[HOST] This is a secret she told us about you.
[AUDIENCE GASPING]
Ay-yay-yay.
I have something to tell you.
Um, I've been having an affair
- for the past five months. - [AUDIENCE GASPING]
I get sick and tired of seeing Uncle Tom here
sucking up, trying to be a white...
[ALL SHOUTING]
Only slightly the worse for the wear. [CHUCKLES]
- Today is a shocking true story... - Gonna be a good show...
- Are you in fact sleeping with Leo? - Yes, I am.
Is this a wig?
[AUDIENCE SHOUTING]
If you call her all these names, why did you marry her?
'Cause I needed a place to live.
[AUDIENCE SHOUTING AND LAUGHING]
- Are you sexually active? - Mm-hmm.
[RAPHAEL] Okay, Mom, there's your answer. You didn't ask, but I did.
- She's very much a slut. - [AUDIENCE GASPING]
[NEWSMAN] Several talk shows have been under fire...
These shows are no longer places where intelligent information is exchanged.
- [AUDIENCE] Jerry! - I think our show is addictive.
I'm really a man.
[AUDIENCE] Oh!
The most vulnerable are being exploited and manipulated.
[MAN] These people are not sophisticated enough...
That's elitist, isn't it?
What do you mean, they're not sophisticated? This is America.
[AUDIENCE SHOUTING]
It's fun. The adrenaline.
It's, like, you know, it's so awesome.
People have gotten so confused between shame and fame.
[JONES] You'll find The Jenny Jones Show to be probably
the most fun talk show on the air.
[ANNOUNCER] These guys are way over the line.
[JONES] Probably 80 percent of our shows are either makeovers
or reunions or secret crush.
Talk shows are killing the nation.
This is not wrestling! It's a talk show!
It's like saying that refrigerator in the kitchen
is what's making me fat.
Well, hello. It's not.
- [WOMAN] There are no boundaries anymore. - Reality is reflecting Hollywood.
[NEWSWOMAN] The former producer says
the competitive talk show market could be creating a dangerous environment.
Hopefully, we've hit the bottom. I mean, how much worse can it get?
- [MAN] I think I just shot a man. - [911 OPERATOR] Okay.
- [MAN] I'm just turning myself in. - [911 OPERATOR] Okay.
[MAN] I just shot this guy!
[911 OPERATOR] Okay, why did you do that?
[MAN] Because he played a very bad fucking thing on me.
He took me on Jenny Jones.
[JONES] Let's have Jon come out here and see who has the crush on him.
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
Guess what? It's Scott that has the crush on you.
You lied to me. [LAUGHS]
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
[APPLAUSE]
Did you have any idea that he liked you this much?
Um, no. No.
[CHUCKLING] No, I did not.
[NEWSMAN 1] A few days after the taping,
Jonathan Schmitz showed up at Scott Amedure's mobile home.
[NEWSMAN 2] ...killed by two blasts from a shotgun...
[NEWSMAN 1] Shot him twice in the chest. Amedure died on the floor of his home.
[CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING]
- [SIREN WAILING] - [REPORTER] Any... Any regrets, Jon?
[TENSE MUSIC PLAYS]
[TYPEWRITER CLACKING]
[TYPEWRITER BELL DINGS]
[DISTORTED SOUNDS]
[BIRDS CHIRPING]
[KITTEN MEOWS]
[MAN MEOWS]
- [KITTEN MEOWS] - [MAN MEOWS]
[KITTEN MEOWS]
[MAN MEOWS]
[KITTEN MEOWS]
[MAN MEOWS]
- [KITTEN MEOWS] - [MAN MEOWS]
[MAN] On my brother's 25th anniversary of his death,
we had a cat have a heart embolism.
And there really wasn't anything that we could do about it.
And then we got lucky and found this one.
And she's got, like, a little goatee.
Aw, she's a little sweetheart.
My name's Frank Amedure,
and my brother Scott Amedure was murdered
after he was on The Jenny Jones Show back in 1995.
Now, there's me.
I'm the oldest.
W...
Wayne.
Mike.
And that was Scott.
So Scott was still in diapers in that picture.
Scott always wanted to be on TV, in the...
the limelight.
This is him with a girl that played on One Day At a Time.
I think her name's Julie Cooper.
[CLEARS THROAT]
Here's some Army picture.
I found out that he was gay
when he was still in the service.
And, uh, it was never really a big deal.
Surprisingly, even my dad didn't have any issues with it.
And here's Scott showing off his muscles.
As you know, he was a soldier. He wasn't, like, a wimpy guy.
If, um, Jonathan Schmitz would have came after him without a gun,
and with a knife or...
something, or just a physical confrontation,
Scott would have whupped his ass all over the place.
[CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING]
[REPORTER] Any... And regrets, Jon?
[SIREN WAILING]
[MAN] Jonathan Schmitz was 24 years old.
He worked at, uh, a local restaurant no longer in existence
called the Fox & Hounds across the street.
Jonathan and Scott met through Donna Riley.
[FEENEY] Donna lived in an apartment complex
where Jonathan lived
and where Scott Amedure's brother lived.
Scott came over one day to see his brother,
and Jonathan was fixing Donna Riley's car,
her brakes, at the time, out in the parking lot of this building.
Scott was quite the handyman.
He was kind of a homemade electrician.
He knew how to do stuff like that.
That's how they met.
Do you have a secret crush you'd like to reveal to a same-sex friend?
Call 312-836-9455.
[FEENEY] Scott was a big fan of The Jenny Jones Show.
It was known from friends of his
that he watched the show on a regular basis.
I think that Scott Amedure genuinely liked Jonathan,
and I think that he thought
this would be a way to kind of move this thing along.
[FEENEY] That's how it got started.
And then the television show contacted Jonathan.
[CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING]
They said, "You've been identified by someone"
who has a secret crush on you.
It could be a man.
"It could be a woman."
Um...
And he would have to come on the show to find out who the individual was.
[CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING]
[MAN] Jonathan Schmitz had a very gentle soul.
I mean, he was a real nice,
sweet, decent guy
who was manipulated, used, pushed around,
tormented, and triggered into doing something terrible.
[BRASIER] So many of the murder cases that I cover are cut-and-dried.
There was none of that here.
There were so many issues that I grappled with,
and to this day, I still haven't resolved in my mind.
[NEWSWOMAN] It was the news media that greeted Jon Schmitz...
[NEWSMAN 1] Jonathan Schmitz faces a first-degree murder charge...
[NEWSMAN 2] Schmitz's parents sobbed when they heard details of the crime.
It was a difficult trial, even though, frankly, as a prosecutor,
I've never seen a clearer case of first-degree premeditated murder.
Last one? Three...
have requested a...
This was a big deal because nobody had committed murder
as a result of being on a trash talk show.
[AMEDURE JR.] The methods of the show were outrageous and immoral,
but I think Jonathan Schmitz still committed murder one,
and he should pay for that crime.
[LICHTER] Are you responsible yourself,
or is the person who put you into that situation responsible?
[MAN] You cannot kill
another human being for words spoken by that human being.
Embarrassment is not an excuse for murder.
[WOMAN] In everyday life, a lot of people will be embarrassed,
but the law is intended to protect people from criminal acts,
not to give people a pass... [CHUCKLES]
For murdering somebody
because they have some characteristic that you don't like about them.
[JUDGE] All right. He appears to have pulled the gloves on, counsel.
In the 1990s, Hollywood figured out
that the best soap opera is real life.
This is not an arrangement or an understanding.
This is a marriage.
You know, I'm not sitting here as some little woman
standing by my man like Tammy Wynette.
Previously private things were coming out in the news,
as well as, uh, in entertainment.
- You want to inform. - [SIGHS]
- You also have to entertain. - Yes.
You have to draw an audience.
- Right. Well... - Every day you have to make this decision.
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
[DONAHUE] They won't watch male strippers five days a week.
They watch them from time to time.
[DONAHUE] Certainly, and you'd better haul 'em out once in a while
if you wanna survive in the daytime arena.
[LICHTER] Every television show deals with ratings,
and, uh, if you don't compete well, you're not gonna be there.
[ANNOUNCER] Jenny Jones has something different for your daytime.
Boy, do I have a show for you.
[ANNOUNCER] Here's a program you can relate to.
- [APPLAUSE] - [JONES] This is gonna be a good show
'cause today we're gonna talk about women and stress.
[LICHTER] Jenny Jones started out wanting to be Oprah Winfrey.
[JONES] Has anybody made this at home? Done potpourris?
You want color. You want texture. You want smell.
[LICHTER] But she quickly discovered
that her show was more popular as Jerry Springer.
[JONES] How do you know this isn't your baby then?
I just... uh...
You lied to me. You're a dog.
You're a snake. You're conniving. You're a slut.
[APPLAUSE]
[FEENEY] Jenny Jones, Sally Jessy Raphael,
Ricki Lake, Jerry Springer,
Maury Povich, Montel Williams,
they all had the same type of formats,
and the term "ambush television"
referred to television episodes
that were kept secret from the participants.
[LICHTER] These shows function on emotional drama and catharsis.
Today we're reuniting couples who have had one-night stands.
Come on out, Garrett.
[APPLAUSE]
[LICHTER] So you have to get people who can be manipulated
into a situation where that's what they give out.
Two months after the night we slept together,
I found out I was pregnant.
[AUDIENCE GASPING]
- [JONES] Do you see a resemblance? - [AUDIENCE] Yes.
It's easy to forget that these are real people
with real secrets that are being exposed.
- [JONES] What does it feel like? Is it... - [SCOFFS] Scary. I mean, I don't know.
You know, what kind of entertainment is that? But you know what that is.
That's just, like, the rubberneck effect, you know,
where people are driving down the highway and there's a real bad accident,
everybody wants to look and see blood.
[BURDICK] Sort of a schadenfreude thing, too,
you know, watching other people's troubles.
"Eh, our life isn't so bad when I see these idiots on television."
Kinda makes you feel normal after you watch that.
People watch. People want that kind of sensationalism,
that kind of voyeurism.
I don't think Jenny Jones started out
trying to lower the common denominator of life on television.
I slept with my mother's best friend.
[ANNOUNCER] And you won't believe what else you'll hear.
She just discovered that's the way you're a success.
Now, which of these ways would you choose
to reveal your secret crush on someone?
A, would you write that person a letter?
B, would you tell the person in private in case he rejects you?
Or C, would you tell that person that you're gay
and you hope he is on national television in front of millions of people?
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
He knows you're gay, right?
- [SCOTT] Yeah. - [JONES] Do you know that he is?
- [WOMAN] No. - Anything's possible.
[LAUGHS]
You hope. You hope. Do you have any reason to think he is, Donna? I mean...
Um, not really. He, um...
He said that his family kinda question him on it.
What is it that's so exciting about him to you?
Um, he's got a cute little hard body.
[AUDIENCE LAUGHS]
Um, you know, one you just wanna pick up and put in your curio cabinet,
you know, dust him off once in a while.
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
- He's cute. - [JONES] You wanna physically pick him up?
Oh, he's just a tiny little cute thing.
- He's gorgeous. - [AUDIENCE LAUGHS]
Well, all right. Let's see if he really is.
Get the headphones off of Jon,
and let's have Jon come out here and see who has the crush on him.
Here's Jon.
[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]
[JON LAUGHING]
[JONES] Hi, Jon.
- Did you think Donna had the crush on you? - Did I? No, we're good friends.
[JONES] Guess what? It's Scott that has the crush on you.
You lied to me. [LAUGHS]
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
[APPLAUSE]
Interesting.
Uh, before we chat, take a look at... We'll show a little playback
of what Scott said about you, Jon. Take a look at that monitor there.
Um, I got a pretty big hammock in my yard, and I just...
Yeah, I thought about tying him up to my hammock.
- [AUDIENCE LAUGHS] - Um...
[JONES] And?
Well, it entails, like, whipped cream and champagne, stuff like that.
[WOMAN] Oh, my God!
[APPLAUSE]
Oh...
Did you have any idea that he liked you this much?
Um, no, no.
No, I did not.
Can you tell us what your status is? Are you involved with anybody, or...
Um, no.
But I am, uh, definitely heterosexual, I guess you could say.
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
It was pretty clear that he was emotionally, um, distraught.
- Jon, how you doing? Okay? - [JON] I'm doing good.
What stuck out was the way Jenny Jones was priming the audience...
Would you tell that person that you're gay
and you hope he is on national television in front of millions?
[CHEERING]
Telling them the titillating situation that was about to occur.
- [JONES] Here's Jon. - [CHEERING]
When he first walked out on the stage...
It's not clear whether he thinks the secret admirer is Donna or Scott.
I actually thought Jonathan came out
and was very good-natured.
And then there's an awkward embrace.
An awkward embrace.
You can't really tell who's reacting to who.
[PENDERGAST] Then the bomb was dropped on him.
[JONES] Guess what? Scott has the crush on you.
You lied to me. [LAUGHS]
[AUDIENCE CHEERING AND LAUGHING]
[APPLAUSE]
Interesting.
He had, you know, that frozen smile on his face.
He's smiling in an excessive sort of way.
He's clearly uncomfortable.
Take a look at that monitor.
Um, I got a pretty big hammock in my yard, and I just...
Yeah, I thought about tying him up to my hammock.
She knew what she was doing. And she asked snappy questions.
[JONES] And?
She earned her money.
Well, it entails, like, whipped cream and champagne, stuff like that.
[BURDICK] I mean, if she had been an honest and decent person,
- she would have said... - [TAPE STOPS]
"Stop the cameras." You know, "Let's... Let's stop right here."
[CHEERING AND LAUGHTER]
He puts his hands up over his face.
[LAUGHTER]
Did you have any idea that he liked you this much?
Um, no, no. No, I did not.
Jonathan is kind of sitting there with either no expression on his face,
or a grin, or a chuckle, or a smile.
Pretty quickly, Jonathan said, "I'm a hundred percent heterosexual."
I guess you could say.
[WHELAN] He determined in that moment
it was important for the audience to understand
that he wasn't gay.
He seemed a little uncomfortable, but nothing over the top.
I don't think anybody saw what was coming, but you could see
that he was not comfortable with what was going on there.
- Are you very disappointed? - No, actually. No, no.
- You know, the thing is... - [JONES] It's a nice compliment.
If nothing else, it's a nice compliment to pay somebody. We'll take a break...
No one threatens anybody.
There's no physical confrontation.
Nobody accuses anybody.
It's pretty normal stuff.
Afterwards, Donna, Jonathan, and Scott were hanging out together.
So there was no overt signs that Jonathan was troubled
to the point that he would do something dramatic.
[BURDICK] Did the defendant voice any displeasure about being on the show?
- No. - [BURDICK] Did he voice any anger
towards Scott Amedure?
No.
And then Scott apparently left a...
provocative sexual note
where Jonathan would find it.
That was the third day after the show.
[PENDERGAST] Scott left a suggestive note on Jonathan's doorway,
along with one of those flashing construction lights.
I believe the note said something to the effect of,
"You have the tool to turn this off."
[MAN] He just indicated he became angry,
and, uh, at that point, he indicated he just made a decision to kill Amedure.
So Jonathan went to the bank.
[PENDERGAST] He then went and purchased ammunition.
He then went and bought a gun.
He was very cool, calm, and collected.
[BURDICK] Was he rude to you?
Oh, not... not in the least, no. Very...
Very polite young man.
[BRASIER] And then he drove to Scott's mobile home in Orion Township.
Knocked on the door. There was some sort of discussion.
[STOUT] At that point, he told Scott he had to go out and shut his car off.
He exited the residence and retrieved the shotgun.
[BRASIER] There was a man in the house who testified.
[BRADY] Scott stood back from the door and said,
"Gary, help. He's got a gun."
He used the shotgun in a sweeping motion to knock the door back open.
At that point, uh, Amedure grabbed a wicker chair,
pulled it up in front of him,
and was kind of backing away from the door.
And at that point, the gun went off. There was a shot.
[AMEDURE JR.] When he described what happened,
the smoke coming from his body and the wheezing and things,
um...
it had to be an awful thing for him to, uh...
be there.
And then wait for the ambulance and all that.
This is us in Ohio,
before we moved to Pittsburgh.
So, I went over to the house.
I was real high on adrenaline.
My heart was racing the whole time.
And, uh, you know, I had the radio on.
I guess it was like I needed to get there
and find out if what I was hearing was true.
And I walked up, and these detectives came up to me.
They told me that I'd better get a lawyer.
That it was gonna be a media circus.
And that's when everything became, like, unreal.
[NEWSWOMAN] Thirty-two-year-old Scott Amedure is dead...
[NEWSMAN] Amedure died Thursday, killed by two blasts from a shotgun.
I don't know what happened. I have no idea. I'm just in shock.
It had to do with the Jenny... Jenny Jones taping.
I don't think they've showed it yet.
'Cause we were waiting to see it ourselves.
And that one scene where they're taking my brother out on the...
in the body bag,
um, I was standing there.
Nothing has ever been the same ever since that.
[NEWSMAN 1] Later, Jonathan Schmitz shot and killed...
[NEWSWOMAN 1] The suspect turned his weapon and himself over to police.
[NEWSMAN 2] A few days after the taping, back in Michigan,
a chagrined Schmitz showed up at Amedure's mobile home.
[NEWSWOMAN 2] Investigators have a confession and eyewitness.
[NEWSMAN 3] Schmitz then called 911 and confessed.
Now he's on trial for first-degree murder.
[LICHTER] In the 1990s, people started looking at a courtroom
as a kind of television set.
How much interest has this particular case generated?
A lot of interest.
[LICHTER] It's not just people involved in the case who can experience it.
[ANNOUNCER] You never know what to expect from Court TV's
live daytime trial coverage.
[LICHTER] It's everybody around the country,
and so it becomes fodder for entertainment.
Court TV took what was already a big story and blew it up.
[PENDERGAST] Gavel-to-gavel coverage is what they boasted about.
Every witness, every motion, every everything.
[BRASIER] This was sensational in so many ways, and not good ways.
And because of the celebrity,
because of the brutality of this murder,
this was hitting all of those buttons.
It was sensational enough that they knew if they parked their camera at that court,
they were gonna have a pretty good feed every single day.
[PENDERGAST] After Jonathan killed Scott,
he went to a pay telephone.
He called 911.
He indicated that he had just shot Scott
because he had been embarrassed on national TV.
[RECORDING PLAYS]
- [SCHMITZ] I think I just shot a man. - [911 OPERATOR] Okay.
[SCHMITZ] I'm just turning myself in.
[911 OPERATOR] Okay. Can you tell me what happened?
[SCHMITZ] I just walked in and fucking killed him.
[911 OPERATOR] I just want you to try to relax.
Can you take a deep breath for me?
[SCHMITZ SOBBING]
I know you're upset, okay?
We're gonna help you, though.
- He's fairly hysterical here? - Yes.
[BURDICK] After the shooting,
he got in his car and he drove to a gas station, called the police.
I mean, does that sound like a guy who's out there
looking to... to murder somebody?
Is he anxious to murder somebody?
No. He just...
It happened, and he called because that's the kind of guy he is.
"I did something wrong. Now I gotta pay for it.
I have to confess. I have to give it up."
[MAN] Ladies and gentlemen, there was no murder here.
There was a shooting, but there was no murder.
[BURDICK] That was a case of what his motivations were
and whether he was doing what he was doing on purpose.
He was bipolar.
He had a syndrome of affective disorder,
and he has depression reoccurring.
He said he has made attempts of suicide.
Jonathan had taken a whole bottle of my heart medicine.
This was a young man who had a lot of baggage.
And he stated that his father was an abusive father.
I found out that Jon had been, uh, skipping class.
And, uh...
I... I punished him.
I took off my belt, and I pulled his hair and strapped him on the, uh, butt
as I took him into class.
- [BURDICK] In front of the class? - Yes.
He had very serious Graves' disease, which also causes misfires in the brain.
When I saw him, it was quite advanced.
He was very severely thyrotoxic.
[MAN] Most people who have hyperthyroidism
can continue on without killing somebody. Is that correct?
Correct.
I had Graves' disease myself and, uh, I had some depression.
But depression doesn't make people go out and kill people,
so I think that's just, uh, reaching for straws there.
[BURDICK] And then, after the show,
Jon was completely humiliated and... and revealed his humiliation.
Not in so many words,
but only an idiot wouldn't see how humiliated he was.
No.
It shouldn't be humiliating.
Imagine if every time a woman is hit on in a bar,
she can just fly into a rage and kill that person.
When Scott attempted to hug him, he felt literally trapped...
Instead of saying, "Jeez, I'm sorry, kid," you know.
"We were just having a little fun. It went too far.
Didn't mean to embarrass you..."
No.
He took the other route.
Push, push, push. Leave these little notes.
He kept pushing him further and further,
this guy with a very delicate psychiatric situation.
If he knew the word "fragile," he would tell him, "I'm really fragile."
That's what he was trying to tell him.
And Amedure basically told him,
"I'll do anything that I wanna do with you or anybody else,
so fuck off."
Can I say that on Netflix?
"So, fuck off."
That's when he went out into the car, pulled out the gun, loaded it up,
walked to the front door again,
holding it like this. Not pointed at him.
[BURDICK] Is there a significance to the fact
that Jon did not come back with the gun
charging in the house, shooting?
It's a non-predatory stance.
Yes, it's true that I saw the defendant
standing on the stoop with a gun in his hands.
Now what else do you need to know here, sir?
Instead of saying, "Jeez, Jon. I'm sorry, ah..."
he picks up a chair.
And the next thing you saw was Scott picking up a chair. Correct?
I'm not sure of the sequence.
And he says, "Get the fuck out of here." And he starts to throw it.
You gotta be careful with Burdick. [LAUGHS]
I remember... I remember there was a wicker chair.
That was the moment that Jon's mind totally snapped.
That's when Jonathan turns the gun on him and shoots him.
I mean, if anybody was asking to get killed that day...
I guess when I walked out of the courtroom,
it wasn't so much that I was angry.
I, uh...
I felt that I just wanted everybody to know that,
uh, you know, this is a bunch of bull.
[PROSECUTOR] They've thrown a number of defenses at you.
The shotgun approach.
Maybe it was self-defense.
Maybe it was a flashback to childhood.
We have to separate this case.
Certainly not first-degree. It's not second-degree murder
because there was no ability to form an intent,
unless you believe that Jon wasn't suffering from any mental disorder.
And there was no ability to form enough of an intent
for the prosecution to be able to prove to you,
beyond a reasonable doubt, manslaughter.
[NEWSWOMAN] If the jury decides he is not guilty of first-degree murder,
then they have to decide on several other options.
[BURDICK] I don't know how I convinced him. I got the judge to use
lesser included offenses of second-degree,
voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter.
And then I got him to agree
to discharge of a weapon in the city limits,
injury or death resulting,
which is a two-year misdemeanor. [CHUCKLES]
[BRASIER] They deliberated over a few days.
And then, of course, the judge is very concerned
about they're gonna be influenced by this massive media presence.
[FOREMAN] Our verdict, um,
as to the charge of first-degree premeditated murder
is guilty of the lesser offense of second-degree murder.
[BRASIER] That could have clearly been a first-degree murder conviction.
And I think that's testament to how good his defense attorneys were.
Jonathan's reaction after the verdict
was like Jonathan's reaction on The Jenny Jones Show.
His face was a mask.
You could not tell what Jon's real reaction was.
You will not be able to tell...
[AMEDURE JR.] The jury and the media
was sorry for Schmitz,
and so he got off with murder two.
Do you... Did you like Jonathan?
Absolutely. I told my husband right after the trial started
that I wouldn't even mind having a son like that.
I think he's a wonderful person, and it's just...
uh, it's an unhappy set of circumstances.
The final episode Wednesday of the so-called talk show murder trial.
It was sentencing day for convicted killer Jonathan Schmitz.
[JUDGE] A minimum of 25 years in state prison,
maximum not more than 50 years.
I can tell you that, uh, the reaction was not just heartbreak.
I think it was probably more like shattered.
[AMEDURE JR.] I've even talked to his dad,
and we were all there together, you know?
And somehow we all kind of felt like we all got screwed.
You know, we all...
We... We shouldn't even be here.
Jonathan was a good boy.
Jonathan never did anything in his whole life.
He really is a good kid,
and I just feel so badly
that he has to be the sacrificial lamb, you know,
for a dumb talk show.
You know, Jonathan was a victim in this thing.
I'm not saying that he was right, but I'm saying that he lost too.
[CLICKS LIPS]
Well, he was, in a way.
You know, he shouldn't have been put in that position to begin with.
So he was a victim too.
Yeah, he was a victim too.
So, you know, I don't argue that.
[JONES] I want to set the record straight.
First, as much as we all regret what happened,
the fact is that this tragedy is about the actions of one individual.
[AMEDURE JR.] I gotta say that I blame the producers...
probably just about as much
because it was their job to go out and find people
that they could, uh, exploit.
Um, that's what they do for a living.
Exploit people.
While the murder trial comes to a close,
the civil suit in this matter hasn't even gotten underway.
[NEWSMAN] Amedure's family is suing the show.
I do believe that this would not have happened
if it were not for The Jenny Jones Show.
The Jenny Jones Show that was responsible
for literally almost everything that happened here
because the show was the catalyst.
What was astonishing to me is that the coverage continued.
There was still a huge amount of interest in it.
Beth, how significant is the media presence at the trial?
Well, it is growing.
[NEWSWOMAN] The Jenny Jones Show is charged with negligence,
gross negligence, and willful...
[NEWSMAN] ...suing the show, Telepictures, and Warner Brothers for $50 million.
It was just a story that didn't seem like it was ever gonna end.
[NEWSMAN] Is the talk show industry watching this case
with any concern or interest?
[WOMAN] I think they're very concerned. If you can be found liable,
it's gonna change everything.
Jenny, you are responsible for what happened,
and you should take responsibility for that.
And I fully believe that Geoffrey Fieger is going to make you understand
your culpability in all of this.
[ANNOUNCER] Only one has stood up and taken on big business
and the government,
and only one is one of the most famous trial lawyers in America.
There is only one Geoffrey Fieger.
We needed a different kind of lawyer, and then that's when I called Fieger.
And he, of course, answered the phone,
and he said, "I was wondering when you were gonna call me."
Did you meet Mr. Fieger?
[FIEGER] They were very smart in calling me.
I knew what to do.
Every case that I have is about a story.
I take every case, and I paint a picture.
Now, the law is quite formulated, and you have to follow specific rules.
But that's not so unlike technique of painters
or other artists.
They work with the medium.
And so the medium of the law, I learned.
And my art is the art of telling stories.
[BURDICK] Fieger is...
and I say this in the kindest way, a press animal.
Geoffrey Fieger is a showboat.
Jenny Jones Show better be ready for this.
He made his name representing Jack Kevorkian for many years.
[NEWSMAN] Dr. Kevorkian was charged with first-degree murder
and with assisting in a suicide.
He was a drama major in college.
In the courtroom, who's gonna stand up for you?
[BRASIER] He likes his stardom here in metro Detroit.
You see billboards and ads on television.
[ANNOUNCER] Now it's Fieger Time.
[ROCK MUSIC PLAYS]
If you trick and lie and deceive and commit fraud,
like The Jenny Jones Show producers did with Jonathan Schmitz...
He takes on really high-profile cases,
sometimes those that I think he knows he's going to lose
but that keeps his name in the paper.
I don't think I need any more notoriety here.
I was the Democratic nominee for governor.
He's a good man,
and, uh, I think he cares.
Okay. But he comes off very gruff.
They gotta stop.
Who's talking outside?
You've got to get them away.
And arrogant.
Are they discussing settlement?
No, they're not, and it surprises me.
Hm. Opinionated.
Some people might not like uppity white lawyers. Tough luck.
And you gotta kinda go with it.
The Jenny Jones Show trial where I put 'em on trial
is about to happen.
He, you know, was a publicity hound.
And I say that in a, you know, in a respectful way.
If any of you...
should...
be able at any...
particular time...
on any particular day to...
observe the... the entrance
into the Ottawa Cemetery...
Ultimately, if you're going to be successful in front of a jury,
you've got to make the story compelling to a human being.
You might observe...
an elderly man...
First of all, Fieger's opening was two and a half hours long.
You might see them...
on a bright day or on a cloudy day.
You might see them on a windy day or a snow-filled day.
You might see them on a weekend...
There was a lot of repetition. There was a lot of redundancy.
And written on that plaque...
is the name...
Scott Amedure.
I have never listened
to a two and a half hour opening statement,
either before or since.
I'm not gonna try to talk to you for two and a half hours.
Uh, I don't know if I could stand here for two and a half hours.
Um... But I am gonna do this.
I am going to talk to you about what this case is all about,
and I'm gonna talk to you about justice.
Justice in this case
would involve Jonathan Schmitz sitting in this courtroom.
That would be justice.
[JUDGE] Excuse me.
See, it took 60 seconds.
[JUDGE] Thank you.
This trial was just an absolute circus. Bedlam.
[FIEGER] You make up just about everything you say. Isn't that true?
[JUDGE] Excuse me. He's badgering. Don't do that.
Fieger is a very combative, argumentative cross-examiner.
[FIEGER] I'll make it real simple for you.
I know it's difficult for you to answer some questions.
You're an expert in embarrassment or humiliation
for the entertainment of other people,
- aren't you? - No.
I always tell my story in cross-examination.
[FIEGER] Your purpose in doing this show was to sensationalize, embarrass,
humiliate with regard to sex. Isn't that true?
That's completely untrue.
[FIEGER] And that's all you focused on...
It's more important my questions than the answers.
You could object to almost every question Fieger asked if you wanted to.
[FEENEY] Objection, Your Honor.
- Where is he coming up with this? - [JUDGE] Excuse me.
[FEENEY] And that's tough.
If my question ends up sounding like a statement,
believe me, it has a little question mark after it.
I respected him.
Uh, he's a...
You know, he's a difficult advocate to deal with.
[FIEGER] Why would you tell him it was a man or a woman?
Because he knew it was a secret crush show,
and I wanted him to know that it could have been a man or a woman.
[FIEGER] Excuse me. It couldn't have been a woman
since you knew it was a man.
I remember Fieger hammering on the producers.
[FIEGER] You told them not to tell Jonathan Schmitz
that it was them, didn't you?
We told all the guests on that show not to say who it was.
[FIEGER] So you told them to lie to Jonathan Schmitz, didn't you?
- [JONES] Scott has the crush on you. - You lied to me. [LAUGHS]
They called about a secret crush show. It's a secret.
[FIEGER] If you wanna understand what really happened,
everything was done for the purpose of ratings.
And ratings are money.
And that's really what happened in the show.
Somebody lost their life for money.
Ridiculous. Shouldn't they have to pay for that?
[FIEGER] Have you developed an understanding of how people react
to being deceived, embarrassed, or humiliated on your show?
No, because we don't deceive, embarrass, or humiliate people on our show.
That may be a tough sell in front of these jurors.
[REPORTER] Gonna be a long day, tough day, gentlemen, or what?
- It's gonna be a long day. - [REPORTER] A long day?
[FEENEY LAUGHS]
[FEENEY] I knew that it could easily be argued
that there was a superficial connection
that could have appeal to jurors.
The bottom line here is this:
The show acted in a perfectly reasonable manner.
I also knew that there was no way
the producers of this television show
owed any kind of a legally cognizable duty to Scott Amedure
to protect him against criminal activity by a third party,
be it Jonathan Schmitz or anyone else.
You're flying 'em in.
If you're paying the money and you're going to make the profits
from your trash TV and your ambush TV, you damn well...
[FEENEY] Legally, to me, there was no question
that the case ultimately would be decided in favor of the show,
but that may not happen until after a trial we lost.
And my responsibility was to establish a clear difference
between what happened with the show
and what ultimately Jonathan Schmitz did four days later.
[FEENEY] Did you have any reason to suspect when they left the studio
that Jon Schmitz posed any risk of violence or physical injury to anyone?
No. He said he had a great time on the show.
[FEENEY] After the show, there are several kind of critical points.
When they leave the show,
they decide to all fly home together.
[FIEGER] As you were leaving the airport,
someone picked up a broken yellow light.
Tell us about that.
Um, it was just laying out in the middle of the parking lot,
and, um, they were joking back and forth.
And Jon had his old car, and one of the blinkers didn't work,
so Scott had picked it up and was teasing with him
and said that that could be his new blinker for the car.
[FEENEY] And then they spent several hours drinking together.
He called me in Brewski's bar, and he said, uh,
"That thing didn't work out very well in Chicago for me, Dad."
He said, uh...
He said, uh, "It was a guy."
Then they go back to Donna Riley's apartment,
where the party continues.
He told me that they, he and Jon, had slow danced and kissed.
[JUDGE] Excuse me.
[FIEGER] How does he come here now for the first time
without disclosing it?
He wanted to find some reason,
other than the show and what had happened there,
that Jonathan Schmitz would've killed Scott.
It was absolutely the result of his reaction
to this ongoing relationship.
They went out after the show,
but by the time they, uh...
the night was over,
that they had an affair.
In fact, nothing had happened. Nothing.
It is explosive
because it could absolve the defendant, uh, from any liability.
He told me that they had slept together. He wanted me to meet him.
- [FIEGER] Did it happen? - No, it didn't happen.
Jon told me before that his family have confronted him, asked him if he was gay.
Do you have any reason to think he is, Donna? I mean...
Um, not really.
He, um... He said that his family kind of questioned him on it.
[FEENEY] Did you ever discuss
that he was very conflicted in his relationship with females?
Absolutely.
Because he had lots of conflicts with lots of females.
I am, uh, definitely, uh, heterosexual, I guess you could say. [CHUCKLES]
But it had to do, again, with girls. I want you to know that. Girls.
- [FEENEY] Yes, sir, I know. - Okay.
- Remember, it's girls. No guys. - [FEENEY] Not any guys.
- That's right. - [FEENEY] Absolutely not, sir.
- No guys. - That's right. Right.
The whole bottom line was whether he was gay or not...
it was that he didn't want nobody to find out about it on TV.
It entails, like, whipped cream and champagne, stuff like that.
- [WOMAN] Oh, my God! - [AUDIENCE GASPING AND LAUGHING]
[FEENEY] When he finally did call you after the show had been taped,
you made it pretty clear to him in that phone conversation
you were angry.
And, in fact, you said gay what?
- Bastards. - [FEENEY] Sure that's all you said?
I... It was something. It was an expletive of that, whatever.
[FEENEY] In fact, what you said
began with an "F" and ended with an "S," didn't it?
- Yes. - And you threw a chair, didn't you?
Yes.
[AMEDURE JR.] There's no excuses.
There's reasons
for why Jon did what he did.
[FIEGER] Did you consider that the note was offensive
- or in any way a cause of the murder? - It was meant to be a joke.
It was meant to be a joke.
It was meant for a laugh, to make Jon laugh.
Whether it was that he felt like his family was gonna find out
that he was gay or that his family was gonna think that he was gay...
[FEENEY] Explain, please, why you said that Jon had to kill Scott
to prove he was not a homosexual,
and that Jon felt like he was being stalked.
What does it say on the line before that, or the question? May I see the statement?
[FEENEY] You said that the overwhelming humiliation
that he would have felt,
that everybody thought he was a homosexual.
Right. How would you feel if somebody thought you were a homosexual?
And that's exactly what you communicated to your son Jon. Right, sir?
I was embarrassed. He was embarrassed.
[WHELAN] When you watch the testimony by Jonathan's father,
you get a glimpse into...
the household of the Schmitz when Jonathan was growing up.
- Thanks very much. - Thank you for coming, Mr. Schmitz.
[WHELAN] And I think that homophobia
is a part of a lot of young people's childhoods
still in this country.
It just shows the extent of how far we have to go. [CHUCKLES]
He shouldn't have been humiliated to begin with.
Well, in a perfect world, yeah.
But it's not a perfect world.
There's a lot of people that are gonna be humiliated
if they're thought of as being homosexual.
It's not that I agree with it or like it or, you know...
Um, it's just a fact of life.
To put a line around it and say, "Homophobia, this is it."
I'm not sure it's "it" any more than any one thing is it.
It's a sad story with a lot of complicated pieces.
But it wouldn't have happened
if it wasn't for The Jenny Jones Show.
We're talking about experimenting on people for ratings.
Seeing what they'll do
if we put 'em in a certain kind of a situation.
And that's what they did. They lit the fuse.
Now, which of these ways would you choose to reveal your secret crush on someone?
A, would you write that person a letter?
B, would you tell the person in private in case he rejects you?
Or C, would you tell that person that you're gay and you hope he is
on national television in front of millions?
[AUDIENCE CHEERS]
On television, you have to turn reality into a story.
Jenny Jones is set to take the stand herself in Pontiac, Michigan...
[LICHTER] Not just trash talk shows, but journalists
recognize that you have to please people who are expecting a story.
[MAN 1] From a strategic point of view,
Fieger needs to get a piece of Jenny Jones.
[MAN 2] She's the star of the show.
I've been looking forward to seeing her on the stand.
[LICHTER] And when you turn a courtroom into a studio...
[NEWSWOMAN] Enter the family's media-savvy attorney...
[LICHTER] ...it ends up looking like a story
with good guys, bad guys,
drama.
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]
[FIEGER] Whenever I want her, she'll be there.
If they ever ask it. [CHUCKLES]
[FIEGER] The media wants to use anything they have.
They want to use the sensationalism of the trial.
- [REPORTER] Ready to tell your side? - [JONES] Yes, I sure am.
[FIEGER] They wanna use Geoffrey Fieger.
Geoffrey, thanks for joining us. What happened...
[FIEGER] They wanna create another media experience.
Well, I get that.
She didn't look that good when she came in.
Didn't look like she'd had much sleep.
That's the way the media works.
It really is TV talk shows on trial here.
We resume our coverage of The Jenny Jones...
The story becomes the story.
It should be a great trial.
[FEENEY] They took real-life drama and put it in front of a TV camera.
What can we expect in your examination of her?
[FIEGER] I liken it to Colonel Kurtz's final words in Apocalypse Now.
"The horror.
The horror."
[FEENEY] At one point, I think I was told it had,
I don't know, 475,000 people or something daily watching this thing.
I tell you what. The trials I've had,
if there are two or three people sitting in the audience, uh, it's a lot.
So you have a situation that was really ironic
because, I mean, Court TV is doing this
for exactly the same reason that another set of producers
is being accused of doing it for their own gain.
This is Crime Stories. It was a murder that put TV on trial.
Now, that's a little different than The Jenny Jones Show,
where they were actually trying to trick people and hurt people, okay.
Where Court TV, I don't know that they're trying to hurt people.
They're just trying to make a bunch of money off of this tragic event.
It's just who was covering the story that really bothered me.
If it was a completely other company that was filming the court,
that's one thing, but...
it's the darn company we're suing.
Since Warner Brothers owns Court TV,
and Court TV's ratings have dramatically shot up during this trial,
they've made a fortune on that end.
They're making money off my brother,
and we're suing you,
and yet you're over here still making money off of him.
Jenny Jones expected to take the witness stand sometime this afternoon.
You're not gonna want to miss it. Stick around.
There's no human aspect to the decisions of making money.
[FIEGER] Okay, I call Jenny Jones to the stand.
[AMEDURE JR.] It's just like why they try to get somebody
to break down and cry on a talk show.
You know, even though that's gonna make that person feel bad and awful or whatnot,
they're gonna do it anyway because that's what sells.
There's a side of us that are drawn to that kind of thing.
That sadistic thing in all of us.
We're gonna squeeze in a quick commercial break. We'll be right back.
[BIRDS CHIRPING]
[FIEGER] It would be embarrassing to you
to have somebody discuss with you here,
without discussing it with you in advance,
somebody's fantasy about tying you up to a hammock
and licking whipped cream off of you with strawberries and champagne...
That would be embarrassing, wouldn't it?
It could be exciting.
[FIEGER] Excuse me, and it would also be embarrassing.
[LAUGHTER]
It wouldn't.
She came on
and she had obviously been prepared by Feeney or whoever.
If a stranger or somebody just out of the blue
starts telling you sexual fantasies,
you wouldn't encourage somebody to do that, would you?
They weren't strangers, first of all. And...
I know Mr. Johnson.
We're not strangers,
but are you suggesting that, because Mr. Johnson and I know each other,
or Judge Schnelz and I, or Mr. Feeney and I know each other...
[SCHNELZ] Leave Judge Schnelz out of this. All right?
- [LAUGHTER] - And...
And keep Mr. Feeney out of your sexual fantasies too.
[LAUGHTER]
[NEWSMAN] Fieger was tenacious. Jones didn't buckle.
[NEWSWOMAN] She was a challenge for Fieger.
[FIEGER] I remember getting a feeling of who she was,
and if I went certain ways, how she would go.
[MAN] I think she's giving as good as she gets so far.
She's impressing me, actually.
And then, I... I just create.
I just create my picture.
- Good morning, Miss Jones. - Good morning.
- How are you? - Fine, thanks.
Good.
Do you know that you're smiling?
I believe I'm smiling, yes. So are you.
You're not nervous, though, are you?
I'm not comfortable.
Right. And you smile when you're not comfortable, don't you?
- Sometimes. - That's what Jonathan Schmitz did,
isn't it?
[NEWSMAN] That was sort of a gotcha on Fieger's part, right?
[NEWSWOMAN] It was a big touché on Fieger's part...
[FIEGER] You use those people as a form of entertainment.
Isn't that true?
- That's not quite the way I see it. - [FIEGER] Oh, I see.
Once you get her out of the box, she... she was...
she was a helpless child.
You're the one who told Scott
to express the fantasy on the air, aren't you?
If I don't talk to the guests...
Please answer my question. Now, we're not gonna get along...
And she was helpless with Geoffrey Fieger, which is not a good way to be.
And so, I could have my way with her.
I ask every question on the air. It's what I do.
[FIEGER] No, you answer my question.
You're the person who asked Scott
to express the fantasy on the air, aren't you?
- Of course I am. - [FIEGER] Okay, show me the document
in which Jonathan Schmitz gave you permission
to bring him on a national television show
and have another man describe a lurid sexual fantasy about him.
We don't... We didn't ask for permission for that.
[FIEGER] I know.
[NEWSWOMAN] No more laughter. The jury was very stone-faced
as Geoffrey Fieger started hitting her with some tough questions.
[NEWSMAN] Fieger put the heat on Jones immediately.
[FIEGER] You wanted a reaction.
Didn't you?
Well, we want a reaction through the entire show.
[FIEGER] Yes or no?
You wanted a reaction from Jonathan Schmitz
so that the audience could be entertained by his emotions,
whatever they were.
- Didn't you? Yes or no. - No, not necessarily.
[FIEGER] You didn't know what his emotions would be.
You didn't know if he'd be happy, right?
- Right? - Right.
Fieger was winning in terms of making Jenny Jones look bad.
[FIEGER] You didn't know if he'd be hurt inside,
- did you? - No.
They didn't prepare her for Fieger.
There's no way to prepare for Geoffrey Fieger.
[FIEGER] So you used him as a source of entertainment,
having no idea what his emotions would be,
for other people, didn't you?
No, that's not the way I see it. I don't use people on the show.
They should never have gone forward to trial.
Maybe Feeney talked them into it. I don't know.
But, uh, they should never have gone to trial on that case.
It gave me an opportunity.
If I was them, I would have said, "No, I'm shutting this down.
Can't let Fieger do this to us."
This is a case, ladies and gentlemen, about exploitation
and about, ultimately, responsibility.
Because this is a tragedy,
Mr. Fieger, on behalf of the Amedure family,
is appealing to the nicest part of you.
Warner Brothers complains
that there was nothing they could have done.
The statements of lawyers are not evidence.
How many lives
do they have to ruin?
The questions of lawyers are not evidence.
Who's next, Mr. Feeney? Where does it stop?
Was it a natural and probable result?
Here you have to look at the evidence, ladies and gentlemen.
If you embarrass him and you humiliate him,
you can produce violence.
Is that something that normally pops into our head?
"Gee, I'm embarrassed.
I think I'll go kill somebody"?
This is negligence, ladies and gentlemen.
This is the definition of negligence.
The reason that you can find the show liable
is because they did something wrong,
and they did cause the death.
Negligence is the failure to use ordinary care.
You have an opportunity to render real justice.
It is reasonable for you to come back with a conclusion
that the show was not negligent.
You see, because it's very difficult in any other place except in America
that that little man and that woman
can stand up in a courtroom equal to Warner Brothers
and say, "We got justice."
You do justice.
Thank you all.
[JUDGE] Was the defendant negligent
in one or more of the ways claimed by the plaintiff?
- How do you answer? - [FOREMAN] Yes.
[JUDGE] Question number two.
Was the defendant's negligence a proximate cause of injuries
or damage to the plaintiff?
How do you answer? Yes or no?
[FOREMAN] Yes.
[NEWSMAN] The judgment was nearly unanimous.
Eight out of nine jurors ruled in favor of damages...
[NEWSWOMAN] ...and awarded the Amedure family $25 million.
They are proud to be the David to a media Goliath.
Scott's here today shining over us.
He was here through the whole trial.
I guess I'm pretty proud that we were able to...
Uh...
[AMEDURE JR.] We did what we came for.
To teach them guys you can't do that.
Maybe we'll do something about these shows now that are happening,
and there won't be no more killings, like...
- [EXHALES] - [REPORTER] Mr. Amedure?
Excuse me. Excuse me.
Like I lost my son.
Warner Brothers was supportive.
I mean, they knew that this was a possible outcome.
This has a profoundly chilling effect not only on talk shows,
but on all the media.
And they were totally committed to, uh, getting justice,
just like the Amedure family.
That is unprecedented
and will be absolutely overturned by the Michigan Court of Appeals.
Not only is it not unprecedented,
it's... it's contained within the restatement of torts.
[NEWSMAN] Gentlemen, let me jump in.
As we've seen, I think the case is over,
but the debate continues with Geoffrey Fieger, Jim Feeney.
Gentlemen, thanks for joining us this morning. I appreciate the time.
Juries love to stick it to big corporations behaving badly,
and there are a lot of things that, uh...
that are ethically, morally very bad,
uh, but are still legal
because it would be even worse if you tried to make them illegal.
[FEENEY] The case should have been dismissed before there was a trial.
There was no legal obligation on the part of the show's producers
to influence the outcome
of what Jonathan Schmitz did to Scott Amedure on March 9th.
Journalists every day set up sources
knowing that they're going to betray them, in a certain way,
for the public interest,
to get important material out to the public.
And...
[SIGHS]
Trash TV may make you cringe, but it would make you cringe a lot more
if you lost the First Amendment in getting rid of trash TV.
Remember, the Supreme Court of the United States
gave the Dred Scott decision,
which upheld slavery, so that doesn't make it right.
So we're gonna compare the Jenny Jones verdict to the Dred Scott case.
- I'm not diverting. - Come on, Geoffrey.
That was pretty satisfying, uh...
and pretty satisfying to have, uh, a 30...
what was then, I think, about $33 million with interest...
uh, maybe 35.
It could have been 35, taken away.
Not one person can name any of those jurists who took it away,
and the minute they died,
nobody remembered that they ever lived on the face of the earth.
And people still remember Scott Amedure.
And I think that I would rather have that than all the money in the world.
[GIBSON] See, there's no winning in this. Everybody's lost.
The Amedures, they've lost a son,
and the Schmitzes, for all intents and purposes,
have lost a son for a number of years, although he'll be back, yes.
But this was like an octopus, this whole case.
The tentacles reached out, and everybody it touched, it harmed.
And nobody's going to win. Nobody's ever going to win.
[LICHTER] When a trial becomes a story,
you are buying into the notion that there's closure.
And the problem is that in real life, there's never closure.
The answers are not clear.
And when the answers aren't clear,
you keep asking the question over and over.
I know that in the months and years after this tragedy,
Jenny Jones was never the least bit apologetic.
The one thing that I sort of come away with after all this
is I really am just very cynical about the press.
[REPORTER] Any regrets, Jon?
You know, this was a rush to judgment.
It was unfair reporting for the sake of a sensational story.
[BRASIER] This was a story that had legs.
We were getting great readership.
But I always had this kind of uneasy feel about what we were doing
because in our coverage,
we were exploiting people who'd been exploiting people.
And, you know, did we harm the people involved?
Maybe.
I-I'm still uneasy about... about the coverage.
[AMEDURE JR.] I came to a point
where I wouldn't do any more interviews anymore,
and I didn't care to deal with anybody in the media.
That would probably be one of the things
if I ever was gonna question again might be,
could we have done all that stuff differently?
Did we have to fall into the trap of the media?
The trial by media.
Did we really need to go on all them television shows?
Could we have just all remained silent and went through this whole trial?
And would that have maybe been better? I don't know.
It did set a... a tone in my life
that was like being in a dream or in a movie.
Some of it put me in awe,
and some of it got me angry, and some of it got me sad,
and some of it made me proud,
and the movie just kept going and going.
I actually had to pay some company to come and get his trailer.
It was all messed up from the...
gun thing, so nobody would ever want it.
So it went to a junkyard.
I just wish that he'd be understood for who he is
and not some gay person that confessed his crush to somebody on TV
as if he was a criminal or something.
He didn't want to hurt nobody.
I think if he would have known that Schmitz felt the way he did,
that he wouldn't have done it.
I think that he just wanted to be on TV.
[MAN] What do you think he would be doing today?
He might be working with you guys.
He would have loved that kind... This kind of stuff. This is his thing.
Yeah, he'd have loved this stuff.
My guests today are romantically involved with their own cousins.
[AUDIENCE GASPING]
[REPORTER] Hey, how does it feel to be free?
- [BLEEP] off. Get away from us. - [REPORTER] How's it feel to be free?
[BLEEP] you.
[REPORTER] Do you have anything to say to Scott's family?
- Huh? - You need a real job, mister.
[ANNOUNCER] Is your teen dressing or acting too sexy?
We're gonna tell you what's fake and real on these women.
We're gonna start with Rachel.
[AUDIENCE CHEERING]