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When you moved in there,

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it didn't have any of the amenities?

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No.

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There was no kitchen, bathroom,
stove, refrigerator...

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I wish.

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And was the building condemned, sir?

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I'm not sure.

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Oh, wow.

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I said, "That's on you."

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It's not on her. It's on you.

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[announcer] This is Judy Justice.

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[theme music playing]

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[announcer] Tracy Karlovich is suing
her former landlord, Matthew Sagarin,

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for hotel costs, moving expenses,
and a security deposit.

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[Kevin] Court come to order.

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Have a seat, please.

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- Morning.
- [Kevin] Good morning, Judge.

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Case number 1131,

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Karlovich versus Sagarin.

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- Thank you.
- You're welcome.

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[Judge Judy] Mr. Sagarin,
I'm gonna start with you, sir.

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You decided to purchase a building.

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And my understanding from your answer

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is that the building had some
sort of historical significance

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as a commercial building,
but it was currently

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- in a residential neighborhood.
- Correct, Your Honor.

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Where was it located?

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[Mathew] In a small town
called Medford, Minnesota.

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And you live there?

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[Mathew] I had previously
owned a small farm, uh, near Medford.

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I currently live in the Twin Cities.

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[Judge Judy] What prompted you
to buy this building?

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When I sold my farm,
I had a lot of equipment.

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I had an excavator and a dump truck.

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And I needed a place to store it.

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So, this is a three-quarter acre site.

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It's a large building

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and my intention was
that I would use part of it for storage

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and rent out, uh, the majority of it

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to someone who needed a blacksmith shop

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or a woodworker shop or, you know.

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- It's an industrial building?
- Correct.

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[Judge Judy] Was it ever your intention,
sir, to rehab the building

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for the purposes of asking for permits

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to use it as residences?

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I had--I had an idea. Not a real plan.

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It was an exciting opportunity

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because of, uh, all the square footage
and space involved.

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I put an ad on Craigslist
saying I have extra space,

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you know, are you a woodworker,
an artist, an artisan.

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Do you have a copy of that ad on--
that you...

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00:02:14,633 --> 00:02:15,667
[Mathew]
Unfortunately, I couldn't find it.

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It was taken down because of the time.

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[Judge Judy]
So this is what the case is about.

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Ms. Karlovich, you're in
some sort of a car business.

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Correct.

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And you were in that business
in the same town?

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No, actually, I'm coming
from 45 minutes north of this town,

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so I'm moving the business.

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[Judge Judy] Okay. What kind of place
did you have in your old town?

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A warehouse-style garage shop.

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[Judge Judy] Now when you lived
in the prior place,

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did you have separate quarters
for yourself to live in?

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Yes.

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[Judge Judy] And how much did you pay
for the warehouse where you did your work?

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[Tracy] Two thousand a month.

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[Judge Judy] And how much
did you pay for your apartment?

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It was the same area but it was separated.

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But it was the same rent.

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So you lived in the same place
where you work?

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Well, so it was separated off
to living quarters and a shop area.

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[Judge Judy] It was already set up
that way when you bought it.

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Yes.

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- Okay. Did it have a kitchen?
- Yes.

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- [Judge Judy] Did it have a bathroom?
- Yes.

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[Judge Judy] Did it have closets
in the bedroom?

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- Yes.
- [Judge Judy] And that was 2,000 a month?

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Correct.

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[Judge Judy] When you saw
the defendant's ad on Craigslist,

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how much was he asking for the property?

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I don't believe there was a price...

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[Judge Judy] Just a second.
Do you recall whether there was a price?

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Nothing mentioned.

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[Judge Judy] Okay. So you called him

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- or contacted him.
- Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.

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[Judge Judy]
Did you go and look at the space?

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It was only 45 minutes away,

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- I assume that you did.
- I did.

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And you were satisfied with the space?

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[Tracy] Well, I mean,
there was a journey to begin, for sure.

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[Judge Judy] Okay. But you were
satisfied enough to rent the space.

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[Tracy] Yes. Yes.

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On what date did you rent the space?

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[Tracy] So we began
this agreement on February 1st.

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[Judge Judy] When you rented the space,
it was a warehouse.

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Sure, yes.

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- [Judge Judy] Did it have a kitchen?
- [Tracy] No.

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[Judge Judy]
Did it have a bedroom with closets?

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[Tracy] No.

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- [Judge Judy] Did it have a bathroom?
- No.

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[Judge Judy] How much
was he charging you for rent?

102
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It was to be worked into a 1,350 a month.

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Did you sign a lease?

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Eventually, yes.

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[Judge Judy]
What date did you sign a lease?

106
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- [Tracy] Well, our verbal agreement...
- [Judge Judy] No, no.

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- [Tracy] Okay.
- May...

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[Judge Judy]
Verbal agreements don't count.

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- May 1st.
- [Judge Judy] May 1st.

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And when you saw
the apartment in February,

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between February and May,
was your property in the building?

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Yes.

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[Judge Judy] Starting when?

114
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February 1st,
but I did pay him a storage fee for it.

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How much did you pay him as a storage fee?

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Eight hundred a month.

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[Judge Judy] And where were you living
when you paid him a storage fee?

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[Tracy] So, I was staying in hotels
since February 1st.

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And what happened on May 1st?

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We signed an official lease...

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[Judge Judy] Just a--may I see the lease?

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[Judge Judy] Sure, absolutely.

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[Mathew] Your Honor, if I may?

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It sounds as if this young lady is saying

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she paid a monthly rent
from February to May.

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[Judge Judy] No,
she said she paid a storage fee.

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[Mathew] Okay. Fair enough.

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[Judge Judy] There was no lease
and she was living elsewhere.

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That's what she says.

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- We had made an agreement that...
- [Judge Judy] No, no,

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this is your agreement

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if this is a signed contract.

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- Who prepared this lease?
- [Mathew] I did.

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[Judge Judy] Where did you get it from?

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I don't remember, I'm sorry.

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You got it from the internet?

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[Mathew] My recollection is that this was

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a lease that I had used previously
and then I amended it for this purpose.

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[Judge Judy] Sir, I'm reading this lease.
I'm sure you have a copy of it.

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I don't have a copy.

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[Judge Judy] Would you show this
to Mr. Sagarin?

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Is that the lease?

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00:05:32,834 --> 00:05:34,400
- Yes.
- [Judge Judy] Okay.

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It says the term of the lease
and the occupancy.

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"The premises shall be used

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and occupied exclusively by the tenants

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and the occupants above,
except as follows...

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no part of the premises

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shall be used at any time
of the term of this agreement

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by the tenant for the purpose
of carrying on any business,

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profession, trade of any kind

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00:05:57,667 --> 00:06:01,066
or for any purpose
other than a private dwelling."

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00:06:01,133 --> 00:06:03,734
Kevin, show the defendant this.

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That's the first clause, sir.

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Okay. Yeah.

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[Judge Judy] Because, sir,
I've read it out loud,

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00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:23,667
because your position in your defense
to this action is

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she wasn't supposed to be living there,
this was a non-residential building.

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It had no CFOs to be used
for her business only,

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which she had stored from February to May,

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- and that this clause is inaccurate.
- [Mathew] Oh, I agree. And...

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Okay. But this is your problem, sir.

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- You prepared the lease...
- Correct.

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[Judge Judy] ...you signed it

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- and you're bound by it.
- Yes.

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[Judge Judy] Which is a problem for you
because if what you wanna tell me is,

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00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,133
well, it may say that but we agreed

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that the premises wasn't fit
for human habitation.

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It had no kitchen, had no bathroom,

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it had none of the amenities,
the basic amenities

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that one might expect
to find in a dwelling,

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she knew that.

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She moved in that way
and therefore I'm not responsible

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for any of the things
that she says I'm responsible for.

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Your problem is, sir,

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and I think
you're a perfectly reasonable man,

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you created a document
that is hurting you.

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- No, I--and I understand that.
- That hurt you.

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[Mathew] I will say, she had mentioned

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right from our very first conversation

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that she, she may have intended
to live there.

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And I said, "I don't know
what the upshot of that will be.

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I don't know the zoning,

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I don't know what the building
department will..."

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- I said I don't have a...
- [Judge Judy] Doesn't matter.

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- You were renting...
- I said, "That's on you."

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[Judge Judy] Just a--no, it's not on her.
It's on you.

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And I'm sympathetic to you, sir,

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00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,400
but your contract that you created

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00:07:44,467 --> 00:07:48,367
says to her that she can live there
with her son as a dwelling.

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00:07:48,433 --> 00:07:50,867
Now, when you moved in in May,

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00:07:50,933 --> 00:07:53,933
it had none of the amenities
that you would had had previously

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00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,967
when you lived in a building

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00:07:56,033 --> 00:07:58,433
that had a spare apartment with your son.

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00:07:58,500 --> 00:08:00,767
That would be a fair statement.

196
00:08:00,834 --> 00:08:02,567
That's a yes or a no.

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00:08:02,633 --> 00:08:04,467
- Yes.
- [Judge Judy] And you moved in anyway.

198
00:08:04,533 --> 00:08:06,233
- We had verbal agreements.
- [Judge Judy] Just--

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00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:08,700
you can't have a verbal agreement
when you have a written contract,

200
00:08:08,767 --> 00:08:10,467
- that's what he's bound by.
- Okay.

201
00:08:10,533 --> 00:08:13,467
[Judge Judy] My point is that you knew
when you moved in there,

202
00:08:13,533 --> 00:08:15,834
it didn't have any of the amenities

203
00:08:15,900 --> 00:08:18,033
that you and your son needed to live.

204
00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:20,233
And you knew that since February.

205
00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:21,834
They were promised.

206
00:08:21,900 --> 00:08:23,467
[Judge Judy] When you moved in in May,

207
00:08:23,533 --> 00:08:24,767
- were they there?
- Right. No.

208
00:08:24,834 --> 00:08:28,233
[Judge Judy] Did you, in May,
start to pay the 1,350 a month?

209
00:08:28,300 --> 00:08:30,332
- Yeah.
- [Judge Judy] Did you live there in May?

210
00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:31,533
[Tracy] Well, I attempted...

211
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,332
[Judge Judy] Just a second.
Did you live there in May?

212
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:34,533
Yes.

213
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:35,900
[Judge Judy]
Did your son live there in May?

214
00:08:35,967 --> 00:08:36,967
No.

215
00:08:37,033 --> 00:08:39,066
- [Judge Judy] Where did he live?
- With his father.

216
00:08:39,133 --> 00:08:41,133
- [Judge Judy] Did you live there in June?
- Yes.

217
00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,400
- [Judge Judy] Did you pay the 1,350?
- [Tracy] Yes.

218
00:08:43,467 --> 00:08:46,000
- [Judge Judy] Did you live there in July?
- [Tracy] Yes.

219
00:08:46,066 --> 00:08:48,533
- [Judge Judy] Did you pay the 1,350?
- [Tracy] Yes.

220
00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,233
[Judge Judy] When did you finally leave?

221
00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:51,567
[Tracy] October 1st.

222
00:08:51,633 --> 00:08:55,233
So May, June, July, August, and September.

223
00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:56,400
For five months,

224
00:08:56,467 --> 00:09:00,934
you stayed in the same place
and in the same condition

225
00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,233
as you saw it both in February and in May.

226
00:09:04,300 --> 00:09:05,967
- No, there was some upgrades.
- [Judge Judy] Okay.

227
00:09:06,033 --> 00:09:07,433
What were the upgrades?

228
00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:09,367
Well, the bathroom was roughed in.

229
00:09:09,433 --> 00:09:11,500
- [Judge Judy] Bathroom. What else?
- [Tracy] That's it.

230
00:09:11,567 --> 00:09:13,200
[Judge Judy] Where were you living out of?

231
00:09:13,266 --> 00:09:15,000
[Tracy] An RV in the front yard.

232
00:09:15,066 --> 00:09:17,867
[Judge Judy] Okay. So you had an RV.
And the RV had a kitchen?

233
00:09:17,934 --> 00:09:19,600
- [Tracy] Uh-hmm.
- "Uh-huh" is not an answer.

234
00:09:19,667 --> 00:09:20,734
[Tracy] I'm sorry. Yes.

235
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,333
[Judge Judy]
And it had a place for you to sleep?

236
00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:24,266
[Tracy] Yes.

237
00:09:24,333 --> 00:09:26,700
[Judge Judy] And you had a place
for your business?

238
00:09:26,767 --> 00:09:27,734
No.

239
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,500
[Judge Judy] Well,
what were you storing there?

240
00:09:29,567 --> 00:09:32,200
[Tracy]
Well, storing things for my business

241
00:09:32,266 --> 00:09:33,834
but I couldn't run a business there.

242
00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:36,033
You weren't allowed
to run a business there?

243
00:09:36,100 --> 00:09:37,867
Yes, according to that,
I guess you're right.

244
00:09:37,934 --> 00:09:40,867
(laughs) According to this, you weren't
permitted to run a business there.

245
00:09:40,934 --> 00:09:43,033
- Sure.
- [Judge Judy] Okay.

246
00:09:44,567 --> 00:09:47,567
You don't have to bother taking this down.
I'm not even hearing it.

247
00:09:48,567 --> 00:09:51,500
If they wanna talk to each other,
let 'em go to a counselor.

248
00:09:51,567 --> 00:09:54,400
I am not a counselor, I'm a judge.

249
00:09:58,967 --> 00:10:01,667
[theme music playing]

250
00:10:05,433 --> 00:10:10,100
[announcer] Tracy Karlovich claims
her former landlord, Matthew Sagarin,

251
00:10:10,166 --> 00:10:14,767
owes for hotel costs, moving expenses,
and a security deposit

252
00:10:14,834 --> 00:10:18,266
after the building she rented
was condemned by the city.

253
00:10:18,333 --> 00:10:20,934
[Judge Judy] Now,
you lived there on his property.

254
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,533
- Uh-hmm.
- [Judge Judy] In your RV

255
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,800
- with your stuff stored in his building.
- Uh-hmm.

256
00:10:25,867 --> 00:10:27,567
Did your son ever move into the RV?

257
00:10:27,633 --> 00:10:29,734
[Tracy] No, and the RV was bought
because I--

258
00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,533
the inside was not livable yet.

259
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,300
So I bought the RV
for the sake of having somewhere to be

260
00:10:36,367 --> 00:10:38,800
while things were getting done
inside the building.

261
00:10:38,867 --> 00:10:41,200
[Judge Judy] And tell me
what happened in May.

262
00:10:41,266 --> 00:10:43,367
[Tracy] So I didn't have the RV in May,

263
00:10:43,433 --> 00:10:45,333
that came in July or so.

264
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,333
[Judge Judy] Well, where were you living
in May and June?

265
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,400
[Tracy] So I attempted to live in Medford

266
00:10:51,467 --> 00:10:54,800
but there was no running water
or bathroom yet, so I was in hotels.

267
00:10:54,867 --> 00:10:57,600
[Judge Judy] Okay.
But when you signed this lease...

268
00:10:57,667 --> 00:10:58,567
[Tracy] Uh-hmm.

269
00:10:58,633 --> 00:11:01,500
[Judge Judy] ...certainly you knew
that there was no kitchen,

270
00:11:01,567 --> 00:11:04,333
bathroom, closet, bedroom,

271
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,433
- and you signed this lease.
- [Tracy] Yes.

272
00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:08,300
I'm just talking about reality.

273
00:11:08,367 --> 00:11:10,734
He made a big mistake in this lease.

274
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,533
And now I have to know
whether I'm speaking to someone

275
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,000
who was a victim of the defendant's fraud

276
00:11:18,066 --> 00:11:21,700
or whether you're
an eyes-wide-open business gal

277
00:11:21,767 --> 00:11:24,533
who understood exactly what the scoop was

278
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,266
because, according to you,
you had lived in a hotel

279
00:11:27,333 --> 00:11:29,266
from February until May.

280
00:11:29,333 --> 00:11:32,867
Isn't that what she said?
She lived in a hotel from February to May?

281
00:11:35,567 --> 00:11:37,033
[Whitney] Yes, between February and May.

282
00:11:37,100 --> 00:11:39,767
[Judge Judy] So from February to May,
before you signed this lease,

283
00:11:39,834 --> 00:11:41,165
you were living in a hotel.

284
00:11:41,233 --> 00:11:42,567
What's the name of the hotel?

285
00:11:42,633 --> 00:11:43,767
Um, the Motel Six.

286
00:11:43,834 --> 00:11:45,233
[Judge Judy] And where is that located?

287
00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:49,100
Well, I stayed in different ones,
but I have receipts for all of them.

288
00:11:49,165 --> 00:11:50,567
[Judge Judy] I don't need receipts
from all of them.

289
00:11:50,633 --> 00:11:54,266
You were staying in the same Motel Six
between February and May?

290
00:11:54,333 --> 00:11:57,367
[Tracy] I went to Florida and stayed
in a Motel Six where there was work.

291
00:11:57,433 --> 00:11:58,500
[Judge Judy] What did you do in Florida?

292
00:11:58,567 --> 00:12:00,266
[Tracy] Well, because in February...

293
00:12:00,333 --> 00:12:01,867
[Judge Judy] Not a because.

294
00:12:01,934 --> 00:12:03,867
- What were you doing in Florida...
- [Tracy] Working

295
00:12:03,934 --> 00:12:05,500
- because I do work--oh, wow.
- [Judge Judy] Just a second.

296
00:12:05,567 --> 00:12:08,000
You were in Florida working.

297
00:12:08,066 --> 00:12:10,333
- Who else lives in Florida?
- Nobody.

298
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:11,467
[Judge Judy] Nobody that you know.

299
00:12:11,533 --> 00:12:13,300
- But it's warm in Florida.
- [Tracy] Right.

300
00:12:13,367 --> 00:12:14,600
[Judge Judy] What kind of work
were you doing in Florida?

301
00:12:14,667 --> 00:12:16,433
The same kind of work I do here.

302
00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:19,333
- [Judge Judy] Which is?
- I detail and recondition vehicles.

303
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:20,667
And where were you living there?

304
00:12:20,734 --> 00:12:23,300
[Tracy] I just rented a place
for $700 a month.

305
00:12:23,367 --> 00:12:25,667
[Judge Judy] So you were
paying storage space to him.

306
00:12:25,734 --> 00:12:26,700
Uh-hmm.

307
00:12:26,767 --> 00:12:28,567
[Judge Judy] How much
was she paying in storage space?

308
00:12:28,633 --> 00:12:32,333
We had agreed on $800 a month
and that was paid twice.

309
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,400
[Judge Judy] Okay.
So between February and May,

310
00:12:36,467 --> 00:12:39,867
you paid $1,600 to store your stuff,

311
00:12:39,934 --> 00:12:41,000
'cause I believe him.

312
00:12:41,066 --> 00:12:44,433
And $700 a month
for your apartment in Florida.

313
00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:45,333
Correct.

314
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:46,800
[Judge Judy] Now you came back in May.

315
00:12:46,867 --> 00:12:50,000
- Is that when you came back to Medford?
- Yes.

316
00:12:50,066 --> 00:12:52,900
- And is that when you bought the RV?
- [Tracy] Yeah.

317
00:12:52,967 --> 00:12:54,934
- June or so when I...
- [Judge Judy] Okay, okay.

318
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,633
So that's when you bought the RV,

319
00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:59,867
- and you moved the RV onto his property.
- Yup.

320
00:12:59,934 --> 00:13:02,133
-[Judge Judy] And you lived there.
- Yup. In May, so...

321
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,166
- Oh, just a second.
- [Tracy] Wow.

322
00:13:04,233 --> 00:13:06,266
- Just a second. You lived there...
- Okay. Yeah.

323
00:13:06,333 --> 00:13:07,967
... (chuckles) on his property.

324
00:13:08,033 --> 00:13:10,367
What I'm saying to you is he

325
00:13:10,433 --> 00:13:13,734
was not smart on giving you
this lease that called you

326
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,600
and your son tenants
of a particular address

327
00:13:16,667 --> 00:13:18,800
except you were in fact living

328
00:13:18,867 --> 00:13:21,867
at that particular address in your RV.

329
00:13:21,934 --> 00:13:23,700
I mean, the RV wasn't parked
on the street,

330
00:13:23,767 --> 00:13:25,266
- it was parked on the property.
- Right.

331
00:13:25,333 --> 00:13:26,734
[Judge Judy] Okay.
So you were in fact living there.

332
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,000
- Yeah.
- [Judge Judy] Great.

333
00:13:28,066 --> 00:13:29,233
That's all I wanna know.

334
00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:31,667
Now we're gonna get to what happened

335
00:13:31,734 --> 00:13:35,033
when--what month did she move out?
October?

336
00:13:38,867 --> 00:13:40,700
- October 1st.
- 10/01.

337
00:13:40,834 --> 00:13:42,667
You wanna tell me what happened on 10/01?

338
00:13:42,734 --> 00:13:45,500
[Tracy] Uh, the building was condemned
prior to that.

339
00:13:45,567 --> 00:13:47,300
- And so...
- [Judge Judy] Okay.

340
00:13:47,367 --> 00:13:51,300
The building itself was condemned,
so you had to take out your stuff

341
00:13:51,367 --> 00:13:53,133
from the warehouse part of the building

342
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:54,867
- that had been stored there.
- Yes.

343
00:13:54,934 --> 00:13:57,467
When you were there
from May until October,

344
00:13:57,533 --> 00:14:00,433
- and your work is detailing cars...
- Uh-hmm.

345
00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:01,867
- [Judge Judy] ...were you working?
- Yes.

346
00:14:01,934 --> 00:14:04,066
- [Judge Judy] From when to when?
- [Tracy] What do you mean?

347
00:14:04,133 --> 00:14:06,400
[Judge Judy] You came back in May,
did you start working right away?

348
00:14:06,467 --> 00:14:08,233
- I work all year long.
- [Judge Judy] Great.

349
00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:11,000
And were you using tools and equipment
that had been stored?

350
00:14:11,066 --> 00:14:13,166
- [Tracy] Yes.
- [Judge Judy] So let me understand this,

351
00:14:13,233 --> 00:14:15,633
because I now am trying to figure out
what your damages are.

352
00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:18,667
Was the building condemned, sir?

353
00:14:18,734 --> 00:14:22,033
I'm not sure. I got a letter
from the building inspector after a...

354
00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:23,600
[Judge Judy] May I see--just a second.

355
00:14:23,667 --> 00:14:26,967
I'll see a copy
of the building inspector's letter.

356
00:14:30,867 --> 00:14:31,967
[Mathew] After a long period...

357
00:14:32,033 --> 00:14:33,867
Shh, I didn't ask you anything.

358
00:14:39,233 --> 00:14:42,300
Okay. So he was advised the 11th of August

359
00:14:42,367 --> 00:14:43,834
that the building was condemned.

360
00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:47,567
When did he advise you
that the building was condemned?

361
00:14:47,633 --> 00:14:50,333
[Tracy] He didn't advise me,
I advised him.

362
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,433
He never responded
to any of the notice that...

363
00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:56,266
Oh. How did you know
that the building was condemned?

364
00:14:56,333 --> 00:14:57,800
[Tracy] Because I was there.

365
00:14:57,867 --> 00:14:59,834
So they first gave us a notice saying

366
00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:02,367
we had a certain amount of days
to bring it up to code.

367
00:15:02,433 --> 00:15:03,266
[Judge Judy] Now just a second.

368
00:15:03,333 --> 00:15:06,333
So you knew before he knew
that the building itself...

369
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,467
[Tracy] Well, I'm sure he got--they said
they mailed it to him the same day,

370
00:15:09,533 --> 00:15:11,967
but he didn't respond
to any of my inquiries.

371
00:15:12,033 --> 00:15:14,834
So the building is condemned, not your RV.

372
00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:15,767
Yes.

373
00:15:15,834 --> 00:15:17,633
[Judge Judy] You were still living

374
00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:19,266
- in the RV on the premises.
- Right.

375
00:15:19,333 --> 00:15:21,500
[Judge Judy]
Did he ever evict you from the RV?

376
00:15:21,567 --> 00:15:22,433
No.

377
00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:25,667
[Judge Judy] So, what you had to do
is move your property

378
00:15:25,734 --> 00:15:28,200
that was stored or used for your business.

379
00:15:28,266 --> 00:15:30,700
[Tracy] Right.
And a two-year contract of having...

380
00:15:30,767 --> 00:15:33,066
[Judge Judy] Well, he can't help it
if the building is condemned.

381
00:15:33,133 --> 00:15:34,133
[Tracy] Well, he could've helped it.

382
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,300
They gave him a notice
of what he could do to the building

383
00:15:36,367 --> 00:15:37,300
to keep it up, but he didn't.

384
00:15:37,367 --> 00:15:40,200
[Judge Judy]
Again, he didn't. So what did you do?

385
00:15:40,266 --> 00:15:41,867
[Tracy] So now I had to move...

386
00:15:41,934 --> 00:15:43,266
[Judge Judy] Well, you didn't have to move
your RV.

387
00:15:43,333 --> 00:15:46,033
I had to move my RV
because there's a city ordinance

388
00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:48,165
that says you can only have it there
for so many days.

389
00:15:48,233 --> 00:15:50,500
Oh, I don't know
a city ordinance that says

390
00:15:50,567 --> 00:15:51,500
you can only have an RV.

391
00:15:51,567 --> 00:15:53,100
[Tracy] And in the state of Minnesota if
it's condemned.

392
00:15:53,165 --> 00:15:55,133
The statute says you have to return
at least a deposit

393
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,867
within five days so I can move.

394
00:15:56,934 --> 00:15:58,000
[Judge Judy] Oh, just a second.

395
00:15:58,066 --> 00:16:01,533
What I'm telling you was that
you in fact chose to leave and chose

396
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,133
to take your RV elsewhere.

397
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:05,734
Are you still living in an RV?

398
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,800
No. And I didn't choose to leave,
the city made me leave.

399
00:16:08,867 --> 00:16:10,133
I don't know about that.

400
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,900
The city only talks about a building
that's being condemned.

401
00:16:12,967 --> 00:16:14,000
[Tracy] And in the state of Minnesota,
if I could tell you quickly.

402
00:16:14,066 --> 00:16:17,066
- No, you can't tell me.
- Okay.

403
00:16:17,133 --> 00:16:19,900
[Judge Judy] If what you're suggesting
is in the state of Minnesota,

404
00:16:19,967 --> 00:16:23,233
you can only keep an RV
on your property for so long.

405
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:24,934
- [Tracy] Uh-hmm.
- Is that what you're telling me?

406
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,100
Not. Not at all. But...

407
00:16:26,166 --> 00:16:27,500
Oh, well. That would be interesting,

408
00:16:27,567 --> 00:16:28,800
that's what you started to tell me before.

409
00:16:28,867 --> 00:16:32,367
[Tracy] Well a verbal agreement is legal
in the state of Minnesota. It is.

410
00:16:32,433 --> 00:16:33,934
Should've stayed in Minnesota.

411
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,266
[Tracy] Uh-hmm. Okay.

412
00:16:35,333 --> 00:16:37,734
[Judge Judy] Here,
this case isn't worth $10,000.

413
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,667
You knew exactly what you were getting.

414
00:16:39,734 --> 00:16:41,300
No, I had promises
of what was supposed to be done.

415
00:16:41,367 --> 00:16:44,567
[Judge Judy] You knew--
you knew exactly what you were getting.

416
00:16:44,633 --> 00:16:46,700
[Tracy] I have verbiage
and text messages showing

417
00:16:46,767 --> 00:16:48,367
what he promised and what didn't happen.

418
00:16:48,433 --> 00:16:51,467
I have all of the evidence of that
if you would like to see it

419
00:16:51,533 --> 00:16:54,533
of him telling me that there would be
this, and this, and this done

420
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,533
so that I could run my business
and live there.

421
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,867
I have all that evidence
if you wanna see it.

422
00:16:58,934 --> 00:17:03,066
Oh, I would like to see anything
that he wrote to you.

423
00:17:03,133 --> 00:17:04,133
Sure.

424
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,266
[Judge Judy] That says
not to worry by a date certain...

425
00:17:07,333 --> 00:17:09,333
- Yeah.
- ...you will be able to live

426
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:10,367
in the building.

427
00:17:10,433 --> 00:17:12,700
- I'd like to see it.
- [Tracy] I have lots of it.

428
00:17:12,767 --> 00:17:14,066
[Judge Judy] No, just...

429
00:17:18,767 --> 00:17:22,400
[Tracy] I mean, just from the agreement
on February 1st

430
00:17:22,467 --> 00:17:24,000
is him telling me that...

431
00:17:24,066 --> 00:17:25,099
- No, no, no, no, no, no.
- [Tracy] Okay.

432
00:17:25,165 --> 00:17:26,532
Just give it to me.

433
00:17:30,834 --> 00:17:32,066
Don't speak.

434
00:17:32,133 --> 00:17:33,000
- Okay.
- [Judge Judy] Just answer my question.

435
00:17:33,066 --> 00:17:35,066
I just wanna be done now obviously.

436
00:17:35,133 --> 00:17:37,600
It's not really going my way and you're--

437
00:17:37,667 --> 00:17:39,400
- I just can't with you.
- Well, it's not going your way.

438
00:17:39,467 --> 00:17:42,100
- It was going your way with regard...
- Yeah. And the way you're talking to me.

439
00:17:42,166 --> 00:17:44,800
[Judge Judy] Just a second. Don't speak!

440
00:17:50,567 --> 00:17:53,567
[theme music playing]

441
00:17:56,633 --> 00:18:01,567
[announcer] Tracy Karlovich has accused
her former landlord, Matthew Sagarin,

442
00:18:01,633 --> 00:18:04,934
of renting her a building
that was condemned by the city.

443
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,433
Matthew says Tracy lived on his property

444
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:09,800
and stopped paying rent
for several months.

445
00:18:09,867 --> 00:18:12,600
Okay. The last conversation
you had with him,

446
00:18:12,667 --> 00:18:16,500
and this was after
the city condemned the building.

447
00:18:16,567 --> 00:18:19,367
"I'll leave clean in 30 days quietly

448
00:18:19,433 --> 00:18:23,367
for the 1350 deposit
returned to me in cash,

449
00:18:23,433 --> 00:18:27,533
plus a check written to me
of $2,000 extra.

450
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,300
I have to start over again
and I have a business.

451
00:18:30,367 --> 00:18:33,967
I think $2,000 on top
of the deposit returned to me

452
00:18:34,033 --> 00:18:38,266
is getting off easy since we make
a two-year agreement."

453
00:18:38,333 --> 00:18:41,300
Now did Ms. Karlovich give you a deposit?

454
00:18:41,367 --> 00:18:42,367
- Yes.
- [Judge Judy] How much?

455
00:18:42,433 --> 00:18:44,033
1,350.

456
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:45,433
[Judge Judy] Did you return it to her?

457
00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:46,800
- I did not.
- Why?

458
00:18:46,867 --> 00:18:49,567
[Mathew] Because she paid
the first month's rent

459
00:18:49,633 --> 00:18:53,233
of 1,350 and no rent of any kind...

460
00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:56,834
- The second month as well.
- [Mathew] ...or any month after that.

461
00:18:56,900 --> 00:18:58,133
Okay. So she paid the...

462
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,734
[Mathew]
My feeling was, and I'm not a lawyer...

463
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,834
[Judge Judy] No, no, no, no.
Don't--I don't wanna know your feelings.

464
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:04,233
- Feelings don't count.
- [Mathew] I didn't return the deposit...

465
00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:05,700
Feelings should go to--just a second.

466
00:19:05,767 --> 00:19:07,066
...because she owed me
for five months' rent.

467
00:19:07,133 --> 00:19:08,333
- Just a second. Just a second.
- Five months' rent?

468
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,266
[Judge Judy] Feelings--don't speak to him.

469
00:19:10,333 --> 00:19:11,533
Feelings don't count.

470
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,900
I deal with specifics.

471
00:19:13,967 --> 00:19:16,667
You didn't return her deposit.

472
00:19:16,734 --> 00:19:20,033
The reason you said
you didn't return her deposit is

473
00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:22,500
that she moved in in May

474
00:19:22,567 --> 00:19:25,000
- and paid the first months' rent?
- Correct.

475
00:19:25,066 --> 00:19:26,533
Did she pay in June?

476
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,533
- Yes.
- Did not.

477
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:29,834
Just--I'll come to you in a minute.

478
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:32,100
- Did she pay in July?
- [Mathew] Did not.

479
00:19:32,166 --> 00:19:33,100
- [Judge Judy] August?
- Did not.

480
00:19:33,166 --> 00:19:34,467
- [Judge Judy] September?
- Did not.

481
00:19:34,533 --> 00:19:36,934
- [Judge Judy] I'd like to see proof...
- Nor did she move out October 1st.

482
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,433
- [Judge Judy] Shh, just a second.
- Yes, I did. What does that mean?

483
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:43,133
What--you don't have to bother
taking this down.

484
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,700
I'm not even hearing it.

485
00:19:44,767 --> 00:19:47,900
If they wanna talk to each other,
let 'em go to a counselor.

486
00:19:47,967 --> 00:19:51,166
I am not a counselor, I'm a judge.

487
00:19:51,233 --> 00:19:54,367
Show me proof that you paid him rent,

488
00:19:54,433 --> 00:19:58,233
$1,350 in June,

489
00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:00,667
July, August, and September.

490
00:20:00,734 --> 00:20:04,266
That's all I need. You run a business,
you have a bank account.

491
00:20:04,333 --> 00:20:05,467
Well, I don't write a check.

492
00:20:05,533 --> 00:20:08,100
He doesn't give me a receipt,
so I don't have that.

493
00:20:08,166 --> 00:20:10,500
But I did pay in June and July, and August

494
00:20:10,567 --> 00:20:12,266
is when we got the first letter

495
00:20:12,333 --> 00:20:14,133
saying that they were gonna condemn
the building.

496
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,467
- [Judge Judy] Just a second.
- So that's when I didn't pay.

497
00:20:16,533 --> 00:20:18,600
Okay. Well, let us assume
that that's true.

498
00:20:18,667 --> 00:20:20,700
I don't--not sure if I believe you.

499
00:20:20,767 --> 00:20:22,667
But let us assume that that's true.

500
00:20:22,734 --> 00:20:25,400
I'm trying to see if you're entitled
to your deposit back.

501
00:20:25,467 --> 00:20:26,433
Sure.

502
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:28,767
[Judge Judy] You received a notice
according to you

503
00:20:28,834 --> 00:20:30,800
in August that the building was condemned.

504
00:20:30,867 --> 00:20:33,633
- Not according to me, it's here.
- Just--don't speak!

505
00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:35,400
- Sure.
- [Judge Judy] August,

506
00:20:35,467 --> 00:20:38,200
you received notice
that the building was condemned.

507
00:20:38,266 --> 00:20:41,066
- Was the RV there in August?
- [Tracy] Yes.

508
00:20:41,133 --> 00:20:42,967
[Judge Judy] Did you live there in August?

509
00:20:43,033 --> 00:20:45,834
- Yes, in an RV in the front yard.
- Was the--uh, don't,

510
00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:47,166
- don't speak.
- [Tracy] Okay.

511
00:20:47,233 --> 00:20:50,200
- [Judge Judy] Just answer my question.
- I just wanna be done now, obviously.

512
00:20:50,266 --> 00:20:52,934
It's not really going my way
and you're--I just can't with you.

513
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,400
[Judge Judy] It's not--well,
it's not going your way.

514
00:20:54,467 --> 00:20:55,767
It was going your way with regard...

515
00:20:55,834 --> 00:20:57,300
And the--and then the way
you're talking to me...

516
00:20:57,367 --> 00:20:59,200
[Judge Judy]
Just a second. It was going your way,

517
00:20:59,266 --> 00:21:02,166
I said $1,350,

518
00:21:02,233 --> 00:21:03,900
did you return her deposit?

519
00:21:03,967 --> 00:21:07,333
Which as far as I'm concerned,
you would've been entitled to

520
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,166
because there is no counterclaim
for any damage to the property.

521
00:21:11,233 --> 00:21:13,667
But his response is "I didn't return it,"

522
00:21:13,734 --> 00:21:16,300
not claiming damage
but he said you stopped paying rent.

523
00:21:16,367 --> 00:21:18,000
And you clearly did.

524
00:21:18,066 --> 00:21:21,433
Stop paying rent for at least,
according to you, two months.

525
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:24,900
You used his premises
and did not pay rent for two months.

526
00:21:24,967 --> 00:21:28,000
He didn't do any of the things
that he promised that he was gonna do.

527
00:21:28,066 --> 00:21:30,934
[Judge Judy] Okay.
This is not the case of being a victim.

528
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,333
- You knew exactly what you were buying.
- No, I didn't.

529
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,433
- Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
- I made an agreement with somebody

530
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:38,433
which is legal in our state.

531
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:40,333
Yes, I have the lease.

532
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,934
The lease says
that you were renting his property

533
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,800
as a residence with no business.

534
00:21:44,867 --> 00:21:48,467
I'm holding him to that lease,
and I'm holding you to that lease.

535
00:21:48,533 --> 00:21:50,633
I said to him that was a huge mistake.

536
00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:52,767
I'm holding you to the same lease,

537
00:21:52,834 --> 00:21:57,266
which is you were a tenant,
no business, tenant, resident only.

538
00:21:57,333 --> 00:22:00,467
And for the time
that you lived at that address,

539
00:22:00,533 --> 00:22:03,133
you lived in an RV at his address,

540
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,900
it's not a public street.

541
00:22:04,967 --> 00:22:07,166
You in fact lived someplace

542
00:22:07,233 --> 00:22:10,633
and had the benefit
of being near your tools

543
00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:14,734
where you worked for the months
that the lease provided for.

544
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:15,934
Wow.

545
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,567
So you have no case. It's dismissed.
We're done. Thank you very much.

546
00:22:18,633 --> 00:22:21,333
- [Kevin] Court is adjourned.
- Thank you, Your Honor.

547
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,300
We had a verbal agreement
starting in February and I...

548
00:22:25,367 --> 00:22:26,767
No, I, I think she was honest.

549
00:22:26,834 --> 00:22:28,333
She wanted to run a business
and live there.

550
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,633
Completely have lost my business
and I have nowhere to live now.

551
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:33,467
It was a really unfortunate situation.

552
00:22:33,533 --> 00:22:35,767
Because they showed up,
it doesn't even matter now.

553
00:22:35,834 --> 00:22:37,300
It's not anything I feel good about.

554
00:22:37,367 --> 00:22:39,734
I mean, it doesn't matter.
I don't even wanna talk about it.

555
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,600
Yeah, no question,
it was a learning experience.

556
00:22:42,967 --> 00:22:47,667
[Sarah] I think that case was a great
demonstration of why non-lawyers

557
00:22:47,734 --> 00:22:50,767
should be very careful
when they're drafting legal documents.

558
00:22:50,834 --> 00:22:53,834
And it seemed like
he had been familiar with leases,

559
00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:57,867
I think he said he had sort of used
a previous lease and amended it.

560
00:22:57,934 --> 00:23:02,100
But such a big clause to miss
in the beginning can,

561
00:23:02,166 --> 00:23:04,266
as we just saw, ruin an entire case.

562
00:23:04,333 --> 00:23:07,233
[Judge Judy] Yes, the terms of the lease
were probably a lease in an apartment

563
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:09,900
- that he took at some point. (chuckles)
- Uh-hmm.

564
00:23:09,967 --> 00:23:11,867
[Judge Judy] I think when both parties

565
00:23:11,934 --> 00:23:15,033
relied on something
that was not factual in a lease...

566
00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:16,700
- Uh-hmm.
- ...that a court has to look at it

567
00:23:16,767 --> 00:23:18,967
and say, "Well, what damages
did you suffer?"

568
00:23:19,033 --> 00:23:22,100
The lease itself as it was,
I was holding him to--

569
00:23:22,166 --> 00:23:24,900
with his feet to the fire,
so at least I looked at it.

570
00:23:24,967 --> 00:23:27,433
I, I actually said to him,
"Well, you wrote the lease."

571
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:31,367
And a document is viewed
most harshly in the law

572
00:23:31,433 --> 00:23:33,834
against the person
who drafted the document.

573
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:37,967
So, he was in trouble
until I pivoted to the plaintiff.

574
00:23:38,033 --> 00:23:41,900
And it was clear that she was
thoroughly aware of what was going on.

575
00:23:41,967 --> 00:23:44,500
Even in the documents she prepared for me,

576
00:23:44,567 --> 00:23:49,200
she said, "Well, I want
my security deposit back and $2,000."

577
00:23:49,266 --> 00:23:51,500
But she had actually used his premises.

578
00:23:51,567 --> 00:23:52,633
- She used it to live.
- And she...

579
00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:54,100
[Judge Judy]
I mean, the address is the same.

580
00:23:54,166 --> 00:23:57,433
If somebody was leaving mail,
that's where they would leave mail.

581
00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:59,700
So, she was getting mail there,
she was living there,

582
00:23:59,767 --> 00:24:01,300
she was cooking there,
she was sleeping there.

583
00:24:01,367 --> 00:24:03,200
And she knew of the condition as well,

584
00:24:03,266 --> 00:24:05,500
so it wasn't a deceitful lease
that was signed.

585
00:24:05,567 --> 00:24:07,300
- No, no. Right.
- [Sarah] She had been to the premises.

586
00:24:07,367 --> 00:24:09,533
She knew the state
in which it was in, so...

587
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,567
[Judge Judy] Right. And she appeared
to me to be a clever lady.

588
00:24:12,633 --> 00:24:15,633
She went down to Florida
during the winter when it was cold.

589
00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:18,166
Anyway, I think that the outcome was fair.

590
00:24:18,233 --> 00:24:21,834
She ate the steak,
she lived there, you pay the rent.

591
00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:23,100
Agreed.

592
00:24:24,333 --> 00:24:27,834
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593
00:24:32,667 --> 00:24:35,667
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