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ANNOUNCER: This program is
rated 14+, and contains
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scenes of violence and
mature subject matter.
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Viewer discretion is advised.
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[Hobbs] At about
9:35 p.m.,
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we received a radio call.
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A child was believed
to have been abducted.
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It ended badly.
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[Chapman]
This person, this phantom,
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has come
and taken a child
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and done
something horrific to them,
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and we don't know
who they are.
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You would have
some very good leads.
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This guy is a good suspect.
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He lived in the neighborhood.
They knew the family.
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We got his DNA.
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That was submitted to
the forensic science people.
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They had criminal records
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of sexual assault
and kidnapping.
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[Luxford] And the results,
when it come back,
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there was no match.
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[Chapman] We eliminated
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at least 50
to 60 people by DNA.
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It was dead end
after dead end after dead end.
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They never forgot.
That was the thing.
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They never forgot
that little girl.
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[intense music playing]
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Welcome to Crime Beat.
I'm Antony Robart.
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Tonight, it was a community
known for its unlocked doors
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and kids playing in the streets
until all hours.
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But the calm of
one warm spring evening
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in 1971 is shattered
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with the feared abduction
of a six-year-old girl,
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an unprecedented event
that forever changed the city.
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Here now is
"A Million Dead Ends".
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[heartfelt music playing]
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[Hobbs]
Windsor, Ontario is a,
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at that time, a city
of about 200,000 people.
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It's a border city because
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it sits right on
the Detroit River.
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It's a working-class city.
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The automotive industry at
the time was very large.
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[Chapman]
We're the Motor City of Canada.
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We had the Big Three
here for many years.
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There's a lot of factories
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that support
what the Big Three do.
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And because of
the amount of employment
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that the Big Three
were offering,
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it was a big immigration point
in the city.
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So you get this influx
of people
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from all sorts of
different backgrounds
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working blue-collar jobs,
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coming to Canada to make
a better life for themselves.
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It was not unlike
a lot of other places
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in-- in the country.
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But where we're located
made it a dead end in Ontario,
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so it was a transient
type of city, you know?
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And things filtered in,
but to filter out,
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they had to go back
the same way.
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It's not a city that
they stopped in
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on the way somewhere else.
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It was a quiet town,
you know,
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very little action going on,
you know.
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I think-- back then,
I think our murder rate
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was, like,
one or two a year, if that.
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Low crime, you know.
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Very nice, peaceful city.
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[Hobbs]
May the 14th, 1971.
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We were working
the afternoon shift
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in the Drouillard Road area.
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Drouillard Road, it's kind of
east-central Windsor.
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It's coming up now,
but it was always kind of a--
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kind of a rough
and tumble neighbourhood,
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back-- even back then,
known as Ford City.
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This area that I worked
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it's-- at the time
was called Number 8 District.
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It still looks the same
as it ever did.
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There were a lot
of hotels, bars.
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This used to be one here.
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The type of calls
that we would get down here,
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bar fights,
drinking complaints,
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assaults, car accidents.
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It was kind of
the run-of-the-mill.
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In May of 1971,
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my partner and I
were working in a patrol car
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in the Drouillard Road area.
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It wasn't
a really busy evening.
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At about 9:35 p.m.,
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we received a radio call
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to attend an address
on Drouillard Road
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where a child was believed
to have been abducted.
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I had only been on the police
force for five years,
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so for the number of calls
that I had taken,
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it was--
it was an unusual call.
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We were
a little bit away,
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a few minutes
getting down here.
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1290 was a little house
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on the right-hand side
down here.
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That is no longer there,
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but it was just right here
at this corner.
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[indicator clicking]
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When we got
to the address,
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we went to the--
went to the door.
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We were met
by the mother,
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who was--
who was frantic.
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Mrs. Topic,
first name was Paula,
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explained that her daughter,
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who was six years old,
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and her brother,
who was eight,
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were playing
in the backyard
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when they were approached
by a strange man.
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The stranger...
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offered the little girl $8
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if she would walk with him down
Drouillard Road a little bit,
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and he gave
her brother a dime...
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and the little girl
left with the man.
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The brother went
right into the house.
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He went straight
into the house
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and told his mother
what had happened.
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Paula's there
with her friend,
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and he explains
that he sees them
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walking towards Seminole Road
on Drouillard Road.
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I'm not sure how quickly
he went into the house
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at the time
to relay that information,
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and then that's
when Paula and her friend
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go looking for Ljubica.
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[Hobbs] She was described
as six years of age,
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approximately four feet tall,
blonde hair,
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wearing a pink blouse...
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and green
and yellow slacks.
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The mother
was visibly upset,
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so we-- we knew that we had
to treat this very gently,
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but we also knew
that it was quite serious,
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we had to get
something going.
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Real quickly,
we checked the house,
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made sure that
the little girl wasn't there,
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hadn't come back.
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She wasn't there.
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The mother
couldn't tell us anything
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about the person that
walked away with the daughter,
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because she didn't see him.
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So everything that we did get
came from the boy.
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Although,
because of his age,
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it was difficult
to really get a lot,
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but the person was described
as a male, white,
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early 20s, tall and slim,
wearing dark clothing.
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When we left the house,
I-- I said to my partner,
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I said,
"You know, if we don't--
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if we don't find
this little girl in an hour,
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we have a big problem."
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We got a hold of
our radio dispatcher,
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and gave
a description of the child
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and the man
that was with her,
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and had more cars
sent to the area
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to start looking for her.
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[suspenseful music playing]
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The night she went missing,
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it was like the largest manhunt
in Windsor history.
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Like, hundreds of people,
volunteers, police,
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scoured the streets together,
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looking in alleys
and streets and parks.
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[Chapman]
Looking back in time,
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you need
some historical context.
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So 1971,
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we still had call boxes
in the city of Windsor.
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So communications
to police from dispatch
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were drastically different.
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So they get to
the Topic residence
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around nine o'clock.
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Sometime prior
to that, Michael,
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Ljubica's older brother,
had come in and said
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that somebody
had offered him a dime
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and promised to pay Ljubica
some money to come do a job.
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There's a separation there.
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How much of a delay
before police response
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gets into the area, right?
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And it's no fault of--
of anybody's.
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It's 1971.
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Child abduction wasn't a thing.
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So Paula's first thing that
she does with her friend
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is she takes a walk down
to Seminole Street,
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which is about
a half kilometer away,
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and then comes back
and then calls the police.
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[Hobbs] We attended
the residence at 9:35,
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so the call would have been
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just a few minutes
earlier than that.
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The little girl was last seen
at approximately nine o'clock.
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By 9:50,
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we had a description
of both the little girl
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and the abductor that
we put out on the radio.
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And then you have
the whole dispatch procedure
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where it's not instantaneous
to your computer in your car.
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It's a more
tedious process,
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and then officers
start to get to the area.
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It floods in fast.
A lot of officers do.
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Even citizens start
to come in and help,
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what they called
house-to-house checks.
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We're looking for this girl.
We're trying to find her.
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[Hobbs] We went up
and down alleys, streets,
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right in that immediate area,
looking for this duo.
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We had lots of eyes
on the road.
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There would have been
at least five district cars,
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units from
the downtown precinct,
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and we also had
detective cars.
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There was a lot of
people there.
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At midnight,
one of the lieutenants
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arranged
a proper grid search,
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and my partner and I
ended up being sent
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to the Essex
Terminal Railroad,
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and it was open for people
to walk down that way,
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so it was quite common
to see people taking shortcuts
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going down the tracks.
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A lot of the people involved
were fathers,
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00:09:06,266 --> 00:09:09,767
and there was an urgency for us
to try and find her.
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00:09:09,934 --> 00:09:16,934
♪
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Welcome back.
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00:09:23,934 --> 00:09:26,400
On May 14, 1971,
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little Ljubica Topic
is out playing
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with her brother
and some friends
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when a stranger lures her away
just after 9:00 p.m.
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A massive search begins.
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00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:40,767
Hundreds of police
and citizens scour the streets.
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Eventually, they find her,
four hours later.
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We now return
to "A Million Dead Ends".
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[sombre music playing]
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[Chapman] So at one o'clock
in the morning,
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00:09:55,033 --> 00:09:56,533
Saturday, May 15th,
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Tom Fortier
is looking through the alleys
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in the 1600 block
of Hickory,
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and he shines his light into
the rear yard of 1690,
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and I remember
what he described to me.
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00:10:08,867 --> 00:10:10,000
Tom said
he shined the light in,
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and he saw what he thought
was a large doll
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lying on the ground.
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00:10:14,567 --> 00:10:17,367
And unfortunately,
that large doll was Ljubica.
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♪
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He was taken aback.
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You-- you think it's a doll,
and then as you get closer,
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00:10:27,667 --> 00:10:29,967
you-- you realize that no,
this is not a doll.
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00:10:30,133 --> 00:10:33,934
This is the six-year-old girl
that we've been looking for,
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and she's been
very badly injured,
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severely beaten,
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00:10:39,266 --> 00:10:42,066
like a very high level
of violence and aggression.
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It was evident on scene
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that this was
a sexually motivated crime.
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She was sexually assaulted.
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00:10:47,567 --> 00:10:49,600
Part of her clothes
were removed,
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and ultimately
the cause of death
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was asphyxiation.
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The distance that she was from
where she was taken
250
00:11:00,934 --> 00:11:02,533
was about one kilometer,
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00:11:02,700 --> 00:11:05,200
and the time from when
it was called into the police
252
00:11:05,367 --> 00:11:07,433
to the time that
she was located was four hours.
253
00:11:10,233 --> 00:11:12,567
[engine humming]
254
00:11:12,734 --> 00:11:15,367
[Hobbs]
At 1:20 a.m., on the 15th,
255
00:11:15,533 --> 00:11:18,500
we were picked up
at the railroad tracks
256
00:11:18,667 --> 00:11:22,200
and taken to
a location on Hickory Road
257
00:11:22,367 --> 00:11:25,700
and learned that the little
girl had been found deceased
258
00:11:25,867 --> 00:11:29,166
in the backyard
off of the alley.
259
00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:31,467
It was dark.
260
00:11:31,633 --> 00:11:34,133
Lighting in the area
where she was found
261
00:11:34,300 --> 00:11:35,533
wasn't the best.
262
00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:38,033
The streets have got lights,
but the alleys don't.
263
00:11:38,834 --> 00:11:40,367
There were a lot
of officers there,
264
00:11:40,533 --> 00:11:42,767
a lot of plainclothes
detectives were there,
265
00:11:42,934 --> 00:11:45,934
and there was
a cameraman there.
266
00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:47,834
There was
an ident unit there.
267
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,066
[McMillan] When looking at
the crime scene photographs,
268
00:11:50,233 --> 00:11:52,333
a lot of them were blurry,
269
00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:54,000
and the old policeman
told me
270
00:11:54,166 --> 00:11:57,800
that the forensic officer
that took the pictures
271
00:11:57,967 --> 00:12:00,900
had a huge family,
had 12 kids,
272
00:12:01,066 --> 00:12:03,400
and he was so affected
by the scene
273
00:12:03,567 --> 00:12:05,166
that his hands were shaking.
274
00:12:05,867 --> 00:12:09,900
So you can imagine
what the scene looked like.
275
00:12:10,066 --> 00:12:13,233
We drove back to the precinct.
It was pretty quiet.
276
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,533
Being a young father
at that time myself,
277
00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:17,567
it-- it kind of
struck home.
278
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,033
We felt that we had done
everything we could.
279
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,166
We had got our own officers out
as quick as we could,
280
00:12:25,333 --> 00:12:26,633
but unfortunately...
281
00:12:27,633 --> 00:12:28,800
it ended badly.
282
00:12:31,166 --> 00:12:33,200
[road din]
283
00:12:35,667 --> 00:12:36,867
[Chapman] Right now
we're standing at the corner
284
00:12:37,033 --> 00:12:38,800
of Drouillard Road
and Franklin.
285
00:12:38,967 --> 00:12:40,033
Drouillard runs this way,
286
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,767
and Franklin,
if you look down that way,
287
00:12:41,934 --> 00:12:44,667
you can see what's left
of the-- the old Ford foundry,
288
00:12:44,834 --> 00:12:46,734
which was one of
the biggest employers
289
00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:48,667
in the area
in the 1970s.
290
00:12:48,834 --> 00:12:50,100
The Topic family's house
291
00:12:50,266 --> 00:12:52,367
was basically right
in this area here.
292
00:12:52,533 --> 00:12:54,100
I believe
it was the second one in.
293
00:12:54,266 --> 00:12:55,967
The scrapyard was around
in the '70s.
294
00:12:56,133 --> 00:12:58,533
It was Pazner Scrapyard,
but it's expanded now,
295
00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:01,600
and-- and their house
was torn down some time ago.
296
00:13:01,767 --> 00:13:02,734
There was an employee
that worked
297
00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:04,333
at the gate
at the Ford foundry,
298
00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:05,467
and he remembers
299
00:13:05,633 --> 00:13:06,600
looking through
the window of his office
300
00:13:06,767 --> 00:13:07,734
and seeing somebody,
301
00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:09,800
a male dressed in black,
302
00:13:09,967 --> 00:13:13,033
crouched down across the street
outside the cafe,
303
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,333
and he was looking towards
where the kids were playing.
304
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:19,367
He was described around 20
or early 20s or so.
305
00:13:20,333 --> 00:13:22,867
The next two,
three, four days, a week,
306
00:13:23,033 --> 00:13:25,200
we were-- we were all
looking for a tall, slim guy
307
00:13:25,367 --> 00:13:27,600
that wore dark clothing.
308
00:13:27,767 --> 00:13:30,533
It seemed like everybody
was tall, dark, white male
309
00:13:30,700 --> 00:13:32,166
and wearing dark clothing.
310
00:13:32,333 --> 00:13:36,033
The description was not odd,
put it that way.
311
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,166
It was very close to
a lot of people,
312
00:13:40,333 --> 00:13:42,333
and so we were jumping
on anything we could,
313
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:46,400
because we wanted to get
this taken care of and solved.
314
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:48,834
We have had many calls
come in this weekend,
315
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,166
and as a matter of fact,
we have interviewed
316
00:13:51,333 --> 00:13:53,867
as many as 38 people
as of yesterday.
317
00:13:54,033 --> 00:13:56,500
Any time that we came across
anyone like that,
318
00:13:56,667 --> 00:14:01,333
even kind of remotely
looked like it might be,
319
00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:05,433
we would talk to them,
get their information,
320
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,700
and submit it to
the investigating detectives.
321
00:14:08,867 --> 00:14:13,133
That happened quite a bit
over the next days and weeks...
322
00:14:14,367 --> 00:14:17,200
but it seemed like
it came to a dead end.
323
00:14:19,166 --> 00:14:20,633
[McMillan]
We'd written stories over time,
324
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,967
just updates, you know,
325
00:14:23,133 --> 00:14:25,633
police still looking
for the killer,
326
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,033
we want tips,
you know, there's rewards.
327
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,433
I think very quickly,
in like 1971,
328
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,567
there was, like,
an $11,000 reward,
329
00:14:34,734 --> 00:14:37,066
which was huge
at the time, right?
330
00:14:37,233 --> 00:14:38,433
[Chapman]
Our best witness is Michael.
331
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:39,934
The information
that he provided
332
00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:42,133
is the information
that seemed to be the genesis
333
00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:45,000
of a suspect
or person of interest profile.
334
00:14:45,166 --> 00:14:47,433
In a very early composite,
it was done by a person
335
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,400
I don't think
had any forensic training
336
00:14:49,567 --> 00:14:51,200
when it comes
to creating composites,
337
00:14:51,367 --> 00:14:52,700
but he sat down with Michael
338
00:14:52,867 --> 00:14:55,000
and they drew up
a simple sketch.
339
00:14:55,166 --> 00:14:57,033
It didn't have
a ton of detail to it.
340
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,033
A white male
with a thin face,
341
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,333
there's suggestions
of potentially light brown
342
00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:02,700
to straw blonde hair,
343
00:15:02,867 --> 00:15:05,800
but steps taken in the 1970s
out of desperation,
344
00:15:05,967 --> 00:15:07,166
like we need
to find this person,
345
00:15:07,333 --> 00:15:10,000
like they recognized the need
to find this person.
346
00:15:10,166 --> 00:15:12,100
You're trying
to get a description
347
00:15:12,266 --> 00:15:14,433
out of an eight-year-old boy
who's your best witness,
348
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,000
presenting them
lineups of people
349
00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:18,900
who looks like
the person.
350
00:15:19,066 --> 00:15:21,400
And I feel bad
for Michael because of
351
00:15:21,567 --> 00:15:24,567
how much
he was put through with this,
352
00:15:24,734 --> 00:15:26,800
paraded through
so many lineups.
353
00:15:26,967 --> 00:15:28,667
Just please
show us somebody
354
00:15:28,834 --> 00:15:30,700
who looked like the person
who-- who took your sister.
355
00:15:30,867 --> 00:15:32,300
I can't imagine
the amount of trauma
356
00:15:32,467 --> 00:15:33,633
that poor boy
went through
357
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,800
trying to identify
the person responsible.
358
00:15:36,967 --> 00:15:38,100
I can't imagine.
359
00:15:38,266 --> 00:15:40,133
There was very limited
other information.
360
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:43,867
We uncovered a report
where there was a neighbour,
361
00:15:44,033 --> 00:15:45,400
said she observed Ljubica
362
00:15:45,567 --> 00:15:48,200
walking with an individual
a few blocks away,
363
00:15:48,367 --> 00:15:49,767
like, in between
where she was abducted
364
00:15:49,934 --> 00:15:51,300
and where she was found.
365
00:15:51,467 --> 00:15:53,600
Not a whole lot of information
was gleaned from that.
366
00:15:53,767 --> 00:15:55,367
There were kids that
were playing in the area,
367
00:15:55,533 --> 00:15:58,233
but they never saw anybody
actually walk off with her.
368
00:16:00,533 --> 00:16:04,033
I think everybody figured that
it was a stranger to town.
369
00:16:04,834 --> 00:16:06,633
It was very unusual,
370
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,633
and it was shocking
at the time.
371
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,700
It's something that
not normally happens here.
372
00:16:12,867 --> 00:16:14,533
[Chapman]
When this happened in 1971,
373
00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:17,467
it was a level of fear
in this city
374
00:16:17,633 --> 00:16:20,033
that people who grew up
at that time still remember it.
375
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:21,367
Like, it was
completely different.
376
00:16:21,533 --> 00:16:23,967
Their lives changed.
Everybody was on high alert.
377
00:16:24,133 --> 00:16:25,533
Where this person,
this phantom,
378
00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:27,000
has come
and taken a child
379
00:16:27,166 --> 00:16:29,700
and done
something horrific to them,
380
00:16:29,867 --> 00:16:32,066
and we don't know
who they are.
381
00:16:32,233 --> 00:16:37,000
♪
382
00:16:42,834 --> 00:16:44,333
Welcome back to Crime Beat.
383
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:47,066
The murder of six-year-old
Ljubica Topic
384
00:16:47,233 --> 00:16:48,867
devastated her family
385
00:16:49,033 --> 00:16:53,467
and left Windsor residents
shocked, enraged, and fearful.
386
00:16:53,633 --> 00:16:55,600
Now, everyone wanted
the culprit found, of course,
387
00:16:55,767 --> 00:16:57,667
but 20 years later,
388
00:16:57,834 --> 00:17:00,700
police were still searching
for her killer.
389
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,166
We now return
to "A Million Dead Ends".
390
00:17:07,333 --> 00:17:08,967
[gentle music playing]
391
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,567
[Chapman] You can see,
based on the amount of reports
392
00:17:15,734 --> 00:17:18,200
that are coming in
from 1971 to about 1973,
393
00:17:18,367 --> 00:17:19,867
they put a lot of work
into this case.
394
00:17:20,033 --> 00:17:21,433
Forensics in the '70s
was limited
395
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,500
to hair fiber analysis,
396
00:17:23,667 --> 00:17:25,333
to footprints,
to fingerprints.
397
00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:27,800
Really the only tests available
at that time
398
00:17:27,967 --> 00:17:31,100
were for blood identification,
semen identification,
399
00:17:31,266 --> 00:17:32,700
and potential
hair identification.
400
00:17:32,867 --> 00:17:34,166
[Chapman]
Obviously we have her clothing,
401
00:17:34,333 --> 00:17:36,500
and there were things
like sticks and bushes
402
00:17:36,667 --> 00:17:38,433
that were actually seized
from the area.
403
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,000
She had
a tooth broken out,
404
00:17:40,166 --> 00:17:41,767
and there was a thread
with blood on it.
405
00:17:41,934 --> 00:17:44,533
[Matte] Intimate items that
came from the victim herself
406
00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:46,300
that were collected
at autopsy,
407
00:17:46,467 --> 00:17:48,567
they were examined
for the presence of semen,
408
00:17:48,734 --> 00:17:50,467
and there were various hairs
that were looked at
409
00:17:50,633 --> 00:17:53,066
to determine
what type of hair they were,
410
00:17:53,233 --> 00:17:55,767
but not necessarily
being able to source them.
411
00:17:55,934 --> 00:17:58,467
You could identify that there
may have been blood present,
412
00:17:58,633 --> 00:18:00,667
but not who
it might have come from.
413
00:18:00,834 --> 00:18:02,467
There was
a pubic hair present
414
00:18:02,633 --> 00:18:05,200
on some of the items
collected from the victim,
415
00:18:05,367 --> 00:18:07,800
and that's what
was used going forward
416
00:18:07,967 --> 00:18:11,300
to be able to forensically
assist the investigation.
417
00:18:12,033 --> 00:18:15,834
This particular case underwent
some of the early DNA testing
418
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,333
that took place
in the mid to late '90s.
419
00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:21,333
We were able to develop a DNA
profile from that pubic hair,
420
00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:23,667
and that's what
was used going forward
421
00:18:23,834 --> 00:18:26,033
to be able
to compare individuals
422
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,367
and eliminate them
as the source of that.
423
00:18:28,533 --> 00:18:31,900
So we develop a profile
in-- in the 1990s
424
00:18:32,066 --> 00:18:34,133
of who we think
is responsible for this crime,
425
00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:36,166
and that's when
Ken Luxford and Glenn Hardstone
426
00:18:36,333 --> 00:18:37,633
dig back
into this case.
427
00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:42,633
When we went to visit
Ljubica's mother,
428
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,834
she had a shrine on her mantel
in her apartment
429
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,233
with her picture of
her daughter
430
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,834
and candles and a cross,
431
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,500
and that's 20 years
after the fact.
432
00:18:52,667 --> 00:18:55,667
Just seeing the shrine
and talking to her,
433
00:18:55,834 --> 00:18:57,367
you could feel that...
434
00:18:59,133 --> 00:19:00,900
she was hurting,
very hurting.
435
00:19:01,066 --> 00:19:03,567
She was concerned that
we'd given up,
436
00:19:03,734 --> 00:19:07,633
and I reassured her that
we never give up.
437
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,000
We looked at
all the evidence that we had,
438
00:19:11,166 --> 00:19:13,600
and in the file
there was already a suspect
439
00:19:13,767 --> 00:19:15,400
that was being developed.
440
00:19:15,567 --> 00:19:17,233
He looked like
the compiles.
441
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,700
We spoke to his
common-law wife at the time.
442
00:19:21,867 --> 00:19:24,200
The family had thought
he'd done it.
443
00:19:24,367 --> 00:19:26,633
She had a grandmother
who lived in the area
444
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,266
of the alley
where the body was found,
445
00:19:29,433 --> 00:19:32,767
so there was a connection
with him being there.
446
00:19:32,934 --> 00:19:36,400
Looking at his
criminal records past,
447
00:19:36,567 --> 00:19:39,834
we noticed that
he was always involved
448
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,000
with younger girls,
sexual assaults,
449
00:19:43,166 --> 00:19:46,166
and the trail
had gone from Windsor
450
00:19:46,333 --> 00:19:48,967
to Toronto to Winnipeg.
451
00:19:49,967 --> 00:19:53,900
In Winnipeg, apparently
there was a sexual assault,
452
00:19:54,066 --> 00:19:56,033
and he did time there,
453
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,333
and then after that
he went to Vancouver,
454
00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:01,300
where he eventually
stabbed the girl
455
00:20:01,467 --> 00:20:02,834
that he was living with,
456
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,467
and he was doing
time in prison.
457
00:20:05,633 --> 00:20:07,600
This guy
is a good suspect,
458
00:20:07,767 --> 00:20:10,567
and we just needed
the DNA to match to prove it.
459
00:20:10,734 --> 00:20:12,667
I went to Abbotsford, BC,
460
00:20:12,834 --> 00:20:14,367
with a forensic officer,
461
00:20:14,533 --> 00:20:16,867
and we got his DNA.
462
00:20:17,033 --> 00:20:19,400
That was submitted to
the forensic science people.
463
00:20:19,567 --> 00:20:21,767
Then I come back,
there was no match.
464
00:20:21,934 --> 00:20:23,767
It's one of these many times
in this case
465
00:20:23,934 --> 00:20:26,300
where you're like,
"We finally got this, right?"
466
00:20:26,467 --> 00:20:27,767
Especially once
DNA comes around
467
00:20:27,934 --> 00:20:29,667
where you see, you have
all these people,
468
00:20:29,834 --> 00:20:31,266
but now you know
you got that smoking gun.
469
00:20:31,433 --> 00:20:33,600
If we get the DNA,
we're going to get him.
470
00:20:33,767 --> 00:20:35,200
That's probably the first time
where it's like,
471
00:20:35,367 --> 00:20:37,367
"This is-- this is--
we're going to get him,"
472
00:20:37,533 --> 00:20:38,467
and it's not him.
473
00:20:39,233 --> 00:20:41,700
So the case kind of goes back
on the shelf at that point.
474
00:20:41,867 --> 00:20:43,033
The lead is closed,
475
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,567
and it sits for a few years,
until 2004,
476
00:20:46,734 --> 00:20:48,867
when Kent McMillan
picks it back up.
477
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,266
It was hard to sift through
police reports
478
00:20:53,433 --> 00:20:55,367
that were 40 years old,
479
00:20:55,533 --> 00:20:59,867
and the evidence
and tracking down people,
480
00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:03,400
finding persons of interest
that really fit the bill.
481
00:21:03,567 --> 00:21:05,734
There was just
so many tips.
482
00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:08,467
Some retired detectives
would call with one.
483
00:21:08,633 --> 00:21:10,266
They would talk
to a neighbour
484
00:21:10,433 --> 00:21:12,100
or a friend
or an acquaintance,
485
00:21:12,266 --> 00:21:13,500
and somebody
would mention something
486
00:21:13,667 --> 00:21:15,600
during the course
of conversation.
487
00:21:15,767 --> 00:21:19,967
At odd times, the media would
put out a story on Ljubica,
488
00:21:20,133 --> 00:21:23,100
and then the phones
would start ringing.
489
00:21:23,266 --> 00:21:26,166
You go back into the old files
and try to match them up.
490
00:21:26,333 --> 00:21:27,834
[tense music playing]
491
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,033
In the statements
that we reviewed,
492
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,667
the brother was told
to play for a while
493
00:21:32,834 --> 00:21:36,367
while the abductor
took Ljubica away.
494
00:21:36,533 --> 00:21:38,133
But he immediately
went into the house,
495
00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:39,700
informed his mother and aunt,
496
00:21:39,867 --> 00:21:41,500
who immediately
came out of the house,
497
00:21:41,667 --> 00:21:45,000
headed southbound on Drouillard
to Seminole Street,
498
00:21:45,166 --> 00:21:47,166
which is the first
main crossing there.
499
00:21:47,333 --> 00:21:49,400
By that time,
Ljubica was not in sight,
500
00:21:49,567 --> 00:21:52,266
so we figured
it made sense that
501
00:21:52,433 --> 00:21:55,767
he cut west
either through a house
502
00:21:55,934 --> 00:21:58,567
or on Metcalfe Street
to the first alley,
503
00:21:58,734 --> 00:21:59,900
stayed in the alley,
504
00:22:00,133 --> 00:22:02,567
then cut over to Hickory
when he thought it was safe.
505
00:22:04,633 --> 00:22:07,734
We're currently in the 1600
block of Hickory Road,
506
00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:09,800
and behind me approximately
507
00:22:09,967 --> 00:22:12,066
we had a witness
sitting on his front porch.
508
00:22:12,233 --> 00:22:14,266
Witnessed the suspect
509
00:22:14,433 --> 00:22:17,367
dragging a young girl
who was crying
510
00:22:17,533 --> 00:22:19,166
southbound on the sidewalk.
511
00:22:19,333 --> 00:22:21,500
He went in
to grab a cold drink.
512
00:22:21,667 --> 00:22:23,467
When he came out,
he looked for them.
513
00:22:23,633 --> 00:22:25,200
He looked
north and south,
514
00:22:25,367 --> 00:22:27,734
and when he looked south,
they were already gone.
515
00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:30,533
So we figured
that the suspect took her
516
00:22:30,700 --> 00:22:32,767
into the rear of the house
where she was found.
517
00:22:34,033 --> 00:22:35,300
The fact
that the mother and the aunt
518
00:22:35,467 --> 00:22:38,600
had walked all that way
and had not seen Ljubica,
519
00:22:38,767 --> 00:22:41,834
and surmising the whole time
that the abductor and Ljubica
520
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,500
were paralleling them
southbound at the same time
521
00:22:44,667 --> 00:22:46,667
is the tragedy
of the whole thing.
522
00:22:50,066 --> 00:22:54,100
This was always a DNA case.
That's all we had as evidence.
523
00:22:54,967 --> 00:22:57,467
In 2004,
we resubmitted
524
00:22:57,633 --> 00:22:59,033
all the clothing
from the victim
525
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,500
up to the Centre
of Forensic Sciences.
526
00:23:01,667 --> 00:23:03,800
You'll recall that
we did have a DNA profile
527
00:23:03,967 --> 00:23:06,934
from the pubic hair,
late '90s, but it was one item.
528
00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:09,300
By the time
the mid-2000s came,
529
00:23:09,467 --> 00:23:12,166
we had that same DNA profile
in many locations
530
00:23:12,333 --> 00:23:15,867
on the victim's clothing,
where there was blood present.
531
00:23:16,033 --> 00:23:17,166
It gives you that confidence
532
00:23:17,333 --> 00:23:19,133
that you're dealing with
the target profile,
533
00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:20,834
that this might be
the DNA profile
534
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,700
from the individual
who might be responsible
535
00:23:22,867 --> 00:23:24,100
for this particular event.
536
00:23:25,834 --> 00:23:27,200
[McMillan]
We had quite a few leads
537
00:23:27,367 --> 00:23:28,667
that we had to work on.
538
00:23:28,834 --> 00:23:31,233
One of the most
suspicious but promising
539
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,567
was from a lady who lived
in northern Ontario.
540
00:23:33,734 --> 00:23:36,367
She had been sexually molested
by her brother,
541
00:23:36,533 --> 00:23:38,033
who now resided in Toronto.
542
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,066
He had a record
543
00:23:40,233 --> 00:23:42,433
for sexual assault, kidnapping.
544
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,500
I received
another phone call that stated
545
00:23:45,667 --> 00:23:48,633
he was a resident
on an address
546
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,266
in Assumption Street
in Windsor,
547
00:23:50,433 --> 00:23:53,633
maybe a 25-minute walk
from Drouillard Road,
548
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,734
where Ljubica was living.
549
00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:57,066
Eventually, he was excluded.
550
00:23:57,233 --> 00:24:00,700
There was a family
in town here, who...
551
00:24:00,867 --> 00:24:03,333
the whole family of
career criminals
552
00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:05,433
involved in drugs, theft.
553
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:06,900
We received a tip that
554
00:24:07,066 --> 00:24:09,767
the father of this clan
555
00:24:09,934 --> 00:24:13,533
had molested this person
when they were young...
556
00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:16,266
but he had since passed away,
557
00:24:16,433 --> 00:24:19,300
so we had to get
familial DNA.
558
00:24:19,467 --> 00:24:21,100
He was excluded.
559
00:24:21,266 --> 00:24:22,633
Some people
we just approached
560
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,800
and told them
what we were investigating,
561
00:24:24,967 --> 00:24:28,433
and they agreed
to give us a blood sample.
562
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,200
Other times,
I would have to use
563
00:24:30,367 --> 00:24:32,467
search warrants
to get the blood samples
564
00:24:32,633 --> 00:24:36,133
from hospitals, clinics,
dentist offices.
565
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:38,266
You would have
some very good leads.
566
00:24:38,433 --> 00:24:39,367
They lived in
the neighbourhood.
567
00:24:39,533 --> 00:24:41,266
They knew the family.
568
00:24:41,433 --> 00:24:43,800
They had criminal records of
sexual assault and kidnapping.
569
00:24:43,967 --> 00:24:45,734
They had violent streaks.
570
00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:49,400
But in the end,
they were all excluded.
571
00:24:49,567 --> 00:24:52,133
We excluded
close to 30 people.
572
00:24:54,266 --> 00:24:56,900
During the time
of submitting blood samples,
573
00:24:57,066 --> 00:24:58,767
I was advised by the Centre
574
00:24:58,934 --> 00:25:02,834
that they were running out of
comparative samples.
575
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,967
I arranged for
a meeting up at the Centre,
576
00:25:05,133 --> 00:25:08,533
and I begged that
they go over it one more time.
577
00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:10,667
And thank God they found
578
00:25:10,834 --> 00:25:12,867
more samples
of semen on the clothing,
579
00:25:13,033 --> 00:25:15,667
and that they were
suitable for comparison.
580
00:25:15,834 --> 00:25:17,633
So it gave us more hope
581
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,900
that we were going to be
able to solve this.
582
00:25:30,233 --> 00:25:32,400
I moved here
as a reporter in 2006,
583
00:25:32,567 --> 00:25:34,867
and almost immediately,
especially because I was doing
584
00:25:35,033 --> 00:25:37,266
the crime beat a lot,
people would,
585
00:25:37,433 --> 00:25:38,567
you know, ask me, like,
586
00:25:38,734 --> 00:25:40,166
"Oh, so you know
about Ljubica,
587
00:25:40,333 --> 00:25:41,934
or, "What do you know
about Ljubica," right?
588
00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:43,567
It was always this thing
589
00:25:43,734 --> 00:25:45,400
that was
in the ether of the city.
590
00:25:45,567 --> 00:25:47,333
It really, like,
bled into the fabric.
591
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:49,266
People still talk about it.
592
00:25:49,433 --> 00:25:52,333
People who were kids remember
not really understanding why,
593
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:54,367
but all of a sudden
they couldn't go out to play,
594
00:25:54,533 --> 00:25:56,500
or their parents were
locking the doors at night.
595
00:25:56,667 --> 00:25:58,500
They remember
that very distinctly.
596
00:25:58,667 --> 00:26:00,066
As I was writing it
over the years,
597
00:26:00,233 --> 00:26:02,266
I would get phone calls
or e-mails or letters
598
00:26:02,433 --> 00:26:03,734
about people who were like,
"Oh, I remember that,
599
00:26:03,900 --> 00:26:05,200
and I still think
about it."
600
00:26:05,367 --> 00:26:06,567
They didn't even know her,
601
00:26:06,734 --> 00:26:10,066
but it was this horrific case
that just stuck
602
00:26:10,233 --> 00:26:12,433
in the collective consciousness
of the city.
603
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,233
I landed an interview
with Paula Topic,
604
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,900
Ljubica's mother,
and it was the first time ever
605
00:26:19,066 --> 00:26:21,800
in 40 years that she talked
publicly about it.
606
00:26:21,967 --> 00:26:24,000
That interview
was heartbreaking.
607
00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:26,667
It was clear
that this incident
608
00:26:26,834 --> 00:26:29,567
had just punched
a hole in that family.
609
00:26:29,734 --> 00:26:31,000
It cratered that family,
610
00:26:31,166 --> 00:26:33,266
and she lived with it
every day of her life.
611
00:26:33,433 --> 00:26:35,767
She talked about
still dreaming about her.
612
00:26:35,934 --> 00:26:37,100
She had a photo,
613
00:26:37,266 --> 00:26:38,300
and she would walk by
and, like,
614
00:26:38,467 --> 00:26:40,400
still speak to her little girl
615
00:26:40,567 --> 00:26:42,333
that had died 44 years ago.
616
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:45,166
And it was like, for her,
it had happened yesterday.
617
00:26:45,333 --> 00:26:46,767
She not only
thought about her daughter,
618
00:26:46,934 --> 00:26:48,800
but she thought
about the killer.
619
00:26:48,967 --> 00:26:50,767
Obviously she wondered
who this person was,
620
00:26:50,934 --> 00:26:53,834
but she talked about
just being sad all the time,
621
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,400
and she hoped
that maybe the killer
622
00:26:56,567 --> 00:26:58,166
was living with that as well.
623
00:26:58,333 --> 00:27:00,133
You know, she said, like,
"How could somebody do that
624
00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:02,567
and then not
weigh on them somehow?"
625
00:27:03,033 --> 00:27:04,300
And at the same time,
626
00:27:04,467 --> 00:27:05,934
the police,
for the first time ever,
627
00:27:06,100 --> 00:27:07,300
announced that they had found
628
00:27:07,467 --> 00:27:10,467
this man's tooth
at the scene of the crime.
629
00:27:10,633 --> 00:27:13,400
First time in 44 years,
they had made this announcement
630
00:27:13,567 --> 00:27:16,133
hoping to, like, breathe life
back into this case.
631
00:27:16,867 --> 00:27:20,467
There were teeth found
at the scene that would match
632
00:27:20,633 --> 00:27:23,867
a male suspect between
the ages of 16 and 20.
633
00:27:24,567 --> 00:27:26,133
It's my opinion
that at the scene,
634
00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:28,934
when she was taken
to the rear of 1690 Hickory,
635
00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:32,367
that she fought,
she fought quite violently.
636
00:27:32,533 --> 00:27:35,633
And I know she had
a pair of hard-soled shoes,
637
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:36,800
penny loafers on,
638
00:27:36,967 --> 00:27:38,467
probably kicked him
in the mouth,
639
00:27:38,633 --> 00:27:40,867
which would result
in losing the tooth.
640
00:27:41,033 --> 00:27:43,266
And then he reciprocated
641
00:27:43,433 --> 00:27:46,066
with some very violent actions
towards her.
642
00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:49,800
And just thinking of her...
643
00:27:50,867 --> 00:27:53,834
those last moments,
fighting for her life,
644
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,266
pretty bad.
645
00:27:56,433 --> 00:27:58,200
[Chapman] When I picked up
the case in 2014,
646
00:27:58,367 --> 00:28:00,200
there was a rush
to get this case done,
647
00:28:00,367 --> 00:28:02,834
given the age,
because the age of the case,
648
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,867
the person that we think
is responsible was around 20.
649
00:28:06,033 --> 00:28:07,600
Well, they're getting
up there now, too,
650
00:28:07,767 --> 00:28:09,667
and there's an increased chance
651
00:28:09,834 --> 00:28:11,967
that this person
is also now deceased.
652
00:28:12,133 --> 00:28:14,633
We actually have
over 700 persons of interest
653
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,500
for a variety
of different reasons.
654
00:28:16,667 --> 00:28:18,667
If you have
700 persons of interest,
655
00:28:18,834 --> 00:28:19,834
how many do you really have?
656
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,700
You really--
you don't have any.
657
00:28:21,867 --> 00:28:23,000
Like, you don't have
any focus,
658
00:28:23,166 --> 00:28:24,300
because there's
so many different things
659
00:28:24,467 --> 00:28:26,533
that you have to
go through to eliminate.
660
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,367
When we tested
the vaginal swab in 2015,
661
00:28:32,533 --> 00:28:33,633
we located in evidence.
662
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:34,900
It had never been tested.
663
00:28:35,066 --> 00:28:38,066
The seal was
still intact from 1971.
664
00:28:38,233 --> 00:28:40,133
Comes back
to the exact same profile.
665
00:28:40,867 --> 00:28:42,700
We put it onto databases.
666
00:28:42,867 --> 00:28:44,133
I sent it
to the United States,
667
00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:45,867
and had it compared
to American databases.
668
00:28:46,033 --> 00:28:48,066
I sent it to Europe
to have it compared there.
669
00:28:48,867 --> 00:28:51,767
Hoping for a hit, and it never
registered a hit anywhere.
670
00:28:51,934 --> 00:28:54,934
So now we keep going
for persons of interest.
671
00:28:55,867 --> 00:28:57,300
You come across
these people that look like
672
00:28:57,467 --> 00:29:00,367
very interesting suspects,
but they've been deceased.
673
00:29:00,533 --> 00:29:02,734
It was dead end
after dead end after dead end,
674
00:29:02,900 --> 00:29:04,333
and some of them
were so exciting,
675
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:06,066
like, "This has to be
the right person."
676
00:29:06,233 --> 00:29:08,467
I can tell you that
we eliminated
677
00:29:08,633 --> 00:29:11,834
at least 50
to 60 people by DNA.
678
00:29:12,734 --> 00:29:14,934
So around 2016,
we ended up sending
679
00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:18,200
some of our raw DNA
down to a lab in the States
680
00:29:18,367 --> 00:29:20,867
to have it processed,
to get some phenotyping.
681
00:29:21,033 --> 00:29:23,033
It gives you probability
predictors for things
682
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,467
like hair color,
eye color, freckling.
683
00:29:25,633 --> 00:29:28,633
You can potentially infer
where their ancestral heritage
684
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:29,767
might have come from
in the world,
685
00:29:29,934 --> 00:29:30,934
things like that.
686
00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:32,367
When we get
the phenotyping back,
687
00:29:32,533 --> 00:29:34,300
we learned that this person
was very highly likely
688
00:29:34,467 --> 00:29:36,734
to have just had, like,
brown hair,
689
00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:39,166
was likely to have
little to no freckling,
690
00:29:39,333 --> 00:29:40,700
and I think
the heritage indicated more
691
00:29:40,867 --> 00:29:44,867
towards Scotland
and Northern Europe.
692
00:29:45,033 --> 00:29:47,200
So what we did is we
had a composite done up
693
00:29:47,367 --> 00:29:49,266
from what the person
may have looked like
694
00:29:49,433 --> 00:29:53,100
in 1971 and another one,
what they could look like now.
695
00:29:53,266 --> 00:29:55,133
We actually
released those to the public.
696
00:29:55,300 --> 00:29:56,834
Does this trigger anybody?
697
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,767
No leads were ever developed,
698
00:29:58,934 --> 00:30:01,500
and it just seems to be
another dead end.
699
00:30:03,166 --> 00:30:04,500
[newscaster]
The Golden State Killer case
700
00:30:04,667 --> 00:30:07,100
went unsolved for 43 years.
701
00:30:07,266 --> 00:30:09,500
[Chapman] So in 2018,
Golden State Killer
702
00:30:09,667 --> 00:30:11,133
has just broken,
and they've used
703
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:13,166
investigative
genetic genealogy.
704
00:30:13,333 --> 00:30:14,533
There are
a variety of different
705
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:16,600
Ancestry-type databases
in the United States
706
00:30:16,767 --> 00:30:18,100
where you
can upload your DNA
707
00:30:18,266 --> 00:30:20,834
and you discover people
who share DNA with you.
708
00:30:21,567 --> 00:30:24,467
The way investigative
genetic genealogy works
709
00:30:24,633 --> 00:30:26,934
is you take
the suspect's DNA
710
00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:29,533
and you put it onto
a public website,
711
00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:33,266
and you get matches back,
which means that those people
712
00:30:33,433 --> 00:30:36,433
are genetically matched
with the suspect.
713
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,300
And so if you build
those people's family trees,
714
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,500
the suspect will be
on their family trees.
715
00:30:43,333 --> 00:30:46,667
It'll show
how many centimorgans
716
00:30:46,834 --> 00:30:50,867
the match shares
with the suspect's DNA.
717
00:30:51,033 --> 00:30:52,867
And the higher
the centimorgans,
718
00:30:53,033 --> 00:30:54,700
the closer the relationship.
719
00:30:54,867 --> 00:30:57,367
And so
you can estimate that
720
00:30:57,533 --> 00:31:00,967
the person might be
a second cousin to third cousin
721
00:31:01,133 --> 00:31:03,633
or fourth cousin
to third cousin once removed.
722
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:05,834
[Chapman]
When that kit gets set up,
723
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:06,967
we do come back
with four people
724
00:31:07,133 --> 00:31:08,133
that shared some DNA.
725
00:31:08,300 --> 00:31:09,800
There is more
to varying degrees,
726
00:31:09,967 --> 00:31:12,700
but you can see different
levels of shared centimorgans
727
00:31:12,867 --> 00:31:14,166
between these individuals
728
00:31:14,333 --> 00:31:16,533
and the person
who killed Ljubica.
729
00:31:17,233 --> 00:31:20,066
So now we want to find out
more about these people
730
00:31:20,233 --> 00:31:23,767
and build family trees
around their families.
731
00:31:23,934 --> 00:31:25,934
[Dodich] If they're, let's say,
a second cousin,
732
00:31:26,100 --> 00:31:28,166
you have to build
at least three generations up
733
00:31:28,333 --> 00:31:29,967
and then come down
three generations.
734
00:31:30,133 --> 00:31:31,667
So there's a lot of
people to look through.
735
00:31:31,834 --> 00:31:35,333
We eventually came down
to two suspects
736
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:36,900
that lived in Windsor,
737
00:31:37,066 --> 00:31:38,700
two blocks from the scene,
738
00:31:38,867 --> 00:31:41,300
approximately the right age,
739
00:31:41,467 --> 00:31:44,900
and genetically
looked like it would be
740
00:31:45,066 --> 00:31:48,166
in the right level
on the family tree chart.
741
00:31:50,834 --> 00:31:52,400
[Chapman]
One of them comes up
742
00:31:52,567 --> 00:31:55,533
on our massive person
of interest list from 1971,
743
00:31:55,700 --> 00:31:57,600
so immediately
the focus becomes,
744
00:31:57,767 --> 00:31:59,100
"Let's get DNA
from these guys."
745
00:31:59,266 --> 00:32:02,166
And after two or three months,
we were able to obtain
746
00:32:02,333 --> 00:32:04,400
a sample from
at least the one brother,
747
00:32:04,567 --> 00:32:06,767
the one that his name
was listed in the box.
748
00:32:07,533 --> 00:32:09,433
And I thought, "We're done."
749
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,633
And when we get the CFS
report back,
750
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:12,834
he is excluded.
751
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:13,900
It is not him.
752
00:32:14,767 --> 00:32:16,266
In June of 2019,
753
00:32:16,433 --> 00:32:18,367
I was fortunate
to meet Steve Kramer,
754
00:32:18,533 --> 00:32:19,934
who was with the FBI
at the time,
755
00:32:20,100 --> 00:32:21,533
and worked on
the Golden State Killer case.
756
00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:24,667
He facilitated getting our DNA
profile onto Family Tree DNA.
757
00:32:24,834 --> 00:32:26,800
We're the first
Canadian law enforcement kit
758
00:32:26,967 --> 00:32:28,567
that Family Tree DNA accepted.
759
00:32:28,734 --> 00:32:31,867
And I remember
I was actually out for a jog,
760
00:32:32,033 --> 00:32:34,233
and my phone goes,
it's the day or two
761
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,967
after we've uploaded it,
and it's Steve Kramer.
762
00:32:37,133 --> 00:32:38,433
He's already looked at our kit.
763
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,700
He says, "Hey,
you've got a second cousin."
764
00:32:40,867 --> 00:32:43,934
I'm in heaven.
I mean, a second cousin?
765
00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:45,600
It's like,
"This is awesome."
766
00:32:45,767 --> 00:32:47,867
And it turns out that
767
00:32:48,033 --> 00:32:50,567
his grandmother's brother
768
00:32:50,734 --> 00:32:52,867
was married
to someone else in the tree.
769
00:32:53,033 --> 00:32:55,767
So now we know it's
a descendant of this couple.
770
00:32:55,934 --> 00:32:58,200
[Chapman]
They had a son and a daughter.
771
00:32:58,367 --> 00:32:59,867
The daughter had one son
772
00:33:00,100 --> 00:33:01,867
who lived
in Windsor at the time,
773
00:33:02,033 --> 00:33:05,533
still lives in Windsor,
but based on lifestyle,
774
00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:07,266
really didn't expect
this person to be
775
00:33:07,433 --> 00:33:09,233
the person responsible.
776
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,333
The son from that
intersection had three boys.
777
00:33:14,133 --> 00:33:16,800
So when you look at it,
we have five people,
778
00:33:16,967 --> 00:33:19,400
including the father
of the three boys
779
00:33:19,567 --> 00:33:22,934
that could have potentially
committed this crime.
780
00:33:23,734 --> 00:33:25,967
There are
three of those individuals
781
00:33:26,133 --> 00:33:27,300
that are living.
782
00:33:27,967 --> 00:33:29,867
Two of them are deceased.
783
00:33:30,033 --> 00:33:32,200
One of the three brothers
actually had died
784
00:33:32,367 --> 00:33:34,233
in the previous year or so,
785
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,100
while we were
investigating this.
786
00:33:36,266 --> 00:33:39,066
So I was fortunate
because the focus we had
787
00:33:39,233 --> 00:33:40,166
was two individuals.
788
00:33:40,333 --> 00:33:41,500
One was
this deceased brother,
789
00:33:41,667 --> 00:33:43,266
and the other
was his half-brother.
790
00:33:44,166 --> 00:33:46,367
Based on what I was seeing
with that half-brother
791
00:33:46,533 --> 00:33:48,867
and some of
his known police contacts,
792
00:33:49,033 --> 00:33:52,533
and sort of the similarity
of some of the acts
793
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:54,967
that he did compared to
what we're seeing in this case,
794
00:33:55,133 --> 00:33:57,533
I thought, "It's going to
be this person," right?
795
00:33:57,700 --> 00:34:00,066
Our surveillance team,
working on this person
796
00:34:00,233 --> 00:34:01,867
in another jurisdiction,
797
00:34:02,033 --> 00:34:04,066
was able
to get a sample from him,
798
00:34:04,233 --> 00:34:06,934
and the comparison comes back,
it's not him.
799
00:34:07,100 --> 00:34:08,533
His DNA does not match.
800
00:34:08,700 --> 00:34:10,033
He is not
the person responsible.
801
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,033
So it's just
wind out of the sails.
802
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,200
I ended up contacting
the rest home
803
00:34:15,367 --> 00:34:17,233
that the other brother,
who was in Alberta,
804
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:18,400
and we determined that
805
00:34:18,567 --> 00:34:20,200
there was still
a medical sample.
806
00:34:20,367 --> 00:34:22,300
I wrote a warrant
to obtain that sample.
807
00:34:22,467 --> 00:34:24,333
It was obtained
and brought back here
808
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:26,000
to Windsor from Alberta.
809
00:34:27,867 --> 00:34:30,000
[Matte] In late 2019,
810
00:34:30,166 --> 00:34:32,033
we received
a lung tissue sample
811
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,300
that was
in a paraffin-embedded block,
812
00:34:34,467 --> 00:34:36,333
which we can sometimes
work with and get DNA from,
813
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:37,800
and that's
what was submitted to us.
814
00:34:40,233 --> 00:34:41,500
[Chapman]
I have a great relationship
815
00:34:41,667 --> 00:34:42,700
with the CFS biologist
816
00:34:42,867 --> 00:34:44,333
who worked
on this case with me.
817
00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:47,400
One thing I know about Melinda
is she gets there fairly early.
818
00:34:47,567 --> 00:34:49,367
I think she gets there about
six o'clock in the morning.
819
00:34:49,533 --> 00:34:50,767
She leaves
early in the afternoon.
820
00:34:50,934 --> 00:34:53,567
So if I send her an e-mail
late in the afternoon,
821
00:34:53,734 --> 00:34:56,000
she's not going to get it,
but at 06:01 the next day,
822
00:34:56,166 --> 00:34:57,300
I'm going to have a response.
823
00:34:57,467 --> 00:35:00,300
After I collect myself,
after seeing that
824
00:35:00,467 --> 00:35:03,600
the one half-brother
is not responsible for it,
825
00:35:03,767 --> 00:35:05,500
I said, "I'm going to send her
an e-mail and just say,
826
00:35:05,667 --> 00:35:07,767
'Hey, just following up
on that other sample,
827
00:35:07,934 --> 00:35:09,066
the tissue sample.
828
00:35:09,233 --> 00:35:10,467
We haven't heard back yet.'"
829
00:35:10,633 --> 00:35:12,266
And I get
a bounce-back reply
830
00:35:12,433 --> 00:35:13,834
from her e-mail saying
she's out of office.
831
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,266
Will return on Monday.
832
00:35:27,133 --> 00:35:28,533
Welcome back
to Crime Beat.
833
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:32,600
After nearly five decades,
700 suspects
834
00:35:32,767 --> 00:35:34,633
and countless dead ends,
835
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,367
police think they've found
Ljubica's killer.
836
00:35:37,533 --> 00:35:40,533
But will the DNA results
prove them right this time?
837
00:35:42,767 --> 00:35:46,734
Here now is the conclusion
of "A Million Dead Ends."
838
00:35:47,667 --> 00:35:50,066
[tense music plays]
839
00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:51,867
[Matte]
That particular morning,
840
00:35:52,033 --> 00:35:53,600
it was December 9th,
it was a Monday,
841
00:35:53,767 --> 00:35:55,834
so I came in
as I usually do.
842
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,300
You grab everything
out of your mailbox.
843
00:35:57,467 --> 00:35:58,433
And I realized,
844
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,200
"Oh, the results
are back from this case.
845
00:36:00,367 --> 00:36:01,433
This is great.
Let's take a look."
846
00:36:02,266 --> 00:36:04,600
We've had
a number of comparison samples
847
00:36:04,767 --> 00:36:06,400
that were submitted
to us over the years.
848
00:36:06,567 --> 00:36:10,066
This particular one was unique
in that it was a biopsy sample.
849
00:36:10,233 --> 00:36:12,667
Often we'll typically get
reference samples
850
00:36:12,834 --> 00:36:14,066
from people who are living,
851
00:36:14,233 --> 00:36:16,200
so it may be a blood sample
or a buccal sample,
852
00:36:16,367 --> 00:36:18,767
but to get a lung tissue sample
is not typical.
853
00:36:18,934 --> 00:36:20,000
It's a bit unusual,
854
00:36:20,166 --> 00:36:21,767
and so it sort of
piques your interest.
855
00:36:21,934 --> 00:36:25,300
I look at these papers,
and my breath got taken away.
856
00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:26,934
You look at them,
857
00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:28,000
and you think,
"Oh, my God."
858
00:36:28,166 --> 00:36:29,400
And because I'm an early bird,
859
00:36:29,567 --> 00:36:31,066
there's nobody else around,
860
00:36:31,233 --> 00:36:32,433
and I'm the only one
that knows.
861
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:33,934
And then I have
the email from Scott
862
00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:36,233
sitting in my inbox,
and I can't tell him.
863
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,300
I worked an afternoon shift
at Major Crime that night.
864
00:36:38,467 --> 00:36:39,500
I got home.
865
00:36:39,667 --> 00:36:40,967
By the time I got up
in the morning,
866
00:36:41,133 --> 00:36:41,967
it's eleven o'clock.
867
00:36:42,133 --> 00:36:43,200
So I checked my email,
868
00:36:43,367 --> 00:36:44,567
and I have nothing from her.
869
00:36:44,734 --> 00:36:45,934
That's really unusual,
because she's really good
870
00:36:46,100 --> 00:36:47,200
at getting back to you.
871
00:36:47,367 --> 00:36:48,867
We always have to get
everything checked
872
00:36:49,033 --> 00:36:50,667
to make sure
that it is sound
873
00:36:50,834 --> 00:36:52,600
and that I'm releasing
reliable results.
874
00:36:52,767 --> 00:36:55,233
Being able to finally email him
back and say,
875
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:56,800
"Can I call you?"
876
00:36:56,967 --> 00:36:57,967
With no answer to his question,
877
00:36:58,133 --> 00:36:59,133
just, "Can I call you?"
878
00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:00,633
That's when
your heart starts racing.
879
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,000
I still remember
I'm sitting on my couch,
880
00:37:03,166 --> 00:37:06,333
12:30, phone rings,
it's Melinda.
881
00:37:06,500 --> 00:37:08,767
And I remember her saying,
"Are you sitting down?"
882
00:37:08,934 --> 00:37:11,600
And she says,
"Yeah, this is a match."
883
00:37:12,567 --> 00:37:14,166
All those profiles
you've been generating
884
00:37:14,333 --> 00:37:17,367
since the mid-'90s,
and they're the same.
885
00:37:17,533 --> 00:37:18,500
This matches.
886
00:37:18,667 --> 00:37:20,166
A wave of emotion hits me.
887
00:37:20,333 --> 00:37:22,233
I've been working
this for five years.
888
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,200
Kent McMillan, eight years.
889
00:37:24,367 --> 00:37:26,333
Luxford and Hardstone
put a couple years on this.
890
00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:28,800
All these guys,
dating back to 1971,
891
00:37:28,967 --> 00:37:30,100
who have carried
this case on,
892
00:37:30,266 --> 00:37:32,467
and for the first time
in 48 years,
893
00:37:32,633 --> 00:37:34,100
you've identified
the person,
894
00:37:34,266 --> 00:37:35,400
which is what you wanted,
895
00:37:35,567 --> 00:37:37,066
but now it's
all these extra steps, like,
896
00:37:37,233 --> 00:37:39,700
okay, we've got to
let the family know.
897
00:37:39,867 --> 00:37:41,400
And you pull up
in front of the house,
898
00:37:41,567 --> 00:37:42,967
and you know the family's
all waiting in there,
899
00:37:43,133 --> 00:37:45,000
and you're like,
"Oh, my God."
900
00:37:45,166 --> 00:37:47,700
Paula absolutely understood
what I was telling her.
901
00:37:47,867 --> 00:37:49,333
It's not happiness
because it's still
902
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:51,800
the death of Ljubica,
but the fact that
903
00:37:51,967 --> 00:37:53,400
there's finally some
resolution,
904
00:37:53,567 --> 00:37:54,667
there's a relief...
905
00:37:55,567 --> 00:37:58,033
in that family that it was not
somebody that they knew.
906
00:37:59,166 --> 00:38:01,533
Over the past 48 years,
we've continued to search
907
00:38:01,700 --> 00:38:02,934
for answers in this case.
908
00:38:03,967 --> 00:38:05,300
As of Monday,
December 9th,
909
00:38:05,467 --> 00:38:08,400
2019, that search
is now over.
910
00:38:09,633 --> 00:38:11,500
It was a very emotional
press conference.
911
00:38:12,767 --> 00:38:14,367
You know, the detectives
that had worked on it,
912
00:38:14,533 --> 00:38:16,600
even the last few years,
there was ones there that were,
913
00:38:16,767 --> 00:38:17,800
right from the beginning,
914
00:38:17,967 --> 00:38:19,300
there wasn't a dry eye
in the house.
915
00:38:19,467 --> 00:38:21,734
You could tell those officers,
it meant a lot to them.
916
00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:23,133
And several
of them said, like,
917
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:26,066
"This is the defining moment
of my career."
918
00:38:26,233 --> 00:38:27,600
We got a lot of
letters saying, like...
919
00:38:28,533 --> 00:38:29,867
"I've always wondered.
920
00:38:30,033 --> 00:38:32,066
Thank God they finally
found out who did this.
921
00:38:32,233 --> 00:38:35,066
I'm just glad this person's
not still out there.
922
00:38:35,233 --> 00:38:37,400
I knew Ljubica
when I was in kindergarten.
923
00:38:37,567 --> 00:38:40,367
You know, I visited
her grave over the years,
924
00:38:40,533 --> 00:38:42,367
and I just always wondered,
925
00:38:42,533 --> 00:38:45,433
and I'm just so glad
this was finally solved."
926
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:46,867
So at that press conference,
927
00:38:47,033 --> 00:38:49,100
the police said
they have solved the case.
928
00:38:49,266 --> 00:38:50,500
"We know exactly
who it was.
929
00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:54,800
This man moved
somewhere out west
930
00:38:54,967 --> 00:38:58,166
after the crime,
and that's it."
931
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,000
It irked me.
932
00:39:01,166 --> 00:39:02,400
So they made
this big show about,
933
00:39:02,567 --> 00:39:04,834
after all this time,
finally solving this case.
934
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,033
We know who it was,
closure for the family,
935
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:09,467
closure for the community.
936
00:39:10,467 --> 00:39:11,633
Except there
wasn't closure...
937
00:39:12,700 --> 00:39:14,633
because they refused
to say who it was.
938
00:39:15,333 --> 00:39:17,467
They claimed
it was a privacy issue,
939
00:39:17,633 --> 00:39:18,967
because this man had died.
940
00:39:20,133 --> 00:39:21,867
And they wouldn't even tell us
when he had died.
941
00:39:22,033 --> 00:39:24,300
Their argument was,
since he's dead,
942
00:39:24,467 --> 00:39:25,900
they cannot
officially charge him.
943
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:27,900
And since
they can't charge him,
944
00:39:28,066 --> 00:39:29,200
they can't release his name,
945
00:39:29,367 --> 00:39:31,700
because it would violate
his right to privacy.
946
00:39:32,367 --> 00:39:34,934
Their claim was that
a dead person has a right
947
00:39:35,100 --> 00:39:37,033
to privacy
30 years after their death.
948
00:39:38,166 --> 00:39:40,567
First of all, they had released
names of dead suspects
949
00:39:40,734 --> 00:39:44,633
in the past, as have
many other police forces.
950
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,333
So it just
didn't hold water for me.
951
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:50,567
So we did several stories.
We talked to experts.
952
00:39:50,734 --> 00:39:54,266
We wrote columns saying,
"This doesn't make any sense."
953
00:39:54,433 --> 00:39:55,934
It's a general consensus,
I think,
954
00:39:56,100 --> 00:39:57,433
that you can't libel
a dead person.
955
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,433
So that was one issue we had.
956
00:40:00,433 --> 00:40:02,367
The other one was,
it's only right
957
00:40:02,533 --> 00:40:04,233
that after all this time,
958
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,934
the community
should have closure too.
959
00:40:06,767 --> 00:40:08,834
And the third issue
we had was,
960
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,033
what other crimes out there
could this help with?
961
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,100
There might be a cold case
out west where he moved.
962
00:40:14,266 --> 00:40:15,333
There might have been
some in Windsor.
963
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:16,800
We don't know.
964
00:40:16,967 --> 00:40:18,567
There's no way to know unless
you put it out there.
965
00:40:18,734 --> 00:40:21,066
So we didn't let it go.
966
00:40:22,133 --> 00:40:25,533
The next step was a
Freedom of Information request.
967
00:40:25,700 --> 00:40:28,300
We asked
for the identity of the killer,
968
00:40:28,467 --> 00:40:29,800
his age at the time.
969
00:40:29,967 --> 00:40:31,900
Did he know the family?
970
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,567
Where he lived
in proximity to the family.
971
00:40:36,734 --> 00:40:40,200
And where did he go
out west when he moved?
972
00:40:40,367 --> 00:40:42,300
And are you aware
of any other crimes
973
00:40:42,467 --> 00:40:44,600
that he might have done?
974
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:46,300
Denied.
975
00:40:47,033 --> 00:40:48,266
Police wouldn't
give it to us.
976
00:40:48,433 --> 00:40:50,900
We appealed. Denied again.
977
00:40:51,066 --> 00:40:53,400
So we appealed it
to the Privacy Commission.
978
00:40:53,567 --> 00:40:57,433
And that began more
than a three-year process
979
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,533
of us fighting
with them to get it.
980
00:40:59,700 --> 00:41:02,633
And then late one night,
I was sitting at home,
981
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,934
and I got an email
982
00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:08,233
from the Windsor
Police Privacy people saying,
983
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,200
"After a correspondence
984
00:41:10,367 --> 00:41:14,266
from the Privacy Commission
and after a new look at this
985
00:41:14,433 --> 00:41:17,300
from new police management,
here it is."
986
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,133
So I found out
that the killer's name
987
00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:21,800
was Frank Arthur Hall.
988
00:41:22,667 --> 00:41:26,333
He was 22, an unemployed
laborer at the time, I believe.
989
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,500
And he lived just down
the street from this family.
990
00:41:30,667 --> 00:41:32,000
I think they lived
in the 1200 block
991
00:41:32,166 --> 00:41:35,433
of Drouillard Road
and he was in the 1800 block.
992
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:36,633
[Chapman]
He was from Windsor.
993
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,066
He had some minor
criminal contacts
994
00:41:39,967 --> 00:41:43,700
with Windsor Police Service
before and some afterwards.
995
00:41:43,867 --> 00:41:46,834
Nothing of significant
eye-catching nature
996
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,333
that you would look at
this person and say,
997
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:49,700
"Oh, wow,
look at that."
998
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:53,500
I found his contact card,
and I could see that
999
00:41:53,667 --> 00:41:56,200
in May of 1971,
his address changed
1000
00:41:56,367 --> 00:41:58,800
to 1817 Drouillard Road,
1001
00:41:58,967 --> 00:42:01,300
which is six blocks
from the induction point
1002
00:42:01,467 --> 00:42:04,700
and about two blocks
from where she was murdered.
1003
00:42:04,867 --> 00:42:06,700
He did end up
migrating out west,
1004
00:42:06,867 --> 00:42:10,166
and he lived in Edmonton
for the remainder of his days.
1005
00:42:10,333 --> 00:42:12,567
He raised children after that.
1006
00:42:12,734 --> 00:42:14,967
Actually, that was
the next chapter in this case,
1007
00:42:15,133 --> 00:42:17,834
because a few years later
we decided
1008
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:19,300
we were going to
release the name.
1009
00:42:20,667 --> 00:42:22,266
We had to let
his daughters know.
1010
00:42:22,433 --> 00:42:24,567
I've got to go out
and tell them
1011
00:42:24,734 --> 00:42:26,633
some pretty horrific news
about their father.
1012
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,633
And I've never seen
two people absorb
1013
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,066
that type of news
as well as these two did.
1014
00:42:34,567 --> 00:42:35,734
Yeah, very impressed
with them.
1015
00:42:37,734 --> 00:42:39,467
[Trevor] The Windsor Police
did say that it was
1016
00:42:39,633 --> 00:42:42,667
two parts, new management
having another look at it,
1017
00:42:42,834 --> 00:42:45,800
and the Windsor Star
fighting for it for so long,
1018
00:42:45,967 --> 00:42:48,266
that they finally
decided to release it.
1019
00:42:48,433 --> 00:42:50,133
It was nice
to at least acknowledge that
1020
00:42:50,300 --> 00:42:53,400
it was related somehow
to this battle we went through.
1021
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,767
[reporter]
When you finally hear that
1022
00:42:55,934 --> 00:42:57,066
the case has been solved
1023
00:42:57,233 --> 00:42:59,700
and you hear the name,
what did you think?
1024
00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:01,633
I never heard
the name before.
1025
00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:04,433
That name was not
in the box.
1026
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,367
When I received the word
that they had found him,
1027
00:43:08,533 --> 00:43:10,734
it was
a real satisfying day.
1028
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:12,133
Probably the crowning moment
of my career
1029
00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:13,800
to actually get to that point.
1030
00:43:13,967 --> 00:43:15,033
And I think
it's a crowning moment
1031
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:16,233
for this police service
1032
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,233
to be able to preserve
that evidence
1033
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,233
and just pursue this
1034
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,934
until it was finally finished
after almost 50 years.
1035
00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:27,900
From day one,
with the officers on the scene,
1036
00:43:28,066 --> 00:43:29,200
with the forensic officers
1037
00:43:29,367 --> 00:43:32,000
and all the officers all along,
it's like,
1038
00:43:32,166 --> 00:43:36,433
this is the culmination
of everybody's hard work.
1039
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:37,767
And why did we do this?
1040
00:43:38,533 --> 00:43:39,367
For the family.
1041
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,100
Worth every second I put in.
1042
00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:46,667
[Chapman] You know,
you have this picture
1043
00:43:46,834 --> 00:43:48,533
of this young girl
walking away,
1044
00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:50,166
holding hands
with this monster
1045
00:43:50,333 --> 00:43:51,467
who was about
to take her life,
1046
00:43:51,633 --> 00:43:53,400
and her brother
kind of watching,
1047
00:43:53,567 --> 00:43:55,433
not really understanding
what was happening.
1048
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:56,967
I think that was
one of the things
1049
00:43:57,133 --> 00:43:59,700
that really struck
a chord with people was that
1050
00:43:59,867 --> 00:44:02,166
that kind of thing never
happened in Windsor before.
1051
00:44:02,333 --> 00:44:04,633
But now it happened, and like,
it could happen to anybody.
1052
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,200
That could happen to my kid,
1053
00:44:06,367 --> 00:44:07,700
or that could happen
to your kid.
1054
00:44:07,867 --> 00:44:10,333
And so that was a scary thought
for a lot of people.
1055
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:12,600
It made them more concerned
about their neighbour.
1056
00:44:12,767 --> 00:44:13,800
Like, we look out
for our neighbour
1057
00:44:13,967 --> 00:44:14,767
a little more, maybe.
1058
00:44:15,834 --> 00:44:18,300
They never forgot.
That was the thing.
1059
00:44:18,467 --> 00:44:20,300
They never forgot
that little girl.
1060
00:44:21,066 --> 00:44:23,100
And that made me feel good,
1061
00:44:23,266 --> 00:44:25,934
because she
shouldn't have been forgotten.
1062
00:44:32,166 --> 00:44:33,934
[Antony] Though Ljubica's
family declined
1063
00:44:34,100 --> 00:44:36,667
to speak with us
on camera for this episode,
1064
00:44:36,834 --> 00:44:38,200
they did tell us about
1065
00:44:38,367 --> 00:44:41,567
the shadow they lived under
following her death.
1066
00:44:41,734 --> 00:44:45,934
With Frank Hall dead,
they will never know why.
1067
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:47,433
But they are
immensely grateful
1068
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,767
to the Windsor Police Service
for never giving up.
1069
00:44:50,934 --> 00:44:52,800
In solving Ljubica's murder,
1070
00:44:52,967 --> 00:44:57,066
they received the Linda Shaw
Memorial Award for cold cases.
1071
00:45:00,467 --> 00:45:01,734
I'm Antony Robart.
1072
00:45:01,900 --> 00:45:04,500
Thank you for joining us
tonight on Crime Beat.
1073
00:45:06,233 --> 00:45:07,934
Want more episodes
of Crime Beat?
1074
00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:09,934
Listen to
the Crime Beat podcast,
1075
00:45:10,100 --> 00:45:13,400
now for free
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
1076
00:45:13,567 --> 00:45:16,066
or wherever you find
your favorite podcasts.
1077
00:45:16,233 --> 00:45:18,467
And for past episodes
of Crime Beat,
1078
00:45:18,633 --> 00:45:22,367
go to the Global TV app,
visit GlobalTV.com,
1079
00:45:22,533 --> 00:45:25,467
or check out
our Crime Beat YouTube page.
1080
00:45:25,633 --> 00:45:27,633
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