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-[siren wailing]
-[police radio static]
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[camera shutter clicks]
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[man] Fall River...
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it was a rough place.
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There were so many girls
working the streets
of Fall River at that time.
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There were traffic jams
on Friday and Saturday evenings.
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Doreen at age 17,
she should be in high school.
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Not working the streets.
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The brutality of her murder
is chilling.
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She was face down. She was just
about completely nude.
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[man] She was prostituting
in Fall River.
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And the investigation sort of
went in that direction.
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That's apparently when she ran
into Carl Drew.
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Carl Drew was known as someone
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who was on the street daily,
was a pimp.
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For some reason, I had
a bad reputation out there
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that people knew not to...
not to mess with anything
that was mine.
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He drugged those girls up.
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Carl Drew, did he know me? No.
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Did I know who he was? Yes.
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Carl Drew used Satanism as a way
to control... to control
the women on the street.
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[man] They brought her in a room
and they tied her up and they
dripped blood all over here.
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They had big crosses hung
from the ceiling upside down
and everything.
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[man] Karen was really upset
with Carl Drew.
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She called him the devil.
She said that he was
going to kill her.
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[woman] The police came
to my mother's house
and they questioned me.
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'Cause Karen was missing.
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And at that point we knew
she probably was not missing.
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Robin was caught in the middle
of all this.
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Robin was only 17 years old
at the time.
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Robin was also indicted
for murder.
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She turned state's evidence.
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[female reporter] It has also
been revealed that her murder
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was a ritualistic killing
tied to a satanic cult
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that exists among prostitutes
and pimps in Fall River.
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Robin says that Carl Drew,
the son of Satan,
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told them that they had to
participate because they were
offering her soul to Satan.
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The state police dogs were
hitting on the blood
where she was killed
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where her throat was cut
and she bled out.
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[woman] Carl Drew had nothing
to do with these murders.
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Everybody knows it.
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Everybody.
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♪
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They came to my house
and they said that
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I was being arrested for, uh,
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parole violation
for whereabouts unknown.
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They didn't handcuff me
or nothing.
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And they had me walking down
the stairs in front of them.
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I knew something was up.
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Back then,
you had 15 days to wait
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before you got a hearing
for a parole violation and...
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And on the 15th day, they tell
me I was going to court.
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[female reporter]
Grand jury murder indictments
were handed down today
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for the death of 20-year-old
Karen Marsden.
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The next thing I know,
I'm being accused of murder.
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♪
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[line ringing]
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[automated voice] Hello, this is
a prepaid collect call from...
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[Drew]
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[automated voice]
An inmate at
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Massachusetts Department
of Corrections.
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[Drew]
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Carl Drew was initially charged
with two murders.
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That of Doreen Levesque
and Karen Marsden.
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But the prosecution ultimately
only decided to take one
of the cases to trial.
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And that was the murder
of Karen Marsden.
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[man] The investigators and
the prosecution had a weak case.
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They had a series of murders,
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they didn't really have any
forensic evidence
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that tied Carl Drew
to either of these murders.
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And they decided that the
Levesque case was so weak
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that they would rather put that
into evidence against him
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without having to go through
the process of trying him
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and maybe having him acquitted
on that case.
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[Drew] They tried me
for the Karen Marsden case.
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They used the Doreen Levesque
case as a motive for me
killing Karen Marsden.
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They're sitting there saying
the reason I killed
Karen Marsden
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is 'cause she witnessed me
killing Doreen Levesque.
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[Cutler] Unfortunately, there
is this prior bad acts doctrine
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which allows evidence
of prior bad acts
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to come into evidence simply
if it shows motive or a
consistent course of conduct.
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Even though there's not been
a trial on those prior charges.
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[Boyle] The thinking was that
Doreen was killed because
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she wouldn't work for Carl Drew.
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And no one tells Carl Drew,
"No."
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Doreen Levesque, she was
a nice girl and I would say...
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You wouldn't think
that she was underage.
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But then I found out that she
was only 17 at the time.
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And I wouldn't have nothing
to do with her.
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[man] That's not true.
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He knew Doreen,
she was working the street.
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He had intimidated her, he told
her not to work the street.
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We had talked to so many
young ladies on the street.
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And we had some
great informants.
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Alan Silvia pulled me
in the police department
and, you know what I mean,
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asked me if I knew anything
about Doreen Levesque
and all that stuff.
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And at first, I didn't...
I didn't even realize
who she was.
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[Silvia] Spent very little time
questioning Carl Drew.
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But he also wasn't someone
that we went to on the street
to talk to.
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Well, that night that she was
supposed to have been killed,
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I was at my stepmother,
who was getting married.
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And it was like a gay wedding.
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And I was there at the wedding.
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I had photos of me there.
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There were many aspects
that corroborated
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Carl's innocence story
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that had been omitted
or trampled under at trial.
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Carl, uh, had a
grossly inexperienced attorney
defending him.
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[Silvia] John Birkness
was assigned to Carl
for the murder trial.
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He was a nice man,
but I don't think he should have
been given that assignment.
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[Drew]
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John Birkness, he had never
worked a murder case before.
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And after Carl's case, he never
worked another one again.
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So, you know, right from
the get-go, he pretty much just
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got railroaded every which way.
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♪
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There were these four people
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who claimed to have witnessed
Karen Marsden's murder.
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Robin Murphy, Carol Fletcher,
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Willie Smith, and Carl Davis.
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The two men were charged
and the two women
were given immunity deals
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to testify against the men.
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They were all connected.
They all knew each other.
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They were all working
the streets.
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[horn honks]
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[Drew]
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...and all that shit.
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[Fitzgerald] Robin
and Carol Fletcher.
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They were the witnesses
that were at the scene.
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The deal with
Carol Fletcher was an easy one
for the prosecution to make.
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Because she was there,
she witnessed it,
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00:11:16,284 --> 00:11:19,461
but she was not involved
with the actual killing.
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[Drew] She was one
of these little girls,
what they call a barfly.
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You know what I mean?
She would do tricks for draft
beers and all that stuff.
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Robin, that was a little
bit more problematic.
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[woman] We first heard about
Robin Murphy from the police.
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And it was a very different
person that they trotted
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into court some months later.
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She came in with her little
Peter Pan collar and
a gold cross on her neck.
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00:12:01,590 --> 00:12:04,854
And she looked like butter
wouldn't melt in her mouth.
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00:12:04,985 --> 00:12:10,642
[Boyle] Robin looked
like the girl next door
when she was cleaned up.
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So putting her before a jury
was better for the prosecution.
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[Hayes] The DA's office gave her
a deal for her star testimony.
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She was given
second-degree murder.
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In Massachusetts,
second-degree murder, there's
eligibility for parole.
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00:12:29,618 --> 00:12:33,883
First-degree murder, there's
no eligibility for parole.
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[woman] So if you could stand,
Miss Murphy, as well as anyone
here in the room
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who is here to give testimony,
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stand and raise
their right hand.
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[Cutler] Robin Murphy and
Karen Marsden were pinpointed
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00:13:16,752 --> 00:13:21,191
at the home of the
foster parents
of Karen Marsden's child
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between 7:45 and 8:30 at night.
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00:13:26,588 --> 00:13:30,461
Robin Murphy showed up
at her home in Fall River
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shortly before 10:00.
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So that leaves a less
than two hour window.
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They allegedly hitchhiked
to downtown Fall River,
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which would have taken
at least 20 minutes.
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They were threatened by Carl
and several people
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who allegedly were involved
in the murder scene.
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They drove, uh,
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a half an hour from
Fall River to this woods.
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[Fitzgerald] That's where they
dragged her out of the car,
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00:14:07,542 --> 00:14:10,632
ripped her hair out,
punched her in the face,
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ripped all her clothes
off of her.
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00:14:17,682 --> 00:14:21,556
[Hayes] Robin Murphy actually
killed Karen Marsden.
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00:14:21,686 --> 00:14:26,517
But she says that she did it
because Carl Drew,
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00:14:26,648 --> 00:14:29,956
who was present, made her do it
and she feared for her life.
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00:14:33,742 --> 00:14:36,571
[Charigbliss] She probably told
the truth whenever she could.
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00:14:36,701 --> 00:14:39,922
But if it wasn't convenient,
then we'd tell a lie.
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I think you have to find
that she was at the scene
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and that she knows a good deal
more than she's telling
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because lawyers are asking
very specific questions
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to get at the information
they want.
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That doesn't necessarily paint
an honest picture
of what happened.
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♪
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00:15:19,701 --> 00:15:23,487
[Cutler] They drove half an hour
from Fall River to this woods,
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00:15:23,618 --> 00:15:25,141
half an hour each way.
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And they spent 60 to 90 minutes
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doing this ritual murder,
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after which they claimed
they burned the body,
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00:15:32,888 --> 00:15:35,630
and it took a long time
for that body to burn.
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So that's about three to four
hours worth of activity
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00:15:39,503 --> 00:15:42,115
that couldn't have taken place
in the two hours.
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[Charigbliss] Do I think
she was a liar?
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00:15:51,428 --> 00:15:53,256
Yes.
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They're saying that I did this.
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That I cut the poor girl's head
off and all that stuff.
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00:16:06,443 --> 00:16:10,099
[Cutler] The easiest story
to remember is the truth.
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00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:11,753
When you make up a story,
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00:16:11,883 --> 00:16:15,235
you have no memory to go back to
when you retell that story.
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00:16:15,365 --> 00:16:18,586
If the first story's made up,
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00:16:18,716 --> 00:16:21,328
every single time you tell
that story you're gonna
screw it up.
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00:16:21,458 --> 00:16:22,764
You're gonna
tell it differently.
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00:16:22,894 --> 00:16:25,767
[Boyle] Every time Robin
told the story,
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00:16:25,897 --> 00:16:29,727
there would be some little
differences, there'd be changes
in the story.
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00:16:29,858 --> 00:16:33,905
And as a result, that
complicated the investigation.
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00:16:34,036 --> 00:16:37,605
And that could have posed a
really serious, serious problem
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00:16:37,735 --> 00:16:39,781
for the prosecution.
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00:16:39,911 --> 00:16:46,005
That's why Carol became
such a really key element
in the case.
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00:16:56,841 --> 00:17:00,628
[Fitzgerald] Carol was a friend
of Robin Murphy and Karen.
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00:17:00,758 --> 00:17:02,282
She was another prostitute.
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00:17:08,331 --> 00:17:10,203
We spoke to her several times.
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00:17:10,333 --> 00:17:13,336
And she, you know,
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00:17:13,467 --> 00:17:16,600
did admit that
she had been there,
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00:17:16,731 --> 00:17:21,475
that it was her rental car
that they had used to drive
Karen down to Westport.
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00:17:21,605 --> 00:17:25,087
And she told us the whole story
of when it happened.
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00:17:26,132 --> 00:17:28,395
There wasn't any
cross-examination
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00:17:28,525 --> 00:17:30,919
that you would expect
a real trained attorney...
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00:17:31,050 --> 00:17:32,442
This is a murder case now.
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00:17:34,488 --> 00:17:37,317
[Fitzgerald] We did get
the rental car that Carol
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00:17:37,447 --> 00:17:39,580
had driven
with that group that night
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00:17:39,710 --> 00:17:42,887
and had it tested by the state
police crime lab for blood.
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00:17:43,018 --> 00:17:45,194
Never found any blood.
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00:17:48,893 --> 00:17:53,724
Carl's alibi was that he had
been in a particular bar
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00:17:53,855 --> 00:17:58,599
and had spoken with a particular
bartender that he knew well
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00:17:58,729 --> 00:18:02,342
and several other associates
in that bar on that night...
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00:18:04,866 --> 00:18:08,739
and had several people who
could corroborate each other.
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00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:12,352
[Drew] On February 8th,
a Friday,
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00:18:12,482 --> 00:18:14,658
and Friday nights
is one of the busiest nights,
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00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:17,270
we were on the pier.
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00:18:18,836 --> 00:18:22,536
[Cutler] The lawyer got money
to hire an investigator
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00:18:22,666 --> 00:18:27,410
and tasked the investigator
to go out and interview
the alibi witnesses.
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00:18:28,846 --> 00:18:33,677
And what happened was that
Birkness didn't bother
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00:18:33,808 --> 00:18:35,592
to talk to the investigator
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00:18:35,723 --> 00:18:38,378
until he checked in
with him a year later.
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00:18:41,207 --> 00:18:46,690
And when he checked in with him,
he found out that
the investigator had died.
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00:18:46,821 --> 00:18:48,823
So he hired a new investigator
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00:18:48,953 --> 00:18:50,825
to go back to these witnesses
and say to them,
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00:18:50,955 --> 00:18:54,872
"Do you remember a year ago,
when Carl Drew was with you
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00:18:55,003 --> 00:19:00,313
between this time and that time
on the night of the murder?"
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00:19:00,443 --> 00:19:02,402
I mean, good luck.
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00:19:09,278 --> 00:19:14,631
I guess what you could say
would probably amount
to forensic evidence back then
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00:19:14,762 --> 00:19:18,809
is there was a ring
on the finger of Karen Marsden.
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00:19:18,940 --> 00:19:25,686
And this girl named Leah Johnson
was given the ring by Carl Drew.
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00:19:25,816 --> 00:19:28,776
[Silvia] Leah Johnson
was Carl Drew's girlfriend.
236
00:19:28,906 --> 00:19:33,694
And she had some of the
possessions, at least a ring,
237
00:19:33,824 --> 00:19:36,697
for sure, of Karen Marsden.
238
00:19:36,827 --> 00:19:39,743
And she received it
the same day,
239
00:19:39,874 --> 00:19:43,182
the day after Karen's death.
240
00:19:57,848 --> 00:19:59,415
[Johnson] Well, we...
241
00:20:22,395 --> 00:20:26,399
And she brought the ring
to the state police and said,
"Carl Drew gave me this ring.
242
00:20:26,529 --> 00:20:27,965
I think it's Karen's."
243
00:20:28,096 --> 00:20:30,751
And then Karen's mother
went on the stand and said,
244
00:20:30,881 --> 00:20:32,622
"Yeah,
that's my daughter's ring."
245
00:20:35,756 --> 00:20:38,106
[Boyle] So how did Carl
get the ring
246
00:20:38,237 --> 00:20:42,328
when Karen was wearing it
the night that she was murdered?
247
00:20:43,807 --> 00:20:47,550
The ring placed Carl
at the scene of the homicide.
248
00:20:49,509 --> 00:20:50,901
[Hayes] That's pretty solid.
249
00:20:51,032 --> 00:20:52,468
If it's in fact true.
250
00:20:52,599 --> 00:20:54,818
[Cutler] Leah Johnson,
251
00:20:54,949 --> 00:20:57,908
also alleged to be
a confession witness,
252
00:20:58,039 --> 00:20:59,997
who Carl Drew allegedly
described
253
00:21:00,128 --> 00:21:02,826
a dream that he had in which...
254
00:21:02,957 --> 00:21:09,398
there was a satanic murder
ritual in the woods of, uh,
the victim, but only as a dream.
255
00:21:17,841 --> 00:21:21,541
But none of this
satanic ritual evidence
256
00:21:21,671 --> 00:21:24,021
had to do
with Karen Marsden's murder.
257
00:21:24,152 --> 00:21:26,372
It was just sort of coloring.
258
00:21:32,726 --> 00:21:36,425
♪
259
00:21:43,302 --> 00:21:49,656
There is long been a tendency
for generations to freak out
260
00:21:49,786 --> 00:21:53,573
about the fact that we are
all in moral decline.
261
00:21:53,703 --> 00:21:55,923
I'd like to begin with a fact.
262
00:21:56,053 --> 00:21:59,405
A simple yet shocking fact.
263
00:22:01,015 --> 00:22:05,628
That a moral decay is spreading
through our country...
264
00:22:05,759 --> 00:22:07,935
The world's going straight
to hell in a handbasket.
265
00:22:08,065 --> 00:22:12,026
And they say that we have
a moral decline and that
the families are breaking up
266
00:22:12,156 --> 00:22:16,639
and there's a drug plague
and we're going to lose.
267
00:22:18,424 --> 00:22:23,777
The satanic panic
was this time.
It was the 1980s to about 1995
268
00:22:23,907 --> 00:22:28,825
where there was a moral panic
happening all across
the United States.
269
00:22:28,956 --> 00:22:32,916
And they were kicking over every
rock looking for the devil.
270
00:22:33,047 --> 00:22:35,789
[male reporter] Alpine police
say five young Alpine men
271
00:22:35,919 --> 00:22:38,705
are accused of conducting
satanic rituals.
272
00:22:38,835 --> 00:22:42,143
[man] Friday morning, we had
a call at the Catholic church.
273
00:22:42,273 --> 00:22:45,015
When I arrived,
I noticed two pentagrams
274
00:22:45,146 --> 00:22:47,801
and an inverted cross.
275
00:22:53,850 --> 00:22:57,114
The Puritans absolutely
believed in a material Satan
276
00:22:57,245 --> 00:22:58,942
who worked on people's bodies.
277
00:22:59,073 --> 00:23:01,815
But that Satan
goes away for, like, 200 years
278
00:23:01,945 --> 00:23:03,947
and then shows back up
in the 1980s.
279
00:23:04,078 --> 00:23:05,993
[indistinct chatter]
280
00:23:06,123 --> 00:23:09,953
[male reporter] Police take away
boxes full of bones
281
00:23:10,084 --> 00:23:12,913
and satanic paraphernalia.
282
00:23:13,043 --> 00:23:19,180
The root to the satanic panic
actually leaned back
into the mid-20th century.
283
00:23:19,310 --> 00:23:26,143
That was the time
when we were sort of
head-to-head against Russia.
284
00:23:26,274 --> 00:23:30,278
[man] In this Cold War,
perhaps even more
than in a normal war,
285
00:23:30,409 --> 00:23:33,890
understanding the communist
enemy is terribly important.
286
00:23:34,021 --> 00:23:38,765
[crowd cheering]
287
00:23:38,895 --> 00:23:41,985
They're traitors to America.
Why don't we do something
about it!
288
00:23:42,116 --> 00:23:44,901
They are enemies!
They are not Americans!
289
00:23:45,032 --> 00:23:50,037
[Andrews] A way for the United
States to position itself
as morally superior
290
00:23:50,167 --> 00:23:52,692
was to align ourselves with God.
291
00:23:52,822 --> 00:23:55,782
[man] Our Constitution
was written by men
292
00:23:55,912 --> 00:23:58,306
who put their trust in God.
293
00:23:58,437 --> 00:24:03,746
Christian equals us versus
everybody else who doesn't
believe in God is evil.
294
00:24:07,968 --> 00:24:10,753
So the USSR became satanic.
295
00:24:10,884 --> 00:24:14,061
And we began to incorporate
"in God we trust"
296
00:24:14,191 --> 00:24:16,759
into the national conversation.
297
00:24:16,890 --> 00:24:19,719
We saw televangelists
like Billy Graham
298
00:24:19,849 --> 00:24:21,982
waltzing in and out
of the White House.
299
00:24:22,112 --> 00:24:25,072
[man] To lead America
to the dawning of a new day,
300
00:24:25,202 --> 00:24:27,204
with renewed trust in God...
301
00:24:27,335 --> 00:24:30,077
If you have a culture that's
primed to believe that stuff,
302
00:24:30,207 --> 00:24:33,776
all it takes is one spark
and you've got panic.
303
00:24:33,907 --> 00:24:37,693
♪
304
00:24:42,568 --> 00:24:47,964
In 1980, there was a book
that came out
called Michelle Remembers.
305
00:24:48,095 --> 00:24:53,143
And it was about this woman
who had apparently
had repressed memories
306
00:24:53,274 --> 00:24:56,799
of her childhood and being
ritually abused by Satanists.
307
00:24:56,930 --> 00:25:02,718
[indistinct chanting]
308
00:25:02,849 --> 00:25:05,068
And this was extracted
by her psychiatrist.
309
00:25:05,199 --> 00:25:09,072
And they published together
this book.
310
00:25:09,203 --> 00:25:11,248
[Goodwin] Over the course
of several months,
311
00:25:11,379 --> 00:25:15,165
Pazder hypnotized Michelle.
312
00:25:15,296 --> 00:25:18,255
I'm going to count backwards
from ten to one.
313
00:25:18,386 --> 00:25:22,912
And strongly, strongly
encouraged her
to recover memories
314
00:25:23,043 --> 00:25:27,003
of having been ritually abused
by her mother
315
00:25:27,134 --> 00:25:30,920
and a group
of local Satan worshippers.
316
00:25:35,925 --> 00:25:39,276
The Virgin Mary literally
appears to her
317
00:25:39,407 --> 00:25:44,064
and encourages Michelle to go
forth and basically warn people
318
00:25:44,194 --> 00:25:47,807
that Satan is coming
and we're all in grave danger.
319
00:25:47,937 --> 00:25:51,071
[Andrews] That book propelled
320
00:25:51,201 --> 00:25:55,379
a decade and a half of fear
and paranoia and panic
321
00:25:55,510 --> 00:26:00,080
and the ruining of lives
all across the United States.
322
00:26:00,210 --> 00:26:03,126
Whether Satan exists
is a matter of belief.
323
00:26:03,257 --> 00:26:05,433
But we are certain
that Satanism exists.
324
00:26:05,564 --> 00:26:09,742
To some it's a religion.
To others it's the practice
of evil
325
00:26:09,872 --> 00:26:11,308
in the devil's name.
326
00:26:11,439 --> 00:26:13,746
It exists and is flourishing.
327
00:26:13,876 --> 00:26:18,011
♪
328
00:26:18,141 --> 00:26:20,274
[female reporter] What Ruth saw
when she followed them inside
329
00:26:20,404 --> 00:26:23,364
would later be locked away
to reappear only
330
00:26:23,494 --> 00:26:26,976
for a psychiatrist during
a hypnosis session.
331
00:26:27,107 --> 00:26:29,631
[Goodwin] There are absolutely
people in the mid-1980s
332
00:26:29,762 --> 00:26:34,157
who are like, "Actual Satan
is working through people and
Satan is coming for our kids
333
00:26:34,288 --> 00:26:37,944
and working through our local
officials and possibly our law
enforcement," whatever.
334
00:26:38,074 --> 00:26:41,034
[female reporter] Ruth tells
of a room with an altar,
335
00:26:41,164 --> 00:26:45,473
a table with a black cloth
on it and a big book
and lots of candles.
336
00:26:45,604 --> 00:26:50,130
On the table is her daughter
who's being sexually fondled
by most of the men.
337
00:26:50,260 --> 00:26:52,698
[panting]
338
00:26:52,828 --> 00:26:54,395
I want it to stop.
339
00:26:54,525 --> 00:26:58,051
[man] My mother
keeps her door locked
340
00:26:58,181 --> 00:27:00,488
during the daytime
and she used to didn't do that.
341
00:27:00,619 --> 00:27:05,275
And then... and most
people just, you know,
taking precautions.
342
00:27:05,406 --> 00:27:07,495
It's like anything else.
343
00:27:07,626 --> 00:27:09,062
Once it hits the news media,
344
00:27:09,192 --> 00:27:11,499
you got a hundred people
calling you.
345
00:27:11,630 --> 00:27:15,329
[female reporter] Detective
Alan Alves of the Freetown
Police
346
00:27:15,459 --> 00:27:18,071
is an expert on satanic cults.
347
00:27:18,201 --> 00:27:20,160
[Alves] Some of them are way off
and stuff like that.
348
00:27:20,290 --> 00:27:22,989
Some you looked into and they
turned out to be factual.
349
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,948
Other parts of the country,
there's human sacrifice.
350
00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:27,341
Uh, we don't wanna see any
of that.
351
00:27:27,471 --> 00:27:30,126
Our investigation went way up
352
00:27:30,257 --> 00:27:33,347
even to government officials
and so forth.
353
00:27:33,477 --> 00:27:37,133
[Andrews] The willingness by
police officers and attorneys
354
00:27:37,264 --> 00:27:39,919
and even people
in the mental health profession
355
00:27:40,049 --> 00:27:44,488
to embrace these stories
is rooted in the fact
356
00:27:44,619 --> 00:27:48,362
that if you are one of the
people who's in a moral panic
about the devil,
357
00:27:48,492 --> 00:27:53,062
you will see patterns
which to you are warning signs
358
00:27:53,193 --> 00:27:55,064
that the devil is there.
359
00:27:59,547 --> 00:28:03,377
[man] The question is,
is there a well-organized plot,
360
00:28:03,507 --> 00:28:09,122
an insidious design right now
to program and influence
the minds of our children
361
00:28:09,252 --> 00:28:11,733
towards the occult
and witchcraft?
362
00:28:11,864 --> 00:28:16,216
Yes, there's a vast movement
toward the occult within
the cartoon and toy industry.
363
00:28:16,346 --> 00:28:20,176
Eighty percent of all cartoons
deal directly with the occult.
364
00:28:20,307 --> 00:28:24,833
Smurfs representing
animated dead people.
365
00:28:24,964 --> 00:28:27,357
My Little Pony was satanic.
366
00:28:27,488 --> 00:28:30,056
Uh, Rainbow Brite,
367
00:28:30,186 --> 00:28:32,536
the rainbow was a symbol
of the New World Order
368
00:28:32,667 --> 00:28:36,410
and she had an upside-down
pentagram branded on her face.
369
00:28:36,540 --> 00:28:40,153
So if the cartoon says that
a character has occult powers,
370
00:28:40,283 --> 00:28:42,721
then when the child plays
with the toy,
371
00:28:42,851 --> 00:28:45,201
he is going to use that toy
to cast spells
372
00:28:45,332 --> 00:28:47,203
or do whatever the toy does
in the cartoon,
373
00:28:47,334 --> 00:28:50,380
and they imagine themselves
with these occult powers.
374
00:28:50,511 --> 00:28:54,254
[Alves] There was all kind of
dolls with the eye cut out
375
00:28:54,384 --> 00:28:57,039
because they give the children
drugs and everything else
376
00:28:57,170 --> 00:28:58,824
when they were molesting them
and so forth.
377
00:29:00,260 --> 00:29:03,176
There is great utility
in othering somebody else.
378
00:29:03,306 --> 00:29:07,354
So if I disagree with you,
that's one thing.
379
00:29:07,484 --> 00:29:11,271
But if you are of the devil,
if you're demonic,
380
00:29:11,401 --> 00:29:13,403
if you're evil,
381
00:29:13,534 --> 00:29:16,276
well, now, you know, everything
goes to a whole other level.
382
00:29:16,406 --> 00:29:20,454
[male reporter] That is what
$10,000 worth of burning
records looks like.
383
00:29:20,584 --> 00:29:23,109
[man] The Bible says
what the standards should be
384
00:29:23,239 --> 00:29:26,112
for morality, for a young person
or for any person.
385
00:29:26,242 --> 00:29:28,984
And the rock groups go against
what the Bible say.
386
00:29:31,465 --> 00:29:35,208
[Charigbliss] What out of all of
those satanic stories could you
ever put your finger on and say,
387
00:29:35,338 --> 00:29:37,384
"There's proof."
388
00:29:37,514 --> 00:29:39,255
There is no proof.
389
00:29:39,386 --> 00:29:43,433
It's what anybody believes
at any given moment.
390
00:29:43,564 --> 00:29:48,221
[man] There are some very
obvious ritualistic markings
that will appear on a body
391
00:29:48,351 --> 00:29:51,920
that is the result
of satanic killings.
392
00:29:53,443 --> 00:29:58,535
There's oftentimes a cut
that goes from behind the ear
393
00:29:58,666 --> 00:30:02,322
all the way down to the throat.
394
00:30:02,452 --> 00:30:06,369
Another thing that is oftentimes
done in ritualistic homicides
395
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:10,243
is a penis is placed inside the
mouth of the deceased person.
396
00:30:13,289 --> 00:30:15,988
I think everybody was starting
to realize, you know, this...
397
00:30:16,118 --> 00:30:17,859
this doesn't
make a lot of sense.
398
00:30:19,339 --> 00:30:21,210
[female reporter] The case
appeared to crumble
399
00:30:21,341 --> 00:30:24,170
and the charges against
all the men were dropped.
400
00:30:27,129 --> 00:30:30,437
[man]
401
00:30:30,567 --> 00:30:33,309
Uh... no, it wasn't.
402
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,484
No, it wasn't.
403
00:30:34,615 --> 00:30:36,704
It was crushed.
404
00:30:36,835 --> 00:30:40,273
You know, I'm not saying that no
one ever did a heinous deed
405
00:30:40,403 --> 00:30:43,580
in the name of the devil
because they believed
in a literal Satan.
406
00:30:43,711 --> 00:30:48,194
But in the larger picture
against the backdrop
of the satanic panic,
407
00:30:48,324 --> 00:30:52,111
you know, almost all
of the accusations made
408
00:30:52,241 --> 00:30:54,504
that Satan
was supposedly behind,
409
00:30:54,635 --> 00:30:57,333
all of those just vanished,
they dissolved, they fell apart.
410
00:30:57,464 --> 00:30:58,465
There was nothing to them.
411
00:30:58,595 --> 00:31:00,989
[man]
412
00:31:06,299 --> 00:31:08,170
Right. Yeah.
413
00:31:09,258 --> 00:31:11,521
Yeah.
414
00:31:11,652 --> 00:31:14,568
Uh, because a lot of important
people are involved in it.
415
00:31:14,698 --> 00:31:18,746
I don't wanna sound like a...
[laughs] um...
416
00:31:18,877 --> 00:31:21,183
"conspiry" theorist, you know.
417
00:31:21,314 --> 00:31:25,187
A lot of important people
were involved, you know?
418
00:31:25,318 --> 00:31:27,276
I... even today.
419
00:31:29,452 --> 00:31:32,368
[woman] Q is about getting
to the truth
420
00:31:32,499 --> 00:31:36,372
by educating people
about the truth about
what's really going on.
421
00:31:36,503 --> 00:31:40,376
They take children and they
sacrifice these children.
422
00:31:40,507 --> 00:31:42,117
It's part of Satanism.
423
00:31:42,248 --> 00:31:45,468
The satanic panic
continues today.
424
00:31:45,599 --> 00:31:47,775
-It's evil!
-QAnon,
425
00:31:47,906 --> 00:31:51,518
there's a vast
satanic conspiracy
of Democratic pedophiles
426
00:31:51,648 --> 00:31:53,694
trying to take over the world.
I mean, that's...
427
00:31:53,824 --> 00:31:56,479
That is straight-up
satanic panic.
428
00:31:56,610 --> 00:31:59,308
My fellow Americans,
429
00:31:59,439 --> 00:32:02,616
I stand here with all
the feelings I do,
430
00:32:02,746 --> 00:32:04,661
disgusted with this lie
431
00:32:04,792 --> 00:32:06,620
that Biden has been chosen.
432
00:32:06,750 --> 00:32:12,191
This is now our greatest fight
since the Civil War.
433
00:32:12,321 --> 00:32:16,064
The battle of righteousness
versus Satan.
434
00:32:16,195 --> 00:32:17,674
Yes, Satan.
435
00:32:17,805 --> 00:32:21,287
Because these leftists are evil.
436
00:32:21,417 --> 00:32:24,246
They're doctors, they're
lawyers, police officers
437
00:32:24,377 --> 00:32:26,509
and stuff molesting kids
and everything else.
438
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,338
They shut it down, uh...
439
00:32:29,469 --> 00:32:32,211
-[man]
-The Attorney General's office.
440
00:32:34,735 --> 00:32:37,433
Yeah, yes it is. Yeah.
441
00:32:37,564 --> 00:32:39,131
Yeah.
442
00:32:46,660 --> 00:32:48,836
[Boyle] People
romanticize this case.
443
00:32:48,967 --> 00:32:53,580
They are looking at it as this
is this satanic cult
444
00:32:53,710 --> 00:32:55,756
that's worshipping
in the Freetown State Forest
445
00:32:55,886 --> 00:33:00,369
and they're, you know,
killing babies and cats
and dogs and sheep
446
00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:04,591
and whatever
and they've got altars
hidden deep into the woods.
447
00:33:04,721 --> 00:33:06,985
And that's not what this case
was about.
448
00:33:12,642 --> 00:33:17,430
[Hayes] The things that
were let into evidence of
satanic worshipping and stuff,
449
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,258
I mean, come on.
450
00:33:19,388 --> 00:33:21,564
Why was that even
let in?
451
00:33:21,695 --> 00:33:23,175
It's just a bunch of bullshit.
452
00:33:25,612 --> 00:33:27,614
I wasn't brought up
in a religious family.
453
00:33:27,744 --> 00:33:29,790
I never studied
any kind of religion.
454
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,401
My religion back then
was women.
455
00:33:32,532 --> 00:33:34,403
I just loved
being around women.
456
00:33:36,362 --> 00:33:37,624
I'm not saying that Carl Drew
457
00:33:37,754 --> 00:33:39,887
necessarily participated
in these murders, but
458
00:33:40,018 --> 00:33:41,628
I think it's impossible
459
00:33:41,758 --> 00:33:44,413
to control women to the degree
in which he did
460
00:33:44,544 --> 00:33:47,329
without some sort of fear
of violence.
461
00:34:01,082 --> 00:34:04,042
[Drew] It was a short time
the jurors were out,
the next thing I know,
462
00:34:04,172 --> 00:34:06,914
you know, I'm being called out
there and was standing up
in front of the jury.
463
00:34:07,045 --> 00:34:11,266
And I stood there and says,
"Guilty of first-degree murder."
464
00:34:11,397 --> 00:34:13,355
And I'm in the shock
of my life.
465
00:34:15,705 --> 00:34:18,665
[Silvia] Carl Drew was sentenced
for all of his natural life.
466
00:34:18,795 --> 00:34:20,188
To be imprisoned.
467
00:34:27,761 --> 00:34:30,155
After Carl had a trial,
468
00:34:30,285 --> 00:34:33,636
the other people
he was charged with
in the same series of events,
469
00:34:33,767 --> 00:34:36,770
their charges were dismissed.
470
00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:41,253
If Massachusetts had the death
penalty, this would have been
a death penalty eligible case.
471
00:34:41,383 --> 00:34:46,606
Uh, undeniably. In fact,
the death penalty had just
been eradicated right before.
472
00:34:46,736 --> 00:34:50,305
So if Massachusetts was
a different sort of state,
473
00:34:50,436 --> 00:34:53,308
Carl Drew would
be dead right now.
474
00:34:53,439 --> 00:34:56,746
Carl is in prison for one case,
475
00:34:56,877 --> 00:34:59,488
Karen Marsden's case.
476
00:34:59,619 --> 00:35:02,448
The Doreen Levesque case
is open.
477
00:35:02,578 --> 00:35:03,449
It's unsolved.
478
00:35:03,579 --> 00:35:07,235
♪
479
00:35:25,384 --> 00:35:26,689
[Hayes] I knew Paul Carey.
480
00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:30,432
He was a former
police detective sergeant.
481
00:35:30,563 --> 00:35:32,565
And he was a friend
of my dad's.
482
00:35:32,695 --> 00:35:35,307
[Silvia] Paul Carey,
we were very close.
483
00:35:35,437 --> 00:35:36,873
I worked with him for
484
00:35:37,004 --> 00:35:40,399
probably six
of my 19 years
485
00:35:40,529 --> 00:35:42,575
in major crimes
division.
486
00:35:42,705 --> 00:35:45,360
He participated
in the investigation
487
00:35:45,491 --> 00:35:47,667
every step of the way,
along with myself
488
00:35:47,797 --> 00:35:49,538
and Detective Joaquim.
489
00:35:49,669 --> 00:35:51,497
I mean, it was
a night detective division.
490
00:35:51,627 --> 00:35:54,456
The day guys, I wasn't in charge
of nothing in the day.
491
00:35:54,587 --> 00:35:56,719
That was just the sergeant.
Detective sergeant.
492
00:35:56,850 --> 00:36:00,636
But they asked me
if I would take over
the night detective division.
493
00:36:00,767 --> 00:36:03,378
And I said I would.
494
00:36:03,509 --> 00:36:05,728
Alan and I worked nights,
and eventually
495
00:36:05,859 --> 00:36:07,426
Paul Carey came down
496
00:36:07,556 --> 00:36:08,557
and started working
nights with us.
497
00:36:12,039 --> 00:36:15,216
Nobody worked the case except me
and Alan and Tommy Joaquim.
498
00:36:19,525 --> 00:36:21,570
When I was like 18 or 19,
499
00:36:21,701 --> 00:36:26,662
Paul Carey came by and he said
he'd recently retired.
500
00:36:26,793 --> 00:36:30,797
He had mentioned that he was
gonna be teaching some classes
just part-time, you know,
501
00:36:30,927 --> 00:36:33,756
at local colleges or whatnot,
just to stay busy
502
00:36:33,887 --> 00:36:35,715
'cause he didn't want
to sit around doing anything.
503
00:36:35,845 --> 00:36:38,674
And that he was gonna be
a private detective.
504
00:36:38,805 --> 00:36:41,634
So, and I was in community
college at the time.
505
00:36:41,764 --> 00:36:47,379
And he came by and dropped off
a couple of milk crates
of the actual trial.
506
00:36:47,509 --> 00:36:50,773
And he said, "Why don't you take
a look at these? Read these.
Tell me what you think."
507
00:36:50,904 --> 00:36:55,517
He goes, "Now, just so you know,
all of these cases are my case.
508
00:36:55,648 --> 00:36:58,477
I was the detective sergeant
of the team at the time.
509
00:36:58,607 --> 00:37:02,437
And I just wanna get
to the bottom of it."
510
00:37:15,842 --> 00:37:18,758
[Hayes] He dropped off like four
or five more milk crates
511
00:37:18,888 --> 00:37:22,196
of daily logs, day by day
of what was happening.
512
00:37:22,327 --> 00:37:27,636
And I started with the very
first day of the Doreen Levesque
body being found.
513
00:37:29,159 --> 00:37:30,726
And went all the way
until the day
514
00:37:30,857 --> 00:37:32,380
they arrested Carl Drew.
515
00:38:05,021 --> 00:38:08,677
Now, this wasn't
like I sat down casually,
while watching Wheel of Fortune.
516
00:38:08,808 --> 00:38:09,852
We're talking
a lot of stuff here.
517
00:38:09,983 --> 00:38:12,899
He said,
"So now that I'm retired,
518
00:38:13,029 --> 00:38:15,249
it's been my mission for years.
519
00:38:15,380 --> 00:38:16,859
I've known
this guy's been innocent.
520
00:38:16,990 --> 00:38:21,299
I just couldn't prove it
while I was still a part
of the department."
521
00:38:36,357 --> 00:38:41,710
[Silvia] Paul told me that he
would go to the jail to meet
with Carl quite often.
522
00:38:41,841 --> 00:38:43,669
Which was a shock to me.
523
00:38:43,799 --> 00:38:46,280
Until the day that Paul died
and passed away,
524
00:38:46,411 --> 00:38:48,587
he's always believed
in my innocence.
525
00:38:50,066 --> 00:38:52,025
[Silvia] He wanted
to speak to the...
526
00:38:52,155 --> 00:38:53,940
district attorney at the time.
527
00:38:54,070 --> 00:38:57,726
Asked me to speak to the
district attorney
528
00:38:57,857 --> 00:39:00,120
to talk about
Carl Drew's innocence.
529
00:39:00,250 --> 00:39:03,645
I thought it
was all very strange.
530
00:39:08,215 --> 00:39:11,827
I, me, and him. It's all him.
It's all him. [laughs]
531
00:39:11,958 --> 00:39:14,917
He's an "I" person. Right?
He's an "I" person.
532
00:39:15,048 --> 00:39:18,921
I'm surprised he doesn't
have a sore back from patting
himself all the time. You know?
533
00:39:19,052 --> 00:39:22,925
[laughs]
534
00:39:23,056 --> 00:39:25,319
You could tell him I said so.
535
00:39:25,450 --> 00:39:28,322
[Hayes] He's like,
"I'd like to track down
everybody from the trial.
536
00:39:28,453 --> 00:39:31,978
Just get the truth.
If they all come back and say,
'You know what?
537
00:39:32,108 --> 00:39:36,852
What I said there
was the truth and he did it,'"
he said, "Then, fine."
538
00:39:36,983 --> 00:39:38,680
And he asked me
if I would help him do that.
539
00:39:38,811 --> 00:39:40,682
He said, "You're good
with computers.
540
00:39:40,813 --> 00:39:42,858
You know, here's a list of names
of people.
541
00:39:42,989 --> 00:39:43,816
Can you find them?"
542
00:39:45,861 --> 00:39:47,602
Paul begins a six-year hunt
543
00:39:47,733 --> 00:39:52,128
for Carol Fletcher
and Leah Johnson.
544
00:39:52,259 --> 00:39:54,696
And these were not easy people
to find.
545
00:39:58,831 --> 00:40:01,877
[Hayes] We tracked down
Leah Johnson first.
546
00:40:02,008 --> 00:40:05,838
She was locked up
for drug charges, uh, cocaine.
547
00:40:05,968 --> 00:40:08,928
And so, "Find out when she's
gonna get out."
548
00:40:09,058 --> 00:40:12,714
We were right in front
of the prison when she got out.
549
00:40:12,845 --> 00:40:15,674
And then Paul rolled down
the window and he goes,
550
00:40:15,804 --> 00:40:17,806
"Leah!"
551
00:40:17,937 --> 00:40:20,679
And she looked, she's like,
"Yeah?"
552
00:40:20,809 --> 00:40:22,115
Goes, "Come here,
you remember me?"
553
00:40:22,245 --> 00:40:24,160
She looks in, she goes,
"Yeah, you're Paul Carey."
554
00:40:24,291 --> 00:40:26,946
And he goes, "That's right.
You need a ride somewhere?"
555
00:40:27,076 --> 00:40:29,601
She goes, "Well, yeah,
if you wouldn't mind."
556
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:41,917
Paul had been working on this
for... what, 32, 33 years.
557
00:40:58,325 --> 00:41:01,633
You know, it's chilling
to hear his voice on there.
558
00:41:03,069 --> 00:41:04,897
[Carey] Go ahead, Chris,
you ask the question.
559
00:41:14,123 --> 00:41:15,908
[Carey] Did he say it
was Karen's ring?
560
00:41:18,432 --> 00:41:22,044
Leah Johnson said, "Oh, yeah.
You know, the whole ring story?
561
00:41:22,175 --> 00:41:24,482
That's a bullshit story."
562
00:41:39,801 --> 00:41:41,673
[Carey] Yeah, yeah.
563
00:41:46,591 --> 00:41:49,245
Testimony's supposed
to be voluntary.
564
00:41:49,376 --> 00:41:53,423
And a prosecutor can always say,
565
00:41:53,554 --> 00:41:56,992
"I decided not to charge this
person with this other crime"
566
00:41:57,123 --> 00:42:00,430
and give them immunity in
exchange for their testimony
against this person.
567
00:42:00,561 --> 00:42:04,043
Now, telling someone that you're
not gonna send them to prison
568
00:42:04,173 --> 00:42:08,177
if they testify for you
is inherently coercive.
569
00:42:08,308 --> 00:42:10,876
[Carey] What'd they say
would happen to you?
570
00:42:15,184 --> 00:42:17,796
[Carey] Who told you that?
Anyone in particular or...?
571
00:42:25,194 --> 00:42:28,546
[Carey] You say it definitely
wasn't true, Leah.
572
00:42:42,211 --> 00:42:43,735
-[Johnson gasps]
-[Carey] They actually
showed you that?
573
00:42:45,084 --> 00:42:46,912
[Carey] Before you went to court
or anything?
574
00:42:47,042 --> 00:42:48,261
-[Johnson] Yeah. I...
-[Carey] Oh, my God.
575
00:42:48,391 --> 00:42:50,568
And what did they tell you
how it happened?
576
00:42:52,395 --> 00:42:54,572
[Carey] Oh, my God.
They said that to you?
577
00:43:06,975 --> 00:43:09,499
[Hayes] She signed an affidavit.
She's recorded.
578
00:43:09,630 --> 00:43:13,765
She recants her testimony
knowing she could get
in legal trouble for that.
579
00:43:16,245 --> 00:43:19,118
[Cutler] The chances that he
was gonna find these people
580
00:43:19,248 --> 00:43:23,252
was pretty slim, much less
find them still coherent.
581
00:43:23,383 --> 00:43:25,994
Much less find them willing
to testify.
582
00:43:28,388 --> 00:43:30,869
[Hayes] We located
Carol Fletcher.
583
00:43:30,999 --> 00:43:32,914
She was in a shelter
in Baltimore, Maryland.
584
00:43:35,438 --> 00:43:37,702
Me and Paul drove down there
early in the morning.
585
00:43:37,832 --> 00:43:41,096
We left at like four.
We got there probably
around lunchtime.
586
00:43:41,227 --> 00:43:43,011
Something like that.
587
00:43:43,142 --> 00:43:46,624
And, uh, and we walked in there
and I asked for Carol.
588
00:43:46,754 --> 00:43:51,367
[Carey] Today's
the 23rd of May, 2003.
589
00:43:51,498 --> 00:43:56,634
I'm at the home
of Carol Brooks,
who was Carol Fletcher in 1980.
590
00:43:56,764 --> 00:43:59,375
[Hayes] She's a very fragile,
nervous wreck.
591
00:43:59,506 --> 00:44:03,423
She's got tons of anxiety.
She's on a bunch of medications.
592
00:44:03,553 --> 00:44:07,949
And you can sit and just see
when she's talking
in this interview,
593
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,038
I can remember that tape
when you're playing it.
594
00:44:26,751 --> 00:44:30,885
[Carey] So she really had, uh,
she really put you in fear
of Carl Drew?
595
00:44:32,147 --> 00:44:33,105
She's just saying, you know,
596
00:44:33,235 --> 00:44:35,150
he wasn't there.
597
00:44:35,281 --> 00:44:36,978
[Carey] Now, you were never
a Carl Drew fan,
598
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:38,545
so you have no reason
to tell me a story
599
00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:40,373
that he wasn't there, the only
reason you're telling me
600
00:44:40,503 --> 00:44:42,070
is because he wasn't there,
I assume.
601
00:44:49,251 --> 00:44:52,864
This was a long process.
It took some time to get her
to open up.
602
00:44:55,475 --> 00:45:00,698
After, you know,
many pots of coffee
and many donuts...
603
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,105
Carol finally broke.
604
00:45:30,162 --> 00:45:35,297
♪
605
00:45:35,428 --> 00:45:39,998
[Carey] You were driving around,
Carol, on February the 8th,
around whatever time it was?
606
00:45:58,451 --> 00:46:00,888
[Carey] Did you go anywhere
then? Or did you just, uh...
607
00:46:16,643 --> 00:46:17,992
[Carey] She said that to you?
608
00:46:22,214 --> 00:46:23,432
[Carey] She...
but she didn't say who it was?
609
00:46:23,563 --> 00:46:25,260
Or who was there?
610
00:46:34,269 --> 00:46:36,184
[Carey] She told you that?
611
00:46:44,105 --> 00:46:45,193
[Carey] What kind of car was it?
612
00:46:46,194 --> 00:46:47,413
[Carey] A green Duster. Yeah.
613
00:46:47,543 --> 00:46:48,936
[Johnson] Um...
614
00:47:02,384 --> 00:47:03,298
[Carey]
And then what did you do?
615
00:47:25,581 --> 00:47:28,323
She said,
this is what really happened,
616
00:47:28,454 --> 00:47:33,502
was that Karen was coerced
onto the roof of Harbor Terrace,
617
00:47:33,633 --> 00:47:37,115
Carl wasn't even there,
it never happened in the woods.
618
00:47:37,245 --> 00:47:40,161
It was on the roof
of Harbor Terrace,
619
00:47:40,292 --> 00:47:42,337
which blew us away.
We had no idea about it.
620
00:47:42,468 --> 00:47:45,079
[Carey] How was Karen?
Was she...
621
00:47:45,210 --> 00:47:47,865
Yeah, she was crying, huh?
622
00:47:49,605 --> 00:47:52,347
Robin pulled out a knife,
grabbed her by the hair,
623
00:47:52,478 --> 00:47:53,479
pulled out a knife.
624
00:47:53,609 --> 00:47:55,307
[Carey] You saw what you saw...
625
00:47:55,437 --> 00:47:57,178
You don't know whether
she was killed,
626
00:47:57,309 --> 00:47:59,528
but you saw what you saw
and you left?
627
00:47:59,659 --> 00:48:01,530
-[Johnson] Right.
-[Carey] On the roof?
628
00:48:01,661 --> 00:48:04,272
You saw her
pulling the hair out?
629
00:48:07,667 --> 00:48:10,365
[Carey] The knife and, uh,
and you left?
630
00:48:27,861 --> 00:48:31,386
The revelation that we got
from Carol that no one
had ever gotten before
631
00:48:31,517 --> 00:48:34,694
was that Carol witnessed
632
00:48:34,824 --> 00:48:37,740
Robin Murphy
killing Karen Marsden.
633
00:48:37,871 --> 00:48:40,091
Or she was right nearby
when it happened.
634
00:48:41,875 --> 00:48:46,140
[Hayes] Robin Murphy actually
killed Karen Marsden.
635
00:48:46,271 --> 00:48:49,187
The DA's office made a mistake.
636
00:48:49,317 --> 00:48:51,667
Here was finally
independent evidence
637
00:48:51,798 --> 00:48:55,802
that Murphy had killed Marsden
without Carl Drew being present.
638
00:48:55,933 --> 00:49:01,025
[Hayes] She beat the Fall River
police department,
she got away with murders,
639
00:49:01,155 --> 00:49:05,116
then she went over their heads
and went directly
to the prosecutor.
640
00:49:17,693 --> 00:49:20,392
[Silvia] Robin masterminded
all of this.
641
00:49:20,522 --> 00:49:22,655
I say she's the mastermind?
Yeah, she was.
642
00:49:22,785 --> 00:49:27,529
At 17 years old,
she was able to convince
the district attorney
643
00:49:27,660 --> 00:49:30,750
and the courts Carl
was gonna kill her,
644
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,623
and that she had no choice
but to testify against Carl
for what he did.
645
00:49:34,754 --> 00:49:38,062
[Hayes] You know, you have
to give credit to Robin Murphy.
646
00:49:38,192 --> 00:49:42,327
You know, the only thing you can
say is that she's a lot smarter
647
00:49:42,457 --> 00:49:44,633
than all the fucking people
involved in the case.
648
00:49:44,764 --> 00:49:49,247
♪
649
00:49:54,426 --> 00:49:56,994
[woman]
650
00:50:07,047 --> 00:50:11,530
[Cutler] I filed the motion
for new trial
in September of 2003.
651
00:50:11,660 --> 00:50:14,228
But in May of 2004,
652
00:50:14,359 --> 00:50:16,883
Robin Murphy came up for parole.
653
00:50:17,014 --> 00:50:19,886
[woman] Do you solemnly swear
that the testimony that you give
to the Massachusetts parole...
654
00:50:20,017 --> 00:50:23,281
Detective Sergeant Paul Carey
never really thought
655
00:50:23,411 --> 00:50:26,240
talking to Robin was
gonna be beneficial.
656
00:50:26,371 --> 00:50:28,460
Because Robin
is a manipulator.
657
00:50:28,590 --> 00:50:32,246
She was up for parole soon.
She's not gonna tell on herself.
658
00:50:33,465 --> 00:50:35,206
[woman]
659
00:50:47,392 --> 00:50:50,177
Robin Murphy manipulated them.
660
00:50:50,308 --> 00:50:51,396
She committed these crimes.
661
00:50:51,526 --> 00:50:53,441
[woman]
662
00:51:02,537 --> 00:51:05,149
[woman]
663
00:51:10,589 --> 00:51:13,679
Robin Murphy came before
the state parole board
664
00:51:13,809 --> 00:51:17,509
and admitted to them
that she had lied.
665
00:51:17,639 --> 00:51:21,861
And also, she denied
killing anybody.
666
00:51:21,991 --> 00:51:23,863
It was a really alarming
parole hearing.
667
00:51:23,993 --> 00:51:26,692
And the parole board member
said,
668
00:51:26,822 --> 00:51:28,650
"Hold on, hold on.
669
00:51:28,781 --> 00:51:31,349
Let me get this straight.
You're saying that you lied?
670
00:51:31,479 --> 00:51:33,177
Do you not have any remorse
for this?"
671
00:51:53,849 --> 00:51:56,548
She made up this whole
story about Carl.
672
00:51:56,678 --> 00:51:59,116
[woman]
673
00:52:19,832 --> 00:52:22,487
It was... it was all bullshit.
674
00:52:22,617 --> 00:52:25,142
All bullshit.
675
00:52:39,504 --> 00:52:40,722
If Carl had the opportunity
676
00:52:40,853 --> 00:52:42,376
to testify against Robin,
677
00:52:42,507 --> 00:52:43,725
I think he would have.
678
00:52:43,856 --> 00:52:45,031
He could have done that,
679
00:52:45,162 --> 00:52:46,641
if he was given the same offer.
680
00:52:46,772 --> 00:52:48,165
But he wasn't.
681
00:53:04,529 --> 00:53:06,661
After listening to her
testimony,
682
00:53:06,792 --> 00:53:08,794
the parole board,
the state parole board,
683
00:53:08,924 --> 00:53:10,448
paroled her.
684
00:53:19,457 --> 00:53:22,938
They believed her enough
to put her back on the street
after she'd pled guilty.
685
00:53:23,069 --> 00:53:26,768
She beat the parole board
by saying,
"I'm a changed person.
686
00:53:26,899 --> 00:53:29,728
I'm gonna be a good girl,
I promise."
687
00:53:29,858 --> 00:53:33,645
And she was able to get out
again, even though they knew
she had changed her story.
688
00:53:33,775 --> 00:53:37,518
♪
689
00:53:53,055 --> 00:53:55,449
[McPhee] I tried to speak to
Robin. I went to her house.
690
00:53:55,580 --> 00:53:57,712
I reached out to her attorney.
691
00:53:57,843 --> 00:54:00,672
She steadfastly refused
to speak to me.
692
00:54:00,802 --> 00:54:03,805
I think I got her
on the phone once.
693
00:54:03,936 --> 00:54:05,633
And she called me a liar.
694
00:54:07,853 --> 00:54:10,029
She hasn't told her story.
You know, it's funny,
695
00:54:10,159 --> 00:54:13,641
I kind of lost track
of Robin Murphy
shortly after she was released.
696
00:54:13,772 --> 00:54:16,818
And I was really hoping they'd
put her back in prison.
697
00:54:16,949 --> 00:54:22,259
Robin was finally granted parole
in early 2000. She was released.
698
00:54:24,043 --> 00:54:28,743
She was out for
about seven years, till 2011.
699
00:54:28,874 --> 00:54:33,313
She'd got into a relationship
with a... another felon.
700
00:54:34,793 --> 00:54:37,709
And, unfortunately, that
violated her parole conditions.
701
00:54:54,943 --> 00:54:57,859
[man] Miss Murphy, you pled
guilty and you were committed,
702
00:54:57,990 --> 00:55:00,514
uh, on a second-degree
life sentence
703
00:55:00,645 --> 00:55:01,602
as a result of your plea?
704
00:55:01,733 --> 00:55:02,951
Yes, sir.
705
00:55:03,082 --> 00:55:04,953
Uh, since that time,
you were paroled in 2004.
706
00:55:05,084 --> 00:55:06,738
-Correct?
-Yes, sir.
707
00:55:06,868 --> 00:55:09,088
-You're now back
on a revocation?
-Yes, sir.
708
00:55:09,218 --> 00:55:10,872
-Of that parole? Okay.
-Yes, sir.
709
00:55:11,003 --> 00:55:15,703
♪
710
00:55:19,968 --> 00:55:22,797
[Murphy] My regret
in all that is...
711
00:55:22,928 --> 00:55:25,800
no one will ever find out
what really happened.
712
00:55:25,931 --> 00:55:30,631
Because what I said has now
become what happened.
713
00:55:30,762 --> 00:55:35,332
So the real story won't
really never come out.
714
00:55:37,943 --> 00:55:40,641
[automated voice] Hello,
this is a prepaid collect call.
715
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,949
-[man] How you feeling?
-[Murphy] Exhausted.
716
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:29,603
-[man] Yeah.
-[Murphy] Yeah.
717
00:56:29,734 --> 00:56:32,084
I like how you know
a lot of pieces
718
00:56:32,214 --> 00:56:36,044
and it seems like no one else
ever put any of that together.
719
00:56:36,175 --> 00:56:38,569
-[man] I don't know that...
-[Murphy] I just
find it amazing.
720
00:56:38,699 --> 00:56:40,875
That's crazy.
721
00:56:41,006 --> 00:56:45,489
I tried really hard numerous
times to tell the truth.
722
00:56:45,619 --> 00:56:47,142
No one cares.
723
00:56:47,273 --> 00:56:51,712
I wish that people really knew
what really happened.
724
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,729
♪
725
00:58:11,879 --> 00:58:14,491
[roaring]