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[HOST] This is a secret
she told us about you.
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[AUDIENCE GASPING]
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Ay-yay-yay.
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I have something to tell you.
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Um, I've been having an affair
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- for the past five months.
- [AUDIENCE GASPING]
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I get sick and tired
of seeing Uncle Tom here
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sucking up, trying to be a white...
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[ALL SHOUTING]
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Only slightly the worse for the wear.
[CHUCKLES]
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- Today is a shocking true story...
- Gonna be a good show...
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- Are you in fact sleeping with Leo?
- Yes, I am.
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Is this a wig?
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[AUDIENCE SHOUTING]
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If you call her all these names,
why did you marry her?
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'Cause I needed a place to live.
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[AUDIENCE SHOUTING AND LAUGHING]
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- Are you sexually active?
- Mm-hmm.
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[RAPHAEL] Okay, Mom, there's your answer.
You didn't ask, but I did.
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- She's very much a slut.
- [AUDIENCE GASPING]
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[NEWSMAN] Several talk shows
have been under fire...
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These shows are no longer places where
intelligent information is exchanged.
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- [AUDIENCE] Jerry!
- I think our show is addictive.
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I'm really a man.
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[AUDIENCE] Oh!
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The most vulnerable are being exploited
and manipulated.
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[MAN] These people are not
sophisticated enough...
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That's elitist, isn't it?
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What do you mean, they're not
sophisticated? This is America.
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[AUDIENCE SHOUTING]
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It's fun. The adrenaline.
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It's, like, you know, it's so awesome.
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People have gotten so confused
between shame and fame.
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[JONES] You'll find The Jenny Jones Show
to be probably
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the most fun talk show on the air.
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[ANNOUNCER] These guys are
way over the line.
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[JONES] Probably 80 percent of our shows
are either makeovers
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or reunions or secret crush.
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Talk shows are killing the nation.
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This is not wrestling! It's a talk show!
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It's like saying
that refrigerator in the kitchen
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is what's making me fat.
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Well, hello. It's not.
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- [WOMAN] There are no boundaries anymore.
- Reality is reflecting Hollywood.
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[NEWSWOMAN] The former producer says
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the competitive talk show market
could be creating a dangerous environment.
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Hopefully, we've hit the bottom.
I mean, how much worse can it get?
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- [MAN] I think I just shot a man.
- [911 OPERATOR] Okay.
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- [MAN] I'm just turning myself in.
- [911 OPERATOR] Okay.
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[MAN] I just shot this guy!
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[911 OPERATOR] Okay, why did you do that?
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[MAN] Because he played
a very bad fucking thing on me.
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He took me on Jenny Jones.
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[JONES] Let's have Jon come out here
and see who has the crush on him.
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[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
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Guess what?
It's Scott that has the crush on you.
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You lied to me. [LAUGHS]
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[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
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[APPLAUSE]
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Did you have any idea
that he liked you this much?
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Um, no. No.
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[CHUCKLING] No, I did not.
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[NEWSMAN 1] A few days after the taping,
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Jonathan Schmitz showed up
at Scott Amedure's mobile home.
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[NEWSMAN 2] ...killed by two blasts
from a shotgun...
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[NEWSMAN 1] Shot him twice in the chest.
Amedure died on the floor of his home.
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[CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING]
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- [SIREN WAILING]
- [REPORTER] Any... Any regrets, Jon?
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[TENSE MUSIC PLAYS]
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[TYPEWRITER CLACKING]
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[TYPEWRITER BELL DINGS]
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[DISTORTED SOUNDS]
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[BIRDS CHIRPING]
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[KITTEN MEOWS]
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[MAN MEOWS]
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- [KITTEN MEOWS]
- [MAN MEOWS]
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[KITTEN MEOWS]
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[MAN MEOWS]
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[KITTEN MEOWS]
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[MAN MEOWS]
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- [KITTEN MEOWS]
- [MAN MEOWS]
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[MAN] On my brother's
25th anniversary of his death,
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we had a cat have a heart embolism.
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And there really wasn't anything
that we could do about it.
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And then we got lucky and found this one.
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And she's got, like, a little goatee.
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Aw, she's a little sweetheart.
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My name's Frank Amedure,
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and my brother Scott Amedure
was murdered
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after he was on The Jenny Jones Show
back in 1995.
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Now, there's me.
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I'm the oldest.
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W...
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Wayne.
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Mike.
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And that was Scott.
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So Scott was still in diapers
in that picture.
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Scott always wanted to be on TV, in the...
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the limelight.
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This is him with a girl
that played on One Day At a Time.
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I think her name's Julie Cooper.
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[CLEARS THROAT]
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Here's some Army picture.
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I found out that he was gay
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when he was still in the service.
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And, uh, it was never really a big deal.
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Surprisingly, even my dad
didn't have any issues with it.
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And here's Scott showing off his muscles.
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As you know, he was a soldier.
He wasn't, like, a wimpy guy.
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If, um, Jonathan Schmitz would have
came after him without a gun,
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and with a knife or...
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something,
or just a physical confrontation,
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Scott would have whupped his ass
all over the place.
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[CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING]
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[REPORTER] Any... And regrets, Jon?
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[SIREN WAILING]
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[MAN] Jonathan Schmitz
was 24 years old.
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He worked at, uh, a local restaurant
no longer in existence
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called the Fox & Hounds across the street.
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Jonathan and Scott met
through Donna Riley.
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[FEENEY] Donna lived
in an apartment complex
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where Jonathan lived
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and where Scott Amedure's brother lived.
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Scott came over one day
to see his brother,
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and Jonathan was fixing Donna Riley's car,
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her brakes, at the time,
out in the parking lot of this building.
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Scott was quite the handyman.
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He was kind of a homemade electrician.
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He knew how to do stuff like that.
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That's how they met.
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Do you have a secret crush
you'd like to reveal to a same-sex friend?
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Call 312-836-9455.
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[FEENEY] Scott was a big fan
of The Jenny Jones Show.
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It was known from friends of his
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that he watched the show
on a regular basis.
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I think that Scott Amedure
genuinely liked Jonathan,
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and I think that he thought
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this would be a way
to kind of move this thing along.
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[FEENEY] That's how it got started.
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And then the television show
contacted Jonathan.
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[CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING]
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They said, "You've been identified
by someone"
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who has a secret crush on you.
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It could be a man.
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"It could be a woman."
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Um...
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And he would have to come on the show
to find out who the individual was.
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[CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING]
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[MAN] Jonathan Schmitz
had a very gentle soul.
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I mean, he was a real nice,
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sweet, decent guy
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who was manipulated, used, pushed around,
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tormented, and triggered
into doing something terrible.
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[BRASIER] So many of the murder cases
that I cover are cut-and-dried.
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There was none of that here.
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There were so many issues
that I grappled with,
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and to this day,
I still haven't resolved in my mind.
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[NEWSWOMAN] It was the news media
that greeted Jon Schmitz...
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[NEWSMAN 1] Jonathan Schmitz faces
a first-degree murder charge...
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[NEWSMAN 2] Schmitz's parents sobbed
when they heard details of the crime.
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It was a difficult trial, even though,
frankly, as a prosecutor,
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I've never seen a clearer case
of first-degree premeditated murder.
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Last one? Three...
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have requested a...
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This was a big deal
because nobody had committed murder
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as a result of being on a trash talk show.
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[AMEDURE JR.] The methods of the show
were outrageous and immoral,
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but I think Jonathan Schmitz
still committed murder one,
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and he should pay for that crime.
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[LICHTER] Are you responsible yourself,
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or is the person who put you
into that situation responsible?
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[MAN] You cannot kill
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another human being
for words spoken by that human being.
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Embarrassment is not an excuse for murder.
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[WOMAN] In everyday life,
a lot of people will be embarrassed,
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but the law is intended to protect people
from criminal acts,
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not to give people a pass... [CHUCKLES]
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For murdering somebody
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because they have some characteristic
that you don't like about them.
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[JUDGE] All right. He appears
to have pulled the gloves on, counsel.
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In the 1990s, Hollywood figured out
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that the best soap opera is real life.
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This is not an arrangement
or an understanding.
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This is a marriage.
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You know, I'm not sitting here
as some little woman
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standing by my man
like Tammy Wynette.
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Previously private things
were coming out in the news,
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as well as, uh, in entertainment.
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- You want to inform.
- [SIGHS]
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- You also have to entertain.
- Yes.
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You have to draw an audience.
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- Right. Well...
- Every day you have to make this decision.
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[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
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[DONAHUE] They won't watch male strippers
five days a week.
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They watch them from time to time.
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[DONAHUE] Certainly, and you'd better
haul 'em out once in a while
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if you wanna survive in the daytime arena.
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[LICHTER] Every television show
deals with ratings,
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and, uh, if you don't compete well,
you're not gonna be there.
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[ANNOUNCER] Jenny Jones
has something different for your daytime.
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Boy, do I have a show for you.
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[ANNOUNCER] Here's a program
you can relate to.
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- [APPLAUSE]
- [JONES] This is gonna be a good show
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'cause today we're gonna talk
about women and stress.
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[LICHTER] Jenny Jones started out
wanting to be Oprah Winfrey.
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[JONES] Has anybody made this at home?
Done potpourris?
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00:10:20,703 --> 00:10:24,123
You want color. You want texture.
You want smell.
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[LICHTER] But she quickly discovered
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that her show was more popular
as Jerry Springer.
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[JONES] How do you know
this isn't your baby then?
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I just... uh...
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00:10:34,342 --> 00:10:35,968
You lied to me. You're a dog.
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You're a snake. You're conniving.
You're a slut.
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[APPLAUSE]
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00:10:39,221 --> 00:10:41,849
[FEENEY] Jenny Jones, Sally Jessy Raphael,
216
00:10:41,932 --> 00:10:43,559
Ricki Lake, Jerry Springer,
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00:10:43,643 --> 00:10:45,686
Maury Povich, Montel Williams,
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they all had the same type of formats,
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and the term "ambush television"
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referred to television episodes
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that were kept secret
from the participants.
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[LICHTER] These shows function
on emotional drama and catharsis.
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Today we're reuniting couples
who have had one-night stands.
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00:11:02,995 --> 00:11:03,829
Come on out, Garrett.
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00:11:03,913 --> 00:11:05,748
[APPLAUSE]
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00:11:05,831 --> 00:11:08,793
[LICHTER] So you have to get people
who can be manipulated
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00:11:08,876 --> 00:11:11,462
into a situation
where that's what they give out.
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00:11:11,545 --> 00:11:13,506
Two months after the night
we slept together,
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I found out I was pregnant.
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[AUDIENCE GASPING]
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- [JONES] Do you see a resemblance?
- [AUDIENCE] Yes.
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00:11:25,142 --> 00:11:28,062
It's easy to forget
that these are real people
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00:11:28,145 --> 00:11:30,648
with real secrets that are being exposed.
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- [JONES] What does it feel like? Is it...
- [SCOFFS] Scary. I mean, I don't know.
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00:11:35,194 --> 00:11:38,034
You know, what kind of entertainment
is that? But you know what that is.
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That's just, like, the rubberneck effect,
you know,
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00:11:40,449 --> 00:11:43,536
where people are driving down the highway
and there's a real bad accident,
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00:11:43,619 --> 00:11:45,454
everybody wants to look and see blood.
239
00:11:45,955 --> 00:11:48,082
[BURDICK] Sort of
a schadenfreude thing, too,
240
00:11:48,165 --> 00:11:50,126
you know,
watching other people's troubles.
241
00:11:50,209 --> 00:11:54,255
"Eh, our life isn't so bad
when I see these idiots on television."
242
00:11:54,338 --> 00:11:56,382
Kinda makes you feel normal
after you watch that.
243
00:11:56,465 --> 00:11:59,552
People watch. People want
that kind of sensationalism,
244
00:11:59,635 --> 00:12:00,928
that kind of voyeurism.
245
00:12:01,011 --> 00:12:03,597
I don't think Jenny Jones started out
246
00:12:03,681 --> 00:12:08,477
trying to lower the common denominator
of life on television.
247
00:12:08,561 --> 00:12:10,146
I slept with my mother's best friend.
248
00:12:10,229 --> 00:12:12,773
[ANNOUNCER] And you won't believe
what else you'll hear.
249
00:12:12,857 --> 00:12:16,026
She just discovered
that's the way you're a success.
250
00:12:18,654 --> 00:12:20,656
Now, which of these ways would you choose
251
00:12:20,740 --> 00:12:23,325
to reveal your secret crush on someone?
252
00:12:23,409 --> 00:12:25,453
A, would you write that person a letter?
253
00:12:25,995 --> 00:12:29,206
B, would you tell the person in private
in case he rejects you?
254
00:12:29,665 --> 00:12:31,959
Or C, would you tell that person
that you're gay
255
00:12:32,042 --> 00:12:36,213
and you hope he is on national television
in front of millions of people?
256
00:12:36,297 --> 00:12:37,965
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
257
00:12:39,133 --> 00:12:40,718
He knows you're gay, right?
258
00:12:40,801 --> 00:12:43,137
- [SCOTT] Yeah.
- [JONES] Do you know that he is?
259
00:12:43,929 --> 00:12:45,282
- [WOMAN] No.
- Anything's possible.
260
00:12:45,306 --> 00:12:46,306
[LAUGHS]
261
00:12:46,348 --> 00:12:49,602
You hope. You hope. Do you have any reason
to think he is, Donna? I mean...
262
00:12:49,685 --> 00:12:51,896
Um, not really. He, um...
263
00:12:51,979 --> 00:12:55,274
He said that his family
kinda question him on it.
264
00:12:55,357 --> 00:12:57,276
What is it that's so exciting
about him to you?
265
00:12:57,359 --> 00:12:59,904
Um, he's got a cute little hard body.
266
00:12:59,987 --> 00:13:00,905
[AUDIENCE LAUGHS]
267
00:13:00,988 --> 00:13:03,991
Um, you know, one you just wanna pick up
and put in your curio cabinet,
268
00:13:04,074 --> 00:13:05,910
you know, dust him off once in a while.
269
00:13:05,993 --> 00:13:07,203
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
270
00:13:07,286 --> 00:13:09,389
- He's cute.
- [JONES] You wanna physically pick him up?
271
00:13:09,413 --> 00:13:11,207
Oh, he's just a tiny little cute thing.
272
00:13:11,290 --> 00:13:12,792
- He's gorgeous.
- [AUDIENCE LAUGHS]
273
00:13:12,875 --> 00:13:15,377
Well, all right.
Let's see if he really is.
274
00:13:15,461 --> 00:13:17,129
Get the headphones off of Jon,
275
00:13:17,213 --> 00:13:19,924
and let's have Jon come out here
and see who has the crush on him.
276
00:13:20,007 --> 00:13:20,883
Here's Jon.
277
00:13:20,966 --> 00:13:22,218
[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]
278
00:13:28,390 --> 00:13:29,517
[JON LAUGHING]
279
00:13:34,647 --> 00:13:35,647
[JONES] Hi, Jon.
280
00:13:36,732 --> 00:13:40,528
- Did you think Donna had the crush on you?
- Did I? No, we're good friends.
281
00:13:40,611 --> 00:13:42,839
[JONES] Guess what?
It's Scott that has the crush on you.
282
00:13:42,863 --> 00:13:44,532
You lied to me. [LAUGHS]
283
00:13:44,615 --> 00:13:46,075
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
284
00:13:46,158 --> 00:13:47,868
[APPLAUSE]
285
00:13:48,536 --> 00:13:49,536
Interesting.
286
00:13:49,995 --> 00:13:52,915
Uh, before we chat, take a look at...
We'll show a little playback
287
00:13:52,998 --> 00:13:55,918
of what Scott said about you, Jon.
Take a look at that monitor there.
288
00:13:56,335 --> 00:13:59,296
Um, I got a pretty big hammock in my yard,
and I just...
289
00:13:59,380 --> 00:14:01,757
Yeah, I thought about tying him up
to my hammock.
290
00:14:02,216 --> 00:14:03,425
- [AUDIENCE LAUGHS]
- Um...
291
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:05,760
[JONES] And?
292
00:14:06,262 --> 00:14:09,723
Well, it entails, like, whipped cream
and champagne, stuff like that.
293
00:14:09,807 --> 00:14:11,183
[WOMAN] Oh, my God!
294
00:14:11,267 --> 00:14:12,476
[APPLAUSE]
295
00:14:13,143 --> 00:14:14,603
Oh...
296
00:14:15,980 --> 00:14:18,190
Did you have any idea
that he liked you this much?
297
00:14:18,274 --> 00:14:20,192
Um, no, no.
298
00:14:20,276 --> 00:14:21,193
No, I did not.
299
00:14:21,277 --> 00:14:24,280
Can you tell us what your status is?
Are you involved with anybody, or...
300
00:14:24,363 --> 00:14:25,406
Um, no.
301
00:14:25,489 --> 00:14:29,618
But I am, uh, definitely heterosexual,
I guess you could say.
302
00:14:29,702 --> 00:14:31,579
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
303
00:14:34,957 --> 00:14:38,627
It was pretty clear
that he was emotionally, um, distraught.
304
00:14:38,711 --> 00:14:41,005
- Jon, how you doing? Okay?
- [JON] I'm doing good.
305
00:14:41,088 --> 00:14:45,050
What stuck out was the way
Jenny Jones was priming the audience...
306
00:14:45,134 --> 00:14:46,886
Would you tell that person that you're gay
307
00:14:46,969 --> 00:14:50,222
and you hope he is on national television
in front of millions?
308
00:14:50,306 --> 00:14:52,016
[CHEERING]
309
00:14:52,099 --> 00:14:55,936
Telling them the titillating situation
that was about to occur.
310
00:14:56,020 --> 00:14:57,771
- [JONES] Here's Jon.
- [CHEERING]
311
00:14:57,855 --> 00:14:59,607
When he first walked out on the stage...
312
00:14:59,690 --> 00:15:04,695
It's not clear whether he thinks
the secret admirer is Donna or Scott.
313
00:15:05,237 --> 00:15:07,698
I actually thought Jonathan came out
314
00:15:07,781 --> 00:15:10,284
and was very good-natured.
315
00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:12,536
And then there's an awkward embrace.
316
00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:13,620
An awkward embrace.
317
00:15:13,662 --> 00:15:16,540
You can't really tell
who's reacting to who.
318
00:15:16,624 --> 00:15:18,424
[PENDERGAST] Then the bomb
was dropped on him.
319
00:15:18,459 --> 00:15:20,299
[JONES] Guess what?
Scott has the crush on you.
320
00:15:20,336 --> 00:15:22,087
You lied to me. [LAUGHS]
321
00:15:22,171 --> 00:15:23,797
[AUDIENCE CHEERING AND LAUGHING]
322
00:15:23,881 --> 00:15:24,965
[APPLAUSE]
323
00:15:26,258 --> 00:15:27,092
Interesting.
324
00:15:27,176 --> 00:15:29,136
He had, you know,
that frozen smile on his face.
325
00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:33,390
He's smiling in an excessive sort of way.
326
00:15:33,474 --> 00:15:35,017
He's clearly uncomfortable.
327
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:36,644
Take a look at that monitor.
328
00:15:36,727 --> 00:15:39,355
Um, I got a pretty big hammock in my yard,
and I just...
329
00:15:39,438 --> 00:15:41,358
Yeah, I thought about
tying him up to my hammock.
330
00:15:41,398 --> 00:15:44,276
She knew what she was doing.
And she asked snappy questions.
331
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:45,361
[JONES] And?
332
00:15:45,444 --> 00:15:46,487
She earned her money.
333
00:15:46,570 --> 00:15:49,990
Well, it entails, like, whipped cream
and champagne, stuff like that.
334
00:15:50,491 --> 00:15:52,928
[BURDICK] I mean, if she had been
an honest and decent person,
335
00:15:52,952 --> 00:15:54,429
- she would have said...
- [TAPE STOPS]
336
00:15:54,453 --> 00:15:57,873
"Stop the cameras."
You know, "Let's... Let's stop right here."
337
00:15:58,958 --> 00:16:00,834
[CHEERING AND LAUGHTER]
338
00:16:00,918 --> 00:16:02,753
He puts his hands up over his face.
339
00:16:02,836 --> 00:16:03,879
[LAUGHTER]
340
00:16:03,963 --> 00:16:06,382
Did you have any idea
that he liked you this much?
341
00:16:06,465 --> 00:16:09,218
Um, no, no. No, I did not.
342
00:16:09,301 --> 00:16:12,680
Jonathan is kind of sitting there
with either no expression on his face,
343
00:16:12,763 --> 00:16:15,391
or a grin, or a chuckle, or a smile.
344
00:16:15,474 --> 00:16:18,978
Pretty quickly, Jonathan said,
"I'm a hundred percent heterosexual."
345
00:16:19,061 --> 00:16:20,145
I guess you could say.
346
00:16:20,229 --> 00:16:21,772
[WHELAN] He determined in that moment
347
00:16:21,855 --> 00:16:24,858
it was important for the audience
to understand
348
00:16:24,942 --> 00:16:26,276
that he wasn't gay.
349
00:16:27,069 --> 00:16:30,155
He seemed a little uncomfortable,
but nothing over the top.
350
00:16:30,239 --> 00:16:33,784
I don't think anybody saw what was coming,
but you could see
351
00:16:33,867 --> 00:16:36,107
that he was not comfortable
with what was going on there.
352
00:16:36,161 --> 00:16:38,580
- Are you very disappointed?
- No, actually. No, no.
353
00:16:38,664 --> 00:16:40,976
- You know, the thing is...
- [JONES] It's a nice compliment.
354
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,211
If nothing else, it's a nice compliment
to pay somebody. We'll take a break...
355
00:16:44,795 --> 00:16:46,296
No one threatens anybody.
356
00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:48,966
There's no physical confrontation.
357
00:16:49,049 --> 00:16:50,759
Nobody accuses anybody.
358
00:16:52,261 --> 00:16:53,512
It's pretty normal stuff.
359
00:16:58,684 --> 00:17:03,564
Afterwards, Donna, Jonathan,
and Scott were hanging out together.
360
00:17:03,647 --> 00:17:07,026
So there was no overt signs
that Jonathan was troubled
361
00:17:07,109 --> 00:17:10,195
to the point that he would do
something dramatic.
362
00:17:10,279 --> 00:17:14,074
[BURDICK] Did the defendant voice
any displeasure about being on the show?
363
00:17:14,158 --> 00:17:15,826
- No.
- [BURDICK] Did he voice any anger
364
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:17,202
towards Scott Amedure?
365
00:17:17,995 --> 00:17:18,995
No.
366
00:17:19,329 --> 00:17:22,207
And then Scott apparently left a...
367
00:17:23,042 --> 00:17:25,419
provocative sexual note
368
00:17:25,502 --> 00:17:27,171
where Jonathan would find it.
369
00:17:27,796 --> 00:17:29,757
That was the third day after the show.
370
00:17:30,507 --> 00:17:34,470
[PENDERGAST] Scott left a suggestive note
on Jonathan's doorway,
371
00:17:34,553 --> 00:17:38,140
along with one
of those flashing construction lights.
372
00:17:39,349 --> 00:17:41,894
I believe the note said something
to the effect of,
373
00:17:41,977 --> 00:17:44,188
"You have the tool to turn this off."
374
00:17:46,231 --> 00:17:47,858
[MAN] He just indicated he became angry,
375
00:17:47,941 --> 00:17:53,322
and, uh, at that point, he indicated
he just made a decision to kill Amedure.
376
00:17:53,405 --> 00:17:56,617
So Jonathan went to the bank.
377
00:17:56,700 --> 00:17:59,286
[PENDERGAST] He then went
and purchased ammunition.
378
00:17:59,369 --> 00:18:00,871
He then went and bought a gun.
379
00:18:01,497 --> 00:18:03,415
He was very cool, calm, and collected.
380
00:18:03,957 --> 00:18:05,125
[BURDICK] Was he rude to you?
381
00:18:05,209 --> 00:18:07,211
Oh, not... not in the least, no. Very...
382
00:18:08,003 --> 00:18:09,671
Very polite young man.
383
00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:15,344
[BRASIER] And then he drove
to Scott's mobile home in Orion Township.
384
00:18:16,637 --> 00:18:19,640
Knocked on the door.
There was some sort of discussion.
385
00:18:19,723 --> 00:18:22,851
[STOUT] At that point, he told Scott
he had to go out and shut his car off.
386
00:18:23,435 --> 00:18:26,063
He exited the residence
and retrieved the shotgun.
387
00:18:27,564 --> 00:18:29,733
[BRASIER] There was a man in the house
who testified.
388
00:18:29,817 --> 00:18:32,027
[BRADY] Scott stood back from the door
and said,
389
00:18:32,111 --> 00:18:34,613
"Gary, help. He's got a gun."
390
00:18:35,405 --> 00:18:39,076
He used the shotgun in a sweeping motion
to knock the door back open.
391
00:18:41,161 --> 00:18:44,248
At that point, uh,
Amedure grabbed a wicker chair,
392
00:18:44,748 --> 00:18:45,908
pulled it up in front of him,
393
00:18:45,958 --> 00:18:47,751
and was kind of backing away
from the door.
394
00:18:50,295 --> 00:18:52,840
And at that point, the gun went off.
There was a shot.
395
00:18:59,471 --> 00:19:01,515
[AMEDURE JR.] When he described
what happened,
396
00:19:01,598 --> 00:19:05,811
the smoke coming from his body
and the wheezing and things,
397
00:19:06,270 --> 00:19:07,270
um...
398
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,108
it had to be an awful thing
for him to, uh...
399
00:19:12,025 --> 00:19:13,025
be there.
400
00:19:14,862 --> 00:19:17,447
And then wait for the ambulance
and all that.
401
00:19:26,707 --> 00:19:28,375
This is us in Ohio,
402
00:19:30,419 --> 00:19:31,920
before we moved to Pittsburgh.
403
00:19:37,968 --> 00:19:41,847
So, I went over to the house.
404
00:19:43,515 --> 00:19:45,267
I was real high on adrenaline.
405
00:19:45,851 --> 00:19:47,769
My heart was racing the whole time.
406
00:19:48,854 --> 00:19:50,939
And, uh, you know, I had the radio on.
407
00:19:54,109 --> 00:19:55,903
I guess it was like I needed to get there
408
00:19:55,986 --> 00:19:58,155
and find out
if what I was hearing was true.
409
00:20:04,411 --> 00:20:08,373
And I walked up,
and these detectives came up to me.
410
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,127
They told me that I'd better get a lawyer.
411
00:20:13,003 --> 00:20:14,671
That it was gonna be a media circus.
412
00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:20,427
And that's when everything became,
like, unreal.
413
00:20:20,510 --> 00:20:22,763
[NEWSWOMAN] Thirty-two-year-old
Scott Amedure is dead...
414
00:20:22,846 --> 00:20:25,974
[NEWSMAN] Amedure died Thursday,
killed by two blasts from a shotgun.
415
00:20:26,058 --> 00:20:28,810
I don't know what happened.
I have no idea. I'm just in shock.
416
00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:31,563
It had to do with the Jenny...
Jenny Jones taping.
417
00:20:31,647 --> 00:20:33,148
I don't think they've showed it yet.
418
00:20:33,649 --> 00:20:35,484
'Cause we were waiting
to see it ourselves.
419
00:20:38,862 --> 00:20:42,366
And that one scene where
they're taking my brother out on the...
420
00:20:42,783 --> 00:20:43,825
in the body bag,
421
00:20:44,201 --> 00:20:45,786
um, I was standing there.
422
00:20:47,079 --> 00:20:50,499
Nothing has ever been the same
ever since that.
423
00:20:51,166 --> 00:20:53,269
[NEWSMAN 1] Later, Jonathan Schmitz
shot and killed...
424
00:20:53,293 --> 00:20:56,093
[NEWSWOMAN 1] The suspect turned
his weapon and himself over to police.
425
00:20:56,171 --> 00:20:59,549
[NEWSMAN 2] A few days after the taping,
back in Michigan,
426
00:20:59,633 --> 00:21:02,052
a chagrined Schmitz showed up
at Amedure's mobile home.
427
00:21:02,135 --> 00:21:04,530
[NEWSWOMAN 2] Investigators have
a confession and eyewitness.
428
00:21:04,554 --> 00:21:06,514
[NEWSMAN 3] Schmitz then called 911
and confessed.
429
00:21:06,556 --> 00:21:08,684
Now he's on trial for first-degree murder.
430
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,607
[LICHTER] In the 1990s,
people started looking at a courtroom
431
00:21:15,691 --> 00:21:18,235
as a kind of television set.
432
00:21:20,696 --> 00:21:23,198
How much interest
has this particular case generated?
433
00:21:23,282 --> 00:21:24,491
A lot of interest.
434
00:21:25,158 --> 00:21:28,287
[LICHTER] It's not just people involved
in the case who can experience it.
435
00:21:28,370 --> 00:21:30,706
[ANNOUNCER] You never know what to expect
from Court TV's
436
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:32,624
live daytime trial coverage.
437
00:21:32,708 --> 00:21:34,584
[LICHTER] It's everybody
around the country,
438
00:21:34,668 --> 00:21:36,920
and so it becomes fodder
for entertainment.
439
00:21:39,464 --> 00:21:43,093
Court TV took what was already a big story
and blew it up.
440
00:21:44,219 --> 00:21:47,472
[PENDERGAST] Gavel-to-gavel coverage
is what they boasted about.
441
00:21:47,931 --> 00:21:51,476
Every witness, every motion,
every everything.
442
00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:56,023
[BRASIER] This was sensational
in so many ways, and not good ways.
443
00:21:56,106 --> 00:21:57,316
And because of the celebrity,
444
00:21:57,399 --> 00:21:59,609
because of the brutality of this murder,
445
00:21:59,693 --> 00:22:01,445
this was hitting all of those buttons.
446
00:22:01,528 --> 00:22:04,808
It was sensational enough that they knew
if they parked their camera at that court,
447
00:22:04,865 --> 00:22:07,617
they were gonna have a pretty good feed
every single day.
448
00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:12,831
[PENDERGAST] After Jonathan killed Scott,
449
00:22:12,914 --> 00:22:14,833
he went to a pay telephone.
450
00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:17,127
He called 911.
451
00:22:17,210 --> 00:22:19,504
He indicated that he had just shot Scott
452
00:22:19,588 --> 00:22:22,007
because he had been embarrassed
on national TV.
453
00:22:24,092 --> 00:22:25,385
[RECORDING PLAYS]
454
00:22:25,469 --> 00:22:28,388
- [SCHMITZ] I think I just shot a man.
- [911 OPERATOR] Okay.
455
00:22:28,472 --> 00:22:30,557
[SCHMITZ] I'm just turning myself in.
456
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,435
[911 OPERATOR] Okay.
Can you tell me what happened?
457
00:22:33,518 --> 00:22:35,896
[SCHMITZ] I just walked in
and fucking killed him.
458
00:22:36,313 --> 00:22:38,153
[911 OPERATOR] I just want you
to try to relax.
459
00:22:38,231 --> 00:22:40,067
Can you take a deep breath for me?
460
00:22:40,734 --> 00:22:41,734
[SCHMITZ SOBBING]
461
00:22:41,777 --> 00:22:43,987
I know you're upset, okay?
462
00:22:44,738 --> 00:22:46,281
We're gonna help you, though.
463
00:22:48,492 --> 00:22:50,869
- He's fairly hysterical here?
- Yes.
464
00:22:51,578 --> 00:22:52,954
[BURDICK] After the shooting,
465
00:22:53,038 --> 00:22:55,791
he got in his car and he drove
to a gas station, called the police.
466
00:22:56,249 --> 00:22:58,293
I mean, does that sound like a guy
who's out there
467
00:22:58,377 --> 00:23:00,128
looking to... to murder somebody?
468
00:23:00,212 --> 00:23:01,922
Is he anxious to murder somebody?
469
00:23:02,255 --> 00:23:04,174
No. He just...
470
00:23:04,257 --> 00:23:06,777
It happened, and he called
because that's the kind of guy he is.
471
00:23:06,843 --> 00:23:09,304
"I did something wrong.
Now I gotta pay for it.
472
00:23:09,388 --> 00:23:11,139
I have to confess. I have to give it up."
473
00:23:11,848 --> 00:23:13,975
[MAN] Ladies and gentlemen,
there was no murder here.
474
00:23:14,810 --> 00:23:16,610
There was a shooting,
but there was no murder.
475
00:23:18,146 --> 00:23:20,315
[BURDICK] That was a case
of what his motivations were
476
00:23:20,399 --> 00:23:22,818
and whether he was doing
what he was doing on purpose.
477
00:23:22,901 --> 00:23:24,069
He was bipolar.
478
00:23:24,152 --> 00:23:27,280
He had a syndrome of affective disorder,
479
00:23:27,364 --> 00:23:30,283
and he has depression reoccurring.
480
00:23:30,367 --> 00:23:32,619
He said he has made attempts of suicide.
481
00:23:32,702 --> 00:23:35,080
Jonathan had taken a whole bottle
of my heart medicine.
482
00:23:35,163 --> 00:23:37,707
This was a young man
who had a lot of baggage.
483
00:23:38,208 --> 00:23:43,004
And he stated
that his father was an abusive father.
484
00:23:43,088 --> 00:23:46,883
I found out that Jon had been, uh,
skipping class.
485
00:23:46,967 --> 00:23:48,260
And, uh...
486
00:23:48,343 --> 00:23:49,970
I... I punished him.
487
00:23:50,387 --> 00:23:55,183
I took off my belt, and I pulled his hair
and strapped him on the, uh, butt
488
00:23:55,767 --> 00:23:57,060
as I took him into class.
489
00:23:57,144 --> 00:23:58,704
- [BURDICK] In front of the class?
- Yes.
490
00:23:58,728 --> 00:24:02,941
He had very serious Graves' disease,
which also causes misfires in the brain.
491
00:24:03,024 --> 00:24:05,068
When I saw him, it was quite advanced.
492
00:24:05,152 --> 00:24:06,987
He was very severely thyrotoxic.
493
00:24:07,070 --> 00:24:10,157
[MAN] Most people who have hyperthyroidism
494
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,618
can continue on without killing somebody.
Is that correct?
495
00:24:13,702 --> 00:24:14,536
Correct.
496
00:24:14,619 --> 00:24:19,124
I had Graves' disease myself
and, uh, I had some depression.
497
00:24:19,207 --> 00:24:21,626
But depression doesn't make people go out
and kill people,
498
00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:24,754
so I think that's just, uh,
reaching for straws there.
499
00:24:25,505 --> 00:24:26,905
[BURDICK] And then, after the show,
500
00:24:26,965 --> 00:24:30,969
Jon was completely humiliated
and... and revealed his humiliation.
501
00:24:31,386 --> 00:24:32,262
Not in so many words,
502
00:24:32,345 --> 00:24:35,557
but only an idiot wouldn't see
how humiliated he was.
503
00:24:36,558 --> 00:24:37,642
No.
504
00:24:37,726 --> 00:24:39,311
It shouldn't be humiliating.
505
00:24:39,394 --> 00:24:43,732
Imagine if every time
a woman is hit on in a bar,
506
00:24:43,815 --> 00:24:46,443
she can just fly into a rage
and kill that person.
507
00:24:46,985 --> 00:24:51,406
When Scott attempted to hug him,
he felt literally trapped...
508
00:24:51,490 --> 00:24:54,034
Instead of saying,
"Jeez, I'm sorry, kid," you know.
509
00:24:54,117 --> 00:24:56,620
"We were just having a little fun.
It went too far.
510
00:24:56,703 --> 00:24:58,163
Didn't mean to embarrass you..."
511
00:24:58,246 --> 00:24:59,372
No.
512
00:24:59,456 --> 00:25:00,957
He took the other route.
513
00:25:01,041 --> 00:25:03,376
Push, push, push.
Leave these little notes.
514
00:25:06,254 --> 00:25:08,298
He kept pushing him further and further,
515
00:25:08,381 --> 00:25:11,551
this guy with a very delicate
psychiatric situation.
516
00:25:12,344 --> 00:25:15,472
If he knew the word "fragile,"
he would tell him, "I'm really fragile."
517
00:25:15,555 --> 00:25:17,182
That's what he was trying to tell him.
518
00:25:18,058 --> 00:25:20,185
And Amedure basically told him,
519
00:25:20,268 --> 00:25:23,897
"I'll do anything that I wanna do
with you or anybody else,
520
00:25:23,980 --> 00:25:24,981
so fuck off."
521
00:25:25,982 --> 00:25:28,318
Can I say that on Netflix?
522
00:25:28,401 --> 00:25:29,444
"So, fuck off."
523
00:25:30,445 --> 00:25:33,615
That's when he went out into the car,
pulled out the gun, loaded it up,
524
00:25:33,698 --> 00:25:35,325
walked to the front door again,
525
00:25:35,408 --> 00:25:37,077
holding it like this. Not pointed at him.
526
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,371
[BURDICK] Is there a significance
to the fact
527
00:25:39,454 --> 00:25:41,748
that Jon did not come back with the gun
528
00:25:41,831 --> 00:25:44,084
charging in the house, shooting?
529
00:25:44,167 --> 00:25:45,835
It's a non-predatory stance.
530
00:25:45,919 --> 00:25:48,255
Yes, it's true that I saw the defendant
531
00:25:48,338 --> 00:25:50,465
standing on the stoop
with a gun in his hands.
532
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:53,051
Now what else
do you need to know here, sir?
533
00:25:56,012 --> 00:25:58,390
Instead of saying,
"Jeez, Jon. I'm sorry, ah..."
534
00:25:58,473 --> 00:25:59,808
he picks up a chair.
535
00:25:59,891 --> 00:26:04,354
And the next thing you saw
was Scott picking up a chair. Correct?
536
00:26:05,647 --> 00:26:06,815
I'm not sure of the sequence.
537
00:26:06,898 --> 00:26:09,538
And he says, "Get the fuck out of here."
And he starts to throw it.
538
00:26:09,568 --> 00:26:12,070
You gotta be careful with Burdick.
[LAUGHS]
539
00:26:12,153 --> 00:26:14,573
I remember...
I remember there was a wicker chair.
540
00:26:14,656 --> 00:26:18,368
That was the moment
that Jon's mind totally snapped.
541
00:26:18,451 --> 00:26:20,704
That's when Jonathan turns the gun on him
and shoots him.
542
00:26:22,998 --> 00:26:26,376
I mean, if anybody was asking
to get killed that day...
543
00:26:26,459 --> 00:26:28,139
I guess when I walked out
of the courtroom,
544
00:26:28,169 --> 00:26:30,714
it wasn't so much that I was angry.
545
00:26:30,797 --> 00:26:31,715
I, uh...
546
00:26:31,798 --> 00:26:34,509
I felt that I just wanted everybody
to know that,
547
00:26:35,010 --> 00:26:38,263
uh, you know, this is a bunch of bull.
548
00:26:42,309 --> 00:26:45,353
[PROSECUTOR] They've thrown
a number of defenses at you.
549
00:26:45,937 --> 00:26:47,188
The shotgun approach.
550
00:26:47,564 --> 00:26:48,982
Maybe it was self-defense.
551
00:26:49,065 --> 00:26:50,984
Maybe it was a flashback to childhood.
552
00:26:51,693 --> 00:26:53,445
We have to separate this case.
553
00:26:53,528 --> 00:26:55,989
Certainly not first-degree.
It's not second-degree murder
554
00:26:56,072 --> 00:26:58,241
because there was no ability
to form an intent,
555
00:26:58,325 --> 00:27:01,536
unless you believe that Jon wasn't
suffering from any mental disorder.
556
00:27:02,037 --> 00:27:04,623
And there was no ability
to form enough of an intent
557
00:27:04,706 --> 00:27:06,546
for the prosecution
to be able to prove to you,
558
00:27:06,583 --> 00:27:08,293
beyond a reasonable doubt, manslaughter.
559
00:27:09,252 --> 00:27:12,464
[NEWSWOMAN] If the jury decides
he is not guilty of first-degree murder,
560
00:27:12,547 --> 00:27:14,966
then they have to decide
on several other options.
561
00:27:15,050 --> 00:27:17,650
[BURDICK] I don't know how
I convinced him. I got the judge to use
562
00:27:17,677 --> 00:27:19,357
lesser included offenses of second-degree,
563
00:27:19,429 --> 00:27:21,723
voluntary manslaughter,
involuntary manslaughter.
564
00:27:21,806 --> 00:27:23,016
And then I got him to agree
565
00:27:23,099 --> 00:27:25,894
to discharge of a weapon
in the city limits,
566
00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:27,896
injury or death resulting,
567
00:27:27,979 --> 00:27:30,190
which is a two-year misdemeanor.
[CHUCKLES]
568
00:27:31,566 --> 00:27:33,777
[BRASIER] They deliberated
over a few days.
569
00:27:33,860 --> 00:27:35,740
And then, of course,
the judge is very concerned
570
00:27:35,779 --> 00:27:39,699
about they're gonna be influenced
by this massive media presence.
571
00:27:41,660 --> 00:27:43,703
[FOREMAN] Our verdict, um,
572
00:27:43,787 --> 00:27:46,498
as to the charge
of first-degree premeditated murder
573
00:27:46,581 --> 00:27:49,751
is guilty of the lesser offense
of second-degree murder.
574
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:59,010
[BRASIER] That could have clearly been
a first-degree murder conviction.
575
00:27:59,094 --> 00:28:01,930
And I think that's testament
to how good his defense attorneys were.
576
00:28:02,013 --> 00:28:03,493
Jonathan's reaction after the verdict
577
00:28:03,556 --> 00:28:05,975
was like Jonathan's reaction
on The Jenny Jones Show.
578
00:28:06,059 --> 00:28:07,059
His face was a mask.
579
00:28:07,102 --> 00:28:09,270
You could not tell
what Jon's real reaction was.
580
00:28:09,354 --> 00:28:10,689
You will not be able to tell...
581
00:28:10,772 --> 00:28:13,858
[AMEDURE JR.] The jury and the media
582
00:28:14,818 --> 00:28:16,361
was sorry for Schmitz,
583
00:28:16,444 --> 00:28:18,238
and so he got off with murder two.
584
00:28:18,947 --> 00:28:20,824
Do you... Did you like Jonathan?
585
00:28:20,907 --> 00:28:24,452
Absolutely. I told my husband
right after the trial started
586
00:28:24,536 --> 00:28:26,456
that I wouldn't even mind
having a son like that.
587
00:28:26,538 --> 00:28:28,832
I think he's a wonderful person,
and it's just...
588
00:28:28,915 --> 00:28:31,292
uh, it's an unhappy set of circumstances.
589
00:28:31,376 --> 00:28:34,671
The final episode Wednesday
of the so-called talk show murder trial.
590
00:28:34,754 --> 00:28:37,507
It was sentencing day
for convicted killer Jonathan Schmitz.
591
00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:41,553
[JUDGE] A minimum of 25 years
in state prison,
592
00:28:41,636 --> 00:28:44,472
maximum not more than 50 years.
593
00:28:45,181 --> 00:28:48,935
I can tell you that, uh,
the reaction was not just heartbreak.
594
00:28:49,018 --> 00:28:51,354
I think it was probably
more like shattered.
595
00:28:51,438 --> 00:28:53,523
[AMEDURE JR.] I've even talked to his dad,
596
00:28:53,606 --> 00:28:56,025
and we were all there together, you know?
597
00:28:57,026 --> 00:29:00,947
And somehow we all kind of felt
like we all got screwed.
598
00:29:01,531 --> 00:29:02,866
You know, we all...
599
00:29:02,949 --> 00:29:05,201
We... We shouldn't even be here.
600
00:29:05,744 --> 00:29:06,828
Jonathan was a good boy.
601
00:29:06,911 --> 00:29:08,830
Jonathan never did anything
in his whole life.
602
00:29:08,913 --> 00:29:10,623
He really is a good kid,
603
00:29:11,124 --> 00:29:13,960
and I just feel so badly
604
00:29:14,043 --> 00:29:17,172
that he has to be
the sacrificial lamb, you know,
605
00:29:17,255 --> 00:29:19,507
for a dumb talk show.
606
00:29:19,591 --> 00:29:21,509
You know, Jonathan was a victim
in this thing.
607
00:29:21,593 --> 00:29:24,971
I'm not saying that he was right,
but I'm saying that he lost too.
608
00:29:26,681 --> 00:29:27,681
[CLICKS LIPS]
609
00:29:27,724 --> 00:29:29,476
Well, he was, in a way.
610
00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:32,270
You know, he shouldn't have been put
in that position to begin with.
611
00:29:32,353 --> 00:29:33,938
So he was a victim too.
612
00:29:34,939 --> 00:29:36,399
Yeah, he was a victim too.
613
00:29:36,483 --> 00:29:38,359
So, you know, I don't argue that.
614
00:29:40,945 --> 00:29:43,114
[JONES] I want to set the record straight.
615
00:29:43,198 --> 00:29:45,784
First, as much as we all regret
what happened,
616
00:29:45,867 --> 00:29:49,496
the fact is that this tragedy
is about the actions of one individual.
617
00:29:50,288 --> 00:29:53,041
[AMEDURE JR.] I gotta say
that I blame the producers...
618
00:29:53,875 --> 00:29:55,418
probably just about as much
619
00:29:55,502 --> 00:29:58,046
because it was their job
to go out and find people
620
00:29:58,129 --> 00:30:00,507
that they could, uh, exploit.
621
00:30:00,590 --> 00:30:02,717
Um, that's what they do for a living.
622
00:30:02,801 --> 00:30:03,885
Exploit people.
623
00:30:04,552 --> 00:30:06,596
While the murder trial comes to a close,
624
00:30:06,679 --> 00:30:09,933
the civil suit in this matter
hasn't even gotten underway.
625
00:30:10,016 --> 00:30:11,851
[NEWSMAN] Amedure's family
is suing the show.
626
00:30:11,935 --> 00:30:14,020
I do believe that
this would not have happened
627
00:30:14,103 --> 00:30:16,314
if it were not for The Jenny Jones Show.
628
00:30:16,397 --> 00:30:18,399
The Jenny Jones Show
that was responsible
629
00:30:18,483 --> 00:30:20,860
for literally almost everything
that happened here
630
00:30:20,944 --> 00:30:23,029
because the show was the catalyst.
631
00:30:23,112 --> 00:30:25,573
What was astonishing to me
is that the coverage continued.
632
00:30:25,657 --> 00:30:27,537
There was still a huge amount
of interest in it.
633
00:30:27,575 --> 00:30:31,412
Beth, how significant is
the media presence at the trial?
634
00:30:31,496 --> 00:30:32,497
Well, it is growing.
635
00:30:32,580 --> 00:30:34,940
[NEWSWOMAN] The Jenny Jones Show
is charged with negligence,
636
00:30:34,999 --> 00:30:36,668
gross negligence, and willful...
637
00:30:36,751 --> 00:30:40,129
[NEWSMAN] ...suing the show, Telepictures,
and Warner Brothers for $50 million.
638
00:30:40,213 --> 00:30:43,258
It was just a story that didn't seem
like it was ever gonna end.
639
00:30:43,341 --> 00:30:45,552
[NEWSMAN] Is the talk show industry
watching this case
640
00:30:45,635 --> 00:30:46,795
with any concern or interest?
641
00:30:46,845 --> 00:30:49,806
[WOMAN] I think they're very concerned.
If you can be found liable,
642
00:30:49,889 --> 00:30:51,049
it's gonna change everything.
643
00:30:51,099 --> 00:30:54,143
Jenny, you are responsible
for what happened,
644
00:30:54,227 --> 00:30:56,563
and you should take responsibility
for that.
645
00:30:56,646 --> 00:31:01,776
And I fully believe that Geoffrey Fieger
is going to make you understand
646
00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:03,862
your culpability in all of this.
647
00:31:05,363 --> 00:31:08,783
[ANNOUNCER] Only one has stood up
and taken on big business
648
00:31:08,867 --> 00:31:09,868
and the government,
649
00:31:09,951 --> 00:31:14,455
and only one is one of the most famous
trial lawyers in America.
650
00:31:14,539 --> 00:31:18,418
There is only one Geoffrey Fieger.
651
00:31:19,627 --> 00:31:23,381
We needed a different kind of lawyer,
and then that's when I called Fieger.
652
00:31:23,798 --> 00:31:25,717
And he, of course, answered the phone,
653
00:31:26,175 --> 00:31:28,803
and he said, "I was wondering
when you were gonna call me."
654
00:31:29,846 --> 00:31:31,514
Did you meet Mr. Fieger?
655
00:31:34,142 --> 00:31:36,269
[FIEGER] They were very smart
in calling me.
656
00:31:39,188 --> 00:31:40,188
I knew what to do.
657
00:31:42,150 --> 00:31:44,485
Every case that I have is about a story.
658
00:31:44,569 --> 00:31:47,071
I take every case, and I paint a picture.
659
00:31:48,448 --> 00:31:53,661
Now, the law is quite formulated,
and you have to follow specific rules.
660
00:31:53,745 --> 00:31:57,749
But that's not so unlike technique
of painters
661
00:31:57,832 --> 00:31:58,958
or other artists.
662
00:31:59,042 --> 00:32:00,460
They work with the medium.
663
00:32:01,002 --> 00:32:03,713
And so the medium of the law, I learned.
664
00:32:05,131 --> 00:32:08,843
And my art is the art of telling stories.
665
00:32:10,511 --> 00:32:11,511
[BURDICK] Fieger is...
666
00:32:11,971 --> 00:32:14,724
and I say this in the kindest way,
a press animal.
667
00:32:14,807 --> 00:32:16,100
Geoffrey Fieger is a showboat.
668
00:32:16,184 --> 00:32:18,561
Jenny Jones Show better be ready
for this.
669
00:32:18,645 --> 00:32:21,397
He made his name representing
Jack Kevorkian for many years.
670
00:32:21,481 --> 00:32:24,525
[NEWSMAN] Dr. Kevorkian was charged
with first-degree murder
671
00:32:24,609 --> 00:32:26,361
and with assisting in a suicide.
672
00:32:26,444 --> 00:32:28,947
He was a drama major in college.
673
00:32:29,030 --> 00:32:31,074
In the courtroom,
who's gonna stand up for you?
674
00:32:31,157 --> 00:32:33,993
[BRASIER] He likes his stardom
here in metro Detroit.
675
00:32:34,077 --> 00:32:36,204
You see billboards and ads on television.
676
00:32:36,663 --> 00:32:38,539
[ANNOUNCER] Now it's Fieger Time.
677
00:32:38,623 --> 00:32:40,291
[ROCK MUSIC PLAYS]
678
00:32:40,541 --> 00:32:43,544
If you trick and lie and deceive
and commit fraud,
679
00:32:43,628 --> 00:32:46,881
like The Jenny Jones Show producers did
with Jonathan Schmitz...
680
00:32:46,965 --> 00:32:48,633
He takes on really high-profile cases,
681
00:32:48,716 --> 00:32:51,928
sometimes those
that I think he knows he's going to lose
682
00:32:52,011 --> 00:32:53,721
but that keeps his name in the paper.
683
00:32:53,805 --> 00:32:55,807
I don't think
I need any more notoriety here.
684
00:32:55,890 --> 00:32:57,976
I was the Democratic nominee for governor.
685
00:32:58,059 --> 00:32:59,268
He's a good man,
686
00:32:59,352 --> 00:33:01,437
and, uh, I think he cares.
687
00:33:01,521 --> 00:33:03,690
Okay. But he comes off very gruff.
688
00:33:04,941 --> 00:33:06,025
They gotta stop.
689
00:33:06,109 --> 00:33:07,568
Who's talking outside?
690
00:33:08,194 --> 00:33:09,779
You've got to get them away.
691
00:33:11,239 --> 00:33:12,865
And arrogant.
692
00:33:13,491 --> 00:33:15,326
Are they discussing settlement?
693
00:33:15,410 --> 00:33:17,704
No, they're not, and it surprises me.
694
00:33:17,787 --> 00:33:19,163
Hm. Opinionated.
695
00:33:19,247 --> 00:33:23,584
Some people might not like
uppity white lawyers. Tough luck.
696
00:33:23,668 --> 00:33:25,128
And you gotta kinda go with it.
697
00:33:25,211 --> 00:33:27,797
The Jenny Jones Show trial
where I put 'em on trial
698
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,340
is about to happen.
699
00:33:29,966 --> 00:33:33,636
He, you know, was a publicity hound.
700
00:33:34,721 --> 00:33:37,598
And I say that in a, you know,
in a respectful way.
701
00:33:39,267 --> 00:33:40,685
If any of you...
702
00:33:43,438 --> 00:33:44,438
should...
703
00:33:45,565 --> 00:33:46,858
be able at any...
704
00:33:48,109 --> 00:33:49,485
particular time...
705
00:33:50,361 --> 00:33:52,613
on any particular day to...
706
00:33:53,781 --> 00:33:55,950
observe the... the entrance
707
00:33:56,034 --> 00:33:59,579
into the Ottawa Cemetery...
708
00:33:59,662 --> 00:34:02,707
Ultimately, if you're going to be
successful in front of a jury,
709
00:34:02,790 --> 00:34:06,169
you've got to make the story compelling
to a human being.
710
00:34:07,170 --> 00:34:08,463
You might observe...
711
00:34:10,631 --> 00:34:11,924
an elderly man...
712
00:34:12,508 --> 00:34:14,903
First of all, Fieger's opening
was two and a half hours long.
713
00:34:14,927 --> 00:34:15,970
You might see them...
714
00:34:16,554 --> 00:34:19,307
on a bright day or on a cloudy day.
715
00:34:20,099 --> 00:34:23,936
You might see them on a windy day
or a snow-filled day.
716
00:34:24,687 --> 00:34:26,355
You might see them on a weekend...
717
00:34:26,439 --> 00:34:29,192
There was a lot of repetition.
There was a lot of redundancy.
718
00:34:29,275 --> 00:34:32,236
And written on that plaque...
719
00:34:33,279 --> 00:34:34,279
is the name...
720
00:34:35,073 --> 00:34:38,159
Scott Amedure.
721
00:34:41,037 --> 00:34:42,163
I have never listened
722
00:34:42,246 --> 00:34:44,207
to a two and a half hour
opening statement,
723
00:34:44,290 --> 00:34:45,666
either before or since.
724
00:34:46,501 --> 00:34:48,961
I'm not gonna try to talk to you
for two and a half hours.
725
00:34:49,045 --> 00:34:51,839
Uh, I don't know if I could stand here
for two and a half hours.
726
00:34:51,923 --> 00:34:54,258
Um... But I am gonna do this.
727
00:34:55,093 --> 00:34:58,596
I am going to talk to you
about what this case is all about,
728
00:34:58,679 --> 00:35:00,681
and I'm gonna talk to you about justice.
729
00:35:01,307 --> 00:35:03,017
Justice in this case
730
00:35:03,810 --> 00:35:08,397
would involve Jonathan Schmitz sitting
in this courtroom.
731
00:35:08,481 --> 00:35:10,108
That would be justice.
732
00:35:10,191 --> 00:35:11,526
[JUDGE] Excuse me.
733
00:35:12,610 --> 00:35:14,028
See, it took 60 seconds.
734
00:35:14,112 --> 00:35:15,112
[JUDGE] Thank you.
735
00:35:16,072 --> 00:35:19,742
This trial was just an absolute circus.
Bedlam.
736
00:35:19,826 --> 00:35:22,471
[FIEGER] You make up just about
everything you say. Isn't that true?
737
00:35:22,495 --> 00:35:24,415
[JUDGE] Excuse me. He's badgering.
Don't do that.
738
00:35:24,455 --> 00:35:27,917
Fieger is a very combative,
argumentative cross-examiner.
739
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,680
[FIEGER] I'll make it real simple for you.
740
00:35:29,710 --> 00:35:31,855
I know it's difficult for you
to answer some questions.
741
00:35:31,879 --> 00:35:34,507
You're an expert in embarrassment
or humiliation
742
00:35:34,590 --> 00:35:36,110
for the entertainment of other people,
743
00:35:36,175 --> 00:35:37,635
- aren't you?
- No.
744
00:35:37,718 --> 00:35:41,472
I always tell my story
in cross-examination.
745
00:35:41,556 --> 00:35:46,519
[FIEGER] Your purpose in doing this show
was to sensationalize, embarrass,
746
00:35:46,602 --> 00:35:49,480
humiliate with regard to sex.
Isn't that true?
747
00:35:49,564 --> 00:35:50,606
That's completely untrue.
748
00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:52,330
[FIEGER] And that's all you focused on...
749
00:35:52,358 --> 00:35:55,278
It's more important my questions
than the answers.
750
00:35:55,361 --> 00:35:59,323
You could object to almost every question
Fieger asked if you wanted to.
751
00:35:59,407 --> 00:36:00,700
[FEENEY] Objection, Your Honor.
752
00:36:00,783 --> 00:36:03,035
- Where is he coming up with this?
- [JUDGE] Excuse me.
753
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:04,328
[FEENEY] And that's tough.
754
00:36:04,412 --> 00:36:06,455
If my question ends up
sounding like a statement,
755
00:36:06,539 --> 00:36:10,084
believe me,
it has a little question mark after it.
756
00:36:10,168 --> 00:36:11,169
I respected him.
757
00:36:11,252 --> 00:36:12,420
Uh, he's a...
758
00:36:12,503 --> 00:36:15,131
You know, he's a difficult advocate
to deal with.
759
00:36:15,214 --> 00:36:18,885
[FIEGER] Why would you tell him
it was a man or a woman?
760
00:36:18,968 --> 00:36:21,554
Because he knew
it was a secret crush show,
761
00:36:21,637 --> 00:36:25,099
and I wanted him to know
that it could have been a man or a woman.
762
00:36:25,183 --> 00:36:28,102
[FIEGER] Excuse me.
It couldn't have been a woman
763
00:36:28,186 --> 00:36:29,937
since you knew it was a man.
764
00:36:30,021 --> 00:36:34,400
I remember Fieger hammering
on the producers.
765
00:36:34,483 --> 00:36:38,112
[FIEGER] You told them
not to tell Jonathan Schmitz
766
00:36:38,196 --> 00:36:39,655
that it was them, didn't you?
767
00:36:41,282 --> 00:36:44,160
We told all the guests on that show
not to say who it was.
768
00:36:44,243 --> 00:36:47,705
[FIEGER] So you told them to lie
to Jonathan Schmitz, didn't you?
769
00:36:47,788 --> 00:36:50,708
- [JONES] Scott has the crush on you.
- You lied to me. [LAUGHS]
770
00:36:50,791 --> 00:36:54,253
They called about a secret crush show.
It's a secret.
771
00:36:54,879 --> 00:36:57,173
[FIEGER] If you wanna understand
what really happened,
772
00:36:57,256 --> 00:37:00,176
everything was done
for the purpose of ratings.
773
00:37:00,259 --> 00:37:01,969
And ratings are money.
774
00:37:02,053 --> 00:37:03,773
And that's really what happened
in the show.
775
00:37:03,804 --> 00:37:06,057
Somebody lost their life for money.
776
00:37:06,474 --> 00:37:08,851
Ridiculous.
Shouldn't they have to pay for that?
777
00:37:09,518 --> 00:37:12,563
[FIEGER] Have you developed
an understanding of how people react
778
00:37:12,647 --> 00:37:16,359
to being deceived, embarrassed,
or humiliated on your show?
779
00:37:16,442 --> 00:37:20,071
No, because we don't deceive, embarrass,
or humiliate people on our show.
780
00:37:21,948 --> 00:37:24,116
That may be a tough sell
in front of these jurors.
781
00:37:24,617 --> 00:37:27,054
[REPORTER] Gonna be a long day,
tough day, gentlemen, or what?
782
00:37:27,078 --> 00:37:29,097
- It's gonna be a long day.
- [REPORTER] A long day?
783
00:37:29,121 --> 00:37:30,539
[FEENEY LAUGHS]
784
00:37:30,623 --> 00:37:33,542
[FEENEY] I knew
that it could easily be argued
785
00:37:33,626 --> 00:37:35,920
that there was a superficial connection
786
00:37:36,003 --> 00:37:39,131
that could have appeal to jurors.
787
00:37:39,215 --> 00:37:40,758
The bottom line here is this:
788
00:37:40,841 --> 00:37:43,970
The show acted
in a perfectly reasonable manner.
789
00:37:44,053 --> 00:37:46,597
I also knew that there was no way
790
00:37:46,681 --> 00:37:49,684
the producers of this television show
791
00:37:50,434 --> 00:37:56,065
owed any kind of a legally cognizable duty
to Scott Amedure
792
00:37:56,148 --> 00:38:01,153
to protect him against criminal activity
by a third party,
793
00:38:01,237 --> 00:38:03,114
be it Jonathan Schmitz or anyone else.
794
00:38:03,197 --> 00:38:04,365
You're flying 'em in.
795
00:38:04,448 --> 00:38:06,927
If you're paying the money
and you're going to make the profits
796
00:38:06,951 --> 00:38:09,704
from your trash TV and your ambush TV,
you damn well...
797
00:38:09,787 --> 00:38:11,956
[FEENEY] Legally, to me,
there was no question
798
00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:17,086
that the case ultimately would be decided
in favor of the show,
799
00:38:17,169 --> 00:38:20,214
but that may not happen
until after a trial we lost.
800
00:38:20,298 --> 00:38:24,802
And my responsibility was to establish
a clear difference
801
00:38:24,885 --> 00:38:27,305
between what happened with the show
802
00:38:27,388 --> 00:38:30,516
and what ultimately Jonathan Schmitz did
four days later.
803
00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:33,477
[FEENEY] Did you have any reason
to suspect when they left the studio
804
00:38:33,561 --> 00:38:38,149
that Jon Schmitz posed any risk
of violence or physical injury to anyone?
805
00:38:38,232 --> 00:38:40,609
No. He said
he had a great time on the show.
806
00:38:41,736 --> 00:38:44,530
[FEENEY] After the show,
there are several kind of critical points.
807
00:38:45,031 --> 00:38:46,157
When they leave the show,
808
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:48,909
they decide to all fly home together.
809
00:38:50,536 --> 00:38:52,580
[FIEGER] As you were leaving the airport,
810
00:38:52,663 --> 00:38:56,667
someone picked up a broken yellow light.
811
00:38:56,751 --> 00:38:57,752
Tell us about that.
812
00:38:58,502 --> 00:39:01,172
Um, it was just laying out
in the middle of the parking lot,
813
00:39:01,255 --> 00:39:03,215
and, um, they were joking back and forth.
814
00:39:03,299 --> 00:39:07,553
And Jon had his old car,
and one of the blinkers didn't work,
815
00:39:07,636 --> 00:39:09,596
so Scott had picked it up
and was teasing with him
816
00:39:09,638 --> 00:39:12,391
and said that
that could be his new blinker for the car.
817
00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:16,479
[FEENEY] And then they spent several hours
drinking together.
818
00:39:16,562 --> 00:39:19,148
He called me in Brewski's bar,
and he said, uh,
819
00:39:19,690 --> 00:39:22,777
"That thing didn't work out very well
in Chicago for me, Dad."
820
00:39:23,694 --> 00:39:24,694
He said, uh...
821
00:39:25,071 --> 00:39:26,864
He said, uh, "It was a guy."
822
00:39:26,947 --> 00:39:30,242
Then they go back
to Donna Riley's apartment,
823
00:39:30,326 --> 00:39:32,912
where the party continues.
824
00:39:32,995 --> 00:39:37,083
He told me that they, he and Jon,
had slow danced and kissed.
825
00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:38,000
[JUDGE] Excuse me.
826
00:39:38,084 --> 00:39:40,461
[FIEGER] How does he come here now
for the first time
827
00:39:40,544 --> 00:39:41,754
without disclosing it?
828
00:39:41,837 --> 00:39:44,048
He wanted to find some reason,
829
00:39:44,131 --> 00:39:47,093
other than the show
and what had happened there,
830
00:39:47,176 --> 00:39:50,513
that Jonathan Schmitz
would've killed Scott.
831
00:39:50,596 --> 00:39:54,183
It was absolutely the result
of his reaction
832
00:39:54,266 --> 00:39:56,852
to this ongoing relationship.
833
00:39:56,936 --> 00:39:58,521
They went out after the show,
834
00:39:59,146 --> 00:40:00,815
but by the time they, uh...
835
00:40:01,482 --> 00:40:02,983
the night was over,
836
00:40:03,067 --> 00:40:04,568
that they had an affair.
837
00:40:04,652 --> 00:40:07,113
In fact, nothing had happened. Nothing.
838
00:40:07,196 --> 00:40:08,656
It is explosive
839
00:40:08,739 --> 00:40:12,868
because it could absolve the defendant,
uh, from any liability.
840
00:40:12,952 --> 00:40:16,705
He told me that they had slept together.
He wanted me to meet him.
841
00:40:16,789 --> 00:40:19,041
- [FIEGER] Did it happen?
- No, it didn't happen.
842
00:40:19,125 --> 00:40:23,254
Jon told me before that his family have
confronted him, asked him if he was gay.
843
00:40:23,337 --> 00:40:25,482
Do you have any reason
to think he is, Donna? I mean...
844
00:40:25,506 --> 00:40:26,799
Um, not really.
845
00:40:26,882 --> 00:40:30,970
He, um... He said that his family
kind of questioned him on it.
846
00:40:31,053 --> 00:40:32,346
[FEENEY] Did you ever discuss
847
00:40:32,430 --> 00:40:35,683
that he was very conflicted
in his relationship with females?
848
00:40:35,766 --> 00:40:37,017
Absolutely.
849
00:40:37,101 --> 00:40:40,354
Because he had lots of conflicts
with lots of females.
850
00:40:40,438 --> 00:40:44,483
I am, uh, definitely, uh, heterosexual,
I guess you could say. [CHUCKLES]
851
00:40:44,567 --> 00:40:47,736
But it had to do, again, with girls.
I want you to know that. Girls.
852
00:40:47,820 --> 00:40:49,447
- [FEENEY] Yes, sir, I know.
- Okay.
853
00:40:49,530 --> 00:40:51,716
- Remember, it's girls. No guys.
- [FEENEY] Not any guys.
854
00:40:51,740 --> 00:40:53,510
- That's right.
- [FEENEY] Absolutely not, sir.
855
00:40:53,534 --> 00:40:55,035
- No guys.
- That's right. Right.
856
00:40:56,537 --> 00:40:59,373
The whole bottom line was
whether he was gay or not...
857
00:41:00,541 --> 00:41:03,836
it was that he didn't want nobody
to find out about it on TV.
858
00:41:04,712 --> 00:41:07,506
It entails, like, whipped cream
and champagne, stuff like that.
859
00:41:07,590 --> 00:41:09,750
- [WOMAN] Oh, my God!
- [AUDIENCE GASPING AND LAUGHING]
860
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,446
[FEENEY] When he finally did call you
after the show had been taped,
861
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:15,055
you made it pretty clear to him
in that phone conversation
862
00:41:15,139 --> 00:41:16,223
you were angry.
863
00:41:16,307 --> 00:41:18,517
And, in fact, you said gay what?
864
00:41:18,601 --> 00:41:21,020
- Bastards.
- [FEENEY] Sure that's all you said?
865
00:41:21,770 --> 00:41:25,024
I... It was something.
It was an expletive of that, whatever.
866
00:41:25,107 --> 00:41:26,692
[FEENEY] In fact, what you said
867
00:41:27,401 --> 00:41:30,029
began with an "F"
and ended with an "S," didn't it?
868
00:41:30,112 --> 00:41:31,989
- Yes.
- And you threw a chair, didn't you?
869
00:41:32,072 --> 00:41:33,072
Yes.
870
00:41:33,282 --> 00:41:34,617
[AMEDURE JR.] There's no excuses.
871
00:41:34,700 --> 00:41:35,993
There's reasons
872
00:41:36,577 --> 00:41:38,412
for why Jon did what he did.
873
00:41:38,496 --> 00:41:41,624
[FIEGER] Did you consider
that the note was offensive
874
00:41:41,707 --> 00:41:44,877
- or in any way a cause of the murder?
- It was meant to be a joke.
875
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,086
It was meant to be a joke.
876
00:41:46,170 --> 00:41:48,839
It was meant for a laugh,
to make Jon laugh.
877
00:41:49,590 --> 00:41:53,761
Whether it was that he felt
like his family was gonna find out
878
00:41:53,844 --> 00:41:57,806
that he was gay or that his family
was gonna think that he was gay...
879
00:41:57,890 --> 00:42:02,728
[FEENEY] Explain, please,
why you said that Jon had to kill Scott
880
00:42:02,811 --> 00:42:04,980
to prove he was not a homosexual,
881
00:42:05,523 --> 00:42:07,691
and that Jon felt
like he was being stalked.
882
00:42:07,775 --> 00:42:11,737
What does it say on the line before that,
or the question? May I see the statement?
883
00:42:18,035 --> 00:42:20,996
[FEENEY] You said
that the overwhelming humiliation
884
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:22,456
that he would have felt,
885
00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:25,918
that everybody thought
he was a homosexual.
886
00:42:26,001 --> 00:42:29,004
Right. How would you feel
if somebody thought you were a homosexual?
887
00:42:31,757 --> 00:42:37,263
And that's exactly what you communicated
to your son Jon. Right, sir?
888
00:42:39,723 --> 00:42:41,642
I was embarrassed. He was embarrassed.
889
00:42:42,851 --> 00:42:46,522
[WHELAN] When you watch the testimony
by Jonathan's father,
890
00:42:46,605 --> 00:42:48,190
you get a glimpse into...
891
00:42:49,066 --> 00:42:52,152
the household of the Schmitz
when Jonathan was growing up.
892
00:42:52,236 --> 00:42:54,905
- Thanks very much.
- Thank you for coming, Mr. Schmitz.
893
00:42:54,989 --> 00:42:56,991
[WHELAN] And I think that homophobia
894
00:42:57,074 --> 00:43:01,453
is a part of a lot
of young people's childhoods
895
00:43:01,537 --> 00:43:02,913
still in this country.
896
00:43:02,997 --> 00:43:06,500
It just shows the extent
of how far we have to go. [CHUCKLES]
897
00:43:06,584 --> 00:43:08,836
He shouldn't have been humiliated
to begin with.
898
00:43:10,004 --> 00:43:12,506
Well, in a perfect world, yeah.
899
00:43:12,590 --> 00:43:14,008
But it's not a perfect world.
900
00:43:14,091 --> 00:43:16,260
There's a lot of people
that are gonna be humiliated
901
00:43:16,343 --> 00:43:20,347
if they're thought of as being homosexual.
902
00:43:20,431 --> 00:43:24,143
It's not that I agree with it
or like it or, you know...
903
00:43:24,226 --> 00:43:25,894
Um, it's just a fact of life.
904
00:43:25,978 --> 00:43:30,065
To put a line around it
and say, "Homophobia, this is it."
905
00:43:30,149 --> 00:43:33,736
I'm not sure it's "it"
any more than any one thing is it.
906
00:43:33,819 --> 00:43:36,655
It's a sad story
with a lot of complicated pieces.
907
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,533
But it wouldn't have happened
908
00:43:39,617 --> 00:43:41,994
if it wasn't for The Jenny Jones Show.
909
00:43:42,077 --> 00:43:46,206
We're talking
about experimenting on people for ratings.
910
00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:47,458
Seeing what they'll do
911
00:43:47,541 --> 00:43:50,210
if we put 'em in a certain kind
of a situation.
912
00:43:50,711 --> 00:43:52,963
And that's what they did.
They lit the fuse.
913
00:43:55,424 --> 00:43:59,637
Now, which of these ways would you choose
to reveal your secret crush on someone?
914
00:44:00,179 --> 00:44:02,681
A, would you write that person a letter?
915
00:44:02,765 --> 00:44:05,976
B, would you tell the person in private
in case he rejects you?
916
00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:09,480
Or C, would you tell that person
that you're gay and you hope he is
917
00:44:09,563 --> 00:44:11,690
on national television
in front of millions?
918
00:44:11,774 --> 00:44:12,816
[AUDIENCE CHEERS]
919
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:17,613
On television, you have to turn reality
into a story.
920
00:44:17,696 --> 00:44:21,533
Jenny Jones is set to take the stand
herself in Pontiac, Michigan...
921
00:44:21,617 --> 00:44:24,286
[LICHTER] Not just trash talk shows,
but journalists
922
00:44:24,370 --> 00:44:28,582
recognize that you have to please people
who are expecting a story.
923
00:44:28,666 --> 00:44:30,226
[MAN 1] From a strategic point of view,
924
00:44:30,292 --> 00:44:32,211
Fieger needs to get a piece
of Jenny Jones.
925
00:44:32,294 --> 00:44:34,004
[MAN 2] She's the star of the show.
926
00:44:34,088 --> 00:44:36,149
I've been looking forward
to seeing her on the stand.
927
00:44:36,173 --> 00:44:40,678
[LICHTER] And when you turn a courtroom
into a studio...
928
00:44:40,761 --> 00:44:43,389
[NEWSWOMAN] Enter the family's
media-savvy attorney...
929
00:44:43,472 --> 00:44:45,683
[LICHTER] ...it ends up
looking like a story
930
00:44:45,766 --> 00:44:47,559
with good guys, bad guys,
931
00:44:47,643 --> 00:44:48,560
drama.
932
00:44:48,644 --> 00:44:50,437
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
933
00:44:50,521 --> 00:44:52,481
[FIEGER] Whenever I want her,
she'll be there.
934
00:44:52,564 --> 00:44:54,024
If they ever ask it. [CHUCKLES]
935
00:44:54,108 --> 00:44:57,695
[FIEGER] The media wants to use
anything they have.
936
00:44:57,778 --> 00:45:00,447
They want to use
the sensationalism of the trial.
937
00:45:00,531 --> 00:45:03,283
- [REPORTER] Ready to tell your side?
- [JONES] Yes, I sure am.
938
00:45:03,367 --> 00:45:05,160
[FIEGER] They wanna use Geoffrey Fieger.
939
00:45:05,244 --> 00:45:07,164
Geoffrey, thanks for joining us.
What happened...
940
00:45:07,246 --> 00:45:09,873
[FIEGER] They wanna create
another media experience.
941
00:45:09,957 --> 00:45:10,833
Well, I get that.
942
00:45:10,916 --> 00:45:12,876
She didn't look that good
when she came in.
943
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,480
Didn't look like she'd had much sleep.
944
00:45:14,545 --> 00:45:15,796
That's the way the media works.
945
00:45:15,879 --> 00:45:18,757
It really is TV talk shows on trial here.
946
00:45:18,841 --> 00:45:21,260
We resume our coverage
of The Jenny Jones...
947
00:45:21,343 --> 00:45:22,803
The story becomes the story.
948
00:45:22,886 --> 00:45:24,221
It should be a great trial.
949
00:45:24,304 --> 00:45:27,891
[FEENEY] They took real-life drama
and put it in front of a TV camera.
950
00:45:27,975 --> 00:45:29,893
What can we expect
in your examination of her?
951
00:45:29,977 --> 00:45:34,148
[FIEGER] I liken it to Colonel Kurtz's
final words in Apocalypse Now.
952
00:45:34,606 --> 00:45:35,606
"The horror.
953
00:45:36,650 --> 00:45:37,693
The horror."
954
00:45:38,610 --> 00:45:40,779
[FEENEY] At one point,
I think I was told it had,
955
00:45:40,863 --> 00:45:44,950
I don't know, 475,000 people or something
daily watching this thing.
956
00:45:45,033 --> 00:45:46,994
I tell you what. The trials I've had,
957
00:45:47,077 --> 00:45:50,456
if there are two or three people
sitting in the audience, uh, it's a lot.
958
00:45:53,041 --> 00:45:55,878
So you have a situation
that was really ironic
959
00:45:55,961 --> 00:45:58,881
because, I mean, Court TV is doing this
960
00:45:58,964 --> 00:46:02,885
for exactly the same reason
that another set of producers
961
00:46:02,968 --> 00:46:05,095
is being accused of doing it
for their own gain.
962
00:46:05,179 --> 00:46:08,891
This is Crime Stories.
It was a murder that put TV on trial.
963
00:46:08,974 --> 00:46:12,811
Now, that's a little different
than The Jenny Jones Show,
964
00:46:12,895 --> 00:46:17,232
where they were actually trying
to trick people and hurt people, okay.
965
00:46:17,316 --> 00:46:19,836
Where Court TV, I don't know
that they're trying to hurt people.
966
00:46:19,860 --> 00:46:23,030
They're just trying to make a bunch
of money off of this tragic event.
967
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:29,244
It's just who was covering the story
that really bothered me.
968
00:46:29,328 --> 00:46:32,998
If it was a completely other company
that was filming the court,
969
00:46:33,665 --> 00:46:34,875
that's one thing, but...
970
00:46:35,584 --> 00:46:37,544
it's the darn company we're suing.
971
00:46:37,628 --> 00:46:40,088
Since Warner Brothers owns Court TV,
972
00:46:40,172 --> 00:46:43,884
and Court TV's ratings have dramatically
shot up during this trial,
973
00:46:43,967 --> 00:46:45,367
they've made a fortune on that end.
974
00:46:45,803 --> 00:46:49,056
They're making money off my brother,
975
00:46:49,598 --> 00:46:50,641
and we're suing you,
976
00:46:50,724 --> 00:46:53,894
and yet you're over here
still making money off of him.
977
00:46:53,977 --> 00:46:57,773
Jenny Jones expected to take
the witness stand sometime this afternoon.
978
00:46:57,856 --> 00:46:59,696
You're not gonna want to miss it.
Stick around.
979
00:46:59,733 --> 00:47:04,029
There's no human aspect
to the decisions of making money.
980
00:47:04,112 --> 00:47:07,074
[FIEGER]
Okay, I call Jenny Jones to the stand.
981
00:47:08,951 --> 00:47:11,495
[AMEDURE JR.] It's just like why
they try to get somebody
982
00:47:11,578 --> 00:47:13,664
to break down and cry on a talk show.
983
00:47:13,747 --> 00:47:17,376
You know, even though that's gonna make
that person feel bad and awful or whatnot,
984
00:47:17,459 --> 00:47:19,753
they're gonna do it anyway
because that's what sells.
985
00:47:21,588 --> 00:47:24,675
There's a side of us
that are drawn to that kind of thing.
986
00:47:26,426 --> 00:47:28,345
That sadistic thing in all of us.
987
00:47:28,428 --> 00:47:31,148
We're gonna squeeze in a quick
commercial break. We'll be right back.
988
00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:35,686
[BIRDS CHIRPING]
989
00:47:38,730 --> 00:47:40,440
[FIEGER] It would be embarrassing to you
990
00:47:40,524 --> 00:47:42,860
to have somebody discuss with you here,
991
00:47:42,943 --> 00:47:45,737
without discussing it with you
in advance,
992
00:47:45,821 --> 00:47:48,866
somebody's fantasy about tying you up
to a hammock
993
00:47:48,949 --> 00:47:52,786
and licking whipped cream off of you
with strawberries and champagne...
994
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:54,913
That would be embarrassing, wouldn't it?
995
00:47:54,997 --> 00:47:56,206
It could be exciting.
996
00:47:56,290 --> 00:47:58,959
[FIEGER] Excuse me,
and it would also be embarrassing.
997
00:47:59,042 --> 00:48:00,335
[LAUGHTER]
998
00:48:00,419 --> 00:48:01,253
It wouldn't.
999
00:48:01,336 --> 00:48:02,337
She came on
1000
00:48:02,421 --> 00:48:06,300
and she had obviously been prepared
by Feeney or whoever.
1001
00:48:06,383 --> 00:48:10,262
If a stranger
or somebody just out of the blue
1002
00:48:10,345 --> 00:48:12,389
starts telling you sexual fantasies,
1003
00:48:12,472 --> 00:48:14,683
you wouldn't encourage somebody
to do that, would you?
1004
00:48:14,766 --> 00:48:16,452
They weren't strangers,
first of all. And...
1005
00:48:16,476 --> 00:48:19,104
I know Mr. Johnson.
1006
00:48:20,355 --> 00:48:21,356
We're not strangers,
1007
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,235
but are you suggesting that,
because Mr. Johnson and I know each other,
1008
00:48:25,319 --> 00:48:28,447
or Judge Schnelz and I,
or Mr. Feeney and I know each other...
1009
00:48:28,530 --> 00:48:30,592
[SCHNELZ] Leave Judge Schnelz out of this.
All right?
1010
00:48:30,616 --> 00:48:32,200
- [LAUGHTER]
- And...
1011
00:48:32,284 --> 00:48:34,995
And keep Mr. Feeney out
of your sexual fantasies too.
1012
00:48:35,078 --> 00:48:36,330
[LAUGHTER]
1013
00:48:36,413 --> 00:48:39,124
[NEWSMAN] Fieger was tenacious.
Jones didn't buckle.
1014
00:48:39,207 --> 00:48:40,887
[NEWSWOMAN] She was a challenge
for Fieger.
1015
00:48:40,959 --> 00:48:43,921
[FIEGER] I remember getting a feeling
of who she was,
1016
00:48:44,004 --> 00:48:46,715
and if I went certain ways,
how she would go.
1017
00:48:47,174 --> 00:48:49,551
[MAN] I think she's giving
as good as she gets so far.
1018
00:48:49,635 --> 00:48:51,345
She's impressing me, actually.
1019
00:48:51,428 --> 00:48:53,639
And then, I... I just create.
1020
00:48:53,722 --> 00:48:55,557
I just create my picture.
1021
00:48:56,850 --> 00:48:58,560
- Good morning, Miss Jones.
- Good morning.
1022
00:48:58,644 --> 00:49:00,062
- How are you?
- Fine, thanks.
1023
00:49:00,145 --> 00:49:01,145
Good.
1024
00:49:02,898 --> 00:49:05,317
Do you know that you're smiling?
1025
00:49:06,652 --> 00:49:08,862
I believe I'm smiling, yes. So are you.
1026
00:49:08,946 --> 00:49:10,656
You're not nervous, though, are you?
1027
00:49:10,739 --> 00:49:11,739
I'm not comfortable.
1028
00:49:11,782 --> 00:49:14,493
Right. And you smile
when you're not comfortable, don't you?
1029
00:49:14,576 --> 00:49:16,536
- Sometimes.
- That's what Jonathan Schmitz did,
1030
00:49:16,620 --> 00:49:17,454
isn't it?
1031
00:49:17,537 --> 00:49:20,499
[NEWSMAN] That was sort of a gotcha
on Fieger's part, right?
1032
00:49:20,582 --> 00:49:22,626
[NEWSWOMAN] It was a big touché
on Fieger's part...
1033
00:49:22,709 --> 00:49:26,296
[FIEGER] You use those people
as a form of entertainment.
1034
00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:27,380
Isn't that true?
1035
00:49:27,422 --> 00:49:29,716
- That's not quite the way I see it.
- [FIEGER] Oh, I see.
1036
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,135
Once you get her out of the box,
she... she was...
1037
00:49:32,219 --> 00:49:33,971
she was a helpless child.
1038
00:49:34,054 --> 00:49:36,306
You're the one who told Scott
1039
00:49:36,890 --> 00:49:40,602
to express the fantasy on the air,
aren't you?
1040
00:49:41,436 --> 00:49:42,771
If I don't talk to the guests...
1041
00:49:42,854 --> 00:49:45,273
Please answer my question.
Now, we're not gonna get along...
1042
00:49:45,732 --> 00:49:49,111
And she was helpless with Geoffrey Fieger,
which is not a good way to be.
1043
00:49:49,194 --> 00:49:51,113
And so, I could have my way with her.
1044
00:49:51,196 --> 00:49:53,076
I ask every question on the air.
It's what I do.
1045
00:49:53,115 --> 00:49:54,950
[FIEGER] No, you answer my question.
1046
00:49:55,033 --> 00:49:57,160
You're the person who asked Scott
1047
00:49:57,244 --> 00:50:00,330
to express the fantasy on the air,
aren't you?
1048
00:50:00,414 --> 00:50:02,791
- Of course I am.
- [FIEGER] Okay, show me the document
1049
00:50:03,291 --> 00:50:06,503
in which Jonathan Schmitz
gave you permission
1050
00:50:06,586 --> 00:50:09,589
to bring him on a national television show
1051
00:50:09,673 --> 00:50:15,512
and have another man describe
a lurid sexual fantasy about him.
1052
00:50:16,722 --> 00:50:19,016
We don't... We didn't ask for permission
for that.
1053
00:50:19,099 --> 00:50:19,933
[FIEGER] I know.
1054
00:50:20,017 --> 00:50:22,853
[NEWSWOMAN] No more laughter.
The jury was very stone-faced
1055
00:50:22,936 --> 00:50:25,522
as Geoffrey Fieger started hitting her
with some tough questions.
1056
00:50:25,605 --> 00:50:27,605
[NEWSMAN] Fieger put the heat
on Jones immediately.
1057
00:50:27,649 --> 00:50:29,359
[FIEGER] You wanted a reaction.
1058
00:50:30,277 --> 00:50:31,277
Didn't you?
1059
00:50:31,570 --> 00:50:33,490
Well, we want a reaction
through the entire show.
1060
00:50:33,530 --> 00:50:34,448
[FIEGER] Yes or no?
1061
00:50:34,531 --> 00:50:38,660
You wanted a reaction
from Jonathan Schmitz
1062
00:50:38,744 --> 00:50:43,081
so that the audience could be entertained
by his emotions,
1063
00:50:43,165 --> 00:50:44,207
whatever they were.
1064
00:50:44,291 --> 00:50:46,060
- Didn't you? Yes or no.
- No, not necessarily.
1065
00:50:46,084 --> 00:50:48,124
[FIEGER] You didn't know
what his emotions would be.
1066
00:50:48,170 --> 00:50:50,547
You didn't know if he'd be happy, right?
1067
00:50:51,131 --> 00:50:52,549
- Right?
- Right.
1068
00:50:52,632 --> 00:50:56,386
Fieger was winning in terms
of making Jenny Jones look bad.
1069
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:58,430
[FIEGER] You didn't know
if he'd be hurt inside,
1070
00:50:58,513 --> 00:50:59,513
- did you?
- No.
1071
00:50:59,556 --> 00:51:00,956
They didn't prepare her for Fieger.
1072
00:51:01,016 --> 00:51:02,893
There's no way to prepare
for Geoffrey Fieger.
1073
00:51:02,976 --> 00:51:05,437
[FIEGER] So you used him
as a source of entertainment,
1074
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,482
having no idea what his emotions would be,
1075
00:51:08,565 --> 00:51:10,358
for other people, didn't you?
1076
00:51:10,442 --> 00:51:13,612
No, that's not the way I see it.
I don't use people on the show.
1077
00:51:14,071 --> 00:51:15,989
They should never
have gone forward to trial.
1078
00:51:16,073 --> 00:51:18,742
Maybe Feeney talked them into it.
I don't know.
1079
00:51:18,825 --> 00:51:21,870
But, uh, they should never have
gone to trial on that case.
1080
00:51:21,953 --> 00:51:23,288
It gave me an opportunity.
1081
00:51:23,371 --> 00:51:25,916
If I was them, I would have said,
"No, I'm shutting this down.
1082
00:51:25,999 --> 00:51:27,751
Can't let Fieger do this to us."
1083
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:33,381
This is a case,
ladies and gentlemen, about exploitation
1084
00:51:33,465 --> 00:51:37,094
and about, ultimately, responsibility.
1085
00:51:37,177 --> 00:51:38,970
Because this is a tragedy,
1086
00:51:39,846 --> 00:51:42,224
Mr. Fieger,
on behalf of the Amedure family,
1087
00:51:42,307 --> 00:51:45,811
is appealing to the nicest part of you.
1088
00:51:45,894 --> 00:51:47,562
Warner Brothers complains
1089
00:51:47,646 --> 00:51:49,481
that there was nothing
they could have done.
1090
00:51:50,232 --> 00:51:53,485
The statements of lawyers
are not evidence.
1091
00:51:53,568 --> 00:51:55,195
How many lives
1092
00:51:55,946 --> 00:51:57,239
do they have to ruin?
1093
00:51:57,322 --> 00:52:00,283
The questions of lawyers are not evidence.
1094
00:52:00,367 --> 00:52:02,869
Who's next, Mr. Feeney?
Where does it stop?
1095
00:52:02,953 --> 00:52:05,664
Was it a natural and probable result?
1096
00:52:05,747 --> 00:52:08,416
Here you have to look at the evidence,
ladies and gentlemen.
1097
00:52:08,500 --> 00:52:11,128
If you embarrass him
and you humiliate him,
1098
00:52:11,211 --> 00:52:13,171
you can produce violence.
1099
00:52:13,255 --> 00:52:15,882
Is that something
that normally pops into our head?
1100
00:52:15,966 --> 00:52:17,092
"Gee, I'm embarrassed.
1101
00:52:18,218 --> 00:52:19,845
I think I'll go kill somebody"?
1102
00:52:19,928 --> 00:52:22,931
This is negligence, ladies and gentlemen.
1103
00:52:23,014 --> 00:52:27,269
This is the definition of negligence.
1104
00:52:27,352 --> 00:52:29,980
The reason that you can
find the show liable
1105
00:52:30,063 --> 00:52:32,149
is because they did something wrong,
1106
00:52:32,232 --> 00:52:33,942
and they did cause the death.
1107
00:52:34,025 --> 00:52:36,319
Negligence is the failure
to use ordinary care.
1108
00:52:36,403 --> 00:52:39,072
You have an opportunity
to render real justice.
1109
00:52:39,573 --> 00:52:41,992
It is reasonable for you
to come back with a conclusion
1110
00:52:42,075 --> 00:52:44,035
that the show was not negligent.
1111
00:52:44,119 --> 00:52:48,081
You see, because it's very difficult
in any other place except in America
1112
00:52:48,832 --> 00:52:51,293
that that little man and that woman
1113
00:52:51,376 --> 00:52:54,421
can stand up in a courtroom
equal to Warner Brothers
1114
00:52:54,504 --> 00:52:57,924
and say, "We got justice."
1115
00:52:58,383 --> 00:52:59,593
You do justice.
1116
00:53:00,177 --> 00:53:01,553
Thank you all.
1117
00:53:06,766 --> 00:53:08,476
[JUDGE] Was the defendant negligent
1118
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,229
in one or more of the ways
claimed by the plaintiff?
1119
00:53:11,313 --> 00:53:13,023
- How do you answer?
- [FOREMAN] Yes.
1120
00:53:13,815 --> 00:53:14,935
[JUDGE] Question number two.
1121
00:53:14,983 --> 00:53:18,528
Was the defendant's negligence
a proximate cause of injuries
1122
00:53:18,612 --> 00:53:20,155
or damage to the plaintiff?
1123
00:53:20,238 --> 00:53:21,907
How do you answer? Yes or no?
1124
00:53:21,990 --> 00:53:22,990
[FOREMAN] Yes.
1125
00:53:24,326 --> 00:53:26,328
[NEWSMAN] The judgment
was nearly unanimous.
1126
00:53:26,411 --> 00:53:29,164
Eight out of nine jurors
ruled in favor of damages...
1127
00:53:29,247 --> 00:53:31,875
[NEWSWOMAN] ...and awarded
the Amedure family $25 million.
1128
00:53:31,958 --> 00:53:35,754
They are proud to be the David
to a media Goliath.
1129
00:53:36,838 --> 00:53:39,216
Scott's here today shining over us.
1130
00:53:39,299 --> 00:53:40,759
He was here through the whole trial.
1131
00:53:40,842 --> 00:53:44,471
I guess I'm pretty proud
that we were able to...
1132
00:53:45,096 --> 00:53:45,931
Uh...
1133
00:53:46,014 --> 00:53:47,557
[AMEDURE JR.] We did what we came for.
1134
00:53:48,058 --> 00:53:50,227
To teach them guys you can't do that.
1135
00:53:50,852 --> 00:53:53,772
Maybe we'll do something
about these shows now that are happening,
1136
00:53:53,855 --> 00:53:56,066
and there won't be
no more killings, like...
1137
00:53:56,441 --> 00:53:58,151
- [EXHALES]
- [REPORTER] Mr. Amedure?
1138
00:53:58,235 --> 00:53:59,402
Excuse me. Excuse me.
1139
00:53:59,486 --> 00:54:00,987
Like I lost my son.
1140
00:54:05,742 --> 00:54:07,202
Warner Brothers was supportive.
1141
00:54:07,285 --> 00:54:09,579
I mean, they knew
that this was a possible outcome.
1142
00:54:09,663 --> 00:54:14,084
This has a profoundly chilling effect
not only on talk shows,
1143
00:54:14,167 --> 00:54:15,168
but on all the media.
1144
00:54:15,585 --> 00:54:19,673
And they were totally committed
to, uh, getting justice,
1145
00:54:19,756 --> 00:54:21,758
just like the Amedure family.
1146
00:54:21,841 --> 00:54:23,343
That is unprecedented
1147
00:54:23,426 --> 00:54:26,596
and will be absolutely overturned
by the Michigan Court of Appeals.
1148
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,431
Not only is it not unprecedented,
1149
00:54:28,515 --> 00:54:31,184
it's... it's contained
within the restatement of torts.
1150
00:54:31,268 --> 00:54:32,708
[NEWSMAN] Gentlemen, let me jump in.
1151
00:54:32,769 --> 00:54:34,896
As we've seen, I think the case is over,
1152
00:54:34,980 --> 00:54:37,399
but the debate continues
with Geoffrey Fieger, Jim Feeney.
1153
00:54:37,482 --> 00:54:40,318
Gentlemen, thanks for joining us
this morning. I appreciate the time.
1154
00:54:47,409 --> 00:54:52,789
Juries love to stick it
to big corporations behaving badly,
1155
00:54:53,290 --> 00:54:55,709
and there are a lot of things that, uh...
1156
00:54:55,792 --> 00:55:00,088
that are ethically, morally very bad,
1157
00:55:00,171 --> 00:55:01,923
uh, but are still legal
1158
00:55:02,340 --> 00:55:05,260
because it would be even worse
if you tried to make them illegal.
1159
00:55:06,594 --> 00:55:09,681
[FEENEY] The case should have been
dismissed before there was a trial.
1160
00:55:10,181 --> 00:55:16,438
There was no legal obligation
on the part of the show's producers
1161
00:55:16,521 --> 00:55:18,648
to influence the outcome
1162
00:55:18,732 --> 00:55:22,277
of what Jonathan Schmitz did
to Scott Amedure on March 9th.
1163
00:55:28,742 --> 00:55:31,619
Journalists every day set up sources
1164
00:55:31,703 --> 00:55:34,914
knowing that they're going to betray them,
in a certain way,
1165
00:55:34,998 --> 00:55:36,333
for the public interest,
1166
00:55:36,416 --> 00:55:38,960
to get important material
out to the public.
1167
00:55:39,044 --> 00:55:40,044
And...
1168
00:55:40,337 --> 00:55:41,337
[SIGHS]
1169
00:55:41,838 --> 00:55:45,675
Trash TV may make you cringe,
but it would make you cringe a lot more
1170
00:55:45,759 --> 00:55:49,137
if you lost the First Amendment
in getting rid of trash TV.
1171
00:55:49,220 --> 00:55:51,100
Remember, the Supreme Court
of the United States
1172
00:55:51,181 --> 00:55:52,640
gave the Dred Scott decision,
1173
00:55:52,724 --> 00:55:55,185
which upheld slavery,
so that doesn't make it right.
1174
00:55:55,268 --> 00:55:58,313
So we're gonna compare the Jenny Jones
verdict to the Dred Scott case.
1175
00:55:58,396 --> 00:55:59,996
- I'm not diverting.
- Come on, Geoffrey.
1176
00:56:00,023 --> 00:56:02,108
That was pretty satisfying, uh...
1177
00:56:02,776 --> 00:56:05,403
and pretty satisfying to have, uh, a 30...
1178
00:56:05,487 --> 00:56:09,449
what was then, I think,
about $33 million with interest...
1179
00:56:09,532 --> 00:56:11,034
uh, maybe 35.
1180
00:56:11,117 --> 00:56:12,994
It could have been 35, taken away.
1181
00:56:14,371 --> 00:56:18,249
Not one person can name
any of those jurists who took it away,
1182
00:56:18,333 --> 00:56:19,417
and the minute they died,
1183
00:56:19,501 --> 00:56:22,462
nobody remembered that they ever lived
on the face of the earth.
1184
00:56:22,545 --> 00:56:24,881
And people still remember Scott Amedure.
1185
00:56:24,964 --> 00:56:28,760
And I think that I would rather have that
than all the money in the world.
1186
00:56:36,601 --> 00:56:39,521
[GIBSON] See, there's no winning in this.
Everybody's lost.
1187
00:56:41,981 --> 00:56:43,483
The Amedures, they've lost a son,
1188
00:56:43,566 --> 00:56:45,446
and the Schmitzes,
for all intents and purposes,
1189
00:56:45,485 --> 00:56:49,155
have lost a son for a number of years,
although he'll be back, yes.
1190
00:56:50,615 --> 00:56:53,326
But this was like an octopus,
this whole case.
1191
00:56:54,369 --> 00:56:57,497
The tentacles reached out,
and everybody it touched, it harmed.
1192
00:56:57,580 --> 00:57:00,166
And nobody's going to win.
Nobody's ever going to win.
1193
00:57:01,626 --> 00:57:04,379
[LICHTER] When a trial becomes a story,
1194
00:57:04,462 --> 00:57:08,341
you are buying into the notion
that there's closure.
1195
00:57:09,467 --> 00:57:12,470
And the problem is that in real life,
there's never closure.
1196
00:57:14,514 --> 00:57:16,141
The answers are not clear.
1197
00:57:16,224 --> 00:57:17,851
And when the answers aren't clear,
1198
00:57:17,934 --> 00:57:20,019
you keep asking the question
over and over.
1199
00:57:21,646 --> 00:57:26,568
I know that in the months and years
after this tragedy,
1200
00:57:26,651 --> 00:57:29,988
Jenny Jones was never
the least bit apologetic.
1201
00:57:30,071 --> 00:57:33,491
The one thing that I sort of
come away with after all this
1202
00:57:33,575 --> 00:57:36,119
is I really am just very cynical
about the press.
1203
00:57:36,703 --> 00:57:38,121
[REPORTER] Any regrets, Jon?
1204
00:57:38,705 --> 00:57:40,790
You know, this was a rush to judgment.
1205
00:57:40,874 --> 00:57:44,461
It was unfair reporting
for the sake of a sensational story.
1206
00:57:45,378 --> 00:57:48,047
[BRASIER] This was a story that had legs.
1207
00:57:48,131 --> 00:57:49,841
We were getting great readership.
1208
00:57:50,425 --> 00:57:53,970
But I always had this kind of uneasy feel
about what we were doing
1209
00:57:54,053 --> 00:57:55,680
because in our coverage,
1210
00:57:55,763 --> 00:57:58,808
we were exploiting people
who'd been exploiting people.
1211
00:57:59,350 --> 00:58:03,146
And, you know,
did we harm the people involved?
1212
00:58:03,646 --> 00:58:04,646
Maybe.
1213
00:58:05,190 --> 00:58:07,942
I-I'm still uneasy about...
about the coverage.
1214
00:58:21,539 --> 00:58:22,779
[AMEDURE JR.] I came to a point
1215
00:58:22,832 --> 00:58:25,877
where I wouldn't do
any more interviews anymore,
1216
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,797
and I didn't care to deal with anybody
in the media.
1217
00:58:31,132 --> 00:58:32,732
That would probably be one of the things
1218
00:58:32,759 --> 00:58:35,178
if I ever was gonna question again
might be,
1219
00:58:36,179 --> 00:58:38,056
could we have done
all that stuff differently?
1220
00:58:38,139 --> 00:58:41,226
Did we have to fall
into the trap of the media?
1221
00:58:41,893 --> 00:58:43,603
The trial by media.
1222
00:58:43,686 --> 00:58:46,564
Did we really need
to go on all them television shows?
1223
00:58:46,648 --> 00:58:50,276
Could we have just all remained silent
and went through this whole trial?
1224
00:58:50,777 --> 00:58:53,363
And would that have maybe been better?
I don't know.
1225
00:58:56,616 --> 00:58:59,160
It did set a... a tone in my life
1226
00:58:59,244 --> 00:59:02,956
that was like being in a dream
or in a movie.
1227
00:59:06,125 --> 00:59:08,336
Some of it put me in awe,
1228
00:59:09,254 --> 00:59:13,007
and some of it got me angry,
and some of it got me sad,
1229
00:59:13,091 --> 00:59:14,634
and some of it made me proud,
1230
00:59:15,468 --> 00:59:18,388
and the movie just kept going and going.
1231
00:59:24,769 --> 00:59:28,106
I actually had to pay some company
to come and get his trailer.
1232
00:59:28,565 --> 00:59:30,316
It was all messed up from the...
1233
00:59:31,609 --> 00:59:33,653
gun thing, so nobody would ever want it.
1234
00:59:35,154 --> 00:59:36,698
So it went to a junkyard.
1235
00:59:39,951 --> 00:59:43,580
I just wish that he'd be understood
for who he is
1236
00:59:43,663 --> 00:59:49,085
and not some gay person that confessed
his crush to somebody on TV
1237
00:59:49,168 --> 00:59:51,170
as if he was a criminal or something.
1238
00:59:52,839 --> 00:59:54,215
He didn't want to hurt nobody.
1239
00:59:54,299 --> 00:59:58,177
I think if he would have known
that Schmitz felt the way he did,
1240
00:59:58,261 --> 00:59:59,461
that he wouldn't have done it.
1241
01:00:01,097 --> 01:00:03,641
I think that he just wanted to be on TV.
1242
01:00:12,692 --> 01:00:14,652
[MAN] What do you think
he would be doing today?
1243
01:00:17,155 --> 01:00:19,157
He might be working with you guys.
1244
01:00:19,907 --> 01:00:23,369
He would have loved that kind...
This kind of stuff. This is his thing.
1245
01:00:25,079 --> 01:00:26,748
Yeah, he'd have loved this stuff.
1246
01:00:30,877 --> 01:00:33,796
My guests today are romantically involved
with their own cousins.
1247
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:35,506
[AUDIENCE GASPING]
1248
01:00:35,590 --> 01:00:37,717
[REPORTER] Hey, how does it feel
to be free?
1249
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,487
- [BLEEP] off. Get away from us.
- [REPORTER] How's it feel to be free?
1250
01:00:40,511 --> 01:00:41,346
[BLEEP] you.
1251
01:00:41,429 --> 01:00:43,765
[REPORTER] Do you have anything to say
to Scott's family?
1252
01:00:43,848 --> 01:00:46,017
- Huh?
- You need a real job, mister.
1253
01:00:46,100 --> 01:00:48,645
[ANNOUNCER] Is your teen
dressing or acting too sexy?
1254
01:00:48,728 --> 01:00:51,147
We're gonna tell you what's fake
and real on these women.
1255
01:00:51,230 --> 01:00:52,430
We're gonna start with Rachel.
1256
01:00:53,232 --> 01:00:55,109
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]