1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,000 MARC FENNELL: What happens 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,440 when you take a group of opinionated Australians, 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,560 one hot-button topic close to their hearts... 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,280 How about you just shut your face? No, we've got to go there. 5 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:12,720 They're called love handles for a reason. 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:13,840 (LAUGHTER) 7 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:15,120 ..throw in three courses... 8 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,880 How is that OK? They're using their voice... 9 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:18,920 Wait, wait, wait. Wow. 10 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,240 ..too much information. 11 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,920 You had to look fuckable. You often get distracted during sex. 12 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,880 ..and me, I'm Marc Fennell, 13 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,320 and this is Tell Me What You Really Think. 14 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,800 Australia, you're getting old. 15 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,880 As a population, we are ageing like never before, and fast. 16 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,400 But you know what? Old ain't what it used to be. 17 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,760 This week, the seniors doing things differently. 18 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,960 I am amazed at some of the weights that I'm lifting now. 19 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,880 Whether it's fighting to be fit 20 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,080 or facing and embracing the challenges of a new age. 21 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,400 Hey, Google, help me. Am I getting worse? 22 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:02,440 GOOGLE ASSISTANT: "You're still managing 23 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,720 "so much better than others expect you to." 24 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,840 I honestly believe that technology is the future for us. 25 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,400 Plus, I will be diving head first 26 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,960 into the weird and wild world of longevity science. 27 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,160 MAN: Currently we're measuring Marc's muscle mass 28 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,520 and his fat mass. 29 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:25,360 We've got some great news and some to-work-on news. 30 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:29,920 Hey. Nice to see you. 31 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:32,160 Great to see you. Would you prefer handshake or hug? 32 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,080 I want a hug. Fine. Hug it is. 33 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,680 Joining me tonight, sexologist Dr Linda Kirkman... 34 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,160 Can I pat her? 35 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,280 Hello. How are you? Poodle or cavoodle? 36 00:01:41,320 --> 00:01:42,640 Spoodle. Spoodle. 37 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,800 ..dementia advocate Gwenda Darling... 38 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:46,240 Would you like a quiche? 39 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,000 I'm vegetarian. Vegetarian. 40 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,280 ..drag performer Stan Munro... 41 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,680 ..said, "What are you doing back there?" 42 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,040 (LAUGHTER) 43 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,920 I've been starving. I'm so into this. 44 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,520 ..artist Lindy Lee... 45 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,960 That's what I feel right now. (LAUGHS) 46 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,400 ..and geriatrician Dr John Ward. 47 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,000 You're fairly intimidating, Marc. Intimidating?! 48 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:07,200 I just served you food! 49 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,920 So, we can start? Yeah, yeah. Go, go. Eat, eat. 50 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,080 So, thank you all for being here. 51 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:14,640 I hate to tell you this, 52 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,600 but old people, apparently, are to blame for everything. 53 00:02:17,640 --> 00:02:20,640 Specifically, baby boomers are, according to the headlines, 54 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,960 responsible for the housing crisis, the high cost of education, 55 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,080 the high cost of medicine, climate crisis, 56 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,560 cost-of-living crisis, and, of course, 57 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,720 the continued popularity of Michael Buble. 58 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,120 (LAUGHTER) 59 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:33,160 Which of those things 60 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,560 would you like to personally accept responsibility for? 61 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,400 Definitely not Michael Buble. Oh, OK. 62 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:38,840 Will one of you accept Buble? 63 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,280 Are you going to accept Buble? Yes. 64 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:41,560 You like Buble? Yes. 65 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,760 There you go. It's Stan's problem, then? 66 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,800 One of my sons said to me at Christmas, "OK, boomer." 67 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,360 And I said to him, "Well, it's not my fault. 68 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,480 "I never had any money to start with." 69 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,160 I mean, I've kept the economy going so you can't blame me. 70 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:58,520 I accept no responsibility. 71 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,280 I may be a Karen, but I'm not a boomer in the sense that... 72 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,800 So, when people say terms like "OK, boomer," 73 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,400 what goes through your head, how do you feel? 74 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:08,760 Oh, well, it's a put-down, isn't it? 75 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,400 It's not only an age statement, 76 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,680 it's a, "You're the scourge of society." 77 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,680 My PhD thesis, I interviewed baby boomers. 78 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,880 I called it Baby Boomers In Friends-With-Benefits Relationships. 79 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:25,120 And that was started in 2009. 80 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,600 And baby boomer wasn't a slur then, 81 00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:29,720 and now it really is. 82 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,400 Initially, way back when, it was quite a flattering term, 83 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,080 but we've transitioned to this is an insult. 84 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,560 Trouble is, for some people it's justified too, 85 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,840 with the greedy people who had all the opportunities 86 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:41,760 and then just kept it to themselves. 87 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,520 All those rich middle-class people. Well, yeah. OK. 88 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,480 I mean, I think I probably own that space. 89 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,840 One thing I'd like to say is baby boomers were born 90 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,600 from parents who had experienced war, deprivation. 91 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,920 So, the moment any sense of prosperity came on, 92 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:59,680 um, of course people were going to buy houses 93 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,240 because it was affordable. 94 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,360 So, that's a kind of a natural thing. 95 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,520 But we also had to contend with misogyny, 96 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,040 ah, racism, 97 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:10,640 um, homophobia. 98 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:15,520 So, my generation, I think, have fought hard for inclusiveness. 99 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,800 What this current generation that's coming up is, you know, 100 00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:20,480 being addicted to social media, etc, etc. 101 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,400 I mean, it's going to have its own problems. 102 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,080 All I'm saying, to be even-handed, 103 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,440 is that we all come from certain conditions 104 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,520 and we grow in particular ways. 105 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,080 So, John, that big list of things that baby boomers get blamed for, 106 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,280 is it fair? 107 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,560 I wouldn't necessarily blame baby boomers. 108 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,240 I think, uh, a bit like Lindy Lee, 109 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:44,360 I think it's the context in which people were raised. 110 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,000 I think it's unregulated capitalism. 111 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,720 So, somehow, we became very selfish and greedy. 112 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,800 But I think it's more the system that people grew up in 113 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:56,560 rather than any particular group of people. 114 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,000 So, talk to me about ageism. 115 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,520 How well are we treating our older people in Australia? 116 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:06,080 Appallingly. As a nation, we are letting older people down. 117 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:07,480 When I'm on the phone, 118 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,440 and I might be talking to an operator or something like that, 119 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,600 when they know your age, they immediately go into that... 120 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,080 (INFANTALISING TONE) "Well, what can I help you with, dear? 121 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,080 "What's wrong, dear? 122 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:25,720 "Oh, do have a nice day." 123 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:30,720 And I think, "Oh, for fuck's sake, you know, get over it." 124 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,560 "How are we today?" Yeah... 125 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:33,880 "How are WE today?" 126 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,200 "How are we?" And, "How are you feeling?" 127 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,720 "What are you going to do for the rest of the day?" 128 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,760 Well, I'm going for a fucking walk around the block. 129 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,000 What are you doing? (LAUGHS) 130 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,440 It really shits me when they assume 131 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:46,520 because I've got grey hair 132 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,560 that I'm technologically incompetent. 133 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,560 And I've been using computers since before most of them were born. 134 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,320 We're treated like two-year-olds, you know? 135 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,560 Um, I just fight against ageism all the time. 136 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,120 I wear what I like, I do what I like. 137 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,920 But a lot of people aren't empowered enough to do that. 138 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,240 They've been oppressed all their lives. 139 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:10,080 Can I ask you about your mate down there? 140 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:11,760 Introduce me to your friend over here. 141 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,640 Ms Redleigh? Yeah. 142 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,320 She's a trained assistance dog. 143 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,360 And because of my variant of dementia... 144 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,280 I have behaviour-variant frontotemporal dementia 145 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:22,400 so get excited. 146 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,800 I may take my clothes off at any minute. 147 00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:28,760 I may just abuse the crap out of you because you give me the shits. 148 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,480 OK. How am I doing so far? 149 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,160 Well, I don't know anything about you. 150 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,280 I've never heard of you before. Probably for the best. 151 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,720 So, you're OK. You're just... You're quite a good-looking fella. 152 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:37,800 But you'll do. 153 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,120 I... I really have lost my social filter. 154 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,040 Yeah. And I try, I try very hard. 155 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,640 But when I get agitated or distressed, 156 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,240 Redleigh's straight on it. 157 00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:54,040 If I started telling you to get fucked right now and became... 158 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,240 she's immediately there and she keeps me functioning. 159 00:06:57,280 --> 00:06:58,520 John, do you reckon 160 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,680 you've ever been on the receiving end of ageism? 161 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:02,720 No, I don't think so. 162 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,040 But, then, I'm in a very privileged position. 163 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,040 But I think we could do an awful lot 164 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,760 to make our communities more age-friendly. 165 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,800 And if it was obvious to older people that, 166 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,680 um, the community, the government - at all three levels - 167 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,800 was taking the needs of older people seriously, 168 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,120 that would do a lot to get rid of ageism. 169 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,200 Are older women treated differently to older men? 170 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:27,680 Yes. How so? 171 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,840 Actually, older women are still expected to do things. 172 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,840 They're seen as useless in a physical sense, 173 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:40,480 as in, they can't lift up a table and chairs or do things like that, 174 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,120 but I think they're also expected to continue caring, 175 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,040 continue in their caring roles. 176 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,800 Whereas older men tend to be thrown on the scrapheap. 177 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,240 You know, they really... 178 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,480 If you can't mow the lawns anymore, what good are you? 179 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,840 You're not going to work and bring in the dollar. 180 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,680 You're not mowing the lawns. What can you do? 181 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,880 Women do 'older age' much better than men. 182 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,720 And the reason is that their social role continues 183 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,040 because they've always been daughters, mothers, 184 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:11,680 sisters, friends. 185 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,400 They have more friends, whereas men define themselves 186 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,120 much more by their occupation or their profession. 187 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,560 And when that's no longer there, 188 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,400 they don't then have another social role to easily fall into. 189 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,800 But it's not that other people think they're useless. 190 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,440 They think... It's that self... "Well, I think I'm useless." 191 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,800 And if their sense of self isn't tied to physical capacity, 192 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,000 sexual prowess, 193 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,040 earning a living, those kind of roles, 194 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,680 then that's when they chuck themselves on the scrapheap 195 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,000 as much as someone else chucking them on the scrapheap. 196 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,560 I have to go there. They can still have sexual prowess. 197 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,360 If they don't, we can help them. 198 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,040 Well, that's a whole idea... 199 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,200 No, we've got to go there because that's what we've got. 200 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,520 I'm a sex therapist. I go there a lot. 201 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:57,160 Let's talk about sex. Yeah, absolutely. 202 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:58,280 STAN: What's that? Sex? 203 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,600 Yes. Are you missing out? 204 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:05,880 Oh, big time. I haven't been laid for about 15 years. 205 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,480 And how do you feel about that? Shocking. Dreadful. 206 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,280 Go in to residential care. You'll be right. 207 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:14,360 (LAUGHS) 208 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,480 But we can't talk about it. We've got to pretend it doesn't. 209 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,440 There's a reaction in other generations 210 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,040 when you bring up the concept 211 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,240 of people over the age of 70 having sex. 212 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:24,520 Oh, the ick factor. Yeah. Why? 213 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:26,080 Why does that happen, do you think? 214 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,400 Because we were so secretive. We were taught... 215 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,200 We were brought up not to talk about it. 216 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,480 Another thing to blame baby boomers on. It's your own fault. 217 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,120 But... That's right. (LAUGHS) 218 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,880 But they forget we were the liberated generation as well. 219 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,080 We burnt our bras. Yeah. 220 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,840 We had sex in public places. 221 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,520 So, Linda, you are a sex therapist. 222 00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:48,240 When older people come to you, 223 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,400 what are the sorts of problems they're presenting with? 224 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:51,960 What do they want help with? 225 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,160 The mismatched libido is the most hot topic, always. 226 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,080 And so, what sort of advice do you give? 227 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:59,120 Like, are there practical tips 228 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,840 that you find yourself giving over and over again for older clients? 229 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,240 Know what you want. Ask for what you want. 230 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,280 Be prepared to call a boundary. 231 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,240 I don't think people know what they like. 232 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,160 And because there's a fairly standard sexual script, 233 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,440 particularly the heteronormative sexual script, 234 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,000 there's the... there might be kissing, 235 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,880 maybe some erogenous-zone touching, perhaps some oral sex. 236 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:19,760 Penis in vagina intercourse. 237 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,080 The guy comes. It's all over, red rover. 238 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,280 Um, and quite often, women will fake it, fake an orgasm, 239 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,080 because they're expected to have an orgasm. 240 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,240 And if they say that they haven't, there's conflict as a result. 241 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,680 So, really chucking out the script and going, "Hey, what do you like? 242 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,280 "How do you know what you like? Let's explore and find out." 243 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:39,960 Play, pleasure, curiosity. 244 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,120 Gwenda, how have your sexual preferences changed 245 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,560 since you've got a diagnosis for dementia? 246 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,280 I've become pansexual. 247 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,920 I accept everybody for who they are. I'll go with anybody. 248 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,120 Basically... If it had a pulse. 249 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,040 No, it didn't even have to have a pulse. 250 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,240 I can tell you, cucumbers are better than men. 251 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,680 (LAUGHS) STAN: Now you tell me. 252 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,360 (LAUGHTER) 253 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,960 But then I went through a different stage. 254 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:10,840 I changed from being a heterosexual woman to being pansexual. 255 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,880 But about three years ago I became asexual. 256 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,000 Oh, OK. 257 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,400 Here I am advocating for the rights of older people 258 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,360 to have sexual relationships, but I've actually lost all interest. 259 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,960 I did say to one of my sons, "They'd have to be pretty good now. 260 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,600 "With all my wrinkles, it'd have to be in the dark." 261 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,760 He said, "You forget that everybody who'd could come near you 262 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:32,840 "would be the same way." 263 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,120 But, seriously, we have to stop this argument 264 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,520 that people with dementia don't have capacity. 265 00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:41,520 And this is where, in residential care, 266 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,000 there's a huge responsibility on providers 267 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,640 because they have to keep me safe, 268 00:11:46,680 --> 00:11:50,280 but they also have a duty to allow me to meet my needs. 269 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,040 And this is where Bluetooth penis sheaths, 270 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,000 Bluetooth vibrators, come into their own. 271 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,600 Who's controlling the other end of the Bluetooth? 272 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,760 Well, it can actually be staff. It can actually be a volunteer. 273 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,840 It can actually be a paid sex worker 274 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,640 who's giving you a hug while they're doing it. 275 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:08,200 We can get paid sex workers into residential care. 276 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:14,400 On the gay scene there is, and always has been, ageism. 277 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:20,640 Once you reach a certain age, you might as well be dead, really. 278 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:26,160 I would like someone to cuddle up to and things like that, you know. 279 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,320 Well, who doesn't need a cuddle? 280 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,120 Well, that kind of raises an interesting kind of point. 281 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,640 At the chapter of lives that you're in at the moment, 282 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,720 how much of it is about intimacy and connection 283 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,720 and how much of it is about pleasure? 284 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,840 I think it's much more about relationships 285 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,320 and that shared intimacy. 286 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,800 Um, I think if you've had a close relationship with someone 287 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,360 for a long time, 288 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,680 that intimacy continues. 289 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,800 It may not be terribly physical, but, you know, 290 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,000 it's a very beautiful thing to do at the end of the day, 291 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,920 to just be together. Um, Stan... 292 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,200 I was about to say that I've met a lot of, uh, 293 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,200 straight married men 294 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,880 that have hidden in the closet for years, 295 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,160 and they always say... 296 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,760 And I say to them, "Well, why did you get married?" 297 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,720 And they said, "Because I had to." 298 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,280 Yeah, I've had, in relation to my clients, 299 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,480 I've worked with people who've been in that experience, 300 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,080 who've been bi all their lives 301 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,800 and felt obliged to shut it down for all kinds of reasons. 302 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,520 And then when they're free to express themselves, it's like, 303 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,400 it's like going through another adolescence 304 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,280 except you're in your 60s. 305 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:43,680 Not that long ago, 306 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,320 reaching your 60s meant entering the final chapter of life. 307 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,000 But baby boomers are flipping that script. 308 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,320 Let's wind back to the birth of this generation 309 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,080 from 1946 to 1964. 310 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,320 Australia celebrated the end of World War II 311 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,880 with an unprecedented baby bonanza. 312 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:01,960 At the time, 313 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,440 life expectancy was around 66 for men and 71 for women. 314 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:11,280 Today, those figures sit at 81 for men and 85 for women. 315 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:12,680 Couple that with the fact that 316 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,280 the baby boom has well and truly busted, 317 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,320 and you have got yourself an ageing population. 318 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,440 In 1950, around 8% of Australians were over 65. 319 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,560 By next year it will be 22%. 320 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,960 This year, even the youngest boomer turns 61. 321 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,080 Here's the other thing, 322 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,000 baby boomers aren't just living longer, 323 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:34,920 they're working longer too. 324 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,560 In the past two decades, 325 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,600 the average age of retirement has gone from around 57 to 65, 326 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,720 and some of them don't want to retire at all. 327 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,280 John, are you still working? Yes, I'm semi-retired, 328 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,280 but I'm still working as a geriatrician. 329 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,960 Medically speaking, is there a right age to retire? 330 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,560 Uh, probably well before my age. 331 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,680 Probably, I should have retired. 332 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:09,840 Um, no, I think you, um, you go on until you feel you've had enough. 333 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,520 When it no longer gives you satisfaction, 334 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,080 that's probably the age to retire. 335 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,920 But retiring requires a decision, Marc, that's the problem. 336 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,120 Right. Why is that a problem? 337 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,520 Um, maybe I'm not very good at decisions, 338 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,440 but eventually, you know, I feel I'll know there's a time. 339 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,160 So, Stan, you're 84, yes? I'm 84, yes. 340 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,400 Are you still working? 341 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:39,200 I'm still doing a show here, there and everywhere, 342 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:45,040 and it's called Vintage Drag In Mint Condition. 343 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:46,280 (LAUGHS) 344 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:51,040 And it involves me on stage, and I'm interviewed on stage, 345 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,920 and there's a big screen behind me, 346 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,120 and, um, it shows pictures and movies 347 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,040 that I've had the, you know, the luck to appear. 348 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,760 (DISCO MUSIC) 349 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,800 (STAN SINGS) # Turn Around. 350 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,600 # Stand up like a man and look me in the eye 351 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,600 # Turn around... # 352 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,480 But jobs are very thin on the ground at the moment. 353 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,360 Lindy, what does a good retirement look like to you? 354 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,920 Um, that's a ridiculous question to ask an artist. 355 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,800 An artist just doesn't retire. OK. 356 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,400 Well, because it's your vocation. 357 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,760 You have to be really stupid to be an artist. 358 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,040 It's the only thing you want to do with your life. 359 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,360 You are compelled. It's a compulsion. 360 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,600 So, I'm afraid that's just that, um... 361 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,920 Retirement, um, I think I've said, you know, 362 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,280 like, I'm 71, or 71 in a minute. 363 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:43,400 (LAUGHS) No-one's counting. It's fine. 364 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,440 (LAUGHS) But I just feel as if I've started. 365 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,680 Yeah, it's interesting because you've just unveiled 366 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,200 this sculpture that is, I think, 367 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,560 it's one of the most expensive, elaborate sculptures 368 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:53,640 in Australian history. 369 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,200 And I've heard you say that it was just your apprenticeship. 370 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:57,640 Why did you say that? 371 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:02,760 Because it takes a long time for ideas to bake, 372 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,600 if you're an artist. 373 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,800 I think you have to take a long apprenticeship to your own humanity 374 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:13,040 and a long apprenticeship to being open to the world. 375 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:14,720 And then, with a bit of luck, 376 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,400 and you're practising all the time doing all of this, 377 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,520 then you're ready to really start making stuff. 378 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,800 That's what I feel right now. 379 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,320 MAN: OK, so this is a measure of your basal metabolic rate. 380 00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:29,000 I become a human lab rat 381 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,760 to see just how badly my body is ageing. 382 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,840 And we're using this to get an idea of stroke risk. 383 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,840 And we explore the bleeding edge of longevity science. 384 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,840 Right here. 385 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,600 I think it's a useless, very selfish experiment 386 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,080 this guy's doing. 387 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:54,200 # Happy birthday, dear Eileen 388 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:59,680 # Happy birthday to you. # 389 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,280 The number of Australians living to 100 390 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,560 has skyrocketed in recent decades. 391 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,960 # I wish a wish come true 392 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,520 # I wish a wish the same for you. # 393 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,520 But making it to 110 like Eileen Kramer, 394 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,160 well, that remains extremely rare. 395 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,840 I don't mind being called 110. 396 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,920 I just don't like the general idea of oldness. 397 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,320 Eileen is a renowned dancer who began her career in 1940 398 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:36,760 with one of Australia's very first modern dance companies, 399 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,280 and today she is what statisticians call 400 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,840 a super-centenarian. 401 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,440 (LAUGHTER) Here we go. 402 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,920 (MAN READS) "Eileen, Eileen, Come on, Eileen... 403 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,560 Come on, Eileen. 404 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,320 "Now 110 and our forever dancing queen. 405 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,320 "To Her Royal Highness the Queen of...# 406 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:58,280 It takes a long time to grow up. 407 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:02,880 Most people don't live long enough. 408 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,880 Well, that could all change thanks to a rapidly growing industry 409 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,520 that wants to cheat death. 410 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:10,760 Right here. 411 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,960 We're at this special moment in time. 412 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,880 We have this opportunity to build an existence 413 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,960 that is actually much more expansive and interesting 414 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,800 than anything we can imagine. 415 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,760 Bryan Johnson is the poster boy slash middle-aged man 416 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,520 of the longevity movement, 417 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,080 or as he sometimes likes to call it, the Don't Die movement. 418 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,800 The future is better than we are. 419 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,880 This 48-year-old reportedly spends 2 million USD a year 420 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,080 to effectively become an 18-year-old again. 421 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:45,680 Yes, you might have heard of him. 422 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,240 He's the guy that injected a litre of his 17-year-old son's blood 423 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:50,280 into himself 424 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,760 and then gave a litre of his own blood to his father. 425 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:00,080 And now he claims that he has the erections of a teenager. 426 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:02,040 He might be a little crazy, 427 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,920 but he's far from alone in the longevity trade... 428 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,080 ..which is how you find this freshly 40-year-old TV presenter 429 00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:13,600 here at a longevity clinic in Sydney. 430 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,520 I've come to see this man, Dr Adam Brown, 431 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,560 who is going to carry out a bit of an investigation 432 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,160 into the state of my decrepit ageing body. 433 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,440 We take a proactive approach to health care 434 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,400 rather than a sort of whack-a-mole approach. 435 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,320 Right. Well, I'm in your hands. 436 00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:34,760 (LAUGHS) Where do you want to start? 437 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,120 I suppose the essence of the clinic 438 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:41,720 is we want to get as much bio data as possible. 439 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,240 And that means blood tests. 440 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:45,480 Lots of them. 441 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,880 (LAUGHS) That's an insane amount of blood. 442 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,680 Then come the ultrasounds. 443 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,280 And we're using this to get an idea of stroke risk. 444 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,280 How's it look? Your arteries are looking excellent. 445 00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:59,480 Why, thank you. 446 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:00,920 Glucose monitors. 447 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,720 A VO2 max fitness test. 448 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,360 So, VO2 max is massively associated with longevity. 449 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:11,800 Sure, unless it kills you first. 450 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,480 How was that? Good. 451 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,800 Then there's the DEXA scan. 452 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,480 And currently we're measuring Marc's muscle mass and his fat mass. 453 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,040 Whatever this is. 454 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:31,120 OK, so this is a measure of your basal metabolic rate. 455 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,200 Strength test. You're going well. 456 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:34,960 (GROANS) Oh, OK. 457 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,360 Let's go. Squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, and drop. 458 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,480 Great depth. Keep that range. 24. 459 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,560 And lots of questions. 460 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,240 So, another thing we picked up on your preliminary assessment was, 461 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,440 um, your sleep duration. (LAUGHS) Yes. 462 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:51,600 Tell me about that. 463 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,320 Uh, I have never been much of a sleeper. 464 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:58,200 Uh, I tend to do, on average, sort of 4 to 5 hours. 465 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,160 Anyone who sleeps for an average of under six hours a night, 466 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,040 there is a slight increased risk of Alzheimer's disease. 467 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,400 What about your bowel motions? Yeah? 468 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,040 Do you feel like when you go that it's a full evacuation? 469 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,480 Ooh. Um... 470 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,520 Yeah, that one, you're just gonna have to use your imagination. 471 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,880 All of this, I don't think it's a secret, it's not necessarily cheap. 472 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:21,960 Who comes to you? 473 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,760 What sort of people are coming to you for these sorts of tests? 474 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,280 Sometimes you get the, you know, 475 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,000 the 50-year-old hard-working CEO of a company. 476 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,080 You know, he's let his career take over his life 477 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:36,720 and sort of neglected other parts of his life. 478 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:37,960 You get another sort of patient 479 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,880 who feels like they're extremely fit and healthy, 480 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,320 but we can always find something wrong with people, 481 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:45,480 even if they think they're perfect. 482 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,480 I'm going to come back to Adam for the verdict on my health, 483 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,360 but that was a five-hour appointment 484 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,120 that normally comes with a $6,000-bill. 485 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,120 There's only going to be a teeny tiny percentage of the population 486 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,280 that can really take advantage of something like this clinic. 487 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,000 Meanwhile, over in Newcastle... 488 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,800 (UPBEAT MUSIC) 489 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,840 There's culture out there that once you're 60 or 70 or 80, 490 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,800 we need to just, you know, wrap you in cotton wool 491 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,960 and get you ready to die. 492 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,520 Society is telling you you're old and you're weak, but you're not. 493 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,200 Groundwork Fitness is not your average gym, 494 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,640 and Karl Versteeg 495 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,400 is definitely not your average fitness influencer. 496 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaking, I guess, for myself, because I have cerebral palsy, 497 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,720 the whole thing around me would have been cotton wool. 498 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,760 That's what's happening with the old age here, 499 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,600 is that you look at Google and put in "Strength training for seniors," 500 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,960 and you just see these happy, shiny faces 501 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,320 with 2-kilo dumbbells sitting on a ball. 502 00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:01,280 We can do better. So, how heavy are we talking? 503 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,840 You've got 70, 80-year-olds in here, what are they lifting? 504 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,760 We've got a 75-year-old here 505 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,600 that started on 13 kilos and now lifts 78 kilos. 506 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:15,280 We've got a 70-plus-year-old male lifting 120-kilo deadlift. 507 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,360 The funny thing is, 508 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,120 everyone's going to look at that and go, "Oh wow, that's amazing," 509 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,600 and, "Oh wow," but it's not. It should be the norm. 510 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,600 I am getting stronger and I'm feeling stronger. 511 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,880 I am amazed at some of the weights that I'm lifting now. 512 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,560 Probably, I've got a bit of a problem, I'm a bit gung-ho... 513 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,480 (LAUGHS) ..and I have to get told, 514 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,120 you know, "Hang on, just draw back a bit there, Mister." 515 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,200 Why is it so important 516 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,120 for older people to do strength training? 517 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,160 It just helps in a myriad of different ways. 518 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,080 So, whether it's lifestyle, 519 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:49,200 you've got picking up grandkids, you've got groceries, 520 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,280 you've got walking upstairs, 521 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,720 this is what's going to help people stay living independently. 522 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,160 The driving force for me is that I'm a carer. 523 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,160 My husband's got dementia 524 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,200 and so I need to be fit enough, really, to be looking after him. 525 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,680 And the reason I came here is because after post-op surgery, 526 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,640 on my knees - having knee replacements and hip replacements - 527 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,040 I was just getting stiffer and stiffer. 528 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,320 Now I can squat down and just, you know, get straight back up. 529 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:16,880 A massive improvement. 530 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,720 There'll be, I think, lots of people watching this 531 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,920 thinking, "I couldn't possibly do that. 532 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,280 "What if I get injured?" 533 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,120 What do you say to people? 534 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,440 Well, I've got cerebral palsy and bone-on-bone with my knee, 535 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,360 and I'm still training. 536 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,920 So, basically, no excuses. 537 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,520 Not even for me. 538 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,640 So, we're going to start with some deadlifts. 539 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,040 So, this is probably one of the big four exercises that we do here. 540 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,520 Push your belly to your thighs. 541 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,040 Take a big breath of air 542 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,360 and just pull it up your shins, straight up and then straight down. 543 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,800 Tits to the wall and balls to the floor, for me. 544 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,640 Right. Yep. And then straight down. 545 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,760 This is the biggest bang for your buck. 546 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,960 Like, if you're on a desert island, could only do one lift, 547 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,960 they always say it's either a deadlift or a squat. 548 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,800 How did you get into weightlifting? 549 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,720 My parents got me to start to lift when I was 14 years old. 550 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:19,520 You know, if I don't lift or... mainly do lifts and squats, 551 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,920 of course, I'll be kind of going backwards 552 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,200 and, apparently, into a wheelchair. 553 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:25,480 Up. 554 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:26,960 Down. Breathe out. 555 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,120 Breathe in. That's better. 556 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,160 Yeah. Good. 557 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,720 I'll admit, this is not my first time in a gym, 558 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,160 but the vibe of this place 559 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,360 is unlike anything I've ever experienced. 560 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,440 I don't think older people want to go in and have, you know, 561 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,000 the peacocks walking around 562 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,960 and the 'roid-monkeys and the mirrors and the loud music. 563 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,000 My history with gyms is diabolical, except for this one. 564 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,840 When we were going to some of the other gyms, 565 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,680 their focus wasn't on you. 566 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,320 It was on the young, fit, beautiful people. 567 00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:01,320 This is like exercising with all your friends. 568 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:02,360 your good friends. 569 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,960 It's a really happy place to come to. 570 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,720 Happy, and potentially life-saving. 571 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,120 1 in 4 people, once they get a hip fracture, 572 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,160 end up in the cemetery 12 months later. 573 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:19,320 So, if you're building yourself up for bone and muscle strength, 574 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:21,560 you're going to save yourself a trip to the hospital 575 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,640 or a trip to the cemetery just by being stronger. 576 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,440 Down. 577 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,400 Up. 578 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,400 Eileen Kramer may not be a lifter... 579 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,080 Down. 580 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:35,520 ..but she is militant about exercise. 581 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,120 Touch your toes. Up. 582 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,520 And cross your arms. 583 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,960 And she has another weapon... 584 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,000 I said to her today, 585 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,360 everybody's going to ask you what your secret is. 586 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,040 And she said, "Have something meaningful to do." 587 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,760 And that sort of applies however old you are. 588 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,560 But it, sort of, even more applies to you 589 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,120 when everything else kind of falls away. 590 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,520 She wakes up every day and decides what to create, 591 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,560 be that doing a drawing, 592 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,080 making a...making a story, 593 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:10,800 writing a story, 594 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,280 choreographing a dance. 595 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:14,760 And that's what keeps her alive. 596 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,400 I think I'm just getting started. 597 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,200 Back to the Longevity Clinic. 598 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,400 What are my chances of joining Eileen 599 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,520 in the ranks of the super-centenarians? 600 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,960 We've got some great news and some to-work-on news. 601 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:32,880 Yes. So, we'll start with the good. 602 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,400 So, um, so, basically, um, your lean mass, 603 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:37,840 so your muscle mass, 604 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,200 you are scoring above average for your height. 605 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,240 Great. 606 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,840 Basically, we want this score to be as high as possible, 607 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,400 because as we get older in life, our muscle mass tends to reduce 608 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,320 so we need a reserve. 609 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,560 So, there is some stuff to work on, as with everyone. 610 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,960 Feel like you're buttering me up. (LAUGHS) Yeah. Soften the blow. 611 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,920 Yeah. I think the blow might be that I'm too soft. 612 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:01,960 (LAUGHS) 613 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,040 So, the next thing we look at is the fat mass index. 614 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,760 So, your FMI was eight, so this kind of puts you in the... 615 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,760 Well, the normal range is between 3 and 6. 616 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,360 So it put you in the, sort of, Excess Fat category. 617 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,880 Um, so, again, something to work on. Mmm. 618 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,640 My final report from the clinic runs to 50 pages 619 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,720 with some very sensible suggestions around diet and exercise. 620 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,360 It also suggests that I consider some supplements 621 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,160 that, whilst not proven for humans, 622 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,360 do extend the lives of ageing rats and fruit flies. 623 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,320 As for Bryan Johnson, despite a few setbacks, 624 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,520 he says he's now building a religion 625 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,280 that will become the fastest-growing ideology in history. 626 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,160 What do you think of this world of longevity science? 627 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,480 Well, I think there's two sides to this. 628 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:55,840 One is what this guy is doing, 629 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,840 which I think is both ridiculous and counter-productive. 630 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:04,600 This is a very selfish n-equals-one experiment he's doing. 631 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,480 How much more valuable it would be if he was putting that money 632 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,120 into randomised controlled trials of some of the things he's doing. 633 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:12,960 He's doing a dozen different things. 634 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,600 Nobody's going to know in the end whether any of those helped 635 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,480 or any of those killed him or whatever happens. 636 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,280 So I think it's a useless, 637 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,840 very selfish experiment this guy's doing. 638 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:25,880 However, 639 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:31,040 there are serious researchers working on longevity science, 640 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,600 and I don't see any big problem with that 641 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,160 because I think everybody who's reached a certain age, 642 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,760 like, Stan and I have reached the age of 80, 643 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,520 we would like to go on living a reasonably healthy, 644 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,240 disability-free life for as long as possible. 645 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:49,800 But I think it's much more important 646 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:56,000 to be thinking about putting life into years than years into life. 647 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,640 Lindy, what do you think about longevity science? 648 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:01,680 Oh, god, it frustrates me 649 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,600 because it's just... it's so anti-life, actually. 650 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,240 You know, and, yeah, sure, try it, 651 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,120 but you cannot ever know the moment of your death. 652 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,720 You cannot know, genetically, 653 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,000 if you're predisposed to live to 50 or 110. 654 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,720 None of those things are within your control. 655 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,120 Look, it's really important to be healthy. 656 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,880 It's really... I swim two kilometres most days, 657 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:25,560 you know, because that's just my thing. 658 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,880 I like to be fit, I like to eat reasonably well, 659 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,040 but I have no idea the moment I'm going to die, 660 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,360 I have no idea that all the things that I am doing with my life 661 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,840 won't end in cancer or whatever. 662 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,040 And what frustrates me is 663 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,040 because all of your eggs are being put over in that basket 664 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,880 of reaching 150 years old, or something like that, 665 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,160 and what you're missing out on is your life right now. 666 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,080 Stan, if I could give you a pill that would make you young again, 667 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,160 would you take it? 668 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,960 STAN: Yes, I would take it. 669 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,680 I hate the thought of dying. Yeah? 670 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,560 Mm. I just want to be alive forever. 671 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,200 I've got a habit of, 672 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:13,440 if I'm sitting out on the bench outside IGA, 673 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,760 I will, um, ask a person sitting next to me, 674 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,840 "How old are you?" 675 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,360 and they will say, "Oh, I might, oh, I might be 65." 676 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,160 And I think to myself, "Fuck, I've done well," you know. 677 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,000 Because I walk everywhere. I've never driven a car. 678 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:38,040 And every morning I'm up at 6:30 and I'm exercising the dog. 679 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,040 And... But I do, um, I go to the gym. 680 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,920 But it's what you put in your mouth. 681 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,880 I'm very pedantic about my diet and everything. 682 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,240 I would love to have a hunk of that bread, 683 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,880 but I know it's probably... it'll show up on my on my waist. 684 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,360 You know what I mean? 685 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,280 Well, I think if you're talking about a good older age, 686 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,800 I mean, the short answer is you need three things. 687 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,280 Something or someone to love, 688 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,840 something to do, 689 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,160 and something to look forward to. 690 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,240 Um, and most of those are available to most people. 691 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:17,840 You've got to exercise. 692 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,920 You've got to sleep 7 to 9 hours a night. 693 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:22,560 You've got to eat sensibly. 694 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,000 You've got to drink alcohol moderately, very moderately. 695 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,840 Not smoke. Look after your cardiac-risk factors. 696 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,640 But the most important factor by a mile, 697 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,040 just above exercise, is the relationship business. 698 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,120 So, that's the secret, real secret, to ageing 699 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,640 is to establish and keep those relationships. 700 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,200 Well, I've failed on all counts so there's no hope for me. 701 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:44,400 (LAUGHS) 702 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,360 I eat what I like when I like, 703 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,160 sleep a couple of hours at a time. 704 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,240 I think a sense of purpose is what keeps you going. 705 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,800 You've gotta have a sense of purpose. 706 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,320 But I'm the wrong person to talk to about longevity 707 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,880 because I've been so ready to die for so long. 708 00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:04,880 If I go out and get hit by a car today, don't cry for me. 709 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,480 Just be grateful that you've met me before. 710 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,520 Every day I wake up and think, "Bugger, I'm still here." 711 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:12,840 Still to come... 712 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,520 (BARKING) 713 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,960 ..the technology that could keep you out of aged care. 714 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,360 Without my technology here at home, I couldn't function. 715 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,200 It's helped me to survive. 716 00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:27,880 And what to do when you're ready to die. 717 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,720 I am going to walk naked at a nude beach. 718 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,960 I can sort of determine the time of my death. 719 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,120 I'm not scared of death. Um, death is the easy bit, really. 720 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,680 It's what comes before death that's the hard bit. 721 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,480 At the age of 66, 722 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:08,120 um, I was diagnosed with frontotemporal dementia. 723 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,280 That's the sort of diagnosis that nobody wants. 724 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,040 People say, "Oh, you don't look as if you've got dementia." 725 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,280 I'm not quite sure how people want me to look. 726 00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:26,200 There are hundreds and hundreds of different types of dementia. 727 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:31,000 Alzheimer's the most common. But we all have different symptoms. 728 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,480 Set the alarm to remind me I've got the washing on. 729 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,800 That's set. 730 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,160 With frontotemporal dementia, it's not all about memory. 731 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,360 It's not about losing your keys. 732 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:45,880 It's losing everything. 733 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,280 I became very disorganised. 734 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,160 I lost the ability to multi-skill. 735 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,520 And, um, my friends, um, said to me, "You're really blunt. 736 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,320 "You're abrupt. You're interrupting us. 737 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,280 "You're quite rude. You're not the Bobby we know." 738 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,280 About four years ago things were getting really bad. 739 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,320 I'd had a fire, and things were getting horribly burnt, 740 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,440 and I was throwing away more pans than I could afford. 741 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:22,280 And I had an ACAT assessment for, um...to receive assistance at home. 742 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,400 And the assessor asked the normal questions, 743 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,960 and she talked about the need for me to go into residential care. 744 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,040 I said, "You're kidding me. I can't go into care." 745 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,920 I think going into residential care is everybody's worst nightmare. 746 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,120 For those of us with dementia, um, we tend to get locked away. 747 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,960 (RECORDING OF BOBBY'S VOICE ) Bobby, it's time to log on for your meeting 748 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,120 it's about to start, hurry up. 749 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,640 WOMAN ON LAPTOP: This morning I went to the council inclusion meeting 750 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,240 this morning. Oh, yeah. OK. 751 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,320 And are you going down next week to Dementia Australia in Ryde? 752 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:03,720 Have you been invited down? 753 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,440 Luckily, I have friends who are working in dementia research. 754 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,440 And so I got on to them and I said, "Help me quick." 755 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,080 They gave me all these tips and ideas 756 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,280 and simple, simple technological things. 757 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,120 Now I've got technology everywhere in my home. 758 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,840 I got an electrician come in and fix up my cooker 759 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,440 so that it's now on a timer. 760 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,920 It means that I'm not going to set fire to the house 761 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,200 so that's a really good thing. 762 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,720 I have a motion-detection system 763 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,360 which basically recognises when I'm moving around in the house. 764 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:45,520 That one goes back to a base who send out a text to my daughter 765 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,160 just to let them know that I'm up and about each day. 766 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,360 (WOMAN'S VOICE) Sorry, that's one of my prompts. 767 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,320 Is it time to walk around and have a drink? 768 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,360 That prompt to have a drink and walk around 769 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,840 is to remind me that I need to keep my fluids up 770 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,080 and it's to remind me to go to the bathroom because I can forget, 771 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,440 which isn't pleasant. 772 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,680 (DOG YAPS) Oh, yeah? 773 00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:10,520 (WOOFS) Woof. What? 774 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,680 So, I have this robotic dog. 775 00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:15,200 When he's calm, you can actually feel a heartbeat. 776 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,240 Hello. People love them. 777 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,280 Um, it's just that I don't. 778 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,200 When he keeps wanting to talk to me and yap at me and carry on, 779 00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:28,040 I want to throw him out the window. (BARKS) 780 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,160 (LAUGHS) But that's just me. 781 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,120 The yapping I find really annoying so luckily I can mute it, 782 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:35,520 but then it's a bit creepy 783 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,400 when it's moving around without making any sound. 784 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,440 (PHONE RINGS) 785 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,000 Oh, now the phone's going. There you are. 786 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,040 It's all happening. You're quiet now. 787 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,160 My biggest help is just my telephone, 788 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,840 my alarm system and my telephone. 789 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:52,960 I found out I could record messages. 790 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,320 It's like having a carer living with me, only it's my voice. 791 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,800 (RECORDED MESSAGE) "Hey, Bobby, it's tablet time." 792 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,160 I'm always arguing with myself. 793 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,880 OK. Got it. Yeah, I know, tablet time. I'm going. 794 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,960 Coming. Shh! Stop! Thank you. 795 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,160 My current motto, "The only fear is no Wi-Fi." 796 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,200 (LAUGHS) 797 00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:14,680 Without my technology here at home, I couldn't function. 798 00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:17,080 It's helped me to survive. 799 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,720 Hey, Google, help me. Am I getting worse? 800 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,360 "Some days are better than others. Keep on doing your best. 801 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,520 "You're still managing so much better than others expect you to." 802 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,840 "Be kind to yourself." 803 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,040 Sometimes when you live alone, 804 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,520 you just need somebody to remind you of the things 805 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,000 that you have to remind yourself of at times. 806 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,600 I would actually quite like a robot. 807 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,000 We know that there's not the manpower out there 808 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,440 to look after the ageing population as it is, 809 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,960 and we all want to stay at home. 810 00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,640 None of us want to go into care. 811 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,000 I honestly believe that technology is the future for us. 812 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,480 (RECORDING) "Bobby, it's time to put the washing on 813 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,360 "or take it out or hang it out." 814 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:14,600 I don't believe that necessarily having dementia, 815 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,520 living with dementia, means suffering. 816 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,840 There's me and there's my dementia. 817 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,120 We sit alongside each other. But dementia is not me. 818 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,960 Dementia doesn't make me what I am. 819 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,920 It's just something that gets in the way sometimes 820 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,400 of letting me be what I want to be. 821 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,480 Hey, Google, play An Elegant Affair from Spotify. 822 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,640 "Alright." I've been a dancer all my life. 823 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:39,920 That's what I miss. 824 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,600 There was actually a recent fundraiser 825 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,520 here on the Central Coast. 826 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,240 Dance Against Dementia, they called it. 827 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,840 The guy that was organising it was a really nice man. 828 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,520 When we started dancing, he said, "You're a dancer." 829 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,200 And I said, "I used to be a dancer." 830 00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:57,160 So he said, "I can tell you're a dancer. 831 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,040 "I can feel it in the way you move." 832 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,120 It was one of the nicest things anybody's said to me for a long time 833 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,840 because I recognised that 834 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,520 that's something that has left my life. 835 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,640 And, um, him saying that really made me feel as if, 836 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,680 yeah, you know what, I am a dancer. 837 00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:15,360 I might not be able to dance anymore, 838 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,160 but that doesn't stop me being a dancer. 839 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,520 What do you wish we would change 840 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,800 about the way society deals with people living with dementia? 841 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,160 I wish the stigma would stop. 842 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,360 The minute you get diagnosed, people recoil. 843 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,120 If I had cancer, people would be gathering around, 844 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,000 people would be supporting me. 845 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,400 The minute you're diagnosed with dementia, 846 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,800 your friends leave, people recoil. 847 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,520 So, can you go back and tell me about that moment 848 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,760 when you got the diagnosis? 849 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,360 How did it feel at that moment? 850 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:54,960 I went home to die. 851 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,560 I took to my bed, I stopped showering. 852 00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,240 I'm still ready to die. 853 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,920 I'm not doing it today, 854 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,760 but at that time, I just wanted to die. 855 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:04,920 I wanted to do it quick. 856 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,240 If you don't eat, you don't drink, you've got a good chance of dying. 857 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,120 I was 59 when I was diagnosed with younger-onset dementia. 858 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,840 Dementia is here. It's like Covid. It's running rampant. 859 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,200 We're not going to avoid it because we don't know the cures, 860 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:20,040 we don't know the causes. 861 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,360 We know some modifiable factors, 862 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,520 but I'm a perfect example of modifiable factors. 863 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,080 I've never drunk alcohol I've never smoked cigarettes, 864 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,120 never had a cup of coffee in my life. 865 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,520 I think it's the most neglected illness in our society. 866 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,840 I remember one fellow who was the British boxing champion. 867 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,040 He would run a half marathon each day, 868 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,520 go to the gym, work out, and do boxing. 869 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,920 Then he got younger onset-dementia, he was put into a nursing home, 870 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,040 brought over by his family, put in a nursing home, 871 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,960 and they wondered why he was wandering, intrusive, aggressive. 872 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,800 There was no exercise for him to do. 873 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,280 There was nothing to expend his activity on, 874 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,240 nowhere for him to wander. 875 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:05,240 We don't wander, John, we walk. Change your language. 876 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,160 That's typical geriatrician medical language. 877 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,440 We aren't deficits. You can't talk, "They...." 878 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,400 You have to accept that we are all individuals. 879 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,200 And we walk, we don't wander. 880 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:17,600 I don't mind walking, 881 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,760 but exercising, walking, That's the... 882 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,360 You don't disagree as much as you think you do, I don't think. 883 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,880 This is where you come in with ageism, though, 884 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,040 because with dementia, we talk, we change the language. 885 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,440 Suddenly "they're child-like," suddenly "they wander". 886 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,720 "They have behaviours." 887 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,360 STAN: I would hate to end up with a dementia 888 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,600 that you turn into a really aggro person. 889 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,360 Like me? 890 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,920 No, that lashes out, you know, physically 891 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,560 and has to be, um, kept under control and whatever. 892 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,320 I would hate that. 893 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,880 So, there's been a lot of talk about ageing. 894 00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:02,160 I'm interested in death. 895 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,880 John, what does a good death look like to you? 896 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,880 I... well, I'm in a privileged position again, being a doctor, 897 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,320 I can sort of determine the time of my death. 898 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:15,800 Um, look, it's very much bound up with my wife. 899 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,880 Um, so, uh... 900 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:25,520 ..if she has a problem that restricts the quality of her life, 901 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,680 I think we'd be, probably, happy to go together. 902 00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:28,760 Um. 903 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:38,040 I'm not quite so concerned about the quality of my life. 904 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,000 Although I would never want to wind up in residential aged care, 905 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,040 I would probably do something to end it 906 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,680 before I wound up in residential aged care. 907 00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:50,480 Being a gay man, 908 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,600 the only thing that worries me about getting older is, 909 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,840 um, going into a home, 910 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:03,040 being looked after by people that aren't in my mindset, 911 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,400 you know, would probably think, 912 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,440 "Oh, you know, he's an old poof," you know what I mean? 913 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,240 Until two months ago, 914 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,680 I would have said I'm never going to a residential aged care facility. 915 00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:17,040 I have now found three in Australia that I would go to, 916 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:18,840 which gives everybody hope. 917 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,760 There are some good residential aged care facilities. 918 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,160 I could not have said that three months ago. 919 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:25,280 Interesting. 920 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,280 Gwenda, do you have an end-of-life plan? 921 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,760 Absolutely. Tell me about it. 922 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:34,480 I am going to walk naked at a nude beach, 923 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,280 and I'm going to walk into the ocean. 924 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,640 I came into the world naked, I'll leave naked at a nude beach. 925 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,320 Trouble is that now I've lost my driver's license, 926 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,400 I'm going to have to have somebody assist me 927 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,560 which leaves them vulnerable to the law. 928 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,440 But I will certainly end my life my way. 929 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,800 But voluntary assisted dying, 930 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:58,240 I'm deemed as having no capacity to give authority. 931 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,040 I don't know what I'm doing because I have a dementia diagnosis. 932 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:03,400 So, this is an important point, right? 933 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,640 So, voluntary assisted dying, it is legal throughout Australia 934 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:08,760 but not for people with dementia. 935 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,200 Does that need to change, John. 936 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:12,720 Uh, look, firstly, I'm not sure I agree 937 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,000 that Gwenda does not have capacity. 938 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:16,640 I don't think just because you have dementia, 939 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:17,720 you don't have the capacity. 940 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,400 I think the problem more would be getting someone to say 941 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,600 that Gwenda is going to die within the next 12 months. 942 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,000 That's... Because you've got to have a condition 943 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,360 that's going to kill you within six months 944 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,280 if it's like cancer or something, 945 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,400 or if it's a neurodegenerative disease, within 12 months. 946 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,760 I have put up one person with dementia 947 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,240 for voluntary assisted dying and he was knocked back. 948 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,120 I didn't agree with the decision, but he was knocked back. 949 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,840 What does healthy ageing look like to you, Linda? 950 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,160 It's about attitude, so... Which might be... 951 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,320 I mean, we've got a lot of attitude here 952 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,160 that I think really contributes to your vitality. 953 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:59,000 Um, it's the attitude to want to be, to be satisfied 954 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,640 or to be, to see a completion of a project 955 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:07,840 or to enjoy the connection and intimacy that you do. 956 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,360 But find some... find another mammal to cuddle. 957 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:15,600 Lindy, your mum's over 100 years old. 958 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:20,000 When you ask her now about her life, "What makes a good life?" 959 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,280 What does she say? 960 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,760 Eat no fat. (LAUGHS) 961 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,200 She gave us a whole lecture. 962 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:27,680 "You want to live long, you eat no fat." OK. 963 00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:31,920 One of the best conversations I had with mum was about two weeks ago 964 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:36,960 when I simply asked her, "Mum, are you OK with your life?" 965 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,120 And she most beautifully just sort of turned to me and she grinned 966 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,160 and she said, "Ah...I satisfied." 967 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,880 And like, that is just, you know, that is the best answer possible. 968 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:49,920 Mm. 969 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,120 You promise you'll keep my secret? Yeah. 970 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:53,160 What is that? 971 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,480 Very important. I can't tell anybody else. 972 00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,480 OK, alright. You don't tell anybody. 973 00:47:58,520 --> 00:47:59,720 OK, alright. 974 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:01,600 The secret... Mmm? 975 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:03,680 I love you. (LAUGHS) 976 00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:06,160 I love you too. That's your secret? 977 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,360 (LAUGHS) Yeah, it's a secret. 978 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,240 We all love you. 979 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,080 Yeah, of course. (LAUGHS) 980 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,040 It's funny. Funny secret. 981 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:16,640 JOHN: Well, interestingly, 982 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,160 most older people are happier than younger people. 983 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:20,400 Um, I mean, 984 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:24,200 there's a lot of depression and loneliness in older age. 985 00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:27,360 But if you actually survey the community, 986 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,240 the levels of life satisfaction and happiness 987 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,920 are highest in older people. 988 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,880 So, most people are finding 989 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,440 older age a pleasant part of their life. 990 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,520 Thank you all so much for coming. 991 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,640 And I suppose, in the spirit of Lindy's mum, 992 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,240 I'm gonna toast to being satisfied. 993 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,880 Oh, yes. Cheers. 994 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,320 Thank you all so much. Thank you. Thank you, Marc. 995 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,960 Can't reach all the way over there. My arms are not long enough. 996 00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,440 Coming up next week, enter the menopause warriors. 997 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,120 More than a decade of feeling like shit. 998 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:05,200 But not for everybody. 999 00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:07,840 Not for everybody, but for a lot of women. 1000 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,400 I mean, my mother's generation. 1001 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,480 I remember them being in a cardigan coven 1002 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:12,880 in the corner of the kitchen, 1003 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,600 talking about The Change, you know, as though Voldemort was coming. 1004 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,520 Inside the menopause industrial complex. 1005 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,440 It's really clever marketing. 1006 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,640 Women are being preyed upon 1007 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,920 by companies that are making products 1008 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,800 that say they do stuff that they don't do. 1009 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,120 They're only trading off it because there's a gap. 1010 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,720 GPs definitely need to be not dismissing women. 1011 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,800 Menopause is very natural. It's just part of life. 1012 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:38,880 Yes, it's natural, 1013 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,240 but it doesn't mean that people like us need to suffer. 1014 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,840 I don't want to have to flip this table, but I might. 1015 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,160 Emergency HRT. Emergency over here. 1016 00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,800 And life after menopause. 1017 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,280 Sex gets better and better and better. 1018 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,360 Well, I can't believe I'm even vertical right now. 1019 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:54,760 (LAUGHTER) 1020 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,160 That's next week on Tell Me What You Really Think. 1021 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:03,760 # Think, think, think, think 1022 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,000 # Think, think, think, think. # 1023 00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,040 Captions by Red Bee Media (c) SBS Australia 2025