(police sirens blaring)
(spencer speaking)
(margaret speaking)
(car revving)
(spencer speaking)
(margaret speaking)
(spencer speaking)
-(horn blaring) -(glass shattering)
Spencer: Margaret anticipates that the turn is coming.
Veronica fell over on top of her,
She couldn't get her off.
And this caused margaret to lose control,
And hit an 18 -wheeler.
Margaret has been charged with murder
Because she was found with xanax in her system.
The state's allegation is that that is what caused the accident.
Margaret: I feel like my life is ended.
You get up, and you feel like you've been kicked back down,
Because of this.
It's been a long journey.
It's time for it to be over.
Spencer: My name is spencer hodnett. I'm a criminal defense attorney,
And my client is margaret culp.
Margaret's been charged with murder,
Which has a maximum sentence of life in prison.
Her being sentenced to prison for the rest of her life,
I think, would be a grave injustice.
Back in September of 2015,
Margaret and her good friend, veronica ott,
Had dinner in the birmingham, alabama area.
Veronica had alcohol at dinner and margaret did not,
So margaret says, for that reason,
They both decided that it was best
For margaret to drive veronica's car back.
On the drive home, veronica starts feeling ill.
I think that margaret misjudges her approach to a junction.
She's in the wrong lane, veronica falls on top of her,
And she is unable to get veronica off her,
And get out of the wrong lane.
This caused margaret...
...To hit an 18-wheeler.
Unfortunately, veronica died from multiple blunt force injuries.
Margaret goes on with life,
Even though she's devastated by
The death of her very good friend, veronica.
And then, out of the blue,
Over 18 months later,
She gets charged with the murder of veronica.
The reason why margaret was charged with murder,
In the case according to the prosecution,
Was that she had the sedative xanax in her system.
The prosecution claimed that,
Being under the influence of xanax, margaret was impaired,
And that created a grave risk of death.
According to margaret, she had taken xanax
But she had not taken her full dose
For that day, that she had been prescribed.
The defense's position is that this is a tragic accident.
Margaret's recollection was that
Veronica was not wearing her seat belt.
Veronica fell over on her,
And that caused the wreck.
And we believe that we are gonna be able to show that at trial.
Margaret is somebody I've grown to care a lot about.
She is not a murderer.
She was in a terrible accident that killed her best friend.
And I intend for us to show this.
(melancholy music playing)
Margaret: When I think about the case,
I feel like my life is ended.
I knew veronica for over 20 years.
She was like a second daughter.
She was funny, happy-go-lucky.
Veronica always wanted children,
To be married, have a family.
She never got that.
I've wished, so many times, that it would have been me and not her.
I could never imagine that I would be
Someone that was charged with murdering anything or anyone.
If we'd seen a little animal here, dying, I couldn't kill it.
(sniffs) much less a human that I loved.
Not to have veronica in my life is a very large void.
I will miss her till I take my last breath.
Justice for me right now would be the truth.
This all being worked out and over. Freed from it.
The thought of, uh, grandkids, my daughter, my mother,
Hearing you're guilty...
(sniffs) I can't stand the thought of that.
And I know I wouldn't make it.
(sniffs)
Spencer: I have the statute pulled up right here.
And it's a good idea for you to know, specifically, what they're accusing you of.
"margaret ann culp did,
"under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to human life,
"recklessly engage in conduct
"which created a grave risk of death to a person other than herself,
"and thereby caused the death of another person."
So, that's what they're saying.
That's not what happened, though.
Yeah. Well, I don't think what you did
Is close to manifesting extreme indifference to human life.
That's one of the reasons why
Your case is,
-To me, such... -So bizarre.
-Crazy. -Well, wrong.
It's wrong, I believe.
I agree.
If she died from not having her seat belt on,
Who's to blame for her not putting her seat belt on?
So, that's something for us to explore further.
The sentencing part of this
Is, "murder is a class a felony."
The punishment for murder, it would be 10 to life.
-And that's if you have... -Ten years to life?
Spencer: Ten years to life.
Margaret: I wouldn't live that long.
This journey has been hell.
And I'm ready for it to end.
(sniffs)
I love you, I'm getting out of here.
I love you, too, margaret.
(margaret speaking)
(sniffs)
-Bye, rena. -Rena: Bye.
-I love you. Pray for me. -Rena: I will.
(sighs)
(sniffs)
Spencer: To go after a woman for having a car wreck,
And then charging her with murder for the best friend,
I think it's psychologically cruel and I think it's wrong.
The system lends itself to going heavy after the poor,
Because the poor don't have the resources to defend themselves.
It's much easier
To convict people who can't fight back.
So, my strategy is to just remind the jury,
Even though she took the xanax,
The cause of the wreck was that veronica fell on my client,
And that it was a horrible accident.
That sentence was new information that I just discovered today.
I'm scared.
It's not justice.
Why don't they go out here,
And arrest some of these people that are...
Are really murdering people, and...
(voice faltering) it's wrong. It's so wrong.
Spencer: I'm going to the crash scene
Because I need to show that margaret's claim
About veronica falling over on her
Being what caused the wreck
Is what happened.
(softly) perfect.
Okay.
I think this specific spot is where the wreck happened.
It would be right before that junction.
That makes sense 'cause there is a railing on both sides.
According to law enforcement,
The truck was getting up steam down by the junction.
Margaret would have been wanting to take a left.
I think she anticipates that the turn is coming,
She did not...
...You know, um, judge it correctly.
She mistakes the on ramp for the exit,
And starts to change lanes too early.
Therefore, she was on the wrong side of the road.
Veronica fell over on top of her, she could not get her off,
Which causes her to stay in the wrong lane.
Bam, there's the wreck.
What margaret needed was to not be
Contradicted by the topography
Or where the wreck happened.
I feel like this kind of helps her story,
And in no way hurts her story.
Jordan: I don't know what we're gonna do if it gets any hotter.
Margaret: Are you burning up, darling?
-Yeah. -Oh.
Jordan: I don't know what I would do if you had to go back to prison.
Margaret: It's gonna be okay.
(sniffs)
Jordan: She was living with my mom before she came here.
But they argue a lot, so...
I guess I'm easier to live with.
It's been a living hell for her and the family since it started.
It really has affected her with not having her own life.
She lived in the same place,
Like, my whole childhood, so...
It's... It's sad to see her not have her independence anymore.
Margaret: Sometimes, I feel like I'm on jordan's toes,
Being here.
I know it's interfering with her life,
Having me around all the time.
But I don't know what I would do without her.
Jordan: I think that she is an amazing granny, and I love her.
She could possibly be going to prison for the rest of her life.
And the thought of her, at her age,
To be put in there and isolated...
I just don't see how she could last very long.
She didn't do well when she was in there before.
She doesn't like talking about it, and I don't... (sniffs)
I don't wanna
Ask her about it.
Come on.
I pray to god
That somehow, someway, this will be dismissed.
This is interesting.
When you get a toxicological report
From the department of forensic sciences,
They test for a bunch of drugs.
And they're all listed here.
And this is the list of things that she came up positive for.
She has 40 nanograms per milliliter of xanax,
And trace amounts of morphine and oxycodone.
So, they're saying that
This combination, somehow,
Of tiny, trace amounts of morphine,
Tiny, trace amounts of oxycodone,
And just a therapeutic dose of xanax
Created the grave risk of death.
But I think that it would not have had any impact
On whether she was impaired or not.
They have to prove that her taking the xanax,
She would know she would be impaired
To the point of likely killing somebody.
But because of the morphine and oxycodone,
I'm very worried about it affecting the way that they decide the case.
If I'm gonna be sitting here,
Discussing levels of impairment and that kind of thing,
I'm losing.
(suspenseful music playing)
Spencer: Margaret. Margaret: Yeah.
Spencer: Jordan. Hey, guys. How you feeling, margaret?
Hello, spencer.
Not so well.
Spencer: I think that the oxycodone and morphine
Were put in the indictment
To influence the jury and make them think that
Margaret is some kind of drug addict,
Responsible for murdering her friend.
And I believe that these should be excluded at trial,
Because there were only trace amounts in her system.
So this is not something that could have impaired her.
The xanax is going to be a problem.
So knowing how long margaret has been on xanax, is extremely important.
If she was just prescribed this a couple of months before the accident,
Then that's a lot different than if she had been on it for a while
And had built up a tolerance.
Okay, margaret, so,
What I need to talk to you about today
Is your prescriptions of xanax.
I think the whole question with any of this
Is whether or not xanax made it where you're too impaired to drive.
So, when was the first time that you were prescribed xanax?
Margaret: I've probably been on xanax for
At least 30 years.
Jordan: Since before I was born,
I've known that she's had a prescription for xanax.
The very first time you got prescribed anxiety medicine
Was when you miscarried, was it not?
When I had my stillborn.
-I was 19. -Spencer: Okay.
I'm sorry.
Margaret: And there was deaths in my family.
Spencer: Okay, so what deaths in your family got you prescribed xanax?
Jordan: Her husband died.
Spencer: Okay, your husband?
Margaret: We were about to get married.
Spencer: So he was your fiance? Okay.
And how did he die?
Margaret: He committed suicide.
Spencer: How did he commit suicide?
Put a 9mm to his chest...
...And blew his (bleep) away.
Spencer: Who found him?
I did.
Why does this matter? I'm sorry, like, how is this
-Helping? -Spencer: Why does it matter?
Because if I cross-examine somebody about something
And I don't know what it is, I'll look ignorant.
Jordan: But this doesn't...
-It's very important. -Jordan:...Have to do
With anything.
Okay. So...
Could you please go out of the office while I ask her these questions?
-They're important to me. -Jordan: Okay.
And this is not helpful.
Jordan: Okay.
Spencer: Margaret, the reason why I need to know this
Is because I have to know what the story is behind this fiance.
I have to set the stage to why it is
That you've chronically used anti-anxiety medication, right?
But you don't need to talk about it anymore, if you don't want to.
Spencer: I'm really sorry.
(sniffs)
I live with this every day.
I understand.
I'm sorry.
(sniffs)
-I need to go. -Yes.
Jordan: You good? Margaret: Uh-huh.
Jordan: You okay?
I'd like to go ahead and get her home.
Spencer: Okay.
That was a little bit more...
...Emotional than even I thought it was going to be.
Jordan thought I was too specific
About the situation with the fiance.
But the questions had to be asked.
The fact that she has been on xanax for 30 years is huge,
Because the amount that margaret had in her system
Would not affect her
Nearly to the degree of somebody who had never taken xanax before.
Her driving wasn't impaired because of the xanax.
Nothing was affected, other than
Making life manageable for her.
And that I feel like I can spell out to the jury pretty easily.
Today, I'm gonna go see a surgeon named dr. Kirk withrow.
The best case scenario today is that
The doctor looks at the injuries,
And thinks that they corroborate margaret's story
That the victim fell over on margaret
Because she didn't have her seat belt on.
I mean, that's... That's like a golden ticket.
How you doing?
What I'm looking for is basically just the
Injuries on this autopsy,
To, you know, make sure that I know exactly what they are.
So, can you pull that up?
-Dr. Withrow: Yeah. -And I'm gonna pull it up
-At my end. -Dr. Withrow: Absolutely.
In looking at the summary of the external examination,
They start with multiple blunt force injuries.
You have a compound tibia-fibula fracture,
So the lower leg.
Um, there's a femur fracture,
Which, the femur, the upper leg...
It's essentially the strongest bone in the body,
So that's a serious high velocity injury.
And then multiple chest injuries.
Um, the sternum, or the breastbone, was fractured.
-Yes. -Dr. Withrow: Uh,
They found an injury to the aorta.
An aortic injury like that has a very low survivability rate.
Going on, they found, um,
You know, the spleen had a rupture.
So again, also, you know, an impact-type injury.
The gear shift, could that be the object?
'cause it's... I'm pretty sure it's, like, right there...
-Dr. Withrow: For sure. -...On the console.
It's right next to the spleen. I mean, it's on that, you know...
If you're in the passenger seat...
-Spencer: Oh, yeah, yeah. -...You know,
You fall over on it, and it hits you here, I mean, definitely, it could.
The head injuries. You know, there was a sphenoid bone injury,
-Um... -What is a sphenoid bone?
Basically a skull-base fracture that...
Epidural hematoma. So, the blood around the brain, again,
Is an indicator of acceleration, deceleration.
So, all of that, in kind of, in total, I think,
You don't get with a seat belt.
To have one person with that degree of injury
And the other with very little injury,
You know, pretty well speaks to what was different between them.
It's a seat belt.
Spencer: The meeting with kirk is easily
The best thing that's happened from a defense standpoint in this case.
He was able to look at the injury on her body
And conclude that she was not buckled.
And she was slumped over and hit something low.
And that is what killed her.
She would still be alive if she had her seat belt on.
That ought to be taken into consideration by the jury.
(doorbell rings)
Spencer: Hey, guys, hey, margaret.
-How are you, spencer? -Spencer: Good.
I love you.
Spencer: The good thing about a defendant taking the stand
Is if they come off well, then they can kind of
Make up for some other things in the case, that aren't perfect.
And if the jury like and trust the defendant that's on the stand,
Then that's, I mean, that's huge.
But in order for me to put margaret on the stand,
I need to have absolutely certainty that
She can recall the events with clarity.
What actually happened that night...
I wanted to, kind of, like, sequentially go through
-Everything. -Mm-hmm.
So, what is it that made you guys plan to go out to eat?
She had a lot going on in her life, so did I.
Spencer: What was going on in her life?
-Some family problems. -Spencer: Okay.
And so, let's say you eat and everything,
And it's, like, 10:00 when you left?
-Margaret: I don't know. -Okay, 9:30, 10:00.
And then you got to the gas station to get what?
Margaret: Drinks and cigarettes.
Are drinks alcoholic drinks
-Or, like, sodas? -Margaret: Sodas.
Spencer: Okay. And what happened next?
We kind of rode around.
Oh, so you guys just drove around?
Okay. And then she starts feeling bad so you start to drive her home?
Margaret: She broke out in a cold sweat.
Spencer: And it was on highway 5 that she fell on you,
And you lost control,
And the wreck occurred, right?
Margaret: Don't ask me where it happened, 'cause I don't know.
Spencer: Do you remember her falling on you?
Margaret: No.
I don't remember the wreck.
Okay.
I thought her falling over on you is when you lost control.
It could be. I don't remember, though, spencer.
I don't remember anything about the wreck, period.
Okay. Um...
What you're talking about right now is extremely unhelpful for you.
I don't think you understand
What you're saying, and how that is... Doesn't make sense.
-And it's not what... -(jordan speaking)
Spencer: You had told me in the beginning,
She fell on you, you couldn't get her off you.
I think that you're confused about everything that went on.
I don't think margaret's memory is reliable in details really, at all.
-Bye, guys. -Margaret: Bye, I love you.
I love you, margaret.
She seemed confused on certain areas.
The moment that somebody seems dishonest,
Their testimony is discounted, and that's it.
You know, you can't unring that bell.
There might be testimony about the nature of the relationship between
The victim and margaret
That jordan would know to be true or untrue.
So, she's almost like a proxy for margaret.
But there was a line of questioning
That I had to ask margaret
And jordan took exception to it,
So I wanted to see how it is I think she's gonna be under cross-examination.
How are you doing?
-I'm doing okay. -Spencer: Okay.
We're going to go over what it is I think you can do
For your granny.
I am not going to put margaret on the stand because of the unreliability of her memory.
Okay.
Spencer: So, I need somebody who would be familiar with
The specific relationship between
The victim, veronica lynn ott, and your granny.
So, if somebody testifies,
"I don't even know why veronica was with margaret."
-Mm-hmm -spencer: "she hated her.
"they didn't even get along."
What... For whatever reason.
-Yeah. -Spencer: I would need you
To testify as, like,
-"no, that's not true." -okay.
You know? "this was my granny's best friend."
Okay. She was granny's next door neighbor.
Like, it was that close. And for years they lived that close.
She didn't have a whole lot of friends
Because she rarely got out of the house.
But from the moment I was born, I feel like I had always...
They had always been around each other
And always been happy and friendly.
Granny would not hurt anything. She doesn't have it in her.
And they were both just two sweet ladies.
-I don't know. (laughs) -spencer: Yeah.
All right. So, tell me your feelings on being a witness,
Going on the witness stand, and,
You know, how you feel about that, just in general.
When you said, "how do you feel about being a witness?"
I felt, like, not that bad.
And then you said, "how do you feel about getting on the stand?"
And I was like, "ooh." (chuckles nervously)
Um, I'm nervous.
I worry, too, like, that if I giggle, and I laugh,
In nervous or uncomfortable situations.
I don't wanna be up here and them ask me a serious question,
And I, you know, laugh at 'em.
And them say, "oh, this lady's not credible."
But I will do it. I'll do whatever you need me to do.
-(sighs) -spencer: Okay.
That is extraordinarily helpful.
The jordan interview went really well.
When jordan says something to me, I believe it.
But must most people don't understand just how difficult it is,
When they've never taken the witness stand before.
So, I'm just worried about how jordan might not be able to withstand the pressure
Of the cross-examination by the prosecution.
Today is the pretrial date, and I need to pretty much
Hammer out what it is that's important that you don't want in the trial.
The best case scenario today would be
That the prosecutor agrees to not mention
Any of the other drugs, other than the xanax.
If I can't get those thrown out,
Then I'm going to have lost the jury,
Just as soon as the indictment's read.
Margaret: I don't know what's gonna happen today.
This has been going on for approximately seven years.
I feel very anxious as I'm going in to pretrial.
Looking so forward for this to be done and over.
Spencer: I was offered by the prosecutor
A misdemeanor negligence charge with no jail time.
(bleeping)
The law enforcement officer on the case died.
He died of covid.
I mean, they can try the case without him.
But it still is a pretty big kick to the prosecutor's case.
And I think that kind of spurred the prosecutor to offer you...
...Uh, a misdemeanor with no jail time.
I'm trying not to get my hopes up.
Not now.
I haven't heard it out of the judge's mouth.
Spencer: With the offer we got today
She would only be facing one minor misdemeanor
For negligent homicide. So, no jail time.
The chances of
The victim, veronica ott's father,
Agreeing to this plea agreement,
I think probably are 50-50.
Margaret... She's still facing
The rest of her adult life
In deplorable conditions in a cage.
The race is not over.
Margaret: Today is the big day.
I'm very anxious, very nervous, scared.
It's been seven to eight years that...
...This has been over my head. My life has been at a stop.
And...
...It's been very, very hard.
I'm so thankful for you darling, for being with me through all this.
You got an eye lash.
Margaret: Make a wish.
It's made. (chuckles softly)
If your granny goes to jail
And then to prison,
I don't want you to worry like last time.
And try not to cry.
Spencer: Today is a massive day.
Margaret's life has been absolutely decimated by this case.
The trauma of losing her friend,
And the anxiety of
Every day, not knowing if she's gonna spend the rest of her life in prison.
This has been going on for seven years.
We're either gonna find out that this long nightmare is over,
Or it's really just, kind of, begun.
(suspenseful music playing)
(soft music playing)
Yes, you've done a lot.
I love you.
-(kisses) -okay.
Margaret: It's been a long journey.
It's actually been hell.
-But now, it's over. -It's over.
So...
You know everything was dismissed except for the misdemeanor.
And the misdemeanor is
Something that you have probation, just for two years.
Spencer: There's really not words to describe how I feel right now.
I mean, it's why I became an attorney,
It's why I do what I do.
And I don't know... I'm just, uh...
I'm so happy for margaret.
Margaret: I feel that veronica was with me today.
She's always told me,
"girl, everything's gonna be okay."
And she was right.
I can finally go on with my life.