1 00:00:30,739 --> 00:00:33,283 So, here we are in a train yard in Los Angeles. 2 00:00:33,367 --> 00:00:35,994 We got our whole cast here, and we're having a good time. 3 00:00:41,875 --> 00:00:46,213 We're trying to draw from, uh, all over from Star Wars. 4 00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:48,507 It's really helpful for authenticity. 5 00:00:48,590 --> 00:00:50,968 And the enthusiasm is infectious. 6 00:01:01,270 --> 00:01:02,729 I'm a fan since I was little. 7 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,608 And now I'm surrounded by other fans, too. 8 00:01:06,692 --> 00:01:08,110 And it's been a real treat. 9 00:01:13,198 --> 00:01:15,826 There's a whole generation, that was the age I was 10 00:01:15,909 --> 00:01:18,120 when I saw the original trilogy that were that age... 11 00:01:18,829 --> 00:01:19,571 Sure, for the prequels. 12 00:01:19,661 --> 00:01:21,790 When they saw the prequels. 13 00:01:21,874 --> 00:01:24,751 And you were around for the prequels. You were doing it... 14 00:01:24,835 --> 00:01:25,575 I was. 15 00:01:25,665 --> 00:01:27,045 That was super cutting-edge stuff, 16 00:01:27,129 --> 00:01:29,506 just like the motion control stuff was cutting-edge then. 17 00:01:29,590 --> 00:01:32,134 Now it feels like that's nostalgic, in a way, 18 00:01:32,217 --> 00:01:33,639 compared to what we're able to do now. 19 00:01:33,729 --> 00:01:34,469 Yeah. 20 00:01:34,553 --> 00:01:37,097 You had to reengage with Star Wars 21 00:01:37,181 --> 00:01:40,642 after people hadn't seen it for how long since the original trilogy? 22 00:01:40,726 --> 00:01:42,519 Return of the Jedi was, what, 1983? 23 00:01:42,603 --> 00:01:44,146 And then we're '99. 24 00:01:44,229 --> 00:01:45,230 I was in high school. 25 00:01:45,314 --> 00:01:48,234 I was an usher at the RKO Keith's in Flushing when that movie was playing. 26 00:01:49,234 --> 00:01:51,361 I went from being a kid for the first one, 27 00:01:51,445 --> 00:01:54,114 by the last one I was with the Ewoks and everything, 28 00:01:54,198 --> 00:01:57,868 I was sort of, uh, It was no longer my main focus, you know? 29 00:01:57,951 --> 00:02:01,163 I sort of moved on to the Mad Max movies 30 00:02:01,246 --> 00:02:03,790 and The Road Warrior, that kind of stuff. 31 00:02:03,874 --> 00:02:05,417 So, what was it like to... 32 00:02:05,501 --> 00:02:08,629 Did you ever talk about these things while working on that? 33 00:02:08,712 --> 00:02:09,922 What was Star Wars? 34 00:02:10,005 --> 00:02:13,759 Or was it always George's vision, and he knew exactly what he wanted to do? 35 00:02:13,842 --> 00:02:17,763 I was very inspired to enter the industry because of Star Wars. 36 00:02:17,846 --> 00:02:21,892 In fact, I was 14 when Star Wars came out 37 00:02:21,975 --> 00:02:26,355 and started to think a little bit about what am I gonna do with my career? 38 00:02:26,438 --> 00:02:33,070 And, um, there was mechanical engineering or maybe architecture and... 39 00:02:33,153 --> 00:02:34,488 But then Star Wars came out, 40 00:02:34,571 --> 00:02:39,743 and suddenly there was all this exciting new stuff happening in entertainment. 41 00:02:40,410 --> 00:02:43,330 And it was really energizing and inspiring. 42 00:02:43,413 --> 00:02:47,251 And that really pushed me over the edge to want to go into the industry. 43 00:02:48,126 --> 00:02:49,127 And so... 44 00:02:50,003 --> 00:02:56,760 Then, all the steps that I took that landed me at ILM were with the hope that, 45 00:02:56,844 --> 00:03:01,682 "I want to work on something as big and ambitious as a Star Wars movie someday". 46 00:03:01,765 --> 00:03:05,227 And I just happened to be in the right place at the right time 47 00:03:05,310 --> 00:03:08,939 when George was starting to ramp up new Star Wars films. 48 00:03:09,565 --> 00:03:11,029 Were you at ILM at the time? 49 00:03:11,119 --> 00:03:11,859 Yeah. 50 00:03:11,942 --> 00:03:15,529 You were already there, and then, "Everybody, we're gonna make Star Wars"? 51 00:03:15,612 --> 00:03:17,114 That's kinda what happened? 52 00:03:17,990 --> 00:03:19,658 Yes, in a way and... 53 00:03:19,741 --> 00:03:22,119 Everybody who was working at ILM loved Star Wars, 54 00:03:22,202 --> 00:03:24,913 not thinking you're gonna do it again and George enters and says, 55 00:03:24,997 --> 00:03:27,416 "We'll make three more Star Wars movies". 56 00:03:27,499 --> 00:03:30,669 We had company meetings annually and, uh... 57 00:03:30,752 --> 00:03:33,922 George would address everybody and take questions, 58 00:03:34,006 --> 00:03:36,592 and inevitably, every year someone would ask... 59 00:03:36,675 --> 00:03:37,759 "What about Star Wars?" 60 00:03:37,843 --> 00:03:40,387 "Are you gonna do more Star Wars movies?" 61 00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:41,471 And... 62 00:03:42,139 --> 00:03:45,225 The first few years I was there, he was always noncommittal, 63 00:03:45,309 --> 00:03:47,311 "Yeah, I don't know. Maybe someday". 64 00:03:47,394 --> 00:03:51,356 And then I remember that one year, somebody asked that same question, 65 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,400 and he went, "Hmm, yeah, maybe". 66 00:03:54,359 --> 00:03:55,180 Well, I can speak to that, 67 00:03:55,270 --> 00:04:00,866 'cause I was around with the movies that were in between, which is the Indiana Jones movies. 68 00:04:01,325 --> 00:04:06,288 And I don't think he ever stopped thinking about whether he would do more Star Wars, 69 00:04:06,371 --> 00:04:11,460 and I think what happened during Indy was that he was not on the floor directing. 70 00:04:11,543 --> 00:04:15,297 He was not necessarily, you know, "in it" making... 71 00:04:15,380 --> 00:04:16,122 Which was Steven. 72 00:04:16,212 --> 00:04:17,883 'Cause it's primarily Steven. 73 00:04:17,966 --> 00:04:18,680 He was producing. 74 00:04:18,770 --> 00:04:19,510 Exactly. 75 00:04:19,593 --> 00:04:25,057 I think with anybody like George, and anyone who's a filmmaker, 76 00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:28,352 they get antsy after a while 77 00:04:28,435 --> 00:04:33,524 at not being able to be on that floor telling stories, making movies. 78 00:04:33,607 --> 00:04:36,109 And his love of pushing the technology, 79 00:04:36,193 --> 00:04:39,029 obviously, we were doing a certain amount of that 80 00:04:39,112 --> 00:04:41,448 with each of the Indiana Jones movies. 81 00:04:41,907 --> 00:04:43,909 But it wasn't like Star Wars. 82 00:04:43,992 --> 00:04:49,206 And I think that each time we would push the technology 83 00:04:49,289 --> 00:04:51,041 in making those movies, 84 00:04:51,124 --> 00:04:55,629 he got the bug to start thinking about what that might mean for Star Wars. 85 00:04:58,382 --> 00:05:01,009 I think Star Wars is such a part of people's lives, 86 00:05:01,093 --> 00:05:04,179 and it's something they see now on a regular basis 87 00:05:04,263 --> 00:05:07,391 that when you say "George Lucas, he created it", 88 00:05:07,474 --> 00:05:11,061 I don't think people give enough full value to what that means. 89 00:05:11,144 --> 00:05:16,275 I like to think I do, but I work with him, so I've seen him create it. 90 00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:21,321 I've seen the person that comes up with the lines and the dialogue 91 00:05:21,405 --> 00:05:25,909 and understands Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker in a very deep level, 92 00:05:25,993 --> 00:05:28,161 because those characters are a part of him. 93 00:05:29,079 --> 00:05:32,833 And for my part, joining Lucasfilm, I always respected that. 94 00:05:32,916 --> 00:05:35,627 I never felt that Star Wars is something that was mine. 95 00:05:35,711 --> 00:05:38,547 I felt privileged to be a part of telling the story. 96 00:05:38,630 --> 00:05:41,466 I felt grateful that I got to do it with George 97 00:05:41,550 --> 00:05:45,762 and that I would write stories and try and tell stories, and he would say, 98 00:05:45,846 --> 00:05:49,099 "Okay, well, that's not what I meant", or "that's not how that works". 99 00:05:49,183 --> 00:05:52,102 and he would course-correct it, because he should. It's his story. 100 00:05:52,644 --> 00:05:57,941 He created the universe, the Millennium Falcon, Chewbacca, Yoda. 101 00:05:58,025 --> 00:06:01,320 I mean, all these things, Darth Vader...all came out of his brain, 102 00:06:01,403 --> 00:06:05,741 and you just need to tap into that to stay true to kind of what this is 103 00:06:06,408 --> 00:06:07,659 and do what George did, 104 00:06:07,743 --> 00:06:10,495 which is constantly find new ways to tell these stories. 105 00:06:11,788 --> 00:06:14,166 I've always been in awe 106 00:06:15,375 --> 00:06:17,503 of Star Wars and the magic of that. 107 00:06:17,586 --> 00:06:21,173 What George has always done is bring collaborators in 108 00:06:21,256 --> 00:06:23,342 and see where you might go or take this. 109 00:06:24,426 --> 00:06:27,513 He really understood that the characters 110 00:06:27,596 --> 00:06:32,142 are meant to expand in ways that George might not even predict. 111 00:06:32,226 --> 00:06:34,811 And he's always been inclusive in that way. 112 00:06:34,895 --> 00:06:37,898 He's always wanted to really push the story 113 00:06:37,981 --> 00:06:41,276 in directions that includes other storytellers. 114 00:06:43,862 --> 00:06:45,948 That's good. 115 00:06:46,448 --> 00:06:52,996 I really love Star Wars and obsessed over it in many different ways. 116 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:58,877 And what was always cool about Star Wars was that it was a galaxy, 117 00:06:58,961 --> 00:07:01,213 and therefore as a kid growing up, 118 00:07:01,296 --> 00:07:04,258 I always felt that there were stories within that galaxy 119 00:07:04,341 --> 00:07:07,469 that I could be a part of and was a part of telling, 120 00:07:07,553 --> 00:07:09,596 even if it was just me and my friends, 121 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,516 or me by myself with my action figures. 122 00:07:12,599 --> 00:07:14,643 Okay, laugh. 123 00:07:14,726 --> 00:07:15,978 And flames! 124 00:07:16,061 --> 00:07:19,273 Whoa. Easy, easy. 125 00:07:19,356 --> 00:07:22,860 It's fascinating to experience that as a child. 126 00:07:22,943 --> 00:07:26,780 You know, to have your imagination so enriched by these stories. 127 00:07:27,239 --> 00:07:30,325 There are such universal themes in the Star Wars stories, 128 00:07:30,409 --> 00:07:35,539 and ironically, I think people feel that despite being fantasy, 129 00:07:35,622 --> 00:07:38,208 it reflects the world we actually live in, 130 00:07:38,292 --> 00:07:41,712 in its inclusiveness and diversity and conflict. 131 00:07:41,795 --> 00:07:43,463 Wars not make one great. 132 00:07:44,381 --> 00:07:45,716 The spirit of Star Wars, 133 00:07:45,799 --> 00:07:49,678 it's always been about these young dreamers and hot rods 134 00:07:49,761 --> 00:07:52,097 and everything else, and so... 135 00:07:52,181 --> 00:07:56,393 What I feel is so great about the team that's come together 136 00:07:56,476 --> 00:07:59,521 is that everyone is coming with their own experiences 137 00:07:59,605 --> 00:08:03,567 to a universe and a galaxy that can support it. 138 00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:05,777 And I think Jon wants to see that, 139 00:08:05,861 --> 00:08:09,323 and everyone's gonna have their own different point of view 140 00:08:09,406 --> 00:08:11,533 of what makes Star Wars special to them. 141 00:08:11,617 --> 00:08:15,787 But I think that's exactly why this show is so exciting, 142 00:08:15,871 --> 00:08:17,789 because it can hold all of that, 143 00:08:17,873 --> 00:08:20,375 because the galaxy has always been that big. 144 00:08:32,054 --> 00:08:34,097 Just like the good old days. 145 00:08:34,181 --> 00:08:36,266 Yeah, just like the good old days. 146 00:08:40,354 --> 00:08:44,483 Let's talk about George and all of...because I don't think people understand... 147 00:08:44,566 --> 00:08:46,985 Let's rattle off all the breakthroughs... 148 00:08:47,444 --> 00:08:48,185 Jeez. 149 00:08:48,275 --> 00:08:49,154 That he had, starting... 150 00:08:49,238 --> 00:08:49,980 I'll start... 151 00:08:50,652 --> 00:08:51,865 We'll go around. Let's do a party game. 152 00:08:51,949 --> 00:08:52,950 Everybody say one. 153 00:08:53,033 --> 00:08:56,453 When I came in the company, I was astounded to find out 154 00:08:56,537 --> 00:08:59,915 that there were over 126 patents 155 00:08:59,998 --> 00:09:03,627 literally new technology that he had created. 156 00:09:04,169 --> 00:09:05,629 - Astounding. - Like Edison Lab. 157 00:09:05,712 --> 00:09:09,925 So, let's start. Here, I'll do one. First CG character. 158 00:09:10,008 --> 00:09:10,750 EditDroid. 159 00:09:12,072 --> 00:09:13,136 EditDroid was turned into Avid. 160 00:09:13,220 --> 00:09:14,596 Motion control. 161 00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:16,223 For the miniatures at Kerner? 162 00:09:16,306 --> 00:09:20,561 Yeah. Well, first motion control system on Star Wars, first film. 163 00:09:20,644 --> 00:09:22,938 A good question that you know the answer to is, 164 00:09:23,021 --> 00:09:28,990 which Star Wars film has the most practical miniatures in it of all the films. Including the new ones? 165 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:29,820 Episode I. 166 00:09:29,903 --> 00:09:30,645 Phantom Menace. 167 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:32,322 That's all miniature work. 168 00:09:32,406 --> 00:09:35,117 Everybody's like, "That's CG". No, that's real miniatures. 169 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,201 Models. 170 00:09:36,285 --> 00:09:38,370 Yeah, models. Beautiful and big models. 171 00:09:38,453 --> 00:09:39,580 What else we got? 172 00:09:39,663 --> 00:09:42,624 It's not a single type of thing, 173 00:09:42,708 --> 00:09:46,712 but Jurassic Park was a massive sea change for visual effects. 174 00:09:46,795 --> 00:09:48,130 That was the tipping point. 175 00:09:48,213 --> 00:09:52,176 Before that, you'd had the chrome T-1000. 176 00:09:52,259 --> 00:09:53,000 People thought, 177 00:09:53,090 --> 00:09:55,752 "Okay, that's suitable for computer graphics, it's a chrome dude". 178 00:09:55,842 --> 00:09:57,514 It doesn't look like a real person. 179 00:09:57,598 --> 00:10:00,184 There were other things that were kind of... 180 00:10:00,267 --> 00:10:02,853 The Abyss really started that, and that was also ILM, right? 181 00:10:02,936 --> 00:10:05,814 Abyss, then T2, and then Jurassic, 182 00:10:05,898 --> 00:10:09,109 and that was when people saw for the first time it was flesh and blood. 183 00:10:09,193 --> 00:10:11,028 Not like someone else was doing Abyss 184 00:10:11,111 --> 00:10:12,487 and ILM jumped in to do Jurassic. 185 00:10:12,571 --> 00:10:14,489 Back then, there were very few places. 186 00:10:14,573 --> 00:10:17,451 When the dinosaurs come onto the screen for the first time, 187 00:10:17,534 --> 00:10:21,538 I sat up in my seat and I thought, "I have to know how they did this", 188 00:10:21,622 --> 00:10:25,209 because I understand that the computer, there's computer graphic involved. 189 00:10:25,292 --> 00:10:26,710 I could learn how to do this. 190 00:10:26,793 --> 00:10:29,880 I'll never be the world's greatest artist at painting or drawing, 191 00:10:29,963 --> 00:10:32,758 but I feel like I can learn how to do this on the computer. 192 00:10:32,841 --> 00:10:37,179 I can get a book, I can find people, 'cause this is gonna absolutely explode. 193 00:10:37,262 --> 00:10:39,806 And that's how I started on my journey. 194 00:10:39,890 --> 00:10:43,268 It was that moment, seeing that movie, and seeing things I need to know. 195 00:10:43,352 --> 00:10:45,812 It makes me think, hearing you talk about this... 196 00:10:45,896 --> 00:10:50,484 I'd be curious from all of you guys because of what we all do 197 00:10:50,567 --> 00:10:52,444 and what we all get excited about. 198 00:10:53,362 --> 00:10:58,617 What your movie experience was, when that light bulb went off, 199 00:10:58,700 --> 00:11:01,161 and you're like, "I'm doing this"? 200 00:11:01,245 --> 00:11:05,749 For me, it was the original King Kong. I saw it on TV when I was six or seven, 201 00:11:06,416 --> 00:11:09,086 and I was really unhappy with the treatment of Kong 202 00:11:09,169 --> 00:11:11,922 at the end, so my mom helped me draft a letter 203 00:11:12,005 --> 00:11:15,342 to the local TV station who I held responsible, and... 204 00:11:15,425 --> 00:11:16,510 Wow! 205 00:11:16,593 --> 00:11:18,470 But it got me interested in stop motion, 206 00:11:18,554 --> 00:11:21,056 so I was doing stop motion when Star Wars came out. 207 00:11:21,139 --> 00:11:24,476 I was 13, and shooting stop motion stuff with a Super 8 camera. 208 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:26,645 Star Wars came out and that broadened 209 00:11:26,728 --> 00:11:29,147 my whole interest in visual effects. 210 00:11:29,231 --> 00:11:32,359 Like, how Luke's speeder was done, how the lightsabers were done, 211 00:11:32,985 --> 00:11:36,572 the spaceships and everything else. And so that kind of sealed the deal. 212 00:11:43,912 --> 00:11:45,173 For over a thousand generations, 213 00:11:45,263 --> 00:11:50,419 the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic 214 00:11:51,170 --> 00:11:52,588 before the dark times. 215 00:11:53,422 --> 00:11:55,215 Star Wars was a big influence on me, 216 00:11:55,299 --> 00:11:58,010 'cause it came out in '77. I was born in '66, 217 00:11:58,093 --> 00:12:01,638 so I was right at the right age for that thing to hit. 218 00:12:03,599 --> 00:12:05,058 I don't remember a commercial, 219 00:12:05,142 --> 00:12:07,603 I remember seeing a picture in the newspaper, 220 00:12:07,686 --> 00:12:09,730 like The New York Post, about the movie. 221 00:12:09,813 --> 00:12:12,816 And I saw the picture of Chewbacca and Han Solo. 222 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:15,027 Whatever the headline was, I was intrigued. 223 00:12:17,237 --> 00:12:20,699 And I went to see it, and then it was just, like... 224 00:12:21,241 --> 00:12:24,036 It just pinned my ears back just looking at that thing. 225 00:12:24,119 --> 00:12:26,705 And I was just mouth agape. 226 00:12:29,082 --> 00:12:34,838 So my tastes formed around George Lucas's Star Wars. 227 00:12:42,554 --> 00:12:44,473 I remember, very vividly, 228 00:12:44,556 --> 00:12:47,976 scoring tickets to Return of the Jedi. 229 00:12:48,060 --> 00:12:51,063 It felt like the golden ticket 230 00:12:51,146 --> 00:12:53,982 for getting into Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. 231 00:12:55,734 --> 00:12:58,153 That's right, R2. We're going to the Dagobah system. 232 00:12:58,237 --> 00:12:59,696 I have a promise to keep, 233 00:12:59,780 --> 00:13:01,198 to an old friend. 234 00:13:01,281 --> 00:13:03,909 It's so funny the way a child's imagination works, 235 00:13:03,992 --> 00:13:06,411 because I remember, so specifically, 236 00:13:06,495 --> 00:13:10,541 knowing we had tickets to the 3:00 p.m. showing 237 00:13:10,624 --> 00:13:13,001 and staring at the poster, 238 00:13:13,085 --> 00:13:15,879 and I'm pretty sure it was Luke Skywalker's hand 239 00:13:15,963 --> 00:13:18,173 holding the lightsaber. 240 00:13:18,507 --> 00:13:22,344 It felt like a movie moment, like the camera should have been there, 241 00:13:22,427 --> 00:13:26,014 close on my face, on the hand and everything with Star Wars music, 242 00:13:26,098 --> 00:13:28,225 and I went, "I'm finally going to see this movie". 243 00:13:28,308 --> 00:13:31,061 Welcome, young Skywalker. 244 00:13:31,687 --> 00:13:33,313 I have been expecting you. 245 00:13:34,565 --> 00:13:40,112 So, when these kinds of movies come into your imagination as a child, 246 00:13:40,195 --> 00:13:42,656 it really shapes a lot 247 00:13:42,739 --> 00:13:45,367 and sets a certain standard of entertainment 248 00:13:45,450 --> 00:13:46,952 that is hard to match. 249 00:13:47,035 --> 00:13:48,912 He's all yours, bounty hunter. 250 00:13:49,580 --> 00:13:53,417 As I became more of a student of filmmaking 251 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:57,504 I really began to appreciate the brilliance of Star Wars, 252 00:13:57,588 --> 00:14:00,465 and what Lucas had created. 253 00:14:00,549 --> 00:14:03,969 And then I, of course, started to read more. 254 00:14:04,761 --> 00:14:08,182 And the hero's journey and all those kinds of books 255 00:14:08,265 --> 00:14:11,977 and began to really appreciate Joe Campbell 256 00:14:12,060 --> 00:14:15,647 and what he was saying, and understand a lot more. 257 00:14:15,731 --> 00:14:16,773 Luke, 258 00:14:16,857 --> 00:14:20,444 you do not yet realize your importance. 259 00:14:20,527 --> 00:14:23,280 You have only begun to discover your power. 260 00:14:23,363 --> 00:14:27,409 Join me, and I will complete your training. 261 00:14:27,993 --> 00:14:30,746 It was beyond being groundbreaking, Star Wars was. 262 00:14:30,829 --> 00:14:36,835 It was, in its own way, like a crack into some other universe 263 00:14:36,919 --> 00:14:38,837 that I hadn't been exposed to. 264 00:14:38,921 --> 00:14:41,256 The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. 265 00:14:42,257 --> 00:14:44,718 It's an energy field created by all living things. 266 00:14:44,801 --> 00:14:47,346 It surrounds us and penetrates us. 267 00:14:47,429 --> 00:14:49,515 It binds the galaxy together. 268 00:14:49,598 --> 00:14:52,309 So it was pretty phenomenal. 269 00:14:52,392 --> 00:14:56,605 Not only what it was at the time, but what it has become. 270 00:14:56,688 --> 00:14:59,691 I, for one, I celebrate your success. 271 00:14:59,775 --> 00:15:02,277 Because it is my success as well. 272 00:15:07,449 --> 00:15:10,744 And something that I didn't really appreciate till later in life, 273 00:15:10,827 --> 00:15:13,872 was in Empire Strikes Back, and that's Luke's training. 274 00:15:13,956 --> 00:15:16,583 Like, I think that all of that stuff with Yoda, 275 00:15:16,667 --> 00:15:18,585 it went over my head when I was a kid 276 00:15:18,669 --> 00:15:21,338 And it freaked me out when he goes into that cave 277 00:15:21,421 --> 00:15:24,925 and he sees his face in the mask, and I was like, "What is this movie? 278 00:15:25,008 --> 00:15:26,051 "It isn't like the last". 279 00:15:26,134 --> 00:15:27,135 Yeah. 280 00:15:27,302 --> 00:15:29,805 But that darkness and all of the messages, 281 00:15:29,888 --> 00:15:32,850 and I think my favorite of all of the lines... 282 00:15:32,933 --> 00:15:36,228 And definitely in that film was when, um, you know, 283 00:15:36,311 --> 00:15:39,106 when he's trying to get the ship out of the swamp. 284 00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:41,400 And he can't do it, and then... 285 00:15:41,483 --> 00:15:43,861 Then Yoda brings the ship out, 286 00:15:43,944 --> 00:15:46,697 all the way out, floats it over and then puts it down, 287 00:15:46,780 --> 00:15:49,616 and Luke says, "I don't believe it". 288 00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:51,743 And he goes, "That's why you fail". 289 00:15:52,327 --> 00:15:53,453 That's so good. 290 00:15:53,537 --> 00:15:55,581 I just got chills when you said that. 291 00:15:55,664 --> 00:15:57,040 That, that's really... 292 00:15:57,165 --> 00:15:58,208 Yeah, totally. 293 00:15:58,292 --> 00:16:01,628 You're right, you appreciate that scene when you go back to it. 294 00:16:01,712 --> 00:16:03,172 You go back to it and you go, 295 00:16:03,255 --> 00:16:05,757 oh, there's so many deep themes... 296 00:16:05,841 --> 00:16:07,968 Especially in terms of spirituality and... 297 00:16:08,051 --> 00:16:10,262 Even just how he introduced himself. 298 00:16:10,345 --> 00:16:14,683 Luke thinks he's looking for this great Jedi, and it's... 299 00:16:14,766 --> 00:16:16,022 "Wars don't make one great". 300 00:16:16,112 --> 00:16:16,852 Yeah. 301 00:16:16,935 --> 00:16:21,064 I thought it was special the way they mixed creatures 302 00:16:21,148 --> 00:16:23,483 and the Henson stuff with live action. 303 00:16:23,567 --> 00:16:26,195 And I don't think anyone's done it quite like that. 304 00:16:26,278 --> 00:16:29,448 Um, so, like, the training scene for that, 305 00:16:29,531 --> 00:16:31,533 when I was trying to do the montage 306 00:16:31,617 --> 00:16:34,119 with the Ugnaught trying to teach IG to walk, 307 00:16:34,203 --> 00:16:37,414 that tone was actually really difficult to find, 308 00:16:37,497 --> 00:16:39,708 'cause it...in three, it had been very clear 309 00:16:39,791 --> 00:16:42,336 it was very clear it was a Western, it was Yojimbo. 310 00:16:42,419 --> 00:16:46,048 So it was a very clear tone, and that was lyrical and poetic. 311 00:16:46,131 --> 00:16:51,057 And it was mixing, and trying to actually deliver something quite with a lot of gravitas... 312 00:16:51,147 --> 00:16:51,887 Yes. 313 00:16:51,970 --> 00:16:56,266 With a droid and an animatronic, you know, Ugnaught, which is... 314 00:16:56,350 --> 00:16:58,018 That's teaching him. 315 00:16:58,101 --> 00:16:59,269 - That's... - It's great... 316 00:16:59,353 --> 00:17:01,355 But that's what's special. Nothing else... 317 00:17:01,438 --> 00:17:04,066 There's no other series or world that does that. 318 00:17:04,149 --> 00:17:04,949 And we talked about this. 319 00:17:05,660 --> 00:17:06,401 It's hard to do that. 320 00:17:06,485 --> 00:17:09,154 Like the Pietà of him holding the droid. 321 00:17:10,322 --> 00:17:13,575 'Cause what we had to do was take the droid that was just terrible, 322 00:17:13,659 --> 00:17:18,539 and was gonna actually shoot the bounty. 323 00:17:18,622 --> 00:17:20,916 And he took him out. 324 00:17:21,458 --> 00:17:24,127 And he wasn't...he didn't really have a personality. 325 00:17:24,211 --> 00:17:29,716 And Mando hated droids because of what he had experienced. 326 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,554 And then this specific droid is really bad. 327 00:17:33,637 --> 00:17:37,140 And then, what could you do to redeem that thing? 328 00:17:37,224 --> 00:17:42,145 And part of it was set up by this beautiful, lyrical prologue of... 329 00:17:42,229 --> 00:17:44,189 And it's sort of silly, but it's also, 330 00:17:44,273 --> 00:17:47,276 that kinda makes it, to me, when it's right on that edge, 331 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,403 I find it really compelling. 332 00:17:49,486 --> 00:17:51,034 And I love how he's cradling it... 333 00:17:51,124 --> 00:17:51,864 Yeah. 334 00:17:51,947 --> 00:17:55,951 And the speech that Nick Nolte gives about how he found him 335 00:17:56,034 --> 00:17:59,955 and he nursed him back to health, and taught him the ways of this and that. 336 00:18:00,038 --> 00:18:02,249 And you see all the things you shot that... 337 00:18:02,332 --> 00:18:03,542 And the camera's flowing 338 00:18:03,625 --> 00:18:05,370 from one to the next... 339 00:18:05,460 --> 00:18:06,211 Very poetic and different. 340 00:18:06,295 --> 00:18:09,131 His animation's great. We've been working so long on that stuff, 341 00:18:09,214 --> 00:18:11,341 just to get it right to fit that tone. 342 00:18:11,425 --> 00:18:13,260 And then finally he comes out of it, 343 00:18:13,343 --> 00:18:16,471 and everybody's won over, but Mando doesn't know what to think. 344 00:18:16,555 --> 00:18:19,474 And it's not till the end when you, you know, 345 00:18:19,558 --> 00:18:22,603 make that act of self-sacrifice. He doesn't want you to go. 346 00:18:22,686 --> 00:18:26,899 So that whole flip, to earn that over the course of two episodes, 347 00:18:26,982 --> 00:18:29,484 and take that character, it gives Mando an arc. 348 00:18:29,568 --> 00:18:31,153 And it also gives IG an arc. 349 00:18:31,236 --> 00:18:34,615 So you're taking all these characters that are fun and cool, 350 00:18:34,698 --> 00:18:37,242 and, you know, action movie, shoot-'em-up, 351 00:18:37,326 --> 00:18:40,204 and then it turns into something with a heart to it. 352 00:18:40,287 --> 00:18:42,539 That's part of what makes a Western also, 353 00:18:42,623 --> 00:18:45,250 that there's a deep emotion running through it, 354 00:18:45,334 --> 00:18:49,880 even though you think it's about the shootouts in the O.K. Corral, 355 00:18:49,963 --> 00:18:52,132 and jumping from the horse to the wagon, 356 00:18:52,216 --> 00:18:54,801 but really it's about humanity. 357 00:18:54,885 --> 00:18:57,225 And you capture it with two not-human characters. 358 00:18:57,315 --> 00:18:58,055 Yeah. 359 00:18:58,138 --> 00:18:59,435 And you kill 'em both, Jon. 360 00:18:59,525 --> 00:19:00,265 Yeah. 361 00:19:01,433 --> 00:19:02,175 That's very true. 362 00:19:02,945 --> 00:19:03,685 That's true. 363 00:19:03,769 --> 00:19:04,515 Poor Ugnaught. 364 00:19:05,198 --> 00:19:05,938 That's part of it, too. 365 00:19:06,021 --> 00:19:08,524 That's part of it. If you don't, that doesn't matter. 366 00:19:17,533 --> 00:19:20,452 This is an extension of what mythology is, 367 00:19:20,536 --> 00:19:24,915 which is you're telling stories to the generation that's coming of age, 368 00:19:24,998 --> 00:19:28,752 to teach them the lessons of life through entertainment. 369 00:19:28,836 --> 00:19:31,004 In our culture, you do it through movies. 370 00:19:31,713 --> 00:19:34,925 Size matters not. Look at me. 371 00:19:35,008 --> 00:19:36,885 Judge me by my size, do you? 372 00:19:36,969 --> 00:19:38,387 At first, you kind of say it 373 00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:41,265 'cause that's what the filmmakers you look up to say. 374 00:19:41,348 --> 00:19:45,227 But the more you learn about them, you realize that it's really powerful. 375 00:19:45,310 --> 00:19:48,355 Story is still important, and story with progression, 376 00:19:48,438 --> 00:19:52,818 and the idea of sacrifice and perseverance and evolution through challenge. 377 00:19:52,901 --> 00:19:56,655 And all of the little specificities that come along with it. 378 00:19:56,738 --> 00:20:00,742 When one chooses to walk the Way of the Mandalore, 379 00:20:00,826 --> 00:20:03,078 you are both hunter and prey. 380 00:20:03,161 --> 00:20:07,666 I guess inside of all of us, there's that hero that's on that journey. 381 00:20:09,376 --> 00:20:12,713 And in search of and the connection to father, 382 00:20:12,796 --> 00:20:16,758 and to the father at large, the greater father, you know. 383 00:20:16,842 --> 00:20:19,803 The connection to all that is and how we access that 384 00:20:19,887 --> 00:20:22,222 and how we utilize that, 385 00:20:22,306 --> 00:20:26,268 and ultimately how that informs us in how we continue our journey 386 00:20:26,351 --> 00:20:31,315 as a result of that information, and sometimes how we fight against it. 387 00:20:31,398 --> 00:20:34,776 And that very fight is the thing that creates a kind of conflict in us 388 00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:38,280 that doesn't allow us to continue the journey. 389 00:20:38,363 --> 00:20:40,449 I can't kill my own father. 390 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,039 Then the Emperor has already won. 391 00:20:48,248 --> 00:20:50,375 You were our only hope. 392 00:20:50,459 --> 00:20:53,420 It's kind of remarkable that a creative force 393 00:20:53,504 --> 00:20:58,926 has the foresight and the understanding of something that I didn't quite get, 394 00:20:59,009 --> 00:21:01,136 you know, when I was in my early 20s. 395 00:21:01,220 --> 00:21:05,265 I think I was in search of something that already existed, 396 00:21:05,349 --> 00:21:11,647 but for many of us, I guess, the more we studied or grew, 397 00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:14,191 or became maybe a little more evolved, 398 00:21:14,274 --> 00:21:19,154 we could then relate to what George Lucas was saying in a movie. 399 00:21:19,238 --> 00:21:22,699 That was about so much more than what that movie appeared to be about. 400 00:21:22,783 --> 00:21:25,118 I'll not leave you here. I've got to save you. 401 00:21:25,953 --> 00:21:28,664 You already have. 402 00:21:32,626 --> 00:21:34,545 Prequels were almost an impossible task. 403 00:21:34,628 --> 00:21:38,590 How do you tell a story we've all grown up with, imagining who Anakin Skywalker was? 404 00:21:38,674 --> 00:21:42,427 You saw things in Phantom Menace that you just imagined, like the Jedi council, 405 00:21:42,511 --> 00:21:45,848 and none of it really was what I had expected, 406 00:21:45,931 --> 00:21:48,684 but I know now that that's just how creative George is. 407 00:21:48,767 --> 00:21:51,395 He just sees it differently, and he's laying it down. 408 00:21:51,478 --> 00:21:53,188 I love the fight with Darth Maul, 409 00:21:53,272 --> 00:21:57,067 not because it's a lightsaber fight, but because George is so good 410 00:21:57,150 --> 00:21:59,361 at crafting why that fight's important... 411 00:21:59,444 --> 00:22:00,571 - Mmm. - Every time. 412 00:22:00,654 --> 00:22:02,364 Like, the Obi-Wan-Darth Vader fight 413 00:22:02,447 --> 00:22:06,743 isn't the most wonderfully staged combat that you're ever going to see, 414 00:22:06,827 --> 00:22:10,497 but there's so much at stake. It's so meaningful when Obi-Wan dies, 415 00:22:10,581 --> 00:22:12,207 that we all feel like Luke. 416 00:22:12,291 --> 00:22:13,500 In Phantom Menace, 417 00:22:13,584 --> 00:22:17,296 you see these two Jedi in their prime fight this evil villain. 418 00:22:17,379 --> 00:22:21,008 Maul couldn't be more obviously the villain. He's designed to look evil. 419 00:22:21,091 --> 00:22:26,138 And he is evil, and he expresses that from his face to the type of lightsaber he fights with. 420 00:22:26,221 --> 00:22:28,932 What's at stake is how Anakin is gonna turn out 421 00:22:29,016 --> 00:22:30,976 'cause Qui-Gon is different from other Jedi, 422 00:22:31,059 --> 00:22:32,769 you get that in the movie. 423 00:22:32,853 --> 00:22:36,148 Qui-Gon is fighting because he knows he's the father that Anakin needs. 424 00:22:36,231 --> 00:22:40,277 Qui-Gon hasn't given up on the fact that Jedi are supposed to actually care 425 00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,738 and love, and that that's not a bad thing. 426 00:22:42,821 --> 00:22:46,158 The rest of the Jedi are so detached and they've become so political 427 00:22:46,241 --> 00:22:47,659 that they've lost their way. 428 00:22:47,743 --> 00:22:49,870 And Yoda starts to see that in the second film. 429 00:22:49,953 --> 00:22:51,622 But Qui-Gon is ahead of them all. 430 00:22:51,705 --> 00:22:54,917 That's why he's not part of the council, so he's fighting for Anakin. 431 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,377 So it's the Duel of the Fates. The fate of this child. 432 00:22:57,461 --> 00:23:00,547 And depending on how this fight goes, Anakin is gonna... 433 00:23:00,631 --> 00:23:03,842 His life will be dramatically different. So Qui-Gon loses, of course. 434 00:23:06,011 --> 00:23:07,804 The father figure... 435 00:23:07,888 --> 00:23:09,389 'Cause he knew what it meant 436 00:23:09,473 --> 00:23:12,309 to take this kid away from his mother when he had an attachment, 437 00:23:12,392 --> 00:23:14,061 and he's left with Obi-Wan. 438 00:23:14,144 --> 00:23:19,066 Obi-Wan trains Anakin at first out of a promise he makes to Qui-Gon, 439 00:23:19,149 --> 00:23:21,026 not because he cares about him. 440 00:23:21,109 --> 00:23:23,445 When they find Anakin on Tatooine, he says, 441 00:23:23,529 --> 00:23:25,781 "I feel like we've found another useless lifeform". 442 00:23:25,864 --> 00:23:27,866 He's comparing Anakin to Jar Jar. 443 00:23:29,076 --> 00:23:32,329 And he's saying, "This is a waste of time. Why are we doing this"? 444 00:23:32,412 --> 00:23:36,250 Why do you see importance in these creatures like Jar Jar Binks 445 00:23:36,333 --> 00:23:39,503 and this 10-year-old boy? This is useless. 446 00:23:39,586 --> 00:23:44,591 So he's a brother to Anakin, eventually, but he's not a father figure. 447 00:23:44,675 --> 00:23:48,679 That's a failing for Anakin. He doesn't have the family that he needs. 448 00:23:48,762 --> 00:23:50,681 He loses his mother in the next film. 449 00:23:50,764 --> 00:23:53,934 He fails on this promise he made, "Mother, I will come back and save you". 450 00:23:54,017 --> 00:23:56,645 So he's left completely vulnerable. 451 00:23:56,728 --> 00:23:59,147 And Star Wars ultimately is about family. 452 00:23:59,231 --> 00:24:02,609 So that moment in that movie, which a lot of people diminish as, 453 00:24:02,693 --> 00:24:04,403 "Oh, this is a cool lightsaber fight". 454 00:24:04,486 --> 00:24:08,490 But it's everything that the entire three films of the prequels hangs on, 455 00:24:08,574 --> 00:24:12,077 is that one particular fight. And Maul serves his purpose, 456 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,247 and, at that point, died before George made me bring him back. 457 00:24:15,330 --> 00:24:18,709 But he died, showing you how the Emperor is completely self-serving. 458 00:24:18,792 --> 00:24:22,629 He doesn't care, he's using people, and now he's gonna use this child. 459 00:24:22,713 --> 00:24:26,258 That falls all the way through to the line which terrified me as a kid, 460 00:24:26,341 --> 00:24:30,345 when the Emperor tells Luke, "You, like your father, are now mine". 461 00:24:30,429 --> 00:24:32,347 And the idea, when I was a little kid, 462 00:24:32,431 --> 00:24:36,935 watching that movie of some evil person possessing my father, 463 00:24:37,019 --> 00:24:40,439 making him do things or making him be evil was terrifying. 464 00:24:40,522 --> 00:24:42,649 That was like a thought that was horrible. 465 00:24:42,733 --> 00:24:44,776 It's amazing when you watch Return of the Jedi 466 00:24:44,860 --> 00:24:48,322 that Luke has never done anything that indicates bad character. 467 00:24:48,405 --> 00:24:51,658 He has a tendency to be dark and people wanted Anakin, 468 00:24:51,742 --> 00:24:53,577 "He should have been darker as a character". 469 00:24:53,660 --> 00:24:57,706 It's not true at all. I believed Luke would turn to the dark side 470 00:24:57,789 --> 00:25:00,542 in Return of the Jedi, I believe that was on the table. 471 00:25:00,626 --> 00:25:03,170 I believed that he would kill the Emperor. 472 00:25:03,253 --> 00:25:07,508 The way George arranges the story, I knew that was the wrong thing to do. 473 00:25:07,591 --> 00:25:11,720 When he's saying, you know, "You want your weapon", 474 00:25:11,803 --> 00:25:13,555 "Strike me down. I am defenseless", 475 00:25:13,639 --> 00:25:16,266 he wants him to give in to his anger and his hate, 476 00:25:16,350 --> 00:25:19,561 and the fear, the structure George laid out in all the movies, 477 00:25:19,645 --> 00:25:21,813 is coming to fruition now, 478 00:25:21,897 --> 00:25:26,026 and the only thing that's gonna save him is not his connection to the Force, 479 00:25:26,109 --> 00:25:27,861 it's not the powers he's learned. 480 00:25:27,945 --> 00:25:30,239 It's not all these things that are an advantage, 481 00:25:30,322 --> 00:25:32,032 that's gotten him to the table. 482 00:25:32,115 --> 00:25:34,826 But what saves Luke is his ability to look at all that 483 00:25:34,910 --> 00:25:36,912 and look at his father and say, "No, 484 00:25:36,995 --> 00:25:39,957 "I'm gonna throw away this weapon. I'm not gonna do that. 485 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,751 "I'm gonna let that go and be selfless". 486 00:25:42,835 --> 00:25:45,546 And he says, "I am a Jedi like my father before me". 487 00:25:45,629 --> 00:25:48,090 But what he's really saying, and why we connect... 488 00:25:48,173 --> 00:25:50,592 I connect to it 'cause he's saying, "I love my father 489 00:25:50,676 --> 00:25:54,054 "and there's nothing you can do that's gonna change that". 490 00:25:54,638 --> 00:25:56,807 The Emperor can't understand that connection. 491 00:25:56,890 --> 00:25:59,142 "Why won't you take from the power of the galaxy? 492 00:25:59,226 --> 00:26:00,352 "Why won't you take this?" 493 00:26:00,435 --> 00:26:04,314 And Anakin, in that moment, has to be the father that he's never had. 494 00:26:04,398 --> 00:26:08,777 He has to give up all the power in the galaxy and save his son. 495 00:26:08,861 --> 00:26:12,531 And that's the selfless act that he does in return for his son. 496 00:26:12,614 --> 00:26:15,158 And that's what saves him in turn... 497 00:26:15,242 --> 00:26:17,244 Son saves the father, the father saves the son 498 00:26:17,327 --> 00:26:18,704 and it works out perfectly, 499 00:26:18,787 --> 00:26:22,332 and I draw that line all the way from The Phantom Menace to Jedi. 500 00:26:22,416 --> 00:26:23,959 That's the story of Star Wars. 501 00:26:24,042 --> 00:26:25,544 So when he pops the helmet... 502 00:26:25,627 --> 00:26:28,630 When he pops the helmet off, and that moment was part of the... 503 00:26:28,714 --> 00:26:29,840 - Yeah... - Fated arc? 504 00:26:29,923 --> 00:26:34,094 It's all part of the fated arc and why it works and why we care. 505 00:26:34,178 --> 00:26:37,139 It's not about X-wings, it's not all about all these... 506 00:26:37,222 --> 00:26:41,226 The things we we decorate Star Wars in. It's important, it's part of the genius. 507 00:26:41,310 --> 00:26:44,188 But we soulfully react, like... 508 00:26:44,688 --> 00:26:48,066 We don't just want an action movie, we want to feel uplifted. 509 00:26:48,150 --> 00:26:52,571 And Star Wars is an adventure that makes you feel good, you know? 510 00:26:52,654 --> 00:26:56,783 It makes me feel like, "Wow, I want to be a part of that". 511 00:26:56,867 --> 00:26:59,578 So that's what I always go back to with Star Wars, 512 00:26:59,661 --> 00:27:03,040 is this selfless act and this family dynamic, 513 00:27:03,123 --> 00:27:05,876 which is so important to George, 514 00:27:05,959 --> 00:27:08,128 so important to the foundation of Star Wars. 515 00:27:08,212 --> 00:27:10,339 That's in us, and what I like about it is, 516 00:27:10,422 --> 00:27:12,883 it is saying there's a lot of hope out there, 517 00:27:12,966 --> 00:27:15,219 that we fundamentally want to be good people, 518 00:27:15,302 --> 00:27:17,596 that we can be driven to do terrible things, 519 00:27:17,679 --> 00:27:21,475 but that we can persevere through selfless action. 520 00:27:21,558 --> 00:27:25,020 So George has this hopeful story, 521 00:27:25,103 --> 00:27:28,815 and it's something that he's reiterated most times I've seen him, 522 00:27:28,899 --> 00:27:32,444 you know, after we've been making things without him is, 523 00:27:32,528 --> 00:27:34,571 "Remember to make these stories hopeful. 524 00:27:35,113 --> 00:27:38,408 "Remember to give that to kids because they really need it". 525 00:27:38,492 --> 00:27:40,869 And so that's just something to keep in mind. 526 00:27:40,953 --> 00:27:42,123 Did I bring us down? Or did I lift us up? 527 00:27:42,213 --> 00:27:42,953 Yeah. 528 00:27:42,996 --> 00:27:45,002 Beautiful, that was beautiful. 529 00:27:45,092 --> 00:27:45,832 I think we're done. 530 00:27:48,085 --> 00:27:48,798 It's hopeful for me. 531 00:27:48,888 --> 00:27:49,628 Yeah.