I tried to purchase a handgun.
The Department of Justice had said do not release the firearm.
If you're convicted with a felony,
it's for life that you cannot have firearm.
Oh.
Did you ever go to prison?
No. I wouldn't say prison.
[announcer] This is Judy Justice.
[theme music playing]
[announcer] Yoonta Chao is suing gun shop owner, David Liu,
for the refund of a firearm.
[Kevin] Court come to order. All rise.
Have a seat, please.
- [Kevin] Good morning, Judge. - [Judge Judy] Good morning, Kevin.
Case number 1149, Chao versus Liu.
- Thank you. - You're welcome.
[Judge Judy] Mr. Chao, what jurisdiction do you come from?
I--I don't understand.
- What state do you come from? - Oh, California.
[Judge Judy] How long have you lived here?
I lived here all my life.
Thirty-five years.
What kind of work do you do?
I'm currently unemployed, but before that, I was in human resources.
- How for long? - For two years.
Your complaint is a simple one.
You felt, according to you,
the need to have a firearm for protection.
That's correct.
[Judge Judy] Was this the first time you had felt the need for a firearm?
Yes. Yes, Your Honor.
Um especially during earlier this year and last year due to Asian hate crimes,
I felt like, like not safe to the point--
like I didn't know if they were gonna rob me at my car
or if they were gonna um burglarize my house.
- So I felt the need... - What kind of premises do you live in?
I live in a apartment complex.
[Judge Judy] Had you in the past been threatened?
Uh no. Only...
- No? - [Yoonta] No.
[Judge Judy] The defendant owns a gun shop?
Yes, Your Honor.
- In California? - Correct.
[Judge Judy] How long have you owned that shop, Mr. Liu?
Six years.
Is it close by to where you live?
Correct.
[Judge Judy] You went to Mr. Liu's shop to purchase a gun.
What kind of a gun did you want?
I tried to purchase a uh handgun which is a 9mm.
You wanted a 9mm gun.
- Had you had any training with a gun? - No.
And you had never applied for a gun permit before?
Correct.
[Judge Judy] But according to what I read in your complaint,
13 years ago, while you were in your 20s...
- [Yoonta] Correct. - [Judge Judy] ...early 20s,
you had had either an arrest or a conviction for something.
- Was it gun-related? - No. No, Your Honor.
Did you ever go to prison?
No. I wouldn't say prison.
I went to uh, uh, uh another form of imprisonment.
I forgot. It was like county. I--I--I'm not too sure.
It was to a point where uh uh all-- like everyone that committed a crime
was like together in a-- in a grouping, a household.
Like a halfway house?
Somewhat like that.
[Judge Judy] Could you leave the house?
No. Uh you only could leave to do your work premises that's--
- that was uh supervised by the uh... - Off premises or...
- [Yoonta] Yes. Off premises. - [Judge Judy] Off premises?
- Correct. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
Was that part of your sentence?
Was that your sentence?
No. That was just a part of just earning good time so I could be released early.
So you were never in prison?
Uh not in prison in, in that sense to the point
where I was locked down like 24/7 or anything of that nature, no.
[Judge Judy] Okay. And how long did you have to remain in that kind of facility?
Uh I only stayed there near--close to three months and then I was released.
- Was it a drug-related crime? - No.
[Judge Judy] Since that time 13 years ago, have you ever been arrested again?
No.
[Judge Judy] Was that the first time you had been arrested?
Correct.
[Judge Judy] So that was the first and only time you...
The first and only time as a--a young adult, yes.
Prior to that, during my younger years,
of course, I was hanging around the wrong crowd
because I--I lived originally from Oakland, California.
It's a really rough neighborhood during that time.
I--I associated myself with the wrong crowd which--from there...
[Judge Judy] So you were arrested as a juvenile?
Yes. Correct.
And this was the first arrest and conviction as an adult?
Correct.
[Judge Judy] What date did you go in to seek to purchase a weapon?
It was on May 21st, 2021.
[Judge Judy] And as part of that process, you have to fill out paperwork.
- [David] Yes? - [Judge Judy] Would you explain
the paperwork process to me, Mr. Liu?
[David] Okay. For California resident, if you need to buy a firearm,
first of all, you have to take a firearm safety certificate test which is...
[Judge Judy] Okay. Did he have that test?
Yes.
[Judge Judy] So, you had a certificate to show him?
Correct.
[Judge Judy] So you had taken some training?
[Yoonta] No. I--I took it that same very day
because initially that's what he--
was part of the process of-- of purchasing a--a firearm.
So where did you go to take the test?
[Yoonta] At the same location. At his shop.
[Judge Judy] So you showed him how to use it
- and gave him the certificate? - [David] No.
Uh I don't have to show him how to use the gun
but it's his responsibility to know how to use the firearm.
Well, what is the certificate? Is what I'm asking you.
[David] Uh the certificate contained like thirty questions, uh
including like basic firearm laws and...
No. Do you have a copy of it?
- No, Your Honor. - [Yoonta] I do.
[Judge Judy] Do you have a copy of it? I'd like to see it.
Learning something.
[Sarah] Something new every day.
[Judge Judy] Well, this is a dealer record of the sale of firearm.
What is the certificate we're talking about that he has to fill out?
The test come up with 30 question,
10 true and false, 20 multiple choice.
[Judge Judy] Well, I'd like to see the copy of the test.
[David] I don't have the test, Your Honor,
because he didn't ask me to refund him the test.
[Judge Judy] Just a second.
Sarah, can you look up test for firearm,
a certificate.
And that's required by the State of California.
Firearm Safety Certificate.
I'm just curious what it looks like.
So, he filled out the form.
He got the certificate from you.
He filled out the form in front of you.
And then you have to fill out another form?
Uh after he took the test.
He passed the test.
[Judge Judy] What kind of test did he have to pass?
The Firearm Safety, Safety Certificate.
[Judge Judy] Did you study before you went?
[David] No. I just had knowledge of just firearm in general.
Just--it was just a lot of common sense questions
that you have in regards to uh California law.
I have the test, Your Honor.
Could I take a look at it, Sarah?
So this is a 50-page study guide for the test.
And this is a self-test example of what the test is.
Thank you.
You know, I'm gonna lose this whole thing.
[Sarah] No. You--you've got it. Just--it's touch screen.
[Judge Judy] A safe practice when handling--turn to page four.
Know your target.
As a safety measure, you should always be pointed to the north, to the safest spot.
Up and down.
One of the safety rules to know is how to probably clear a malfunction.
Turn to page five.
[Sarah] So there's a bunch of list of different topics
that you should study for before the test,
and then on this document, there's a few practice questions.
The test would just be those few questions in the beginning.
It would be, like he said, 20 multiple choice and 10 true false.
- Thank you. - [Sarah] Uh-hmm.
[Judge Judy] Do you have any evidence that he lied on this application?
That's either a yes or a no.
- That's not a well. - [David] Yes.
In California, if you're convicted with a felony,
it's for life that you cannot have firearm.
Oh.
[theme music playing]
[announcer] Yoonta Chao claims gun shop owner, David Liu,
owes him a refund after purchasing a gun he never received.
[Judge Judy] Okay. Just curious, Mr. Chao,
did you fill out the answers to these questions?
[Yoonta] Yes, I did.
- [Judge Judy] Did the defendant help you? - [Yoonta] No.
How long did it take you to fill out the form?
Uh it took about like maybe 20 minutes or so.
And after you filled out that form, then there's this...
- [Yoonta] Correct. - ...document?
Because he has to be approved by the Department of Justice, is that right?
Yes, Your Honor.
[Judge Judy] Okay. Well, this is a purchaser's record of sale of firearm.
And it says has the purchaser ever been convicted with a felony
or an offense as defined in the penal code in the last 10 years?
Based upon Mr. Chao, his conviction was 13 years ago.
- Is that right? - Correct.
[Judge Judy] So, he answered the question no.
And you purchased the gun?
Correct.
[Judge Judy] But you did not give him the gun
until after you got a--an approval from the Department of Justice?
- Correct. - [Judge Judy] And so that was May 21st?
- Correct. - [Judge Judy] How long did--Mr. Liu,
based upon your business of experience of six years,
does it usually take to hear back from the Department of Justice?
Usually, it will take about two to four days,
depends on how busy they are to get back to me.
- [Judge Judy] Okay. And this... - [David] Only when they get denied,
reject, or some other reason.
Otherwise, uh after ten days,
the owner can come and pick up the firearm.
So you have uh at least 10 days for the Department of Justice
- to do the background check. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
Yeah. And during the pandemic, sometimes delayed it to 14 days.
- Of course. - [David] But, if the purchaser is denied,
reject, or something, usually that will come electronically.
- [Judge Judy] Okay. - Much faster.
[Judge Judy] In Mr. Chao's case,
did you receive notification from the Department of Justice?
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
He came and he paid you for the gun.
How much did you pay him for the gun?
I paid uh with tax and other fees, in total, it'll be $1,370.
I have the invoice here as well too.
[Judge Judy] Okay. He doesn't dispute the amount.
And when you heard back from the Department of Justice,
on what day did you hear from the Department of Justice?
[David] I got the notice on May 28th.
Do you have a copy of that notice?
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] I'd like to see it, please.
[David] And this is the electronic version.
And also the denied.
Thank you.
Okay. So you were advised on the 28th, a week later,
that the Department of Justice had said
do not release the firearm to the purchaser.
[David] Correct.
[Judge Judy] When did you notify the plaintiff?
Uh on the same day. I sent him a text message.
- [Judge Judy] Is that correct? - That is correct.
- Did you ask why? - Uh no. I just--essentially,
I went directly to a refund from that point on.
- I didn't ask why as of yet. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
So from the May 28th on,
you knew that you could not release the firearm
that you were holding for the plaintiff
- for which you were paid $1,370. - Correct.
If we were to examine your records, sir, how many weapons did you sell that week?
- Really depends. Some... - [Judge Judy] No.
- If we were to examine your records... - [David] Uh-huh.
...from the 25th, 26th, 27th, those three days...
Uh-hmm.
...how many guns would you say you sold?
How many a day do you sell?
Well, during the pandemic, it's crazy.
I can sell maybe 20 guns a day.
- And you hold them? - Correct.
[Judge Judy] Until you get notification?
Correct.
[Judge Judy] Now this is the case.
You were denied for that.
You will have--will have to take up with the Department of Justice, if you wish.
Your case is simple. You have the gun.
You know you can't sell it to him and you have his $1,370.
Now, I would like you to explain to me, sir...
- [David] Uh-hmm. - ...why you think he's not entitled
to his $1,370 back?
- And explain to this face... - [David] Uh-hmm.
- [Judge Judy] ...very slowly... - [David] Yes.
...why somebody who's been in business thinks
that for holding on to this gun for five days
when he did not lie in his application,
because according to this, his conviction was 13 years ago.
So, unless you have information to the contrary,
which I will see, because certainly if he lied on the application,
I might feel a little bit sympathetic
if you said I could have sold the gun 10 times over
but I held it because he lied on the application.
So, first, do you have any evidence that he lied on this application?
That's either a yes or a no.
- That's not a well. - [David] Yes.
Yes? What is that evidence?
Because on the FSC, the Firearm Safety Certificate test,
there's one question,
in California, if you're convicted with a felony,
it's for life that you cannot have firearm.
Oh.
See if you can find that but that's not in the application
that you sent to the Department of Justice.
[David] Yes. And also, there's a form he has to fill out for the, uh...
- Just a second, but... - [David] Yes.
...he wasn't denied from the State of California.
He also filled out the form 4473 for the federal government.
Can I see it?
[David] And this is same question he say no.
[Judge Judy] May I see it?
This is from the US Department of Justice.
Did you fill this out, sir?
I think I did. I--I'm not too sure
because I didn't-- I did not receive a copy.
The only copy I received was that...
[Judge Judy] Well, it looks like you filled it out.
This is a sort of ambiguous question.
It says, "Have you ever been convicted in any court
including a military court of a felony or any other crime
for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year?
Even if you received a shorter sentence, including probation." (chuckles)
So, it is unlawful for any person who's been convicted of
or has an outstanding warrant for any felony,
as well as there's a list of specific misdemeanors
that also prohibit the ownership of a firearm.
[Judge Judy] Okay. So, what your statement is
this application was accurate
and what you indicate is that this application,
which goes to the US Department of Justice,
he said he had not been, when in fact he had been?
[David] Yes.
Okay. So, Kevin, would you show this to the plaintiff, please?
It looks as if, sir, you filled that out.
- Okay. - [Judge Judy] And it's signed by you.
- I verified the signature. - [Yoonta] No.
- I did mark a no on that. - Okay. Got it.
Now, sir, so now he marked a no when he should've written a yes,
for something that happened 13 years ago,
for which he was not really in a prison, according to him,
sort of a halfway residence where he was able to leave for--
go to work, outside work, and then come back,
and he spent three months there.
According to him, you have no information to the contrary,
and for the last 13 years,
he has not had any subsequent convictions.
Now, you have to explain to me why you think he is not entitled to most,
if not all, of his money back?
Okay. Because, in my shop, there are numerous, uh, people with felony
or something and they will try and come to buy firearm.
That's why in all our contract,
not only in the small print, also in the red print, we explain to them,
if they get denied in any way, there's no refund.
May I see it, please?
[David] And also, at the store,
we have signs everywhere to tell people that...
[Judge Judy] No, I wanna see the-- I'm not interested in the signs.
I'm interested in something that he signed.
- [David] This is just one way to... - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
- [David] Okay. - This just says there will be no refund.
It doesn't say if you're denied because of something.
No refund in any way.
It says no refund in any way.
It says--it says firearm has to pay in full,
and then there's a crossing out,
upon any cancellation, deny, or revoke,
there will be a 30% restocking fee.
But that's crossed out.
Yes, because, uh, during the pandemic, there's--all the guns are special ordered.
They were so limited, we can't get any gun in.
That's why we...
[Judge Judy] Firearm has to be paid in full.
[David] That's why we have the red print.
And it's crossed out the--
crossed out, upon any cancellation, deny, or revoke,
there will be a 30% restocking fee.
That's crossed out.
That's crossed out before he signed it.
[Judge Judy] But all firearms are special order.
Well, that's not particularly so in this case.
It was not a special order. You had it in the shop.
Uh, it was a special order, Your Honor.
[Judge Judy] No, no.
Mr. Liu, did you resell the gun?
I want you to think very carefully.
It's got a serial number on it.
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
It's got a serial number on it so it's easy to check.
[theme music playing]
[announcer] Yoonta Chao has accused gun shop owner David Liu
of refusing to refund him for a gun he never received.
Okay. Did you come back more than once, sir?
- No. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
So, that--the gun that he showed you, he had in the store?
[Yoonta] Correct. He had...
[Judge Judy] And that is the gun that you purchased?
That is correct.
And that is the gun that you paid for.
Did you ask him to modify the gun in any way?
- No, I did not. - Did you modify the gun in any...
- No, we cannot do that. - [Judge Judy] Hmm?
- We cannot do that. - [Judge Judy] Okay.
So, the gun that you showed Mr. Chao was the gun that he selected.
It was not modified in any way.
You were holding it.
Pending receipt of this, this came back.
He could not purchase the gun.
It most, if you hadn't crossed out this section,
you would've been entitled to a 30% restocking fee for the gun
but you crossed it out.
It's crossed out of your contract.
So, Mr. Liu, he's entitled to his money back.
- Your Honor... - [Judge Judy] Did you sell--
did you resell the gun?
I want you to think very carefully.
It's got a serial number on it.
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] Just a second.
It's got a serial number on it and so it's easy to check.
- [David] Yes, I'm being very... - Did you...
- [David] ...honest to you, yes. - Of course. Did you resell the gun?
- Yes. - [Judge Judy] Yes.
And how much did you resell the gun for?
[David] I have to check because the prices is-- was vary
- because during the pandemic... - [Judge Judy] Okay. Just a second.
- So, it was up and down? - Yes.
[Judge Judy] Some people paid a little more
and some people paid a little less?
So you actually got paid twice for this gun?
[David] Yes.
[Judge Judy] How much did you pay for the gun?
Well, add on everything...
[Judge Judy] No, no, don't, don't add on anything.
Just tell me, how much did you pay for the gun, your cost?
Your Honor, because the gun--
during the pandemic, it's so, so different...
[Judge Judy] No, no, I just asked you, sir.
[David] [indistinct] made me to buy-- to buy other things to go with gun, so...
- No, no, listen to me. - [David] Yes.
Mr. Liu, I'm a very simply girl,
born and raised in Brooklyn and I'm really not good in math.
It's a gene--this math gene is a gene
unfortunately that I passed on to my children
and they passed on to their children,
so I want to ask you a question that's very simple.
You sold him this gun for $1,370.
You sold it again for around the same price.
Let's say you sold it for $1,200.
So, now, we have $2,500 that you have for this gun.
I wanna know how much you paid for it.
You don't have to give me the exact amount.
- Sarah, can look it up... - I pay close to $600.
- [Judge Judy] Hmm? - I pay close to $600.
- Close to 6? - [David] Yes.
[Judge Judy] Okay.
Well, that's a pretty substantial amount of profit that you made on that one gun,
even if you sold it to somebody else for $1,200,
you would've had a pretty substantial profit on that gun.
So, you're gonna give Mr. Chao his money back
because he deserves it back and you resold the gun,
and you had no damages from the fact that--none whatsoever.
It's not as if you got stuck with the gun.
And the contract can actually be interpreted in his favor,
and I think--a reasonable person and that would be me
'cause I'm a very reasonable person.
Am I a reasonable person, Whitney?
Very reasonable.
See? Whitney thinks I'm a reasonable person.
Judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $1,370.
We're finished. Thank you.
[Kevin] Court is adjourned.
If there's a convicted felon, he should never even step into a gun shop.
I was at the wrong place at the wrong time.
My friend called me up to go pick him up,
and, and because of that I--I--I was convicted.
And he went to a gun shop tried to buy a gun.
I didn't do research until after I was denied a refund.
That's when I actually went through the extensive search
of--of--of, like, the history of owning, uh, a firearm.
I'm surprised he will come to gun shop and try to buy a gun.
I am ecstatic actually for the judgment.
[Sarah] So, I actually disagree with you on that last one.
I think, that people really have to read the contracts that they're signing
and they are bound by those written contracts.
And I understand that you interpreted it in a certain way
and that's how you made your decision to give him his refund,
but I think that if courts continue to do that
and continue to bail people out
after they don't read things that they're signing,
that have legal significance,
I think the courts are gonna be bogged down with people looking for refunds
when they signed something that they're bound by,
saying they don't get one.
[Judge Judy] Okay. It's a perspective.
I felt comfortable with giving his money back
because there was a condition precedent.
[Sarah] Uh-hmm.
Upon which he could take possession of the gun
and the condition precedent was approval by the Department of Justice.
He couldn't actually take possession of the property.
Now, I can understand that if you got possession of the gun,
you took it home, you said, "You know what, this is too hard.
I tried to shoot it, I couldn't shoot it."
"I wanna take it back." Well, I can understand that's a no refund.
You know, it's like wearing a dress and putting the tag inside,
which I've never done, I then bring it back the next day,
but I know people who will do that.
- So that's why it says, "No refund." - Uh-hmm.
[Judge Judy] But in this case, the condition precedent
which was getting approval could not be realized
and I don't think it was through any...
Fault of the plaintiff.
[Judge Judy] ...fault of the plaintiff because
that section that discussed a felony
where you could've been imprisoned for more than one year,
well, you don't remember if you've been convicted of one felony
as an adult in your whole life
whether a judge could've sentenced you for more than a year
but sentenced you to only three months in a different kind of facility.
- Uh-hmm. - [Judge Judy] In a halfway house.
So, I don't think that he was trying to obfuscate the truth.
- Uh-hmm. - [Judge Judy] I think
that he tried to answer the questions honestly,
- and that he has not been in trouble... - [Sarah] Yeah.
[Judge Judy] ...for well over a decade and the defendant had no loss.
Yeah, I understand that, but I also was sympathetic with the defendant
speaking about in his gun shop,
having people who have felonies coming in constantly, trying to get guns.
How are you supposed to protect yourself as an owner of a shop
that's trying to make money when that becomes a problem.
[Judge Judy] Absolutely right.
That if you come in and you fill out the form,
and you're holding the form, and you say,
"Well, maybe somebody who's gonna take a hiccup
over the Department of Justice when they look at my papers."
Maybe, they'll put it through,
and then you've taken that gun out of circulation
but that really wasn't the case in this case.
And the defendant suffered no damage.
[Sarah] True.
He resold the gun and it was really unjust for him
to make five time-- five hundred percent on his money.
He made more than double on his money...
- Yeah. - [Judge Judy] ...on the second sale.
Yeah.
[Judge Judy] So I think that it ended fairly.
- [Sarah] No, I do. - But I agree with you,
that too many people sign contracts
and don't read the fine print, and then when something happens,
and somebody points out the fine print to them,
they're surprised. So, it's a good lesson.
- [Sarah] Yeah. - You're right.
Read the contract before you sign it.
- Take the extra five minutes. - [Sarah] Uh-hmm.
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