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[siren wailing]
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♪
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[camera shutter clicks]
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[Silva]
If I had a chance to say,
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00:00:39,474 --> 00:00:41,867
"Would you want an investigation
like that again?
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00:00:41,998 --> 00:00:46,350
Three homicides,
connected with satanic cults?"
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I'd say, "Are you crazy?"
It destroyed my life.
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I got divorced in the process,
in the middle of it.
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It was... it consumed me.
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Carl Drew was initially
charged with two murders,
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that of Doreen Levesque
and Karen Marsden.
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Carl Drew was sentenced
for all of his natural life
to be in prison.
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There were many aspects
that corroborated Carl's
innocence story
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that had been omitted
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or trampled under at trial.
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[Silva] Leah Johnson
was Carl Drew's girlfriend.
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And, uh,
she had Karen Marsden's ring.
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The ring placed Carl
at the scene of the homicide.
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[Hayes] We tracked down
Leah Johnson and she said,
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"Oh, yeah, you know,
the whole ring story,
that's a bullshit story."
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[Fitzgerald] Carol Fletcher,
she was another prostitute.
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We spoke to her several times.
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Carol witnessed Robin Murphy
killing Karen Marsden.
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[woman] They have, you know,
made their case on Robin
being a central figure in this
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and her being a main perpetrator
instead of a victim.
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[woman] Robin had a very
rough upbringing,
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a very troubled,
troubled background.
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[Murphy] I was molested
and raped by Andy Maltais,
starting at age 11.
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[woman] Andy was a pedophile,
basically.
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He liked young girls.
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Andy Maltais... he was
gonna give me a ride home.
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He repeatedly raped me.
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[woman] He would drive around
and find these young girls.
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People like that,
they're predators.
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I went to the police station
and told them about Andy.
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They wouldn't even take my
statement 'cause I was only 12.
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They didn't care.
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[man]
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No.
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[woman] You had, you know, girls
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being exploited and they just
weren't particularly concerned
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about the exploitation factor
of those girls.
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[woman] Barbara Raposa
had gone to high school
with Robin Murphy.
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[Silvia] I really didn't know
much about Barbara
until we found her body.
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[Murphy] Andy Maltais, I didn't
say he murdered Barbara
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because of what he did to me,
but so that he couldn't
do it to anyone else.
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And it worked.
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[man] Without Robin Murphy,
they wouldn't have had
a case at all.
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[woman] How do we know
what is the truth today?
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I don't think you do.
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It does not stand to reason
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that one 17-year-old woman
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would be at three
separate murders
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committed by separate men
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at separate times
in separate places.
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It just doesn't make sense.
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How can one person
be in all these places?
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What is she, Forrest Gump?
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♪
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♪
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Lenny Bruce famously said
that in the halls of justice
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the only justice
is in the halls.
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And this is one of those cases.
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Carl Drew went to prison
based entirely
on the word of these women
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whose stories never matched up,
not once, not ever.
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Not once on the stand,
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not once in interviews
with the cops,
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nothing added up.
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[Drew] Mike Cutler was appointed
to me as an attorney,
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and he
ended up putting
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all this stuff together
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and we submitted it
in the court, you know?
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A motion for new trial
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is designed to bring
new evidence,
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or evidence that wasn't
admitted at trial, into court
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so that a new trial motion judge
can look at that evidence.
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And the judge
granted that motion.
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We were granted the
evidentiary hearing.
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We produced
the evidence.
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Everybody who said,
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"This is what happened" recanted
and said they were coerced.
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[Hayes on tape]
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[woman on tape]
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[woman]
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[Fitzgerald] I got a call from
the assistant district attorney.
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He called me and asked me,
"Could I go to the trial
with them?" And I said,
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"Yes, it's too important a case
to have to retry."
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[Cutler] These cases ultimately,
unless you have
forensic evidence,
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uh, come down to
a credibility contest.
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The witnesses,
Fletcher and Johnson,
were in tough shape.
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Yet, they kept it together
and they showed up.
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[man on tape]
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[Hayes] Carol Fletcher,
she said, "Carl shouldn't even
be in jail at all."
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[Fletcher]
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She said, "He wasn't there,
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what happened at the trial
was that we were all coerced,
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we were all threatened.
That, you know, they put us
in jail or whatever."
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She's like, "And, of course,
we all have
criminal backgrounds,
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we were probably all
on probation.
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And so we just said whatever
it was they wanted us to say."
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[Cutler] There is some amount
of witness manipulation
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that a prosecutor
is permitted to do.
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It's just that telling someone
that you're not gonna send them
to prison
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if they testify for you
is, uh, inherently coercive.
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[man] Right. Yeah. Yeah.
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[McPhee] This is a class issue.
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Where poor people go to prison.
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They don't have access
to defense attorneys,
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they don't have people clamoring
for their release.
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From the very beginning of this
case, I've told these people
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that I couldn't read
and I couldn't write
and all that stuff.
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And they end up using that
and took advantage of that.
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Knowing that I couldn't,
you know,
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I couldn't understand
a lot of the stuff that
they were telling me about.
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This is another example,
in this particular case,
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you know, we would call it
in Boston, here's a poor whiskey
tango dude with no family,
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and it was very easy
to railroad him into prison.
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[man]
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[Johnson]
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They weren't the greatest
witnesses in the world.
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They were vigorously
cross-examined.
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Leah Johnson in particular.
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And, as I recall correctly,
she was sitting in the back
of the courtroom,
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she nodded out
and I think fell over,
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uh, which... certainly didn't
enhance her credibility.
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All of the people who had been
involved in the investigation
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were brought out of retirement
or located.
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All these people were brought
back to trial and said,
you know,
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"These are all drug-addicted
street workers,
you can't believe 'em."
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[man]
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[Johnson]
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[man 2]
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[Johnson]
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She was comfortable with us.
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We weren't intimidating her.
We didn't have any problems
with her.
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We got along with her very well.
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00:11:01,573 --> 00:11:05,534
[Fitzgerald] The testimony
of Carol Fletcher
and originally Leah,
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00:11:05,665 --> 00:11:09,669
everything fit in
with the evidence
that we found at the scene.
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We did get the rental car
that Carol had driven
with that group that night
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00:11:32,517 --> 00:11:36,260
and had it tested by the state
police crime lab for blood.
Never found any blood.
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Well, if they didn't use
that vehicle, if they
used another vehicle.
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They could have gone back
the next day.
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00:12:01,372 --> 00:12:06,116
That's... we didn't find any
blood in the car because she was
killed outside the car.
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And we didn't find any blood
in the car because if the story,
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the rumors that we heard,
that she had been cut up
and thrown in dumpsters...
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-[director]
-[Fitzgerald] Yes, you are.
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-[director]
-Absolutely.
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But if they...
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00:12:27,790 --> 00:12:31,576
[McPhee] There's no physical
evidence at all tying Carl Drew
to these crimes.
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00:12:31,707 --> 00:12:34,231
Not a single iota
of physical evidence.
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[Fitzgerald] Karen was killed...
where she was killed,
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off Roberts Street,
Family Beach, in Westport.
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That's where her clothing
was found, that's
where her hair was found.
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-[director]
-No.
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[McPhee] That should have
reopened this case and earned
Carl Drew a new trial.
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00:13:04,479 --> 00:13:06,829
But no one wants to relive
this case.
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[Cutler] I called Robin Murphy
as our witness.
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I had her parole hearing
in which she said she had lied.
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00:13:22,323 --> 00:13:24,064
[woman]
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00:13:30,287 --> 00:13:32,159
There was a palpable sense
of evil in the room.
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At least, to my perception.
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And she... spit out
her testimony.
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And she couldn't deny
the fact that she had
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recanted under oath
at the parole hearing.
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[woman]
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But she continued to express
hostility towards Carl
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and tried to say
that he had done it,
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uh, despite her saying
that he hadn't done it.
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00:14:05,714 --> 00:14:08,282
If there
was a new trial granted,
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00:14:08,412 --> 00:14:12,939
and you can't count on Robin's
reliability and testimony,
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00:14:13,069 --> 00:14:16,464
and Carol is now
a defense witness
and Leah is a defense witness,
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00:14:16,594 --> 00:14:18,466
then what evidence do you have?
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'Cause there wasn't a shred
of actual evidence.
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[Cutler] There's no evidence.
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There's no evidence
that he's guilty.
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The only evidence was
Robin Murphy and Carol Fletcher
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00:14:28,955 --> 00:14:31,087
saying that they were there
and saw it happen,
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00:14:31,218 --> 00:14:34,569
uh, and they've both denied it.
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00:14:34,699 --> 00:14:39,269
I sure thought that,
if I had a straight-up judge,
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I should have been entitled
to the benefit of the doubt.
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00:14:43,795 --> 00:14:45,014
But I didn't have
a straight-up judge.
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00:14:49,801 --> 00:14:51,151
They just completely
shut it down.
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00:14:59,768 --> 00:15:02,553
Me and Paul and Mike Cutler,
we were shocked and amazed.
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00:15:09,734 --> 00:15:12,694
[Cutler] The judge, um,
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00:15:12,824 --> 00:15:19,135
who I was trying
the new trial motion to,
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00:15:19,266 --> 00:15:24,227
I later heard rumors was having
lunch every day with the former
prosecutor on the case,
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00:15:24,358 --> 00:15:27,361
to be sure that everything
was going copacetically.
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00:15:46,249 --> 00:15:50,514
The judge said, "You know what?
A new trial isn't
gonna be granted. It's done.
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00:15:50,645 --> 00:15:52,777
He'll stay in jail forever,
190
00:15:52,908 --> 00:15:56,781
and she'll still be able
to go out and get parole
if she can.
191
00:15:56,912 --> 00:15:59,219
And that's it.
We don't wanna hear it anymore."
192
00:15:59,349 --> 00:16:01,830
It was a fucking huge blunder.
193
00:16:01,961 --> 00:16:05,660
[Cutler] It's been a difficult
process for me to get
into this case.
194
00:16:05,790 --> 00:16:08,184
A case I worked on for 11 years.
195
00:16:08,315 --> 00:16:10,012
Didn't work out for my client.
196
00:16:10,143 --> 00:16:12,580
Carl's done 40 years for
something that he didn't do
197
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:15,322
and all of these other people
have moved on.
198
00:16:15,452 --> 00:16:17,367
Carl's still in prison.
199
00:16:17,498 --> 00:16:20,849
Carl has exhausted his appeals.
200
00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:24,287
He obviously thought he had
a good case for an appeal.
201
00:16:24,418 --> 00:16:27,334
That failed. He gets no more
bite at the apple.
202
00:16:27,464 --> 00:16:31,164
Unless there's some new evidence
that arises.
203
00:16:37,909 --> 00:16:41,130
♪
204
00:17:35,489 --> 00:17:39,493
I lived in Harbor Terrace
in the top row, um,
205
00:17:39,623 --> 00:17:44,193
two doors... two entryways
down from Sonny.
206
00:17:45,977 --> 00:17:47,979
My father just wasn't
in the picture.
207
00:17:48,110 --> 00:17:52,854
And, uh, in the projects
that wasn't abnormal.
208
00:17:52,984 --> 00:17:58,599
And my mother,
she died June 14, 2013.
209
00:18:00,340 --> 00:18:02,559
And when she passed,
210
00:18:02,690 --> 00:18:06,128
I cleaned out her apartment
and I found a baby book
211
00:18:06,259 --> 00:18:09,262
which had like my first steps,
when my first steps were,
212
00:18:09,392 --> 00:18:13,440
my first toy, and, um...
213
00:18:13,570 --> 00:18:16,095
And a picture of Carl Drew.
214
00:18:19,533 --> 00:18:23,667
He was the first one
to come see me in the hospital.
215
00:18:23,798 --> 00:18:27,541
I found a, uh, a Facebook page
that Carl had
216
00:18:27,671 --> 00:18:30,370
and he wanted me
to go see him. So I did.
217
00:18:33,721 --> 00:18:37,072
I asked him if he might know
who my father is.
218
00:18:37,203 --> 00:18:41,250
Um, and then he ended up telling
me there's a chance that he
could be my father.
219
00:19:17,243 --> 00:19:20,115
My mother
wasn't physically abusive.
220
00:19:20,246 --> 00:19:24,598
You know, but she, uh,
you know, she was a drug addict
and a prostitute.
221
00:19:24,728 --> 00:19:28,819
And, uh, you know,
so I witnessed a lot
of like fighting,
222
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:33,781
a lot of... different stuff,
and, uh...
223
00:19:33,911 --> 00:19:35,652
I started acting up in school.
224
00:19:35,783 --> 00:19:38,568
And, um... they, uh...
225
00:19:38,699 --> 00:19:43,225
they recommended they put me
in like special needs, um...
226
00:19:43,356 --> 00:19:46,228
They didn't know what was wrong
with me, they recommended me
to do like counseling.
227
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,927
So when I was probably about,
I don't know, five or six,
228
00:19:50,058 --> 00:19:53,017
I had told my mother that, um,
229
00:19:53,148 --> 00:19:57,718
I saw these people
up on the roof killing a girl.
230
00:20:02,462 --> 00:20:03,854
I saw three for sure.
231
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,990
I'm pretty sure one is Robin.
The other two I'm, uh,
232
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,385
100 percent sure was Sonny
and Carl Davis.
233
00:20:15,431 --> 00:20:18,478
-[director]
-There's a lot of commotion,
a lot of screaming.
234
00:20:18,608 --> 00:20:20,871
I don't remember
how I got up there.
235
00:20:21,002 --> 00:20:23,047
Just a lot of yelling.
236
00:20:23,178 --> 00:20:25,224
I think I was crying.
237
00:20:28,966 --> 00:20:30,794
No, it's kind of a blur.
238
00:20:32,883 --> 00:20:33,536
She would have been dead.
239
00:20:36,626 --> 00:20:39,499
There was a woman on the roof
that...
240
00:20:39,629 --> 00:20:40,804
that Carl Davis
was holding back.
241
00:20:44,112 --> 00:20:47,376
Well, Carl Davis was probably
pulling, um...
242
00:20:48,812 --> 00:20:49,857
Robin off her.
243
00:20:49,987 --> 00:20:51,293
Karen.
244
00:21:04,567 --> 00:21:06,917
I'm waiting
for Carl to call.
245
00:21:07,048 --> 00:21:09,877
Um... he has limited access
246
00:21:10,007 --> 00:21:12,009
to email through
a prison system,
247
00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:15,099
so I sent him an email and it
takes him a while to get it.
248
00:21:15,230 --> 00:21:16,840
And then I have to wait
till he gets phone time.
249
00:21:16,971 --> 00:21:19,016
And then can call me
at any minute,
250
00:21:19,147 --> 00:21:21,280
and I just kind of have to be
on standby for when he calls.
251
00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:29,244
The witness is interesting
'cause I'm not really sure
what to believe.
252
00:21:29,375 --> 00:21:33,204
I mean, aside
from the interview,
I spent the whole day with him.
253
00:21:33,335 --> 00:21:37,208
You know, I was in Fall River,
I spent the whole day with him,
254
00:21:37,339 --> 00:21:40,081
I went to lunch with him,
I talked to him, I saw his ID.
255
00:21:40,211 --> 00:21:43,606
So there's no question
he is who he says he is.
256
00:21:43,737 --> 00:21:50,178
And I really believe that he
believes what he's saying.
257
00:21:50,309 --> 00:21:55,096
There's also the issue of him
being presumably Carl's son.
258
00:21:55,226 --> 00:21:58,839
You know, so he has
that motivation
259
00:21:58,969 --> 00:22:04,018
to kind of at least tailor
his memory to want to help Carl.
260
00:22:04,148 --> 00:22:05,889
I don't think he's doing that
on purpose.
261
00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:10,024
But, um, it's possible.
262
00:22:10,154 --> 00:22:12,635
I think the challenge in all
this is that everybody has
a piece of the puzzle.
263
00:22:12,766 --> 00:22:15,159
And we have to step back
and look at all the pieces
264
00:22:15,290 --> 00:22:17,597
and put that together
into a collective story.
265
00:22:17,727 --> 00:22:20,121
And that's what tells you
what happened.
266
00:22:20,251 --> 00:22:23,820
-[phone rings]
-Okay. This is Carl.
267
00:22:23,951 --> 00:22:26,954
[phone rings]
268
00:22:27,084 --> 00:22:30,087
[automated voice] Hello.
This is a prepaid collect
call from...
269
00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:35,702
Carl. Hey.
270
00:22:35,832 --> 00:22:37,878
Carl, can you hear me?
271
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,273
Okay, so I met with the witness.
272
00:22:42,404 --> 00:22:45,842
And, um, he told me about
the roof of Harbor Terrace.
273
00:22:45,973 --> 00:22:48,062
And I assume he's told you
the same thing?
274
00:22:57,463 --> 00:23:01,510
I do think there's another
possibility that I wanna
ask you about, I guess.
275
00:23:03,469 --> 00:23:05,906
So starting
with Doreen Levesque.
276
00:23:06,036 --> 00:23:07,516
She's the girl
under the bleachers.
277
00:23:07,647 --> 00:23:09,692
She's killed first.
278
00:23:13,609 --> 00:23:17,004
[Silvia] Doreen Levesque,
her head and face
were so badly distorted
279
00:23:17,134 --> 00:23:18,571
from the large stones
280
00:23:18,701 --> 00:23:20,964
that they all threw
281
00:23:21,095 --> 00:23:23,053
at her face.
282
00:23:23,184 --> 00:23:24,881
[indistinct police radio]
283
00:23:25,012 --> 00:23:26,927
[Hayes] She was tied up
with fishing wire.
284
00:23:27,057 --> 00:23:29,059
Her head was crushed with rocks.
285
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:32,149
She was posed
in a sexual position.
286
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,980
This is something that a male
serial killer does to a woman,
usually.
287
00:23:37,111 --> 00:23:40,593
[camera whining]
288
00:23:40,723 --> 00:23:44,727
Then right after Doreen
Levesque, like within 25 days,
Barbara Raposa is killed.
289
00:23:44,858 --> 00:23:47,904
And those two murders
are not just similar.
290
00:23:48,035 --> 00:23:50,167
They are the same.
291
00:23:53,170 --> 00:23:56,086
[Fitzgerald] Her hands were tied
behind her back also.
292
00:23:56,217 --> 00:23:58,262
And they had smashed her
in the face with a rock
293
00:23:58,393 --> 00:24:00,613
and her face was completely
smashed in.
294
00:24:00,743 --> 00:24:03,572
[director]
295
00:24:06,096 --> 00:24:07,750
Uh, yes.
296
00:24:10,579 --> 00:24:12,755
What always confused me
is that Robin claims
297
00:24:12,886 --> 00:24:15,279
that two different people
committed these murders.
298
00:24:15,410 --> 00:24:18,021
Robin said that you killed
Doreen Levesque,
299
00:24:18,152 --> 00:24:19,980
and she knows that
because Karen told her.
300
00:24:41,262 --> 00:24:44,613
[Day] Then she said that Andy
killed Barbara Raposa.
301
00:24:48,225 --> 00:24:51,620
Andy Maltais told me
a story.
302
00:24:51,751 --> 00:24:55,276
That angels carried him
over Barbara while
she was being murdered.
303
00:24:55,406 --> 00:24:58,627
[director]
304
00:25:08,289 --> 00:25:11,858
Yes, it is. It... it does seem
very strange, doesn't it?
305
00:25:11,988 --> 00:25:16,340
[Macy] You know, Andy, he always
said he wasn't there.
306
00:25:16,471 --> 00:25:19,779
I always thought there was
something about that
that he didn't tell me.
307
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:20,997
But I couldn't
get it out of him.
308
00:25:23,478 --> 00:25:25,872
[Day] So I just wanna
put this out there.
309
00:25:26,002 --> 00:25:29,223
I think Andy Maltais
killed both Doreen and Barbara.
310
00:25:33,923 --> 00:25:35,969
-[Drew]
-Stick with me.
311
00:25:36,099 --> 00:25:39,494
So if you look at the location
of Barbara and Doreen's murder,
312
00:25:39,625 --> 00:25:41,583
they are within miles
of each other.
313
00:25:41,714 --> 00:25:45,195
And Andy Maltais lives
directly in the middle of them.
314
00:25:45,326 --> 00:25:46,806
-[Drew]
-So that could be a coincidence.
315
00:25:46,936 --> 00:25:49,069
But that would be
a huge coincidence
316
00:25:49,199 --> 00:25:53,160
that two young women would be
murdered in the exact same way
317
00:25:53,290 --> 00:25:56,685
within six miles of each other
and both within two miles
of Andy's house.
318
00:25:56,816 --> 00:25:58,469
[Drew]
319
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,037
You met Andy at one point.
Right?
320
00:26:01,168 --> 00:26:05,520
[Drew]
321
00:26:05,651 --> 00:26:07,914
Walpole's the name of a prison?
Right?
322
00:26:08,044 --> 00:26:09,568
[Drew]
323
00:26:14,311 --> 00:26:15,704
Okay.
324
00:26:24,626 --> 00:26:28,412
Okay. Well, get this.
The police knew Andy
had a criminal history
325
00:26:28,543 --> 00:26:31,111
that is very similar
to these murders.
326
00:26:31,241 --> 00:26:32,852
[Drew]
327
00:26:35,071 --> 00:26:39,293
When I had heard that my dad
had raped some woman
328
00:26:39,423 --> 00:26:43,471
and heard that he was a
pedophile and mentally unstable,
I started researching it.
329
00:26:43,602 --> 00:26:47,127
So I says, "Well, I'm gonna dig
a little deeper."
330
00:26:47,257 --> 00:26:48,868
So I called my mother.
331
00:26:52,219 --> 00:26:56,353
She says, "When I got together
with your dad,"
332
00:26:56,484 --> 00:26:59,400
she said, "he was just coming
out of jail."
333
00:26:59,530 --> 00:27:02,272
I said, "Jail? For what?"
334
00:27:02,403 --> 00:27:06,276
And she says, "Well,
he got a charge for rape."
335
00:27:06,407 --> 00:27:09,932
[Fitzgerald] Andy had
a background
of doing things like that.
336
00:27:10,063 --> 00:27:13,544
He was arrested up
in the Freetown State Forest
337
00:27:13,675 --> 00:27:17,287
by the state police
back in 1957
338
00:27:17,418 --> 00:27:21,030
for picking up girls from
a junior high in Fall River
339
00:27:21,161 --> 00:27:23,598
and taking them up
to the, what they call
the forest,
340
00:27:23,729 --> 00:27:26,296
attempting to rape
or raping the girls.
341
00:27:26,427 --> 00:27:30,257
And my former station commander
is one of the people
that arrested him.
342
00:27:30,387 --> 00:27:32,302
He did some house of correction
time on that.
343
00:27:32,433 --> 00:27:36,350
[woman] Back then, things would
slip through the cracks.
344
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,049
We didn't have the computer
databases that we have today.
345
00:27:40,180 --> 00:27:44,314
People moved from one town
to the next. Not just Andy.
346
00:27:44,445 --> 00:27:46,926
And there was really no way
to track them. It just
simply got overlooked.
347
00:27:50,146 --> 00:27:54,020
[Drew]
348
00:27:54,150 --> 00:27:56,326
Yeah, and the crazy thing is
that both Doreen and Barbara
349
00:27:56,457 --> 00:27:58,938
were tied at their hands
and ankles
350
00:27:59,068 --> 00:28:01,418
with what they called
a white, twisted twine.
351
00:28:01,549 --> 00:28:05,031
And when you look into it more,
it was a white fishing line.
352
00:28:05,161 --> 00:28:08,251
And not only is it the same
at both murder scenes,
353
00:28:08,382 --> 00:28:10,340
but Andy had that in the trunk
of his car when
they searched it.
354
00:28:10,471 --> 00:28:12,081
[Drew]
355
00:28:15,171 --> 00:28:18,131
[Silvia] Andy Maltais,
he had a bag of tricks
356
00:28:18,261 --> 00:28:20,350
that were all sexual items
that he used--
357
00:28:20,481 --> 00:28:23,092
vibrators and rope
and handcuffs.
358
00:28:23,223 --> 00:28:26,095
[indistinct police
radio chatter]
359
00:28:28,489 --> 00:28:30,752
And I spoke to one
of his victims,
360
00:28:30,883 --> 00:28:33,233
and she said that Andy would
do the same thing to her.
361
00:28:39,369 --> 00:28:43,069
Andy had a freshwater fishing
pole. I remember that.
362
00:28:43,199 --> 00:28:48,030
He had rope in his trunk
of his car,
with his sicko sex toys.
363
00:28:53,383 --> 00:28:55,255
He would use rope on me.
364
00:28:55,385 --> 00:28:58,998
Tie me up,
my wrists to my ankles.
365
00:28:59,128 --> 00:29:02,001
I was petrified.
I was petrified.
366
00:29:06,701 --> 00:29:09,399
So Andy killing both Doreen
and Barbara makes sense.
367
00:29:09,530 --> 00:29:13,795
Especially considering that he
was the one who was originally
368
00:29:13,926 --> 00:29:16,755
suggesting that you were
the killer of Doreen Levesque.
369
00:29:18,539 --> 00:29:20,149
[Drew]
370
00:29:22,151 --> 00:29:25,546
[Fitzgerald] Andy Maltais...
[sighs]
371
00:29:25,676 --> 00:29:30,203
He knew a state police officer
that I had worked with.
372
00:29:30,333 --> 00:29:32,683
And he went
to the state police officer
373
00:29:32,814 --> 00:29:36,383
and said he knew something
about the Levesque murder.
374
00:29:36,513 --> 00:29:38,864
So I met him one day.
375
00:29:38,994 --> 00:29:42,389
We snuck him into the
state police barracks in
Dartmouth and talked to him.
376
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:44,565
And when he got there he said,
"Well, I don't really
know anything."
377
00:29:44,695 --> 00:29:47,220
[director]
378
00:29:48,656 --> 00:29:52,094
Well, yes...
379
00:29:52,225 --> 00:29:55,489
But then he brought Robin
and Karen Marsden in.
380
00:29:55,619 --> 00:29:59,798
they came out with the story
about Carl Drew having done it.
381
00:30:05,238 --> 00:30:09,546
Andy associated
with all those girls--
382
00:30:09,677 --> 00:30:13,550
Barbara, Robin, Karen Marsden.
383
00:30:13,681 --> 00:30:15,204
I never really understood that.
384
00:30:20,035 --> 00:30:23,865
So if Andy killed Doreen
and Barbara, that still
leaves us with Karen Marsden.
385
00:30:23,996 --> 00:30:25,736
[Drew]
386
00:30:25,867 --> 00:30:28,304
[Day] And the thing about Karen
is that she had told
387
00:30:28,435 --> 00:30:32,613
lots of people that she
witnessed the first murder.
388
00:30:32,743 --> 00:30:34,093
[Drew]
389
00:30:39,663 --> 00:30:40,577
[man]
390
00:30:40,708 --> 00:30:43,406
[Fletcher]
391
00:30:43,537 --> 00:30:45,191
[man]
392
00:30:45,321 --> 00:30:47,280
-[Fletcher]
-[man]
393
00:30:49,238 --> 00:30:52,024
[Carey]
394
00:31:06,777 --> 00:31:09,432
So in that case, Karen saw Andy
kill Doreen Levesque
395
00:31:09,563 --> 00:31:12,305
and could potentially testify
against him.
396
00:31:12,435 --> 00:31:15,917
And there's actually a record
to support that.
397
00:31:16,048 --> 00:31:19,181
Karen's grandmother actually
told the Fall River police
398
00:31:19,312 --> 00:31:23,577
that Andy had threatened Karen
before she was killed.
399
00:31:23,707 --> 00:31:29,235
Andy told her that he thought
he might be arrested
for the murder of Barbara.
400
00:31:29,365 --> 00:31:32,629
And that if he was, he felt
Karen's safety was in jeopardy.
401
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,198
So Andy had threatened
Karen's grandmother
402
00:31:36,329 --> 00:31:38,766
that Karen might be hurt
if he was arrested.
403
00:31:38,897 --> 00:31:41,290
And the crazy part is that's
exactly what happened.
404
00:31:41,421 --> 00:31:42,552
[Drew]
405
00:31:49,646 --> 00:31:52,519
[Day] So the police knew
that Andy and Karen
had this relationship
406
00:31:52,649 --> 00:31:55,609
and that Andy had threatened
Karen, but they never
investigated.
407
00:31:55,739 --> 00:32:00,962
They thought Andy had an alibi.
They thought Andy was in jail
at the time of Karen's murder.
408
00:32:01,093 --> 00:32:05,401
But in Massachusetts at the
time, if you were arrested
you had to be arraigned
409
00:32:05,532 --> 00:32:10,711
within 24 hours,
and Andy's lawyer
had arranged for bail.
410
00:32:10,841 --> 00:32:13,627
[Drew]
411
00:32:13,757 --> 00:32:18,545
[Macy] The first time I met
Andy, he was already in court.
412
00:32:18,675 --> 00:32:22,157
He was in the prisoners' area.
So I went over.
I told him who I was.
413
00:32:22,288 --> 00:32:24,464
Told him to be quiet.
414
00:32:24,594 --> 00:32:30,905
Uh, and, um, I told him
we either arrange for bail,
415
00:32:31,036 --> 00:32:34,909
or I'd have to go see him
at the jail.
416
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,564
But whatever happened,
just to be quiet.
417
00:32:37,694 --> 00:32:40,219
And, um, he was arraigned.
418
00:32:40,349 --> 00:32:44,266
And I did arrange
for bail for him.
419
00:32:49,141 --> 00:32:50,969
[Day] I even called
the Fall River District Court,
420
00:32:51,099 --> 00:32:52,971
and they looked up Andy's
records for me,
421
00:32:53,101 --> 00:32:56,452
and they confirmed that Andy
was released on February 8th,
422
00:32:56,583 --> 00:32:58,237
hours before the murder
of Karen Marsden.
423
00:33:00,717 --> 00:33:03,111
Hello?
424
00:33:03,242 --> 00:33:04,504
[Drew]
425
00:33:07,028 --> 00:33:10,162
[woman] Andy Maltais,
his general demeanor
426
00:33:10,292 --> 00:33:14,253
was just, um...
427
00:33:14,383 --> 00:33:17,778
almost accepting
of his own behavior.
428
00:33:17,908 --> 00:33:20,520
You know, didn't...
he didn't see the world
the way you and I do.
429
00:33:23,566 --> 00:33:26,439
[Day] When you look
at the autopsy reports
for all three women,
430
00:33:26,569 --> 00:33:30,486
even though they never
found Karen's body,
they found her skull,
431
00:33:30,617 --> 00:33:33,794
and on Karen's skull
there was a crush injury.
432
00:33:33,924 --> 00:33:37,841
Essentially, her skull
was crushed kind of right
on her left forehead.
433
00:33:37,972 --> 00:33:41,497
Which is exactly the same
as the other two murders.
434
00:33:41,628 --> 00:33:45,762
All three women died
of a skull fracture
with a large, blunt object.
435
00:33:45,893 --> 00:33:48,548
So as far as we know,
Karen is killed in the exact
same way as Doreen,
436
00:33:48,678 --> 00:33:50,767
the exact same way as Barbara,
437
00:33:50,898 --> 00:33:54,945
and Andy has a motive to kill
her and no alibi for her murder.
438
00:33:55,076 --> 00:33:57,644
-[Drew]
-So that still leaves us
with the witness on the roof
439
00:33:57,774 --> 00:33:59,776
of Harbor Terrace.
440
00:34:01,561 --> 00:34:04,042
[director]
441
00:34:08,655 --> 00:34:10,700
Yes. He was not there.
442
00:34:13,747 --> 00:34:16,097
Hundred percent sure
he was not on that roof.
443
00:34:19,927 --> 00:34:22,930
I know for a fact that Carl
Davis and Sonny was on the roof.
444
00:34:23,061 --> 00:34:26,325
Carl Davis was holding somebody.
445
00:34:26,455 --> 00:34:27,543
And...
446
00:34:29,763 --> 00:34:32,070
I'm pretty sure that...
that was Robin.
447
00:34:37,684 --> 00:34:39,816
I mean, there's a lot of
possibilities there, right?
448
00:34:39,947 --> 00:34:43,429
Maybe the witness got the day
wrong. Maybe he's off by a year.
449
00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:45,822
Maybe he was four, not five.
450
00:34:45,953 --> 00:34:48,608
He wasn't even 100 percent sure
that Robin was on the roof.
451
00:34:48,738 --> 00:34:52,351
He said he probably... he said
it was probably Robin.
452
00:34:52,481 --> 00:34:55,136
-[Drew]
-You'd met Carl Davis, right?
453
00:34:55,267 --> 00:34:57,225
[Drew]
454
00:35:01,142 --> 00:35:03,797
Did you know he was involved
with Robin or Karen or Andy?
455
00:35:03,927 --> 00:35:06,234
[Drew]
456
00:35:15,722 --> 00:35:19,595
So I've been talking to Robin,
um, through email.
457
00:35:19,726 --> 00:35:22,990
-[Drew]
-She gets a limited amount
of email at the prison.
458
00:35:23,121 --> 00:35:27,603
And I've really, really been
pushing her to let me
come back in
459
00:35:27,734 --> 00:35:30,084
and interview her on camera,
and she's agreed.
460
00:35:30,215 --> 00:35:31,912
-[Drew]
-I have not told her all this.
461
00:35:32,042 --> 00:35:34,001
I have not told her
about the witness.
462
00:35:34,132 --> 00:35:36,046
I've not told her all this stuff
about Andy.
463
00:35:36,177 --> 00:35:38,875
I don't even know if she knows
about Andy's criminal history.
464
00:35:39,006 --> 00:35:41,922
-[Drew]
-I want to tell her in person
465
00:35:42,052 --> 00:35:45,055
and give her a chance
to either explain herself
466
00:35:45,186 --> 00:35:48,015
or maybe fill in something else
that we're missing.
467
00:35:48,146 --> 00:35:52,106
Um, she knew Andy the best
out of anyone, unfortunately.
468
00:35:52,237 --> 00:35:54,456
-[Drew]
-So I'm gonna fly to Boston
469
00:35:54,587 --> 00:35:56,458
-and go back into the prison...
-[Drew]
470
00:35:56,589 --> 00:35:59,461
...and interview her
on camera this time.
471
00:35:59,592 --> 00:36:01,159
[automated voice]
You have one minute left.
472
00:36:01,289 --> 00:36:04,118
But either way, I mean,
to me, I see all this
473
00:36:04,249 --> 00:36:07,948
as just more proof
of your innocence.
474
00:36:08,078 --> 00:36:10,864
And so I think we need
to get this to someone.
475
00:36:10,994 --> 00:36:14,607
-[Drew]
-Okay. Good.
476
00:36:14,737 --> 00:36:17,175
-[Drew]
-Thanks, man. Talk to you soon.
477
00:36:24,617 --> 00:36:27,489
♪
478
00:36:36,803 --> 00:36:39,240
[indistinct chatter]
479
00:36:42,156 --> 00:36:43,723
[Day] There she is.
480
00:36:49,946 --> 00:36:51,905
-Am I turned on?
-[man] You are.
481
00:36:52,035 --> 00:36:54,734
-[Day] Okay.
-So have you been here
for a while?
482
00:36:54,864 --> 00:36:57,911
[Day] Well, we got here about
noon, so about two hours.
483
00:36:58,041 --> 00:37:00,218
-[sighs]
-Yeah. Ready?
484
00:37:02,350 --> 00:37:05,701
So how did you meet Andy
in the first place?
485
00:37:05,832 --> 00:37:09,705
Um, Andy gave me a ride one day
during a snowstorm.
486
00:37:09,836 --> 00:37:11,968
That's how I met him.
487
00:37:12,099 --> 00:37:14,841
-[Day] What happened?
-Um...
488
00:37:14,971 --> 00:37:18,366
If we could, um...
489
00:37:20,368 --> 00:37:22,805
just move from that,
I would appreciate it.
490
00:37:24,024 --> 00:37:27,680
Yeah.
491
00:37:27,810 --> 00:37:31,597
[Day] Did you know that Andy
had been to prison
before he met you?
492
00:37:31,727 --> 00:37:34,077
[laughs] What? Okay.
493
00:37:34,208 --> 00:37:39,126
I never heard that before
until this very moment.
494
00:37:39,257 --> 00:37:42,042
[Day] Did you ever suspect
that he was involved
in the Doreen Levesque...?
495
00:37:42,172 --> 00:37:45,698
-No.
-'Cause there are police reports
where you
496
00:37:45,828 --> 00:37:49,223
talk about Andy being
with Doreen Levesque
497
00:37:49,354 --> 00:37:53,271
and even, um, tell the police
that you think Andy killed
Doreen Levesque.
498
00:37:58,711 --> 00:38:01,801
-Do you remember that?
-I may have felt that way.
499
00:38:01,931 --> 00:38:06,675
Um, I think that period of time
involved a lot of, uh,
500
00:38:06,806 --> 00:38:08,938
odd things, a lot
of strange things.
501
00:38:09,069 --> 00:38:13,421
Um... uh...
502
00:38:13,552 --> 00:38:18,861
I did my best to sort out
what was real and what
was scare tactics, I guess.
503
00:38:20,776 --> 00:38:22,735
The specifics and details
504
00:38:22,865 --> 00:38:25,825
about different conversations
and things.
505
00:38:25,955 --> 00:38:29,219
Uh, sorry, it was 40 years ago.
506
00:38:29,350 --> 00:38:33,702
Um, kind of hard
to keep track of.
507
00:38:33,833 --> 00:38:38,968
[Day] It looks to me like he
probably killed Doreen Levesque.
508
00:38:39,099 --> 00:38:41,667
Possible. Yes.
509
00:38:41,797 --> 00:38:45,758
The case with Barbara
510
00:38:45,888 --> 00:38:48,978
and Doreen, they are both
extremely similar.
511
00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:51,285
When Barbara was missing,
512
00:38:51,416 --> 00:38:54,897
um, he wanted to know
if I had seen her
513
00:38:55,028 --> 00:38:58,597
and, uh, he insisted
she was missing
514
00:38:58,727 --> 00:39:00,555
and something bad happened
to her.
515
00:39:00,686 --> 00:39:02,992
Then he told me about the dream.
516
00:39:03,123 --> 00:39:06,126
He said she was dead,
she was tied up,
517
00:39:06,256 --> 00:39:07,997
she was bludgeoned to death
with a rock.
518
00:39:08,128 --> 00:39:10,652
He knew everything
before they found her.
519
00:39:10,783 --> 00:39:12,001
Everything.
520
00:39:16,005 --> 00:39:18,181
[Day] One of the first times
you had any contact with police
521
00:39:18,312 --> 00:39:21,750
was when Andy took you
and Karen in together, right?
522
00:39:21,881 --> 00:39:26,189
Yes. I know that I thought
we were going for one reason,
523
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,106
and it was really
something else.
It was very odd.
524
00:39:30,237 --> 00:39:33,371
It was very odd. And I do not
remember the specifics.
525
00:39:33,501 --> 00:39:35,938
[Day] Andy said, "If I'm
arrested, something's going
to happen to Karen."
526
00:39:37,940 --> 00:39:40,247
Really?
527
00:39:40,378 --> 00:39:43,555
[Day] What was Andy's
relationship to Karen?
528
00:39:43,685 --> 00:39:46,035
I don't know.
529
00:39:46,166 --> 00:39:48,168
I know that when I was
in the hospital,
530
00:39:48,298 --> 00:39:51,432
um, one of the many times
I was in the hospital,
531
00:39:51,563 --> 00:39:55,218
Andy came in with Karen,
or Karen came in with Andy.
532
00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:59,832
And I was curious how they...
what they were doing together.
533
00:39:59,962 --> 00:40:02,269
And she said, "Oh, he just
gave me a ride."
534
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:07,361
Um, I don't know where they met.
I don't know any of that.
535
00:40:07,492 --> 00:40:10,669
[Day] Did you ever confide
in Karen about what had happened
with Andy?
536
00:40:10,799 --> 00:40:13,193
-Yes.
-What was her reaction?
537
00:40:13,323 --> 00:40:15,413
-Um, I really don't recall.
-Yeah.
538
00:40:15,543 --> 00:40:17,937
I know that we, um,
we had a few discussions.
539
00:40:26,380 --> 00:40:30,950
I remember seeing him
in a one-piece pajama set.
540
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,691
He was knee high
to a grasshopper.
541
00:40:32,821 --> 00:40:35,476
[Day] I talked to him
and he said that
542
00:40:35,607 --> 00:40:40,394
he was on the roof
of Harbor Terrace
and saw you arguing.
543
00:40:40,525 --> 00:40:46,095
You, Karen, and Sonny,
and Carl Davis.
544
00:40:46,226 --> 00:40:49,447
-I have a question,
before you go any further.
-Yeah, yeah.
545
00:40:49,577 --> 00:40:56,149
His age now versus his age
in February of 1980,
546
00:40:56,279 --> 00:40:58,891
is he old enough
to be up on a roof?
547
00:40:59,021 --> 00:41:00,066
[Day] He would have been
extremely young.
548
00:41:00,196 --> 00:41:02,416
It didn't happen.
549
00:41:02,547 --> 00:41:04,897
Um, which is why
I just asked you that.
550
00:41:05,027 --> 00:41:06,899
I remember him
being really small.
551
00:41:07,029 --> 00:41:08,770
That's why I asked you
how old he was.
552
00:41:08,901 --> 00:41:11,860
Um, I've never been
on the roof of Harbor Terrace.
553
00:41:11,991 --> 00:41:14,341
So...
554
00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:18,127
I've been to-- I was at Sonny's
at 5 Harbor Terrace.
555
00:41:18,258 --> 00:41:22,349
Uh, across the next building
down, Carol Fletcher
lived there.
556
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,048
Somebody sold me weed once
on the second floor
of that building.
557
00:41:26,179 --> 00:41:29,312
And a woman by the name of Gail
lived in the last building.
558
00:41:29,443 --> 00:41:31,489
That's what I know
about Harbor Terrace.
559
00:41:31,619 --> 00:41:35,971
I'm not into closets
and rooftops and basements.
560
00:41:36,102 --> 00:41:39,453
I don't know anything
about that. I'm sorry.
561
00:41:39,584 --> 00:41:42,108
I told a lot of stories
a long time ago.
562
00:41:42,238 --> 00:41:46,765
And I don't tell stories
anymore.
563
00:41:46,895 --> 00:41:49,811
Some people continue
to tell stories.
564
00:41:49,942 --> 00:41:52,031
I don't know why.
I don't know what the cause is.
565
00:41:52,161 --> 00:41:54,512
I don't know if they believe
their own lies. I don't know.
566
00:41:54,642 --> 00:41:58,994
Um, but I do know
that I'm telling the truth.
567
00:41:59,125 --> 00:42:03,346
Um, and I'm sorry if anyone
tries to taint that.
568
00:42:03,477 --> 00:42:06,828
[Day] Hm. Andy was actually
arraigned on February 8th.
569
00:42:06,959 --> 00:42:10,266
And he was released hours
before Karen's murder.
570
00:42:10,397 --> 00:42:12,965
I wasn't aware of that neither.
571
00:42:13,095 --> 00:42:15,141
He was arrested.
572
00:42:15,271 --> 00:42:16,446
[Day] I'm telling you all this
'cause I'm wondering
573
00:42:16,577 --> 00:42:18,448
if it triggers anything
in your memory?
574
00:42:18,579 --> 00:42:20,538
Like, "Wait a sec.
Now I do remember?"
575
00:42:20,668 --> 00:42:23,192
No, you're actually blowing my
mind with all this information.
576
00:42:23,323 --> 00:42:26,935
Um, I did not...
577
00:42:27,066 --> 00:42:30,025
know any of it and, uh,
wasn't aware of it, certainly.
578
00:42:30,156 --> 00:42:33,463
But I didn't...
never even considered it.
579
00:42:33,594 --> 00:42:35,030
[Day] What do you think now?
Do you think it's possible?
580
00:42:35,161 --> 00:42:38,207
I think that, um...
581
00:42:38,338 --> 00:42:41,036
Do I think it's possible?
Anything's possible.
582
00:42:41,167 --> 00:42:42,560
Anything at all is possible.
583
00:42:42,690 --> 00:42:46,868
[Day] It seems like
he had so little insight
584
00:42:46,999 --> 00:42:51,046
into what he was doing
that he'd almost traumatized you
585
00:42:51,177 --> 00:42:54,659
to make you feel like you were
complicit in what he was doing.
586
00:42:54,789 --> 00:42:57,052
-Right.
-You know, is that...
you think that's accurate?
587
00:42:57,183 --> 00:42:59,577
Um, I absolutely do.
588
00:42:59,707 --> 00:43:04,364
Before he passed,
he sent me a letter from prison.
589
00:43:04,494 --> 00:43:08,716
And he said he only tried
to make a woman out of me.
590
00:43:08,847 --> 00:43:12,590
I think that for someone
to say that about
an 11-year-old, 12-year-old...
591
00:43:15,157 --> 00:43:18,378
You know, he had a rifle
in the trunk of the car.
592
00:43:18,508 --> 00:43:21,468
And he took it out one day
and shot at my feet.
593
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:24,819
And initially I remember feeling
like really afraid.
594
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:26,081
And he was like, "Ah,
I was only kidding."
595
00:43:26,212 --> 00:43:27,953
I've never forgotten that.
596
00:43:28,083 --> 00:43:31,957
Uh, and I believe I told
the police about that.
597
00:43:32,087 --> 00:43:35,264
Um, and it just didn't matter.
598
00:43:35,395 --> 00:43:38,703
None of that mattered.
599
00:43:38,833 --> 00:43:41,401
And now you're telling me,
"Oh, yeah. No,
he does that stuff."
600
00:43:41,531 --> 00:43:43,272
What?
601
00:43:43,403 --> 00:43:45,840
That's crazy.
602
00:43:45,971 --> 00:43:48,103
Why didn't he ever kill me?
603
00:43:48,234 --> 00:43:50,323
That is so weird.
604
00:43:50,453 --> 00:43:52,238
[Day] When was the last time
you saw Karen?
605
00:43:52,368 --> 00:43:56,111
February 8th.
606
00:43:56,242 --> 00:44:01,900
Uh... we parted ways
after leaving her son's
607
00:44:02,030 --> 00:44:04,424
foster parents' house.
[sniffles]
608
00:44:04,554 --> 00:44:06,948
-[Day] And that was it?
-Never saw her again.
609
00:44:07,079 --> 00:44:10,038
-[Day] Yeah.
-Because I never saw her
again...
610
00:44:10,169 --> 00:44:12,998
after going to Sonny's house,
611
00:44:13,128 --> 00:44:16,131
that still haunts me.
612
00:44:16,262 --> 00:44:18,046
A lot.
613
00:44:23,051 --> 00:44:25,793
♪
614
00:44:39,328 --> 00:44:42,505
[McPhee] That's what's so
complicated about this entire,
615
00:44:42,636 --> 00:44:46,074
you know, history of the
Fall River satanic cult murders.
616
00:44:46,205 --> 00:44:48,686
I mean,
who are you gonna believe?
617
00:44:54,387 --> 00:44:58,130
[Murphy] There may be things
that I don't wanna talk about,
but that's for personal reasons.
618
00:44:58,260 --> 00:45:01,046
Not because I have anything
really to hide.
619
00:45:01,176 --> 00:45:04,919
Um... but I...
620
00:45:05,050 --> 00:45:07,052
I've been telling the truth
for a long time.
621
00:45:07,182 --> 00:45:08,836
It's not sensational.
622
00:45:14,189 --> 00:45:17,715
[Drew] You know, they let
this girl, Robin Murphy,
623
00:45:17,845 --> 00:45:21,501
manipulate them
for her own gain.
You know what I mean?
624
00:45:21,631 --> 00:45:25,244
Like I said, and I want that
story out there that,
you know what I mean?
625
00:45:25,374 --> 00:45:29,422
By her own volition, she
admitted that she lied
and she made this stuff all up.
626
00:45:36,385 --> 00:45:39,258
[McPhee] The DA acquiesced
627
00:45:39,388 --> 00:45:42,304
to the need for public closure
628
00:45:42,435 --> 00:45:45,307
and didn't necessarily have the
interest of justice at heart.
629
00:45:49,703 --> 00:45:52,488
When we find that injustice
has been done,
630
00:45:52,619 --> 00:45:55,361
somebody's been wrongly accused,
I think we have
to commit ourselves
631
00:45:55,491 --> 00:45:58,103
a thousand percent to trying
to right that wrong,
632
00:45:58,233 --> 00:46:00,975
to undo the damage,
to restore reputations,
633
00:46:01,106 --> 00:46:03,456
to make things whole again.
634
00:46:12,291 --> 00:46:15,294
♪
635
00:47:01,819 --> 00:47:06,867
At the present moment, uh,
we have 43 domestic cases
of the coronavirus.
636
00:47:06,998 --> 00:47:10,305
Six Americans have lost their
life to the coronavirus.
637
00:47:10,436 --> 00:47:13,787
And on behalf of the president
and all of the American people,
638
00:47:13,918 --> 00:47:15,615
we extend our
deepest condolences.
639
00:47:15,745 --> 00:47:18,313
Because of the president's
strong leadership
640
00:47:18,444 --> 00:47:20,838
and all of the hard work that
our public health professionals
have done
641
00:47:20,968 --> 00:47:24,015
at the local, the state,
the federal level,
642
00:47:24,145 --> 00:47:28,846
the immediate risk to any
individual American has been
and does continue to be low.
643
00:47:40,466 --> 00:47:44,470
[Day] What's going on?
Are you locked down or...?
644
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,342
[Drew on phone] Yeah,
they only let us out
for a half hour a day.
645
00:47:47,473 --> 00:47:49,475
You know, so... yeah.
646
00:48:23,161 --> 00:48:29,515
We've already
seen 126,000 deaths with
infection rates rising rapidly.
647
00:48:29,645 --> 00:48:32,039
-[indistinct chatter]
-[monitor beeping]
648
00:48:34,694 --> 00:48:36,914
♪
649
00:48:44,922 --> 00:48:48,055
It's going to disappear.
One day, it's like a miracle.
It will disappear.
650
00:49:00,372 --> 00:49:01,373
[chuckles]
651
00:49:13,646 --> 00:49:15,517
[Day]
652
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,232
♪
653
00:49:45,025 --> 00:49:50,465
So did Carl Drew
belong in prison for what he did
as a pimp? Absolutely.
654
00:49:50,596 --> 00:49:54,600
Does he belong in prison
on the word of a liar
with no physical evidence?
655
00:49:54,730 --> 00:49:58,952
Maybe. But at the very least,
we should be giving him
an opportunity
656
00:49:59,083 --> 00:50:03,696
to be retried with a fair trial
and an adequate counsel.
657
00:50:06,525 --> 00:50:08,962
[Silvia] No question in my mind
that he is not innocent.
658
00:50:09,093 --> 00:50:11,356
He committed the crimes.
He was present.
659
00:50:11,486 --> 00:50:12,705
He committed the crimes.
660
00:50:12,835 --> 00:50:14,576
I believe justice was served.
661
00:50:33,595 --> 00:50:37,034
♪
662
00:50:45,868 --> 00:50:49,568
My first impression
was that the case, um,
663
00:50:49,698 --> 00:50:51,613
at trial appeared to be a mess.
664
00:50:53,746 --> 00:50:55,922
And then as we looked
into more evidence,
665
00:50:56,053 --> 00:50:59,665
it seemed to raise a lot of red
flags and a lot of questions.
666
00:50:59,795 --> 00:51:03,930
I think that the evidence
that Carl has uncovered
667
00:51:04,061 --> 00:51:07,325
over the past 30-plus years
668
00:51:07,455 --> 00:51:11,503
and that this documentary
has uncovered,
669
00:51:11,633 --> 00:51:14,897
uh, is compelling
and significant evidence
670
00:51:15,028 --> 00:51:17,465
that, um, Carl did not
commit this crime.
671
00:51:20,816 --> 00:51:23,515
[McPhee] I think that it's
worthy to take a look
at this case
672
00:51:23,645 --> 00:51:27,736
and to raise some real questions
about how something like this
673
00:51:27,867 --> 00:51:29,782
could be prosecuted
in the manner that it was.
674
00:51:29,912 --> 00:51:33,438
[Grant] Legally, Carl is
in a tricky situation
675
00:51:33,568 --> 00:51:37,790
because he has to find more
evidence and new evidence
676
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,359
and evidence that's different
than what was presented
in the motion in 2004.
677
00:51:44,362 --> 00:51:47,669
But I think that there is
evidence that has been uncovered
that is different.
678
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:53,545
Robin Murphy's statement
that she also, uh,
679
00:51:53,675 --> 00:51:55,895
was told on the day of trial
by the prosecutor
680
00:51:56,025 --> 00:51:58,637
that she needed to testify
to what they agreed to,
681
00:51:58,767 --> 00:52:00,726
even after she was trying
to tell them that she lied,
682
00:52:00,856 --> 00:52:03,424
I think is very compelling.
683
00:52:32,801 --> 00:52:36,196
I'm concerned about getting
a judge to take it seriously.
684
00:52:36,327 --> 00:52:40,157
Um, being that judge had already
discredited Robin Murphy.
685
00:52:40,287 --> 00:52:44,291
But on top of that, from the...
what this documentary
has uncovered,
686
00:52:44,422 --> 00:52:50,515
um, is that in the police's
investigation into
the Barbara Raposa murder,
687
00:52:50,645 --> 00:52:54,649
against Andre Maltais,
688
00:52:54,780 --> 00:52:57,957
the police had arrested
Andre Maltais in the past,
689
00:52:58,087 --> 00:53:03,919
um, for committing crimes
with very similar MO,
690
00:53:04,050 --> 00:53:08,576
very similar method to the way
that Doreen Levesque was killed.
691
00:53:12,885 --> 00:53:17,063
This information about Andre
Maltais was never turned over
to Carl or his defense team.
692
00:53:17,194 --> 00:53:21,763
Before a person is convicted,
the defense is supposed
to receive all evidence
693
00:53:21,894 --> 00:53:24,853
that is both against them
and evidence that may show that
they didn't commit the crime.
694
00:53:24,984 --> 00:53:27,900
And when evidence
isn't turned over,
695
00:53:28,030 --> 00:53:33,558
the law, uh, essentially
supports Carl saying,
696
00:53:33,688 --> 00:53:35,516
"How was I supposed to know
that it existed?"
697
00:53:38,693 --> 00:53:41,043
Carl Drew, I think it's hard
for him to dispute
698
00:53:41,174 --> 00:53:44,917
that he was a pimp
who prostituted little girls.
699
00:53:45,047 --> 00:53:48,747
However, the people who belong
in prison have to be put there
in the correct way
700
00:53:48,877 --> 00:53:49,878
according to the rule of law.
701
00:53:52,316 --> 00:53:54,013
[Grant] To overturn
his conviction,
702
00:53:54,143 --> 00:53:56,537
I have to show that all
of this information
703
00:53:56,668 --> 00:53:59,366
might have made a difference
to the jury.
704
00:53:59,497 --> 00:54:02,282
That it would have been
a significant factor
as they tried to determine,
705
00:54:02,413 --> 00:54:05,111
"Did Carl commit this crime
or did someone else?"
706
00:54:05,242 --> 00:54:11,770
One big thing that Carl was
lacking was significant evidence
of a third-party culprit,
707
00:54:11,900 --> 00:54:14,294
of the other person who
may have actually killed her.
708
00:54:14,425 --> 00:54:17,993
And it seems clear from what
the documentary has uncovered
709
00:54:18,124 --> 00:54:20,082
that this information
about Andre Maltais,
710
00:54:20,213 --> 00:54:23,782
that might be a basis
to get Carl back into court
711
00:54:23,912 --> 00:54:25,523
and to overturn his convictions.
712
00:54:31,659 --> 00:54:34,836
We need to file a motion
for a new trial.
713
00:54:34,967 --> 00:54:38,710
♪
714
00:54:43,192 --> 00:54:46,457
♪
715
00:55:27,498 --> 00:55:30,936
[woman] Robin's history of
trauma and also going to prison
716
00:55:31,066 --> 00:55:36,768
at 17, 18 years old
and serving most of her life
in confinement,
717
00:55:36,898 --> 00:55:39,771
you know, is traumatic
in and of itself.
718
00:55:39,901 --> 00:55:43,818
So it's trauma after trauma
after trauma
and a coping mechanism,
719
00:55:43,949 --> 00:55:48,475
you know, to deal
with all of that, you know,
720
00:55:48,606 --> 00:55:52,523
I think she doesn't trust people
so therefore she comes off
as untrustworthy,
721
00:55:52,653 --> 00:55:54,307
um, to the parole board.
722
00:55:54,438 --> 00:55:58,529
[man] You've woven this web
of deceit
723
00:55:58,659 --> 00:56:02,620
and storytelling that...
724
00:56:02,750 --> 00:56:08,147
I can't make heads or tails
of what...
725
00:56:08,277 --> 00:56:13,021
even the surface
of the truth is in this case.
726
00:56:13,152 --> 00:56:16,982
♪
727
00:56:31,257 --> 00:56:33,781
[Kenyon] I think it's evident
that she was an abuse victim,
728
00:56:33,912 --> 00:56:36,044
um, by multiple people.
729
00:56:36,175 --> 00:56:38,177
You know, she may
have had street smarts,
730
00:56:38,307 --> 00:56:41,136
but that doesn't mean
that she had common sense
731
00:56:41,267 --> 00:56:44,270
or that she had the emotional
maturity to deal with, you know,
732
00:56:44,401 --> 00:56:46,403
what was going on around her.
733
00:56:49,275 --> 00:56:51,712
I think she deserves re-parole.
734
00:56:51,843 --> 00:56:54,889
♪
735
00:57:05,030 --> 00:57:06,988
[McPhee] Here's what's so sad
about this case.
736
00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:09,904
What you absolutely know
for a fact
737
00:57:10,035 --> 00:57:13,691
is that you had these men
who were victimizing
teenage girls.
738
00:57:15,388 --> 00:57:17,999
I mean, that alone should have
739
00:57:18,130 --> 00:57:22,395
provoked some
sort of investigation.
740
00:57:22,526 --> 00:57:25,746
These were all girls that should
have been offered some sort
of protection.
741
00:57:27,313 --> 00:57:29,924
♪
742
00:57:44,025 --> 00:57:47,289
[Hayes] I think what you're
doing and what your
team's doing here
743
00:57:47,420 --> 00:57:51,424
is the only way,
is to shed some light onto it.
744
00:57:51,555 --> 00:57:54,427
Maybe, you know,
there's some people
745
00:57:54,558 --> 00:57:57,169
who were former
district attorneys
746
00:57:57,299 --> 00:58:01,260
who, you know,
feel bad about it.
747
00:58:01,390 --> 00:58:04,219
Maybe there are some people
who worked on the case
748
00:58:04,350 --> 00:58:06,439
who would like
to make things right.
749
00:58:06,570 --> 00:58:10,138
And if 100,000 people or so
see this,
750
00:58:10,269 --> 00:58:13,272
or people in Fall River realize
that, hey,
751
00:58:13,402 --> 00:58:16,144
"I think it warrants an
investigation into it.
752
00:58:16,275 --> 00:58:18,407
Go ahead, let's test the shit.
Why not?"
753
00:58:18,538 --> 00:58:22,107
Why not look up the cases,
do due diligence?
754
00:58:22,237 --> 00:58:26,633
And, uh, just get to the truth
of the situation.
755
00:58:52,790 --> 00:58:54,661
♪