You borrowed this money from her.
The money wasn't a problem until I dumped her.
I didn't know that we were keeping tabs on things.
That's what people do.
She came to see me on my birthday but I bought her gifts.
I've been a judge for over 40 years.
You think I'm gonna listen to you buying her a hamburger?
This is Judy Justice.
Devonna Harvey is suing her ex-boyfriend, Ted Kelly, Jr.,
for unpaid loans and airfare.
Court, come to order. All rise.
Have a seat, please.
Hello, Judge. Case #2040, Harvey versus Kelly.
Thank you. Miss Harvey, according to what you wrote in your complaint,
- you've known Mr. Kelly since college? - Yes.
- And you dated in college. - Yes.
- That was more than 30 years ago. - Yes.
And according to Mr. Kelly, you broke up with him in college.
- Yes. - And what year was that?
Oh, gosh. That was...
Do you remember?
Ninety-two, I believe, Your Honor.
And then, somehow, you reconnected. I assume you both had lives
in between 1992 and 2022. When did you reconnect?
- In April of 2021. - How?
Well, he was looking for me, so...
He was looking for you?
He emailed my best friend, he emailed her business
and asked her, well, gave her his number and asked that I call him.
So far, correct?
Yes, Your Honor.
So, you were interested in seeing her again. In that 30 year period,
did either of you have other people in your lives, have children, marry...
- Yes. Yes. - You did.
Okay. How long were you married?
I was married for ten years.
- Have any kids? - Yes, two kids.
And you, sir?
Uh, eleven years.
- And one child, yes. - Any children?
Both divorced?
Yes.
Okay. That could've made it an interesting love story, but didn't happen.
Okay, so, you wanted to reconnect with her,
you got in touch with a friend of hers through a business number.
And you called him?
Yes, I did.
- And that was in April of 2021. - Yes.
Where did you live at the time?
Detroit, Michigan.
And you, sir?
Carlton, California.
When was the first time you actually saw each other?
April of 2021.
- You live in Michigan. - Yes.
But you have a child who lives in California.
- I do. - How old is that child?
- Twenty-one. - Male or female.
- Male. - And where does he live now?
With his dad.
When you come down to see him, where do you stay?
In the past, sometimes I would stay with his dad
and sometimes I would stay in a hotel.
So, when you visited him, you either stayed with his father,
- or your ex-husband. - Yes.
- Or stayed in a hotel. - Yes.
Depending upon the circumstance.
Most of the time did you stay at the house with his father
or most of the time in a hotel?
Most of the time, in the past, I stayed in the house with his father.
And this is his father's only child as well?
- We have two children together. - Two children.
Where's the other child?
She's in Chicago, Illinois.
How old is she?
Twenty-six.
So, you see her less frequently than you see your son.
I probably see them about the same.
- Do you go to visit her in Chicago? - Yes.
And you go to visit your son in California.
- Yes. - So, what I'm gathering happened,
is you saw each other for awhile.
You thought it was an exclusive relationship, you did not.
At first, yes, I did, Your Honor.
Then what happened?
The last time I saw her was in Detroit. And when I returned from Detroit,
the girl that I was seeing at the time had disappeared.
You mean, the girl you were seeing prior to seeing her.
Right, exactly. And I thought the relationship was over.
She went deep into Mexico and I hadn't heard from her.
She had to go for some family business.
And then, she resurfaced once I came back and...
Once you came back from California on your last trip?
Once I came back from Detroit from spending time with her.
To California.
And so, we started talking again. I didn't get in contact with her,
she was trying to contact me and...
So, you stopped answering her calls.
No, not really. I called her and I let her know that, you know,
the girl resurfaced and that I didn't think
it was gonna be able to work out between me and her.
And that's when the problem came along.
The problems with regard to money.
- Yes. - Okay.
So, this is what your lawsuit is about. So, you broke up with her,
and at that time, according to you, you had unpaid advances to him
for an airline ticket and car repairs and some small amount of money
for a new grandchild, that he had some baby items.
So, let's start with the plane ticket. When was the plane ticket?
The plane ticket was purchased in May. It was to go and see him for his birthday.
Okay. Was this the only time that there was an airfare issue,
who paid for the airfare? Because he would drive most of the time.
He drove one time, I flew. And this was the only time
that he said he would pay for the ticket. I paid the other times.
Okay, well, tell me about his discussion with you of paying for this ticket.
Sure. So, he wanted me to come for his birthday.
- When is your birthday? - June, Your Honor.
And I told him that I was looking for tickets.
He said I want you to come for my birthday.
- Yes. - No, tell me what he said.
He said...
Tell me what he said. No, don't look over there, look over here.
He said, "I'm gonna fly my boo-thing out."
Okay, and...
And later, I looked for tickets and he said, "Oh, I was gonna give you $500."
Okay. And you purchased the ticket. And that was in May of what year?
That was in May of 2021.
We agreed that I would put the ticket on my credit card.
And when you got to his home in California, did he give you the $500?
He did not give me the $500.
When did you ask him for it again?
I didn't ask him for it while I was there.
And then...
And then, when I was back home, he told me
that he was going to take care of it.
He said he was trying to get his money together to come to Detroit
and he was crunching numbers, and he...
No, I'm talking about the airline ticket.
Right. Then he said, "I need to give that money to you this week, right?"
And I told him I had made a payment on the credit card
and he could have more time. And so he said he would take care of it.
He said, "I'll take care of it when I'm there the first of August."
Did he come the first of August?
He came in August, yes.
Okay. And what happened in August?
He came in August, he was there. We did not have any discussion about money
until he told me that his account was compromised
and somebody owed him some money and didn't give him the money.
And so, that's when he asked for the second, or the other loan amount.
For the other amount of money.
- You mean, he was in Michigan, - Mm-hmm.
- when he asked for more money? - Yes.
Well, when he asked for any money. You had never given him money before.
- Correct. - Tell me about it.
So, he sent me a text message and he asked if I could go to the credit union
and take out a loan for him...
- I'd like to see that, please. - Sure.
If it was in a text message.
Thank you.
- Mr. Kelly... - Yes, Your Honor.
"Can you check with your credit union and see if you can get a personal loan
for a grand and I can make payments on it
'cause I don't even have my gas money to get out here."
And she responds,
"I can loan you a grand. Is that all you need?"
And you respond to her, "Well, the $500 I'm short would be perfect, if you can."
Fifteen hundred.
Fifteen hundred, excuse me. Fifteen hundred.
Yes, Your Honor.
Well, what do you think that meant?
"Hey, baby, you think you can make that loan an even $2,000?"
No, I'm saying, the money wasn't a problem until I dumped her.
I don't care if it was a problem or not, you said it was a loan.
Exactly.
Great.
Pay careful attention. If you want a dog that guarantees you practically,
a nice disposition, buy a golden doodle, not a wolf.
Devonna Harvey says her ex-boyfriend, Ted Kelly Jr.,
owes for an unpaid loan and airfare.
Well, what do you think that meant?
That she was gonna give me the money.
But the reason the car was having a problem
was because I drove it out there to see her.
No, that's not what this says at all.
- Well, a couple days later... - Ssh!
That's not what this says at all.
It says I'm in a hole, can you go and get money from the credit union.
Can you get a grand? And she was nice and said to you, "Is that all you need?"
And you said, well, as long as you're going,
I could actually use $1,500, that would be perfect.
Right. I didn't know that we were keeping tabs on things.
Because I've spent money on her and never asked for anything...
It's not a question of spending money, sir. Spending money on her is chivalrous.
She came to see me on my birthday but I bought her gifts.
And I took her to Mexico for four days.
I went to seven years of college and law school, I took the bar exam,
I've been a judge for over 40 years. You think I'm gonna listen to
you buying her a hamburger? That's not what this is about, sir.
- Or a present? - It wasn't a hamburger, ma'am.
That's what people do. You told me, sir,
that you were in an exclusive relationship
until your girlfriend from Mexico resurfaced. That's what you told me.
So, buying each other presents is not an issue.
Did you tell her...
Just like the plane tickets. I went to see her in college
and I didn't try to charge her for the plane tickets.
She came to see me and we never had a issue.
Are you talking about when you were in college?
No, I'm talking about the plane tickets. We never had a issue
with me having to pay a plane ticket for her.
I know that. I know that, but she said this one was different.
This one ticket, not all the others when you visited.
This one ticket, you said you wanted her to come for your birthday
and you said that you would pay for the ticket.
She wanted to come, Your Honor. It wasn't just I wanted...
She said you said to her, "I want you to come for my birthday.
I'll pay for the ticket."
Because she had the time and she could go at any time that she wanted to.
She was planning to come out here anyway 'cause her son was here.
Well, I understand. You tell me that now.
Did you ask her to come out for your birthday is my question.
Yes, probably so.
Okay. How much was the airline ticket?
Five hundred.
Show me.
Four forty-six, eighty.
With bags it was $500.
I don't care about the bags. Okay. Now, I want you to tell me
about these baby items. That's the last thing on your menu.
But we didn't finish with the other...
We finished with it.
But he asked me for an additional $500 after that $1,500.
Two days later. I have that here, too.
I'd like to see it, please.
On Friday, August 20th, you said, "hey, baby, I had a question.
Do you think you can make that loan an even $2,000.
'Cause I need to get a few things done on the car."
And she says, "Yes, but I can't get to the bank today.
I can hit the ATM on my way home."
"Okay, that's fine." What was that?
There was never nothing said about a time limit or nothing
until I got back.
"Hey, baby, you think you can make that loan an even $2,000?"
No, I'm saying, the money wasn't a problem until I dumped her.
I don't care if it was a problem or not, you said it was a loan.
- Exactly. - Great.
And when I told her I'd pay her back, she didn't hear from me
so then, now we're here.
I don't know what you're talking... That's a lot of mumbo jumbo gibberish.
Okay, $2,446.88. Now tell me about the baby items.
- So, he asked me through... - When?
- text message that was... - When?
In August... No, July 8th, I'm sorry.
So, this was before you loaned him the other money.
- Yeah. - Okay, so, in July...
He asked me, did I have Cash App. And I told him I did,
'cause I thought... And I gave him my Cash App handle
'cause I thought he was trying to pay me the airline ticket.
But he said, no, the problem was that he didn't have Cash App
and he was trying to get his son's baby's mother some money
and wanted to know if I could send it for him because I had Cash App.
How much money did he need for his son's girlfriend?
There were two occasions. One was $60 and one was $50.
Do you recall that, Mr. Kelly?
I don't recall her not getting the money for that.
I didn't do it because he wasn't in the area where I could give it to him.
And I didn't have Cash App and she sent it on the Cash App
but I gave her the cash for that.
And that was in July?
Yes, while I was still there.
He never gave me any cash.
I don't think so either, because then you borrowed all this money the next month.
He also asked for a Western Union.
Twenty-five, fifty-six. Just for my own curiosity, sir,
are you still with the girlfriend who disappeared to Mexico?
Yes.
You live together?
No.
Okay. Well, it wasn't the ending that, perhaps, you all envisioned.
But you borrowed this money from her, sir, and you have to return it.
Twenty-five, fifty-six, judgment for the Plaintiff.
- Thank you. - This court is adjourned.
Obviously, I'm happy.
Well, technically, yeah, it was a loan.
The judge saw through what he was trying to say.
I don't know what he was trying to say.
But I spent money on her and I never kept tabs on it.
Oh, my gosh, he just asked me for a lot of money.
I wasn't in love with her and somebody else came back from the past.
No, I just want my money. And I told him that, I just want my money.
So, I'm curious, judge, the ratio of cases that you've seen
of women loaning men money versus the other way around,
men loaning women, their girlfriends, money.
I think I would have to go with 80/20.
I would agree.
This woman has something that's reasonable.
- He, on the other hand, she was okay. - Mm-hmm.
Until his girlfriend from Mexico resurfaced
- and he broke up with her. - Mm-hmm.
I think he probably was hurt all the years from college that she broke up with him
- 'cause he talks about it in his answer. - Yeah.
But women really have to be smarter.
Invest it in yourself, would be my best advice for women.
Yeah, that's absolutely true. You invest in yourself.
Yeah.
Case #2045, VerBryck versus Buis. All parties, please, step forward.
Howard VerBryck is suing his former customers,
Angela and Jimmy Buis for loss of income and the cost of a wolf-dog.
Mr. VerBryck, what do you do for a living?
I'm an auto mechanic.
- Who do you live with? - Myself.
When did you get into breeding and selling wolf-dogs?
Approximately eight years ago.
- Why? - I found animals fascinating.
Why would any normal person want to own, with 219 breeds or more
in this country, in the world of dogs, why would you take a dog
that is in part, and you don't know what part, wild wolf?
Howard VerBryck, claims his former customers,
Angela and Jimmy Buis, owe for the cost of a wolf-dog.
Angela and Jimmy are countersuing for harassment.
This is your case. The Defendants purchased one of your puppies
- several years ago. - One, yes.
And a couple of years later, according to you,
- they were looking for a second dog. - Yes.
- Did they contact you? - Yes.
- By phone? - Uh, through messaging.
- Which you have. - Yes.
Okay. And I will take a look at it at an appropriate time.
That they were looking for a... I think they were looking for a male,
- they had had a female. - Correct.
And you were prepared to accommodate that. Did you give them a price for the dog?
- Yes. - What was that?
At the time, it was $800.
And after certain discussions with them, was that price ever modified?
- Yes, it was. - To what?
Angela thought the $800 was a little expensive and...
How much had they paid for the first dog?
- - - Five hundred. - Okay.
The reasoning being they helped me sell...
No, no, just... Years before, they paid $500.
You were asking $800 for this male.
It was $800 back then, also. Under the circumstances,
if they helped me sell animals, then I would give them a deal.
Did they do that for you the first time...
- Yes, ma'am. - So, the first time
that they bought a puppy from you they paid $500
and assisted you in finding owners for other puppies.
- Correct. - Is that correct?
- Yes. - The second time you asked for $800.
Yes.
Did you make the same deal with them?
- I did. - How many puppies did you have?
At the time, I had six.
- Did they come over and see the puppies? - No.
Isn't that usual, to come over and pick one, unless you only had one male?
Sometimes. I've sold other people animals throughout the United States
by pictures only and updated photographs.
On what date did you go and pick up your puppy?
He dropped the puppy off to us, I think it was on March 22nd.
How far does he live from you?
About 40 miles.
So, you could have easily gone to see the litter.
Yes, correct.
So, you chose for him to drop the puppy off.
Well, he kinda messaged us and, you know, we had a phone conversation
where he stated that he couldn't feed the puppies anymore.
No, that's not what I'm asking you. I know you have a script
that you want to tell me about because you have something in your head.
But that's not what I asked you. What I asked you was
you could have gone to look at the litter of puppies,
Yes, correct.
- and picked out which one you wanted. - Correct.
- You chose to have him deliver it to you. - Yes.
That was my question. He delivered to you, a male puppy.
How old was the puppy you delivered to them?
Approximately nine and a half weeks.
I don't know if that's an appropriate time for wolf-dog puppies,
but ten weeks is a reasonable time to separate puppies
from the litter and their mother.
I know that that's not what I went to law school for
but you acquire a certain amount of nonsense information
over the course of a lifetime. Anyway, did they pay you for that dog?
- No. - What was the arrangement?
According to Angela, I got three different amounts.
She was gonna give me $100 deposit and $100 a week,
$150 deposit, then $100 a week, and a $200 deposit and $100 a week.
- I got nothing. - At what purchase price?
She was thinking the $500 when I was asking the $800.
That's not what I said. Did you ultimately make an arrangement with her
for $500 if she helped you find other pet owners?
Yes, ma'am.
Okay, let's be direct. So, you agreed to make them the same deal
- with this dog as you made with the last. - Correct.
Which is, I'll give you, if you help find other potential prospects,
- for the other puppies. - Correct.
So, purchase price was $500. And they did find you other people for the puppies.
- One, yes. - Well, they found one.
It wasn't specified, they found one. And did you place that puppy?
Yes.
This is what your lawsuit is about.
You say that she didn't pay you any money,
and the people who you placed the other dog with
did not finish paying you.
- Correct. - They're not responsible for that person.
They're not responsible for that person unless you gave them the dog
- in order to collect the money. - Okay.
- - - Or did you drop the puppy off... - I dropped the puppy off at their house.
Then that's your problem. Okay. So then, what we're dealing is,
the $500 that you claim they owe you for the dog.
Well, plus, potential loss of income...
Oh, no. Don't be ridiculous.
Okay, $500. Let me hear your excuse.
I think that the dog has been abused, and I have video proving.
The male won't ever come around.
Just a second. And...
The male does not like males.
What he'll do is he will cower at the sight of any male.
He's very aggressive when he goes to take food from you.
He was ten and a half weeks old.
We've had him for eight months now and you still can't touch him.
But you got him and he was nine and a half weeks old.
And he's still the same.
You got him when he was nine and a half weeks old.
So, that's not a reason not to pay for him. You still have him.
He needs proper care and we don't feel like we should pay anything.
Not with what we have to deal with with the dog emotionally and everything else.
Well, unfortunately, the law does not agree with you.
You agreed to pay him $500 for a dog, you have the dog,
and you have to pay him the $500 for the dog.
That's it, it's an easy case. That was your contract.
You didn't make a contract with him for a dog that had a nice disposition...
There's no contract...
Pay careful attention. If you want a dog that guarantees you, practically,
a nice disposition, - buy a Golden- - Doodle, not a wolf.
- Buy a Golden- - Doodle, buy a Shih Tzu.
You want a big dog...?
- What's another big dog? - Golden Retriever.
Buy a Golden Retriever. But if you people are odd enough to think that
wolf-dogs make good pets, not knowing...
'Cause I did a little investigation into wolf-dogs,
Are wolf-dogs good pets? 'Cause I get my cases early and I said,
why would any normal person want to own, with two 219 breeds or more
in this country, in the world of dogs... Why would you take a dog
that is in part, and you don't know what part, wild wolf?
Why would you do that? If your animal is aggressive, go look at its history.
Because sometimes, they'll grow up to be friendly, nice dogs,
like the first one you had.
The first one I have is very well with our kids.
You know, this one, I'm going back to my wolf roots.
Well, so... Judgment for the Plaintiff in the amount of $500.
Your counterclaim's dismissed. We're done. Thank you.
This court is adjourned.
We, more or less, rescued this dog.
The dog had no issues before.
He cowers down to any sight of a male.
That's just a totally false statement.
It's to the point where he's gotta get a trainer.
I hope that it is taken care of, and if they don't want the animal,
I'd be glad to take it back and care for it.
We're gonna work with him. Yeah, we're not gonna let him go.
Just another example of people who, maybe, maybe not,
looked into the history of a dog, a wolf-dog.
- Mm-hmm. - And if you read about it...
I did a little, before the case.
Yeah, and it said that a wolf-dog is a mix between a wild dog
and a domesticated dog. And they list the names
of the kinds of dogs that they have been bred with
over the course of the years. But in that kind of situation,
you don't know how much wolf you're getting.
It's a risk.
You could be getting eight percent wolf, you could be getting fifty percent wolf.
You really don't know. I think that there are some jurisdictions
where they don't allow them to be sold as domesticated pets.
I think there are a few out there. I just think it's a gamble
and you have to be willing to assume the risk.
I think that we have totally covered wolf-dogs.
I think we have.
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