1 00:00:28,724 --> 00:00:32,467 [disquieting music] 2 00:00:32,597 --> 00:00:34,208 His hands are around my neck. 3 00:00:34,338 --> 00:00:36,906 [Wayne] It should've been a slam dunk. 4 00:00:37,037 --> 00:00:38,777 You caught the man in the act. 5 00:00:38,951 --> 00:00:41,041 ♪ 6 00:00:41,128 --> 00:00:43,217 [Gary] This was the worst outcome 7 00:00:43,304 --> 00:00:45,001 of my career. 8 00:00:45,132 --> 00:00:47,090 [Jillian] Samuel Little never thought 9 00:00:47,221 --> 00:00:49,745 that he would be convicted. 10 00:00:49,832 --> 00:00:52,095 There was such a miscarriage of justice. 11 00:00:52,226 --> 00:00:54,271 [Laurie] They failed me. 12 00:00:54,402 --> 00:00:57,057 They failed every woman after me. 13 00:00:57,187 --> 00:00:59,059 Because we're prostitutes, we're women, 14 00:00:59,189 --> 00:01:00,582 it doesn't really matter. 15 00:01:00,669 --> 00:01:02,018 So guess what. 16 00:01:02,149 --> 00:01:05,456 All the deaths after me are on them. 17 00:01:05,587 --> 00:01:07,154 [Mitzi] It sickens me now 18 00:01:07,284 --> 00:01:09,895 that so many women are dead: 19 00:01:10,026 --> 00:01:12,463 Melinda LaPree, Patricia Mount, 20 00:01:12,550 --> 00:01:14,987 Carol Alford, Audrey Nelson, 21 00:01:15,075 --> 00:01:18,426 Guadalupe Apodaca, and more. 22 00:01:18,556 --> 00:01:20,602 [Darren] But there's two more prostitutes 23 00:01:20,689 --> 00:01:22,952 that have survived Sam's attack: 24 00:01:23,083 --> 00:01:26,086 Hilda Nelson and Leila McClain. 25 00:01:26,216 --> 00:01:28,740 [Mitzi] Leila McClain summed it up to a T 26 00:01:28,827 --> 00:01:31,091 when she said, "Ain't nobody gonna believe 27 00:01:31,221 --> 00:01:32,701 "a Black prostitute 28 00:01:32,788 --> 00:01:35,486 in Pascagoula, Mississippi, in 1982." 29 00:01:35,660 --> 00:01:38,533 ♪ 30 00:01:41,753 --> 00:01:43,625 [melancholy music] 31 00:01:43,755 --> 00:01:47,629 [Jillian] In August of 2018, 32 00:01:47,759 --> 00:01:50,719 when I interviewed Sam the first time, 33 00:01:50,849 --> 00:01:53,591 he had maintained his innocence, 34 00:01:53,722 --> 00:01:56,551 but by the end of our second interview, 35 00:01:56,681 --> 00:01:58,118 he started confessing to me, 36 00:01:58,248 --> 00:02:02,034 and he told me about 13 murders that day. 37 00:02:02,165 --> 00:02:04,994 It left me, like, frozen. 38 00:02:05,125 --> 00:02:07,866 I sort of... [exhales deeply] 39 00:02:07,997 --> 00:02:12,784 ...said, "Okay, call law enforcement immediately." 40 00:02:12,915 --> 00:02:17,093 And so I called Mitzi Roberts, and I said, 41 00:02:17,224 --> 00:02:19,313 "He's talking. 42 00:02:19,443 --> 00:02:20,705 What do I do?" 43 00:02:20,836 --> 00:02:22,533 [suspenseful music] 44 00:02:22,664 --> 00:02:24,579 And she said, "There is a lead investigator 45 00:02:24,709 --> 00:02:27,277 on this now, and he is a Texas Ranger." 46 00:02:28,496 --> 00:02:30,498 Ranger James Holland 47 00:02:30,585 --> 00:02:32,456 was organizing a national effort 48 00:02:32,587 --> 00:02:35,067 to solve these cold cases 49 00:02:35,198 --> 00:02:37,505 related to Samuel Little. 50 00:02:37,635 --> 00:02:42,162 So I got a call from Ranger Holland, saying: 51 00:02:42,292 --> 00:02:45,339 "Hello, this is Texas Ranger James Holland, 52 00:02:45,469 --> 00:02:48,864 and I hear that you have some information for me." 53 00:02:48,994 --> 00:02:50,474 And I said, "Well, you know, 54 00:02:50,605 --> 00:02:52,955 "can I just organize my notes? Can I"-- 55 00:02:53,085 --> 00:02:55,131 He's like, "No. Just read them to me. 56 00:02:55,262 --> 00:02:57,438 Just give-just give it to me. What do you got?" 57 00:02:57,568 --> 00:02:59,004 And as I went through them, he was like, 58 00:02:59,091 --> 00:03:00,702 "Got it, go. 59 00:03:00,832 --> 00:03:02,965 Next one, next one, next one, next one." 60 00:03:03,095 --> 00:03:04,749 And I was just like, "Okay, I guess he knows 61 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,230 about these murders already." 62 00:03:07,361 --> 00:03:10,320 And then I told him 63 00:03:10,451 --> 00:03:14,803 about the victim in Omaha that was left in a barrel, 64 00:03:14,933 --> 00:03:16,544 and then he said, 65 00:03:16,631 --> 00:03:19,111 "Stop. 66 00:03:19,242 --> 00:03:20,461 Say that again?" 67 00:03:20,548 --> 00:03:21,984 [dramatic music] 68 00:03:26,118 --> 00:03:27,076 [Jillian] Right. 69 00:03:28,469 --> 00:03:29,296 [Jillian] Right. 70 00:03:31,341 --> 00:03:35,171 The victim was a Native American woman. 71 00:03:35,302 --> 00:03:37,521 She was in a bar, 72 00:03:37,652 --> 00:03:40,872 and Sam walked in, and he said, 73 00:03:41,003 --> 00:03:44,180 "Is that an Indian? 74 00:03:44,311 --> 00:03:45,529 Never met a real Indian." 75 00:04:06,768 --> 00:04:08,857 [ominous music] 76 00:04:08,987 --> 00:04:12,600 [Jillian] Her friend said, "Don't get in the car," 77 00:04:12,730 --> 00:04:14,515 but she got in the car. 78 00:04:14,689 --> 00:04:16,690 ♪ 79 00:04:25,352 --> 00:04:26,222 [Jillian] Hmm. 80 00:04:41,890 --> 00:04:45,807 [Jillian] And he strangled her there in the car 81 00:04:45,894 --> 00:04:49,985 and left her naked body in this barrel. 82 00:04:50,159 --> 00:04:53,075 ♪ 83 00:04:55,556 --> 00:04:57,166 So two days later, 84 00:04:57,297 --> 00:04:59,951 Ranger James Holland calls back, 85 00:05:00,038 --> 00:05:03,390 and he's like, "We got her. 86 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,044 We got the victim in Omaha," 87 00:05:06,131 --> 00:05:07,959 the one from my confession. 88 00:05:08,090 --> 00:05:10,658 That was the information that identified her, 89 00:05:10,745 --> 00:05:13,835 and it was Agatha White Buffalo. 90 00:05:13,965 --> 00:05:16,316 [news reporter] In 1973, 91 00:05:16,446 --> 00:05:18,709 the body of the 34-year-old was found 92 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:19,884 stuffed in one of these barrels 93 00:05:20,015 --> 00:05:21,756 at 27th and N. 94 00:05:21,886 --> 00:05:23,932 She had been strangled to death. 95 00:05:24,062 --> 00:05:27,022 Her murder is no longer a cold case. 96 00:05:27,152 --> 00:05:30,068 Omaha police tell me it's officially classified now 97 00:05:30,199 --> 00:05:32,375 as exceptionally clear. 98 00:05:33,289 --> 00:05:34,638 [Jillian] Initially, I wasn't trying 99 00:05:34,769 --> 00:05:37,337 to solve a murder. 100 00:05:37,467 --> 00:05:39,600 I just remember walking outside and saying, 101 00:05:39,730 --> 00:05:41,776 you know, like, "I think maybe I just did the best thing 102 00:05:41,906 --> 00:05:44,082 I've ever done in my life." 103 00:05:45,649 --> 00:05:49,392 And I haven't been able to stop since. 104 00:05:49,566 --> 00:05:52,700 ♪ 105 00:05:52,830 --> 00:05:54,571 [news reporter] The FBI calls Samuel Little 106 00:05:54,702 --> 00:05:57,095 America's most prolific serial killer. 107 00:05:57,226 --> 00:05:59,968 [Sam] If you want me to tell my secrets to you, 108 00:06:00,098 --> 00:06:02,362 come down here and look me in my eye 109 00:06:02,492 --> 00:06:04,320 while I do. 110 00:06:04,451 --> 00:06:07,149 [Jillian] My deal with the devil is, 111 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,327 "You will not die alone if you tell me the truth." 112 00:06:11,414 --> 00:06:12,633 [Sam] I'm not gonna admit to those girls. 113 00:06:12,763 --> 00:06:14,330 [Jillian] I don't believe you. 114 00:06:14,461 --> 00:06:16,854 So you tell me the truth right now. 115 00:06:16,985 --> 00:06:19,422 [news reporter] Little strangled 93 victims 116 00:06:19,553 --> 00:06:22,164 between 1970 and 2005. 117 00:06:22,251 --> 00:06:23,861 [Jillian] He was tried and got off 118 00:06:23,992 --> 00:06:25,559 again and again and again. 119 00:06:25,689 --> 00:06:27,082 [news reporter] Investigators believe 120 00:06:27,212 --> 00:06:28,605 that Samuel Little killed more people 121 00:06:28,736 --> 00:06:30,781 than serial killers Ted Bundy, 122 00:06:30,868 --> 00:06:33,958 John Wayne Gacy, and Jeffrey Dahmer combined. 123 00:06:34,872 --> 00:06:35,873 [Jillian] If you weren't locked up, 124 00:06:36,004 --> 00:06:38,441 I'd probably be dead by now. 125 00:06:38,572 --> 00:06:40,443 [Sam] You're right. 126 00:06:46,362 --> 00:06:49,104 [footsteps clomping] 127 00:06:54,065 --> 00:06:56,590 [Jillian] These are all drawings 128 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,940 that Sam has sent me. 129 00:07:03,423 --> 00:07:07,644 These are his murder victims. 130 00:07:07,775 --> 00:07:10,908 [melancholy string music] 131 00:07:11,039 --> 00:07:14,434 Sam learned to draw in the Ohio State Reformatory, 132 00:07:14,564 --> 00:07:16,392 where he was incarcerated 133 00:07:16,523 --> 00:07:20,135 when he was 17 years old. 134 00:07:20,265 --> 00:07:23,834 It's interesting to think about how you can have 135 00:07:23,965 --> 00:07:28,578 the kind of close observation that art requires 136 00:07:28,709 --> 00:07:33,235 and then also... the complete disregard 137 00:07:33,365 --> 00:07:36,847 for human life that murder requires. 138 00:07:38,066 --> 00:07:42,679 You can definitely see his art changing over time. 139 00:07:42,810 --> 00:07:46,640 I guess my hope is that they're getting more... 140 00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:48,642 true to life, 141 00:07:48,772 --> 00:07:50,731 because then they might be matched 142 00:07:50,818 --> 00:07:52,994 to an unidentified victim. 143 00:07:53,168 --> 00:07:56,214 ♪ 144 00:07:56,301 --> 00:07:58,260 You know, these are the ones I keep in my office... 145 00:07:58,434 --> 00:08:00,828 ♪ 146 00:08:00,958 --> 00:08:05,746 ...as sort of references and, um, inspiration 147 00:08:05,833 --> 00:08:07,661 to keep going 148 00:08:07,791 --> 00:08:10,315 investigating these murders. 149 00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:15,451 These are not curiosities to me. 150 00:08:15,582 --> 00:08:18,019 These are lives 151 00:08:18,149 --> 00:08:19,977 that were lost. 152 00:08:23,198 --> 00:08:24,765 This is Audrey, 153 00:08:24,895 --> 00:08:27,376 one of Sam's victims from Los Angeles. 154 00:08:28,551 --> 00:08:31,902 I have a relationship with a lot of the victims, 155 00:08:32,033 --> 00:08:35,297 but I most relate to Audrey 156 00:08:35,427 --> 00:08:38,518 and think that that could've been me. 157 00:08:38,648 --> 00:08:41,999 Audrey was really artistic. 158 00:08:42,130 --> 00:08:45,002 She was, like, a very loud, bright personality, 159 00:08:45,133 --> 00:08:48,963 and so when I want... 160 00:08:49,050 --> 00:08:52,096 kind of creative motivation or inspiration, 161 00:08:52,183 --> 00:08:53,358 I'll talk to Audrey. 162 00:08:53,489 --> 00:08:55,404 [dramatic music] 163 00:08:55,535 --> 00:08:57,972 This is a victim of Sam's 164 00:08:58,102 --> 00:09:02,367 that is still unidentified. 165 00:09:02,498 --> 00:09:05,196 He often draws petechial hemorrhaging 166 00:09:05,327 --> 00:09:06,458 in their eyes, 167 00:09:06,589 --> 00:09:08,678 which is... 168 00:09:08,809 --> 00:09:10,854 what happens when you're strangled, 169 00:09:10,985 --> 00:09:12,682 broken blood vessels in your eyes. 170 00:09:12,856 --> 00:09:15,990 ♪ 171 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,036 I write a lot from the victims' perspectives, 172 00:09:19,167 --> 00:09:22,779 which I feel is taking a lot of license, 173 00:09:22,866 --> 00:09:26,435 and I wanna be very mindful of that. 174 00:09:26,566 --> 00:09:30,657 I really try to... 175 00:09:30,744 --> 00:09:32,528 ask their permission. 176 00:09:32,702 --> 00:09:35,226 ♪ 177 00:09:35,357 --> 00:09:37,402 And I ask, 178 00:09:37,533 --> 00:09:38,882 "Can I tell your story, 179 00:09:39,013 --> 00:09:40,623 and will you help me?" 180 00:09:41,711 --> 00:09:43,104 What I like to imagine 181 00:09:43,234 --> 00:09:45,236 is that Sam is no longer 182 00:09:45,367 --> 00:09:47,587 the only person 183 00:09:47,717 --> 00:09:50,938 who witnessed those moments. 184 00:09:51,068 --> 00:09:54,855 I don't want them to... 185 00:09:55,029 --> 00:09:58,119 ♪ 186 00:09:58,249 --> 00:10:00,382 ...just have been alone with a monster, you know? 187 00:10:00,556 --> 00:10:03,428 ♪ 188 00:10:03,515 --> 00:10:05,517 This is one of his favorite victims. 189 00:10:05,648 --> 00:10:07,824 I don't think he even knows 190 00:10:07,911 --> 00:10:11,611 why certain victims stay with him more than others, 191 00:10:11,741 --> 00:10:13,917 or he-he goes over and over and over them 192 00:10:14,048 --> 00:10:15,963 again in his mind 193 00:10:16,093 --> 00:10:18,487 while he's lying there in his cell. 194 00:10:18,618 --> 00:10:22,752 This reads, "Sam kill me but he knows I love him. 195 00:10:22,883 --> 00:10:24,275 Ms. Sam." 196 00:10:24,406 --> 00:10:25,929 [eerie music] 197 00:10:26,060 --> 00:10:27,322 And then this reads, 198 00:10:27,452 --> 00:10:29,106 "Your sister Jillian. 199 00:10:29,237 --> 00:10:32,109 My dream. Mr. Sam." 200 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,286 There's very little that does not creep me out 201 00:10:35,417 --> 00:10:36,592 about any of this. 202 00:10:36,723 --> 00:10:38,768 Yeah, he believes 203 00:10:38,899 --> 00:10:40,727 that I'm... 204 00:10:40,814 --> 00:10:42,380 basically one of his victims, 205 00:10:42,511 --> 00:10:46,167 like I'm a living, breathing victim, 206 00:10:46,297 --> 00:10:49,866 but essentially, I belong to him. 207 00:10:49,997 --> 00:10:51,694 He possesses me 208 00:10:51,825 --> 00:10:53,261 the same way that he feels, 209 00:10:53,348 --> 00:10:55,176 uh, about his victims, 210 00:10:55,306 --> 00:10:59,136 and, um, that we're all gonna be together again 211 00:10:59,267 --> 00:11:00,355 in heaven. 212 00:11:00,529 --> 00:11:02,313 ♪ 213 00:11:02,444 --> 00:11:04,925 [sighs] 214 00:11:05,099 --> 00:11:07,014 ♪ 215 00:11:14,195 --> 00:11:16,110 [Jillian] You feel that God has forgiven you? 216 00:11:31,865 --> 00:11:32,735 [Jillian] Right. 217 00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:35,999 [line beeps] 218 00:11:36,130 --> 00:11:38,175 [sighs] Jesus. 219 00:11:38,349 --> 00:11:41,439 ♪ 220 00:11:41,570 --> 00:11:44,094 How did I get the ear of a serial killer? 221 00:11:44,225 --> 00:11:45,617 I listened to him. 222 00:11:45,792 --> 00:11:47,532 ♪ 223 00:11:47,663 --> 00:11:49,056 I told him I cared. 224 00:11:49,186 --> 00:11:51,014 I told him I wouldn't judge him. 225 00:11:51,145 --> 00:11:53,495 I told him I wouldn't leave him. 226 00:11:53,625 --> 00:11:55,453 I said, "Give it to me straight, 227 00:11:55,584 --> 00:11:56,977 "give me everything, 228 00:11:57,107 --> 00:11:59,153 "and I'll take your calls, 229 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,111 "and I'll write you letters, 230 00:12:01,242 --> 00:12:03,679 and I'll be your friend." 231 00:12:03,810 --> 00:12:06,203 And that's how I got him to talk. 232 00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:08,249 ♪ 233 00:12:13,907 --> 00:12:15,212 [Jillian] Yeah, tell me. 234 00:12:19,913 --> 00:12:21,001 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 235 00:12:44,285 --> 00:12:45,155 [Jillian] Right. 236 00:12:48,115 --> 00:12:49,203 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 237 00:12:54,208 --> 00:12:57,472 I'm in this very unusual position 238 00:12:57,602 --> 00:13:01,302 because most people don't get to interview 239 00:13:01,389 --> 00:13:03,434 someone of this... 240 00:13:03,565 --> 00:13:07,134 degree of perniciousness 241 00:13:07,221 --> 00:13:09,092 and evil 242 00:13:09,223 --> 00:13:12,139 for this long of a time, you know? 243 00:13:12,269 --> 00:13:16,230 It's a-it's, like, a two-year interview process we've had 244 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,058 since I started working on this project. 245 00:13:18,232 --> 00:13:21,104 ♪ 246 00:13:21,888 --> 00:13:24,151 [line trills] 247 00:13:24,281 --> 00:13:25,369 [Jill] This is Jill. 248 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:26,806 Hey, Jill. It's Jillian. 249 00:13:26,936 --> 00:13:28,503 -How are you? -[Jill] Good. 250 00:13:30,722 --> 00:13:33,595 We're talking about titles and cover. 251 00:13:34,422 --> 00:13:36,467 [Jill] 252 00:13:41,864 --> 00:13:43,605 -Uh-huh. -[Jill] 253 00:13:45,172 --> 00:13:46,608 -[Jillian] Uh-huh. -[Jill] 254 00:13:56,966 --> 00:14:00,143 Yeah. That's part of it. 255 00:14:00,230 --> 00:14:02,406 I definitely grapple with themes 256 00:14:02,493 --> 00:14:05,714 of, you know, what is monstrous and what is human. 257 00:14:05,801 --> 00:14:08,195 ♪ 258 00:14:08,325 --> 00:14:10,675 I want to understand 259 00:14:10,806 --> 00:14:14,375 this kind of aberrant behavior. 260 00:14:14,505 --> 00:14:16,856 I wanna know his story, 261 00:14:16,986 --> 00:14:19,771 what made him who he is. 262 00:14:20,816 --> 00:14:23,384 Sam, will you tell me about your childhood? 263 00:14:24,472 --> 00:14:25,603 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 264 00:14:25,734 --> 00:14:27,649 Why don't we start that story 265 00:14:27,736 --> 00:14:28,868 from the beginning? 266 00:14:40,183 --> 00:14:41,010 [Jillian] Mm. 267 00:14:47,625 --> 00:14:48,409 [Jillian] How? 268 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:54,067 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 269 00:14:59,072 --> 00:15:00,116 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 270 00:15:23,183 --> 00:15:25,968 [melancholy music] 271 00:15:26,142 --> 00:15:27,709 ♪ 272 00:15:27,796 --> 00:15:30,277 [Jillian] Samuel Little was born in 1940 273 00:15:30,407 --> 00:15:33,323 in Reynolds, Georgia, which is a rural town 274 00:15:33,454 --> 00:15:34,759 in the South. 275 00:15:34,846 --> 00:15:36,413 ♪ 276 00:15:36,544 --> 00:15:38,415 Sam Little's mother, Bessie Mae Little, 277 00:15:38,546 --> 00:15:40,678 was 16 years old, 278 00:15:40,809 --> 00:15:42,724 and she had an affair 279 00:15:42,811 --> 00:15:44,682 with Paul McDowell, 280 00:15:44,813 --> 00:15:46,858 who was a little bit older. 281 00:15:47,033 --> 00:15:49,078 ♪ 282 00:15:49,209 --> 00:15:51,037 And she wound up pregnant with Sam. 283 00:15:51,211 --> 00:15:54,170 ♪ 284 00:15:54,257 --> 00:15:55,693 Sam's mother, Bessie Mae, 285 00:15:55,824 --> 00:15:58,566 was raised by her grandmother, 286 00:15:58,696 --> 00:16:00,307 Josephine, 287 00:16:00,437 --> 00:16:03,963 because her mother died in childbirth, 288 00:16:04,093 --> 00:16:07,444 and so this grandmother was furious 289 00:16:07,575 --> 00:16:10,926 about Bessie Mae having a baby. 290 00:16:11,057 --> 00:16:13,146 [thunder booming] 291 00:16:13,276 --> 00:16:15,539 [rain pattering] 292 00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:18,020 When Sam was somewhere 293 00:16:18,151 --> 00:16:20,327 between six and nine months old, 294 00:16:20,457 --> 00:16:23,243 Josephine put her granddaughter out and said, 295 00:16:23,373 --> 00:16:27,812 "You need to... get rid of this boy. 296 00:16:27,943 --> 00:16:31,599 Just leave him by the side of the road." 297 00:16:31,773 --> 00:16:33,731 ♪ 298 00:16:51,097 --> 00:16:52,359 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 299 00:16:54,361 --> 00:16:56,145 [Jillian] And eventually, 300 00:16:56,276 --> 00:16:59,018 she just got too despondent and exhausted 301 00:16:59,105 --> 00:17:01,281 and collapsed. 302 00:17:01,455 --> 00:17:03,370 ♪ 303 00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:06,112 Bessie Mae crawled to the side of the road, 304 00:17:06,242 --> 00:17:07,722 laid her baby down in the mud, 305 00:17:07,852 --> 00:17:10,333 eyes to God, and prayed. 306 00:17:10,464 --> 00:17:12,465 "Jesus," she said, 307 00:17:12,596 --> 00:17:14,771 "please protect this child." 308 00:17:14,945 --> 00:17:17,819 ♪ 309 00:17:25,305 --> 00:17:26,175 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 310 00:17:30,527 --> 00:17:34,575 [Jillian] There was a peddler with a goat cart 311 00:17:34,705 --> 00:17:36,664 who everyone knew in the town. 312 00:17:53,202 --> 00:17:54,899 [Jillian] And everybody knew 313 00:17:55,030 --> 00:17:58,120 that Bessie Mae's child was Paul's child, 314 00:17:58,251 --> 00:18:00,427 and so this peddler 315 00:18:00,557 --> 00:18:02,472 picked Sam up 316 00:18:02,603 --> 00:18:05,606 and took him to his paternal grandparents, 317 00:18:05,736 --> 00:18:08,478 and so Fanny and Henry took him in. 318 00:18:08,652 --> 00:18:11,568 ♪ 319 00:18:11,699 --> 00:18:15,311 Sam was taken by his grandparents 320 00:18:15,442 --> 00:18:17,487 to Lorain, Ohio, 321 00:18:17,618 --> 00:18:19,489 and raised by them 322 00:18:19,576 --> 00:18:24,059 as if he was their son. 323 00:18:45,950 --> 00:18:47,387 [music intensifies] 324 00:19:02,750 --> 00:19:03,620 [Jillian] Right. 325 00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:14,414 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 326 00:19:38,307 --> 00:19:40,440 [suspenseful music] 327 00:19:48,274 --> 00:19:51,190 ♪ 328 00:19:54,932 --> 00:19:56,760 [Jillian] When he was 13 years old, 329 00:19:56,891 --> 00:19:59,720 he ran away from home, 330 00:19:59,850 --> 00:20:03,506 and he saw these bicycles lined up in a row, 331 00:20:03,637 --> 00:20:06,466 and that was his first real time 332 00:20:06,596 --> 00:20:07,728 he stole something. 333 00:20:07,815 --> 00:20:09,251 ♪ 334 00:20:09,382 --> 00:20:10,905 They arrested him, 335 00:20:10,992 --> 00:20:13,560 and based on that, 336 00:20:13,690 --> 00:20:17,128 he wound up in the Boys' Industrial School. 337 00:20:17,259 --> 00:20:19,783 So the Boys' Industrial School 338 00:20:19,914 --> 00:20:23,134 was like the reformatory school. 339 00:20:23,961 --> 00:20:26,442 Sam was in there for 19 months. 340 00:20:26,573 --> 00:20:30,054 It was historically a very abusive environment. 341 00:20:30,141 --> 00:20:32,231 [disquieting music] 342 00:20:37,192 --> 00:20:38,062 [Jillian] Right. 343 00:20:43,807 --> 00:20:45,244 [Jillian] Each night, the younger boys 344 00:20:45,374 --> 00:20:48,986 kept their eyes shut tight and prayed, 345 00:20:49,117 --> 00:20:51,815 listening to the footsteps of the older boys 346 00:20:51,946 --> 00:20:55,558 strolling the rows of bunks. 347 00:20:55,689 --> 00:20:57,430 They knew the next sound they heard 348 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,910 would be screams. 349 00:21:00,041 --> 00:21:02,304 If on some nights, those screams 350 00:21:02,435 --> 00:21:04,915 sounded suspiciously like Sam's, 351 00:21:05,046 --> 00:21:07,614 he knew it was never him. 352 00:21:07,744 --> 00:21:09,964 It was understood 353 00:21:10,094 --> 00:21:11,922 that even if it was you, 354 00:21:12,053 --> 00:21:13,750 you never admitted to it. 355 00:21:13,924 --> 00:21:16,840 ♪ 356 00:21:53,050 --> 00:21:55,923 [suspenseful music] 357 00:22:16,465 --> 00:22:17,336 [Jillian] Right. 358 00:22:29,522 --> 00:22:32,525 ♪ 359 00:22:32,655 --> 00:22:34,657 [Jillian] Sam has a very... 360 00:22:34,788 --> 00:22:38,182 vehement victim narrative 361 00:22:38,313 --> 00:22:40,054 about his life. 362 00:22:40,184 --> 00:22:42,361 He really wanted to share that with me. 363 00:22:42,491 --> 00:22:45,929 I just said, "I would like to listen, 364 00:22:46,060 --> 00:22:48,149 "I would like to not judge you, 365 00:22:48,279 --> 00:22:50,543 and I just wanna understand." 366 00:22:50,673 --> 00:22:53,284 [uneasy music] 367 00:22:53,415 --> 00:22:57,332 During the time that Sam was in the Ohio State Reformatory 368 00:22:57,463 --> 00:22:59,552 in the early '60s, 369 00:22:59,682 --> 00:23:01,510 his mother, Bessie Mae, 370 00:23:01,641 --> 00:23:04,078 sent him a letter. 371 00:23:04,208 --> 00:23:07,821 His mother, who he had not seen since he was four, 372 00:23:07,908 --> 00:23:11,607 wrote him and said, "I'm living in Miami. 373 00:23:11,738 --> 00:23:14,393 "I'm living in a place called Coconut Grove. 374 00:23:14,523 --> 00:23:16,133 "It's fantastic. 375 00:23:16,264 --> 00:23:19,528 "The sun shines all the time. 376 00:23:19,659 --> 00:23:21,138 "I have money. 377 00:23:21,269 --> 00:23:24,359 Won't you come see me, my one and only son?" 378 00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:30,583 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 379 00:23:33,586 --> 00:23:34,456 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 380 00:23:41,332 --> 00:23:42,246 [Jillian laughs] 381 00:23:50,951 --> 00:23:53,388 [Jillian] Sam moved in with his mother, 382 00:23:53,519 --> 00:23:55,695 who had sort of a rooming house. 383 00:23:55,869 --> 00:23:58,349 ♪ 384 00:24:12,015 --> 00:24:13,408 [Jillian] That's a little weird, Sam. 385 00:24:13,495 --> 00:24:15,018 [laughs] 386 00:24:18,674 --> 00:24:21,677 ♪ 387 00:24:21,808 --> 00:24:24,245 His mother wanted to make sure 388 00:24:24,375 --> 00:24:26,334 he was having sex 389 00:24:26,465 --> 00:24:28,336 so she would have a grandchild, 390 00:24:28,467 --> 00:24:30,425 because she never got to raise him. 391 00:24:30,556 --> 00:24:32,819 When that wasn't working, 392 00:24:32,949 --> 00:24:36,953 she would... crawl into bed with him at night, 393 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,956 and she would have him 394 00:24:40,087 --> 00:24:44,178 suck on her breast as an adult man. 395 00:25:00,107 --> 00:25:01,064 Wow. 396 00:25:13,555 --> 00:25:15,296 Whew! 397 00:25:15,426 --> 00:25:18,908 She was sexually inappropriate with him, 398 00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:23,217 but he'll apologize for her until the end of time. 399 00:25:23,347 --> 00:25:25,262 You're talking about Bessie Mae? 400 00:25:25,393 --> 00:25:27,221 Did it make you angry, 401 00:25:27,351 --> 00:25:28,875 or did it make you aroused? 402 00:25:35,272 --> 00:25:38,101 [somber music] 403 00:25:38,275 --> 00:25:39,407 ♪ 404 00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:41,235 [Jillian] Sam told me 405 00:25:41,365 --> 00:25:43,019 he had been thinking about killing women 406 00:25:43,150 --> 00:25:44,412 for a long time. 407 00:25:46,719 --> 00:25:49,939 But it wasn't until he moved in with his mother 408 00:25:50,026 --> 00:25:51,811 that he finally, 409 00:25:51,941 --> 00:25:55,423 after many years of thinking about it... 410 00:25:57,033 --> 00:25:58,339 ...killed a woman. 411 00:25:58,513 --> 00:26:00,080 ♪ 412 00:26:00,210 --> 00:26:03,170 He was like, 413 00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:04,737 "You wanna know about the first one?" 414 00:26:04,911 --> 00:26:06,129 ♪ 415 00:26:06,260 --> 00:26:08,044 And I was like, "Yeah. 416 00:26:08,175 --> 00:26:09,698 I wanna know about the first one." 417 00:26:09,872 --> 00:26:11,352 ♪ 418 00:26:20,274 --> 00:26:21,101 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 419 00:26:54,569 --> 00:26:56,136 [dramatic music] 420 00:26:56,266 --> 00:26:58,399 [Jillian] How do you build a psychopath? 421 00:26:58,486 --> 00:27:00,880 How do you build a serial killer? 422 00:27:01,010 --> 00:27:03,186 I can't tell you 423 00:27:03,273 --> 00:27:07,451 what makes one person go through all these things 424 00:27:07,582 --> 00:27:10,977 and turn into somebody 425 00:27:11,107 --> 00:27:13,632 who kills women. 426 00:27:13,762 --> 00:27:16,330 I'm not a neuroscientist. 427 00:27:16,460 --> 00:27:20,334 But my understanding is that a serial killer 428 00:27:20,464 --> 00:27:24,817 is a perfect storm of genetics and environment. 429 00:27:24,991 --> 00:27:27,123 ♪ 430 00:27:27,254 --> 00:27:30,344 The first murder happened before Sam's mom died, 431 00:27:30,431 --> 00:27:32,868 and then after he lost his mother, 432 00:27:32,999 --> 00:27:36,263 it is the ultimate abandonment, 433 00:27:36,393 --> 00:27:38,874 and he goes fully off the rails, 434 00:27:38,961 --> 00:27:43,009 and he went on a rageful killing spree. 435 00:27:51,452 --> 00:27:53,497 [Jillian] It was like the last thread 436 00:27:53,628 --> 00:27:56,326 that tied him to his mom snapped 437 00:27:56,457 --> 00:27:58,894 and he was free of all his guilt 438 00:27:59,025 --> 00:28:01,723 and obligation of trying 439 00:28:01,854 --> 00:28:04,552 to do the right thing by his family, 440 00:28:04,683 --> 00:28:07,294 free to be who he truly was. 441 00:28:08,991 --> 00:28:11,515 Now there would be no stopping him. 442 00:28:11,602 --> 00:28:14,475 [menacing music] 443 00:28:14,649 --> 00:28:17,913 ♪ 444 00:28:18,435 --> 00:28:21,308 My job is to enter a world 445 00:28:21,438 --> 00:28:23,440 and try to imagine myself 446 00:28:23,571 --> 00:28:25,399 into other people's minds 447 00:28:25,529 --> 00:28:27,793 and other people's lives. 448 00:28:27,923 --> 00:28:30,621 But it does seem like a tremendous responsibility 449 00:28:30,752 --> 00:28:33,276 when those people are no longer alive. 450 00:28:33,407 --> 00:28:36,149 [desolate music] 451 00:28:36,323 --> 00:28:37,890 ♪ 452 00:28:38,020 --> 00:28:39,326 I don't only wanna know 453 00:28:39,413 --> 00:28:41,197 what Sam has to say 454 00:28:41,328 --> 00:28:43,417 about the women he killed. 455 00:28:43,547 --> 00:28:47,073 I have a drive to really understand 456 00:28:47,203 --> 00:28:49,423 these women-- what they were like, 457 00:28:49,553 --> 00:28:52,600 what they dreamed of, who they truly were-- 458 00:28:52,731 --> 00:28:55,429 and I wanna know about their families, 459 00:28:55,559 --> 00:28:58,867 because they are also Sam's victims. 460 00:28:59,041 --> 00:29:01,304 ♪ 461 00:29:01,435 --> 00:29:02,653 [children shouting] 462 00:29:06,092 --> 00:29:08,094 [Pearl] My mother, Audrey, 463 00:29:08,224 --> 00:29:10,836 fought for her life. 464 00:29:10,923 --> 00:29:12,881 I always think about, like, what she went through, 465 00:29:12,968 --> 00:29:15,710 what-what that was like for her. 466 00:29:15,841 --> 00:29:17,277 What else I got in here? 467 00:29:17,364 --> 00:29:19,496 [somber music] 468 00:29:19,583 --> 00:29:21,324 My name is Pearl, 469 00:29:21,455 --> 00:29:25,459 and I am Audrey Nelson's daughter. 470 00:29:25,546 --> 00:29:27,243 Samuel Little murdered my mother 471 00:29:27,374 --> 00:29:28,723 in Los Angeles. 472 00:29:30,203 --> 00:29:32,945 These are a couple little stuffed animals 473 00:29:33,075 --> 00:29:34,816 that my mom tried to send to me 474 00:29:34,947 --> 00:29:37,297 through my Uncle Bill 475 00:29:37,384 --> 00:29:40,604 so I would know that, uh, she was thinking of me. 476 00:29:40,735 --> 00:29:43,651 [Jillian] The multigenerational ripple effect 477 00:29:43,782 --> 00:29:46,741 of unsolved cold case murder 478 00:29:46,872 --> 00:29:48,917 is massive. 479 00:29:49,048 --> 00:29:51,311 For many of these families, 480 00:29:51,398 --> 00:29:53,748 I'm the first person they've told this story to, 481 00:29:53,879 --> 00:29:56,316 so I feel like it's my responsibility 482 00:29:56,403 --> 00:29:58,448 to hold their pain and listen to them. 483 00:29:58,622 --> 00:30:00,450 ♪ 484 00:30:00,581 --> 00:30:03,758 All those years not knowing what happened 485 00:30:03,889 --> 00:30:05,804 to my mother, Audrey, 486 00:30:05,934 --> 00:30:08,458 was very difficult. 487 00:30:08,589 --> 00:30:10,678 It's something that you really put 488 00:30:10,765 --> 00:30:12,506 deep inside of you, 489 00:30:12,636 --> 00:30:15,378 and it's terrible that you can't share that. 490 00:30:15,552 --> 00:30:17,685 ♪ 491 00:30:17,816 --> 00:30:20,296 And so one day, I get a message 492 00:30:20,427 --> 00:30:23,212 from a lady named Jillian Lauren, 493 00:30:23,299 --> 00:30:27,695 and she says that she was gonna be writing a book, 494 00:30:27,826 --> 00:30:31,220 and she wanted to know about my mother, Audrey. 495 00:30:32,004 --> 00:30:34,745 Jillian wanted to really shine some light 496 00:30:34,876 --> 00:30:36,399 -on the victims... -[knocking] 497 00:30:36,530 --> 00:30:38,271 ...and tell their story, 498 00:30:38,401 --> 00:30:39,794 and I said, "Yeah, come on up." 499 00:30:39,925 --> 00:30:42,536 [Jillian] Oh, gosh, hi! [laughs] 500 00:30:42,623 --> 00:30:43,667 How are you? 501 00:30:43,798 --> 00:30:44,799 [Pearl] Good. How are you? 502 00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:46,279 Good. 503 00:30:47,019 --> 00:30:48,977 [Pearl] These are the treasures that I have 504 00:30:49,108 --> 00:30:50,674 of my mother. 505 00:30:50,805 --> 00:30:52,198 This'll kind of be nice 506 00:30:52,328 --> 00:30:53,677 for you to see. 507 00:30:53,808 --> 00:30:56,332 Where's this photo from? 508 00:30:56,419 --> 00:30:58,334 Is that her high school yearbook? 509 00:30:58,465 --> 00:30:59,945 [Pearl] So this is what she looked like 510 00:31:00,075 --> 00:31:02,208 when she was 17. 511 00:31:03,035 --> 00:31:04,471 This is 1971... 512 00:31:04,601 --> 00:31:06,516 [Jillian] Mm. 513 00:31:06,647 --> 00:31:07,778 ...five years before I was born. 514 00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:09,215 Wow. 515 00:31:09,345 --> 00:31:11,217 [Pearl] I know. 516 00:31:11,347 --> 00:31:13,610 Look at her, so cute in her bikini and... 517 00:31:13,741 --> 00:31:15,830 just feeding those birds like that. 518 00:31:15,961 --> 00:31:17,788 She was so happy. 519 00:31:17,963 --> 00:31:20,400 ♪ 520 00:31:20,530 --> 00:31:23,664 This is the only photograph that I have 521 00:31:23,794 --> 00:31:25,753 of my mother holding me. 522 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,799 This is the most precious photograph 523 00:31:28,887 --> 00:31:30,453 in my entire life. 524 00:31:30,584 --> 00:31:33,456 She looks really proud. 525 00:31:34,588 --> 00:31:36,982 [Pearl] I was with my mother for a whole year 526 00:31:37,069 --> 00:31:40,550 before, um, she got arrested 527 00:31:40,681 --> 00:31:43,684 and Social Services said 528 00:31:43,771 --> 00:31:47,862 that, um, she wasn't fit to take care of me 529 00:31:47,949 --> 00:31:50,734 because of the life that she'd been living, 530 00:31:50,865 --> 00:31:52,998 because of the prostitution. 531 00:31:53,172 --> 00:31:54,608 ♪ 532 00:31:54,738 --> 00:31:57,741 So I was adopted 533 00:31:57,872 --> 00:32:01,441 by my grandmother and grandfather. 534 00:32:01,571 --> 00:32:05,314 But my mother did not ever wanna lose me. 535 00:32:06,837 --> 00:32:09,710 [eerie music] 536 00:32:09,797 --> 00:32:12,539 ♪ 537 00:32:12,669 --> 00:32:13,888 [sighing] Oh. 538 00:32:14,019 --> 00:32:17,500 Eighth grade school year, 539 00:32:17,631 --> 00:32:20,982 I was, uh, hanging my clothes 540 00:32:21,113 --> 00:32:23,289 up to dry on the porch, 541 00:32:23,419 --> 00:32:25,160 and the police... 542 00:32:25,291 --> 00:32:28,076 show up on the-on the doorstep, 543 00:32:28,207 --> 00:32:31,253 and Grandmother was like, 544 00:32:31,384 --> 00:32:32,602 "Oh, go to your room. Go to your room." 545 00:32:32,689 --> 00:32:33,734 I was like... 546 00:32:33,864 --> 00:32:35,388 You know, I just kind of hid. 547 00:32:35,475 --> 00:32:37,477 I just kind of hid and listened. 548 00:32:37,607 --> 00:32:39,044 They found out that she was just-- 549 00:32:39,174 --> 00:32:42,047 she was murdered in Los Angeles. 550 00:32:42,134 --> 00:32:43,744 They didn't catch the person 551 00:32:43,874 --> 00:32:45,528 or anything. 552 00:32:45,659 --> 00:32:47,400 My mother was gone, 553 00:32:47,530 --> 00:32:50,185 and all my chances of ever being with her again 554 00:32:50,272 --> 00:32:51,447 completely vanished. 555 00:32:53,884 --> 00:32:56,322 [sighs] 556 00:32:56,452 --> 00:32:57,801 [dramatic music] 557 00:32:57,932 --> 00:32:59,281 [news reporter] Investigators say 558 00:32:59,412 --> 00:33:01,240 this is the face of a serial killer, 559 00:33:01,370 --> 00:33:03,807 one who's managed to elude capture for years. 560 00:33:03,894 --> 00:33:05,722 [news reporter] Seventy-two-year-old 561 00:33:05,853 --> 00:33:07,507 Samuel Little is now charged with three cold case murders 562 00:33:07,637 --> 00:33:09,509 in California. 563 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,294 [Pearl] I could never forget that moment 564 00:33:12,425 --> 00:33:14,557 when, in 2014, 565 00:33:14,644 --> 00:33:16,472 I received a phone call 566 00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:19,127 from a detective in Los Angeles, 567 00:33:19,258 --> 00:33:20,999 Mitzi Roberts. 568 00:33:21,129 --> 00:33:23,653 And I said, um, "You caught the guy." 569 00:33:23,784 --> 00:33:26,091 She's like, "Yeah. We caught the guy." 570 00:33:26,221 --> 00:33:28,571 He's definitely the one that 571 00:33:28,702 --> 00:33:30,051 not only murdered my mother, 572 00:33:30,138 --> 00:33:33,228 but there is a couple other ladies. 573 00:33:33,359 --> 00:33:35,361 [news reporter] The victims were all mothers 574 00:33:35,491 --> 00:33:38,233 leading what police call high-risk lifestyles. 575 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,669 [Mitzi] He just seemed to always be 576 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,541 one step ahead of the law. 577 00:33:41,671 --> 00:33:43,282 Well, I know for sure it's-it's-- 578 00:33:43,412 --> 00:33:44,935 that's not the way it's gonna be this time. 579 00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:47,982 ♪ 580 00:33:51,638 --> 00:33:54,510 The months in between arrest and trial 581 00:33:54,641 --> 00:33:58,688 are just filled with preparing the best case 582 00:33:58,819 --> 00:34:02,431 for the murders of Audrey Nelson, 583 00:34:02,562 --> 00:34:06,000 Guadalupe Apodaca, 584 00:34:06,131 --> 00:34:08,350 and Carol Alford 585 00:34:08,481 --> 00:34:10,831 and not just rely on the DNA 586 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,702 but to put together a case 587 00:34:12,833 --> 00:34:15,357 that was so strong 588 00:34:15,487 --> 00:34:18,186 that we would leave the jury... [laughs] 589 00:34:18,317 --> 00:34:21,320 ...with no other choice but conviction. 590 00:34:21,449 --> 00:34:25,541 [Beth] No one's ever attempted to put it all together before, 591 00:34:25,672 --> 00:34:29,067 and so we were very immersed in... 592 00:34:29,197 --> 00:34:31,112 all of his prior crimes, 593 00:34:31,243 --> 00:34:35,246 reviewing files and talking to law enforcement, 594 00:34:35,377 --> 00:34:38,206 uh, and prosecutors across the country 595 00:34:38,293 --> 00:34:40,817 and digging up surviving victims 596 00:34:40,947 --> 00:34:43,081 so that the jury had as many of those puzzle pieces 597 00:34:43,210 --> 00:34:43,994 as they could. 598 00:34:44,168 --> 00:34:46,909 ♪ 599 00:34:47,041 --> 00:34:48,260 [Wayne] I remember that I got the call 600 00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:50,436 from LAPD Homicide. 601 00:34:50,565 --> 00:34:52,264 They said, "Detective Sergeant Spees?" 602 00:34:52,393 --> 00:34:56,442 and said, uh, "Thirty years ago, 603 00:34:56,572 --> 00:34:58,835 you arrested a guy for rape." 604 00:34:58,922 --> 00:35:01,447 And I said, "Sam Little." 605 00:35:01,577 --> 00:35:02,796 She said, "Do you remember the case?" 606 00:35:02,926 --> 00:35:04,754 and I said, "Absolutely. 607 00:35:04,885 --> 00:35:07,975 The Laurie Barros and Tonya Jackson case." 608 00:35:08,106 --> 00:35:10,934 She says, "Well, we have him on three homicides," 609 00:35:11,065 --> 00:35:13,850 and I was-I was, you know, blown away. 610 00:35:13,981 --> 00:35:16,157 And she goes, "And we made him on the DNA, 611 00:35:16,288 --> 00:35:18,116 the DNA that you guys collected." 612 00:35:18,246 --> 00:35:21,162 She was a great detective, uh, Mitzi Roberts, 613 00:35:21,249 --> 00:35:22,642 and, uh, you know, she said, 614 00:35:22,729 --> 00:35:23,643 "We're gonna-we're gonna have you testify." 615 00:35:23,730 --> 00:35:26,124 ♪ 616 00:35:26,254 --> 00:35:27,429 [Mitzi] We went around, and we talked 617 00:35:27,516 --> 00:35:29,518 to the surviving victims, 618 00:35:29,605 --> 00:35:33,479 um, the ones that wanted to-to talk, 619 00:35:33,609 --> 00:35:35,916 like Laurie, the surviving victim 620 00:35:36,046 --> 00:35:39,267 from the San Diego attack who was left for dead. 621 00:35:39,441 --> 00:35:41,313 ♪ 622 00:35:41,443 --> 00:35:42,792 [Laurie] When I got that phone call 623 00:35:42,923 --> 00:35:45,926 saying, "We need you to testify," 624 00:35:46,056 --> 00:35:48,624 I think all the air was sucked out of me. 625 00:35:48,755 --> 00:35:50,887 [sighs] 626 00:35:51,018 --> 00:35:54,587 I had no idea that he served only two and a half years 627 00:35:54,717 --> 00:35:57,720 for two attempted murders, rapes-- 628 00:35:57,851 --> 00:36:01,159 very sadistic ones, no less-- 629 00:36:01,289 --> 00:36:02,551 until Mitzi told me. 630 00:36:02,725 --> 00:36:04,640 ♪ 631 00:36:04,771 --> 00:36:06,860 I lost it. 632 00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:08,514 I broke down, 633 00:36:08,601 --> 00:36:11,778 and I-I... I was scared all over again. 634 00:36:11,908 --> 00:36:14,172 I-I... 635 00:36:14,302 --> 00:36:16,652 I didn't wanna do it. 636 00:36:16,783 --> 00:36:17,827 [Mitzi] God, I was on the phone with her 637 00:36:17,958 --> 00:36:18,959 for probably three hours, 638 00:36:19,089 --> 00:36:20,090 just talking her through it 639 00:36:20,221 --> 00:36:22,005 and trying to convince her 640 00:36:22,136 --> 00:36:23,920 that I know it seems so hard now 641 00:36:24,051 --> 00:36:26,532 but that-that she had to trust us. 642 00:36:26,662 --> 00:36:29,404 "This is your chance to take back the power 643 00:36:29,535 --> 00:36:31,014 "and to tell your story. 644 00:36:31,145 --> 00:36:32,799 This is for you too." 645 00:36:32,929 --> 00:36:35,758 We, for whatever reason as a society, 646 00:36:35,889 --> 00:36:38,848 treat victims of sexual assault 647 00:36:38,979 --> 00:36:41,416 different than we treat victims of any other crime. 648 00:36:41,547 --> 00:36:44,419 Sexual assault victims tend to be treated 649 00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:47,074 on the stand like they're liars, 650 00:36:47,205 --> 00:36:49,859 but it's not gonna happen on this case. 651 00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:52,122 [desolate music] 652 00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:54,560 Surviving victims on cases like this, 653 00:36:54,647 --> 00:36:57,084 they are gold. 654 00:36:57,171 --> 00:37:01,436 They are the... linchpin 655 00:37:01,567 --> 00:37:05,005 that allows a jury to actually understand 656 00:37:05,135 --> 00:37:06,920 what happened to all of these women 657 00:37:07,050 --> 00:37:08,487 who can no longer speak 658 00:37:08,617 --> 00:37:10,402 because they're in their graves. 659 00:37:10,576 --> 00:37:13,492 ♪ 660 00:37:18,192 --> 00:37:19,933 [Darren] The prosecutor, who was Beth Silverman, 661 00:37:20,063 --> 00:37:21,108 she calls me. 662 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:22,544 She wanted to be sure 663 00:37:22,675 --> 00:37:24,154 she brought every witness she could get. 664 00:37:24,285 --> 00:37:25,634 She wanted all of us there. 665 00:37:25,765 --> 00:37:27,593 I call Leila McClain, 666 00:37:27,723 --> 00:37:30,030 and I call Hilda Nelson, 667 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,468 the two victims that survived his attack in Pascagoula, 668 00:37:33,555 --> 00:37:35,296 and I let them know that he's in custody, 669 00:37:35,427 --> 00:37:36,950 and they were like, "Oh, thank you, Jesus. 670 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,169 Thank you, Jesus," and they were all ready to go. 671 00:37:39,300 --> 00:37:40,432 They were excited. 672 00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:41,824 They could have their day in court. 673 00:37:41,998 --> 00:37:44,871 ♪ 674 00:37:45,915 --> 00:37:48,918 [Beth] In August of 2014, 675 00:37:49,049 --> 00:37:52,226 the trial against Sam Little began. 676 00:37:52,357 --> 00:37:54,533 He comes across looking much different 677 00:37:54,620 --> 00:37:56,230 now that all these decades have gone by, 678 00:37:56,361 --> 00:37:58,101 and he's sitting in a wheelchair, 679 00:37:58,232 --> 00:37:59,929 and so one of the pieces of evidence 680 00:38:00,060 --> 00:38:02,018 that I like to use is photographs, 681 00:38:02,149 --> 00:38:04,934 as many photographs as the detectives can find 682 00:38:05,021 --> 00:38:06,762 of what he looked like at the time 683 00:38:06,893 --> 00:38:08,242 that he was sexually assaulting 684 00:38:08,373 --> 00:38:09,765 and trying to kill these women, 685 00:38:09,896 --> 00:38:11,332 as opposed to the little old man 686 00:38:11,463 --> 00:38:12,725 sitting in the wheelchair. 687 00:38:12,899 --> 00:38:14,770 ♪ 688 00:38:14,901 --> 00:38:16,598 The defense was that he didn't do 689 00:38:16,685 --> 00:38:18,121 any of these crimes, that he wasn't, uh, 690 00:38:18,252 --> 00:38:19,949 even a sex offender, 691 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,343 that he had consensual sex with these women, 692 00:38:22,474 --> 00:38:24,171 that they were women 693 00:38:24,302 --> 00:38:25,955 who had prostituted themselves 694 00:38:26,042 --> 00:38:28,871 and probably had consensual sex with a number of men, 695 00:38:29,002 --> 00:38:31,309 so either he's a serial killer, 696 00:38:31,439 --> 00:38:34,050 or he's just the unluckiest guy on the-on the planet. 697 00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:37,706 And so in the opening statement, the jury was told 698 00:38:37,837 --> 00:38:40,709 that the surviving victims were going to come in 699 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,624 and they were going to be able 700 00:38:42,711 --> 00:38:46,759 to establish a blueprint for what likely happened 701 00:38:46,889 --> 00:38:49,370 to the three victims who were murdered here in LA, 702 00:38:49,501 --> 00:38:54,027 Audrey Nelson, Carol Alford, and Guadalupe Apodaca. 703 00:38:54,201 --> 00:38:56,377 ♪ 704 00:38:56,508 --> 00:38:59,467 Two separate victims from Pascagoula, Mississippi, 705 00:38:59,598 --> 00:39:00,860 Leila and Hilda, 706 00:39:00,990 --> 00:39:02,862 who were survivors, 707 00:39:02,992 --> 00:39:06,822 told stories that were strikingly similar. 708 00:39:06,909 --> 00:39:09,347 [Darren] Leila McClain tells a story 709 00:39:09,434 --> 00:39:12,219 to where she is actually in a bar in Carver Village 710 00:39:12,306 --> 00:39:14,047 when she is approached, uh, 711 00:39:14,177 --> 00:39:16,092 and-and offered a date, 712 00:39:16,223 --> 00:39:18,356 and she gets in the car 713 00:39:18,486 --> 00:39:20,140 with Sam Little. 714 00:39:20,270 --> 00:39:22,185 [eerie music] 715 00:39:22,316 --> 00:39:25,493 Here are the... trial transcripts 716 00:39:25,624 --> 00:39:26,929 from Los Angeles. 717 00:39:27,060 --> 00:39:30,324 These are all 4,000-something pages 718 00:39:30,455 --> 00:39:31,412 of the trial. 719 00:39:33,066 --> 00:39:35,155 Let me find Leila's testimony. 720 00:39:35,329 --> 00:39:37,505 ♪ 721 00:39:37,636 --> 00:39:39,246 "As we was going around the corner, 722 00:39:39,377 --> 00:39:41,683 "I say, 'Go back that way.' 723 00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:43,772 "He say, 'I don't need to turn around 724 00:39:43,859 --> 00:39:45,121 for what I want to do to you.'" 725 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,342 "And then he hit me right here 726 00:39:48,473 --> 00:39:49,778 "in between my eyes 727 00:39:49,909 --> 00:39:51,867 and then coldcocked me behind my head." 728 00:39:53,216 --> 00:39:54,392 "So you fought back?" 729 00:39:54,522 --> 00:39:56,785 "With everything I had." 730 00:39:56,916 --> 00:39:58,483 "Did you think that he was trying to kill you, 731 00:39:58,613 --> 00:39:59,832 choke you to death?" 732 00:39:59,962 --> 00:40:02,487 "Definitely. He was going to kill me." 733 00:40:04,619 --> 00:40:07,796 [Mitzi] When it came time for fireball Leila to identify 734 00:40:07,883 --> 00:40:10,059 the person you're testifying about in court, 735 00:40:10,190 --> 00:40:12,105 she turns and says, 736 00:40:12,235 --> 00:40:13,759 "Yeah, it's that man over there, 737 00:40:13,889 --> 00:40:15,630 only he's uglier now." [laughs] 738 00:40:15,761 --> 00:40:18,067 And I just thought that was the greatest. 739 00:40:18,198 --> 00:40:20,592 So, um--and Sam didn't like that too much. 740 00:40:20,722 --> 00:40:22,376 [melancholy music] 741 00:40:22,463 --> 00:40:24,552 [Darren] What I do find ironic about all this 742 00:40:24,683 --> 00:40:27,076 is that these people that we looked at 743 00:40:27,207 --> 00:40:31,864 as maybe not really reliable witnesses 744 00:40:31,994 --> 00:40:33,474 in 1982 745 00:40:33,605 --> 00:40:36,477 were heroes and stars 746 00:40:36,564 --> 00:40:39,654 in California in 2014 747 00:40:39,785 --> 00:40:42,048 when they helped prosecute Sam Little. 748 00:40:42,222 --> 00:40:45,094 ♪ 749 00:40:45,225 --> 00:40:47,140 [Mitzi] When Laurie got to court, 750 00:40:47,227 --> 00:40:48,794 it hit her finally 751 00:40:48,924 --> 00:40:50,404 that this was real 752 00:40:50,535 --> 00:40:51,927 and that she was gonna have to face this guy. 753 00:40:52,014 --> 00:40:56,323 She went into a complete panic attack. 754 00:40:56,497 --> 00:40:58,891 ♪ 755 00:40:59,021 --> 00:41:01,502 [Laurie] Just really triggered by the courtroom itself, 756 00:41:01,589 --> 00:41:03,069 you know, the building, 757 00:41:03,199 --> 00:41:04,723 just think-bringing memories back 758 00:41:04,853 --> 00:41:07,073 and a feeling like I'm not gonna be believed 759 00:41:07,203 --> 00:41:09,249 and I'm gonna be judged and I'm-- 760 00:41:09,379 --> 00:41:11,643 why am I electing to do this to myself again? 761 00:41:11,817 --> 00:41:15,037 ♪ 762 00:41:15,168 --> 00:41:17,387 [Mitzi] We just told her, "This is your conviction, 763 00:41:17,475 --> 00:41:20,739 what you should've gotten so many years ago," 764 00:41:20,869 --> 00:41:23,306 and then she got it together, and she was so good 765 00:41:23,437 --> 00:41:24,656 and so powerful. 766 00:41:26,396 --> 00:41:28,486 [Laurie] And I looked him in the face 767 00:41:28,616 --> 00:41:30,400 multiple times. 768 00:41:30,531 --> 00:41:31,924 "You don't win." 769 00:41:32,011 --> 00:41:34,143 ♪ 770 00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:36,668 [Beth] One thing I noticed about the surviving victims 771 00:41:36,798 --> 00:41:39,148 was that the longer they sat on the stand, 772 00:41:39,279 --> 00:41:41,716 the more comfortable they became 773 00:41:41,803 --> 00:41:44,110 trying to show Sam Little 774 00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:46,982 that they were stronger than him 775 00:41:47,113 --> 00:41:51,247 and that they had risen above what he had done to them. 776 00:41:55,338 --> 00:41:56,252 [Jillian] Mm-hmm. 777 00:42:17,143 --> 00:42:18,057 [Sam laughs] 778 00:42:20,407 --> 00:42:22,061 [Jillian] Yeah, yeah. 779 00:42:22,148 --> 00:42:24,280 Well, she believes that was the truth. 780 00:42:24,454 --> 00:42:26,456 ♪ 781 00:42:26,587 --> 00:42:28,067 [Mitzi] It was a bunch of powerful women 782 00:42:28,197 --> 00:42:30,373 that took him down. 783 00:42:30,460 --> 00:42:32,419 That's something that Sam never had to deal-- 784 00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:36,554 he was used to overpowering these women 785 00:42:36,684 --> 00:42:38,947 and then getting away with it and getting away with it, 786 00:42:39,078 --> 00:42:40,775 and I really think he thought again, 787 00:42:40,906 --> 00:42:42,603 he was gonna get away with it this time. 788 00:42:42,734 --> 00:42:45,650 But, you know, the jig is up, 789 00:42:45,780 --> 00:42:47,216 as they say. 790 00:42:47,303 --> 00:42:49,218 ♪ 791 00:43:01,622 --> 00:43:04,103 [Jillian] She did a hell- she did a hell of a job. 792 00:43:04,233 --> 00:43:05,844 She really did. You got to admit it. 793 00:43:07,628 --> 00:43:10,544 ♪ 794 00:43:12,633 --> 00:43:17,116 [Mitzi] September 2, 2014, 795 00:43:17,246 --> 00:43:19,466 the verdict was read, and Sam was convicted 796 00:43:19,597 --> 00:43:21,990 of all three counts of murder, first degree. 797 00:43:22,164 --> 00:43:25,080 ♪ 798 00:43:27,039 --> 00:43:28,606 [news reporter] The relatives of Little's victims 799 00:43:28,736 --> 00:43:31,043 spoke out during today's sentencing hearing. 800 00:43:31,173 --> 00:43:33,828 Afterwards, they gathered in a courthouse hallway, 801 00:43:33,959 --> 00:43:36,657 total strangers brought together by tragedy. 802 00:43:36,788 --> 00:43:38,833 I was 13 when I had to bury her. 803 00:43:38,964 --> 00:43:40,835 I had to say goodbye. 804 00:43:40,966 --> 00:43:42,489 [news reporter] Pearl Unique Nelson says her mother 805 00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:44,622 was just starting to get her life back together 806 00:43:44,709 --> 00:43:46,754 when she was murdered in 1989. 807 00:43:46,885 --> 00:43:49,017 We got him. He's gone. 808 00:43:49,148 --> 00:43:50,845 He can't hurt anybody now. 809 00:43:50,932 --> 00:43:52,455 ♪ 810 00:43:52,586 --> 00:43:54,283 I think when Samuel Little knew, 811 00:43:54,414 --> 00:43:57,373 "The show is over, and now I'm going to jail," 812 00:43:57,460 --> 00:44:00,420 he was just more dark and angry. 813 00:44:00,550 --> 00:44:02,378 His eyes changed. 814 00:44:02,509 --> 00:44:05,512 Could never forget that moment. 815 00:44:05,643 --> 00:44:07,340 [news reporter] Seventy-four-year-old 816 00:44:07,427 --> 00:44:09,037 Samuel Little swore at the victims' relatives 817 00:44:09,168 --> 00:44:10,560 and shouted in the courtroom 818 00:44:10,691 --> 00:44:12,301 during the sentencing hearing, 819 00:44:12,432 --> 00:44:13,651 denying that he committed the killings. 820 00:44:18,656 --> 00:44:19,657 I didn't do it. 821 00:44:20,875 --> 00:44:21,833 [bleep]. 822 00:44:25,271 --> 00:44:26,533 [bleep]. 823 00:44:31,799 --> 00:44:33,671 [judge] Mr. Little, that's enough. 824 00:44:39,241 --> 00:44:40,721 [news reporter] Tony Zambrano is talking 825 00:44:40,808 --> 00:44:43,202 about his mother, Guadalupe Apodaca. 826 00:44:43,289 --> 00:44:45,726 In this photo, Tony is seen smiling, 827 00:44:45,813 --> 00:44:48,163 sitting alongside his brother and mother, 828 00:44:48,294 --> 00:44:50,688 who was murdered by Little in 1989. 829 00:44:50,775 --> 00:44:52,124 It was a big mystery. 830 00:44:52,254 --> 00:44:53,212 You know, um, you know, that's-that's-- 831 00:44:53,342 --> 00:44:54,604 that was--been the worst part, 832 00:44:54,735 --> 00:44:56,563 not knowing, you know, who did it. 833 00:44:56,694 --> 00:44:58,043 If you have a mom out there, you know, call her up, 834 00:44:58,173 --> 00:44:59,697 and, you know, tell her you love her, 835 00:44:59,827 --> 00:45:00,698 because you might not have another chance. 836 00:45:02,656 --> 00:45:04,658 [Mitzi] Then it was Sam's turn to speak, 837 00:45:04,789 --> 00:45:06,965 and he gave some spiel 838 00:45:07,095 --> 00:45:10,185 about how it was a modern-day lynching. 839 00:45:10,316 --> 00:45:14,146 This conviction was brought on by lies 840 00:45:14,276 --> 00:45:17,410 and liars coached by liars. 841 00:45:17,497 --> 00:45:19,499 [Mitzi] He said Beth and I, you know, 842 00:45:19,629 --> 00:45:23,459 made up lies and the victims are all liars. 843 00:45:23,546 --> 00:45:26,245 The obsession of labeling me as a serial killer 844 00:45:26,375 --> 00:45:29,074 without any proof, any bodies, 845 00:45:29,204 --> 00:45:30,815 was a legal lynching. 846 00:45:30,945 --> 00:45:32,642 [dramatic music] 847 00:45:32,730 --> 00:45:34,296 [Mitzi] The judge sentenced him to the maximum, 848 00:45:34,383 --> 00:45:35,733 which was three life sentences 849 00:45:35,863 --> 00:45:37,430 with no possibility of parole. 850 00:45:39,127 --> 00:45:40,607 [Jillian] Even after Sam Little 851 00:45:40,738 --> 00:45:42,348 was finally convicted 852 00:45:42,478 --> 00:45:45,917 of three murders in 2014, 853 00:45:46,047 --> 00:45:50,878 he... vehemently denied 854 00:45:51,009 --> 00:45:54,273 he committed these crimes 855 00:45:54,403 --> 00:45:58,059 until 2018, when he began confessing to me. 856 00:45:59,495 --> 00:46:01,715 Sam still does go on these rants 857 00:46:01,846 --> 00:46:03,673 about how he was framed. 858 00:46:03,804 --> 00:46:06,633 "DNA doesn't prove anything. Just proved that I was there." 859 00:46:06,764 --> 00:46:08,983 And I'm like, "But you did it! 860 00:46:09,114 --> 00:46:11,333 "Just say you did it. 861 00:46:11,464 --> 00:46:13,161 "Just admit it. 862 00:46:13,292 --> 00:46:14,641 "Just say you're guilty, 863 00:46:14,772 --> 00:46:17,949 'cause you are guilty." 864 00:46:18,079 --> 00:46:19,298 And he did. 865 00:46:19,472 --> 00:46:21,039 ♪ 866 00:46:21,169 --> 00:46:22,605 I feel like we haven't talked 867 00:46:22,736 --> 00:46:25,739 about the victims 868 00:46:25,870 --> 00:46:27,697 that you were convicted for. 869 00:46:27,828 --> 00:46:29,656 I wanna hear about Audrey. 870 00:46:29,787 --> 00:46:32,093 I wanna hear about Lupe. 871 00:46:32,224 --> 00:46:35,618 I want you to walk me through them, one by one. 872 00:46:39,361 --> 00:46:40,275 [Jillian] That's right. 873 00:46:50,024 --> 00:46:51,765 [Jillian] Do you know she was an artist, too, 874 00:46:51,896 --> 00:46:52,810 like you? 875 00:46:57,031 --> 00:46:59,512 ♪ 876 00:46:59,642 --> 00:47:02,602 Did you ever ask Sam about Audrey? 877 00:47:02,732 --> 00:47:03,821 I did. 878 00:47:03,951 --> 00:47:05,126 Did he even remember that one? 879 00:47:05,257 --> 00:47:06,649 Yes. 880 00:47:06,736 --> 00:47:10,088 He remembered, um... [sighs] 881 00:47:10,218 --> 00:47:11,654 How much do you wanna know? 882 00:47:11,785 --> 00:47:13,308 Just tell me. 883 00:47:13,439 --> 00:47:15,702 So she was staying at a hotel 884 00:47:15,833 --> 00:47:17,704 in downtown LA. 885 00:47:17,791 --> 00:47:20,446 She was walking down the street. 886 00:47:20,576 --> 00:47:23,536 He pulled up, picked her up, 887 00:47:23,666 --> 00:47:25,843 and they went and got some heroin, 888 00:47:25,973 --> 00:47:29,498 they got high in the back of his car, 889 00:47:29,629 --> 00:47:30,848 and that he strangled her 890 00:47:30,978 --> 00:47:33,241 on the floor of the car, 891 00:47:33,372 --> 00:47:35,504 um, and it was right there 892 00:47:35,635 --> 00:47:38,420 in the... parking lot 893 00:47:38,551 --> 00:47:40,422 where he left her. 894 00:47:40,509 --> 00:47:45,210 Um, he half picked her up, half dragged her, 895 00:47:45,340 --> 00:47:46,776 uh, out of the car 896 00:47:46,907 --> 00:47:49,910 and put her in the-in the dumpster... 897 00:47:50,041 --> 00:47:52,217 -Mm-hmm. -...where she was left, 898 00:47:52,347 --> 00:47:53,435 and you've seen her. 899 00:47:53,566 --> 00:47:55,089 Yes. 900 00:47:55,176 --> 00:47:57,700 No, nothing's pretty about what he does. 901 00:47:57,831 --> 00:47:59,311 I just feel like, you know, 902 00:47:59,441 --> 00:48:01,487 that Sam Little--just, he... 903 00:48:01,617 --> 00:48:03,184 he was kind of just jonesing 904 00:48:03,315 --> 00:48:05,708 for-for a quick kill. 905 00:48:05,839 --> 00:48:08,102 He just saw someone. 906 00:48:08,233 --> 00:48:09,625 Unfortunately, it was her. 907 00:48:09,712 --> 00:48:11,453 I think that's correct, 908 00:48:11,584 --> 00:48:14,848 that it was more of a chance... 909 00:48:14,979 --> 00:48:16,806 -Yeah, it wasn't-- -...encounter. 910 00:48:16,937 --> 00:48:19,157 Yeah. 911 00:48:19,287 --> 00:48:21,289 She fought. She-she fought. 912 00:48:21,376 --> 00:48:22,421 She fought him. 913 00:48:22,551 --> 00:48:25,076 She was kicking and screaming, 914 00:48:25,206 --> 00:48:27,165 and you could tell by all the bruises, 915 00:48:27,252 --> 00:48:29,689 and he was dragging her. 916 00:48:29,819 --> 00:48:31,647 Sh-she was fighting for her life. 917 00:48:31,821 --> 00:48:33,954 ♪ 918 00:48:34,085 --> 00:48:36,087 Knowing what happened, I feel 919 00:48:36,217 --> 00:48:37,827 like, uh, the chapter 920 00:48:37,958 --> 00:48:40,047 has been closed on a book. 921 00:48:42,049 --> 00:48:45,748 I feel that now my mother, Audrey, 922 00:48:45,835 --> 00:48:48,360 can really rest in peace. 923 00:48:48,534 --> 00:48:51,450 ♪ 924 00:48:53,060 --> 00:48:57,282 [Jillian] This story, Audrey's story, 925 00:48:57,412 --> 00:49:00,546 will never leave me. 926 00:49:00,676 --> 00:49:04,854 After seeing the Audrey Nelson crime scene photos, 927 00:49:04,985 --> 00:49:07,292 I kept having these dreams 928 00:49:07,422 --> 00:49:11,078 that my kids were in a dumpster, 929 00:49:11,209 --> 00:49:12,645 that my dogs were in a dumpster. 930 00:49:12,775 --> 00:49:15,126 Like, I just kept having these dreams that 931 00:49:15,256 --> 00:49:16,823 my husband would just be sobbing. 932 00:49:16,954 --> 00:49:18,912 [indistinct chatter] 933 00:49:19,043 --> 00:49:21,132 -Catch! -Oh, game over! 934 00:49:22,916 --> 00:49:24,787 [Jillian] The Sam Little project 935 00:49:24,918 --> 00:49:26,180 wears on you. 936 00:49:26,267 --> 00:49:27,660 It wears on the relationship. 937 00:49:27,790 --> 00:49:29,444 It wears on the family. 938 00:49:29,575 --> 00:49:30,924 [operator] ...call from a telephone-- 939 00:49:31,055 --> 00:49:32,926 ...call from a telephone number... 940 00:49:33,057 --> 00:49:36,495 [Jillian] The repetitiveness of it, 941 00:49:36,625 --> 00:49:38,976 the consistent demands 942 00:49:39,106 --> 00:49:42,022 of a sociopath 943 00:49:42,153 --> 00:49:44,503 who, by definition, 944 00:49:44,633 --> 00:49:48,550 is a psychic vampire... 945 00:49:48,637 --> 00:49:51,379 but I've always tried to provide 946 00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:54,730 a safe space for my children 947 00:49:54,817 --> 00:49:56,341 and my family 948 00:49:56,471 --> 00:49:58,560 around this work, 949 00:49:58,647 --> 00:50:00,823 and there's a lot to negotiate. 950 00:50:02,651 --> 00:50:04,436 So, T, how do you feel 951 00:50:04,566 --> 00:50:06,916 about what I'm writing about right now? 952 00:50:07,047 --> 00:50:08,788 [Tariku] It's kind of cool. 953 00:50:08,918 --> 00:50:10,529 What's cool about it? 954 00:50:10,659 --> 00:50:12,009 I like stories. 955 00:50:12,139 --> 00:50:13,401 [Jillian] You think the story about Sam 956 00:50:13,532 --> 00:50:14,794 is a pretty good story? 957 00:50:14,924 --> 00:50:16,230 [Tariku] Yeah. 958 00:50:16,361 --> 00:50:18,145 You think it has a good villain in it? 959 00:50:18,276 --> 00:50:19,929 Well... 960 00:50:20,060 --> 00:50:22,628 he's kind of too villainous 961 00:50:22,758 --> 00:50:25,370 and, like, he just doesn't care 962 00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:26,936 who dies and who lives. 963 00:50:27,067 --> 00:50:30,114 Yeah, he doesn't really have empathy, right? 964 00:50:31,028 --> 00:50:33,900 My 12-year-old is really curious, 965 00:50:34,031 --> 00:50:36,729 and he's really interested in the forensics of it, 966 00:50:36,859 --> 00:50:39,514 and he's sort of a junior detective. 967 00:50:40,776 --> 00:50:43,127 He wants to understand DNA. He wants to talk about it. 968 00:50:45,085 --> 00:50:46,826 Now, my eight-year-old... 969 00:50:46,913 --> 00:50:48,175 You win. 970 00:50:48,306 --> 00:50:50,264 -You get your hugs later. -All right. 971 00:50:50,395 --> 00:50:52,571 ...I just try to keep him away as much as I can, 972 00:50:52,701 --> 00:50:54,703 but he knows. 973 00:50:54,834 --> 00:50:56,836 [sighs] 974 00:50:57,837 --> 00:51:00,796 Do you feel like, um, 975 00:51:00,927 --> 00:51:04,278 my working on this story has... 976 00:51:04,365 --> 00:51:07,890 affected our-our family and our lives? 977 00:51:08,021 --> 00:51:11,198 Because... dealing with someone without empathy 978 00:51:11,329 --> 00:51:12,547 -can be very... -[Tariku] Mm-hmm. 979 00:51:12,634 --> 00:51:14,375 -...difficult. -[Tariku] Yeah. 980 00:51:14,506 --> 00:51:16,464 How do you feel like it's affected us? 981 00:51:16,551 --> 00:51:19,467 Because you can't, like-- 982 00:51:19,598 --> 00:51:23,341 you can't be mad at him. 983 00:51:23,471 --> 00:51:25,299 Well, you can be mad at him, but, like, 984 00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:27,997 you can't, like, show your anger. 985 00:51:28,085 --> 00:51:32,219 Otherwise, you can't get the stuff that you need. 986 00:51:32,350 --> 00:51:36,789 And--but then you have-- you let it out at home. 987 00:51:38,399 --> 00:51:41,054 But if you could let it out, 988 00:51:41,185 --> 00:51:43,404 I bet it would be a different story 989 00:51:43,535 --> 00:51:46,625 and... all this would be different. 990 00:51:46,755 --> 00:51:48,801 [Scott] I'm not resenting the project. 991 00:51:48,931 --> 00:51:51,369 I'm not resenting anyone 992 00:51:51,499 --> 00:51:53,936 other than probably Sam himself, 993 00:51:54,067 --> 00:51:56,461 and, uh, I guess 994 00:51:56,591 --> 00:51:59,420 that it-it feels important and necessary, 995 00:51:59,551 --> 00:52:01,335 but I don't want our kids 996 00:52:01,466 --> 00:52:02,771 really being exposed to it that much. 997 00:52:02,858 --> 00:52:04,599 ♪ 998 00:52:04,730 --> 00:52:06,471 And there's times where I'm like, 999 00:52:06,601 --> 00:52:08,821 "I just can't hear any more about this." 1000 00:52:08,908 --> 00:52:10,779 ♪ 1001 00:52:10,866 --> 00:52:13,217 So right now, we figured out a way 1002 00:52:13,347 --> 00:52:14,696 where it's just like, "Listen, 1003 00:52:14,827 --> 00:52:16,394 "y-just go up and work. 1004 00:52:16,481 --> 00:52:19,310 "Can't come down here and-and talk about this 1005 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,313 in this kind of space we're in with the kids and stuff." 1006 00:52:22,487 --> 00:52:24,706 ♪ 1007 00:52:24,793 --> 00:52:26,578 I have-I have been a little angry. 1008 00:52:26,708 --> 00:52:27,709 [Tariku] Mm. 1009 00:52:31,626 --> 00:52:32,627 I'm sorry. 1010 00:52:32,758 --> 00:52:34,020 It's okay. 1011 00:52:34,151 --> 00:52:35,587 [melancholy music] 1012 00:52:35,674 --> 00:52:38,067 -Yeah. -I'm not angry at you. 1013 00:52:38,198 --> 00:52:40,244 -I know. -You gave me a great manicure. 1014 00:52:41,810 --> 00:52:43,682 Wanna do another coat? 1015 00:52:43,856 --> 00:52:46,380 ♪ 1016 00:52:46,511 --> 00:52:47,686 [Scott] I've always had a-a feeling 1017 00:52:47,816 --> 00:52:49,688 that we're drawn into things 1018 00:52:49,818 --> 00:52:52,256 for a reason, and... 1019 00:52:52,386 --> 00:52:54,867 these victims' stories need to be told, 1020 00:52:54,997 --> 00:52:58,000 and... it's really, really important to her, 1021 00:52:58,131 --> 00:53:02,004 and I feel it's-it's important to the souls of these... 1022 00:53:02,135 --> 00:53:03,441 people. 1023 00:53:03,615 --> 00:53:06,661 ♪ 1024 00:53:06,792 --> 00:53:09,098 [Jillian] I believe in the project, 1025 00:53:09,229 --> 00:53:10,839 and I-I believe in the case, 1026 00:53:10,970 --> 00:53:13,494 and I-I wound up in the middle of it 1027 00:53:13,625 --> 00:53:15,975 before I even understood 1028 00:53:16,062 --> 00:53:17,237 what it was. 1029 00:53:17,411 --> 00:53:19,544 ♪ 1030 00:53:19,674 --> 00:53:22,242 It's taken its toll 1031 00:53:22,329 --> 00:53:24,853 on myself and my family. 1032 00:53:24,984 --> 00:53:27,769 [disquieting music] 1033 00:53:27,943 --> 00:53:31,120 ♪ 1034 00:53:32,034 --> 00:53:36,561 I never expected to be solving cold cases, 1035 00:53:36,691 --> 00:53:41,435 but it is a mission for me now. 1036 00:53:41,522 --> 00:53:43,611 I have a compulsion 1037 00:53:43,742 --> 00:53:47,354 or an obsession... 1038 00:53:47,485 --> 00:53:50,749 to bring justice to these victims... 1039 00:53:50,879 --> 00:53:51,880 Oh, yeah, look at that. 1040 00:53:52,011 --> 00:53:53,926 ...before he dies, 1041 00:53:54,056 --> 00:53:58,713 because so many of these mysteries, 1042 00:53:58,844 --> 00:54:00,802 so many of these Jane Does, 1043 00:54:00,933 --> 00:54:01,977 die with him. 1044 00:54:02,151 --> 00:54:05,024 ♪