You perform marriages for a lot of people.
Yes.
He offered us money for reporting her.
He said, I'll give you money if you go report her to a county clerk.
She had a separate conversation with him.
So, he didn't offer you anything.
-No. -Okay, sit down.
Not a good witness.
[narrator] This is Judy Justice.
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Jennifer Flores is suing fellow minister,
Jean-Claude Bensoussan for defamation and lost wages.
[Kevin] Court, come to order. All rise.
[Judy] Have a seat, please.
Judge, case 4039, Flores versus Bensoussan.
-Okie-dokie. Thank you. -You're welcome.
[Judy] Now, you both somehow became marriage officiants.
And each of you claim that the other slandered them in your professions.
How did you become someone who could perform marriages?
I was working for an attorney,
and we would get a lot of clients
that were seeking to get married in county jail,
but they just didn't have services like that.
So, we didn't know where to refer them to.
So, at that time, my cousin had gone and married in county jail.
And she had an experience, and she was like,
you should get a certificate, it's only a little certificate.
And I'm early; I go inside the county jails to serve people--
Just a second. So, you became a marriage officiant
-by getting a certificate. -Yes.
Do you have to pay money for it?
-[Jennifer] Yes. -How much?
Forty-seven dollars.
And you do that now as, I assume, a side hustle.
Yes.
How much do you charge to perform weddings?
If they have I.D., $475,
if they don't have I.D., it's $600.
What kind of I.D. do they need and what would be the difference?
[Jennifer] Any government issued I.D.
In California, there's only certain clerks that will issue a marriage license
with the inmate not having specific identification.
Well, if they don't have identification and they can't get a license,
how do you marry them?
There's another clerk recorders. There's two in the state of California
that as of right now, issue them with just the Inability to Appear.
And that's where we go. It's about, one is three hours away
from where I'm at, the other's almost five.
I don't understand that.
So, there's a form that's called the Inability to Appear.
You can only get that for two reasons; incarceration and hospitalization.
That verifies through a notary, I'm also a notary,
but I don't do these notaries.
So, when my notary goes inside to get that form,
she's verifying that that is that person and no one else.
So, there's two clerks in California that will issue it
just with Inability to Appear. All the other clerks
want the Inability to Appear, plus I.D.
and birth certificate and the Inability to Appear.
So, it's a little more trouble to get it without an I.D.
-Yes. -[Judy] Okay.
Now, sir, how did you get to be a marriage officiant?
It was the same as her.
Same. So, you paid $47. And you've been doing it for how long?
Twenty-five years.
You've been doing it since--
January 16, 2022, I got ordained.
Okay. Now, you say that the plaintiff
has been slandering you for years.
Tell me what proof you have of that.
Well, we have Genesis here,
who can testify what happened at the jail not long ago.
-At the jail? -Yes. Inside the jail.
Okay.
Tell me your name.
Good evening, Your Honor, my name is Genesis.
How do you know him?
Well, I had hired him to marry me and my husband in jail
because I was gonna go to Ms. Flores,
and I didn't decide to hire her because I wanted a proper ceremony.
And I asked her what were her services.
She told me that she, at the time, she will only have me to sign paperwork
and my husband sign paperwork, but separated, no ceremony.
So, I thought that was illegal. So, that's when I hired--
-Okay. So, you called Ms. Flores first. -[Genesis] Yeah.
How did you get their names?
So, Ms. Flores, I seen her on social media,
'cause I was eager to marry my husband.
And that's when I contacted her and asked her for her services.
So, you saw her on social media.
-Yeah. -[Judy] And in your conversation,
-your husband is incarcerated. -[Genesis] Yeah.
And she said, you each sign paperwork and there's no ceremony
-that she performs. -Yeah. Yeah.
Do you remember that conversation?
-Just-- That's either a yes... -No.
-...or a no. -No.
Okay. Do you ever sign off on marriages
where the two parties just sign paperwork?
Your Honor, there's no way to.
Okay, that's all I want to know.
-So then, you called him. -Yes.
And you met him where?
Um, actually, one of the inmates inside got married by him.
So, he just passed me on the number to Jean.
Did the defendant actually perform the ceremony for you?
-Yes. -[Judy] When? On what date?
On June 15th, on a Saturday.
And what did he charge you?
He charged me $1,000, only because my husband doesn't have papers.
And we had to travel four hours away
to go to a, I guess to a clerk where they could approve it.
That's what you were talking about if you don't have I.D.
Yes, ma'am.
And did you ever have conversations with Ms. Flores about the defendant?
No. I didn't know nothing about her until when the day of my marriage.
Um, me and him had entered, and we were just sitting--
-[Judy] Entered where? -The facility.
And we sat down. And while we were waiting
for them to call my husband, that's when she came up to us
and started slandering him in front of me and my witness.
What did she say?
[Genesis] She just started telling me that he was a scam
and that he does girls dirty and doesn't do the full service,
and that she felt bad for me.
You remember that conversation?
Not that conversation, but there was a conversation.
[Judy] Okay.
[theme music playing]
Me and my friend, at the time, we were like, uh-oh, here we go.
[Judy] Just a second. So, you knew
that there was some friction between the two of them.
[Ryan] I had--
-That's either a yes or a no. -Yes, I did.
And how did you know that?
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Jennifer Flores claims fellow minister,
Jean-Claude Bensoussan, owes for defamation and lost wages.
Jean-Claude is countersuing for loss of business,
defamation and plagiarism.
So, tell me what you remember of the conversation.
So, they were sitting on a bench.
I was there performing five different marriages
from weeks before when I got the licenses.
-And? -I walked back to perform a ceremony,
'cause they had called the inmate that was gonna get married.
Um, actually, Ryan was sitting there as well, with someone else.
Just a second. Were you there?
-Yes. -[Judy] Go outside.
-Go outside now. -[Ryan] Okay.
[Judy] Okay, we're gonna take this step by step.
You went in the back, you performed a ceremony.
-Yes. -And?
So, Ryan told me that he was, as soon as I got up,
that he started just talking about me,
saying that I was a fraud, they were not gonna get their marriage licenses.
And I just looked over and I told the young lady,
I go, do you guys have a problem with me?
Because this is something that's been happening constantly, keeps happening.
And he just went off on me. And she was like,
I think it's messed up that you're slandering him.
I go, how do you know I'm slandering him if I've never said anything to you?
The only person that you would hear that from is him.
He looked at me, she was like, I go, you probably--
and my exact words were, you probably went with him
'cause he was a little bit cheaper.
She said no, he charged me $1,000 because he doesn't have papers.
I turn around, as a minister, I turned around and said,
Jean, you know that you don't submit any more documents
when they don't have papers.
There's nothing more or less that you submit
whether they have immigration status papers or not.
It's clear as day, it's--
Why are you having any conversation with her at all?
I'm not the one that initiated.
She turned around and said, you need to stop slandering him.
Just a second. And what did you say to her?
I turned around and I was like, and I said a cuss word.
I said, what are you... talking about? 'Cause I was already fed up.
You responded to her, I don't know what you're blank talking about.
And she said to you...
She said, you need to stop slandering him and saying false stuff about him.
Okay. And?
And I said, false stuff what? I'm not the one, I go--
Just a second. Let's go very slowly, make sure.
Because now, your witness is gonna come in and she hasn't heard all of this.
-Yes. -So, she's gonna tell me
her recollection of it. So, let's go very, very slowly.
Why are you blank slandering him? And you say to her...
I never slandered anybody. And I go, you probably went with him,
that's when I said, you probably went with him 'cause he's cheaper.
Then she responded, actually, no, he charged me over $1,000.
That's when I turned around and I wasn't engaging with her no more at all.
And I turned around and I told Jean, I said, me and you both know
that you shouldn't have charged her anything extra
because there's no extra paperwork. And I go, if you don't--
Why did you get involved with that?
Because she was telling me, you didn't want to marry me
because he doesn't have immigration status.
She didn't use the word status.
Or immigration. She doesn't have papers.
He didn't have I.D. You know, those are fungible terms,
I.D., immigration status.
He charged more because he had to travel four hours.
You charge more because you have to travel.
-He may charge more than you do. -Yes.
That's not your business. I still, I'm not understanding
why you got into a discussion with her. I'm still not understanding that.
All right. Would you bring in her witness, please?
-Your last name is? -Burton. B-U-R-T-O-N.
All right, Ms. Burton, we are going to fast forward
to the time in the county jail. What were you doing there with her?
I visit my husband as well. My husband is also incarcerated.
Did you know her from before this incident?
I did know her before this incident because she actually did ordain me.
-No, she didn't ordain you. -I mean,
she performed the ceremony, I'm sorry, yes.
[Judy] So, you were there visiting your husband.
Yeah, I go every weekend.
And I'd like you to tell me, Ms. Flores got up
-to perform the wedding. She came out. -Yes.
I want you to tell me what you heard, because you were sitting right there.
So, the inmate got called, so she goes with the wife of the inmate.
They go back there, does the ceremony and then, she comes right back out.
So, when she came out, I did notice that he turned his head.
-[Judy] Yes? -[Ryan] Um, and so,
me and my friend, at the time, we were like, uh-oh,
we were bumping elbows 'cause we're like, here we go.
[Judy] Just a second. So, you knew
that there was some friction between the two of them?
-I had-- -[Judy] That's either a yes or a no.
Yes, I did.
And how did you know that?
[Ryan] I knew that because prior to this situation,
one particular day, a Saturday, I was coming out from my visit,
and he was standing outside of the door. And so, I did hear him mention Jennifer.
And I believe it was with a potential witness.
And as he was stating the best bet is to go with me.
Because there are other officiants here
that do fraud and do scam and will play you out your money.
So, I already knew who the other officiant--
-[Judy] Just a second. -Sorry.
-[Judy] He didn't name anybody. -No.
-That's all you heard? -That's all I heard.
Okay. So now, you come out and you see him looking his eyes like this.
Yeah, he not looking his eyes, he turned his head.
Turned his head, and...?
And so, as he's turning his head, she came and sat right back down with us.
-[Judy] Okay. -So, once that happened,
and whatever the case may be, now he's going in whispering to his witness.
As he's whispering to his witness,
she turns around and looks at Jennifer and says, "You really shouldn't slander him."
Okay. And?
-And we all looked at each other-- -[Judy] Shh.
Sorry.
I don't want to hear what you all looked at.
What did Ms. Flores respond?
Ms. Flores said, "How am I slandering him and I don't even know you?"
Okay. And you're sure about that?
-Positive. -[Judy] How is he slandering you
-and I don't even know you. -[Ryan] Yes.
And then, what was said?
And then, the witness went on to saying--
No, look at me.
The witness went on to saying about how you say he's a fraud, you say he's this,
and Jennifer's reaction was, how can I say anything about him if I don't know you.
I can't tell you something about somebody else if I've never spoken to you.
Then, after that, I got called.
[Judy] Just a second.
-Okay, sit down. -[Ryan] Okay.
Okay. Now, we're gonna come to you.
[theme music playing]
You were with her when he discussed with Laylani in person
about what the services were.
-Yes. -And?
And he offered us additional money for reporting her.
-Oh! -[Judy] Just a second.
I want you to tell me exactly what he allegedly said to you.
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Jennifer Flores is accusing fellow minister,
Jean-Claude Bensoussan, of defaming her and making false reports to the county.
Jean-Claude claims Jennifer plagiarized his website.
Now, the second part of your lawsuit is...
that she copied your website.
Yes.
Are you saying she copied the services that are on it?
-I'll take a look. -She copied the content.
Verbatim.
Just let me see it.
[Jean-Claude] This is...
This is all the website.
And then, we pull out the content and that's what is here.
No, none of this is proprietary information, sir.
It's very straightforward.
You can perform marriages in jail, she can perform marriages in jail.
She lists the names, the addresses of all the places she can perform marriages.
You list all the names and addresses of the places you can perform marriages.
There's nothing that is proprietary.
Listen, is there not enough business for both of you?
There is.
Okay. So, I would suggest that you stop bad-mouthing each other.
Neither one of you proved really anything,
other than you're not talking nicely about somebody else.
And neither of you have any proof whatsoever that you lost any business.
I actually did lose money.
He actually had Ashley report me to Orange County Clerk Recorder.
I was placed under investigation and I was just cleared on September 12th.
[Judy] Who's Ashley?
That's you. Step up.
Sorry.
So, tell me who you are.
Hi, so, my name is Ashley.
-[Judy] Ashley what? -Garcia.
[Judy] Okay. And?
Um, I'm a friend of Laylani's.
Who is Laylani?
Laylani is one of my dearest friends.
He was gonna perform a service for her.
She was very nervous about the whole process
and wanted to inquire about it.
Did you ever speak to him?
-Yes. -When?
June 27th, when I went with my friend
to go see about her getting potentially married.
She felt like she wanted the moral support.
You were with her when he discussed with Laylani
-in person about what the services were? -Yes.
Okay. And?
And he offered us additional money for reporting her.
-Oh! -[Judy] Just a second.
I want you to tell me exactly
what he allegedly said to you.
So, he stated that, um, he was willing to give us an extra amount of money,
-and also-- -How much was he willing--
About $200 cash.
He was willing to give you $200 cash if you what?
If we reported her to the county as, um, her not performing her services,
or fraudulently performing her services.
No, it's not making sense to me.
She went there to inquire about getting married.
-Yes. -How does her name even come up?
Her name came up because he spoke about her being another officiant.
No, he would never bring her up as being another officiant.
He would never bring her up. Why would he bring up a competitor
of being another officiant? He had a potential client
who came with a friend to find out about the service.
-Mm-hmm. -I don't understand how her name came up.
Your friend is asking about getting married.
And how did her name come up
in this alleged bribe that he made to you?
[Ashley] As I mentioned, I just went as moral support--
[Judy] I don't care what you went there.
I don't care if you went there as a Chia pet.
I don't care. I want to know what you want me to buy
as to how her name came up, and he said, to two perfect strangers,
I'll give you money if you go report her to a county clerk.
So, like I mentioned, she was asking about the services.
She had a separate conversation with him.
Were you there when she had this separate conversation?
-[Ashley] No, she stepped away. -Shh. So she, okay.
Now we're getting somewhere. So, she stepped away with him.
And then she came back with him, or alone?
She came back alone with the offer that he had made her.
No. She came back alone and he wasn't there.
-No. -So, you had a conversation with her.
-Yes. -[Judy] That's hearsay.
So, he didn't offer you anything.
-No, not directly. -Sit.
Not a good witness for you to bring. You understand that, Ms. Flores?
I was just bringing her 'cause of the story they both told me
about the situation that happened.
She didn't hear anything.
No, but she's the one that called the county clerk to report me
to the clerk when I got suspended.
Whether she did that or not, that was on her.
How do I know that that was at his direction?
Maybe it was at her friend's direction? He didn't tell her to do anything.
Because nobody knew about the suspending. Only him--
He didn't tell her to do anything.
She first testified that they were together,
and that he made this offer to both of them.
But that wasn't true.
Do you understand why it's sketchy? It just didn't make sense to me.
Your case is dismissed. Yours too, sir.
I suggest you both learn to live with each other.
-Do you understand? -I do.
You should both learn to live with each other. You're in the same business.
It sounds as if you're never gonna be for want of product.
There are a lot of ladies who want to marry prison inmates.
For what? I haven't a clue.
But maybe I'm from another planet or another generation.
I would actually like to marry somebody and do a dance afterwards.
Have a spot of champagne, you know, something.
Go to a beach somewhere. When is your husband getting out of jail?
Um, actually, he got 15 to life.
Wonderful. Mazel tov.
-[all laugh] -We're done.
This court is adjourned.
[theme music playing]
All the lies that I heard from this plaintiff, it's unbelievable.
I was actually placed under investigation
for somebody calling to make a complaint that I was doing fraud.
So they have to put it under investigation.
But I've been cleared of everything, so I can go back to all of them.
Because she wants to be the only one to do this kind of business,
marrying people incarcerated.
He doesn't like me. Even on his countersuit
he said I've been defaming him for four years.
But how is that possible if my minister's license was since 2022.
I'm not young, so I will not do that forever. [chuckles]
I'm gonna marry everybody in county jail.
You know, at the very end, where you asked the defendant's witness
when is your husband, she just got married in June,
when is he getting out? She said, oh.
It sounded like an oh, in a couple of weeks. Or oh, next Thursday.
But instead it was, he's actually serving 15 to life.
And for someone who seemed so young and well spoken,
and seemed like she had, at least partially, her act together,
um, shocking. Shocking.
Shocking, yes. Life is a journey.
That it is.
If at the beginning of the journey you start off on the wrong foot,
sometimes, you can never recover your balance.
Oh, yeah.
[narrator] Are you having a family dispute?
Go to JudyJustice.tv.
[theme music playing]