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[Music]

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.BZ

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[Music]

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SARAH SALVIANDER:
There are those in science

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who say the exquisite
nature of the universe,

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the exquisite laws
of the universe,

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are evidence of a designer.

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Does that view
make sense to you?

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[Music]

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STEPHEN MEYER: For 2,500
years, there have been two great

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competing stories about
reality in Western culture.

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According to one of these
stories, the universe, our planet,

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the life it contains,
and especially all of us,

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are products of a
pre-existing intelligence,

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a purposeful mind or creator.

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JOHN LENNOX: People
like Galileo, Kepler,

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Newton were all
believers in the existence

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of an intelligent designer
behind the universe.

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GUEST: Newton, Boyle,
Kepler, the great founders

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of modern science, thought
that nature had secrets to reveal.

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There were patterns
there to be revealed

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that we could understand
because our minds had been made

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in the image of the
same rational creator

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who had built
rationality and design

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and lawful order into the world.

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But according to another
story, matter and energy interact

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and evolve in a
completely mindless,

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undirected way and
arrange themselves

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into everything
we see around us.

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SPEAKER: World famous atheist
Richard Dawkins inspired millions

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by popularizing
evolutionary biology.

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RICHARD DAWKINS:
Once you've got life started,

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once natural selection,

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Darwinian natural
selection has got going,

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then we pretty much
understand the four billion year

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history of what's
given rise to us

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and all other living creatures.

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SPEAKER: And that's the
story I want to tell you about.

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The things that we hold dear,
including our very existence,

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are in a cosmic accident.

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SPEAKER: It seems so obvious
that if you've got a garden,

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there must be a gardener.

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But what science has now
achieved is an emancipation

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from that impulse to attribute
these things to a creator.

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STEPHEN MEYER: And
this view became popular

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because of scientific theories
developed in the 19th century.

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SPEAKER: Scientists like
Pierre Laplace, Charles Darwin,

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and Thomas Henry Huxley
each tried to explain events

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in the history of the
universe, like the origin

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of the solar system, the
origin of new forms of life,

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and even the origin
of the very first life.

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STEPHEN MEYER: By
the end of the 19th century,

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a seamless story of the
origin of nearly everything

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could be told as a
consequence of slow, gradual,

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and purely
naturalistic processes.

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JAY RICHARDS:
By the 19th century,

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science had come
to be associated

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with a larger philosophical
idea called materialism,

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in which you just
presuppose that the material

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universe is all there is.

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STEPHEN MEYER: And that's
why many leading scientists

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have claimed that science
undermines belief in any intelligent

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or purposeful creator
behind the universe.

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SPEAKER: Yes or
no to this statement.

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Science refutes God.

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SPEAKER: 500 years of science
have demonstrated that God,

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that vague
notion, is not likely.

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NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON:
I have no problems if,

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as we probe the
origins of things,

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we bump up into the bearded man.

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If that shows up,
we're good to go.

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OK?

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Not a problem.

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There's just no evidence of it.

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JOE ROGAN: How
do you respond to that?

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GUEST: It's not what Darwin
thought in the 19th century.

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It's a new day in biology.

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Things are much more
complex than people thought

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when they formulated
these evolutionary ideas.

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JOE ROGAN:
There's a lot of people

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that adopt philosophies
that mimic religions.

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GUEST: If you can
show that life arose

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by a completely undirected
evolutionary process,

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you're going to be more inclined

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toward a more
materialistic worldview.

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STEPHEN MEYER:
And that view, if true,

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has profound consequences
for whether our lives

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have any ultimate
meaning or significance.

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PIERCE MORGAN: Have
you thought about what happens

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when your life ends?

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GUEST: Have I thought
about what happens?

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PIERCE MORGAN: Yeah.
GUEST: Of course, I die.

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PIERCE MORGAN: Yeah.

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What do you think happens?

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GUEST: I think I get
buried or cremated.

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PIERCE MORGAN: And that's it?

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GUEST: Nothing after that.

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You have a brain which decays.

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There's just nothing.

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SPEAKER: Here we
are, like mites on a plum.

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And the plum is
this little planet,

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and it goes around an
insignificant local star.

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And that star is on the obscure
outskirts of an ordinary galaxy,

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which contains 400
billion other stars.

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And this galaxy is
just one of something

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like 100 billion other galaxies.

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So, the idea that
we are central,

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that we are the reason
there is a universe, is pathetic.

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STEPHEN MEYER: This
bleak view of the universe

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troubles many people.

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If we are the products of
purely impersonal materialistic

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forces, and if eventually the
universe will experience a heat

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death, leaving only cold,
dark matter as scientists tell us,

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then there can't be
any lasting meaning

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or purpose to our existence.

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DAVID BERLINSKI:
But is that true?

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How likely is it
that this panorama

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that appears to me
every time I open my eyes

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does not have some very
good reason for its existence?

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JAY RICHARDS:
So, we have two great,

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competing stories about reality.

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One posits a purposeful
creator behind the universe.

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The other envisions
mindless processes

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producing everything we see.

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But which of these
stories is true?

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What explains all of this?

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What's the story of everything?

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SPEAKER: You can say, "Look,
you can go back as far as you want,

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but somehow the stuff of
the universe had to come

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from somewhere, and
isn't that what God did?”

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But that's only true if
the universe was created.

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If the universe was always here,

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if the universe
was infinitely old,

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then there's nothing
for a creator to do.

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STEPHEN MEYER:
How did the universe start?

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It's an ancient question
that goes back all the way

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to the ancient Greeks.

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Has the universe always
been here, or is it finite?

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A philosophical question
that science began to address

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and answer in the
beginning of the 20th century.

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And it starts with a
relatively unknown

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astronomer named Vesto Slipher.

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Slipher is looking
through telescopes,

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and he's looking at these nebular
phenomena in the night sky.

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ROBERT SHELDON: Fuzzy
things that never focused

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in your telescope.

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STEPHEN MEYER:
But what Slipher was able

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to discover was
that the light coming

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from these nebulae is
shifted in the red direction

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of the electromagnetic spectrum.

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You shine light through a prism,

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it will separate into the
different colors, red to violet.

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The red light corresponds to
light with longer wavelengths.

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SARAH SALVIANDER: We
call it redshift because light

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that has a longer wavelength
tends to be more red in color.

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Let's say that you've got
a firetruck going past you

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with its siren on.

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And as it goes past,
the pitch changes.

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So [imitates siren].

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As something is
moving away from you,

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whatever kind of
waves it's emitting,

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whether it's sound
waves or light waves,

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are going to be stretched out.

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So, since the nebula that
Slipher observed was shifted

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in the red direction, it
meant that the nebula

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was moving away from us.

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STEPHEN MEYER:
Now, a nebula, at the time,

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was thought to be just a
gas cloud within our galaxy.

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There were some astronomers
who thought it might be at a galaxy

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beyond, but that was a debate.

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Then, in 1924, the debate
was effectively settled

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when Edwin Hubble
used some new techniques

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for measuring
astronomical distances.

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Hubble started looking at the
Andromeda nebula and realized

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that it was at least 900,000
light years away from us,

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and yet the distance
across our whole

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galaxy was only
300,000 light years.

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And so, he realized
that those nebulae

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must be separate galaxies.

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[Music]

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And then, as he was
looking at the galaxies

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with this wonderful
new dome telescope,

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he was also then able to
see the beautiful structure,

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not just a gaseous smudge
on a photographic plate.

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And Hubble then began to study
not just the Andromeda Nebula,

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but many of these nebulae, i.e.

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galaxies, and discovered
they were all shifted

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in the red direction, meaning
they were all moving away from us.

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ROBERT SHELDON: So, it looked as

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if space-time itself was
expanding and stretching--

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STEPHEN MEYER:
Like a balloon blowing up.

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There's a uniform
expansion of almost

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all the galaxies moving outward.

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SARAH SALVIANDER: But what
do you do when you mentally run

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that scenario in reverse?

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STEPHEN MEYER: As we
begin to wind that clock backwards

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and think of what the universe
would have been like a thousand

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years ago, or a million years
ago, or a billion years ago,

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or however far back you go,
eventually you're gonna get

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to a place where all of
that expanding material

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would have congealed
in the same place,

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marking the beginning
of the expansion.

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And arguably, the beginning
of the universe itself.

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SPEAKER: But there
was something else.

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Several years earlier, the
physicist Albert Einstein made

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a breakthrough in our
understanding of gravity,

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one that also pointed to a
beginning of the universe.

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But he found this implication
of his theory so disturbing

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that he dismissed
it out of hand.

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STEPHEN MEYER: In 1915, he
developed a revolutionary new theory

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of gravity called
general relativity.

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ALBERT EINSTEIN: The
largest change in man's view

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of the universe
since Isaac Newton.

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Nobody could
foresee its implication.

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STEPHEN MEYER: It
implied that massive bodies

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in space literally
curved space itself...

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in much the same way that a
bowling ball changes the shape

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of a trampoline.

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ALBERT EINSTEIN: The
distortions of space due

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to a massive body like
the sun shaped the course

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of lesser objects
like the planets.

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ROBERT SHELDON: That
discovery was so powerful

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that Einstein went from
being a nerdy physicist

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to a worldwide sensation.

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STEPHEN MEYER: His theory
not only changed our understanding

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of the present
structure of the universe,

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it also had profound implications
for a long-standing question

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about the origin
of the universe.

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ROBERT SHELDON:
Einstein's theory implied

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that in addition
to gravity, there

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must be an outward
pushing force.

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STEPHEN MEYER: Because
if gravity were the only force

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in the universe, everything
would have congealed

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into one big black hole.

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But we don't live in
that kind of universe.

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We live in a universe
where there is empty space

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between massive bodies.

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There must be some
sort of anti-gravity force

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or some sort of
outward pushing force

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that creates the empty space.

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ROBERT SHELDON: He
struggled and struggled with it.

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And finally, he said,
"I'm going to need to put

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00:13:14,460 --> 00:13:19,298
in an anti-gravity term into my
general equation of relativity,”

245
00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:21,717
and he called it the
cosmological constant.

246
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,260
STEPHEN MEYER: And
physicists today accept

247
00:13:23,344 --> 00:13:25,012
that there is a
cosmological constant.

248
00:13:25,054 --> 00:13:27,097
There is an outward
pushing force.

249
00:13:27,181 --> 00:13:28,682
But Einstein made
a further move.

250
00:13:31,268 --> 00:13:33,687
He simply chose
an arbitrary value

251
00:13:33,729 --> 00:13:35,231
for this outward
pushing force, one

252
00:13:35,272 --> 00:13:38,442
that was exactly balanced
to the force of gravity,

253
00:13:38,526 --> 00:13:42,363
to suggest that the
universe was static,

254
00:13:42,446 --> 00:13:44,532
neither expanding
nor contracting,

255
00:13:44,573 --> 00:13:47,826
and is therefore
eternal and self-existent.

256
00:13:51,455 --> 00:13:54,291
However, theoretical
physicists began

257
00:13:54,333 --> 00:13:56,293
to work with
Einstein's equations.

258
00:14:01,590 --> 00:14:04,593
And one of the physicists
was the Belgian priest,

259
00:14:04,677 --> 00:14:05,678
Georges Lemaître.

260
00:14:09,265 --> 00:14:12,768
They realized that the
most natural implication

261
00:14:12,810 --> 00:14:16,438
of Einstein's equations was
that the universe was expanding.

262
00:14:18,315 --> 00:14:21,819
But Lemaître was also
aware of the data coming

263
00:14:21,902 --> 00:14:23,654
from Vesto Slipher
about the red shift.

264
00:14:26,323 --> 00:14:29,702
So, Lemaître pulled those
two lines of evidence together

265
00:14:29,785 --> 00:14:32,496
and formulated what is now
known as the Big Bang Theory.

266
00:14:32,538 --> 00:14:43,215
JAY RICHARDS: Einstein,
for various philosophical

267
00:14:43,257 --> 00:14:44,800
or theoretical
reasons, was trying

268
00:14:44,883 --> 00:14:47,553
to avoid the
implications of his theory.

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00:14:50,848 --> 00:14:53,726
STEPHEN MEYER: But
Lemaître and Einstein met

270
00:14:53,809 --> 00:14:55,144
at a conference in 1927.

271
00:14:55,227 --> 00:14:58,814
They had shared a
taxi cab ride together,

272
00:14:58,897 --> 00:15:01,650
where Lemaître
apparently informed Einstein

273
00:15:01,692 --> 00:15:04,320
about the redshift evidence
that the universe was actually

274
00:15:04,361 --> 00:15:08,365
expanding despite Einstein's
attempt to depict it as static.

275
00:15:10,701 --> 00:15:14,913
Einstein tells him that your
mathematics is impeccable,

276
00:15:15,039 --> 00:15:17,207
but your physical
intuition is abominable.

277
00:15:18,542 --> 00:15:21,754
Einstein accused him of
formulating this, deductively drawing it

278
00:15:21,795 --> 00:15:23,881
from the Christian doctrine
of creation rather than

279
00:15:23,964 --> 00:15:25,174
from the evidence.

280
00:15:25,257 --> 00:15:27,968
Lemaître bristled at
that, showed, no, actually,

281
00:15:28,052 --> 00:15:29,678
I have the evidence on my side.

282
00:15:29,762 --> 00:15:31,138
The universe is expanding.

283
00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:34,391
And your equations, when
solved, point to a beginning.

284
00:15:37,019 --> 00:15:39,855
And so, in 1931,
Einstein went out

285
00:15:39,897 --> 00:15:42,066
to the Hooker Telescope
at Mount Wilson...

286
00:15:45,361 --> 00:15:49,281
and viewed the evidence
of the expanding universe

287
00:15:49,365 --> 00:15:50,449
through Hubble's telescope.

288
00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:01,627
And then, a week or two
later, he does an interview

289
00:16:01,669 --> 00:16:04,129
with the New York Times
and acknowledges that Hubble

290
00:16:04,213 --> 00:16:06,173
and his colleague
Humason had shown

291
00:16:06,215 --> 00:16:08,133
that the universe is not static.

292
00:16:08,175 --> 00:16:11,512
And later, he acknowledged
that his fine-tuning

293
00:16:11,553 --> 00:16:13,013
of the cosmological constant...

294
00:16:14,932 --> 00:16:16,892
was the greatest blunder
of his scientific career.

295
00:16:27,111 --> 00:16:31,365
BIJAN NEMATI: From
roughly the 1920s till the 60s,

296
00:16:31,448 --> 00:16:33,242
astrophysics
proceeded with a lot

297
00:16:33,325 --> 00:16:36,203
of brilliant people
doing a lot of great work,

298
00:16:36,286 --> 00:16:40,916
but a lot of it was focused
on avoiding the notion

299
00:16:40,999 --> 00:16:41,959
of a beginning.

300
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,547
ROBERT SHELDON: That
view of the universe was debated,

301
00:16:46,630 --> 00:16:49,133
and many people
argued against it.

302
00:16:51,051 --> 00:16:56,056
Fred Hoyle was a famous physicist
who said, "I'm a Democritean.”

303
00:16:56,098 --> 00:16:58,976
He said, "I believe nothing
comes from nothing.”

304
00:16:59,059 --> 00:17:02,020
His argument was there can't
be a beginning to the universe

305
00:17:02,104 --> 00:17:04,314
because that would be
something coming from nothing.

306
00:17:04,398 --> 00:17:06,358
FRED HOYLE: I
don't like the idea

307
00:17:06,442 --> 00:17:14,158
that something is dependent
on a cause that I can never verify.

308
00:17:14,199 --> 00:17:15,784
BIJAN NEMATI:
Hoyle was, in fact,

309
00:17:15,868 --> 00:17:19,663
so opposed to the
notion of a beginning

310
00:17:19,747 --> 00:17:21,457
that I think he was the
one who coined the name

311
00:17:21,540 --> 00:17:23,959
Big Bang as a sort
of a derogatory name.

312
00:17:24,042 --> 00:17:26,670
BRIAN KEATING: Fred Hoyle,
who was, for much of his life,

313
00:17:26,712 --> 00:17:30,048
a secular atheist, he
believed that cosmologists

314
00:17:30,090 --> 00:17:34,887
were being too influenced
by the Genesis 1:1 narrative.

315
00:17:35,929 --> 00:17:37,306
STEPHEN MEYER: And so,
he formulates another model.

316
00:17:37,347 --> 00:17:38,348
It's called the steady state.

317
00:17:39,391 --> 00:17:41,268
He imagines there's
always been matter,

318
00:17:41,310 --> 00:17:44,730
there's always been energy,
there's always been space and time.

319
00:17:44,813 --> 00:17:46,899
The universe is
infinitely old and

320
00:17:46,982 --> 00:17:48,567
has been creating
matter continually.

321
00:17:49,860 --> 00:17:51,570
BRIAN KEATING:
So, in the mid-1900s,

322
00:17:51,653 --> 00:17:55,866
there was really a battle
between two rival cosmologies.

323
00:17:55,908 --> 00:17:58,076
ROBERT SHELDON: Both
theories make predictions,

324
00:17:58,118 --> 00:18:01,914
and Hoyle's prediction was
that no matter how far back

325
00:18:01,997 --> 00:18:04,583
in time you look, it will
look exactly the same.

326
00:18:05,834 --> 00:18:09,004
STEPHEN MEYER: If the universe
was eternal in time and space,

327
00:18:09,087 --> 00:18:11,048
then there was no
beginning and no time

328
00:18:11,131 --> 00:18:14,259
when all of the galactic material
would have been concentrated

329
00:18:14,301 --> 00:18:16,929
into a single, hot, dense point.

330
00:18:16,970 --> 00:18:18,472
But the Big Bang
predicts that there

331
00:18:18,514 --> 00:18:19,640
would have been such a point.

332
00:18:21,683 --> 00:18:24,019
BRIAN KEATING: When
that Big Bang exploded,

333
00:18:24,102 --> 00:18:26,814
the universe was in a
very dense and hot state.

334
00:18:32,861 --> 00:18:34,613
And as it got bigger, it cooled.

335
00:18:35,823 --> 00:18:39,660
And when it cooled far enough,
light was allowed to escape.

336
00:18:42,663 --> 00:18:45,958
SARAH SALVIANDER: So, if
the Big Bang theory was true,

337
00:18:45,999 --> 00:18:48,544
there should be some
evidence of this light in the form

338
00:18:48,627 --> 00:18:53,382
of leftover radiation spread
throughout the universe.

339
00:18:53,465 --> 00:18:55,134
BRIAN KEATING: You
can think of it as a glow,

340
00:18:55,175 --> 00:18:58,512
as a fossil left over from
the creation process.

341
00:19:00,514 --> 00:19:02,099
ROBERT SHELDON:
People looked for this radiation,

342
00:19:02,182 --> 00:19:03,183
couldn't find it.

343
00:19:04,768 --> 00:19:08,230
But then, two Bell Labs
physicists were trying

344
00:19:08,313 --> 00:19:12,651
to create a microwave link
from the ground to a satellite.

345
00:19:14,361 --> 00:19:17,531
They'd point this big horn
antenna at the satellite

346
00:19:17,573 --> 00:19:18,574
and record the data.

347
00:19:21,660 --> 00:19:23,662
Well, they were
getting noise and static

348
00:19:23,745 --> 00:19:24,788
and couldn't explain it.

349
00:19:24,913 --> 00:19:26,498
And wherever they
pointed their horn antenna,

350
00:19:26,540 --> 00:19:28,000
they got the static,
and they said,

351
00:19:28,041 --> 00:19:29,543
"There's something
wrong with our antenna.”

352
00:19:31,169 --> 00:19:33,005
SARAH SALVIANDER: In their
desperation to figure out the source

353
00:19:33,046 --> 00:19:36,508
of this signal, they
thought it might have come

354
00:19:36,550 --> 00:19:39,928
from pigeon droppings
that were on this antenna.

355
00:19:40,012 --> 00:19:41,388
They're scraping it off.

356
00:19:41,471 --> 00:19:42,556
Nothing works.

357
00:19:42,598 --> 00:19:45,726
ROBERT SHELDON: And then,
one of them went to a seminar down

358
00:19:45,767 --> 00:19:48,353
at Princeton by a physicist
named Robert Dickey.

359
00:19:48,437 --> 00:19:50,063
And Robert Dickey
said, "We're looking

360
00:19:50,105 --> 00:19:53,358
for the glow of that
Big Bang radiation.

361
00:19:53,442 --> 00:19:56,695
And today, it would have
cooled down into the microwave.

362
00:19:56,778 --> 00:19:59,823
That would be the wavelength
of light corresponding to that.”

363
00:20:01,783 --> 00:20:03,452
Penzias and Wilson looked
at each other and said,

364
00:20:03,535 --> 00:20:04,536
"I think we found it.”

365
00:20:06,538 --> 00:20:09,541
They wrote up a paper that
they had discovered the radiation

366
00:20:09,583 --> 00:20:13,128
left over from the Big Bang,
and it was such a sensation.

367
00:20:13,211 --> 00:20:16,423
They got the Nobel Prize,
and I would say at that point,

368
00:20:16,465 --> 00:20:19,009
90-some percent of
the physicists all agreed

369
00:20:19,092 --> 00:20:21,386
that the Big Bang model
was the working one.

370
00:20:21,428 --> 00:20:22,429
Hoyle never did.

371
00:20:23,472 --> 00:20:25,974
He insisted that the
steady-state model was better,

372
00:20:26,058 --> 00:20:27,976
and he was going to get
it fixed one of these days.

373
00:20:29,561 --> 00:20:33,440
BIJAN NEMATI: We scientists
have our predispositions.

374
00:20:33,523 --> 00:20:36,151
And in this case, the predisposition
was to avoid a beginning

375
00:20:36,193 --> 00:20:37,444
to the universe.

376
00:20:37,527 --> 00:20:40,572
And that has been going
on for about a century now.

377
00:20:40,656 --> 00:20:46,745
And yet it's as if, you know,
we are being forced to accept,

378
00:20:46,828 --> 00:20:51,541
by the observations, that
the universe is evolving

379
00:20:51,625 --> 00:20:52,626
and it had a beginning.

380
00:21:00,175 --> 00:21:01,969
STEPHEN MEYER:
Now, in the 1960s,

381
00:21:02,010 --> 00:21:05,889
this whole question of the
implication of general relativity

382
00:21:05,973 --> 00:21:08,058
for the beginning of the
universe was revisited.

383
00:21:11,728 --> 00:21:14,314
And it starts with
Stephen Hawking.

384
00:21:14,982 --> 00:21:16,733
[Music]

385
00:21:16,775 --> 00:21:19,236
He's studying in Cambridge.

386
00:21:19,278 --> 00:21:23,115
And in the middle of the
PhD, he is diagnosed with ALS,

387
00:21:23,156 --> 00:21:24,157
Lou Gehrig's disease.

388
00:21:25,534 --> 00:21:28,286
Debilitating
neurological disorder.

389
00:21:28,328 --> 00:21:33,458
He's so discouraged that
he might just quit the PhD,

390
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:37,421
but he's encouraged by people
near him to press on, and he does.

391
00:21:39,006 --> 00:21:40,549
Quite a heroic story, actually.

392
00:21:43,552 --> 00:21:45,429
He's working on
black hole physics.

393
00:21:50,017 --> 00:21:54,062
SARAH SALVIANDER:
Black holes, extremely massive,

394
00:21:54,146 --> 00:21:58,400
but compressed down into an
unimaginably small amount of space.

395
00:22:00,068 --> 00:22:03,780
These things are warping
space and time in ways

396
00:22:03,822 --> 00:22:05,741
that you can't even imagine.

397
00:22:05,824 --> 00:22:07,659
STEPHEN MEYER: It's
causing space around that matter

398
00:22:07,743 --> 00:22:10,328
to curve so tightly that
even light can't get out.

399
00:22:12,414 --> 00:22:15,333
But then, Hawking's
thinking about the history

400
00:22:15,417 --> 00:22:17,753
and origin of the
universe itself.

401
00:22:17,836 --> 00:22:20,464
He realizes that if the
universe is expanding outward

402
00:22:20,505 --> 00:22:22,132
in the forward
direction of time,

403
00:22:22,215 --> 00:22:24,843
then matter is getting
more and more spread out.

404
00:22:28,221 --> 00:22:29,139
And he starts
thinking about, well,

405
00:22:29,222 --> 00:22:30,807
what happens in the
reverse direction of time?

406
00:22:30,891 --> 00:22:35,729
If the matter is more diffused
in the forward direction of time,

407
00:22:35,771 --> 00:22:37,439
it means it's more
concentrated in the reverse

408
00:22:37,481 --> 00:22:38,482
direction of time.

409
00:22:39,858 --> 00:22:42,360
Then, according to Einstein's
theory of general relativity,

410
00:22:42,444 --> 00:22:45,572
the space around matter
should get more tightly curved.

411
00:22:45,655 --> 00:22:49,159
So, as you go back in time,
as matter gets more densely

412
00:22:49,201 --> 00:22:52,454
concentrated, the space
gets more tightly curved,

413
00:22:52,537 --> 00:22:55,457
and you eventually
get to a limiting point

414
00:22:55,540 --> 00:22:58,043
where the matter gets
so densely concentrated

415
00:22:58,126 --> 00:22:59,878
that the space gets
so tightly curved

416
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:01,838
that eventually you
can't go back any further.

417
00:23:03,715 --> 00:23:06,301
And this, Hawking
calls the singularity,

418
00:23:06,384 --> 00:23:09,805
a point of infinite density
and infinitely tight curvature.

419
00:23:09,888 --> 00:23:10,889
[Music]

420
00:23:20,023 --> 00:23:24,277
In his PhD thesis in
1966, Hawking presents

421
00:23:24,361 --> 00:23:26,655
an initial defense of that idea.

422
00:23:26,696 --> 00:23:29,741
He gets incredible
praise from his examiners.

423
00:23:29,825 --> 00:23:32,410
The idea of a
space-time singularity,

424
00:23:32,452 --> 00:23:36,206
a beginning to the universe,
that's a mind-blowing conclusion.

425
00:23:41,086 --> 00:23:42,087
But there's a problem.

426
00:23:44,214 --> 00:23:46,174
FRANK TIPLER: As you're going
back toward the very beginning

427
00:23:46,258 --> 00:23:49,386
of time, the volume of the
universe is going to zero.

428
00:23:51,638 --> 00:23:53,265
There's no space
to put anything.

429
00:23:55,016 --> 00:24:00,897
Zero size is not something
that can exist in space and time.

430
00:24:01,940 --> 00:24:08,113
Rather, the singularity is the
point outside of space and time.

431
00:24:08,196 --> 00:24:10,157
It's not in space and time.

432
00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:17,956
STEPHEN MEYER:
Before the beginning of time,

433
00:24:17,998 --> 00:24:19,291
there's no universe.

434
00:24:19,374 --> 00:24:22,836
The universe comes into
existence out of the singularity.

435
00:24:22,919 --> 00:24:23,753
There is no matter.

436
00:24:23,795 --> 00:24:24,546
There is no space.

437
00:24:24,629 --> 00:24:25,255
There is no time.

438
00:24:25,297 --> 00:24:26,006
There is no energy.

439
00:24:26,089 --> 00:24:28,425
There's no material stuff
there to do the causing.

440
00:24:37,058 --> 00:24:39,227
JAY RICHARDS: Physicist
Robert Dickey said,

441
00:24:39,311 --> 00:24:42,731
"An infinite universe would
relieve us of the necessity

442
00:24:42,772 --> 00:24:45,066
of understanding
the origin of matter

443
00:24:45,108 --> 00:24:47,944
at any finite time in the past.”

444
00:24:48,028 --> 00:24:49,654
Notice that verb, relieve.

445
00:24:49,738 --> 00:24:51,156
That's not a scientific term.

446
00:24:51,198 --> 00:24:52,199
What does Dickey mean?

447
00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:55,660
Well, if the universe
is eternal and infinite,

448
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:59,915
then we don't even have to ask
the question where it came from.

449
00:24:59,998 --> 00:25:03,543
So, if an infinite universe
relieves us of the necessity,

450
00:25:03,627 --> 00:25:05,045
what does a finite universe do?

451
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,804
TIMOTHY MCGREW: We
now know the universe began

452
00:25:14,888 --> 00:25:20,685
to exist finitely long
ago, but whatever begins

453
00:25:20,769 --> 00:25:24,314
to exist is caused to
exist by something else.

454
00:25:26,316 --> 00:25:28,109
STEPHEN MEYER: Now,
because we're talking about the origin

455
00:25:28,151 --> 00:25:31,905
of the universe itself, by which
we mean the origin of matter,

456
00:25:31,988 --> 00:25:35,200
energy, space, and
time, any entity capable

457
00:25:35,242 --> 00:25:39,204
of causing the universe to come
into existence must be external

458
00:25:39,246 --> 00:25:42,457
to or separate from
the universe itself.

459
00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:44,960
It must exist
independently of matter

460
00:25:45,043 --> 00:25:46,628
and transcend space and time.

461
00:25:48,546 --> 00:25:50,757
JAY RICHARDS: And so,
whatever explains the finite

462
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,385
physical universe must
be itself non-physical.

463
00:25:53,426 --> 00:25:56,012
Whatever explains
the finite material

464
00:25:56,096 --> 00:25:58,765
universe must
itself be immaterial...

465
00:26:00,475 --> 00:26:06,273
to get in this way to the
philosophical stopping point

466
00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:07,357
of the first cause.

467
00:26:17,450 --> 00:26:18,910
STEPHEN MEYER: I
first witnessed astronomers

468
00:26:18,994 --> 00:26:22,414
and cosmologists wrestling
with this problem of the first cause

469
00:26:22,497 --> 00:26:24,582
at a conference
early in my career.

470
00:26:24,666 --> 00:26:26,584
SPEAKER: It may not
be the ultimate truth.

471
00:26:26,668 --> 00:26:28,128
STEPHEN MEYER:
At that conference,

472
00:26:28,211 --> 00:26:31,464
I encountered
the work of a great

473
00:26:31,506 --> 00:26:34,384
cosmologist named Allan Sandage.

474
00:26:34,467 --> 00:26:36,553
He was well known
for being a hard-bitten

475
00:26:36,636 --> 00:26:38,555
scientific materialist.

476
00:26:38,638 --> 00:26:40,682
But he'd worked closely
with Edwin Hubble

477
00:26:40,724 --> 00:26:43,351
on verifying the
expansion of the universe

478
00:26:43,435 --> 00:26:44,561
in all quadrants of the sky.

479
00:26:46,354 --> 00:26:48,898
And at this conference,
he announced

480
00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:52,402
that he had come
to a theistic belief,

481
00:26:52,485 --> 00:26:56,948
not in spite of, but because
of the scientific discoveries

482
00:26:56,990 --> 00:27:00,577
concerning the origin of the
universe and its fine tuning.

483
00:27:00,618 --> 00:27:03,787
And I can remember him looking
into the camera and saying--

484
00:27:03,788 --> 00:27:06,708
ALLAN SANDAGE: Here
is evidence for what can only

485
00:27:06,791 --> 00:27:09,544
be described as a
supernatural event.

486
00:27:09,627 --> 00:27:12,464
STEPHEN MEYER:
Super natural event.

487
00:27:12,505 --> 00:27:13,882
And there was a
kind of a beat, a pause

488
00:27:13,965 --> 00:27:15,717
between the words
super and natural.

489
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,802
ALLAN SANDAGE: There's
no way that this could have been

490
00:27:17,844 --> 00:27:21,431
predicted within the realm
of physics as we know it.

491
00:27:30,273 --> 00:27:31,775
STEPHEN MEYER: Another
astronomer at the conference

492
00:27:31,816 --> 00:27:34,277
who was particularly
distressed by the problem

493
00:27:34,361 --> 00:27:36,571
of the first cause
was Robert Jastrow.

494
00:27:36,654 --> 00:27:39,949
ROBERT JASTROW: National
Aeronautics and Space Administration.

495
00:27:39,991 --> 00:27:41,326
STEPHEN MEYER:
Though he was an agnostic,

496
00:27:41,409 --> 00:27:43,328
he had recently
published a book called

497
00:27:43,411 --> 00:27:44,579
"God and the Astronomers".

498
00:27:46,289 --> 00:27:47,916
Later, he did a
number of interviews

499
00:27:47,999 --> 00:27:50,168
about the conclusion
of his book.

500
00:27:50,210 --> 00:27:51,503
ROBERT JASTROW: One
of the things that interests me

501
00:27:51,586 --> 00:27:54,631
that I find most puzzling
in this astronomy we've

502
00:27:54,714 --> 00:27:57,550
been discussing is the fact
that there was a beginning.

503
00:27:59,719 --> 00:28:00,929
The mystery of creation.

504
00:28:03,348 --> 00:28:05,100
If there were no beginning,
we wouldn't have to ask

505
00:28:05,141 --> 00:28:06,434
what happened
before the beginning.

506
00:28:07,769 --> 00:28:10,522
And we wouldn't have to worry
about who created the universe.

507
00:28:10,563 --> 00:28:11,815
But the fact the universe sprang

508
00:28:11,898 --> 00:28:15,485
into being at a definite moment
seems to me theological...

509
00:28:16,820 --> 00:28:19,697
and nothing that could be
answered within science.

510
00:28:19,739 --> 00:28:22,117
SPEAKER: There always
has to be a cause for any effect,

511
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,663
and then that cause becomes
an effect of a cause underlying it.

512
00:28:26,704 --> 00:28:28,164
But in the case of the Big Bang,

513
00:28:28,206 --> 00:28:30,542
that calls for an
uncreated creator,

514
00:28:30,625 --> 00:28:32,794
and that would answer to
some people's definition of a god.

515
00:28:35,255 --> 00:28:37,173
ROBERT JASTROW: I'm
an agnostic, not a believer,

516
00:28:37,257 --> 00:28:38,258
but not an atheist.

517
00:28:40,885 --> 00:28:45,974
Suppose you try to get away
from the theological explanation.

518
00:28:46,057 --> 00:28:48,476
Is there something
else that we can imagine

519
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,729
that would lay these
questions to rest?

520
00:28:51,813 --> 00:28:52,814
Some--

521
00:28:53,982 --> 00:28:55,024
I can't see it.

522
00:29:01,990 --> 00:29:07,370
ROBERT SHELDON: The last
paragraph of Jastrow's book says

523
00:29:07,412 --> 00:29:09,914
that the natural
scientist or the physicist

524
00:29:09,956 --> 00:29:11,791
has scaled the
peak of ignorance.

525
00:29:11,875 --> 00:29:14,377
As he pulls himself
over the last boulder,

526
00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:16,671
he finds the philosophers
and the theologians

527
00:29:16,754 --> 00:29:17,922
sitting there waiting for him.

528
00:29:19,549 --> 00:29:23,303
The point Jastrow is making
is no scientist wanted there

529
00:29:23,386 --> 00:29:25,180
to be a creation
to the universe.

530
00:29:25,263 --> 00:29:27,015
He wanted it to be eternal.

531
00:29:27,098 --> 00:29:30,018
But that was inevitably
where science was taking us

532
00:29:30,059 --> 00:29:32,395
to, that point where
we had to acknowledge

533
00:29:32,479 --> 00:29:33,480
there was a beginning.

534
00:29:42,614 --> 00:29:44,699
STEPHEN MEYER:
Hawking proves the singularity,

535
00:29:45,867 --> 00:29:48,453
doesn't much like
its implications,

536
00:29:48,495 --> 00:29:51,247
because it seems to point
to a kind of creation event.

537
00:29:51,289 --> 00:29:54,792
So, he spent much of the
rest of his career attempting

538
00:29:54,876 --> 00:29:58,213
to circumvent the
conclusion of his own proof.

539
00:29:58,296 --> 00:30:00,882
And in the process, he
developed these quantum

540
00:30:00,965 --> 00:30:04,010
cosmological ideas
through a tiny loophole.

541
00:30:07,472 --> 00:30:09,224
Hawking and other
physicists recognize

542
00:30:09,265 --> 00:30:14,646
that they can only back
extrapolate to almost the singularity.

543
00:30:14,729 --> 00:30:18,024
They can get to
1E-43 of a second

544
00:30:18,107 --> 00:30:19,275
after the beginning
of the universe.

545
00:30:20,735 --> 00:30:23,279
To say it's a blink of an
eye is a huge exaggeration.

546
00:30:25,490 --> 00:30:27,534
Before that time, they thought
gravity might have worked

547
00:30:27,575 --> 00:30:30,370
differently, according
to quantum mechanics,

548
00:30:30,453 --> 00:30:34,374
the physics that applies
to the tiny subatomic realm.

549
00:30:34,457 --> 00:30:38,044
So, they attempted to develop
an alternative cosmological model

550
00:30:38,127 --> 00:30:40,505
that they called
quantum cosmology.

551
00:30:43,758 --> 00:30:48,096
The hope among some of those
cosmologists is that this model

552
00:30:48,179 --> 00:30:51,558
would eliminate the need
for a beginning of the universe

553
00:30:51,641 --> 00:30:54,269
or would somehow explain
the origin of the universe

554
00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:57,272
without any need to
posit an external creator.

555
00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:03,778
JOHN LENNOX: I can recall
Stephen Hawking at Cambridge,

556
00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:07,198
just when the beginnings
of Motor Neurone Disease

557
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,786
were being seen in
his difficulty in walking.

558
00:31:11,869 --> 00:31:16,916
When I was given a pre-
publication edition of his book,

559
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,879
"The Grand Design", I
was quite amazed to come

560
00:31:21,963 --> 00:31:24,757
across what appears to
be a central statement.

561
00:31:26,509 --> 00:31:30,096
STEPHEN HAWKING: Because
there are laws, such as gravity,

562
00:31:30,138 --> 00:31:34,892
the universe can and will
create itself from nothing.

563
00:31:37,979 --> 00:31:40,315
JOHN LENNOX: I had an
immediate visceral reaction.

564
00:31:40,356 --> 00:31:42,567
What could that possibly mean?

565
00:31:44,402 --> 00:31:48,114
Because there is a
law such as gravity,

566
00:31:48,197 --> 00:31:50,408
that is because
there is something,

567
00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:53,119
the universe can
create itself from nothing.

568
00:31:53,202 --> 00:31:56,623
And that appears to me
to be a flat contradiction.

569
00:31:56,706 --> 00:31:59,375
Nothing is certainly
not nothing.

570
00:32:00,793 --> 00:32:02,045
STEPHEN MEYER: Hawking
is saying that the universe

571
00:32:02,086 --> 00:32:04,547
has come out of some
sort of pre-existing laws

572
00:32:04,631 --> 00:32:07,675
of physics that are expressed
as mathematical equations.

573
00:32:10,053 --> 00:32:14,015
The implication of this is
that out of math comes matter,

574
00:32:14,057 --> 00:32:15,183
space, time, and energy.

575
00:32:18,186 --> 00:32:20,563
But these mathematical
equations don't describe anything

576
00:32:20,647 --> 00:32:22,899
yet because there is no
universe yet to describe.

577
00:32:24,859 --> 00:32:26,903
Math has no causal
power by itself.

578
00:32:29,989 --> 00:32:32,533
And one of the developers
of quantum cosmology,

579
00:32:32,575 --> 00:32:35,203
the Russian physicist
Alexander Volinkin,

580
00:32:35,286 --> 00:32:38,748
has reflected deeply on
this kind of paradoxical result.

581
00:32:38,790 --> 00:32:41,250
He says, "In the
absence of space, time,

582
00:32:41,292 --> 00:32:45,129
and matter, what tablets could
these laws be written upon?”

583
00:32:46,798 --> 00:32:49,092
Hawking was sensitive
to the same concern.

584
00:32:49,175 --> 00:32:52,720
He said, "What is it that
breathes fire into the equations

585
00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:54,597
and makes a universe
for them to describe?”

586
00:32:56,057 --> 00:32:59,977
In our experience,
math is conceptual.

587
00:33:00,061 --> 00:33:01,604
It exists in a mind.

588
00:33:01,688 --> 00:33:05,024
So, if we're saying the material
universe came out of a set

589
00:33:05,108 --> 00:33:07,777
of mathematical equations,
are we really saying

590
00:33:07,860 --> 00:33:10,279
that the material universe
came out of a mind?

591
00:33:10,363 --> 00:33:11,364
[Music]

592
00:33:27,672 --> 00:33:30,717
JAY RICHARDS: The basic idea
of fine-tuning is that the universe

593
00:33:30,758 --> 00:33:34,512
is just so, that its properties,
the initial conditions,

594
00:33:34,554 --> 00:33:38,891
the so-called constants of
physics, the laws of nature,

595
00:33:38,933 --> 00:33:41,936
rest on a razor's edge so that
if they were slightly different

596
00:33:42,019 --> 00:33:43,521
than they are in
the actual universe,

597
00:33:44,731 --> 00:33:46,107
the universe would
not be habitable.

598
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:47,984
That is, it would not
be compatible with life.

599
00:33:48,067 --> 00:33:50,153
STEPHEN MEYER: Physicist
Sir John Polkinghorne used

600
00:33:50,194 --> 00:33:52,280
to have an excellent
visual illustration

601
00:33:52,321 --> 00:33:54,240
to convey the idea
of the fine-tuning.

602
00:33:54,323 --> 00:33:56,576
He used to ask people
in the audience to imagine

603
00:33:56,659 --> 00:33:58,995
that they were on a
spaceship that had docked

604
00:33:59,036 --> 00:34:00,163
at a space station.

605
00:34:01,414 --> 00:34:03,875
And upon entrance
to the space station,

606
00:34:03,958 --> 00:34:05,918
they discovered
there was a great room

607
00:34:06,002 --> 00:34:09,380
with a huge universe-creating
machine inside.

608
00:34:09,464 --> 00:34:11,924
And it had dials and
knobs and sliders,

609
00:34:11,966 --> 00:34:15,094
each representing one of the
fundamental physical parameters,

610
00:34:15,178 --> 00:34:19,932
where each one of the dials
was set to a very precise value.

611
00:34:19,974 --> 00:34:21,559
Imagine what would
happen if you changed one

612
00:34:21,642 --> 00:34:22,977
of the dials one
click this way or

613
00:34:23,060 --> 00:34:25,480
that, or move a slider
one notch this way or

614
00:34:25,563 --> 00:34:28,858
that, that life in the
universe would suddenly

615
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:29,901
become impossible.

616
00:34:32,487 --> 00:34:35,406
But it was none other than
Fred Hoyle who first discovered

617
00:34:35,448 --> 00:34:38,076
that our universe is
actually fine-tuned for life.

618
00:34:46,250 --> 00:34:50,254
FRED HOYLE: I'm going to
tell you today a story which,

619
00:34:50,338 --> 00:34:53,758
if you hear it, may
seem very strange to you.

620
00:34:55,009 --> 00:34:56,636
STEPHEN MEYER:
Hoyle was trying to show,

621
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,514
as part of his work on the
steady-state cosmology,

622
00:34:59,555 --> 00:35:01,557
where carbon could
have come from.

623
00:35:02,683 --> 00:35:05,686
FRED HOYLE: And certainly it
would have seemed strange to me,

624
00:35:05,770 --> 00:35:09,065
some 20 years ago, when the path

625
00:35:09,106 --> 00:35:13,569
which led to this work
began to be followed.

626
00:35:15,571 --> 00:35:18,991
STEPHEN MEYER: When
he himself made a discovery

627
00:35:19,075 --> 00:35:21,452
that shook his
personal philosophy.

628
00:35:22,954 --> 00:35:25,456
FRED HOYLE: So, let me
begin then without more ado.

629
00:35:26,707 --> 00:35:28,543
STEPHEN MEYER: So, Hoyle
is trying to explain the abundance

630
00:35:28,626 --> 00:35:30,962
of carbon in the universe
because he recognized

631
00:35:31,003 --> 00:35:33,005
that you needed
carbon to build life,

632
00:35:33,047 --> 00:35:34,507
but he can't figure
out for the life

633
00:35:34,549 --> 00:35:36,300
of him how it could
have been built.

634
00:35:36,342 --> 00:35:39,178
BRIAN KEATING: Hoyle reasoned
that the Big Bang couldn't do it,

635
00:35:39,262 --> 00:35:41,639
the Quasi-Steady State
universe couldn't do it,

636
00:35:41,681 --> 00:35:43,224
and the only other
laboratories for doing

637
00:35:43,307 --> 00:35:45,726
so were in the bellies of stars.

638
00:35:51,941 --> 00:35:55,278
DAVID SNOKE: The understanding
now is that all of the elements

639
00:35:55,361 --> 00:35:58,823
that we have, carbon,
oxygen, so on, were synthesized

640
00:35:58,906 --> 00:35:59,907
inside of stars.

641
00:36:03,202 --> 00:36:04,912
When that star
exploded, goes supernova,

642
00:36:04,996 --> 00:36:07,456
then that gets spread
throughout the universe.

643
00:36:07,498 --> 00:36:09,542
Then, that gets to be
re-accumulated back

644
00:36:09,625 --> 00:36:11,043
into new stars and planets.

645
00:36:13,921 --> 00:36:15,381
STEPHEN MEYER: He
developed numerous ideas

646
00:36:15,464 --> 00:36:19,218
about how carbon might form
from simpler atoms inside stars.

647
00:36:19,302 --> 00:36:21,512
But for various reasons,
none of them would work.

648
00:36:22,847 --> 00:36:25,725
But then, he comes up with a
theory that works with the physics.

649
00:36:25,766 --> 00:36:28,227
His theory envisions
two elements,

650
00:36:28,269 --> 00:36:30,688
beryllium with an
atomic weight of eight

651
00:36:30,771 --> 00:36:33,441
and helium with an
atomic weight of four,

652
00:36:33,482 --> 00:36:36,903
combining to make carbon
with an atomic weight of 12.

653
00:36:36,986 --> 00:36:37,987
But there's a catch.

654
00:36:42,783 --> 00:36:45,912
When he did the math, the
resulting carbon would have a higher

655
00:36:45,995 --> 00:36:48,414
energy state than
the ordinary carbon

656
00:36:48,497 --> 00:36:51,542
that we have around
us in our solar system.

657
00:36:53,044 --> 00:36:55,880
And this higher energy version
of carbon would have to exist

658
00:36:55,963 --> 00:36:58,257
for beryllium and
helium to come together

659
00:36:58,341 --> 00:36:59,800
to form carbon
in the first place.

660
00:37:02,970 --> 00:37:05,806
LUKE BARNES: So, if you
have a wine glass and you flick it,

661
00:37:08,476 --> 00:37:10,978
it will have a certain
note that it puts out there,

662
00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:12,647
a certain frequency.

663
00:37:12,688 --> 00:37:16,317
If I sing that frequency
back at the wine glass,

664
00:37:16,359 --> 00:37:21,030
it will absorb that sound
much more effectively than

665
00:37:21,072 --> 00:37:24,158
if I just sing some other
random note at the wine glass.

666
00:37:26,911 --> 00:37:31,415
There's a way that a
carbon nucleus could sing,

667
00:37:31,457 --> 00:37:33,960
could wobble
around, could vibrate

668
00:37:34,043 --> 00:37:36,170
and oscillate in
just the right way...

669
00:37:38,547 --> 00:37:42,093
that it would live long enough
to sort of hold itself together

670
00:37:42,134 --> 00:37:46,555
in time to make a stable carbon
nucleus rather than a couple

671
00:37:46,639 --> 00:37:48,224
of things falling apart.

672
00:37:48,307 --> 00:37:51,394
Without this singing
frequency in a carbon atom,

673
00:37:53,145 --> 00:37:54,438
the process just won't work.

674
00:37:54,522 --> 00:37:55,523
[Music]

675
00:37:57,483 --> 00:37:59,360
STEPHEN MEYER: Hoyle
realized that there must be a version

676
00:37:59,402 --> 00:38:02,822
of the carbon atom capable of
vibrating at a precise frequency

677
00:38:02,905 --> 00:38:05,449
that would allow it to
absorb the combined energies

678
00:38:05,491 --> 00:38:08,536
of the beryllium and helium
so that carbon could form.

679
00:38:09,620 --> 00:38:12,289
After which time, it would settle
into the stable form of carbon

680
00:38:12,373 --> 00:38:13,791
that we see all around us today.

681
00:38:15,418 --> 00:38:19,547
LUKE BARNES: Now, what
Hoyle did was to say, "All right, well,

682
00:38:19,630 --> 00:38:22,466
if that's the way that carbon's
got to be made in the universe,

683
00:38:23,843 --> 00:38:27,138
carbon better sing at
just this energy level,

684
00:38:27,179 --> 00:38:29,015
otherwise this whole
thing's not gonna work.”

685
00:38:30,891 --> 00:38:34,395
STEPHEN MEYER: So, he
contracted with a physicist out

686
00:38:34,478 --> 00:38:36,188
at Caltech named Willie Fowler.

687
00:38:37,815 --> 00:38:40,276
WILLIE FOWLER: So,
Hoyle was invited to Caltech

688
00:38:40,359 --> 00:38:42,820
to give a lecture on
the steady state theory.

689
00:38:43,821 --> 00:38:47,867
The next day, he
came into the laboratory

690
00:38:47,950 --> 00:38:51,495
and began asking us
questions about the energy levels

691
00:38:51,537 --> 00:38:52,830
of the carbon-12 nucleus.

692
00:38:53,998 --> 00:38:57,293
And we kind of gave
him the brush off.

693
00:38:58,502 --> 00:39:00,880
"Get away from us, young fellow.

694
00:39:00,963 --> 00:39:02,798
You bother us.”

695
00:39:02,882 --> 00:39:04,216
See, we didn't know
him all that well.

696
00:39:04,300 --> 00:39:06,719
And there was this funny
little man who thought

697
00:39:06,802 --> 00:39:08,929
that we should stop
all this important work

698
00:39:09,013 --> 00:39:11,432
that we were doing
otherwise and look for this.

699
00:39:12,933 --> 00:39:16,562
He convinced Ward
Whaling, who was an assistant

700
00:39:16,604 --> 00:39:20,399
or associate professor at
that time, to give it a whirl.

701
00:39:20,483 --> 00:39:21,567
And sure enough...

702
00:39:24,236 --> 00:39:29,450
the energy he got was almost
exactly what Hoyle had predicted.

703
00:39:31,035 --> 00:39:33,370
It was really quite
a tour de force

704
00:39:33,454 --> 00:39:35,664
that a man had
walked into the lab,

705
00:39:35,706 --> 00:39:38,501
predicted the existence
of an excited state

706
00:39:38,542 --> 00:39:40,961
of a nucleus from
astrophysical arguments.

707
00:39:42,338 --> 00:39:44,298
We then took
Hoyle very seriously.

708
00:39:45,633 --> 00:39:47,802
STEPHEN MEYER: That
confirmed Hoyle's suspicion

709
00:39:47,885 --> 00:39:49,428
about how carbon
might have been made,

710
00:39:49,470 --> 00:39:51,639
but it turned out to be
the tip of the iceberg

711
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:52,681
of a deeper problem.

712
00:39:54,308 --> 00:39:55,142
LUKE BARNES: The
fact that carbon sings

713
00:39:55,184 --> 00:39:59,522
at just this energy level itself
depends on other properties.

714
00:39:59,563 --> 00:40:01,816
STEPHEN MEYER: The
fine-tuning of the energy levels

715
00:40:01,857 --> 00:40:05,486
was the whole cascading effect
of other fine-tuning parameters

716
00:40:05,528 --> 00:40:07,196
that were discovered
that had to be just right.

717
00:40:11,117 --> 00:40:13,577
Each one of these
different parameters falls

718
00:40:13,661 --> 00:40:15,162
within a very narrow tolerance.

719
00:40:16,247 --> 00:40:18,541
SPEAKER: We can
put fairly precise values

720
00:40:18,624 --> 00:40:20,876
on how finely tuned
they have to be.

721
00:40:20,918 --> 00:40:24,171
The probability of the strength
of gravity being just right,

722
00:40:24,255 --> 00:40:27,466
one part in 10 to
the power of 35.

723
00:40:27,508 --> 00:40:30,302
SPEAKER: The odds of the
weight of a proton to an electron.

724
00:40:30,344 --> 00:40:31,303
SPEAKER: One part in 1,000.

725
00:40:31,345 --> 00:40:33,222
SPEAKER: The ratio between
the gravitational attraction

726
00:40:33,305 --> 00:40:34,390
and the electromagnetic
attraction.

727
00:40:34,473 --> 00:40:36,183
SPEAKER: One part
in 10 to the power of 4.

728
00:40:36,267 --> 00:40:37,726
SPEAKER: The
gravitational force compared

729
00:40:37,810 --> 00:40:38,727
with the weak nuclear force.

730
00:40:38,811 --> 00:40:39,937
SPEAKER: One part
in 10 to the 10,000.

731
00:40:40,020 --> 00:40:41,939
SPEAKER: One part
in 10 to the 21st power.

732
00:40:42,022 --> 00:40:44,400
SPEAKER: Initial expansion
rate of the universe.

733
00:40:44,483 --> 00:40:45,693
SPEAKER: One
part in 10 to the 17.

734
00:40:45,734 --> 00:40:47,486
STEPHEN MEYER: Not too
strong, not too weak, not too fast,

735
00:40:47,570 --> 00:40:50,656
not too slow, not too
heavy, not too light.

736
00:40:50,739 --> 00:40:52,616
Everything's got
to be just right.

737
00:40:52,700 --> 00:40:53,784
The Goldilocks universe.

738
00:40:56,912 --> 00:40:58,664
JAY RICHARDS: It's not just
that life would be different or

739
00:40:58,747 --> 00:40:59,790
that history would be different,

740
00:40:59,832 --> 00:41:01,792
but that the universe
would not be compatible

741
00:41:01,876 --> 00:41:04,461
with any sort of
chemically based life.

742
00:41:04,545 --> 00:41:07,006
STEPHEN MEYER: The
probability of getting these specific

743
00:41:07,047 --> 00:41:10,134
parameters right is
infinitesimally small.

744
00:41:12,636 --> 00:41:14,054
FRED HOYLE:
Unless it's also claimed

745
00:41:14,138 --> 00:41:19,268
that instruction happens
by sort of divine providence,

746
00:41:21,228 --> 00:41:24,732
ex machina, to be just such.

747
00:41:27,526 --> 00:41:30,696
I felt obliged to take
seriously the proposition

748
00:41:30,779 --> 00:41:33,991
that life is a cosmic
phenomenon.

749
00:41:34,033 --> 00:41:35,910
STEPHEN MEYER: By
a cosmic phenomenon,

750
00:41:35,993 --> 00:41:39,205
Hoyle meant that life in the
universe was a consequence

751
00:41:39,288 --> 00:41:42,416
of the precise fine-tuning
of the physical parameters

752
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:43,626
of the entire universe.

753
00:41:50,758 --> 00:41:54,094
FRED HOYLE: So, the concept
of life as a cosmic phenomenon,

754
00:41:54,178 --> 00:41:57,139
if it's correct, should
have many consequences.

755
00:42:01,936 --> 00:42:05,314
The question then was
what does one do about it?

756
00:42:09,568 --> 00:42:11,654
STEPHEN MEYER: And at
the end of this investigation,

757
00:42:11,737 --> 00:42:12,738
Hoyle shifted.

758
00:42:14,531 --> 00:42:19,328
And he attributes his conversion
from an aggressive form

759
00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:22,498
of scientific atheism
to affirming some kind

760
00:42:22,539 --> 00:42:24,667
of intelligent design
behind the universe,

761
00:42:24,708 --> 00:42:26,335
to his discovery,
his own discovery

762
00:42:26,377 --> 00:42:27,544
of these fine-tuning parameters.

763
00:42:29,338 --> 00:42:32,007
He's later quoted as saying that
a common-sense interpretation

764
00:42:32,091 --> 00:42:35,094
of the evidence suggests that
a super-intellect has monkeyed

765
00:42:35,135 --> 00:42:37,930
with physics and chemistry
to make life possible.

766
00:42:37,972 --> 00:42:39,974
[Music]

767
00:42:56,740 --> 00:42:57,449
LUKE BARNES:
Think of it like this.

768
00:42:57,533 --> 00:43:00,160
Suppose that I'm a detective
arriving on the scene of a crime.

769
00:43:00,244 --> 00:43:03,455
I'm at a bank, and
there's been a heist, OK?

770
00:43:03,539 --> 00:43:06,834
The safe is open,
all the money is gone,

771
00:43:06,917 --> 00:43:09,920
and I say, "All right, let's
have a look at security footage.”

772
00:43:11,046 --> 00:43:13,632
And I'm watching
on the little screen,

773
00:43:13,716 --> 00:43:18,053
and the burglars come in,
and they walk up to the safe,

774
00:43:18,137 --> 00:43:23,017
and there is a 12-digit
code, and they walk up

775
00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:26,270
and punch in the correct code.

776
00:43:26,353 --> 00:43:28,564
Opens up, and off they go.

777
00:43:28,647 --> 00:43:30,482
Here's two possible
explanations.

778
00:43:30,566 --> 00:43:34,403
Maybe these are
really lucky robbers,

779
00:43:34,445 --> 00:43:38,032
but they just guess the first
12-digit code that comes to mind,

780
00:43:38,115 --> 00:43:39,575
and hey presto,
they take the money.

781
00:43:40,868 --> 00:43:42,494
Here's another option.

782
00:43:42,578 --> 00:43:44,537
It's an inside job.

783
00:43:44,538 --> 00:43:47,291
Someone who already
knew the code told

784
00:43:47,374 --> 00:43:48,751
the robbers what the code is.

785
00:43:50,002 --> 00:43:55,215
Let's pause the video just as
the lead thief puts his finger up

786
00:43:55,299 --> 00:43:56,550
in order to put the code in.

787
00:43:57,885 --> 00:44:00,346
What would we expect
to happen according

788
00:44:00,387 --> 00:44:04,058
to the first hypothesis,
the they got lucky?

789
00:44:04,141 --> 00:44:07,144
Well, if they're just
guessing the code,

790
00:44:07,227 --> 00:44:09,355
then we'd expect them
to put in the wrong code.

791
00:44:10,731 --> 00:44:12,775
We can't really predict
what code you would put in,

792
00:44:12,858 --> 00:44:14,693
but we can predict
with a high degree

793
00:44:14,777 --> 00:44:16,570
of certainty you put
in the wrong one.

794
00:44:16,612 --> 00:44:19,073
And so, our expectation
there that naturally forms

795
00:44:19,156 --> 00:44:22,659
from that scenario doesn't
match with what actually happens.

796
00:44:24,119 --> 00:44:27,206
On the other hand, if we
knew it was an inside job

797
00:44:28,290 --> 00:44:31,627
and we stopped the video
just before they put in the code,

798
00:44:31,668 --> 00:44:34,004
we would expect them
to put in the right code

799
00:44:34,088 --> 00:44:35,089
and get into the vault.

800
00:44:36,173 --> 00:44:38,384
STEPHEN MEYER: It's
possible by random means

801
00:44:38,467 --> 00:44:40,386
that some process
would have stumbled

802
00:44:40,427 --> 00:44:42,471
on exactly the parameters needed

803
00:44:42,554 --> 00:44:44,681
to create a
life-friendly universe.

804
00:44:44,765 --> 00:44:46,934
But our overwhelming
expectation,

805
00:44:46,975 --> 00:44:49,937
if we consider the odds,
is that without guidance,

806
00:44:49,978 --> 00:44:52,439
we would get a
life-unfriendly universe.

807
00:44:52,481 --> 00:44:54,441
But that's not the kind
of universe we see.

808
00:44:55,901 --> 00:44:59,029
Instead, we see the kind
of universe we would expect

809
00:44:59,113 --> 00:45:01,573
if it had been
intentionally set up for life,

810
00:45:01,698 --> 00:45:03,701
suggesting that it was intended.

811
00:45:03,784 --> 00:45:06,203
Fine-tuning
implies a fine-tuner.

812
00:45:11,542 --> 00:45:13,252
JAY RICHARDS: But there's
another type of fine-tuning.

813
00:45:17,047 --> 00:45:19,425
And that's the fine-tuning
of the initial arrangement

814
00:45:19,508 --> 00:45:21,927
of matter at the very
beginning of the universe.

815
00:45:24,221 --> 00:45:27,766
If you thought the idea of a Big
Bang was one of order emerging

816
00:45:27,808 --> 00:45:30,310
from chaos, get
that out of your mind.

817
00:45:30,394 --> 00:45:32,146
It's exactly the opposite.

818
00:45:32,187 --> 00:45:35,399
What we have is
an initial moment

819
00:45:35,482 --> 00:45:38,527
of exquisite
precision and order.

820
00:45:39,945 --> 00:45:41,613
LUKE BARNES: One of the
remarkable things about the universe we

821
00:45:41,697 --> 00:45:47,286
see around us is there's a
direction, so to speak, of time.

822
00:45:47,369 --> 00:45:50,247
This fact that
processes go one way

823
00:45:50,289 --> 00:45:54,084
but not the other is captured
in a physical quantity called

824
00:45:54,126 --> 00:45:57,754
entropy, which very roughly,
in a sort of hand-wavy way,

825
00:45:57,796 --> 00:46:00,466
measures the amount
of disorder in a system.

826
00:46:01,508 --> 00:46:02,634
BRIAN KEATING: The more chaotic,

827
00:46:02,676 --> 00:46:05,554
the more random the
distribution, the higher the entropy.

828
00:46:05,637 --> 00:46:08,724
The more ordered the
system, the lower the entropy.

829
00:46:08,807 --> 00:46:11,393
You have a glass of coffee,
and you have a glass of milk.

830
00:46:12,895 --> 00:46:13,896
It's highly ordered.

831
00:46:15,147 --> 00:46:16,106
Then, you mix them together.

832
00:46:16,190 --> 00:46:19,735
They're completely
disordered and random.

833
00:46:21,778 --> 00:46:26,450
We see things happening
seemingly only in a way

834
00:46:26,533 --> 00:46:27,826
that entropy increases.

835
00:46:30,954 --> 00:46:34,458
LUKE BARNES: No one has
ever put a spoon into coffee

836
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:37,836
and stirred it and separated
the milk out from the coffee.

837
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:38,879
Never happened.

838
00:46:39,963 --> 00:46:41,173
What's going on
with all of this?

839
00:46:43,509 --> 00:46:46,261
DAVID SNOKE: Since entropy
is increasing continuously,

840
00:46:46,345 --> 00:46:48,472
that means that if
we go into the past,

841
00:46:48,514 --> 00:46:50,307
entropy had to be decreasing.

842
00:46:51,558 --> 00:46:53,894
JAY RICHARDS: To allow
things to be this orderly now,

843
00:46:55,187 --> 00:46:58,273
how orderly must the universe
have been at the beginning?

844
00:47:06,073 --> 00:47:08,075
LUKE BARNES: This is where
a very interesting argument

845
00:47:08,158 --> 00:47:10,202
from Roger Penrose comes in.

846
00:47:10,285 --> 00:47:12,287
What Penrose worked out was, OK,

847
00:47:12,329 --> 00:47:14,206
if we consider the
full set of possibilities

848
00:47:14,289 --> 00:47:15,874
for the way you
could start a universe,

849
00:47:17,334 --> 00:47:21,588
our sort of universe is an
extraordinarily small piece

850
00:47:21,672 --> 00:47:23,549
of that set of possibilities.

851
00:47:23,632 --> 00:47:25,259
STEPHEN MEYER: He has calculated

852
00:47:25,342 --> 00:47:28,887
that initial entropy
fine-tuning as one chance

853
00:47:28,971 --> 00:47:33,934
in 10 to the 10th power
raised again to the 123rd power.

854
00:47:34,017 --> 00:47:36,395
It's called a
hyper-exponential number.

855
00:47:38,689 --> 00:47:40,107
LUKE BARNES: What that's
telling us is there's something

856
00:47:40,148 --> 00:47:43,569
remarkably special about
the start of our universe.

857
00:47:46,655 --> 00:47:51,118
There has to be something
about the arrangement of the stuff,

858
00:47:51,201 --> 00:47:55,163
whatever the stuff was,
very early in the universe,

859
00:47:55,289 --> 00:47:56,623
which is not the typical way you

860
00:47:56,707 --> 00:47:58,292
would expect a
universe to start.

861
00:48:00,544 --> 00:48:02,087
STEPHEN MEYER: You could
understand this by analogy.

862
00:48:02,170 --> 00:48:04,548
In the old days, when civil
engineers were building a tunnel

863
00:48:04,631 --> 00:48:08,343
through a mountainside, they
would configure a charge just right

864
00:48:08,427 --> 00:48:11,263
to make sure that the
blast removed the rock

865
00:48:11,346 --> 00:48:13,307
where they wanted
it to be removed.

866
00:48:13,348 --> 00:48:16,560
And very small adjustments
in the initial positioning

867
00:48:16,643 --> 00:48:19,771
of those explosive charges
would make very big differences

868
00:48:19,813 --> 00:48:22,566
in where the hole appeared
in the mountainside.

869
00:48:22,691 --> 00:48:24,818
Analogously, that's what's
going on with the fine-tuning

870
00:48:24,860 --> 00:48:26,153
of the initial entropy
of the universe.

871
00:48:27,904 --> 00:48:28,905
You can just
think of it this way.

872
00:48:30,115 --> 00:48:34,077
The amount of disorder is
so small that it's nearly perfect.

873
00:48:43,837 --> 00:48:45,797
There's a famous passage in the

874
00:48:45,881 --> 00:48:47,966
"General Scholium
to the Principia",

875
00:48:52,679 --> 00:48:53,805
which is an epilogue

876
00:48:53,847 --> 00:48:55,641
that Newton wrote in
one of the later editions

877
00:48:55,682 --> 00:48:57,643
to his great work on
universal gravitation.

878
00:48:58,644 --> 00:49:04,066
He's describing the beautiful
balance of the planets,

879
00:49:04,107 --> 00:49:08,111
the sun, the comets that
create this stable order.

880
00:49:09,946 --> 00:49:12,824
In this passage, he says, "This
most beautiful system of sun,

881
00:49:12,908 --> 00:49:16,119
planets, and comets could
only proceed from the counsel

882
00:49:16,203 --> 00:49:18,664
and dominion of an
intelligent and powerful being.”

883
00:49:25,003 --> 00:49:26,797
JAY RICHARDS: Even in
a highly fine-tuned universe,

884
00:49:28,173 --> 00:49:30,384
you still need a heck
of a lot more to go right

885
00:49:30,467 --> 00:49:34,971
in a planetary environment in
order for not only complex life

886
00:49:35,013 --> 00:49:40,769
in general, but human
life in particular to exist.

887
00:49:40,852 --> 00:49:44,815
BIJAN NEMATI: Our solar
system, especially in view

888
00:49:44,898 --> 00:49:47,818
of what we now have learned
about other solar systems,

889
00:49:47,901 --> 00:49:49,903
really ends up looking
quite remarkable.

890
00:49:51,738 --> 00:49:54,533
Our solar system has
terrestrial planets...

891
00:50:00,414 --> 00:50:02,040
in neat, circular orbits.

892
00:50:05,043 --> 00:50:06,962
And then, you get
to these gas giants...

893
00:50:11,550 --> 00:50:13,760
that are also in
neat, circular orbits.

894
00:50:18,473 --> 00:50:19,933
JAY RICHARDS:
They serve as guards.

895
00:50:19,975 --> 00:50:22,769
They serve as sentinels for
our solar system so that they,

896
00:50:22,811 --> 00:50:25,647
very often, take hits for
us from these comets...

897
00:50:29,484 --> 00:50:31,486
that if they were not
there would find their way

898
00:50:31,528 --> 00:50:34,197
into our neighborhood and
have an unfortunate tendency

899
00:50:34,281 --> 00:50:35,907
to sterilize life on our planet.

900
00:50:37,033 --> 00:50:38,952
BIJAN NEMATI: For example,
the comet Shoemaker-Levy,

901
00:50:40,537 --> 00:50:41,538
it ended up in Jupiter.

902
00:50:42,873 --> 00:50:43,832
JAY RICHARDS:
Jupiter and Saturn,

903
00:50:43,874 --> 00:50:47,836
these planets that for a long
time were associated with Greek

904
00:50:47,878 --> 00:50:53,633
and Roman gods, actually
do play a role in protecting us.

905
00:50:56,845 --> 00:51:00,682
BIJAN NEMATI: And
all of this around a stable,

906
00:51:00,766 --> 00:51:02,642
energetic, metal-rich star.

907
00:51:05,145 --> 00:51:07,397
Just these makes the
solar system pretty unique.

908
00:51:08,523 --> 00:51:12,861
Beyond that, our own planet
within the solar system is situated

909
00:51:12,944 --> 00:51:14,905
in what we call the
circumstellar habitable zone.

910
00:51:19,451 --> 00:51:22,579
BRIAN MILLER: If we were
too close, radiation would kill us.

911
00:51:22,662 --> 00:51:25,415
If we were too far away, our
planet wouldn't have the right

912
00:51:25,499 --> 00:51:27,876
materials to support
life in the way it does.

913
00:51:27,918 --> 00:51:29,544
It's the right tilt
and has the right

914
00:51:29,628 --> 00:51:31,588
rotation rate so that
we have seasons.

915
00:51:33,048 --> 00:51:35,133
JAY RICHARDS: You
need a large moon in order

916
00:51:35,217 --> 00:51:38,470
to stabilize the
planet's tilt on its axis.

917
00:51:38,512 --> 00:51:39,471
BRIAN MILLER: In
addition, what the moon

918
00:51:39,554 --> 00:51:42,432
does is that recirculates
the ocean through the tides

919
00:51:42,516 --> 00:51:44,601
to allow oxygen to
get to deeper levels.

920
00:51:44,684 --> 00:51:46,102
JAY RICHARDS: You need
the right kind of atmosphere,

921
00:51:46,186 --> 00:51:47,521
the right thickness
of the atmosphere,

922
00:51:47,604 --> 00:51:51,066
the right mass for the planet
in order to hold the right kind

923
00:51:51,149 --> 00:51:53,193
of atmosphere in
place, and then you

924
00:51:53,235 --> 00:51:55,237
need the right kind of geology.

925
00:51:55,278 --> 00:51:58,782
BRIAN MILLER: We have a molten
magma in the Earth that rotates.

926
00:51:58,824 --> 00:52:00,534
That creates a magnetic shield.

927
00:52:00,575 --> 00:52:01,910
That has an
important consequence

928
00:52:01,952 --> 00:52:04,913
because the magnetic field
of the Earth is our blanket,

929
00:52:04,955 --> 00:52:07,749
our shield against dangerous,
deadly cosmic radiation

930
00:52:07,791 --> 00:52:09,960
that would otherwise
modify our DNA,

931
00:52:10,001 --> 00:52:12,420
preventing us from
perhaps ever coming to exist.

932
00:52:15,549 --> 00:52:16,633
JAY RICHARDS:
It's not at all obvious

933
00:52:16,675 --> 00:52:19,010
that that necessarily
has to happen.

934
00:52:20,554 --> 00:52:23,223
In some ways, Mars
is the perfect example

935
00:52:23,306 --> 00:52:25,892
of how precisely things
have to be fine-tuned

936
00:52:25,976 --> 00:52:28,979
at a local level in
order to have life.

937
00:52:30,939 --> 00:52:35,193
Remember, Mars is the
most Earth-like planet known

938
00:52:35,277 --> 00:52:36,278
in the universe.

939
00:52:40,407 --> 00:52:43,535
Mars is in an otherwise
habitable solar system.

940
00:52:43,577 --> 00:52:46,746
It's very close to the
Goldilocks zone in its orbit.

941
00:52:46,788 --> 00:52:49,541
It's close to the
same mass as Earth.

942
00:52:49,624 --> 00:52:51,167
It has many of the
same materials.

943
00:52:51,209 --> 00:52:54,379
And yet a few things
didn't go quite right.

944
00:52:54,462 --> 00:52:56,840
And as a result,
it's lifeless while

945
00:52:56,882 --> 00:52:59,342
Earth is suffused with life.

946
00:52:59,384 --> 00:53:03,513
It's a remarkably
exquisite system of design

947
00:53:03,555 --> 00:53:06,182
in which all of these pieces
have to work together in order

948
00:53:06,266 --> 00:53:10,729
to produce a small abode on
the surface of a single small planet

949
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:13,523
where life can exist.

950
00:53:15,025 --> 00:53:17,193
[Music]

951
00:53:28,538 --> 00:53:30,582
TIMOTHY MCGREW: One
of the most curious attempts

952
00:53:30,665 --> 00:53:34,544
to get a round
inference to design

953
00:53:34,586 --> 00:53:38,965
in the universe is to push
it all off onto the concept

954
00:53:39,049 --> 00:53:40,467
of a multiverse.

955
00:53:44,596 --> 00:53:46,473
STEPHEN MEYER: The idea
that there are billions and billions

956
00:53:46,556 --> 00:53:48,975
and billions of other
universes out there,

957
00:53:49,059 --> 00:53:50,852
which had different combinations

958
00:53:50,936 --> 00:53:52,562
of fundamental
physical parameters

959
00:53:52,646 --> 00:53:54,439
and different
initial conditions,

960
00:53:56,358 --> 00:53:58,777
and we just happen
to be in the lucky one.

961
00:53:58,860 --> 00:54:00,737
JAY RICHARDS:
Given enough universes,

962
00:54:00,820 --> 00:54:04,407
presumably at least one or a
few of those universes will exist

963
00:54:04,449 --> 00:54:06,534
in such a way that
complex life can exist.

964
00:54:09,245 --> 00:54:11,122
LUKE BARNES: The nice thing
about the multiverse explanation

965
00:54:11,206 --> 00:54:14,960
is it shows that this
fine-tuning business seems

966
00:54:15,043 --> 00:54:17,545
to be pointing beyond
the universe as we know it.

967
00:54:17,629 --> 00:54:18,964
There's got to be
something else.

968
00:54:19,047 --> 00:54:20,548
There's got to be a
bigger story out there.

969
00:54:23,343 --> 00:54:26,888
BIJAN NEMATI: The multiverse,
as an appeal to a materialistic,

970
00:54:26,972 --> 00:54:33,645
naturalistic explanation, loses
any of its original attraction.

971
00:54:35,021 --> 00:54:38,566
Anything that's outside
of this nature is essentially,

972
00:54:39,734 --> 00:54:41,277
manifestly supernatural.

973
00:54:42,529 --> 00:54:44,572
And so, we're appealing
to something supernatural

974
00:54:45,991 --> 00:54:47,283
to avoid the supernatural.

975
00:54:51,121 --> 00:54:52,455
STEPHEN MEYER: Leonard Susskind,

976
00:54:52,539 --> 00:54:55,291
a prominent physicist
at Stanford, says, "Look,

977
00:54:55,333 --> 00:54:59,295
if we don't posit this kind
of a multiverse model,

978
00:54:59,379 --> 00:55:01,172
we're hard pressed to
answer the arguments

979
00:55:01,256 --> 00:55:04,509
of the ID proponents as to
how to explain the fine-tuning.”

980
00:55:07,679 --> 00:55:08,805
But there's a problem with that.

981
00:55:10,473 --> 00:55:12,726
For the multiverse
explanation to work,

982
00:55:12,809 --> 00:55:15,603
there must be some kind of
universe-generating mechanism,

983
00:55:15,687 --> 00:55:18,523
a kind of common cause of
all the universes so that we

984
00:55:18,565 --> 00:55:21,735
can portray each of the
universes as the outcome

985
00:55:21,776 --> 00:55:23,319
of a kind of cosmic lottery.

986
00:55:26,489 --> 00:55:28,158
And these
universe-generating machines,

987
00:55:28,199 --> 00:55:30,577
where they're constantly
generating universes

988
00:55:30,660 --> 00:55:33,538
with slightly different
parameters and laws of physics.

989
00:55:39,252 --> 00:55:40,295
And this is the sleeper.

990
00:55:41,504 --> 00:55:43,798
All the speculative
cosmological models

991
00:55:43,882 --> 00:55:47,302
that have been invoked to
explain how you might generate new

992
00:55:47,385 --> 00:55:50,305
universes, whether those
models are based on string theory

993
00:55:50,388 --> 00:55:52,557
or something called
inflationary cosmology,

994
00:55:55,351 --> 00:55:57,687
all those models
require exquisite,

995
00:55:57,771 --> 00:56:01,524
prior fine-tuning in the
universe-generating mechanism

996
00:56:01,566 --> 00:56:03,109
that is proposed.

997
00:56:05,653 --> 00:56:07,530
JAY RICHARDS: If a
monkey clicked on a typewriter

998
00:56:07,572 --> 00:56:10,075
for an infinite amount
of time, in theory

999
00:56:10,158 --> 00:56:12,077
it would eventually
type out Hamlet.

1000
00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:16,414
But if the typewriter
didn't have the letter H,

1001
00:56:16,498 --> 00:56:17,916
then it wouldn't stand a chance.

1002
00:56:20,251 --> 00:56:23,713
Just as the parts of the
typewriter need to be fine-tuned

1003
00:56:23,797 --> 00:56:26,257
to include all the
letters of the alphabet

1004
00:56:26,299 --> 00:56:29,094
to make possible typing
different words and sentences,

1005
00:56:30,178 --> 00:56:33,640
so too, all proposed
universe-generating mechanisms

1006
00:56:33,723 --> 00:56:36,351
would require fine-tuning
to make it possible

1007
00:56:36,434 --> 00:56:38,853
to generate different
universes with different

1008
00:56:38,937 --> 00:56:41,564
initial conditions
and laws of physics.

1009
00:56:43,525 --> 00:56:45,360
STEPHEN MEYER: The
multiverse doesn't actually get rid

1010
00:56:45,443 --> 00:56:48,363
of the fine-tuning or explain
the origin of the fine-tuning.

1011
00:56:48,446 --> 00:56:52,283
You really just push the fine-tuning
problem back one generation

1012
00:56:52,367 --> 00:56:53,743
without solving it.

1013
00:56:53,827 --> 00:56:56,871
And yet we know of one cause
that does produce fine-tuning

1014
00:56:56,913 --> 00:56:58,039
in our experience.

1015
00:56:58,081 --> 00:57:00,500
Whenever we see
what we call fine-tuning,

1016
00:57:00,542 --> 00:57:04,337
we always trace that type
of a system back to a mind,

1017
00:57:04,420 --> 00:57:06,840
whether we're talking about
a finely tuned French recipe,

1018
00:57:06,923 --> 00:57:09,300
a finely tuned internal
combustion engine,

1019
00:57:09,384 --> 00:57:11,928
or a finely tuned radio dial.

1020
00:57:11,970 --> 00:57:15,640
LUKE BARNES: The ability
to look at a set of possibilities

1021
00:57:15,682 --> 00:57:21,020
and to choose an outcome is
almost by definition intentional.

1022
00:57:21,062 --> 00:57:24,774
It's something that
a mind does that sort

1023
00:57:24,858 --> 00:57:27,402
of mindless matter doesn't do.

1024
00:57:27,485 --> 00:57:29,988
STEPHEN MEYER: So, given
that the multiverse doesn't actually

1025
00:57:30,071 --> 00:57:33,116
provide an ultimate
explanation for fine-tuning,

1026
00:57:33,158 --> 00:57:35,285
the best explanation
for fine-tuning

1027
00:57:35,368 --> 00:57:36,619
is still intelligent design.

1028
00:57:37,662 --> 00:57:40,707
PETER THIEL: The multiverse
is like this gateway drug.

1029
00:57:40,790 --> 00:57:42,000
Once you're lost
in the multiverse,

1030
00:57:42,083 --> 00:57:43,668
you might as well
be in a simulation.

1031
00:57:43,751 --> 00:57:44,961
BRIAN MILLER: Some
people have argued

1032
00:57:45,003 --> 00:57:47,297
that our universe is
actually a simulation,

1033
00:57:47,380 --> 00:57:48,798
that there's perhaps
some extraordinary

1034
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:50,800
computer that's
running a simulation.

1035
00:57:50,842 --> 00:57:51,968
We're part of that simulation.

1036
00:57:53,303 --> 00:57:54,512
DAVID BERLINSKI:
The simulation theory?

1037
00:57:56,264 --> 00:57:58,349
That belongs in the movies.

1038
00:57:58,391 --> 00:57:59,893
Come on, that's ridiculous.

1039
00:57:59,976 --> 00:58:01,311
We're not living
in a simulation.

1040
00:58:02,562 --> 00:58:05,148
There's no evidence of
a discrete film being run

1041
00:58:05,231 --> 00:58:06,733
in the background.

1042
00:58:06,774 --> 00:58:08,234
This is not what
I would consider,

1043
00:58:08,276 --> 00:58:11,487
or what you would consider,
sophisticated discourse.

1044
00:58:12,655 --> 00:58:14,073
Has nothing to do with science.

1045
00:58:14,157 --> 00:58:16,868
PETER THIEL: I think what all
these things have in common,

1046
00:58:16,951 --> 00:58:19,787
the simulation
theory, the multiverse,

1047
00:58:19,829 --> 00:58:21,748
you can't trust what's
in front of your eyes.

1048
00:58:21,831 --> 00:58:24,751
DAVID BERLINSKI: The
multiverse, simulation hypothesis,

1049
00:58:24,834 --> 00:58:27,962
we're living in a computer,
all those sorts of things,

1050
00:58:28,004 --> 00:58:29,380
there's nothing
wrong with any of this.

1051
00:58:29,464 --> 00:58:31,549
It just shouldn't be
mistaken for anything serious.

1052
00:58:43,436 --> 00:58:45,772
STEPHEN MEYER: We're not
only seeing evidence of design

1053
00:58:45,813 --> 00:58:48,650
at the macroscopic
scale of the entire universe

1054
00:58:48,733 --> 00:58:51,236
and in the fundamental
parameters of physics

1055
00:58:51,319 --> 00:58:53,196
that affect the
whole of the cosmos,

1056
00:58:55,156 --> 00:58:58,076
but we're now seeing
design in the microcosm

1057
00:59:00,245 --> 00:59:02,538
and the tiny recesses
of living cells.

1058
00:59:05,583 --> 00:59:07,460
[Music]

1059
00:59:22,308 --> 00:59:25,353
MICHAEL BEHE: Back in
the middle of the 19th century,

1060
00:59:25,436 --> 00:59:27,855
the cell was thought to
be a little piece of jelly,

1061
00:59:27,939 --> 00:59:30,024
so it seemed to
be pretty simple.

1062
00:59:30,066 --> 00:59:31,859
STEPHEN MEYER:
Thomas Henry Huxley said

1063
00:59:31,943 --> 00:59:33,987
that the living
cell is a simple,

1064
00:59:34,028 --> 00:59:38,074
homogenous globule of
undifferentiated protoplasm.

1065
00:59:38,157 --> 00:59:40,785
It's just a simple
enclosure with some Jello

1066
00:59:40,868 --> 00:59:42,704
or goo on the inside.

1067
00:59:42,745 --> 00:59:45,081
MICHAEL BEHE: But
modern science has shown

1068
00:59:45,123 --> 00:59:51,713
that the cell is an enormously
complex nanoscale factory.

1069
00:59:51,754 --> 00:59:56,134
And when you study biochemistry,
you come across machinery,

1070
00:59:56,217 --> 00:59:58,136
literally molecular machines.

1071
01:00:02,098 --> 01:00:06,686
One of my favorites is
the bacterial flagellum.

1072
01:00:07,687 --> 01:00:11,232
It is quite literally
an outboard motor

1073
01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:15,403
that bacteria use to swim.

1074
01:00:18,948 --> 01:00:22,785
It's got a propeller, this
long whip-like strand.

1075
01:00:25,079 --> 01:00:31,044
And the propeller is
attached to the drive shaft

1076
01:00:31,127 --> 01:00:37,008
by something called the U-joint,
which is attached to the motor.

1077
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,889
And the motor is hooked
onto the cell membrane

1078
01:00:42,930 --> 01:00:44,223
by something called the stator.

1079
01:00:45,308 --> 01:00:48,436
The stator requires
bushing to push up

1080
01:00:48,519 --> 01:00:50,396
through the
membrane of the cell.

1081
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,441
And altogether, there are
30 parts that are needed for it.

1082
01:00:55,860 --> 01:00:58,571
STEPHEN MEYER: In some
species, the flagellar motor is rotating

1083
01:00:58,613 --> 01:01:01,657
at 100,000 rpm, and
it can change direction

1084
01:01:01,699 --> 01:01:02,700
in a quarter of a turn.

1085
01:01:07,413 --> 01:01:09,123
It's an absolutely amazing piece

1086
01:01:09,165 --> 01:01:11,417
of high technology
in a low form of life.

1087
01:01:15,505 --> 01:01:17,632
MICHAEL BEHE: Another great
example of a molecular machine

1088
01:01:17,715 --> 01:01:20,385
in the cell is the ATP synthase.

1089
01:01:21,803 --> 01:01:23,012
STEPHEN MEYER:
It's a true turbine

1090
01:01:23,054 --> 01:01:25,264
that generates energy
for use in the cell

1091
01:01:25,306 --> 01:01:28,559
in much the same way a turbine
in a dam generates electricity.

1092
01:01:30,770 --> 01:01:32,980
MICHAEL BEHE: It's an engine
with a barrel-shaped rotor made

1093
01:01:33,064 --> 01:01:34,857
of protein subunits.

1094
01:01:34,941 --> 01:01:38,069
As the rotor spins, it turns
a drive shaft with a specially

1095
01:01:38,152 --> 01:01:42,365
placed bump that opens a
specifically shaped compartment.

1096
01:01:42,448 --> 01:01:45,535
Once opened, this compartment
receives two molecules

1097
01:01:45,618 --> 01:01:48,287
and combines them to form
another energy-rich molecule

1098
01:01:48,371 --> 01:01:51,040
called ATP, the
power plant for the cell.

1099
01:01:56,212 --> 01:01:57,171
SPEAKER: And
there's a whole host

1100
01:01:57,213 --> 01:01:59,090
of molecular
machines inside cells.

1101
01:02:00,842 --> 01:02:04,178
turbines, rotary
engines, sliding clamps,

1102
01:02:04,262 --> 01:02:06,806
machines for copying
digital information.

1103
01:02:06,848 --> 01:02:08,891
We've got kinesin
motors that are running

1104
01:02:08,975 --> 01:02:12,937
along that are basically UPS
trucks that are delivering things.

1105
01:02:12,979 --> 01:02:16,149
Motor proteins that walk step
by step as they tow vesicles

1106
01:02:16,190 --> 01:02:19,277
of material along tracks
made of other special proteins.

1107
01:02:24,699 --> 01:02:25,658
MICHAEL BEHE:
Darwin knew nothing

1108
01:02:25,741 --> 01:02:29,704
of these sophisticated multi-part
machines in the 19th century,

1109
01:02:29,745 --> 01:02:32,290
and his theory is not
equipped to explain them.

1110
01:02:33,541 --> 01:02:37,211
Darwin himself said, "If
it could be demonstrated

1111
01:02:37,253 --> 01:02:41,549
that there was any system
that could not be put together

1112
01:02:41,632 --> 01:02:45,303
by numerous, successive,
slight modifications,

1113
01:02:46,554 --> 01:02:48,556
my theory would
absolutely break down.”

1114
01:02:50,266 --> 01:02:52,310
In the bacterial
flagellar motor,

1115
01:02:52,351 --> 01:02:54,187
if you take away
the drive shaft or

1116
01:02:54,270 --> 01:02:58,733
if you take away the propeller
or the U-joint, it's broken.

1117
01:03:00,067 --> 01:03:03,988
If any key component of
the flagellar motor is removed,

1118
01:03:04,071 --> 01:03:05,490
it stops functioning.

1119
01:03:05,573 --> 01:03:10,119
This means simpler evolutionary
precursors wouldn't have worked.

1120
01:03:10,161 --> 01:03:12,955
So, natural selection
wouldn't have preserved them,

1121
01:03:13,039 --> 01:03:14,957
halting evolution
before the fully

1122
01:03:15,041 --> 01:03:16,459
functional motor could develop.

1123
01:03:19,754 --> 01:03:23,841
On the flip side, when you
see a system that's put together

1124
01:03:23,883 --> 01:03:26,511
with a number of components
matched to each other,

1125
01:03:26,594 --> 01:03:29,722
you recognize that's
the product of a mind.

1126
01:03:29,805 --> 01:03:32,058
STEPHEN MEYER: The
Darwinian mechanism of mutation

1127
01:03:32,099 --> 01:03:34,644
and selection, which has
long been posed as a kind

1128
01:03:34,727 --> 01:03:40,066
of designer-substitute mechanism,
cannot build those systems.

1129
01:03:40,107 --> 01:03:42,527
Then, perhaps they look designed

1130
01:03:42,568 --> 01:03:43,819
because they really
were designed.

1131
01:03:57,708 --> 01:03:59,168
But there's an even
deeper consideration

1132
01:03:59,252 --> 01:04:01,837
that points to intelligent
design and biology.

1133
01:04:03,673 --> 01:04:05,299
SPEAKER: One of the
most brilliant theories

1134
01:04:05,383 --> 01:04:10,054
of modern science was formulated
by an American, JD Watson,

1135
01:04:11,305 --> 01:04:13,266
and an Englishman, FHC Crick.

1136
01:04:14,892 --> 01:04:15,893
FRANCIS CRICK:
As soon as we met,

1137
01:04:15,935 --> 01:04:20,147
we found that although we
had very different backgrounds,

1138
01:04:20,189 --> 01:04:21,774
we had a lot of
things in common.

1139
01:04:21,816 --> 01:04:24,569
STEPHEN MEYER: Francis
Crick was a PhD student

1140
01:04:24,652 --> 01:04:27,154
at Cambridge University,
working in physics,

1141
01:04:27,196 --> 01:04:28,322
not even in biology.

1142
01:04:32,076 --> 01:04:35,413
He teamed up with a 23-year-old
American named James Watson.

1143
01:04:36,539 --> 01:04:37,540
JAMES WATSON:
Neither of us were trained

1144
01:04:37,582 --> 01:04:39,083
for what really
interested us now.

1145
01:04:39,166 --> 01:04:40,376
We both wanted to find the gene.

1146
01:04:40,459 --> 01:04:41,544
We weren't organic chemists.

1147
01:04:41,627 --> 01:04:42,587
We weren't anything else.

1148
01:04:45,047 --> 01:04:48,092
STEPHEN MEYER: And they
began to work on what was at the time

1149
01:04:48,175 --> 01:04:51,554
deemed to be kind of the
holy grail of biological research.

1150
01:04:55,224 --> 01:04:58,561
By the early 1950s, many
scientists were suspecting

1151
01:04:58,644 --> 01:05:01,314
that DNA had something
to do with the transmission

1152
01:05:01,355 --> 01:05:05,818
of hereditary information,
but didn't know

1153
01:05:05,860 --> 01:05:07,361
what the structure of DNA was.

1154
01:05:08,863 --> 01:05:12,116
And so, Watson and Crick
began a kind of odyssey

1155
01:05:12,199 --> 01:05:13,743
to try to crack this problem.

1156
01:05:15,453 --> 01:05:20,875
And by the spring of 1953, they
had actually formulated a model

1157
01:05:20,916 --> 01:05:23,419
that elucidated the structure
of the DNA molecule.

1158
01:05:23,461 --> 01:05:26,130
They showed that it had a
beautiful double helix structure.

1159
01:05:27,673 --> 01:05:29,800
And along the spine
of the molecule,

1160
01:05:29,842 --> 01:05:34,055
on the interior, there were
chemical subunits, four of them.

1161
01:05:34,138 --> 01:05:38,434
SPEAKER: One, two, three, four.

1162
01:05:38,517 --> 01:05:40,936
STEPHEN MEYER: Now represented
with the letters A, T, G, and C.

1163
01:05:42,730 --> 01:05:44,315
SPEAKER: A would pair with T.

1164
01:05:44,398 --> 01:05:47,193
And then, you have
two other genetic letters.

1165
01:05:47,234 --> 01:05:50,071
C would pair up with G.

1166
01:05:50,112 --> 01:05:52,365
So, you had the double helix.

1167
01:05:54,992 --> 01:05:57,912
So, the discovery of
the structure suggested

1168
01:05:57,953 --> 01:06:00,956
that one strand of DNA had
a complementary strand...

1169
01:06:03,626 --> 01:06:07,630
that could in turn function
as a template for rebuilding

1170
01:06:07,672 --> 01:06:09,548
or copying the original strand.

1171
01:06:16,180 --> 01:06:19,350
And this suggested
a duplication process.

1172
01:06:19,392 --> 01:06:21,394
[Music]

1173
01:06:28,526 --> 01:06:30,695
FRANCIS CRICK: I don't think
I worried too much about what

1174
01:06:30,778 --> 01:06:32,780
the structure might tell us.

1175
01:06:32,822 --> 01:06:34,740
I just thought we
ought to find out.

1176
01:06:38,494 --> 01:06:41,497
And when we had
found out, of course,

1177
01:06:41,539 --> 01:06:43,624
it struck us with a
tremendous impact,

1178
01:06:44,834 --> 01:06:48,421
just how beautiful
and exciting it was.

1179
01:06:48,504 --> 01:06:52,341
Because there before
us was the answer to one

1180
01:06:52,383 --> 01:06:56,762
of the fundamental problems in
biology, how do genes replicate?

1181
01:06:56,846 --> 01:07:00,224
And it was very simple,
and you couldn't miss it.

1182
01:07:01,767 --> 01:07:03,936
We used to occasionally
just, Jim and I,

1183
01:07:04,019 --> 01:07:07,022
just sit and look
at the molecule

1184
01:07:07,106 --> 01:07:08,399
and think how beautiful it was.

1185
01:07:11,235 --> 01:07:13,738
STEPHEN MEYER: Interestingly,
Crick had been a code breaker

1186
01:07:13,821 --> 01:07:14,822
in World War II.

1187
01:07:16,031 --> 01:07:19,660
In 1957, he then formulates
something called the sequence

1188
01:07:19,702 --> 01:07:22,872
hypothesis, which in many
ways, I think is a more significant

1189
01:07:22,913 --> 01:07:25,875
achievement than even the
original elucidation of the structure.

1190
01:07:28,544 --> 01:07:32,298
Crick realizes that the four
chemical subunits along the spine

1191
01:07:32,381 --> 01:07:34,884
of the double helix, on
the interior of the helix,

1192
01:07:36,302 --> 01:07:39,597
are functioning like alphabetic
characters in a written text.

1193
01:07:41,182 --> 01:07:44,059
That is to say that it's
not the physical properties

1194
01:07:44,143 --> 01:07:44,935
of these subunits.

1195
01:07:44,977 --> 01:07:47,146
It's not their molecular
weight or their shape,

1196
01:07:47,229 --> 01:07:50,065
but rather it's their
arrangement in accord

1197
01:07:50,149 --> 01:07:52,526
with an independent
symbol convention

1198
01:07:52,568 --> 01:07:54,737
that molecular biologists
eventually elucidate,

1199
01:07:54,820 --> 01:07:58,199
called the genetic code,
that gives them their ability

1200
01:07:58,240 --> 01:07:59,575
to transmit information.

1201
01:08:01,869 --> 01:08:02,912
RICHARD STERNBERG:
What also happened

1202
01:08:02,995 --> 01:08:08,793
around the same time
was Gamow had shown

1203
01:08:08,876 --> 01:08:12,379
that you could take those
letters, As, Cs, Gs, and Ts,

1204
01:08:13,422 --> 01:08:18,719
and you could represent them
in binary code, zeros and ones.

1205
01:08:21,514 --> 01:08:26,310
So, it had an uncanny
resemblance to a digital bit string.

1206
01:08:32,066 --> 01:08:34,443
It looked very much like
an information carrier.

1207
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:37,321
But for what?

1208
01:08:40,115 --> 01:08:41,992
DOUGLAS AXE: Crick
anticipated this, too.

1209
01:08:42,076 --> 01:08:44,328
He thought these bases
were carrying information

1210
01:08:44,411 --> 01:08:45,955
for the construction
of proteins.

1211
01:08:47,164 --> 01:08:51,836
A cell is filled with proteins
that are performing the tasks

1212
01:08:51,919 --> 01:08:52,878
inside the cells.

1213
01:08:52,962 --> 01:08:54,964
STEPHEN MEYER: They're
like the tools in a toolbox.

1214
01:08:55,005 --> 01:08:57,675
You have a hammer,
a wrench, a saw.

1215
01:08:57,716 --> 01:09:00,511
Each of those different tools
perform different functions

1216
01:09:00,594 --> 01:09:03,180
because of the different
three-dimensional shapes

1217
01:09:03,264 --> 01:09:04,265
that they have.

1218
01:09:05,474 --> 01:09:07,184
The same thing
is true of proteins.

1219
01:09:08,811 --> 01:09:11,939
Proteins catalyze
reactions at super-fast rates,

1220
01:09:12,022 --> 01:09:13,649
those are called
enzyme proteins,

1221
01:09:13,732 --> 01:09:16,652
they build the structural
parts of molecular machines,

1222
01:09:16,735 --> 01:09:20,948
and they also help to process
information on the DNA molecule.

1223
01:09:22,408 --> 01:09:23,868
So, proteins do all
these important jobs,

1224
01:09:23,951 --> 01:09:26,579
but they do those jobs
because they have very specific

1225
01:09:26,662 --> 01:09:29,331
three-dimensional
conformations or shapes.

1226
01:09:40,009 --> 01:09:43,012
Now that raises the question,
how do they acquire those shapes?

1227
01:09:44,221 --> 01:09:47,433
Well, they get those
precise shapes if and only

1228
01:09:47,516 --> 01:09:52,563
if the amino acid subunits,
the constituent parts out

1229
01:09:52,646 --> 01:09:57,985
of which they're made, are
arranged in very specific ways.

1230
01:10:02,948 --> 01:10:05,075
BRIAN MILLER: And there's
20 amino acids in the same way

1231
01:10:05,159 --> 01:10:07,703
that you've got 26
letters in the alphabet.

1232
01:10:07,786 --> 01:10:09,538
So, the order of the amino acids

1233
01:10:09,663 --> 01:10:12,374
in a protein is like the
letters in a sentence.

1234
01:10:12,416 --> 01:10:13,876
They have to be in
the right order to work.

1235
01:10:16,378 --> 01:10:18,797
STEPHEN MEYER: But
what causes the amino acids

1236
01:10:18,881 --> 01:10:23,093
to get arranged properly
so that they will fold properly

1237
01:10:23,135 --> 01:10:24,136
into the right shapes?

1238
01:10:26,722 --> 01:10:29,475
And the answer to
that was the discovery

1239
01:10:29,516 --> 01:10:32,645
that the DNA molecule
contains information...

1240
01:10:36,315 --> 01:10:39,693
instructions for
directing the construction

1241
01:10:39,735 --> 01:10:42,655
of those protein molecules
that do all those important jobs.

1242
01:10:44,365 --> 01:10:45,574
DOUGLAS AXE: In
those stretches of DNA,

1243
01:10:45,616 --> 01:10:48,994
you have very particular
sequences of A's, C's, G's,

1244
01:10:49,078 --> 01:10:54,416
and T's that tell cells how to
make amino acid sequences

1245
01:10:54,500 --> 01:10:57,378
that fold and become
functional proteins.

1246
01:10:58,420 --> 01:11:01,423
And molecular biologists now
have a very good understanding

1247
01:11:01,465 --> 01:11:04,134
of how the information in
DNA directs the process

1248
01:11:04,218 --> 01:11:05,302
of protein synthesis.

1249
01:11:07,137 --> 01:11:11,016
First, the cell uses a large protein
machine called a polymerase

1250
01:11:11,058 --> 01:11:14,061
to make a copy of the
information on the DNA.

1251
01:11:14,144 --> 01:11:17,690
The polymerase separates
the DNA into two strands.

1252
01:11:17,731 --> 01:11:19,692
One strand serves as
a template for creating

1253
01:11:19,733 --> 01:11:22,111
a complementary RNA copy.

1254
01:11:22,194 --> 01:11:26,115
The resulting copy, called a
messenger RNA transcript,

1255
01:11:26,156 --> 01:11:28,409
detaches and then
approaches and passes

1256
01:11:28,450 --> 01:11:30,160
through the nuclear
pore complex.

1257
01:11:32,746 --> 01:11:35,958
Then the transcript with the
genetic assembly instructions

1258
01:11:36,041 --> 01:11:39,128
arrives at a two-part chemical
factory called the ribosome,

1259
01:11:39,169 --> 01:11:40,713
the site of protein synthesis.

1260
01:11:43,924 --> 01:11:47,720
As the messenger RNA transcript
passes through the ribosome,

1261
01:11:47,803 --> 01:11:50,889
a mechanical assembly line
builds a specifically sequenced chain

1262
01:11:50,973 --> 01:11:53,976
of amino acids using the
instructions on the transcript.

1263
01:11:55,519 --> 01:11:57,855
These amino acids are
transported to the ribosome

1264
01:11:57,896 --> 01:12:00,941
by molecules
called transfer RNAs,

1265
01:12:01,025 --> 01:12:03,110
which link specific
sequences of bases

1266
01:12:03,152 --> 01:12:06,447
to corresponding amino acids
in accord with the genetic code.

1267
01:12:12,786 --> 01:12:15,414
The sequential arrangement
of the amino acids determines

1268
01:12:15,497 --> 01:12:18,000
whether the chain will
fold into a functional protein,

1269
01:12:18,083 --> 01:12:19,168
and if so, which type.

1270
01:12:29,595 --> 01:12:32,306
Once the chain is folded
into a functional protein,

1271
01:12:32,389 --> 01:12:35,225
it is ready to perform
its job inside the cell.

1272
01:12:45,569 --> 01:12:47,446
That's in fact what's
going on inside cells.

1273
01:12:50,365 --> 01:12:52,117
STEPHEN MEYER:
The discovery meant

1274
01:12:52,201 --> 01:12:55,204
that you had to explain
not just the origin

1275
01:12:55,245 --> 01:12:58,874
of the cell viewed as a
kind of amorphous blob,

1276
01:13:02,044 --> 01:13:06,799
but rather as an enclosure
of a sophisticated information

1277
01:13:06,882 --> 01:13:11,678
storage device and a sophisticated
information transmission

1278
01:13:11,762 --> 01:13:12,971
and processing system.

1279
01:13:17,101 --> 01:13:18,977
SPEAKER: They
inherited all the traits

1280
01:13:19,061 --> 01:13:20,395
of the cell they came from.

1281
01:13:22,564 --> 01:13:26,735
And this same sort of process
goes on in all living creatures.

1282
01:13:26,819 --> 01:13:28,695
JAMES TOUR: It's not just a
bunch of protoplasm anymore.

1283
01:13:29,863 --> 01:13:32,574
The cell is utterly amazing.

1284
01:13:32,658 --> 01:13:36,662
How can you look
at this and not think,

1285
01:13:36,745 --> 01:13:38,747
how in the world did this start?

1286
01:13:38,789 --> 01:13:42,751
Because molecules don't come
together to do that on their own.

1287
01:13:46,588 --> 01:13:47,965
SPEAKER: OK.

1288
01:13:48,006 --> 01:13:51,343
But what I'd like to know is,
where'd the first cell come from?

1289
01:13:51,426 --> 01:13:55,013
SPEAKER: In a way, you're
asking where life itself began.

1290
01:13:55,097 --> 01:13:56,098
We don't know that.

1291
01:14:08,402 --> 01:14:12,030
STEPHEN MEYER: I first
encountered the mystery about the origin

1292
01:14:12,072 --> 01:14:14,741
of the first life at a
conference that I attended

1293
01:14:14,783 --> 01:14:16,034
when I was a young scientist.

1294
01:14:17,494 --> 01:14:20,622
There was a discussion
between scientists

1295
01:14:20,664 --> 01:14:25,627
who were committed to the
standard chemical evolutionary model

1296
01:14:25,711 --> 01:14:28,505
for how life arose
from simpler chemicals

1297
01:14:28,547 --> 01:14:31,466
in the so-called prebiotic soup,

1298
01:14:31,508 --> 01:14:33,719
and other scientists who
had become skeptical

1299
01:14:33,802 --> 01:14:34,803
of the standard model.

1300
01:14:38,390 --> 01:14:40,934
One of those scientists on the
panel was a man named Dean

1301
01:14:41,018 --> 01:14:46,773
Kenyon, a biophysicist with a
Stanford PhD, he'd worked at NASA,

1302
01:14:46,815 --> 01:14:49,610
and he'd written the best-
selling advanced graduate-level

1303
01:14:49,693 --> 01:14:56,283
textbook on how life first arose
from these prebiotic chemicals,

1304
01:14:57,701 --> 01:14:59,369
"Biochemical Predestination".

1305
01:15:00,496 --> 01:15:01,997
But leading up
to the conference,

1306
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:03,790
he began to doubt
his own theory.

1307
01:15:05,334 --> 01:15:06,793
DEAN KENYON: My own
research work on origin

1308
01:15:06,835 --> 01:15:10,547
of first life was one
of the main factors

1309
01:15:10,589 --> 01:15:15,344
that led me to begin to
question this general viewpoint

1310
01:15:15,385 --> 01:15:16,845
about origins.

1311
01:15:18,764 --> 01:15:21,266
As time went on there, I
began to be more aware

1312
01:15:21,308 --> 01:15:23,477
of some of the
problems involved.

1313
01:15:27,022 --> 01:15:30,984
Actually, some students brought
me a book in which my own work,

1314
01:15:31,068 --> 01:15:33,779
"Biochemical
Predestination", was critiqued.

1315
01:15:33,820 --> 01:15:37,407
I thought I could easily refute
this refutation of my work.

1316
01:15:37,491 --> 01:15:39,117
And so, I said, "Well,
I'll take the summer

1317
01:15:39,201 --> 01:15:40,035
to look at this material.

1318
01:15:40,118 --> 01:15:41,119
It looks very interesting.”

1319
01:15:42,996 --> 01:15:46,041
Here, the question of
origin of genetic information

1320
01:15:46,083 --> 01:15:47,751
looked increasingly
problematical.

1321
01:15:49,586 --> 01:15:52,005
By the time the summer
was over, I had decided

1322
01:15:52,047 --> 01:15:54,967
that I could not
refute this criticism.

1323
01:15:56,134 --> 01:16:00,389
Things added up to the time
for a critical reexamination.

1324
01:16:02,307 --> 01:16:06,436
STEPHEN MEYER: And his
old idea was that the subunits

1325
01:16:06,478 --> 01:16:10,565
of the large information-
carrying biological molecules,

1326
01:16:10,649 --> 01:16:14,111
like the proteins and the
DNA, would have self-organized

1327
01:16:14,194 --> 01:16:18,407
because of forces of attraction
between the constituent parts

1328
01:16:18,490 --> 01:16:20,867
of those large molecules.

1329
01:16:22,619 --> 01:16:26,039
In chemistry, sodium and
chloride combine to form salt.

1330
01:16:26,081 --> 01:16:28,041
NA has a plus charge.

1331
01:16:28,083 --> 01:16:29,668
Cl has a minus charge.

1332
01:16:29,751 --> 01:16:33,171
They attract, and they form a
nicely ordered crystal lattice.

1333
01:16:34,464 --> 01:16:37,426
However, as he got
deeply into the chemistry,

1334
01:16:37,467 --> 01:16:40,470
Kenyon realized that DNA
wasn't that kind of molecule.

1335
01:16:40,512 --> 01:16:44,141
DEAN KENYON: In the DNA
molecule, we have A, T, C, and G.

1336
01:16:44,182 --> 01:16:48,353
And the specific order in which
they occur does not depend

1337
01:16:48,395 --> 01:16:51,231
on the chemical
binding affinities

1338
01:16:51,273 --> 01:16:53,859
between or among
those various bases.

1339
01:16:56,069 --> 01:16:57,738
STEPHEN MEYER: I used
to use a visual illustration

1340
01:16:57,779 --> 01:17:01,074
with my students to
get the idea across.

1341
01:17:01,116 --> 01:17:03,285
I would use a little
magnetic chalkboard

1342
01:17:03,368 --> 01:17:06,121
and stick letters to
it, magnetic letters.

1343
01:17:06,163 --> 01:17:08,332
In the case of the magnetic
letters in the chalkboard,

1344
01:17:08,415 --> 01:17:10,459
there were magnetic
forces that explained

1345
01:17:10,500 --> 01:17:12,461
why the letters stuck
to the backboard.

1346
01:17:13,545 --> 01:17:17,507
But those forces didn't explain
the arrangement of the letters

1347
01:17:17,549 --> 01:17:18,800
that spelled out some message.

1348
01:17:20,510 --> 01:17:24,890
Instead, that was explained
only by an exogenous source

1349
01:17:24,973 --> 01:17:27,809
of information, namely, I
had arranged the letters.

1350
01:17:29,186 --> 01:17:31,605
So, the magnetic forces
explain why the letters stuck

1351
01:17:31,688 --> 01:17:34,775
to the backboard, but
not their arrangement.

1352
01:17:34,816 --> 01:17:38,195
And in the same way, there
are forces of attraction in DNA

1353
01:17:38,278 --> 01:17:39,738
that explain why the bases stick

1354
01:17:39,780 --> 01:17:42,366
to the sugar phosphate backbone,

1355
01:17:42,449 --> 01:17:45,577
but not forces that explain the
arrangement of the characters.

1356
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:49,289
DEAN KENYON: And so,
my doubt just reached, I guess,

1357
01:17:49,373 --> 01:17:51,500
for me, the intellectual
breaking point.

1358
01:17:53,335 --> 01:17:57,589
If one could get at the
origin of the messages,

1359
01:17:57,672 --> 01:18:00,842
the encoded messages
within the living machinery,

1360
01:18:00,884 --> 01:18:05,389
then you would really be on to
something far more intellectually

1361
01:18:05,472 --> 01:18:08,934
satisfying than this
chemical evolution theory.

1362
01:18:10,394 --> 01:18:12,020
STEPHEN MEYER:
And at this conference,

1363
01:18:12,104 --> 01:18:14,523
he publicly repudiated
his own theory.

1364
01:18:14,564 --> 01:18:17,025
DEAN KENYON: I don't think
you have to jump off the end

1365
01:18:17,109 --> 01:18:19,403
of the rational world
to move in the direction

1366
01:18:19,486 --> 01:18:22,197
of a frankly theistic
understanding of the origin of life.

1367
01:18:25,575 --> 01:18:27,411
JAMES TOUR: Since
Kenyon announced his doubts,

1368
01:18:27,494 --> 01:18:28,829
there have been
many other attempts

1369
01:18:28,870 --> 01:18:32,707
to simulate how the molecular
compounds necessary for life,

1370
01:18:32,749 --> 01:18:37,129
like proteins and DNA, or even
simpler chemical building blocks

1371
01:18:37,212 --> 01:18:39,423
of those compounds,
might have evolved

1372
01:18:39,464 --> 01:18:43,260
under realistic prebiotic
conditions on the early Earth.

1373
01:18:43,343 --> 01:18:47,222
But those laboratory simulations
invariably require a cheat.

1374
01:18:48,515 --> 01:18:49,516
Human interference.

1375
01:18:51,351 --> 01:18:55,021
When you do organic synthesis,
when you make a compound,

1376
01:18:55,105 --> 01:18:57,858
you need to generally
start with pure compounds

1377
01:18:57,899 --> 01:19:01,486
because the
impurities cause a lot

1378
01:19:01,528 --> 01:19:04,156
of deleterious
reactions to occur.

1379
01:19:05,157 --> 01:19:08,410
Once you've made your
compound, you've got to stop it

1380
01:19:08,493 --> 01:19:11,496
at exactly the right time
before it decomposes,

1381
01:19:11,580 --> 01:19:12,664
more human interference.

1382
01:19:13,832 --> 01:19:16,751
Now, what you have to
do is you have to separate it

1383
01:19:16,793 --> 01:19:20,088
from all the other
compounds that formed.

1384
01:19:20,130 --> 01:19:23,550
Separations are
really hard, really hard.

1385
01:19:23,633 --> 01:19:24,843
Huge human involvement.

1386
01:19:24,926 --> 01:19:26,970
Now you have to identify it.

1387
01:19:27,053 --> 01:19:31,057
You have to know what
it is and characterize it

1388
01:19:31,141 --> 01:19:33,852
in order to bring it
on to the next step.

1389
01:19:33,935 --> 01:19:34,936
How do you go on?

1390
01:19:36,188 --> 01:19:39,399
And the poor early
Earth was mindless.

1391
01:19:39,441 --> 01:19:42,068
It didn't know what it
was supposed to make.

1392
01:19:42,110 --> 01:19:45,363
Molecules have never been
known to move toward life.

1393
01:19:45,405 --> 01:19:46,740
Never, ever, ever.

1394
01:19:46,781 --> 01:19:49,659
Molecules don't evolve
toward life. They don't.

1395
01:19:49,743 --> 01:19:53,121
STEPHEN MEYER: Attempts to
simulate how life could have arisen

1396
01:19:53,163 --> 01:19:56,500
from a prebiotic environment
involve an element

1397
01:19:56,541 --> 01:19:58,543
that never gets acknowledged.

1398
01:19:58,627 --> 01:20:01,463
And that element
is intelligence.

1399
01:20:01,505 --> 01:20:04,549
JAMES TOUR: We need to
address more fundamental questions.

1400
01:20:04,633 --> 01:20:06,718
What's the origin of the code?

1401
01:20:11,348 --> 01:20:14,100
JOHN LENNOX: And I know
that philosophers of science

1402
01:20:14,184 --> 01:20:17,646
and scientists find it
difficult to really grasp what

1403
01:20:17,729 --> 01:20:21,942
information is because
it has a couple of levels.

1404
01:20:22,025 --> 01:20:24,110
STEPHEN MEYER: In
classical information theory,

1405
01:20:24,194 --> 01:20:27,781
there isn't a way to
distinguish a series of symbols

1406
01:20:27,822 --> 01:20:33,036
that are merely improbable
from a series of symbols

1407
01:20:33,119 --> 01:20:36,373
that are improbable
and also functional.

1408
01:20:36,456 --> 01:20:38,458
[Music]

1409
01:20:39,167 --> 01:20:42,671
The difference between the
monkey typing out random gibberish,

1410
01:20:42,754 --> 01:20:45,924
which would be a highly complex
arrangement of characters,

1411
01:20:46,007 --> 01:20:47,884
but not one that
conveys any meaning

1412
01:20:47,926 --> 01:20:50,053
or performs a
communication function,

1413
01:20:50,136 --> 01:20:51,930
and, say, a line
of poetry, like,

1414
01:20:52,013 --> 01:20:54,224
"Time and tide wait for no man.”

1415
01:20:54,266 --> 01:20:58,019
If you compare those two
symbol strings side by side,

1416
01:20:58,103 --> 01:21:01,064
you'll see that they both
are highly improbable.

1417
01:21:02,899 --> 01:21:05,360
But something is
present in the one string

1418
01:21:05,443 --> 01:21:07,279
of characters that's
not present in the other.

1419
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:08,697
And that's what
we call specificity.

1420
01:21:09,823 --> 01:21:12,659
Or sometimes it's called
specified complexity.

1421
01:21:12,701 --> 01:21:15,787
The arrangement of
the characters is specific

1422
01:21:15,871 --> 01:21:17,289
to perform a function.

1423
01:21:19,332 --> 01:21:20,625
DOUGLAS AXE: Now,
what's interesting in life,

1424
01:21:20,709 --> 01:21:22,544
you have things that
are not just complex and

1425
01:21:22,586 --> 01:21:24,337
that there's lots of parts, it's

1426
01:21:24,379 --> 01:21:26,339
that they're arranged
in a particular way

1427
01:21:26,423 --> 01:21:29,259
that allows them to do
something remarkable.

1428
01:21:29,342 --> 01:21:31,761
And that is the thing
that makes the complexity

1429
01:21:31,803 --> 01:21:33,305
not just ordinary complexity...

1430
01:21:35,682 --> 01:21:37,309
but specified complexity.

1431
01:21:40,061 --> 01:21:43,315
And DNA is a great example
of specified complexity.

1432
01:21:45,692 --> 01:21:48,903
JOHN LENNOX: And when we're
talking about information contained

1433
01:21:48,987 --> 01:21:52,657
in the genetic code
in DNA, we are talking

1434
01:21:52,741 --> 01:21:56,202
about a level of
semantic information.

1435
01:21:56,244 --> 01:22:01,666
Because in DNA, the sequence
is coding for something.

1436
01:22:01,750 --> 01:22:04,210
In that sense, it has meaning.

1437
01:22:04,252 --> 01:22:06,087
STEPHEN MEYER: A
scientist named Henry Quastler,

1438
01:22:07,422 --> 01:22:11,176
who was one of the pioneers in
applying the information sciences

1439
01:22:11,259 --> 01:22:15,263
to analyzing the information
that's stored in DNA, he says,

1440
01:22:15,305 --> 01:22:19,643
"The creation of new
information is habitually associated

1441
01:22:19,684 --> 01:22:20,727
with conscious activity.”

1442
01:22:23,188 --> 01:22:25,523
JOHN LENNOX: We
associate information

1443
01:22:26,858 --> 01:22:30,737
with a rational
intelligence behind it.

1444
01:22:30,820 --> 01:22:32,614
That's true at all levels.

1445
01:22:32,697 --> 01:22:35,075
And as we grow up, we learn.

1446
01:22:35,116 --> 01:22:35,992
We read books.

1447
01:22:36,076 --> 01:22:37,452
We see words.

1448
01:22:37,535 --> 01:22:39,245
We learn language.

1449
01:22:39,287 --> 01:22:42,207
And everything
points towards the fact

1450
01:22:42,290 --> 01:22:46,419
that this does not
arise spontaneously.

1451
01:22:46,461 --> 01:22:48,505
STEPHEN MEYER: Bill Gates
says that DNA is like a software

1452
01:22:48,546 --> 01:22:52,509
program, only much more
complex than any we've ever created.

1453
01:22:52,550 --> 01:22:54,886
What do we know about
the origin of software?

1454
01:22:54,969 --> 01:22:56,846
It always comes from a
mind, from a programmer.

1455
01:22:56,930 --> 01:22:59,057
In fact, whenever
we see information

1456
01:22:59,099 --> 01:23:00,392
and we trace it
back to its source,

1457
01:23:00,475 --> 01:23:02,894
whether we're looking at
a section of software code

1458
01:23:02,936 --> 01:23:06,272
or a hieroglyphic inscription
or a paragraph in a book

1459
01:23:06,314 --> 01:23:08,108
or information embedded
in a radio signal,

1460
01:23:08,191 --> 01:23:11,152
if we trace the information
back to its ultimate source,

1461
01:23:11,236 --> 01:23:14,072
we always come to a
mind, not a material process.

1462
01:23:14,155 --> 01:23:16,658
So, the discovery of
information in a digital

1463
01:23:16,700 --> 01:23:19,285
or alphabetic form at
the foundation of life

1464
01:23:19,327 --> 01:23:23,540
in molecules like DNA and
RNA is a powerful indicator

1465
01:23:23,665 --> 01:23:26,334
of a designing intelligence
playing a role in the origin

1466
01:23:26,418 --> 01:23:29,003
of that information, and
therefore in the origin of life itself.

1467
01:23:30,964 --> 01:23:33,842
JOHN LENNOX: That's
where all our experience

1468
01:23:33,883 --> 01:23:35,051
of the universe points.

1469
01:23:35,093 --> 01:23:39,723
We see the word exit, immediately
we infer to a mind behind it.

1470
01:23:39,764 --> 01:23:45,270
A Chinese archaeologist sees
a couple of strokes on the wall

1471
01:23:45,311 --> 01:23:48,481
of a cave and says,
"Human intelligence.”

1472
01:23:48,565 --> 01:23:51,317
And I say, "Don't be
so stupid, two strokes.”

1473
01:23:51,359 --> 01:23:54,821
Ah, yes, but they are the
Chinese symbol for a human being.

1474
01:23:54,863 --> 01:23:58,199
And so, there must have
been an intelligence behind that.

1475
01:23:59,701 --> 01:24:01,619
WILLIAM DEMBSKI:
We look inside the cell.

1476
01:24:01,703 --> 01:24:04,456
We have a whole
theory which describes

1477
01:24:04,539 --> 01:24:06,374
these controlled
transfers of information.

1478
01:24:07,500 --> 01:24:10,211
And the only examples
we know of this sort

1479
01:24:10,253 --> 01:24:14,716
of controlled transfers
of information is systems

1480
01:24:14,758 --> 01:24:17,177
that intelligent agents
have developed.

1481
01:24:17,260 --> 01:24:19,763
BRENDAN DIXON: When we look
at how information gets processed

1482
01:24:19,846 --> 01:24:25,727
in the cell, you get the string
of information being ejected out

1483
01:24:25,810 --> 01:24:28,772
of the nucleus, but
that string of information

1484
01:24:28,813 --> 01:24:32,025
on its own does not give
you, in any way, shape,

1485
01:24:32,108 --> 01:24:35,028
or form, the product we
need to get work done.

1486
01:24:35,111 --> 01:24:38,406
It has to be picked up
by another mechanism

1487
01:24:38,448 --> 01:24:41,034
that knows how
to read that string

1488
01:24:41,076 --> 01:24:45,913
and convert what it sees there
into what is needed over here

1489
01:24:45,914 --> 01:24:49,417
to get the work done that
that thing over there needs.

1490
01:24:49,501 --> 01:24:51,878
That gave me pause
and made me go,

1491
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:54,172
"Wait a minute, I've
seen this before.”

1492
01:24:55,465 --> 01:24:58,176
We do this all the time
in computer science.

1493
01:24:58,259 --> 01:25:01,971
Some of the ideas that
we were seeing in biology

1494
01:25:02,013 --> 01:25:06,893
that resonated with me were
such notions as error correction.

1495
01:25:06,976 --> 01:25:07,602
RICHARD GUNASEKERA:
By any chance,

1496
01:25:07,685 --> 01:25:10,897
if there's something
that is done incorrectly,

1497
01:25:10,939 --> 01:25:13,399
there's even another
protein that's able

1498
01:25:13,441 --> 01:25:15,860
to proofread and fix this.

1499
01:25:15,902 --> 01:25:17,904
[Music]

1500
01:25:29,207 --> 01:25:32,168
STEPHEN MEYER: The
existing code can be recoded,

1501
01:25:32,252 --> 01:25:35,004
it can be rewritten, it
can be edited on the fly.

1502
01:25:36,422 --> 01:25:38,216
The information
processing system

1503
01:25:38,299 --> 01:25:41,511
in the cell uses design
strategies reminiscent

1504
01:25:41,553 --> 01:25:45,223
of high-tech digital computing
with one key difference.

1505
01:25:45,265 --> 01:25:47,433
The design logic in the
cell exceeds anything

1506
01:25:47,517 --> 01:25:48,935
human engineers have produced.

1507
01:25:51,563 --> 01:25:55,441
BRENDAN DIXON:
We know now that DNA,

1508
01:25:55,483 --> 01:25:58,278
you can read it
once in one direction.

1509
01:25:59,654 --> 01:26:01,406
You can read it in
that direction again,

1510
01:26:01,447 --> 01:26:06,161
but if you start here, you get a
different gene expressed than

1511
01:26:06,244 --> 01:26:09,998
if you start here, even
though those overlap.

1512
01:26:10,039 --> 01:26:13,167
WALTER MYERS: You can read
the same segment of DNA forward

1513
01:26:13,251 --> 01:26:16,004
to get one protein and
backwards to get another.

1514
01:26:16,045 --> 01:26:20,967
BRENDAN DIXON: We've never
been able to yet make anything like

1515
01:26:21,050 --> 01:26:23,761
that happen with computers.

1516
01:26:23,845 --> 01:26:25,722
WALTER MYERS: The
code in the computer program,

1517
01:26:25,763 --> 01:26:27,599
it only does one thing.

1518
01:26:27,682 --> 01:26:29,434
You can't read
it back and forth.

1519
01:26:29,475 --> 01:26:31,769
You read it one way,
and that's what it does.

1520
01:26:31,811 --> 01:26:32,812
That's all it does.

1521
01:26:33,938 --> 01:26:37,817
ROBERT SHELDON: In DNA, we
have codes within codes within codes.

1522
01:26:37,901 --> 01:26:39,527
They're interdigitated.

1523
01:26:39,569 --> 01:26:43,323
They are multi-level, overlapping.

1524
01:26:43,364 --> 01:26:47,702
We're dealing with
a system that exhibits

1525
01:26:49,162 --> 01:26:52,165
a manifold complex design.

1526
01:26:53,666 --> 01:26:56,502
BRENDAN DIXON: The
level of complexity that we see,

1527
01:26:59,172 --> 01:27:04,385
I stand back and go,
"Wow, that's really elegant.”

1528
01:27:11,392 --> 01:27:14,187
DAVID BERLINSKI: As
soon as the immense miracle

1529
01:27:14,270 --> 01:27:18,191
of the cell is exposed,
it's an ongoing process.

1530
01:27:18,274 --> 01:27:21,819
We're far from a complete
description of even the simplest cell.

1531
01:27:22,862 --> 01:27:25,239
We see these are
not random structures.

1532
01:27:25,323 --> 01:27:27,575
They haven't been
cobbled together.

1533
01:27:27,617 --> 01:27:29,077
They haven't been
pieced together

1534
01:27:29,118 --> 01:27:32,580
by some sort of
stochastic mechanism.

1535
01:27:32,664 --> 01:27:36,084
They're exquisitely and
ingeniously put together

1536
01:27:36,167 --> 01:27:38,294
in a certain way, and if
they're not put together

1537
01:27:38,378 --> 01:27:41,130
in that certain way,
they don't work.

1538
01:28:00,316 --> 01:28:01,734
STEPHEN MEYER:
Let's take a look at what's

1539
01:28:01,818 --> 01:28:03,152
around us on planet Earth.

1540
01:28:05,238 --> 01:28:10,284
Do we see what looks like
the bare bones, minimalistic,

1541
01:28:11,619 --> 01:28:13,579
cobbling together
something by accident

1542
01:28:13,621 --> 01:28:15,623
for the sheer purpose
of ruthless survival?

1543
01:28:20,336 --> 01:28:24,090
Or do we see something
much more extravagant,

1544
01:28:24,215 --> 01:28:26,342
beautiful in its expression?

1545
01:28:48,698 --> 01:28:51,034
This is actually a big problem
in evolutionary biology.

1546
01:28:51,117 --> 01:28:53,494
It's called the problem
of gratuitous beauty.

1547
01:28:55,663 --> 01:28:58,291
Many organisms have beauty
beyond anything that's relevant

1548
01:28:58,332 --> 01:28:59,333
for their survival.

1549
01:29:08,634 --> 01:29:10,970
ROBERT SHELDON: This
deserves an explanation.

1550
01:29:11,054 --> 01:29:13,765
Many people have tried to
give a utilitarian explanation.

1551
01:29:13,848 --> 01:29:16,476
Oh, yeah, well, it's
some adaptive reason,

1552
01:29:16,559 --> 01:29:18,603
or there's some
sexual selection.

1553
01:29:18,686 --> 01:29:21,147
But I think the answer
requires something more.

1554
01:29:22,398 --> 01:29:24,650
The one who realized
the answer requires

1555
01:29:24,734 --> 01:29:26,652
something more was Aristotle.

1556
01:29:26,736 --> 01:29:31,491
He said, "No, it's the result of
some kind of rational structure

1557
01:29:31,532 --> 01:29:34,494
to the universe, dare
say even an intelligence.”

1558
01:29:37,872 --> 01:29:41,542
So, the exuberance
is one that appears

1559
01:29:41,584 --> 01:29:45,171
to be designed to
elicit our attention.

1560
01:29:45,213 --> 01:29:47,256
[Music]

1561
01:29:52,887 --> 01:29:55,473
It's one that seems to
be reaching out to us.

1562
01:29:57,350 --> 01:29:59,310
Now, here I am waxing.

1563
01:29:59,352 --> 01:30:00,728
It would seem to be mystical.

1564
01:30:10,696 --> 01:30:14,575
DAVID BERLINSKI: I must
say that these are observations,

1565
01:30:14,659 --> 01:30:17,787
they're appeals to intuition,
but not to be dismissed

1566
01:30:17,870 --> 01:30:18,871
for that reason.

1567
01:30:19,622 --> 01:30:20,748
Not to be dismissed.

1568
01:30:20,790 --> 01:30:22,542
There's something
interesting going on.

1569
01:30:25,002 --> 01:30:26,003
STEPHEN MEYER:
There's something in science

1570
01:30:26,087 --> 01:30:27,755
called the beauty principle

1571
01:30:27,839 --> 01:30:31,634
that says true theories often
convey a mathematical beauty

1572
01:30:31,676 --> 01:30:32,802
or structural harmony.

1573
01:30:36,222 --> 01:30:40,184
Upon looking at their
model of the DNA molecule,

1574
01:30:40,351 --> 01:30:42,520
Francis Crick was
quoted as saying,

1575
01:30:44,188 --> 01:30:47,066
"It's so beautiful,
it's got to be right.”

1576
01:30:47,150 --> 01:30:49,318
ROBERT SHELDON: You find
that all the time in the literature

1577
01:30:49,402 --> 01:30:53,573
today, people saying, "Beauty
is truth, and truth beauty.”

1578
01:30:53,614 --> 01:30:57,285
If we find a set of equations
that is just beautiful,

1579
01:30:57,326 --> 01:30:58,578
then it must be true.

1580
01:31:05,042 --> 01:31:09,714
SPEAKER: Sometimes the
path toward the truth leads

1581
01:31:09,797 --> 01:31:10,798
through beauty.

1582
01:31:12,008 --> 01:31:13,801
And that is an important window.

1583
01:31:16,095 --> 01:31:17,597
We need to be
willing to open that.

1584
01:31:21,017 --> 01:31:24,061
JAY RICHARDS: There's really
two fundamental hypotheses

1585
01:31:24,103 --> 01:31:25,229
about reality.

1586
01:31:25,313 --> 01:31:31,152
One is that the story
of everything is purpose,

1587
01:31:31,235 --> 01:31:34,030
that behind everything
there is an author.

1588
01:31:35,364 --> 01:31:37,158
The alternative is
that none of that is true.

1589
01:31:38,284 --> 01:31:41,704
We're the result of blind
and impersonal processes

1590
01:31:41,787 --> 01:31:43,080
that did not have us in mind.

1591
01:31:44,373 --> 01:31:47,668
So, ultimately, these questions
about the origin of matter,

1592
01:31:47,752 --> 01:31:50,838
the origin of life, the
origin of the universe,

1593
01:31:52,048 --> 01:31:56,719
come down to that fundamental
question and those two options.

1594
01:31:58,721 --> 01:32:01,891
TIMOTHY MCGREW: Richard
Dawkins has very famously said

1595
01:32:01,933 --> 01:32:04,268
that the universe
has, at bottom,

1596
01:32:04,352 --> 01:32:09,982
just those properties one would
expect if there were no design,

1597
01:32:10,024 --> 01:32:14,237
no purpose, only blind,
pitiless indifference.

1598
01:32:15,529 --> 01:32:17,698
That's an interesting claim.

1599
01:32:17,782 --> 01:32:20,534
What I find interesting about
it is that it's the right kind

1600
01:32:20,576 --> 01:32:22,536
of claim to be trying to make.

1601
01:32:22,578 --> 01:32:25,957
We want to take our
metaphysical hypotheses

1602
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:30,836
and see what consequences
they have, what they point

1603
01:32:30,878 --> 01:32:34,423
to, how well they
account for various things.

1604
01:32:34,507 --> 01:32:37,760
One of the most important
questions any of us can ask,

1605
01:32:37,843 --> 01:32:41,555
when should I change my mind?

1606
01:32:41,639 --> 01:32:42,807
Or to put it a
little bit differently,

1607
01:32:43,808 --> 01:32:46,227
if I am wrong, how
am I going to find out?

1608
01:32:50,273 --> 01:32:52,733
Consider you're walking
through the woods.

1609
01:32:54,986 --> 01:32:58,531
In a stretch of woods that you
had thought totally uninhabited,

1610
01:32:58,572 --> 01:33:02,076
you stumble upon an
old, sort of rundown cabin.

1611
01:33:04,620 --> 01:33:07,832
Looking at it, you
think it's just a relic left

1612
01:33:07,915 --> 01:33:09,542
over from a long time ago.

1613
01:33:13,879 --> 01:33:17,341
Then you go up to the door,
and you push it, and it opens.

1614
01:33:17,425 --> 01:33:21,304
And as you step inside,
you see a cup of tea,

1615
01:33:22,638 --> 01:33:26,809
still hot, steeping
on a little table

1616
01:33:26,851 --> 01:33:27,852
in the middle of the cabin.

1617
01:33:33,190 --> 01:33:36,193
When Richard Dawkins says the
universe has exactly the features

1618
01:33:36,235 --> 01:33:40,364
that we would expect if there
were at bottom no reason,

1619
01:33:40,448 --> 01:33:45,661
no purpose, what he's saying
is that there should be no signs

1620
01:33:45,745 --> 01:33:47,079
of intelligence in the universe.

1621
01:33:50,082 --> 01:33:52,626
Where Dawkins goes wrong
is that there actually is a cup

1622
01:33:52,668 --> 01:33:53,669
of tea on the table.

1623
01:33:56,505 --> 01:33:57,506
JAY RICHARDS: And so much more.

1624
01:33:58,799 --> 01:34:01,677
Recent scientific discoveries
point in the direction

1625
01:34:01,719 --> 01:34:04,638
that none of the leading
scientific materialists expected.

1626
01:34:07,266 --> 01:34:09,226
STEPHEN MEYER: No one
expected that the physical universe

1627
01:34:09,268 --> 01:34:11,479
of matter, space,
time, and energy

1628
01:34:11,562 --> 01:34:13,564
would have a definite beginning.

1629
01:34:13,606 --> 01:34:16,192
No one expected that the
universe would be finely tuned

1630
01:34:16,275 --> 01:34:18,361
against all odds to
make life possible.

1631
01:34:20,488 --> 01:34:23,240
Dawkins himself has confessed
to being knocked sideways

1632
01:34:23,324 --> 01:34:26,535
with wonder at the
miniaturized intricacy

1633
01:34:26,577 --> 01:34:29,163
of the data processing
machinery inside the cell.

1634
01:34:30,998 --> 01:34:33,542
We're not living in a vast,
meaningless universe.

1635
01:34:34,668 --> 01:34:38,214
From the forces holding the
cosmos together to the instructions

1636
01:34:38,297 --> 01:34:40,925
in the DNA in our own
bodies, we see evidence

1637
01:34:41,008 --> 01:34:43,552
that everything was
intended for a purpose,

1638
01:34:43,594 --> 01:34:45,554
that the story of
everything is not blind,

1639
01:34:45,638 --> 01:34:48,933
pitiless indifference, but the
unfolding of a grand design

1640
01:34:49,016 --> 01:34:50,601
that all of us are part of.

1641
01:34:50,684 --> 01:34:54,105
And surprisingly, perhaps, it is
science that has revealed this.

1642
01:34:54,188 --> 01:34:55,189
[Music]

1643
01:34:59,318 --> 01:35:01,654
ALLAN SANDAGE: Here
is evidence for what can only

1644
01:35:01,737 --> 01:35:04,698
be described as a
supernatural event.

1645
01:35:09,578 --> 01:35:11,538
DEAN KENYON: I don't think
you have to jump off the end

1646
01:35:11,539 --> 01:35:13,874
of the rational world
to move in the direction

1647
01:35:13,916 --> 01:35:16,710
of a frankly theistic
understanding of the origin of life.

1648
01:35:18,546 --> 01:35:21,298
ROBERT JASTROW: Is there
something else that we can imagine

1649
01:35:21,382 --> 01:35:23,467
that would lay these
questions to rest?

1650
01:35:24,468 --> 01:35:25,469
I can't see it.

1651
01:35:26,887 --> 01:35:29,557
FRED HOYLE: The question
then was what does one do about it?

1652
01:35:31,475 --> 01:35:34,145
SPEAKER: We might
rethink the story of everything.

1653
01:35:38,232 --> 01:35:41,986
The universe does not
look like it's been left to itself.

1654
01:35:46,365 --> 01:35:51,203
It bears everywhere the
fingerprints of its creator.

1655
01:36:02,465 --> 01:36:04,717
[Music]