1 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:19,266 REPORTER: Prosecutors say Kimberly Lynn Cates, 2 00:00:19,266 --> 00:00:21,166 42, a nurse and mother, 3 00:00:21,233 --> 00:00:23,467 died of wounds to her head, torso, 4 00:00:23,467 --> 00:00:25,000 arms, and legs. 5 00:00:25,867 --> 00:00:27,800 Daughter, Jaimie, an 11-year-old 6 00:00:27,900 --> 00:00:30,000 sixth grader, remains in intensive care, 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:30,467 sixth grader, remains in intensive care, 8 00:00:30,533 --> 00:00:32,533 her throat cut, a leg broken. 9 00:00:32,634 --> 00:00:34,266 There are reports she managed to 10 00:00:34,266 --> 00:00:37,367 call 911 after the attack for help. 11 00:00:37,367 --> 00:00:40,166 We just kept saying to ourselves, "Why that, 12 00:00:40,233 --> 00:00:42,433 you know, seemingly unassuming home?" 13 00:00:58,533 --> 00:01:00,000 [theme music playing] 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,734 [theme music playing] 15 00:01:08,734 --> 00:01:10,900 MAN: The thing inside of me, it's like... 16 00:01:12,166 --> 00:01:14,166 the appetite -- it's like a wolf that's... 17 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,066 feeling the hunger. 18 00:01:28,066 --> 00:01:30,000 REPORTER: New Hampshire State Troopers have just arrested 19 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:30,600 REPORTER: New Hampshire State Troopers have just arrested 20 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:32,467 four individuals suspected for 21 00:01:32,467 --> 00:01:34,634 the brutal murder of Kimberly Cates. 22 00:01:34,634 --> 00:01:38,166 Her daughter, Jaimie, remains in critical condition. 23 00:01:38,166 --> 00:01:41,500 Police were allegedly tipped off from multiple witnesses 24 00:01:41,500 --> 00:01:43,166 reporting that four teenagers 25 00:01:43,166 --> 00:01:46,266 were heard bragging about the murder to friends. 26 00:01:46,266 --> 00:01:49,066 The suspects were identified as Steven Spader, 27 00:01:49,066 --> 00:01:52,734 Christopher Gribble, Quinn Glover, and William Marks. 28 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,367 All four suspects are now in custody of the New Hampshire 29 00:01:55,433 --> 00:01:57,634 State Police with charges pending. 30 00:03:00,700 --> 00:03:03,367 Gribble's reaction to investigators, 31 00:03:03,367 --> 00:03:06,500 when he's questioned about this brutal crime, 32 00:03:06,500 --> 00:03:10,900 is inconsistent with how a lot of typical teenage boys 33 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:12,367 and teenagers would react. 34 00:03:12,367 --> 00:03:15,800 He's very calm, he's very even in his tone. 35 00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:18,533 But what he also is doing is he's impression managing. 36 00:03:18,533 --> 00:03:21,700 He's trying to push a narrative on the investigators 37 00:03:21,700 --> 00:03:23,367 about how he couldn't possibly 38 00:03:23,367 --> 00:03:26,100 be someone that would do this, and that he's this upstanding 39 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:27,734 member of society. 40 00:04:20,967 --> 00:04:24,533 Individuals, when they want to control the interview 41 00:04:24,533 --> 00:04:27,467 or they want to manipulate the person that's 42 00:04:27,467 --> 00:04:30,000 interviewing them, they'll dance around the question. 43 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,367 interviewing them, they'll dance around the question. 44 00:04:30,433 --> 00:04:33,367 It is hypocritical, because just a few minutes ago, 45 00:04:33,367 --> 00:04:35,533 he said, you know, "I'm chivalrous," 46 00:04:35,634 --> 00:04:38,266 implying, like, "I would be helpful if I could." 47 00:04:38,266 --> 00:04:41,533 But here we see him later in the interview basically not 48 00:04:41,634 --> 00:04:43,533 giving up any information, 49 00:04:43,533 --> 00:04:47,467 being incredibly vague, insincere, and just all around 50 00:04:47,533 --> 00:04:49,266 not helpful. 51 00:04:49,266 --> 00:04:51,266 He's almost challenging them. 52 00:04:51,266 --> 00:04:52,900 "Prove that you have anything on me. 53 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,634 Otherwise, you know, I'm walking out of here." 54 00:05:29,634 --> 00:05:30,000 What the detective is starting to do is confront him, 55 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,066 What the detective is starting to do is confront him, 56 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:34,367 and some of that is to see if Gribble cracks. 57 00:05:34,367 --> 00:05:36,367 He doesn't show any real stress response. 58 00:05:36,433 --> 00:05:38,634 He starts to laugh almost sarcastically. 59 00:05:38,734 --> 00:05:40,533 This is also where we start to see 60 00:05:40,634 --> 00:05:42,533 more and more of those psychopathic traits 61 00:05:42,533 --> 00:05:43,867 really emerge. 62 00:05:43,867 --> 00:05:47,533 He's not expressing any stress about what they know at all. 63 00:06:37,634 --> 00:06:40,166 What we see is what we would expect to see 64 00:06:40,233 --> 00:06:42,634 with most teenagers -- he's scared, there's not a lot 65 00:06:42,734 --> 00:06:44,367 of energy, and he's somewhat defeated. 66 00:06:44,367 --> 00:06:46,634 But what he is also is cooperative. 67 00:06:46,734 --> 00:06:49,533 The minute you have a crime partner who's willing to talk, 68 00:06:49,634 --> 00:06:52,700 you've got leverage, and most significantly and obviously, 69 00:06:52,700 --> 00:06:54,367 what they now have is a witness. 70 00:07:49,367 --> 00:07:52,166 You almost hear in Marks's account of this 71 00:07:52,166 --> 00:07:53,967 that he's still in disbelief 72 00:07:53,967 --> 00:07:57,266 that his friends really didn't have the same plan in mind. 73 00:07:57,333 --> 00:07:59,266 It wasn't about robbing these two people. 74 00:07:59,266 --> 00:08:00,533 They wanted to kill. 75 00:08:00,533 --> 00:08:03,166 It was maybe indulging in and giving in on a fantasy 76 00:08:03,166 --> 00:08:05,900 and an urge that they had both had for some time. 77 00:09:00,533 --> 00:09:03,166 He is saying, "I'm not using being a sociopath as 78 00:09:03,166 --> 00:09:04,367 an excuse," 79 00:09:04,367 --> 00:09:06,734 but he does disclose that he had the bad childhood, 80 00:09:06,734 --> 00:09:09,634 which I feel is an excuse or some mitigation. 81 00:09:09,634 --> 00:09:12,367 I think that he's also just grandiose, 82 00:09:12,367 --> 00:09:15,533 and he wants to show them how smart he is. 83 00:09:15,533 --> 00:09:18,266 Look, I have insight into myself. 84 00:09:18,333 --> 00:09:19,230 Here's who I am. 85 00:09:19,230 --> 00:09:19,634 Here's who I am. 86 00:09:20,867 --> 00:09:22,467 SAHNI: What we know about Gribble 87 00:09:22,533 --> 00:09:24,634 is in 2007, he had been in trouble 88 00:09:24,634 --> 00:09:26,867 for sexually harassing and inappropriately 89 00:09:26,867 --> 00:09:28,066 touching someone. 90 00:09:28,066 --> 00:09:31,367 And in the process, his family took him to see a therapist. 91 00:09:31,367 --> 00:09:34,634 One of the things that emerged was that he was off the scales 92 00:09:34,700 --> 00:09:38,166 high and elevated in the domain that we think of as 93 00:09:38,166 --> 00:09:39,867 sociopathy or psychopathy. 94 00:09:39,867 --> 00:09:43,066 Oftentimes in media, we hear interchangeably 95 00:09:43,100 --> 00:09:44,967 the term psychopath, the term sociopath. 96 00:09:44,967 --> 00:09:46,967 And it's important to realize that for us as 97 00:09:46,967 --> 00:09:49,230 forensic experts, we talk about it as psychopathy, 98 00:09:49,230 --> 00:09:50,266 forensic experts, we talk about it as psychopathy, 99 00:09:50,266 --> 00:09:52,066 but they are the same terms. 100 00:10:54,166 --> 00:10:55,266 DET 2: Yeah. 101 00:11:08,867 --> 00:11:10,066 GRIBBLE: Umm... 102 00:11:19,533 --> 00:11:23,634 FOX: Gribble is almost, uh, minimizing his culpability. 103 00:11:23,634 --> 00:11:25,367 He's saying, "I'm not like that. 104 00:11:25,367 --> 00:11:26,467 "I'm a better guy. 105 00:11:26,533 --> 00:11:28,734 I just kill, and I just get it over with." 106 00:11:28,734 --> 00:11:32,367 And it almost sounds like he's trying to juxtapose himself 107 00:11:32,433 --> 00:11:33,734 with a way worse person, 108 00:11:33,734 --> 00:11:36,467 belittling the fact that this was a gruesome, 109 00:11:36,533 --> 00:11:38,066 horrific murder. 110 00:13:13,467 --> 00:13:15,734 He's reliving it almost like somebody would be 111 00:13:15,734 --> 00:13:17,533 feeling joy when they're retelling 112 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:18,867 about a family vacation. 113 00:13:18,867 --> 00:13:22,100 He clearly enjoyed this, despite the butchery 114 00:13:22,100 --> 00:13:25,734 and just how sadistic and inhumane this was, 115 00:13:25,734 --> 00:13:27,367 and yet he's enjoying it. 116 00:13:27,367 --> 00:13:30,433 And it's clear, as he's telling investigators, 117 00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:32,867 I imagine if we could watch him as he's telling it, 118 00:13:32,867 --> 00:13:34,000 he'd be smiling. 119 00:14:02,367 --> 00:14:05,533 SAHNI: The fact that Gribble's first thought is to go back to 120 00:14:05,533 --> 00:14:05,850 the fantasy of a horror movie 121 00:14:05,850 --> 00:14:07,734 the fantasy of a horror movie 122 00:14:07,734 --> 00:14:09,900 really speaks to the fact that these guys do 123 00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:11,266 not live in reality. 124 00:14:11,266 --> 00:14:16,367 They have really fused what is play-acting and made for TV 125 00:14:16,367 --> 00:14:20,100 and movies and violence that is contrived for entertainment 126 00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:23,066 purposes to that being their script. 127 00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:25,634 Their way of navigating the world is this script 128 00:14:25,634 --> 00:14:26,967 that they have crafted. 129 00:15:19,166 --> 00:15:22,867 These teenagers can't wait to get home 130 00:15:22,867 --> 00:15:24,867 and see whether there's any buzz. 131 00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:27,000 They follow the news closely, they start talking to their 132 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,867 friends about what they did, and that's where we really start to 133 00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:33,433 see the ego and the self-focus that this was a thrill kill. 134 00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:35,850 What is important in this explanation he gives 135 00:15:35,850 --> 00:15:36,166 What is important in this explanation he gives 136 00:15:36,166 --> 00:15:38,000 the detective is while on the surface, 137 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,533 it sounds like there's a little empathy for this 138 00:15:40,533 --> 00:15:44,000 child victim, he then very skillfully and sadly 139 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,900 turns this all back to himself. 140 00:15:45,900 --> 00:15:47,533 And that's where we see the narcissism. 141 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,867 It's now about his own traumatic experiences, 142 00:15:49,867 --> 00:15:51,967 his life as he sees it. 143 00:16:13,734 --> 00:16:17,100 TUSSEY: Individuals with psychopathic traits do seek 144 00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:19,734 stimulation, and they also may get an adrenaline 145 00:16:19,734 --> 00:16:22,734 rush from hurting other people, or, you know, 146 00:16:22,734 --> 00:16:27,634 they get a thrill and a rush out of seeking opportunities 147 00:16:27,634 --> 00:16:29,100 that benefit them. 148 00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:31,166 Had Gribble not gotten caught, 149 00:16:31,233 --> 00:16:33,867 there are so many red flags that this would be 150 00:16:33,867 --> 00:16:35,850 a repeat offense, that he could engage 151 00:16:35,850 --> 00:16:36,533 a repeat offense, that he could engage 152 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,333 in this type of behavior again. 153 00:17:26,367 --> 00:17:27,634 SAVOY: Um... 154 00:18:00,166 --> 00:18:01,967 Marks and Glover were attracted to Spader. 155 00:18:01,967 --> 00:18:03,734 They weren't bothered by the idea of doing 156 00:18:03,734 --> 00:18:04,800 a home invasion. 157 00:18:04,967 --> 00:18:06,634 They weren't concerned about their future, and they had 158 00:18:06,734 --> 00:18:10,166 a more antisocial outlook in life -- where Gribble fits into 159 00:18:10,166 --> 00:18:13,967 this is that Gribble and Spader went back to childhood. 160 00:18:13,967 --> 00:18:16,734 Their families went to church together, but somehow, that 161 00:18:16,734 --> 00:18:20,734 disturbed thinking of homicidal urges was the nexus that may 162 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:22,734 have bonded Spader with Gribble. 163 00:18:22,734 --> 00:18:26,266 TUSSEY: Christopher Gribble and Steven Spader seemed to be 164 00:18:26,333 --> 00:18:27,500 like-minded in some ways, 165 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:28,434 very interested in looking out for number one, 166 00:18:28,434 --> 00:18:30,266 very interested in looking out for number one, 167 00:18:30,266 --> 00:18:34,066 very interested in achieving whatever they want to achieve, 168 00:18:34,066 --> 00:18:35,367 however they need to do it, 169 00:18:35,433 --> 00:18:37,533 robbing or hurting people if they need to. 170 00:18:37,533 --> 00:18:38,734 So it may be, you know, 171 00:18:38,734 --> 00:18:41,367 in a sense that individuals with similar psychopathic 172 00:18:41,367 --> 00:18:44,367 traits sort of gravitate toward one another. 173 00:19:13,266 --> 00:19:16,500 SAHNI: Once we escalate to trial, and we move forward, 174 00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:18,734 Gribble makes claims that he's insane. 175 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,500 What we see is this complete failure to take responsibility 176 00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:23,634 and a lack of willingness to take responsibility 177 00:19:23,734 --> 00:19:25,266 for his crime. 178 00:19:25,266 --> 00:19:28,434 GRIBBLE: I wanted to get out and have a real social life. 179 00:19:28,434 --> 00:19:29,867 GRIBBLE: I wanted to get out and have a real social life. 180 00:19:29,867 --> 00:19:31,500 I wanted to torture my mom to death. 181 00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:34,066 I'd get to the point at night where I just really wanted to 182 00:19:34,066 --> 00:19:35,166 sneak in my dad's bedroom, 183 00:19:35,166 --> 00:19:36,734 pull the gun out, and shoot myself in the head, 184 00:19:36,734 --> 00:19:38,900 because I just wanted it to end. 185 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,066 MAN: You actually told Dr. Drukteinis about a month ago 186 00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:45,533 that the people in the jail have no idea how dangerous you are. 187 00:19:45,533 --> 00:19:46,500 No, they don't. 188 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:48,734 I smile, because it's funny that all 189 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,800 the people in there have no idea who they're messing with. 190 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:55,166 TUSSEY: So he's talking about wanting the social life 191 00:19:55,166 --> 00:19:56,467 that he was deprived of, 192 00:19:56,467 --> 00:19:58,434 but it's another indication of trying to 193 00:19:58,434 --> 00:19:59,900 but it's another indication of trying to 194 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,166 reject responsibility, like this wasn't all me. 195 00:20:03,166 --> 00:20:05,266 Look, I'm a product of my environment. 196 00:20:05,266 --> 00:20:07,166 I'm a product of my upbringing. 197 00:20:07,233 --> 00:20:09,066 You know, I think this is performative. 198 00:20:09,066 --> 00:20:11,467 I think he's enjoying being on the stage, 199 00:20:11,467 --> 00:20:13,233 so to speak, of the courtroom. 200 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,367 WOMAN: I could go on for days and days 201 00:20:32,367 --> 00:20:35,634 and days about the depth of your depravity. 202 00:20:35,634 --> 00:20:39,367 But it is sufficient to say that you belong in a cage.