1 00:00:01,175 --> 00:00:03,046 [Jillian] In 2018, 2 00:00:03,177 --> 00:00:04,743 Sam Little confessed 3 00:00:04,874 --> 00:00:07,181 to 13 murders to me. 4 00:00:07,311 --> 00:00:11,141 It left me, like, frozen. 5 00:00:11,272 --> 00:00:14,840 Then he told me about a victim in Omaha 6 00:00:14,971 --> 00:00:17,234 that was left in a barrel, 7 00:00:17,365 --> 00:00:20,977 and I said, "Stop. 8 00:00:21,108 --> 00:00:23,023 Say that again." 9 00:00:23,110 --> 00:00:25,721 I wasn't trying to solve a murder. 10 00:00:25,851 --> 00:00:27,288 I was just listening. 11 00:00:27,375 --> 00:00:30,726 And I got that weird little detail 12 00:00:30,856 --> 00:00:34,164 that helped law enforcement put the pieces together. 13 00:00:34,295 --> 00:00:37,211 That was how they identified her. 14 00:00:37,341 --> 00:00:39,735 It was Agatha White Buffalo. 15 00:00:39,865 --> 00:00:42,912 [news reporter] Her murder is no longer a cold case. 16 00:00:43,043 --> 00:00:45,610 Omaha police tell me it's officially classified now 17 00:00:45,741 --> 00:00:47,743 as exceptionally clear. 18 00:00:47,830 --> 00:00:50,311 [Jillian] That lit a fire in me 19 00:00:50,398 --> 00:00:53,662 to try to identify more victims 20 00:00:53,792 --> 00:00:55,446 before he dies. 21 00:00:55,577 --> 00:00:57,796 So this is Audrey. 22 00:00:57,883 --> 00:01:00,364 Did you ever ask Sam about Audrey? 23 00:01:00,495 --> 00:01:01,452 My mother? 24 00:01:01,583 --> 00:01:02,801 Yes. 25 00:01:02,888 --> 00:01:05,065 How much do you wanna know? 26 00:01:05,152 --> 00:01:07,589 I have a compulsion 27 00:01:07,676 --> 00:01:09,634 or an obsession 28 00:01:09,765 --> 00:01:12,681 because we have limited time. 29 00:01:12,811 --> 00:01:14,770 It is a mission. 30 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:17,207 It's about these victims. 31 00:01:17,338 --> 00:01:20,123 [eerie music] 32 00:01:20,297 --> 00:01:22,995 ♪ 33 00:01:27,696 --> 00:01:29,219 [Michael] So are we rolling? We're going? 34 00:01:29,350 --> 00:01:30,351 -Going? -Okay. 35 00:01:30,481 --> 00:01:31,482 All right. 36 00:01:31,613 --> 00:01:32,918 I'm Michael Connelly, 37 00:01:33,049 --> 00:01:35,007 and this is Murder Book. 38 00:01:35,138 --> 00:01:36,879 So I'm here with Jillian Lauren, 39 00:01:37,009 --> 00:01:39,490 who is writing a book about Sam Little. 40 00:01:39,577 --> 00:01:42,537 She's been talking to Sam. 41 00:01:42,667 --> 00:01:45,670 She's, uh, elicited some of his confessions. 42 00:01:45,801 --> 00:01:47,585 Right. 43 00:01:47,716 --> 00:01:50,066 And I would daresay she may know more about Sam 44 00:01:50,197 --> 00:01:52,634 than anybody other than Sam himself. 45 00:01:52,721 --> 00:01:55,419 [ominous music] 46 00:01:55,593 --> 00:01:58,422 ♪ 47 00:02:02,252 --> 00:02:04,080 [Jillian] He's in prison, 48 00:02:04,211 --> 00:02:06,169 but then, of course, 49 00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:09,694 I was told by detectives 50 00:02:09,825 --> 00:02:12,480 that they suspected there were many more murders, 51 00:02:12,610 --> 00:02:14,003 many, many more victims 52 00:02:14,134 --> 00:02:16,092 all across the country, 53 00:02:16,223 --> 00:02:20,183 and, I, uh, was haunted by that idea. 54 00:02:20,314 --> 00:02:21,837 What is it you're doing? 55 00:02:21,924 --> 00:02:24,056 You're out there trying to solve cases. 56 00:02:24,187 --> 00:02:25,841 Yeah. 57 00:02:25,971 --> 00:02:29,323 I just wound up in this very strange position 58 00:02:29,453 --> 00:02:33,501 where, uh, uh, I have the ear of this killer. 59 00:02:33,588 --> 00:02:34,415 Mm-hmm. 60 00:02:35,503 --> 00:02:37,592 ♪ 61 00:02:37,679 --> 00:02:38,680 Mr. Sam. 62 00:02:42,074 --> 00:02:43,815 Can I ask you a couple of questions? 63 00:02:45,991 --> 00:02:48,342 Most people don't interview killers 64 00:02:48,472 --> 00:02:50,866 over the course of two years, 65 00:02:50,996 --> 00:02:53,956 and I sort of speak Sam. 66 00:02:54,130 --> 00:02:55,523 ♪ 67 00:02:56,698 --> 00:02:58,178 [Jillian] Yes. 68 00:02:58,308 --> 00:02:59,962 You're the most important person to me, 69 00:03:00,049 --> 00:03:01,355 and I am listening to you. 70 00:03:19,938 --> 00:03:22,767 It's definitely a really expansive case, 71 00:03:22,898 --> 00:03:26,249 and then also, there's this broader social context. 72 00:03:26,336 --> 00:03:29,687 I think that Sam is a lot smarter 73 00:03:29,818 --> 00:03:32,647 than he lets on, 74 00:03:32,777 --> 00:03:36,433 and there is a big social aspect 75 00:03:36,564 --> 00:03:37,521 to how he chose his victims. 76 00:03:39,958 --> 00:03:42,309 So I wanna know what type of woman. 77 00:03:42,439 --> 00:03:44,572 As a predator, I wanna know 78 00:03:44,659 --> 00:03:45,834 how you knew. 79 00:03:56,105 --> 00:03:57,454 [Jillian] I mean, and you're gonna pick 80 00:03:57,585 --> 00:03:58,499 the weakest one, right? 81 00:04:10,032 --> 00:04:10,859 [Jillian] Right. 82 00:04:20,434 --> 00:04:21,696 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 83 00:04:43,239 --> 00:04:46,111 ♪ 84 00:04:48,853 --> 00:04:50,464 [news reporter] The FBI calls Samuel Little 85 00:04:50,594 --> 00:04:52,857 America's most prolific serial killer. 86 00:04:52,988 --> 00:04:55,904 [Sam] If you want me to tell my secrets to you, 87 00:04:56,034 --> 00:04:57,993 come down here and look me in my eye 88 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,951 while I do. 89 00:05:00,038 --> 00:05:02,954 [Jillian] My deal with the devil is, 90 00:05:03,085 --> 00:05:07,089 "You will not die alone if you tell me the truth." 91 00:05:07,219 --> 00:05:08,351 [Sam] I'm not gonna admit to those girls. 92 00:05:08,482 --> 00:05:09,961 [Jillian] I don't believe you. 93 00:05:10,048 --> 00:05:12,486 So you tell me the truth right now. 94 00:05:12,616 --> 00:05:14,531 [news reporter] Little strangled 93 victims 95 00:05:14,662 --> 00:05:17,708 between 1970 and 2005. 96 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,493 [Jillian] He was tried and got off 97 00:05:19,580 --> 00:05:21,190 again and again and again. 98 00:05:21,277 --> 00:05:22,757 [news reporter] Investigators believe 99 00:05:22,887 --> 00:05:24,062 that Samuel Little killed more people 100 00:05:24,193 --> 00:05:26,326 than serial killers Ted Bundy, 101 00:05:26,456 --> 00:05:29,633 John Wayne Gacy, and Jeffrey Dahmer combined. 102 00:05:30,591 --> 00:05:31,548 [Jillian] If you weren't locked up, 103 00:05:31,679 --> 00:05:34,029 I'd probably be dead by now. 104 00:05:34,159 --> 00:05:35,857 [Sam] You're right. 105 00:05:40,470 --> 00:05:44,431 [Jillian] After Sam started confessing to me, 106 00:05:44,561 --> 00:05:47,390 then it was like the floodgates opened, 107 00:05:47,521 --> 00:05:50,567 and he told me about another one 108 00:05:50,654 --> 00:05:53,091 and another one, another one. 109 00:05:54,223 --> 00:05:57,922 And then I'm dealing with law enforcement, 110 00:05:58,053 --> 00:06:00,925 and Texas Ranger James Holland 111 00:06:01,056 --> 00:06:03,145 came into the picture. 112 00:06:03,275 --> 00:06:05,582 He is the lead investigator on this now. 113 00:06:05,669 --> 00:06:07,671 ♪ 114 00:06:07,802 --> 00:06:11,849 And it became a nationwide effort 115 00:06:11,936 --> 00:06:14,243 to solve these cold cases. 116 00:06:16,071 --> 00:06:18,290 All right, now, this-this one is later on, 117 00:06:18,421 --> 00:06:20,728 around '91, '92. 118 00:06:20,858 --> 00:06:22,643 Remember some young lady you dumped? 119 00:06:22,773 --> 00:06:26,516 -See if she-- -Oh, ho, ho! God, yeah. 120 00:06:26,647 --> 00:06:27,822 -What do you know? -I did that to her. 121 00:06:27,952 --> 00:06:29,563 What do you remember about her? 122 00:06:29,650 --> 00:06:32,087 Them eyes and that face. 123 00:06:33,131 --> 00:06:34,568 [news reporter] Seventy-eight-year-old 124 00:06:34,698 --> 00:06:36,265 Samuel Little [who the DA says] confessed to killing 125 00:06:36,396 --> 00:06:39,442 Denise Christie Brothers in Odessa in 1994, 126 00:06:39,529 --> 00:06:43,185 but that confession may be just one of many. 127 00:06:43,315 --> 00:06:45,579 [Jillian] And then Sam's confessions 128 00:06:45,709 --> 00:06:47,711 started to pile up. 129 00:06:47,842 --> 00:06:49,539 Thirteen murders 130 00:06:49,670 --> 00:06:51,759 turned into 23, 131 00:06:51,889 --> 00:06:54,283 turned into 33. 132 00:06:54,414 --> 00:06:55,676 [news reporter] His killing spree could span 133 00:06:55,806 --> 00:06:59,070 19 states over three decades. 134 00:07:00,245 --> 00:07:04,249 [Jillian] Sam was talking about all of these cold cases, 135 00:07:04,380 --> 00:07:08,993 all of these murders that had been long unsolved 136 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,561 throughout the United States. 137 00:07:11,692 --> 00:07:13,041 [news reporter] Now investigators 138 00:07:13,171 --> 00:07:14,303 from Texas to Indiana to Arizona 139 00:07:14,434 --> 00:07:15,652 who have interviewed Little 140 00:07:15,783 --> 00:07:17,262 are considering their own cases. 141 00:07:27,751 --> 00:07:28,622 Okay. 142 00:07:33,191 --> 00:07:34,758 [news reporter] Investigators believe 143 00:07:34,889 --> 00:07:36,151 that Samuel Little killed more people 144 00:07:36,281 --> 00:07:37,805 than serial killers Ted Bundy, 145 00:07:37,935 --> 00:07:39,241 John Wayne Gacy, 146 00:07:39,371 --> 00:07:42,113 and Jeffrey Dahmer combined. 147 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,420 [Jillian] Ultimately, 148 00:07:44,507 --> 00:07:48,380 Sam confessed to 93 murders. 149 00:07:49,207 --> 00:07:50,774 [news reporter] Seventy-nine-year-old 150 00:07:50,861 --> 00:07:52,907 Samuel Little, the most prolific serial killer 151 00:07:53,037 --> 00:07:55,953 in U.S. history, according to the FBI. 152 00:07:56,084 --> 00:07:58,042 Ninety-three women, 153 00:07:58,173 --> 00:07:59,653 which is like-- 154 00:07:59,783 --> 00:08:02,917 that number is incomprehensible, 155 00:08:03,047 --> 00:08:05,006 but that is the number of lives lost. 156 00:08:06,616 --> 00:08:09,097 I always thought he was... 157 00:08:09,227 --> 00:08:10,533 good for many. 158 00:08:10,664 --> 00:08:13,362 I never thought... 159 00:08:13,493 --> 00:08:14,668 that many. 160 00:08:14,755 --> 00:08:17,105 It's mind-boggling. 161 00:08:17,235 --> 00:08:18,846 He would've never gained that title 162 00:08:18,976 --> 00:08:20,978 had the system dealt with him correctly, 163 00:08:21,109 --> 00:08:23,241 so it just makes me sad. 164 00:08:25,417 --> 00:08:29,291 He's the most prolific serial killer 165 00:08:29,421 --> 00:08:32,163 in American history, 166 00:08:32,294 --> 00:08:35,558 and I'm the only journalist he'll talk to, 167 00:08:35,689 --> 00:08:38,953 and it's a great responsibility. 168 00:08:39,083 --> 00:08:41,259 Little is in poor health, but he's still talking a lot 169 00:08:41,390 --> 00:08:43,435 and drawing pictures. 170 00:08:43,566 --> 00:08:46,351 Tonight time is running out to verify his confessions 171 00:08:46,482 --> 00:08:49,137 and provide closure to the victims' families. 172 00:08:49,267 --> 00:08:52,575 [somber music] 173 00:08:52,706 --> 00:08:53,924 [Jillian] Do you remember one of your victims? 174 00:08:54,055 --> 00:08:56,361 Her name is Daisy. 175 00:08:56,448 --> 00:08:58,625 ♪ 176 00:08:58,755 --> 00:09:01,018 Sam explains to me 177 00:09:01,105 --> 00:09:04,152 that he believes he owns the souls 178 00:09:04,282 --> 00:09:06,894 of every one of his victims. 179 00:09:07,024 --> 00:09:09,157 They belong to him. 180 00:09:09,287 --> 00:09:13,074 "Mine," he says over and over. 181 00:09:13,204 --> 00:09:15,511 He told them he loved them. 182 00:09:15,642 --> 00:09:18,514 He told them they were his forever. 183 00:09:18,601 --> 00:09:21,952 Sometimes he made them say it back to him 184 00:09:22,083 --> 00:09:23,867 before he killed them. 185 00:09:23,954 --> 00:09:26,870 ♪ 186 00:09:27,001 --> 00:09:28,089 Daisy. 187 00:09:28,219 --> 00:09:30,439 She's from Houma, Louisiana. 188 00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:31,309 You remember her? 189 00:09:39,622 --> 00:09:43,321 [Jillian] Daisy's life was taken from her in 1996, 190 00:09:43,452 --> 00:09:46,586 and her murder went unsolved for decades. 191 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,457 ♪ 192 00:09:48,544 --> 00:09:50,067 Mr. Sam, 193 00:09:50,198 --> 00:09:52,504 do you remember anything about Daisy? 194 00:10:05,387 --> 00:10:06,214 [Jillian] Right. 195 00:10:07,955 --> 00:10:10,522 Do you think about the families 196 00:10:10,653 --> 00:10:13,090 of the women who you murdered? 197 00:10:18,748 --> 00:10:19,575 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 198 00:10:20,576 --> 00:10:23,318 ♪ 199 00:10:23,448 --> 00:10:27,583 [Jillian] The families are also Sam's victims. 200 00:10:27,714 --> 00:10:29,977 I feel beholden to them, 201 00:10:30,107 --> 00:10:32,327 and I also know 202 00:10:32,457 --> 00:10:34,155 Daisy had a lot of family... 203 00:10:34,329 --> 00:10:36,548 ♪ 204 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,376 ...who loved her 205 00:10:38,507 --> 00:10:41,031 and who are still i-in a lot of pain. 206 00:10:41,205 --> 00:10:44,034 ♪ 207 00:10:55,655 --> 00:10:57,482 I can see you. I can't hear you, though. 208 00:10:57,613 --> 00:10:59,223 [laughs] 209 00:10:59,310 --> 00:11:01,486 - I can see you. -Ah! 210 00:11:01,573 --> 00:11:02,662 Can you hear me now? 211 00:11:02,792 --> 00:11:05,099 Yes, ma'am. 212 00:11:05,229 --> 00:11:08,363 [Jillian] For the most part, the families I've spoken to-- 213 00:11:08,493 --> 00:11:11,714 some of these cases have been cold for 30 years. 214 00:11:11,845 --> 00:11:13,760 I feel incredibly moved 215 00:11:13,890 --> 00:11:18,678 by my connection with these families, 216 00:11:18,808 --> 00:11:22,682 and I feel a tremendous responsibility to them. 217 00:11:23,595 --> 00:11:26,163 So I'm Jillian, 218 00:11:26,294 --> 00:11:28,252 and I'm very honored to be talking to you 219 00:11:28,383 --> 00:11:29,906 about your sister. 220 00:11:30,037 --> 00:11:32,953 Tell me about who she was. 221 00:11:33,083 --> 00:11:35,346 [Bobby] Daisy was full of laughter. 222 00:11:35,477 --> 00:11:37,827 She was a very, very beautiful young lady. 223 00:11:37,958 --> 00:11:39,481 [melancholy music] 224 00:11:39,611 --> 00:11:41,439 She was just fun to be around. 225 00:11:41,570 --> 00:11:45,052 She was always happy. 226 00:11:45,182 --> 00:11:47,576 She had a beautiful voice. 227 00:11:47,707 --> 00:11:49,273 She could sing, and... 228 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,579 me and her, 229 00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:52,712 I guess we did duets. 230 00:11:52,842 --> 00:11:54,670 Me and her'd get together. 231 00:11:54,801 --> 00:11:57,673 We'd grab the broom, and we'd sing, and we'd clown, 232 00:11:57,804 --> 00:11:59,544 and we'd just enjoy each other. 233 00:11:59,675 --> 00:12:02,983 We took advantage of life. 234 00:12:03,113 --> 00:12:04,288 Yes. 235 00:12:04,375 --> 00:12:06,726 And for someone to just take 236 00:12:06,856 --> 00:12:08,336 her life like that... 237 00:12:08,466 --> 00:12:10,338 [sighs] 238 00:12:10,512 --> 00:12:12,819 ♪ 239 00:12:12,949 --> 00:12:14,559 [Tomeka] I call Daisy Nanny 240 00:12:14,690 --> 00:12:16,692 because here in Louisiana, 241 00:12:16,823 --> 00:12:19,477 that's how we express 242 00:12:19,564 --> 00:12:21,653 our godmothers, as Nanny. 243 00:12:21,784 --> 00:12:23,830 And she's also my mom's sister, 244 00:12:23,917 --> 00:12:25,527 so I'm her niece. 245 00:12:25,657 --> 00:12:27,747 She always treated me like, 246 00:12:27,877 --> 00:12:29,400 you know, I was her child. 247 00:12:29,531 --> 00:12:31,272 She loved everyone. 248 00:12:31,402 --> 00:12:33,535 Daisy just was a free spirit. 249 00:12:34,536 --> 00:12:37,191 This is Daisy and her husband, Benny. 250 00:12:37,365 --> 00:12:38,932 ♪ 251 00:12:39,062 --> 00:12:41,630 They were two peas in a pod. 252 00:12:41,761 --> 00:12:43,719 They had a good life together. 253 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,508 But guess it was around the early '80s. 254 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:52,554 Daisy was at a party. 255 00:12:54,643 --> 00:12:57,646 Someone put some drugs in her drink. 256 00:12:57,777 --> 00:13:00,910 [Tomeka] Like a date rape drug or something, 257 00:13:01,041 --> 00:13:04,044 and it completely changed her mentally. 258 00:13:04,174 --> 00:13:06,046 And she never bounced back from that. 259 00:13:07,874 --> 00:13:11,442 Round '85, '86, 260 00:13:11,573 --> 00:13:15,446 Daisy started using crack. 261 00:13:15,533 --> 00:13:18,798 I watched her life change dramatically. 262 00:13:18,928 --> 00:13:20,582 [somber music] 263 00:13:33,943 --> 00:13:34,683 [Jillian] Right. 264 00:13:41,516 --> 00:13:43,518 [disquieting music] 265 00:13:43,605 --> 00:13:47,043 The drugs messed her mind up a lot. 266 00:13:47,174 --> 00:13:49,785 It was just like at the snap of a finger, 267 00:13:49,916 --> 00:13:51,831 her whole demeanor would just change. 268 00:13:53,310 --> 00:13:56,052 I remember her having to go 269 00:13:56,139 --> 00:13:57,837 to the mental hospital 270 00:13:57,967 --> 00:13:59,664 or them having to call and come get her 271 00:13:59,795 --> 00:14:02,929 because she acting so, you know, erratic. 272 00:14:03,059 --> 00:14:05,496 You really couldn't distinguish 273 00:14:05,583 --> 00:14:07,977 the mental illness from the addiction. 274 00:14:08,151 --> 00:14:09,805 ♪ 275 00:14:29,912 --> 00:14:32,523 [Bobby] In 1996, Daisy withdrew herself 276 00:14:32,610 --> 00:14:34,047 from the family, 277 00:14:34,177 --> 00:14:36,353 and her marriage was... 278 00:14:36,484 --> 00:14:38,834 on the downfall. 279 00:14:38,921 --> 00:14:41,141 She wouldn't sleep at home. 280 00:14:41,271 --> 00:14:44,622 She was just like a nightcrawler. 281 00:14:44,753 --> 00:14:47,843 She was always out in the street at night. 282 00:14:47,974 --> 00:14:50,846 For me to see Daisy in that situation, 283 00:14:50,977 --> 00:14:53,153 it-it hurt more than anything, 284 00:14:53,283 --> 00:14:54,676 because this is your sister. 285 00:14:56,330 --> 00:14:57,548 [Jillian] How did you meet Daisy? 286 00:15:14,957 --> 00:15:16,132 Do you remember having a fight? 287 00:15:31,278 --> 00:15:32,975 [foreboding music] 288 00:15:39,242 --> 00:15:42,463 ♪ 289 00:15:42,593 --> 00:15:45,248 [Jillian] Can you tell me about that night? 290 00:15:59,262 --> 00:16:01,656 Do you remember what she was wearing? 291 00:16:12,580 --> 00:16:13,537 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 292 00:16:20,849 --> 00:16:22,155 [Sam laughs] 293 00:16:23,417 --> 00:16:25,114 ♪ 294 00:16:42,784 --> 00:16:44,351 [indistinct police radio chatter] 295 00:16:44,481 --> 00:16:47,093 [siren wailing] 296 00:16:47,223 --> 00:16:51,184 [Dana] On February 6th of 1996, 297 00:16:51,314 --> 00:16:52,446 our agency responded 298 00:16:52,533 --> 00:16:54,361 to the 900 block 299 00:16:54,448 --> 00:16:55,449 of Magnolia Street. 300 00:16:57,494 --> 00:17:01,411 The call was a gentleman who let his dog out, 301 00:17:01,542 --> 00:17:06,025 and the dog was barking at something under a building, 302 00:17:06,155 --> 00:17:07,417 so the gentleman looked under the building, 303 00:17:07,548 --> 00:17:09,245 and he saw what appeared to be 304 00:17:09,376 --> 00:17:11,247 the body of a person. 305 00:17:11,334 --> 00:17:13,554 ♪ 306 00:17:13,684 --> 00:17:16,470 [indistinct police radio chatter] 307 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:18,602 I was actually working patrol at the time. 308 00:17:20,561 --> 00:17:22,084 I just remember when they removed the victim 309 00:17:22,171 --> 00:17:23,651 from under the building 310 00:17:23,781 --> 00:17:25,392 and I looked at them and said, 311 00:17:25,522 --> 00:17:27,089 "That's Daisy McGuire." 312 00:17:28,395 --> 00:17:31,137 I knew Daisy. 313 00:17:31,267 --> 00:17:33,400 She lived, like, maybe a street or two over 314 00:17:33,530 --> 00:17:34,923 from my parents' home. 315 00:17:35,054 --> 00:17:37,491 And it was just a shock. 316 00:17:37,665 --> 00:17:41,016 ♪ 317 00:17:41,147 --> 00:17:43,279 [Bobby] We had to go to the morgue 318 00:17:43,410 --> 00:17:44,715 and identify her body. 319 00:17:44,889 --> 00:17:47,240 ♪ 320 00:17:49,851 --> 00:17:51,287 Huh. 321 00:17:51,374 --> 00:17:53,246 ♪ 322 00:17:53,376 --> 00:17:55,161 [sniffles] 323 00:17:55,857 --> 00:17:57,511 That-that wasn't a pretty picture. 324 00:17:57,685 --> 00:17:59,904 ♪ 325 00:18:00,035 --> 00:18:03,299 Daisy's face was beaten beyond recognition. 326 00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:07,390 It was not the person we knew. 327 00:18:07,477 --> 00:18:12,047 If it wasn't been for the tattoos on her hand, 328 00:18:12,178 --> 00:18:14,615 I would've said, "Nah, that's not my sister." 329 00:18:14,702 --> 00:18:16,747 ♪ 330 00:18:16,878 --> 00:18:18,749 [Tomeka] It broke my heart. 331 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,752 We never expected for anyone to hurt her. 332 00:18:23,232 --> 00:18:27,280 I mean, Daisy always did... 333 00:18:27,410 --> 00:18:31,153 take care of me and love me like her own. 334 00:18:31,284 --> 00:18:35,766 Our whole family was cheated from a beautiful spirit. 335 00:18:35,897 --> 00:18:38,813 [mournful music] 336 00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:40,293 [ominous music] 337 00:18:58,615 --> 00:19:00,095 Right. 338 00:19:00,226 --> 00:19:02,271 [indistinct police radio chatter] 339 00:19:02,402 --> 00:19:03,968 [siren wailing] 340 00:19:04,099 --> 00:19:06,101 [Bobby] It was Houma Police Department 341 00:19:06,232 --> 00:19:08,495 and, uh, Terrebonne Parish Sheriff Office. 342 00:19:08,582 --> 00:19:11,411 They were investigating at the time. 343 00:19:12,325 --> 00:19:16,111 I couldn't fathom, like, who would do that. 344 00:19:16,242 --> 00:19:20,550 It had to be a stranger and not someone that we knew. 345 00:19:20,637 --> 00:19:23,553 You know, I had all these questions, 346 00:19:23,684 --> 00:19:26,948 but the police department wasn't telling us anything. 347 00:19:27,078 --> 00:19:28,428 They were saying, you know, 348 00:19:28,558 --> 00:19:30,647 "This is still under investigation." 349 00:19:30,778 --> 00:19:33,476 That irritated all of us. 350 00:19:34,695 --> 00:19:38,133 [Dana] In law enforcement, you generally do not 351 00:19:38,264 --> 00:19:40,962 divulge those details 352 00:19:41,092 --> 00:19:44,139 because you don't know who's involved. 353 00:19:44,313 --> 00:19:47,447 ♪ 354 00:19:47,534 --> 00:19:48,752 [Bobby] Days went by. 355 00:19:48,883 --> 00:19:51,015 Weeks went by. 356 00:19:51,146 --> 00:19:53,670 We didn't hear nothing. 357 00:19:53,757 --> 00:19:56,064 Nobody had no answers, 358 00:19:56,195 --> 00:19:58,719 so me and my brothers got together. 359 00:19:58,806 --> 00:20:02,288 We finally go to the sheriff's office, 360 00:20:02,375 --> 00:20:06,466 and we asked him, "Well, how's the case going?" 361 00:20:06,596 --> 00:20:09,512 They said she passed away from hypothermia. 362 00:20:09,643 --> 00:20:12,646 That was a hard... pill to swallow. 363 00:20:12,820 --> 00:20:15,692 ♪ 364 00:20:19,522 --> 00:20:21,220 [Tomeka] The police, they tried to say 365 00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:23,700 that she just was doing drugs and froze to death. 366 00:20:23,831 --> 00:20:25,528 That's-that's what they tried to say. 367 00:20:25,659 --> 00:20:26,442 -[Paul] Yeah. -[Tomeka] Yeah. 368 00:20:26,573 --> 00:20:27,487 But it wasn't that cold 369 00:20:27,617 --> 00:20:28,879 for to kill her. 370 00:20:28,966 --> 00:20:30,185 [people] Mm-hmm. 371 00:20:30,272 --> 00:20:31,578 [Nire] Her body was bruised. 372 00:20:31,708 --> 00:20:33,057 She had been beaten as well. 373 00:20:33,188 --> 00:20:34,581 [Tomeka] Yeah. 374 00:20:34,668 --> 00:20:35,799 I mean, it's clear 375 00:20:35,930 --> 00:20:37,061 that something else happened 376 00:20:37,192 --> 00:20:40,500 more than hypothermia. 377 00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:41,501 [Bobby] And the sheriff was like, 378 00:20:41,631 --> 00:20:43,416 "Well, there was no foul play. 379 00:20:43,546 --> 00:20:44,721 We didn't find no foul play," and I'm saying, 380 00:20:44,852 --> 00:20:47,246 "No foul play? 381 00:20:47,376 --> 00:20:49,378 "Her nose is broken. Her jaw is broken. 382 00:20:49,509 --> 00:20:50,640 Her face is..." 383 00:20:53,121 --> 00:20:55,515 "And you tell me there was no foul play?" 384 00:20:57,343 --> 00:20:59,475 They didn't do a thorough investigation. 385 00:20:59,606 --> 00:21:00,824 [Nire] Investigation, exactly. 386 00:21:00,955 --> 00:21:02,435 Mm-hmm. 387 00:21:02,565 --> 00:21:04,001 [Bobby] We talking about 388 00:21:04,088 --> 00:21:05,786 you beat beyond recognition, 389 00:21:05,916 --> 00:21:07,091 and you mean to tell me there's no foul play? 390 00:21:07,222 --> 00:21:08,789 Man, who you fooling? 391 00:21:08,876 --> 00:21:09,964 Who are you fooling? 392 00:21:10,094 --> 00:21:13,924 This is-this is a joke, man. 393 00:21:14,055 --> 00:21:16,231 People beat-beat-beat your family like this, 394 00:21:16,362 --> 00:21:17,450 and then you just gotta sit here and say, 395 00:21:17,580 --> 00:21:18,712 "Accept it"? 396 00:21:18,842 --> 00:21:21,062 Not me. I don't accept it. 397 00:21:21,192 --> 00:21:22,759 And yeah, I'm angry. 398 00:21:22,846 --> 00:21:24,718 I'm supposed to be angry. This is my sister. 399 00:21:24,892 --> 00:21:27,982 ♪ 400 00:21:28,069 --> 00:21:30,724 And the sheriff tells us, 401 00:21:30,854 --> 00:21:32,334 "Well, you know, if-if y'all wanna find out 402 00:21:32,421 --> 00:21:34,467 "who killed her so bad, 403 00:21:34,597 --> 00:21:36,904 why don't y'all just go find out?" 404 00:21:37,034 --> 00:21:40,386 Now, why would you tell six angry men 405 00:21:40,516 --> 00:21:42,388 to go find out who killed their sister? 406 00:21:42,562 --> 00:21:45,347 ♪ 407 00:21:47,871 --> 00:21:49,873 That-that shook me for a loop. 408 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,222 It really did. 409 00:21:52,354 --> 00:21:54,400 'Cause many a days, 410 00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:58,360 I rolled around angry, crying, and upset, 411 00:21:58,447 --> 00:22:00,580 and, uh, 412 00:22:00,710 --> 00:22:03,322 it just--it-it-it-it took a lot out of us. 413 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,588 I don't feel like the investigation was thorough. 414 00:22:08,718 --> 00:22:12,679 She was an addict and a mental patient, 415 00:22:12,809 --> 00:22:17,205 so I don't feel that she was important enough 416 00:22:17,336 --> 00:22:19,599 to them to investigate. 417 00:22:19,773 --> 00:22:23,298 ♪ 418 00:22:24,255 --> 00:22:27,955 [Dana] If someone was to say that law enforcement 419 00:22:28,085 --> 00:22:31,785 didn't exhaust all of their resources 420 00:22:31,915 --> 00:22:34,701 because this person was African American, 421 00:22:34,831 --> 00:22:37,878 because this person was on drugs, 422 00:22:38,008 --> 00:22:41,011 that is absolutely not true, 423 00:22:41,142 --> 00:22:43,449 absolutely not true. 424 00:22:43,536 --> 00:22:45,929 We attempted to bring 425 00:22:46,016 --> 00:22:48,889 Daisy's case to an end, 426 00:22:49,019 --> 00:22:51,935 and sometimes you just run into that dead end. 427 00:22:52,022 --> 00:22:53,284 [eerie music] 428 00:23:08,865 --> 00:23:10,780 [Jillian] Do you think that those hoes 429 00:23:10,911 --> 00:23:13,522 deserve to be dead? 430 00:23:25,926 --> 00:23:28,232 ♪ 431 00:23:28,363 --> 00:23:30,583 [Bobby] Finally, the sheriff department told us 432 00:23:30,713 --> 00:23:32,062 the case was closed. 433 00:23:32,193 --> 00:23:35,762 That was a... sad day 434 00:23:35,892 --> 00:23:38,025 for the Simmons family. 435 00:23:38,155 --> 00:23:40,941 I just feel like they let us down. 436 00:23:41,071 --> 00:23:43,073 They let us down. 437 00:23:43,204 --> 00:23:45,902 [melancholy music] 438 00:23:46,076 --> 00:23:48,905 ♪ 439 00:23:56,391 --> 00:23:59,133 [Jillian] I'm very sorry that happened to you. 440 00:23:59,220 --> 00:24:02,397 What I'm hearing you say 441 00:24:02,528 --> 00:24:05,444 is that you weren't happy about how it was handled. 442 00:24:05,574 --> 00:24:08,229 Correct, absolutely. 443 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,274 I knew something wasn't right. 444 00:24:10,361 --> 00:24:12,276 I just couldn't put it all together 445 00:24:12,407 --> 00:24:14,453 because of what I was dealing with, but... 446 00:24:15,976 --> 00:24:18,805 ...it's just--it's not right. 447 00:24:18,935 --> 00:24:20,328 It's just not right. 448 00:24:20,459 --> 00:24:22,983 And then for it to go 449 00:24:23,113 --> 00:24:25,376 unanswered for 27 years... 450 00:24:25,551 --> 00:24:28,379 ♪ 451 00:24:30,425 --> 00:24:32,122 [Dana] And then next thing you know, 452 00:24:32,209 --> 00:24:35,691 20-plus years later, in 2018, 453 00:24:35,822 --> 00:24:37,911 is when we get a call from state police 454 00:24:38,041 --> 00:24:41,044 saying they had a Samuel Little in custody. 455 00:24:41,131 --> 00:24:43,351 The man who said-- the FBI says may be among 456 00:24:43,438 --> 00:24:44,787 the most prolific serial killers 457 00:24:44,918 --> 00:24:46,485 in U.S. history 458 00:24:46,615 --> 00:24:48,661 could be responsible for even more murders 459 00:24:48,791 --> 00:24:50,880 in southeast Louisiana. 460 00:24:51,011 --> 00:24:53,143 [news reporter] More than 20 years have gone by. 461 00:24:53,274 --> 00:24:57,060 Daisy McGuire, found dead February 6, 1996, 462 00:24:57,191 --> 00:24:58,801 in a remote area of Houma. 463 00:24:58,932 --> 00:25:01,064 She was only 40 years old. 464 00:25:01,195 --> 00:25:04,241 And now convicted serial killer Samuel Little 465 00:25:04,328 --> 00:25:06,635 confessed to Daisy's murder. 466 00:25:06,766 --> 00:25:09,246 [ominous music] 467 00:25:09,420 --> 00:25:12,728 ♪ 468 00:25:13,599 --> 00:25:15,383 We've been waiting all this time 469 00:25:15,514 --> 00:25:17,167 to know what happened to her. 470 00:25:18,429 --> 00:25:21,824 [Bobby] One of the detectives said, "We found the guy 471 00:25:21,955 --> 00:25:24,435 that killed Daisy." 472 00:25:24,566 --> 00:25:27,656 Law enforcements told us he was a serial killer 473 00:25:27,743 --> 00:25:30,050 serving three life sentences in California. 474 00:25:30,137 --> 00:25:32,400 ♪ 475 00:25:32,487 --> 00:25:34,794 [Paul] I mean, they didn't come out with the information 476 00:25:34,924 --> 00:25:37,318 of what she was actually killed from 477 00:25:37,448 --> 00:25:39,146 until that man came forward. 478 00:25:39,276 --> 00:25:40,626 [Tomeka] Right. 479 00:25:40,756 --> 00:25:44,760 I mean, honestly, I was shocked. 480 00:25:44,891 --> 00:25:47,676 I-I-I bet the police, 481 00:25:47,807 --> 00:25:51,375 the investigators were shocked, you know? 482 00:25:51,462 --> 00:25:53,377 'Cause they always thought she died from hypothermia. 483 00:25:53,464 --> 00:25:55,292 [dramatic music] 484 00:25:55,423 --> 00:25:57,164 [Bobby] It's a lot of pain. 485 00:25:57,294 --> 00:25:58,861 It's a lot of pain, because, I mean, 486 00:25:58,948 --> 00:26:01,560 every time I hear his name, 487 00:26:01,690 --> 00:26:05,825 I think of the day we got the call, 488 00:26:05,955 --> 00:26:09,524 and, uh... 489 00:26:09,611 --> 00:26:13,441 it's moments like this that take me back there. 490 00:26:13,528 --> 00:26:16,357 ♪ 491 00:26:21,362 --> 00:26:23,669 This is Magnolia Street. 492 00:26:23,799 --> 00:26:25,714 Every time I pass this place, 493 00:26:25,845 --> 00:26:28,369 I get the creeps. 494 00:26:28,499 --> 00:26:31,415 [melancholy music] 495 00:26:32,373 --> 00:26:34,897 This is the side Daisy body was found on, 496 00:26:35,028 --> 00:26:37,508 this side, 497 00:26:37,639 --> 00:26:41,425 in a-in a-in a-in a slot out here 498 00:26:41,556 --> 00:26:43,210 about yay wide, 499 00:26:43,340 --> 00:26:45,560 just wide enough to put a body in. 500 00:26:45,691 --> 00:26:47,606 [eerie music] 501 00:26:47,736 --> 00:26:50,609 He beat her, he raped her, 502 00:26:50,739 --> 00:26:53,350 he broke her nose, broke her jaw, 503 00:26:53,481 --> 00:26:55,091 and... 504 00:26:58,094 --> 00:27:01,228 ...he allowed my sister 505 00:27:01,315 --> 00:27:04,231 to die like she did. 506 00:27:04,361 --> 00:27:07,582 Uh... 507 00:27:07,713 --> 00:27:09,192 [exhales heavily] 508 00:27:09,323 --> 00:27:11,020 ...I don't know if she was... 509 00:27:11,107 --> 00:27:13,066 calling me to help her. 510 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,330 ♪ 511 00:27:16,460 --> 00:27:18,724 I wasn't there to protect her. 512 00:27:18,854 --> 00:27:20,813 I feel like I let her down. 513 00:27:20,900 --> 00:27:23,685 ♪ 514 00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:28,603 [Dana] When we had the meeting with the families, 515 00:27:28,734 --> 00:27:32,085 we showed them Samuel Little's photo. 516 00:27:32,215 --> 00:27:34,827 They had his name, his picture in the prison suit. 517 00:27:34,957 --> 00:27:36,524 Then they showed a younger version. 518 00:27:38,134 --> 00:27:39,309 I said, "I know this man." 519 00:27:41,572 --> 00:27:44,401 At the time, they called him LA. 520 00:27:45,576 --> 00:27:49,798 I seen Samuel Little and Daisy come by my older sister house. 521 00:27:49,929 --> 00:27:51,234 They walked right through my dad yard. 522 00:27:53,193 --> 00:27:54,934 That brick house. 523 00:27:55,064 --> 00:27:57,545 That's my older sister house right there. 524 00:27:57,676 --> 00:28:00,461 A lot of memories right here. 525 00:28:00,591 --> 00:28:03,290 This is where I first saw Samuel Little at, 526 00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:04,552 walking through this yard. 527 00:28:04,639 --> 00:28:06,597 [sighs] 528 00:28:07,511 --> 00:28:09,035 He passed me, walk right past me. 529 00:28:09,165 --> 00:28:11,994 We looked... eye to eye. 530 00:28:12,125 --> 00:28:14,736 That's how I remember his face. 531 00:28:14,867 --> 00:28:16,912 But we never knew 532 00:28:16,999 --> 00:28:19,001 two days later, he would kill her. 533 00:28:19,175 --> 00:28:21,787 ♪ 534 00:28:21,917 --> 00:28:23,658 [news reporter] Houma police chief Dana Coleman says 535 00:28:23,789 --> 00:28:26,356 his department started combing through old reports 536 00:28:26,443 --> 00:28:28,358 and discovered Samuel Little's name 537 00:28:28,445 --> 00:28:31,274 came up in 1996 538 00:28:31,405 --> 00:28:33,799 during the investigation into Daisy's death. 539 00:28:33,886 --> 00:28:36,018 Once we started researching the reports, 540 00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:37,411 you know, reading the reports, here it is, 541 00:28:37,541 --> 00:28:39,543 20-something years later, 542 00:28:39,674 --> 00:28:41,545 then I'm like, "My God, our detectives identified 543 00:28:41,676 --> 00:28:43,199 "Samuel Little in the case, 544 00:28:43,286 --> 00:28:44,810 but it's like he just disappeared." 545 00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:46,333 Maybe a lot of these other women 546 00:28:46,420 --> 00:28:48,117 wouldn't have got killed 547 00:28:48,248 --> 00:28:50,990 if they would've found out in '96. 548 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,602 [Dana] He went on to kill an abundance of other victims. 549 00:28:54,733 --> 00:28:56,952 That is scary. 550 00:28:57,083 --> 00:28:58,780 [woman] Do you think we will ever know 551 00:28:58,867 --> 00:29:00,477 the extent of his crimes? 552 00:29:01,914 --> 00:29:03,524 Oh, that's hard. 553 00:29:03,654 --> 00:29:05,918 Um... we may not ever know 554 00:29:06,005 --> 00:29:07,789 the extent. 555 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,878 I know at some point, um, I understood 556 00:29:10,009 --> 00:29:12,228 that it was 90-something victims. 557 00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:13,621 I believe it's more. 558 00:29:13,752 --> 00:29:17,016 [melancholy music] 559 00:29:17,146 --> 00:29:18,582 -[Paul] Well, we know that. -They didn't give a damn. 560 00:29:18,713 --> 00:29:20,019 They didn't care because-- 561 00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:21,150 [Tomeka] She wasn't important enough. 562 00:29:21,237 --> 00:29:23,674 No, she wasn't. No, she wasn't. 563 00:29:23,805 --> 00:29:24,937 -[Tomeka] Honestly... -[Edna] You know? 564 00:29:25,067 --> 00:29:26,373 [Tomeka] ...had they investigated, 565 00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:27,287 they would've discovered a serial killer. 566 00:29:27,417 --> 00:29:28,157 [Nire] That's right. 567 00:29:29,289 --> 00:29:30,856 [Bobby] If you would've caught this guy, 568 00:29:30,986 --> 00:29:32,683 then some of these other women wouldn't have died 569 00:29:32,771 --> 00:29:34,729 or may not have died, you know what I'm saying? 570 00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:37,601 I absolutely hear you. 571 00:29:38,472 --> 00:29:39,299 [Nire] So you think this would've happened 572 00:29:39,386 --> 00:29:40,735 in a white community 573 00:29:40,866 --> 00:29:42,476 that it would've been the same as-- 574 00:29:42,606 --> 00:29:44,173 if it was anywhere else in the other community, 575 00:29:44,304 --> 00:29:45,566 those people would've fight for them to find out 576 00:29:45,653 --> 00:29:46,567 what happened to their family members. 577 00:29:46,697 --> 00:29:48,395 Yes, they would have. 578 00:29:48,525 --> 00:29:50,049 It would have, but it-- guess what. 579 00:29:50,179 --> 00:29:51,398 It wasn't happening in a white community. 580 00:29:51,485 --> 00:29:53,139 It was happening in a Black community. 581 00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:54,270 Guess what. And they didn't- and they did not care. 582 00:29:54,401 --> 00:29:55,445 [Bobby] No. 583 00:29:58,013 --> 00:30:00,363 But still, it's not even just her. 584 00:30:00,494 --> 00:30:03,584 It's other unsolved murders around here, too, 585 00:30:03,714 --> 00:30:07,370 that, over time, just gone by the wayside. 586 00:30:07,501 --> 00:30:09,677 [foreboding music] 587 00:30:09,808 --> 00:30:14,160 It's like it's the- it's the same pattern, 588 00:30:14,247 --> 00:30:16,423 but the police keep brushing it aside. 589 00:30:16,597 --> 00:30:19,426 ♪ 590 00:30:22,298 --> 00:30:24,039 [Jillian] Sam Little managed to get away 591 00:30:24,170 --> 00:30:27,042 with brutalizing women of color, 592 00:30:27,173 --> 00:30:30,219 women in marginalized communities, 593 00:30:30,350 --> 00:30:34,397 and so many murders are still unsolved. 594 00:30:34,528 --> 00:30:37,009 [Bobby] Gracious God, we just thank you today. 595 00:30:37,139 --> 00:30:39,838 Thank you for the memories you've given us, God. 596 00:30:39,968 --> 00:30:42,492 We thank you right now. In Jesus' name. 597 00:30:42,579 --> 00:30:43,624 -[Edna] In Jesus' name. -Amen. 598 00:30:43,754 --> 00:30:45,104 [people] Amen. 599 00:30:45,278 --> 00:30:46,845 ♪ 600 00:30:46,975 --> 00:30:49,543 [Jillian] Like, these women 601 00:30:49,673 --> 00:30:52,198 need their stories, 602 00:30:52,328 --> 00:30:53,590 and they need their names... 603 00:30:56,332 --> 00:31:00,728 If I have to look at one more unnamed 1987, 604 00:31:00,859 --> 00:31:04,775 one more unnamed 1989, 605 00:31:04,906 --> 00:31:08,562 one more unnamed Black female, 606 00:31:08,649 --> 00:31:12,827 one more unnamed Black female... 607 00:31:12,958 --> 00:31:15,830 Every one of those unnamed Black females... 608 00:31:19,616 --> 00:31:22,010 ...can get their name back. 609 00:31:22,184 --> 00:31:24,926 ♪ 610 00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:31,585 Now I have a-a real need 611 00:31:31,715 --> 00:31:36,111 to bring justice to these victims 612 00:31:36,242 --> 00:31:37,896 before he dies. 613 00:31:41,682 --> 00:31:43,075 [Jillian] I didn't get it yet. You sent it? 614 00:31:48,297 --> 00:31:49,559 [Jillian] I'm not sure what I have in here. 615 00:31:49,690 --> 00:31:52,127 It's always a little bit of a wild card. 616 00:31:52,214 --> 00:31:55,217 ♪ 617 00:31:55,348 --> 00:31:56,871 There's a letter. 618 00:31:57,045 --> 00:31:58,960 ♪ 619 00:31:59,091 --> 00:32:00,483 "Hi, Baby Doll. 620 00:32:00,570 --> 00:32:03,095 Daddy loves his baby so much," 621 00:32:03,225 --> 00:32:04,270 underlined. 622 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,142 "I hope you always remember 623 00:32:07,273 --> 00:32:10,537 "that I care for you more than any woman alive today. 624 00:32:10,667 --> 00:32:13,801 "I hope this... pic will make you happy. 625 00:32:13,888 --> 00:32:16,064 Love, your Daddy, to his big mama." 626 00:32:17,544 --> 00:32:18,806 This is Alice. 627 00:32:18,893 --> 00:32:21,722 ♪ 628 00:32:31,384 --> 00:32:34,474 And what I see in this drawing of Alice is 629 00:32:34,604 --> 00:32:39,305 essentially what Sam... said, 630 00:32:39,435 --> 00:32:44,179 which is, she was very put together, 631 00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:47,226 well-dressed, and confident. 632 00:32:47,356 --> 00:32:51,143 Alice looks to me to be both sort of sad 633 00:32:51,273 --> 00:32:55,016 and like she's challenging you. 634 00:32:55,147 --> 00:32:58,106 What is potentially helpful about these drawings 635 00:32:58,237 --> 00:33:01,849 is that they are a tool. 636 00:33:01,980 --> 00:33:05,331 The FBI is releasing them, 637 00:33:05,461 --> 00:33:08,595 along with certain pieces of the confessions, 638 00:33:08,725 --> 00:33:12,860 and hopefully, a family member will see this picture 639 00:33:12,991 --> 00:33:14,905 in the paper and say, you know, 640 00:33:15,036 --> 00:33:17,038 "That was my mother," "That was my sister," 641 00:33:17,169 --> 00:33:18,866 to help identify them. 642 00:33:18,953 --> 00:33:21,303 ♪ 643 00:33:21,434 --> 00:33:23,305 We don't know anything about Alice yet 644 00:33:23,436 --> 00:33:26,308 other than what we know from Sam. 645 00:33:26,439 --> 00:33:30,356 I'm determined to find out more about her 646 00:33:30,443 --> 00:33:32,140 and-and get to know her. 647 00:33:32,271 --> 00:33:33,620 That's my job. 648 00:33:33,794 --> 00:33:36,623 ♪ 649 00:33:38,886 --> 00:33:40,540 [Sam] It's Sam. 650 00:33:40,670 --> 00:33:41,715 [operator] An inmate at... 651 00:33:41,845 --> 00:33:43,195 the California State Prison, 652 00:33:43,325 --> 00:33:44,587 Los Angeles County, 653 00:33:44,718 --> 00:33:46,372 Lancaster, California. 654 00:33:46,502 --> 00:33:47,895 To accept this call, 655 00:33:48,026 --> 00:33:50,463 say or dial five now. 656 00:33:50,593 --> 00:33:51,464 [line beeps] 657 00:33:53,248 --> 00:33:54,554 [Jillian] Hey, Mr. Sam. 658 00:33:57,078 --> 00:33:58,384 [Jillian] I'm doing pretty well. 659 00:33:58,514 --> 00:34:00,386 I just have a few questions 660 00:34:00,516 --> 00:34:02,170 I'd love to ask you. 661 00:34:02,692 --> 00:34:04,607 I wanna know about Alice. 662 00:34:09,003 --> 00:34:11,310 [Jillian] Because I live here in Los Angeles, 663 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,574 so I can go, and I can drive around, 664 00:34:14,661 --> 00:34:17,272 and I can imagine 665 00:34:17,403 --> 00:34:19,361 these stories that you're telling me. 666 00:34:21,059 --> 00:34:22,712 Do you remember what she looked like? 667 00:34:40,643 --> 00:34:41,905 [Jillian] Tell me where you met her. 668 00:34:53,700 --> 00:34:54,570 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 669 00:35:00,837 --> 00:35:03,013 Do you remember where you left her body? 670 00:35:32,608 --> 00:35:33,348 [Jillian] Right. 671 00:35:35,872 --> 00:35:36,743 [Jillian] That was in the paper. 672 00:35:39,093 --> 00:35:40,268 [Jillian] Do you remember what paper? 673 00:35:44,533 --> 00:35:46,753 [Jillian] Okay, well, you know if it's out there, 674 00:35:46,883 --> 00:35:48,624 I'm gonna find it. 675 00:35:51,497 --> 00:35:52,280 [Sam laughs] 676 00:35:57,590 --> 00:35:59,069 -[Jillian] Rick! -[Rick] Hello. 677 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:00,810 [Jillian] Hello. 678 00:36:00,941 --> 00:36:02,638 -Hey, you remember me? -[Jillian] Welcome. 679 00:36:02,725 --> 00:36:05,075 I'm very excited to have my friend 680 00:36:05,163 --> 00:36:06,773 and LA legend 681 00:36:06,903 --> 00:36:08,470 Rick Jackson, 682 00:36:08,557 --> 00:36:10,864 who's a retired homicide detective, 683 00:36:10,994 --> 00:36:14,737 go on this investigative trip with me today. 684 00:36:14,868 --> 00:36:16,348 Come on in. 685 00:36:16,435 --> 00:36:17,827 [Rick] Beautiful. 686 00:36:17,958 --> 00:36:20,134 We're investigating these confessions 687 00:36:20,265 --> 00:36:22,180 that I have from Sam 688 00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:25,574 and the information that he's given me. 689 00:36:25,661 --> 00:36:28,229 We are going to walk in the shoes, 690 00:36:28,316 --> 00:36:30,623 so to speak, of Alice, 691 00:36:30,753 --> 00:36:33,930 based on what Sam has told me. 692 00:36:34,061 --> 00:36:36,455 T, would you come say hi to Rick? 693 00:36:36,585 --> 00:36:38,674 Tariku is a little detective too. 694 00:36:38,805 --> 00:36:40,110 [Rick] How are you, man? 695 00:36:40,241 --> 00:36:41,199 [Jillian] And he loves mysteries. 696 00:36:41,329 --> 00:36:43,505 Ah. You read Hardy Boy books? 697 00:36:43,636 --> 00:36:45,681 Ah, you gotta read them. 698 00:36:45,812 --> 00:36:47,553 So Rick Jackson worked 699 00:36:47,683 --> 00:36:50,556 the original Sam Little case with Mitzi Roberts 700 00:36:50,686 --> 00:36:54,212 back in 2012, 2013, 701 00:36:54,342 --> 00:36:56,692 and he knows a lot about the case. 702 00:36:56,823 --> 00:37:00,348 He has a tremendous amount of knowledge, um, 703 00:37:00,435 --> 00:37:02,524 about homicide investigation, 704 00:37:02,655 --> 00:37:05,397 and, uh, I think it is really valuable 705 00:37:05,484 --> 00:37:08,443 to have somebody to bounce ideas off of. 706 00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:13,013 We got some audio from Sam yesterday 707 00:37:13,143 --> 00:37:15,233 that I wanna play for you where he was really being 708 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,409 pretty detailed about the body dump. 709 00:37:17,539 --> 00:37:19,802 And so welcome to the mess. 710 00:37:19,933 --> 00:37:22,501 -[Rick] Yeah. -[Jillian laughs] 711 00:37:22,588 --> 00:37:24,894 So, like, these are the actual drawings of his... 712 00:37:25,025 --> 00:37:27,245 -[Rick] Wow. -[Jillian] ...of victims. 713 00:37:27,332 --> 00:37:28,724 So that's Guadalupe, 714 00:37:28,855 --> 00:37:31,205 Guadalupe Apodaca... 715 00:37:31,336 --> 00:37:32,337 -[Rick] Right. -[Jillian] ...who was 716 00:37:32,467 --> 00:37:34,426 one of the Los Angeles victims 717 00:37:34,556 --> 00:37:37,080 that you got the DNA hit on. 718 00:37:37,211 --> 00:37:38,952 [Rick] Right, right. 719 00:37:39,082 --> 00:37:40,606 [Jillian] She was one of the first two... 720 00:37:40,736 --> 00:37:42,042 -[Rick] Yup. -[Jillian] ...that really set 721 00:37:42,172 --> 00:37:42,564 the investigation into motion, right? 722 00:37:42,695 --> 00:37:44,262 [Rick] Yeah. 723 00:37:44,392 --> 00:37:46,220 [Jillian] He did these drawings for me, 724 00:37:46,351 --> 00:37:48,918 but I feel like they have 725 00:37:49,049 --> 00:37:51,094 a kind of a presence to them. 726 00:37:53,358 --> 00:37:54,924 I keep the victims in my mind... 727 00:37:55,055 --> 00:37:56,186 -Yeah, yeah. -...you know, and keep them 728 00:37:56,317 --> 00:37:58,145 in my heart while I'm working. 729 00:37:58,232 --> 00:37:58,972 Well, I mean, you're in the midst 730 00:37:59,102 --> 00:38:00,626 of solving this case. 731 00:38:01,844 --> 00:38:04,586 [Jillian] I live with these victims every day. 732 00:38:04,673 --> 00:38:05,892 I live with them in my thoughts, 733 00:38:06,022 --> 00:38:07,546 I live with them in my words, 734 00:38:07,676 --> 00:38:09,722 I live with them in my dreams, 735 00:38:09,852 --> 00:38:14,553 and I am devoted to these cases. 736 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,555 [somber music] 737 00:38:16,685 --> 00:38:17,904 Here, you wanna come over here and listen 738 00:38:18,034 --> 00:38:19,122 -to some of the audio? -[Rick] Yeah. 739 00:38:19,253 --> 00:38:20,559 [Jillian] This is yesterday. 740 00:38:20,689 --> 00:38:21,690 [operator] ...Los Angeles County, 741 00:38:21,821 --> 00:38:23,736 Lancaster, California. 742 00:38:24,389 --> 00:38:26,695 [Jillian] Do you remember Alice, 743 00:38:26,826 --> 00:38:28,175 when you strangled her? 744 00:38:28,306 --> 00:38:29,307 Can you tell me about that? 745 00:38:34,312 --> 00:38:35,138 [Jillian] Uh-huh. 746 00:38:45,671 --> 00:38:46,498 [Jillian] Uh-huh. 747 00:38:53,592 --> 00:38:54,767 [Jillian] Did she say anything? 748 00:39:21,794 --> 00:39:23,317 [Jillian] Right. 749 00:39:23,448 --> 00:39:24,492 You know, it's weird. 750 00:39:24,623 --> 00:39:26,276 He almost tells that tale 751 00:39:26,364 --> 00:39:28,583 in kind of a romantic way. 752 00:39:28,714 --> 00:39:30,193 -It's-it's bizarre. -Mm-hmm. 753 00:39:30,324 --> 00:39:31,891 You know, he-- 754 00:39:32,021 --> 00:39:33,240 -I know, and-and I-- -"I hugged the body. 755 00:39:33,371 --> 00:39:34,589 -I smelled the body, but..." -Yeah. 756 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:35,721 "...she didn't know any of that, 757 00:39:35,851 --> 00:39:36,896 because she was already gone." 758 00:39:37,026 --> 00:39:38,985 [Jillian] Yeah, he's just 759 00:39:39,115 --> 00:39:40,900 -a reprehensible... -Human. 760 00:39:40,987 --> 00:39:42,728 -...monster, yeah. -Yeah, yeah. 761 00:39:42,858 --> 00:39:44,773 [eerie music] 762 00:39:44,904 --> 00:39:46,514 [Jillian] Sam has told the FBI 763 00:39:46,645 --> 00:39:48,560 this is Alice. 764 00:39:48,690 --> 00:39:50,518 He's described Alice to me 765 00:39:50,649 --> 00:39:55,305 as like a slim, dark-skinned Black woman 766 00:39:55,436 --> 00:39:57,960 with long, straight brown hair. 767 00:39:58,091 --> 00:40:00,354 -Yeah. -I've had Sam walk me 768 00:40:00,485 --> 00:40:01,877 through Alice. 769 00:40:02,008 --> 00:40:04,097 Basically, he met her. 770 00:40:04,227 --> 00:40:07,056 She was hanging out in a motel 771 00:40:07,187 --> 00:40:08,841 at 55th and Central. 772 00:40:08,971 --> 00:40:11,365 There was an alleyway behind the hotel. 773 00:40:11,496 --> 00:40:14,803 And then the possible Alice body dump, 774 00:40:14,934 --> 00:40:18,503 I've pretty much narrowed it down to two spots. 775 00:40:18,633 --> 00:40:20,722 There are only two spots it could've been, 776 00:40:20,853 --> 00:40:23,159 because he said there was an overpass. 777 00:40:23,290 --> 00:40:25,597 So there are only two overpasses on Central 778 00:40:25,727 --> 00:40:28,121 if you're coming down from here. 779 00:40:28,251 --> 00:40:29,644 -This is one. -[Rick] One-oh-five. 780 00:40:29,775 --> 00:40:31,907 [Jillian] The 105, and then... 781 00:40:32,038 --> 00:40:33,561 [Rick] Ninety-one? 782 00:40:33,692 --> 00:40:34,997 -[Jillian] Yes, exactly. -[Rick] Okay. 783 00:40:35,128 --> 00:40:37,957 And I think it has to be the 91. 784 00:40:38,087 --> 00:40:41,700 So our plan with Alice today 785 00:40:41,830 --> 00:40:43,702 is actually going there and looking 786 00:40:43,789 --> 00:40:47,401 at the geography of the locations 787 00:40:47,532 --> 00:40:50,926 and seeing how it matches or doesn't match 788 00:40:51,057 --> 00:40:52,014 his descriptions. 789 00:40:52,145 --> 00:40:53,755 Mm-hmm. 790 00:40:53,842 --> 00:40:55,453 [Jillian] If we're able to corroborate 791 00:40:55,540 --> 00:40:58,020 the pickup and dump site locations, 792 00:40:58,151 --> 00:41:00,196 then hopefully, that will help law enforcement 793 00:41:00,283 --> 00:41:02,677 match Alice to a cold case. 794 00:41:02,764 --> 00:41:05,419 ♪ 795 00:41:05,506 --> 00:41:09,379 Sam insists that there is a newspaper article 796 00:41:09,467 --> 00:41:11,251 that I've been digging and digging and digging for 797 00:41:11,338 --> 00:41:15,864 that, um, a-a bicyclist found her, 798 00:41:15,995 --> 00:41:19,955 um, and that he saw it in the paper the next day. 799 00:41:20,086 --> 00:41:22,436 So I've been digging and digging for that article. 800 00:41:22,567 --> 00:41:24,438 It's a-it's a bit of a needle in a haystack, 801 00:41:24,569 --> 00:41:25,352 but I'll find it. 802 00:41:25,439 --> 00:41:27,223 Right. 803 00:41:27,354 --> 00:41:30,400 [Jillian] The urgency for me is, 804 00:41:30,531 --> 00:41:33,316 these are victims who are out there, 805 00:41:33,447 --> 00:41:36,058 whose families are out there who have no answers. 806 00:41:36,189 --> 00:41:39,714 I want them to have their names back. 807 00:41:39,845 --> 00:41:42,978 I'm not stopping until this is done. 808 00:41:43,109 --> 00:41:45,807 [uneasy music] 809 00:41:53,815 --> 00:41:55,861 So what we're doing right now, basically, is, 810 00:41:55,991 --> 00:41:59,125 we're retracing Alice's steps 811 00:41:59,255 --> 00:42:02,258 and tracing Sam's ride with her. 812 00:42:02,432 --> 00:42:04,565 ♪ 813 00:42:04,696 --> 00:42:06,480 We're very close to the location 814 00:42:06,611 --> 00:42:09,091 of the motel that he was talking about 815 00:42:09,222 --> 00:42:11,659 when he met her. 816 00:42:11,833 --> 00:42:14,619 ♪ 817 00:42:25,804 --> 00:42:27,283 ♪ 818 00:42:46,172 --> 00:42:47,477 [Jillian] Oh, here we are, 55th. 819 00:42:47,608 --> 00:42:48,609 Okay. 820 00:42:48,696 --> 00:42:51,394 ♪ 821 00:42:55,442 --> 00:42:57,923 This is a map of all the locations 822 00:42:58,053 --> 00:42:59,446 in the Alice confession. 823 00:42:59,577 --> 00:43:01,143 Okay, there's Central. 824 00:43:01,274 --> 00:43:01,840 -There's 55 that way. -[Jillian] Fifty-fifth 825 00:43:01,970 --> 00:43:03,015 is this way. 826 00:43:03,145 --> 00:43:03,929 [Rick] So we're right up here. 827 00:43:04,059 --> 00:43:06,627 And then we're hoping 828 00:43:06,758 --> 00:43:10,196 that we'll-we'll see this pink motel with an alley 829 00:43:10,326 --> 00:43:11,545 where he met her. 830 00:43:11,632 --> 00:43:12,546 [Rick] Yeah. 831 00:43:12,677 --> 00:43:14,461 [eerie music] 832 00:43:14,592 --> 00:43:16,028 Okay, so let's see. 833 00:43:16,202 --> 00:43:17,856 ♪ 834 00:43:17,986 --> 00:43:20,293 Oh, there's an appliance store over there, 835 00:43:20,380 --> 00:43:22,034 -and it's pink. -[Jillian] Yeah. 836 00:43:22,164 --> 00:43:23,470 Looks like it's been there for years. 837 00:43:23,557 --> 00:43:26,604 -Yeah. -It doesn't mean, you know, 838 00:43:26,691 --> 00:43:28,867 25 years ago, it wasn't a little motel. 839 00:43:29,041 --> 00:43:30,782 ♪ 840 00:43:32,871 --> 00:43:35,264 What about right here? The hardware store? 841 00:43:35,395 --> 00:43:36,657 [Jillian] Look! 842 00:43:36,788 --> 00:43:38,877 This was totally a motel. 843 00:43:38,964 --> 00:43:40,574 [Rick] And it's pink. 844 00:43:40,705 --> 00:43:41,793 And is that an alley right there? 845 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,665 ♪ 846 00:43:47,450 --> 00:43:48,364 [camera shutter clicks] 847 00:44:07,601 --> 00:44:10,517 ♪ 848 00:44:13,651 --> 00:44:17,829 [Jillian] I feel, like, 99% sure that this is it. 849 00:44:17,959 --> 00:44:20,788 It seems consistent with the story. 850 00:44:20,919 --> 00:44:22,181 Should we ask? 851 00:44:22,311 --> 00:44:23,878 [Rick] Hey, how are you? 852 00:44:24,009 --> 00:44:25,445 Have you heard what this hardware store 853 00:44:25,575 --> 00:44:27,099 used to be 854 00:44:27,229 --> 00:44:29,101 a long time ago? 855 00:44:29,231 --> 00:44:30,798 [Jillian] Can you answer some questions 856 00:44:30,929 --> 00:44:32,844 about the-the buildings around here? 857 00:44:32,974 --> 00:44:34,019 [Rick] Those two buildings right there... 858 00:44:37,065 --> 00:44:39,111 [Rick] How long has that person owned that? 859 00:44:39,807 --> 00:44:41,722 Do you remember it being a motel? 860 00:44:41,853 --> 00:44:43,463 [speaking Spanish] 861 00:44:43,593 --> 00:44:46,074 [Rick] Okay. Thanks. Thanks so much. 862 00:44:47,206 --> 00:44:49,295 Obviously, there are rooms for lease up there, 863 00:44:49,425 --> 00:44:51,645 but he may have been calling that a motel. 864 00:44:51,776 --> 00:44:53,821 [Jillian] Yeah. It looks right. 865 00:44:53,952 --> 00:44:56,563 I mean, I can show Sam the pictures 866 00:44:56,694 --> 00:44:59,958 and see if he recognizes the building. 867 00:45:00,132 --> 00:45:03,439 ♪ 868 00:45:03,570 --> 00:45:06,834 So I like that hardware store spot. 869 00:45:06,921 --> 00:45:09,010 Feels like the right place. 870 00:45:09,097 --> 00:45:09,707 [Rick] Looks like the right kind of place. 871 00:45:09,837 --> 00:45:11,621 Looks like--yup. 872 00:45:11,752 --> 00:45:14,320 But she had a girlfriend who was there, 873 00:45:14,450 --> 00:45:15,930 and so he said, "I'll meet you later," 874 00:45:16,061 --> 00:45:17,932 which he often did. 875 00:45:18,019 --> 00:45:20,500 So he met her at a bus stop 876 00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:23,851 on Central and Slauson later. 877 00:45:23,982 --> 00:45:26,245 [ominous music] 878 00:45:28,377 --> 00:45:31,903 Sam liked to separate a woman from her pack. 879 00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:34,514 He'd circle her, hone in. 880 00:45:34,644 --> 00:45:36,690 He'd figure out what she needed-- 881 00:45:36,821 --> 00:45:40,607 beer, whiskey, dope, love. 882 00:45:40,738 --> 00:45:42,391 He knew the endgame he dreamed of 883 00:45:42,522 --> 00:45:44,263 was unacceptable, 884 00:45:44,393 --> 00:45:46,091 but he knew he could have it 885 00:45:46,221 --> 00:45:49,834 if he was brave or depraved enough to try. 886 00:45:50,008 --> 00:45:52,532 ♪ 887 00:45:58,103 --> 00:45:59,060 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 888 00:46:03,586 --> 00:46:06,502 Oh, here's a-here's a stop right there. 889 00:46:06,633 --> 00:46:08,809 [Jillian] Oh, yeah. And this would make sense. 890 00:46:08,896 --> 00:46:10,071 Like, she walked a few blocks down. 891 00:46:10,202 --> 00:46:12,682 That's about right. 892 00:46:12,813 --> 00:46:14,641 Now we're gonna drive straight down Central. 893 00:46:14,772 --> 00:46:16,121 And this is the drive 894 00:46:16,208 --> 00:46:18,645 that Sam would have taken with Alice 895 00:46:18,776 --> 00:46:19,777 before he killed her. 896 00:46:22,431 --> 00:46:24,477 Do you remember where you dumped the body? 897 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:36,489 [Jillian] Toward the beach? 898 00:46:43,278 --> 00:46:45,324 [Jillian] Like the overpass of the freeway? 899 00:46:48,414 --> 00:46:51,591 [suspenseful music] 900 00:46:52,635 --> 00:46:54,376 [Jillian] He said it was past Imperial. 901 00:46:54,507 --> 00:46:55,900 [Rick] Yeah. This is Imperial Highway. 902 00:46:56,030 --> 00:46:57,423 [Jillian] This is Imperial. 903 00:46:57,553 --> 00:46:59,860 So this could be the overpass. 904 00:46:59,991 --> 00:47:01,383 -[Rick] Right. -[Jillian] He also said 905 00:47:01,514 --> 00:47:03,733 all the way to the beach. 906 00:47:03,864 --> 00:47:05,997 Um, there is no beach, yeah. 907 00:47:06,127 --> 00:47:07,955 [Rick] Central doesn't go there. 908 00:47:08,086 --> 00:47:10,784 [Jillian] But he said it's far past Imperial... 909 00:47:10,871 --> 00:47:11,916 -[Rick] Right. -[Jillian] ...past Compton. 910 00:47:12,046 --> 00:47:13,656 -[Rick] Did he? -[Jillian] Yeah. 911 00:47:13,787 --> 00:47:14,527 So I think we wanna go to the next one, right? 912 00:47:14,614 --> 00:47:15,484 [Rick] Yeah, yeah. 913 00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:31,370 [Jillian] This could be the overpass. 914 00:47:31,500 --> 00:47:35,026 Okay, so this was-- basically, it's the off-ramp 915 00:47:35,156 --> 00:47:37,071 coming off of the freeway. 916 00:47:37,158 --> 00:47:39,378 So if he's coming south down Central... 917 00:47:39,508 --> 00:47:40,596 See, what's-- 918 00:47:40,683 --> 00:47:41,946 ...and he says he made a right, 919 00:47:42,076 --> 00:47:42,381 it's gotta be on the other side. 920 00:47:42,468 --> 00:47:43,599 Yeah. 921 00:47:56,264 --> 00:47:57,396 [Jillian] Yeah, like, out in the country. 922 00:48:05,752 --> 00:48:09,103 [dramatic music] 923 00:48:09,234 --> 00:48:12,063 [Jillian] According to Sam, he got out into the country. 924 00:48:12,193 --> 00:48:14,674 That's what he calls anything that isn't urban. 925 00:48:14,804 --> 00:48:15,762 -[Rick] Not built up. -[Jillian] Right. 926 00:48:17,503 --> 00:48:19,984 [Rick] That could've been the field 927 00:48:20,114 --> 00:48:21,246 or country, as he calls it. 928 00:48:21,333 --> 00:48:22,160 [Jillian] The country. 929 00:48:22,290 --> 00:48:23,335 Yeah. 930 00:48:23,509 --> 00:48:26,381 ♪ 931 00:48:28,601 --> 00:48:31,299 If this is the spot, 932 00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:33,475 you would've had to have been able to see 933 00:48:33,606 --> 00:48:36,914 the-the body dump from the bridge. 934 00:48:37,044 --> 00:48:38,524 Right? That's how he remembers it. 935 00:48:38,698 --> 00:48:41,614 ♪ 936 00:48:43,485 --> 00:48:45,052 -That's the most likely spot. -Right. 937 00:48:45,226 --> 00:48:47,750 ♪ 938 00:48:47,881 --> 00:48:49,578 I think we got some leads. 939 00:48:49,709 --> 00:48:52,364 I think there's a lot more digging to do. 940 00:48:52,494 --> 00:48:55,671 I also took a bunch of photos, 941 00:48:55,758 --> 00:48:57,499 and I'm gonna go back 942 00:48:57,630 --> 00:48:58,761 and talk to Sam. 943 00:48:58,848 --> 00:49:01,677 ♪ 944 00:49:07,553 --> 00:49:09,816 [somber music] 945 00:49:09,947 --> 00:49:12,340 I feel like... 946 00:49:12,427 --> 00:49:14,386 like I got a little closer to Alice today. 947 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,867 ♪ 948 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,436 I feel that if I was there, 949 00:49:21,567 --> 00:49:23,961 that if I can be another set of eyes, 950 00:49:24,091 --> 00:49:27,355 that in some way, 951 00:49:27,442 --> 00:49:29,749 I was there, then they weren't... 952 00:49:29,879 --> 00:49:33,057 just alone with a monster 953 00:49:33,187 --> 00:49:35,233 and that was the last the world ever saw of them. 954 00:49:37,757 --> 00:49:40,412 [pensive music] 955 00:49:40,586 --> 00:49:43,458 ♪ 956 00:49:48,811 --> 00:49:51,466 This is another drawing he did for me of Alice. 957 00:49:51,597 --> 00:49:53,947 That's Alice. 958 00:49:54,078 --> 00:49:56,602 She looks sad. 959 00:49:56,732 --> 00:49:59,605 He often draws petechial hemorrhaging 960 00:49:59,735 --> 00:50:02,782 in their eyes, which is... 961 00:50:02,912 --> 00:50:04,566 what happens when you're strangled. 962 00:50:04,740 --> 00:50:07,221 ♪ 963 00:50:07,352 --> 00:50:10,442 I drove out to the prison, 964 00:50:10,572 --> 00:50:12,183 and I had brought pictures with me. 965 00:50:12,270 --> 00:50:15,273 Sam, he described very clearly to me. 966 00:50:15,403 --> 00:50:18,363 He picked her up in this-this building. 967 00:50:18,493 --> 00:50:20,756 He described it as a motel. 968 00:50:20,843 --> 00:50:24,760 Now it's a, you know, hardware store sort of, 969 00:50:24,891 --> 00:50:27,589 but when I showed him a picture of it, 970 00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:29,765 he was able to identify that 971 00:50:29,896 --> 00:50:33,900 as, um, the building where he picked up Alice. 972 00:50:33,987 --> 00:50:36,468 But he didn't recognize the 91 overpass. 973 00:50:38,905 --> 00:50:41,473 He said he was going toward the beach, 974 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,390 but Central Avenue doesn't go toward the beach, 975 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:49,611 so I thought maybe he has his streets mixed up. 976 00:50:50,743 --> 00:50:53,746 Sam has told me that there was this article 977 00:50:53,876 --> 00:50:55,356 about it in the paper, that somebody 978 00:50:55,443 --> 00:50:57,706 had been riding a bicycle, 979 00:50:57,837 --> 00:51:00,840 had seen the body from an overpass. 980 00:51:01,667 --> 00:51:03,538 He was tracking his kills in the paper. 981 00:51:03,625 --> 00:51:05,801 He's a news junkie; he loves the news, 982 00:51:05,888 --> 00:51:07,020 watches the news all day long. 983 00:51:08,891 --> 00:51:10,980 So I thought it's very likely 984 00:51:11,068 --> 00:51:13,113 that that article is out there somewhere. 985 00:51:13,244 --> 00:51:15,202 [disquieting music] 986 00:51:15,333 --> 00:51:17,770 If it's out there, I'll find it 987 00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:21,078 if I just keep digging and digging into databases, 988 00:51:21,208 --> 00:51:24,298 scanning the newspapers, 989 00:51:24,429 --> 00:51:29,173 and it's a laborious process, 990 00:51:29,260 --> 00:51:31,827 especially when you're like, "There's nothing. 991 00:51:31,958 --> 00:51:33,438 "There's nothing here. 992 00:51:33,568 --> 00:51:35,309 "There's nothing here at this time 993 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,311 "that looks like this. 994 00:51:37,442 --> 00:51:40,445 "There-there's no victim described like this. 995 00:51:40,575 --> 00:51:44,884 There's no murder reported." 996 00:51:45,014 --> 00:51:48,714 But eventually, I did find an article. 997 00:51:48,888 --> 00:51:51,151 ♪ 998 00:51:51,282 --> 00:51:53,327 So I'm looking at the paper, I'm looking at the paper, 999 00:51:53,458 --> 00:51:55,416 but it's from a totally different location, 1000 00:51:55,547 --> 00:51:57,070 ten miles south 1001 00:51:57,201 --> 00:51:58,289 of where he said he dumped her, 1002 00:51:58,419 --> 00:52:00,204 in the city of Long Beach. 1003 00:52:01,030 --> 00:52:03,424 I'm like, "So it wasn't the beach. 1004 00:52:03,555 --> 00:52:05,557 It was Long Beach." 1005 00:52:05,731 --> 00:52:08,690 ♪ 1006 00:52:08,821 --> 00:52:10,866 So maybe that's what he meant by beach. 1007 00:52:13,042 --> 00:52:15,958 If we can confirm this is the right location, 1008 00:52:16,089 --> 00:52:18,700 we might actually help solve the Alice case. 1009 00:52:18,874 --> 00:52:19,788 ♪