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00:00:03,567 --> 00:00:05,734
[dramatic music playing]
2
00:00:35,867 --> 00:00:37,166
[Hubers sobbing]
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00:01:07,867 --> 00:01:10,233
[man 1] The thing inside
of me is like...
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00:01:11,567 --> 00:01:13,533
[man 2] The appetite,
it's like a wolf that's...
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00:01:15,500 --> 00:01:16,734
feeling...
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00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:18,634
the hunger.
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[sobs]
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00:03:12,100 --> 00:03:14,667
[Nameeta]
Hubers has called 911
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00:03:14,667 --> 00:03:17,100
to report
her deceased boyfriend
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00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:19,567
and that she has killed him,
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00:03:19,567 --> 00:03:22,100
but what she's also offering
the dispatcher is
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a level of detail
about how she killed him
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00:03:24,166 --> 00:03:29,066
and a distancing
from any aspect of him
that's human.
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She's referring to him
as a dead body,
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00:03:31,033 --> 00:03:34,667
she's automatically telling
the dispatcher she did this
in self-defense
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00:03:34,667 --> 00:03:36,467
and that's a little unusual.
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00:03:36,467 --> 00:03:40,066
The majority of people
would make the decision
to get help
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if somebody... was shot
accidentally.
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00:03:42,967 --> 00:03:45,533
Your first thought is not
to finish the job.
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[sobbing]
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It's very unusual
that she whimpers,
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seems distraught
for the first couple
of seconds,
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but then almost, like,
[snaps fingers]
she switches off
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and it's a completely
different person.
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She changes her demeanor
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00:04:31,934 --> 00:04:33,967
as soon as the detective
leaves the room.
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00:04:33,967 --> 00:04:37,100
That would not be typical
of someone who is...
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who just killed her boyfriend
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and who's
completely overwhelmed
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at... at having done
such a horrific thing.
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[Alexander] Psychopaths,
because of their lack
of empathy,
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00:06:04,567 --> 00:06:07,367
essentially they're
at the center
of their universe,
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00:06:07,433 --> 00:06:09,667
everyone else around is
for their pleasure
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00:06:09,667 --> 00:06:10,767
or should be eliminated
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00:06:10,767 --> 00:06:12,767
because they're
some kind of roadblock
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00:06:12,767 --> 00:06:13,867
to what they want to get.
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00:06:13,867 --> 00:06:16,467
And what we see here is
already evidence of that.
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I think she's fully aware
that she's killed somebody.
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She thinks she's smarter,
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00:06:20,767 --> 00:06:23,100
she thinks
she should get away with it,
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00:06:23,100 --> 00:06:25,066
she should not be
held accountable,
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00:06:25,133 --> 00:06:26,367
"I should be able
to walk out tonight
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00:06:26,367 --> 00:06:28,367
and be done,
isn't that right?"
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00:06:28,367 --> 00:06:30,567
And when it turns out
not to be true,
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that's when things start
to unravel.
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[detective] So--
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[detective] I know.
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[whispering]
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[sobs]
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00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:25,667
[Nameeta] It's important
to realize
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00:07:25,667 --> 00:07:27,967
that she's already asked
for a lawyer,
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00:07:28,033 --> 00:07:30,166
and yet Hubers can't seem
to stop talking.
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Her need to manage impressions
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and to push forward
her narrative
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is really what's taken over.
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00:07:36,700 --> 00:07:38,567
[Alexander] Hubers felt relief
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00:07:38,567 --> 00:07:40,066
because she had enough
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00:07:40,133 --> 00:07:42,367
and that's very consistent
with a psychopath.
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00:07:42,433 --> 00:07:46,767
Good psychopaths learn
how to mimic
genuine human emotion.
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00:07:46,767 --> 00:07:51,066
Attraction, compassion, love,
anger, resentment.
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00:07:51,133 --> 00:07:53,934
And what we're seeing here is
her attempt to do that.
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00:08:22,367 --> 00:08:25,000
She's setting up the story
now in even more details,
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saying,
"I'm remembering things."
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00:08:26,433 --> 00:08:28,667
Whether it's her arm
shut in the door,
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whether she's thrown
against some bookshelf,
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00:08:30,166 --> 00:08:33,100
whether she's smashed her head
into the TV set.
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00:08:33,100 --> 00:08:36,066
But at the scene,
the bookshelf is undisturbed,
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the things are still
in immaculate order
on the shelf,
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there's no crack
in the screen, um,
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she doesn't have any bruises,
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doesn't have any marks
on her, um...
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So what she's saying
doesn't match
the physical reality.
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[voice cracking]
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00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,266
And what's interesting
in this segment
of the interrogation is,
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she really moves away
from any physical abuse
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00:09:36,367 --> 00:09:39,433
and essentially describes
a motive for killing him.
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He was insulting her
and her family,
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how dare he?
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Odd to say,
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00:09:46,767 --> 00:09:50,000
but psychopaths are usually
very sensitive people too.
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00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,967
In many cases,
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00:09:51,967 --> 00:09:55,100
their behavior,
their demeanor is born
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00:09:55,100 --> 00:09:58,867
out of a self-esteem
which is very fragile,
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00:09:58,934 --> 00:10:02,967
which is very sensitive
to a perceived insult,
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and what happens
once the psychopath feels
insulted in any way
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is a catastrophic reaction
of rage.
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[voice trembling]
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[sobs]
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00:11:15,166 --> 00:11:17,867
She wasn't gonna give him up
to anybody else.
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00:11:17,867 --> 00:11:19,467
I mean, she shot him
right in the face,
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00:11:19,467 --> 00:11:23,367
that's a very personalized way
of killing someone.
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She could have shot him
in the chest,
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or the heart
that might be sentimental,
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but she shot him in the face.
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And I...
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She was angry
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and she was gonna
pay him back,
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and I think shooting him
in the face was...
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was deliberate, yeah.
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I don't think
it was an accident.
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[chuckling]
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[whispering]
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[sobbing]
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That line, "I wonder
if anyone will want
to marry me,"
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it's not the usual line
people have
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when they're being detained
after having shot someone.
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So from a psychological
standpoint,
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we have to take it
as a significant indicator
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of what's seriously important
to her.
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I really wanna know
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how long this has been
an obsession.
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If Ryan was saying,
"No. I'm not marrying you.
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I'm moving on
to other people,"
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he's thwarting that fantasy,
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and now that he's gone,
she's wondering,
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"Well, I wonder if there'll be
another prospect,"
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which means that the idea
of being married is
much more important
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than who she's gonna marry.
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[Hubers] Yeah.
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[detective sighs]
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[Nameeta] The narcissism
that Hubers struggles with
is really seen here
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because she doesn't have
an audience.
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It's difficult to engage
in impression management
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if nobody's paying attention
to you,
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and essentially this officer
is not paying attention
to Hubers.
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And what she does is
she doesn't tolerate it.
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She pretty rapidly asks
to have Amber brought back in,
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and Amber is
this female officer
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who somehow Hubers
has fused with
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and believes might be
her best shot
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00:15:32,934 --> 00:15:35,266
at convincing them
that this was self-defense.
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[humming]
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[continues humming]
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[singing]
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[whispers]
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[pops tongue]
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Who sings to themselves
after they've killed somebody?
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This is like
she's finally grabbed
the brass ring.
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She's almost surprised
at herself
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00:16:56,266 --> 00:16:58,100
that she was able to succeed.
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She refers to herself
in the third person.
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We all have parts
in ourselves, right?
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The part that is
wife or husband
144
00:17:04,667 --> 00:17:06,767
or father or daughter or...
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It's all
a little bit different.
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Sometimes psychopaths
don't integrate these parts
so well.
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So, in order to get
through their daily life,
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they have to split a part,
parts of themselves
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and sort of put them in a box
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and only let them out
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when the opportune time
arises,
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and I think that's
what we're seeing here.
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It's her saying to herself,
"I'm a killer."
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As time has gone on
and Hubers is sitting
in this room
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waiting to be released,
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what's likely happening is
she's playing back things
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that she has said
to the dispatcher
and to the case agent
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00:18:44,667 --> 00:18:46,767
about how things happened,
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and she's starting to realize,
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00:18:49,166 --> 00:18:50,767
"The crime scene
might not look like that.
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My body doesn't look
like that, like there was
a struggle."
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She starts to play back
things she said
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and tries to plug in
holes and gaps.
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00:19:04,467 --> 00:19:07,634
And when Hubers says,
"He isn't alive to remember,"
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00:19:08,266 --> 00:19:09,867
what she might be
telling us is,
166
00:19:09,934 --> 00:19:12,066
"He's not alive
to testify against me."
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00:19:37,367 --> 00:19:38,667
[female reporter] A woman is
behind bars tonight.
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00:19:38,667 --> 00:19:41,567
Shayna Hubers is charged
with the murder
of her boyfriend.
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00:19:41,634 --> 00:19:45,467
Highland Heights police
responded to the report
of a person shot
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00:19:45,467 --> 00:19:48,166
at 12 Meadow Lane last night
around 09:00 p.m.
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That's when they found
the victim, Ryan Poston.
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00:19:51,066 --> 00:19:53,567
The 29-year-old had been shot
and killed.
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Still, no word
on a possible motive.
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00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:01,734
[sniffing]
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00:21:10,367 --> 00:21:12,867
We can see her start to play
every card she can
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with this female
law enforcement agent.
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So, she invokes a God,
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she invokes the mother card.
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00:21:20,734 --> 00:21:23,567
She starts to pull at all
of the possible heartstrings,
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00:21:23,567 --> 00:21:26,166
in her mind thinking,
"This is happening," you know,
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"This is working,
I'm effective,"
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and as soon as the officer
leaves the room,
183
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she compliments herself on
what a phenomenal acting job
184
00:21:33,734 --> 00:21:34,667
she's just done.
185
00:21:34,667 --> 00:21:36,166
Uh, and that's...
186
00:21:36,467 --> 00:21:37,967
truly remarkable.
187
00:21:37,967 --> 00:21:39,934
Uh, truly cold-blooded.
188
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,266
[Dr. Charles] When she says,
"Love can turn to hate
real quick,"
189
00:22:22,266 --> 00:22:23,967
I believe she's being
absolutely correct
190
00:22:23,967 --> 00:22:27,066
that she could be
really loving in one moment
191
00:22:27,066 --> 00:22:30,066
and once
she finally heard "No,"
192
00:22:30,066 --> 00:22:34,467
that she becomes enraged
and hates intensely.
193
00:22:34,467 --> 00:22:36,066
We know that people
with psychopathy
194
00:22:36,066 --> 00:22:38,166
don't regulate the emotions
195
00:22:38,166 --> 00:22:39,667
in the same way
that healthy people do.
196
00:22:39,667 --> 00:22:41,467
As we mature in life,
197
00:22:41,467 --> 00:22:44,967
we gain in that ability
to modulate our emotions
198
00:22:45,033 --> 00:22:48,467
and in psychopathy
that's a feature
that doesn't really develop.
199
00:22:48,533 --> 00:22:51,734
They flip from one state
immediately to the other.
200
00:23:58,567 --> 00:24:01,767
Hubers' confusion
around her emotions
201
00:24:01,767 --> 00:24:03,266
and not knowing
202
00:24:03,266 --> 00:24:05,266
which ones to pick
out of a jar,
203
00:24:05,266 --> 00:24:06,467
may be a little window
204
00:24:06,467 --> 00:24:09,567
into the fact that she has
enough awareness
205
00:24:09,567 --> 00:24:11,767
to know that
she doesn't experience
emotions the way
206
00:24:11,767 --> 00:24:12,867
the rest of us do.
207
00:24:12,934 --> 00:24:15,266
And what she's really
telling us is that,
208
00:24:15,266 --> 00:24:17,367
she's having a hard time
figuring out
209
00:24:17,367 --> 00:24:20,166
which emotions
she's supposed to mimic.
210
00:24:21,567 --> 00:24:24,066
So, she's now developing
the story about...
211
00:24:24,066 --> 00:24:26,100
she has maybe PTSD.
212
00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:29,066
So, she's kind of
a heroic survivor
of all the abuse.
213
00:24:29,467 --> 00:24:30,667
She is acting.
214
00:24:30,734 --> 00:24:33,867
This is a performance for her.
215
00:24:33,867 --> 00:24:37,266
She doesn't really care
about the fact
that Ryan is dead,
216
00:24:37,266 --> 00:24:39,567
so there's no genuine grief,
217
00:24:39,634 --> 00:24:42,767
and she approves of herself
really highly
218
00:24:42,834 --> 00:24:44,867
and she's giving herself
a pat on the back.
219
00:24:44,934 --> 00:24:46,533
She's kind of quite proud
of herself.
220
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,667
[male reporter] On the stand,
lead investigator
Bill Birkenhauer
221
00:26:04,734 --> 00:26:06,767
painted Shayna Hubers
as a jilted girlfriend
222
00:26:06,767 --> 00:26:08,967
who could not let go.
223
00:26:09,033 --> 00:26:12,967
Birkenhauer retrieved
about 20,000 to 30,000 pages
of information
224
00:26:13,033 --> 00:26:15,467
from Shayna Hubers'
and Ryan Poston's phone
225
00:26:15,467 --> 00:26:18,667
in the last eight months
before his death.
226
00:26:18,734 --> 00:26:21,667
The data detailed an on-again,
off-again relationship
227
00:26:21,734 --> 00:26:24,000
with Hubers sending
50 messages
228
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,567
for every one
that Poston returned.
229
00:26:26,567 --> 00:26:28,100
[prosecutor] What does she say
to her friend
230
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:32,767
right after she calls
Ryan Poston an "evil person"?
231
00:26:32,834 --> 00:26:35,467
She says when she goes
to the shooting range
with Ryan tonight,
232
00:26:35,533 --> 00:26:37,467
she wants to turn around,
shoot him, kill him,
233
00:26:37,533 --> 00:26:38,934
and play it
like it's an accident.
234
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:44,367
It becomes pretty clear
at trial
235
00:26:44,433 --> 00:26:46,967
through the testimony
of multiple witnesses
236
00:26:46,967 --> 00:26:50,166
that her story,
her description of the events,
237
00:26:50,166 --> 00:26:52,967
of the quality and nature
of their relationship,
238
00:26:52,967 --> 00:26:54,967
had actually nothing to do
with reality.
239
00:26:54,967 --> 00:26:56,867
In fact, this was a situation
240
00:26:56,867 --> 00:26:59,667
where she wanted
to pursue a relationship,
241
00:26:59,734 --> 00:27:00,800
he did not.
242
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,367
And she,
like a psychopath would,
had the thought,
243
00:27:04,367 --> 00:27:07,166
"Well, if I can't have him,
nobody will.
244
00:27:07,166 --> 00:27:09,433
And how dare he not want me."
245
00:27:10,667 --> 00:27:12,166
[Nameeta] At Hubers' trial,
246
00:27:12,166 --> 00:27:16,567
what starts to emerge is
a pattern of behavior
247
00:27:16,634 --> 00:27:19,767
where Hubers wasn't respecting
Ryan's boundaries,
248
00:27:19,834 --> 00:27:23,667
Hubers was bombarding him
with text messages,
249
00:27:23,667 --> 00:27:27,233
somewhere along the lines
of 50 messages
to every one of his own.
250
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:29,867
She was engaging in behavior
251
00:27:29,934 --> 00:27:32,367
that if the genders,
I think, were reversed
252
00:27:32,367 --> 00:27:35,367
and it was a male engaging
in this behavior
with a female,
253
00:27:35,367 --> 00:27:38,066
we would be much faster
as society
254
00:27:38,133 --> 00:27:41,266
to label that as stalking,
as harassment,
255
00:27:41,333 --> 00:27:44,000
but because she is
this damsel in distress,
256
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,767
young female who looks
softspoken and she's pretty,
257
00:27:47,767 --> 00:27:50,734
nobody really labeled it
that way until we had...
258
00:27:51,667 --> 00:27:52,934
a dead person.
259
00:28:08,166 --> 00:28:10,367
[female reporter] That someone
was Audrey Bolte,
260
00:28:10,367 --> 00:28:12,233
Miss Ohio, 2012.
261
00:28:14,867 --> 00:28:17,066
When Hubers found out
262
00:28:17,066 --> 00:28:19,367
that he was gonna go out
on a date
263
00:28:19,367 --> 00:28:21,266
with a former beauty queen,
264
00:28:21,266 --> 00:28:23,967
that became the straw
that broke the camel's back.
265
00:28:24,033 --> 00:28:26,266
That was a point
she could not let happen,
266
00:28:26,333 --> 00:28:27,767
'cause once he did that,
that meant
267
00:28:27,767 --> 00:28:29,266
that their relationship
was over.
268
00:28:29,266 --> 00:28:32,000
Hubers' fragile ego
could not tolerate that,
269
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,767
and she then went into action,
270
00:28:33,767 --> 00:28:36,066
because as far
as she's concerned,
271
00:28:36,066 --> 00:28:38,567
he's an object
and he belongs to her.
272
00:28:49,266 --> 00:28:53,567
[prosecutor] Did she ever,
at times, laugh
273
00:28:53,634 --> 00:28:55,166
about certain parts
274
00:28:55,166 --> 00:28:58,367
of the incident that happened
on October 12th of 2012?
275
00:28:58,433 --> 00:28:59,133
Oh, yes.
276
00:28:59,133 --> 00:29:01,266
Which parts
did she laugh about?
277
00:29:15,367 --> 00:29:17,433
...up to the IQ of Einstein.
278
00:29:27,367 --> 00:29:28,967
[female reporter 1] A local
breaking news alert now,
279
00:29:29,033 --> 00:29:31,867
Shayna Hubers has been found
guilty of murder.
280
00:29:31,867 --> 00:29:35,467
[female reporter 2]
Convicted killer Shayna Hubers
won't be sentenced until June,
281
00:29:35,467 --> 00:29:39,667
but right now her lawyers
are trying to get her
a shorter prison sentence.
282
00:29:39,734 --> 00:29:40,767
They are asking the judge
283
00:29:40,767 --> 00:29:43,567
to declare Hubers
a domestic violence victim,
284
00:29:43,567 --> 00:29:46,567
saying she was abused
during her relationship
with Ryan Poston.
285
00:29:46,567 --> 00:29:48,066
Now, if the judge rules
in her favor,
286
00:29:48,066 --> 00:29:52,433
she could be eligible
for parole in just five
and a half years.
287
00:29:53,867 --> 00:29:56,166
[Nameeta] Now that Hubers
has been convicted,
288
00:29:56,166 --> 00:30:00,667
her legal team is trying
to get the court
289
00:30:00,734 --> 00:30:03,066
to acknowledge that she be
handled as a special victim
290
00:30:03,133 --> 00:30:04,867
or a special circumstance,
291
00:30:04,867 --> 00:30:08,166
that she was, in fact,
a victim of domestic violence
292
00:30:08,166 --> 00:30:10,767
and that this is
a battered women's
syndrome case,
293
00:30:10,767 --> 00:30:12,367
or a battered victim's case.
294
00:30:12,433 --> 00:30:14,000
[Dr. Charles] She needs
to represent herself
295
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,166
as being having been in
a long-standing relationship.
296
00:30:16,166 --> 00:30:18,000
They were stable,
they were together,
297
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,367
they're living together
298
00:30:19,367 --> 00:30:20,867
and that she is the victim
299
00:30:20,867 --> 00:30:22,967
of a history
of abuse over time.
300
00:30:23,033 --> 00:30:24,867
The challenge for her will be,
301
00:30:24,867 --> 00:30:27,166
it's going to have
to match evidence.
302
00:30:55,166 --> 00:30:56,867
When they start
looking at the facts,
303
00:30:56,867 --> 00:30:59,467
it turns out
they're not living together,
304
00:30:59,467 --> 00:31:01,000
it's not her house.
305
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,367
They're not
in a monogamous relationship.
306
00:31:04,433 --> 00:31:05,567
He's dating other people,
307
00:31:05,634 --> 00:31:07,667
she's been seeing other men,
308
00:31:07,734 --> 00:31:09,367
he's been saying,
309
00:31:09,433 --> 00:31:11,467
"It's over. Move on,"
310
00:31:11,533 --> 00:31:14,367
and she's been refusing
to accept that.
311
00:31:14,367 --> 00:31:16,467
What I think happened
in that apartment
312
00:31:16,467 --> 00:31:18,467
was a little more
than cold-blooded murder.
313
00:31:18,467 --> 00:31:21,066
It's probably
as cold-blooded an act
314
00:31:21,066 --> 00:31:24,367
as I've been associated with
in the criminal justice system
315
00:31:24,367 --> 00:31:26,533
in the 30 plus years
I've been in it.
316
00:31:45,367 --> 00:31:46,467
[female reporter]
Good evening, everyone.
317
00:31:46,467 --> 00:31:48,266
A young woman convicted
of killing
318
00:31:48,266 --> 00:31:50,166
her on-and-off-again boyfriend
319
00:31:50,233 --> 00:31:51,767
will get a new shot
at freedom.
320
00:31:51,767 --> 00:31:54,867
[male reporter 1] And it's all
because one juror
didn't pay child support
321
00:31:54,934 --> 00:31:56,667
more than two decades ago.
322
00:31:56,734 --> 00:32:00,667
[male reporter 2] Kentucky law
says you cannot serve
on a jury
323
00:32:00,734 --> 00:32:03,133
if you are a convicted felon.
324
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,233
Hubers' belief
that seven days...
325
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,000
of waiting to hear
from the Department
of Corrections
326
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,667
if her marriage
will be approved
327
00:34:48,734 --> 00:34:51,667
is somehow them
retaliating against her,
328
00:34:51,734 --> 00:34:53,867
just speaks to that sense
of entitlement
329
00:34:53,934 --> 00:34:55,567
that the rules don't apply
to her.
330
00:34:55,567 --> 00:34:58,667
Hubers is trying to get
the audience to believe
331
00:34:58,667 --> 00:35:01,567
that she has this deep love
for Unique Taylor
332
00:35:01,567 --> 00:35:03,433
who happens
to be transgendered.
333
00:35:04,667 --> 00:35:08,033
She still refers
to her partner as "He".
334
00:35:09,166 --> 00:35:12,567
Hubers is not even using
the correct pronoun
335
00:35:12,567 --> 00:35:14,767
about her partner
who she wants to marry.
336
00:35:14,767 --> 00:35:17,066
And so the fact that Hubers
continues to maintain
337
00:35:17,066 --> 00:35:18,467
that it doesn't matter to her,
338
00:35:19,266 --> 00:35:21,433
indicates to us
she really hasn't changed.
339
00:35:21,867 --> 00:35:22,834
[Hubers] I think I've--
340
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:50,166
When Hubers is asked
by the journalist
341
00:35:50,166 --> 00:35:53,266
whether she intends to testify
in this re-trial,
342
00:35:53,266 --> 00:35:55,667
what she says is,
"We'll make it a surprise."
343
00:35:55,734 --> 00:35:59,066
So she has kind of this glib,
light-hearted attitude
344
00:35:59,133 --> 00:36:02,166
about what is about to be
a murder trial,
345
00:36:02,233 --> 00:36:04,967
and she kind of handles this
like a press conference
346
00:36:05,033 --> 00:36:08,166
and like she's
celebrity status
and everyone wants to know
347
00:36:08,166 --> 00:36:11,000
and so she's gonna leave it
as a cliffhanger
for the viewers.
348
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,767
Nowhere in this interview
that Hubers has with the media
349
00:36:15,767 --> 00:36:18,567
does she show any signs
of remorse
350
00:36:18,567 --> 00:36:20,567
nor does she show
any consideration
351
00:36:20,567 --> 00:36:24,467
for how Ryan's family is going
to be re-traumatized
352
00:36:24,533 --> 00:36:25,867
and re-victimized,
353
00:36:25,867 --> 00:36:28,934
having to sit
through this trial
all over again.
354
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,767
[male reporter] A big surprise
in court today,
355
00:36:37,834 --> 00:36:39,967
as a woman accused
of murdering
her former boyfriend
356
00:36:40,033 --> 00:36:42,533
takes the stand to tell
her side of the story today.
357
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,166
Hubers' decision to testify
at her re-trial
358
00:38:06,166 --> 00:38:10,767
when she did not testify
at the merits phase
of her initial trial,
359
00:38:10,767 --> 00:38:13,133
speaks to her narcissism.
360
00:38:14,166 --> 00:38:15,467
I have a hard time believing
361
00:38:15,533 --> 00:38:17,634
her attorneys advised her
to get on the stand.
362
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,567
[Alexander] And I think
it's important to say here too
363
00:38:20,567 --> 00:38:25,467
that her history of being
abused or bullied at school,
if it's true,
364
00:38:25,467 --> 00:38:27,967
is not a pathway
towards psychopathy.
365
00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:31,166
A lot of people unfortunately
are abused
366
00:38:31,233 --> 00:38:33,166
and are the victims
of bullying.
367
00:38:33,166 --> 00:38:35,467
It doesn't turn them
into criminals.
368
00:38:35,467 --> 00:38:38,667
So, in her mind,
she thinks that
369
00:38:38,734 --> 00:38:41,367
she can blame
these individuals,
370
00:38:41,367 --> 00:38:44,867
fellow students, parents,
other people in the community
371
00:38:44,934 --> 00:38:46,166
on what she did,
372
00:38:46,166 --> 00:38:48,066
when in fact, it's all her.
373
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:28,767
There wasn't any data at all
374
00:39:28,834 --> 00:39:31,767
that said that he was
an explosive, violent,
375
00:39:31,834 --> 00:39:33,567
impulsive person,
376
00:39:33,634 --> 00:39:35,100
but there was
plenty of evidence
377
00:39:35,100 --> 00:39:38,266
that friends testified about
that she could be manipulative
378
00:39:38,266 --> 00:39:39,867
and I think even
at the gun range,
379
00:39:39,934 --> 00:39:42,967
she joked
about, like, killing him.
380
00:39:42,967 --> 00:39:46,367
So, uh... that wasn't gonna
work well for her,
381
00:39:46,367 --> 00:39:49,567
at the trial, yeah,
given her defense.
382
00:39:49,634 --> 00:39:52,967
[juror] We the jury,
find the defendant,
Shayna Hubers,
383
00:39:53,367 --> 00:39:54,533
guilty of murder.
384
00:40:10,367 --> 00:40:11,533
[gasps]
385
00:40:13,467 --> 00:40:14,867
Hubers potentially
really thought
386
00:40:14,867 --> 00:40:16,767
she might get acquitted
the second time,
387
00:40:16,767 --> 00:40:18,867
particularly if she took
the stand,
388
00:40:18,934 --> 00:40:21,100
and that detachment
and disconnect
389
00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:22,767
from how the rest
of the world sees her
390
00:40:22,767 --> 00:40:26,166
is consistent
with what we see oftentimes
in psychopathic individuals.
391
00:40:26,166 --> 00:40:28,467
There isn't a moment
where we see regret,
392
00:40:28,533 --> 00:40:30,867
where we see remorse,
where we see empathy,
393
00:40:30,867 --> 00:40:32,767
or where we see
Hubers' ability
394
00:40:32,767 --> 00:40:34,867
to think about someone
other than herself.
395
00:40:34,867 --> 00:40:38,667
And no doubt,
Hubers' decision to testify
396
00:40:38,734 --> 00:40:40,533
may have been part
of her undoing
397
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,100
and how she was
convicted again,
398
00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:44,066
but also received
a tougher sentence.
399
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,867
[snorts]
400
00:41:00,934 --> 00:41:09,567
♪
401
00:41:19,367 --> 00:41:25,433
♪
402
00:41:31,967 --> 00:41:35,233
♪
403
00:41:40,100 --> 00:41:41,734
♪
404
00:42:00,467 --> 00:42:02,667
♪