[Jillian] In 2018,
Sam Little confessed
to 13 murders to me.
It left me, like, frozen.
Then he told me about a victim in Omaha
that was left in a barrel,
and I said, "Stop.
Say that again."
I wasn't trying to solve a murder.
I was just listening.
And I got that weird little detail
that helped law enforcement put the pieces together.
That was how they identified her.
It was Agatha White Buffalo.
[news reporter] Her murder is no longer a cold case.
Omaha police tell me it's officially classified now
as exceptionally clear.
[Jillian] That lit a fire in me
to try to identify more victims
before he dies.
So this is Audrey.
Did you ever ask Sam about Audrey?
My mother?
Yes.
How much do you wanna know?
I have a compulsion
or an obsession
because we have limited time.
It is a mission.
It's about these victims.
[eerie music]
♪
[Michael] So are we rolling? We're going?
-Going? -Okay.
All right.
I'm Michael Connelly,
and this is Murder Book.
So I'm here with Jillian Lauren,
who is writing a book about Sam Little.
She's been talking to Sam.
She's, uh, elicited some of his confessions.
Right.
And I would daresay she may know more about Sam
than anybody other than Sam himself.
[ominous music]
♪
[Jillian] He's in prison,
but then, of course,
I was told by detectives
that they suspected there were many more murders,
many, many more victims
all across the country,
and, I, uh, was haunted by that idea.
What is it you're doing?
You're out there trying to solve cases.
Yeah.
I just wound up in this very strange position
where, uh, uh, I have the ear of this killer.
Mm-hmm.
♪
Mr. Sam.
Can I ask you a couple of questions?
Most people don't interview killers
over the course of two years,
and I sort of speak Sam.
♪
[Jillian] Yes.
You're the most important person to me,
and I am listening to you.
It's definitely a really expansive case,
and then also, there's this broader social context.
I think that Sam is a lot smarter
than he lets on,
and there is a big social aspect
to how he chose his victims.
So I wanna know what type of woman.
As a predator, I wanna know
how you knew.
[Jillian] I mean, and you're gonna pick
the weakest one, right?
[Jillian] Right.
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
♪
[news reporter] The FBI calls Samuel Little
America's most prolific serial killer.
[Sam] If you want me to tell my secrets to you,
come down here and look me in my eye
while I do.
[Jillian] My deal with the devil is,
"You will not die alone if you tell me the truth."
[Sam] I'm not gonna admit to those girls.
[Jillian] I don't believe you.
So you tell me the truth right now.
[news reporter] Little strangled 93 victims
between 1970 and 2005.
[Jillian] He was tried and got off
again and again and again.
[news reporter] Investigators believe
that Samuel Little killed more people
than serial killers Ted Bundy,
John Wayne Gacy, and Jeffrey Dahmer combined.
[Jillian] If you weren't locked up,
I'd probably be dead by now.
[Sam] You're right.
[Jillian] After Sam started confessing to me,
then it was like the floodgates opened,
and he told me about another one
and another one, another one.
And then I'm dealing with law enforcement,
and Texas Ranger James Holland
came into the picture.
He is the lead investigator on this now.
♪
And it became a nationwide effort
to solve these cold cases.
All right, now, this-this one is later on,
around '91, '92.
Remember some young lady you dumped?
-See if she-- -Oh, ho, ho! God, yeah.
-What do you know? -I did that to her.
What do you remember about her?
Them eyes and that face.
[news reporter] Seventy-eight-year-old
Samuel Little [who the DA says] confessed to killing
Denise Christie Brothers in Odessa in 1994,
but that confession may be just one of many.
[Jillian] And then Sam's confessions
started to pile up.
Thirteen murders
turned into 23,
turned into 33.
[news reporter] His killing spree could span
19 states over three decades.
[Jillian] Sam was talking about all of these cold cases,
all of these murders that had been long unsolved
throughout the United States.
[news reporter] Now investigators
from Texas to Indiana to Arizona
who have interviewed Little
are considering their own cases.
Okay.
[news reporter] Investigators believe
that Samuel Little killed more people
than serial killers Ted Bundy,
John Wayne Gacy,
and Jeffrey Dahmer combined.
[Jillian] Ultimately,
Sam confessed to 93 murders.
[news reporter] Seventy-nine-year-old
Samuel Little, the most prolific serial killer
in U.S. history, according to the FBI.
Ninety-three women,
which is like--
that number is incomprehensible,
but that is the number of lives lost.
I always thought he was...
good for many.
I never thought...
that many.
It's mind-boggling.
He would've never gained that title
had the system dealt with him correctly,
so it just makes me sad.
He's the most prolific serial killer
in American history,
and I'm the only journalist he'll talk to,
and it's a great responsibility.
Little is in poor health, but he's still talking a lot
and drawing pictures.
Tonight time is running out to verify his confessions
and provide closure to the victims' families.
[somber music]
[Jillian] Do you remember one of your victims?
Her name is Daisy.
♪
Sam explains to me
that he believes he owns the souls
of every one of his victims.
They belong to him.
"Mine," he says over and over.
He told them he loved them.
He told them they were his forever.
Sometimes he made them say it back to him
before he killed them.
♪
Daisy.
She's from Houma, Louisiana.
You remember her?
[Jillian] Daisy's life was taken from her in 1996,
and her murder went unsolved for decades.
♪
Mr. Sam,
do you remember anything about Daisy?
[Jillian] Right.
Do you think about the families
of the women who you murdered?
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
♪
[Jillian] The families are also Sam's victims.
I feel beholden to them,
and I also know
Daisy had a lot of family...
♪
...who loved her
and who are still i-in a lot of pain.
♪
I can see you. I can't hear you, though.
[laughs]
- I can see you. -Ah!
Can you hear me now?
Yes, ma'am.
[Jillian] For the most part, the families I've spoken to--
some of these cases have been cold for 30 years.
I feel incredibly moved
by my connection with these families,
and I feel a tremendous responsibility to them.
So I'm Jillian,
and I'm very honored to be talking to you
about your sister.
Tell me about who she was.
[Bobby] Daisy was full of laughter.
She was a very, very beautiful young lady.
[melancholy music]
She was just fun to be around.
She was always happy.
She had a beautiful voice.
She could sing, and...
me and her,
I guess we did duets.
Me and her'd get together.
We'd grab the broom, and we'd sing, and we'd clown,
and we'd just enjoy each other.
We took advantage of life.
Yes.
And for someone to just take
her life like that...
[sighs]
♪
[Tomeka] I call Daisy Nanny
because here in Louisiana,
that's how we express
our godmothers, as Nanny.
And she's also my mom's sister,
so I'm her niece.
She always treated me like,
you know, I was her child.
She loved everyone.
Daisy just was a free spirit.
This is Daisy and her husband, Benny.
♪
They were two peas in a pod.
They had a good life together.
But guess it was around the early '80s.
Daisy was at a party.
Someone put some drugs in her drink.
[Tomeka] Like a date rape drug or something,
and it completely changed her mentally.
And she never bounced back from that.
Round '85, '86,
Daisy started using crack.
I watched her life change dramatically.
[somber music]
[Jillian] Right.
[disquieting music]
The drugs messed her mind up a lot.
It was just like at the snap of a finger,
her whole demeanor would just change.
I remember her having to go
to the mental hospital
or them having to call and come get her
because she acting so, you know, erratic.
You really couldn't distinguish
the mental illness from the addiction.
♪
[Bobby] In 1996, Daisy withdrew herself
from the family,
and her marriage was...
on the downfall.
She wouldn't sleep at home.
She was just like a nightcrawler.
She was always out in the street at night.
For me to see Daisy in that situation,
it-it hurt more than anything,
because this is your sister.
[Jillian] How did you meet Daisy?
Do you remember having a fight?
[foreboding music]
♪
[Jillian] Can you tell me about that night?
Do you remember what she was wearing?
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
[Sam laughs]
♪
[indistinct police radio chatter]
[siren wailing]
[Dana] On February 6th of 1996,
our agency responded
to the 900 block
of Magnolia Street.
The call was a gentleman who let his dog out,
and the dog was barking at something under a building,
so the gentleman looked under the building,
and he saw what appeared to be
the body of a person.
♪
[indistinct police radio chatter]
I was actually working patrol at the time.
I just remember when they removed the victim
from under the building
and I looked at them and said,
"That's Daisy McGuire."
I knew Daisy.
She lived, like, maybe a street or two over
from my parents' home.
And it was just a shock.
♪
[Bobby] We had to go to the morgue
and identify her body.
♪
Huh.
♪
[sniffles]
That-that wasn't a pretty picture.
♪
Daisy's face was beaten beyond recognition.
It was not the person we knew.
If it wasn't been for the tattoos on her hand,
I would've said, "Nah, that's not my sister."
♪
[Tomeka] It broke my heart.
We never expected for anyone to hurt her.
I mean, Daisy always did...
take care of me and love me like her own.
Our whole family was cheated from a beautiful spirit.
[mournful music]
[ominous music]
Right.
[indistinct police radio chatter]
[siren wailing]
[Bobby] It was Houma Police Department
and, uh, Terrebonne Parish Sheriff Office.
They were investigating at the time.
I couldn't fathom, like, who would do that.
It had to be a stranger and not someone that we knew.
You know, I had all these questions,
but the police department wasn't telling us anything.
They were saying, you know,
"This is still under investigation."
That irritated all of us.
[Dana] In law enforcement, you generally do not
divulge those details
because you don't know who's involved.
♪
[Bobby] Days went by.
Weeks went by.
We didn't hear nothing.
Nobody had no answers,
so me and my brothers got together.
We finally go to the sheriff's office,
and we asked him, "Well, how's the case going?"
They said she passed away from hypothermia.
That was a hard... pill to swallow.
♪
[Tomeka] The police, they tried to say
that she just was doing drugs and froze to death.
That's-that's what they tried to say.
-[Paul] Yeah. -[Tomeka] Yeah.
But it wasn't that cold
for to kill her.
[people] Mm-hmm.
[Nire] Her body was bruised.
She had been beaten as well.
[Tomeka] Yeah.
I mean, it's clear
that something else happened
more than hypothermia.
[Bobby] And the sheriff was like,
"Well, there was no foul play.
We didn't find no foul play," and I'm saying,
"No foul play?
"Her nose is broken. Her jaw is broken.
Her face is..."
"And you tell me there was no foul play?"
They didn't do a thorough investigation.
[Nire] Investigation, exactly.
Mm-hmm.
[Bobby] We talking about
you beat beyond recognition,
and you mean to tell me there's no foul play?
Man, who you fooling?
Who are you fooling?
This is-this is a joke, man.
People beat-beat-beat your family like this,
and then you just gotta sit here and say,
"Accept it"?
Not me. I don't accept it.
And yeah, I'm angry.
I'm supposed to be angry. This is my sister.
♪
And the sheriff tells us,
"Well, you know, if-if y'all wanna find out
"who killed her so bad,
why don't y'all just go find out?"
Now, why would you tell six angry men
to go find out who killed their sister?
♪
That-that shook me for a loop.
It really did.
'Cause many a days,
I rolled around angry, crying, and upset,
and, uh,
it just--it-it-it-it took a lot out of us.
I don't feel like the investigation was thorough.
She was an addict and a mental patient,
so I don't feel that she was important enough
to them to investigate.
♪
[Dana] If someone was to say that law enforcement
didn't exhaust all of their resources
because this person was African American,
because this person was on drugs,
that is absolutely not true,
absolutely not true.
We attempted to bring
Daisy's case to an end,
and sometimes you just run into that dead end.
[eerie music]
[Jillian] Do you think that those hoes
deserve to be dead?
♪
[Bobby] Finally, the sheriff department told us
the case was closed.
That was a... sad day
for the Simmons family.
I just feel like they let us down.
They let us down.
[melancholy music]
♪
[Jillian] I'm very sorry that happened to you.
What I'm hearing you say
is that you weren't happy about how it was handled.
Correct, absolutely.
I knew something wasn't right.
I just couldn't put it all together
because of what I was dealing with, but...
...it's just--it's not right.
It's just not right.
And then for it to go
unanswered for 27 years...
♪
[Dana] And then next thing you know,
20-plus years later, in 2018,
is when we get a call from state police
saying they had a Samuel Little in custody.
The man who said-- the FBI says may be among
the most prolific serial killers
in U.S. history
could be responsible for even more murders
in southeast Louisiana.
[news reporter] More than 20 years have gone by.
Daisy McGuire, found dead February 6, 1996,
in a remote area of Houma.
She was only 40 years old.
And now convicted serial killer Samuel Little
confessed to Daisy's murder.
[ominous music]
♪
We've been waiting all this time
to know what happened to her.
[Bobby] One of the detectives said, "We found the guy
that killed Daisy."
Law enforcements told us he was a serial killer
serving three life sentences in California.
♪
[Paul] I mean, they didn't come out with the information
of what she was actually killed from
until that man came forward.
[Tomeka] Right.
I mean, honestly, I was shocked.
I-I-I bet the police,
the investigators were shocked, you know?
'Cause they always thought she died from hypothermia.
[dramatic music]
[Bobby] It's a lot of pain.
It's a lot of pain, because, I mean,
every time I hear his name,
I think of the day we got the call,
and, uh...
it's moments like this that take me back there.
♪
This is Magnolia Street.
Every time I pass this place,
I get the creeps.
[melancholy music]
This is the side Daisy body was found on,
this side,
in a-in a-in a-in a slot out here
about yay wide,
just wide enough to put a body in.
[eerie music]
He beat her, he raped her,
he broke her nose, broke her jaw,
and...
...he allowed my sister
to die like she did.
Uh...
[exhales heavily]
...I don't know if she was...
calling me to help her.
♪
I wasn't there to protect her.
I feel like I let her down.
♪
[Dana] When we had the meeting with the families,
we showed them Samuel Little's photo.
They had his name, his picture in the prison suit.
Then they showed a younger version.
I said, "I know this man."
At the time, they called him LA.
I seen Samuel Little and Daisy come by my older sister house.
They walked right through my dad yard.
That brick house.
That's my older sister house right there.
A lot of memories right here.
This is where I first saw Samuel Little at,
walking through this yard.
[sighs]
He passed me, walk right past me.
We looked... eye to eye.
That's how I remember his face.
But we never knew
two days later, he would kill her.
♪
[news reporter] Houma police chief Dana Coleman says
his department started combing through old reports
and discovered Samuel Little's name
came up in 1996
during the investigation into Daisy's death.
Once we started researching the reports,
you know, reading the reports, here it is,
20-something years later,
then I'm like, "My God, our detectives identified
"Samuel Little in the case,
but it's like he just disappeared."
Maybe a lot of these other women
wouldn't have got killed
if they would've found out in '96.
[Dana] He went on to kill an abundance of other victims.
That is scary.
[woman] Do you think we will ever know
the extent of his crimes?
Oh, that's hard.
Um... we may not ever know
the extent.
I know at some point, um, I understood
that it was 90-something victims.
I believe it's more.
[melancholy music]
-[Paul] Well, we know that. -They didn't give a damn.
They didn't care because--
[Tomeka] She wasn't important enough.
No, she wasn't. No, she wasn't.
-[Tomeka] Honestly... -[Edna] You know?
[Tomeka] ...had they investigated,
they would've discovered a serial killer.
[Nire] That's right.
[Bobby] If you would've caught this guy,
then some of these other women wouldn't have died
or may not have died, you know what I'm saying?
I absolutely hear you.
[Nire] So you think this would've happened
in a white community
that it would've been the same as--
if it was anywhere else in the other community,
those people would've fight for them to find out
what happened to their family members.
Yes, they would have.
It would have, but it-- guess what.
It wasn't happening in a white community.
It was happening in a Black community.
Guess what. And they didn't- and they did not care.
[Bobby] No.
But still, it's not even just her.
It's other unsolved murders around here, too,
that, over time, just gone by the wayside.
[foreboding music]
It's like it's the- it's the same pattern,
but the police keep brushing it aside.
♪
[Jillian] Sam Little managed to get away
with brutalizing women of color,
women in marginalized communities,
and so many murders are still unsolved.
[Bobby] Gracious God, we just thank you today.
Thank you for the memories you've given us, God.
We thank you right now. In Jesus' name.
-[Edna] In Jesus' name. -Amen.
[people] Amen.
♪
[Jillian] Like, these women
need their stories,
and they need their names...
If I have to look at one more unnamed 1987,
one more unnamed 1989,
one more unnamed Black female,
one more unnamed Black female...
Every one of those unnamed Black females...
...can get their name back.
♪
Now I have a-a real need
to bring justice to these victims
before he dies.
[Jillian] I didn't get it yet. You sent it?
[Jillian] I'm not sure what I have in here.
It's always a little bit of a wild card.
♪
There's a letter.
♪
"Hi, Baby Doll.
Daddy loves his baby so much,"
underlined.
"I hope you always remember
"that I care for you more than any woman alive today.
"I hope this... pic will make you happy.
Love, your Daddy, to his big mama."
This is Alice.
♪
And what I see in this drawing of Alice is
essentially what Sam... said,
which is, she was very put together,
well-dressed, and confident.
Alice looks to me to be both sort of sad
and like she's challenging you.
What is potentially helpful about these drawings
is that they are a tool.
The FBI is releasing them,
along with certain pieces of the confessions,
and hopefully, a family member will see this picture
in the paper and say, you know,
"That was my mother," "That was my sister,"
to help identify them.
♪
We don't know anything about Alice yet
other than what we know from Sam.
I'm determined to find out more about her
and-and get to know her.
That's my job.
♪
[Sam] It's Sam.
[operator] An inmate at...
the California State Prison,
Los Angeles County,
Lancaster, California.
To accept this call,
say or dial five now.
[line beeps]
[Jillian] Hey, Mr. Sam.
[Jillian] I'm doing pretty well.
I just have a few questions
I'd love to ask you.
I wanna know about Alice.
[Jillian] Because I live here in Los Angeles,
so I can go, and I can drive around,
and I can imagine
these stories that you're telling me.
Do you remember what she looked like?
[Jillian] Tell me where you met her.
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
Do you remember where you left her body?
[Jillian] Right.
[Jillian] That was in the paper.
[Jillian] Do you remember what paper?
[Jillian] Okay, well, you know if it's out there,
I'm gonna find it.
[Sam laughs]
-[Jillian] Rick! -[Rick] Hello.
[Jillian] Hello.
-Hey, you remember me? -[Jillian] Welcome.
I'm very excited to have my friend
and LA legend
Rick Jackson,
who's a retired homicide detective,
go on this investigative trip with me today.
Come on in.
[Rick] Beautiful.
We're investigating these confessions
that I have from Sam
and the information that he's given me.
We are going to walk in the shoes,
so to speak, of Alice,
based on what Sam has told me.
T, would you come say hi to Rick?
Tariku is a little detective too.
[Rick] How are you, man?
[Jillian] And he loves mysteries.
Ah. You read Hardy Boy books?
Ah, you gotta read them.
So Rick Jackson worked
the original Sam Little case with Mitzi Roberts
back in 2012, 2013,
and he knows a lot about the case.
He has a tremendous amount of knowledge, um,
about homicide investigation,
and, uh, I think it is really valuable
to have somebody to bounce ideas off of.
We got some audio from Sam yesterday
that I wanna play for you where he was really being
pretty detailed about the body dump.
And so welcome to the mess.
-[Rick] Yeah. -[Jillian laughs]
So, like, these are the actual drawings of his...
-[Rick] Wow. -[Jillian] ...of victims.
So that's Guadalupe,
Guadalupe Apodaca...
-[Rick] Right. -[Jillian] ...who was
one of the Los Angeles victims
that you got the DNA hit on.
[Rick] Right, right.
[Jillian] She was one of the first two...
-[Rick] Yup. -[Jillian] ...that really set
the investigation into motion, right?
[Rick] Yeah.
[Jillian] He did these drawings for me,
but I feel like they have
a kind of a presence to them.
I keep the victims in my mind...
-Yeah, yeah. -...you know, and keep them
in my heart while I'm working.
Well, I mean, you're in the midst
of solving this case.
[Jillian] I live with these victims every day.
I live with them in my thoughts,
I live with them in my words,
I live with them in my dreams,
and I am devoted to these cases.
[somber music]
Here, you wanna come over here and listen
-to some of the audio? -[Rick] Yeah.
[Jillian] This is yesterday.
[operator] ...Los Angeles County,
Lancaster, California.
[Jillian] Do you remember Alice,
when you strangled her?
Can you tell me about that?
[Jillian] Uh-huh.
[Jillian] Did she say anything?
[Jillian] Right.
You know, it's weird.
He almost tells that tale
in kind of a romantic way.
-It's-it's bizarre. -Mm-hmm.
You know, he--
-I know, and-and I-- -"I hugged the body.
-I smelled the body, but..." -Yeah.
"...she didn't know any of that,
because she was already gone."
[Jillian] Yeah, he's just
-a reprehensible... -Human.
-...monster, yeah. -Yeah, yeah.
[eerie music]
[Jillian] Sam has told the FBI
this is Alice.
He's described Alice to me
as like a slim, dark-skinned Black woman
with long, straight brown hair.
-Yeah. -I've had Sam walk me
through Alice.
Basically, he met her.
She was hanging out in a motel
at 55th and Central.
There was an alleyway behind the hotel.
And then the possible Alice body dump,
I've pretty much narrowed it down to two spots.
There are only two spots it could've been,
because he said there was an overpass.
So there are only two overpasses on Central
if you're coming down from here.
-This is one. -[Rick] One-oh-five.
[Jillian] The 105, and then...
[Rick] Ninety-one?
-[Jillian] Yes, exactly. -[Rick] Okay.
And I think it has to be the 91.
So our plan with Alice today
is actually going there and looking
at the geography of the locations
and seeing how it matches or doesn't match
his descriptions.
Mm-hmm.
[Jillian] If we're able to corroborate
the pickup and dump site locations,
then hopefully, that will help law enforcement
match Alice to a cold case.
♪
Sam insists that there is a newspaper article
that I've been digging and digging and digging for
that, um, a-a bicyclist found her,
um, and that he saw it in the paper the next day.
So I've been digging and digging for that article.
It's a-it's a bit of a needle in a haystack,
but I'll find it.
Right.
[Jillian] The urgency for me is,
these are victims who are out there,
whose families are out there who have no answers.
I want them to have their names back.
I'm not stopping until this is done.
[uneasy music]
So what we're doing right now, basically, is,
we're retracing Alice's steps
and tracing Sam's ride with her.
♪
We're very close to the location
of the motel that he was talking about
when he met her.
♪
[Jillian] Oh, here we are, 55th.
Okay.
♪
This is a map of all the locations
in the Alice confession.
Okay, there's Central.
-There's 55 that way. -[Jillian] Fifty-fifth
is this way.
[Rick] So we're right up here.
And then we're hoping
that we'll-we'll see this pink motel with an alley
where he met her.
[Rick] Yeah.
[eerie music]
Okay, so let's see.
♪
Oh, there's an appliance store over there,
-and it's pink. -[Jillian] Yeah.
Looks like it's been there for years.
-Yeah. -It doesn't mean, you know,
25 years ago, it wasn't a little motel.
♪
What about right here? The hardware store?
[Jillian] Look!
This was totally a motel.
[Rick] And it's pink.
And is that an alley right there?
♪
[camera shutter clicks]
♪
[Jillian] I feel, like, 99% sure that this is it.
It seems consistent with the story.
Should we ask?
[Rick] Hey, how are you?
Have you heard what this hardware store
used to be
a long time ago?
[Jillian] Can you answer some questions
about the-the buildings around here?
[Rick] Those two buildings right there...
[Rick] How long has that person owned that?
Do you remember it being a motel?
[speaking Spanish]
[Rick] Okay. Thanks. Thanks so much.
Obviously, there are rooms for lease up there,
but he may have been calling that a motel.
[Jillian] Yeah. It looks right.
I mean, I can show Sam the pictures
and see if he recognizes the building.
♪
So I like that hardware store spot.
Feels like the right place.
[Rick] Looks like the right kind of place.
Looks like--yup.
But she had a girlfriend who was there,
and so he said, "I'll meet you later,"
which he often did.
So he met her at a bus stop
on Central and Slauson later.
[ominous music]
Sam liked to separate a woman from her pack.
He'd circle her, hone in.
He'd figure out what she needed--
beer, whiskey, dope, love.
He knew the endgame he dreamed of
was unacceptable,
but he knew he could have it
if he was brave or depraved enough to try.
♪
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
Oh, here's a-here's a stop right there.
[Jillian] Oh, yeah. And this would make sense.
Like, she walked a few blocks down.
That's about right.
Now we're gonna drive straight down Central.
And this is the drive
that Sam would have taken with Alice
before he killed her.
Do you remember where you dumped the body?
[Jillian] Toward the beach?
[Jillian] Like the overpass of the freeway?
[suspenseful music]
[Jillian] He said it was past Imperial.
[Rick] Yeah. This is Imperial Highway.
[Jillian] This is Imperial.
So this could be the overpass.
-[Rick] Right. -[Jillian] He also said
all the way to the beach.
Um, there is no beach, yeah.
[Rick] Central doesn't go there.
[Jillian] But he said it's far past Imperial...
-[Rick] Right. -[Jillian] ...past Compton.
-[Rick] Did he? -[Jillian] Yeah.
So I think we wanna go to the next one, right?
[Rick] Yeah, yeah.
[Jillian] This could be the overpass.
Okay, so this was-- basically, it's the off-ramp
coming off of the freeway.
So if he's coming south down Central...
See, what's--
...and he says he made a right,
it's gotta be on the other side.
Yeah.
[Jillian] Yeah, like, out in the country.
[dramatic music]
[Jillian] According to Sam, he got out into the country.
That's what he calls anything that isn't urban.
-[Rick] Not built up. -[Jillian] Right.
[Rick] That could've been the field
or country, as he calls it.
[Jillian] The country.
Yeah.
♪
If this is the spot,
you would've had to have been able to see
the-the body dump from the bridge.
Right? That's how he remembers it.
♪
-That's the most likely spot. -Right.
♪
I think we got some leads.
I think there's a lot more digging to do.
I also took a bunch of photos,
and I'm gonna go back
and talk to Sam.
♪
[somber music]
I feel like...
like I got a little closer to Alice today.
♪
I feel that if I was there,
that if I can be another set of eyes,
that in some way,
I was there, then they weren't...
just alone with a monster
and that was the last the world ever saw of them.
[pensive music]
♪
This is another drawing he did for me of Alice.
That's Alice.
She looks sad.
He often draws petechial hemorrhaging
in their eyes, which is...
what happens when you're strangled.
♪
I drove out to the prison,
and I had brought pictures with me.
Sam, he described very clearly to me.
He picked her up in this-this building.
He described it as a motel.
Now it's a, you know, hardware store sort of,
but when I showed him a picture of it,
he was able to identify that
as, um, the building where he picked up Alice.
But he didn't recognize the 91 overpass.
He said he was going toward the beach,
but Central Avenue doesn't go toward the beach,
so I thought maybe he has his streets mixed up.
Sam has told me that there was this article
about it in the paper, that somebody
had been riding a bicycle,
had seen the body from an overpass.
He was tracking his kills in the paper.
He's a news junkie; he loves the news,
watches the news all day long.
So I thought it's very likely
that that article is out there somewhere.
[disquieting music]
If it's out there, I'll find it
if I just keep digging and digging into databases,
scanning the newspapers,
and it's a laborious process,
especially when you're like, "There's nothing.
"There's nothing here.
"There's nothing here at this time
"that looks like this.
"There-there's no victim described like this.
There's no murder reported."
But eventually, I did find an article.
♪
So I'm looking at the paper, I'm looking at the paper,
but it's from a totally different location,
ten miles south
of where he said he dumped her,
in the city of Long Beach.
I'm like, "So it wasn't the beach.
It was Long Beach."
♪
So maybe that's what he meant by beach.
If we can confirm this is the right location,
we might actually help solve the Alice case.
♪