1 00:00:11,657 --> 00:00:15,453 There was a boy across the street whose mother was so lazy that… 2 00:00:16,704 --> 00:00:18,914 he would-- he would eat ice cream for breakfast. 3 00:00:18,998 --> 00:00:22,084 -[Martin] Oh! -I would go to his house to go to school, 4 00:00:22,168 --> 00:00:24,628 and he would be sitting on the counter, something if I did… 5 00:00:24,712 --> 00:00:28,424 -Oh, you'd be-- Yes. [laughs] -…I would have been sent to prison. 6 00:00:28,507 --> 00:00:34,096 But, I mean, that household was, to me, like… like the Marquis de Sade. 7 00:00:34,180 --> 00:00:36,140 There were children sitting on the counter. 8 00:00:36,223 --> 00:00:39,018 One time I walked in, and not only was he eating ice cream… 9 00:00:39,101 --> 00:00:42,563 This is like seven o'clock in the morning. He's eating it, not with a spoon… 10 00:00:42,646 --> 00:00:44,982 First, out of the box, which was never allowed at my house. 11 00:00:45,066 --> 00:00:46,275 -Oh! -…with a pretzel! 12 00:00:46,358 --> 00:00:48,110 [laughs] 13 00:00:48,736 --> 00:00:51,697 And I thought, "These people. It's just unbelievable how they live." 14 00:00:55,409 --> 00:00:58,621 You and I discussed this backstage briefly. Could we-- 15 00:00:58,704 --> 00:01:00,372 -Smoke. -Could we smoke. 16 00:01:00,456 --> 00:01:01,957 -On stage. -And we can't. 17 00:01:02,041 --> 00:01:05,169 -We can't, because it's against the law. -It's against the law. 18 00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:09,090 ["Nicotine" by Jane Birkin playing] 19 00:01:34,281 --> 00:01:35,366 [Martin] Here we are. 20 00:01:36,408 --> 00:01:38,911 -[Martin] What do you think? This is it. -[Fran] It's fine. 21 00:01:38,994 --> 00:01:40,037 [Martin] Let's do it. 22 00:01:40,121 --> 00:01:41,288 [woman] Just… 23 00:01:41,372 --> 00:01:42,331 I'm sorry? 24 00:01:42,414 --> 00:01:45,501 -No. No hairspray, because my… -[Martin] You can't do it. 25 00:01:45,584 --> 00:01:47,419 -I can hardly breathe as it is. -[woman] Okay. 26 00:01:47,503 --> 00:01:48,712 -You might as well just… -Yeah. 27 00:01:48,796 --> 00:01:50,923 …suck on an exhaust pipe. -[Martin laughing] 28 00:01:51,006 --> 00:01:52,258 [chuckles] Right? No… 29 00:01:53,050 --> 00:01:55,219 I want the lung damage in my body 30 00:01:55,302 --> 00:01:56,887 -to be from smoking. -[Martin] Yeah, yeah. 31 00:01:58,722 --> 00:02:00,975 [Martin] Do you have a feeling about this philosophy 32 00:02:01,058 --> 00:02:04,687 of aerobics and exercise prolonging your life, and… 33 00:02:05,563 --> 00:02:08,315 Well, I guess… I mean… I don't have a philosophy about it. 34 00:02:08,399 --> 00:02:10,067 You know, I do… You know… 35 00:02:10,151 --> 00:02:14,446 Very few people used to exercise, when I was, like, a child or a kid. 36 00:02:14,530 --> 00:02:18,200 Um… People didn't used to exercise as a thing to do. 37 00:02:18,284 --> 00:02:20,161 -Mm-hmm. -People were certainly much more active. 38 00:02:20,244 --> 00:02:22,621 -There's no question. Children especially. -Yeah. 39 00:02:22,705 --> 00:02:26,167 Because we weren't even allowed to stay in the house, okay? 40 00:02:26,250 --> 00:02:27,251 -[laughs] -So-- And not-- 41 00:02:27,334 --> 00:02:29,545 -That was not peculiar to my household. -No. 42 00:02:29,628 --> 00:02:30,880 So that-- "Get out!" 43 00:02:31,630 --> 00:02:33,632 -[laughing] -You know? I mean, "Just get out!" 44 00:02:33,716 --> 00:02:37,052 And it wasn't because they thought we should have fresh air. 45 00:02:37,136 --> 00:02:40,389 They thought, "We don't wanna see you. Get out of the house." 46 00:02:40,472 --> 00:02:43,267 And so, you know, no one… "We don't wanna deal with you. 47 00:02:43,350 --> 00:02:45,394 We're not interested. Get out of the house." 48 00:02:45,477 --> 00:02:48,814 So we went out of the house and ran around and things children used to do. 49 00:02:48,898 --> 00:02:51,275 Now, I mean, people ate much less then. 50 00:02:51,358 --> 00:02:52,818 -Mmm. -That's another thing. 51 00:02:52,902 --> 00:02:55,112 And it was because people had to, like, make food. 52 00:02:55,196 --> 00:02:57,990 You know, there wasn't all this food already made. 53 00:02:58,073 --> 00:02:59,200 And, um… 54 00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:03,746 I think… Also, people didn't know that all these things were bad for you. 55 00:03:03,829 --> 00:03:08,083 I think maybe knowing that they're bad for you maybe makes them worse for you. 56 00:03:08,167 --> 00:03:11,545 But I mean, the-- my parents were, um… 57 00:03:12,046 --> 00:03:15,299 You know, they were, uh, first-generation Americans, 58 00:03:15,382 --> 00:03:17,801 and, you know, "Food, good." 59 00:03:17,885 --> 00:03:20,763 -[Martin laughs] -You know? Not, "Food, bad." 60 00:03:20,846 --> 00:03:22,765 -You know? "Meat, good." -"Good!" 61 00:03:22,848 --> 00:03:24,600 -"Butter, good." Um… -[laughing] 62 00:03:25,100 --> 00:03:27,311 Things that were considered bad for you were like candy. 63 00:03:27,394 --> 00:03:30,147 But bad for your teeth, you know? Um… 64 00:03:30,231 --> 00:03:33,400 I don't remember people talking about their health all the time. 65 00:03:33,484 --> 00:03:36,320 You know? I mean, people were worried about things like polio. 66 00:03:36,403 --> 00:03:37,863 -That was big-- -That was a big thing. 67 00:03:37,947 --> 00:03:40,950 Until the polio vaccine was invented when I was very little child. 68 00:03:41,033 --> 00:03:42,785 And that was like the greatest thing. 69 00:03:42,868 --> 00:03:46,580 When I was a child and when you were a child, which was even before… 70 00:03:46,664 --> 00:03:47,873 -Yes, that's right. -Yes? 71 00:03:47,957 --> 00:03:49,875 -All right? Okay? -Much, much before. 72 00:03:50,417 --> 00:03:52,544 -All children lived in-- -Smoke. 73 00:03:52,628 --> 00:03:54,880 -In a total fog of smoke. -Yeah, smoke. Yeah. 74 00:03:54,964 --> 00:03:57,841 -No, true. Everybody. -Okay? No one… And in my house… 75 00:03:57,925 --> 00:04:01,053 I mean, I had a mother who'd never open a window, 76 00:04:01,136 --> 00:04:02,554 [Martin laughs] 77 00:04:02,638 --> 00:04:07,184 Because she didn't want any of that outdoor air to get into the house. 78 00:04:07,268 --> 00:04:08,978 [audience and Martin laughing] 79 00:04:09,061 --> 00:04:11,855 -That's right! -And-- So that you couldn't even see. 80 00:04:11,939 --> 00:04:14,191 -[applause] -All right? In the '50s. 81 00:04:14,275 --> 00:04:18,279 And we were in cars. Okay? We weren't allowed to open the windows in the cars. 82 00:04:18,362 --> 00:04:20,906 My father puffed on his pipe. My mother smoked cigarettes. 83 00:04:20,990 --> 00:04:23,242 So we sat, when we were little… 84 00:04:23,325 --> 00:04:26,578 -Now they have all these safety measures. -They have a lot of things. 85 00:04:26,662 --> 00:04:28,372 You can buckle kids in. It's like helmets. 86 00:04:28,455 --> 00:04:30,291 Oh yeah. They dress children like astronauts. 87 00:04:30,374 --> 00:04:32,543 -Yeah! -They bolt them into the back of the car. 88 00:04:32,626 --> 00:04:34,628 [laughter] 89 00:04:36,171 --> 00:04:38,882 Well… [chuckles] When we were little children… 90 00:04:39,717 --> 00:04:42,720 -[snorts] Yes. -…there were no seat belts in cars. 91 00:04:43,220 --> 00:04:45,306 We sat… Where did we sit? In the front seat, 92 00:04:45,389 --> 00:04:47,349 on the laps of our smoking mothers. 93 00:04:47,433 --> 00:04:49,059 [laughter and applause] 94 00:04:50,060 --> 00:04:53,772 [Fran] I am addicted to cigarettes. It's an addiction. I know what an addiction is. 95 00:04:53,856 --> 00:04:55,274 Is it smart to smoke cigarettes? 96 00:04:55,357 --> 00:04:58,277 -It's idiotic! I know that. Okay? -[Martin laughs] 97 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,447 Uh-- You know, people will yell at me all the time, and I always say, 98 00:05:01,947 --> 00:05:04,116 "Smoking is bad for you. I know. I heard." 99 00:05:04,199 --> 00:05:05,659 There's certain things like, 100 00:05:05,743 --> 00:05:09,580 okay, maybe we didn't realize it was bad for you to eat a lot of steak. 101 00:05:09,663 --> 00:05:13,250 You know? I mean, I understand why people didn't realize that. 102 00:05:13,334 --> 00:05:16,545 You know, especially people deprived of meat for so many generations. 103 00:05:16,628 --> 00:05:17,963 -[chuckles] -But, you know, 104 00:05:19,798 --> 00:05:21,592 breathing smoke into your lungs, 105 00:05:22,134 --> 00:05:25,888 like, how did no one ever, like, think, "You know, probably not the best idea"? 106 00:05:25,971 --> 00:05:27,931 -But people apparently didn't. -Yeah. Really-- 107 00:05:28,015 --> 00:05:31,477 They really, I mean, made you believe that there were safe cigarettes. 108 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:32,895 -Yeah. Safe cigarettes. -Really. 109 00:05:32,978 --> 00:05:35,522 I remember my pediatrician, as a child. 110 00:05:35,606 --> 00:05:37,733 I remember going into his office. 111 00:05:37,816 --> 00:05:40,527 There was a giant ashtray on the desk of the doctor. 112 00:05:40,611 --> 00:05:42,029 And he would be smoking. 113 00:05:42,112 --> 00:05:45,324 Then after they gave you a horrible shot, the doctor would give you candy. 114 00:05:45,407 --> 00:05:46,241 Yeah. 115 00:05:46,325 --> 00:05:49,411 I would have no idea, as a six- or seven-year-old child, 116 00:05:49,495 --> 00:05:51,997 that smoking could be bad for you, or that candy was bad for you, 117 00:05:52,081 --> 00:05:55,042 'cause that's what they gave you after they gave you a shot, so-- 118 00:05:55,125 --> 00:05:56,043 Um… 119 00:05:56,126 --> 00:06:00,255 So if hadn't started smoking at 12, I would not start smoking now, obviously. 120 00:06:00,339 --> 00:06:04,134 Um, but I know what it is to be addicted to something, you know, 121 00:06:04,218 --> 00:06:10,516 and I know that no one becomes addicted to something with that as the goal. 122 00:06:11,016 --> 00:06:13,018 [upbeat '50s music playing] 123 00:06:16,647 --> 00:06:19,608 [man] And here is the aptly titled "Butterfly Machine." 124 00:06:19,691 --> 00:06:23,487 The girl is now at the chrysalis stage, but as more weight is put on underneath, 125 00:06:23,570 --> 00:06:27,533 the wings become increasingly difficult to lift, as any butterfly will tell you. 126 00:06:29,952 --> 00:06:34,331 Your bad habits can kill you. I've seen that. But your good habits won't save you. 127 00:06:34,832 --> 00:06:39,586 You could have fantastically good habits, you know, and then… I can think of… 128 00:06:39,670 --> 00:06:42,464 I'm not gonna say who it was, but I had a friend, you know, 129 00:06:42,548 --> 00:06:45,008 who was one of the few people around my age 130 00:06:45,092 --> 00:06:46,802 who never smoked, never drank, 131 00:06:46,885 --> 00:06:49,388 and was always yelling at me for doing these things. 132 00:06:49,471 --> 00:06:52,391 Her whole life, she ate, you know, broccoli and asparagus 133 00:06:52,474 --> 00:06:54,017 and drank water and ran 134 00:06:54,101 --> 00:06:55,477 and died of a brain tumor 135 00:06:55,561 --> 00:06:56,562 -in her early 50s. -Oh. 136 00:06:57,146 --> 00:07:00,816 And by the way, I mean, my mother just died, and she was almost 92. 137 00:07:00,899 --> 00:07:04,111 So, you know, this way of life, you know, didn't kill you. 138 00:07:04,194 --> 00:07:07,406 Even if I drop dead tomorrow, no one will say, "She was so young." 139 00:07:07,906 --> 00:07:09,783 -[chuckles] -I am too old to die young. 140 00:07:09,867 --> 00:07:13,912 If I die of smoking, if I die now, everyone would say, "What did you expect?" 141 00:07:13,996 --> 00:07:16,290 If-- People are already annoyed I'm still alive. 142 00:07:16,373 --> 00:07:17,958 -I know that, okay? -[laughing] 143 00:07:18,041 --> 00:07:21,962 But, you know, now we have something that I really cannot tolerate. 144 00:07:22,045 --> 00:07:23,464 -What? -Wellness. 145 00:07:23,547 --> 00:07:25,966 -Oh yes. -Okay? Wellness. 146 00:07:26,049 --> 00:07:28,719 I mean, it's in every newspaper, every magazine. 147 00:07:28,802 --> 00:07:32,681 There are, like, wellness spas and wellness this and wellness that. 148 00:07:32,764 --> 00:07:36,018 We didn't used to have wellness. And I think, "What is wellness?" 149 00:07:36,101 --> 00:07:37,769 It's like extra health. 150 00:07:38,854 --> 00:07:42,649 Wellness, to me, is a greediness. 151 00:07:42,733 --> 00:07:46,320 It's not enough for me that I'm not sick. I have to be well. 152 00:07:46,987 --> 00:07:49,198 -This is something you can buy. -[chuckles] 153 00:07:49,281 --> 00:07:52,201 Okay? This wellness, you can buy it. You have to buy it, you know. 154 00:07:52,284 --> 00:07:54,328 And there's special wellness foods, 155 00:07:54,411 --> 00:07:55,787 -you know, um… -Mm-hmm. 156 00:07:55,871 --> 00:07:59,041 …that are like, I don't know, seeds and teas and all this kind of stuff. 157 00:07:59,124 --> 00:08:03,003 Drinks, smoothies, juices. You know, all this kind of stuff. 158 00:08:03,086 --> 00:08:07,299 All the things that people seem to seek from wellness, I wouldn't want them. 159 00:08:07,799 --> 00:08:09,092 No, thank you. 160 00:08:09,176 --> 00:08:10,844 Okay? No, thank you. 161 00:08:10,928 --> 00:08:15,682 I don't want to be, um… I know meditation is part of well. Yoga. 162 00:08:15,766 --> 00:08:18,018 You know, about one third of the people in the street 163 00:08:18,101 --> 00:08:19,728 in New York City have a yoga mat. 164 00:08:19,811 --> 00:08:20,812 -[chuckles] Yeah. -Okay? 165 00:08:20,896 --> 00:08:23,106 -That alone would keep me from yoga. -[laughs] 166 00:08:23,190 --> 00:08:27,986 That alone. Carrying around, like, a little rolled-up rug… 167 00:08:28,070 --> 00:08:29,947 -Yeah, no, that's… -…is really… 168 00:08:30,030 --> 00:08:33,784 You know, New York used to be much more fashionable than that. 169 00:08:33,867 --> 00:08:36,078 I don't like to see people walking around with these rugs. 170 00:08:36,161 --> 00:08:37,579 -No, it's terrible. -It's terrible. 171 00:08:37,663 --> 00:08:40,791 I mean, the last time I had a rug, I was in kindergarten. 172 00:08:40,874 --> 00:08:42,876 -[laughs] -We had to bring one to school, 173 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,419 because we had to nap on the floor. 174 00:08:44,503 --> 00:08:47,756 This idea of, like, wellness, I think, must be a California idea. 175 00:08:47,839 --> 00:08:50,467 Um, it's just like in San Francisco, 176 00:08:50,551 --> 00:08:52,803 or, what they call, something, I mean, Silicon Valley. 177 00:08:52,886 --> 00:08:55,931 These kind of tech people are very concerned with their health, 178 00:08:56,014 --> 00:08:58,559 -but not with your life. Um… -[laughs] 179 00:08:58,642 --> 00:09:03,105 They are, um, the ones who are really rich, um… 180 00:09:03,647 --> 00:09:06,608 They're, like, making all these efforts to live forever. 181 00:09:07,234 --> 00:09:09,778 -Mmm. -And this is very important to them. Um… 182 00:09:09,861 --> 00:09:13,448 And they have, I mean, I'm sure special foods and exercise 183 00:09:13,532 --> 00:09:14,866 and all this kind of stuff, um, 184 00:09:14,950 --> 00:09:16,618 but they also think the world is ending. 185 00:09:16,702 --> 00:09:20,122 They have, like… You have to have your own air, your own water. 186 00:09:20,205 --> 00:09:24,960 I-- If there's a big disaster, I don't wanna be one of the last people alive. 187 00:09:25,043 --> 00:09:26,837 Why would I want to be? 188 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:28,880 I… I don't understand people who do. 189 00:09:28,964 --> 00:09:32,843 But when I was a child and very worried about, um, nuclear war… 190 00:09:32,926 --> 00:09:34,636 -Mmm. -…um, I was really worried. 191 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:35,554 -Yeah. -You know? 192 00:09:35,637 --> 00:09:37,681 Because I really didn't-- I really wanted to live, 193 00:09:37,764 --> 00:09:39,850 -'cause I was seven. -[laughs] 194 00:09:39,933 --> 00:09:43,312 So-- But I'm not seven, and so I don't wanna die, 195 00:09:43,395 --> 00:09:45,939 but if I did, it wouldn't be a tragedy. 196 00:09:46,023 --> 00:09:48,650 I'm not seven. And I certainly don't wanna be alive 197 00:09:48,734 --> 00:09:51,903 with the people who, like, saved up all these seeds and everything, 198 00:09:51,987 --> 00:09:54,698 because these are not people I wanna spend time with. 199 00:09:54,781 --> 00:09:57,200 If I don't wanna spend time with them now, why would I-- 200 00:09:57,284 --> 00:09:59,244 -Yeah! [laughs] -When there's other things to do 201 00:09:59,328 --> 00:10:00,662 and everything's still intact, 202 00:10:00,746 --> 00:10:02,748 why would I wanna spend time with them after? 203 00:10:02,831 --> 00:10:06,376 ♪ There was a turtle by the name of Bert ♪ 204 00:10:06,460 --> 00:10:09,713 ♪ And Bert the turtle was very alert ♪ 205 00:10:09,796 --> 00:10:12,716 ♪ When danger threatened him He never got hurt ♪ 206 00:10:12,799 --> 00:10:15,969 ♪ He knew just what to do ♪ 207 00:10:16,053 --> 00:10:16,928 ♪ He'd duck ♪ 208 00:10:17,638 --> 00:10:18,930 ♪ And cover ♪ 209 00:10:19,556 --> 00:10:21,183 Remember what to do, friends. 210 00:10:21,266 --> 00:10:25,520 Now tell me right out loud. What are you supposed to do when you see the flash? 211 00:10:25,604 --> 00:10:28,607 [children] Duck and cover. 212 00:10:29,358 --> 00:10:32,653 I don't know what children buy. What they're allowed to buy, of course. 213 00:10:32,736 --> 00:10:36,239 I mean, I bought a little boy some candy for Valentine's Day, 214 00:10:36,323 --> 00:10:38,492 and his parents acted like I gave him a gun. 215 00:10:38,575 --> 00:10:40,327 -[Martin chuckles] -Like-- [laughs] 216 00:10:40,410 --> 00:10:43,538 I said, "Is he allowed to have candy?" "Mmm, not really." 217 00:10:44,039 --> 00:10:45,916 I had already handed it to the kid, 218 00:10:45,999 --> 00:10:50,087 who was like-- couldn't believe this was happening to him, you know? 219 00:10:50,170 --> 00:10:52,964 "This is my favorite!" he said, before he even opened it. 220 00:10:53,048 --> 00:10:54,800 Um, I said, "It's so small." 221 00:10:54,883 --> 00:10:56,968 I wanted to buy the big, giant box, 222 00:10:57,052 --> 00:10:59,513 -but I thought, "They're gonna be upset." -Mmm. 223 00:10:59,596 --> 00:11:03,016 So, uh, and then the mother of this child said to me, 224 00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:05,560 "Were you allowed to have candy when you were a child?" 225 00:11:05,644 --> 00:11:08,230 -Mm-hmm. -She's obviously older than her son, 226 00:11:08,313 --> 00:11:10,107 but still vastly younger than me. 227 00:11:10,190 --> 00:11:13,985 I said, "We were." She said, "Didn't they know it was bad for you?" 228 00:11:14,695 --> 00:11:17,030 I said, "They thought it was bad for your teeth." 229 00:11:17,114 --> 00:11:18,657 -Candy was bad for your teeth. -Right. 230 00:11:18,740 --> 00:11:22,411 I said, um, "They didn't really think that all these things 231 00:11:22,494 --> 00:11:25,038 that may or may not be bad for you were that bad for you." 232 00:11:25,122 --> 00:11:28,041 I mean, they didn't really, um, 233 00:11:28,667 --> 00:11:30,794 they weren't that interested in our health. 234 00:11:30,877 --> 00:11:34,297 You know, they took you to the doctor. They told you not to eat candy. 235 00:11:34,381 --> 00:11:37,217 My father used to scream at me because I had so many cavities, 236 00:11:37,300 --> 00:11:39,094 -and it was expensive, you know? -[laughs] 237 00:11:39,177 --> 00:11:44,015 Um, but other than that, they told you, "Yes, you have to eat your string beans." 238 00:11:44,099 --> 00:11:47,436 But, I mean, it wasn't… I mean, they weren't that obsessed with it. 239 00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:50,188 Children now, as you know, are not very strictly brought up, 240 00:11:50,272 --> 00:11:54,776 um, except that they are deprived of many, many things, because it is bad for them. 241 00:11:55,402 --> 00:11:58,739 Or for the environment. Children will tell you something's bad for the environment. 242 00:11:59,239 --> 00:12:03,535 There's a… Well, she's now a woman. I mean, she now has a child. Um, 243 00:12:03,618 --> 00:12:06,204 but she was… she lived in San Francisco. 244 00:12:06,288 --> 00:12:08,123 So when she was three years old, this girl, 245 00:12:08,206 --> 00:12:10,917 -who now is probably 33 years old, um… -Mm-hmm. 246 00:12:11,001 --> 00:12:14,921 She said something to me. I was annoyed, and I said, "You're just a little girl," 247 00:12:15,422 --> 00:12:18,800 which was said to me 400 times a day when I was a child. 248 00:12:18,884 --> 00:12:22,512 And she said, "I'm a woman." She was, like, three years old. 249 00:12:22,596 --> 00:12:24,139 I said, "You're not a woman." 250 00:12:24,222 --> 00:12:26,308 -[laughs] -"You are not a woman." 251 00:12:26,391 --> 00:12:28,268 -Now, you can't say that to anyone. -No. 252 00:12:28,351 --> 00:12:30,604 If someone says, "I'm a woman," you're a woman, okay? 253 00:12:30,687 --> 00:12:34,357 You can be a three-year-old girl, a 70-year-old man, you could be a giraffe. 254 00:12:34,441 --> 00:12:35,734 You're a woman? You're a woman. 255 00:12:36,318 --> 00:12:40,155 Have you ever gone into therapy or self-help or any of that sort of thing? 256 00:12:40,238 --> 00:12:41,948 No, no. I've gone to self-help, 257 00:12:42,032 --> 00:12:43,742 -which, to me, is working. -Mm-hmm. 258 00:12:43,825 --> 00:12:47,871 But anywhere people with, uh, similar disturbances get together for help? 259 00:12:47,954 --> 00:12:50,749 Unfortunately, there are no people with similar disturbances. 260 00:12:50,832 --> 00:12:52,501 -I haven't been able to form a group. -Yeah. 261 00:12:52,584 --> 00:12:55,003 You know, since I guess my main, um… One… 262 00:12:55,086 --> 00:12:58,298 I have two main activities in life. Smoking and plotting revenge. 263 00:12:58,381 --> 00:12:59,716 [laughter] 264 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,301 -You don't really need a group. -No. 265 00:13:01,384 --> 00:13:02,761 -I can plot by myself. -Uh-huh. 266 00:13:02,844 --> 00:13:04,346 Sometimes, I use the phone. 267 00:13:04,429 --> 00:13:05,430 -[David] Yeah. -[Fran] Um… 268 00:13:05,514 --> 00:13:07,390 [David] But smoking is then, I guess, your-- 269 00:13:07,474 --> 00:13:09,226 -[Fran] It's my hobby. -[David] That's great. 270 00:13:09,309 --> 00:13:11,728 -[Fran] If not my profession. -[David laughs] 271 00:13:11,812 --> 00:13:14,856 We now live in an era where cigarettes are horrible for you. 272 00:13:14,940 --> 00:13:16,483 That's been, like, for 30 years. 273 00:13:17,067 --> 00:13:20,070 Marijuana's good for you. Now, marijuana's good for you. 274 00:13:20,654 --> 00:13:21,905 Marijuana used to be… 275 00:13:22,489 --> 00:13:26,952 When I say "used to be," I mean within the living memory of a nine-year-old! 276 00:13:27,035 --> 00:13:28,203 -[Martin laughs] -Forget me. 277 00:13:28,286 --> 00:13:34,584 It used to be a horrible thing that would lead to a life of desperate degradation. 278 00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:36,878 Now it's a wonderful thing. 279 00:13:36,962 --> 00:13:40,215 -It's curative. Yeah. Curative. -It's a wonderful thing. 280 00:13:40,298 --> 00:13:42,467 It's-- They put it in jelly beans! 281 00:13:42,551 --> 00:13:43,635 [Martin laughs] 282 00:13:43,718 --> 00:13:46,096 Like there are… Some-- People have shown me, 283 00:13:46,179 --> 00:13:47,889 "Look at this. It's like a jelly bean." 284 00:13:47,973 --> 00:13:49,975 -Or a gummy bear or whatever you call it. -Lollipop. 285 00:13:50,058 --> 00:13:51,393 -Yeah, it's a lollipop. -Yeah. 286 00:13:51,476 --> 00:13:54,938 These are things children eat, you know? Um… [clears throat] 287 00:13:55,021 --> 00:13:56,940 Now they won't let children have real lollipops, 288 00:13:57,023 --> 00:13:59,109 but the mother has a lollipop with marijuana. 289 00:13:59,192 --> 00:14:01,319 -[laughs] With marijuana! -It's like… With marijuana. 290 00:14:01,403 --> 00:14:03,905 So it's like, you know, I smoked marijuana when I was young. 291 00:14:03,989 --> 00:14:06,324 I didn't particularly… I didn't ever really like it. 292 00:14:06,408 --> 00:14:09,578 I don't like the smell of it. Now, people don't smoke it as much. 293 00:14:09,661 --> 00:14:13,290 I mean, they smoke it, but they also take these other things, candies or whatever. 294 00:14:13,373 --> 00:14:17,711 I never really-- That's not the feeling I was ever, um, seeking, 295 00:14:17,794 --> 00:14:22,132 was that feeling of kind of, that kind of light happiness. 296 00:14:22,215 --> 00:14:24,926 Okay? That's not for me. No light happiness for me. 297 00:14:25,010 --> 00:14:26,219 -Yeah! -[laughs] Um… 298 00:14:26,303 --> 00:14:28,388 But I will tell you, in case anyone's interested, 299 00:14:28,471 --> 00:14:33,143 I do have friends who are around my age or even older, um… 300 00:14:33,226 --> 00:14:38,607 who I know to have been daily marijuana smokers for 50 years. 301 00:14:39,232 --> 00:14:41,276 These are not the most acute people on the planet. 302 00:14:41,359 --> 00:14:43,904 -Mmm. [laughs] -Okay? Let me assure you 303 00:14:43,987 --> 00:14:47,240 that there is an aggregate effect, okay? 304 00:14:47,324 --> 00:14:49,534 Because I knew them maybe when they started, okay? 305 00:14:49,618 --> 00:14:53,496 So, you know, they're not, like, dangerous people, you know, 306 00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:57,083 but they're not maybe the people you would consult anymore. 307 00:14:57,167 --> 00:15:00,754 You might say, like… Like, sometimes I think, "My God, what happened to him?" 308 00:15:00,837 --> 00:15:03,256 Then I realize, "Well, he…" And I've even said to people, 309 00:15:03,340 --> 00:15:04,925 "So and so, I asked him something." 310 00:15:05,008 --> 00:15:07,969 -"He was so vague. What happened to him?" -[laughs] 311 00:15:08,053 --> 00:15:11,181 And she goes, "He's a pothead!" And I said, "I forgot." 312 00:15:11,264 --> 00:15:14,434 If I was in charge I would say, "Marijuana, people like it. It's fun." 313 00:15:14,517 --> 00:15:16,144 "Let them have it. What do I care?" 314 00:15:17,020 --> 00:15:18,980 -[man] Do we want to take five? -[Martin] Sure. 315 00:15:19,064 --> 00:15:20,357 -[man] You okay? -Yeah. 316 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,568 -[man] You wanna take a minute to, uh… -Yes. I wanna smoke. 317 00:15:29,574 --> 00:15:31,493 [Fran] Girls, when I was a little girl, 318 00:15:31,576 --> 00:15:34,746 you know, did things like play jacks and hopscotch and jump rope. 319 00:15:34,829 --> 00:15:36,331 I'm sure they don't do it anymore. 320 00:15:37,248 --> 00:15:38,708 [girl chants] Dee-Dee tagged in! 321 00:15:39,626 --> 00:15:41,127 Dee-Dee tagged in! 322 00:15:42,045 --> 00:15:43,505 [all chant] One, two, three, four. 323 00:15:43,588 --> 00:15:46,800 But it would have meant that, if women were running the world, 324 00:15:46,883 --> 00:15:50,637 that when women my age got to that age, there'd be professional jacks. 325 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:51,721 -[laughs] -It's just like… 326 00:15:51,805 --> 00:15:54,599 And if you say, like, jacks or hopscotch, 327 00:15:54,683 --> 00:15:57,602 they seem silly to men, but they're the same! 328 00:15:57,686 --> 00:15:59,646 They're games! These are games. 329 00:15:59,729 --> 00:16:02,482 A football game is a game. It's a game. 330 00:16:02,565 --> 00:16:07,904 [commentator] And Reggie Miller in an animated discussion with Spike Lee, 331 00:16:07,988 --> 00:16:11,408 who is an ardent Knick fan and has a courtside seat. 332 00:16:11,491 --> 00:16:13,410 I think Spike has him revved up. 333 00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:16,496 Spike is appealing to the official, Dan Crawford. 334 00:16:16,579 --> 00:16:19,332 I don't think that Spike realizes he's not in the game. 335 00:16:19,416 --> 00:16:20,667 [man] What about Spike Lee? 336 00:16:21,292 --> 00:16:22,961 -Spike who? -[laughs] 337 00:16:23,044 --> 00:16:24,587 -We will see you on Friday. -All right. 338 00:16:24,671 --> 00:16:26,047 [Ahmad] Good luck to you. 339 00:16:27,132 --> 00:16:28,216 [Spike Lee] You like sports? 340 00:16:28,299 --> 00:16:30,218 -I do not like sports. In-- -So let me-- 341 00:16:30,301 --> 00:16:32,470 -In fact, I have to say I hate sports. -So-- 342 00:16:32,554 --> 00:16:33,430 Let-- You hate sports? 343 00:16:33,513 --> 00:16:35,432 -Let me ask you a question. -Yes? 344 00:16:36,016 --> 00:16:37,934 Kobe or LeBron? 345 00:16:38,018 --> 00:16:39,853 [laughter] 346 00:16:39,936 --> 00:16:41,813 The only reason I know who these people are… 347 00:16:41,896 --> 00:16:42,897 [both laugh] 348 00:16:42,981 --> 00:16:45,358 …is because I have a very close friend who loves sports. 349 00:16:45,442 --> 00:16:48,111 Otherwise, I… I might not know either one. 350 00:16:48,194 --> 00:16:50,822 But I have no, uh, preference between them. 351 00:16:50,905 --> 00:16:53,116 -New York Giants, New York Jets? -No preference. 352 00:16:53,199 --> 00:16:55,994 -I have no sports preference. -Rangers, Islanders, or the Devils? 353 00:16:56,077 --> 00:16:59,205 Believe me when I tell you that I hate sports. 354 00:16:59,873 --> 00:17:02,375 So, what do you when it's Super Bowl, on Super Bowl day? 355 00:17:02,959 --> 00:17:05,086 Um, it's a very good day to go to a restaurant. 356 00:17:05,170 --> 00:17:06,421 -[laughter] -Okay? 357 00:17:06,504 --> 00:17:08,339 [Spike laughing] 358 00:17:08,923 --> 00:17:12,260 [Fran] First of all, things like theaters where the New York City Ballet performs 359 00:17:12,343 --> 00:17:14,888 or the Opera House or what used to be called 360 00:17:14,971 --> 00:17:16,806 -Philharmonic Hall, you know. -[Martin] Yeah. 361 00:17:16,890 --> 00:17:20,477 These are things that are important to the city even if you don't go. 362 00:17:21,144 --> 00:17:23,271 You know, there's this idea now that 363 00:17:24,147 --> 00:17:26,941 this should only be supported by the people who use it. 364 00:17:27,025 --> 00:17:29,903 There's no idea like this about, say, football stadiums. 365 00:17:29,986 --> 00:17:31,613 Okay, football stadiums… 366 00:17:31,696 --> 00:17:34,908 Which, let me assure you, if you hear I'm at a football stadium, 367 00:17:34,991 --> 00:17:37,160 you can imagine they're rounding people up, 368 00:17:37,243 --> 00:17:39,079 and they've put me in with a gun to my head, 369 00:17:39,162 --> 00:17:41,081 because otherwise, I'm not in a football stadium. 370 00:17:41,164 --> 00:17:46,169 Football stadiums, you know, are routinely paid for by people who live in the city, 371 00:17:46,252 --> 00:17:48,004 by which I mean these huge tax abatements 372 00:17:48,088 --> 00:17:50,381 and, "Yes, we'll give you money, because we…" 373 00:17:50,465 --> 00:17:52,675 They'll say, "Don't we wanna have a football team?" 374 00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:54,094 -Not me. -[laughs] 375 00:17:54,177 --> 00:17:57,889 I don't want a football team. Uh… I didn't wanna have one in high school. 376 00:17:57,972 --> 00:18:01,226 I don't want one now. I certainly don't wanna pay for a football team. No. 377 00:18:01,309 --> 00:18:02,519 I don't wanna pay for one. 378 00:18:02,602 --> 00:18:04,270 Why do you hate sports? 379 00:18:04,354 --> 00:18:09,025 You know, to me, this seems like, uh, a kind of appropriate thing 380 00:18:09,109 --> 00:18:11,444 for, like, a seven-year-old child, you know? 381 00:18:11,528 --> 00:18:12,403 Oh! Wait a minute! 382 00:18:12,487 --> 00:18:13,488 -All right? -[laughter] 383 00:18:13,571 --> 00:18:15,740 So… so if you're an adult, 384 00:18:15,824 --> 00:18:19,744 then you do not paint your face and wear a jersey and all that stuff? 385 00:18:19,828 --> 00:18:22,956 -The face paint. That's really attractive. -I don't do that. I don't do that! 386 00:18:23,039 --> 00:18:24,499 Here's the thing I'm always shocked. 387 00:18:24,582 --> 00:18:28,378 You see these people in the streets. They're screaming, "We won! We won!" 388 00:18:28,461 --> 00:18:31,673 And I'm always thinking, "Who's we?" They won. 389 00:18:31,756 --> 00:18:34,175 You lay on the sofa, drinking beer. Okay? 390 00:18:34,259 --> 00:18:36,136 -So-- -But that's the great thing about sports. 391 00:18:36,219 --> 00:18:38,429 You identify with a team. 392 00:18:38,513 --> 00:18:40,723 Yeah, which is a business. 393 00:18:40,807 --> 00:18:45,228 You never see people in the street going, "Yay! Coke won! Coke won! Pepsi lost!" 394 00:18:45,854 --> 00:18:48,648 How they got you to do this, I'd like to know that. 395 00:18:49,149 --> 00:18:50,150 -You hate sports! -Yes. 396 00:18:50,233 --> 00:18:54,195 But the reason sports are so central is because men are in charge. 397 00:18:54,279 --> 00:18:55,655 Okay? That is the reason. 398 00:18:55,738 --> 00:18:58,158 -So-- -Men in charge of the world. So-- 399 00:18:58,241 --> 00:19:00,368 That is correct. So because they love sports… 400 00:19:00,451 --> 00:19:02,787 Let me ask. If women were in charge of the world, 401 00:19:02,871 --> 00:19:05,206 do you think there would be professional hopscotch? 402 00:19:05,290 --> 00:19:09,127 I once said at a dinner party, when all these guys, who are all artists, 403 00:19:09,210 --> 00:19:12,547 and all very well-known artists, they were talking about baseball. 404 00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:14,299 I said, "I don't understand something." 405 00:19:14,382 --> 00:19:20,013 "Does every, uh, man alive think, when they were a kid, 406 00:19:20,096 --> 00:19:22,390 they were gonna be a professional baseball player?" 407 00:19:22,473 --> 00:19:25,268 And this guy said, "Every man I would like did." 408 00:19:26,227 --> 00:19:29,606 You come from a different era. Today, women wanna play sports, 409 00:19:29,689 --> 00:19:31,941 and women are playing all types of sports. 410 00:19:32,025 --> 00:19:33,151 -I know. -And they wanna play. 411 00:19:33,234 --> 00:19:34,611 -I know. This is one reason… -So-- 412 00:19:34,694 --> 00:19:36,362 -…I'm glad I'm not a girl now. -Why? 413 00:19:36,446 --> 00:19:39,324 Because when I was in school, girls didn't have to play football. 414 00:19:39,407 --> 00:19:42,535 Girls didn't have to play sports, and that was the upside of being a girl. 415 00:19:42,619 --> 00:19:44,871 -Okay? So now girls have to-- -But they-- It's not they-- 416 00:19:44,954 --> 00:19:46,164 They-- It's not they have to. 417 00:19:46,247 --> 00:19:48,374 -They wanna play. -Yes, but we did not. 418 00:19:48,458 --> 00:19:49,542 -[laughter] -Okay? 419 00:19:49,626 --> 00:19:52,795 -We didn't want to, and we didn't have to. -And the world has evolved. 420 00:19:52,879 --> 00:19:53,880 Yes. In that way. 421 00:19:53,963 --> 00:19:57,842 I would prefer there be more women in Congress and fewer playing football, but… 422 00:19:57,926 --> 00:20:00,053 [laughter] 423 00:20:30,333 --> 00:20:32,627 [Fran] Many things that people do, especially now, 424 00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:34,504 -on so-called vacations… -[Martin] Yeah. 425 00:20:34,587 --> 00:20:37,340 …are things they used to make people do if you were a prisoner of war. 426 00:20:38,341 --> 00:20:39,717 Like, I'm reading all the time, 427 00:20:39,801 --> 00:20:43,012 -in the Times' travel section, a vacation… -[Martin] Climbing and jumping. 428 00:20:43,096 --> 00:20:46,724 …where you can climb a mountain tied up with other people. 429 00:20:46,808 --> 00:20:48,351 -[laughs] -You're on top of the mountain. 430 00:20:48,434 --> 00:20:50,103 When you're there, you can jump off and… 431 00:20:50,186 --> 00:20:53,022 This is a vacation that costs 15 grand a person. 432 00:20:53,106 --> 00:20:56,901 And I think, this really, to me, it looks like the Bataan Death March. 433 00:20:56,985 --> 00:21:00,238 At the end of the Bataan Death March, if anyone was alive, did they say, 434 00:21:00,321 --> 00:21:03,658 "By the way, you owe me 15 grand, because that was a great experience"? 435 00:21:03,741 --> 00:21:06,244 I think, "Why do people do these things?" 436 00:21:06,327 --> 00:21:08,705 -People wanna challenge themselves. -Yeah. Oh, yeah. 437 00:21:08,788 --> 00:21:11,541 You know. This is a big thing that people say all the time. 438 00:21:11,624 --> 00:21:13,001 "I wanna challenge myself." 439 00:21:13,084 --> 00:21:14,711 These challenges are fake. 440 00:21:14,794 --> 00:21:18,965 Climbing a mountain is a fake challenge. You don't have to climb a mountain. Okay? 441 00:21:19,048 --> 00:21:22,635 There are many things that people have to do and should do that they don't do 442 00:21:22,719 --> 00:21:25,680 because they're scared to do or they're hard to do or they're bad at it. 443 00:21:25,763 --> 00:21:27,098 Those are challenges. 444 00:21:27,181 --> 00:21:30,810 A challenge is something you have to do. Not something you make up. 445 00:21:30,893 --> 00:21:33,271 You know, like, people do all these kind of, 446 00:21:33,354 --> 00:21:35,189 what used to be called "extreme things." 447 00:21:35,273 --> 00:21:38,401 Now, many people participate in them. "I wanted to challenge myself." 448 00:21:38,484 --> 00:21:42,447 I always think, "What kind of life do you have?" 449 00:21:42,947 --> 00:21:44,741 I find real life challenging enough. 450 00:21:45,241 --> 00:21:48,369 I'm telling you something, if I get to the dry cleaners 451 00:21:48,453 --> 00:21:50,621 -without having a huge fight… -[laughing] 452 00:21:50,705 --> 00:21:54,083 …you know, and even get the clothes there and get them back 453 00:21:54,167 --> 00:21:55,710 without, like, you know, yelling, 454 00:21:55,793 --> 00:21:57,045 -"I'm gonna sue you!" -Oh! 455 00:21:57,128 --> 00:22:00,965 You know? Or having someone threaten me, that's challenge enough. 456 00:22:01,049 --> 00:22:02,633 -Yeah. -I always think, "Really?" 457 00:22:02,717 --> 00:22:05,678 Real life has always been challenging enough to me. 458 00:22:05,762 --> 00:22:11,100 I do not need to seek out, um, these completely fantastical challenges. 459 00:22:11,184 --> 00:22:13,686 I have a tremendous fear of being physically hurt. 460 00:22:13,770 --> 00:22:15,646 And so… And I always have. 461 00:22:15,730 --> 00:22:18,441 So, I avoid activities 462 00:22:18,524 --> 00:22:20,818 where there's a very high chance of being physically hurt, 463 00:22:20,902 --> 00:22:23,071 which is any activity that requires a helmet. 464 00:22:23,154 --> 00:22:25,490 -[chuckling] A helmet! -Okay? 465 00:22:26,407 --> 00:22:28,576 [narrator] Well, the boys have pitched their tents, 466 00:22:28,659 --> 00:22:30,745 and they're preparing to do some fishing. 467 00:22:32,622 --> 00:22:36,125 Boating, fishing, swimming and every other kind of water sport 468 00:22:36,209 --> 00:22:37,794 are open to all campers. 469 00:22:37,877 --> 00:22:41,881 And here, at least, a wife's place need not be at home. 470 00:22:44,175 --> 00:22:48,471 [Fran] There's a place called Lake Powell. It's huge. It's an artificial lake. 471 00:22:48,554 --> 00:22:52,100 And the lake was stocked with millions of fish so that people could fish. 472 00:22:52,183 --> 00:22:55,269 Apparently, this is where many people went for an experience of nature. 473 00:22:55,353 --> 00:22:56,270 -Um… -[Martin laughs] 474 00:22:56,354 --> 00:22:59,357 [Fran] So I went there, and I was on this houseboat that this guy got. 475 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,235 In order to fish there, you have to get a fishing license. 476 00:23:02,318 --> 00:23:04,362 So you have to go to this giant store. 477 00:23:04,445 --> 00:23:07,865 In order to get the fishing license, I had to show my driver's license. 478 00:23:07,949 --> 00:23:12,495 So the woman, who looked at first to me like a normal human being, 479 00:23:12,578 --> 00:23:14,539 um, asked for my driver's license. 480 00:23:14,622 --> 00:23:17,917 At that time, New York State driver's licenses did not have photographs on them. 481 00:23:18,418 --> 00:23:22,004 It was common in the West, but we didn't have them yet on the driver's license. 482 00:23:22,088 --> 00:23:25,925 So I handed her my license. She looked at it. She looked at me, and she said, 483 00:23:26,843 --> 00:23:30,263 "What's the matter? You don't have photographs on your license in Jew York?" 484 00:23:30,346 --> 00:23:32,807 -[Martin gasps] Mmm. -I was really shocked. 485 00:23:32,890 --> 00:23:34,475 -[Martin] Mmm. -I said, "No." 486 00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:36,811 She said, "Why not?" I said, "Because we can read." 487 00:23:36,894 --> 00:23:38,646 [laughter] 488 00:23:39,313 --> 00:23:41,149 So I remember this very vividly. 489 00:23:41,232 --> 00:23:42,316 Um… [chuckles] 490 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,987 So we now have photographs, but we don't need them, 'cause we can still read. 491 00:23:47,405 --> 00:23:50,533 [commentator] The six fastest sprinters in the world are getting ready. 492 00:23:51,784 --> 00:23:53,286 Owens, America. 493 00:23:53,786 --> 00:23:55,288 Borchmeyer, Germany. 494 00:23:56,205 --> 00:23:57,915 And Metcalfe of America. 495 00:23:58,916 --> 00:24:00,918 [crowd cheering] 496 00:24:01,502 --> 00:24:02,420 Owens is ahead! 497 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,632 Strandberg and Borchmeyer, fighting. Osendarp challenges Wykoff. 498 00:24:06,716 --> 00:24:10,219 Metcalfe comes up, but Owens wins in 10.3. 499 00:24:11,846 --> 00:24:14,223 [Spike] The 1936 Olympics. 500 00:24:14,307 --> 00:24:18,227 Jesse Owens wins how many gold medals, 501 00:24:18,311 --> 00:24:21,147 and Hitler refuses to shake 502 00:24:22,732 --> 00:24:23,566 his hand. 503 00:24:23,649 --> 00:24:26,777 As far as African-Americans in this country, 504 00:24:27,945 --> 00:24:31,657 a lot of the breakthroughs we've done in this country as African-Americans 505 00:24:31,741 --> 00:24:33,242 has been through sports first. 506 00:24:33,326 --> 00:24:38,664 You go through Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Jackie Robinson, Muhammad Ali. 507 00:24:39,248 --> 00:24:42,877 The world would not be the place it is today if there wasn't a Muhammad Ali. 508 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,130 I mean, he had, his stuff, shit, 509 00:24:46,214 --> 00:24:48,591 -was way bigger than just boxing. -I agree. 510 00:24:48,674 --> 00:24:51,552 I love Muhammad Ali. I went to a Muhammad Ali fight at the Garden. 511 00:24:51,636 --> 00:24:53,179 Oh! Now you went to a fight! 512 00:24:53,262 --> 00:24:54,847 -[Fran] Yeah. -[laughter and applause] 513 00:24:54,931 --> 00:24:56,682 -But not-- -Wait, wait, wait. Which fight? 514 00:24:56,766 --> 00:24:58,476 -You went to the first Frazier-- -Yes. 515 00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:00,311 -But not-- -Wait, wait, wait, wait. 516 00:25:00,895 --> 00:25:02,897 You went to the first Ali-Frazier fight? 517 00:25:02,980 --> 00:25:04,482 -Yes. -One of the greatest fights ever? 518 00:25:04,565 --> 00:25:06,108 -Yes. -And you hate sports? 519 00:25:06,192 --> 00:25:07,985 -Yes. -Oh, get outta here! 520 00:25:08,069 --> 00:25:10,404 -No-- But I love Muhammad Ali. -The one where Frank Sinatra 521 00:25:10,488 --> 00:25:12,156 -was ringside taking pictures? -Yes! Yes. 522 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:13,074 -And you went? -Yes. 523 00:25:13,157 --> 00:25:14,158 Why'd you go? 524 00:25:14,242 --> 00:25:17,161 I went with a girl who knew Frank Sinatra. 525 00:25:17,662 --> 00:25:19,288 Knew in the fullest sense of the word. 526 00:25:19,372 --> 00:25:20,540 -So-- -He gave her the tickets. 527 00:25:20,623 --> 00:25:23,125 Was she assisting him while he was taking pictures ringside? 528 00:25:23,709 --> 00:25:25,628 -She was not assisting him then, no. -Right. 529 00:25:25,711 --> 00:25:27,713 [laughter and applause] 530 00:25:27,797 --> 00:25:31,050 But she was known to assist him. So she gave me the tickets. 531 00:25:31,133 --> 00:25:33,386 I really wanted to go. I love Muhammad Ali. So-- 532 00:25:33,469 --> 00:25:36,889 Wait. You love Muhammad Ali, but how can you just take him out of sports? 533 00:25:36,973 --> 00:25:39,350 I loved him as a political figure. I loved Muhammad Ali. 534 00:25:39,433 --> 00:25:43,479 Yes, but poli-- But his being heavyweight world champion gave him the platform-- 535 00:25:43,563 --> 00:25:46,607 That's right, but that was his problem. My interest in him… 536 00:25:46,691 --> 00:25:49,443 -That's how he got there. -But how did he get the platform? When-- 537 00:25:49,527 --> 00:25:52,530 He couldn't have. So it was lucky that he was a very good fighter. 538 00:25:52,613 --> 00:25:54,156 -However-- -Good? He was great. 539 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:55,533 I… I believe you. 540 00:25:55,616 --> 00:25:59,704 I sat there like this, and a guy behind me screamed at me, 541 00:25:59,787 --> 00:26:00,871 "Switch seats with me!" 542 00:26:00,955 --> 00:26:03,457 -"You don't deserve that seat!" -You hate sports, but went to one 543 00:26:03,541 --> 00:26:05,459 of the greatest sporting events 544 00:26:05,543 --> 00:26:06,836 -in the history of sport. -Yes. 545 00:26:06,919 --> 00:26:08,546 -And you had great seats. -Yes. 546 00:26:08,629 --> 00:26:11,007 -But also, the clothes were fantastic. -[laughter] 547 00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:13,050 -Everybody was dressed up. -Everyone was dressed. 548 00:26:13,134 --> 00:26:16,596 So it was, to me, better than any fashion show you could go to now. 549 00:26:16,679 --> 00:26:20,725 It was a very wonderful fashion and cultural event. 550 00:26:20,808 --> 00:26:22,602 Unfortunately, there was a fight in the middle. 551 00:26:22,685 --> 00:26:24,729 [laughter] 552 00:26:24,812 --> 00:26:27,356 Someone asked me once, "Why did you go to that fight?" 553 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,524 "I went for the clothes." 554 00:26:29,108 --> 00:26:32,903 There was still a big pimp culture in New York then. You know? 555 00:26:32,987 --> 00:26:35,740 There were pimps all over the streets. There were pimpmobiles. 556 00:26:35,823 --> 00:26:37,825 You could not believe the way people dressed. 557 00:26:37,908 --> 00:26:41,621 The pimps wore these big hats, and they came in with, like, 12 girls behind them. 558 00:26:41,704 --> 00:26:42,913 Now, you couldn't do that. 559 00:26:42,997 --> 00:26:44,832 I'm not suggesting it was a delightful thing, 560 00:26:44,915 --> 00:26:46,083 but it was interesting. 561 00:26:46,167 --> 00:26:49,587 But I really-- I love Muhammad Ali, you know, as a figure, 562 00:26:49,670 --> 00:26:50,880 but I hate fighting. 563 00:26:50,963 --> 00:26:53,507 I hated it. I… I mean, I can't believe it's legal. 564 00:26:53,591 --> 00:26:55,009 I know… You know, people-- 565 00:26:55,092 --> 00:26:57,470 I argue with people about this all the time. You know. 566 00:26:57,553 --> 00:27:00,264 And even an Ali fight, where there wasn't even that much punching, 567 00:27:00,348 --> 00:27:02,433 -because he was such a dancer, you know. -[Martin] Yes. 568 00:27:02,516 --> 00:27:04,477 But, um, I can't believe it's legal. 569 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,812 I cannot believe that it is legal 570 00:27:06,896 --> 00:27:10,274 to watch human beings beat each other up as a sport. 571 00:27:10,358 --> 00:27:13,069 I know that people love it. I know I'm gonna get yelled… 572 00:27:13,152 --> 00:27:16,113 But you know… you know what's illegal? Cockfighting. 573 00:27:16,197 --> 00:27:18,866 Cockfighting is two chickens fighting each other. 574 00:27:18,949 --> 00:27:20,284 -We eat chickens! -[laughing] 575 00:27:20,368 --> 00:27:23,037 Okay? At least, I eat chickens. I know some people don't. 576 00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:27,500 So we eat chickens, but they can't fight with each other, because it's too brutal. 577 00:27:27,583 --> 00:27:30,002 ["La Dolce Vita (Finale) by Nino Rota playing] 578 00:27:38,511 --> 00:27:41,138 [Fran] I refused to go to a dinner party for Leni Riefenstahl. 579 00:27:41,222 --> 00:27:42,264 -[Martin] Ah. -[Fran] Okay? 580 00:27:42,348 --> 00:27:44,767 When Leni Riefenstahl published this book called-- 581 00:27:44,850 --> 00:27:46,185 -[Martin] Nuba. -[Fran] Nu-- Nubia. 582 00:27:46,268 --> 00:27:48,062 -Nuba? Nuba. -[Martin] Nuba. 583 00:27:48,145 --> 00:27:50,606 [Fran] And a guy I knew, who's now dead, 584 00:27:50,690 --> 00:27:53,109 gave a dinner party for her and it was small. 585 00:27:53,192 --> 00:27:56,278 It was, like, 12 people, and more than 12 people wanted to go. 586 00:27:56,362 --> 00:27:57,321 And I refused to go. 587 00:27:57,405 --> 00:27:59,323 He said, "What do you mean, you're not coming?" 588 00:27:59,407 --> 00:28:02,952 I said, "I'm not going to a party for Leni Riefenstahl. Don't be ridiculous." 589 00:28:03,035 --> 00:28:06,872 He said, "You know, Fran, you have to admit, she's a great artist." 590 00:28:07,373 --> 00:28:08,624 I said, "I don't care." 591 00:28:08,708 --> 00:28:11,585 Now I can't think of the name of the movie. The movie about the Olympics. 592 00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:14,213 -[Martin] Oh, Olympia is good. -[Fran] That movie used to play 593 00:28:14,296 --> 00:28:16,298 in S&M bars, behind bars. 594 00:28:16,382 --> 00:28:17,675 It played with the sound off. 595 00:28:17,758 --> 00:28:21,512 She always had a big following in New York among a certain kind of person. 596 00:28:21,595 --> 00:28:25,349 And this guy said, "Don't you think that's a great movie?" 597 00:28:25,433 --> 00:28:27,476 "Isn't she a great filmmaker?" I said, "Yes." 598 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:28,894 I said, "To take that talent 599 00:28:28,978 --> 00:28:30,646 -and put it in the service of this…" -Mmm. 600 00:28:30,730 --> 00:28:33,816 "That is worse! It would be better if she was a horrible filmmaker."