You want your money back for a bus that you bought?
Yes, ma'am.
What would be in your mind to say,
"I'm gonna pay more than double
what they paid for this bus."
I'm assuming he was trying to make a profit.
[laughing]
I'm not a business person.
Common sense is my business.
[announcer] This is Judy Justice.
[theme music playing]
[announcer] Rodney Lazar is suing entertainers
Michael Brown and Lucy Morgenstern
for a refund of a bus he purchased from them.
[Kevin] Court come to order, all rise.
Have a seat, please.
Hello, Judge.
Case number 1151,
Lazar versus Brown, Morgenstern.
Thank you.
[Judge Judy] Okay.
Could we do show and tell someplace else, Kevin?
- [Kevin] Yes, ma'am. - [Judge Judy] You wanna remove that?
- [Kevin] Yes. - [Judge Judy] Thank you.
Perfect.
You want your money back
for a bus that you bought from the defendants,
that's what the case is about.
This thing that was on the table
was your business.
And I'm not interested in your business.
We're not here to advertise your business, you understand that?
- Uh-hmm. - [Judge Judy] Perfect.
Ms. Morgenstern, I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions.
- Is he still your boyfriend? - He is not.
[Judge Judy] Not? When did he stop being your boyfriend?
March of 2020.
[Judge Judy] When did you purchase-- you, purchase this bus?
Give me the month and year.
It was just July of 2021.
So it was at a time when you were no longer a couple?
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] And you purchased
the bus from whom?
From a public auction.
Is this the first time you went to a public auction?
- No. - [Judge Judy] You've been there before?
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] Yes.
And so, you buy things there
at a public auction and you flip them?
- I wouldn't say that. I... - [Judge Judy] What would you say?
...buy for personal use because I'm a musician
and bigger vehicles happen to be of my need for my band.
Okay. Well, you bought this one in July of 2021
and it's a bus.
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] And you bought it
for the express purpose of using it in a band?
- Correct. - [Judge Judy] Is the co-defendant
also a member of the band?
He's involved in the management, and yes.
[Judge Judy] Great.
When did you sell the bus to the plaintiff?
August of 2021.
[Judge Judy] How much did you pay for it at public auction
when you bought it in July of 2021?
We had paid a few thousand dollars.
[Judge Judy] No, I don't wanna hear a few thousand dollars.
We're not talking about a decade ago,
we're talking about a few months ago.
How much did you pay for it at auction,
July, and then I'm gonna ask for the exact date that you purchased it?
It was about 3,000 or so with tax.
What year bus was it?
It was a 2007.
Had it been registered when you bought it?
Yes, it had recent registration,
- uh, within a, uh, a few months-- - [Judge Judy] You have paperwork on that?
The paperwork was all together with what the purchase--
[Judge Judy] I'd like to see it.
It was given to him.
- May I see it, please? - [Rodney] Yes.
There you go, sir.
Sell to Lucy Morganstern,
June 24th, 2021.
That sounds right.
- And she gave you these papers? - [Rodney] Yes.
- Oh, actually, he did. - [Judge Judy] He did?
I'm beginning to feel less sorry for you, sir.
You may win anyway, but I'm beginning to feel
less sorry for you because this says
that Lucy bought this bus for $2,600
on June 24th, 2021
and she sold it to you in August?
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] So that you were aware
that she bought it from a towing company
couple of months before.
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] Yes.
So, your lawsuit is for a refund
on a bus sold under false pretenses,
that's what it says here,
and it says that you found this bus
on a Facebook market page,
you met with Mark, that would be you.
- Michael. - [Judge Judy] Michael?
- Sorry. - [Judge Judy] Michael.
And test drove the bus,
he said it was in excellent condition,
negotiated a price of $6,700.
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] Well,
wouldn't it give you a clue...
if you knew that it was purchased by them
within six, seven weeks before you purchased it
and they paid $2,600 for it,
what would be in your mind--
just asking,
what would be in your mind to say,
"I'm gonna pay more than double
what they paid for this bus."
Why would you do that?
[Rodney] On the documents that I've seen,
had it at over 50 something hundred
like 5,200
and the reason that I paid him what I did
is the documents that I saw showed that
and, uh, you know, I'm assuming he was trying to make a profit.
[laughing]
- [Rodney] It's-- - No. No.
You're in business, right?
You brought your plant to show me
that you're in business.
You make pretty plants with succulents.
I'm not a business person,
anybody that knows me knows
that business is not my business.
- Common sense is my business. - [Rodney] Uh-hmm.
[Judge Judy] Somebody buys something
from a tow--how old are you?
- I'm 50. - [Judge Judy] You're 50.
How long have you been in business?
Twenty-seven years.
[Judge Judy] Do you have a place of business?
- [Rodney] No. - [Judge Judy] Do you operate
- out of where? - My home.
- [Judge Judy] Do you own your home? - Yes.
- When did you purchase it? - [Rodney] 2008.
[Judge Judy] How much did you pay for it?
On national TV?
[Judge Judy] That's where we are, that's where you came.
[Rodney] Four hundred and sixty thousand.
- [Judge Judy] I assume you had a lawyer? - No.
[Judge Judy] You did it yourself with a real estate agent?
- [Rodney] Yes. - [Judge Judy] You live in California?
- Yes, I do. - [Judge Judy] I know,
they have this bizarre thinking where real estate agents
act as lawyers, I don't quite understand it,
seems to be working.
Everything here in California is a little bizarre.
Anyway, you had no lawyer, but you spent half a million dollars
for a home in 2008
which must be at least worth twice that now.
- [Rodney] Yes, ma'am. - Right?
So, you're a pretty smart guy and you make money
from whatever you do, right?
Making these plants,
$2,600,
that's what they paid for it, from a towing company.
So I would say to myself, "Towing?
Towing means it was left somewhere...
abandoned somewhere,
why would I pay somebody
$6,700
for something that they just paid $2,600 for?"
I would say that a guy who is smart,
works out of his home, has no expenses,
doesn't have a business other than making succulent plants
and delivering them which is good, smart for you,
wouldn't do that, that's my gut.
So I'm feeling less sorry for you
if that's the case, in any event.
Okay.
Did you register the car, Ms. Morgenstern?
- I did not. - [Judge Judy] In your name?
No, I hadn't yet.
Just a second, you haven't?
So when you gave it to him,
you gave him the same title that you had,
you just signed it or you did because you did the transaction?
I was in possession of the paperwork, yes.
[Judge Judy] So you did the transaction?
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] So that's a yes?
Did you ever tell him that the band used the bus
for business going to and from city to city?
Did you tell him that, that's either a yes or a no?
No.
What did you tell him?
That we had used buses
and that's why we own this bus because--
[mumbling]
What you're just giving me.
What did you tell him
that this face is gonna believe?
[announcer] Rodney Lazar claims entertainers
Michael Brown and Lucy Morgenstern
sold him a bus that is unable to be smog tested.
Did you tell him that? That's either a yes or a no.
- No. - [Judge Judy] What did you tell him?
That we had used buses
and that's why we own this bus because--
[mumbling]
What you're just giving me.
What did you tell him
that this face is gonna believe?
That we had this bus in purpose
to take it on tour as we've done.
[Judge Judy] Well, now you don t know--
all of a sudden you're having trouble with English
when you're trying to put the sentence together
to tell me what you told him about the bus.
- Uh-hmm. - [Judge Judy] Not buses that we use,
this bus.
What did you tell him when he came to look at this bus?
You thought that this was gonna easy, folks?
- This is not easy. - [Michael] Uh-hmm.
I told him that we bought this bus as a tour bus.
[Judge Judy] Okay.
And did you tell him about the condition of it?
The condition was listed on the ad.
[Judge Judy] And what did it say?
I have the ad here--
[Judge Judy] Well, just tell me what it said.
It says it runs and drives great.
- And it-- - Runs and drives great.
You live in the state of California, right?
- Yes, I do. - [Judge Judy] When you bought the bus,
Ms. Morgenstern, he does the business, right?
But you paid the $2,600?
It was shared. The, um--
- [Judge Judy] Who went to the-- - The purchase was--
You went to the auction?
Listen to me, who went to the auction?
Um, it was online.
[Judge Judy] Online? Whose computer were you using?
We're together I think, I-- I'm not really sure if it was mine or--
- [Judge Judy] Try to think. - [Lucy] I think Mike's.
- It would've been my phone. - It was I think his phone, yeah.
- [Judge Judy] Your what? - My phone.
- [Judge Judy] Yours? - Yes.
[Judge Judy] You bought it and then you went to pick it up?
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] Who took it to register it?
Now you buy it in July,
that's what it says here, doesn't it?
Did I say July? Did I say July?
Uh, no. June, right?
- June. - [Judge Judy] June.
You buy it in June,
now you got this $2,600 investment
and you have this title...
how many other cars does the band have, Ms. Morgenstern?
Currently I don't have a vehicle, um--
[Judge Judy] You don't?
Does the band have a vehicle?
There's Mike's van that has been used
for some of our events
but I have to borrow that or use it with Mike when--
[Judge Judy] Okay. Is it registered in the state of California?
- [Lucy] Yes. - [Judge Judy] Registration current?
Yes.
Now you bought this online, who took the money
out of the bank to buy it?
- We both did. - [Judge Judy] How much did you put in?
I put in 1,300.
So, we split it.
Who got the bus from the towing company?
- Michael did. - [Judge Judy] On what date, Michael,
did you get the bus from the towing company?
[Michael] It would be the date that you have listed on the paperwork.
[Judge Judy] 26th?
June, then June 26th.
- Did you drive it? - Yes.
[Judge Judy] Where did you drive it from and to?
[Michael] From the towing lot
and I drove it to where I was staying in Culver City.
[Judge Judy] How long was that?
- How long of a drive? - [Judge Judy] Yeah.
No more than 18 miles.
So now it's home on the 26th, you have the paperwork,
do you wanna tell me why you didn't register it the whole month of July?
Don't look over there!
- [Michael] Uh-hmm. - Uh-huh.
Look over here.
The bus was missing a, uh, glass piece for the door
and I wanted to get the bus all fixed up and nice before I did that.
So did you do that? You had a whole month to do it.
- I did. - [Judge Judy] And then?
- And then I-- - [Judge Judy] But while
you're doing that, you register it
because now you've paid $2,600 for it.
[Michael] Uh-hmm.
[Judge Judy] And you're working on it and investing money in it.
- Uh-hmm. - [Judge Judy] So you'd want to insure it?
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] Did you insure it?
Uh, no, I did not.
[Judge Judy] Because it wasn't registered.
- Correct. - [Judge Judy] In order to register it,
you had to have it smogged in the state of California.
- Uh-hmm. - [Judge Judy] Uh-huh is not an answer.
Yes, Your Honor.
Did you take it to be smogged?
No, I did not.
[Judge Judy] When the plaintiff took the bus in
to be smogged,
he says that it couldn't be smogged,
he says he spoke to you about that,
- is that what you're testifying, sir? - Yes, ma'am.
[Judge Judy] And tell me when that conversation took place.
- Uh-hmm. - Yes, uh, it took place on, uh,
the Friday after we had purchased it.
That was the day that I went to the DMV.
What's the date?
[Rodney] I think August 13th, around.
[Judge Judy] August 13th, was that a Friday?
- Friday the 13th? - Yes, it's on the 13th, it was a Friday.
So you went to the DMV.
According to you, there were some outstanding fines.
- Yes, ma'am. - Can you show me proof
of when those fines were?
Were they either before they purchased the van or after?
I think it was all a part of before, uh,
- because there was a lot-- - [Judge Judy] That's why it was towed?
[Rodney] What he had told me was one of their band mates
had left it on the street and it had been towed so they bought it back,
that's what the story he had told me.
Band mates left it on the street,
- is that what he told you? - [Rodney] That's what he told me.
[Judge Judy] You do have to understand, sir,
that you're gonna really have to show me
so that I believe you, that you paid $6,700 for this bus.
I would like to see proof
that it could not be smogged
and when you called Mike,
what he told you about the bus
not being able to be smogged,
tell me what he told you.
[Rodney] Mike first, uh--
he just didn't return my calls for a while
and then I had to reach out to Lucy.
Lucy and I had a fantastic talk for about 30 minutes.
She was very kind, let me get my points across,
um, and then she said she would follow back up with me.
When I spoke to Michael, it was very, um--
it was very angry conversation.
- He was angry? - [Rodney] It was an anger conversation.
I asked him, I said, "You told me it was smogged."
He said, "That's what I thought it was. It's supposed to be in the system."
So, I said, "Okay."
Well, that's our reality is right now, we have sold--
[Judge Judy] Just--one second-- just a second.
He said to you,
"It should've been in the system, I thought it was smogged?"
Yes, ma'am.
That I believe.
- I have text messages--sorry. - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
[Judge Judy] I'd like to see the text messages.
No, no, don't give me a whole bunch of junk.
- You want the-- - [Judge Judy] I'm talking to you.
I'm talking--don't give me a whole bunch of junk.
I asked you about the conversation that you had with him
about smogging.
Show me relevance.
Sorry, Your Honor.
[Judge Judy] "Michael, you said it passed smog."
So when you purchased it,
- he told you it had passed smog? - Yes, ma'am.
"But you didn't give me the paperwork."
He says--you say,
"It should be in the system from the previous smog."
- [Rodney] Yes. - What previous--shh.
What previous smog?
That's your answer,
"It should be in the system from the previous smog."
[Michael] I have the car fact showing that it was smogged in April.
Who owned it in April?
The previous owner.
- Do you know who that was? - [Michael] No, I do not.
If somebody hurts themselves
on, in, under, around the bus,
it's in your name,
somebody will get a judgment against you,
they're gonna take your license away to drive, do you understand?
[announcer] Rodney Lazar has accused the defendants
Michael Brown and Lucy Morgenstern
of selling him a bus that is unable to be smog tested.
[Judge Judy] Okay. So, it wasn't that a band member left it on the street--
- No, that's a lie. - [Judge Judy] And then--
so it was previously smogged, not by you?
- Correct. - [Judge Judy] When it was done,
I believe it was in April, you say,
"I hope that is still valid."
And you say, "Please call me.
AAA said this was a lien sale
that was never properly paid for,
need to go to DMV and want you to go with me.
I hope you're not ignoring my calls.
I can't even get an appointment.
I will go there first thing Monday and do my best,
but please be cool if there are issues."
And then you write, "No problem.
I'll be available if you need me Monday."
And he says, "The bus was not smogged
and your mailbox is full."
That's what you say to him.
I've heard that.
I don't believe some people had full mailboxes.
"The bus is under your name right now
and you are responsible for it if anything happens."
That's still true 'cause you haven't registered it.
Correct.
(chuckles) And you say to him, very smart,
"In case there is an accident and I get hurt,
you are responsible, so let's do this ASAP."
And it says, "There's no catalytic converter."
I have no idea what that is.
That is the, uh, very main component of the exhaust system
that cleans the smoke, it-- there's a big rash of people
stealing them right now and in fact I have a picture I can show you
where the catalytic converter has been taken out
and put back in with a pipe and it was welded in,
and it's not a new weld, it's an old weld.
I could shed some light potentially.
A catalytic converter must be properly installed
for them to even do a smog check, there's no--
you can't do a smog check without that converter.
It's the filtration system for--
Your Honor, if I may?
Um, the April reference that he's making to
is April of 2020.
So he was referring to a smog check that was over a year...
- That was done-- - [Rodney] ...and a quarter old.
Got it. Got it.
Is that right?
- Correct. - [Judge Judy] April of 2020?
- A previous smog, 2020, yeah. - [Judge Judy] 2020?
- Yes. - You still have the bus?
- Yes, ma'am. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
Catalytic converter is $3,000?
[Rodney] It's $2,400 for the part,
it's about $300 for installation and tax,
and the part is on back order all over the country,
this is happening everywhere.
[Judge Judy] Uh-hmm.
Where were you gonna take this bus, sir, to be smogged?
I was gonna take it to a shop 'cause I didn't believe what he was saying.
Did you ever tell him
that you would take it to your mechanic who could smog it?
- What do you mean? - [Judge Judy] Did you ever tell him
that you could take the bus
to your mechanic who could smog test it...
so that he could register it the way it was?
- No. - Well, he's texting you a lot, Michael,
because he has a frustration
that he can't do anything with this bus.
For some bizarre reason, you paid $6,700 for this bus.
I still don't understand why.
By the way, you gave it to him in cash?
I gave him $3,700 in cash and $3,000 on Venmo,
and I have receipts for all that.
- I'd like to see it. - [Rodney] Yes.
Here's the Venmo and here's my receipt
for the, um--I--I had $700 cash at home
and I went to the bank and withdrew $3,000 to give it to him.
And the timestamp is on the receipt for the 3,000.
[Judge Judy] Sarah, am I correct that you're not allowed
to knowingly sell a car in California that can't be smogged?
So, yeah. The California Vehicle Code,
it prohibits modifications to the emissions control
and also, you need to give the new owner a valid smog certification
in order to sell,
even if you're selling it as is, it's still a requirement.
- The bus is still at your home? - [Rodney] Yes.
And so is the oil.
- [Judge Judy] The oil? - That's leaking.
[Judge Judy] It's leaking?
Did you pay the fines on the bus?
I did, but I was able to contact DMV and get it refunded.
- And you did get a refund? - [Rodney] Yes, ma'am.
Okay. Good.
Judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $6,700.
We're finished. Go get your bus, it belongs to you.
And I'm gonna tell you, this is what's gonna happen,
Ms. Morgenstern.
This bus is in your name,
he has not transferred it to his name yet.
Right now, the bus is parked at his home.
So, I would suggest you go pick it up very fast,
I'm gonna tell you why,
because if a child gets into that bus
and something happens to that child
because it's sitting there,
it's in your name,
they're gonna come after you, put it on the street, do you understand?
It no longer belongs to you, it's theirs.
Anything that happens to that is yours,
if it gets ticket,
they're gonna take your license away to drive,
do you understand?
If somebody hurts themselves
on, in, under, around the bus,
it's in your name,
somebody will get a judgment against you
and make sure 'cause this is forever,
this tape is forever, they will come after you.
So I would suggest he's gonna park this bus some place,
is there a local police department where you live?
Uh, yes, there is. I can drop it off at the Topanga Station.
Great. On what date can you drop it off?
I can drop it off today.
Oh, well, let's wait until tomorrow.
- You got it. - [Judge Judy] Perfect.
Tomorrow between 9:00 and noon,
I suggest you get your behind to the police station
and pick up your bus, do you understand?
- Yes, ma'am. - [Judge Judy] Very good.
We're done here, thank you.
[Kevin] Court is adjourned.
I had thought that the smog may have been valid from the previous smog.
Once I realized that he wasn't returning my text messages and my phone calls,
it became evident that this was uncomfortable.
I'm a busy man and work
and the text message shows that I received
over 30 within an hour period.
The text messages he shows don't have timestamps.
Those were throughout multiple days and times.
I had wanted to keep it and I really love that bus.
[Judge Judy] You see, sometimes you change your mind.
I still don't understand
why he spent so much money for the bus.
I mean, his explanation was that it was--he looked online...
- Uh-hmm. - [Judge Judy] ...saw what it was worth,
and it was--but there was something very shifty
about this guy, Michael.
- Yeah. - [Judge Judy] I learned,
only in the last several years,
that it was against the law to-- in California
to sell a car, even as a private person,
that was incapable of being smogged.
- Yeah. - And this bus
was incapable of being smogged.
I looked into the statute and learned
there's many exceptions to that rule for newer vehicles,
purchased brand new from a dealer within the past four years,
those types of cars don't have to be smogged right away.
So there are exceptions, but this bus was exactly
who the statute was made for,
to ensure that people were not sold
older vehicles without them being smogged first.
Smogged first or capable of being smogged.
Exactly.
Anyway, and I'm sympathetic
because he said this catalytic converter--
- Yeah. - ...there's no product being moved now...
- [Sarah] Yeah. - ...anywhere in the world.
- So, he can't even get the part. - [Sarah] Uh-hmm.
[Judge Judy] And I have a feeling that that's why Michael
- didn't register the car. - [Sarah] Uh-hmm.
Resold it very quickly.
[Judge Judy] Very quickly. You know, within six weeks.
- There's no other explanation of that. - [Sarah] Yeah.
[Judge Judy] So, I think
- the right thing happened. - Me, too. I agree.
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