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What's the cargo?

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Only passengers.

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Myself, the boy, two droids...

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And no questions asked.

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What is it? Some kind of local trouble?

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I remember seeing Star Wars over and over,

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and the formula was one that I didn't know yet.

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I didn't have a frame of reference of the source.

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So that was my entry into all of the things

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that helped create Star Wars.

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So through that, I learned about the western.

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Through that, I learned about samurai films.

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What I pitched when I went in, I said,

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I don't want to be influenced so much by Star Wars.

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Want to be consistent with Star Wars,

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but I want to be influenced by what influenced George,

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so let's look at the samurai movies.

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Let's really look at Kurosawa films.

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And that kind of led to the whole Lone Wolf and Cub thing

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that also felt like it applied in certain ways.

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We kind of had a primer of westerns.

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He would come up with movies. "Have you seen this?"

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And I'd be like, "No, but we should go over this trilogy again and watch this".

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And just kind of dissecting what makes them tick.

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The beautiful simplicity,

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yet really underlying complex characterizations that you get in them.

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Definitely, there's a Star Wars vibe to any of them if you look at them.

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I mean, look at Han Solo. He's just dressed like a gunslinger.

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I don't know who you are or where you came from,

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but from now on, you do as I tell you, okay?

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Look, Your Worshipfulness, let's get one thing straight.

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I take orders from just one person. Me.

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It's a wonder you're still alive.

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We'd get together, throw out a bunch of ideas,

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work on the logic, and then he would suss it out

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and come up with a script.

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Once the script was written, the first step was to storyboard.

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The Directors and the Producers would oversee the storyboarding process.

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We had a story department headed up by Dave Lowery.

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And we would get our first look at it in animatic form with pencil drawings,

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and we would iterate the story and watch it as one solid piece

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using temporary dialogue and effects.

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Advertise your product or brand here contact www.OpenSubtitles.org today

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Let's get out of here!

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Stand your ground!

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Once we arrived upon something that worked well in pencil,

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we would then go to pre-vis.

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When I came here and saw the way that they were using pre-vis,

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I was like, "This is so exciting"!

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The way that I've seen pre-vis used in the past, as an actor,

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is that when there's a scene where there's a lot of visual effects...

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And typically it's, like, an action sequence

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where, when you're shooting it, you need to be very precise.

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Filmmakers will create something called pre-vis, which is pre-visualization,

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and it's basically like a mock-up of what the sequence would be.

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And it's incredibly helpful.

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It was the first week we were on The Volume.

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And you and I were sat next to each other, and I think I asked you the question,

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"What's been the most eye-opening part"?

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What you mentioned is that you can go into editorial

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and see the story better and clearer.

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Yes. Yes.

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And I think you were maybe referencing...

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And that makes storytelling much tighter.

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And the closer we get to that animation process,

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where you can iterate on story longer,

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there's a permanence to live-action

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that requires that when you're on that set,

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doesn't mean you can't go back and reshoot certain things,

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but for the most part, what you're doing is permanent.

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Yeah.

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And then you have to move on.

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And anything about the process that allows you to iterate

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longer on story is...that's gonna make for better movies.

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It forces the filmmakers to commit early

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and understand and fail early when it's cheap and easy.

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It's what you learn from animation, going back to Snow White,

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there's still a scene that they talk about being on the cutting room floor.

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The idea that anything...

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That there's any waste in animation is just antithetical to the culture.

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That's why we plan everything.

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And that's why I involved visual effects from the beginning

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like as though you're my production designer...

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They need to be there from the beginning.

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Yes.

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So that it's not just thought of as a post exercise.

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It is fascinating to listen to live-action people talk about this process

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as someone from animation,

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'cause then I go back to where all the other animators are,

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and we get together, and we're like,

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"They're really talking about the process we do".

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They said 50.

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Races age differently.

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Perhaps it could live many centuries.

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We'll never know.

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We bring it in alive.

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The commission was quite specific.

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The asset was to be terminated.

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Something that happened on this show that's very, very, very unique

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is that Jon created a workflow where we could actually have pre-vis,

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but for the whole episode, for every episode.

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Now, that's something that is not done,

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and the reason why it was done in this case is because of "The Volume"

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and because of all the visual effects and all the things that need to be

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rendered way in advance of shooting.

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We needed to have a pre-vis, basically, for...

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Even though it's not necessarily an action shot

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or what you would consider a visual effect shot.

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Because it exists in The Volume, it's a visual effect shot.

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All of the technology that we're using

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is dependent upon planning everything with pre-vis,

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and we combine that with what I had learned

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on Jungle Book and Lion King,

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which was plan everything ahead of time with mo-cap,

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figure out a cut, and then figure out what live-action shots you need.

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Build the minimum set, and in the case of Jungle Book,

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you had green screen,

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and so you'd build a whole digital environment.

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You'd shoot on a cookie-cutter set, line it up with the motion capture camera,

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and combine the green screen with the environment that was digital,

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and Mowgli and the little piece of set would lay in

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against the digital characters and background.

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We took it a step further here.

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Go!

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On The Mandalorian, we departed from the normal pre-vis pipeline

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by using virtual cinema, which was a technique that we developed

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and refined on The Lion King.

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It uses game engine to allow the actual crew

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to operate camera equipment within the virtual world

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in order to record performances by either actors or stand-ins,

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and then we do camera capture on top of it,

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using equipment that's normally used to do photography,

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but instead, we've encoded it so that we could record cinematic moves

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within the virtual environment.

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The Directors had the opportunity to get involved

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much earlier than you normally would on a television show.

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We combined them with their crew and their editors,

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and together, they would come up with a first cut of the show

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using virtual cinema.

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Sometimes they would direct people in, uh, motion-capture suits

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to get a first take at what their vision might be.

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Sometimes they would work with the stunt team,

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capturing some stunt performances using motion capture,

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and they would have the opportunity to put cameras on it

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and cut it together and get a first look

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so we could tech-vis the episode and figure out what we needed

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to build and prepare for the actual filming.

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The real advantage was that it allowed us all to come together

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and look at a first cut of the episode done using this process,

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and although it looked like a video game at first

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and there were no real people in it,

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it gave us a sense of how the story flowed

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to see if we needed to do any rewrites or adjustments

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before we actually hit the stage and started filming.

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The whole goal was to treat this whole shoot

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like we would have on a superhero film reshoot,

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where you knew everything and what the story needed,

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because I've never been on a more efficient set

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than, like, the Iron Man reshoots.

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Because you filmed it. You did all the planning. You shot it.

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Got some visual effects going.

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You cut it together. You can't get it to be perfect.

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You're like, "If we only had another week or two, we could..."

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Yeah. On the Thor reshoots, I think we did something insane, like...

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In, like, five days, like, 360 shots or something.

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'Cause, like, you're just like,

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"This is all glue now. This is just the bits I need".

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They're really in.

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You're efficient, 'cause...

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Yep. 'Cause you know what it is.

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In principal, you're like,

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"Let's keep it running. It's a shot of this glass going on the table, but who knows what else..."

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We'll be open to whatever can happen.

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And on the reshoots, you're like,

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Got it. Don't need another one. It's just a shot of the glass.

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That's all we wanted, and it fixed everything.

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And so, by having us film in VR or with pre-vis,

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depending on which sequences they were...

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That's what was so good about having you, too,

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is coming from animation, everything is pre-vis.

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Everything.

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So you could jump in there, and for stuff like the Mudhorn sequence or air-to-air,

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stuff where there's not actors there,

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you can help translate the vision at the Director's end.

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Just an animated movie.

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And then also, when we're doing...

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and we refined it even more for this.

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Now we have the MVN suits, which we started on your episode.

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With the fight.

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How did that go?

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This experience was completely different for me

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'cause I come from independent film and smaller films,

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and there was no boards.

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You just sort of go in, you're writing, and you're with your team of bandits,

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you go make your movie.

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And so the whole process of pre-vis

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and building the story out beforehand, uh, was new to me.

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So it was like,

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"Oh, I wish...that's what happens when you get money. You can actually make the movie first".

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Actually plan. It's such a better way to do stunt-vis

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'cause it's like they're not trying to do some video

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and make all those camera angles that I don't want.

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It's like, I can put the cameras in and just get the action.

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Drive.

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Drive!

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It's a very different experience from all other television I've done.

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Having the prep time.

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Normally, you're getting, eight, nine days, then you're shooting.

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This, I was on it for two months before I started,

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and we pre-vis'd the entire episode.

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So even if, when we hit the set and we hit the ground,

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we're pressed for time and running and gunning

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at least we've had the time to really develop the material

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and really, sort of, creatively put it together

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so that we are really dialed in,

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not trying to figure it out on the day.

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We're trying to execute it.

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So that's been pretty amazing.

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Please. No. No, no.

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I did episode three, and it felt

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very much like a cross between a western and a samurai movie.

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That was my first thought, a gunslinger with a samurai code.

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They all hate you, Mando. Because you're a legend!

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A lot of my prep work in developing it, getting ready for it

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was going back and watching a ton of Kurosawa, who I love.

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I think Yojimbo was probably the strongest reference for it

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in terms of the stand-off on the street and a lot of the way we shot it.

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Welcome back, Mando!

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The stand-off was a lot of action. It was intense.

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And action!

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It took a lot of planning

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because I think we had over 25 bounty hunters running around,

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and then the Mandalorians land.

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It was three days.

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Then we ended up doing additional photography on it as well.

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It was a lot to keep track of, that's where you start to feel

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if this was a big feature and we were doing a huge movie,

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we'd probably have two weeks for it, we had three days,

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you have to really work within the constraints

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to make it work under that guise,

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but you're still trying to deliver the quality of a big feature.

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It's Star Wars and action.

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You really can't deliver anything that's not up to par.

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That was the challenge with that, but it was pretty fun.

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There was a moment, I think, in day two or three.

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We had shot so many zirc hits,

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done many explosions and started to run out.

248
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It was getting to the point where we were trying to preserve them

249
00:13:13,085 --> 00:13:15,128
because we couldn't get any more at that point

250
00:13:15,212 --> 00:13:17,381
'cause of the licenses on ammunition and whatnot.

251
00:13:17,464 --> 00:13:22,177
We shot off, I think over 7,000 rounds of zirc hits alone in those days.

252
00:13:22,803 --> 00:13:23,804
It's crazy.

253
00:13:28,976 --> 00:13:29,716
This is the Way.

254
00:13:30,613 --> 00:13:31,353
This is the Way.

255
00:13:35,107 --> 00:13:39,695
What was fascinating from my perspective was this dojo that we had,

256
00:13:39,778 --> 00:13:42,781
that we had a new style that we were coming up with together

257
00:13:42,865 --> 00:13:46,201
and everybody was bringing their own special talents to it,

258
00:13:46,285 --> 00:13:49,705
and every one of you brought a whole different set of skills.

259
00:13:49,788 --> 00:13:55,460
And what you may have seen as, "Oh, this is the way Jon wants to do it",

260
00:13:55,544 --> 00:13:58,755
was really all of us having separate conversations,

261
00:13:58,839 --> 00:14:03,010
and that informing the next conversation I had. So it was a very organic process.

262
00:14:03,093 --> 00:14:06,013
And all of it was spent facing the challenge of,

263
00:14:06,096 --> 00:14:08,056
how do you get something ready with a lot of prep time

264
00:14:08,140 --> 00:14:10,475
and not a lot of post time relative to a film?

265
00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,061
How do you borrow from the culture of animation

266
00:14:13,145 --> 00:14:17,107
that I was already exploring through Jungle Book and Lion King?

267
00:14:17,191 --> 00:14:19,109
And having Dave now...

268
00:14:19,193 --> 00:14:21,069
Something I was trying to reverse engineer,

269
00:14:21,153 --> 00:14:23,739
"How would Pixar do this?" Then I had somebody who said,

270
00:14:23,822 --> 00:14:26,950
"Oh, this is how you interact with a Pre-Vis Department".

271
00:14:27,492 --> 00:14:29,870
And all of that informed a cut,

272
00:14:29,953 --> 00:14:33,207
and that cut became the Rosetta Stone for us to move forward with.

273
00:14:34,124 --> 00:14:36,210
And by the end of it was much different.

274
00:14:36,293 --> 00:14:40,839
In the beginning, a lot of it was you giving direction to a pre-vis department,

275
00:14:40,923 --> 00:14:42,216
the third floor guys.

276
00:14:42,299 --> 00:14:48,434
By the end, it was you with stunt people in MVN suits which are gaming mo-cap suits...

277
00:14:48,524 --> 00:14:49,264
Exactly.

278
00:14:49,348 --> 00:14:54,394
...in a set that we taped off to fit exactly what the VR version of it was,

279
00:14:54,478 --> 00:14:56,067
and you did all the fight sequences.

280
00:14:56,157 --> 00:14:56,897
Yeah.

281
00:14:56,980 --> 00:15:00,108
Can you talk about that for a sec? I wasn't on set for a lot...

282
00:15:00,192 --> 00:15:00,932
Talk about it.

283
00:15:01,078 --> 00:15:01,818
"Talk about it"?

284
00:15:01,902 --> 00:15:02,643
Stop holding back.

285
00:15:03,513 --> 00:15:04,404
I'm holding this stuff back.

286
00:15:04,488 --> 00:15:05,781
Yes, I know.

287
00:15:05,864 --> 00:15:09,785
Um, no, and that was, again, when it started to get...

288
00:15:09,868 --> 00:15:11,995
Not that it wasn't fun to begin with,

289
00:15:12,079 --> 00:15:15,541
but it was a different level of how you could use this

290
00:15:15,624 --> 00:15:17,417
because now we were...

291
00:15:18,085 --> 00:15:21,630
Now I could go immediately from what was in my head

292
00:15:21,713 --> 00:15:25,300
to talking to stunt coordinator and his players,

293
00:15:25,384 --> 00:15:31,473
and having that captured in real time and putting that right into the pre-vis.

294
00:15:31,557 --> 00:15:32,683
And so now it's not...

295
00:15:32,766 --> 00:15:34,601
You would set cameras on top of that.

296
00:15:34,685 --> 00:15:35,936
We're setting cameras...

297
00:15:36,019 --> 00:15:38,522
I was watching the cuts as if you had shot it already.

298
00:15:38,605 --> 00:15:39,982
Exactly. And now it's not,

299
00:15:40,065 --> 00:15:42,985
you're having a conversation with THIRD FLOOR and Chris.

300
00:15:43,068 --> 00:15:46,989
You're now creating that on the fly,

301
00:15:47,072 --> 00:15:50,367
and so it was...and I remember when you were like,

302
00:15:50,450 --> 00:15:54,246
"We're gonna play with this on this". I was excited because it was...

303
00:15:54,329 --> 00:15:55,069
You were the first.

304
00:15:55,159 --> 00:15:59,960
Yeah, we had talked about some of the fight stuff that I like,

305
00:16:00,043 --> 00:16:05,716
and we both have a certain affinity for samurai and kung fu films,

306
00:16:05,799 --> 00:16:08,051
and so, you know, this was like,

307
00:16:08,135 --> 00:16:12,213
Okay, we can actually do this with our guys in the moment, as we would for an...

308
00:16:14,098 --> 00:16:14,850
What sequence was that...

309
00:16:14,933 --> 00:16:20,480
This was a sequence when Mando is going to break out...

310
00:16:21,315 --> 00:16:22,733
going to break out Xi'an,

311
00:16:22,816 --> 00:16:27,237
and so he's going through the prison,

312
00:16:27,321 --> 00:16:31,658
and there are tons of prison guard droids

313
00:16:31,742 --> 00:16:35,245
that come out of nowhere and start attacking them.

314
00:16:35,329 --> 00:16:36,610
And Bill Burr being his self, goes,

315
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:44,838
"Oh, you know Mando. He's supposed to be this ultimate warrior".

316
00:16:44,922 --> 00:16:45,923
"What you gonna do?"

317
00:16:46,006 --> 00:16:49,218
And the next thing you know, Mando jumps into action,

318
00:16:49,301 --> 00:16:52,429
and he starts taking down every single droid

319
00:16:52,513 --> 00:16:55,474
with his Mando bag of tricks, and so...

320
00:16:55,557 --> 00:16:57,809
That's when we had to change the droids. Remember?

321
00:16:57,893 --> 00:16:58,635
I was selling them,

322
00:16:58,725 --> 00:17:01,772
"We'll have droids, but they're gonna be floating droids".

323
00:17:01,855 --> 00:17:02,595
Then it was...

324
00:17:02,685 --> 00:17:05,146
They were big buckets, I'd say trash buckets.

325
00:17:05,236 --> 00:17:05,776
You said,

326
00:17:05,859 --> 00:17:10,155
"I could coordinate some stuff or do some choreography. We could use arms and legs".

327
00:17:10,239 --> 00:17:12,328
Doug Chiang, could you draw some, um...

328
00:17:12,418 --> 00:17:13,158
Yeah.

329
00:17:13,242 --> 00:17:16,286
And now, by the way, so you had human performers,

330
00:17:16,370 --> 00:17:18,330
and now when you see the sequence, it's...

331
00:17:18,413 --> 00:17:20,999
What's crazy is it was what we shot that day,

332
00:17:21,083 --> 00:17:25,212
you know, so it's still that session that we had.

333
00:17:25,295 --> 00:17:30,634
I think it was stage 17 taped off, and it's still that sequence.

334
00:17:30,717 --> 00:17:32,719
So you filmed it there with taped off.

335
00:17:32,803 --> 00:17:34,888
You could pop into VR. Saw all the action.

336
00:17:34,972 --> 00:17:38,433
Set cameras, did a cut, did it, filmed it for real.

337
00:17:38,517 --> 00:17:39,277
Exactly.

338
00:17:39,367 --> 00:17:41,979
And, uh...we didn't have any of that on Jungle Book.

339
00:17:42,062 --> 00:17:45,524
So now it's like, how can you use these tools to inform this process?

340
00:17:45,607 --> 00:17:49,528
It was really good. Now we're doing that for every scene, season two.

341
00:17:49,611 --> 00:17:51,321
Yeah, now that's exciting,

342
00:17:51,405 --> 00:17:55,659
'cause I'm gonna jump back in and do some stuff, once I get the script.