You hired the defendant as a wedding planner.
Correct.
[Judge Judy] Prior to the wedding, she quit.
- That's not true. - I have facts.
Did you have a written contract?
- We did not. - We were good friends.
- I just took her word. - That's a bad idea.
- That's correct. - Don't tell me I'm correct.
I'm always correct.
[announcer] This is Judy Justice.
[theme music playing
[announcer] Jennifer Perry is suing her former friend
and wedding coordinator, Carla Williams
for a refund for wedding planning services
and the cost of decorations.
[Kevin] Court come to order. All rise.
Have a seat, please.
[Kevin] Hello, judge.
Case 1104, Perry versus Williams.
- Thank you. - You're welcome.
[Judge Judy] Ms. Perry, you hire d the defendant
as a wedding planner for your daughter's wedding.
- That's correct. - You had known her before.
We used to be coworkers about 20 years ago.
We did have a friendship outside of work. Yes.
[Judge Judy] Tell me when your daughter's wedding was scheduled.
- June 12th of 2021. - So it took place?
- It did. - That's your daughter.
[Jennifer] No. She wasn't able to travel today.
[Judge Judy] Okay. In what month did you hire the defendant?
November 29th of 2020.
- Did you have a written contract? - We did not.
[Judge Judy] Is there any reason why you did not have a written contract?
- This is your business. - That's correct.
And according to you, you've been in this business for a long time.
- That's correct. - [Judge Judy] Do you have a contract
- with other clients? - Yes, ma'am.
[Judge Judy] And is there any reason why you didn't have a contract
- with the plaintiff? - I did.
Well, because Jennifer and I are--well, we were good friends
and um I just took her word, so and that's why we weren't...
That's a bad idea, Ms. Williams. Of course, this is business.
- Yeah, exactly. - And if this is your business,
- you're supposed to have a contract. - Correct.
And you're supposed to have a contract.
You signed a venue for your daughter's wedding?
Correct.
[Judge Judy] Did you have a contract?
- Yes, ma'am. - Did you have a caterer
- for your daughter's wedding? - I believe so.
My daughter coordinated that with her father, but I believe so.
So, her father paid for the caterer?
Correct.
[Judge Judy] I have to assume there was a contract.
- Unless you--her father does... - I would assume so as well.
- I think you're correct. - [Judge Judy] What did you pay for?
- I paid for Carla's services. - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
- Okay. What else? - I paid for the decorations.
What else?
I helped with the bachelorette party.
- That I don't care about. - Um primarily, Carla's service...
[Judge Judy] I wanna know--Ms. Perry?
Yes.
[Judge Judy] Exactly what did you pay for?
- [Jennifer] I paid a lot. - You paid for the decorations.
- Correct. - [Judge Judy] Which were according
to what I read, maybe a couple of hundred bucks.
What I paid for through Carla. Yes, ma'am.
[Judge Judy] Was a couple of hundred bucks.
And the defendant's services were $1,100.
- Yes, ma'am. - [Judge Judy] How many people
- were at the wedding? - Close to a hundred.
- Was there a dinner? - There was.
- At a venue? - Yes.
- [Judge Judy] With music? - DJ.
- [Judge Judy] DJ. - Uh-hmm.
- Cake? - Yes.
[Judge Judy] So, your contribution to this was $1,100.
I'm just setting it clearly and you were supposed to provide
the wedding planner who would do the arrangement for flowers,
who would arrange for a DJ.
Okay. So it is your claim
that while you paid her $1,100,
which I don't think you deny that she paid you $1,100.
- Correct. - [Judge Judy] Prior to the wedding,
you claimed she quit. The defendant says that you fired her.
- That's not true. - That's what I'm here to find out.
The total cost that Ms. Williams quoted you
for her services was how much?
- The number changed. - [Judge Judy] Just a s--
how much was the last number
she quoted you for the job?
- $1,100. - [Judge Judy] No. That's wrong.
That's not true. Be careful what you say
'cause at this point, we're not in a good place.
She said she quoted you $3,882.
[Jennifer] That was never provided to me.
Never, never have I seen that number.
- This is the first time... - [Carla] That's not true.
[Jennifer] ...I'm hearing of that number.
[Judge Judy] Okay. Very good.
So, you tell me the number
that she quoted you to do the entire job.
The entire job was $750
and then it was going to be an additional $100
t-to rent a love table that she had.
As we proceeded on, she tacked on an additional $230
to cover the rental of additional items that my daughter wanted to use.
Collectively, we came up at $1,100 to which she has been paid fully.
[Judge Judy] Now, in going over what she was going to do,
one of the things that she was going to do
was to hire a DJ that I assume
the bride's father was going to pay for
or were you supposed to pay for the--just--
okay, very careful what you say to me because right now, Ms. Perry,
you're doing that lilt from foot to foot
which makes me a little uncomfortable.
- Okay. Sorry. - [Judge Judy] Do you understand?
- Yes. - No, it's an uncomfortable thing
because you're trying to get where I'm going,
which is not an easy place to get to
because I have five children,
all of whom have been married at least once
and planned weddings and know what wedding planners do
and what their function is.
So, I've had experience.
- Understood. - [Judge Judy] And the country
is pretty much the same.
Ms. Williams' problem is she runs a business
and she didn't do a contract, a written one.
- Can I speak? - [Judge Judy] So what I asked you
was very simply as part of your arrangement
with your ex-husband who was paying for the wedding.
- He was paying for some of... - [Judge Judy] Who was just--
he was paying for the vast majority of the wedding.
- That's not true. - [Judge Judy] According to you
because he was paying for a hundred people for food.
[Jennifer] I said for the caterer, correct.
For the--for the--he paid for the food.
- The caterer.
- [Judge Judy] He paid for the venue. - No.
The, the venue was paid for by the groom's parents.
Okay. So, the groom's parents paid for the venue.
- Uh-hmm. - [Judge Judy] Your ex-husband paid
- for the food for a hundred people. - Okay.
And you're, you're telling me
that your total responsibility so far
was the $1,100 that you paid to the defendant.
- Yeah. - [Judge Judy] And my question
- to you was... - That's not my entire responsibility
- but that was the obligation... - My question--no, my question to you
was as part of your responsibility with the wedding planner,
she was going to acquire a DJ.
- Which would need to be proved. - [Judge Judy] Stop. Just listen.
My question is who was supposed to pay for the DJ?
- That discussion did not take place. - [Judge Judy] Just a--
oh, I'm not believing you at all.
- I'm not believing... - Why is that?
[Judge Judy] Why, why is that? Because this whole case revolves--
put your hand down. This whole case revolves around the DJ
- and a problem that I'm just... - [Jennifer] That's correct.
Don't tell me I'm correct. I'm always correct.
Except when she says I'm not correct.
You may not consider it a meeting,
but when you bring things over to her house
and discuss with the event planner where you want these...
[Jennifer] That was a friend, not a meeting.
I'm--don't, don't try to talk over me, madam.
[theme music playing]
[announcer] Jennifer Perry claims her former friend
and wedding coordinator, Carla Williams,
owes for a refund for wedding planning services.
Carla is countersuing for breach of contract,
lost wages, and defamation of character.
[Judge Judy] Okay. So, if you were supposed to pay
for the DJ as part of your responsibility for this wedding,
as part of the wedding planning thing,
and what happened here is that the groom's aunt,
they said, we could get the DJ for free.
- So, we're not going to use her DJ. - And I'm sorry...
[Judge Judy] That puts me in one category of my head.
If you were supposed to pay for the DJ
and s-- clearly, somebody is supposed to pay for the DJ
'cause this wedding was pretty well-planned out, Ms. Perry.
The groom's family was paying for the venue.
The bride's father was paying for the caterer.
- Yes, ma'am. - You were supposed to pay
- for certain decorations... - Uh-hmm. Correct.
[Judge Judy] ...and wedding planning. In that package,
were you also supposed to pay for the DJ is the question?
We were sharing responsibilities for the finance.
- [Judge Judy] No, no, no. - So, it wasn't agreed upon.
They didn't come to me and say, here's the DJ.
I asked you who was supposed to pay for it?
It-it would have been deter-- I would have been happy
to pay for the DJ if that's who she would've collected.
[Judge Judy] Okay. Fine. Very good. Then I'm gonna deal with this case--
I'm gonna deal with this case on a very simple basis.
I'm gonna deal with it since you have no written contract
on a quantum meruit basis.
On what month were you hired, month and year?
November the 29th, 2020.
[Judge Judy] When, according to you,
were you told your services were no longer necessary?
The day of rehearsal, she told me my service was no longer available.
- [Jennifer] That's... - [Judge Judy] No, just a second.
- May 18th, 2021. - Can we agree on a date
either of being fired or quitting on May 18th, 2021?
- Yes, we can. - [Judge Judy] Great.
Between November 29th, 2020,
December, January, February,
March, April, and half of May, five and a half months,
tell me what you actually did in furtherance
of the arrangement that you had with the plaintiff.
I prepared pipe and draping which they ordered
two pipe and draping for the bride. I have pictures
- that I can show you. - [Judge Judy] I'd like to see it.
- Can I see? - [Jennifer] And, Your Honor,
she did not ask the bride what she want...
[Judge Judy] Great. Don't--just a second. Just a second.
Don't speak.
I am now ruling on this case based upon how much time
and what she actually did
during that five and a half-month period.
- [Jennifer] Understood, ma'am. - [Judge Judy] To absorb $1,100
and if it fixed a reasonable hourly to her expertise,
I'm gonna figure out whether or not
she is entitled to keep because I think
that the arrangement you had with her
was to pay substantially more than $1,100.
But since she doesn't have that in writing anywhere,
if she did any work, you don't get your money back.
- You understand that? - That's not what she stated to me.
[Judge Judy] Just a second. I don't care what she stated to you, that's
- why you're here in court today. - Understood. Agreed.
[Judge Judy] Very good. So you're here in court today
to determine the worth of her work
for five and a half months and whether or not she used up
that $1,100 in work that she did for you.
Okay. May I see it, please?
Okay. Was this done specifically for her wedding?
- Her daughter's wedding. Yes, ma'am. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
- Did you send her pictures of this? - She-she saw th-that picture
in your hand.
[Judge Judy] Did you discuss what they wanted either with her
or with her daughter about what color she wanted?
- Did you have those conversations? - Yes, ma'am. Yes, I did.
Are these the flower arrangements that you did for the wedding?
[Carla] Yes, ma'am.
[Judge Judy] Are these her daughter's color?
Yes, ma'am.
[Judge Judy] Did you send her these pictures?
Yes. She saw pictures. She even saw it in person.
Tell me when she saw them personally.
It was in uh November when we met up.
It was also in December 'cause I met up wit' 'em several times.
How many times did you meet with them in December?
- It was maybe two or three times. - [Judge Judy] Where?
- [Carla] Um at my home. - Who was present?
Uh Jennifer and her daughter.
Were these made up of fresh flowers?
[Carla] No, those were not. Those were silk flowers for the wedding.
[Judge Judy] Silk flowers that you own
that you arranged in order to show her and her daughter?
- That's-that's correct. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
Who told you what the colors were, blue and white?
[Carla] Jennifer and her-- uh and Alexa, her daughter.
[Judge Judy] Okay. So, what you do is you take
- the color scheme of the bride. - Of the--that's correct.
- [Judge Judy] And create this? - That's correct.
So these blues were bought just for this wedding?
- [Carla] That's right. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
How much money did they cost?
With that big bundle there,
that was about $400 because flowers are--
- silk flowers are very expensive. - Who paid for those?
- I did. - Did the plaintiff reimburse you
for those?
[Carla] No, ma'am. They belong to me.
[Judge Judy] But these were purchased in this box for her wedding?
- [Carla] That's correct. - Ma'am, that's not true.
I actually had provided Carla with the flowers
that I had purchased for Alexa's wedding.
That is not for Alexa's event exclusively.
[Carla] Th-the flowers that Jennifer bought for her daughter,
you know, those wooden-- the flowers they're wooden,
they were on a skinny stem and they really--they really...
- It's what the bride wanted. - [Judge Judy] Don't speak.
And they're very, very sk-- uh small, they're wood.
Those are the flowers that Jennifer provided and when I saw
those flowers, I said, "Jennifer, these are not going to work.
If we're gonna use these flowers, we're gonna have to add
some of the flowers that I have because if we want it to look full,
those little s-flowers are not going to look appropriate."
[Judge Judy] Did you return those to the plaintiff?
- The ones that she brought the... - Yes, she picked those up.
- Yes, ma'am. - Okay.
Careful with me, very careful.
Did you give to the defendant
a certain number of flowers that you purchased?
- Yes, ma'am. - Did she return them to you?
- Yes, ma'am. - [Judge Judy] You didn't purchase
- any of these flowers. - [Jennifer] That's correct.
- That is not what... - [Judge Judy] Don't speak.
- The answer is no. - No.
[Judge Judy] Next question,
who did the flowers for your daughter's wedding?
- I did. - [Judge Judy] Personally?
- Personally. - So, you did the arrangements
- for your daughter's wedding? - Yes, ma'am.
[Judge Judy] I'd like to see a picture of it.
- Okay. - Of the flower arrangements.
- [Jennifer] Okay. - [Sarah] If it makes a difference
for your judgment for how much she gets paid by the hour,
I know her complaint says that she's been working for 12 years.
The LLC was incorporated in 2018.
- [Judge Judy] Uh-hmm. - So, she must have had
some sort of business prior to this design company.
[Judge Judy] Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. Right.
[Sarah] I found the one of-- a photo of Alexa's bouquet.
[Judge Judy] I'd like to take a look at both.
[Sarah] Sure.
[Judge Judy] I'm not talking about your daughter's flowers.
I'm talking about the flowers for the table.
Oh, I'm sorry. We were discussing bouquets.
[Judge Judy] No. We weren't discussing bouquets.
- Did I ever use the word bouquet? - No.
[Judge Judy] I never used the word bouquet.
Here you go. Oh, sorry.
[Judge Judy] Okay.
So on the head table, you had a nice s-something of flowers,
reasonable, and then you went for the tables,
y-you went on the cheap side.
- No, that is what my...ma'am... - [Judge Judy] Sure. Oh, sure, you
- did.
- ...that is what my daughter wanted. - [Judge Judy] Sure you did.
You went on the cheap side. Okay. I got it now.
[Jennifer] Those were the items that my daughter had picked out. That
- was the display that she wanted. - [Judge Judy] Yeah. Fine. Very fine.
The expectation of the wedding coordinator...
Very, very good. Listen, I wanna explain something to you.
I got this whole thing.
I got the whole thing.
She spent a time putting together items, meeting with you.
She met with you and your daughter.
I would guesstimate, guesstimate at least four times,
- probably more. - It was more than that.
- No. It was three. Three maximum. - [Judge Judy] Probably...
- No, that's not true. - [Jennifer] That is true.
- Did she come to the venue? - Yes.
She came to the venue on February 23rd.
[Judge Judy] Just a second. Just a second. Is that the fourth time?
- [Jennifer] No. - [Judge Judy] You're telling me
that you met with her twice? Just a second. You see,
let me tell you why I don't believe you 'cause other than the fact
that you're getting red.
Let me tell you why, because she met with you once on the 29th.
- [Jennifer] No, no. - And then what you are telling me
is she met with you once
between November and the time she went to the venue
when she had this kerfuffle with a DJ who was the aunt of the bridegroom.
So, if that's what you're telling me, I'm telling you, I don't believe it.
Did she ever tell you that she had a small budget because Alexis,
that's her daughter's father was not contributing to the wedding?
- Yes. - Why did you tell her that?
- That's not true. - It was true at the time.
I'm gonna have to introduce you to the truth.
[theme music playing]
[announcer] Jennifer Perry has accused wedding coordinator Carla
Williams, of canceling her services three weeks before the wedding.
Carla claims Jennifer breached their contract and defamed her.
Okay. So now you wanna sit back
and think about how many times you met with Ms. Williams
on this event after you first met with her
on November 29th, 2020.
There was no meeting on November 29th, 2020.
- I sent her a text message... - [Judge Judy] I said, how many times
did you meet with her
after November 29th, 2020?
Think about it.
- Two. - How many times did you meet
with the plaintiff after November 29th, 2020?
It was about eight to ten times we met eh-because we met...
we met the ven-- at the venue three times.
- No. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
You met at the venue three times.
Do you remember when you went to the venue?
Um I don't remember the exact date, but I know we went out
and it was in February because that was the first time
I had to go look at the venue so that I can get an idea of what,
what exactly that they wanted.
Okay. So that's one.
We also met in March.
Where did you meet in March?
We-we met at the venue again.
- [Judge Judy] Who was present? - Uh Jennifer and her daughter,
- Alexa. We also met in April. - Where?
Um, well, we was in a car together 'cause we went over to Illinois.
Um it was a company that was selling a lot of the uh supplies that
uh the coordinators or banquet owners have.
So, I mentioned it to Jennifer that we can go over there
and look at a couple items for the wedding.
So we were all three in the car together in Jennifer's c-car.
Okay. And how long did you spend there?
Uh we was there for about an hour.
You have any recollection of that, madam?
- I do. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
When else did you meet?
And then we also met um at the rehearsal.
Okay. And she never came to your house,
so she looked at these pictures via...
- [Carla] No. - She looked at these...
[Carla] J-Jennifer had been to my house several times. So...
- As friends. - [Judge Judy] Just...don't speak.
'Cause I don't...what I'm telling you is I don't believe your story
that you met twice, do you understand?
I do.
[Judge Judy] I didn't believe it when you said it
and now, I'm positive that you met more than twice.
- Okay. - [Judge Judy] After the road trip,
was the only other time that you met at the rehearsal dinner,
- that you met? - No, we met several times
'cause Jenni-- brough-- Jennifer brought some items to my home
um that she uh wanted at her daughter's reception which was items
that she wanted to be put on the grass because the wedding ceremony
- was outside. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
So, how many times did she bring items to your home?
She came four times.
Does any of that sound familiar to you?
- Yes. - Very good. Your claim is dismissed
- for your $1,100. - [Jennifer] Ma'am, can I...
- No, your claim... - [Jennifer] No.
[Jennifer] I would like to speak.
Your claim is... your claim is absolutely...
Well, I wasn't allowed to interrupt. I'd like to present my side of the
case. She's saying hearsay. I have facts.
On November 28th is the date that we went over to the venue.
I actually told her about the sale.
- Provided it to her. - [Judge Judy] So, just a second.
I don't care. You have no case.
I don't believe that you met with her twice.
You may not consider it a meeting...
- [Carla] Uh-hmm. - ...but when you bring things over
to her house and discuss with the event planner
- where you want these... - That was a friend, not a meeting.
[Judge Judy] And don't, don't try to talk over me, madam.
You had a limited responsibility.
You had someone who trusted you with whom you were friendly with,
- who had no contract with you. - [Carla] Uh-hmm.
And you paid her a de minimis amount of money.
So I didn't believe that based upon all of this that you only met with
her as according to you, two times. Is that what she said?
- Yes. - Two times.
But then when we go back to what you did, in fact, take her
time. She went...don't speak.
She went with you.
I don't care if you went with your daughter. It's your wedding.
- [Jennifer] She needed a ride. - She...don't speak.
I don't care who drove.
She went with you in her capacity as a wedding planner
to look at items for the venue.
You may not consider that work,
but that's work. That's what she does for a living.
But she has (indistinct) in Victoria.
[Judge Judy] Do not speak, just listen.
So, since I don't have a written contract.
[Carla] Uh-hmm.
[Judge Judy] And since I don't believe
- that you met only twice. - Correct.
[Judge Judy] I am paying her by way of quantum meruit
because I believe that she met with you closer to 10 times.
- Uh-hmm. Correct. - [Judge Judy] Not two.
- Not two. She...I... - I have evidence of the times
- that we met. - [Judge Judy] Just a second. I'm
speaking. You don't remember a lot until your recollection is refreshed.
- Wow. - [Judge Judy] Now, we're gonna get
- to the counterclaim. - She's trash.
She's got a counterclaim. Don't move yourself.
Just listen. Her counterclaim is money owed
for breaching the agreement. Forget it.
- Next time, put it in writing. - Okay.
[Judge Judy] Lost wages and defamation.
So, what I'm gonna hear is the defamation part of your case.
- Correct. - If you want a contract,
you're a businessperson, put it in writing.
- Do you understand? - Yes, ma'am.
Great. Now, let's hear about the defamation.
Okay. After Jennifer fired me, she went on to...
[Judge Judy] After you no longer work together.
- We worked...yes. - I didn't get to...I don't need to
know whether you quit or whether she fired you as a result of this 'cause
That actually matters.
Whether you fire her or she quit, it doesn't make a difference.
- She was the one... - [Judge Judy] Don't speak.
I'm done with your case.
Now, I'm gonna find out whether or not you defamed her.
Now, I would just like to see w-what it is that you claim
she said about you publicly to defame you.
- [Carla] Yes. - [Judge Judy] Let me see it.
She posted, "Never do business here.
I've been friends with her, helped her with an event,
helped her prepare a baby shower. That's just unfortunate.
But I am bearing the financial loss with three weeks until the wedding."
- She posted that? - Yes.
[Judge Judy] It's not defamatory. Anything else?
She's also on Instagram telling people don't use my business.
- She's false. She don't... - [Judge Judy] She's allowed...
just a second. She's allowed to do that.
- That's her opinion. - [Carla] Uh-hmm.
Did she ever tell you in the initial conversation that she had,
which is something that you put in your complaint?
This is just a point of interest for me. Did she
ever tell you that she had a... when she called you in November
of 2020 that she had a small budget because Alexis,
that's her daughter's father, was not contributing to the wedding?
Yes.
[Judge Judy] Did you ever tell her that?
- I did. - Why did you tell her that?
- That's not true. - It was true at the time.
- You don't have... - [Jennifer] I have one more daughter
You don't have a case... you don't have a case for defamation.
I'm gonna have to introduce you to the truth.
- It will be a nice first meeting. - I have the truth, ma'am.
Thank you very much. We're done here.
[Kevin] Court is adjourned.
Unfortunately, she lied, but she was more believable.
I was trying to be a good friend and give her a family discount.
She told me that she would just give me back my money.
I've been truthful with her.
I been, you know, there to help for whatever way she needed,
but this would happen, so.
It's very upsetting to lose a friendship of over 20 years,
but, it happens.
It's a terrible situation because it could have went a better way
but, you know, she chose it this way so this is what happens.
[Sarah] That defendant seemed pretty professional,
despite the fact that she didn't have a written contract
in this instance for her business.
But otherwise, she seemed to have all her ducks in a row.
She had all her evidence laid out.
She knew what she had done for the plaintiffs and their wedding.
You go back to it's so much easier if you have a written contract.
If you outline what your basic agreement is,
- especially the cost. - [Sarah] Uh-hmm.
And what is going to be part of that,
you're protected. It really helps everybody.
So, if you take away anything from this is, if you're in a business,
whether it be friend, relative, neighbor,
if you have something that has a cost involved to it,
put it in writing. Anyway, this a good case.
- [Sarah] Yeah. - And you should keep that card
in case you need her. She sounds like a very reasonable wedding planner.
I might.
[announcer] Want justice?
Go to JudyJustice.tv.
[theme music playing]