1
00:00:36,688 --> 00:00:38,690
They had
a series of murders
2
00:00:38,821 --> 00:00:42,042
during a satanic ritual
in the woods.
3
00:00:46,655 --> 00:00:49,353
Carl Drew was initially charged
with two murders.
4
00:00:49,484 --> 00:00:53,488
That of Doreen Levesque
and Karen Marsden.
5
00:01:03,106 --> 00:01:07,676
There's no physical evidence
at all tying Carl Drew
to these crimes.
6
00:01:07,806 --> 00:01:09,591
That night that she was supposed
to have been killed,
7
00:01:09,721 --> 00:01:12,289
I was
at my stepmother's wedding.
8
00:01:12,420 --> 00:01:15,205
I had photos of me there.
9
00:01:17,077 --> 00:01:19,818
Robin was also indicted
for murder.
10
00:01:19,949 --> 00:01:22,473
She turned state's evidence.
11
00:01:31,656 --> 00:01:34,790
Robin was only 17 years old
at the time.
12
00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,749
Robin was caught in the middle
of all of this.
13
00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,926
The bottom line
is that Carl was a pimp,
14
00:01:41,057 --> 00:01:44,713
and Robin Murphy,
she was trying to be a pimp,
15
00:01:44,843 --> 00:01:48,847
at this time,
in the same area as Carl.
16
00:01:48,978 --> 00:01:53,156
Robin wanted control. She didn't
want to be a prostitute.
17
00:01:53,287 --> 00:01:56,594
Robin could eat pizza
and kill you right after that.
18
00:01:56,725 --> 00:02:02,557
You know, Robin is the one
who was the main character
in putting him away.
19
00:02:02,687 --> 00:02:05,908
Robin Murphy came before
the state parole board
20
00:02:06,038 --> 00:02:09,520
and admitted to them
that she had lied.
21
00:02:12,132 --> 00:02:14,003
Robin masterminded all of this.
22
00:02:14,134 --> 00:02:19,878
You know, you have
to give credit to Robin Murphy.
23
00:02:20,009 --> 00:02:23,012
The only thing you can say
is that she's a lot smarter
24
00:02:23,143 --> 00:02:25,319
than all the fucking people
involved in the case.
25
00:02:42,510 --> 00:02:44,555
And now I'm just not
gonna lie anymore.
26
00:04:14,428 --> 00:04:18,127
The stories I told,
I wanna take personal
responsibility for.
27
00:04:18,258 --> 00:04:20,303
I'm not looking to say,
"Oh, well, the DA did this
28
00:04:20,434 --> 00:04:23,872
and the police officers
did that." I'm not doing that.
29
00:04:24,002 --> 00:04:28,442
I tried really hard numerous
times to tell the truth.
30
00:04:28,572 --> 00:04:31,880
No one cares.
31
00:04:32,010 --> 00:04:35,753
I wish that people really knew
what really happened.
32
00:04:44,022 --> 00:04:47,199
I thought I was all grown up
at a very young age.
33
00:04:47,330 --> 00:04:51,421
Probably because of the things
that happened didn't allow me
to be a kid.
34
00:04:56,774 --> 00:05:00,604
Robin had
a very traumatic childhood.
35
00:05:00,735 --> 00:05:04,042
Um, from, I would say,
pre-teen years on.
36
00:05:04,173 --> 00:05:05,957
I think she kind of
fell through the cracks.
37
00:05:06,088 --> 00:05:08,003
Nowadays, I think Department
of Children and Families
38
00:05:08,133 --> 00:05:09,744
would be involved.
39
00:05:09,874 --> 00:05:11,702
And unfortunately,
that wasn't the case
40
00:05:11,833 --> 00:05:14,531
back in, you know, the '70s.
41
00:05:14,662 --> 00:05:16,881
I met Robin Murphy.
42
00:05:17,012 --> 00:05:19,319
She was 12 and I was 12.
43
00:05:19,449 --> 00:05:24,585
My family pretty much
fell apart when I was ten.
44
00:05:24,715 --> 00:05:29,067
My father became
a very abusive alcoholic.
45
00:05:29,198 --> 00:05:31,679
I ran away.
46
00:05:31,809 --> 00:05:35,770
She gave her mom a phone call.
Her mother didn't even know me.
47
00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:38,729
And she let me stay
at that house.
48
00:05:42,516 --> 00:05:45,649
I met her when I was,
yeah, when I was about 12.
49
00:05:45,780 --> 00:05:47,608
I felt bad for her.
50
00:05:47,738 --> 00:05:50,350
Wanted my mother to take her in.
51
00:05:52,090 --> 00:05:56,007
I think her mother
was working at a bar.
52
00:05:56,138 --> 00:06:00,621
There was no, uh, no parent
in that house at all.
There was no parent.
53
00:06:03,232 --> 00:06:05,190
Like, altogether,
I probably saw her mother
when I was living there
54
00:06:05,321 --> 00:06:07,541
like five times.
55
00:06:13,808 --> 00:06:16,854
With pretty much
having an absent parent,
56
00:06:16,985 --> 00:06:18,987
yeah, I kinda had
to make my own decisions.
57
00:06:19,117 --> 00:06:22,730
And I realized there
was nobody there.
58
00:06:22,860 --> 00:06:28,910
So... there was that clingy
thing to whoever was there.
59
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:34,698
Her father was living
on County Street in Fall River.
60
00:06:34,829 --> 00:06:39,311
And twice I walked
from one side of the city
61
00:06:39,442 --> 00:06:42,358
with Robin 'cause she wanted
to see her dad.
62
00:06:42,489 --> 00:06:45,535
I told my mother
I wanted to go live
with my father at one point.
63
00:06:48,146 --> 00:06:52,977
Her dad wouldn't
even open the door, said,
"Go away, I'm married."
64
00:06:53,108 --> 00:06:56,154
She wanted to be accepted
by her dad.
65
00:06:56,285 --> 00:06:59,288
And her dad certainly
didn't accept her.
66
00:06:59,419 --> 00:07:02,900
I was like, yeah,
no, I don't do this anymore.
67
00:07:07,035 --> 00:07:09,907
Robin was like the head
of the household at 12.
68
00:07:10,038 --> 00:07:14,695
She was-- she'd be the one
cooking that terrible chicken
with those russet potatoes
69
00:07:14,825 --> 00:07:18,089
and a can of corn
every damn night.
70
00:07:18,220 --> 00:07:21,963
Robin had three brothers.
71
00:07:22,093 --> 00:07:25,793
Bobby, the oldest brother, um,
72
00:07:25,923 --> 00:07:28,186
Mark,
73
00:07:28,317 --> 00:07:30,928
and Kelly.
74
00:07:34,758 --> 00:07:37,152
She was just totally on her own.
75
00:07:37,282 --> 00:07:40,677
12 years old, you know,
Bobby, her brother Bobby,
76
00:07:40,808 --> 00:07:43,245
used to rape her, and nothing...
77
00:07:43,375 --> 00:07:45,987
Yeah, everything was always
hush-hush. Everything
was hush-hush back then.
78
00:07:51,471 --> 00:07:54,909
She said, "I don't wanna get
pregnant from my brother.
79
00:07:55,039 --> 00:07:57,607
My mom... my mom won't
love me anymore."
80
00:07:59,957 --> 00:08:03,308
I think, with Robin,
81
00:08:03,439 --> 00:08:05,572
I think there's a denial factor.
82
00:08:05,702 --> 00:08:08,923
And maybe at that age,
not even knowing it's...
it's wrong.
83
00:08:09,053 --> 00:08:11,229
You know, maybe having
an inkling that this
is inappropriate.
84
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,016
But not really understanding
the gravity of what
was happening.
85
00:08:17,192 --> 00:08:19,977
Did you, uh, try and talk
to people about it?
86
00:08:20,108 --> 00:08:23,894
-I did. Deaf ears.
-Yeah.
87
00:08:24,025 --> 00:08:26,767
Um, my oldest brother
acted like things
never happened.
88
00:08:30,379 --> 00:08:33,338
Bobby was older than Robin.
His birthday was in November.
89
00:08:33,469 --> 00:08:37,778
That's all I remember.
But he was 16. Yeah.
90
00:08:37,908 --> 00:08:41,216
Four years older than Robin.
91
00:08:41,346 --> 00:08:44,175
I think,
as far as parenting goes,
on my mother's side,
92
00:08:44,306 --> 00:08:47,962
she did her best
with what she had.
93
00:08:48,092 --> 00:08:52,270
That's it. How do you deal
with things? I think
in her generation,
94
00:08:52,401 --> 00:08:55,012
you dealt with things by
sweeping them under the carpet.
95
00:08:55,143 --> 00:09:00,017
You don't take them out
into, you know, to other people.
96
00:09:05,370 --> 00:09:10,941
I met Robin, I wanna say
I was 16 or 17 years old.
97
00:09:11,072 --> 00:09:14,684
Which makes this young lady
11 or 12.
98
00:09:14,815 --> 00:09:16,338
Very young.
99
00:09:16,468 --> 00:09:20,995
I had seen her around town
in Fall River.
100
00:09:21,125 --> 00:09:23,911
Because I wasn't too far away
from Fall River,
101
00:09:24,041 --> 00:09:27,262
and I had some friends
in Fall River, you know.
102
00:09:27,392 --> 00:09:30,526
And I had family members
that were in Fall River.
103
00:09:30,657 --> 00:09:34,704
So I would see her
here and there.
104
00:09:34,835 --> 00:09:40,101
And I had heard conversations
about her being around
in my father's life.
105
00:09:42,407 --> 00:09:46,063
Andy Maltais, he was very active
on the street.
106
00:09:50,154 --> 00:09:53,897
I was in front
of the Superior Court House.
107
00:09:54,028 --> 00:09:57,988
Um, lived near there,
about half a block.
108
00:09:58,119 --> 00:10:01,122
And he gave me a ride
down the street.
109
00:10:01,252 --> 00:10:05,735
Um... 11?
110
00:10:09,130 --> 00:10:13,134
Andy was
the strangest character
probably of all.
111
00:10:13,264 --> 00:10:14,962
Uh, you could
walk the streets
112
00:10:15,092 --> 00:10:18,269
of Fall River
for a month,
113
00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,445
and you will not see anyone
with cowboy boots
114
00:10:20,576 --> 00:10:23,579
and a buckle that says "Texas"
on it and pill buttons.
115
00:10:23,710 --> 00:10:26,582
Andy Maltais
was dressed that way.
116
00:10:26,713 --> 00:10:33,415
He did wear boots
and he did have a big,
I guess, western belt buckle.
117
00:10:33,545 --> 00:10:38,942
I don't know exactly how
to describe him. We didn't...
we didn't go out to dinner.
118
00:10:39,073 --> 00:10:41,249
He was a character.
He was a character.
119
00:10:41,379 --> 00:10:43,251
He was an older guy.
120
00:10:43,381 --> 00:10:46,036
He lived with his mother,
first of all.
121
00:10:46,167 --> 00:10:49,344
And he was like, uh,
a wimpy guy.
122
00:10:49,474 --> 00:10:52,782
I don't think anyone
thought much of Andy.
123
00:10:57,744 --> 00:11:00,485
I was molested and raped
by Andy Maltais,
124
00:11:00,616 --> 00:11:03,097
starting at age 11.
125
00:11:03,227 --> 00:11:07,275
I wasn't performing
cult meetings
in the Freetown State Forest.
126
00:11:07,405 --> 00:11:10,800
Andy was molesting me
in the Freetown State Forest.
127
00:11:14,325 --> 00:11:18,329
She just ended up, I think,
being revictimized over
and over and over.
128
00:11:18,460 --> 00:11:21,419
Starting at 11.
129
00:11:21,550 --> 00:11:24,858
Andy was
a pedophile, basically.
130
00:11:24,988 --> 00:11:27,382
He liked young girls.
131
00:11:27,512 --> 00:11:32,126
He would drive around
and find these young girls.
132
00:11:32,256 --> 00:11:36,652
And people like that,
they're predators.
133
00:11:36,783 --> 00:11:40,177
He had a pattern of what we
would now say is grooming.
134
00:11:40,308 --> 00:11:44,529
You know, get in her good graces
and get her things
and take her around and,
135
00:11:44,660 --> 00:11:47,576
you know, eventually
sexually abuse her.
136
00:11:47,707 --> 00:11:52,581
He actually took me
to meet his mother at one point.
137
00:11:52,712 --> 00:11:55,671
Which I found very weird.
138
00:11:55,802 --> 00:12:00,632
My dad was always a part
of my life,
139
00:12:00,763 --> 00:12:02,547
whether he was home
or not home.
140
00:12:02,678 --> 00:12:05,420
My mom and him separated
141
00:12:05,550 --> 00:12:08,118
because my dad
would like to go out at night.
142
00:12:14,298 --> 00:12:16,213
He liked younger women.
I mean, I don't know
what to tell you.
143
00:12:16,344 --> 00:12:19,173
But that was just his thing.
144
00:12:22,306 --> 00:12:25,179
I know that
at one point,
145
00:12:25,309 --> 00:12:27,398
the school that
I was going to...
146
00:12:27,529 --> 00:12:30,924
Maybe I was in... jeez.
147
00:12:31,054 --> 00:12:32,621
Seventh grade?
148
00:12:32,752 --> 00:12:35,145
The school called my mother
and wanted to know
149
00:12:35,276 --> 00:12:37,669
who the man was in the red car
150
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,541
that was waiting
for me every day.
151
00:12:39,671 --> 00:12:41,848
And that was Andy Maltais.
152
00:12:41,978 --> 00:12:44,154
My mother asked me
and I told her it
was none of her business.
153
00:12:44,285 --> 00:12:46,200
And that was good enough.
154
00:12:46,330 --> 00:12:49,333
I don't know
if it's she didn't care
155
00:12:49,464 --> 00:12:53,642
or she just didn't know
what to do about it.
156
00:12:53,773 --> 00:12:58,299
No one stood up for her. You
know, she kind of had to learn
to handle things by herself.
157
00:12:58,429 --> 00:13:03,347
Um, and had a very skewed
view of what's appropriate
and what's not appropriate
158
00:13:03,478 --> 00:13:07,177
and very limited trust
in people.
159
00:13:09,658 --> 00:13:13,662
Robin Murphy tried
to find other victims.
160
00:13:13,793 --> 00:13:19,929
So she... would not have
to have any kind of sexual
relationship with Andy Maltais.
161
00:13:25,369 --> 00:13:28,459
Andy Maltais, he was gonna
give me a ride home.
162
00:13:28,590 --> 00:13:33,595
And she told me he'd be safe
and he wasn't.
163
00:13:33,725 --> 00:13:35,379
He raped me.
164
00:13:35,510 --> 00:13:37,338
Repeatedly.
165
00:13:41,472 --> 00:13:45,912
Nobody knows. I guess everybody
who's watching it is gonna know
about me now.
166
00:13:46,042 --> 00:13:47,130
But it's okay.
167
00:13:48,653 --> 00:13:52,962
He tied my hands behind a...
168
00:13:53,093 --> 00:13:54,834
pine tree.
169
00:13:59,142 --> 00:14:01,057
And he was masturbating.
170
00:14:01,188 --> 00:14:03,494
And then broke my virginity.
171
00:14:03,625 --> 00:14:07,237
And then he put a stick
in my vagina...
172
00:14:09,370 --> 00:14:11,154
and told me if I said anything,
173
00:14:11,285 --> 00:14:14,679
my parents and my sister
were gonna be dead.
174
00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:20,163
And I didn't want him
to kill my... kill my parents.
175
00:14:20,294 --> 00:14:22,252
Or kill my sister.
176
00:14:32,045 --> 00:14:34,743
I went to the police station
and told them about Andy.
177
00:14:34,874 --> 00:14:38,790
They wouldn't even take my
statement 'cause I was only 12.
178
00:14:38,921 --> 00:14:41,402
They didn't care.
They didn't care.
179
00:14:44,971 --> 00:14:48,278
I guess it was
something that was overlooked.
180
00:14:48,409 --> 00:14:50,672
And I don't mean
to put men down,
181
00:14:50,802 --> 00:14:54,415
but it seems like men
were always privileged
and women were not.
182
00:14:59,724 --> 00:15:02,640
Nowadays, the lens on that
is much different.
183
00:15:02,771 --> 00:15:05,730
But even through the police
reports and looking at stuff,
184
00:15:05,861 --> 00:15:08,951
it does appear that they really
just were, "No big deal."
185
00:15:25,837 --> 00:15:27,274
No.
186
00:15:27,404 --> 00:15:28,753
No, uh...
187
00:15:28,884 --> 00:15:31,495
Because we were, at that time,
188
00:15:31,626 --> 00:15:34,716
we were just interested in...
in homicides.
189
00:15:34,846 --> 00:15:36,065
Uh...
190
00:15:40,287 --> 00:15:41,853
They didn't care.
191
00:15:41,984 --> 00:15:44,769
They still don't.
They still don't.
192
00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:47,772
The only defense
Robin has
193
00:15:47,903 --> 00:15:52,255
is she was sexually abused
and brutalized as a child.
194
00:15:52,386 --> 00:15:55,563
Uh, and psychologically
that damaged her.
195
00:15:55,693 --> 00:15:58,348
But she isn't fit
to be among society.
196
00:15:58,479 --> 00:16:01,612
I consider her
a dangerous person.
197
00:16:01,743 --> 00:16:05,138
They didn't give a flying fuck.
There you go, I'm sorry.
198
00:16:05,268 --> 00:16:08,097
For God's sakes... oh.
199
00:16:08,228 --> 00:16:10,621
Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy.
200
00:16:10,752 --> 00:16:14,974
I don't know, I think
it may have been the time.
201
00:16:15,104 --> 00:16:19,630
People in the '70s
and even the early '80s.
202
00:16:19,761 --> 00:16:24,331
Uh, child rape cases
were not pursued
203
00:16:24,461 --> 00:16:26,768
the way they are today.
204
00:16:26,898 --> 00:16:29,205
They may have thought
that it was consensual.
205
00:16:29,336 --> 00:16:31,729
So it's all okay.
206
00:16:31,860 --> 00:16:33,122
Uh, it's not.
207
00:16:41,565 --> 00:16:44,960
Okay, there was a long
relationship with Andy Maltais.
208
00:16:45,091 --> 00:16:48,485
-Yes, sir.
-About roughly six years?
209
00:16:48,616 --> 00:16:51,662
-Since you were
11 or 12 years old?
-Correct.
210
00:16:51,793 --> 00:16:55,666
-He was 44 at the time, right?
-Okay. I'm really not sure.
211
00:16:55,797 --> 00:17:00,454
Okay. Something regarding
your childhood,
212
00:17:00,584 --> 00:17:05,459
um, and, you know,
uncontroverted trauma
213
00:17:05,589 --> 00:17:08,636
that you experienced
when you were very young.
214
00:17:08,766 --> 00:17:13,684
Um, it accounts for a lot
of your actions.
215
00:17:13,815 --> 00:17:15,904
But there's a...
there are a lot of things
216
00:17:16,035 --> 00:17:18,907
that... that does
not account for.
217
00:17:19,038 --> 00:17:22,302
And, you know, when... when...
218
00:17:22,432 --> 00:17:24,782
A lot of things,
you took it upon yourself
219
00:17:24,913 --> 00:17:29,048
to make this so much
more complicated.
220
00:17:34,836 --> 00:17:36,881
Andy bought me two
puppies after he molested me.
221
00:17:37,012 --> 00:17:40,755
And he did call my
parents' house one time.
222
00:17:40,885 --> 00:17:43,801
And my father
picked up the phone.
223
00:17:43,932 --> 00:17:48,676
My dad knew something was up,
but he didn't say anything.
224
00:17:48,806 --> 00:17:54,508
That made it worse for me.
That made it worse for me.
225
00:17:54,638 --> 00:17:57,511
Andy killed my other puppy
in front of me.
226
00:17:57,641 --> 00:18:00,035
He says, "Now this
is gonna be your father."
227
00:18:00,166 --> 00:18:04,909
That experience has traumatized
my life for the rest of my life.
228
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,216
The nightmares don't go away.
229
00:18:09,871 --> 00:18:12,830
A lot of times kids
who are victimized and abused
230
00:18:12,961 --> 00:18:15,703
continue to be victimized
and abused by other people.
231
00:18:15,833 --> 00:18:19,446
Um, you know, almost like
they have a target on them.
232
00:18:19,576 --> 00:18:23,102
Um, I think with Robin,
it definitely impacted
233
00:18:23,232 --> 00:18:27,541
any form of any close
relationship she had
with anyone.
234
00:18:27,671 --> 00:18:31,153
What did you perceive
as behaviors or character traits
235
00:18:31,284 --> 00:18:34,330
that you needed to address
during your incarceration?
236
00:18:34,461 --> 00:18:36,985
-Um...
-To be rehabilitated.
237
00:18:37,116 --> 00:18:40,641
I would say, um, anger.
238
00:18:40,771 --> 00:18:44,079
But the anger came from hurt.
239
00:18:44,210 --> 00:18:48,562
And that came as a result
of, uh, abuse.
240
00:18:48,692 --> 00:18:50,651
And neglect.
241
00:18:51,956 --> 00:18:54,568
Abuse from male figures.
242
00:18:54,698 --> 00:18:58,789
Um, and neglect
from a mother figure
who was kind of not there.
243
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:04,230
She was busy trying
to make ends meet
to bring up four kids.
244
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:08,364
If you don't walk through that
and you don't forgive the past,
245
00:19:08,495 --> 00:19:10,801
then you don't get to grow up.
246
00:19:10,932 --> 00:19:13,152
And you stay angry.
247
00:19:30,908 --> 00:19:33,302
Robin, she got pregnant.
248
00:19:33,433 --> 00:19:35,565
Had a son.
249
00:19:35,696 --> 00:19:38,307
I believe she was barely 16.
250
00:19:40,135 --> 00:19:44,183
I had a gay brother.
He was two years older than me.
251
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,457
When Robin told me
she was pregnant,
252
00:19:57,587 --> 00:19:59,633
I went to the house
and we talked.
253
00:19:59,763 --> 00:20:03,767
She said, "I was raped
and I'm effing pregnant."
254
00:20:06,553 --> 00:20:09,469
And her mom took the child.
255
00:20:09,599 --> 00:20:11,949
I think having a baby
and being gay...
256
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,213
At that point she was gay.
257
00:20:15,736 --> 00:20:17,607
That really messed her head up.
258
00:20:32,666 --> 00:20:34,276
I know she doesn't want
to talk about it.
259
00:20:34,407 --> 00:20:37,932
I think, in a broad term
of, you know, getting pregnant,
260
00:20:38,062 --> 00:20:40,543
I think it kind of forced her
to grow up quicker
261
00:20:40,674 --> 00:20:44,895
than I think any teenage parent
ends up having to do.
262
00:20:45,026 --> 00:20:46,854
Everything spiraled
with Robin.
263
00:20:46,984 --> 00:20:50,031
The older she got,
having a child,
264
00:20:50,161 --> 00:20:54,601
hormones after having a child
at a young age,
265
00:20:54,731 --> 00:20:56,516
depressed all the time.
266
00:21:10,007 --> 00:21:13,097
Sonny Sparda,
she was a friend of Robin's.
267
00:21:13,228 --> 00:21:14,925
And they were allegedly,
268
00:21:15,056 --> 00:21:16,884
they were having
a lesbian relationship.
269
00:21:17,014 --> 00:21:22,455
Sonny Sparda
had a history of prostitution.
270
00:21:22,585 --> 00:21:25,196
And, um, she lived
at Harbor Terrace
271
00:21:25,327 --> 00:21:29,200
which was a housing development
no longer in existence.
272
00:21:29,331 --> 00:21:33,553
Robin was over there
constantly. And Sonny was
friendly with Carl Drew.
273
00:21:33,683 --> 00:21:35,468
She was friendly
with the whole group.
274
00:21:38,297 --> 00:21:42,779
I know that I never
enjoyed the company of men...
275
00:21:42,910 --> 00:21:44,694
sexually.
276
00:21:46,305 --> 00:21:48,872
So we kind of hung
to the gay bars.
277
00:21:49,003 --> 00:21:51,005
I met Sonny there.
278
00:21:51,135 --> 00:21:55,749
Um, she seemed nice.
279
00:21:55,879 --> 00:21:58,534
That got different
really quick, but...
280
00:21:58,665 --> 00:22:01,145
at the time she seemed nice.
281
00:22:01,276 --> 00:22:03,583
We spent a lot of time
in Sonny's apartment.
282
00:22:03,713 --> 00:22:07,369
It was a place for us to meet.
283
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:11,242
It's hard to understand it.
Why would they wanna... want
284
00:22:11,373 --> 00:22:14,768
the police detectives around
in Sonny Sparda's apartment?
285
00:22:14,898 --> 00:22:20,817
But they thought they could
gather the information from us.
286
00:22:20,948 --> 00:22:24,952
Um, we knew we could get
information from them.
287
00:22:25,082 --> 00:22:27,433
And they were too afraid
to keep us away.
288
00:22:27,563 --> 00:22:32,002
The amount of time we spent
with these girls is incredible.
289
00:22:32,133 --> 00:22:34,527
To me,
they were never cops.
290
00:22:34,657 --> 00:22:36,659
They had badges.
291
00:22:36,790 --> 00:22:40,054
They just didn't operate
like police officers.
292
00:22:40,184 --> 00:22:44,014
There was some concerns
about how Fall River
293
00:22:44,145 --> 00:22:47,322
was getting information
from informants.
294
00:22:47,453 --> 00:22:51,239
They were perceived as hanging
out with them too much.
295
00:22:51,370 --> 00:22:54,503
Um, drinking with them.
296
00:22:54,634 --> 00:22:58,464
Uh, getting too...
the perception was that they
were getting too friendly.
297
00:22:58,594 --> 00:23:00,944
We were given the green light
by our commander at the time.
298
00:23:01,075 --> 00:23:04,426
So anything that we had to do
to do that,
299
00:23:04,557 --> 00:23:08,778
including us bringing alcohol,
marijuana into the apartment,
we did it.
300
00:23:10,911 --> 00:23:13,130
You had girls
being exploited,
301
00:23:13,261 --> 00:23:15,089
and they just weren't
particularly concerned
302
00:23:15,219 --> 00:23:18,527
about the exploitation factor
of those girls.
303
00:23:23,271 --> 00:23:25,142
I was with a friend.
304
00:23:25,273 --> 00:23:28,668
We went to buy marijuana
from someone.
305
00:23:28,798 --> 00:23:33,542
And Carl Drew was seated
on a couch.
306
00:23:33,673 --> 00:23:36,458
'Cause I remember backing up
and saying, "Come on,
I wanna get out of here."
307
00:23:36,589 --> 00:23:40,680
He just had an icy stare.
I didn't like the look of him.
308
00:23:43,117 --> 00:23:45,772
So I end up meeting Robin
at Sonny's.
309
00:23:45,902 --> 00:23:48,905
We didn't get along. She had
an attitude when she talked.
310
00:23:49,036 --> 00:23:51,995
You know, you're supposed
to pay attention to her
or listen to her.
311
00:23:52,126 --> 00:23:54,389
And I was above
and beyond all that stuff.
312
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,785
He was just
a really intimidating guy.
313
00:23:58,915 --> 00:24:01,657
Hearing stories about him...
314
00:24:01,788 --> 00:24:05,226
I didn't believe them.
315
00:24:05,356 --> 00:24:08,577
They just seemed too out there
to be true.
316
00:24:13,103 --> 00:24:16,367
Robin had this disposition
that she tried to act like a man
317
00:24:16,498 --> 00:24:18,457
and we're having
a heated argument.
318
00:24:18,587 --> 00:24:21,242
And I got to a point
where I wanted to punch her.
319
00:24:21,372 --> 00:24:24,985
But I didn't. I end up
open slapping her
and knocking her on her ass.
320
00:24:31,557 --> 00:24:34,037
Carl had come
to Sonny's house.
321
00:24:34,168 --> 00:24:37,084
And Karen Marsden was with him.
322
00:24:37,214 --> 00:24:41,392
And he was upset with her
for some reason.
323
00:24:41,523 --> 00:24:44,918
Karen was seated in a chair
where I couldn't see her.
324
00:24:45,048 --> 00:24:47,877
Carl kept pacing back and forth.
So I got up.
325
00:24:48,008 --> 00:24:49,836
Pissed off,
went in the bathroom.
326
00:24:49,966 --> 00:24:51,185
And she said,
"What's the matter with you?"
327
00:24:51,315 --> 00:24:53,753
I said, "He's a jerk."
328
00:24:53,883 --> 00:24:56,320
Karen Marsden,
she was a sweet person.
329
00:24:56,451 --> 00:24:58,714
She was concerned about her son.
330
00:24:58,845 --> 00:25:03,023
For a 17-year-old, yes,
I loved her. Yes.
331
00:25:03,153 --> 00:25:05,852
It was somebody that was there.
332
00:25:05,982 --> 00:25:10,813
She told me her introduction
to being a prostitute for Carl
333
00:25:10,944 --> 00:25:15,296
was she told me
a story about him
334
00:25:15,426 --> 00:25:17,907
choking her one night
at the Holiday Inn.
335
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:21,737
She passed out.
And when she woke up,
336
00:25:21,868 --> 00:25:24,218
she was laying on the bed
337
00:25:24,348 --> 00:25:26,568
and he was dripping blood
down on her forehead.
338
00:25:31,312 --> 00:25:35,098
Carl decided he should
take her car
339
00:25:35,229 --> 00:25:41,061
and basically, um,
had her doing drugs.
340
00:25:41,191 --> 00:25:43,106
Very unfortunate.
341
00:25:43,237 --> 00:25:47,894
I took her to
the Corrigan Mental Health Unit.
342
00:25:48,024 --> 00:25:52,376
I needed somebody to look at her
and try to help her.
343
00:25:52,507 --> 00:25:57,904
Um, they gave her Haldol,
Haldol, whatever
the heck that is
344
00:25:58,034 --> 00:25:59,949
and sent her on her way.
345
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,125
Um, that was
how they treated that.
346
00:26:02,256 --> 00:26:06,216
Drugs with more drugs
and more drugs.
347
00:26:06,347 --> 00:26:10,612
I noticed recently that
348
00:26:10,743 --> 00:26:15,704
my involvements with people
have always been
with broken people.
349
00:26:21,971 --> 00:26:23,756
Robin's father
let her down,
350
00:26:23,886 --> 00:26:26,062
for not caring.
351
00:26:26,193 --> 00:26:29,326
Or having the time for her.
352
00:26:29,457 --> 00:26:31,459
Then you got Andy.
353
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:33,722
And then you got Carl Drew.
354
00:26:35,419 --> 00:26:37,900
They have, you know,
made their case
355
00:26:38,031 --> 00:26:40,990
on Robin being a central figure
in this
356
00:26:41,121 --> 00:26:43,950
and her being
a main perpetrator,
357
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,474
um, instead of a victim.
358
00:26:46,605 --> 00:26:51,348
She fell in with this crowd
of people, Carl Drew included,
359
00:26:51,479 --> 00:26:55,048
who was a known pimp
in Fall River and in his
20s at the time.
360
00:26:55,178 --> 00:26:59,443
So to put it on her,
that she, at 17,
361
00:26:59,574 --> 00:27:04,013
you know, was pimping out
other girls who
were older than her,
362
00:27:04,144 --> 00:27:06,407
I think was very short-sighted.
363
00:27:06,537 --> 00:27:10,019
Robin did a lot of intimidation,
not only with Karen,
364
00:27:10,150 --> 00:27:12,456
who she totally controlled,
365
00:27:12,587 --> 00:27:15,242
but she did a lot of
intimidation with everyone else
who worked the street.
366
00:27:15,372 --> 00:27:19,507
Keep in mind, Robin was only
17 years old at the time.
367
00:27:19,638 --> 00:27:24,294
But, um, a very violent person.
368
00:27:24,425 --> 00:27:28,472
They weren't fully
grasping, you know, that she
was an exploited victim.
369
00:27:28,603 --> 00:27:30,997
She may have been
a child at 17 years old,
370
00:27:31,127 --> 00:27:33,303
or considered a child.
371
00:27:33,434 --> 00:27:35,218
Robin didn't need
any protection.
372
00:27:35,349 --> 00:27:38,221
So there's this group
of prostitutes
373
00:27:38,352 --> 00:27:40,920
and they're being controlled
by Carl Drew,
374
00:27:41,050 --> 00:27:42,530
who's a motorcycle
and tough guy.
375
00:27:42,661 --> 00:27:45,402
-A 16-year-old girl.
-Mm-hm.
376
00:27:45,533 --> 00:27:48,057
-Doesn't seem to fit...
-Just as violent, if not more.
377
00:27:48,188 --> 00:27:50,930
You look at her, you say, "Ooh.
378
00:27:51,060 --> 00:27:52,845
She's sweet and innocent."
379
00:27:52,975 --> 00:27:54,803
That was not the case.
380
00:27:56,370 --> 00:27:59,721
It's very frustrating
to have people
381
00:27:59,852 --> 00:28:04,030
even now refer to her
as a prostitute or as a pimp,
382
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,425
um, when she was clearly
victimized and was
trafficked herself
383
00:28:08,556 --> 00:28:10,950
in with this group of adults.
384
00:28:17,696 --> 00:28:21,482
I was on call
that weekend. Doreen Levesque.
385
00:28:21,612 --> 00:28:25,704
We found her under the bleachers
at Diamond Vocational
High School in Fall River.
386
00:28:27,575 --> 00:28:31,144
She had been severely beaten
and was, you know, killed.
387
00:28:31,274 --> 00:28:36,497
Karen said
that Carl killed a girl
under the bleachers.
388
00:28:36,627 --> 00:28:41,284
I insisted, "Nah. He's just
told you that to, you know,
get you to walk right."
389
00:28:44,984 --> 00:28:47,464
That's Karen
telling you this?
-Karen was telling me that. Yes.
390
00:28:47,595 --> 00:28:49,553
Were you present when,
we're talking about,
391
00:28:49,684 --> 00:28:51,773
do you know the girl that was
found behind the bleachers?
392
00:28:51,904 --> 00:28:55,472
-Yes, that was Doreen Levesque.
-Doreen Levesque. Right.
393
00:28:55,603 --> 00:28:58,867
Karen used to call me on the
phone all the time, you know,
394
00:28:58,998 --> 00:29:02,349
Drew's gonna threaten her.
I said, "Karen,
we'll take care of you.
395
00:29:02,479 --> 00:29:05,091
We'll move you somewhere.
We'll do something for you."
396
00:29:05,221 --> 00:29:07,397
"No, I don't want to go.
I don't want to leave."
397
00:29:07,528 --> 00:29:09,617
So Carl smashed her head in
with rocks.
398
00:29:09,748 --> 00:29:13,708
And she was crying and she
had holy water in her pocket.
399
00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:17,581
Doreen was the first victim.
400
00:29:17,712 --> 00:29:23,413
But the most astonishing thing
is that before
the Karen Marsden murder,
401
00:29:23,544 --> 00:29:28,070
Robin Murphy had been a witness
to the murder
of another young prostitute,
402
00:29:28,201 --> 00:29:30,072
Barbara Raposa.
403
00:29:32,553 --> 00:29:36,600
That homicide
involved Andy Maltais and Robin.
404
00:29:36,731 --> 00:29:38,602
Carl wasn't present.
405
00:29:38,733 --> 00:29:40,909
Uh, none of the other actors
were present.
406
00:29:44,783 --> 00:29:47,133
I don't like
to bring that up, I have to say.
407
00:29:47,263 --> 00:29:49,918
Um, because Andy died.
408
00:30:15,465 --> 00:30:19,034
It was a wooded area
but clearly seen from the road.
409
00:30:19,165 --> 00:30:20,340
You could drive in there.
410
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:22,864
It was a sort
of a lover's lane.
411
00:30:25,562 --> 00:30:29,653
There was a gentleman
who was walking his beagle dog.
412
00:30:29,784 --> 00:30:31,525
The ground was frozen.
413
00:30:31,655 --> 00:30:34,833
And the dog went over,
was licking the dead body.
414
00:30:37,531 --> 00:30:39,925
That was a Saturday in January.
415
00:30:40,055 --> 00:30:41,970
And it was cold.
416
00:30:44,364 --> 00:30:46,279
And she was frozen solid.
417
00:30:48,324 --> 00:30:50,283
Her face was smashed in.
418
00:30:52,633 --> 00:30:55,854
In the area where we found her,
there were some cement blocks.
419
00:30:57,594 --> 00:31:00,859
A cement block did
serious damage to her face.
420
00:31:02,469 --> 00:31:04,993
She was... severely beaten.
421
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,652
The body was
completely frozen, rock solid,
422
00:31:11,782 --> 00:31:15,003
when we removed it
from that location.
423
00:31:21,923 --> 00:31:26,928
What we did was interviewed
everyone we could think of
424
00:31:27,059 --> 00:31:30,366
that was directly or indirectly
involved with her.
425
00:31:33,152 --> 00:31:36,155
We tied
the connection together
that she was Andy's girlfriend
426
00:31:36,285 --> 00:31:38,418
and it developed from there.
427
00:31:41,073 --> 00:31:43,858
The only time I knew of Barbara
was he spoke with me
428
00:31:43,989 --> 00:31:45,729
about having a female
in his life
429
00:31:45,860 --> 00:31:48,341
and that he had a new woman
in his life
430
00:31:48,471 --> 00:31:53,041
and that he really cared for her
and that she really
needed his help.
431
00:31:58,177 --> 00:32:02,355
She was 17 and he was 40.
432
00:32:02,485 --> 00:32:06,054
And she started dating him.
I tried to...
433
00:32:06,185 --> 00:32:07,447
get her away from him.
434
00:32:07,577 --> 00:32:10,189
But she thought he was great.
435
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:12,669
'Cause, at first, he was nice.
436
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,195
But then he started, you know,
giving her more and more drugs.
437
00:32:19,372 --> 00:32:22,549
I was best friends with her
sister since second grade.
438
00:32:23,550 --> 00:32:27,597
She told me when Barbara
was five months' pregnant,
439
00:32:27,728 --> 00:32:30,426
that it might be Andy's.
440
00:32:30,557 --> 00:32:33,212
She had a son.
441
00:32:34,953 --> 00:32:37,433
She was younger, so, you know,
442
00:32:37,564 --> 00:32:39,783
a lot of people take that
like that's a bad thing
443
00:32:39,914 --> 00:32:43,483
because it was like probably
a 20 years age difference.
444
00:32:43,613 --> 00:32:47,487
But I have aunts and uncles
today that are that far apart
and they're still married.
445
00:32:50,969 --> 00:32:54,059
Barbara was... I'm gonna cry.
446
00:32:54,189 --> 00:32:56,626
Was a good girl.
447
00:32:56,757 --> 00:32:59,803
She was, um...
448
00:32:59,934 --> 00:33:03,372
In grammar school,
she did all the right things.
449
00:33:04,808 --> 00:33:07,289
That's why I'm here.
450
00:33:07,420 --> 00:33:10,118
I don't remember...
451
00:33:11,902 --> 00:33:16,472
them talking about her
at length ever.
452
00:33:16,603 --> 00:33:18,953
Um...
453
00:33:19,084 --> 00:33:21,651
I don't remember
any pictures of her.
454
00:33:21,782 --> 00:33:23,262
She was a beautiful girl.
455
00:33:26,743 --> 00:33:30,312
And, um,
justice wasn't done for her.
456
00:33:33,141 --> 00:33:35,665
I really didn't know
much about Barbara
457
00:33:35,796 --> 00:33:37,580
until we found her body.
458
00:33:37,711 --> 00:33:40,366
The night
that she disappeared,
459
00:33:40,496 --> 00:33:43,412
she was thinking of leaving,
460
00:33:43,543 --> 00:33:45,545
and she was getting
a clearer head.
461
00:33:45,675 --> 00:33:49,592
And she was finally thinking,
"I have a life to live,
462
00:33:49,723 --> 00:33:54,510
I have a son,
I'm gonna fix this and get out."
463
00:33:54,641 --> 00:33:57,296
And she disappeared.
And she was killed.
464
00:33:59,950 --> 00:34:04,172
Barbara was,
affiliating is probably
the correct word,
465
00:34:04,303 --> 00:34:05,739
with this other guy.
466
00:34:05,869 --> 00:34:10,352
But Andy was jealous
of their relationship.
467
00:34:10,483 --> 00:34:13,921
That's really part
of an abusive relationship.
468
00:34:14,052 --> 00:34:16,706
She wants to leave Fall River.
469
00:34:16,837 --> 00:34:18,578
She wants to move on
with her life,
470
00:34:18,708 --> 00:34:21,320
'cause she is really only a kid.
471
00:34:21,450 --> 00:34:24,497
He doesn't want her to leave.
472
00:34:24,627 --> 00:34:27,195
Andy wasn't the main suspect
in the case.
473
00:34:28,936 --> 00:34:30,633
I was 100 percent convinced
474
00:34:30,764 --> 00:34:32,592
that he didn't murder
Barbara Raposa.
475
00:34:32,722 --> 00:34:36,422
The medical examiner testified
476
00:34:36,552 --> 00:34:40,556
that from the wounds he saw
on Barbara Raposa,
477
00:34:40,687 --> 00:34:42,471
whoever did that would have
been covered with blood.
478
00:34:45,605 --> 00:34:47,955
Andy lived with his mother.
479
00:34:48,086 --> 00:34:49,913
It was a very small apartment.
480
00:34:50,044 --> 00:34:53,700
Andy's mother said she
didn't hear him come in late.
481
00:34:53,830 --> 00:34:57,051
When he came in, she didn't
hear him take a shower.
482
00:34:57,182 --> 00:34:59,488
She didn't find
any bloody clothes.
483
00:35:01,447 --> 00:35:05,233
My father was not there.
484
00:35:05,364 --> 00:35:08,584
He was home in bed.
485
00:35:08,715 --> 00:35:13,285
Just like my mammy said,
she's not gonna lie.
486
00:35:13,415 --> 00:35:15,417
She's a French woman
from Canada.
487
00:35:24,165 --> 00:35:28,778
Andy... really wouldn't...
wouldn't stay away
from the police.
488
00:35:28,909 --> 00:35:31,564
I mean, he was at the police
station all the time saying,
489
00:35:31,694 --> 00:35:33,043
"You know,
I just thought of something,
490
00:35:33,174 --> 00:35:35,524
maybe I can help you out
on this."
491
00:35:35,655 --> 00:35:39,615
And they strung him along.
492
00:35:39,746 --> 00:35:43,880
I think he thought he was some
kind of a junior G-man.
I don't really know.
493
00:35:44,011 --> 00:35:47,319
I found that people
who commit homicide
494
00:35:47,449 --> 00:35:49,886
want to tell someone.
495
00:35:50,017 --> 00:35:55,283
Sounds strange, but they want
to tell you what they did.
496
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,425
Midnight, I think on a Friday
or Saturday evening,
497
00:36:06,555 --> 00:36:10,690
Andy Maltais came
into our office.
498
00:36:10,820 --> 00:36:12,431
Came in with his cowboy boots
499
00:36:12,561 --> 00:36:16,826
and his cowboy buckle
and his shirt.
500
00:36:16,957 --> 00:36:19,438
And he came in holding
a Bible.
501
00:36:19,568 --> 00:36:20,700
I said, "Andy, why the Bible?"
502
00:36:20,830 --> 00:36:22,615
And he said he was with God now.
503
00:36:22,745 --> 00:36:24,704
But prior to that,
he'd been with the devil.
504
00:36:27,315 --> 00:36:29,970
It was crazy. First of
all, he didn't have a lawyer.
505
00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:34,017
And I'm not sure he would
have listened to a lawyer
at that point if he had one.
506
00:36:34,148 --> 00:36:37,804
We gave him
his Miranda warnings.
507
00:36:37,934 --> 00:36:40,023
His rights.
508
00:36:40,154 --> 00:36:43,549
Andy just kept telling
the police, as far as I recall,
509
00:36:43,679 --> 00:36:45,203
"Look, I know what I'm doing."
510
00:36:47,988 --> 00:36:50,773
There was
quite a bit of...
511
00:36:50,904 --> 00:36:53,820
conversation about God
and about Satan,
512
00:36:53,950 --> 00:36:56,953
and I really worked him over
with that.
513
00:36:57,084 --> 00:37:01,306
But that went on
for about, uh, 48 hours.
514
00:37:01,436 --> 00:37:04,613
We had no sleep.
We just kept working
and working that issue.
515
00:37:06,180 --> 00:37:08,661
For whatever reason,
516
00:37:08,791 --> 00:37:11,707
he wanted to...
call it whatever you want,
517
00:37:11,838 --> 00:37:14,710
cooperate, participate.
518
00:37:14,841 --> 00:37:18,975
You know, he wanted to be
involved with the police.
519
00:37:19,106 --> 00:37:22,631
He probably would have stayed
there for 84 hours
if they wanted him to.
520
00:37:24,633 --> 00:37:27,680
Andy, he wasn't too bright.
You know?
521
00:37:27,810 --> 00:37:30,378
But you could talk him into
saying he raped his own mother.
522
00:37:30,509 --> 00:37:35,470
I wanna be careful with my
words, 'cause the police
were just doing their job.
523
00:37:35,601 --> 00:37:38,256
But basically, they played him.
524
00:37:39,953 --> 00:37:41,911
I asked him
to close his eyes,
525
00:37:42,042 --> 00:37:45,001
and I said,
"You know what I see, Andy?
526
00:37:45,132 --> 00:37:49,049
I see you killing Barbara."
527
00:37:49,179 --> 00:37:51,573
And that's when he said,
you know,
528
00:37:51,704 --> 00:37:53,488
"I can see it too.
529
00:37:53,619 --> 00:37:57,405
I can see in my mind
where this body is."
530
00:37:57,536 --> 00:37:58,972
He wanted to take us there.
531
00:37:59,102 --> 00:38:00,974
Obviously, we did that.
532
00:38:01,104 --> 00:38:04,020
When Andy wanted
to go to the scene
533
00:38:04,151 --> 00:38:07,241
of where Barbara Raposa
had been killed,
534
00:38:07,372 --> 00:38:10,636
we took him to the scene
down there. It was a very,
very cold day.
535
00:38:10,766 --> 00:38:13,247
And that's when he said, uh,
536
00:38:13,378 --> 00:38:15,597
talking about
having had his dream
537
00:38:15,728 --> 00:38:20,254
and seeing her smashed
in the face and killed.
538
00:38:20,385 --> 00:38:25,346
He claimed that he saw
her murder in a vision.
539
00:38:25,477 --> 00:38:29,916
He's in a tree or he's hovering
above the murder scene.
540
00:38:30,046 --> 00:38:35,182
And he is witnessing that,
as if he is clairvoyant.
541
00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:38,185
They turn it around against him.
542
00:38:38,316 --> 00:38:40,840
And also because he had a dream.
543
00:38:40,970 --> 00:38:45,192
What, you mean to tell me
if I had a dream last night
544
00:38:45,323 --> 00:38:49,892
that God showed me something
in a dream, which He does speak
to people through dreams...
545
00:38:50,023 --> 00:38:52,155
Don't happen often,
but it does happen.
546
00:38:52,286 --> 00:38:55,724
That's in His word. I'm not God,
but that's His word.
547
00:38:57,900 --> 00:38:59,989
I never
considered it a confession.
548
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,688
I don't consider it
a confession now.
549
00:39:02,818 --> 00:39:06,344
We finally
arrested Andy Maltais.
550
00:39:13,351 --> 00:39:15,962
My dad was my best
friend. I was looking for him.
551
00:39:16,092 --> 00:39:18,878
We had stayed
in constant contact.
552
00:39:19,008 --> 00:39:21,576
You know, I was 19 years old.
553
00:39:21,707 --> 00:39:24,971
And we had plans to hook up
554
00:39:25,101 --> 00:39:28,017
and meet each other
in Fall River.
555
00:39:28,148 --> 00:39:32,805
Well, I went to go meet him,
and he was nowhere to be found.
556
00:39:36,461 --> 00:39:38,898
That's when I found out
that they arrested him.
557
00:39:41,944 --> 00:39:44,860
They arrested him.
I said, "What do you mean
they arrested him?"
558
00:39:46,906 --> 00:39:48,690
"They arrested him for murder."
559
00:39:48,821 --> 00:39:50,779
I said, "You people
are out of your mind!
560
00:39:52,346 --> 00:39:55,349
He didn't kill anybody."
561
00:39:55,480 --> 00:40:01,050
And after Andy admitted to it,
Robin came through
with the full story.
562
00:40:01,181 --> 00:40:06,012
Andy told me that
Barbara was laying dead
somewhere in the woods.
563
00:40:06,142 --> 00:40:09,581
And of course, I told him no,
she's probably just running away
from you.
564
00:40:09,711 --> 00:40:12,279
He said, "No.
565
00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:15,413
She is laying in the woods."
566
00:40:19,765 --> 00:40:22,985
Andy Maltais
told me a story
567
00:40:23,116 --> 00:40:24,813
that angels carried him
over Barbara
568
00:40:24,944 --> 00:40:26,772
while she was being murdered.
569
00:40:26,902 --> 00:40:28,643
He said that Barbara
was bludgeoned to death
570
00:40:28,774 --> 00:40:31,080
before she was found.
571
00:40:31,211 --> 00:40:34,257
That angels carried him over,
she was in a wooded area,
572
00:40:34,388 --> 00:40:37,783
that she was tied up
and beaten to death with a rock.
573
00:40:37,913 --> 00:40:40,089
When I told the police that,
574
00:40:40,220 --> 00:40:44,093
they said he had told them
the same story.
575
00:40:44,224 --> 00:40:48,097
I said, "Well, if I was there,
if I was in the car with him,
is that good?
576
00:40:48,228 --> 00:40:50,839
Does that pick him up?"
577
00:40:50,970 --> 00:40:53,929
And it did.
578
00:40:54,060 --> 00:40:58,847
She turned around and said that
she was in the car with Barbara
and Andy.
579
00:40:58,978 --> 00:41:01,502
Andy's statements
didn't help him.
580
00:41:01,633 --> 00:41:04,505
Without Robin Murphy, they
wouldn't have had a case at all.
581
00:41:04,636 --> 00:41:07,116
I thought she was lying
from the first day I met her.
582
00:41:07,247 --> 00:41:09,989
But I could never get her
into a position
583
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:13,122
where she was so contradictory
584
00:41:13,253 --> 00:41:15,298
that it was obvious
she was lying.
585
00:41:15,429 --> 00:41:19,041
Andy Maltais' lawyer asked me
if I lied about Andy
586
00:41:19,172 --> 00:41:22,088
because of what he did to me
when I was a kid.
587
00:41:22,218 --> 00:41:25,874
I didn't say he
murdered Barbara
588
00:41:26,005 --> 00:41:28,964
because of what he did to me.
589
00:41:29,095 --> 00:41:31,880
But so that he couldn't
do it to anyone else.
590
00:41:33,795 --> 00:41:35,623
And it worked.
591
00:41:47,287 --> 00:41:50,725
Her coming forward
was definitely
592
00:41:50,856 --> 00:41:53,162
a way of... of fighting back
593
00:41:53,293 --> 00:41:56,165
and regaining some power
in her life.
594
00:41:56,296 --> 00:41:59,865
Andy Maltais abused her,
595
00:41:59,995 --> 00:42:03,042
ruined her life, hurt her,
596
00:42:03,172 --> 00:42:07,829
physically, emotionally,
mentally.
597
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,529
Andy Maltais, he should
have been castrated.
598
00:42:13,008 --> 00:42:14,575
He should have been castrated.
599
00:42:16,272 --> 00:42:18,971
This is the site where the state
says Andre Maltais
600
00:42:19,101 --> 00:42:21,234
beat Barbara Raposa to death
with a rock
601
00:42:21,364 --> 00:42:23,976
back in November of 1979.
602
00:42:26,718 --> 00:42:29,242
The police took me
to where she was found
603
00:42:29,372 --> 00:42:32,941
and basically said,
"So, the car came in this way.
604
00:42:33,072 --> 00:42:34,290
You remember
this bump over here?"
605
00:42:34,421 --> 00:42:36,858
And I just, you know,
"Yep, yep."
606
00:42:44,649 --> 00:42:47,042
Robin,
she was very smart.
607
00:42:47,173 --> 00:42:49,218
The best witness I ever saw.
608
00:42:49,349 --> 00:42:52,831
I used to be
a very good storyteller.
609
00:42:54,876 --> 00:42:57,531
And it got my needs met.
610
00:42:57,662 --> 00:42:59,533
She had gone over
the transcript.
611
00:42:59,664 --> 00:43:02,144
She had figured out
what I was doing.
612
00:43:02,275 --> 00:43:05,234
She was a very,
very smart witness.
613
00:43:05,365 --> 00:43:10,805
We watched him
go in and out of the courthouse
in a wheelchair.
614
00:43:10,936 --> 00:43:12,807
Because through all of this,
he had a stroke.
615
00:43:12,938 --> 00:43:14,635
He had three strokes.
616
00:43:14,766 --> 00:43:18,160
The third one caused his whole
left side to shut down,
617
00:43:18,291 --> 00:43:19,901
so he barely could walk.
618
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:28,214
He had strange sexual
proclivities, shall we say.
619
00:43:28,344 --> 00:43:32,087
And the prosecution
felt that they really needed
620
00:43:32,218 --> 00:43:37,092
to introduce some of this
equipment in the trial.
621
00:43:37,223 --> 00:43:42,489
Andy Maltais talked
about a bag of tricks
that he had.
622
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:45,535
A bag of tricks,
all sexual items that he used,
623
00:43:45,666 --> 00:43:49,104
vibrators and rope
and handcuffs.
624
00:43:49,235 --> 00:43:52,542
Gags.
625
00:43:52,673 --> 00:43:57,460
We had court stenographers.
We had little old ladies
in the back row.
626
00:43:57,591 --> 00:44:00,028
And they were shocked.
627
00:44:01,726 --> 00:44:05,381
I know at the trial,
Robin claimed
628
00:44:05,512 --> 00:44:08,646
Maltais had molested her
when she was a child.
629
00:44:08,776 --> 00:44:12,693
Andy Maltais,
I don't know whether
he saw it as wrong.
630
00:44:12,824 --> 00:44:16,654
I think he knew it was wrong,
but it was a wrong
that he could accept.
631
00:44:16,784 --> 00:44:22,137
It's not a wrong that you
or I would accept or most
normal people would accept.
632
00:44:22,268 --> 00:44:25,053
But he was like, "Oh, yeah.
I did that."
633
00:44:25,184 --> 00:44:27,795
And he seemed detached.
634
00:44:28,970 --> 00:44:31,103
His general demeanor
635
00:44:31,233 --> 00:44:35,585
was just almost accepting
of his own behavior.
636
00:44:35,716 --> 00:44:39,198
You know, he didn't see
the world the way you and I do.
637
00:44:41,461 --> 00:44:45,813
It was disturbing to me
to watch a man...
638
00:44:47,380 --> 00:44:49,338
try and make sense of his life.
639
00:44:49,469 --> 00:44:50,426
And he couldn't.
640
00:44:50,557 --> 00:44:53,342
He just couldn't.
641
00:44:53,473 --> 00:44:54,866
It's kind of pathetic.
642
00:45:00,741 --> 00:45:05,093
Andy ended up
in state prison
for the mentally impaired
643
00:45:05,224 --> 00:45:08,314
and died later of a stroke.
644
00:45:08,444 --> 00:45:12,144
He always tried
to be strong for us kids.
645
00:45:12,274 --> 00:45:15,451
But you could
see the brokenness.
646
00:45:15,582 --> 00:45:18,019
You could see the suffering
in him.
647
00:45:21,327 --> 00:45:24,983
Did you ever meet Andy Maltais
before all this happened?
648
00:45:34,035 --> 00:45:35,123
Yeah.
649
00:45:58,277 --> 00:46:01,584
Robin Murphy, you
have her as the key witness
650
00:46:01,715 --> 00:46:04,370
in a homicide case.
651
00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:08,069
And now you have, you know,
the Karen Marsden murder.
652
00:46:18,688 --> 00:46:20,038
Uh...
653
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:11,089
On February 8th,
654
00:47:11,219 --> 00:47:12,481
uh, Karen and I
were out together.
655
00:47:12,612 --> 00:47:15,310
We parted ways.
656
00:47:15,441 --> 00:47:18,139
Um...
657
00:47:18,270 --> 00:47:21,534
I went to Maureen
Sparda's house, aka Sonny.
658
00:47:21,664 --> 00:47:23,405
Uh-huh.
-Um...
659
00:47:23,536 --> 00:47:26,191
My intent that night
was to cheat on Karen,
660
00:47:26,321 --> 00:47:30,499
uh, with Maureen Sparda.
661
00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:35,461
The next day, Karen...
662
00:47:35,591 --> 00:47:37,115
didn't go back
to her grandmother's.
663
00:47:37,245 --> 00:47:41,771
Um, and I couldn't
find her anywhere.
664
00:47:41,902 --> 00:47:44,426
I had talked
to the state police.
665
00:47:44,557 --> 00:47:47,125
Um, they couldn't
do anything about it.
666
00:47:59,398 --> 00:48:01,530
Carl Drew wasn't
getting arrested
667
00:48:01,661 --> 00:48:05,186
for murdering the woman
who said he was gonna do it.
668
00:48:05,317 --> 00:48:08,494
I really wanted him
to not hurt anybody else.
669
00:48:08,624 --> 00:48:10,191
That's all.
670
00:48:13,847 --> 00:48:15,893
Grand jury
murder indictments
were handed down today
671
00:48:16,023 --> 00:48:19,244
for the death of 20-year-old
Karen Marsden.
672
00:48:19,374 --> 00:48:22,116
Ron Pina was the
district attorney at the time.
673
00:48:22,247 --> 00:48:23,291
I'm sure he was under
a lot of pressure
674
00:48:23,422 --> 00:48:25,511
to get this straightened out.
675
00:48:25,641 --> 00:48:29,341
So he corralled Robin.
676
00:48:29,471 --> 00:48:33,345
We have an individual
who has come forward
and talked to us
677
00:48:33,475 --> 00:48:36,783
and has testified
or spoken to us
678
00:48:36,914 --> 00:48:39,873
and identified exactly what
we feel happened that night.
679
00:48:40,004 --> 00:48:43,529
The night when, uh,
Karen Marsden disappeared.
680
00:48:43,659 --> 00:48:47,533
We finally concocted
a story of how she was killed.
681
00:48:57,499 --> 00:49:00,328
I mean, here...
here they've got one witness
682
00:49:00,459 --> 00:49:02,591
that they can
make one deal with,
683
00:49:02,722 --> 00:49:07,335
that serves up on
a silver platter two murders.
684
00:49:07,466 --> 00:49:09,947
You know, it solves everything.
685
00:49:40,542 --> 00:49:41,630
When they
found the skull,
686
00:49:41,761 --> 00:49:43,676
I went there.
687
00:49:43,806 --> 00:49:47,854
I drove to the scene
with the state trooper.
688
00:49:47,985 --> 00:49:49,856
So I did know the layout.
689
00:49:49,987 --> 00:49:52,380
But not because I had
ever been there before.
690
00:50:10,964 --> 00:50:14,707
Prosecutors have an obligation
to do justice,
691
00:50:14,837 --> 00:50:16,578
not just get convictions.
692
00:50:16,709 --> 00:50:19,668
But this was a DA who had
693
00:50:19,799 --> 00:50:21,975
a bunch of unsolved murders
on his hands
694
00:50:22,106 --> 00:50:25,370
and who was approaching
an election campaign.
695
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:28,721
And he was far more interested
696
00:50:28,851 --> 00:50:32,246
in answering public outcry
697
00:50:32,377 --> 00:50:34,422
than he was in doing justice.
698
00:50:34,553 --> 00:50:36,816
We were able to determine
that, uh,
699
00:50:36,946 --> 00:50:39,471
there may have been
more than one individual
involved in the crime.
700
00:51:46,973 --> 00:51:49,845
Prosecutors in the mid-1980s
701
00:51:49,976 --> 00:51:55,329
who have been exposed
to this satanic ritual narrative
702
00:51:55,460 --> 00:51:58,158
might be a lot more likely
703
00:51:58,289 --> 00:52:02,728
to assume that there's something
devil-y going on there.
704
00:52:02,858 --> 00:52:06,253
The willingness by police
officers and attorneys
705
00:52:06,384 --> 00:52:08,734
to embrace these stories
706
00:52:08,864 --> 00:52:12,477
is rooted in the fact
that many of them
707
00:52:12,607 --> 00:52:17,177
were already primed
by a literal Bible belief.
708
00:52:17,308 --> 00:52:22,661
The city of Fall River,
we have like nine Catholic
consecrated churches
709
00:52:22,791 --> 00:52:26,882
in the city, which was
one of the largest anywhere
in the United States.
710
00:52:27,013 --> 00:52:32,149
They had been primed
to believe in a God and a devil.
711
00:52:32,279 --> 00:52:37,154
They would naturally drift
into the narrative that, well,
Satan was behind this.
712
00:53:05,791 --> 00:53:08,750
I plead guilty
to murder in the second degree.
713
00:53:12,798 --> 00:53:13,929
Kenny Sullivan.
714
00:53:14,060 --> 00:53:17,324
He told me I'll get out
in 12 years.
715
00:53:21,023 --> 00:53:24,288
And I would like it at first
because I'm gay.
716
00:53:24,418 --> 00:53:27,726
But did I think women would
still want me at the age of 50?
717
00:53:30,032 --> 00:53:32,339
So I pled guilty that day.
718
00:54:29,004 --> 00:54:31,616
You have
a 16, 17-year-old girl
719
00:54:31,746 --> 00:54:34,445
who is very articulate
720
00:54:34,575 --> 00:54:38,971
and who can be prompted
to say pretty much anything
that people wanted her to say
721
00:54:39,101 --> 00:54:44,150
in order to have the headlines
that these Fall River satanic
cult murders were solved.
722
00:54:44,281 --> 00:54:46,718
"Nothing to worry about, folks,
we put the people away."
723
00:54:46,848 --> 00:54:51,679
Without Robin,
the district attorney
didn't have Carl.
724
00:54:51,810 --> 00:54:54,160
It was almost like
she was the prize
725
00:54:54,291 --> 00:54:56,554
to solve this serious crime
726
00:54:56,684 --> 00:54:59,426
and to put Carl away
at whatever cost.
727
00:55:02,908 --> 00:55:07,652
Robin Murphy looked
a lot different in 1980
than she does today.
728
00:55:07,782 --> 00:55:11,003
In 1980, she looked like
an innocent girl next door.
729
00:55:11,133 --> 00:55:13,397
They intentionally dressed
her up to look that part.
730
00:55:13,527 --> 00:55:16,791
You know, she's wearing little
pleated skirts and, you know,
731
00:55:16,922 --> 00:55:22,841
uh, button-up blouses
and her long hair is cascading
over her shoulders
732
00:55:22,971 --> 00:55:28,020
and she's talking about the
horrific abuse she suffered
at the hands of Carl Drew.
733
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:30,631
I mean, who are you
gonna believe?
734
00:55:54,351 --> 00:55:58,050
Just as we have a God, I do
believe that we have a Satan.
735
00:55:58,180 --> 00:56:02,489
And I also believe that good
always overcomes evil.
736
00:56:02,620 --> 00:56:03,969
It's just how I was raised.
737
00:56:04,099 --> 00:56:06,406
You know,
there's a lot of questions,
738
00:56:06,537 --> 00:56:09,757
and they're probably all going
to remain unanswered.
739
00:56:44,662 --> 00:56:46,054
All right. A little nervous.
740
00:56:46,185 --> 00:56:49,797
I've never
been on camera before, so...
741
00:56:52,147 --> 00:56:53,888
Um...
742
00:56:54,019 --> 00:56:55,673
once.
743
00:56:55,803 --> 00:56:58,676
I was probably about
maybe ten or 11.
744
00:56:58,806 --> 00:57:00,982
My mother's house got raided.
745
00:57:01,113 --> 00:57:03,811
And, um, they had arrested her.
746
00:57:05,378 --> 00:57:06,771
I don't remember
who the cop was,
747
00:57:06,901 --> 00:57:08,990
but I talked to a cop
748
00:57:09,121 --> 00:57:12,080
and I told him about what I saw
and, uh,
749
00:57:12,211 --> 00:57:15,127
I thought it'd get my mother
out of jail.
750
00:57:15,257 --> 00:57:17,738
I don't think
he took me serious.
751
00:57:24,310 --> 00:57:27,182
So when I was probably about,
I don't know, five or six,
752
00:57:27,313 --> 00:57:29,750
I had told my mother that, um...
753
00:57:31,796 --> 00:57:33,928
I had saw these people...
754
00:57:37,279 --> 00:57:39,456
killing... killing a girl.