, Audrey, 486 00:29:37,949 --> 00:29:40,473 was very difficult. 487 00:29:40,604 --> 00:29:42,693 It's something that you really put 488 00:29:42,780 --> 00:29:44,521 deep inside of you, 489 00:29:44,651 --> 00:29:47,393 and it's terrible that you can't share that. 490 00:29:47,567 --> 00:29:49,700 ♪ 491 00:29:49,831 --> 00:29:52,311 And so one day, I get a message 492 00:29:52,442 --> 00:29:55,227 from a lady named Jillian Lauren, 493 00:29:55,314 --> 00:29:59,710 and she says that she was gonna be writing a book, 494 00:29:59,841 --> 00:30:03,235 and she wanted to know about my mother, Audrey. 495 00:30:04,019 --> 00:30:06,760 Jillian wanted to really shine some light 496 00:30:06,891 --> 00:30:08,414 -on the victims... -[knocking] 497 00:30:08,545 --> 00:30:10,286 ...and tell their story, 498 00:30:10,416 --> 00:30:11,809 and I said, "Yeah, come on up." 499 00:30:11,940 --> 00:30:14,551 [Jillian] Oh, gosh, hi! [laughs] 500 00:30:14,638 --> 00:30:15,682 How are you? 501 00:30:15,813 --> 00:30:16,814 [Pearl] Good. How are you? 502 00:30:16,945 --> 00:30:18,294 Good. 503 00:30:19,034 --> 00:30:20,992 [Pearl] These are the treasures that I have 504 00:30:21,123 --> 00:30:22,689 of my mother. 505 00:30:22,820 --> 00:30:24,213 This'll kind of be nice 506 00:30:24,343 --> 00:30:25,692 for you to see. 507 00:30:25,823 --> 00:30:28,347 Where's this photo from? 508 00:30:28,434 --> 00:30:30,349 Is that her high school yearbook? 509 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:31,960 [Pearl] So this is what she looked like 510 00:30:32,090 --> 00:30:34,223 when she was 17. 511 00:30:35,050 --> 00:30:36,486 This is 1971... 512 00:30:36,616 --> 00:30:38,531 [Jillian] Mm. 513 00:30:38,662 --> 00:30:39,793 ...five years before I was born. 514 00:30:39,924 --> 00:30:41,230 Wow. 515 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,232 [Pearl] I know. 516 00:30:43,362 --> 00:30:45,625 Look at her, so cute in her bikini and... 517 00:30:45,756 --> 00:30:47,845 just feeding those birds like that. 518 00:30:47,976 --> 00:30:49,803 She was so happy. 519 00:30:49,978 --> 00:30:52,415 ♪ 520 00:30:52,545 --> 00:30:55,679 This is the only photograph that I have 521 00:30:55,809 --> 00:30:57,768 of my mother holding me. 522 00:30:57,855 --> 00:31:00,814 This is the most precious photograph 523 00:31:00,902 --> 00:31:02,468 in my entire life. 524 00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:05,471 She looks really proud. 525 00:31:06,603 --> 00:31:08,997 [Pearl] I was with my mother for a whole year 526 00:31:09,084 --> 00:31:12,565 before, um, she got arrested 527 00:31:12,696 --> 00:31:15,699 and Social Services said 528 00:31:15,786 --> 00:31:19,877 that, um, she wasn't fit to take care of me 529 00:31:19,964 --> 00:31:22,749 because of the life that she'd been living, 530 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,013 because of the prostitution. 531 00:31:25,187 --> 00:31:26,623 ♪ 532 00:31:26,753 --> 00:31:29,756 So I was adopted 533 00:31:29,887 --> 00:31:33,456 by my grandmother and grandfather. 534 00:31:33,586 --> 00:31:37,329 But my mother did not ever wanna lose me. 535 00:31:38,852 --> 00:31:41,725 [eerie music] 536 00:31:41,812 --> 00:31:44,554 ♪ 537 00:31:44,684 --> 00:31:45,903 [sighing] Oh. 538 00:31:46,034 --> 00:31:49,515 Eighth grade school year, 539 00:31:49,646 --> 00:31:52,997 I was, uh, hanging my clothes 540 00:31:53,128 --> 00:31:55,304 up to dry on the porch, 541 00:31:55,434 --> 00:31:57,175 and the police... 542 00:31:57,306 --> 00:32:00,091 show up on the-on the doorstep, 543 00:32:00,222 --> 00:32:03,268 and Grandmother was like, 544 00:32:03,399 --> 00:32:04,617 "Oh, go to your room. Go to your room." 545 00:32:04,704 --> 00:32:05,749 I was like... 546 00:32:05,879 --> 00:32:07,403 You know, I just kind of hid. 547 00:32:07,490 --> 00:32:09,492 I just kind of hid and listened. 548 00:32:09,622 --> 00:32:11,059 They found out that she was just-- 549 00:32:11,189 --> 00:32:14,062 she was murdered in Los Angeles. 550 00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:15,759 They didn't catch the person 551 00:32:15,889 --> 00:32:17,543 or anything. 552 00:32:17,674 --> 00:32:19,415 My mother was gone, 553 00:32:19,545 --> 00:32:22,200 and all my chances of ever being with her again 554 00:32:22,287 --> 00:32:23,462 completely vanished. 555 00:32:25,899 --> 00:32:28,337 [sighs] 556 00:32:28,467 --> 00:32:29,816 [dramatic music] 557 00:32:29,947 --> 00:32:31,296 [news reporter] Investigators say 558 00:32:31,427 --> 00:32:33,255 this is the face of a serial killer, 559 00:32:33,385 --> 00:32:35,822 one who's managed to elude capture for years. 560 00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:37,737 [news reporter] Seventy-two-year-old 561 00:32:37,868 --> 00:32:39,522 Samuel Little is now charged with three cold case murders 562 00:32:39,652 --> 00:32:41,524 in California. 563 00:32:42,655 --> 00:32:44,309 [Pearl] I could never forget that moment 564 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,572 when, in 2014, 565 00:32:46,659 --> 00:32:48,487 I received a phone call 566 00:32:48,574 --> 00:32:51,142 from a detective in Los Angeles, 567 00:32:51,273 --> 00:32:53,014 Mitzi Roberts. 568 00:32:53,144 --> 00:32:55,668 And I said, um, "You caught the guy." 569 00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:58,106 She's like, "Yeah. We caught the guy." 570 00:32:58,236 --> 00:33:00,586 He's definitely the one that 571 00:33:00,717 --> 00:33:02,066 not only murdered my mother, 572 00:33:02,153 --> 00:33:05,243 but there is a couple other ladies. 573 00:33:05,374 --> 00:33:07,376 [news reporter] The victims were all mothers 574 00:33:07,506 --> 00:33:10,248 leading what police call high-risk lifestyles. 575 00:33:10,335 --> 00:33:11,684 [Mitzi] He just seemed to always be 576 00:33:11,815 --> 00:33:13,556 one step ahead of the law. 577 00:33:13,686 --> 00:33:15,297 Well, I know for sure it's-it's-- 578 00:33:15,427 --> 00:33:16,950 that's not the way it's gonna be this time. 579 00:33:17,125 --> 00:33:19,997 ♪ 580 00:33:23,653 --> 00:33:26,525 The months in between arrest and trial 581 00:33:26,656 --> 00:33:30,703 are just filled with preparing the best case 582 00:33:30,834 --> 00:33:34,446 for the murders of Audrey Nelson, 583 00:33:34,577 --> 00:33:38,015 Guadalupe Apodaca, 584 00:33:38,146 --> 00:33:40,365 and Carol Alford 585 00:33:40,496 --> 00:33:42,846 and not just rely on the DNA 586 00:33:42,976 --> 00:33:44,717 but to put together a case 587 00:33:44,848 --> 00:33:47,372 that was so strong 588 00:33:47,503 --> 00:33:50,201 that we would leave the jury... [laughs] 589 00:33:50,332 --> 00:33:53,335 ...with no other choice but conviction. 590 00:33:53,465 --> 00:33:57,556 [Beth] No one's ever attempted to put it all together before, 591 00:33:57,687 --> 00:34:01,082 and so we were very immersed in... 592 00:34:01,212 --> 00:34:03,127 all of his prior crimes, 593 00:34:03,258 --> 00:34:07,262 reviewing files and talking to law enforcement, 594 00:34:07,392 --> 00:34:10,221 uh, and prosecutors across the country 595 00:34:10,308 --> 00:34:12,832 and digging up surviving victims 596 00:34:12,963 --> 00:34:15,096 so that the jury had as many of those puzzle pieces 597 00:34:15,226 --> 00:34:16,009 as they could. 598 00:34:16,184 --> 00:34:18,925 ♪ 599 00:34:19,056 --> 00:34:20,275 [Wayne] I remember that I got the call 600 00:34:20,405 --> 00:34:22,451 from LAPD Homicide. 601 00:34:22,581 --> 00:34:24,279 They said, "Detective Sergeant Spees?" 602 00:34:24,409 --> 00:34:28,457 and said, uh, "Thirty years ago, 603 00:34:28,587 --> 00:34:30,850 you arrested a guy for rape." 604 00:34:30,937 --> 00:34:33,462 And I said, "Sam Little." 605 00:34:33,592 --> 00:34:34,811 She said, "Do you remember the case?" 606 00:34:34,941 --> 00:34:36,769 and I said, "Absolutely. 607 00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:39,990 The Laurie Barros and Tonya Jackson case." 608 00:34:40,121 --> 00:34:42,949 She says, "Well, we have him on three homicides," 609 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,865 and I was-I was, you know, blown away. 610 00:34:45,996 --> 00:34:48,172 And she goes, "And we made him on the DNA, 611 00:34:48,303 --> 00:34:50,131 the DNA that you guys collected." 612 00:34:50,261 --> 00:34:53,177 She was a great detective, uh, Mitzi Roberts, 613 00:34:53,264 --> 00:34:54,657 and, uh, you know, she said, 614 00:34:54,744 --> 00:34:55,658 "We're gonna-we're gonna have you testify." 615 00:34:55,745 --> 00:34:58,139 ♪ 616 00:34:58,269 --> 00:34:59,444 [Mitzi] We went around, and we talked 617 00:34:59,531 --> 00:35:01,533 to the surviving victims, 618 00:35:01,620 --> 00:35:05,494 um, the ones that wanted to-to talk, 619 00:35:05,624 --> 00:35:07,931 like Laurie, the surviving victim 620 00:35:08,061 --> 00:35:11,282 from the San Diego attack who was left for dead. 621 00:35:11,456 --> 00:35:13,328 ♪ 622 00:35:13,458 --> 00:35:14,807 [Laurie] When I got that phone call 623 00:35:14,938 --> 00:35:17,941 saying, "We need you to testify," 624 00:35:18,071 --> 00:35:20,639 I think all the air was sucked out of me. 625 00:35:20,770 --> 00:35:22,902 [sighs] 626 00:35:23,033 --> 00:35:26,602 I had no idea that he served only two and a half years 627 00:35:26,732 --> 00:35:29,735 for two attempted murders, rapes-- 628 00:35:29,866 --> 00:35:33,174 very sadistic ones, no less-- 629 00:35:33,304 --> 00:35:34,566 until Mitzi told me. 630 00:35:34,740 --> 00:35:36,655 ♪ 631 00:35:36,786 --> 00:35:38,875 I lost it. 632 00:35:39,005 --> 00:35:40,529 I broke down, 633 00:35:40,616 --> 00:35:43,793 and I-I... I was scared all over again. 634 00:35:43,923 --> 00:35:46,187 I-I... 635 00:35:46,317 --> 00:35:48,667 I didn't wanna do it. 636 00:35:48,798 --> 00:35:49,842 [Mitzi] God, I was on the phone with her 637 00:35:49,973 --> 00:35:50,974 for probably three hours, 638 00:35:51,104 --> 00:35:52,105 just talking her through it 639 00:35:52,236 --> 00:35:54,020 and trying to convince her 640 00:35:54,151 --> 00:35:55,935 that I know it seems so hard now 641 00:35:56,066 --> 00:35:58,547 but that-that she had to trust us. 642 00:35:58,677 --> 00:36:01,419 "This is your chance to take back the power 643 00:36:01,550 --> 00:36:03,029 "and to tell your story. 644 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:04,814 This is for you too." 645 00:36:04,944 --> 00:36:07,773 We, for whatever reason as a society, 646 00:36:07,904 --> 00:36:10,863 treat victims of sexual assault 647 00:36:10,994 --> 00:36:13,431 different than we treat victims of any other crime. 648 00:36:13,562 --> 00:36:16,434 Sexual assault victims tend to be treated 649 00:36:16,565 --> 00:36:19,089 on the stand like they're liars, 650 00:36:19,220 --> 00:36:21,874 but it's not gonna happen on this case. 651 00:36:22,005 --> 00:36:24,137 [desolate music] 652 00:36:24,225 --> 00:36:26,575 Surviving victims on cases like this, 653 00:36:26,662 --> 00:36:29,099 they are gold. 654 00:36:29,186 --> 00:36:33,451 They are the... linchpin 655 00:36:33,582 --> 00:36:37,020 that allows a jury to actually understand 656 00:36:37,150 --> 00:36:38,935 what happened to all of these women 657 00:36:39,065 --> 00:36:40,502 who can no longer speak 658 00:36:40,632 --> 00:36:42,417 because they're in their graves. 659 00:36:42,591 --> 00:36:45,507 ♪ 660 00:36:50,207 --> 00:36:51,948 [Darren] The prosecutor, who was Beth Silverman, 661 00:36:52,078 --> 00:36:53,123 she calls me. 662 00:36:53,254 --> 00:36:54,559 She wanted to be sure 663 00:36:54,690 --> 00:36:56,169 she brought every witness she could get. 664 00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:57,649 She wanted all of us there. 665 00:36:57,780 --> 00:36:59,608 I call Leila McClain, 666 00:36:59,738 --> 00:37:02,045 and I call Hilda Nelson, 667 00:37:02,175 --> 00:37:05,483 the two victims that survived his attack in Pascagoula, 668 00:37:05,570 --> 00:37:07,311 and I let them know that he's in custody, 669 00:37:07,442 --> 00:37:08,965 and they were like, "Oh, thank you, Jesus. 670 00:37:09,095 --> 00:37:11,184 Thank you, Jesus," and they were all ready to go. 671 00:37:11,315 --> 00:37:12,447 They were excited. 672 00:37:12,534 --> 00:37:13,839 They could have their day in court. 673 00:37:14,013 --> 00:37:16,886 ♪ 674 00:37:17,930 --> 00:37:20,933 [Beth] In August of 2014, 675 00:37:21,064 --> 00:37:24,241 the trial against Sam Little began. 676 00:37:24,372 --> 00:37:26,548 He comes across looking much different 677 00:37:26,635 --> 00:37:28,245 now that all these decades have gone by, 678 00:37:28,376 --> 00:37:30,116 and he's sitting in a wheelchair, 679 00:37:30,247 --> 00:37:31,944 and so one of the pieces of evidence 680 00:37:32,075 --> 00:37:34,033 that I like to use is photographs, 681 00:37:34,164 --> 00:37:36,949 as many photographs as the detectives can find 682 00:37:37,036 --> 00:37:38,777 of what he looked like at the time 683 00:37:38,908 --> 00:37:40,257 that he was sexually assaulting 684 00:37:40,388 --> 00:37:41,780 and trying to kill these women, 685 00:37:41,911 --> 00:37:43,347 as opposed to the little old man 686 00:37:43,478 --> 00:37:44,740 sitting in the wheelchair. 687 00:37:44,914 --> 00:37:46,785 ♪ 688 00:37:46,916 --> 00:37:48,613 The defense was that he didn't do 689 00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:50,136 any of these crimes, that he wasn't, uh, 690 00:37:50,267 --> 00:37:51,964 even a sex offender, 691 00:37:52,095 --> 00:37:54,358 that he had consensual sex with these women, 692 00:37:54,489 --> 00:37:56,186 that they were women 693 00:37:56,317 --> 00:37:57,970 who had prostituted themselves 694 00:37:58,057 --> 00:38:00,886 and probably had consensual sex with a number of men, 695 00:38:01,017 --> 00:38:03,324 so either he's a serial killer, 696 00:38:03,454 --> 00:38:06,065 or he's just the unluckiest guy on the-on the planet. 697 00:38:07,328 --> 00:38:09,721 And so in the opening statement, the jury was told 698 00:38:09,852 --> 00:38:12,724 that the surviving victims were going to come in 699 00:38:12,855 --> 00:38:14,639 and they were going to be able 700 00:38:14,726 --> 00:38:18,774 to establish a blueprint for what likely happened 701 00:38:18,904 --> 00:38:21,385 to the three victims who were murdered here in LA, 702 00:38:21,516 --> 00:38:26,042 Audrey Nelson, Carol Alford, and Guadalupe Apodaca. 703 00:38:26,216 --> 00:38:28,392 ♪ 704 00:38:28,523 --> 00:38:31,482 Two separate victims from Pascagoula, Mississippi, 705 00:38:31,613 --> 00:38:32,875 Leila and Hilda, 706 00:38:33,005 --> 00:38:34,877 who were survivors, 707 00:38:35,007 --> 00:38:38,837 told stories that were strikingly similar. 708 00:38:38,924 --> 00:38:41,362 [Darren] Leila McClain tells a story 709 00:38:41,449 --> 00:38:44,234 to where she is actually in a bar in Carver Village 710 00:38:44,321 --> 00:38:46,062 when she is approached, uh, 711 00:38:46,192 --> 00:38:48,107 and-and offered a date, 712 00:38:48,238 --> 00:38:50,371 and she gets in the car 713 00:38:50,501 --> 00:38:52,155 with Sam Little. 714 00:38:52,285 --> 00:38:54,200 [eerie music] 715 00:38:54,331 --> 00:38:57,508 Here are the... trial transcripts 716 00:38:57,639 --> 00:38:58,944 from Los Angeles. 717 00:38:59,075 --> 00:39:02,339 These are all 4,000-something pages 718 00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:03,427 of the trial. 719 00:39:05,081 --> 00:39:07,170 Let me find Leila's testimony. 720 00:39:07,344 --> 00:39:09,520 ♪ 721 00:39:09,651 --> 00:39:11,261 "As we was going around the corner, 722 00:39:11,392 --> 00:39:13,698 "I say, 'Go back that way.' 723 00:39:13,785 --> 00:39:15,787 "He say, 'I don't need to turn around 724 00:39:15,874 --> 00:39:17,136 for what I want to do to you.'" 725 00:39:19,095 --> 00:39:20,357 "And then he hit me right here 726 00:39:20,488 --> 00:39:21,793 "in between my eyes 727 00:39:21,924 --> 00:39:23,882 and then coldcocked me behind my head." 728 00:39:25,231 --> 00:39:26,407 "So you fought back?" 729 00:39:26,537 --> 00:39:28,800 "With everything I had." 730 00:39:28,931 --> 00:39:30,498 "Did you think that he was trying to kill you, 731 00:39:30,628 --> 00:39:31,847 choke you to death?" 732 00:39:31,977 --> 00:39:34,502 "Definitely. He was going to kill me." 733 00:39:36,634 --> 00:39:39,811 [Mitzi] When it came time for fireball Leila to identify 734 00:39:39,898 --> 00:39:42,074 the person you're testifying about in court, 735 00:39:42,205 --> 00:39:44,120 she turns and says, 736 00:39:44,250 --> 00:39:45,774 "Yeah, it's that man over there, 737 00:39:45,904 --> 00:39:47,645 only he's uglier now." [laughs] 738 00:39:47,776 --> 00:39:50,082 And I just thought that was the greatest. 739 00:39:50,213 --> 00:39:52,607 So, um--and Sam didn't like that too much. 740 00:39:52,737 --> 00:39:54,391 [melancholy music] 741 00:39:54,478 --> 00:39:56,567 [Darren] What I do find ironic about all this 742 00:39:56,698 --> 00:39:59,091 is that these people that we looked at 743 00:39:59,222 --> 00:40:03,879 as maybe not really reliable witnesses 744 00:40:04,009 --> 00:40:05,489 in 1982 745 00:40:05,620 --> 00:40:08,492 were heroes and stars 746 00:40:08,579 --> 00:40:11,669 in California in 2014 747 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,063 when they helped prosecute Sam Little. 748 00:40:14,237 --> 00:40:17,109 ♪ 749 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:19,155 [Mitzi] When Laurie got to court, 750 00:40:19,242 --> 00:40:20,809 it hit her finally 751 00:40:20,939 --> 00:40:22,419 that this was real 752 00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:23,942 and that she was gonna have to face this guy. 753 00:40:24,029 --> 00:40:28,338 She went into a complete panic attack. 754 00:40:28,512 --> 00:40:30,906 ♪ 755 00:40:31,036 --> 00:40:33,517 [Laurie] Just really triggered by the courtroom itself, 756 00:40:33,604 --> 00:40:35,084 you know, the building, 757 00:40:35,214 --> 00:40:36,738 just think-bringing memories back 758 00:40:36,868 --> 00:40:39,088 and a feeling like I'm not gonna be believed 759 00:40:39,218 --> 00:40:41,264 and I'm gonna be judged and I'm-- 760 00:40:41,394 --> 00:40:43,658 why am I electing to do this to myself again? 761 00:40:43,832 --> 00:40:47,052 ♪ 762 00:40:47,183 --> 00:40:49,402 [Mitzi] We just told her, "This is your conviction, 763 00:40:49,490 --> 00:40:52,754 what you should've gotten so many years ago," 764 00:40:52,884 --> 00:40:55,321 and then she got it together, and she was so good 765 00:40:55,452 --> 00:40:56,671 and so powerful. 766 00:40:58,411 --> 00:41:00,501 [Laurie] And I looked him in the face 767 00:41:00,631 --> 00:41:02,415 multiple times. 768 00:41:02,546 --> 00:41:03,939 "You don't win." 769 00:41:04,026 --> 00:41:06,158 ♪ 770 00:41:06,245 --> 00:41:08,683 [Beth] One thing I noticed about the surviving victims 771 00:41:08,813 --> 00:41:11,163 was that the longer they sat on the stand, 772 00:41:11,294 --> 00:41:13,731 the more comfortable they became 773 00:41:13,818 --> 00:41:16,125 trying to show Sam Little 774 00:41:16,255 --> 00:41:18,997 that they were stronger than him 775 00:41:19,128 --> 00:41:23,262 and that they had risen above what he had done to them. 776 00:41:27,353 --> 00:41:28,267 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 777 00:41:49,158 --> 00:41:50,072 [Sam laughs] 778 00:41:52,422 --> 00:41:54,076 [Jillian] Yeah, yeah. 779 00:41:54,163 --> 00:41:56,295 Well, she believes that was the truth. 780 00:41:56,469 --> 00:41:58,471 ♪ 781 00:41:58,602 --> 00:42:00,082 [Mitzi] It was a bunch of powerful women 782 00:42:00,212 --> 00:42:02,388 that took him down. 783 00:42:02,475 --> 00:42:04,434 That's something that Sam never had to deal-- 784 00:42:04,565 --> 00:42:08,569 he was used to overpowering these women 785 00:42:08,699 --> 00:42:10,962 and then getting away with it and getting away with it, 786 00:42:11,093 --> 00:42:12,790 and I really think he thought again, 787 00:42:12,921 --> 00:42:14,618 he was gonna get away with it this time. 788 00:42:14,749 --> 00:42:17,665 But, you know, the jig is up, 789 00:42:17,795 --> 00:42:19,231 as they say. 790 00:42:19,318 --> 00:42:21,233 ♪ 791 00:42:33,637 --> 00:42:36,118 [Jillian] She did a hell- she did a hell of a job. 792 00:42:36,248 --> 00:42:37,859 She really did. You got to admit it. 793 00:42:39,643 --> 00:42:42,559 ♪ 794 00:42:44,648 --> 00:42:49,131 [Mitzi] September 2, 2014, 795 00:42:49,261 --> 00:42:51,481 the verdict was read, and Sam was convicted 796 00:42:51,612 --> 00:42:54,005 of all three counts of murder, first degree. 797 00:42:54,179 --> 00:42:57,095 ♪ 798 00:42:59,054 --> 00:43:00,621 [news reporter] The relatives of Little's victims 799 00:43:00,751 --> 00:43:03,058 spoke out during today's sentencing hearing. 800 00:43:03,188 --> 00:43:05,843 Afterwards, they gathered in a courthouse hallway, 801 00:43:05,974 --> 00:43:08,672 total strangers brought together by tragedy. 802 00:43:08,803 --> 00:43:10,848 I was 13 when I had to bury her. 803 00:43:10,979 --> 00:43:12,850 I had to say goodbye. 804 00:43:12,981 --> 00:43:14,504 [news reporter] Pearl Unique Nelson says her mother 805 00:43:14,635 --> 00:43:16,637 was just starting to get her life back together 806 00:43:16,724 --> 00:43:18,769 when she was murdered in 1989. 807 00:43:18,900 --> 00:43:21,032 We got him. He's gone. 808 00:43:21,163 --> 00:43:22,860 He can't hurt anybody now. 809 00:43:22,947 --> 00:43:24,470 ♪ 810 00:43:24,601 --> 00:43:26,298 I think when Samuel Little knew, 811 00:43:26,429 --> 00:43:29,388 "The show is over, and now I'm going to jail," 812 00:43:29,475 --> 00:43:32,435 he was just more dark and angry. 813 00:43:32,565 --> 00:43:34,393 His eyes changed. 814 00:43:34,524 --> 00:43:37,527 Could never forget that moment. 815 00:43:37,658 --> 00:43:39,355 [news reporter] Seventy-four-year-old 816 00:43:39,442 --> 00:43:41,052 Samuel Little swore at the victims' relatives 817 00:43:41,183 --> 00:43:42,575 and shouted in the courtroom 818 00:43:42,706 --> 00:43:44,316 during the sentencing hearing, 819 00:43:44,447 --> 00:43:45,666 denying that he committed the killings. 820 00:43:50,671 --> 00:43:51,672 I didn't do it. 821 00:43:52,890 --> 00:43:53,848 [bleep]. 822 00:43:57,286 --> 00:43:58,548 [bleep]. 823 00:44:03,814 --> 00:44:05,686 [judge] Mr. Little, that's enough. 824 00:44:11,256 --> 00:44:12,736 [news reporter] Tony Zambrano is talking 825 00:44:12,823 --> 00:44:15,217 about his mother, Guadalupe Apodaca. 826 00:44:15,304 --> 00:44:17,741 In this photo, Tony is seen smiling, 827 00:44:17,828 --> 00:44:20,178 sitting alongside his brother and mother, 828 00:44:20,309 --> 00:44:22,703 who was murdered by Little in 1989. 829 00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:24,139 It was a big mystery. 830 00:44:24,269 --> 00:44:25,227 You know, um, you know, that's-that's-- 831 00:44:25,357 --> 00:44:26,619 that was--been the worst part, 832 00:44:26,750 --> 00:44:28,578 not knowing, you know, who did it. 833 00:44:28,709 --> 00:44:30,058 If you have a mom out there, you know, call her up, 834 00:44:30,188 --> 00:44:31,712 and, you know, tell her you love her, 835 00:44:31,842 --> 00:44:32,713 because you might not have another chance. 836 00:44:34,671 --> 00:44:36,673 [Mitzi] Then it was Sam's turn to speak, 837 00:44:36,804 --> 00:44:38,980 and he gave some spiel 838 00:44:39,110 --> 00:44:42,200 about how it was a modern-day lynching. 839 00:44:42,331 --> 00:44:46,161 This conviction was brought on by lies 840 00:44:46,291 --> 00:44:49,425 and liars coached by liars. 841 00:44:49,512 --> 00:44:51,514 [Mitzi] He said Beth and I, you know, 842 00:44:51,644 --> 00:44:55,474 made up lies and the victims are all liars. 843 00:44:55,561 --> 00:44:58,260 The obsession of labeling me as a serial killer 844 00:44:58,390 --> 00:45:01,089 without any proof, any bodies, 845 00:45:01,219 --> 00:45:02,830 was a legal lynching. 846 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,657 [dramatic music] 847 00:45:04,745 --> 00:45:06,311 [Mitzi] The judge sentenced him to the maximum, 848 00:45:06,398 --> 00:45:07,748 which was three life sentences 849 00:45:07,878 --> 00:45:09,445 with no possibility of parole. 850 00:45:11,142 --> 00:45:12,622 [Jillian] Even after Sam Little 851 00:45:12,753 --> 00:45:14,363 was finally convicted 852 00:45:14,493 --> 00:45:17,932 of three murders in 2014, 853 00:45:18,062 --> 00:45:22,893 he... vehemently denied 854 00:45:23,024 --> 00:45:26,288 he committed these crimes 855 00:45:26,418 --> 00:45:30,074 until 2018, when he began confessing to me. 856 00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:33,730 Sam still does go on these rants 857 00:45:33,861 --> 00:45:35,688 about how he was framed. 858 00:45:35,819 --> 00:45:38,648 "DNA doesn't prove anything. Just proved that I was there." 859 00:45:38,779 --> 00:45:40,998 And I'm like, "But you did it! 860 00:45:41,129 --> 00:45:43,348 "Just say you did it. 861 00:45:43,479 --> 00:45:45,176 "Just admit it. 862 00:45:45,307 --> 00:45:46,656 "Just say you're guilty, 863 00:45:46,787 --> 00:45:49,964 'cause you are guilty." 864 00:45:50,094 --> 00:45:51,313 And he did. 865 00:45:51,487 --> 00:45:53,054 ♪ 866 00:45:53,184 --> 00:45:54,620 I feel like we haven't talked 867 00:45:54,751 --> 00:45:57,754 about the victims 868 00:45:57,885 --> 00:45:59,712 that you were convicted for. 869 00:45:59,843 --> 00:46:01,671 I wanna hear about Audrey. 870 00:46:01,802 --> 00:46:04,108 I wanna hear about Lupe. 871 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,633 I want you to walk me through them, one by one. 872 00:46:11,376 --> 00:46:12,290 [Jillian] That's right. 873 00:46:22,039 --> 00:46:23,780 [Jillian] Do you know she was an artist, too, 874 00:46:23,911 --> 00:46:24,825 like you? 875 00:46:29,046 --> 00:46:31,527 ♪ 876 00:46:31,657 --> 00:46:34,617 Did you ever ask Sam about Audrey? 877 00:46:34,747 --> 00:46:35,836 I did. 878 00:46:35,966 --> 00:46:37,141 Did he even remember that one? 879 00:46:37,272 --> 00:46:38,664 Yes. 880 00:46:38,751 --> 00:46:42,103 He remembered, um... [sighs] 881 00:46:42,233 --> 00:46:43,669 How much do you wanna know? 882 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,323 Just tell me. 883 00:46:45,454 --> 00:46:47,717 So she was staying at a hotel 884 00:46:47,848 --> 00:46:49,719 in downtown LA. 885 00:46:49,806 --> 00:46:52,461 She was walking down the street. 886 00:46:52,591 --> 00:46:55,551 He pulled up, picked her up, 887 00:46:55,681 --> 00:46:57,858 and they went and got some heroin, 888 00:46:57,988 --> 00:47:01,513 they got high in the back of his car, 889 00:47:01,644 --> 00:47:02,863 and that he strangled her 890 00:47:02,993 --> 00:47:05,256 on the floor of the car, 891 00:47:05,387 --> 00:47:07,519 um, and it was right there 892 00:47:07,650 --> 00:47:10,435 in the... parking lot 893 00:47:10,566 --> 00:47:12,437 where he left her. 894 00:47:12,524 --> 00:47:17,225 Um, he half picked her up, half dragged her, 895 00:47:17,355 --> 00:47:18,791 uh, out of the car 896 00:47:18,922 --> 00:47:21,925 and put her in the-in the dumpster... 897 00:47:22,056 --> 00:47:24,232 -Mm-hmm. -...where she was left, 898 00:47:24,362 --> 00:47:25,450 and you've seen her. 899 00:47:25,581 --> 00:47:27,104 Yes. 900 00:47:27,191 --> 00:47:29,715 No, nothing's pretty about what he does. 901 00:47:29,846 --> 00:47:31,326 I just feel like, you know, 902 00:47:31,456 --> 00:47:33,502 that Sam Little--just, he... 903 00:47:33,632 --> 00:47:35,199 he was kind of just jonesing 904 00:47:35,330 --> 00:47:37,723 for-for a quick kill. 905 00:47:37,854 --> 00:47:40,117 He just saw someone. 906 00:47:40,248 --> 00:47:41,640 Unfortunately, it was her. 907 00:47:41,727 --> 00:47:43,468 I think that's correct, 908 00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:46,863 that it was more of a chance... 909 00:47:46,994 --> 00:47:48,821 -Yeah, it wasn't-- -...encounter. 910 00:47:48,952 --> 00:47:51,172 Yeah. 911 00:47:51,302 --> 00:47:53,304 She fought. She-she fought. 912 00:47:53,391 --> 00:47:54,436 She fought him. 913 00:47:54,566 --> 00:47:57,091 She was kicking and screaming, 914 00:47:57,221 --> 00:47:59,180 and you could tell by all the bruises, 915 00:47:59,267 --> 00:48:01,704 and he was dragging her. 916 00:48:01,834 --> 00:48:03,662 Sh-she was fighting for her life. 917 00:48:03,836 --> 00:48:05,969 ♪ 918 00:48:06,100 --> 00:48:08,102 Knowing what happened, I feel 919 00:48:08,232 --> 00:48:09,842 like, uh, the chapter 920 00:48:09,973 --> 00:48:12,062 has been closed on a book. 921 00:48:14,064 --> 00:48:17,763 I feel that now my mother, Audrey, 922 00:48:17,850 --> 00:48:20,375 can really rest in peace. 923 00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:23,465 ♪ 924 00:48:25,075 --> 00:48:29,297 [Jillian] This story, Audrey's story, 925 00:48:29,427 --> 00:48:32,561 will never leave me. 926 00:48:32,691 --> 00:48:36,869 After seeing the Audrey Nelson crime scene photos, 927 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,307 I kept having these dreams 928 00:48:39,437 --> 00:48:43,093 that my kids were in a dumpster, 929 00:48:43,224 --> 00:48:44,660 that my dogs were in a dumpster. 930 00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:47,141 Like, I just kept having these dreams that 931 00:48:47,271 --> 00:48:48,838 my husband would just be sobbing. 932 00:48:48,969 --> 00:48:50,927 [indistinct chatter] 933 00:48:51,058 --> 00:48:53,147 -Catch! -Oh, game over! 934 00:48:54,931 --> 00:48:56,802 [Jillian] The Sam Little project 935 00:48:56,933 --> 00:48:58,195 wears on you. 936 00:48:58,282 --> 00:48:59,675 It wears on the relationship. 937 00:48:59,805 --> 00:49:01,459 It wears on the family. 938 00:49:01,590 --> 00:49:02,939 [operator] ...call from a telephone-- 939 00:49:03,070 --> 00:49:04,941 ...call from a telephone number... 940 00:49:05,072 --> 00:49:08,510 [Jillian] The repetitiveness of it, 941 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:10,991 the consistent demands 942 00:49:11,121 --> 00:49:14,037 of a sociopath 943 00:49:14,168 --> 00:49:16,518 who, by definition, 944 00:49:16,648 --> 00:49:20,565 is a psychic vampire... 945 00:49:20,652 --> 00:49:23,394 but I've always tried to provide 946 00:49:23,525 --> 00:49:26,745 a safe space for my children 947 00:49:26,832 --> 00:49:28,356 and my family 948 00:49:28,486 --> 00:49:30,575 around this work, 949 00:49:30,662 --> 00:49:32,838 and there's a lot to negotiate. 950 00:49:34,666 --> 00:49:36,451 So, T, how do you feel 951 00:49:36,581 --> 00:49:38,931 about what I'm writing about right now? 952 00:49:39,062 --> 00:49:40,803 [Tariku] It's kind of cool. 953 00:49:40,933 --> 00:49:42,544 What's cool about it? 954 00:49:42,674 --> 00:49:44,024 I like stories. 955 00:49:44,154 --> 00:49:45,416 [Jillian] You think the story about Sam 956 00:49:45,547 --> 00:49:46,809 is a pretty good story? 957 00:49:46,939 --> 00:49:48,245 [Tariku] Yeah. 958 00:49:48,376 --> 00:49:50,160 You think it has a good villain in it? 959 00:49:50,291 --> 00:49:51,944 Well... 960 00:49:52,075 --> 00:49:54,643 he's kind of too villainous 961 00:49:54,773 --> 00:49:57,385 and, like, he just doesn't care 962 00:49:57,515 --> 00:49:58,951 who dies and who lives. 963 00:49:59,082 --> 00:50:02,129 Yeah, he doesn't really have empathy, right? 964 00:50:03,043 --> 00:50:05,915 My 12-year-old is really curious, 965 00:50:06,046 --> 00:50:08,744 and he's really interested in the forensics of it, 966 00:50:08,874 --> 00:50:11,529 and he's sort of a junior detective. 967 00:50:12,791 --> 00:50:15,142 He wants to understand DNA. He wants to talk about it. 968 00:50:17,100 --> 00:50:18,841 Now, my eight-year-old... 969 00:50:18,928 --> 00:50:20,190 You win. 970 00:50:20,321 --> 00:50:22,279 -You get your hugs later. -All right. 971 00:50:22,410 --> 00:50:24,586 ...I just try to keep him away as much as I can, 972 00:50:24,716 --> 00:50:26,718 but he knows. 973 00:50:26,849 --> 00:50:28,851 [sighs] 974 00:50:29,852 --> 00:50:32,811 Do you feel like, um, 975 00:50:32,942 --> 00:50:36,293 my working on this story has... 976 00:50:36,380 --> 00:50:39,905 affected our-our family and our lives? 977 00:50:40,036 --> 00:50:43,213 Because... dealing with someone without empathy 978 00:50:43,344 --> 00:50:44,562 -can be very... -[Tariku] Mm-hmm. 979 00:50:44,649 --> 00:50:46,390 -...difficult. -[Tariku] Yeah. 980 00:50:46,521 --> 00:50:48,479 How do you feel like it's affected us? 981 00:50:48,566 --> 00:50:51,482 Because you can't, like-- 982 00:50:51,613 --> 00:50:55,356 you can't be mad at him. 983 00:50:55,486 --> 00:50:57,314 Well, you can be mad at him, but, like, 984 00:50:57,445 --> 00:51:00,012 you can't, like, show your anger. 985 00:51:00,100 --> 00:51:04,234 Otherwise, you can't get the stuff that you need. 986 00:51:04,365 --> 00:51:08,804 And--but then you have-- you let it out at home. 987 00:51:10,414 --> 00:51:13,069 But if you could let it out, 988 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,419 I bet it would be a different story 989 00:51:15,550 --> 00:51:18,640 and... all this would be different. 990 00:51:18,770 --> 00:51:20,816 [Scott] I'm not resenting the project. 991 00:51:20,946 --> 00:51:23,384 I'm not resenting anyone 992 00:51:23,514 --> 00:51:25,951 other than probably Sam himself, 993 00:51:26,082 --> 00:51:28,476 and, uh, I guess 994 00:51:28,606 --> 00:51:31,435 that it-it feels important and necessary, 995 00:51:31,566 --> 00:51:33,350 but I don't want our kids 996 00:51:33,481 --> 00:51:34,786 really being exposed to it that much. 997 00:51:34,873 --> 00:51:36,614 ♪ 998 00:51:36,745 --> 00:51:38,486 And there's times where I'm like, 999 00:51:38,616 --> 00:51:40,836 "I just can't hear any more about this." 1000 00:51:40,923 --> 00:51:42,794 ♪ 1001 00:51:42,881 --> 00:51:45,232 So right now, we figured out a way 1002 00:51:45,362 --> 00:51:46,711 where it's just like, "Listen, 1003 00:51:46,842 --> 00:51:48,409 "y-just go up and work. 1004 00:51:48,496 --> 00:51:51,325 "Can't come down here and-and talk about this 1005 00:51:51,455 --> 00:51:54,328 in this kind of space we're in with the kids and stuff." 1006 00:51:54,502 --> 00:51:56,721 ♪ 1007 00:51:56,808 --> 00:51:58,593 I have-I have been a little angry. 1008 00:51:58,723 --> 00:51:59,724 [Tariku] Mm. 1009 00:52:03,641 --> 00:52:04,642 I'm sorry. 1010 00:52:04,773 --> 00:52:06,035 It's okay. 1011 00:52:06,166 --> 00:52:07,602 [melancholy music] 1012 00:52:07,689 --> 00:52:10,082 -Yeah. -I'm not angry at you. 1013 00:52:10,213 --> 00:52:12,259 -I know. -You gave me a great manicure. 1014 00:52:13,825 --> 00:52:15,697 Wanna do another coat? 1015 00:52:15,871 --> 00:52:18,395 ♪ 1016 00:52:18,526 --> 00:52:19,701 [Scott] I've always had a-a feeling 1017 00:52:19,831 --> 00:52:21,703 that we're drawn into things 1018 00:52:21,833 --> 00:52:24,271 for a reason, and... 1019 00:52:24,401 --> 00:52:26,882 these victims' stories need to be told, 1020 00:52:27,012 --> 00:52:30,015 and... it's really, really important to her, 1021 00:52:30,146 --> 00:52:34,019 and I feel it's-it's important to the souls of these... 1022 00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:35,456 people. 1023 00:52:35,630 --> 00:52:38,676 ♪ 1024 00:52:38,807 --> 00:52:41,113 [Jillian] I believe in the project, 1025 00:52:41,244 --> 00:52:42,854 and I-I believe in the case, 1026 00:52:42,985 --> 00:52:45,509 and I-I wound up in the middle of it 1027 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,990 before I even understood 1028 00:52:48,077 --> 00:52:49,252 what it was. 1029 00:52:49,426 --> 00:52:51,559 ♪ 1030 00:52:51,689 --> 00:52:54,257 It's taken its toll 1031 00:52:54,344 --> 00:52:56,868 on myself and my family. 1032 00:52:56,999 --> 00:52:59,784 [disquieting music] 1033 00:52:59,958 --> 00:53:03,135 ♪ 1034 00:53:04,049 --> 00:53:08,576 I never expected to be solving cold cases, 1035 00:53:08,706 --> 00:53:13,450 but it is a mission for me now. 1036 00:53:13,537 --> 00:53:15,626 I have a compulsion 1037 00:53:15,757 --> 00:53:19,369 or an obsession... 1038 00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:22,764 to bring justice to these victims... 1039 00:53:22,894 --> 00:53:23,895 Oh, yeah, look at that. 1040 00:53:24,026 --> 00:53:25,941 ...before he dies, 1041 00:53:26,071 --> 00:53:30,728 because so many of these mysteries, 1042 00:53:30,859 --> 00:53:32,817 so many of these Jane Does, 1043 00:53:32,948 --> 00:53:33,992 die with him. 1044 00:53:34,166 --> 00:53:37,039 ♪