I work as a full-time nanny.
You weren't watching the baby when you took a shower.
He handed me two towels and he gave me permission to shower.
-Uh, no. -You can't hear the baby cry
if you're in the shower.
That's not taking care of an infant.
-Well, I didn't want-- -You don't have to answer me.
That's a fact!
[narrator] This is Judy Justice.
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Leire Pinto is suing her former employers,
Lawrence and Jennarose Papincak, for lost wages
and the value of her belongings.
[Kevin] Court come to order. All rise.
[Judy] Have a seat, please.
Judge, case 4140, Pinto v. Papincak.
-Thank you. -[Kevin] You're welcome.
-[Judy] Ms. Pinto, how old are you? -Twenty-four.
Did you go to college?
-Yes, I'm currently in college. -Where?
Arizona State University.
When did you start there?
I started in 4/10/23.
[Judy] And what were you doing before that?
I was a college student at Santa Barbara City College,
and then I transfer.
How long were you at Santa Barbara?
I was in Santa Barbara City College since 2020.
[Judy] From 2020 to when?
To 2023, I transfer.
Well, you took then...
Oh, I study-- I've been studying online.
So, I've been the whole time an online student.
Is there any reason you went to school online?
Because I work as a full-time nanny.
For whom?
For different families in Santa Barbara who need it.
And where were you living in Santa Barbara?
First I live in Isla Vista from 2019 to 2023.
By yourself or with others?
I live with roommates, other students.
And in 2023, I move in with my fiancé in downtown.
Is that when you answered an ad that the defendants had put online?
-Yeah, uh, I met Lawrence in 2024. -[Judy] Okay.
[Judy] And the defendants had a new baby,
and they decided, according to what I read,
that they needed a full night's sleep,
so they wanted to hire someone for nighttime.
Just for nighttime when hopefully the baby would be sleeping,
to ensure that they could sleep during the night.
You interviewed with them on what date?
I talked to them in September 2024.
And did you make an arrangement with them as far as what your duties would be,
what time you would be working,
-and how much you'd be making per hour? -[Leire] Mm-hmm.
-Correct, uh, Lawrence-- -[Judy] Okay, so
what were the hours that you were supposed to be working?
I was working 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. at 25 per hour, three times a week.
And how many days did you actually work for them?
I only worked one night in September...
-One night in September. -[Leire] Uh-huh.
And one night in October.
Do you remember the date in September you worked for them?
It must be the 26th. I remember October was October 8th.
And did they pay you?
-Yes. -How much did they pay you?
They pay me $200 each night.
And was that consistent with the hours that you worked?
Yeah, I worked eight hours at 25, which is 200.
Now, the one night in October, what night was that?
-October 8th. -And you worked from when to when?
Uh, 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.
-Did you get paid? -Yes.
-How much? -Two hundred.
And then you were told that your services were no longer necessary.
Correct. He text me a day and a half later, on October 10th,
he text me, firing me.
Okay, and I would be correct that you and the defendant
didn't have any written contract.
-Correct. -So you worked two days,
and you got two days' pay.
-Mm-hmm. -Now,
you're suing the defendants
because, "Money owed for loss of income."
I assume the loss of income that you're referring to
is as a result of them giving you a bad review to your agency.
-Mm-hmm. -The agency investigating that bad review.
-Correct. -When you put your name
into the agency, and you could look at your profile online,
did you have good reviews from your prior people that you worked for?
It was a new profile, um, so that I didn't...
So the answer is no, you didn't have good reviews from...
I didn't have any reviews at all.
But people do have reviews on the site?
-Correct. -[Judy] You didn't have any.
And he-- But you knew that people post reviews
because you've used the site before.
Right. His review was the first one ever that I receive.
-Whatever, he posted a bad review, they-- -[Leire] Yeah.
-He said they had a bad experience. -Correct.
He's entitled to do that.
I know. Um, what happened was that I got banned for one week.
And the reason why it was one week is because the agency investigated.
So then they give me my account back
when they saw that nothing happened in reality.
And during that week that I was banned from the nanny app,
what happened was that this agency sent an e-mail to all the parents
that I have worked before
saying, "Oh, we have closed Leire's account for security measures."
Just a second. What you're telling me
is because they were investigating this incident,
the agency sent letters out.
-Yeah. -That's not his problem.
The agency sent letters out for the people that you worked with before
trying to gather their impression of your work history.
-They were doing an investigation, right? -[Leire] Right.
That has nothing to do with him.
Right, and they realize, like, "Oh, yeah, we--
They're apologizing and everything, uh,
but yeah, parents, um, yeah, had-- the parents I worked for in the past
talked to them, say, "No, we have..."
[stutters] You don't get it, Ms. Pinto.
[dramatic music playing]
That's an impossible schedule for...
Well, I do it.
No, you don't do it well.
It's impossible to do it well.
You can't work 24 hours straight
and the last eight hours of that is watching an infant.
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Leire Pinto claims her former employers,
Lawrence and Jennarose Papincak, owe her for lost wages.
Lawrence and Jennarose are countersuing for a refund and loss of income.
He's entitled to write a bad review.
Whatever happens after he writes a bad review,
unless he does it out of some way maliciously...
-Mm-hmm. -This was, what I gather
-from the two of you... -[Leire] Mm-hmm.
...this was an incident that happened at the second time you came there,
-you took a shower. -Mm-hmm.
He says you didn't have the permission to take a shower,
that you weren't watching the baby when you took a shower
-and it was your job. Just a second. -Yeah, that's true.
That's what he says, which was your job.
And when you finished taking a shower, you left the bathroom a mess,
and his wife tripped on your wet towels, and she smashed her foot. Whatever.
And you say that he did give you permission to take a shower.
-That's what the discrepancy was about. -[Leire] Yeah.
It's not particularly urgent. Certainly not urgent for me.
What's important to me is that you worked for two days,
-and you got paid for two days. -Correct.
And then I had my belongings in his home.
Now, I want you to tell me what belongings--
Cause you also have that.
-What belongings did you have in his home? -[Leire] Yeah.
It was bathroom items.
What bathroom items?
It was a shampoo, a conditioner, a body wash,
a loofah, a toothpaste, and a toothbrush.
So it was bathroom items that I brought in my second on October 8th,
and I ask him, "Oh, I have been working all day,
could I please take a shower?"
And he said "yes," and he handed me two towels,
and he gave me permission to shower in the bathroom guest with--
It was in the same room as his baby was.
So I was in the guest room. The bathroom is inside the guest room.
The baby was in the bassinet,
so if he will cry, I will hear it immediately.
You can't hear a baby cry if you're in the shower.
Yeah, 'cause the bathroom door is open.
I don't care if it's open. You can't hear the baby cry if you're in the shower.
-Yeah, but he gave me permission. -In any event, if you were working all--
Just my own curiosity, this really is not a legal question.
You were working all day doing what?
Yeah, I was working since 8 a.m.--
-What, doing what? -Nanny.
-I was nannying. -Just a second.
-So you were somebody else's nanny. -Mm-hmm.
-From eight in the morning until? -Mm-hmm.
Nine-thirty p.m.
-Until 9.30... p.m. -[Leire] Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And then you were supposed to be up and take care of this baby...
-Mm-hmm. -...from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.
-Yeah, I work a lot. -And then when do you work again
-as a nanny? The next morning? -I work again at 8 a.m.
-Oh! -Yeah, so I go straight
from one home to another. I go straight.
That's why I asked him if I could shower, otherwise, I will have shower at home.
Were you aware of the fact that she had a full-time job,
that she was coming to you afterwards?
We had the conversation where I said explicitly,
I don't feel that that's appropriate.
Do you want to start on a day where you're not working around the clock
because that's not safe.
And she said, "No, I do this all the time, I'm used to it."
We also did not tell her she could take a shower.
She asked for towels and usually we use a towel
when we're changing the baby because he's a boy--
No, she doesn't say you said it was okay,
she says your husband said it was okay, is that right?
Yes, she was sleeping.
Whatever, I'm just curious.
You know, I know that you probably have to hustle in order to make money,
to go to school and things,
but that's an impossible schedule for...
Well, I do it.
No, you don't do it well.
It's impossible to do it well.
You can't work 24 hours straight and the last eight hours of that
is watching an infant.
-[Leire] Well, everybody... -Taking a shower, washing your hair...
...I work for, they are happy with me and are really happy,
-and they leave five-star reviews. -[Judy] Ms. Pinto,
I don't care what you say to me, you're 24 years old.
I'm telling you that it's not safe to work a 12-hour day
with one family as a nanny,
and then come at 9:30 at night and be on from 10 to 6 in the morning
awake and alert, and able at a moment's notice to react to an infant.
That's what they were paying you for.
Not paying you to sleep and wash your hair.
-[Leire] Right. -Did you also bring a razor?
-[Leire] Yeah.
So you shaved your legs too.
-Yeah. Taking a shower. -[Judy] Just a second.
How many hours do you work for the other family?
Uh, I work since 8 a.m. to 9:30 p.m.
To 9:30 p.m.-- Why didn't you shower there?
-Because I ask him for permission. -No, no, no!
Why didn't you shower there?
Because I wasn't going to shower there and I was--
If he didn't give me permission, I wouldn't have showered.
I'm just asking you why you didn't shower there?
I didn't have my bathroom products in my previous house.
I was going to bring them to his home and ask him,
and he would have said no, I wouldn't have showered.
-But... -Just a second.
So you got off at 9:30 from the other place where you were working all day.
And where did you go?
I went to his home, I wanted--
Well, where did you get the shampoo, the razor?
Oh, my fiancé picked me up and he dropped me to work.
Your fiancé picked you up and you asked him
to bring your shampoo, your conditioner?
Is that what we're talking about, your shampoo, your conditioner,
a body wash and a razor?
-Yeah, he brought it. -Is that your belongings?
-[Leire] Yes. -Yeah.
-You have her belongings? -Uh, no.
No. Okay. You have a ridiculous counterclaim.
[laughing] As ridiculous as her lawsuit.
Your counterclaim alleges that you want the return of the money that you paid her.
-Yeah. -That's not happening.
What you're entitled to is to fire her,
-which you did. -Yeah.
She was there from 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.
She was paid for those hours.
I assume your baby was okay.
-Yeah. -Yes.
And the bathroom was a mess.
-Yeah. -According to you.
Wet towels on the floor and whatever, and you stubbed your toe.
-Yeah. -[Judy] That's what your husband says.
No, I broke my toe.
-It was-- yes. -That's not true.
-[Judy] You broke your toe? -Yes.
-Yeah. -Well, she doesn't pay for clumsy.
For your clumsy.
-What she did was clumsy. -[Judy] I'd like you to say--
The whole carpet through my house was wet.
-That's not true. -Which means--
[Judy] Just a second. There's nothing even here
that says the whole carpet in your house was wet.
-Yes, it does. -In the counterclaim, it says
there were wet towels all over the floor.
-No, it says the carpet was soaked. -Just a second.
Okay, I may be wrong, I'm gonna read it.
-[Lawrence] It's in the text messages-- -[Judy] Shh...! Yeah.
This is your counterclaim, you want to point out anywhere
where you say the carpet in your house was soaked.
Make a circle around it where you say the carpet in your house was soaked.
[indistinct] ...the conversation.
I don't care about conversation. Conversation isn't a pleading.
I mean, I don't know. It's only in the conversation.
-I only have it in the conversation. -[Lawrence] Yeah.
[Judy] It's not relevant in the conversation, madam.
It is relevant evidence because I did break my toe
-and it's not my clumsiness, it's hers. -[Judy] Just--
-Madam. -And I would like to add something.
You're not paying careful attention to me.
Kevin-- what is that?
What's in a text message may be proof of an allegation in your complaint.
Where you use proof to prove something that you allege was wronged.
You have to allege it first before you adduce proof.
You didn't allege it in your counterclaim
that carpeting in your house was wet.
-Do you understand? -Yes.
Perfect!
[dramatic music playing]
I suggest that if you want to be a nanny for babies,
you have to be responsible.
Working 24 hours a day is irresponsible.
Irresponsible taking care of an infant after you've worked a 12-hour day.
Period!
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Leire Pinto has accused her former employers,
Lawrence and Jennarose Papincak, of costing her work
after giving her a bad review.
Lawrence and Jennarose claim Leire is responsible
for breaking Jennarose's toe.
Now, I'm gonna see your-- this happened-- was it October 8th?
It was the-- it was October 9th, the morning after, um...
Okay. Do you have any medical records for the next day?
-For your toe? -No.
-Nothing? -No. I wasn't able to.
Shh! Just a second. The answer is no.
You said your toe was broken. Did you ever see a doctor?
-No. -[Judy] Okay...
Next part of your complaint is loss of income.
The loss of income is a result of your broken toe.
-Is that what you're saying? -Correct.
Well, you have no proof of your broken toe.
-Well, I don't know, I-- -You have no proof of your broken toe
so you can't have lost income as a result of proof of your broken toe.
We have images of her toe and the bruising
-of the toe. We didn't-- -I don't care. Listen--
We didn't go to a doctor
because we just have all these medical bills, we had our son,
we didn't have the time. You know, we didn't expect to get to this point.
You have no case against them. They're allowed to write a lousy review.
I suggest that if you want to be a nanny for babies,
you have to be responsible.
Working 24 hours a day is irresponsible.
Irresponsible taking care of an infant after you've worked a 12-hour day.
Period!
That's my judgment and this is my business!
You're putting your welfare ahead of the safety of an infant who relies on you.
-Correct, and-- -You don't have to answer me.
That's a fact!
You can't, even at age 24, work 12 hours,
come back, you shaved, showered, shampooed your hair, dried your hair,
and then in all probability went into a sound sleep.
That's not taking care of an infant.
Well, I didn't want to have germs on me.
That's not taking care of an infant.
The infant doesn't care whether you're sleeping with germs or without germs.
The infant cares whether or not somebody is there in case of an emergency
-after you've worked 12-- -I just didn't want him
-to steal my belongings. -[Judy] Listen to me.
I went with the police, I had the police report--
I don't care about your shampoo, madam.
I didn't do ten years of post-graduate study--
And I hire a private investigator.
-[Judy] Well... -I find out it's enough to get probation
and he have a recent restraining order between each other.
I don't want you to try to speak over me.
Take part of the $200 that they paid you for sleeping and buy new shampoo.
Buy new conditioner, take another $10 and buy body wash.
Do you understand?
You have to be responsible if you're taking care,
-supposedly taking care of people-- -I didn't want to get the newborn sick--
You're trying to talk over me!
-Why would you shave your legs? -[Judy] You have-- don't!
Nobody's asking you anything.
Thant makes no sense, I'm sorry,
why would you shave your legs for my son's safety? No.
-[scoffs] -You have no right to throw my belongings
-to the trashcan. -Yes, it was abandoned property.
Case is dismissed, the petition is dismissed,
as is the counterclaim. Goodbye. Put them out.
This court is adjourned.
[theme music playing]
I definitely think she's right about the negligence
that the plaintiff had with our son,
and you know, she put our son in danger, and you know, it was evident in,
you know, what the judge said.
I'm a really hard worker and she calling me irresponsible
was very unexpected because I've been working for over 50 families
in Santa Barbara, Montecito, and all the way around.
And they are all extremely happy with me.
The bathroom was messy where the towels were left,
and also she must have heard the baby cry because the carpet all the way around
where the bassinet was was soaking wet.
When I went there, I had been working all day,
and I asked Lawrence if I could shower, and he's the one who said yes
and gave me two towels.
So I'm assuming she ran out of the shower to check him,
and that led to that messy accident, which is where I broke my toe.
Yeah, that was not true at all. They were just lying because they wanted me--
They wanted for me to pay it in the childcare refund.
She abandoned him physically. She was not in the room
while he needed her, he was just born, like, weeks before.
With all the families I currently work for and I work in the past,
uh, yeah, they are very happy with me and I'm happy with them, I keep in touch.
You gotta watch, you know, when you're hiring people offline,
you know, it's due diligence.
And when we went back and found someone else, you know,
we made sure to be very clear and, you know,
to have a written agreement with them about what our expectations were.
This is the only family that I ever had an issue in my life.
You know, I do think that the agency, that an agency
that deals primarily with child and infant care
has a responsibility to...
vet the people and what jobs they have, and what job responsibilities they have.
Because as a lawyer, my head is, if the agency knew, which they did,
that she had a full-time job from 8:30 in the morning till 9:30 at night,
and then put her together with these people
from 10:00 at night until 6:00 in the morning,
you had to know that there was not going to be
a full-time attentive person taking care of an infant.
If, heaven forbid, something had happened to that infant
during the course of the night,
they would have a cause of action.
I don't know whether it would be ultimately determined in their favor,
against both the nanny and the agency.
Well, one thing I found interesting is the wife admitted to knowing
that she worked from 8:30 in the morning to 9:30 at night.
If I was the mother, I'd say, "I don't want you. Stay home."
Because that's irresponsible, so you can't--
I agree 100% that the agency has a responsibility to keep an eye
on the schedules of the nannies that they are sending out to people,
but they weren't completely in the dark about that.
I expected them to be in the dark about her job
that she was working for the whole day,
but that's a little bit on you as a parent.
If you decide to hire someone that you know
had just worked from 8:30 in the morning until 9:30 at night,
and then came to your house at 10 p.m.,
there's no way that you as a woman, as a person, as a parent,
you know that that's not going to be 100% attention on your baby.
On your baby. That's true, they had communication about it
-that I didn't actually look at. -She admitted to it, she said...
-She said, I knew-- -..."I knew she was--"
And I had asked, "Are you sure you don't want to come a different day?"
And the nanny said, "No, it's okay, I do this all the time."
But I would not-- even if you'd done that all the time, as a mother,
-I would not be comfortable with that. -I wouldn't either.
-Yeah, so... -I wouldn't either.
So if you want attentive care that you're comfortable with,
I wouldn't be able to sleep at night as a mother
if I knew that the person I left in charge of my newborn
had been working a full--
You don't know how many children she was caring for during the day
for that many hours.
So that's, that's a little bit on you too as a parent, you know, be careful about...
-I agree, I agree with that. -...who you hire.
I have to give the plaintiff credit. She is a student.
She's putting herself through school. She's working as much as she can.
-But don't put babies at risk. -The law-- risk--
And the lawsuit was-- and the lawsuit was actually ridiculous, you know,
for her shampoo, and her--
-It was foolish. -Yeah.
I think she was angry that she got fired and that there was a negative review.
[narrator] Have you been cheated? Go to JudyJustice.tv.
[theme music playing]