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Going into the church.
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And the little ones out here playing.
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Having fun.
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- How's everybody doing?
- Hey.
5
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:34,880
- How you doing?
- Good.
6
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,480
Good to see you, bud.
7
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- How you doing?
- My son, Quentin.
8
00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,360
- Hey.
- Quentin, nice to meet you.
9
00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,360
Recently, my parole officer
just allowed me to start going to church.
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I've been attending
for about six weeks now,
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00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,000
and it's a blessing to me.
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00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,320
- Dale.
- Good to see you. How you doing?
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- Greasy hand.
- It's okay.
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00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:57,080
It's okay. God bless you.
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I have waited
for this moment for a long time,
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and these people understand that.
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Father, guide me
to make the right decisions,
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and teach me to use my time
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to accomplish the greatest good
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and to strengthen this life of mine.
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00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,520
I think it would be appropriate now, Dale,
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if you'd come forward
and give us your testimony.
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00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,360
I just wanna say that I'm grateful
for each and every one of you
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00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:47,920
that have given me an opportunity.
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You've opened your hearts,
and you opened your church
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00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,680
and your lives to me.
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00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,920
I wasn't strong enough
until three, four years ago
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to be able to step forward
and admit who I was and what I was.
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I went to court
for capital murder in 1990,
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00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,400
and ended up on death row for three years
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for the life that I took
for someone trying to
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00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,720
blackmail me
into a homosexual relationship.
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Some people will think that
I shouldn't breathe another breath
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00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,400
after the moment that I took that life.
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00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,160
So, because I'm a murderer,
I don't have the right to tell the truth?
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00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,400
I'm not concerned about the people
that want to speculate,
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00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,080
because the children
of God will understand.
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It's important
that people understand
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00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,600
that we have these trials and tribulations
that we go through in life.
40
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,880
And that day that I took that life,
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00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,520
I was taking my own,
I didn't wanna live anymore.
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00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,520
'Cause I was tired of living in that pain.
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00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,440
In my childhood,
I went through some things.
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00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,240
Being molested at the age of ten,
45
00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,120
it scarred me and hurt me for life.
46
00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,120
I was growing up with that
stigmatization of being molested.
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00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,200
It was hard.
48
00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,840
It made me question about my sexuality
and who I was and am I really a man?
49
00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:05,520
It was like the catalyst to
50
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,840
self-destruction
eventually 11 years later,
51
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,760
'cause I was running
from my demons and my fears.
52
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,440
And when I came to Texas,
53
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:17,960
it all started again.
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00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:23,400
The time around the murder,
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00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:25,600
I was really emotional.
56
00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,040
I was really lost.
57
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,440
I was back on the intravenous drug,
shooting meth, cocaine.
58
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,400
And that's when I met John.
59
00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,520
And, uh... we became close friends.
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00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,240
He let me come over and shower,
you know, take a nap.
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00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:44,960
I confided in him and told him about,
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00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,880
you know, what I've been through,
and why I was living on the streets,
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00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:50,920
about being molested at ten.
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00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:54,320
You know, in time,
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00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,800
I trusted John. I got to know John.
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00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,320
I thought he was a really sincere,
good friend.
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00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,840
That one night
when I came over to his house,
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00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:07,440
I took a shower
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00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,600
and lay down. I fell asleep.
I woke up, he was on top of me.
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00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:11,880
I pushed him off of me.
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00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,520
I said, "What are you doing?"
I grabbed my stuff,
72
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:15,600
and that...
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00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:17,520
that fear kicked in
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00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:19,400
of when I was ten.
75
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,120
I told him, "John, I befriended you, man.
76
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,800
What made you think
that I would want that?"
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00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,400
He told me, "Man, if you don't...
If you don't agree,
78
00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,720
I'm gonna tell everybody
that you were doing it anyway."
79
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,280
I suppressed everything
for all my life, but...
80
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:42,600
I reached my breaking point.
81
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:46,400
I befriended John...
82
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,320
and then he tried to blackmail me
into a homosexual relationship.
83
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,000
I told him,
"I don't have nothing to live for."
84
00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,040
I said, "If you do that,
I promise you I'll kill you."
85
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,880
And I meant that with all my heart,
because I didn't care about my own life.
86
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,080
Two days after John tried to abuse me
87
00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,280
is when he made calls looking for me,
88
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,920
and I took that as a threat
that he was gonna tell people that
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00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,920
we had a sexual relationship,
which was a lie.
90
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,680
Because I may be a lot of things,
and I might even be a killer, a murderer.
91
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:29,720
But I've never been a homosexual.
92
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,760
And I decided that
I was gonna fight back,
93
00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:36,640
that I'd warned him.
94
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,880
And I was gonna fulfill
what I said I was gonna do.
95
00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:51,000
April 6th, 1990...
96
00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,520
I walked into that Subway sandwich shop.
97
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,040
And he said, "So, you decided
to come around and see it my way, huh?"
98
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,000
And I took the .45 out of my pocket,
99
00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,640
I set it on the top of tabletop,
and I pushed it right in front of him,
100
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,520
and he started shaking, literally.
He was terrified.
101
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,160
I shot him six times in the chest.
102
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:21,680
Then when he fell,
103
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:23,840
I emptied the rest of the clip.
104
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,000
Shot him twice in the back of the head
as he lay there.
105
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:48,200
I question myself a lot
106
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,160
about how I let myself get in
that situation, that I would do that.
107
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:01,880
It's a dark place to be.
108
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,680
I mean, to be that broken.
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00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:09,800
I'll forever be paying for that.
110
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,120
I wish I would've never taken John's life.
111
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,280
No one deserved that.
112
00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,440
That's why I haven't
forgiven myself to this day.
113
00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,240
And people tell me I gotta get past it.
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00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:20,480
I gotta forgive myself.
115
00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:24,560
It's not an easy thing to do.
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00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,920
You know, but I can't turn back
the hands of time.
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00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,440
All I can do is make my life account
of the matter now
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00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,040
and try to give back.
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00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,320
You know, my life has been...
120
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,480
a torment of winds
and frustrations and tides
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00:08:43,560 --> 00:08:45,920
that kept pulling me out
deeper and deeper...
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00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,280
That's why I wanna tell the story.
Give back.
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00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:51,440
I wanna help other people,
to let them know being molested
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00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,520
or being abused
or whatever you're going through.
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00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,800
You have to reach out to somebody
until somebody hears you.
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00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,640
I didn't do nothing
as a ten-year-old child
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00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,240
to warrant being molested,
128
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,040
but I held that my whole entire life.
129
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,960
I had nowhere to release it.
I had nowhere to go,
130
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,520
but that pain became
my process to my purpose,
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00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,520
to the vision that God has for me.
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00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,040
Because I know each
and every day that I live,
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00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:18,800
and that every breath that I take
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00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,320
is living proof
that miracles really can happen.
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00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:22,840
Thank you.
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00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:23,920
Amen!
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00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,120
I think it's a story of redemption and...
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00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,280
we're all capable of being redeemed
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00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,560
if we go the right route.
140
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:42,800
I thought it was tremendous.
141
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,760
I can relate to Dale a whole lot,
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00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,000
'cause I was locked up myself
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00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:49,920
for 28 years flat
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00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,320
on an attempted murder case,
145
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,000
but I didn't do like Dale.
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00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,600
Dale got smart and found God
and all that stuff,
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00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:01,480
and I didn't. I was...
I just kept rebelling.
148
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,000
I think Dale is good, man.
149
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:07,960
He knows what he's talking about.
150
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,440
There's been a lot of blessings
since I've been out,
151
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,000
and a lot of people's hearts
have been softened.
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00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,560
That's the prayer I've had
since I've been out.
153
00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,000
- Yeah.
- So, God's been making a way.
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00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,720
Over these few months,
155
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,880
Dale has made a lot of progress.
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00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,720
He has won a lot of people over,
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00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,040
uh... especially the church members.
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00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,760
They are just blown away by him
159
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,600
when he testifies
and tells them his story.
160
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,920
Dale is winning people over every...
161
00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:57,840
time he has the opportunity
to speak with them.
162
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,440
Hi!
163
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,920
- Come on in.
- How y'all doing?
164
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,240
Pretty good.
165
00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,440
- This is Dale.
- How you doing?
166
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,040
Dale, this is my grandson, Shannon Junior.
167
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:15,920
- How you doing?
- Jenny.
168
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,800
- Cheyenne.
- I appreciate you coming.
169
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,640
I've been wanting to, been busy.
170
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,240
With me, what you see is what you get.
There's no question you can't ask
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00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:25,680
that I won't try to answer.
172
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,880
And I own who I am and what I am
and where I've come from.
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00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,040
- One thing I've never been
- He has nothing to hide.
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00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,160
Is timid to the point of where,
you know, I won't answer a question.
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00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:39,640
Do you mind us asking like how?
- You wanna know how?
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00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,080
Back from when I was ten,
I was molested as a child,
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00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,160
11 years later, living on the street,
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00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,320
someone try to blackmail me
into a homosexual relationship.
179
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,200
And I told him,
"Where I'm at in life and in this time...
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00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,480
if you do that, I'm gonna kill you."
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00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:56,920
I said, "'Cause all I have left is,
182
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,320
you know, my reputation,
183
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,760
and keeping my word
and being a decent individual",
184
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:04,160
you know?
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00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,120
And he thought it was a game.
186
00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,560
- You shot him?
- Yeah.
187
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,000
That night, I took two lives.
His and mine.
188
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,720
But it's by the grace of God
that I'm still alive.
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00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,280
Not everyone is gonna understand
or be receptive to my story,
190
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,400
because there's two types of people
in the world people are terrified of,
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00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,960
and that's murderers and child molesters.
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00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:32,480
And I'm a murderer.
193
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,360
- Too much cuteness.
- Good seeing you.
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00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,600
Gradually, people that got to talk to me
195
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,200
and converse with me and hear my story,
196
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,200
they generally see the man I am now.
197
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:44,160
Appreciate y'all coming.
198
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,160
- Don't be a stranger. Come on by.
- Yeah, anytime.
199
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,840
- What do you think about him?
- He talks a lot.
200
00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:58,200
I mean, yeah, he's been inside
201
00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,160
- prison all his life.
- He's cool.
202
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,480
He's gonna talk.
Tell everybody his story...
203
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,000
so everybody knows who he is.
204
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,600
Yeah, seemed like he learned
a lot in prison.
205
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,200
He was on drugs
and going through a rough time.
206
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,720
The guy also did something
to hurt him, too.
207
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,040
I'd probably do the same thing he would.
208
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,800
Before the murder,
I was living on the streets,
209
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,240
and I met John Zeltner.
210
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,120
You know, I trusted John.
I got to know John.
211
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,640
I thought he was a really sincere,
good friend.
212
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,280
And then he tried to blackmail me
into a homosexual relationship.
213
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,440
I told him,
"I don't have nothing to live for."
214
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,520
I said, "If you do that,
I promise you I'll kill you."
215
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,080
If he's saying
that's what he believes today,
216
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,280
and still believes
that that was justified,
217
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,440
I'll be frank with you, I got problems.
218
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:11,840
I got concerns...
219
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:13,400
uh...
220
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,600
with society being exposed to
that type of irrational thought.
221
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:20,440
I'm not gonna call somebody a liar.
I don't know what's true or not.
222
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:21,760
I will say this:
223
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,560
That information, if that information
224
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:28,680
is true, and if it's accurate,
225
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,200
that should've been told to a jury.
226
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,440
And so, I'll be frank with you,
I wouldn't believe that on face value.
227
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,160
He's claiming, if I'm correct,
that he's being blackmailed...
228
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,360
by an individual saying that he...
229
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,320
um... is gay.
230
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:48,440
All right?
231
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,080
To me, I think it's rather ridiculous.
232
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,360
If someone wants to
233
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,120
uh... claim that my lifestyle
is something other than it is,
234
00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,880
I don't care. Go right ahead.
235
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,960
I know who I am.
What's that gonna do to me?
236
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,320
How is that gonna hurt me? All right?
237
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,560
I don't have a right to go take your life.
238
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,560
It's pretty extreme.
No, that's very extreme.
239
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:10,920
And, uh...
240
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:13,520
it's really irrational.
241
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,120
Mr. Sigler is now reversing roles.
242
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,480
He has turned himself into the victim,
243
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,240
and John Zeltner into the bad guy.
244
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,000
And he's not a victim.
He is not a victim.
245
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,920
If he's a victim of anything,
he's a victim of himself
246
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,400
and of his own actions.
Nobody else.
247
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,760
Nobody in society is to blame
for what happened. Period.
248
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,160
Except himself.
249
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,120
You need to get on your knees
and not only thank your God.
250
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,360
Get on your knees and thank society
for that second chance.
251
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,360
Talking about how people
need to understand him.
252
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,040
Let me tell you something.
Society is giving you this second chance.
253
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,920
You need to be grateful.
You need to be humble.
254
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:57,480
Be accountable.
255
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,880
Quit making up excuses,
quit talking about it, move forward.
256
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,640
And now do what's right.
257
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,080
It's not about shifting blame.
It's about telling the truth.
258
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,840
I take full responsibility
for the life that I took...
259
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,560
but try to understand
how I got to that point.
260
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:31,920
I couldn't see clearly.
261
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,160
I couldn't see a future.
I couldn't see a life.
262
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,680
All I seeing was the torment and the pain.
263
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,440
Was there nothing else
you could've done? Rather than killing?
264
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:45,600
People don't understand.
265
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,280
They always wanna talk about
what you could've done.
266
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,120
Hindsight is 20/20.
267
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,200
You know, what you could've done
and conjecture 30 years later,
268
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,440
that's a waste of time to me.
269
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,160
It doesn't resolve a situation.
It doesn't bring John's life back.
270
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,880
See, what people
don't want to understand is,
271
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,320
the pain and torment
that got you to that point
272
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:09,960
to where you would take a life.
273
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,120
Why didn't you tell people at the time?
274
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,560
Why would I wanna tell people?
275
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,960
The times that I tried to reach out
and tell my attorney and tell people,
276
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,520
you know, it's like I was ridiculed.
277
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,080
I was told the first time
that I met my attorney,
278
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,160
"What are you?
The biggest idiot in the world?"
279
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,040
The judicial system
doesn't really wanna know.
280
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,520
My attorneys really didn't wanna know.
281
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,520
So, why would I wanna share with anyone?
282
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,480
Because I felt like there was no way
that anyone was gonna understand.
283
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,120
It didn't matter to me.
284
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:45,280
I just wanted it over.
285
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:47,400
I wanted to die.
286
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,720
Do you have resentment
towards gay men, are you homophobic?
287
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,400
- How do you feel about people who are gay?
- No.
288
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,200
I didn't kill him because he was gay.
289
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,120
I've never been resentful or homophobic
290
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,720
or had any type of
291
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,400
issues with other people's
choices in life.
292
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,400
'Cause I'm not judgmental of people.
293
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,720
Do I believe in homosexuality?
No, I believe it's abomination to God.
294
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,320
'Cause that's what the principles
of the word of God tell me.
295
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:18,720
That's what they teach me.
296
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,520
But your damned to live that life.
297
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,080
But I don't sit in judgment of people.
I love people in spite of.
298
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,960
So, no, as a child and even to this day,
I'm not judgmental.
299
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,960
I don't hate anyone for their beliefs
300
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:32,800
or their sexuality.
301
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,280
Never have.
302
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,400
But it seems other people
wanna sit in judgment of me
303
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,800
because I killed a homosexual,
trying to make it into a hate crime.
304
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,080
It wasn't about that.
305
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,880
I wonder if he misread your signals.
306
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,320
There is no way
that you can misread my signals.
307
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,120
There is no way that you can misconstrue
the type of man that I was.
308
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:55,600
There's no way.
309
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,400
See, people think that there just...
Maybe there's something more
310
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,840
to this that we just don't know,
311
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,040
or maybe this is just
for five minutes of fame or,
312
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,080
maybe this is, you know,
313
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,120
trying to cover something else up, or...
314
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:13,920
No, this is genuine.
315
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,960
This is exactly what happened
and the truth of the matter.
316
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,440
I'm telling the story
not to villainize the individual,
317
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,800
not to make an excuse,
not to try to justify
318
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,160
what I've done.
319
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,920
I don't care what people say or what
they think or what they see anymore.
320
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:38,760
Because I know it's the truth.
321
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,920
It's the perfect cover,
322
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,920
because the person that can really tell
everybody what really happened is dead.
323
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,400
I guess it's pretty easy
to shift responsibility to a dead man
324
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,000
when he can't come forward and,
325
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,280
tell us probably
what really was the relationship
326
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,000
between
327
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,360
Dale Sigler and himself.
328
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,000
And even if you were to say
Sigler is telling the truth there,
329
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,680
that's not much of a reason
to go out and kill somebody.
330
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:21,520
Because of an attempted
331
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,920
homosexual liaison?
332
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:25,880
Come on. Give me a break.
333
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,160
Well, I suppose the question becomes,
334
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:51,000
is it a worse set of facts
that John Zeltner got killed because
335
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,800
Dale Sigler alleged he was a homosexual
336
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,520
and was blackmailing
337
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,120
Dale Sigler?
338
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,360
Or is it a worse set of facts
that he killed John Zeltner
339
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,880
uh, because he wanted to get money
340
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,760
for more drugs and more booze?
341
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,720
Either scenario is pretty damning,
I think.
342
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,800
You know, whatever spin
you wanna put on it,
343
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,440
there is one common denominator,
and that is John Zeltner is dead.
344
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,160
I really have no idea if he's remorseful.
345
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:41,440
I hope he is.
346
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,240
I hope he thinks about every day
what he's done to my family.
347
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:46,840
There's no forgiveness.
348
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,240
I will never, ever forgive him.
349
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:53,720
He couldn't say or do anything to me
to bring my brother back.
350
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:54,880
Should I forgive him?
351
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,600
No, no.
352
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,040
Not at all.
353
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:01,680
Wouldn't change one bit if I thought
he was gonna be reformed.
354
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,360
I still feel the same way.
355
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,840
You know, what you did before,
356
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:07,560
you should pay for.
357
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,600
I think anybody that's been
a prosecutor, defense lawyer, or a judge
358
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:29,920
for any amount of time
359
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,520
have asked the question:
360
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,400
"What is a fair punishment for murder?"
361
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:36,920
And...
362
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,920
I will tell you that's
a very difficult question to answer.
363
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,280
I am comfortable with the sentence
that he received in this case.
364
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,720
Regardless of what people say,
365
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,240
thirty years in prison
is a boatload of time.
366
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,360
Dale has basically spent
almost 60% of his life in prison,
367
00:22:58,760 --> 00:22:59,760
so...
368
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,840
I'm okay with the sentence.
369
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,480
But he better not screw up again.
370
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,360
Driving a car after 30 years,
371
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,000
it's a beautiful thing.
372
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,920
I waited a long time to be able to
373
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,320
get in my own automobile
and be able to drive
374
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,120
and take myself to work
375
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,560
and just enjoy life,
have the wind blowing in your hair,
376
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,600
you know, have the radio on.
377
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,040
Just being free.
378
00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:58,840
And that's really what it's about.
379
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,520
I look forward to coming every day,
380
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,440
'cause it's a little bit, you know, quiet,
381
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,800
peace, tranquility.
382
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,800
I mean, being stuck in prison
with all that screaming and hollering,
383
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,440
you know, it's kind of frustrating.
384
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,120
Now you don't have to deal with that,
it's a relief.
385
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,920
Ain't nothing like a hard week of work,
386
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,880
come home with a pocket with money
387
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,960
and take a shower, sit down,
and eat dinner with someone you love.
388
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,560
You know, just talk about life.
Just enjoy life, you know?
389
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,080
We just take it for granted. I know I did.
390
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,480
You know,
every moment's precious now to me.
391
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:01,880
I've been
392
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,920
kind of on my own for a while now.
393
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,240
And even though I like my privacy,
394
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:14,240
it's nice to have somebody else
to talk to and just pal around with.
395
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:16,920
So, we're having a good time.
396
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,440
Learning about things
about our pasts and each other
397
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,240
and enjoying it. Just enjoying it.
398
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,840
That's my yearbook from high school.
399
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,400
- I got this...
- That's when I was born.
400
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,040
- And? What are you trying to say?
- 1967.
401
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,800
- That's a good year.
- Oh, okay.
402
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,920
You should've had a good year that year.
403
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:38,640
Your picture in there?
404
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,760
Yes.
405
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,320
- Oh, cut it out!
- Yeah!
406
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,000
Cut it out.
407
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:46,640
Yeah.
408
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,960
Our relationship is still good.
409
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,880
We still love each other,
410
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,520
but yeah, we have our moments,
411
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,680
but we always kiss and make up.
412
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,120
You really wanna see...
413
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,680
my picture?
414
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,240
Yeah, where is it?
415
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,360
- I ain't gonna tell you.
- Ah.
416
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,080
You gots to find me.
417
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,960
Dale is still a big kid at heart.
418
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,280
He gets goofy.
419
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,680
He's having fun,
and he's wanting to express
420
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,880
that happiness,
and he can only do it by being a big kid.
421
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,000
- Still ain't found me?
- You trying to stop me
422
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,640
- from getting your picture.
- I'm not.
423
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,680
- Yeah, you are.
- No, I'm not.
424
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,680
- No, I am not.
- Okay, I'm just saying.
425
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:32,160
That's you?
426
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,720
- Yep.
- Mama Carole, you beautiful.
427
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,600
Still beautiful, but you was beautiful.
428
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:40,000
Well, thank you.
429
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,960
If I was 19 years old,
and in school with you then,
430
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,280
- I would've been chasing you.
- Oh!
431
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:46,920
- You was gorgeous.
- Oh...
432
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,400
You was gorgeous.
433
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,240
I really didn't know
that much of the details
434
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,000
about the murder,
435
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,160
until we were sitting in the living room,
436
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:05,080
and I asked him about it.
437
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,680
When he told me what happened,
438
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,040
I was in a little bit of shock.
439
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,800
And then my heart broke even more,
440
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,280
because...
441
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,520
I could see how much he was hurting.
442
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,000
So, I didn't change my opinion
of how I felt about him.
443
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,400
And no matter what, I got his back.
444
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:52,680
Life at the moment is...
445
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:54,640
pretty beautiful.
446
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,920
When you think back on it,
how far I've come,
447
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:01,840
what I've came through...
448
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,120
I couldn't see this day coming.
449
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,280
To be in this moment
and just to be able to...
450
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,200
smell the fresh air,
look at the clouds in the sky,
451
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:17,600
it's just...
452
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,240
It's a beautiful day.
453
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,720
What is a fair punishment
454
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:29,760
for murder?
455
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,040
I know that I deserved this opportunity.
456
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,080
I know I've earned
457
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,120
this freedom.
458
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,480
After 30 years of incarceration,
459
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,600
I've paid my price. More than enough.
460
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,400
I've changed. I've grown. I've matured.
461
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,400
So, yeah, I deserve this.
462
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,800
I deserve opportunity,
just like anyone else.
463
00:29:25,224 --> 00:29:28,224
Subtitles Diego Moraes(oakislandtk)
www.opensubtitles.org