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[guitar music plays]
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-[children chattering]
-[Dale] Going into the church.
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And the little ones out here playing.
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[chuckles]
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Having fun.
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-How's everybody doing?
-[man] Hey.
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-How you doing?
-Good.
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[Dale] Good to see you, bud.
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-How you doing?
-My son, Quentin.
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-Hey.
-Quentin, nice to meet you.
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[Dale] Recently, my parole officer
just allowed me to start going to church.
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I've been attending
for about six weeks now,
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and it's a blessing to me.
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-[man] Dale.
-Good to see you. How you doing?
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-Greasy hand.
-It's okay.
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It's okay. God bless you.
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[Dale] I have waited
for this moment for a long time,
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and these people understand that.
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[crowd] Father, guide me
to make the right decisions,
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and teach me to use my time
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to accomplish the greatest good
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and to strengthen this life of mine.
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[woman over speaker]
I think it would be appropriate now, Dale,
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if you'd come forward
and give us your testimony.
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[Dale] I just wanna say that I'm grateful
for each and every one of you
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that have given me an opportunity.
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You've opened your hearts,
and you opened your church
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and your lives to me.
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[Dale] I wasn't strong enough
until three, four years ago
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to be able to step forward
and admit who I was and what I was.
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I went to court
for capital murder in 1990,
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and ended up on death row for three years
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for the life that I took
for someone trying to
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blackmail me
into a homosexual relationship.
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[Dale] Some people will think that
I shouldn't breathe another breath
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after the moment that I took that life.
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So, because I'm a murderer,
I don't have the right to tell the truth?
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I'm not concerned about the people
that want to speculate,
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because the children
of God will understand.
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[opening theme music plays]
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[Dale] It's important
that people understand
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that we have these trials and tribulations
that we go through in life.
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And that day that I took that life,
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I was taking my own,
I didn't wanna live anymore.
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'Cause I was tired of living in that pain.
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[ominous music plays]
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[Dale] In my childhood,
I went through some things.
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Being molested at the age of ten,
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it scarred me and hurt me for life.
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I was growing up with that
stigmatization of being molested.
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It was hard.
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It made me question about my sexuality
and who I was and am I really a man?
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It was like the catalyst to
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self-destruction
eventually 11 years later,
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'cause I was running
from my demons and my fears.
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And when I came to Texas,
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it all started again.
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The time around the murder,
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I was really emotional.
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I was really lost.
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I was back on the intravenous drug,
shooting meth, cocaine.
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And that's when I met John.
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And, uh... we became close friends.
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He let me come over and shower,
you know, take a nap.
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I confided in him and told him about,
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you know, what I've been through,
and why I was living on the streets,
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about being molested at ten.
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You know, in time,
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I trusted John. I got to know John.
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I thought he was a really sincere,
good friend.
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That one night
when I came over to his house,
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I took a shower
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and lay down. I fell asleep.
I woke up, he was on top of me.
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I pushed him off of me.
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I said, "What are you doing?"
I grabbed my stuff,
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and that...
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that fear kicked in
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of when I was ten.
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I told him, "John, I befriended you, man.
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What made you think
that I would want that?"
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He told me, "Man, if you don't...
If you don't agree,
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I'm gonna tell everybody
that you were doing it anyway."
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[ominous music continues]
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I suppressed everything
for all my life, but...
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I reached my breaking point.
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I befriended John...
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and then he tried to blackmail me
into a homosexual relationship.
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I told him,
"I don't have nothing to live for."
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I said, "If you do that,
I promise you I'll kill you."
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And I meant that with all my heart,
because I didn't care about my own life.
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Two days after John tried to abuse me
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is when he made calls looking for me,
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and I took that as a threat
that he was gonna tell people that
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we had a sexual relationship,
which was a lie.
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Because I may be a lot of things,
and I might even be a killer, a murderer.
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But I've never been a homosexual.
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And I decided that
I was gonna fight back,
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that I'd warned him.
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And I was gonna fulfill
what I said I was gonna do.
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[sinister music plays]
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April 6th, 1990...
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I walked into that Subway sandwich shop.
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And he said, "So, you decided
to come around and see it my way, huh?"
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And I took the .45 out of my pocket,
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I set it on the top of tabletop,
and I pushed it right in front of him,
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and he started shaking, literally.
He was terrified.
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[tense music builds]
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I shot him six times in the chest.
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Then when he fell,
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I emptied the rest of the clip.
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Shot him twice in the back of the head
as he lay there.
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[dramatic music plays]
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I question myself a lot
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about how I let myself get in
that situation, that I would do that.
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It's a dark place to be.
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I mean, to be that broken.
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I'll forever be paying for that.
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I wish I would've never taken John's life.
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No one deserved that.
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That's why I haven't
forgiven myself to this day.
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And people tell me I gotta get past it.
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I gotta forgive myself.
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It's not an easy thing to do.
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You know, but I can't turn back
the hands of time.
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All I can do is make my life account
of the matter now
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and try to give back.
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You know, my life has been...
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a torment of winds
and frustrations and tides
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that kept pulling me out
deeper and deeper...
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That's why I wanna tell the story.
Give back.
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I wanna help other people,
to let them know being molested
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or being abused
or whatever you're going through.
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You have to reach out to somebody
until somebody hears you.
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I didn't do nothing
as a ten-year-old child
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to warrant being molested,
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but I held that my whole entire life.
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I had nowhere to release it.
I had nowhere to go,
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but that pain became
my process to my purpose,
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to the vision that God has for me.
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Because I know each
and every day that I live,
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and that every breath that I take
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is living proof
that miracles really can happen.
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Thank you.
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[audience] Amen!
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[clapping]
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[man]
I think it's a story of redemption and...
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we're all capable of being redeemed
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if we go the right route.
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I thought it was tremendous.
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I can relate to Dale a whole lot,
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'cause I was locked up myself
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for 28 years flat
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on an attempted murder case,
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but I didn't do like Dale.
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Dale got smart and found God
and all that stuff,
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and I didn't. I was--
I just kept rebelling.
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I think Dale is good, man.
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He knows what he's talking about.
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[indistinct chattering]
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There's been a lot of blessings
since I've been out,
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and a lot of people's hearts
have been softened.
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That's the prayer I've had
since I've been out.
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-Yeah.
-So, God's been making a way.
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[Carole] Over these few months,
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Dale has made a lot of progress.
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He has won a lot of people over,
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uh... especially the church members.
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They are just blown away by him
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when he testifies
and tells them his story.
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Dale is winning people over every...
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time he has the opportunity
to speak with them.
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[knocking]
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[Carole gasps] Hi!
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-Come on in.
-[Dale] How y'all doing?
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[Shannon] Pretty good.
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-[Carole] This is Dale.
-How you doing?
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Dale, this is my grandson, Shannon Junior.
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-How you doing?
-[Carole] Jenny.
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-[Carole] Cheyenne.
-[Dale] I appreciate you coming.
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[Shannon]
I've been wanting to, been busy.
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With me, what you see is what you get.
There's no question you can't ask
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that I won't try to answer.
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And I own who I am and what I am
and where I've come from.
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-One thing I've never been
-He has nothing to hide.
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is timid to the point of where,
you know, I won't answer a question.
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[Jenny] Do you mind us asking like how?
-You wanna know how?
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Back from when I was ten,
I was molested as a child,
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11 years later, living on the street,
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someone try to blackmail me
into a homosexual relationship.
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And I told him,
"Where I'm at in life and in this time...
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if you do that, I'm gonna kill you."
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I said, "'Cause all I have left is,
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you know, my reputation,
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and keeping my word
and being a decent individual",
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you know?
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And he thought it was a game.
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-[Shannon] You shot him?
-[Dale] Yeah.
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That night, I took two lives.
His and mine.
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But it's by the grace of God
that I'm still alive.
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[reflective piano music playing]
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[Dale] Not everyone is gonna understand
or be receptive to my story,
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because there's two types of people
in the world people are terrified of,
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and that's murderers and child molesters.
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And I'm a murderer.
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-[Carole] Too much cuteness.
-Good seeing you.
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Gradually, people that got to talk to me
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and converse with me and hear my story,
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they generally see the man I am now.
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Appreciate y'all coming.
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-Don't be a stranger. Come on by.
-[Carole] Yeah, anytime.
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-[Shannon] What do you think about him?
-He talks a lot. [chuckles]
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I mean, yeah, he's been inside
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-prison all his life.
-He's cool.
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He's gonna talk.
Tell everybody his story...
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so everybody knows who he is.
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Yeah, seemed like he learned
a lot in prison.
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He was on drugs
and going through a rough time.
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The guy also did something
to hurt him, too.
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I'd probably do the same thing he would.
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[ominous music plays]
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[Dale over tape] Before the murder,
I was living on the streets,
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and I met John Zeltner.
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You know, I trusted John.
I got to know John.
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I thought he was a really sincere,
good friend.
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And then he tried to blackmail me
into a homosexual relationship.
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I told him,
"I don't have nothing to live for."
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I said, "If you do that,
I promise you I'll kill you."
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If he's saying
that's what he believes today,
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and still believes
that that was justified,
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I'll be frank with you, I got problems.
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I got concerns...
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uh...
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with society being exposed to
that type of irrational thought.
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I'm not gonna call somebody a liar.
I don't know what's true or not.
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I will say this:
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That information, if that information
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is true, and if it's accurate,
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that should've been told to a jury.
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And so, I'll be frank with you,
I wouldn't believe that on face value.
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He's claiming, if I'm correct,
that he's being blackmailed...
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by an individual saying that he...
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um... is gay.
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All right?
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To me, I think it's rather ridiculous.
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If someone wants to
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00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,120
uh... claim that my lifestyle
is something other than it is,
247
00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,880
I don't care. Go right ahead.
248
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,960
I know who I am.
What's that gonna do to me?
249
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,320
How is that gonna hurt me? All right?
250
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,560
I don't have a right to go take your life.
251
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,560
It's pretty extreme.
No, that's very extreme.
252
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:10,840
And, uh...
253
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:13,520
it's really irrational.
254
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,120
Mr. Sigler is now reversing roles.
255
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,480
He has turned himself into the victim,
256
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,240
and John Zeltner into the bad guy.
257
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,000
And he's not a victim.
He is not a victim.
258
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,920
If he's a victim of anything,
he's a victim of himself
259
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,400
and of his own actions.
Nobody else.
260
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,760
Nobody in society is to blame
for what happened. Period.
261
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,160
Except himself.
262
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,120
You need to get on your knees
and not only thank your God.
263
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,360
Get on your knees and thank society
for that second chance.
264
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,360
Talking about how people
need to understand him.
265
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,040
Let me tell you something.
Society is giving you this second chance.
266
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,920
You need to be grateful.
You need to be humble.
267
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:57,480
Be accountable.
268
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,880
Quit making up excuses,
quit talking about it, move forward.
269
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,640
And now do what's right.
270
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,720
[ominous music plays]
271
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,360
[thunder booming]
272
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,080
[Dale] It's not about shifting blame.
It's about telling the truth.
273
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,840
I take full responsibility
for the life that I took...
274
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,560
but try to understand
how I got to that point.
275
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:31,920
I couldn't see clearly.
276
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,160
I couldn't see a future.
I couldn't see a life.
277
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,680
All I seeing was the torment and the pain.
278
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,440
[interviewer] Was there nothing else
you could've done? Rather than killing?
279
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:45,600
People don't understand.
280
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,280
They always wanna talk about
what you could've done.
281
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,120
Hindsight is 20/20.
282
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,200
You know, what you could've done
and conjecture 30 years later,
283
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,440
that's a waste of time to me.
284
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,160
It doesn't resolve a situation.
It doesn't bring John's life back.
285
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,880
See, what people
don't want to understand is,
286
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,320
the pain and torment
that got you to that point
287
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:09,960
to where you would take a life.
288
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,120
[interviewer]
Why didn't you tell people at the time?
289
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,560
Why would I wanna tell people?
290
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,960
The times that I tried to reach out
and tell my attorney and tell people,
291
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,520
you know, it's like I was ridiculed.
292
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,080
I was told the first time
that I met my attorney,
293
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,160
"What are you?
The biggest idiot in the world?"
294
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,040
The judicial system
doesn't really wanna know.
295
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,520
My attorneys really didn't wanna know.
296
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,520
So, why would I wanna share with anyone?
297
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,480
Because I felt like there was no way
that anyone was gonna understand.
298
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,120
It didn't matter to me.
299
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:45,280
I just wanted it over.
300
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:47,320
I wanted to die.
301
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,720
[interviewer] Do you have resentment
towards gay men, are you homophobic?
302
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,400
-How do you feel about people who are gay?
-No.
303
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,200
I didn't kill him because he was gay.
304
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,120
I've never been resentful or homophobic
305
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,720
or had any type of
306
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,400
issues with other people's
choices in life.
307
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,400
'Cause I'm not judgmental of people.
308
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,720
Do I believe in homosexuality?
No, I believe it's abomination to God.
309
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,320
'Cause that's what the principles
of the word of God tell me.
310
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:18,720
That's what they teach me.
311
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,520
But your damned to live that life.
312
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,080
But I don't sit in judgment of people.
I love people in spite of.
313
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,960
So, no, as a child and even to this day,
I'm not judgmental.
314
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,960
I don't hate anyone for their beliefs
315
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:32,800
or their sexuality.
316
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,120
Never have.
317
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,400
But it seems other people
wanna sit in judgment of me
318
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,800
because I killed a homosexual,
trying to make it into a hate crime.
319
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,080
It wasn't about that.
320
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,880
[interviewer]
I wonder if he misread your signals.
321
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,320
There is no way
that you can misread my signals.
322
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,120
There is no way that you can misconstrue
the type of man that I was.
323
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:55,440
There's no way.
324
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,400
See, people think that there just--
Maybe there's something more
325
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,840
to this that we just don't know,
326
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,040
or maybe this is just
for five minutes of fame or,
327
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,080
maybe this is, you know,
328
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,120
trying to cover something else up, or...
329
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:13,920
No, this is genuine.
330
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,960
This is exactly what happened
and the truth of the matter.
331
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,000
-[ominous music plays]
-[water trickling]
332
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,440
[Dale] I'm telling the story
not to villainize the individual,
333
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,800
not to make an excuse,
not to try to justify
334
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,080
what I've done.
335
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,920
I don't care what people say or what
they think or what they see anymore.
336
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:38,760
Because I know it's the truth.
337
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,920
[Greg]
It's the perfect cover,
338
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,920
because the person that can really tell
everybody what really happened is dead.
339
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,400
I guess it's pretty easy
to shift responsibility to a dead man
340
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,000
when he can't come forward and,
341
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,280
tell us probably
what really was the relationship
342
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:09,840
between
343
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,360
Dale Sigler and himself.
344
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,000
And even if you were to say
Sigler is telling the truth there,
345
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,680
that's not much of a reason
to go out and kill somebody.
346
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:21,520
Because of an attempted
347
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,920
homosexual liaison?
348
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:25,880
Come on. Give me a break.
349
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,160
Well, I suppose the question becomes,
350
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:51,000
is it a worse set of facts
that John Zeltner got killed because
351
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,800
Dale Sigler alleged he was a homosexual
352
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,520
and was blackmailing
353
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,120
Dale Sigler?
354
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,360
Or is it a worse set of facts
that he killed John Zeltner
355
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,880
uh, because he wanted to get money
356
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,760
for more drugs and more booze?
357
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,720
Either scenario is pretty damning,
I think.
358
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,800
You know, whatever spin
you wanna put on it,
359
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,440
there is one common denominator,
and that is John Zeltner is dead.
360
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,560
[reflective music playing]
361
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,160
I really have no idea if he's remorseful.
362
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:41,280
I hope he is.
363
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,240
I hope he thinks about every day
what he's done to my family.
364
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:46,840
There's no forgiveness.
365
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,240
I will never, ever forgive him.
366
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:53,720
He couldn't say or do anything to me
to bring my brother back.
367
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:54,880
Should I forgive him?
368
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,600
No, no.
369
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,040
Not at all.
370
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:01,680
Wouldn't change one bit if I thought
he was gonna be reformed.
371
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,360
I still feel the same way.
372
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,840
You know, what you did before,
373
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:07,520
you should pay for.
374
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,600
[Greg] I think anybody that's been
a prosecutor, defense lawyer, or a judge
375
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:29,920
for any amount of time
376
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,520
have asked the question:
377
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,400
"What is a fair punishment for murder?"
378
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:36,760
And...
379
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,920
I will tell you that's
a very difficult question to answer.
380
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,280
I am comfortable with the sentence
that he received in this case.
381
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,720
Regardless of what people say,
382
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,240
thirty years in prison
is a boatload of time.
383
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,360
Dale has basically spent
almost 60% of his life in prison,
384
00:22:58,760 --> 00:22:59,600
so...
385
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,840
I'm okay with the sentence.
386
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,480
But he better not screw up again.
387
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,440
[rock music plays over radio]
388
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,360
Driving a car after 30 years,
389
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,000
it's a beautiful thing.
390
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,920
I waited a long time to be able to
391
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,320
get in my own automobile
and be able to drive
392
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,120
and take myself to work
393
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,560
and just enjoy life,
have the wind blowing in your hair,
394
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,600
you know, have the radio on.
395
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,040
Just being free.
396
00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:58,840
And that's really what it's about.
397
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:09,760
[goat bleating]
398
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,360
[soft dramatic music plays]
399
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,520
[Dale]
I look forward to coming every day,
400
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,440
'cause it's a little bit, you know, quiet,
401
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,800
peace, tranquility.
402
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,800
I mean, being stuck in prison
with all that screaming and hollering,
403
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,440
you know, it's kind of frustrating.
404
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,120
Now you don't have to deal with that,
it's a relief.
405
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,920
Ain't nothing like a hard week of work,
406
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,880
come home with a pocket with money
407
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,960
and take a shower, sit down,
and eat dinner with someone you love.
408
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,560
You know, just talk about life.
Just enjoy life, you know?
409
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,080
We just take it for granted. I know I did.
410
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,480
You know,
every moment's precious now to me.
411
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:01,800
[Carole] I've been
412
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,920
kind of on my own for a while now.
413
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,240
And even though I like my privacy,
414
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:14,240
it's nice to have somebody else
to talk to and just pal around with.
415
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:16,920
So, we're having a good time.
416
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,440
Learning about things
about our pasts and each other
417
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,240
and enjoying it. Just enjoying it.
418
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,840
That's my yearbook from high school.
419
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,400
-I got this--
-That's when I was born.
420
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,040
-And? What are you trying to say?
-1967.
421
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,800
-That's a good year.
-Oh, okay.
422
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,920
You should've had a good year that year.
423
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:38,640
Your picture in there?
424
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,760
-Yes.
-[cackles]
425
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,320
-Oh, cut it out!
-Yeah!
426
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,000
-[laughs]
-Cut it out.
427
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:46,480
[Dale] Yeah.
428
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,960
[Carole] Our relationship is still good.
429
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,880
We still love each other,
430
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,520
but yeah, we have our moments,
431
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,680
but we always kiss and make up.
432
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,120
You really wanna see...
433
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,680
my picture?
434
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,240
Yeah, where is it?
435
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,360
-I ain't gonna tell you. [laughs]
-Ah.
436
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,080
You gots to find me.
437
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,960
[Carole] Dale is still a big kid at heart.
438
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,280
He gets goofy.
439
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,680
He's having fun,
and he's wanting to express
440
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,880
that happiness,
and he can only do it by being a big kid.
441
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,000
-Still ain't found me?
-You trying to stop me
442
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,640
-from getting your picture.
-I'm not.
443
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,680
-Yeah, you are.
-No, I'm not.
444
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,680
-No, I am not.
-Okay, I'm just saying.
445
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:32,160
[Dale] That's you?
446
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,720
-[Carole] Yep.
-Mama Carole, you beautiful.
447
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,600
-Still beautiful, but you was beautiful.
-[chuckles]
448
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:40,000
Well, thank you.
449
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,960
Dale] If I was 19 years old,
and in school with you then,
450
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,280
-I would've been chasing you.
-[Carole] Oh!
451
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:46,920
-You was gorgeous.
-Oh...
452
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,400
You was gorgeous.
453
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,240
[Carole] I really didn't know
that much of the details
454
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,000
about the murder,
455
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,160
until we were sitting in the living room,
456
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:05,080
and I asked him about it.
457
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,680
When he told me what happened,
458
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,040
I was in a little bit of shock.
459
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,800
And then my heart broke even more,
460
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,280
because...
461
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,520
I could see how much he was hurting.
462
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,000
So, I didn't change my opinion
of how I felt about him.
463
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,400
And no matter what, I got his back.
464
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,200
[wind rustling]
465
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,320
[soft piano music plays]
466
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:52,680
[Dale] Life at the moment is...
467
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:54,520
pretty beautiful.
468
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,920
When you think back on it,
how far I've come,
469
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:01,840
what I've came through...
470
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,120
I couldn't see this day coming.
471
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,280
To be in this moment
and just to be able to...
472
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,200
smell the fresh air,
look at the clouds in the sky,
473
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:17,600
it's just...
474
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,240
It's a beautiful day.
475
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,720
What is a fair punishment
476
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:29,640
for murder?
477
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,040
I know that I deserved this opportunity.
478
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,080
I know I've earned
479
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,120
this freedom.
480
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,480
After 30 years of incarceration,
481
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,600
I've paid my price. More than enough.
482
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,400
I've changed. I've grown. I've matured.
483
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,400
So, yeah, I deserve this.
484
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,800
I deserve opportunity,
just like anyone else.
485
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,200
[closing music plays]