1
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,266
The thing inside of me,
it's like...

2
00:01:10,767 --> 00:01:14,767
the appetite --
it's like a wolf that's...

3
00:01:14,867 --> 00:01:16,667
feeling...

4
00:01:16,667 --> 00:01:17,867
the hunger.

5
00:01:26,667 --> 00:01:29,100
SAHNI: In this series,
we've seen individuals

6
00:01:29,166 --> 00:01:30,000
that have engaged
in terrifying acts,

7
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,367
that have engaged
in terrifying acts,

8
00:01:31,367 --> 00:01:36,100
violent acts of horror --
murders, kidnapping, rape.

9
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,867
We've seen that
psychopathic individuals

10
00:01:40,967 --> 00:01:42,867
look sometimes
like you and me.

11
00:01:42,867 --> 00:01:43,967
They walk among us.

12
00:01:43,967 --> 00:01:45,867
They're our neighbors,
they're our co-workers,

13
00:01:45,867 --> 00:01:48,367
they might even be our spouses
or family members.

14
00:01:48,367 --> 00:01:52,000
Research has shown us
that there are also some

15
00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:54,767
telltale signs that give us
the indication

16
00:01:54,867 --> 00:01:57,367
that somebody may have
psychopathic behavior.

17
00:02:17,367 --> 00:02:21,300
The reason why we need
to recognize the indicators

18
00:02:21,367 --> 00:02:23,667
of psychopathy,
those signs of psychopath,

19
00:02:23,767 --> 00:02:27,100
are because they are
extensions of

20
00:02:27,166 --> 00:02:30,000
traits that are
in all of us as human beings,

21
00:02:30,066 --> 00:02:34,166
and that when some of
those traits become

22
00:02:34,266 --> 00:02:38,266
too prominent
or are atrophied,

23
00:02:38,367 --> 00:02:39,967
there's not enough of it,

24
00:02:39,967 --> 00:02:42,567
that's when people
get into trouble.

25
00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,467
It's important to recognize
them so that when we do,

26
00:02:46,467 --> 00:02:47,800
we know when we might be
in danger.

27
00:02:49,266 --> 00:02:51,600
SAHNI: We'll talk about some
common markers that we,

28
00:02:51,667 --> 00:02:54,867
as experts, look for to help
identify an individual

29
00:02:54,867 --> 00:02:58,700
that we think is exhibiting
psychopathy and that we use to

30
00:02:58,767 --> 00:03:00,000
assess their risk level
for future violence.

31
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,400
assess their risk level
for future violence.

32
00:03:07,567 --> 00:03:09,467
Confidence is
a positive thing.

33
00:03:09,567 --> 00:03:12,166
Confidence can help us
succeed in our interpersonal

34
00:03:12,166 --> 00:03:15,467
relationships, at our jobs
and our school.

35
00:03:15,467 --> 00:03:19,166
But whenever it begins to
escalate to a level of

36
00:03:19,266 --> 00:03:22,767
grandiosity and narcissism
where we think that we make

37
00:03:22,867 --> 00:03:26,266
the rules, that's when
it becomes pathological.

38
00:03:28,367 --> 00:03:30,000
Somebody that has an intense
level of self focus,

39
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,300
Somebody that has an intense
level of self focus,

40
00:03:31,367 --> 00:03:35,767
an over-inflated sense of self
importance, and a belief that

41
00:03:35,767 --> 00:03:38,567
they're somehow better
than the rest of us,

42
00:03:38,567 --> 00:03:40,567
it allows them to be in
a power differential

43
00:03:40,567 --> 00:03:43,000
position where they're one up,
and we're one down.

44
00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,567
Richard Ramirez walked
into the courtroom as if he was

45
00:03:59,667 --> 00:04:00,000
a rock star

46
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:00,934
a rock star

47
00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,567
entering into a concert venue
rather than somebody who's

48
00:04:03,667 --> 00:04:06,367
facing trial for multiple
murder charges.

49
00:04:06,367 --> 00:04:09,166
He seemed more interested
in the fame

50
00:04:09,266 --> 00:04:12,467
and the affection that
he received from his followers.

51
00:04:14,967 --> 00:04:17,567
That is his way of showing
his grandiosity,

52
00:04:17,667 --> 00:04:20,900
that this whole court system
was just beneath him.

53
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,266
He was arrogant,
he felt that he was

54
00:04:24,266 --> 00:04:25,400
better than everyone else.

55
00:04:25,467 --> 00:04:28,867
While Richard Ramirez
is one notorious example

56
00:04:28,867 --> 00:04:30,000
of grandiosity,

57
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,066
of grandiosity,

58
00:04:30,066 --> 00:04:33,600
we also see that same behavior
in Israel Keyes.

59
00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:28,367
SAHNI: For most of us,
the experience of interacting

60
00:05:28,467 --> 00:05:30,000
with law enforcement,
if you just think about

61
00:05:30,100 --> 00:05:31,767
having been pulled over
with a speeding ticket,

62
00:05:31,867 --> 00:05:33,567
people become nervous,

63
00:05:33,667 --> 00:05:36,567
they start babbling
and talking quickly.

64
00:05:36,567 --> 00:05:39,500
They show outward signs of
stress and discomfort.

65
00:05:39,567 --> 00:05:41,367
What we see here in Keyes,

66
00:05:41,367 --> 00:05:43,767
oozes the concept
of grandiosity.

67
00:05:43,767 --> 00:05:47,200
He is self-focused,
he is entitled,

68
00:05:47,266 --> 00:05:51,166
he is arrogant, and he is not
at all concerned about

69
00:05:51,266 --> 00:05:53,967
the interaction and how he comes
across with others.

70
00:06:26,667 --> 00:06:27,867
[Keyes laughs]

71
00:06:54,867 --> 00:06:58,767
TUSSEY: These victims were
pawns in Israel Keyes's game,

72
00:06:58,867 --> 00:07:00,000
and whenever
they foiled his plan,

73
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:00,667
and whenever
they foiled his plan,

74
00:07:00,667 --> 00:07:04,200
he got angry and tried to take
back control of the situation,

75
00:07:04,266 --> 00:07:06,266
and the way
he callously laughs

76
00:07:06,367 --> 00:07:10,066
about it in retrospect as he's
discussing it, in the same way

77
00:07:10,066 --> 00:07:14,266
that you or I might discuss
going to the store to buy milk,

78
00:07:14,266 --> 00:07:16,266
he knows what's right
and what's wrong,

79
00:07:16,367 --> 00:07:17,900
but he doesn't care.

80
00:07:44,100 --> 00:07:45,266
[laughs]

81
00:07:50,467 --> 00:07:52,700
MORGAN: The comment,
"Everything is free if

82
00:07:52,767 --> 00:07:56,066
you take it,"
is really interesting.

83
00:07:56,066 --> 00:07:58,000
Rules apply to other people.

84
00:07:58,066 --> 00:08:00,000
He's expressing
the narcissistic view of

85
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:00,567
He's expressing
the narcissistic view of

86
00:08:00,667 --> 00:08:02,266
the world that
he's unconstrained,

87
00:08:02,367 --> 00:08:04,367
and the world is --
things are there for him,

88
00:08:04,467 --> 00:08:05,867
and he deserves them.

89
00:08:05,967 --> 00:08:10,166
They're owed to him,
because he's so great.

90
00:08:10,266 --> 00:08:13,000
SAHNI: Many people have a desire
to have nice, material items,

91
00:08:13,100 --> 00:08:15,900
nice cars, nice clothes,
nice homes.

92
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,600
But most individuals in
society don't take

93
00:08:19,667 --> 00:08:22,000
from other people to gain
those accomplishments.

94
00:08:22,100 --> 00:08:25,700
A psychopathic individual
uses other people to get

95
00:08:25,767 --> 00:08:28,767
ahead, and they victimize
people all along the way.

96
00:08:28,867 --> 00:08:30,000
And for Aeman Presley,
it was about fame.

97
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,400
And for Aeman Presley,
it was about fame.

98
00:08:52,767 --> 00:08:54,400
SAHNI: There are people
every single day

99
00:08:54,467 --> 00:08:56,600
whose dreams are failed.

100
00:08:56,667 --> 00:08:59,667
For somebody
who experiences grandiosity,

101
00:08:59,767 --> 00:09:00,000
being able to stay
in a status position is

102
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,667
being able to stay
in a status position is

103
00:09:02,767 --> 00:09:05,066
a critical part of what
continues to feed it.

104
00:09:05,066 --> 00:09:09,100
And so for Aeman Presley,
having a failed acting

105
00:09:09,166 --> 00:09:10,667
career doesn't really

106
00:09:10,767 --> 00:09:13,000
do anything to help
bolster that grandiosity,

107
00:09:13,100 --> 00:09:14,567
but killing people does.

108
00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,100
He's not getting the attention
and recognition that

109
00:09:37,166 --> 00:09:39,166
he thinks he should have
by being an actor.

110
00:09:39,166 --> 00:09:43,000
So he's finding another way
to make his mark on the world.

111
00:09:43,066 --> 00:09:46,166
If he can't get adoration,
he will settle for fear.

112
00:09:57,467 --> 00:09:58,533
DETECTIVE: Mm-hmm.

113
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,066
SAHNI: When we think of
a narcissistic individual,

114
00:10:25,066 --> 00:10:26,700
and we think about
their grandiosity,

115
00:10:26,767 --> 00:10:28,266
it's all about themselves.

116
00:10:28,266 --> 00:10:30,000
But in so many of
our episodes and crimes,

117
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,667
But in so many of
our episodes and crimes,

118
00:10:31,767 --> 00:10:35,567
the high that that individual
is after is 100 percent

119
00:10:35,567 --> 00:10:38,567
about the harm
another person experiences.

120
00:10:38,667 --> 00:10:40,700
It isn't incidental
or a byproduct.

121
00:10:40,767 --> 00:10:44,400
It's actually the focus
of how they achieve pleasure.

122
00:10:44,467 --> 00:10:47,667
A sadist is somebody
who enjoys seeing

123
00:10:47,767 --> 00:10:50,800
the pain and suffering
in another individual.

124
00:10:50,867 --> 00:10:54,166
It's a common trait that
we see in psychopathy.

125
00:10:54,266 --> 00:10:55,567
In a way,
there is no such

126
00:10:55,567 --> 00:10:59,467
thing as collateral damage for
a sadist, because the damage is

127
00:10:59,467 --> 00:11:00,000
the entire goal of
their behavior.

128
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,967
the entire goal of
their behavior.

129
00:11:22,967 --> 00:11:25,200
MORGAN: In psych, we often
think, it's like that old adage,

130
00:11:25,266 --> 00:11:27,000
"I want you to suffer
like I do."

131
00:11:27,066 --> 00:11:28,800
Many psychopaths,

132
00:11:28,867 --> 00:11:31,400
they enjoy the control
over the person,

133
00:11:31,467 --> 00:11:35,800
and they actually enjoy
that person's fear,

134
00:11:35,867 --> 00:11:39,200
their terror, their emotions,
and their suffering.

135
00:11:47,467 --> 00:11:50,400
When we think about what has
gone on over the years in

136
00:11:50,467 --> 00:11:50,596
social media and the kind of
bullying and harassment

137
00:11:50,596 --> 00:11:54,100
social media and the kind of
bullying and harassment

138
00:11:54,166 --> 00:11:56,567
and trolling behavior,

139
00:11:56,667 --> 00:11:59,367
most of us, the line
that pulls us back is

140
00:11:59,367 --> 00:12:01,767
we realize we don't want to
hurt another human being.

141
00:12:01,767 --> 00:12:03,000
The difference is a sadistic

142
00:12:03,100 --> 00:12:05,600
offender doesn't mind
creating victims.

143
00:12:08,667 --> 00:12:11,166
I have many --
what I call them projects.

144
00:12:11,166 --> 00:12:12,967
They were different
people in the town

145
00:12:12,967 --> 00:12:14,567
that I followed, watched.

146
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,200
Tying somebody up
is very personal.

147
00:12:34,266 --> 00:12:36,600
It can give an individual
like Dennis Rader

148
00:12:36,667 --> 00:12:39,166
the ultimate power
over their victim.

149
00:12:39,266 --> 00:12:44,100
He derives joy from watching
another individual suffer.

150
00:12:44,166 --> 00:12:47,467
The same sadistic tendency
and drive that we see in BTK,

151
00:12:47,467 --> 00:12:50,596
we also see in criminals
like Gary Sampson.

152
00:12:50,596 --> 00:12:51,166
we also see in criminals
like Gary Sampson.

153
00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:09,000
Sampson victimized
complete strangers,

154
00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:11,367
some of whom were even
trying to help him.

155
00:13:11,467 --> 00:13:15,667
This exemplifies
his sadistic tendencies

156
00:13:15,667 --> 00:13:17,767
to use people as objects.

157
00:13:17,867 --> 00:13:20,596
I mean, he didn't even care
about their names.

158
00:13:20,596 --> 00:13:20,667
I mean, he didn't even care
about their names.

159
00:13:20,667 --> 00:13:23,400
They're basically
a means to an end for him.

160
00:14:04,867 --> 00:14:10,266
Sampson's describing
a level of force and violence

161
00:14:10,266 --> 00:14:12,400
that is so excessive
to what he needed to do

162
00:14:12,467 --> 00:14:17,200
to render the victim helpless
and to gain compliance

163
00:14:17,266 --> 00:14:19,367
that you can only think
he must have been

164
00:14:19,467 --> 00:14:20,596
enjoying this and getting
a high off of it.

165
00:14:20,596 --> 00:14:21,900
enjoying this and getting
a high off of it.

166
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,367
It gives him a sense
of power,

167
00:14:23,367 --> 00:14:25,567
and it drove that urge
to do it again.

168
00:15:11,300 --> 00:15:14,400
He was finding ways
to prolong the deaths,

169
00:15:14,467 --> 00:15:16,867
trying to find different ways
to do it in order

170
00:15:16,967 --> 00:15:18,867
to satisfy that urge.

171
00:15:18,967 --> 00:15:20,596
He wanted to torture
this person.

172
00:15:20,596 --> 00:15:21,100
He wanted to torture
this person.

173
00:15:21,166 --> 00:15:23,400
He was not trying
to do it quickly.

174
00:15:23,467 --> 00:15:27,000
He was trying to inflict
as much pain as possible,

175
00:15:27,066 --> 00:15:28,467
and that is sadism.

176
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,200
Sadists might modify
their behavior in order to

177
00:15:48,266 --> 00:15:50,596
keep chasing that high
and to keep fulfilling

178
00:15:50,596 --> 00:15:51,000
keep chasing that high
and to keep fulfilling

179
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:53,467
that need to watch someone
else suffer.

180
00:15:53,567 --> 00:15:55,467
And that's also true
for individuals who

181
00:15:55,567 --> 00:15:58,700
engage in sexual sadism,
like Michael Ross.

182
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:02,967
[Ross laughing]

183
00:16:06,467 --> 00:16:07,700
[laughs]

184
00:17:20,467 --> 00:17:20,596
SAHNI: Ross does a really good
job of articulating --

185
00:17:20,596 --> 00:17:23,367
SAHNI: Ross does a really good
job of articulating --

186
00:17:23,367 --> 00:17:25,166
it was the power he was after.

187
00:17:25,266 --> 00:17:29,100
And it was about that urge to
control another human being --

188
00:17:29,166 --> 00:17:32,800
evoking fear, evoking fight,
evoking humiliation,

189
00:17:32,867 --> 00:17:34,867
evoking pain and torture.

190
00:17:34,867 --> 00:17:37,200
That is the high
that he craved.

191
00:17:37,266 --> 00:17:40,367
And once he got a taste of it,
he needed to keep it going.

192
00:18:07,066 --> 00:18:10,300
The importance of
the strangulation is key here.

193
00:18:10,367 --> 00:18:13,567
For Ross,
it allows him to feel

194
00:18:13,567 --> 00:18:16,200
the individual's life
being drained from them.

195
00:18:16,266 --> 00:18:18,500
It's an intimate
connection that

196
00:18:18,567 --> 00:18:20,596
gives him
a sexual fulfillment.

197
00:18:20,596 --> 00:18:20,967
gives him
a sexual fulfillment.

198
00:18:20,967 --> 00:18:23,266
It's the epitome
of sexual sadism.

199
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,567
SAHNI: What's interesting about
Ross is that while the crimes

200
00:18:38,667 --> 00:18:41,000
are so sadistic
and so violent,

201
00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:43,100
he blended into
everyday society.

202
00:18:43,166 --> 00:18:46,767
He graduated from
a very well-respected school.

203
00:18:46,767 --> 00:18:49,266
Psychopathic individuals,
they're oftentimes people

204
00:18:49,266 --> 00:18:50,596
publicly who we might walk
right past.

205
00:18:50,596 --> 00:18:52,266
publicly who we might walk
right past.

206
00:18:52,266 --> 00:18:55,200
The risk is right in front of
you, and you don't see it.

207
00:18:55,266 --> 00:18:57,300
MORGAN: They're good
at disarming people,

208
00:18:57,367 --> 00:18:59,166
because they seem nice.

209
00:18:59,266 --> 00:19:01,467
There's another trait
in psychopathy.

210
00:19:01,567 --> 00:19:03,967
When we talk
about superficial charm,

211
00:19:03,967 --> 00:19:07,400
it's a behavioral strategy on
the part of a psychopath to get

212
00:19:07,467 --> 00:19:09,867
what they want -- everybody
likes a little flattery,

213
00:19:09,967 --> 00:19:13,166
and they don't see
the wolf coming.

214
00:19:13,266 --> 00:19:15,100
MAN: Please state your full name
for the record.

215
00:19:15,166 --> 00:19:17,667
[indistinct]
It's Theodore Bundy.

216
00:19:17,667 --> 00:19:19,300
Theodore Robert Bundy.

217
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,367
I have got to keep
myself together.

218
00:19:24,467 --> 00:19:25,700
I have got to stay calm.

219
00:19:25,734 --> 00:19:28,200
I've got to keep my presence
of mind, because as long as I

220
00:19:28,266 --> 00:19:30,467
do that,
I'm gonna beat these people.

221
00:19:36,867 --> 00:19:40,767
DERIGHT: Charm can be anything
from smiling to someone

222
00:19:40,867 --> 00:19:43,467
to building them up and giving
them compliments.

223
00:19:43,567 --> 00:19:48,000
We all use charm to try to get
something that we want or in

224
00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:52,452
order to make a situation
happen -- in a psychopath,

225
00:19:52,452 --> 00:19:52,467
order to make a situation
happen -- in a psychopath,

226
00:19:52,467 --> 00:19:54,467
it's going to make
someone disarmed.

227
00:20:03,767 --> 00:20:05,500
Ted Bundy is perhaps one of

228
00:20:05,567 --> 00:20:09,467
the most notorious examples of
superficial charm and glibness.

229
00:20:09,567 --> 00:20:12,767
His smile, his wit,
his demeanor

230
00:20:12,834 --> 00:20:16,266
helped him meet
and become close

231
00:20:16,367 --> 00:20:19,000
with his victims so that
he was ultimately able to

232
00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:20,667
murder them.

233
00:20:20,734 --> 00:20:22,452
Using charm allows you to be
a wolf in sheep's clothing

234
00:20:22,452 --> 00:20:24,100
Using charm allows you to be
a wolf in sheep's clothing

235
00:20:24,166 --> 00:20:28,166
and Ted Bundy is not alone in
using charm to lure victims.

236
00:20:28,166 --> 00:20:31,000
One of the examples of
superficial charm

237
00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:33,834
is in the case of
Anthony Allen Shore.

238
00:21:22,834 --> 00:21:25,367
He's studying the things that
might put her at ease

239
00:21:25,367 --> 00:21:29,667
or might make her in a position
to do what he wants to.

240
00:21:29,767 --> 00:21:33,066
He's literally
and figuratively learning how to

241
00:21:33,066 --> 00:21:34,667
speak her language in order

242
00:21:34,734 --> 00:21:36,367
to get closer to her.

243
00:21:36,467 --> 00:21:39,467
MORGAN: For psychopaths,
charm is a deadly weapon.

244
00:21:39,467 --> 00:21:41,467
It blinds us
when we're normal

245
00:21:41,467 --> 00:21:43,467
to the danger that is
in front of us.

246
00:21:43,567 --> 00:21:46,300
It disarms us
and makes them more lethal.

247
00:21:46,367 --> 00:21:48,600
We don't see it coming,
and they know it.

248
00:22:13,567 --> 00:22:15,834
We'd like to think that
most people would accept

249
00:22:15,834 --> 00:22:17,967
the rejection, apologize.

250
00:22:17,967 --> 00:22:21,367
Many psychopaths don't have
a good appreciation of how well

251
00:22:21,467 --> 00:22:22,452
they're doing in their charm,
and he may have thought it was

252
00:22:22,452 --> 00:22:25,000
they're doing in their charm,
and he may have thought it was

253
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:27,667
working very well, and then
when he was rejected,

254
00:22:27,734 --> 00:22:28,967
got angry.

255
00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:03,467
He has a tourniquet with him,

256
00:23:03,567 --> 00:23:06,266
which is not the thing
you take on a date.

257
00:23:06,367 --> 00:23:07,467
He's got to be up close

258
00:23:07,567 --> 00:23:10,166
and personal to strangle
someone with a tourniquet.

259
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,667
SAHNI: When we think about
these different traits

260
00:23:29,734 --> 00:23:31,734
we've discussed
in psychopathy,

261
00:23:31,734 --> 00:23:34,600
one of the important
distinguishing factors between

262
00:23:34,667 --> 00:23:37,200
those of us who aren't
psychopathic and those who are,

263
00:23:37,266 --> 00:23:40,000
is our willingness to
manipulate others to a degree

264
00:23:40,066 --> 00:23:41,166
that creates harm.

265
00:23:46,767 --> 00:23:49,367
Manipulation is something
that we use

266
00:23:49,367 --> 00:23:52,166
in our everyday life
all the time.

267
00:23:52,266 --> 00:23:52,452
Trying to get someone to buy
something if you're in sales,

268
00:23:52,452 --> 00:23:55,934
Trying to get someone to buy
something if you're in sales,

269
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,767
trying to get your toddler
to eat their vegetables.

270
00:23:59,867 --> 00:24:02,867
Manipulation is not necessarily
a -- a negative quality.

271
00:24:02,967 --> 00:24:06,066
It's a human quality
that exists in all of us.

272
00:24:06,066 --> 00:24:09,667
But then also manipulation
is yet another tool

273
00:24:09,734 --> 00:24:13,600
that psychopaths use
in order to victimize people.

274
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,467
TUSSEY: On the surface,
John Wayne Gacy

275
00:24:16,467 --> 00:24:18,467
looked like a regular
community member.

276
00:24:18,467 --> 00:24:20,967
He was even involved in
local politics.

277
00:24:20,967 --> 00:24:22,452
He performed as Pogo the Clown
at kids' parties.

278
00:24:22,452 --> 00:24:24,467
He performed as Pogo the Clown
at kids' parties.

279
00:24:38,967 --> 00:24:40,300
MORGAN:
Gacy lured people in with

280
00:24:40,367 --> 00:24:42,934
the promise of getting
a construction job.

281
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,767
That was a manipulation.
That's a very appealing offer.

282
00:24:45,867 --> 00:24:47,834
There's nothing
suspicious about it.

283
00:24:47,834 --> 00:24:51,266
I mean, "Oh, I'll get a job,"
and it's disarming.

284
00:24:51,367 --> 00:24:52,452
SAHNI: He would create
a scenario that he was gonna

285
00:24:52,452 --> 00:24:54,266
SAHNI: He would create
a scenario that he was gonna

286
00:24:54,367 --> 00:24:57,767
show them a magic trick to get
victims to voluntarily

287
00:24:57,867 --> 00:24:59,400
agree to be tied up.

288
00:24:59,467 --> 00:25:02,200
Most of us are sitting here
thinking, "I would never let

289
00:25:02,266 --> 00:25:03,567
someone just tie me up,"

290
00:25:03,567 --> 00:25:06,734
so that should give you
the litmus test and the measure

291
00:25:06,734 --> 00:25:09,367
for how successful he was.

292
00:25:09,367 --> 00:25:12,200
Michael Hernandez is another
good example of someone

293
00:25:12,266 --> 00:25:16,100
who uses manipulation to lure
his victims in.

294
00:25:53,266 --> 00:25:55,934
Jaime was good friends
with Hernandez.

295
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,400
He had no reason
to think that

296
00:25:57,467 --> 00:25:59,367
Hernandez would do anything
to harm him.

297
00:25:59,467 --> 00:26:02,600
Someone like Hernandez
doesn't return loyalties.

298
00:26:02,667 --> 00:26:04,166
He uses them
to exploit someone.

299
00:26:04,266 --> 00:26:06,266
He sees them
as signs of weakness.

300
00:26:29,266 --> 00:26:30,467
MORGAN:
It is a manipulation.

301
00:26:30,467 --> 00:26:33,500
They say whatever they need
to tell you to do it,

302
00:26:33,567 --> 00:26:35,166
and then we end up
believing if we follow

303
00:26:35,266 --> 00:26:38,000
their instructions,
then we believe it'll be okay.

304
00:26:38,066 --> 00:26:40,166
I think that's what Jaime's
doing in this setting,

305
00:26:40,266 --> 00:26:42,667
but with psychopaths
who manipulate,

306
00:26:42,734 --> 00:26:44,266
they're never gonna
let you go.

307
00:27:14,834 --> 00:27:18,100
Hernandez doesn't make
any real attempts to cover up

308
00:27:18,166 --> 00:27:21,000
the fact that he manipulated
Jaime, that that was his agenda,

309
00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:22,452
that was his goal, and that is
what he did to his friend.

310
00:27:22,452 --> 00:27:23,600
that was his goal, and that is
what he did to his friend.

311
00:27:23,667 --> 00:27:25,934
That is one of
those traits we see in

312
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,066
psychopathic individuals.

313
00:27:27,066 --> 00:27:30,166
We see that display of
just willing

314
00:27:30,166 --> 00:27:33,667
to look at humans as
transactional characters.

315
00:27:33,734 --> 00:27:36,100
They have something
that I want.

316
00:27:36,166 --> 00:27:38,000
How do I get it?
That lack of empathy

317
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:41,200
is definitely a marker
of psychopathic behavior.

318
00:28:04,767 --> 00:28:07,934
Lack of empathy is
a detachment

319
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,367
from the typical emotions
that we,

320
00:28:10,367 --> 00:28:13,400
as humans, experience when
we interact with each other.

321
00:28:13,467 --> 00:28:15,567
Jeffrey Dahmer sought out

322
00:28:15,667 --> 00:28:19,567
his victims ultimately wanting
to turn them into human zombies

323
00:28:19,667 --> 00:28:21,500
so that they had no real

324
00:28:21,567 --> 00:28:22,452
ability to interact with him,
all for his own pleasure,

325
00:28:22,452 --> 00:28:25,100
ability to interact with him,
all for his own pleasure,

326
00:28:25,166 --> 00:28:28,000
with zero remorse
for what he did.

327
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:30,834
For most of us,
we feel bad that somebody

328
00:28:30,834 --> 00:28:32,567
else is struggling
or suffering.

329
00:28:32,667 --> 00:28:34,266
With a psychopathic individual,

330
00:28:34,367 --> 00:28:37,000
they're not bothered by harm
and pain and suffering.

331
00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:39,667
They exhibit
that lack of empathy,

332
00:28:39,767 --> 00:28:40,767
that lack of connectedness,

333
00:28:40,834 --> 00:28:42,300
even to their own
family members.

334
00:28:42,367 --> 00:28:44,667
We see that in the case of
John Hummel.

335
00:29:25,867 --> 00:29:27,000
Lack of empathy,

336
00:29:27,066 --> 00:29:28,862
it definitely impact
someone's ability

337
00:29:28,862 --> 00:29:29,367
it definitely impact
someone's ability

338
00:29:29,367 --> 00:29:31,500
to maintain
long-term relationships.

339
00:29:31,567 --> 00:29:35,266
So for Hummel, rather than
problem solving in the way that

340
00:29:35,367 --> 00:29:36,734
other individuals might,

341
00:29:36,734 --> 00:29:39,867
when we have relationship
issues, he gets rid of his

342
00:29:39,934 --> 00:29:42,100
problem by getting rid of
his family.

343
00:30:22,667 --> 00:30:25,467
TUSSEY: He discusses it
so calmly.

344
00:30:25,467 --> 00:30:28,033
There's nothing
about his actions,

345
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:28,862
non-verbal or verbal,
that suggests he feels remorse

346
00:30:28,862 --> 00:30:31,667
non-verbal or verbal,
that suggests he feels remorse

347
00:30:31,734 --> 00:30:33,266
beyond the superficial

348
00:30:33,266 --> 00:30:35,767
acknowledgement that
he feels bad about it.

349
00:30:56,734 --> 00:30:58,862
He kills
his entire family,

350
00:30:58,862 --> 00:30:59,066
He kills
his entire family,

351
00:30:59,066 --> 00:31:01,166
and despite the fact that
people would say he was

352
00:31:01,266 --> 00:31:03,100
attached to his daughter,
that he loved her,

353
00:31:03,166 --> 00:31:05,867
he was enjoying being
a father and a parent,

354
00:31:05,967 --> 00:31:08,400
she was dispensable
when, ultimately,

355
00:31:08,467 --> 00:31:11,100
her needs conflicted
with his needs.

356
00:31:11,166 --> 00:31:14,066
And that's the key, really,
is that for some individuals,

357
00:31:14,066 --> 00:31:17,266
their psychopathic tendencies
stay in check for many,

358
00:31:17,266 --> 00:31:19,867
many years,
but the minute that their need

359
00:31:19,934 --> 00:31:22,300
comes into conflict
with other people's needs,

360
00:31:22,367 --> 00:31:24,667
they choose themselves.

361
00:32:04,767 --> 00:32:06,867
He's talking
about being detached.

362
00:32:06,967 --> 00:32:10,367
He's talking about
not feeling the closeness

363
00:32:10,467 --> 00:32:13,567
that he should have
for his family members.

364
00:32:13,567 --> 00:32:15,567
He's not thinking
about what happened

365
00:32:15,567 --> 00:32:18,100
after and getting
pleasure out of it.

366
00:32:18,166 --> 00:32:21,166
He's not reveling in it,
but he's not remorseful, either.

367
00:32:32,667 --> 00:32:37,467
Not only is he unable to
express the typical emotions

368
00:32:37,467 --> 00:32:38,667
that you would see in someone

369
00:32:38,767 --> 00:32:41,367
who's experiencing
the loss of someone else,

370
00:32:41,367 --> 00:32:42,767
let alone their own child,

371
00:32:42,834 --> 00:32:45,367
he's not even able
to do that for himself.

372
00:32:45,367 --> 00:32:50,467
His relationship with death
is really him saying,

373
00:32:50,467 --> 00:32:51,667
"I don't really know
how to feel.

374
00:32:51,734 --> 00:32:53,166
"I -- I don't
have these positive

375
00:32:53,166 --> 00:32:55,767
or negative feelings
associated with it."

376
00:33:20,367 --> 00:33:24,166
One thing we see with both
John Hummel and Kevin Davis is

377
00:33:24,166 --> 00:33:27,367
that they both have a very
significant lack of empathy,

378
00:33:27,467 --> 00:33:28,767
to a degree that

379
00:33:28,834 --> 00:33:28,862
they're able to victimize
people in their own family.

380
00:33:28,862 --> 00:33:31,367
they're able to victimize
people in their own family.

381
00:34:25,667 --> 00:34:28,862
He's saying that it's
a beautiful thing that happened,

382
00:34:28,862 --> 00:34:29,266
He's saying that it's
a beautiful thing that happened,

383
00:34:29,266 --> 00:34:31,166
and he's in awe of people

384
00:34:31,266 --> 00:34:33,867
that can do this in such
beautiful and creative ways.

385
00:34:33,934 --> 00:34:37,367
He's not showing any remorse
for doing what he did.

386
00:34:37,467 --> 00:34:41,066
He's not showing any regret
that it was his mother.

387
00:34:42,367 --> 00:34:44,400
SAHNI: There's a complete
lack of empathy.

388
00:34:44,467 --> 00:34:46,100
He knew that
she was struggling.

389
00:34:46,166 --> 00:34:49,567
He dragged her from room to
room and then continued

390
00:34:49,567 --> 00:34:53,100
to inflict pain on her
and inflict harm on her.

391
00:34:53,166 --> 00:34:57,166
And the way he describes this,
there's no emotion there.

392
00:35:10,667 --> 00:35:14,166
SAHNI: Individuals
who show real remorse,

393
00:35:14,166 --> 00:35:18,734
sincere remorse, are able to
focus on how their actions

394
00:35:18,734 --> 00:35:20,834
impacted the victim.

395
00:35:20,834 --> 00:35:22,500
Davis is really
illustrating that

396
00:35:22,567 --> 00:35:25,734
he doesn't distinguish --
people are people.

397
00:35:25,734 --> 00:35:28,862
People are just pieces of
meat -- he needed to do it.

398
00:35:28,862 --> 00:35:28,867
People are just pieces of
meat -- he needed to do it.

399
00:35:28,967 --> 00:35:29,934
He's done it now.

400
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,100
He's satisfied that urge,
that curiosity.

401
00:35:45,266 --> 00:35:48,033
This lack of regard that
we see in individuals

402
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:50,367
who have little
or no empathy

403
00:35:50,367 --> 00:35:54,467
can sometimes
propel them to take advantage

404
00:35:54,467 --> 00:35:55,767
of other people, as well.

405
00:35:55,867 --> 00:35:58,166
Using someone
or a family member

406
00:35:58,166 --> 00:35:58,862
to get what
they need or want.

407
00:35:58,862 --> 00:36:00,467
to get what
they need or want.

408
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,367
Parasitic lifestyle is another
trait that we often see in

409
00:36:05,467 --> 00:36:08,867
psychopaths, very similar to
a parasitic relationship in

410
00:36:08,934 --> 00:36:10,066
the animal world.

411
00:36:10,066 --> 00:36:12,967
The parasite
is taking, taking,

412
00:36:13,033 --> 00:36:15,200
taking and giving
almost nothing back.

413
00:36:15,266 --> 00:36:18,567
They're able to victimize
people in their own family,

414
00:36:18,667 --> 00:36:22,266
and when the livelihood
is threatened,

415
00:36:22,266 --> 00:36:26,100
okay, well that's enough of
you -- you need to be killed.

416
00:36:42,867 --> 00:36:46,000
What would being a success,
what does that mean, you know?

417
00:36:46,066 --> 00:36:47,100
Money?

418
00:36:47,166 --> 00:36:49,567
If I didn't have two
or three girls to help me,

419
00:36:49,567 --> 00:36:52,133
I would pretty much be lost,
and I wouldn't know what

420
00:36:52,133 --> 00:36:53,266
the hell I'm doing.

421
00:37:08,266 --> 00:37:12,074
TUSSEY: Charles Manson
exemplifies parasitic living.

422
00:37:12,074 --> 00:37:12,133
TUSSEY: Charles Manson
exemplifies parasitic living.

423
00:37:12,133 --> 00:37:16,567
He lived with his followers,
he asked them to carry out

424
00:37:16,567 --> 00:37:18,567
tasks on his behalf,

425
00:37:18,667 --> 00:37:21,166
and he took advantage
of them.

426
00:37:21,266 --> 00:37:24,033
They catered to him,
and he allowed them to.

427
00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:26,000
He even called them
the Family.

428
00:37:33,867 --> 00:37:36,033
As humans, we all
like to feel safe.

429
00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:39,500
We need to feel safe.
That's one of our basic needs.

430
00:37:39,567 --> 00:37:42,074
We enjoy feeling taken care of
or catered to.

431
00:37:42,074 --> 00:37:44,166
We enjoy feeling taken care of
or catered to.

432
00:37:44,266 --> 00:37:49,600
But someone who is living
a parasitic lifestyle is

433
00:37:49,667 --> 00:37:52,734
an individual who takes what
they need

434
00:37:52,734 --> 00:37:55,500
or what they want from whoever
they can take it from.

435
00:37:55,567 --> 00:37:57,166
They live off of others.

436
00:37:57,266 --> 00:38:00,367
And Grant Amato is a great
example of that.

437
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,100
Mr. Amato's living at home and
annoyed when his parents say,

438
00:38:23,166 --> 00:38:24,600
"You need to be making
a contribution."

439
00:38:24,667 --> 00:38:28,367
It's his view that he shouldn't
have to do anything,

440
00:38:28,367 --> 00:38:31,567
and he views
their demand as unreasonable.

441
00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:12,074
MORGAN:
As we see in psychopathy,

442
00:39:12,074 --> 00:39:12,266
MORGAN:
As we see in psychopathy,

443
00:39:12,266 --> 00:39:14,567
they prefer fantasy
to reality.

444
00:39:14,667 --> 00:39:16,367
He will do everything
he can to

445
00:39:16,367 --> 00:39:21,400
preserve his relationship
with his internet model,

446
00:39:21,467 --> 00:39:23,066
and he doesn't pay
any attention

447
00:39:23,133 --> 00:39:26,500
to the actual family
around him.

448
00:39:26,567 --> 00:39:29,066
He has the feeling that
he's entitled to their money.

449
00:39:29,133 --> 00:39:30,767
He doesn't have
to ask to take it.

450
00:39:30,834 --> 00:39:33,400
It's his for the taking,
it's an extension

451
00:39:33,467 --> 00:39:37,300
of that view of other people
are things from --

452
00:39:37,367 --> 00:39:39,300
for me to benefit from.

453
00:40:20,467 --> 00:40:25,266
He's almost blaming them for
expecting him to have a job

454
00:40:25,367 --> 00:40:28,367
or for them refusing
to continue to pay

455
00:40:28,467 --> 00:40:29,767
for this virtual girlfriend.

456
00:40:29,867 --> 00:40:31,367
His entire life,

457
00:40:31,367 --> 00:40:34,266
his goal is seeking his own
pleasure, and that's at

458
00:40:34,367 --> 00:40:37,100
the expense of everyone else
who's willing to fund it.

459
00:40:37,166 --> 00:40:39,266
He couldn't forgive
his family

460
00:40:39,367 --> 00:40:42,074
for basically ruining
his fantasy love.

461
00:40:42,074 --> 00:40:43,000
for basically ruining
his fantasy love.

462
00:40:43,066 --> 00:40:45,834
Instead,
he murders his family.

463
00:41:10,166 --> 00:41:12,074
SAHNI: We've talked about
just some of the traits

464
00:41:12,074 --> 00:41:12,266
SAHNI: We've talked about
just some of the traits

465
00:41:12,367 --> 00:41:15,100
and behaviors
and the psychopathic features

466
00:41:15,166 --> 00:41:17,734
we look at in psychopathy
as experts.

467
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,367
MORGAN: We don't know
who's gonna be a psychopath.

468
00:41:21,367 --> 00:41:24,300
So I think learning about
the traits means we can

469
00:41:24,367 --> 00:41:26,033
examine in our relationships

470
00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:28,300
with other people,
to what degree is this

471
00:41:28,367 --> 00:41:29,767
feature going on?

472
00:41:29,834 --> 00:41:31,767
Then we have to ask,
when is it dangerous?

473
00:41:31,834 --> 00:41:34,367
So when people realize
they might be in danger,

474
00:41:34,367 --> 00:41:36,133
it can save our lives.

475
00:41:49,467 --> 00:41:52,500
These traits live in all of us
at different times in

476
00:41:52,567 --> 00:41:54,767
our lives,
different life situations

477
00:41:54,834 --> 00:41:56,834
and circumstances,
and this is what makes

478
00:41:56,834 --> 00:41:59,834
psychopathic behavior so scary
for everybody is there are

479
00:41:59,834 --> 00:42:03,600
times we don't see any warning
signs, and they do live and walk

480
00:42:03,667 --> 00:42:06,133
among us -- keep your eyes open
for the signs.