What is a fair punishment
for murder?
Thirty years ago, I killed a man.
And for that crime,
I was sentenced to death.
If I would've been executed, I would've deserved it.
But God, I like to believe, had a bigger plan and a purpose for me.
"You should've died. You're not worthy."
But God is my judge and my jury.
I just ask that people give me a chance.
Open your heart some time.
Don't be so pre-judgmental.
I'm a walking miracle,
whether you wanna accept it, or whether you don't.
You can't take that from me.
Okay, I'll sit up a bit more on the chair.
Is that good?
Dale, can you see me?
Yes.
My name is Dale Wayne Sigler.
I was born...
May the 10th, 1967.
I was born in
Danville, Illinois.
In order to understand the whole story, you have to understand
where it all originated from.
My mother was first married with two other sons.
My father met her when she was going through a lot in her life.
She was 15 years old when she first got pregnant.
And my mother was really a child
trying to find her purpose and place in life.
A child having children.
My father, he ended up losing his job.
He became...
very despondent,
very frustrated.
And he'd become real abusive,
so that trickled down to his kids, to my mother.
I've seen my mother get beat up so bad by my father
that...
her eyes were black and blue.
Lip split.
Go to sleep with a butcher knife under her pillow.
'Cause she was afraid that...
either...
either her,
or one of us kids...
were gonna get hurt critically.
Things happened in my childhood that,
you know, traumatized me for the majority of my life.
At the age of ten, I was molested by someone in the family.
And that's something that I held in my heart all my life.
And I couldn't talk to anyone.
Every time I tried to,
you know, it was rejection.
One time, I tried talking to my mother about what I went through as a child,
and my mother couldn't deal with the severity of it,
and it was just overwhelming,
and she went in her room and shut the door.
And at that time, it just...
It just ate me up inside.
Then and there,
I just went all the way downhill.
When I moved to Texas,
I fell back off into drugs and stuff again.
Hooked on cocaine, methamphetamines, intravenously.
Smoking speed, drinking.
Living on the streets, robbing, stealing, jacking.
Did whatever I could do to survive.
Life just seemed like it was over with, and at that time,
I told the Devil, I said:
"You might as well have your way. Let's see what you can do, Devil,
because God don't care."
That day that I walked into that Subway shop,
a lot of things changed.
I went in there,
"Now get up and go empty the cash register."
I told him to get the money and put it in a bag.
He was so terrified, he run to the back room.
When he run to the back room, I ran back there.
When he turned around, I shot him. Six times in the chest.
I took John's life selfishly.
I'll forever have to carry that pain in my heart,
for taking him away from his family.
I just wanna say to Mrs. Zeltner
and her family that I apologize
with my soul and my heart.
My name's Tommy Lenoir.
In 1990, I was a homicide detective with the Arlington Police Department.
I've worked a lot of murders in 26 years in the homicide unit,
and you just never forget
cases of this nature where they're just so absolutely senseless
and brutal.
We're now at the location, at the Subway, where the...
capital murder occurred,
back in April of 1990.
When we went into the Subway, the victim was found in a pool of blood,
in the office area located at the back of the sandwich shop
The fact that
a murder occurred during the course of a robbery is not unusual.
We see that all of the time.
The mere brutality of this case,
the, what appeared to be execution-style
killing of this victim,
that's what made this remarkable.
That's what took this to a higher level than other cases of this nature.
This was overkill.
He was shot more times than he needed to be shot.
He was also shot in a very cowardly way. He was shot in the back.
And then when he fell to the ground and was helpless, probably already dying,
he shot more. Well, that's what overkill is.
It's someone who is, uh... enjoying what they're doing.
You can tell that they really are taking
pleasure into the pain and suffering that they're creating.
From the moment I got involved,
I was convinced that the real issue and the real battle in this case would be
what is the appropriate punishment to give Dale Sigler?
We felt at the time, it was appropriate to seek the death penalty because
there was a possibility that if we waive the death penalty,
that he could in fact be paroled after 15 years.
And we just didn't think that was enough time.
All murders are bad,
there's no such thing as a good murder, but,
the facts and circumstances of this case were particularly heinous, I thought.
John Zeltner, at the time he was murdered,
was about three or four weeks shy of his 31st birthday.
The manager that we spoke with
and the fellow employees that we spoke with
about John Zeltner,
all described him as a hard-working employee, a nice young man.
Dale Sigler knew that John Zeltner was gonna be
at the Subway sandwich shop working alone,
but he chose the Subway sandwich shop.
And he chose to rob somebody who actually knew him.
And Dale Sigler went into the sandwich shop, sat down,
had a conversation with John Zeltner,
bummed a cigarette off of John Zeltner.
You know, talked about a few things.
Uh... and then just minutes later,
summarily executes him
for whatever money was in the cash register.
That's pretty cold-hearted, in my mind.
I think Dale, in his state of mind,
when he went in there, thought: "Don't leave any witnesses",
and Dale knew that John Zeltner could identify him
and tell the police within five minutes after he walked out of that
"Hey, the guy that robbed me,
believe it or not, is a guy I know. His name is Dale Sigler."
Sometimes the most simplest of explanations
is in fact the best explanation.
I went to death row in '91.
When they came and got me,
they put me on a chain with everyone else.
Started walking towards death row...
and, uh...
when we hit the hallway,
"Dead man walking", like on Green Mile,
like it was a joke or something.
You know, that's...
when it really hit me, the ramifications of my choices.
I turned my life around when I went to death row.
On death row that first day, I cried out to God.
"God, my whole life you've been there for me.
You reached out to me when I was a child."
"God, manifest your life, please.
Show me that you're all-powerful. Allow your light to shine on me, God.
Show me that I have a purpose."
That's when I started hearing a little voice,
"Just be still, it's gonna be okay."
And, uh...
that was...
that was God.
So I started striving to try
to not give up.
If I would've been executed, I would've deserved it.
But God, I like to believe, had a bigger plan and a purpose for me.
I've been incarcerated now, 27 years,
five months.
I came in here when I was 21 years old.
A lost, disturbed child.
I'm a 50-year-old man now,
that has striven to better himself, to rehabilitate himself.
I see God daily.
I study God's word three to four hours every day.
I try to mentor the people.
I try to reach out to people.
My whole destiny has been paved before me by the word of God.
I'm living testimony and a walking miracle.
All praise and glory to my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ,
and from now on, I will walk in His grace.
The most unique thing,
I think, about this case, is why the case got reversed.
I would have to say that Dale Sigler's
probably a very lucky man,
because but for this...
change in the jury selection law that they applied retroactively,
I think there's a very high likelihood that Dale Sigler would've been executed
sometime in the 90's in the state of Texas.
Angel, Tilly, somebody.
Come on.
Tilly!
The first time I met Dale was at the Wayne Scott Unit
in Angleton.
I was there visiting my stepson...
when Dale walked through the door.
Pete introduced us, and it was like...
this was a really
sweet man.
Come here. Mama's good. Oh, that's my girl.
You hungry? Huh?
My name is Carole,
and I'm 71 years old.
I live by myself in a mobile home
in rural Texas.
Miss Kitty is probably around 16,
maybe 17 years old.
She is the old lady of the house, like me.
And I have three others.
This is Ebony.
She's the one I found in the cemetery and raised her from basically a newborn.
That's my girl.
I've always been a person that wanted to help the helpless,
and the discarded ones.
I guess it's always been part of my nature.
It's like they need me,
and to a point, I need them.
Huh.
And it's basically the same way with people.
Dale and I became pen pals when my stepson asked me if I would
write to him.
So we've been writing back and forth to each other for nine years.
I probably have somewhere around 200 plus letters from him.
He always starts his letters off to me the same...
"God bless you and keep you always
within the loving grasp of His hand."
"I am here at Carol Vance Unit." This is when he first got there.
"But I'm excited to get started in the program.
I was given a job in the laundry but haven't started yet."
Our relationship
developed over the years.
I was able to go visit him,
and so we got to know each other more.
He really doesn't have anybody else in Texas, so...
I kind of stepped in to be there for him.
And that's when he started calling me "Mama Carole".
I was... I am his
second mom, according to him.
"Dear Mama Carole...
God bless you and keep you always..."
"God is good, Mama."
Between visits and letters,
we have really opened up to each other.
"You are a precious gift from my Heavenly Father.
My guardian angel,
wondrously poised within God's gracious love."
"831."
And that stands for
eight letters, three words...
one meaning:
"I love you."
He's a special man.
I can't remember exactly when Dale
asked me if
it was okay for him to parole to my house,
but I could tell when he first started to ask me
he was very shy about it,
because I think he was afraid I would say: "Oh, no, no, no."
I had my reservations for a moment,
"Well... what's the right thing to do?"
Uh, and I basically...
quickly asked God for, you know, an answer,
"This man needs you",
and,
that's why I went ahead and said: "Okay, yeah."
That's all I wanna do, is just help him...
start over.
Put it around my neck?
Well,
today you got some news.
Yes, sir, uh...
Today I found out that, um...
I'm getting ready to go home.
Uh...
Tuesday.
Uh...
This is my 30th year incarcerated.
And it's...
it's such a blessing,
'cause I never thought that I'd see this day.
I was just overjoyed.
Uh... still am...
emotional.
A little fear,
'cause I've been gone so long.
I just praise and thank God
that he's given me a second chance.
The hardest thing is gonna be
actually trying to adapt,
because I've been isolated in a small community
inside of a community.
People tell me all the time that you really can't fathom
what life is like,
what society's like, how much it has changed.
People have told me that they went
to the mall, and the colors and the movement just made them sick.
I mean, when I was out there, there was no cell phones.
I mean, there's so many things in society that were non-existent
when I walked in here.
Carole Whitworth is a blessing,
because without Mama Carole,
I wouldn't have a place to call home.
Mama Carole is a rock.
She's a good old country girl, but she's strong,
she has integrity,
love, honor.
I mean, she is just such a blessing to me.
I know it's gonna be an uphill battle.
People will believe that you're a monster,
that you're an animal,
that you have not changed, that you cannot change.
But one day, those hearts will change.
I firmly believe that,
because I'm not the lost, disturbed, emotional child that I once was.
I'm a grown, focused,
purposeful individual, man of God now.
I just ask that people just give me a chance,
because time is a revealer of all things.
Johnnie Bill was one of the nicest people you'd ever meet.
He'd be sitting over there, drinking Keystone beer,
making somebody laugh, telling a joke or something.
Definitely a people person.
My name is Forest Allan Zeltner.
Johnnie Bill's actually our half-brother.
He was my father's
firstborn son.
His name was John William Zeltner,
named after my father,
but everybody that knew him called him Johnnie Bill.
Johnnie Bill sought out us, and we were able to meet him.
Instantly, there was a bond and connection between me and him.
We were very close.
John was just a fun-loving guy.
Everybody wanted to be around him.
He lived to help everyone else.
You know, a lot of people that knew my brother
knew that he was gay, and that he was open about it.
My father knew it, everybody in my family knew it.
We were all accepted of it, and we just realized that's Johnnie Bill,
and that's the way it's gonna be, and he's...
just Johnnie Bill. Still love him.
My name is John Harlan Zeltner.
Johnnie Bill, he come into my life when I was about 16 years old,
you know, and we talked on a daily basis.
I mean, every day.
Never had a cross word. Not one time, about anything.
That's rare, you know.
Yeah, we really miss him a lot.
You don't realize how fast life goes.
You think your time here is forever, it's really not.
At any given moment, you could be...
out.
Next minute, you could be dead.
It was hard. It was really hard hearing that your brother is now dead.
It was very hard for me,
it was very hard for my father,
and it was very hard for my younger brother.
I was pissed. Yeah, I was pissed.
I mean, I had some thoughts in my head,
that I would have liked to have done, but I didn't.
When I heard that he got death sentence, I was happy about it,
but at the same time,
I wanted the death sentence to happen right then and there.
I wanted him gone.
When I found out he wasn't gonna get death sentence, that it went back to...
pissed off again.
He shouldn't be alive.
Now he gets to walk?
No. I don't feel the system's done right there.
When I found out he was paroled,
it was like the nightmare starting all over again.
We weren't even notified.
Nobody told us.
Nobody said anything about it.
I really believe the justice system failed us.
I think it's bullshit.
I think the state of Texas needs to reevaluate their whole judicial system,
you know, 100%.
You kill somebody like that,
you should never see the light of day. Never.
I believe he is a huge risk to society.
I believe he will kill again.
Soon.
This is Dale's room.
It's gonna be a lot bigger than what he's used to.
For Dale,
he's always
gonna have that label of being a murderer.
And a lot of people are not gonna give him
the opportunity or the chance
to let them see the type of person he is now.
My family had their reservations.
Their main concern is he killed somebody,
so he might kill me.
They've actually said, "Are you nuts? Are you crazy? Why?"
They don't understand why.
They're gonna take some convincing.
So how long has Dale been in prison?
Thirty years.
- For what? - Murder.
Who'd he... No...
- Huh? - I don't know.
How many times you went to see him?
I went to see him
maybe three or four times?
I've been to see him twice...
No, three times
since he's been locked up at this unit he's at now.
I know you have concerns and all that.
You were afraid that since he murdered somebody,
that he would murder again. You know, he would kill somebody again.
And uh-uh.
He won't do that.
In prison right now, they call him "The Gentle Giant".
- Really? - Yes.
- Love you, Granny. - I love you, too.
Bye, baby. Mm.
Everything's gonna be just fine.
Y'all come over and see Dale,
and visit with him for a bit.
You'll be fine.
- Let me know when he gets here. - I will.
Carole, she's a good lady. She's nice,
so I guess she sees the good in people.
She'd rather they be good than bad.
She's good-hearted,
and I just don't want the guy
to be some crazy, try to kill us,
or her, or anyone.
I don't think he's gonna do that...
You don't even know him, so how do you know?
People change.
Not really.
I got up at four,
for the alarm was going off,
and I felt like I had just gone to sleep.
"Really? Already."
I can feel the emotions building.
And it's like:
"Calm down, keep it under control,
everything's gonna be great."
But I know when I get there, and I actually see Dale,
that it's gonna hit me full force then.
Definitely is gonna be
a special moment that...
we'll never forget.
I've had
this fleeting kind of moments of
doubt.
It might hit me for a moment, then I just put it out of my head.
I don't wanna think that I made the wrong decision.
Well, we're just now coming up to the unit,
so...
This is the turn.
I don't know how to explain it, but I feel that he has changed, and...
he's not that man anymore. I feel it deep down inside.
Everything's gonna be fine. It's gonna be perfect.
If Dale is doing all this to take advantage of me,
then he's got his reward waiting for him
on Judgment Day.
Subtitles Diego Moraes(oakislandtk) www.opensubtitles.org