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{\an8}You lived with him in his home?
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00:00:02,934 --> 00:00:05,166
- Yes, ma'am.
- There was a dispute.
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I received partial or no rent payments.
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- As a result of this harassment?
- That's correct.
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00:00:11,066 --> 00:00:14,700
Ridiculous. Do you know my
husband harasses me every day?
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[narrator] This is Judy Justice.
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♪
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00:00:35,767 --> 00:00:40,233
{\an8}Mark Mikelonis is suing his
former roommate Christopher Robertson
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00:00:40,300 --> 00:00:44,166
for rent, a security deposit
and stolen property.
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[bailiff]
Court come to order. All rise.
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00:00:46,266 --> 00:00:47,200
Have a seat, please.
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00:00:49,133 --> 00:00:53,333
Hello, Judge. Case 2066.
Mikelonis versus Robertson.
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- Thank you.
- You're welcome.
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Mr. Robertson,
how long had you been living
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in your apartment prior to
renting a room to the plaintiff?
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I believe it was about three years.
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[Judy]
You had been living there by yourself?
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No, I had roommates previously.
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When did the plaintiff move in?
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I believe that it was
January 1st of 2017.
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- 2017?
- It may have been 2018.
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- It was the first, I forget.
- It was 2018.
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{\an8}That's correct.
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{\an8}[Judy]
How long did he live there with you?
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{\an8}He lived there with me
until September of 2021.
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- So far, that correct, sir?
- Yes, ma'am.
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[Judy]
So now let me understand this lawsuit.
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Mr. Robertson lived in
his apartment for three years.
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You answered an ad for a room.
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00:01:36,934 --> 00:01:40,533
You lived with him in his home as a tenant
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{\an8}from January 2018 until September 2021.
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- {\an8}-
- Correct. At that time there was a dispute.
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We will get into that in a moment.
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There was a dispute.
During part of that time,
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Mr. Mikelonis, you did not pay rent.
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- Is that correct? During COVID?
- That's correct.
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For what period of time
did you not pay rent?
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00:02:02,333 --> 00:02:04,467
Um, there was, I-- Uh...
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Give me how many months did not pay rent.
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There was...
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You don't have to think out loud.
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How many months between January of 2018
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and September 2021 did you not pay rent?
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- {\an8}-
- Give me a number that's a number.
- There was four months.
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{\an8}Some--some months I paid partial rent,
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So there were four months
that I did not pay any rent.
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[Judy] Four months, no rent.
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And how many months
did you pay partial rent?
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Uh, I believe that
would have been four or three.
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00:02:33,533 --> 00:02:35,800
[Judy] So for seven months,
you did not pay your rent.
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Paying partial rent is not rent.
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Now, my question to you, Mr. Robertson,
is this is an apartment that you rent.
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- Yes.
- [Judy] Or rented
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Mm-hmm.
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{\an8}From January 2018 until September 2021,
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{\an8}was your rent current?
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{\an8}My portion of the rent was current.
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{\an8}[Judy]
What do you mean, "your portion"?
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My portion that I was responsible for.
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No, it's your apartment.
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You're responsible for
the whole thing, Mr. Robertson.
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- Yes.
- [Judy] Okay.
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You're responsible for the whole rent.
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And if what you chose to do
was to say to your landlord,
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"Listen, I have a roommate.
I'm just paying my portion of the rent.
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- My roommate isn't paying his,"
- Right.
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- [Judy] then your rent wasn't paid.
- Yes.
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And I assume that your rent
wasn't paid for the same period of time
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that he didn't pay
you his portion of the rent.
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Yes.
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[Judy] Was it for any
period of time greater than that?
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Greater than the four months or
the seven months that he didn't pay rent?
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I went through my bank statements,
and they went back until...
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Um, I believe, July of 2020,
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and that's as far back
as my bank app lets me go.
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- [Judy] Okay.
- There were more months than that
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that I received partial
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or no rent payments for...
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- [Judy] From him.
- From him.
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[Judy]
I'm asking you about your landlord.
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If you didn't pay your landlord,
you're telling me your landlord
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didn't file an eviction against you?
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{\an8}There were several months that he did,
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{\an8}um, pay his full rent,
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{\an8}and so that would have
meant that the entire
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- rent for that period--
- [Judy] Well, I know,
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but if the rent was not paid,
did your landlord ever
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{\an8}serve you an eviction notice?
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{\an8}No. There was an eviction moratorium
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{\an8}in Alameda County at that point.
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For unpaid rents due to COVID.
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[Judy] Gotcha.
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So that-- would it be a fair statement
that you both took advantage of that?
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He took advantage of it, and so did you.
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- I--
- [Judy] Um...
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I wouldn't say that it was, uh,
me trying to take advantage.
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I would just say it was my
inability to cover the entire rent.
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Your portion as well as his.
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My portion was always covered.
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- [Judy] Your portion was covered.
- Yes.
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[Judy]
Okay. Now, Mr. Mikelonis,
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when did you move from month and year?
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It was September of 2021.
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[Judy]
And when did you leave there?
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I believe it was the third or
fourth week of August of 2021.
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So you both left
the place at about the same time?
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Um, I left involuntarily, but yes.
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[Judy] Well, you left involuntary,
because that's what this case is about.
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Okay, so now I have the structure of it.
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Do you understand the structure of it?
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- I understand.
- You understand the structure of it?
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I just want to make sure
that people out there watching
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understand the structure of it.
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So you were the rentor,
and you had an argument,
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it resulted in a protective order,
for somehow, some genius
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put him out of his own apartment
because of these protecti--
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{\an8}You weren't in the hospital for anything,
were you, as a result of an assault?
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- {\an8}-
- No.
- [Judy] No.
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{\an8}You have no medical records
there being treated for any injury.
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- It was harassment.
- [Judy] Just a minute.
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Do you know my husband
harasses me every day?
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[chuckling]
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Every day.
I couldn't think of evicting him.
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I mean, you do other things.
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So the answer is
you were never treated for any illness.
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You were never treated for
anxiety at a hospital
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as a result of this harassment.
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As a result of your allegations,
let us say, of harassment,
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{\an8}Mr. Robertson was
ejected from his own home,
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{\an8}from which you had not been paying rent.
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Your portion that you were
supposed to pay
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contractually with him
for months because of COVID.
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Am I getting this story right? So far?
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I'm not finished yet, but so far,
is there anything that I said was wrong?
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Um, I think that's pretty close.
I mean--
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[Judy]
Okay, so that's pretty close.
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And now what you are seeking here is,
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should I say "basically"
and I hate that word,
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basically,
but it's appropriate in this case.
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So all of those haters out there,
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"Ah, she used use basically,"
I don't care.
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- [audience chuckling]
- It's appropriate here.
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♪
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{\an8}And I put in the protective
order that they were living with me.
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{\an8}But they were moving.
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{\an8}No, no, no.
"They were living with you"?
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{\an8}You were living with them.
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{\an8}Well, yeah, we were living together.
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00:06:28,867 --> 00:06:32,400
{\an8}No, you were living with the defendant.
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{\an8}He wasn't living with you.
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♪
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{\an8}♪
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{\an8}[narrator] Mark Mikelonis
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00:06:46,533 --> 00:06:49,233
{\an8}claims his former roommate,
Christopher Robertson,
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00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:53,200
owes for rent, a security deposit
and stolen property.
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00:06:53,266 --> 00:06:57,266
Christopher is countersuing,
claiming Mark owes him for rent.
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00:06:57,333 --> 00:07:00,367
Now, what you're claiming
in your lawsuit is that
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after a review of the copy
of the underlying lease,
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00:07:05,700 --> 00:07:10,200
you found that you are paying
the vast majority of the rent.
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Correct.
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[Judy]
And so you want a return of that money.
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That's correct.
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Under what theory in the law?
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Well, basically that he defrauded me.
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{\an8}[Judy]
No, no, now you can't use a "basically."
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- {\an8}-
- Okay. Okay.
- [audience chuckling]
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00:07:23,367 --> 00:07:28,000
I want to know what theory
is there in the law
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that says if I own a building
and I lease to someone
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the whole building for $10,000.
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And then I find somebody who
is prepared to pay me--
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And I have
the first two floors of the building.
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Third floor is vacant.
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I find somebody who's willing to pay
me $9,000 a month
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just for the top floor.
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That makes me a good business person.
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But unless there is some
thing that prohibits him
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- from doing that--
- There is, Your Honor.
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00:07:57,867 --> 00:08:00,700
- [Judy] Show me.
- There's a clause in the lease.
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00:08:00,767 --> 00:08:02,166
- [Judy] No, just show me.
- Okay.
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00:08:02,233 --> 00:08:04,400
- I'm a lawyer. I can read a little.
- [Mark] So the sub--
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00:08:04,467 --> 00:08:06,567
The sub lease that I
agreed to with him
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incorporates the entirety of this--
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Just a second.
I'd just like to see it, please, sir.
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00:08:10,934 --> 00:08:13,066
- Okay.
- [Judy] I'd just like to see it.
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00:08:18,333 --> 00:08:22,033
I assume you've
highlighted what you want me to read.
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00:08:22,100 --> 00:08:23,633
- Correct.
- [Judy] Okay.
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00:08:23,700 --> 00:08:29,600
So what you're pointing to
is that the landlord, his landlord,
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00:08:29,667 --> 00:08:31,567
was not advised that you were subletting.
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00:08:31,633 --> 00:08:32,734
No.
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00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,834
[Judy] Well, that's why--
"signed by every tenant."
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00:08:34,900 --> 00:08:38,667
So that was one of the things,
because if you look at the second lease,
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00:08:38,734 --> 00:08:40,734
{\an8}the one that was altered by Christopher
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00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,400
{\an8}to remove those areas so I wouldn't be...
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00:08:44,467 --> 00:08:47,667
I wouldn't be able to enforce them,
uh, was because
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00:08:47,734 --> 00:08:51,266
he moved his--his boyfriend
in without getting my consent.
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00:08:51,333 --> 00:08:54,100
And then so it says in there
that he needs written consent.
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00:08:54,166 --> 00:08:56,834
I understand that that doesn't
apply to me, but he thought it did.
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00:08:56,900 --> 00:08:59,166
And so he used
White-out on the other lease
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00:08:59,233 --> 00:09:02,567
that I gave to you
to obfuscate those terms.
200
00:09:02,633 --> 00:09:04,567
I don't know how to
put this to you, sir,
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00:09:04,633 --> 00:09:06,133
other than to say...
202
00:09:06,867 --> 00:09:08,367
Let me backtrack.
203
00:09:08,433 --> 00:09:09,734
What kind of work do you do?
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00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:10,867
I'm a web developer.
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00:09:10,934 --> 00:09:12,367
[Judy]
You work for yourself or for a company?
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00:09:12,433 --> 00:09:13,967
I do. I'm an independent contractor.
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00:09:14,033 --> 00:09:15,467
[Judy]
How long have you been doing that?
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00:09:15,533 --> 00:09:16,433
Two years.
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00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:17,867
[Judy]
Prior to that, what were you doing?
210
00:09:17,934 --> 00:09:19,333
I was a system administrator.
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00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:20,433
[Judy] For whom?
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00:09:20,500 --> 00:09:22,500
Uh, for a small company in San Francisco.
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00:09:22,567 --> 00:09:24,100
How long did you work for them?
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00:09:24,166 --> 00:09:25,734
Uh, six years.
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00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,100
So for two years, you were
an independent web developer
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00:09:28,166 --> 00:09:29,300
{\an8}and you're still
an independent web developer,
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00:09:29,367 --> 00:09:30,367
{\an8}Correct.
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00:09:30,433 --> 00:09:31,667
{\an8}[Judy]
And that's how you support yourself.
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00:09:31,734 --> 00:09:33,233
- {\an8}-
- Right.
- [Judy] So you work out of your home.
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00:09:33,300 --> 00:09:34,367
{\an8}Right.
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00:09:34,433 --> 00:09:35,667
And you've been working out of your home,
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00:09:35,734 --> 00:09:37,700
you said, the last two years, since 2020.
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00:09:37,767 --> 00:09:40,433
- This is 2022 or 19.
- Right.
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00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:41,667
[Judy]
What do you mean "right"?
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00:09:41,734 --> 00:09:42,734
So, it was, uh, it would've been--
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00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,600
When you moved in 2018,
were you an independent contractor?
227
00:09:46,667 --> 00:09:47,867
No, I was going to school.
228
00:09:47,934 --> 00:09:49,233
- You were going to school.
- Right.
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00:09:49,300 --> 00:09:50,166
- For what?
- -I--
- I went--
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00:09:50,233 --> 00:09:51,100
[Judy]
Just a second. For what?
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00:09:51,166 --> 00:09:53,433
For, uh, web--web technologies.
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00:09:53,500 --> 00:09:56,500
It was a program for
web development technology.
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00:09:56,567 --> 00:09:58,233
[Judy] Did you go in person?
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00:09:58,300 --> 00:10:00,934
- Yes, it was an intensive.
- How-- for how long?
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00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,533
Uh, it was, uh, three months.
236
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:04,700
It was eight hours a day.
237
00:10:04,767 --> 00:10:06,500
Okay. So you went to school
for three months.
238
00:10:06,567 --> 00:10:08,233
- [Mark] Right.
- During what period of time?
239
00:10:08,300 --> 00:10:14,133
Uh, January 2018 to, uh,
end of March 2018.
240
00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,934
Okay. And at that time,
you were living with the plaintiff.
241
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,000
[Mark] Correct.
242
00:10:18,066 --> 00:10:20,266
Okay, so you needed a room for that
three month period,
243
00:10:20,333 --> 00:10:22,800
and after that time,
you supported yourself
244
00:10:22,867 --> 00:10:25,700
by being your own boss,
by developing websites.
245
00:10:25,767 --> 00:10:27,633
It took me a while
to find a job, but yes.
246
00:10:27,700 --> 00:10:29,567
What do you mean it took you
time to find a job?
247
00:10:29,633 --> 00:10:32,266
The interview process to get work--
I was interviewing,
248
00:10:32,333 --> 00:10:35,333
it was very hard
to break into that industry.
249
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:36,600
[Judy]
And so what did you do?
250
00:10:36,667 --> 00:10:40,033
So I started taking on, like,
independent work.
251
00:10:40,100 --> 00:10:42,200
So you never actually got a job
252
00:10:42,266 --> 00:10:44,433
outside of the independent work
that you do?
253
00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:45,400
That's correct.
254
00:10:45,467 --> 00:10:47,200
So you support yourself by doing
255
00:10:47,266 --> 00:10:48,934
web development out of your home. Yes.
256
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,734
[Judy] So you used the
home that you were living in,
257
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,600
- the room that you were renting,
- Mm-hmm.
258
00:10:53,667 --> 00:10:56,233
for not only your personal business,
259
00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:59,500
but you operated a place of
business out of your residence.
260
00:10:59,567 --> 00:11:01,166
- Okay.
- What do you mean, "Okay"?
261
00:11:01,233 --> 00:11:02,967
- Yes. [chuckles]
- [Judy] Yes.
262
00:11:03,033 --> 00:11:04,767
I just want you to see
how ridiculous you are.
263
00:11:04,834 --> 00:11:07,433
You want $10,000 because you overpaid
264
00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:09,600
what you consider
a fair share of the rent.
265
00:11:09,667 --> 00:11:10,600
That's not gonna happen.
266
00:11:10,667 --> 00:11:12,533
You come here, you didn't pay rent
267
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,133
for at least seven months
because of COVID,
268
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,000
you were working, according to you.
269
00:11:17,066 --> 00:11:18,600
You were a web developer, still are.
270
00:11:18,667 --> 00:11:20,834
It's 2022 because
you have no other job
271
00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:22,233
other than being a web developer.
272
00:11:22,300 --> 00:11:25,400
You stopped paying rent.
You moved out after he did.
273
00:11:25,467 --> 00:11:26,467
- Correct?
- Well--
274
00:11:26,533 --> 00:11:28,100
- [Judy] Did you pay--
- I'd like to correct something--
275
00:11:28,166 --> 00:11:30,433
[Judy]
In the month that you lived there
276
00:11:30,500 --> 00:11:33,066
when you had put him out of his house
277
00:11:33,133 --> 00:11:35,700
- because you were-- because--
- They were moving out.
278
00:11:35,767 --> 00:11:37,200
I did not put him out of the house.
279
00:11:37,266 --> 00:11:39,000
I thought there was a protective order.
280
00:11:39,066 --> 00:11:40,834
It was, but they were--
281
00:11:40,900 --> 00:11:42,633
I put in the protective order
282
00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:44,734
that they were living with me,
283
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,967
but they were moving, and so...
284
00:11:47,033 --> 00:11:48,066
No, no, no, no.
285
00:11:48,133 --> 00:11:50,066
"They were living with you"?
You were living with them.
286
00:11:50,133 --> 00:11:51,600
Well, yeah, we were living together.
287
00:11:51,667 --> 00:11:55,600
No! [chuckles]
You were living with the defendant.
288
00:11:55,667 --> 00:11:57,066
He wasn't living with you.
289
00:11:57,133 --> 00:12:01,233
You were renting the place,
although you weren't paying rent from him.
290
00:12:01,300 --> 00:12:04,400
And the underlying
landlord wasn't getting his money,
291
00:12:04,467 --> 00:12:06,533
all of his money,
because he wasn't getting your money.
292
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,800
And what's coming to me is
293
00:12:08,867 --> 00:12:12,266
that somebody got stiffed with rent,
294
00:12:12,333 --> 00:12:14,700
and that would be the landlord
295
00:12:14,767 --> 00:12:18,066
{\an8}who rented you your place
where you were living
296
00:12:18,133 --> 00:12:19,867
because you didn't
pay him the whole thing.
297
00:12:19,934 --> 00:12:21,867
You didn't pay him the whole thing.
298
00:12:21,934 --> 00:12:24,367
And now you want me--
you're asking me
299
00:12:24,433 --> 00:12:28,200
to award you $10,000
for overpayment of rent.
300
00:12:28,266 --> 00:12:29,667
[Mark]
Your Honor, can I clarify something?
301
00:12:29,734 --> 00:12:33,166
The--the times when I didn't pay rent,
302
00:12:33,233 --> 00:12:36,166
I was not working.
Like, it was during COVID.
303
00:12:36,233 --> 00:12:38,033
{\an8}So the first couple of
months of the COVID lockdown,
304
00:12:38,100 --> 00:12:40,100
{\an8}I lost all my contracts,
so I didn't have any money.
305
00:12:40,166 --> 00:12:42,133
And so I was using the COVID--
306
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:43,667
There was a COVID process
307
00:12:43,734 --> 00:12:46,133
where you could, you know,
basically say that, you know--
308
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,467
There's no "basically" in there.
Only I used it once.
309
00:12:48,533 --> 00:12:49,834
- [Mark] Okay. I was just--
- [audience chuckles]
310
00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:51,433
I did not have the money to pay rent.
311
00:12:51,500 --> 00:12:53,533
I was not just making money
and not paying rent.
312
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:54,567
I would not do that.
313
00:12:54,633 --> 00:12:57,800
I was broke. All my contracts
dried up because nobody had any money.
314
00:12:57,867 --> 00:12:58,900
I was working for small companies--
315
00:12:58,967 --> 00:13:00,233
So what are you suing him for now?
316
00:13:00,300 --> 00:13:01,600
The government was very good to you.
317
00:13:01,667 --> 00:13:04,133
This is a very interesting America.
318
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,433
It's a rent forgiveness--
It's a rent moratorium.
319
00:13:07,934 --> 00:13:10,100
That doesn't mean
the state where you live.
320
00:13:10,166 --> 00:13:11,066
What state do you live in?
321
00:13:11,133 --> 00:13:12,467
- California.
- [Judy] California.
322
00:13:12,533 --> 00:13:14,834
That doesn't mean
the owner of this premises
323
00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:17,500
was given some sort of a break,
324
00:13:17,567 --> 00:13:22,600
that they didn't
have to pay for utilities, taxes,
325
00:13:22,667 --> 00:13:26,700
mortgage on the building
because it's... it's used as a business.
326
00:13:26,767 --> 00:13:30,166
As far as I know,
there wasn't a moratorium on that.
327
00:13:30,233 --> 00:13:35,033
But there was a moratorium
on two seemingly able-bodied people
328
00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:37,934
to say to the landlord,
"I can't pay my rent."
329
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,300
And-- [laughs]
330
00:13:39,367 --> 00:13:40,500
To add insult to injury,
331
00:13:40,567 --> 00:13:42,867
you think that I'm going to
give you $10,000
332
00:13:42,934 --> 00:13:45,033
because he charged you
333
00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:49,033
more than, whatever, the third or 40%
334
00:13:49,100 --> 00:13:51,567
of your occupancy of the apartment,
335
00:13:51,633 --> 00:13:52,767
and he shouldn't have?
336
00:13:52,834 --> 00:13:54,867
That's not going to happen, sir.
So forget it.
337
00:13:54,934 --> 00:13:57,834
♪
338
00:13:57,900 --> 00:14:02,066
{\an8}I've been here a long time.
If a landlord is owed $5,000...
339
00:14:02,133 --> 00:14:03,300
- {\an8}-
- Yes.
- He doesn't say,
340
00:14:03,367 --> 00:14:06,867
{\an8}"Well, tenant owes me $5,000,
but his apartment was clean.
341
00:14:06,934 --> 00:14:10,266
{\an8}I'm gonna give him back
his $2,000 security deposit."
342
00:14:10,333 --> 00:14:11,633
{\an8}That doesn't happen.
343
00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:13,066
♪
344
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,934
♪
345
00:14:23,433 --> 00:14:26,633
{\an8}[narrator] Mark Mikelonis
has accused his former roommate
346
00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:28,133
{\an8}Christopher Robertson
347
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,100
of overcharging
for rent and keeping his property.
348
00:14:31,166 --> 00:14:34,500
Christopher is
countersuing Mark for unpaid rent.
349
00:14:34,867 --> 00:14:37,266
Now, you gave him a security deposit.
350
00:14:37,333 --> 00:14:40,033
- That is part of your lawsuits.
- Correct.
351
00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:42,166
So I want you to forget
the overpayment of rent
352
00:14:42,233 --> 00:14:45,233
- because it is ridiculous.
- Okay.
353
00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:48,800
[Judy] So now let's go to the
security deposit part of your complaint.
354
00:14:48,867 --> 00:14:50,967
Did he give you a security deposit?
355
00:14:51,033 --> 00:14:52,000
He did, Your Honor.
356
00:14:52,066 --> 00:14:55,667
Now, he didn't pay rent
because of this moratorium...
357
00:14:55,734 --> 00:14:56,800
- [Christopher] Yes.
- on rent.
358
00:14:56,867 --> 00:15:00,567
{\an8}Did you get your security
deposit back from the landlord?
359
00:15:00,633 --> 00:15:02,033
- {\an8}-
- I did.
- [Judy] How much?
360
00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:05,767
I believe I got the total
amount for the entire apartment,
361
00:15:05,834 --> 00:15:07,667
which was approximately $2,000.
362
00:15:07,734 --> 00:15:10,300
[Judy]
And how much did Mr. Mikelonis
363
00:15:10,367 --> 00:15:12,200
give you as a security deposit?
364
00:15:12,266 --> 00:15:15,734
He gave me
$1,250 for the security deposit,
365
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,800
plus a 300 deposit pet deposit.
366
00:15:17,867 --> 00:15:20,066
[Judy]
Sometimes the pet deposit is refundable.
367
00:15:20,133 --> 00:15:22,133
Did you get the pet deposit back?
368
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,467
Uh, I don't recall specifically if
I got that back from the landlord.
369
00:15:26,533 --> 00:15:29,367
But you did get back
your entire security deposit,
370
00:15:29,433 --> 00:15:31,600
- which included his $1250?
- Yes.
371
00:15:31,667 --> 00:15:32,767
- [Judy] Okay.
- That's correct.
372
00:15:32,834 --> 00:15:34,967
Let's hold that in abeyance
for a moment because
373
00:15:35,033 --> 00:15:38,000
now I'm going to go to your counterclaim.
374
00:15:38,066 --> 00:15:40,166
- Sure.
- I think that's all I have to deal with.
375
00:15:40,233 --> 00:15:42,100
Oh, and "property taken
without permission."
376
00:15:42,166 --> 00:15:43,967
Did you get that property back
that was s--?
377
00:15:44,033 --> 00:15:45,900
- I did not.
- What property was it?
378
00:15:45,967 --> 00:15:48,400
{\an8}There was, um, a stone Buddha carving.
379
00:15:48,467 --> 00:15:50,967
{\an8}There was some dishes, some glasses.
380
00:15:51,033 --> 00:15:52,967
Oh, give me a break. Do you
have his stone Buddha carving?
381
00:15:53,033 --> 00:15:54,700
I have the stone Buddha carving.
382
00:15:54,767 --> 00:15:58,300
{\an8}I have a small statuette
of a rooster that is his
383
00:15:58,367 --> 00:16:00,800
- and a small metal...
- Wait.
384
00:16:00,867 --> 00:16:02,967
- serving spoon set.
- Would you pack those up?
385
00:16:03,033 --> 00:16:04,934
- Yes.
- Do you live close to each other?
386
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,367
I haven't been able to because of
our mutual, um, restraining orders.
387
00:16:08,433 --> 00:16:10,867
Fine. Do you know
where your local precinct is?
388
00:16:10,934 --> 00:16:12,533
- [Christopher] Yes.
- [Judy] Where is it located?
389
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,166
Uh, I believe that the closest one
would be downtown for me.
390
00:16:15,233 --> 00:16:16,200
Downtown Oakland.
391
00:16:16,266 --> 00:16:18,400
Okay. You'll find out
before you leave today.
392
00:16:18,467 --> 00:16:20,834
In five days,
drop it off at the local precinct.
393
00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:22,133
- Absolutely.
- Let him know when
394
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,934
and he could go
pick up his Buddha.
395
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,066
- Yes. I don't want that in my home.
- [Judy] Great.
396
00:16:26,133 --> 00:16:31,066
Terrific. Now, "money owed for
COVID debt" is your counterclaim.
397
00:16:31,133 --> 00:16:32,734
- {\an8}-
- Yes.
- [Judy] Which is what?
398
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,266
- {\an8}-
- Uh, it is a total of...
- [Judy] How much-- What--
399
00:16:35,333 --> 00:16:38,033
{\an8}$5535, I believe.
400
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:39,033
{\an8}[Judy] For what?
401
00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:42,266
{\an8}Um, that is the, um, unpaid rent.
402
00:16:42,333 --> 00:16:44,400
But you didn't pay his rent,
you just told me.
403
00:16:44,467 --> 00:16:47,066
Right. And so this is the
outstanding balance of the rent
404
00:16:47,133 --> 00:16:50,100
that he never paid that I'm
responsible for as the master tenant?
405
00:16:50,166 --> 00:16:53,133
Oh, no. You just told me that
you got your security deposit back.
406
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,100
If you got your
security deposit back, sir,
407
00:16:55,166 --> 00:16:57,166
that means that the landlord
is finished with you.
408
00:16:57,233 --> 00:16:59,200
Um, according to the law.
409
00:16:59,266 --> 00:17:00,367
[Judy]
Not according to the law.
410
00:17:00,433 --> 00:17:04,333
If you got your security deposit back,
the entire security deposit,
411
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,633
the landlord has written it off.
412
00:17:06,700 --> 00:17:09,300
Because otherwise, he would have
taken your security deposit
413
00:17:09,367 --> 00:17:11,667
if you owed him or her money.
414
00:17:11,734 --> 00:17:13,567
Do you understand what I'm saying?
It's very simple.
415
00:17:13,633 --> 00:17:15,000
- I understand what you're saying.
- It's very simple.
416
00:17:15,066 --> 00:17:16,800
- I--
- I wish I could explain that to them in--
417
00:17:16,867 --> 00:17:18,133
- in your--
- [Judy] Well--
418
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:19,700
[chuckles] in your manner.
419
00:17:19,767 --> 00:17:21,200
Well, I want to tell you something.
420
00:17:21,266 --> 00:17:22,467
I've been here a long time.
421
00:17:22,533 --> 00:17:25,500
If a landlord is owed $5,000.
422
00:17:25,567 --> 00:17:26,700
- [Christopher] Yes.
- He doesn't say,
423
00:17:26,767 --> 00:17:28,700
"Well, tenant owes me $5,000,
424
00:17:28,767 --> 00:17:30,367
but his apartment was clean.
425
00:17:30,433 --> 00:17:33,667
I'm gonna give him
back his $2,000 security deposit."
426
00:17:33,734 --> 00:17:35,767
- That doesn't happen.
- So, he--
427
00:17:35,834 --> 00:17:37,633
[Judy]
Only in the Land of Oz does that happen.
428
00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:38,633
[audience chuckles]
429
00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:40,033
- They might live there.
- [Judy] Not if--
430
00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:41,934
No, they might live there,
but I don't live there.
431
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:43,166
- [laughs]
- [Judy] Okay.
432
00:17:43,233 --> 00:17:46,266
You owe him $1,250 for security deposit.
433
00:17:46,333 --> 00:17:48,400
This case is over.
Your counterclaim's dismissed with--
434
00:17:48,467 --> 00:17:49,600
- Um--
- [Judy] We're done.
435
00:17:49,667 --> 00:17:50,700
- [bailiff] Court is adjourned.
- [Judy] Thank you very much.
436
00:17:50,767 --> 00:17:51,934
[Christopher]
I would just like to bring--
437
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:52,934
And goodbye!
438
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,166
{\an8}Well, I was a little upset.
439
00:17:54,233 --> 00:17:55,834
{\an8}He's being a drama queen.
440
00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:59,233
{\an8}The clause in the lease
was to prevent people from over--
441
00:17:59,300 --> 00:18:01,266
{\an8}like, basically taking advantage
of the fact that they've been
442
00:18:01,333 --> 00:18:05,567
{\an8}living in a place for a long time
and gouging rent for new tenants.
443
00:18:05,633 --> 00:18:07,567
{\an8}He said I was price gouging him because
444
00:18:07,633 --> 00:18:10,333
{\an8}it was enough to pay more rent than...
445
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,700
{\an8}he might have if
he had done some more research.
446
00:18:12,767 --> 00:18:14,200
{\an8}They were trying to make it equal.
447
00:18:14,266 --> 00:18:15,834
{\an8}And every place that I've lived in,
448
00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:18,133
{\an8}there was always
an equitable share of the rent.
449
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,266
{\an8}Like, no one was ever gouging anybody.
450
00:18:20,333 --> 00:18:23,934
{\an8}So I just I felt that, um,
I was unjustly charged.
451
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,767
{\an8}Well, I can't say it wasn't
very satisfying to hear the judge
452
00:18:26,834 --> 00:18:28,834
{\an8}call his claims ridiculous to his face.
453
00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:31,767
{\an8}Basically, he was leaving
the front door open,
454
00:18:31,834 --> 00:18:34,033
{\an8}making it so my dog could escape easily.
455
00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:36,300
{\an8}He was filling the house up with smoke.
456
00:18:36,367 --> 00:18:37,500
{\an8}We both burned sage.
457
00:18:37,567 --> 00:18:39,600
{\an8}He was basically trying to
get me riled up.
458
00:18:39,667 --> 00:18:41,100
{\an8}He wanted me to move.
459
00:18:41,166 --> 00:18:42,900
{\an8}While I am disappointed that
I won't be able to recover
460
00:18:42,967 --> 00:18:44,100
{\an8}some of his COVID debt...
461
00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:45,633
{\an8}Basically the moment that he was--
462
00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:47,467
{\an8}you know, it was inconvenient
for me to be there,
463
00:18:47,533 --> 00:18:49,934
{\an8}he tried to make my life miserable.
464
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,367
{\an8}I'm glad that I will never have to
see him again and this is done.
465
00:18:53,433 --> 00:18:55,367
{\an8}I'm not living with roommates ever again.
466
00:18:55,433 --> 00:18:57,166
{\an8}I've got my dog, and we're cool.
467
00:18:57,233 --> 00:18:59,266
{\an8}He was a nightmare,
and I never have to see him again.
468
00:19:00,467 --> 00:19:04,800
You know, far be it from me
to second guess another judge,
469
00:19:04,867 --> 00:19:07,233
but it would seem to me sort of outrageous
470
00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:10,734
unless there was
some sort of a physical altercation,
471
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,300
why anyone...
472
00:19:12,367 --> 00:19:14,633
Because he clearly
was excluded from his house.
473
00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:17,233
He left first, and he said,
you know, involuntarily,
474
00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:19,600
would anybody exclude...
475
00:19:19,667 --> 00:19:21,834
- The original tenant.
- The original tenant.
476
00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:23,367
When I read the papers,
I thought the same thing.
477
00:19:23,433 --> 00:19:25,467
I thought that was outrageous
that they would throw out
478
00:19:25,533 --> 00:19:27,667
the primary lease holder on a lease
479
00:19:27,734 --> 00:19:29,767
in favor of his sub-tenant,
480
00:19:29,834 --> 00:19:32,100
which may or may
not have been legal to begin with.
481
00:19:32,166 --> 00:19:34,967
You know, I can understand it if there was
something more serious...
482
00:19:35,033 --> 00:19:36,400
- Mm-hmm.
- [Judy] But harassment?
483
00:19:36,467 --> 00:19:37,734
I just don't understand it.
484
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,200
- But mine is not to wonder why.
- I didn't either.
485
00:19:40,266 --> 00:19:43,100
- [chuckles]
- Mine is but to do what I do.
486
00:19:43,166 --> 00:19:46,433
And I don't think that when
you come into a court
487
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:50,166
where you have at least
participated marginally,
488
00:19:50,233 --> 00:19:53,133
in a giveaway,
to then come in and say,
489
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:54,567
"You know what? This technical thing.
490
00:19:54,633 --> 00:19:56,667
He wasn't supposed to charge
me this much rent
491
00:19:56,734 --> 00:19:59,967
because I didn't occupy this much
of the apartment." Whatever.
492
00:20:00,033 --> 00:20:02,300
- Ridiculous. When you didn't pay rent...
- [Sarah] Exactly.
493
00:20:02,367 --> 00:20:03,567
for seven months anyway,
494
00:20:03,633 --> 00:20:05,467
it made my job a lot easier.
495
00:20:05,533 --> 00:20:07,000
♪
496
00:20:07,066 --> 00:20:08,433
[narrator] Want justice?
497
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:10,834
- {\an8}Go to JudyJustice.
- TV.
498
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:13,166
{\an8}♪