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00:00:14,266 --> 00:00:16,100
-MAN: You murdered this man?
-Yes.

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00:00:16,166 --> 00:00:17,667
-You tortured him.
-Of course.

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00:00:19,166 --> 00:00:21,166
If you had that moment
to live over again...

4
00:00:21,266 --> 00:00:22,667
I'd have kept him alive
a week.

5
00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:26,100
But you would have still
tortured him

6
00:00:26,166 --> 00:00:27,567
and killed him.
-Oh, I'd have tortured him

7
00:00:27,567 --> 00:00:30,000
for a week, yeah, instead of
three days, definitely.

8
00:00:31,367 --> 00:00:34,467
You believe him? Do you think
he really was a snitch?

9
00:00:34,567 --> 00:00:35,867
Oops if he wasn't.

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00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,100
MAN: Are you remorseful?

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-Not at all.
-Why?

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Why would I be?

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What's the difference?

14
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Everybody has a reason
to kill.

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The thing inside of me,
it's like

16
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the appetite --
it's like a wolf that's...

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feeling the hunger.

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WOMAN:
Around five a.m.,

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00:01:25,266 --> 00:01:27,467
Phoenix firefighters
responded to a fire on

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the church's property --
while putting it out,

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they noticed a badly charred
body in a container.

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they noticed a badly charred
body in a container.

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Detectives now say the victim
was a white man, 46 years old.

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There's a level
of violence and sadism

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to the crime,
and the level of overkill,

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the level of torture, that this
victim likely experienced tells

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us this is somebody
we're dealing with

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who doesn't have any regard
for human life.

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This is likely somebody
who either had

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a level of rage or vendetta
against the victim.

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He used a wheelchair to get
around -- whoever killed him

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00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:30,600
He used a wheelchair to get
around -- whoever killed him

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knew that he was vulnerable,

34
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which made him an easier
target, and also likely made it

35
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easier for them to overcome him
and overpower him.

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MORGAN: She's trying to do
image management.

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She's gonna
look really cold,

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like hardened person
who can kill people.

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So she is concerned with how
she's gonna be viewed.

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00:03:28,467 --> 00:03:30,000
There's a narcissistic element
to psychopathy, and there's

41
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There's a narcissistic element
to psychopathy, and there's

42
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the control element,

43
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to be in charge, and she's
doing both of those things.

44
00:04:06,266 --> 00:04:11,600
DERIGHT: Simpson is confessing
to a brutal murder, and it's as

45
00:04:11,667 --> 00:04:15,000
if she couldn't be bothered
with anything in the world.

46
00:04:15,066 --> 00:04:17,300
She's sitting there having
a snack,

47
00:04:17,367 --> 00:04:21,066
taking a sip of her soda,
as she's admitting to it.

48
00:04:21,066 --> 00:04:23,367
She has a very flat affect.

49
00:04:23,367 --> 00:04:25,667
She's not showing
changes in the tone

50
00:04:25,667 --> 00:04:28,100
of her voice
or her facial expressions.

51
00:04:28,166 --> 00:04:29,667
She's saying it
as if she's telling

52
00:04:29,767 --> 00:04:30,000
you what she ate
for breakfast that day.

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00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,266
you what she ate
for breakfast that day.

54
00:04:52,367 --> 00:04:54,967
SAHNI: That ability to change
who they are, to change how they

55
00:04:54,967 --> 00:04:57,266
approach you, how they present,
how they look.

56
00:04:57,367 --> 00:05:00,000
That chameleon skill is very
much a marker

57
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,767
That chameleon skill is very
much a marker

58
00:05:00,767 --> 00:05:03,266
of the type of psychopath
that navigates

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00:05:03,367 --> 00:05:04,266
different environments.

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00:05:04,367 --> 00:05:06,000
They're able to lure
victims in

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00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:08,667
by studying them,
learning what it is

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that's gonna be the hook
for that individual.

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00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,867
She likely would have been
more flirtatious, more cunning,

64
00:05:13,967 --> 00:05:17,166
which is what allowed him
to trust her and go with her.

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00:05:17,166 --> 00:05:18,967
And that is not likely
the person

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00:05:18,967 --> 00:05:20,700
we're seeing in any of
these interviews.

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00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,867
SAHNI: There's no evidence
that the victim

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00:05:55,867 --> 00:05:57,700
ever was an informant.

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00:05:57,767 --> 00:06:00,000
Simpson sees herself as some
kind of a vigilante.

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00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,166
Simpson sees herself as some
kind of a vigilante.

71
00:06:01,166 --> 00:06:04,667
It's her job to decide
who lives and who dies.

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00:06:04,767 --> 00:06:08,667
She is firmly convinced
that her view is

73
00:06:08,667 --> 00:06:11,467
the reality
and justifies her action.

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00:06:11,567 --> 00:06:13,467
With psychopaths, once they've
made up their minds,

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there's this
narcissistic approach.

76
00:06:14,867 --> 00:06:17,100
Like I know it all,
I know what I'm doing.

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00:06:17,166 --> 00:06:19,500
I don't second guess myself,
because I'm right.

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00:06:19,567 --> 00:06:21,000
They've decided they know
what they're doing.

79
00:06:21,100 --> 00:06:23,767
So she was a little more
impulsive in that way.

80
00:07:22,100 --> 00:07:25,967
Simpson seems
to think of herself as

81
00:07:25,967 --> 00:07:28,767
on a different level
than other people,

82
00:07:28,767 --> 00:07:31,066
such that she believes
this person

83
00:07:31,066 --> 00:07:34,266
is so wrong
for being a snitch,

84
00:07:34,367 --> 00:07:38,066
she acted on something
that she had little basis

85
00:07:38,066 --> 00:07:39,667
for knowing.

86
00:07:39,667 --> 00:07:41,166
She thought this person
was a snitch.

87
00:07:41,166 --> 00:07:42,767
It didn't end up
being true.

88
00:07:42,767 --> 00:07:47,000
She still has no remorse
for it, and she

89
00:07:47,066 --> 00:07:50,576
was so extreme in what
she did to this person.

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00:07:50,576 --> 00:07:50,600
was so extreme in what
she did to this person.

91
00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:49,700
Simpson gets a high
off these interviews.

92
00:08:49,767 --> 00:08:50,576
She gets to recount
the crime.

93
00:08:50,576 --> 00:08:51,367
She gets to recount
the crime.

94
00:08:51,367 --> 00:08:54,667
She gets to remember the most
sensational aspects of

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00:08:54,667 --> 00:08:58,100
the crime -- by putting
a mirror in front of him

96
00:08:58,166 --> 00:09:00,667
and showing him how badly
beaten he is,

97
00:09:00,667 --> 00:09:04,467
it's deflating to the victim --
victims start to, at some point,

98
00:09:04,567 --> 00:09:06,000
give up hope,

99
00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:09,300
and when an individual is
sadistic, and they need that

100
00:09:09,367 --> 00:09:14,367
high, it banks on
the victim fighting,

101
00:09:14,467 --> 00:09:17,867
resisting,
showing force and fear.

102
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:52,900
SAHNI:
She's referencing a song,

103
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,567
"Show Me How to Live"
by Audioslave.

104
00:09:54,667 --> 00:09:57,567
Her decision to throw
this idea out there

105
00:09:57,567 --> 00:09:59,367
that she was following
the lyrics of a song

106
00:09:59,367 --> 00:10:01,400
I think is just
an impulsive response

107
00:10:01,467 --> 00:10:02,667
to the investigator.

108
00:10:02,667 --> 00:10:05,567
She then clarifies
that's not actually the lyric,

109
00:10:05,567 --> 00:10:07,767
it should have been the hand
instead of the head.

110
00:10:07,867 --> 00:10:09,667
This has absolutely nothing
to do with the crime.

111
00:10:09,767 --> 00:10:12,367
She did impale a three-inch
nail into the victim's head,

112
00:10:12,367 --> 00:10:14,166
and I think that was
a plain and simple decision

113
00:10:14,266 --> 00:10:16,567
to turn the temperature up
on the amount of torture

114
00:10:16,667 --> 00:10:18,467
she subjected the victim to.

115
00:11:31,367 --> 00:11:35,767
People with psychopathic
traits are apt to target people

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00:11:35,867 --> 00:11:39,967
that are weaker or vulnerable,
because they're easy

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00:11:39,967 --> 00:11:41,300
to overtake.

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00:11:41,367 --> 00:11:45,066
They have a strong sense of
knowing when someone is going

119
00:11:45,066 --> 00:11:45,508
to be an easier target,
and they will prey on them.

120
00:11:45,508 --> 00:11:49,400
to be an easier target,
and they will prey on them.

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00:11:49,467 --> 00:11:53,166
It's likely that she thought
that, because of his disability,

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00:11:53,266 --> 00:11:56,266
he was someone that she could
more easily overpower

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and kill, basically.

124
00:11:58,467 --> 00:12:01,367
She -- she wanted to be able
to have someone who

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00:12:01,467 --> 00:12:05,600
she'd be able to take out
without a lot of effort.

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00:12:35,767 --> 00:12:37,367
SAHNI:
He was physically disabled.

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00:12:37,467 --> 00:12:41,100
Her decision to dismember him
and cut into even where he had

128
00:12:41,166 --> 00:12:43,667
had knee surgery
really just speaks to

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00:12:43,767 --> 00:12:45,266
this was a science experiment
for her.

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00:12:45,367 --> 00:12:45,508
This was really no different
than how a high school student

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00:12:45,508 --> 00:12:48,700
This was really no different
than how a high school student

132
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might dissect
an eyeball of an animal,

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00:12:52,567 --> 00:12:54,367
a cat, a frog.

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00:12:54,467 --> 00:12:57,200
This is someone who did not
see this as a human being.

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00:12:57,266 --> 00:12:59,000
This was just
for her own stimulation

136
00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:01,000
and benefit and her own
curiosity, really.

137
00:13:38,166 --> 00:13:41,667
Simpson's description of
the victim and his limbs,

138
00:13:41,667 --> 00:13:44,000
as if it's
a chicken carcass being

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00:13:44,066 --> 00:13:45,508
cut up for a roast and for
dinner, really speaks to just

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00:13:45,508 --> 00:13:47,200
cut up for a roast and for
dinner, really speaks to just

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00:13:47,266 --> 00:13:49,166
how much she dehumanized
her victim,

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00:13:49,266 --> 00:13:53,400
how her relationship with people
is 100 percent instrumental.

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00:13:53,467 --> 00:13:56,767
It was about getting high --
she took that opportunity to

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00:13:56,767 --> 00:14:00,300
celebrate her kill, and she was
proud of what she did.

145
00:14:00,367 --> 00:14:01,700
There's absolutely
no doubt about that.

146
00:14:01,767 --> 00:14:04,500
You see that pride in how she
recounts what she's done to him.

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00:14:49,467 --> 00:14:51,500
MORGAN: She gets annoyed
when they're asking --

148
00:14:51,567 --> 00:14:53,200
when she has to explain,

149
00:14:53,266 --> 00:14:55,400
did she clean the walls,
did she get rid of the carpet?

150
00:14:55,467 --> 00:14:58,100
And she sees
all that as irrelevant.

151
00:14:58,166 --> 00:15:00,100
That's tedious.
Those are trivial.

152
00:15:00,166 --> 00:15:01,567
Those are
non-important to her.

153
00:15:01,567 --> 00:15:05,367
This is the narcissist
response in psychopathy to

154
00:15:05,367 --> 00:15:07,100
being asked detailed questions,

155
00:15:07,166 --> 00:15:09,000
because if she thought
they were important,

156
00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:11,767
she already mentioned it,
and you see the irritability,

157
00:15:11,867 --> 00:15:13,166
because that's
the confrontation

158
00:15:13,166 --> 00:15:15,467
between who's running
this thing, and so she says,

159
00:15:15,467 --> 00:15:15,508
"That's irrelevant,"
and she dismisses it.

160
00:15:15,508 --> 00:15:17,567
"That's irrelevant,"
and she dismisses it.

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00:15:46,700 --> 00:15:49,166
MORGAN: I think that
she knows this is

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00:15:49,166 --> 00:15:50,867
shocking to the interviewer.

163
00:15:50,967 --> 00:15:54,266
She's trying to make it funny,
and nothing's funny about

164
00:15:54,367 --> 00:15:55,500
what she's talking about,

165
00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:58,600
and so we see this is that
superficial and glib humor

166
00:15:58,667 --> 00:16:01,367
she's demonstrating --
one impact of the behavior

167
00:16:01,467 --> 00:16:04,667
is that it controls
the interviewer's attention.

168
00:16:04,667 --> 00:16:07,000
It's an emotional lure.

169
00:16:07,066 --> 00:16:08,967
It's playing
with the interviewer.

170
00:16:08,967 --> 00:16:11,700
The other one is that it
projects an image,

171
00:16:11,767 --> 00:16:15,508
that she's beyond
feelings of these things

172
00:16:15,508 --> 00:16:16,000
that she's beyond
feelings of these things

173
00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:17,567
that we all might
find horrifying,

174
00:16:17,567 --> 00:16:19,667
which is a superiority view.

175
00:16:19,767 --> 00:16:22,400
Like, I'm beyond the thing
that you might find shocking.

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00:17:11,166 --> 00:17:12,700
DERIGHT: This seems to be
another way that --

177
00:17:12,767 --> 00:17:13,767
that she was celebrating.

178
00:17:13,767 --> 00:17:15,508
It was kind of a victory lap
with this chair

179
00:17:15,508 --> 00:17:16,967
It was kind of a victory lap
with this chair

180
00:17:16,967 --> 00:17:20,266
that he was presumably
known by in the community.

181
00:17:20,266 --> 00:17:23,300
So she feels like
she won this battle,

182
00:17:23,367 --> 00:17:26,700
did a good thing, and was
showing off, essentially.

183
00:17:26,767 --> 00:17:28,867
This is not someone
who did

184
00:17:28,967 --> 00:17:31,266
a terrible thing
and is trying to evade capture.

185
00:17:31,266 --> 00:17:33,467
This is someone
who is literally

186
00:17:33,567 --> 00:17:37,166
riding around town
on the wheelchair.

187
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,900
My view of Simpson's dropping
breadcrumbs, hints about other

188
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,100
crimes and things,
is her way of

189
00:18:40,166 --> 00:18:42,700
not only controlling
the interview but controlling

190
00:18:42,767 --> 00:18:45,767
interest, the emotions,
of the interviewer.

191
00:18:45,767 --> 00:18:50,266
She's presenting herself as
a seasoned and skilled person

192
00:18:50,367 --> 00:18:52,404
who can kill people,
so she's an expert,

193
00:18:52,404 --> 00:18:52,467
who can kill people,
so she's an expert,

194
00:18:52,467 --> 00:18:56,166
right, and stuff doesn't
bother her, and she's not gonna

195
00:18:56,266 --> 00:18:58,000
get other people involved,
because she can do it.

196
00:18:58,066 --> 00:19:00,066
She's done it before,
but we're not gonna talk

197
00:19:00,066 --> 00:19:01,900
about that --
it's teasing.

198
00:19:16,300 --> 00:19:19,266
With psychopathic individuals,
when they

199
00:19:19,367 --> 00:19:21,567
have a history of animal harm,

200
00:19:21,667 --> 00:19:22,404
it's not surprising that
it starts during childhood.

201
00:19:22,404 --> 00:19:25,100
it's not surprising that
it starts during childhood.

202
00:19:25,166 --> 00:19:28,800
Oftentimes, they start with
small animals, such as birds,

203
00:19:28,867 --> 00:19:30,767
squirrels, hamsters,

204
00:19:30,867 --> 00:19:34,166
the family rodent,
the family cat, the family dog.

205
00:19:34,266 --> 00:19:36,266
And the significance of
starting with small animals

206
00:19:36,266 --> 00:19:37,900
is that they're easy
to overtake.

207
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,800
They're easy to overpower.

208
00:19:39,867 --> 00:19:41,767
It's easy to control them.

209
00:19:41,767 --> 00:19:45,100
When Simpson references that
she hasn't gotten an elk yet,

210
00:19:45,166 --> 00:19:48,467
that's both a reference to her
being a predator and a hunter,

211
00:19:48,467 --> 00:19:52,404
and everyone else
that's living being prey.

212
00:19:52,404 --> 00:19:52,867
and everyone else
that's living being prey.

213
00:19:58,667 --> 00:20:00,100
[laughs]

214
00:20:40,967 --> 00:20:44,266
MAN: Women generally
don't commit crimes

215
00:20:44,367 --> 00:20:45,867
this heinous.
-Right.

216
00:20:45,867 --> 00:20:48,367
MAN: You know, this is usually
the domain of men.

217
00:20:48,367 --> 00:20:51,166
-That's unfortunate.
-You think more women should...

218
00:20:51,166 --> 00:20:52,404
Oh, yeah -- equal
opportunity, definitely.

219
00:20:52,404 --> 00:20:53,800
Oh, yeah -- equal
opportunity, definitely.

220
00:20:53,867 --> 00:20:56,900
-Will you kill again?
-If the opportunity arises?

221
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,166
I hope so.