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and may contain
mature subject matter.

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Viewer discretion
is advised.

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a former CIA operative,
matuBen Smith, mas,"r.

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investigates
what really crashed

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near Roswell, New Mexico,
in 1947.

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- I'm not sure I buy
that whole balloon theory.

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- Really?
- Yeah.

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Fishburne: The focus:
a mysterious journal

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found among the possessions
of Jesse Marcel,

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the first official
to arrive at the scene.

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- It was not anything
from this Earth.

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That, I'm quite sure of.

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Fishburne: A top cryptologist
believes

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it may contain coded
messages...

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- To a cryptographer,

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this indicates
a certain kind of cipher.

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Fishburne: Perhaps details
on what Marcel really saw.

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- He saw the spaceship.

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- I'm laurence Fishburne
and tonight,

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the hunt for the mysterious
journal's author continues.

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Was it a fellow officer in Jesse
Marcels tight knit group

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who knew exactly what he knew?

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Ben Smith is hot on the trail.

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Was one of these men the
author of the journal?

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Was it written
by a U.S. Army officer

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with inside information
on Roswell?

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- There are some words
and letter combinations

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I do see in agreement.

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- This man is at the nexus
of all the secrets.

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Fishburne:
And what did Jesse Marcel

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tell his own family

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years before
he ever went public?

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- He told us that they had
told him to change the story.

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Fishburne: Did an
extraterrestrial spacecraft

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crash near Roswell?

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The conclusion to
our investigation begins now.

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[dramatic music]

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♪ ♪

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♪ ♪

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Former CIA investigator
Ben Smith has traveled

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to Louisiana's Gulf Coast
to visit Houma,

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the hometown of Jesse Marcel

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where he spent the last
36 years of his life.

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♪ ♪

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At ease among his own people

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in this quiet
bayou community,

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Smith believes Marcel
may have divulged details

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about the UFO crash
to family and friends.

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♪ ♪

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- There are
Mr. and Mrs. Marcel.

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- They must have liked you.

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They have smiles
on their faces.

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- I was in their book.

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She says, "You could sell
refrigerators to Eskimos,"

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because I was so persuasive in
making him talk about things.

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And she could see that
I was getting things.

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And that's him and I together.

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I have my Nicholls State
University T-shirt on, and--

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Oh, my gosh.
Such a long time ago.

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♪ ♪

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Fishburne: Linda Corley
met Marcel in 1981

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when she taped an interview
with him

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for her undergraduate
psychology course

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at Nicholls State University.

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Marcel was retired and living
with his wife, Vio.

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♪ ♪

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In 2007, she turned
her interview with Jesse

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into a book entitled
"For The Sake Of My Country."

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♪ ♪

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- I had a little
cassette-tape recorder,

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and I asked him
if it was all right.

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He said, "Sure."

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Okay. [clears throat]

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Please don't break.
Please don't break.

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- I kept asking all through
the interview,

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"Can't you tell me something
that's not in the book?"

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- [laughs]

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♪ ♪

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Fishburne: Linda is referring
to the first book

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to allege a government
cover-up at Roswell,

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called
"The Roswell Incident."

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It was written
by Charles Berlitz

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and William Moore in 1980.

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It relied heavily on the
testimony of Jesse Marcel.

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- I asked him
that a million times.

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"Can't you tell me something
that's not in the book?"

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- Yeah.
- And in the end, he did.

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♪ ♪

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Fishburne:
What Marcel told Linda

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was that his son, Jesse Jr.

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had described the debris
he'd handled inaccurately.

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Jesse Jr.,
who was 11 at the time,

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claimed he'd picked up
small support struts,

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which he called I-beams.

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- The most unusual part
of the debris that I saw

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was the I-beam fragments,

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or what I recall
as being I-beam,

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because they were very light
and very strong,

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and they had some writing

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along the inside surface
of this,

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and that was the thing
that really set this apart

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from anything
I'd ever seen before.

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♪ ♪

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- He was talking about
the symbols

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that he saw on the debris,

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and Mrs. Marcel said,

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"I think I have
Jesse Jr.'s drawing of that,"

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and he said, "Well, Jesse got
all that wrong anyway."

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- Huh.
- I had a composition book,

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and I'm like, "Well, here.
Why don't you

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draw me something?"

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The clip I want you to hear

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is of what he says
as he's drawing.

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[tape hissing]

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- He didn't seem to have doubt

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as to his memory of that.
- Right.

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- That's what he draw.
That's the original.

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- Huh.
- I said,

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"Now, will you sign it?"
And he said, "Yeah."

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I can't believe I had the
wherewithal to even say that,

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and then he signed it,
and he drew the beam,

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which you can see
is not an I-beam.

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- Yeah. It's not an I-beam.
- Yeah.

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He told me
that they were pink and purple,

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and so I wrote that,
that's my handwriting.

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- Yeah.

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- So these are some of my
beginning sketches

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from what he told me.

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- Yeah. That's something
I could never figure out.

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Are we talking about wood,
or are we talking about metal?

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- He called it wood.

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He was specific about that,
but he said it wouldn't burn.

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- How did he know
it didn't burn?

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- He tried to burn it
with a cigarette lighter.

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He said, "It felt like wood.
It looked like wood,

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"but it wouldn't burn,
so it can't be wood.

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"It has to be something
I've never seen before

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on this Earth,"
that kind of thing.

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- Uh-huh. Yeah. Hmm.

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♪ ♪

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- I asked him, "Why didn't you
save some of it?"

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- Mm-hmm.
- "Why didn't you do that?"

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I would've saved a piece of it.
- Right.

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- His choice of words
always stuck in my mind.

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"I sat on this premium
for 32 years.

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I don't want any publicity.
All I want is peace."

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He said that more than once.

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"I just want peace."
Why don't you have peace?

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He could've sat on it
for another 32 years?

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Why did he talk?
Had to have been bothering him.

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Had to have been something
he wanted to get off his chest.

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- Yeah. That's true.

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- I have three tapes
that last about four hours,

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and during that time,

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we had bonded
so close together.

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- Hmm. Yeah.

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- He says,
"You're welcome here anytime."

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Fishburne: Linda says that
when she went home,

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she couldn't stop looking at
the symbols Jesse had drawn.

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- I had studied writing
and codes and scripts

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for other things,
and I came home that night,

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and I looked up some
different ancient writings,

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and it was exactly
what he drew--

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- Mm-hmm.
- Exactly what he drew.

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Fishburne: Linda says that
what Jesse drew resembled

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a kind of shorthand
called Tironian notes

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that were first used
in Ancient Rome around 4 BC.

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She says
the symbols Jesse drew

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signify travel and flight.

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♪ ♪

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- I went back the next day.

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I was invited in cordially,
again.

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- Mm-hmm.
- And I showed him

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some of the writing.

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♪ ♪

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I mean, look. This one here,
these slashes here--

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- Mm-hmm.
- This is almost exactly

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what he drew, and there's--
- And what is Tironian?

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- There's a decipher for that.

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I went into detail about

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where this writing
could've come from.

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- Yeah.
I think I saw that, yeah.

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- And they got pretty intense
about the writing.

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I left on good terms.
"Come back anytime you want."

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- Yeah.
- And then the calls.

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He said, "Do not use
what I gave you.

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Everything is a lie."

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And the next call was, "Don't
go to the media with it."

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He was so irate on the phone.
- Okay. Yeah.

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- I can still see myself.

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"I didn't do any--
I'm not gonna do that.

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This is for school," you know?

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- Uh-huh.

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- "I'm not going
to the media with this!"

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So I never heard
from him again.

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I was crushed.

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- What do you think
caused that change?

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- Well,
I think the second visit,

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what happened
and transpired there

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is why he called
and said don't use it.

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- Uh-huh.

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00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:56,600
- And the only thing that
transpired in that second visit

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were photos
of the ancient writings.

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- The ancient writings,
yeah. Huh.

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00:10:01,467 --> 00:10:02,800
♪ ♪

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00:10:02,934 --> 00:10:06,066
- What if he was told
that writing means something

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00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,600
to the government or whatever,
and you shouldn't tell.

208
00:10:09,734 --> 00:10:11,133
- Uh-huh.
- You know, you shouldn't

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00:10:11,266 --> 00:10:12,600
have drawn it.
- Right.

210
00:10:12,734 --> 00:10:13,934
- You shouldn't have
written it, you know?

211
00:10:14,066 --> 00:10:18,667
What if it was something
that was alien,

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00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,200
and he's too afraid
to let it out?

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00:10:21,333 --> 00:10:24,033
So, you know, those are
what-ifs because I don't know

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00:10:24,166 --> 00:10:26,133
what else to think
about those phone calls.

215
00:10:26,266 --> 00:10:28,433
What else can I think?

216
00:10:28,567 --> 00:10:32,300
- Did he ever mention that
he was close to anyone on base,

217
00:10:32,433 --> 00:10:35,734
anyone who was
especially important to him?

218
00:10:35,867 --> 00:10:37,800
- He talked about Cavitt
quite a bit.

219
00:10:37,934 --> 00:10:41,066
He thought extremely
highly of Colonel Blanchard.

220
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,000
Colonel Blanchard had refused
to transfer him

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00:10:45,133 --> 00:10:46,967
three months later

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00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:51,066
and said he was more important
and needed there,

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but somebody else
wanted him out.

224
00:10:53,467 --> 00:10:55,166
- Huh.
- And he didn't care

225
00:10:55,300 --> 00:10:56,567
for General Ramey.

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00:10:56,700 --> 00:11:01,100
He said General Ramey knew it
wasn't a weather balloon.

227
00:11:01,233 --> 00:11:04,333
- So do you believe
Jesse's story?

228
00:11:04,467 --> 00:11:07,734
- Yeah.
I believe Jesse believes.

229
00:11:07,867 --> 00:11:10,200
I was always a believer
that Jesse believed.

230
00:11:10,333 --> 00:11:12,934
- Mm-hmm.
- Nothing stood out as phony.

231
00:11:13,066 --> 00:11:14,533
Nothing stood out as fake.

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00:11:14,667 --> 00:11:16,700
♪ ♪

233
00:11:16,834 --> 00:11:18,266
- Did you ever feel like
he had a secret

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00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:19,567
that he
wasn't sharing with you?

235
00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:22,233
- Well, he says that "I'm not
telling you everything."

236
00:11:22,367 --> 00:11:23,533
- Yeah.
- "There's still things

237
00:11:23,667 --> 00:11:25,767
I can't tell you,"
and I'm like, "Why?"

238
00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:27,433
And he says,
"For the sake of my country."

239
00:11:27,567 --> 00:11:29,133
- For the sake of his country.
- And that's why I named

240
00:11:29,266 --> 00:11:30,533
the book
"For The Sake Of My Country."

241
00:11:30,667 --> 00:11:32,166
Yeah.
- Yeah.

242
00:11:45,333 --> 00:11:47,433
♪ ♪

243
00:11:47,567 --> 00:11:48,734
Fishburne: Coming up...

244
00:11:48,867 --> 00:11:49,800
- What the [bleep]
is that thing?

245
00:11:49,934 --> 00:11:51,367
- Whoa, what is that, man?

246
00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:52,834
Fishburne: what the Pentagon
didn't want America

247
00:11:52,967 --> 00:11:55,667
to know about UFOs
but she revealed.

248
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,033
- The Pentagon had a secret
program that started in 2007.

249
00:11:59,166 --> 00:12:01,934
Fishburne: And Ben Smith gets
some news he never expected.

250
00:12:02,066 --> 00:12:05,967
- I don't see enough right now
to exclude this person

251
00:12:06,100 --> 00:12:06,967
as a candidate.

252
00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:08,266
There's potential.

253
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,800
♪ ♪

254
00:12:16,767 --> 00:12:19,633
[dramatic music]

255
00:12:19,767 --> 00:12:22,367
♪ ♪

256
00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:24,233
Fishburne: Ben Smith has
just heard a taped interview

257
00:12:24,367 --> 00:12:25,467
with Jesse Marcel...

258
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,367
Fishburne: In which Marcel
says it was his duty

259
00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:33,600
to stay quiet about Roswell.

260
00:12:33,734 --> 00:12:35,967
♪ ♪

261
00:12:41,734 --> 00:12:44,400
♪ ♪

262
00:12:44,533 --> 00:12:46,467
Fishburne: Now Smith has come
to New York City

263
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,333
to better understand why
Marcel felt extreme pressure

264
00:12:49,467 --> 00:12:52,867
to keep his secret long
after he left the military.

265
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,333
♪ ♪

266
00:12:55,467 --> 00:12:56,934
- Hi, Ben.
- Hi, Leslie.

267
00:12:57,066 --> 00:12:59,000
- Come in.
- Thank you.

268
00:12:59,133 --> 00:13:00,400
Fishburne: Leslie Kean,

269
00:13:00,533 --> 00:13:02,166
author of
the bestselling book

270
00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:05,800
"UFOs: Generals, Pilots
and Government Officials

271
00:13:05,934 --> 00:13:07,266
Go on the Record,"

272
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,533
says it's risky for
members of the military

273
00:13:09,667 --> 00:13:12,433
to speak openly about UFOs.

274
00:13:12,567 --> 00:13:15,667
- For people in the military,
there is this taboo,

275
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,600
this stigma
around the topic of UFOs.

276
00:13:18,734 --> 00:13:20,633
They're afraid to talk about
it, that it might somehow

277
00:13:20,767 --> 00:13:23,433
affect their positions
and their careers.

278
00:13:23,567 --> 00:13:25,600
There's the respect
they have of their colleagues.

279
00:13:25,734 --> 00:13:27,133
They might--
somebody might think

280
00:13:27,266 --> 00:13:28,834
there's something wrong
with them.

281
00:13:28,967 --> 00:13:31,834
Those attitudes are still
there, unfortunately.

282
00:13:31,967 --> 00:13:33,600
♪ ♪

283
00:13:33,734 --> 00:13:34,934
- It sounds like
you're convinced

284
00:13:35,066 --> 00:13:37,133
there's a taboo about UFOs.

285
00:13:37,266 --> 00:13:40,633
- That stigma is a big factor
for sort of the individual

286
00:13:40,767 --> 00:13:42,667
out there who has a sighting.

287
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,600
- Mm-hmm.
- And it's also a big factor

288
00:13:44,734 --> 00:13:47,467
as to why there isn't
more research being done

289
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:48,867
by the scientific community

290
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,266
because there's no money
to fund projects

291
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,533
that involve something
that's taboo, basically.

292
00:13:55,667 --> 00:13:56,834
- Yeah.

293
00:13:56,967 --> 00:13:58,533
- But I think it's gotten
a lot better.

294
00:13:58,667 --> 00:14:03,000
I think the December 17th
"New York Times" story--2017--

295
00:14:03,133 --> 00:14:05,200
really shifted things.

296
00:14:05,333 --> 00:14:09,100
Fishburne: In December 2017,
Leslie Kean broke the story

297
00:14:09,233 --> 00:14:11,600
that the Pentagon was running
a secret program

298
00:14:11,734 --> 00:14:15,033
to investigate UFOs,
although officially,

299
00:14:15,166 --> 00:14:17,467
the military
claimed all UFO research

300
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,367
had stopped in the 1960s.

301
00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:24,333
- The Pentagon had a secret
program that started in 2007,

302
00:14:24,467 --> 00:14:26,200
but sources have told me

303
00:14:26,333 --> 00:14:30,333
that there were programs
before that.

304
00:14:30,467 --> 00:14:33,000
Fishburne: Kean uncovered
not only a top-secret program

305
00:14:33,133 --> 00:14:35,567
but actual proof
that military pilots

306
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:39,433
reported sightings of UFOs
more than once.

307
00:14:39,567 --> 00:14:40,700
- The online version
of the story,

308
00:14:40,834 --> 00:14:42,533
which is the one
that most people read,

309
00:14:42,667 --> 00:14:46,166
included two official
Department of Defense

310
00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:49,633
videos taken of objects--
unidentified objects--

311
00:14:49,767 --> 00:14:52,467
and they were cleared
for public release.

312
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,533
- This is a [bleep] drone,
bro.

313
00:14:55,667 --> 00:14:57,967
- There's a whole fleet of
them. Look on the SA.

314
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:00,600
- Those videos were
spectacular,

315
00:15:00,734 --> 00:15:02,900
and they drew a lot
of attention to the article,

316
00:15:03,033 --> 00:15:05,734
and as far as I'm aware,
this is the first time

317
00:15:05,867 --> 00:15:10,233
the actual government videos
have been released of UFOs.

318
00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:17,600
- Nickel six 110, roger.
- Oh! Got it! Woo-hoo!

319
00:15:17,734 --> 00:15:18,800
Fishburne: But Kean says that

320
00:15:18,934 --> 00:15:20,500
before the videos
were leaked,

321
00:15:20,633 --> 00:15:22,266
the pilots felt
intense pressure

322
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,133
not to reveal
what they had witnessed.

323
00:15:25,266 --> 00:15:26,467
- These are patriots.

324
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:27,967
These are people
who are responsible

325
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:30,333
for the lives
of American citizens,

326
00:15:30,467 --> 00:15:33,734
highly trained,
highly credible.

327
00:15:33,867 --> 00:15:35,100
When they see something,

328
00:15:35,233 --> 00:15:36,600
they're not supposed
to talk about it.

329
00:15:36,734 --> 00:15:38,767
There's nowhere for them
to report it.

330
00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:41,700
It just--for me,
it borders on just

331
00:15:41,834 --> 00:15:44,300
a kind of irrationality
and disrespect.

332
00:15:44,433 --> 00:15:45,800
They struggle with this,

333
00:15:45,934 --> 00:15:47,500
and they feel that
their own government

334
00:15:47,633 --> 00:15:48,767
doesn't take them seriously.

335
00:15:48,900 --> 00:15:49,934
That's the problem.

336
00:15:50,066 --> 00:15:52,800
- Look at that thing, dude.

337
00:15:52,934 --> 00:15:54,433
Fishburne:
Ben Smith sees similarities

338
00:15:54,567 --> 00:15:56,100
between these events

339
00:15:56,233 --> 00:15:57,767
and what
Jesse Marcel's family

340
00:15:57,900 --> 00:16:01,700
says happened to him in 1947.

341
00:16:01,834 --> 00:16:04,900
- Jesse Marcel Sr.
told his grandchildren

342
00:16:05,033 --> 00:16:07,700
that, Fort Worth, when it was
the second press release

343
00:16:07,834 --> 00:16:11,633
with General Ramey, Jesse
was paraded into the room

344
00:16:11,767 --> 00:16:14,100
because he was the first
individual on the scene,

345
00:16:14,233 --> 00:16:17,500
and he was in the flying
saucer report the day before,

346
00:16:17,633 --> 00:16:19,166
and they put out this debris,

347
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:20,867
and Jesse told
his grandchildren

348
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,000
that that was not the debris
that he recovered.

349
00:16:23,133 --> 00:16:25,367
- But he had to pretend it was
during the press conference?

350
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:26,700
- He was told to shut his mouth

351
00:16:26,834 --> 00:16:28,166
and to just play along.

352
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:29,333
That was his claim.

353
00:16:29,467 --> 00:16:30,834
- Back in the day,
that was so common

354
00:16:30,967 --> 00:16:34,333
that these high-level
military people would,

355
00:16:34,467 --> 00:16:36,633
you know, know a lot
but feel they couldn't say it,

356
00:16:36,767 --> 00:16:38,800
and then they'd just go to
their graves, and that's it.

357
00:16:38,934 --> 00:16:40,233
- Yeah.

358
00:16:40,367 --> 00:16:42,200
- I have a lot of respect
for the Marcels

359
00:16:42,333 --> 00:16:43,967
and the Roswell witnesses,
absolutely.

360
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:46,967
When you see them talking
or you hear them,

361
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:48,934
they are as convincing
as anything,

362
00:16:49,066 --> 00:16:52,500
and I have no doubt
that they believe 100%

363
00:16:52,633 --> 00:16:53,500
in what they're saying.

364
00:16:53,633 --> 00:16:55,667
They're not lying or anything.

365
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,967
They had an experience.
They found something.

366
00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:01,633
They believe that it is
what they say it is,

367
00:17:01,767 --> 00:17:03,633
and they are
extremely convincing.

368
00:17:03,767 --> 00:17:05,300
You absolutely have
to take it seriously,

369
00:17:05,433 --> 00:17:06,734
and I just wish

370
00:17:06,867 --> 00:17:10,600
there was more information
to prove them right.

371
00:17:10,734 --> 00:17:13,133
♪ ♪

372
00:17:13,266 --> 00:17:15,233
Fishburne: That proof could
lie hidden in the journal

373
00:17:15,367 --> 00:17:19,934
that Jesse Marcel kept among
his most prized possessions.

374
00:17:20,066 --> 00:17:21,934
So far, Smith's investigation
has proven

375
00:17:22,066 --> 00:17:23,967
that the journal
is authentic,

376
00:17:24,100 --> 00:17:26,400
dates from the time
of the Roswell incident,

377
00:17:26,533 --> 00:17:29,500
and that Marcel
is not its author.

378
00:17:29,633 --> 00:17:31,800
♪ ♪

379
00:17:31,934 --> 00:17:34,767
Smith wants to find out
who wrote the journal,

380
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:36,767
why and what it means.

381
00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:38,700
♪ ♪

382
00:17:38,834 --> 00:17:41,300
- Without intuition to find
the information,

383
00:17:41,433 --> 00:17:44,433
you're useless in journalism
or intelligence, right?

384
00:17:44,567 --> 00:17:45,967
So you gotta follow your gut
'cause that's where

385
00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:46,967
you find the best gold.

386
00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:48,100
If it was easy to find,

387
00:17:48,233 --> 00:17:49,266
someone would've
found it by now.

388
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,633
- Right.

389
00:17:50,767 --> 00:17:52,200
Fishburne:
To plot his next steps,

390
00:17:52,333 --> 00:17:54,200
Smith meets
with Joe Pappalardo,

391
00:17:54,333 --> 00:17:56,900
a veteran aviation journalist
with a deep understanding

392
00:17:57,033 --> 00:18:00,600
of American military history
and the Roswell story.

393
00:18:02,934 --> 00:18:08,734
- So Craig, the cryptographer,
has some interesting insights

394
00:18:08,867 --> 00:18:10,300
that I did not pick up on,

395
00:18:10,433 --> 00:18:13,400
and right away, actually,
he picked up on some things

396
00:18:13,533 --> 00:18:15,600
that could actually
indicate code.

397
00:18:15,734 --> 00:18:17,333
Craig.
- Oh, hi.

398
00:18:17,467 --> 00:18:18,533
You must be Ben.
- That's right.

399
00:18:18,667 --> 00:18:20,266
- Good to meet you.
- You, too.

400
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:21,967
Fishburne: When Smith took
the journal to Craig Bauer,

401
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:24,033
one of the nation's
top code breakers,

402
00:18:24,166 --> 00:18:27,066
Bauer thought it could be
written in a home-brew code,

403
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,066
a pattern of letters or words
invented by the writer.

404
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,000
- To create something
just between friends,

405
00:18:33,133 --> 00:18:37,633
it's not that hard to make it
really hard to break.

406
00:18:37,767 --> 00:18:42,467
- This potential home-brew code
started just after Roswell.

407
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,767
In August 1947, we get this
weird kind of writing,

408
00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:48,133
so whatever it is,

409
00:18:48,266 --> 00:18:50,800
it's correlated
to that strange date.

410
00:18:50,934 --> 00:18:52,767
Now, we still don't have
the author,

411
00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:54,467
so we can't quite tell
what it is.

412
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:55,967
- I don't know.
Zodiac was like that,

413
00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:57,333
and they broke that code,
didn't they?

414
00:18:57,467 --> 00:18:58,600
As long as it says something,

415
00:18:58,734 --> 00:19:00,934
you should be able
to be break it.

416
00:19:01,066 --> 00:19:03,333
- If someone in the 509th
wrote the journal,

417
00:19:03,467 --> 00:19:04,867
and we can identify who,

418
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,066
it might lead us
to other documents

419
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,667
that allow us
to interpret its meaning,

420
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,700
sort of like a broken locket
where you have one half

421
00:19:11,834 --> 00:19:13,000
and I have the other.

422
00:19:13,133 --> 00:19:15,367
We put them together,
and it's a treasure map.

423
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:18,333
- So who, in your estimation,
would be someone

424
00:19:18,467 --> 00:19:20,266
that we'd be interested
in hearing from at the time

425
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,166
who would give him
this journal?

426
00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:26,700
- Well, as I understand, the
Roswell Army Air Force Base

427
00:19:26,834 --> 00:19:29,767
had almost 8,000 personnel
in 1947.

428
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:31,433
It's a huge base.

429
00:19:31,567 --> 00:19:32,867
But I think
it would be helpful

430
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,066
to focus my search
on the 509th group

431
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,266
and then his
counterintelligence group.

432
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,433
- That would be the kind
of person

433
00:19:39,567 --> 00:19:40,800
that would have information

434
00:19:40,934 --> 00:19:42,133
that would be
worth safeguarding,

435
00:19:42,266 --> 00:19:43,467
and they give it
to the point man

436
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,066
for the whole
Roswell incident.

437
00:19:46,233 --> 00:19:47,533
♪ ♪

438
00:19:47,667 --> 00:19:49,100
Fishburne: As the
intelligence officer

439
00:19:49,233 --> 00:19:51,333
in Roswell,
Marcel was trusted

440
00:19:51,467 --> 00:19:54,567
with the military's
most protected secrets,

441
00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:56,300
and according
to his grandson,

442
00:19:56,433 --> 00:19:59,400
he stayed silent
about what he saw in 1947

443
00:19:59,533 --> 00:20:01,400
to protect his family.

444
00:20:01,533 --> 00:20:02,867
♪ ♪

445
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,867
- When my grandfather started
talking about his experience

446
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,667
with the Roswell UFO,

447
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,600
he was careful about
what he told us.

448
00:20:09,734 --> 00:20:11,066
He didn't want
to tell us something

449
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:12,834
that we could tell somebody
that might lead us

450
00:20:12,967 --> 00:20:16,166
into a position where
we could've felt threatened.

451
00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:17,433
♪ ♪

452
00:20:17,567 --> 00:20:18,800
Fishburne:
Part of Marcel's job

453
00:20:18,934 --> 00:20:20,600
was to share
valuable intelligence

454
00:20:20,734 --> 00:20:22,734
with an inner circle
of officers

455
00:20:22,867 --> 00:20:25,100
at the 509th bomber group.

456
00:20:25,233 --> 00:20:27,200
Smith thinks whoever wrote
the journal might have been

457
00:20:27,333 --> 00:20:29,900
sharing something valuable
with Marcel.

458
00:20:30,033 --> 00:20:31,500
♪ ♪

459
00:20:31,633 --> 00:20:34,867
- I'm hoping I can get more
handwriting samples

460
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,767
of other people
in the 509th group

461
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:40,100
to see if this might
have been passed to him

462
00:20:40,233 --> 00:20:42,433
by somebody else
within the bomber group.

463
00:20:42,567 --> 00:20:44,166
- I would suggest if they're in
the 509th

464
00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:45,500
and if they were officers,

465
00:20:45,633 --> 00:20:47,533
they may have actually served
in World War II.

466
00:20:47,667 --> 00:20:51,000
They handwrote a lot of
after-action reports.

467
00:20:51,133 --> 00:20:53,367
If they were officers, there
may be handwriting samples

468
00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:57,400
that are in old World War II
bombing records and archives,

469
00:20:57,533 --> 00:20:59,333
where they flew in from,
the bombing assessments.

470
00:20:59,467 --> 00:21:00,800
There's a lot of information.

471
00:21:00,934 --> 00:21:02,100
You might actually hit
a little trove there.

472
00:21:02,233 --> 00:21:03,500
You might not,

473
00:21:03,633 --> 00:21:04,934
but, hey, at least
it's a rock to kick over.

474
00:21:05,066 --> 00:21:06,266
- Yeah.
That's an interesting point.

475
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:07,433
I hadn't considered that.

476
00:21:07,567 --> 00:21:09,934
- Cracking this part
of your mystery

477
00:21:10,066 --> 00:21:11,400
is only one good search away.

478
00:21:11,533 --> 00:21:14,500
If you find out who through
a handwriting analysis,

479
00:21:14,633 --> 00:21:15,734
then you could find out

480
00:21:15,867 --> 00:21:17,567
a little bit
more of the motive why.

481
00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:21,834
♪ ♪

482
00:21:21,967 --> 00:21:23,900
Fishburne: Coming up,
Smith uncovers

483
00:21:24,033 --> 00:21:25,967
the circle of officers
in the 509th

484
00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:28,467
who could've
shared Marcel's secret,

485
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:29,900
but will one of them

486
00:21:30,033 --> 00:21:32,166
match the handwriting
in the journal?

487
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:37,900
♪ ♪

488
00:21:41,567 --> 00:21:44,433
matic music]

489
00:21:44,567 --> 00:21:50,000
♪ ♪

490
00:21:50,133 --> 00:21:52,100
- I'm on my way to meet
Jennifer Naso,

491
00:21:52,233 --> 00:21:53,900
the handwriting expert.

492
00:21:54,033 --> 00:21:56,533
I have with me a number
of handwriting samples

493
00:21:56,667 --> 00:21:59,867
belonging to the people
closest to Jesse Marcel

494
00:22:00,066 --> 00:22:02,166
during the time
of the Roswell incident.

495
00:22:02,300 --> 00:22:03,800
♪ ♪

496
00:22:03,934 --> 00:22:05,934
Fishburne: Ben Smith has been
researching Jesse Marcel's

497
00:22:06,066 --> 00:22:08,266
fellow officers in the 509th.

498
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,700
He's gotten writing samples
for six individuals,

499
00:22:10,834 --> 00:22:13,734
an inner circle that
must have known details

500
00:22:13,867 --> 00:22:16,600
about what
really crashed at Roswell.

501
00:22:16,734 --> 00:22:17,967
♪ ♪

502
00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:20,066
- If it didn't belong to Jesse
and he kept it

503
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:21,800
in his
most prized possessions,

504
00:22:21,934 --> 00:22:24,266
it had to have belonged
to somebody important to him.

505
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,567
♪ ♪

506
00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:26,934
Fishburne:
Now the question is,

507
00:22:27,066 --> 00:22:29,367
does anybody's
writing match the journal?

508
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:31,300
♪ ♪

509
00:22:31,433 --> 00:22:32,700
- Hey. Come on in.

510
00:22:32,834 --> 00:22:34,767
- I'm back with more work
for you.

511
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:36,200
- Tell me what you have.

512
00:22:36,333 --> 00:22:40,633
- I took the journal
to a code breaking expert.

513
00:22:40,767 --> 00:22:42,266
First of all, he took a look
at the journal,

514
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,400
and to his eyes, a few things
immediately popped up

515
00:22:45,533 --> 00:22:48,900
that suggested there might be
some kind of code.

516
00:22:49,033 --> 00:22:50,233
Now, he ran the numbers

517
00:22:50,367 --> 00:22:54,066
and was not able to find
any coherent message.

518
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,934
- That does not correspond
to a letter.

519
00:22:56,066 --> 00:23:00,133
- So his next best guess
was that maybe there was

520
00:23:00,266 --> 00:23:05,000
some kind of encryption system
that only the author knew of.

521
00:23:05,133 --> 00:23:08,567
So that gets back to the
question, well, who wrote it?

522
00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:11,233
- Who is the author?
- Who is the author?

523
00:23:11,367 --> 00:23:14,600
So I have brought a number
of handwriting samples...

524
00:23:14,734 --> 00:23:17,667
- Oh.
- From key individuals

525
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,800
at the Roswell Army
Air Force Base.

526
00:23:20,934 --> 00:23:24,667
Let me start
with Colonel Blanchard,

527
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,333
who was Jesse Marcel's
direct commanding officer

528
00:23:28,467 --> 00:23:32,433
and the head
of the 509th bomber group.

529
00:23:32,567 --> 00:23:35,667
Fishburne: In 1947, Colonel
William "Butch" Blanchard

530
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,400
was commander of the 509th
bomber group

531
00:23:38,533 --> 00:23:40,266
based at Roswell.

532
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,500
A highly decorated
World War II hero

533
00:23:42,633 --> 00:23:46,200
who had helped plan the Enola
Gay's bombing of Hiroshima,

534
00:23:46,333 --> 00:23:47,600
Blanchard was in charge

535
00:23:47,734 --> 00:23:50,433
of America's
only nuclear attack force.

536
00:23:50,567 --> 00:23:52,500
It was a job in which
he would certainly know

537
00:23:52,633 --> 00:23:54,367
about any
top-secret operation

538
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:56,967
involving his air base.

539
00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:59,166
The officer
he might have been closest to

540
00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:01,233
was Jesse Marcel.

541
00:24:01,367 --> 00:24:03,000
The Blanchards
and the Marcels

542
00:24:03,133 --> 00:24:04,467
were regular bridge partners.

543
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,667
♪ ♪

544
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,700
- We have Walter Haut,
the press corps officer

545
00:24:11,834 --> 00:24:13,867
who organized
the press releases

546
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,900
and wrote the infamous
flying-saucer press release.

547
00:24:18,033 --> 00:24:20,166
Fishburne: As the base
public information officer,

548
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:22,834
Lieutenant Walter Haut
was ordered by Blanchard

549
00:24:22,967 --> 00:24:24,734
to draft that famous
press release

550
00:24:24,867 --> 00:24:28,166
that a flying disc
had been recovered.

551
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:30,667
In his later years,
Haut came forward to say

552
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,600
he believed Marcel had been
telling the truth

553
00:24:33,734 --> 00:24:35,200
and went so far as to say

554
00:24:35,333 --> 00:24:38,066
that he himself had glimpsed
bodies of aliens.

555
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,900
♪ ♪

556
00:24:41,033 --> 00:24:44,233
- We have Bob Shirkey.

557
00:24:44,367 --> 00:24:45,700
Fishburne:
Lieutenant Robert Shirkey

558
00:24:45,834 --> 00:24:47,700
was assistant
group operations officer

559
00:24:47,834 --> 00:24:49,500
for the 509th.

560
00:24:49,633 --> 00:24:51,867
If the debris
was extraterrestrial,

561
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,133
Shirkey would've
been in charge

562
00:24:53,266 --> 00:24:54,633
of arranging its transport

563
00:24:54,767 --> 00:24:57,133
to the Army's top-secret
research facility,

564
00:24:57,266 --> 00:24:59,533
Wright-Patterson.

565
00:24:59,667 --> 00:25:02,433
After retiring from
the military, Shirkey later

566
00:25:02,567 --> 00:25:06,567
claimed that Jesse Marcel
was telling the truth.

567
00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:08,934
- And over here
we have Edwin Easley.

568
00:25:09,066 --> 00:25:11,700
Edwin Easley
was the provost marshal

569
00:25:11,834 --> 00:25:14,100
at the 509th bomber group.

570
00:25:14,233 --> 00:25:15,500
Fishburne: Major Edwin Easley

571
00:25:15,633 --> 00:25:17,266
was in charge
of base security.

572
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,967
He would've been responsible
for safeguarding the debris

573
00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:21,400
and controlling
which personnel

574
00:25:21,533 --> 00:25:22,900
had access to it.

575
00:25:23,033 --> 00:25:25,567
In this capacity,
it's not unreasonable

576
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:28,166
to assume he knew
what the crates contained.

577
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:30,200
♪ ♪

578
00:25:30,333 --> 00:25:32,500
- He would've been responsible
for organizing

579
00:25:32,633 --> 00:25:34,300
the cleanup effort
to pull in,

580
00:25:34,433 --> 00:25:36,066
to collect the debris.

581
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,233
We also have Patrick Saunders.

582
00:25:40,367 --> 00:25:44,633
Patrick Saunders
was the office administrator

583
00:25:44,767 --> 00:25:46,333
for Colonel Blanchard,

584
00:25:46,467 --> 00:25:49,433
so he would've been involved
in all the record keeping

585
00:25:49,567 --> 00:25:51,000
and issuing the orders.

586
00:25:51,133 --> 00:25:53,000
♪ ♪

587
00:25:53,133 --> 00:25:54,300
Fishburne: Patrick Saunders

588
00:25:54,433 --> 00:25:56,200
was Colonel Blanchard's
top deputy.

589
00:25:56,333 --> 00:25:58,166
He had flown
37 combat missions

590
00:25:58,300 --> 00:25:59,667
in World War II

591
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,467
and had just as many medals
as his boss.

592
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,567
As Colonel Blanchard's
number two,

593
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:06,166
he would've been in the room

594
00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:08,800
when Jesse Marcel returned
from the debris field

595
00:26:08,934 --> 00:26:13,133
and debriefed the colonel.

596
00:26:13,266 --> 00:26:15,734
- If there's anybody at
the 509th bomber group

597
00:26:15,867 --> 00:26:18,867
who knows everything, it's
this guy, Patrick Saunders.

598
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,333
So if this handwriting
matched,

599
00:26:21,467 --> 00:26:23,166
it would mean everything
to the journal

600
00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:27,967
because here is a man who had
access to all kinds of secrets

601
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:31,800
who may have wanted to confide
something in Jesse Marcel.

602
00:26:31,934 --> 00:26:37,300
- Okay, so we'll compare
these writings to the journal.

603
00:26:37,433 --> 00:26:39,367
So what I notice
right off the bat

604
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:40,934
with the Blanchard signature,

605
00:26:41,066 --> 00:26:43,734
that's all the writing
that we have, correct?

606
00:26:43,867 --> 00:26:45,333
- Right.

607
00:26:45,467 --> 00:26:48,800
- Just having the one signature
to compare to a extended body

608
00:26:48,934 --> 00:26:53,667
of text writing poses a big
limitation to the examination.

609
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,867
From what I see in the Patrick
Saunders writing...

610
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,100
- Mm-hmm.
- While there's a bit more

611
00:27:00,233 --> 00:27:01,367
than just one signature,

612
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:03,934
it's really just
the one sentence,

613
00:27:04,066 --> 00:27:05,734
and so the limitation
is still

614
00:27:05,867 --> 00:27:08,800
the lack of quantity
of known writing.

615
00:27:08,934 --> 00:27:11,433
- Right. Right.
- It's a bit of a blurry copy,

616
00:27:11,567 --> 00:27:14,567
and so it's hard to tell
the pen movements,

617
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:16,934
and some of the fine
and subtle features

618
00:27:17,066 --> 00:27:18,567
of the formations
of the letters

619
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:22,066
might be lost in the image
quality of that copy.

620
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,200
Looking at
the Walter Haut handwriting

621
00:27:24,333 --> 00:27:25,767
and the Bob Shirkey writing,

622
00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:30,133
this is a more extended
sample of writing,

623
00:27:30,266 --> 00:27:32,400
so there's going to be
a lot more information,

624
00:27:32,533 --> 00:27:33,967
almost characteristics

625
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:36,500
that I'm going to be able
to compare to the journal.

626
00:27:36,633 --> 00:27:40,066
- Even if you can provide any,
even just the slightest

627
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,200
new piece of information
on one or the other,

628
00:27:43,333 --> 00:27:47,700
it could help me eliminate
one person from the group

629
00:27:47,834 --> 00:27:49,900
closest to Jesse Marcel.
And if I have to,

630
00:27:50,033 --> 00:27:51,800
I may have to
expand the search

631
00:27:51,934 --> 00:27:53,200
and move out from there

632
00:27:53,333 --> 00:27:57,000
to identify who could've
given him this journal.

633
00:27:57,133 --> 00:27:58,533
Fishburne: Smith will leave
the journal,

634
00:27:58,667 --> 00:28:00,700
which was so precious
to Jesse Marcel,

635
00:28:00,834 --> 00:28:04,500
in Naso's hands, hoping
she can uncover its author.

636
00:28:04,633 --> 00:28:07,934
♪ ♪

637
00:28:08,066 --> 00:28:12,133
Coming up, the investigation
returns to Marcel's hometown.

638
00:28:12,266 --> 00:28:15,367
What did he tell his family
and no one else?

639
00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:17,133
- He said, "There are things

640
00:28:17,266 --> 00:28:20,233
that this world
is not ready for."

641
00:28:20,367 --> 00:28:24,467
♪ ♪

642
00:28:27,867 --> 00:28:30,734
[dramatic music]

643
00:28:30,867 --> 00:28:37,834
♪ ♪

644
00:28:40,834 --> 00:28:42,066
Fishburne: As the search

645
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,633
for the journal's author
escalates,

646
00:28:43,767 --> 00:28:46,033
Ben Smith returns
to Jesse Marcel's hometown

647
00:28:46,166 --> 00:28:48,433
of Houma, Louisiana.

648
00:28:48,567 --> 00:28:50,333
Marcel's granddaughter,
Denice,

649
00:28:50,467 --> 00:28:53,567
has convinced the extended
Marcel family to divulge

650
00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:55,967
some of the strange things
Jesse told them.

651
00:28:58,033 --> 00:29:01,433
- So how is everyone related
to Jesse Marcel?

652
00:29:01,567 --> 00:29:05,467
- He was my
brother-in-law's uncle.

653
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,000
- Okay.
- But I always called him

654
00:29:08,133 --> 00:29:11,934
Uncle Jesse.
- You know, we're all cousins.

655
00:29:12,066 --> 00:29:13,500
- Yeah.
[laughter]

656
00:29:13,633 --> 00:29:17,133
- My grandmother and Jesse
were brother and sister.

657
00:29:17,266 --> 00:29:18,600
- Oh, wow.
- Mm-hmm.

658
00:29:18,734 --> 00:29:21,667
- Okay, so do you remember
speaking to him a lot?

659
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,367
- Yes.
- Yeah.

660
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:27,200
- We were very close. We lived
next door to him for 10 years.

661
00:29:27,333 --> 00:29:29,800
I went over there a lot.

662
00:29:29,934 --> 00:29:31,800
Fishburne: Smith wants
to know what they know

663
00:29:31,934 --> 00:29:34,600
from the lips
of Marcel himself.

664
00:29:34,734 --> 00:29:37,400
Their memories seem clear.

665
00:29:37,533 --> 00:29:38,767
- Wallace, how old were you

666
00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:41,100
when Jesse
shared his story with you?

667
00:29:41,233 --> 00:29:43,533
- I was a teenager.
- You were a teenager?

668
00:29:43,667 --> 00:29:46,433
- Uh-huh. I want to say
that it was in 1957.

669
00:29:46,567 --> 00:29:50,033
- In 1957,
just 10 years after Roswell.

670
00:29:50,166 --> 00:29:52,066
- Yeah.
- Okay.

671
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,767
- I was 12, 13 years old
or something like that.

672
00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:56,100
- Yeah. Okay.

673
00:29:56,233 --> 00:29:58,767
- He told me, "Don't believe
everything

674
00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:02,700
the government tells you,"
and he started telling me

675
00:30:02,834 --> 00:30:05,667
the story
about the crash in Roswell

676
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:11,433
and that they forced him
to lie about it.

677
00:30:11,567 --> 00:30:13,266
Fishburne: This means
that two decades

678
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,967
before he told the world

679
00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:17,734
an extraterrestrial
spacecraft had crashed,

680
00:30:17,867 --> 00:30:21,467
Marcel told the same story
with the same details

681
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,600
to the people he trusted.

682
00:30:23,734 --> 00:30:25,266
- What details
did he describe?

683
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,433
Did he mention
a UFO crash? Did he--

684
00:30:28,567 --> 00:30:30,367
- He did tell me
a UFO crashed.

685
00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:32,000
- Okay.
- He was telling me

686
00:30:32,133 --> 00:30:35,066
about what it looked like.

687
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,133
I put two and two
together and figured,

688
00:30:37,266 --> 00:30:38,734
I think he's telling me

689
00:30:38,867 --> 00:30:41,333
that we've got people
from outer space coming here.

690
00:30:41,467 --> 00:30:43,767
- Okay, and what was
your reaction then?

691
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:45,333
What did you think?

692
00:30:45,467 --> 00:30:47,100
- Looking up
at the sky at night.

693
00:30:47,233 --> 00:30:48,600
[laughter]

694
00:30:48,734 --> 00:30:50,100
- Did you believe him?

695
00:30:50,233 --> 00:30:51,700
- Of course I believed him.
- Yeah.

696
00:30:51,834 --> 00:30:53,066
- 'Cause I don't think
Uncle Jesse

697
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,400
would've lied to anybody.
- Right.

698
00:30:55,533 --> 00:30:57,600
- He wasn't that type of man.

699
00:30:57,734 --> 00:31:00,066
- Wallace remembers
talking to Jesse.

700
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,567
I don't remember
talking to him.

701
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:04,066
- Okay.
- But Jesse told my dad

702
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,166
stories about
the Roswell incident.

703
00:31:08,300 --> 00:31:10,000
Fishburne: And those stories
went further

704
00:31:10,133 --> 00:31:13,967
than anything Jesse Marcel
ever said in public.

705
00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:16,166
- The thing that interested me
the most was

706
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:20,266
that Jesse
drew a picture of an alien.

707
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,000
- Jesse drew a picture
of an alien?

708
00:31:22,133 --> 00:31:25,000
- Yeah. He hand-drew a picture
of an alien.

709
00:31:25,133 --> 00:31:28,166
- Huh.
- Yeah.

710
00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:34,033
- My dad lost that picture,
but later on in life, he wrote,

711
00:31:34,166 --> 00:31:39,000
"What the picture looks like
that Jesse drew for me."

712
00:31:39,133 --> 00:31:43,934
♪ ♪

713
00:31:44,066 --> 00:31:45,934
- It looked like the picture
that Jesse drew.

714
00:31:46,066 --> 00:31:47,300
- Yeah.

715
00:31:47,433 --> 00:31:49,033
- That's the first time
I'm hearing any stories

716
00:31:49,166 --> 00:31:53,300
about Jesse himself drawing
or referencing an alien.

717
00:31:53,433 --> 00:31:55,433
- I don't remember
my dad ever saying

718
00:31:55,567 --> 00:31:58,667
that Jesse saw an alien.
- Okay.

719
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,166
- Maybe somebody
told him about this.

720
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:05,200
- I--so, Wallace, do you think

721
00:32:05,333 --> 00:32:09,333
that extraterrestrials
crashed in 1947?

722
00:32:09,467 --> 00:32:10,533
- Yeah.

723
00:32:10,667 --> 00:32:14,066
- Okay.

724
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,000
Did Jesse ever tell you, June,

725
00:32:16,133 --> 00:32:18,266
about his experience
at Roswell?

726
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,900
- Yes.
- He did?

727
00:32:20,033 --> 00:32:23,333
- He did. I think probably '74
to '76, somewhere in there.

728
00:32:23,467 --> 00:32:24,533
- Okay.

729
00:32:24,667 --> 00:32:27,000
- He started talking
to me about it.

730
00:32:27,133 --> 00:32:28,800
- Mm-hmm.
- Basically what

731
00:32:28,934 --> 00:32:30,333
they're telling you, too.

732
00:32:30,467 --> 00:32:31,500
He found wreckage.

733
00:32:31,633 --> 00:32:33,900
He said
it was not of this world.

734
00:32:34,033 --> 00:32:35,900
- Mm-hmm.
- He described the metal,

735
00:32:36,033 --> 00:32:38,233
saying that you could
crumble it up in your hand,

736
00:32:38,367 --> 00:32:42,967
but it would automatically go
right back like it had memory.

737
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:44,900
- Mm-hmm. Okay.
He used the word memory?

738
00:32:45,033 --> 00:32:46,233
- Mm-hmm.
- Okay.

739
00:32:46,367 --> 00:32:49,233
- And my daughter,
who was 10 at the time,

740
00:32:49,367 --> 00:32:51,867
approached him and asked him,

741
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,500
"Uncle Jesse,
were there any bodies?"

742
00:32:55,633 --> 00:32:57,667
And he looked at her,

743
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,600
and she says his eyes kind of
glazed over, and he said,

744
00:33:01,734 --> 00:33:05,900
"There are things that
this world is not ready for."

745
00:33:06,033 --> 00:33:07,433
- That's what he told
your daughter?

746
00:33:07,567 --> 00:33:09,433
"There are things this world
is not ready for."

747
00:33:09,567 --> 00:33:11,266
- Right.
- Yeah.

748
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:12,600
Fishburne:
In front of family members,

749
00:33:12,734 --> 00:33:14,133
Jesse displayed emotions

750
00:33:14,266 --> 00:33:17,433
he kept hidden
from the outside world.

751
00:33:17,567 --> 00:33:21,233
- He seemed angry at times
about the government.

752
00:33:21,367 --> 00:33:27,900
He told us that they had
told him to change the story

753
00:33:28,033 --> 00:33:29,767
and that it was
not UFO wreckage.

754
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:32,266
It was a weather balloon.

755
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,934
I think it bothered him a lot,

756
00:33:35,066 --> 00:33:39,233
you know, that he was told
to shut up about it.

757
00:33:39,367 --> 00:33:44,266
It was a very notable event
in American history,

758
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:45,734
and he couldn't talk about it.

759
00:33:45,867 --> 00:33:47,600
- Right.
- You know, and it was him

760
00:33:47,734 --> 00:33:50,633
that found it,
you know, and then had to lie.

761
00:33:50,767 --> 00:33:51,600
- Right.
- You know,

762
00:33:51,734 --> 00:33:54,066
so that tore him up.

763
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,100
- Right.
- It really did.

764
00:33:57,233 --> 00:34:01,667
I think he needed
to express himself about it,

765
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,967
so back in '78, '79, he got
sort of emboldened about it

766
00:34:07,100 --> 00:34:09,934
and decided
he was going to talk.

767
00:34:10,066 --> 00:34:12,900
- Yeah, but you heard
all of these stories

768
00:34:13,033 --> 00:34:15,166
before
there was any big media...

769
00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:18,100
- Absolutely.
- Sensation about the story.

770
00:34:18,233 --> 00:34:19,834
- Absolutely.
He was being open

771
00:34:19,967 --> 00:34:22,433
with family about it.

772
00:34:22,567 --> 00:34:25,166
- My family members
were aware of that.

773
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:28,667
It really upset him a lot
that people thought

774
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,300
that he was making it up,
you know?

775
00:34:30,433 --> 00:34:31,667
- Yeah.
- He had to kind of deal

776
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,767
with some ridicule,
and that kind of--

777
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:37,200
- Well, I know it wasn't
from our family

778
00:34:37,333 --> 00:34:38,900
that he got that from.
- Right.

779
00:34:39,033 --> 00:34:42,367
- Outsiders would ridicule him
and call him Crazy Jesse

780
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:43,867
because --
- Oh, really?

781
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,533
- Because of when they
started hearing about Roswell.

782
00:34:48,667 --> 00:34:51,500
- That must be hard for
an intelligence officer,

783
00:34:51,633 --> 00:34:55,800
a decorated veteran
to be ridiculed

784
00:34:55,934 --> 00:34:58,633
by his neighbors
and his community.

785
00:34:58,767 --> 00:34:59,834
- Yeah.
- That's--

786
00:34:59,967 --> 00:35:02,667
- I think that would've been
hard for him.

787
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:03,967
- Well, all the reports
have been lost.

788
00:35:04,100 --> 00:35:05,800
All of the original files
have been lost,

789
00:35:05,934 --> 00:35:10,233
so at this point in time,
it really is Jesse's word

790
00:35:10,367 --> 00:35:13,767
against the government's
word, right?

791
00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:17,033
One part of my investigation,
and it's just a part,

792
00:35:17,166 --> 00:35:22,433
is to see can we find any proof
anywhere that this happened?

793
00:35:22,567 --> 00:35:28,700
- Yeah.
- June, did Jesse ever hint

794
00:35:28,834 --> 00:35:32,934
that he might have something
more, more information,

795
00:35:33,066 --> 00:35:36,200
more details or maybe
something hidden in his house?

796
00:35:36,333 --> 00:35:38,967
♪ ♪

797
00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:43,767
- What he told me is,
he came home to Roswell.

798
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:46,033
He had some wreckage
in his car.

799
00:35:46,166 --> 00:35:47,800
- Mm-hmm.
- He pulled it out

800
00:35:47,934 --> 00:35:51,333
and brought it inside
and showed his family.

801
00:35:51,467 --> 00:35:53,433
♪ ♪

802
00:35:53,567 --> 00:35:58,867
But what other things he
might've done, I don't know.

803
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,467
He did not ever tell me that
he had anything, you know?

804
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,033
- Okay.

805
00:36:04,166 --> 00:36:08,266
- A piece of the wreckage
or anything like that, no.

806
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,200
♪ ♪

807
00:36:11,333 --> 00:36:14,266
Fishburne: Coming up, did
Jesse Marcel keep evidence

808
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,166
of what crashed all along...
- Jesse said he had proof?

809
00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:20,533
- I said, "Oh, I'd love
to see it."

810
00:36:20,667 --> 00:36:24,100
Fishburne: Hidden in his
house in Houma?

811
00:36:24,233 --> 00:36:27,300
♪ ♪

812
00:36:30,767 --> 00:36:33,600
[dramatic mus]

813
00:36:33,734 --> 00:36:38,433
♪ ♪

814
00:36:38,567 --> 00:36:40,266
Fishburne: After meeting
with the Marcel family

815
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,100
in Jesse's hometown of Houma,

816
00:36:42,233 --> 00:36:44,600
former CIA investigator
Ben Smith

817
00:36:44,734 --> 00:36:46,867
and Jesse's
granddaughter, Denice,

818
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,367
get the opportunity to meet
someone outside the family

819
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:52,533
who claims Jesse shared
with him

820
00:36:52,667 --> 00:36:56,133
extraordinary details
of the Roswell incident,

821
00:36:56,266 --> 00:36:59,266
secrets that might lie hidden
in the coded writing

822
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:00,834
of the mysterious journal.

823
00:37:00,967 --> 00:37:03,867
- He started off by saying,
"Look, you know,

824
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,066
this thing
that happened to me was real."

825
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,667
Fishburne:
Calvin Parker says

826
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,900
he was introduced
to Jesse Marcel

827
00:37:10,033 --> 00:37:11,667
by a mutual acquaintance.

828
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,367
- Your granddaddy said
that they staged a site away

829
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:16,834
from the actual site

830
00:37:16,967 --> 00:37:19,767
to keep the
general public away.

831
00:37:19,900 --> 00:37:22,166
They took weather balloons
out to the field

832
00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:24,600
and tried to distribute
little pieces around

833
00:37:24,734 --> 00:37:26,600
so people could find them.

834
00:37:26,734 --> 00:37:28,600
- That I have never heard.

835
00:37:28,734 --> 00:37:30,867
Fishburne: Parker claims
that Jesse Marcel told him

836
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,133
about an elaborate
military operation

837
00:37:33,266 --> 00:37:36,734
to retrieve alien bodies
and orchestrate a cover-up

838
00:37:36,867 --> 00:37:41,066
to make it look like a
weather balloon had crashed.

839
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:42,400
- The first time
he mentioned it,

840
00:37:42,533 --> 00:37:44,734
he said they was
actually bodies out.

841
00:37:44,867 --> 00:37:47,667
- He said that he saw some?
- Exactly.

842
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,233
A special unit got the bodies,
and he wasn't part of that.

843
00:37:51,367 --> 00:37:52,600
- Oh.
- But they took them back

844
00:37:52,734 --> 00:37:55,066
to the base at Roswell.

845
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,033
- And he described
all of this to you?

846
00:37:57,166 --> 00:37:58,567
- He described every bit
of it to me.

847
00:37:58,700 --> 00:38:00,233
- It's so interesting
that these are details

848
00:38:00,367 --> 00:38:01,500
that I've not heard before--
- Yeah.

849
00:38:01,633 --> 00:38:02,834
I've not heard these either.

850
00:38:02,967 --> 00:38:04,467
- That he didn't tell
Linda Corley,

851
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,500
that he didn't tell
his family members.

852
00:38:06,633 --> 00:38:08,734
- He didn't tell us, yep.
- That's pretty--

853
00:38:08,867 --> 00:38:11,734
- Well, he felt like he could
talk because I told him

854
00:38:11,867 --> 00:38:13,433
that as long as he was alive,

855
00:38:13,567 --> 00:38:17,266
I would never say
nothing about it, and I didn't.

856
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:18,900
To my surprise, he told me--

857
00:38:19,033 --> 00:38:24,533
He said, "I've got something
that I want to show you."

858
00:38:24,667 --> 00:38:26,800
He said, "I have evidence.

859
00:38:26,934 --> 00:38:28,967
I have proof of this."
- He has proof?

860
00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:31,600
Jesse said he had proof?

861
00:38:31,734 --> 00:38:35,367
- I said, "Oh, I'd love
to see it,"

862
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:37,767
so he told me
there's a screwdriver

863
00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:40,400
in the kitchen drawer,
go get it,

864
00:38:40,533 --> 00:38:44,400
go down to a hot-water heater
and take the top off

865
00:38:44,533 --> 00:38:46,834
and bring it up here to me.

866
00:38:46,967 --> 00:38:49,800
Fishburne: Calvin Parker
says that Marcel told him

867
00:38:49,934 --> 00:38:52,800
he'd kept pieces of debris
from the Roswell crash

868
00:38:52,934 --> 00:38:56,467
and hidden them inside
a water heater in his home.

869
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,967
- I was fixing to unscrew it.
I was going to look at these.

870
00:38:59,100 --> 00:39:01,367
- So you actually touched it
and put the screwdriver to it?

871
00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:05,300
- Oh, I was ready to when
somebody showed up at the door.

872
00:39:05,433 --> 00:39:07,033
- Huh.
- Oh, my gosh.

873
00:39:07,166 --> 00:39:09,200
- I don't know who this was
knocking at the door,

874
00:39:09,333 --> 00:39:13,133
but he didn't want to talk
about it in front of him.

875
00:39:13,266 --> 00:39:14,400
- Right.
- So I didn't feel

876
00:39:14,533 --> 00:39:17,400
real welcome there,
and I got up and left.

877
00:39:17,533 --> 00:39:19,533
I was planning on coming back
the next day,

878
00:39:19,667 --> 00:39:21,567
but I had to go to work.

879
00:39:21,700 --> 00:39:26,133
I went offshore for 160 days,
and I got back,

880
00:39:26,266 --> 00:39:28,300
and I couldn't wait
to get back over and see

881
00:39:28,433 --> 00:39:30,667
and get that debris.

882
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,133
I went to the house, and I
found out he had passed away.

883
00:39:34,266 --> 00:39:37,033
It broke my heart.

884
00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:40,266
- Did your father ever talk
to you about the water heater,

885
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,667
about hiding debris
here in Houma?

886
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,500
- No. This is literally
the first time

887
00:39:44,633 --> 00:39:47,600
I've ever heard this story.
If anything, I always was told

888
00:39:47,734 --> 00:39:51,133
that my grandfather
didn't keep anything.

889
00:39:51,266 --> 00:39:54,333
Did he ever say why he had
never brought it out earlier?

890
00:39:54,467 --> 00:39:56,166
That would've helped
prove his story

891
00:39:56,300 --> 00:39:57,800
that he wasn't making it up
and is like,

892
00:39:57,934 --> 00:39:59,800
"Hey, people.
I really do have proof,"

893
00:39:59,934 --> 00:40:01,900
so I'm wondering--
I'm curious as to why

894
00:40:02,033 --> 00:40:04,633
he decided to show it
to you at that point.

895
00:40:04,767 --> 00:40:07,000
- Well, he was real loyal
to his country.

896
00:40:07,133 --> 00:40:09,367
- Right.
- He was military.

897
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:12,867
You follow orders when
the military gives you orders.

898
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,867
And I think there was

899
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,767
a reluctance there
against his conscience

900
00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:21,867
about coming out against
an order that he had had.

901
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,400
- Right.
- He told me that

902
00:40:23,533 --> 00:40:24,800
when he took this material,

903
00:40:24,934 --> 00:40:27,867
it was a real trip
for him to keep it hid,

904
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,734
but he knew that he'd never
get to see it again

905
00:40:30,867 --> 00:40:32,667
when they got to Roswell.

906
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,734
- Yeah.
- So he,

907
00:40:34,867 --> 00:40:37,066
for lack of a better word,
had to steal it--

908
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:38,567
- Yeah.

909
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:40,800
- From the cleanup effort.
- He stole the material, yeah.

910
00:40:40,934 --> 00:40:42,500
The man was on his deathbed.

911
00:40:42,633 --> 00:40:44,033
- Right.
- You could tell

912
00:40:44,166 --> 00:40:46,834
physically that he was having
to take something.

913
00:40:46,967 --> 00:40:48,967
- Yeah.
- But mentally, he seemed

914
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:51,467
to be intact,
he seemed to be all there.

915
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,567
- Yeah.
- He didn't wanna die

916
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:55,433
with this on his conscience.

917
00:40:55,567 --> 00:40:58,200
♪ ♪

918
00:40:58,333 --> 00:41:02,600
- From a security standpoint,
it makes sense that Jesse Sr.

919
00:41:02,734 --> 00:41:05,567
would anticipate continued
scrutiny on his family.

920
00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:07,233
- Yes.
- And that he might

921
00:41:07,367 --> 00:41:09,734
want to introduce
somebody without--

922
00:41:09,867 --> 00:41:12,500
who believes,
who we can identify with

923
00:41:12,633 --> 00:41:15,100
but without
that public presence.

924
00:41:15,233 --> 00:41:17,533
- Right.
- Someone like Calvin.

925
00:41:17,667 --> 00:41:19,533
- Right.

926
00:41:19,667 --> 00:41:22,800
♪ ♪

927
00:41:22,934 --> 00:41:25,867
- There could be some debris
left around,

928
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,867
probably right there
in that house somewhere,

929
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,567
if it's still there.

930
00:41:29,700 --> 00:41:32,066
- So you think the debris
could still be at the house?

931
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,567
- I know it could be.
- Huh.

932
00:41:34,700 --> 00:41:36,734
The house is just down
the road from here, and--

933
00:41:36,867 --> 00:41:38,767
- Yeah.
There's no doubt in my mind.

934
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:41,066
- And I've been
to the debris field.

935
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:42,633
I've been out there searching,

936
00:41:42,767 --> 00:41:44,233
and it's hard
to find anything,

937
00:41:44,367 --> 00:41:46,934
but here actually is a fresh
lead in the investigation

938
00:41:47,066 --> 00:41:48,533
that I haven't encountered yet.

939
00:41:48,667 --> 00:41:50,033
- It could mean everything.
- Yeah, everything.

940
00:41:50,166 --> 00:41:51,500
- This is probably
the best chance

941
00:41:51,633 --> 00:41:54,266
we have of finding anything
left of that crash site.

942
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:55,867
- Right.

943
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,767
- Thank you for taking the
time. This has been wonderful.

944
00:41:57,900 --> 00:42:00,200
- Thank you.
It's been my pleasure.

945
00:42:00,333 --> 00:42:02,333
- Thank you very much.
- Denice, thank you.

946
00:42:02,467 --> 00:42:03,700
- Thank you.

947
00:42:03,834 --> 00:42:07,266
♪ ♪

948
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,633
- Order of business
number one is get that home

949
00:42:10,767 --> 00:42:14,200
and see what we can find.
- Yes.

950
00:42:14,333 --> 00:42:15,867
- The trickiest part
about the debris field

951
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,266
is that even if we find
a piece of metal,

952
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:19,967
we have no idea
how it got there.

953
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:21,000
- Right.
- So many people

954
00:42:21,133 --> 00:42:22,867
have been there over time,

955
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,333
before and after.

956
00:42:24,467 --> 00:42:27,433
It could've arrived there
in any number of ways,

957
00:42:27,567 --> 00:42:32,467
But if we something hidden on
the inside of a water heater,

958
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,066
we know your grandfather
put it there.

959
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,133
- Right.

960
00:42:36,266 --> 00:42:38,100
Fishburne: If they could find
a piece of debris

961
00:42:38,233 --> 00:42:39,667
taken from the crash site,

962
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,834
it would be
an astounding development

963
00:42:41,967 --> 00:42:44,233
in the saga of Roswell.

964
00:42:44,367 --> 00:42:45,700
♪ ♪

965
00:42:45,834 --> 00:42:47,667
Smith and Denice Marcel

966
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,900
will try to get inside
Jesse Marcel's old house,

967
00:42:51,033 --> 00:42:53,166
which is only
a short drive away.

968
00:42:53,300 --> 00:42:54,467
♪ ♪

969
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,767
- Coming into this cold.

970
00:42:56,900 --> 00:42:58,000
The person doesn't know us.

971
00:42:58,133 --> 00:42:59,533
We don't know them.
- Right.

972
00:42:59,667 --> 00:43:01,867
- We just have to be
prepared for the gamut.

973
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,166
- I got you.

974
00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:06,567
- Tea and cookies versus
shotgun kind of thing.

975
00:43:06,700 --> 00:43:07,934
- Okay.
- So I have no idea.

976
00:43:08,066 --> 00:43:15,000
♪ ♪

977
00:43:17,433 --> 00:43:19,500
Let's not say
that we're UFO researchers.

978
00:43:19,633 --> 00:43:21,400
- Oh, yeah. No.
- We're researching

979
00:43:21,533 --> 00:43:23,400
local family history.
- Okay.

980
00:43:23,533 --> 00:43:24,400
- You used to live
in the house.

981
00:43:24,533 --> 00:43:25,734
- Okay.
- The Marcel family,

982
00:43:25,867 --> 00:43:27,200
in particular,

983
00:43:27,333 --> 00:43:28,767
and we can get into
the UFO stuff later...

984
00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:30,133
- Okay.
- Once we feel comfortable

985
00:43:30,266 --> 00:43:31,567
that it's not gonna
put them off.

986
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:33,467
- That sounds
like a really good idea.

987
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,834
♪ ♪

988
00:43:35,967 --> 00:43:37,367
- This is the part
that makes me nervous

989
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:38,667
but also gets me excited.

990
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,767
- Yes. I know what you mean.

991
00:43:41,900 --> 00:43:48,867
♪ ♪

992
00:43:51,633 --> 00:43:56,133
- Hello.
- Hi. How are you?

993
00:43:56,266 --> 00:43:57,367
- Hello.
- All right.

994
00:43:57,500 --> 00:43:59,767
- Hi!
- Hey. I'm Ben.

995
00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:01,233
- Matt.

996
00:44:01,367 --> 00:44:04,333
- Matt. Nice to meet you.
- Hi. I'm Denice.

997
00:44:04,467 --> 00:44:05,633
- Denice used to live here.

998
00:44:05,767 --> 00:44:06,900
Well, her grandfather
used to live here.

999
00:44:07,033 --> 00:44:08,734
- My grandfather
used to live here.

1000
00:44:08,867 --> 00:44:10,767
- Would you mind
if she walked me

1001
00:44:10,900 --> 00:44:12,266
through a little bit
of the property

1002
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,333
to show me where things were?

1003
00:44:14,467 --> 00:44:16,967
♪ ♪

1004
00:44:17,100 --> 00:44:19,700
Fishburne: The owner is
reluctant to let them enter,

1005
00:44:19,834 --> 00:44:21,967
and so for now,
it's impossible

1006
00:44:22,100 --> 00:44:24,133
to verify Parker's claim.

1007
00:44:24,266 --> 00:44:29,266
♪ ♪

1008
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,233
Coming up...

1009
00:44:30,367 --> 00:44:31,600
- Whatever they
hit is squished,

1010
00:44:31,734 --> 00:44:33,066
but all these are holes.

1011
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,333
Fishburne: This man claims
he has debris

1012
00:44:35,467 --> 00:44:37,066
from a UFO that crashed

1013
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,734
at nearly the same time
as Roswell

1014
00:44:39,867 --> 00:44:42,000
but 200 miles away.

1015
00:44:42,133 --> 00:44:46,066
♪ ♪

1016
00:44:49,867 --> 00:44:52,700
[dramatic mus]

1017
00:44:52,834 --> 00:44:59,700
♪ ♪

1018
00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:04,166
- I am in Southern New Mexico
on my way

1019
00:45:04,300 --> 00:45:07,600
to the home
of a guy named Chuck Wade.

1020
00:45:07,734 --> 00:45:10,367
Now, Chuck Wade claims to have
a piece of debris

1021
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:14,300
recovered from a potential
UFO crash site.

1022
00:45:14,433 --> 00:45:15,900
Fishburne: Ben Smith
couldn't get access

1023
00:45:16,033 --> 00:45:17,467
to Jesse Marcel's
former house

1024
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,100
to verify
whether it contained

1025
00:45:19,233 --> 00:45:21,333
Roswell crash debris.

1026
00:45:21,467 --> 00:45:23,533
Now Smith is following up
another lead

1027
00:45:23,667 --> 00:45:25,934
and meeting
with a man named Chuck Wade,

1028
00:45:26,066 --> 00:45:28,600
who is convinced
he has UFO debris

1029
00:45:28,734 --> 00:45:31,734
from a spacecraft
that crashed in 1947.

1030
00:45:31,867 --> 00:45:38,834
♪ ♪

1031
00:45:41,767 --> 00:45:44,066
- Hey. How you doing?
- Good. How are you, Chuck?

1032
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:45,834
- Come on in.

1033
00:45:45,967 --> 00:45:47,266
- Did your dad have

1034
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,400
a relationship
with Mac before that July?

1035
00:45:49,533 --> 00:45:51,166
- Oh, yeah.
- If you're the guy

1036
00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:53,967
that owns the bar,
everybody knows you.

1037
00:45:54,100 --> 00:45:55,166
- Yeah.
- Yeah.

1038
00:45:55,300 --> 00:45:59,300
Dad owned that bar
for many, many years,

1039
00:45:59,433 --> 00:46:03,667
and I just loved to be there
and listen to the stories.

1040
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,667
I was seven years old
the year

1041
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,000
that the Roswell incident
happened there next to Corona.

1042
00:46:10,133 --> 00:46:12,734
Fishburne: Chuck Wade's
father, Jesse Wade,

1043
00:46:12,867 --> 00:46:15,900
owned the bar in Corona
where rancher Mac Brazel

1044
00:46:16,033 --> 00:46:17,567
first came to show
his neighbors

1045
00:46:17,700 --> 00:46:21,000
the strange debris he'd found
while herding sheep.

1046
00:46:21,133 --> 00:46:23,667
Although it is known
as the Roswell incident,

1047
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,934
the small farming
community of Corona

1048
00:46:26,066 --> 00:46:30,066
was the closest to where
Mac found the debris.

1049
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,266
- Mac Brazel found something
that he doesn't know,

1050
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,734
and recognize at all
on the Foster Ranch,

1051
00:46:36,867 --> 00:46:39,934
so he came to Corona
and asked my father to go out

1052
00:46:40,066 --> 00:46:42,166
and see what in the world
it was,

1053
00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:45,066
'cause he--Mac just
flat didn't know.

1054
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,400
But my dad was busy, and it
was just himself in the bar,

1055
00:46:49,533 --> 00:46:53,066
so Dad chose
not to close the bar.

1056
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:57,934
Dad regretted that,
I'm going to say, immensely.

1057
00:46:58,066 --> 00:46:59,567
He'd always say,

1058
00:46:59,700 --> 00:47:02,066
"I wished I'd went with Mac
to see what was out there."

1059
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,433
- Right.

1060
00:47:04,567 --> 00:47:06,200
Fishburne:
Chuck Wade also wanted

1061
00:47:06,333 --> 00:47:08,667
to see what was out there.

1062
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,367
After running his own
construction company,

1063
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:14,100
Wade has devoted
most of the last 20 years

1064
00:47:14,233 --> 00:47:15,667
to researching UFOs.

1065
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,800
♪ ♪

1066
00:47:18,934 --> 00:47:22,233
- So tell me a little bit about
some of the sites and debris

1067
00:47:22,367 --> 00:47:24,500
that you recovered.

1068
00:47:24,633 --> 00:47:28,433
I think it could inform
my investigation of Roswell.

1069
00:47:28,567 --> 00:47:32,533
- Have y'all studied the crash
on the Plains of San Agustin?

1070
00:47:32,667 --> 00:47:34,166
- No.

1071
00:47:34,300 --> 00:47:36,567
Fishburne: Wade has come to
a startling conclusion:

1072
00:47:36,700 --> 00:47:40,600
Roswell was only one
of a series of UFO crashes

1073
00:47:40,734 --> 00:47:44,567
that took place in Southern
New Mexico during that time.

1074
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:48,967
According to Wade, there were
seven UFO crashes in total.

1075
00:47:49,100 --> 00:47:53,767
Five of them occurred during
the first week of July 1947.

1076
00:47:53,900 --> 00:47:58,633
- The first one here
was August 1945.

1077
00:47:58,767 --> 00:48:00,233
This one right here,
the night of the 1st

1078
00:48:00,367 --> 00:48:03,100
to the 2nd of July, 1947.

1079
00:48:03,233 --> 00:48:06,333
These three,
four, five and six

1080
00:48:06,467 --> 00:48:12,000
was about 11:00 on July
the 4th, 1947,

1081
00:48:12,133 --> 00:48:16,133
and this one up here
was in March 1948.

1082
00:48:16,266 --> 00:48:17,734
Fishburne:
Chuck Wade has a theory

1083
00:48:17,867 --> 00:48:20,467
about what caused
the spaceships to crash.

1084
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,000
- What happened, folks, is,

1085
00:48:23,133 --> 00:48:26,200
whenever they put in
Los Alamos National Laboratory,

1086
00:48:26,333 --> 00:48:30,800
they installed three major,
high-powered radars

1087
00:48:30,934 --> 00:48:33,467
to guard the skies
over Los Alamos.

1088
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,667
Fishburne: Wade, who
supervised construction

1089
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,000
of dozens of
air-traffic-control towers

1090
00:48:38,133 --> 00:48:41,700
across the U.S., believes
powerful radar signals

1091
00:48:41,834 --> 00:48:44,533
emitted from the Los Alamos
nuclear site

1092
00:48:44,667 --> 00:48:47,200
caused short circuits
in the spaceships.

1093
00:48:47,333 --> 00:48:50,767
- It electrified that craft,
and it came down in flames.

1094
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:55,800
♪ ♪

1095
00:48:55,934 --> 00:48:58,467
Fishburne: Of what he claims
are seven UFO crashes,

1096
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,200
Wade became obsessed
with one in particular,

1097
00:49:01,333 --> 00:49:04,700
which he believes crashed
on the Plains of San Agustin

1098
00:49:04,834 --> 00:49:08,300
48 hours
before the Roswell crash.

1099
00:49:08,433 --> 00:49:10,066
- New Mexico
is basically square.

1100
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:11,900
Corona is basically

1101
00:49:12,033 --> 00:49:14,767
really close
to the center of the state.

1102
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:18,200
What we call the Roswell
incident happened about

1103
00:49:18,333 --> 00:49:20,867
30 miles southeast of Corona.

1104
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,600
The Plains of San Agustin
is over here,

1105
00:49:23,734 --> 00:49:25,667
about 200 miles.

1106
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,266
♪ ♪

1107
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,166
- Chuck started going to
UFO conferences.

1108
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:33,200
One of the speakers
had discovered

1109
00:49:33,333 --> 00:49:34,600
some pieces of debris,

1110
00:49:34,734 --> 00:49:37,300
and he wanted to go
and look for more debris.

1111
00:49:37,433 --> 00:49:38,767
- Mm.
- Chuck said, well,

1112
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:40,266
he would
help him with that,

1113
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,600
and he'd get some guys
to come and help dig.

1114
00:49:43,734 --> 00:49:46,000
So they did.

1115
00:49:46,133 --> 00:49:49,367
That was in 2004.

1116
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:52,467
And they found some stuff.

1117
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,600
- I'd love to see it,
if I can.

1118
00:49:54,734 --> 00:49:58,467
- Well, I think it's right
around the corner here.

1119
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,266
Fishburne: The Wades have
several fragments.

1120
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:07,200
♪ ♪

1121
00:50:07,333 --> 00:50:10,066
- Can you tell me
what I'm looking at here?

1122
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:14,300
- These here is the foils.
- Mm-hmm.

1123
00:50:14,433 --> 00:50:16,333
- And then these
here have got --

1124
00:50:16,467 --> 00:50:20,033
Whatever they hit is squished,
but all these are holes.

1125
00:50:20,166 --> 00:50:22,433
- Actually, can I remove
the glass for a closer look?

1126
00:50:22,567 --> 00:50:23,900
- Sure, be glad to.

1127
00:50:24,033 --> 00:50:25,767
- And did you take this
to the government at all?

1128
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:27,900
- Not going to have any reason
to do that.

1129
00:50:28,033 --> 00:50:30,100
- Well, I'm just curious,
you know?

1130
00:50:30,233 --> 00:50:32,000
- No. I'm sure.
- If you find a UFO,

1131
00:50:32,133 --> 00:50:33,734
I don't know
what the government would say,

1132
00:50:33,867 --> 00:50:35,066
to be honest.

1133
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:36,500
- I believe they said
they didn't exist.

1134
00:50:36,633 --> 00:50:38,133
- That's true.

1135
00:50:38,266 --> 00:50:40,200
The official position is,
you know, they don't exist,

1136
00:50:40,333 --> 00:50:42,367
but things
are starting to change.

1137
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:44,367
- It's a good question, but no.

1138
00:50:44,500 --> 00:50:48,867
I avoid the government
as best as I possibly could.

1139
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,400
There is a huge, monstrous,
gigantic cover-up

1140
00:50:53,533 --> 00:50:54,900
on the Roswell incident.

1141
00:50:55,033 --> 00:50:57,934
No one in Corona was allowed--

1142
00:50:58,066 --> 00:51:03,000
they were ordered
not to talk about that crash.

1143
00:51:03,133 --> 00:51:07,000
- Yeah. There's a lot of
mistrust in the community

1144
00:51:07,133 --> 00:51:10,000
among UFO researchers
of the federal government.

1145
00:51:10,133 --> 00:51:11,266
I think a lot of it stems

1146
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:16,967
from the reaction
or overreaction in 1947.

1147
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:19,133
- They found something
on the Foster Ranch.

1148
00:51:19,266 --> 00:51:22,467
They didn't know what it was
or where it came from.

1149
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,800
I think Jesse Marcel
is telling the truth 100%.

1150
00:51:25,934 --> 00:51:30,133
I see no reason for him to do
other than tell the truth.

1151
00:51:30,266 --> 00:51:32,500
The Roswell incident
was from outer space,

1152
00:51:32,633 --> 00:51:33,834
and there's not a chance

1153
00:51:33,967 --> 00:51:35,600
it was a damn balloon
that we made.

1154
00:51:37,734 --> 00:51:40,700
- Now, this one is
pretty fascinating.

1155
00:51:40,834 --> 00:51:43,500
♪ ♪

1156
00:51:43,633 --> 00:51:47,133
Can I take a piece with me
to get it analyzed myself?

1157
00:51:47,266 --> 00:51:49,166
- What do you think?

1158
00:51:49,300 --> 00:51:51,300
I don't know.
It's okay with me.

1159
00:51:51,433 --> 00:51:53,033
- Do you mind if I take
this one here?

1160
00:51:53,166 --> 00:51:54,133
- Oh, sure. Sure.

1161
00:51:54,266 --> 00:51:55,934
- Yeah?
- We'd be glad to--

1162
00:51:56,066 --> 00:51:57,233
Any of them that you want,

1163
00:51:57,367 --> 00:52:00,500
we'll be glad
to take a piece off.

1164
00:52:00,633 --> 00:52:02,200
I want to know
where it came from.

1165
00:52:02,333 --> 00:52:05,200
Why is it here? Why don't they
tell us about it?

1166
00:52:05,333 --> 00:52:08,266
[saw whirring]

1167
00:52:10,133 --> 00:52:11,567
- That is pretty hard
to cut, actually.

1168
00:52:11,700 --> 00:52:13,266
- Yeah.
- It's, uh--

1169
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,400
Fishburne: Smith plans to get
this piece of metal tested

1170
00:52:15,533 --> 00:52:17,667
to see what elements
it's composed of

1171
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,367
and if there is anything
about it

1172
00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:21,734
that can suggest
where it came from.

1173
00:52:21,867 --> 00:52:26,400
♪ ♪

1174
00:52:26,533 --> 00:52:27,900
Coming up...

1175
00:52:28,033 --> 00:52:29,400
- How are you doing?
- Good. How are you?

1176
00:52:29,533 --> 00:52:31,734
Fishburne: Has this seasoned
crash investigator

1177
00:52:31,867 --> 00:52:34,200
found the clue
that everyone missed?

1178
00:52:34,333 --> 00:52:36,166
- There's something
under the ground there.

1179
00:52:36,300 --> 00:52:41,734
♪ ♪

1180
00:52:45,867 --> 00:52:48,734
[dramatic music]

1181
00:52:48,867 --> 00:52:55,700
♪ ♪

1182
00:52:55,834 --> 00:52:58,000
- I'm just outside Denver,
Colorado,

1183
00:52:58,133 --> 00:53:00,066
on my way
to meet David Soucie,

1184
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,367
our crash-site expert.

1185
00:53:02,500 --> 00:53:05,567
Fishburne: David Soucie is
a former accident inspector

1186
00:53:05,700 --> 00:53:08,533
for the Federal
Aviation Administration.

1187
00:53:08,667 --> 00:53:11,900
Soucie has investigated
hundreds of crash sites,

1188
00:53:12,033 --> 00:53:14,700
so when Ben Smith took him
to the debris field

1189
00:53:14,834 --> 00:53:17,133
where Jesse Marcel first saw
what he believed

1190
00:53:17,266 --> 00:53:19,567
to be pieces
of wrecked spacecraft,

1191
00:53:19,700 --> 00:53:24,100
Soucie started
by measuring wind currents.

1192
00:53:24,233 --> 00:53:25,934
Soucie's gut reaction:

1193
00:53:26,066 --> 00:53:28,533
whatever crashed here
wasn't lightweight.

1194
00:53:28,667 --> 00:53:31,100
This contradicts
the U.S. military's story

1195
00:53:31,233 --> 00:53:33,867
that what crashed at Roswell
was a weather balloon

1196
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,266
or part of the top-secret,

1197
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,200
lighter-than-air
Project Mogul.

1198
00:53:37,333 --> 00:53:40,800
- I'm not sure I buy that
whole balloon-drag theory.

1199
00:53:40,934 --> 00:53:43,367
- Really?

1200
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:47,867
David collected all kinds
of data from the debris field:

1201
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,734
wind, geographic features,
weather.

1202
00:53:51,867 --> 00:53:54,433
I'm hoping
that he can eliminate

1203
00:53:54,567 --> 00:53:57,400
one aircraft or another.

1204
00:53:57,533 --> 00:53:58,734
Fishburne:
Smith wants David Soucie

1205
00:53:58,867 --> 00:54:00,533
to compare
his initial finding

1206
00:54:00,667 --> 00:54:02,333
with the Deep Earth analysis

1207
00:54:02,467 --> 00:54:04,667
done by
Canadian geophysicists

1208
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,500
Colin Miazga and Eric Johnson

1209
00:54:07,633 --> 00:54:10,800
when they visited the debris
field late last year.

1210
00:54:13,467 --> 00:54:16,133
Soucie has been communicating
with them online.

1211
00:54:16,266 --> 00:54:17,300
- I understand you do

1212
00:54:17,433 --> 00:54:19,033
ground-penetrative
radar, as well.

1213
00:54:19,166 --> 00:54:20,800
- Yeah. Yeah.
- Okay.

1214
00:54:20,934 --> 00:54:23,633
Fishburne: The geophysicists
used ground-penetrating radar

1215
00:54:23,767 --> 00:54:25,266
and gamma-ray technology

1216
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,867
to identify strange anomalies
in the Earth...

1217
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,367
- Look at that.
- Wow. That is interesting.

1218
00:54:31,500 --> 00:54:33,800
Fishburne: A kind of scarring
that couldn't have come

1219
00:54:33,934 --> 00:54:35,834
from a deflated balloon
crash.

1220
00:54:35,967 --> 00:54:39,333
- So this is the radar.
- It doesn't make sense.

1221
00:54:39,467 --> 00:54:43,400
I can't understand
what that would be.

1222
00:54:43,533 --> 00:54:50,500
♪ ♪

1223
00:55:01,834 --> 00:55:03,266
- Hey, Ben.
- Hey, David.

1224
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:04,533
- How are you doing?
- Good. How are you?

1225
00:55:04,667 --> 00:55:05,900
- Yeah. Well, come on in.
- Oh, man.

1226
00:55:06,033 --> 00:55:08,900
I have been dying to see what
you've done with that data.

1227
00:55:09,033 --> 00:55:10,900
- Well, there's a lot
to look at, probably more

1228
00:55:11,033 --> 00:55:13,233
than you want to see.

1229
00:55:13,367 --> 00:55:14,867
The first thing
I want to start with:

1230
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,000
This is an overview of the
entire site, the entire area.

1231
00:55:18,133 --> 00:55:19,266
- Oh, wow.

1232
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,333
- That is the reported
trajectory.

1233
00:55:22,467 --> 00:55:24,533
That's where they
found the debris.

1234
00:55:24,667 --> 00:55:26,166
- Yeah.
- And then from there,

1235
00:55:26,300 --> 00:55:27,533
it spread, they said,

1236
00:55:27,667 --> 00:55:29,433
as much as a mile
in this direction off of that.

1237
00:55:29,567 --> 00:55:31,367
- Mm-hmm.

1238
00:55:31,500 --> 00:55:34,467
- A bunch of other interesting
stuff that we can get through,

1239
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,200
and now this is
what's really interesting.

1240
00:55:36,333 --> 00:55:39,433
This area really intrigues me
right down at the bottom here

1241
00:55:39,567 --> 00:55:41,266
because the gamma readings

1242
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,734
are not consistent with
the ground-penetrating radar.

1243
00:55:44,867 --> 00:55:46,367
♪ ♪

1244
00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:48,000
I've never seen that before.

1245
00:55:48,133 --> 00:55:49,700
- Huh.
- It doesn't make sense me.

1246
00:55:49,834 --> 00:55:51,600
- You might have to walk me
through the actual readings.

1247
00:55:51,734 --> 00:55:53,066
- All right.
- Because I'm having

1248
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,066
a hard time visualizing it.
- Yeah. Let's do that.

1249
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,700
These red areas indicate that
the ground-penetrating radar

1250
00:55:57,834 --> 00:56:00,333
says it's extremely dense,
which is where the rocks are.

1251
00:56:00,467 --> 00:56:01,734
- Yeah.
- And that sort of thing.

1252
00:56:01,867 --> 00:56:04,633
Here's an example
of a dense area,

1253
00:56:04,767 --> 00:56:06,433
and in this dense area,

1254
00:56:06,567 --> 00:56:10,266
you would expect to see low
gamma rays because it has --

1255
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,667
It's not coming through.
It's blocking the gamma.

1256
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:14,233
So let's look
at that spot here.

1257
00:56:14,367 --> 00:56:16,834
Gamma rays are indicated
by yellow or green,

1258
00:56:16,967 --> 00:56:19,867
and if there's less gamma,
it's blue, and sure enough,

1259
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,433
here's this light blue
where the rocks were.

1260
00:56:21,567 --> 00:56:22,600
- Yeah.
- And then here's

1261
00:56:22,734 --> 00:56:24,000
the same thing here.

1262
00:56:24,133 --> 00:56:25,800
- It almost matches perfectly
with the GPR.

1263
00:56:25,934 --> 00:56:27,166
- Yes. You could look at

1264
00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:28,700
any of these spots,
any of these blues here.

1265
00:56:28,834 --> 00:56:29,934
- Yep.
- And it aligns

1266
00:56:30,066 --> 00:56:31,700
with these reds here.
- Got it.

1267
00:56:31,834 --> 00:56:33,266
♪ ♪

1268
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:34,667
- This spot...

1269
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:36,133
♪ ♪

1270
00:56:36,266 --> 00:56:38,133
now that we're just a little
above the green line--

1271
00:56:38,266 --> 00:56:39,867
We were looking here before,
below the green line.

1272
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,133
- Right.

1273
00:56:41,266 --> 00:56:42,467
- But now above there,
that's red.

1274
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,100
Let's take a closer look
at it.

1275
00:56:44,233 --> 00:56:46,734
See all the red? All the red.
It's dense.

1276
00:56:46,867 --> 00:56:49,567
It's hard and solid,
which would block gamma.

1277
00:56:49,700 --> 00:56:51,133
- Uh-huh.

1278
00:56:51,266 --> 00:56:52,734
- So now I'm going to flip
this. I'm going to think,

1279
00:56:52,867 --> 00:56:54,533
well, we're going to find
a blue spot there.

1280
00:56:54,667 --> 00:56:57,066
But instead,
look what we find:

1281
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:58,667
the opposite of what
I would expect.

1282
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:00,266
- Right.
- And not only

1283
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,900
what I would expect, but what
we witnessed right here.

1284
00:57:03,033 --> 00:57:05,033
That was consistent
with tight compaction

1285
00:57:05,166 --> 00:57:06,300
and blocking the gammas.

1286
00:57:06,433 --> 00:57:09,433
- Yeah.
- But now it's yellow.

1287
00:57:09,567 --> 00:57:11,867
- The highest.
- Not only is it high,

1288
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,100
it is the highest right there.

1289
00:57:15,233 --> 00:57:17,633
♪ ♪

1290
00:57:17,767 --> 00:57:20,533
- It's something that--
It doesn't make sense to me.

1291
00:57:20,667 --> 00:57:23,033
- Have you ever seen that
in a wreck that you--

1292
00:57:23,166 --> 00:57:24,600
- No. No. I have not.

1293
00:57:24,734 --> 00:57:26,700
I've not seen this before.
There's something there.

1294
00:57:26,834 --> 00:57:29,800
There's something unique about
this spot above the green line.

1295
00:57:29,934 --> 00:57:31,066
As an accident investigator

1296
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,066
and what I've been doing
my entire life,

1297
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:34,834
there's something
under the ground there.

1298
00:57:34,967 --> 00:57:36,400
There's something
making these changes,

1299
00:57:36,533 --> 00:57:38,433
these readings different.

1300
00:57:38,567 --> 00:57:41,467
- So what could make
that kind of contrast,

1301
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:43,800
the high density
with high radiation?

1302
00:57:43,934 --> 00:57:45,033
- The only thing I can think of

1303
00:57:45,166 --> 00:57:47,133
is that
in ground-penetrating radar,

1304
00:57:47,266 --> 00:57:50,667
a rubber or polyethylene
and rubber...

1305
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,000
- Uh-huh.
- Can create that illusion

1306
00:57:53,133 --> 00:57:55,166
of high density.

1307
00:57:55,300 --> 00:57:57,967
But it would also allow gamma
to come up through it

1308
00:57:58,100 --> 00:58:01,033
because it's not going
to block the gamma rays.

1309
00:58:01,166 --> 00:58:02,934
Fishburne:
After analyzing the data,

1310
00:58:03,066 --> 00:58:06,033
David Soucie can no longer
rule out the possibility

1311
00:58:06,166 --> 00:58:09,900
that it was a Mogul balloon
that went down at Roswell.

1312
00:58:10,033 --> 00:58:11,600
- So, I mean, a Mogul balloon

1313
00:58:11,734 --> 00:58:13,367
was made of something
like neoprene.

1314
00:58:13,500 --> 00:58:16,200
- Exactly, so to me,
that explains it.

1315
00:58:16,333 --> 00:58:18,266
To me, that is what
I would be looking for.

1316
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:19,967
That's the assumption
I would make

1317
00:58:20,100 --> 00:58:22,166
and go out
and try to find that.

1318
00:58:22,300 --> 00:58:24,900
Fishburne: Soucie admits
that his analysis is just

1319
00:58:25,033 --> 00:58:26,867
an educated guess,

1320
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,800
and even that is based
on a 1995 government report

1321
00:58:30,934 --> 00:58:33,400
which provided
no physical evidence

1322
00:58:33,533 --> 00:58:38,767
but asserted that a Mogul
balloon crashed at Roswell,

1323
00:58:38,900 --> 00:58:40,400
a report millions
of Americans

1324
00:58:40,533 --> 00:58:42,233
still don't believe.

1325
00:58:42,367 --> 00:58:45,767
- [chanting] Hey, hey, UFOs,
people have the right to know!

1326
00:58:45,900 --> 00:58:48,266
- If this group of 100
demonstrators is correct,

1327
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,100
the U.S. government
is covering up

1328
00:58:50,233 --> 00:58:52,800
the most important secret
of all time:

1329
00:58:52,934 --> 00:58:58,266
alien beings who have made
contact with Earthlings.

1330
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,400
- They said, "Well, what
about the bodies?"

1331
00:59:00,533 --> 00:59:02,967
How could so many people
have come forward and say,

1332
00:59:03,100 --> 00:59:05,533
"Well, when I was a kid, I saw
this, and I saw these bodies,

1333
00:59:05,667 --> 00:59:07,767
"and I saw this stuff,
and some Air Force guys

1334
00:59:07,900 --> 00:59:09,834
came out and picked up stuff
in the desert."

1335
00:59:09,967 --> 00:59:12,633
How do we explain that?

1336
00:59:12,767 --> 00:59:15,467
Fishburne: At that infamous
1997 press conference,

1337
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,500
where the Air Force
doubled down on its claim

1338
00:59:17,633 --> 00:59:20,467
that what crashed at Roswell
was a Mogul balloon,

1339
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,066
it also issued
a remarkable second report

1340
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:27,333
that some believe undermined
its entire explanation.

1341
00:59:27,467 --> 00:59:29,000
♪ ♪

1342
00:59:29,133 --> 00:59:31,266
- We're confident
once the report is out

1343
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,100
and digested by the public,

1344
00:59:33,233 --> 00:59:36,533
that this will be the final
word on the Roswell incident.

1345
00:59:37,934 --> 00:59:39,066
Fishburne: This second report

1346
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:40,734
offered
what the Air Force hoped

1347
00:59:40,867 --> 00:59:44,100
was a logical explanation
to appease those Americans

1348
00:59:44,233 --> 00:59:45,767
who found
alleged eyewitness stories

1349
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:51,266
about aliens at Roswell both
believable and compelling.

1350
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,367
- Bodies observed
in the New Mexico desert

1351
00:59:53,500 --> 00:59:56,600
were probably test dummies
that were carried aloft

1352
00:59:56,734 --> 00:59:59,166
by U.S. Air Force
high-altitude balloons

1353
00:59:59,300 --> 01:00:00,633
for scientific research.

1354
01:00:02,867 --> 01:00:05,467
- Additional research
uncovered information

1355
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,834
which explained some of
the claims of alien bodies

1356
01:00:08,967 --> 01:00:12,266
associated with
the Roswell incident.

1357
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,433
Fishburne: The second report,
called "Case Solved,"

1358
01:00:15,567 --> 01:00:16,900
was accompanied
by a short film

1359
01:00:17,033 --> 01:00:18,333
produced by the Air Force.

1360
01:00:18,467 --> 01:00:20,000
♪ ♪

1361
01:00:20,133 --> 01:00:22,433
- The project's
main objective

1362
01:00:22,567 --> 01:00:24,000
was to study methods

1363
01:00:24,133 --> 01:00:27,033
for returning a pilot
or astronaut safely to Earth

1364
01:00:27,166 --> 01:00:29,700
by parachute
if forced to eject

1365
01:00:29,834 --> 01:00:32,433
at extremely high altitudes.

1366
01:00:32,567 --> 01:00:37,433
For these tests, dummies were
transported up to 98,000 feet

1367
01:00:37,567 --> 01:00:41,300
by high-altitude balloons.

1368
01:00:41,433 --> 01:00:42,633
Fishburne:
The Air Force contended

1369
01:00:42,767 --> 01:00:44,000
that anyone who thought
they'd seen

1370
01:00:44,133 --> 01:00:46,200
the military
recovering alien bodies

1371
01:00:46,333 --> 01:00:48,266
were actually witnessing
exercises

1372
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,133
that involved dropping
anthropomorphic dummies

1373
01:00:51,266 --> 01:00:52,867
from high-altitude balloons.

1374
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,800
♪ ♪

1375
01:00:54,934 --> 01:00:57,533
- Many of the dummies landed
outside the confines

1376
01:00:57,667 --> 01:00:59,133
of military reservation

1377
01:00:59,266 --> 01:01:03,233
and were regularly observed
by local civilians.

1378
01:01:03,367 --> 01:01:06,533
Critical examination
of alleged alien sightings

1379
01:01:06,667 --> 01:01:09,100
consistently match
the physical characteristics

1380
01:01:09,233 --> 01:01:10,533
of these dummies,

1381
01:01:10,667 --> 01:01:13,233
as well as where
and how they were used.

1382
01:01:13,367 --> 01:01:15,333
♪ ♪

1383
01:01:15,467 --> 01:01:18,600
- I think it's logical to
assume that the people there

1384
01:01:18,734 --> 01:01:22,100
saw Air Force ambulances
come out.

1385
01:01:22,233 --> 01:01:23,433
They saw gurneys come out.

1386
01:01:23,567 --> 01:01:24,900
They saw body bags come out

1387
01:01:25,033 --> 01:01:26,367
because the dummies were put
into body bags

1388
01:01:26,500 --> 01:01:29,033
to protect them, and when you
put all that stuff

1389
01:01:29,166 --> 01:01:30,166
together and spin it,

1390
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:31,734
you'll find that
it fits perfectly

1391
01:01:31,867 --> 01:01:35,467
with many of the occurrences
in Roswell during that era.

1392
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:40,000
♪ ♪

1393
01:01:40,133 --> 01:01:41,433
Fishburne:
At the press conference,

1394
01:01:41,567 --> 01:01:43,567
the problem with the
Air Force's explanation

1395
01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:45,700
was obvious to reporters.

1396
01:01:45,834 --> 01:01:50,000
Its dummy-drop exercises
didn't take place in 1947.

1397
01:01:50,133 --> 01:01:53,200
They only started
in the early 1950s.

1398
01:01:53,333 --> 01:01:55,934
- They're talking about 1947,
but you're talking

1399
01:01:56,066 --> 01:01:59,867
about dummies used in the
'50s, almost a decade later.

1400
01:02:00,066 --> 01:02:02,133
- Well, I'm afraid
that's the problem

1401
01:02:02,266 --> 01:02:04,900
that we have
with time compression.

1402
01:02:05,033 --> 01:02:06,600
I don't know what they saw
in '47,

1403
01:02:06,734 --> 01:02:10,567
but I'm quite sure
it probably was Project Mogul.

1404
01:02:10,700 --> 01:02:12,967
Fishburne: UFO author and
researcher Don Schmitt

1405
01:02:13,100 --> 01:02:15,667
believes the Air Force
was disrespectful,

1406
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,467
writing off
alleged eyewitnesses

1407
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,600
as having aging
and faulty memories.

1408
01:02:20,734 --> 01:02:23,500
- "Oh, it's time compression."

1409
01:02:23,633 --> 01:02:27,233
New malady, not even
in the medical books,

1410
01:02:27,367 --> 01:02:29,266
created by the Pentagon.

1411
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,900
"The older you get, you start
to not only compress the years

1412
01:02:33,033 --> 01:02:36,633
but also the decades."
But the problem with that:

1413
01:02:36,767 --> 01:02:39,633
All the personnel
who were here in '47,

1414
01:02:39,767 --> 01:02:42,767
who were involved
were no longer here in '52,

1415
01:02:42,900 --> 01:02:46,533
so how could they be mistaking
wooden crash dummies in '52

1416
01:02:46,667 --> 01:02:48,166
if they weren't even here?

1417
01:02:48,300 --> 01:02:50,300
- Colonel, let me just go back
one more time.

1418
01:02:50,433 --> 01:02:52,000
You say that this is
case closed,

1419
01:02:52,133 --> 01:02:53,233
and people
should now believe it,

1420
01:02:53,367 --> 01:02:55,100
but with the major hole,
though:

1421
01:02:55,233 --> 01:02:57,400
You're saying that they're
wrong about the date.

1422
01:02:57,533 --> 01:02:59,300
What explanation
can you give them

1423
01:02:59,433 --> 01:03:00,967
other than just saying,

1424
01:03:01,100 --> 01:03:04,000
"Well, we just think they're
just mistaken by six years?"

1425
01:03:04,133 --> 01:03:05,633
- I have no other explanation.

1426
01:03:05,767 --> 01:03:07,467
I'm sorry. I just--
I have no other explanation.

1427
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,533
I'm looking at the facts
as we have studied them,

1428
01:03:10,667 --> 01:03:11,867
and I have no other explanation

1429
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,066
of that
but what I've already given.

1430
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:14,300
- But how--
- Yes, sir?

1431
01:03:14,433 --> 01:03:15,900
- Would that
make it case closed?

1432
01:03:16,033 --> 01:03:19,000
- Because we've reviewed
all the relevant information,

1433
01:03:19,133 --> 01:03:21,333
and we have finished this, and
we're not going to revisit it.

1434
01:03:21,467 --> 01:03:23,400
- How do you know
that you're not being used?

1435
01:03:23,533 --> 01:03:25,667
How do you know
that you know the full story?

1436
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,266
[laughter]

1437
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,734
You're confident that
you're not part of any cover-up

1438
01:03:29,867 --> 01:03:31,867
wittingly or unwittingly.

1439
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,600
- I'm totally confident,
but I think Colonel Weaver--

1440
01:03:34,734 --> 01:03:37,266
you might have seen him
on TV earlier--said it best.

1441
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:39,700
We can't even
keep single secrets.

1442
01:03:39,834 --> 01:03:42,467
How could we have a conspiracy
or a cover-up?

1443
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:43,834
- Well, it happened in 1953.

1444
01:03:43,967 --> 01:03:47,400
How could anybody mess
that up from 1947?

1445
01:03:47,533 --> 01:03:49,533
People's memories
fade over time.

1446
01:03:49,667 --> 01:03:51,967
- We think that this answers
lots of questions,

1447
01:03:52,100 --> 01:03:55,033
and it answers them
logically and with integrity.

1448
01:03:55,166 --> 01:04:01,767
♪ ♪

1449
01:04:01,900 --> 01:04:06,033
Fishburne: Coming up, closing
in on who wrote the journal.

1450
01:04:06,166 --> 01:04:09,633
Could it be this man,
a highly decorated war hero?

1451
01:04:09,767 --> 01:04:11,633
- There are some words
and letter combinations

1452
01:04:11,767 --> 01:04:14,667
I do see in agreement.
There is potential.

1453
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:18,567
♪ ♪

1454
01:04:22,433 --> 01:04:25,266
[dramatic music]

1455
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:32,066
♪ ♪

1456
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,100
- I'm excited to hear
about your findings.

1457
01:04:35,233 --> 01:04:39,266
- So there are two styles
of uppercase Ws

1458
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:42,633
that I noticed in the journal.

1459
01:04:42,767 --> 01:04:45,433
Fishburne: Ben Smith is with
forensic handwriting expert

1460
01:04:45,567 --> 01:04:49,000
Jennifer Naso, who has been
analyzing writing samples

1461
01:04:49,133 --> 01:04:52,700
from some of the officers
in the 509th bomber group.

1462
01:04:52,834 --> 01:04:55,133
She is checking to see
if they could've written

1463
01:04:55,266 --> 01:04:58,033
the puzzling journal that
belonged to their colleague,

1464
01:04:58,166 --> 01:05:00,967
Jesse Marcel.

1465
01:05:01,100 --> 01:05:02,600
Colonel William Blanchard,

1466
01:05:02,734 --> 01:05:04,700
commander
of the Roswell Air Base,

1467
01:05:04,834 --> 01:05:06,166
would certainly
have known

1468
01:05:06,300 --> 01:05:09,967
about any top secret
operation in his sector.

1469
01:05:10,100 --> 01:05:13,333
- When we look at
the Blanchard,

1470
01:05:13,467 --> 01:05:15,934
there are some
dissimilarities,

1471
01:05:16,066 --> 01:05:19,133
but it's really not
a whole lot to go on.

1472
01:05:19,266 --> 01:05:21,233
- So your professional judgment
would be,

1473
01:05:21,367 --> 01:05:24,867
there's not enough data yet to
confirm one way or the other.

1474
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:26,667
- Right. There would be
no conclusion

1475
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,100
as to whether or not
he authored the journal

1476
01:05:29,233 --> 01:05:31,667
based on just the one
signature that we have.

1477
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:33,033
- Right.

1478
01:05:33,166 --> 01:05:35,000
- So in the Walter Haut
handwriting,

1479
01:05:35,133 --> 01:05:36,600
I noticed that's
what we would call

1480
01:05:36,734 --> 01:05:39,600
a combination style
of writing.

1481
01:05:39,734 --> 01:05:41,066
Fishburne:
Lieutenant Walter Haut

1482
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:44,066
was the public information
officer for the 509th,

1483
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,133
who was ordered
by Colonel Blanchard

1484
01:05:46,266 --> 01:05:48,200
to draft that famous
press release

1485
01:05:48,333 --> 01:05:50,567
that a flying disc
had been recovered.

1486
01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:53,900
- Where it's not all cursive,
it's all not hand-printing,

1487
01:05:54,033 --> 01:05:58,000
so some letters have connecting
strokes while others do not.

1488
01:05:58,133 --> 01:06:00,300
Right away, that's a difference
between what I see

1489
01:06:00,433 --> 01:06:03,567
in the all-cursive
writing of the journal,

1490
01:06:03,700 --> 01:06:06,934
so here is the word "and"
in the journal.

1491
01:06:07,066 --> 01:06:08,767
See the formation of the A--
- Yeah.

1492
01:06:08,900 --> 01:06:12,433
- How it starts up
around 2:00

1493
01:06:12,567 --> 01:06:15,633
and then comes counterclockwise
and forms this other loop.

1494
01:06:15,767 --> 01:06:20,500
When we look at the "and" in
the Walter Haut handwriting--

1495
01:06:20,633 --> 01:06:25,233
- Oh, totally different.
So already, I get the sense

1496
01:06:25,367 --> 01:06:28,166
that this journal
was not written by Walter Haut.

1497
01:06:28,300 --> 01:06:32,133
- The characteristics
that I'm noting thus far

1498
01:06:32,266 --> 01:06:35,066
are not similar to what
I'm seeing in the journal.

1499
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:36,734
- Yeah.

1500
01:06:36,867 --> 01:06:39,400
- The next sample would be

1501
01:06:39,533 --> 01:06:40,967
Robert Shirkey.
- Yeah.

1502
01:06:41,100 --> 01:06:42,400
Fishburne:
Lieutenant Robert Shirkey

1503
01:06:42,533 --> 01:06:45,734
was assistant operations
officer for the 509th.

1504
01:06:45,867 --> 01:06:48,900
He also said Jesse Marcel
was telling the truth

1505
01:06:49,033 --> 01:06:52,600
and claimed he'd seen
debris flown out of Roswell

1506
01:06:52,734 --> 01:06:56,100
and believed it was
extraterrestrial.

1507
01:06:56,233 --> 01:06:57,734
- So here we have
the word "July"...

1508
01:06:57,867 --> 01:07:00,533
- Mm-hmm.
- In the journal,

1509
01:07:00,667 --> 01:07:03,967
and just note the formation
of the uppercase J.

1510
01:07:04,100 --> 01:07:05,333
- Uh-huh.

1511
01:07:05,467 --> 01:07:08,800
- Here in the word "July,"
look at the formation

1512
01:07:08,934 --> 01:07:11,567
of the J compared
to the known writing...

1513
01:07:11,700 --> 01:07:13,834
- Mm-hmm.
- And the questioned.

1514
01:07:13,967 --> 01:07:17,834
- So already, again, I see a
deliberate contrast in strokes

1515
01:07:17,967 --> 01:07:22,800
that they start to pop as
different handwriting styles.

1516
01:07:22,934 --> 01:07:26,633
- And what we're looking for
is a pattern of writing,

1517
01:07:26,767 --> 01:07:30,166
and when Easley
creates this drag stroke--

1518
01:07:30,300 --> 01:07:32,533
- "Being," yeah.
- "Being," it's a long,

1519
01:07:32,667 --> 01:07:35,800
exaggerated drag stroke.

1520
01:07:35,934 --> 01:07:37,100
Fishburne:
Major Edwin Easley

1521
01:07:37,233 --> 01:07:39,000
was in charge
of base security.

1522
01:07:39,133 --> 01:07:41,700
He would've been responsible
for safeguarding the debris

1523
01:07:41,834 --> 01:07:44,367
and controlling which
personnel had access to it.

1524
01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:46,467
♪ ♪

1525
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,300
- And you see that again.
You see that repeated

1526
01:07:48,433 --> 01:07:51,433
throughout the known writing,
whereas in the journal,

1527
01:07:51,567 --> 01:07:55,800
you just have the I-dot
above the letter,

1528
01:07:55,934 --> 01:07:58,033
so you do have
some dissimilarities

1529
01:07:58,166 --> 01:08:00,266
in this writing sample,
as well.

1530
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:04,133
- Shoot. Well, that leaves us
Patrick Saunders.

1531
01:08:04,266 --> 01:08:06,100
Fishburne: Patrick Saunders
was Colonel Blanchard's

1532
01:08:06,233 --> 01:08:09,367
number two,
his top deputy.

1533
01:08:09,500 --> 01:08:11,266
He would've been in the room
when Jesse Marcel

1534
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:12,900
returned from
the debris field

1535
01:08:13,033 --> 01:08:16,066
to brief the commander.

1536
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,266
- There are some words
and letter combinations

1537
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:20,200
I do see in agreement,

1538
01:08:20,333 --> 01:08:22,033
so one of the words in common
between the question

1539
01:08:22,166 --> 01:08:24,233
and the known
is the word "anything."

1540
01:08:24,367 --> 01:08:27,200
And if you look at the
writing in the journal...

1541
01:08:27,333 --> 01:08:28,633
- Right.
- There is a pen lift

1542
01:08:28,767 --> 01:08:31,700
after the Y,
in between the Y and the T,

1543
01:08:31,834 --> 01:08:33,867
and you see that again here.

1544
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,767
- Right.
- The Y terminates and then--

1545
01:08:36,900 --> 01:08:39,800
- That's pretty distinctive.
- The same thing here,

1546
01:08:39,934 --> 01:08:42,200
and in the known writing--
- Wow!

1547
01:08:42,333 --> 01:08:44,633
- We do see that
combination, as well,

1548
01:08:44,767 --> 01:08:46,934
where that pen lifts
between the Y and the T.

1549
01:08:47,066 --> 01:08:48,266
- Yeah.
- I would describe that

1550
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:50,066
as more of
a general characteristic.

1551
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:51,967
- Okay.
- But right now,

1552
01:08:52,100 --> 01:08:53,600
it is a similarity.
- Huh.

1553
01:08:53,734 --> 01:08:55,567
♪ ♪

1554
01:08:55,700 --> 01:08:57,734
- Also, when you look
at the letter formations,

1555
01:08:57,867 --> 01:09:02,900
the termination of the Y
in all three "anythings"

1556
01:09:03,033 --> 01:09:04,867
in the journal
terminates downward.

1557
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,967
There is no upward-move
formation.

1558
01:09:08,100 --> 01:09:10,467
It terminates downward.

1559
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,633
If you look at the height
ratios between the T and the H,

1560
01:09:13,767 --> 01:09:17,000
here you see the H
is much taller than the T,

1561
01:09:17,133 --> 01:09:18,800
and you see that
throughout the questions.

1562
01:09:18,934 --> 01:09:21,367
The H and the T,

1563
01:09:21,500 --> 01:09:23,600
and you also see that the H
in the known's

1564
01:09:23,734 --> 01:09:27,700
is also taller than the T.
- Okay.

1565
01:09:27,834 --> 01:09:29,967
- So do you see enough
then to exclude this

1566
01:09:30,100 --> 01:09:34,000
as a candidate,
or is it still a viable option?

1567
01:09:34,133 --> 01:09:38,066
- I don't see enough right now
to exclude this person

1568
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:39,467
as a candidate.

1569
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:41,300
Of all the samples,

1570
01:09:41,433 --> 01:09:45,133
with the Pat Saunders one,
there's potential.

1571
01:09:45,266 --> 01:09:48,000
- This man is at the nexus
of all the secrets.

1572
01:09:48,133 --> 01:09:50,667
Because Patrick Saunders
would've touched

1573
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,633
every document,
overhead every phone call,

1574
01:09:53,767 --> 01:09:56,233
would've seen everything
Colonel Blanchard's seen,

1575
01:09:56,367 --> 01:09:59,033
and if he is the author
of the journal,

1576
01:09:59,166 --> 01:10:00,834
then I really think
we're onto something.

1577
01:10:00,967 --> 01:10:03,667
♪ ♪

1578
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:05,333
Fishburne: Coming up,

1579
01:10:05,467 --> 01:10:08,033
did Patrick Saunders
organize a cover-up?

1580
01:10:08,166 --> 01:10:11,433
- He just mentioned that
he changed the serial numbers,

1581
01:10:11,567 --> 01:10:13,867
and he destroyed
files about it.

1582
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:15,600
- Really?

1583
01:10:15,734 --> 01:10:17,700
Fishburne: What did he tell
his family about Roswell?

1584
01:10:17,834 --> 01:10:19,166
- Do you think he was
protecting you

1585
01:10:19,300 --> 01:10:22,834
from the secrets that he knew?
- Absolutely.

1586
01:10:22,967 --> 01:10:27,100
♪ ♪

1587
01:10:30,467 --> 01:10:33,333
tic music]

1588
01:10:33,467 --> 01:10:37,934
♪ ♪

1589
01:10:38,066 --> 01:10:39,967
Fishburne: He was the base
commander's number two,

1590
01:10:40,100 --> 01:10:41,667
his right-hand man,

1591
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,900
but who is Patrick Saunders?

1592
01:10:45,033 --> 01:10:47,467
What was his role
in the Roswell incident?

1593
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,767
What did he believe?
And if he wrote the journal

1594
01:10:50,900 --> 01:10:53,900
Jesse Marcel
kept close for decades,

1595
01:10:54,033 --> 01:10:57,467
what secrets did
the two men share?

1596
01:10:57,600 --> 01:10:58,900
Investigator Ben Smith

1597
01:10:59,033 --> 01:11:02,867
has tracked down two of
Saunders' five children.

1598
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:04,900
- So you were three years old
in 1947,

1599
01:11:05,033 --> 01:11:07,200
and you were living
in Roswell at the time?

1600
01:11:07,333 --> 01:11:11,467
- Yes. We were living
in Roswell on base.

1601
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,367
- On base?
- Yes.

1602
01:11:13,500 --> 01:11:17,900
We lived there
until about 1950.

1603
01:11:18,033 --> 01:11:19,400
♪ ♪

1604
01:11:19,533 --> 01:11:22,700
- And can you tell me a
little bit about your father?

1605
01:11:22,834 --> 01:11:26,700
- Well, my dad
was a very proud officer.

1606
01:11:26,834 --> 01:11:32,533
He was a very personable man,
and while he could be serious,

1607
01:11:32,667 --> 01:11:36,166
he could also be lots of fun
to be with.

1608
01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:37,934
- Can you tell me
a little bit about his role

1609
01:11:38,066 --> 01:11:40,300
at Roswell
Army Air Force Base?

1610
01:11:40,433 --> 01:11:44,834
- He was in charge
of assigning the troops

1611
01:11:44,967 --> 01:11:49,967
to the cleanup effort
at the crash site.

1612
01:11:50,100 --> 01:11:51,834
- He was involved
in the first meeting

1613
01:11:51,967 --> 01:11:57,133
they had after the crash
with Colonel Blanchard.

1614
01:11:57,266 --> 01:11:59,500
- And what was your reaction
when you first found out

1615
01:11:59,633 --> 01:12:01,266
about your dad's role

1616
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:05,934
at the Roswell Army
Air Force Base at this time?

1617
01:12:06,066 --> 01:12:10,100
- You know, I wasn't
even born when it happened.

1618
01:12:10,233 --> 01:12:14,066
Years later, I hear my
sisters asking him questions

1619
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:15,633
and things like that,

1620
01:12:15,767 --> 01:12:19,433
but I just thought everybody's
dad was cool like that.

1621
01:12:19,567 --> 01:12:22,567
[both laugh]

1622
01:12:23,767 --> 01:12:25,266
♪ ♪

1623
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,233
- Do you know if he ever saw
or handled the debris

1624
01:12:28,367 --> 01:12:30,400
or any intelligence
reports

1625
01:12:30,533 --> 01:12:33,066
about descriptions
of the debris?

1626
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:37,767
- He said he knew it wasn't
a weather balloon.

1627
01:12:37,900 --> 01:12:39,100
- So your father said

1628
01:12:39,233 --> 01:12:40,800
it was definitely
not a weather balloon?

1629
01:12:40,934 --> 01:12:43,600
- Absolutely. That's one of
the things I remember him

1630
01:12:43,734 --> 01:12:45,867
telling me more than once

1631
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:47,633
and that he knew
about weather balloons

1632
01:12:47,767 --> 01:12:52,433
because he dealt with them
with spying over Russia.

1633
01:12:52,567 --> 01:12:56,000
He did tell me that
the debris helped to develop

1634
01:12:56,133 --> 01:12:58,266
the stealth jet fighter

1635
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,166
and that there was
a similarity

1636
01:13:00,300 --> 01:13:01,600
between the jet fighter

1637
01:13:01,734 --> 01:13:04,600
and the thing
that crashed at Roswell.

1638
01:13:04,734 --> 01:13:06,166
- That is fascinating.

1639
01:13:06,300 --> 01:13:08,967
♪ ♪

1640
01:13:09,100 --> 01:13:10,333
Fishburne:
Patrick Saunders' daughter

1641
01:13:10,467 --> 01:13:12,567
says her father gave her
a well-known book

1642
01:13:12,700 --> 01:13:14,934
about the Roswell incident

1643
01:13:15,066 --> 01:13:17,467
and wrote comments
in the margins.

1644
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:19,867
- He wrote down page numbers,

1645
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:21,800
and then he
highlighted sentences

1646
01:13:21,934 --> 01:13:25,266
that he thought
were very important.

1647
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:29,567
On page 142, he highlighted,
"Patrick Saunders was a major

1648
01:13:29,700 --> 01:13:31,734
"and assigned
as the base adjutant.

1649
01:13:31,867 --> 01:13:35,166
"His job would've required
him accomplish paperwork

1650
01:13:35,300 --> 01:13:37,667
"surrounding the assigning
of the troops

1651
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:39,633
to clean up the debris."

1652
01:13:39,767 --> 01:13:40,834
- Did he ever share any names

1653
01:13:40,967 --> 01:13:42,600
about
who might have cleaned it up?

1654
01:13:42,734 --> 01:13:46,967
- No. He just mentioned that
he changed the serial numbers,

1655
01:13:47,100 --> 01:13:52,200
and he changed files
or destroyed files about it.

1656
01:13:52,333 --> 01:13:54,333
- Really?
- Mm-hmm.

1657
01:13:54,467 --> 01:13:57,800
- So your father, in some ways,
was involved then

1658
01:13:57,934 --> 01:13:59,400
with the cover-up--
- Yes.

1659
01:13:59,533 --> 01:14:01,200
- And changing the serial
numbers of the soldiers--

1660
01:14:01,333 --> 01:14:03,166
- Of the men who cleaned
up the debris.

1661
01:14:03,300 --> 01:14:06,500
- Wow. And he also
destroyed files.

1662
01:14:06,633 --> 01:14:08,767
- Mm-hmm.
- Huh.

1663
01:14:08,900 --> 01:14:10,600
- Or changed them.

1664
01:14:10,734 --> 01:14:13,500
♪ ♪

1665
01:14:13,633 --> 01:14:17,300
- A key figure to the whole
question: Jesse Marcel Sr.

1666
01:14:17,433 --> 01:14:18,767
did confirm there was
a cover-up,

1667
01:14:18,900 --> 01:14:20,700
that he was not holding
the actual debris

1668
01:14:20,834 --> 01:14:23,967
in the original press photo.

1669
01:14:24,100 --> 01:14:26,667
- Yes. He was concerned
about Major Marcel

1670
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:28,900
and the things
that he was saying.

1671
01:14:29,033 --> 01:14:31,467
He didn't say
he shouldn't have said them.

1672
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:33,834
He just showed--

1673
01:14:33,967 --> 01:14:37,100
voiced concern about talking
about these things.

1674
01:14:37,233 --> 01:14:39,667
♪ ♪

1675
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,066
- You know,
Jesse Marcel

1676
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,200
seemed
a little bit distraught

1677
01:14:44,333 --> 01:14:46,400
by the fact that he had to
retain this secret

1678
01:14:46,533 --> 01:14:49,867
and lie to the public
for the good of his country,

1679
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:51,400
what he believed
was important

1680
01:14:51,533 --> 01:14:53,166
to national security.

1681
01:14:53,300 --> 01:14:56,433
Did you ever get a sense that
your father was disturbed

1682
01:14:56,567 --> 01:14:58,400
by the official
government line

1683
01:14:58,533 --> 01:15:01,567
about what was
recovered there?

1684
01:15:01,700 --> 01:15:03,367
- I think it was hard for him

1685
01:15:03,500 --> 01:15:06,900
to keep the secrets
that he knew.

1686
01:15:07,033 --> 01:15:09,433
Even if other people
were talking about them

1687
01:15:09,567 --> 01:15:11,533
and writing books about it,

1688
01:15:11,667 --> 01:15:14,500
I think
he struggled with that.

1689
01:15:14,633 --> 01:15:19,867
- He took his role as
officer in the Air Force

1690
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,233
and ensuring national
security--

1691
01:15:22,367 --> 01:15:24,033
he took that very seriously.

1692
01:15:24,166 --> 01:15:25,767
♪ ♪

1693
01:15:25,900 --> 01:15:29,166
So, yeah,
he did what he had to do

1694
01:15:29,300 --> 01:15:35,166
and was instructed to do
and made no apologies.

1695
01:15:35,300 --> 01:15:38,400
♪ ♪

1696
01:15:38,533 --> 01:15:41,100
- You know, we were warned
not to talk about Roswell

1697
01:15:41,233 --> 01:15:44,100
outside the family,

1698
01:15:44,233 --> 01:15:48,767
and we generally
didn't talk about it.

1699
01:15:48,900 --> 01:15:50,567
This is the first time

1700
01:15:50,700 --> 01:15:54,967
I've really talked to people
about what he said.

1701
01:15:55,100 --> 01:15:57,133
- Some of the threats
that others have described

1702
01:15:57,266 --> 01:15:59,300
were pretty intimidating,

1703
01:15:59,433 --> 01:16:01,033
right,
threats to your career,

1704
01:16:01,166 --> 01:16:02,633
threats to your safety,

1705
01:16:02,767 --> 01:16:04,934
threats to your legacy
and perhaps even--

1706
01:16:05,066 --> 01:16:10,333
- Your entire family, your
entire family was at risk.

1707
01:16:10,467 --> 01:16:12,133
- So do you think he was
protecting you

1708
01:16:12,266 --> 01:16:15,166
from the secrets that he knew?

1709
01:16:15,300 --> 01:16:16,633
- Absolutely.

1710
01:16:16,767 --> 01:16:18,900
♪ ♪

1711
01:16:19,033 --> 01:16:21,967
- He said that the world
wasn't ready to know the truth

1712
01:16:22,100 --> 01:16:24,633
about what happened at Roswell,

1713
01:16:24,767 --> 01:16:27,700
and I asked him what he meant
by that, and he said,

1714
01:16:27,834 --> 01:16:31,967
"Well, it would cause
social upheaval and problems."

1715
01:16:32,100 --> 01:16:33,700
- Why?
- They weren't sure

1716
01:16:33,834 --> 01:16:38,767
whether the beings
were friendly or not.

1717
01:16:38,900 --> 01:16:40,533
Fishburne:
By the term "beings,"

1718
01:16:40,667 --> 01:16:41,967
she said she
understood her dad

1719
01:16:42,100 --> 01:16:44,500
was referring
to extraterrestrials,

1720
01:16:44,633 --> 01:16:47,033
the aliens who had
sent the spaceship

1721
01:16:47,166 --> 01:16:50,000
that crashed
at Roswell to Earth.

1722
01:16:50,133 --> 01:16:51,533
- Knowing your dad,

1723
01:16:51,667 --> 01:16:56,500
what do you think happened
at Roswell in 1947?

1724
01:16:56,633 --> 01:17:01,834
- Knowing my dad, if it was
nothing or a weather balloon,

1725
01:17:01,967 --> 01:17:06,800
he would've just said what it
was, and let's move on.

1726
01:17:06,934 --> 01:17:08,867
- Do you feel like
he had answers

1727
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:11,333
to who these
possible beings were,

1728
01:17:11,467 --> 01:17:14,367
where they came from
and what they wanted?

1729
01:17:14,500 --> 01:17:17,266
- I think he was full
of questions about them.

1730
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:19,266
♪ ♪

1731
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:22,233
I don't think he had come up
with all the answers

1732
01:17:22,367 --> 01:17:25,000
about what
they found at Roswell.

1733
01:17:25,133 --> 01:17:30,567
♪ ♪

1734
01:17:30,700 --> 01:17:34,066
Fishburne: Coming up, how
close has Ben Smith come

1735
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:35,600
to unlocking the secrets

1736
01:17:35,734 --> 01:17:38,200
of what really happened
at Roswell?

1737
01:17:38,333 --> 01:17:45,800
♪ ♪

1738
01:17:45,934 --> 01:17:48,800
[dramatic music]

1739
01:17:48,934 --> 01:17:55,900
♪ ♪

1740
01:17:57,467 --> 01:17:59,567
- I think a guy by the name
of Patrick Saunders

1741
01:17:59,700 --> 01:18:00,767
could've written
this journal.

1742
01:18:00,900 --> 01:18:02,266
- Wow.
- That actually got me

1743
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:04,166
pretty excited.
- That is interesting

1744
01:18:04,300 --> 01:18:05,934
because
it's a whole new person

1745
01:18:06,066 --> 01:18:07,734
to take a very close look at.

1746
01:18:07,867 --> 01:18:10,300
That opens up a whole other
sort of avenue, doesn't it?

1747
01:18:10,433 --> 01:18:11,934
- It really does.

1748
01:18:12,066 --> 01:18:12,967
Fishburne:
The real possibility

1749
01:18:13,100 --> 01:18:14,567
that one of Jesse Marcel's

1750
01:18:14,700 --> 01:18:17,633
fellow officers in the 509th,
Patrick Saunders,

1751
01:18:17,767 --> 01:18:20,800
wrote the journal that was
in Marcel's possession

1752
01:18:20,934 --> 01:18:24,834
is an incredible twist
in Ben Smith's investigation

1753
01:18:24,967 --> 01:18:26,967
of what happened at Roswell.

1754
01:18:27,100 --> 01:18:29,800
Now Smith wants to go
over the results

1755
01:18:29,934 --> 01:18:32,567
of his investigation
with Joe Pappalardo,

1756
01:18:32,700 --> 01:18:34,033
the veteran
aviation journalist

1757
01:18:34,166 --> 01:18:36,967
he has been consulting
with from the start.

1758
01:18:37,100 --> 01:18:39,433
- No explanation is going
to be complete

1759
01:18:39,567 --> 01:18:41,734
without a physical component,
probably.

1760
01:18:41,867 --> 01:18:43,433
Please tell me
you found a spaceship.

1761
01:18:43,567 --> 01:18:45,433
- Oh, dude,
I wish I could tell you

1762
01:18:45,567 --> 01:18:47,400
that I came back
with the smoking gun

1763
01:18:47,533 --> 01:18:49,600
to prove that it's definitely
a Mogul balloon

1764
01:18:49,734 --> 01:18:53,100
or it's definitely
an extraterrestrial spacecraft.

1765
01:18:53,233 --> 01:18:55,934
I haven't found anything
definitive either way,

1766
01:18:56,066 --> 01:18:58,333
and that is frustrating.

1767
01:18:58,467 --> 01:19:00,400
- Well, if it was easy,
it would be cracked by now,

1768
01:19:00,533 --> 01:19:04,700
so I'm eager to hear what
you actually have uncovered.

1769
01:19:04,834 --> 01:19:06,333
- Chuck Wade claimed that
he had a piece

1770
01:19:06,467 --> 01:19:08,467
of alien spacecraft.

1771
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:11,567
The lab unfortunately
could not find anything

1772
01:19:11,700 --> 01:19:13,533
extraterrestrial
about the metal.

1773
01:19:13,667 --> 01:19:15,066
For me,
it doesn't really impact

1774
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:16,500
the Roswell question
either way.

1775
01:19:16,633 --> 01:19:18,633
It was collected on
the Plains of San Agustin

1776
01:19:18,767 --> 01:19:21,533
some distance away,
except that it's a knock

1777
01:19:21,667 --> 01:19:25,066
against the established
evidence of ufologists.

1778
01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:27,033
- So in terms of the probable
crash site,

1779
01:19:27,166 --> 01:19:29,967
I knew you were gonna bring
some pretty cool technology

1780
01:19:30,100 --> 01:19:31,433
to investigate that.

1781
01:19:31,567 --> 01:19:32,767
Did you find anything
that would lead you

1782
01:19:32,900 --> 01:19:34,500
to think that something
happened there?

1783
01:19:34,633 --> 01:19:36,834
- We found a pretty strange
magnetic signature

1784
01:19:36,967 --> 01:19:38,400
close to
what would've been described

1785
01:19:38,533 --> 01:19:40,967
as the impact identified
by witness accounts.

1786
01:19:41,100 --> 01:19:45,300
We took some soil samples,
but we couldn't actually find

1787
01:19:45,433 --> 01:19:48,467
when or why
this anomaly was created.

1788
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:51,867
We haven't found any evidence
that definitively proves

1789
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:54,000
something extraterrestrial
crashed here.

1790
01:19:54,133 --> 01:19:56,800
- Did you find anything
that would indicate

1791
01:19:56,934 --> 01:19:58,500
that something else crashed?

1792
01:19:58,633 --> 01:20:01,400
- To the south of the
established debris field,

1793
01:20:01,533 --> 01:20:03,367
the FAA
crash-site investigator

1794
01:20:03,500 --> 01:20:06,433
found a strange contrast
in data,

1795
01:20:06,567 --> 01:20:08,166
that we don't know
what it means.

1796
01:20:08,300 --> 01:20:09,834
It's not metal because
our magnetometer

1797
01:20:09,967 --> 01:20:12,133
didn't pick up any metal.

1798
01:20:12,266 --> 01:20:13,600
There might be something

1799
01:20:13,734 --> 01:20:16,900
that could be some kind
of plastic or neoprene layer.

1800
01:20:17,033 --> 01:20:20,133
- That would buttress
that argument

1801
01:20:20,266 --> 01:20:21,467
that a balloon crashed there,

1802
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:23,500
and here is an actual
physical remain from it.

1803
01:20:23,633 --> 01:20:25,834
That would be about
as close to a smoking gun

1804
01:20:25,967 --> 01:20:27,533
as something who doesn't
believe in UFOs,

1805
01:20:27,667 --> 01:20:30,367
like myself, would cling
to desperately, probably.

1806
01:20:30,500 --> 01:20:34,633
- Yeah. Well, a lot of the
facts are fuzzy still,

1807
01:20:34,767 --> 01:20:38,000
and I'm still trying to piece
the puzzle together,

1808
01:20:38,133 --> 01:20:40,133
but I feel confident
that the government lied

1809
01:20:40,266 --> 01:20:41,467
to the American people

1810
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:43,533
about what it collected
at that debris field.

1811
01:20:43,667 --> 01:20:47,667
There were others like Jesse
in that unit at the 509th group

1812
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:49,266
who had some of the same ideas.

1813
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:52,700
I've spent a lot of time now
with the Marcel family,

1814
01:20:52,834 --> 01:20:54,266
and I think at the very least,

1815
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:56,233
what they wanted
was vindication.

1816
01:20:56,367 --> 01:20:58,166
♪ ♪

1817
01:20:58,300 --> 01:21:00,066
Fishburne: Jesse Marcel's
three grandchildren

1818
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:02,400
have been eagerly
awaiting the results

1819
01:21:02,533 --> 01:21:04,033
of Ben Smith's investigation

1820
01:21:04,166 --> 01:21:06,533
and want to know
what he has found out

1821
01:21:06,667 --> 01:21:08,934
about the strange journal.

1822
01:21:09,066 --> 01:21:10,367
- Thank you, guys,
for making

1823
01:21:10,500 --> 01:21:12,300
yourselves
available to chat with me.

1824
01:21:12,433 --> 01:21:13,700
I wanted to circle back
with you

1825
01:21:13,834 --> 01:21:16,066
and share some interesting
turns in the case

1826
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:18,767
and some unexpected surprises.

1827
01:21:18,900 --> 01:21:20,367
There's one thing
that's still missing

1828
01:21:20,500 --> 01:21:22,266
from this investigation,
and that's evidence.

1829
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:25,233
- I mean, there's a piece
out there somewhere.

1830
01:21:25,367 --> 01:21:26,633
- Well, we didn't
find anything yet.

1831
01:21:26,767 --> 01:21:27,967
- Sure.
- Jesse, you were there

1832
01:21:28,100 --> 01:21:29,166
with me in Pennsylvania

1833
01:21:29,300 --> 01:21:31,400
when we went
to the codebreaker.

1834
01:21:31,533 --> 01:21:34,533
Without the key,
the other half of the puzzle,

1835
01:21:34,667 --> 01:21:36,867
we can't crack
that home-brew code,

1836
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:41,734
so what's left is to keep
looking for that other half,

1837
01:21:41,867 --> 01:21:44,300
but that makes
an interesting challenge

1838
01:21:44,433 --> 01:21:47,400
because we didn't know
who wrote it.

1839
01:21:47,533 --> 01:21:50,400
I refocused my efforts back
on the inner circle

1840
01:21:50,533 --> 01:21:53,300
at the 509th group
to see if I could identify

1841
01:21:53,433 --> 01:21:55,834
who might have
written the journal.

1842
01:21:55,967 --> 01:21:58,400
I collected a few more
handwriting samples.

1843
01:21:58,533 --> 01:22:02,500
There was one individual
who actually,

1844
01:22:02,633 --> 01:22:04,934
with the short sample
that we had,

1845
01:22:05,066 --> 01:22:08,467
matched to some degree
that we couldn't rule it out.

1846
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:10,467
- Ooh, interesting.

1847
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:14,533
- This would've been the base
adjutant at the 509th group--

1848
01:22:14,667 --> 01:22:17,266
- Okay.
- The second-in-command,

1849
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:18,767
a guy named Patrick Saunders.

1850
01:22:18,900 --> 01:22:21,266
He was really close
with Colonel Blanchard,

1851
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:22,967
so close, in fact,

1852
01:22:23,100 --> 01:22:26,000
that Colonel Blanchard was
his best man at his wedding.

1853
01:22:26,133 --> 01:22:27,834
- Oh, wow.

1854
01:22:27,967 --> 01:22:29,500
- For me as an
intelligence officer,

1855
01:22:29,633 --> 01:22:32,400
if I'm looking for somebody
with access to information,

1856
01:22:32,533 --> 01:22:34,100
this guy
is as close as it gets.

1857
01:22:34,233 --> 01:22:36,500
- Wow.
- That's very exciting.

1858
01:22:38,834 --> 01:22:41,867
- Did your grandfather ever
mention that name to you?

1859
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,333
- I don't recall that name
coming from him.

1860
01:22:44,467 --> 01:22:47,133
- Obviously, they had
a relationship for Grandpa

1861
01:22:47,266 --> 01:22:49,600
to have ended up
with that journal.

1862
01:22:49,734 --> 01:22:53,333
- I was able to track down
his children.

1863
01:22:53,467 --> 01:22:55,000
A lot of the things
Patrick Saunders

1864
01:22:55,133 --> 01:22:58,667
told his children matched
what Jesse Sr.

1865
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:03,033
told you three, that it was
something not of this world.

1866
01:23:03,166 --> 01:23:06,367
And there was a cover-up.
- No kidding.

1867
01:23:06,500 --> 01:23:09,200
- And he even mentioned that
he was directly responsible

1868
01:23:09,333 --> 01:23:14,500
for organizing the cover-up
by changing the names

1869
01:23:14,633 --> 01:23:16,066
and the personnel records
of people

1870
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:18,467
involved in the cleanup effort
at the debris field.

1871
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:20,000
- Oh, my gosh.

1872
01:23:20,133 --> 01:23:22,066
- Another echo in Patrick
Saunders' story with his family

1873
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:26,033
is he said almost the exact
same things verbatim:

1874
01:23:26,166 --> 01:23:28,667
"The world isn't ready
for this kind of information."

1875
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:29,900
- Oh, yeah.

1876
01:23:30,033 --> 01:23:31,900
- And, Denice, you were
with me in Houma.

1877
01:23:32,033 --> 01:23:33,500
Your cousin mentioned
the same thing.

1878
01:23:33,633 --> 01:23:37,734
- Yep, exact same words.
- His eyes kind of glazed over,

1879
01:23:37,867 --> 01:23:39,200
and he said,

1880
01:23:39,333 --> 01:23:42,166
"There are things that
this world is not ready for."

1881
01:23:42,300 --> 01:23:45,667
- I wonder if they discussed
it to come up with almost,

1882
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:48,000
like, the same terminology.

1883
01:23:48,133 --> 01:23:50,867
This is just so completely
amazing. [laughs]

1884
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:52,400
- I think you're closer
to the truth

1885
01:23:52,533 --> 01:23:54,934
now than we've ever been
or anybody's ever been.

1886
01:23:55,066 --> 01:23:56,400
- Sounds like it.

1887
01:23:56,533 --> 01:23:59,834
- Another interesting comment
Patrick Saunders made

1888
01:23:59,967 --> 01:24:02,800
was actually about Jesse Sr.

1889
01:24:02,934 --> 01:24:05,934
He thought that Jesse
had gone too far,

1890
01:24:06,066 --> 01:24:07,500
that he had said
something he shouldn't.

1891
01:24:07,633 --> 01:24:09,166
He had told
the public too much.

1892
01:24:09,300 --> 01:24:11,834
- When Grandpa came out
in 1978

1893
01:24:11,967 --> 01:24:13,867
and told the story
about what had happened,

1894
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:16,633
I wonder if that worried him
a little bit

1895
01:24:16,767 --> 01:24:18,066
because I know
it would worry me

1896
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:19,567
if I was trying
to keep something covered up,

1897
01:24:19,700 --> 01:24:21,567
and this man just came out
and said,

1898
01:24:21,700 --> 01:24:24,600
"No. What everybody saw
wasn't something from here."

1899
01:24:24,734 --> 01:24:26,300
- Yeah. The duty to keep quiet

1900
01:24:26,433 --> 01:24:27,967
is a pretty powerful
commitment.

1901
01:24:28,100 --> 01:24:30,333
- I think he was courageous
for coming out and telling it

1902
01:24:30,467 --> 01:24:32,600
because he was going
against the protocol.

1903
01:24:32,734 --> 01:24:34,233
He felt that
everybody deserved

1904
01:24:34,367 --> 01:24:35,900
to know what the truth was

1905
01:24:36,033 --> 01:24:38,400
and that the cover-up
needed to end.

1906
01:24:38,533 --> 01:24:39,700
- Mm-hmm.

1907
01:24:39,834 --> 01:24:42,533
♪ ♪

1908
01:24:42,667 --> 01:24:44,734
You know, we started
this journey together

1909
01:24:44,867 --> 01:24:47,500
trying to figure out
the journal

1910
01:24:47,633 --> 01:24:49,100
and to prove with evidence

1911
01:24:49,233 --> 01:24:51,133
that your grandfather
was telling the truth.

1912
01:24:51,266 --> 01:24:54,767
Now, we didn't quite get
to either of those ends.

1913
01:24:54,900 --> 01:24:56,667
How do you feel about
this investigation,

1914
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:59,233
and what does it tell you
about your grandfather?

1915
01:24:59,367 --> 01:25:01,400
- If anything, you've added

1916
01:25:01,533 --> 01:25:03,800
more credibility
to those stories,

1917
01:25:03,934 --> 01:25:06,233
and I think we're
getting closer than ever

1918
01:25:06,367 --> 01:25:08,166
to resolving this.

1919
01:25:08,300 --> 01:25:09,533
- I'll just echo that.

1920
01:25:09,667 --> 01:25:13,867
I think that everything
that you've come across

1921
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:17,066
has actually more or less
confirmed for me

1922
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:20,333
that Grandpa and our dad
were telling us the truth

1923
01:25:20,467 --> 01:25:22,000
and that they did want
everybody to know

1924
01:25:22,133 --> 01:25:23,900
what really did happen.

1925
01:25:24,033 --> 01:25:26,133
- I looked at the journal
recently, and I found a quote

1926
01:25:26,266 --> 01:25:28,400
that really captures
sort of the investigation,

1927
01:25:28,533 --> 01:25:29,834
and the quote was,

1928
01:25:29,967 --> 01:25:32,667
"Keep your eye on the doughnut
and not the hole."

1929
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:35,600
If we just focus
on the lack of evidence,

1930
01:25:35,734 --> 01:25:38,133
the hole in the center,

1931
01:25:38,266 --> 01:25:41,600
we miss all the evidence
that we have found.

1932
01:25:41,734 --> 01:25:47,033
I think that this journal
has more secrets to give,

1933
01:25:47,166 --> 01:25:51,800
more evidence to point me to
than what I've found so far,

1934
01:25:51,934 --> 01:25:54,934
and I'm reluctant
to simply put it away.

1935
01:25:55,066 --> 01:26:00,633
♪ ♪

1936
01:26:00,767 --> 01:26:02,200
Fishburne:
To some, Jesse Marcel

1937
01:26:02,333 --> 01:26:05,000
is a courageous truth sayer.

1938
01:26:05,133 --> 01:26:07,767
To others, a man
who let his imagination

1939
01:26:07,900 --> 01:26:09,834
get the best of him.

1940
01:26:09,967 --> 01:26:11,934
Either way, he believed

1941
01:26:12,066 --> 01:26:15,433
he'd witnessed
an extraordinary event,

1942
01:26:15,567 --> 01:26:17,667
and he was not alone.

1943
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:19,767
I'm Laurence Fishburne,

1944
01:26:19,900 --> 01:26:24,433
thank you for watching
"History's Greatest Mysteries".