She hit me first, Your Honor.
We're not talking about hitting, I'm talking about vandalizing a car.
She also threatened me with a knife.
You go outside with a knife.
Yes.
Over a guy.
This is Judy Justice.
Autumn Burke is suing her former friend Freya Brown
for vandalizing her car and an assault.
Court come to order. All rise.
Have a seat, please.
Hello, Judge. Case 2186. Burke versus Brown.
Thank you.
Ms. Burke, I understand that you and the defendant met
when you were both in foster care.
- Yes. - How old are you?
Nineteen.
And how old were you? If I can ask you these questions.
If you're uncomfortable, please let me know.
How old were you when you went into foster care?
Sixteen, I believe.
Were you originally placed in group homes?
Yes.
And through Orangewood Foundation as well as transitional housing programs.
When did you start transitional housing from group homes?
I started that when I was 17.
Um, that was in 2021, where I was roommates with Freya,
and we lived there.
Okay. And could you describe the facility where you were living?
We were living in Tustin in an apartment complex
where they rent out the rooms
and they have uh, foster kids go in there, and then they pay.
Well, they don't pay rent, but it's a transitional program
to move up to the extended foster care transitional housing program
for after you're 18.
So it's better be to be placed into this one.
So it helps foundation towards the next one.
- Towards total independence? - Yes.
And how long did you stay in that facility? Until when?
Like, a few months after I turned 18,
I got into the Costa Mesa
transitional housing.
Okay, from Costa Mesa, did you go into any other facility
through the foster care system,
or you're then supposed to get a job and get on your own two feet?
So this program, the Independent Living Program,
it's really hard for foster kids to get into.
You have to be set up with all the requirements.
And so...
What kind of requirements? Are there academic requirements?
Yeah, academic requirements.
Working, going to school,
meeting with the manager that comes in every week.
Yes.
Were you going to school? - Yes.
- What school were you going to? - Golden West College.
- Are you still going to school? - Yes.
I currently am taking a break from this semester,
but I'm still going to continue it.
Are you working? - Yes.
And you're living on your own?
I'm renting a room out in Irvine with two different roommates.
And Ms. Brown, what about you?
How long have you been in the foster care system and how old are you now?
I've been in the foster care system since I was 13 years old.
I am currently 19.
Tell me where you're living.
Right now I live in a rented room in a house also in Irvine.
- Tell me what you're doing. - Right now I work in sales.
I'm a sales associate.
- Is it a full-time job? - It's part-time.
I'm also in school. I go to Fullerton College,
and I'm a biology major.
Interesting. Are you good in science?
I really liked science in high school, so, yeah.
Well, you seem like two absolutely delightful ladies.
I don't know why you got into this kerfuffle,
but each one of you claim that you were assaulted by the other.
You claim that Ms. Brown caused vandalism to your car.
Ms. Brown says that you had her falsely arrested after this altercation,
which seems to be an unhappy event over a guy.
Over a guy.
I mean, there are necessary evils. But over a guy!
So two lovely girls who've probably weathered a lot of storms in your life
to keep together that most 15-, 16-year-olds don't have to do.
How could two nice girls get into a kerfuffle over a guy?
- I have no idea. - Go.
Okay, so on September 2nd, near 10:00 p.m.,
I was cooking us dinner, and Freya was sitting at the counter.
And then while I'm cooking dinner, I get a call from my ex.
- And he's just... - From your ex-boyfriend, not ex-husband?
Oh, yes.
- From your ex-boyfriend? - Yes.
Okay. And his name is, what's his first name?
- Uh, I would prefer... - Let's call him Kat.
Kat, yeah.
- So Kat... - You get a call from Kat.
Do you know Kat?
Personally, no, I do not know him.
Have you ever met him? - No, I have not.
Okay, so now you get a call from Kat,
and how long has he been your ex-boyfriend?
Well, we just have a "situationship." Like, it was just off and on.
But he just called me, and I just had him on the phone on speaker and...
So you had him on speakerphone, you're cooking her dinner,
she's sitting at the counter?
Yeah, and he starts making flirtatious comments, like saying
if I had any cute friends near around?
And I know it doesn't sound right, but...
It doesn't, no. It doesn't sound good, Ms. Burke.
Yeah, but that's just like, I know him and that's like a different story,
but regardless, then Freya...
So, what was he saying? I wanna know what he was saying.
You have to tell me 'cause she probably remembers what he was saying.
- I do. - So, if you don't remember, I'll ask her.
What did he say?
He asked, in general, if I had any cute friends near me or any around,
just saying if there is any cute friends near me so that he...
- That's not what happened. - Okay.
So, your ex-boyfriend calls you and asks you
if you have any cute friends around?
Yes. - And you didn't just hang up on him?
Well, yes, well, I told him, I said that I can't like see him tonight
and that he shouldn't be saying that.
But the call ended 'cause he had to go, 'cause he had to go back to work.
So, it ended quick.
Wait, just a second. He must have said something that annoyed her.
That was it. He just asked if I had...
Okay, you don't remember. What did he say?
He called her, they were talking for a minute, and then she was saying,
you know, "Oh, I miss you," this and that. And he was like, "Can I come over?"
At which point she told him, "Oh, I'm with my two friends."
And he was like, "Oh, what do they look like?
Are they cute? How old are they?"
Which I thought was disrespectful to me and also disrespectful to her.
I was trying to be a good friend. I informed her of it and...
So, he was acting... like a guy? Yeah.
- You know... - Yes.
Think before you talk, there's no filter here.
So, he said, "Oh really? You can't come over.
You have two friends. Are they cute? Are they nice-looking?"
And just to tell you, Ms. Brown, I don't think it was disrespectful.
I just think it's a stupid remark.
No. You know, do you understand?
I understand, but... It's just stupid.
The tone and then the content-- cause I, it was on speaker.
Like, I could hear everything, so...
So, when he hung up, what did you say to her?
After they hung up, I didn't say anything to her.
She said to me, she was like, "You don't know him.
You know, like, we're in love."
- And you said to her? - Basically saying I don't know him.
So, I was like, "Yes, you're completely right I don't know him,
but I don't wanna hang out with him," basically is what I told her.
Well, was he coming over? - No, no.
No, no, no. - I was just telling her like...
And what's your version? After he hung up, let me hear your version of what she said.
Okay, so after I hung up, it was just practically some of what she said,
but it was more in an aggressive way and with a lot of attitude, and...
Show me.
Uh, I get done with the phone and I'm cooking and then,
she wants to like humble under her breath and like say like, I don't know,
just rude things about the call, like just looking at me weird.
And I'm l like, what's the problem? And I was just...
Okay, so she's looking at you weird and you say, "What's the problem?"
And she says?
I don't know, she was going off and about
and then she started throwing trash on my counter and then threw it at me.
- Yeah, you did. - That is not true.
Now, I have to tell you something. So far it makes sense.
But then I don't want you to tell me, she just went from,
nothing disrespectful to throwing food around the counter.
- That didn't happen. - That did not.
Okay. So, before she started throwing the trash on my counter,
she was saying, um, how that I had attitude,
but I was telling her that I did not have attitude.
I was trying to deescalate the situation.
So far we're not attitude. So far she's mumbling.
- No, that's what she said. - She said it under her breath?
Yeah, and then so she, I don't know, like I said, it was a snap of a finger.
Like, I'd never seen her switch like that.
And, you know, I was confused, and then after she threw the trash,
I told her to grab your stuff and get outta my house.
And so I gave her time, she went in my room, grabbed her stuff,
I waited by the door, I had it wide open. And she's just cursing and yelling
and just like, just, I didn't want her in my house.
And if I would've known she was like that...
No, no, no. Don't-- let's not. Don't go down any tributaries.
When you got out to the car, she had a brick in her hand.
Was there any damage to the car?
Yes, I have photos, proof, to the left driver's side
and there's a video as well
of the neighbor's Ring camera
showing her vandalizing my car.
Okay, I'll see the video.
Autumn Burke claims her former friend,
Freya Brown, owes for vandalism and an assault.
Freya is countersuing for an assault and filing a false police report.
There's a piece that I'm missing from this story,
but let's say that following your timeline,
what probably makes sense is you got into an argument,
you said to her, "You know, he's really not that way.
He's really a nice guy and I love him."
And she said, "Well, somebody who really loves you doesn't say,
'I wanna come over and hang out with your two good-looking friends.'"
That could escalate into something that's angry.
Your Honor, well, the thing is, when she did mention those things,
they weren't calm as you expressed.
- Yes, they were. - No, they weren't.
They were very aggressive.
They could have been aggressive, but that's...
- They could've been aggressive but... - And I couldn't see the reason
why it shouldn't have been that way at all.
Listen, I'm not saying I agree with you or not,
but I'm saying that common sense dictates to me that if you're on the phone
with somebody that you still like, and that you're an on-again, off-again,
and, "You can't come over today because I have two friends here."
"Oh, really? You have two friends?
Maybe I'll come over and hang out with your two friends."
She found that disrespectful.
I actually find it disrespectful to you and disrespectful to him.
You really have nothing to do with it, Ms. Brown,
somebody else was being a schlemiel.
No. I mean I wasn't saying like... Okay.
All right, so now you tell her to get out, open her things,
she's out the door, and...?
Well, no, she's not out the door yet. So, then I have the door wide open.
She comes and then we're still, like, argumenting,
and I'm trying to get her out of my house.
- She pushes me, and I go back into... - That's not true.
- Yes, it is. - Ssh!
I go back into the door, and then she starts hitting on my arm,
like hitting me, so I'm like defending back.
And it was just crazy, like, I didn't realize I had the door wide open
for her to get out, but, like, peacefully.
Okay, so she pushes you,
she puts her hands on you, you put your hands on her,
pushing, pushing.
And up until that point, there's a lot of maybe pushing, touching the arms,
touching the hands, but nobody is injured.
Is that a fair statement? Standing at the door?
Well, I got assaulted 'cause I have the pictures
to show that my nail came off.
No, I just, I'm asking you a question.
Up until that time, did your nail come off during that time?
- Yes. - Was it a real nail or a fake nail?
Both. Both of my nails came off. Like it was...
On the same finger? You had a fake nail over your real nail?
And it both ripped off.
Okay. I'll take a look.
Okay, I see a black-and-blue mark here that's under here.
Mm-hmm. - Right?
Yes. - And this is on your hand?
Yes.
What was this? - From blocking her hitting me.
- What was she hitting you with? - Just her hands.
She was just like a cat fight. Like she just went crazy.
And so I was figuring out, trying to get her out of my house.
Okay. Did you respond to her hitting you?
- Yes. - Yes. Do you have any photographs?
- Yes, I do have photos. - I'd like to take a look.
Okay.
- So, I see a scratch above your eye. - Mm-hmm.
And a little bruise on this part of your hand.
- Is that what it is? - Yes, on my wrist.
And then there's a bruise on, is it this part of your elbow?
My elbow, yes.
Okay, so now you're arguing with each other,
you both get banged up a little bit.
- Now she's outside. - Yes.
And what did you do? You finally got her out the front door.
So, after a few minutes, she called me and said, "Warning, I'm at your car."
So, when I heard that, I called the cops immediately
and I asked them to come down because I think she's gonna be
vandalizing my car or God knows what.
And then, so, when that happened,
me and my witness, Jasmine, we walked down outta my house
'cause I wanted to go see, like, if my car, like, what was going on.
And so, as I'm walking out, my car's parked over here.
Um, Freya's over here, and so when I'm walking out,
then I meet her right here, and she has a brick in her hands.
And, yeah, she had a brick in her hand the whole time
until the cops came and then they arrested her,
and they asked me if I wanted to file for assault and vandalization,
and I said yes.
Okay, and when you got out to the car, she had a brick in her hand.
Was there any damage to the car?
Yes, I have photos, proof, to the left driver's side,
and there's a video as well of the neighbor's Ring camera
showing her vandalizing my car.
- Yeah. - Oh, sorry.
Lemme see the damage, and then I'll see the video.
Thank you.
- Okay, now I'll see the video. - Okay.
This bitch won't let me get in a chat fight.
You're good. I'm good.
Okey-dokey!
That's where you were arrested, Ms. Brown?
- Yes. - Have you ever seen that video before?
- I have not. - You have not?
- No. - Okay.
Can I see the estimates to the damage to your car?
Yes, ma'am.
Tell me when you bought this car.
I bought this car on August 1st in 2022.
It was my first car. I paid for it full all by myself.
You paid for it in cash?
Oh, yes. And a check.
Okay. How long had you been saving for the car?
Oh, I've been saving for it for years.
Like, a few years, ever since I've been working.
How much did you pay for it?
I paid a total of, I believe 7,300 and something dollars.
Okay. So, the estimate to fix the car...
is $3,777?
Yes, ma'am.
And the next thing is this price of the vehicle for which you paid 7350.
Yes.
Now Ms. Brown, one would say to you as a result of seeing that video,
temper, temper, temper, you may have a temper.
You can't do what you did.
Would you acknowledge that you can't do what you did?
- Yes, I acknowledge that. - Great.
So that means that you have to take care of this problem.
She hit me first, Your Honor.
- We're not talking about hitting. - I understand.
I'm talking about vandalizing a car.
- She says the weapon was a knife. - It was.
And the knife was being held by you.
- Yes, in self-defense. - So, you took...
No, she says it's not in self-defense anymore, madam.
It's not self-defense. She's out. She's away from you.
Autumn Burke has accused her former friend,
Freya Brown, of vandalism and assault.
Freya claims Autumn threatened her with a knife
and filed a false police report.
Neither one of you were hospitalized as a result of this assault.
You got a couple of black-and-blue marks.
- Two girls had a fight... - She also threatened me with a knife.
...and it shouldn't, that shouldn't have happened.
But now the fight is deescalated, and you went outside
and purposely vandalized her car in a very, very aggressive way.
And all I'm saying to you is you understand
that that was temper, temper, temper.
You're not allowed to, do that and you have to pay for it.
She also threatened me with a knife.
She what? - Threatened me with a knife.
Just a second. I didn't see that
when you were out there by yourself picking up a brick, right?
- Yes. - And that was a long video.
I don't see her in that video at all.
I just see you picking up the brick, not doing enough damage,
picking it up, doing a little more damage,
picking it up, going to another side of the car,
picking it up, going to the front of the car.
I don't see her there threatening you.
She didn't threaten me at that point.
Right. Clearly, when you left the house,
that ugly confrontation had been deescalated.
It had not, actually.
Of course it was because you were out there by yourself. You could have gone.
And if it was an ugly confrontation, you go to the police station and you say,
"I left my license in my friend's car. We had a fight.
Could you come back with me on a standby and get my license?"
Instead of using a brick to bash in her car.
My circumstances were different from Autumn's.
I would like to inform you of that.
What were your different circumstances?
Well, I was supposed to be moving in three days,
which Autumn was aware of.
So, had I called the police and been like,
oh, I need this help, then I would have jeopardized my housing.
Oh, no, that's not true. Sorry. Sorry about that Ms. Brown.
If you called the police and merely said to them,
"I don't wanna have an argument with her,"
that would not have jeopardized you getting into housing.
Having this fight and vandalizing her car,
that could prevent you from getting into housing.
- That's what got me kicked out. - I'm not, just I'm...
Just telling you, calling the police is not an issue.
Going outside and for a period of probably at least 60 seconds
and moving from different parts of her car and hitting it with a brick
and bending down and picking up the brick again,
that would prevent you from getting into housing.
I wasn't referring to the calling the police. I meant the fighting.
Oh, I'm not talking about the fighting.
3775, that's the cost of fixing the car.
Now the only other issue that you have on your counterclaim
is for being falsely arrested.
- Yes. - I would arrest you for that.
You should be.
Listen, if I came out of my house and found somebody bashing
my property, I don't care if we had a long-standing feud
and we're, "Well, I have a long-standing feud with her, we had an argument.
We had a fight," whatever.
That is not the natural progression of having an altercation
with an old friend, going out and vandalizing her car.
So your counter suit for being falsely arrested is dismissed.
Judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $3775.
Your Honor, I would like to be rightfully... for losing my housing
during that process because of that incident.
Because of the transitional housing program I was in,
I got kicked out of it, and so I had 30 days.
So, I believe I should be getting for that as well because...
Where's the head of the Department of Social Services to testify before me
that the reason you lost your housing, if in fact you did lose your housing,
was because of this vandalism?
You have a witness here to tell me that?
I have the 30-days' notice, if that counts.
- May. I'll take a look. - Yes.
Oh, here it is.
This says, "This letter is to give you written 30-day notice
to move out of the transitional housing program.
You were involved in a verbal-physical altercation
which involved a weapon with another individual
and resulted in the police being called on September 1st, 2022.
When you went to the program, you were informed and signed paperwork
agreeing to our program rules and expectations."
Who was it alleged that had the weapon?
She had a knife.
I brought-- that's self-defense. I dropped it right when I saw you.
Just a second. - No, you didn't.
- Yeah, I did. - Just a second.
Well, just a second.
She says the weapon was a knife.
- It was. - And the knife was being held by you.
- Yes, for self-defense. - So, you took...
No, she says not in self-defense anymore, madam.
It's not self-defense. She's out. She's away from you.
Your choice is to call the police and wait.
Your choice is not to pick up a knife.
'Cause so far this altercation has been
a lot of tussling between girls that shouldn't have happened.
But so far, nothing involved a weapon.
So, you went outside with a knife.
And according to the rules, you can't do that.
And that was the reason that you lost your housing
because there's no other reason.
It said it involved a weapon, and they listed the rules.
Drugs, alcohol, assault, danger-making threats.
Well, you have a knife, that's threats, whatever.
3775, fix your car. You're not allowed to do that to her car.
That's a hissy fit. Figure out how to do it.
Your counterclaim's dismissed.
You should have been arrested for vandalism, goodbye.
This court is adjourned.
Well, I was in shock. I was like, wow.
Like I, over no reason. Over my ex calling me?
Like, come on, like we're adults now.
I'm gonna move on with my life and just go up from here and not down here,
where other people like to take me down to their level.
I'm super thankful to have her handle my case today. She is a queen.
You know what I was really impressed with, with both of those girls, Sarah?
You know, I know the foster care system
usually wherever it is, can be a brutal system to negotiate.
And these two young women, at least on the surface,
appear to have negotiated it
in an orderly, reasonable way.
- I mean, she's living on her own. - Mm-hmm.
She evidently worked for a very long time
because she saved up and bought her own car.
- That's... - Yeah.
- It's a big deal. - I wanna respond, that's a big deal.
And even be able to figure out the system, which even as lawyers sometimes
we have a difficult time navigating things in the foster care system.
To figure out this transitional program that better sets you up for the next step,
that sets you up better for the next step.
I respected that, that she took the time to figure out...
- Both of them. - Both, both.
Their best possible options for navigating the system that they were placed in.
- Both working. - Yes.
Both going to school to try to get themselves into a better circumstance.
The defendant certainly is a biology major, which fascinates me.
- Not our thing. - Not our thing.
Great for her.
But clearly, bright young women who made it to a place at age 19.
- That's really terrific. - Yeah.
And supportive of each other because one had a license, one didn't.
So, they were supporting each other.
All very little-- and get into a kerfuffle over nothing.
It shows just how fast all that work and all that preparation
for the next step and for the housing can just crumble.
Can just unravel. Really sad. That's sad.
But they seem like two nice young women
and I think that they have a really-- both of them have a shot.
Yeah, to make it back on track, and I hope they do.
Me too.
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