1
00:00:00,033 --> 00:00:01,600
You borrowed this money from her.

2
00:00:01,667 --> 00:00:03,533
The money wasn't a problem
until I dumped her.

3
00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:05,767
I didn't know that we were
keeping tabs on things.

4
00:00:05,834 --> 00:00:07,100
That's what people do.

5
00:00:07,166 --> 00:00:10,633
She came to see me on my birthday
but I bought her gifts.

6
00:00:10,700 --> 00:00:13,166
I've been a judge for over 40 years.

7
00:00:13,233 --> 00:00:16,233
You think I'm gonna listen to you
buying her a hamburger?

8
00:00:16,300 --> 00:00:18,700
<i>This is Judy Justice.</i>

9
00:00:35,633 --> 00:00:40,500
{\an8}<i>Devonna Harvey is suing
her ex-boyfriend, Ted Kelly, Jr.,</i>

10
00:00:40,567 --> 00:00:42,900
{\an8}<i>for unpaid loans and airfare.</i>

11
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,367
Court, come to order. All rise.

12
00:00:46,433 --> 00:00:47,467
Have a seat, please.

13
00:00:49,433 --> 00:00:52,233
Hello, Judge. Case #2040,
Harvey versus Kelly.

14
00:00:52,300 --> 00:00:56,033
{\an8}Thank you. Miss Harvey, according
to what you wrote in your complaint,

15
00:00:56,100 --> 00:00:59,433
{\an8}- you've known Mr. Kelly since college?
- Yes.

16
00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:01,400
- And you dated in college.
- Yes.

17
00:01:01,467 --> 00:01:03,800
- That was more than 30 years ago.
- Yes.

18
00:01:03,867 --> 00:01:07,000
And according to Mr. Kelly,
you broke up with him in college.

19
00:01:07,066 --> 00:01:09,667
- Yes.
- And what year was that?

20
00:01:09,734 --> 00:01:11,967
Oh, gosh. That was...

21
00:01:12,033 --> 00:01:13,033
Do you remember?

22
00:01:13,100 --> 00:01:14,767
{\an8}Ninety-two, I believe, Your Honor.

23
00:01:14,834 --> 00:01:18,800
{\an8}And then, somehow, you reconnected.
I assume you both had lives

24
00:01:18,867 --> 00:01:23,800
in between 1992 and 2022.
When did you reconnect?

25
00:01:23,867 --> 00:01:27,200
- In April of 2021.
- How?

26
00:01:27,266 --> 00:01:30,700
Well, he was looking for me, so...

27
00:01:30,767 --> 00:01:31,867
He was looking for you?

28
00:01:31,934 --> 00:01:35,700
He emailed my best friend,
he emailed her business

29
00:01:35,767 --> 00:01:39,967
and asked her, well, gave her his number
and asked that I call him.

30
00:01:40,033 --> 00:01:41,233
So far, correct?

31
00:01:41,300 --> 00:01:42,300
Yes, Your Honor.

32
00:01:42,367 --> 00:01:45,333
So, you were interested in seeing her
again. In that 30 year period,

33
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,567
did either of you have other people
in your lives, have children, marry...

34
00:01:49,633 --> 00:01:51,834
- Yes. Yes.
- You did.

35
00:01:51,900 --> 00:01:53,533
Okay. How long were you married?

36
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,066
I was married for ten years.

37
00:01:55,133 --> 00:01:57,200
- Have any kids?
- Yes, two kids.

38
00:01:57,266 --> 00:01:58,266
And you, sir?

39
00:01:58,333 --> 00:01:59,533
Uh, eleven years.

40
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,266
- And one child, yes.
- Any children?

41
00:02:01,333 --> 00:02:02,400
Both divorced?

42
00:02:02,467 --> 00:02:03,467
Yes.

43
00:02:03,533 --> 00:02:07,000
Okay. That could've made it an
interesting love story, but didn't happen.

44
00:02:07,066 --> 00:02:09,567
Okay, so, you wanted to
reconnect with her,

45
00:02:09,633 --> 00:02:12,867
you got in touch with a friend of hers
through a business number.

46
00:02:12,934 --> 00:02:14,133
And you called him?

47
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,200
Yes, I did.

48
00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:18,100
- And that was in April of 2021.
- Yes.

49
00:02:18,166 --> 00:02:19,667
Where did you live at the time?

50
00:02:19,734 --> 00:02:20,734
Detroit, Michigan.

51
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:21,800
And you, sir?

52
00:02:21,867 --> 00:02:23,166
Carlton, California.

53
00:02:23,233 --> 00:02:25,600
When was the first time
you actually saw each other?

54
00:02:25,667 --> 00:02:27,767
April of 2021.

55
00:02:27,834 --> 00:02:30,000
- You live in Michigan.
- Yes.

56
00:02:30,066 --> 00:02:32,000
But you have a child
who lives in California.

57
00:02:32,066 --> 00:02:33,700
- I do.
- How old is that child?

58
00:02:33,767 --> 00:02:35,367
- Twenty-one.
- Male or female.

59
00:02:35,433 --> 00:02:37,367
- Male.
- And where does he live now?

60
00:02:37,433 --> 00:02:38,433
With his dad.

61
00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:40,734
When you come down to see him,
where do you stay?

62
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,467
In the past, sometimes I would
stay with his dad

63
00:02:43,533 --> 00:02:45,333
and sometimes I would stay in a hotel.

64
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,100
So, when you visited him,
you either stayed with his father,

65
00:02:48,166 --> 00:02:49,867
{\an8}- or your ex-husband.
- Yes.

66
00:02:49,934 --> 00:02:51,700
{\an8}- Or stayed in a hotel.
- Yes.

67
00:02:51,767 --> 00:02:53,433
Depending upon the circumstance.

68
00:02:53,500 --> 00:02:56,500
Most of the time did you stay at the house
with his father

69
00:02:56,567 --> 00:02:58,333
or most of the time in a hotel?

70
00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,900
Most of the time, in the past,
I stayed in the house with his father.

71
00:03:02,967 --> 00:03:05,033
And this is his father's
only child as well?

72
00:03:05,100 --> 00:03:07,200
- We have two children together.
- Two children.

73
00:03:07,266 --> 00:03:08,500
Where's the other child?

74
00:03:08,567 --> 00:03:10,166
She's in Chicago, Illinois.

75
00:03:10,233 --> 00:03:11,367
How old is she?

76
00:03:11,433 --> 00:03:12,500
Twenty-six.

77
00:03:12,567 --> 00:03:15,900
So, you see her less frequently
than you see your son.

78
00:03:15,967 --> 00:03:18,233
I probably see them about the same.

79
00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:20,433
- Do you go to visit her in Chicago?
- Yes.

80
00:03:20,500 --> 00:03:22,200
And you go to visit
your son in California.

81
00:03:22,266 --> 00:03:25,300
- Yes.
- So, what I'm gathering happened,

82
00:03:25,367 --> 00:03:27,233
is you saw each other for awhile.

83
00:03:27,300 --> 00:03:30,133
You thought it was
an exclusive relationship, you did not.

84
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:31,734
At first, yes, I did, Your Honor.

85
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:32,800
Then what happened?

86
00:03:32,967 --> 00:03:37,467
{\an8}The last time I saw her was in Detroit.
And when I returned from Detroit,

87
00:03:37,533 --> 00:03:41,000
the girl that I was seeing
at the time had disappeared.

88
00:03:41,066 --> 00:03:43,100
You mean, the girl you were seeing
prior to seeing her.

89
00:03:43,166 --> 00:03:46,133
Right, exactly. And I thought
the relationship was over.

90
00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,667
She went deep into Mexico and
I hadn't heard from her.

91
00:03:49,734 --> 00:03:51,700
She had to go for some family business.

92
00:03:51,767 --> 00:03:54,700
And then, she resurfaced
once I came back and...

93
00:03:54,767 --> 00:03:58,166
Once you came back from California
on your last trip?

94
00:03:58,233 --> 00:04:01,433
Once I came back from Detroit
from spending time with her.

95
00:04:01,500 --> 00:04:02,500
To California.

96
00:04:02,567 --> 00:04:07,300
And so, we started talking again.
I didn't get in contact with her,

97
00:04:07,367 --> 00:04:09,300
she was trying to contact me and...

98
00:04:09,367 --> 00:04:11,166
So, you stopped answering her calls.

99
00:04:11,233 --> 00:04:15,200
No, not really. I called her and
I let her know that, you know,

100
00:04:15,266 --> 00:04:18,467
the girl resurfaced
and that I didn't think

101
00:04:18,533 --> 00:04:20,867
it was gonna be able to work out
between me and her.

102
00:04:20,934 --> 00:04:23,433
And that's when the problem came along.

103
00:04:23,500 --> 00:04:25,266
The problems with regard to money.

104
00:04:25,333 --> 00:04:26,767
- Yes.
- Okay.

105
00:04:26,834 --> 00:04:30,633
So, this is what your lawsuit is about.
So, you broke up with her,

106
00:04:30,700 --> 00:04:35,400
and at that time, according to you,
you had unpaid advances to him

107
00:04:35,467 --> 00:04:40,967
for an airline ticket and car repairs
and some small amount of money

108
00:04:41,033 --> 00:04:43,467
for a new grandchild,
that he had some baby items.

109
00:04:43,533 --> 00:04:46,266
So, let's start with the plane ticket.
When was the plane ticket?

110
00:04:46,333 --> 00:04:51,433
{\an8}The plane ticket was purchased in May.
It was to go and see him for his birthday.

111
00:04:51,500 --> 00:04:55,567
Okay. Was this the only time that
there was an airfare issue,

112
00:04:55,633 --> 00:04:58,667
who paid for the airfare? Because
he would drive most of the time.

113
00:04:58,734 --> 00:05:02,467
He drove one time, I flew.
And this was the only time

114
00:05:02,533 --> 00:05:05,967
that he said he would pay for the ticket.
I paid the other times.

115
00:05:06,033 --> 00:05:10,400
Okay, well, tell me about his discussion
with you of paying for this ticket.

116
00:05:10,467 --> 00:05:14,066
Sure. So, he wanted me
to come for his birthday.

117
00:05:14,133 --> 00:05:16,133
- When is your birthday?
- June, Your Honor.

118
00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:20,033
And I told him
that I was looking for tickets.

119
00:05:20,100 --> 00:05:22,133
He said I want you
to come for my birthday.

120
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:23,834
- Yes.
- No, tell me what he said.

121
00:05:23,900 --> 00:05:25,600
He said...

122
00:05:25,667 --> 00:05:28,333
Tell me what he said.
No, don't look over there, look over here.

123
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,467
He said, "I'm gonna fly my boo-thing out."

124
00:05:30,533 --> 00:05:32,734
Okay, and...

125
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:38,767
{\an8}And later, I looked for tickets and he
said, "Oh, I was gonna give you $500."

126
00:05:38,834 --> 00:05:43,400
Okay. And you purchased the ticket.
And that was in May of what year?

127
00:05:43,467 --> 00:05:45,633
That was in May of 2021.

128
00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:48,367
We agreed that I would
put the ticket on my credit card.

129
00:05:48,433 --> 00:05:53,734
And when you got to his home in
California, did he give you the $500?

130
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,800
He did not give me the $500.

131
00:05:55,867 --> 00:05:58,166
When did you ask him for it again?

132
00:05:58,233 --> 00:06:00,834
I didn't ask him for it while I was there.

133
00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:01,900
And then...

134
00:06:01,967 --> 00:06:05,133
{\an8}And then, when I was back home,
he told me

135
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,567
{\an8}that he was going to take care of it.

136
00:06:07,633 --> 00:06:11,934
He said he was trying to get
his money together to come to Detroit

137
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,700
and he was crunching numbers, and he...

138
00:06:14,767 --> 00:06:16,266
No, I'm talking about the airline ticket.

139
00:06:16,333 --> 00:06:20,500
Right. Then he said, "I need to give
that money to you this week, right?"

140
00:06:20,567 --> 00:06:23,600
And I told him I had
made a payment on the credit card

141
00:06:23,667 --> 00:06:27,400
and he could have more time.
And so he said he would take care of it.

142
00:06:27,467 --> 00:06:30,533
He said, "I'll take care of it
when I'm there the first of August."

143
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,300
Did he come the first of August?

144
00:06:32,367 --> 00:06:33,767
He came in August, yes.

145
00:06:33,834 --> 00:06:35,400
Okay. And what happened in August?

146
00:06:35,467 --> 00:06:39,934
He came in August, he was there. We
did not have any discussion about money

147
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,333
{\an8}until he told me that
his account was compromised

148
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,333
{\an8}and somebody owed him some
money and didn't give him the money.

149
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:53,166
And so, that's when he asked for
the second, or the other loan amount.

150
00:06:53,233 --> 00:06:54,900
For the other amount of money.

151
00:06:54,967 --> 00:06:57,533
- You mean, he was in Michigan,
- Mm-hmm.

152
00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,867
- when he asked for more money?
- Yes.

153
00:06:59,934 --> 00:07:03,600
Well, when he asked for any money.
You had never given him money before.

154
00:07:03,667 --> 00:07:05,333
- Correct.
- Tell me about it.

155
00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:10,367
{\an8}So, he sent me a text message and
he asked if I could go to the credit union

156
00:07:10,433 --> 00:07:11,834
{\an8}and take out a loan for him...

157
00:07:11,900 --> 00:07:14,000
{\an8}- I'd like to see that, please.
- Sure.

158
00:07:14,066 --> 00:07:15,600
If it was in a text message.

159
00:07:21,066 --> 00:07:22,066
Thank you.

160
00:07:23,166 --> 00:07:24,900
- Mr. Kelly...
- Yes, Your Honor.

161
00:07:24,967 --> 00:07:28,200
"Can you check with your credit union and
see if you can get a personal loan

162
00:07:28,266 --> 00:07:31,333
for a grand and I can make payments on it

163
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,867
'cause I don't even have
my gas money to get out here."

164
00:07:34,934 --> 00:07:36,166
And she responds,

165
00:07:36,233 --> 00:07:39,934
"I can loan you a grand.
Is that all you need?"

166
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:45,467
And you respond to her, "Well, the $500
I'm short would be perfect, if you can."

167
00:07:45,533 --> 00:07:46,600
Fifteen hundred.

168
00:07:46,667 --> 00:07:48,867
Fifteen hundred, excuse me.
Fifteen hundred.

169
00:07:48,934 --> 00:07:49,934
Yes, Your Honor.

170
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,700
Well, what do you think that meant?

171
00:07:54,700 --> 00:07:58,500
"Hey, baby, you think you can
make that loan an even $2,000?"

172
00:07:58,567 --> 00:08:01,533
No, I'm saying, the money
wasn't a problem until I dumped her.

173
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,200
I don't care if it was a problem or not,
you said it was a loan.

174
00:08:04,266 --> 00:08:05,266
Exactly.

175
00:08:05,333 --> 00:08:07,200
Great.

176
00:08:07,266 --> 00:08:11,834
Pay careful attention. If you want a dog
that guarantees you practically,

177
00:08:11,900 --> 00:08:16,200
a nice disposition,
buy a golden doodle, not a wolf.

178
00:08:27,266 --> 00:08:31,633
{\an8}<i>Devonna Harvey says
her ex-boyfriend, Ted Kelly Jr.,</i>

179
00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:34,867
{\an8}<i>owes for an unpaid loan and airfare.</i>

180
00:08:34,934 --> 00:08:36,600
Well, what do you think that meant?

181
00:08:36,667 --> 00:08:38,133
That she was gonna give me the money.

182
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,000
But the reason the car
was having a problem

183
00:08:41,066 --> 00:08:42,800
was because I drove it
out there to see her.

184
00:08:42,867 --> 00:08:44,767
No, that's not what this says at all.

185
00:08:44,834 --> 00:08:46,667
- Well, a couple days later...
- Ssh!

186
00:08:46,734 --> 00:08:48,633
That's not what this says at all.

187
00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:52,734
It says I'm in a hole, can you go and
get money from the credit union.

188
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,166
Can you get a grand? And she was nice
and said to you, "Is that all you need?"

189
00:08:57,233 --> 00:08:59,100
And you said, well,
as long as you're going,

190
00:08:59,166 --> 00:09:01,367
I could actually use $1,500,
that would be perfect.

191
00:09:01,433 --> 00:09:04,300
Right. I didn't know that we were
keeping tabs on things.

192
00:09:04,367 --> 00:09:07,300
Because I've spent money on her
and never asked for anything...

193
00:09:07,367 --> 00:09:12,033
It's not a question of spending money,
sir. Spending money on her is chivalrous.

194
00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:16,233
She came to see me on my birthday
but I bought her gifts.

195
00:09:16,300 --> 00:09:18,266
And I took her to Mexico for four days.

196
00:09:18,333 --> 00:09:22,834
I went to seven years of college and
law school, I took the bar exam,

197
00:09:22,900 --> 00:09:27,300
I've been a judge for over 40 years.
You think I'm gonna listen to

198
00:09:27,367 --> 00:09:30,100
you buying her a hamburger?
That's not what this is about, sir.

199
00:09:30,166 --> 00:09:32,133
- Or a present?
- It wasn't a hamburger, ma'am.

200
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,600
That's what people do.
You told me, sir,

201
00:09:35,667 --> 00:09:37,700
that you were in an exclusive relationship

202
00:09:37,767 --> 00:09:41,700
{\an8}until your girlfriend from Mexico
resurfaced. That's what you told me.

203
00:09:41,767 --> 00:09:44,367
So, buying each other
presents is not an issue.

204
00:09:44,433 --> 00:09:45,633
Did you tell her...

205
00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:48,367
Just like the plane tickets.
I went to see her in college

206
00:09:48,433 --> 00:09:50,667
and I didn't try to charge her
for the plane tickets.

207
00:09:50,734 --> 00:09:52,834
She came to see me and
we never had a issue.

208
00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:55,467
Are you talking about
when you were in college?

209
00:09:55,533 --> 00:09:58,166
No, I'm talking about the plane tickets.
We never had a issue

210
00:09:58,233 --> 00:10:00,800
with me having to pay
a plane ticket for her.

211
00:10:00,867 --> 00:10:05,400
I know that. I know that,
but she said this one was different.

212
00:10:05,467 --> 00:10:09,066
This one ticket, not all the others
when you visited.

213
00:10:09,133 --> 00:10:12,600
This one ticket, you said you wanted her
to come for your birthday

214
00:10:12,667 --> 00:10:14,734
and you said that you would
pay for the ticket.

215
00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,200
She wanted to come, Your Honor.
It wasn't just I wanted...

216
00:10:17,266 --> 00:10:21,400
She said you said to her,
"I want you to come for my birthday.

217
00:10:21,467 --> 00:10:22,834
I'll pay for the ticket."

218
00:10:22,900 --> 00:10:26,066
Because she had the time and she
could go at any time that she wanted to.

219
00:10:26,133 --> 00:10:28,967
She was planning to come out here anyway
'cause her son was here.

220
00:10:29,033 --> 00:10:30,867
Well, I understand. You tell me that now.

221
00:10:30,934 --> 00:10:34,633
Did you ask her to come out
for your birthday is my question.

222
00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:35,967
Yes, probably so.

223
00:10:36,033 --> 00:10:38,033
Okay. How much was the airline ticket?

224
00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:39,100
Five hundred.

225
00:10:39,166 --> 00:10:40,166
Show me.

226
00:10:50,700 --> 00:10:52,667
Four forty-six, eighty.

227
00:10:52,734 --> 00:10:54,767
With bags it was $500.

228
00:10:54,834 --> 00:10:57,700
I don't care about the bags.
Okay. Now, I want you to tell me

229
00:10:57,767 --> 00:11:00,867
about these baby items.
That's the last thing on your menu.

230
00:11:00,934 --> 00:11:02,700
But we didn't finish with the other...

231
00:11:02,767 --> 00:11:04,200
We finished with it.

232
00:11:04,266 --> 00:11:08,133
But he asked me for an additional $500
after that $1,500.

233
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,633
Two days later. I have that here, too.

234
00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:12,633
I'd like to see it, please.

235
00:11:19,967 --> 00:11:23,033
On Friday, August 20th, you said,
"hey, baby, I had a question.

236
00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:25,800
Do you think you can make
that loan an even $2,000.

237
00:11:25,867 --> 00:11:28,734
'Cause I need to get
a few things done on the car."

238
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,100
And she says, "Yes, but I
can't get to the bank today.

239
00:11:31,166 --> 00:11:33,900
I can hit the ATM on my way home."

240
00:11:33,967 --> 00:11:35,967
"Okay, that's fine."
What was that?

241
00:11:36,033 --> 00:11:39,667
There was never nothing said
about a time limit or nothing

242
00:11:39,734 --> 00:11:40,734
until I got back.

243
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,333
{\an8}"Hey, baby, you think you can
make that loan an even $2,000?"

244
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,333
{\an8}No, I'm saying, the money
wasn't a problem until I dumped her.

245
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,233
{\an8}I don't care if it was a problem or not,
you said it was a loan.

246
00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:52,033
- Exactly.
- Great.

247
00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:55,166
And when I told her I'd pay her back,
she didn't hear from me

248
00:11:55,233 --> 00:11:56,667
so then, now we're here.

249
00:11:56,734 --> 00:11:59,667
I don't know what you're talking...
That's a lot of mumbo jumbo gibberish.

250
00:11:59,734 --> 00:12:03,900
Okay, $2,446.88.
Now tell me about the baby items.

251
00:12:03,967 --> 00:12:06,266
- So, he asked me through...
- When?

252
00:12:06,333 --> 00:12:08,734
- text message that was...
- When?

253
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,900
In August... No, July 8th, I'm sorry.

254
00:12:12,967 --> 00:12:15,900
So, this was before you
loaned him the other money.

255
00:12:15,967 --> 00:12:17,934
- Yeah.
- Okay, so, in July...

256
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,367
He asked me, did I have Cash App.
And I told him I did,

257
00:12:22,433 --> 00:12:24,700
'cause I thought... And I gave him
my Cash App handle

258
00:12:24,767 --> 00:12:27,200
'cause I thought he was trying
to pay me the airline ticket.

259
00:12:27,266 --> 00:12:30,467
But he said, no, the problem was
that he didn't have Cash App

260
00:12:30,533 --> 00:12:34,867
and he was trying to get his son's
baby's mother some money

261
00:12:34,934 --> 00:12:38,066
and wanted to know if I could send it
for him because I had Cash App.

262
00:12:38,133 --> 00:12:40,867
How much money
did he need for his son's girlfriend?

263
00:12:40,934 --> 00:12:45,300
There were two occasions.
One was $60 and one was $50.

264
00:12:45,367 --> 00:12:46,800
Do you recall that, Mr. Kelly?

265
00:12:46,867 --> 00:12:49,533
I don't recall her
not getting the money for that.

266
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,734
I didn't do it because he wasn't in
the area where I could give it to him.

267
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,367
And I didn't have Cash App
and she sent it on the Cash App

268
00:12:56,433 --> 00:12:58,000
but I gave her the cash for that.

269
00:12:58,066 --> 00:12:59,300
And that was in July?

270
00:12:59,367 --> 00:13:00,667
Yes, while I was still there.

271
00:13:00,734 --> 00:13:02,233
He never gave me any cash.

272
00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:05,633
I don't think so either, because then you
borrowed all this money the next month.

273
00:13:05,700 --> 00:13:07,900
He also asked for a Western Union.

274
00:13:07,967 --> 00:13:11,533
Twenty-five, fifty-six.
Just for my own curiosity, sir,

275
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,834
are you still with the girlfriend
who disappeared to Mexico?

276
00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:15,900
Yes.

277
00:13:15,967 --> 00:13:17,100
You live together?

278
00:13:17,166 --> 00:13:18,166
No.

279
00:13:18,233 --> 00:13:22,533
Okay. Well, it wasn't the ending that,
perhaps, you all envisioned.

280
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,066
But you borrowed this money from her, sir,
and you have to return it.

281
00:13:26,133 --> 00:13:28,767
Twenty-five, fifty-six,
judgment for the Plaintiff.

282
00:13:28,834 --> 00:13:31,734
- Thank you.
- This court is adjourned.

283
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,200
Obviously, I'm happy.

284
00:13:33,266 --> 00:13:34,934
Well, technically, yeah, it was a loan.

285
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,266
The judge saw through
what he was trying to say.

286
00:13:37,333 --> 00:13:39,033
I don't know what he was trying to say.

287
00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:42,133
But I spent money on her
and I never kept tabs on it.

288
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,233
Oh, my gosh, he just asked me
for a lot of money.

289
00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:47,900
I wasn't in love with her and
somebody else came back from the past.

290
00:13:47,967 --> 00:13:50,800
No, I just want my money.
And I told him that, I just want my money.

291
00:13:51,934 --> 00:13:55,300
So, I'm curious, judge,
the ratio of cases that you've seen

292
00:13:55,367 --> 00:14:00,100
of women loaning men money
versus the other way around,

293
00:14:00,166 --> 00:14:03,033
men loaning women,
their girlfriends, money.

294
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:06,133
I think I would have to go with 80/20.

295
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,200
I would agree.

296
00:14:07,266 --> 00:14:08,633
This woman has something
that's reasonable.

297
00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:11,533
- He, on the other hand, she was okay.
- Mm-hmm.

298
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,533
Until his girlfriend
from Mexico resurfaced

299
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,667
- and he broke up with her.
- Mm-hmm.

300
00:14:16,734 --> 00:14:20,700
I think he probably was hurt all the years
from college that she broke up with him

301
00:14:20,767 --> 00:14:22,600
- 'cause he talks about it in his answer.
- Yeah.

302
00:14:22,667 --> 00:14:24,767
But women really have to be smarter.

303
00:14:24,834 --> 00:14:27,567
Invest it in yourself,
would be my best advice for women.

304
00:14:27,633 --> 00:14:30,066
Yeah, that's absolutely true.
You invest in yourself.

305
00:14:30,133 --> 00:14:31,133
Yeah.

306
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,467
Case #2045, VerBryck versus Buis.
All parties, please, step forward.

307
00:14:36,233 --> 00:14:39,767
{\an8}<i>Howard VerBryck is suing
his former customers,</i>

308
00:14:39,834 --> 00:14:45,266
{\an8}<i>Angela and Jimmy Buis for loss of income
and the cost of a wolf-dog.</i>

309
00:14:45,333 --> 00:14:47,567
Mr. VerBryck,
what do you do for a living?

310
00:14:47,633 --> 00:14:48,800
I'm an auto mechanic.

311
00:14:48,867 --> 00:14:50,333
- Who do you live with?
- Myself.

312
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,433
When did you get into
breeding and selling wolf-dogs?

313
00:14:54,500 --> 00:14:55,900
Approximately eight years ago.

314
00:14:55,967 --> 00:14:58,400
- Why?
- I found animals fascinating.

315
00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:07,467
Why would any normal person want to own,
with 219 breeds or more

316
00:15:07,533 --> 00:15:11,834
in this country, in the world of dogs,
why would you take a dog

317
00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:16,600
that is in part,
and you don't know what part, wild wolf?

318
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,266
{\an8}<i>Howard VerBryck, claims
his former customers,</i>

319
00:15:32,333 --> 00:15:36,100
{\an8}<i>Angela and Jimmy Buis, owe
for the cost of a wolf-dog.</i>

320
00:15:36,166 --> 00:15:40,166
<i>Angela and Jimmy
are countersuing for harassment.</i>

321
00:15:40,233 --> 00:15:44,233
This is your case. The Defendants
purchased one of your puppies

322
00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:46,433
- several years ago.
- One, yes.

323
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:49,233
And a couple of years later,
according to you,

324
00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:51,934
- they were looking for a second dog.
- Yes.

325
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,100
- Did they contact you?
- Yes.

326
00:15:54,166 --> 00:15:56,734
- By phone?
- Uh, through messaging.

327
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,333
- Which you have.
- Yes.

328
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,667
Okay. And I will take a look at it
at an appropriate time.

329
00:16:01,734 --> 00:16:05,166
That they were looking for a...
I think they were looking for a male,

330
00:16:05,233 --> 00:16:06,867
- they had had a female.
- Correct.

331
00:16:06,934 --> 00:16:10,633
And you were prepared to accommodate that.
Did you give them a price for the dog?

332
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:11,767
- Yes.
- What was that?

333
00:16:11,834 --> 00:16:13,667
At the time, it was $800.

334
00:16:13,734 --> 00:16:17,433
And after certain discussions with them,
was that price ever modified?

335
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:18,967
- Yes, it was.
- To what?

336
00:16:19,033 --> 00:16:23,400
{\an8}Angela thought the $800 was
a little expensive and...

337
00:16:23,467 --> 00:16:25,633
How much had they paid for the first dog?

338
00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:27,200
- {\an8}-
- Five hundred.
- Okay.

339
00:16:27,266 --> 00:16:30,000
The reasoning being they helped me sell...

340
00:16:30,066 --> 00:16:33,700
No, no, just...
Years before, they paid $500.

341
00:16:33,767 --> 00:16:36,333
You were asking $800 for this male.

342
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,233
It was $800 back then, also.
Under the circumstances,

343
00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:43,800
if they helped me sell animals,
then I would give them a deal.

344
00:16:43,867 --> 00:16:46,000
Did they do that for you the first time...

345
00:16:46,066 --> 00:16:48,600
- Yes, ma'am.
- So, the first time

346
00:16:48,667 --> 00:16:51,700
that they bought a puppy from you
they paid $500

347
00:16:51,767 --> 00:16:55,500
and assisted you in
finding owners for other puppies.

348
00:16:55,567 --> 00:16:57,033
- Correct.
- Is that correct?

349
00:16:57,100 --> 00:17:00,333
- Yes.
- The second time you asked for $800.

350
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:01,400
Yes.

351
00:17:01,467 --> 00:17:03,033
Did you make the same deal with them?

352
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:05,166
- I did.
- How many puppies did you have?

353
00:17:05,233 --> 00:17:06,867
At the time, I had six.

354
00:17:06,934 --> 00:17:09,800
- Did they come over and see the puppies?
- No.

355
00:17:09,867 --> 00:17:14,166
Isn't that usual, to come over and
pick one, unless you only had one male?

356
00:17:14,233 --> 00:17:18,200
Sometimes. I've sold other people animals
throughout the United States

357
00:17:18,266 --> 00:17:20,867
by pictures only and
updated photographs.

358
00:17:20,934 --> 00:17:23,867
{\an8}On what date did you go and
pick up your puppy?

359
00:17:23,934 --> 00:17:29,667
{\an8}He dropped the puppy off to us,
I think it was on March 22nd.

360
00:17:29,734 --> 00:17:31,400
How far does he live from you?

361
00:17:31,467 --> 00:17:32,500
About 40 miles.

362
00:17:32,567 --> 00:17:34,900
So, you could have
easily gone to see the litter.

363
00:17:34,967 --> 00:17:36,200
Yes, correct.

364
00:17:36,266 --> 00:17:38,834
So, you chose for him
to drop the puppy off.

365
00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:43,433
Well, he kinda messaged us and,
you know, we had a phone conversation

366
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,800
where he stated that he
couldn't feed the puppies anymore.

367
00:17:45,867 --> 00:17:48,500
No, that's not what I'm asking you.
I know you have a script

368
00:17:48,567 --> 00:17:51,934
that you want to tell me about
because you have something in your head.

369
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,633
But that's not what I asked you.
What I asked you was

370
00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:57,467
you could have gone
to look at the litter of puppies,

371
00:17:57,533 --> 00:17:58,533
Yes, correct.

372
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,000
- and picked out which one you wanted.
- Correct.

373
00:18:01,066 --> 00:18:04,233
- You chose to have him deliver it to you.
- Yes.

374
00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:07,533
That was my question.
He delivered to you, a male puppy.

375
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,567
{\an8}How old was the puppy
you delivered to them?

376
00:18:09,633 --> 00:18:11,467
{\an8}Approximately nine and a half weeks.

377
00:18:11,533 --> 00:18:14,767
{\an8}I don't know if that's an appropriate time
for wolf-dog puppies,

378
00:18:14,834 --> 00:18:18,767
but ten weeks is a reasonable
time to separate puppies

379
00:18:18,834 --> 00:18:20,834
from the litter and their mother.

380
00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:23,333
I know that that's not what
I went to law school for

381
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,300
but you acquire a certain amount
of nonsense information

382
00:18:26,367 --> 00:18:29,800
over the course of a lifetime.
Anyway, did they pay you for that dog?

383
00:18:29,867 --> 00:18:31,800
- No.
- What was the arrangement?

384
00:18:31,867 --> 00:18:34,066
According to Angela,
I got three different amounts.

385
00:18:34,133 --> 00:18:37,500
She was gonna give me $100 deposit
and $100 a week,

386
00:18:37,567 --> 00:18:42,333
$150 deposit, then $100 a week,
and a $200 deposit and $100 a week.

387
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,967
- I got nothing.
- At what purchase price?

388
00:18:45,033 --> 00:18:48,767
She was thinking the $500
when I was asking the $800.

389
00:18:48,834 --> 00:18:52,000
That's not what I said. Did you ultimately
make an arrangement with her

390
00:18:52,066 --> 00:18:54,633
for $500 if she helped you
find other pet owners?

391
00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:55,700
Yes, ma'am.

392
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,300
Okay, let's be direct.
So, you agreed to make them the same deal

393
00:18:59,367 --> 00:19:01,533
- with this dog as you made with the last.
- Correct.

394
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,800
Which is, I'll give you, if you help find
other potential prospects,

395
00:19:06,867 --> 00:19:08,667
- for the other puppies.
- Correct.

396
00:19:08,734 --> 00:19:13,066
So, purchase price was $500. And they did
find you other people for the puppies.

397
00:19:13,133 --> 00:19:14,867
- One, yes.
- Well, they found one.

398
00:19:14,934 --> 00:19:18,233
It wasn't specified, they found one.
And did you place that puppy?

399
00:19:18,300 --> 00:19:19,300
Yes.

400
00:19:19,367 --> 00:19:20,900
This is what your lawsuit is about.

401
00:19:20,967 --> 00:19:23,867
You say that she didn't
pay you any money,

402
00:19:23,934 --> 00:19:27,166
and the people who you
placed the other dog with

403
00:19:27,233 --> 00:19:29,000
did not finish paying you.

404
00:19:29,066 --> 00:19:32,033
- Correct.
- They're not responsible for that person.

405
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:35,800
They're not responsible for that person
unless you gave them the dog

406
00:19:35,867 --> 00:19:37,967
{\an8}- in order to collect the money.
- Okay.

407
00:19:38,033 --> 00:19:40,700
- {\an8}-
- Or did you drop the puppy off...
- I dropped the puppy off at their house.

408
00:19:40,767 --> 00:19:44,400
{\an8}Then that's your problem. Okay.
So then, what we're dealing is,

409
00:19:44,467 --> 00:19:48,667
the $500 that you claim
they owe you for the dog.

410
00:19:48,734 --> 00:19:51,033
Well, plus, potential loss of income...

411
00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:53,900
Oh, no. Don't be ridiculous.

412
00:19:53,967 --> 00:19:57,266
{\an8}Okay, $500.
Let me hear your excuse.

413
00:19:57,333 --> 00:20:01,767
{\an8}I think that the dog has been abused,
and I have video proving.

414
00:20:01,834 --> 00:20:03,533
The male won't ever come around.

415
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:04,967
Just a second. And...

416
00:20:05,033 --> 00:20:07,533
The male does not like males.

417
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,734
What he'll do is he will cower
at the sight of any male.

418
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,300
He's very aggressive when he
goes to take food from you.

419
00:20:13,367 --> 00:20:14,900
He was ten and a half weeks old.

420
00:20:14,967 --> 00:20:17,700
We've had him for eight months now
and you still can't touch him.

421
00:20:17,767 --> 00:20:20,667
But you got him and he was
nine and a half weeks old.

422
00:20:20,734 --> 00:20:22,000
And he's still the same.

423
00:20:22,066 --> 00:20:24,500
You got him when
he was nine and a half weeks old.

424
00:20:24,567 --> 00:20:27,767
So, that's not a reason
not to pay for him. You still have him.

425
00:20:27,834 --> 00:20:32,333
He needs proper care and
we don't feel like we should pay anything.

426
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,667
Not with what we have to deal with with
the dog emotionally and everything else.

427
00:20:36,734 --> 00:20:39,000
Well, unfortunately, the law
does not agree with you.

428
00:20:39,066 --> 00:20:42,500
You agreed to pay him $500 for a dog,
you have the dog,

429
00:20:42,567 --> 00:20:45,066
and you have to pay him
the $500 for the dog.

430
00:20:45,133 --> 00:20:47,633
That's it, it's an easy case.
That was your contract.

431
00:20:47,700 --> 00:20:51,400
You didn't make a contract with him
for a dog that had a nice disposition...

432
00:20:51,467 --> 00:20:52,500
There's no contract...

433
00:20:52,567 --> 00:20:57,100
Pay careful attention. If you want a dog
that guarantees you, practically,

434
00:20:57,166 --> 00:21:01,467
a nice disposition,
- buy a Golden-
- Doodle, not a wolf.

435
00:21:01,533 --> 00:21:05,166
- Buy a Golden-
- Doodle, buy a Shih Tzu.

436
00:21:05,233 --> 00:21:06,934
You want a big dog...?

437
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,867
- What's another big dog?
- Golden Retriever.

438
00:21:08,934 --> 00:21:13,900
Buy a Golden Retriever. But if you
people are odd enough to think that

439
00:21:13,967 --> 00:21:17,700
wolf-dogs make good pets, not knowing...

440
00:21:17,767 --> 00:21:21,033
'Cause I did a little investigation
into wolf-dogs,

441
00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:24,967
Are wolf-dogs good pets?
'Cause I get my cases early and I said,

442
00:21:25,033 --> 00:21:30,633
why would any normal person want to own,
with two 219 breeds or more

443
00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:34,934
in this country, in the world of dogs...
Why would you take a dog

444
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,667
that is in part, and you
don't know what part, wild wolf?

445
00:21:39,734 --> 00:21:43,567
Why would you do that? If your animal
is aggressive, go look at its history.

446
00:21:43,633 --> 00:21:46,700
Because sometimes, they'll grow up
to be friendly, nice dogs,

447
00:21:46,767 --> 00:21:47,967
like the first one you had.

448
00:21:48,033 --> 00:21:50,066
The first one I have
is very well with our kids.

449
00:21:50,133 --> 00:21:53,633
You know, this one,
I'm going back to my wolf roots.

450
00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:57,667
Well, so... Judgment for the Plaintiff
in the amount of $500.

451
00:21:57,734 --> 00:21:59,767
Your counterclaim's dismissed.
We're done. Thank you.

452
00:21:59,834 --> 00:22:01,867
This court is adjourned.

453
00:22:01,934 --> 00:22:03,734
We, more or less, rescued this dog.

454
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,433
The dog had no issues before.

455
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:08,533
He cowers down to any sight of a male.

456
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,600
That's just a totally false statement.

457
00:22:10,667 --> 00:22:12,467
It's to the point where he's
gotta get a trainer.

458
00:22:12,533 --> 00:22:15,834
I hope that it is taken care of,
and if they don't want the animal,

459
00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:17,767
I'd be glad to take it back
and care for it.

460
00:22:17,834 --> 00:22:20,800
We're gonna work with him.
Yeah, we're not gonna let him go.

461
00:22:20,867 --> 00:22:25,667
Just another example of people who,
maybe, maybe not,

462
00:22:25,734 --> 00:22:29,400
looked into the history of a dog,
a wolf-dog.

463
00:22:29,467 --> 00:22:31,667
- Mm-hmm.
- And if you read about it...

464
00:22:31,734 --> 00:22:33,433
I did a little, before the case.

465
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:38,533
Yeah, and it said that a wolf-dog is
a mix between a wild dog

466
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,066
and a domesticated dog.
And they list the names

467
00:22:41,133 --> 00:22:43,667
of the kinds of dogs
that they have been bred with

468
00:22:43,734 --> 00:22:46,333
over the course of the years.
But in that kind of situation,

469
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,200
you don't know
how much wolf you're getting.

470
00:22:48,266 --> 00:22:49,266
It's a risk.

471
00:22:49,333 --> 00:22:53,200
You could be getting eight percent wolf,
you could be getting fifty percent wolf.

472
00:22:53,266 --> 00:22:56,633
You really don't know.
I think that there are some jurisdictions

473
00:22:56,700 --> 00:22:59,867
where they don't allow them
to be sold as domesticated pets.

474
00:22:59,934 --> 00:23:02,667
I think there are a few out there.
I just think it's a gamble

475
00:23:02,734 --> 00:23:05,000
and you have to be
willing to assume the risk.

476
00:23:05,066 --> 00:23:07,600
I think that we have
totally covered wolf-dogs.

477
00:23:07,667 --> 00:23:08,667
I think we have.

478
00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:13,767
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