1 00:00:01,502 --> 00:00:02,920 Tell me a little bit about what brings you in today. 2 00:00:03,003 --> 00:00:06,256 -We lost a son in 2008. -Mm. 3 00:00:06,340 --> 00:00:08,967 [Kim] It's almost too overwhelming to think about. 4 00:00:09,051 --> 00:00:13,680 So I -- I really haven't wanted to look directly at that. 5 00:00:13,764 --> 00:00:16,058 My daughter's bringing it up again. 6 00:00:16,183 --> 00:00:18,060 Right now, they need their mom. 7 00:00:18,185 --> 00:00:20,395 I know you said that you wanted us to all 8 00:00:20,521 --> 00:00:22,564 talk about Joshua. 9 00:00:22,689 --> 00:00:24,733 I'm ready to do that now. 10 00:00:24,858 --> 00:00:26,652 [Lydia on the phone] OK. 11 00:00:26,735 --> 00:00:28,445 [Ethan] Do you know what Zac told me? 12 00:00:28,529 --> 00:00:29,613 He referred to 13 00:00:31,031 --> 00:00:32,448 your daughter as baggage. 14 00:00:34,451 --> 00:00:38,830 And he said that, like, your sexuality or whatever is 15 00:00:38,914 --> 00:00:41,083 something that I should not be OK with. 16 00:00:42,125 --> 00:00:44,378 There's things that the rest of my family wants to talk about 17 00:00:44,461 --> 00:00:45,462 with Lydia and Zac. 18 00:00:45,546 --> 00:00:46,922 If these things aren't addressed, 19 00:00:47,047 --> 00:00:49,758 everyone's gonna kind of push it away and avoid it. 20 00:00:49,883 --> 00:00:54,263 [Kim] I was very hurt that you talked about Joshua. 21 00:00:55,347 --> 00:00:57,766 I really didn't like how it was brought up. 22 00:00:59,268 --> 00:01:02,396 I kind of wanna clear the air with you, Zac. 23 00:01:02,521 --> 00:01:04,188 All the critiques that you give to 24 00:01:05,566 --> 00:01:07,693 the younger kids, it's an overstep. 25 00:01:09,152 --> 00:01:10,654 [Zac] So, I'm a problem for the whole family? 26 00:01:10,737 --> 00:01:12,072 Gotcha, cool. 27 00:01:12,155 --> 00:01:14,324 OK, I'll just...shut up. 28 00:01:14,408 --> 00:01:16,994 I'll -- I'll be never around. 29 00:01:22,164 --> 00:01:24,167 [tense music plays] 30 00:01:27,462 --> 00:01:30,549 [Kim] Is there anything else that anybody wants to share, 31 00:01:30,632 --> 00:01:34,511 or concerns, or thoughts? 32 00:01:34,595 --> 00:01:36,346 [Ethan] I don't know if anyone else wants to say it, but... 33 00:01:39,015 --> 00:01:41,268 I kind of wanna clear the air with you, Zac. 34 00:01:42,978 --> 00:01:45,939 Today, my mom wanted to put together 35 00:01:46,064 --> 00:01:48,900 a surprise anniversary party for Lydia and Zac 36 00:01:48,984 --> 00:01:52,279 and talk about Joshua, celebrate him as well. 37 00:01:52,362 --> 00:01:55,157 And before I do that, clear the air on some things 38 00:01:55,282 --> 00:01:56,408 between us and Lydia and Zac. 39 00:01:57,658 --> 00:01:58,869 I don't wanna be mad at you 40 00:01:58,952 --> 00:02:00,871 or hold anything against you. 41 00:02:00,954 --> 00:02:01,955 Mm-hmm. 42 00:02:02,956 --> 00:02:06,293 If you see us doing things that you think are wrong, 43 00:02:06,376 --> 00:02:09,713 if it's about what card games you play or what shows 44 00:02:09,795 --> 00:02:14,051 the girls watch or whatever, unless we come to you and ask, 45 00:02:14,134 --> 00:02:16,470 I would appreciate it 46 00:02:16,595 --> 00:02:19,014 if you kept those opinions to yourself. 47 00:02:23,685 --> 00:02:25,771 [Kim] The bottom line is we're all family. 48 00:02:25,853 --> 00:02:28,315 -[Zac] Mm-hmm. -And we're a large number 49 00:02:28,398 --> 00:02:30,901 of adults, but we're family. 50 00:02:30,984 --> 00:02:34,154 So we need to give each other the latitude to live 51 00:02:34,279 --> 00:02:37,199 a little bit different life or to have different viewpoints 52 00:02:37,324 --> 00:02:39,368 and accept each other and love each other 53 00:02:39,493 --> 00:02:40,869 where we're at. -Mm. 54 00:02:40,994 --> 00:02:44,665 And the goal with all this is not to pick on anybody, 55 00:02:44,748 --> 00:02:47,334 but just to come closer together, you know? 56 00:02:49,252 --> 00:02:53,507 Zac is pulling us aside, meaning my family members, 57 00:02:53,590 --> 00:02:57,511 spe -- specifically the girls, and telling them what he thinks 58 00:02:57,636 --> 00:02:59,179 they're doing wrong. 59 00:02:59,304 --> 00:03:04,267 Lydia and I went out to Montana to hang out with Moriah, 60 00:03:04,351 --> 00:03:06,770 but there was just, like, consistent things that 61 00:03:08,563 --> 00:03:11,400 I feel like everyone knew that we wouldn't participate in, 62 00:03:11,525 --> 00:03:14,027 like some 18-plus games. 63 00:03:14,152 --> 00:03:16,279 [Isaac] I mean, it was nothing really that bad. 64 00:03:16,363 --> 00:03:18,490 I mean, some of the games were, you know, 65 00:03:18,573 --> 00:03:21,535 some of the dirtier games, but, you know, that's optional 66 00:03:21,618 --> 00:03:23,078 for you to play. You don't have to play. 67 00:03:24,121 --> 00:03:26,498 And we still had a great time. We did a lot outside of that. 68 00:03:26,581 --> 00:03:30,001 But my biggest concern was actually, you know, 69 00:03:30,085 --> 00:03:33,046 Amber's stepping into being a new believer, 70 00:03:33,130 --> 00:03:34,214 choosing to get baptized. 71 00:03:34,339 --> 00:03:38,218 So I just feel like it's important that she doesn't... 72 00:03:39,970 --> 00:03:41,012 engage in this stuff. 73 00:03:42,264 --> 00:03:45,142 I remember talking that through in Montana 74 00:03:45,225 --> 00:03:47,686 and figuring that out and apologizing 75 00:03:47,769 --> 00:03:51,648 for overstepping in -- in ways, but we got through that, 76 00:03:51,732 --> 00:03:54,067 and we came to resolution 77 00:03:54,192 --> 00:03:55,610 and comfort with each other again. 78 00:03:55,736 --> 00:03:56,903 -Like they literally, I -- -[Isaac] Whoa. 79 00:03:57,028 --> 00:03:58,488 That's not what I heard coming from them. 80 00:04:02,325 --> 00:04:04,244 What I did was just, I talked to Moriah. 81 00:04:04,369 --> 00:04:05,370 I was like, "Hey..." 82 00:04:06,747 --> 00:04:08,582 Just be aware of the example you're setting. 83 00:04:09,666 --> 00:04:12,252 And... 84 00:04:12,377 --> 00:04:14,963 Yeah, "Just be aware of -- of the example you're setting 85 00:04:15,088 --> 00:04:17,339 because Amber really looks up to you." 86 00:04:18,884 --> 00:04:20,302 [Moriah] Zac and I already worked through it, 87 00:04:20,427 --> 00:04:22,095 but I just told him, like, 88 00:04:22,179 --> 00:04:25,098 "Work on building relationships with everybody 89 00:04:25,182 --> 00:04:27,684 "so that they know that you're a safe person to go to 90 00:04:27,768 --> 00:04:30,645 "when they want advice and they're looking for advice, 91 00:04:30,771 --> 00:04:35,150 "more so than just, like, you know, picking everything 92 00:04:35,275 --> 00:04:38,111 apart and telling them what you think they should fix." 93 00:04:38,236 --> 00:04:40,405 I mean, I've kind of learned not to care less 94 00:04:40,489 --> 00:04:43,116 if someone's judging me because I'm just like, 95 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,327 "OK, I'll judge you too, fine." 96 00:04:47,537 --> 00:04:49,790 When I left Montana, Kaylynn and Amber told me 97 00:04:49,873 --> 00:04:51,957 they were very uncomfortable in the car drive the whole way. 98 00:04:52,042 --> 00:04:54,252 They felt like they were trapped 'cause you were there in the car 99 00:04:54,336 --> 00:04:55,921 and they couldn't do anything, so I don't know. 100 00:04:56,004 --> 00:04:57,172 -Well then -- -So it's hard to put 101 00:04:57,297 --> 00:04:58,673 that together with what you said, but... 102 00:05:01,468 --> 00:05:04,554 I didn't know that I made Amber and Kaylynn uncomfortable. 103 00:05:05,555 --> 00:05:07,724 I heard Kaylynn and Amber were uncomfortable, you know, 104 00:05:07,808 --> 00:05:09,309 being pulled aside. 105 00:05:09,434 --> 00:05:10,811 I think Moriah felt the same way. 106 00:05:10,936 --> 00:05:13,647 They were invited to her house, and it's really not their place 107 00:05:13,772 --> 00:05:16,525 to pick apart what they think is and is not OK. 108 00:05:16,650 --> 00:05:17,818 Just trying to clear the air 109 00:05:17,943 --> 00:05:19,069 and, you know, communicate about it. 110 00:05:20,487 --> 00:05:23,365 We are all family, so we're gonna talk about each other. 111 00:05:23,490 --> 00:05:25,992 -Because -- -Yeah, but they didn't ask for your opinion, 112 00:05:26,076 --> 00:05:27,244 and they literally felt uncomfortable. 113 00:05:27,327 --> 00:05:30,831 [Zac] But that -- that conversation was to resolve it 114 00:05:30,956 --> 00:05:32,457 and to figure it out. 115 00:05:32,541 --> 00:05:35,877 And there was apologies had, and there was resolution. 116 00:05:36,002 --> 00:05:38,505 -And you guys -- you guys are focusing... -[overlapping dialogue] 117 00:05:38,630 --> 00:05:40,048 ...on the discomfort of it. 118 00:05:40,173 --> 00:05:42,050 I mean, they wanted to just call me 119 00:05:42,175 --> 00:05:43,844 and have me on the phone 'cause they didn't wanna... 120 00:05:43,927 --> 00:05:45,887 That's just what I'm hearing from them. 121 00:05:46,012 --> 00:05:47,347 [Ethan] I'm not trying to get on you, 122 00:05:47,430 --> 00:05:49,724 but I'm just saying I'm -- it has frustrated me. 123 00:05:49,850 --> 00:05:53,770 And I wanna try to build a relationship with you. 124 00:05:53,854 --> 00:05:55,605 And you're a part of the family now. 125 00:05:55,689 --> 00:05:57,023 I can't 126 00:05:58,275 --> 00:06:00,402 build a relationship with you or hang out 127 00:06:00,527 --> 00:06:02,279 or talk to you when that's inside. 128 00:06:02,362 --> 00:06:03,446 Again, like talking to each other, 129 00:06:03,530 --> 00:06:06,199 expressing stuff, getting off, communicating. 130 00:06:06,324 --> 00:06:07,951 That's what I feel I'm trying to do right now 131 00:06:08,034 --> 00:06:10,120 in the best way that I can. 132 00:06:10,203 --> 00:06:11,580 I'm not always very good at that. 133 00:06:17,335 --> 00:06:20,881 Why I -- I felt I needed to speak up was because 134 00:06:20,964 --> 00:06:24,384 you guys, knowing Lydia and I and our lifestyle, 135 00:06:24,509 --> 00:06:27,888 we wouldn't participate in a lot of those things normally. 136 00:06:27,971 --> 00:06:29,472 And so it's like, 137 00:06:29,556 --> 00:06:31,016 for us to even hang out with you, 138 00:06:31,099 --> 00:06:33,602 we have to do all these things that we really don't wanna do. 139 00:06:34,603 --> 00:06:36,438 Well, is that on the host or the guest? 140 00:06:38,481 --> 00:06:40,609 Well, like, if you guys don't drink alcohol, 141 00:06:40,734 --> 00:06:43,653 and I've got alcohol here, you don't have to drink it. 142 00:06:43,737 --> 00:06:44,779 -[Zac] I understand that. -OK. 143 00:06:44,905 --> 00:06:47,115 But if everything that is happening 144 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,451 is something we don't wanna do, 145 00:06:49,576 --> 00:06:52,662 then it just feels like we're not welcome. 146 00:06:52,746 --> 00:06:53,705 But that's not true. 147 00:06:53,788 --> 00:06:55,040 You are welcome, 148 00:06:55,123 --> 00:06:57,250 and we're trying to be welcoming. 149 00:06:57,334 --> 00:06:59,336 It -- I -- 150 00:06:59,419 --> 00:07:01,880 In seeing the way they walk through their lives, 151 00:07:01,963 --> 00:07:04,174 it seems like they wanna go in the direction 152 00:07:04,257 --> 00:07:06,760 of choosing good or God. 153 00:07:06,843 --> 00:07:10,013 And so when they don't, they're making decisions 154 00:07:10,096 --> 00:07:12,474 that maybe aren't so good for their lives. 155 00:07:15,101 --> 00:07:18,271 Well, let me get my point, please, um... 156 00:07:18,396 --> 00:07:21,191 So when they maybe aren't, you know, 157 00:07:21,274 --> 00:07:26,112 playing games or -- or watching shows that are good for you 158 00:07:26,196 --> 00:07:31,493 and, like, make Lydia and I cringe, 159 00:07:31,618 --> 00:07:33,578 I wanna talk about it. 160 00:07:33,662 --> 00:07:38,291 If I'm playing a game, and my wife can't 161 00:07:38,375 --> 00:07:41,127 talk about the cards that she's dealt 162 00:07:41,211 --> 00:07:46,591 because of her moralistic idea of what the words say, 163 00:07:47,717 --> 00:07:49,844 you know, I'm sure I'll say -- 164 00:07:49,970 --> 00:07:51,137 "Why do you wanna play that game?" 165 00:07:51,262 --> 00:07:52,722 -Yeah, it's like -- -It's like, 166 00:07:52,806 --> 00:07:54,683 "Can we choose another game to play that's more..." 167 00:07:54,808 --> 00:07:56,558 [Isaac] Like, there was that, we -- 168 00:07:56,643 --> 00:07:59,270 That happened for a little bit. I didn't enjoy it personally, 169 00:07:59,354 --> 00:08:02,732 but we played countless other games that night... -I don't know if anyone did. 170 00:08:02,816 --> 00:08:04,818 ...and there were other things we were doing. 171 00:08:04,943 --> 00:08:06,820 the majority of the time. -[Zac] Yeah, and I felt welcomed then. 172 00:08:06,903 --> 00:08:10,156 And I'm not, again, I'm not generalizing the whole time, 173 00:08:10,281 --> 00:08:11,241 by any means. -Yeah. 174 00:08:11,324 --> 00:08:12,492 I think it's just, 175 00:08:13,660 --> 00:08:17,539 there's specific things that we disagreed with. 176 00:08:17,664 --> 00:08:20,250 I personally don't think a 16-year-old should be 177 00:08:20,332 --> 00:08:21,918 participating in some of these things. 178 00:08:23,253 --> 00:08:26,798 Potentially, Zac may be, like, exerting himself, 179 00:08:26,881 --> 00:08:29,009 his opinion, in a jurisdiction that he really shouldn't 180 00:08:29,134 --> 00:08:30,677 be concerned about. 181 00:08:30,802 --> 00:08:33,847 I'm at the point where I trust Amber pretty good. 182 00:08:33,972 --> 00:08:37,142 If she's gonna make mistakes, then let her make them 183 00:08:37,225 --> 00:08:39,477 and then -- then we can talk about it. 184 00:08:39,561 --> 00:08:42,772 Hey, if someone asks, then give your opinion. 185 00:08:42,856 --> 00:08:45,775 If someone's not asking for your opinion, 186 00:08:45,859 --> 00:08:47,861 maybe in this gray area, just 187 00:08:47,944 --> 00:08:50,530 you don't need to say anything. 188 00:08:53,283 --> 00:08:56,911 I do appreciate that they care about Amber and they care about 189 00:08:57,037 --> 00:08:59,873 the things she's exposed to and how she's raised. 190 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:05,712 I definitely would rather that than them not care at all. 191 00:09:06,713 --> 00:09:09,549 Barry and I have changed. We've let up on a lot of things. 192 00:09:09,632 --> 00:09:12,135 But ultimately, they're my kids. 193 00:09:12,218 --> 00:09:13,511 They're Barry's kids. 194 00:09:13,595 --> 00:09:17,182 We're the ones that need to decide things on raising them. 195 00:09:18,641 --> 00:09:22,395 I've had, you know, some people say we're too strict. 196 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,230 Other people say we're not strict enough. 197 00:09:24,314 --> 00:09:25,607 I feel like you can't win. 198 00:09:25,732 --> 00:09:27,358 And if Zac really feels like something 199 00:09:27,442 --> 00:09:29,736 that they're doing is bad, he needs to talk to me about it, 200 00:09:29,861 --> 00:09:30,945 not the girls. 201 00:09:32,947 --> 00:09:34,991 Zac apologized, and he hasn't done 202 00:09:35,075 --> 00:09:36,076 anything like that since then. 203 00:09:36,201 --> 00:09:40,121 And if people don't want our opinions, 204 00:09:40,246 --> 00:09:41,289 we won't give our opinions. 205 00:09:41,414 --> 00:09:43,958 And, Ethan, I don't know if you were aware of, like, 206 00:09:44,959 --> 00:09:46,086 just the situation. 207 00:09:46,169 --> 00:09:48,546 Like, Zac was hearing so many things 208 00:09:48,630 --> 00:09:50,423 about Teegan from everyone 209 00:09:50,548 --> 00:09:52,592 that he just wanted to hear it from you. 210 00:09:52,675 --> 00:09:55,470 I appreciate you looking out for me, but, you know, 211 00:09:57,222 --> 00:09:59,891 I wasn't looking for your opinion. 212 00:09:59,974 --> 00:10:01,101 I wasn't giving it. 213 00:10:01,226 --> 00:10:03,603 I was really just trying to understand, 214 00:10:03,686 --> 00:10:06,397 because I heard so many things, like, concerns 215 00:10:06,481 --> 00:10:07,899 and ups and downs, and I just was like, 216 00:10:07,982 --> 00:10:10,068 "Well, what is it then?" 217 00:10:10,151 --> 00:10:12,362 Zac helped me work on my New Yorker. 218 00:10:12,445 --> 00:10:14,447 Zac pulled me aside afterwards and he was like, 219 00:10:14,531 --> 00:10:17,158 "You know, I know you feel like you need to go to Wisconsin, 220 00:10:17,283 --> 00:10:20,411 "but there's some things that I see with Teegan that I think 221 00:10:20,495 --> 00:10:21,663 you should be concerned about." 222 00:10:21,788 --> 00:10:24,124 And there's a couple of things. 223 00:10:24,249 --> 00:10:27,043 One of them was that she has a child, 224 00:10:27,127 --> 00:10:30,839 and Teegan's little daughter 225 00:10:30,964 --> 00:10:33,675 is the best thing that has ever happened to Teegan. 226 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,218 That's her whole world. 227 00:10:35,301 --> 00:10:36,553 Even if it was coming from a good place, 228 00:10:36,636 --> 00:10:39,389 it was completely disrespectful to Teegan. 229 00:10:39,472 --> 00:10:41,641 It was extremely judgmental. 230 00:10:45,979 --> 00:10:47,647 I just feel like time and time again, 231 00:10:49,899 --> 00:10:52,819 Zac's always misunderstood and misrepresented, 232 00:10:52,902 --> 00:10:54,320 and that just hurts me. 233 00:10:54,404 --> 00:10:57,407 And he hasn't gone about everything in the perfect way 234 00:10:57,490 --> 00:11:01,202 every time, but his heart's always been perfect. 235 00:11:05,999 --> 00:11:08,001 [dramatic music builds] 236 00:11:16,467 --> 00:11:18,428 I'm still trying to be a brother. 237 00:11:19,637 --> 00:11:20,763 Trying. 238 00:11:41,367 --> 00:11:45,079 [voice breaking] And I never was a brother to other brothers, and I just... 239 00:11:49,709 --> 00:11:51,377 I don't know, I -- 240 00:11:51,461 --> 00:11:53,671 Am I supposed to just wrestle them? 241 00:11:53,755 --> 00:11:56,716 And just -- I don't know. I don't know what to do. 242 00:12:02,931 --> 00:12:04,891 [Zac] It feels like we're pulling an arm and a leg 243 00:12:04,974 --> 00:12:07,393 to get you guys to just come over and hang out. 244 00:12:07,518 --> 00:12:09,145 The door is always open. 245 00:12:09,229 --> 00:12:12,398 [Teegan] Zac makes it seem like they're excluded, 246 00:12:12,523 --> 00:12:13,733 but I know they're not. 247 00:12:13,816 --> 00:12:15,777 But then at the same time, if they're included, 248 00:12:15,902 --> 00:12:18,780 they need to be catered to 100%. 249 00:12:19,906 --> 00:12:21,574 I'm not gonna change my entire lifestyle 250 00:12:21,699 --> 00:12:23,243 to be in their life, and they're not gonna change 251 00:12:23,368 --> 00:12:24,994 their entire lifestyle to be in mine. 252 00:12:25,078 --> 00:12:27,497 You're exporting your opinion into lands 253 00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:29,415 that don't wanna import? -Yep. 254 00:12:30,458 --> 00:12:32,252 So, um... 255 00:12:33,336 --> 00:12:35,255 Is this a bad conversation? 256 00:12:35,338 --> 00:12:38,341 I'm going into this knowing that it has potential to be 257 00:12:38,424 --> 00:12:39,926 a very painful conversation. 258 00:12:49,435 --> 00:12:51,437 [dramatic music plays] 259 00:13:03,157 --> 00:13:07,120 I think part of the reason why we've gone about 260 00:13:07,203 --> 00:13:10,039 doing some of this in the way we have is because 261 00:13:10,164 --> 00:13:13,084 we're always doing stuff with you guys 262 00:13:13,209 --> 00:13:15,878 and doing what you guys want, 263 00:13:16,004 --> 00:13:19,966 and Barry and the girls are great at coming to Tallahassee 264 00:13:20,049 --> 00:13:22,051 and stopping by, but I don't... 265 00:13:23,803 --> 00:13:26,306 Like, it feels like we're pulling an arm and a leg 266 00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:29,225 to get you guys to just come over and hang out sometimes. 267 00:13:30,268 --> 00:13:32,270 I'm not holding anything against you guys. 268 00:13:32,395 --> 00:13:35,315 I just, you know, since we're right here, you know... 269 00:13:35,398 --> 00:13:37,150 -[Kim] Yeah. -...45 minutes away, I think. 270 00:13:38,234 --> 00:13:39,569 It'd be cool to just see that. 271 00:13:42,071 --> 00:13:44,115 [Isaac] Nobody's intentionally trying to avoid them. 272 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,743 If anything, it's just we get really busy. 273 00:13:46,826 --> 00:13:48,745 I have a hard time finding myself, you know, 274 00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:50,163 with a bunch of extra free time. 275 00:13:50,246 --> 00:13:52,790 But when I do, I have gone down there. 276 00:13:55,752 --> 00:13:57,170 Well, I think I've -- 277 00:13:57,253 --> 00:13:59,756 -Obviously, I think we both want to build relationship, -[Kim] Yeah. 278 00:13:59,881 --> 00:14:02,300 and so I'm just trying to see what we can do about that. 279 00:14:02,425 --> 00:14:03,801 The door is always open. 280 00:14:06,637 --> 00:14:09,223 I think I've come every time I've been invited. 281 00:14:12,977 --> 00:14:14,520 A year ago today was 282 00:14:14,604 --> 00:14:16,230 one of the hardest days of my life, so... 283 00:14:18,524 --> 00:14:20,401 I'm just kind of in a cloud right now. 284 00:14:25,865 --> 00:14:27,408 -That's that. -Yeah. 285 00:14:30,244 --> 00:14:32,288 [Kim] Lydia has said that, you know, 286 00:14:32,413 --> 00:14:34,332 we haven't seen them very much. 287 00:14:34,457 --> 00:14:36,125 We haven't made an effort, but I mean, 288 00:14:36,209 --> 00:14:37,668 we've had them out here to the farm. 289 00:14:37,794 --> 00:14:39,629 Lydia and I met for coffee. 290 00:14:39,712 --> 00:14:40,922 I've been to their place. 291 00:14:41,005 --> 00:14:43,466 I went and got a cheesecake for Zac for his birthday 292 00:14:43,591 --> 00:14:45,134 'cause I know that he likes cheesecake. 293 00:14:49,305 --> 00:14:53,643 Zac makes it seem like they're excluded, which I mean, 294 00:14:53,726 --> 00:14:54,894 I haven't been around the family a lot, 295 00:14:54,977 --> 00:14:56,145 but I know they're not. 296 00:14:56,270 --> 00:14:58,314 But then at the same time, that if they're included, 297 00:14:58,439 --> 00:15:01,734 they need to be catered to 100%. 298 00:15:01,818 --> 00:15:04,570 So I don't know, That's a tricky line to walk. 299 00:15:05,822 --> 00:15:07,365 [Ethan] Well, basically, my boundary 300 00:15:08,366 --> 00:15:11,035 for myself moving forward, unless I come to you and say, 301 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,162 "What are your thoughts on me moving to Wisconsin?" 302 00:15:13,246 --> 00:15:15,289 Or, "What are your thoughts on me playing this game?" 303 00:15:15,373 --> 00:15:19,293 I would appreciate it if you kept your opinions 304 00:15:19,377 --> 00:15:21,254 to yourself and don't tell me it's right or wrong or whatever. 305 00:15:21,337 --> 00:15:22,880 Don't tell the girls it's right or wrong. 306 00:15:24,382 --> 00:15:27,760 And if you feel convicted of something, then, 307 00:15:27,844 --> 00:15:29,178 you know, don't participate. 308 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:31,681 If you think that 309 00:15:32,849 --> 00:15:34,934 you could respect that, I would appreciate it 310 00:15:35,017 --> 00:15:38,813 for myself and my siblings. 311 00:15:40,857 --> 00:15:44,527 Yeah, I mean, I understand, and I will respect your wishes. 312 00:15:49,824 --> 00:15:50,825 That I need to shut up. 313 00:15:52,452 --> 00:15:53,453 Duly noted. 314 00:15:55,121 --> 00:15:56,330 I'm not perfect. 315 00:15:56,414 --> 00:16:00,668 I know I very well could have judged them wrongly. 316 00:16:00,751 --> 00:16:02,795 I just wish my heart was understood, 317 00:16:02,879 --> 00:16:06,799 that I care and love as much as I can. 318 00:16:08,092 --> 00:16:09,802 We just don't know how to include ourselves. 319 00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:13,764 And...yeah. 320 00:16:15,725 --> 00:16:17,852 What are some things you'd like to do with us? 321 00:16:18,895 --> 00:16:20,563 I don't know, maybe more random bonfires 322 00:16:20,688 --> 00:16:23,065 or random stuff around the farm. 323 00:16:23,191 --> 00:16:25,485 You know, if you want a -- want help building 324 00:16:25,568 --> 00:16:29,530 a four wheeler trail, we'll come do it, you know. 325 00:16:29,614 --> 00:16:33,284 Uh-huh -- sometime when the cabin isn't booked, 326 00:16:33,409 --> 00:16:36,120 you guys come up, we can spend the day fishing. 327 00:16:36,245 --> 00:16:37,288 -I think -- -For snakes. 328 00:16:37,413 --> 00:16:38,539 [Cassia] Fishing for snakes. 329 00:16:38,623 --> 00:16:41,167 I think we could cook what we fish, what we catch. 330 00:16:41,250 --> 00:16:43,252 If y'all catch the fish, I will cook all the fish. 331 00:16:43,377 --> 00:16:45,213 -Yes. -I'll fillet 'em, I'll cook 'em. 332 00:16:45,296 --> 00:16:49,300 I was gonna, like, start a fire and just stick a stick in there and... 333 00:16:49,425 --> 00:16:50,968 Well, you can do yours that way. 334 00:16:51,093 --> 00:16:53,095 [all laugh] 335 00:16:55,431 --> 00:16:57,600 [Kim] I feel like this has been really productive. 336 00:16:57,683 --> 00:16:59,018 I feel like it's been good. 337 00:16:59,101 --> 00:17:02,104 Everybody kind of got a chance to, 338 00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:03,814 you know, voice what was bothering them, 339 00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:06,901 and now it's done and cleared and off the table 340 00:17:06,983 --> 00:17:08,569 and we can... 341 00:17:11,196 --> 00:17:13,366 -Move forward, -...move forward, yeah. 342 00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:20,957 It really leaves us confused 343 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,291 because it goes right back to 344 00:17:23,376 --> 00:17:25,461 us being the outsiders looking in. 345 00:17:25,586 --> 00:17:27,296 It felt like we were being talked to. 346 00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:31,050 How do you move forward? 347 00:17:33,219 --> 00:17:35,137 I guess we'll have lunch and just kinda hang out 348 00:17:35,221 --> 00:17:37,098 for a little bit, and then this afternoon 349 00:17:37,181 --> 00:17:38,975 we're gonna set up, um, 350 00:17:39,976 --> 00:17:42,144 a little area and talk about Joshua. 351 00:17:42,270 --> 00:17:43,896 So you can be thinking about that. 352 00:17:43,980 --> 00:17:44,981 Yep. 353 00:17:50,111 --> 00:17:51,112 Come on. 354 00:17:54,156 --> 00:17:55,658 [background chatter] 355 00:17:57,702 --> 00:17:58,703 [Lydia and Zac speaking] 356 00:18:01,998 --> 00:18:03,457 I mean, just from the beginning, 357 00:18:03,541 --> 00:18:06,085 you could tell our lifestyles were different enough 358 00:18:06,168 --> 00:18:10,047 that we probably just wouldn't mesh well, and so... 359 00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:13,092 I'm not gonna change my entire lifestyle 360 00:18:13,175 --> 00:18:14,635 to be in their life and they're not gonna change 361 00:18:14,719 --> 00:18:16,262 their entire lifestyle to be in mine, 362 00:18:16,345 --> 00:18:17,638 and that's just what's happening. 363 00:18:19,765 --> 00:18:21,225 [Lydia] You can't just sit here and say, 364 00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:23,728 "Oh, everything's good, everything's OK," when it's not, 365 00:18:24,895 --> 00:18:30,026 and I -- I can see it in Zac. 366 00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:34,488 He got shot down from the beginning. 367 00:18:34,572 --> 00:18:37,283 And for him to 368 00:18:37,366 --> 00:18:41,412 want to care and try to show that care in the best way 369 00:18:41,537 --> 00:18:45,207 he knows how and for it to be taken as disrespectful is... 370 00:18:51,505 --> 00:18:52,840 I really don't have the words. 371 00:18:55,426 --> 00:18:57,428 [tense music plays] 372 00:19:04,685 --> 00:19:07,229 -They're hungry. -[Zac] Yeah. 373 00:19:07,313 --> 00:19:09,982 -They're always hungry. -[Zac] Oh, chickens -- 374 00:19:10,066 --> 00:19:12,068 I'm not surprised. -[Barry] Chickens are always looking for stuff. 375 00:19:12,151 --> 00:19:13,152 [chickens clucking] 376 00:19:13,235 --> 00:19:14,403 [Zac] Got some eggs in there. 377 00:19:16,072 --> 00:19:18,741 [Barry] Yeah. There's some eggs in there. 378 00:19:20,242 --> 00:19:22,578 After the conversation, I talked to Barry 379 00:19:22,662 --> 00:19:23,746 'cause I know I could talk to him. 380 00:19:23,871 --> 00:19:25,581 I'm glad they -- they brought it up, 381 00:19:25,706 --> 00:19:29,085 because I didn't know it was still bothering some people. 382 00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:32,922 And I didn't know the extent of how people felt about it, so. 383 00:19:33,005 --> 00:19:35,633 I had no idea -- I was coming in cold on that one. 384 00:19:35,758 --> 00:19:36,759 Yeah. 385 00:19:36,842 --> 00:19:38,135 I was not familiar with everything 386 00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:41,889 that went on in Montana. -Right -- yeah. 387 00:19:42,848 --> 00:19:46,268 I've definitely learned a lot today of just how I can 388 00:19:46,394 --> 00:19:48,270 sometimes overstep and how sometimes I'm -- 389 00:19:49,605 --> 00:19:52,358 I'm too talkative or whatever, so. 390 00:19:52,441 --> 00:19:55,820 Yes, you're exporting your opinion into lands 391 00:19:55,945 --> 00:19:58,072 that don't wanna import. -Yep. 392 00:19:58,155 --> 00:19:59,532 -[Barry chuckles] -Yep. 393 00:19:59,615 --> 00:20:01,492 Jurisdictional boundaries, right? 394 00:20:01,617 --> 00:20:02,618 [Zac] Yeah. 395 00:20:02,702 --> 00:20:04,537 You got to know the jurisdictional boundaries. 396 00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:08,332 Who's more offendable and who's less offendable. 397 00:20:08,457 --> 00:20:10,793 -[Zac] Yeah. -You gotta take that into consideration. 398 00:20:10,918 --> 00:20:12,128 Yeah. 399 00:20:14,171 --> 00:20:15,172 Um... 400 00:20:18,676 --> 00:20:19,677 I mean, I agree. 401 00:20:21,971 --> 00:20:24,306 -So Ethan's growing, right? -Yeah. 402 00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:25,433 Taller. 403 00:20:29,019 --> 00:20:30,396 I feel bad for Lydia, like... 404 00:20:31,397 --> 00:20:32,523 -[Teegan] Yeah. -But... 405 00:20:32,648 --> 00:20:33,649 I do too. 406 00:20:34,817 --> 00:20:35,818 I think 407 00:20:37,653 --> 00:20:40,197 it was better to at least say it than just 408 00:20:41,949 --> 00:20:43,826 keep it to ourselves. 409 00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:46,912 Yeah, you took accountability, you know, 410 00:20:46,996 --> 00:20:49,457 so I can appreciate that. -Mm-hmm -- mm-hmm. 411 00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:55,671 [Ethan] I would like to think that 412 00:20:55,796 --> 00:20:57,631 I've grown. 413 00:20:57,715 --> 00:20:59,341 I hope that I have. 414 00:20:59,467 --> 00:21:03,304 Definitely being more empathetic and understanding of 415 00:21:03,387 --> 00:21:04,847 how I make someone else feel. 416 00:21:07,224 --> 00:21:08,225 I probably... 417 00:21:10,644 --> 00:21:13,063 shouldn't have started a serious relationship 418 00:21:13,189 --> 00:21:15,191 after getting out with everything with my ex-wife. 419 00:21:17,234 --> 00:21:19,403 But I'm still learning. 420 00:21:20,696 --> 00:21:21,697 I'll keep working on it. 421 00:21:24,825 --> 00:21:26,994 It's great to hear that you're wanting to talk 422 00:21:27,077 --> 00:21:28,412 about Joshua more. -Yeah. 423 00:21:29,413 --> 00:21:30,706 I know Lydia's excited for it. 424 00:21:30,790 --> 00:21:34,460 I'm aware that Zac likes to have really deep conversations, 425 00:21:34,543 --> 00:21:38,714 but I don't know that "excited" is the word I would pick. 426 00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:42,885 I don't understand Kim and how she just operates. 427 00:21:50,601 --> 00:21:52,603 [dramatic tones play] 428 00:21:57,149 --> 00:21:58,651 [Zac speaking] 429 00:21:58,776 --> 00:22:00,861 -[Kim] Yeah. -I'll probably hang out with, 430 00:22:02,196 --> 00:22:03,823 I guess only Teegan. 431 00:22:03,906 --> 00:22:06,075 I don't know anyone else here that -- 432 00:22:06,158 --> 00:22:07,910 yeah, I'll hang out with Teegan. -Yeah. 433 00:22:07,993 --> 00:22:11,163 -Ken will be around, you know. -[Zac] OK. 434 00:22:12,373 --> 00:22:14,959 -[Kim] Oh, thank you. -We got the mail. 435 00:22:15,042 --> 00:22:16,710 I think we haven't checked the last few days. 436 00:22:16,836 --> 00:22:18,838 We've been -- we've been busy. 437 00:22:18,921 --> 00:22:20,506 Well, it's good to have the whole family in town, 438 00:22:20,589 --> 00:22:23,509 and thanks for -- thanks for having us, too. 439 00:22:23,592 --> 00:22:26,136 I think it's great to hear that you're wanting to talk 440 00:22:26,220 --> 00:22:27,471 about Joshua more. -Yeah. 441 00:22:27,555 --> 00:22:28,806 -[Zac] That's awesome. -Yeah. 442 00:22:28,889 --> 00:22:30,891 And I know Lydia's excited for it, so... 443 00:22:31,016 --> 00:22:32,059 [Kim] Mm-hmm. 444 00:22:32,184 --> 00:22:34,019 -I'm excited for it too, just to see... -[Kim] Yeah. 445 00:22:35,437 --> 00:22:36,772 ...the whole family talking about it... -[Kim] Yeah. 446 00:22:36,856 --> 00:22:38,983 and coming together to do it too -- it's really cool. 447 00:22:39,066 --> 00:22:40,359 Yeah. 448 00:22:40,442 --> 00:22:44,071 I'm aware that Zac likes to have really deep conversations, 449 00:22:44,196 --> 00:22:47,616 but I don't know that "excited" is the word I would pick. 450 00:22:48,617 --> 00:22:50,286 She's really excited to just be able to share this 451 00:22:50,369 --> 00:22:52,204 with her family who experienced it with her. 452 00:22:52,329 --> 00:22:56,542 -So that's awesome. -Yeah, yep -- yeah. 453 00:22:56,625 --> 00:22:57,710 It's great. 454 00:22:59,879 --> 00:23:02,172 I've given up trying to fix things and making 455 00:23:02,256 --> 00:23:04,508 every relationship work and every relationship perfect. 456 00:23:04,592 --> 00:23:08,053 And with, like, with my mom and Zac, 457 00:23:08,178 --> 00:23:10,556 whether they choose to spend time together 458 00:23:10,639 --> 00:23:11,974 and grow or not... 459 00:23:15,394 --> 00:23:16,395 time. 460 00:23:22,401 --> 00:23:26,989 Um...grief is definitely more complicated, 461 00:23:27,072 --> 00:23:28,240 I feel like, at times, so. -Yeah. 462 00:23:29,450 --> 00:23:30,826 I don't understand Kim 463 00:23:30,910 --> 00:23:36,123 in how she just operates, and, you know. 464 00:23:36,248 --> 00:23:39,251 She's got her life, and I'm trying to understand 465 00:23:39,335 --> 00:23:41,003 a lot of the decisions she's making, 466 00:23:41,086 --> 00:23:44,340 but it just doesn't click for me. 467 00:23:44,423 --> 00:23:46,091 I think when a parent loses a child, 468 00:23:46,216 --> 00:23:48,719 there's never gonna be a time that... 469 00:23:49,929 --> 00:23:51,263 -You're refilled again. -...you know -- yeah, like, you're good. 470 00:23:51,388 --> 00:23:52,848 -There's always gonna be that void. -[Kim] Yeah. 471 00:23:52,932 --> 00:23:55,351 -Yeah. -Like, I will always be a parent that lost a child. 472 00:23:55,434 --> 00:24:00,314 There's -- and there's no amount of thinking, talking, writing, 473 00:24:01,398 --> 00:24:03,651 what -- praying, anything that could change that. -Absolutely. 474 00:24:03,776 --> 00:24:05,527 -Like, that's, you know. -Yeah. 475 00:24:05,611 --> 00:24:07,404 [Kim] I know where Zac is coming from, 476 00:24:07,488 --> 00:24:08,989 and he means well. 477 00:24:09,114 --> 00:24:11,700 I guess I need to find out what it is that he needs from me 478 00:24:11,784 --> 00:24:14,620 in order to feel accepted, 479 00:24:14,703 --> 00:24:18,374 loved, and accepted, and I -- I wanna fix that. 480 00:24:19,833 --> 00:24:23,045 It's kind of like I lost so much of my life to that. 481 00:24:23,128 --> 00:24:25,214 -[Zac] Mm. -You know, like most of the first year. 482 00:24:25,297 --> 00:24:26,298 Right. 483 00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:31,095 -I'm... -You don't wanna be in that place again. 484 00:24:31,178 --> 00:24:33,472 -[Kim] Yeah, yeah. -And so, yeah. 485 00:24:33,555 --> 00:24:35,557 But I'll also be wherever 486 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,227 they need me to be for them. -[Zac] Yeah. 487 00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:41,271 You know, if they need me to go back there for a while, 488 00:24:41,355 --> 00:24:43,732 I'll, you know, I'll do that, so. -Sure -- that's good. 489 00:24:43,816 --> 00:24:44,817 -Yeah. -Yeah. 490 00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:46,694 Lydia, over the last few years, 491 00:24:46,819 --> 00:24:48,320 just worked really hard to 492 00:24:49,822 --> 00:24:52,783 really just be seen in the family. 493 00:24:52,866 --> 00:24:55,995 And I don't feel like Kim really 494 00:24:57,413 --> 00:25:00,332 tried to see her or 495 00:25:00,457 --> 00:25:01,458 tried to even... 496 00:25:04,503 --> 00:25:06,463 Mm, see, I don't wanna talk about this, 497 00:25:06,547 --> 00:25:07,548 'cause I don't... 498 00:25:09,466 --> 00:25:12,761 I can defend my wife, but in all honesty, 499 00:25:12,845 --> 00:25:14,388 I don't know what they've been through. 500 00:25:15,764 --> 00:25:16,765 Period. 501 00:25:26,984 --> 00:25:29,528 [producer and Ken speaking] 502 00:25:37,578 --> 00:25:39,371 [background chatter] 503 00:25:39,496 --> 00:25:40,914 [clears throat] 504 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,667 -Is this a bad conversation? -[Kim] No. 505 00:25:43,751 --> 00:25:45,544 So, um... 506 00:25:46,837 --> 00:25:50,049 Stop licking. Stop licking. 507 00:25:50,174 --> 00:25:53,135 [Kim] We all lived through Joshua. 508 00:25:53,218 --> 00:25:54,636 Amber lived through it in the womb, 509 00:25:55,763 --> 00:25:57,681 and you two never got to meet him, 510 00:25:57,765 --> 00:26:00,392 but obviously you've heard about him. 511 00:26:00,476 --> 00:26:03,937 I'm here, and I'm ready for whatever the children 512 00:26:04,063 --> 00:26:04,938 wanna talk about. 513 00:26:05,064 --> 00:26:06,899 If they want a play-by-play, 514 00:26:06,982 --> 00:26:10,944 if they wanna talk about grieving or not grieving, 515 00:26:11,070 --> 00:26:12,946 if Lydia wants to take it 516 00:26:13,072 --> 00:26:15,657 into what she experienced that day 517 00:26:15,741 --> 00:26:17,785 and what we all experienced that day, 518 00:26:17,910 --> 00:26:20,788 um, kind of mourning that all over again, 519 00:26:20,913 --> 00:26:22,873 I'm willing to do that. 520 00:26:22,956 --> 00:26:24,374 I wanna be here for my kids. 521 00:26:24,458 --> 00:26:27,753 I wanna be here for whatever they need. 522 00:26:27,878 --> 00:26:30,923 I'm going into this knowing that it has potential to be 523 00:26:31,006 --> 00:26:32,549 a very painful conversation, 524 00:26:33,675 --> 00:26:36,428 and I'm ready for whatever that is. 525 00:26:37,429 --> 00:26:42,101 I just kind of wanted to have time for everybody to talk 526 00:26:42,226 --> 00:26:44,394 and share, like, how you're doing with it, 527 00:26:44,478 --> 00:26:47,064 like, if you're healing or not healing or... 528 00:26:49,942 --> 00:26:51,527 [Lydia] I just wanna acknowledge him more. 529 00:26:51,610 --> 00:26:54,947 -[Kim] Yeah. -[Lydia] Like, we always say, 530 00:26:55,030 --> 00:26:57,324 "There's nine children, three brothers." 531 00:26:57,449 --> 00:27:00,828 Like, but there's ten, and there's four brothers, 532 00:27:00,953 --> 00:27:03,664 and, you know, just finding little ways like that 533 00:27:03,789 --> 00:27:04,790 to honor him. 534 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,419 -Yeah. -Mm-hmm. 535 00:27:09,503 --> 00:27:13,465 Well, you know, it's a good thing to talk about 536 00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:18,053 the grieving process and stuff, but you can get stuck there too 537 00:27:18,137 --> 00:27:19,763 if you focus on it too much. 538 00:27:19,847 --> 00:27:24,768 But I have been working to remember him, not the tragedy. 539 00:27:24,852 --> 00:27:26,937 And I don't want him to just be remembered from... 540 00:27:28,939 --> 00:27:32,317 the day that he passed instead of the life that he lived. 541 00:27:32,401 --> 00:27:33,402 Yeah. 542 00:27:36,655 --> 00:27:38,031 This is all I needed, 543 00:27:39,825 --> 00:27:40,826 just to -- 544 00:27:42,327 --> 00:27:43,912 to bring him up in conversation. 545 00:27:43,996 --> 00:27:46,248 Like the fact that we are gathering for the purpose 546 00:27:46,331 --> 00:27:49,334 of Joshua is it right there. 547 00:27:50,419 --> 00:27:53,172 Well, I have something for the three 548 00:27:53,297 --> 00:27:55,966 that never got to meet Joshua. 549 00:27:56,049 --> 00:27:58,051 [gentle music plays] 550 00:27:59,845 --> 00:28:01,513 -[laughing] -Aw. 551 00:28:01,638 --> 00:28:04,391 He loved duckies, but he didn't call them duckies. 552 00:28:04,516 --> 00:28:05,851 He called them "guckies." 553 00:28:05,976 --> 00:28:09,813 -I want this one. -[Cassia speaks indistinctly] 554 00:28:09,897 --> 00:28:11,815 -Isaac! -No, I'm giving it to Amber. 555 00:28:11,899 --> 00:28:13,650 [indistinct]. -[laughing] 556 00:28:13,734 --> 00:28:16,445 -[indistinct]. -[Barry] We would also go out to the gravesite, 557 00:28:16,528 --> 00:28:18,322 right, and put ducks. -[Kim] Yeah. 558 00:28:18,405 --> 00:28:21,575 Remember his -- his doggy book? 559 00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:23,202 What did he call them? -"Goggies." 560 00:28:23,327 --> 00:28:25,412 -[Lydia and Barry] "Goggies." -"Guckies" and "goggies." 561 00:28:25,537 --> 00:28:27,080 He loved his dog book. 562 00:28:27,206 --> 00:28:29,374 He loved his red rain boots. 563 00:28:29,499 --> 00:28:32,211 There's like twice that I can remember... 564 00:28:34,296 --> 00:28:35,297 [Kim] Yeah. 565 00:28:38,091 --> 00:28:41,762 Yeah, you used to love leading him all around the farm by, 566 00:28:41,887 --> 00:28:42,971 you know, by his hand. 567 00:28:43,055 --> 00:28:44,640 [Lydia] Mm-hmm. 568 00:28:44,723 --> 00:28:47,643 -You remember that little red car with the blue wheels? -Mm-hmm. 569 00:28:47,726 --> 00:28:49,603 [Ethan] I remember I used to push him around in that all the time. 570 00:28:49,728 --> 00:28:51,396 -Yeah. -I'd buckle him in, and he would just like, 571 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,649 I'd tell him to drive, but like a lot of times 572 00:28:53,732 --> 00:28:56,193 it could just like, just like... 573 00:28:56,276 --> 00:28:57,486 [chuckles] Just... 574 00:29:00,072 --> 00:29:02,407 -How are you doing? -I'm doing great. 575 00:29:04,076 --> 00:29:07,704 I mean, you know, the context is Joshua. 576 00:29:07,788 --> 00:29:08,914 Yeah, Joshua's... 577 00:29:08,997 --> 00:29:10,123 [laughing] 578 00:29:10,249 --> 00:29:11,792 'Cause, I went to the gym Saturday. 579 00:29:11,917 --> 00:29:15,504 No, everything that I went through with Joshua early on, 580 00:29:15,587 --> 00:29:18,507 I had to stop asking why, right? 581 00:29:18,590 --> 00:29:20,759 -Because it just was counterproductive... -[Kim] Yeah. 582 00:29:20,884 --> 00:29:23,470 to the whole situation. 583 00:29:23,595 --> 00:29:26,390 Just playing my role as best I could to support 584 00:29:26,473 --> 00:29:27,474 what needed to be done. 585 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,855 I always like to think back on Joshua, right? 586 00:29:33,939 --> 00:29:36,066 And remember the good that... 587 00:29:37,109 --> 00:29:39,152 the good 17 months we had, 588 00:29:39,278 --> 00:29:41,738 I mean, 'cause it was a real special thing. 589 00:29:41,822 --> 00:29:45,367 There'll probably always be a scar from a trauma like this. 590 00:29:45,450 --> 00:29:47,119 There's a little mark there 591 00:29:47,244 --> 00:29:49,496 that proves that, yeah, it was a big loss. 592 00:29:51,915 --> 00:29:54,835 Well, you asked us, but how -- how are you doing? 593 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,003 -[Kim] I'm doing good. -Yeah? 594 00:29:56,128 --> 00:30:00,048 Yeah, like most of the first year, it was, 595 00:30:00,132 --> 00:30:02,801 I mean, you guys know I could barely function. 596 00:30:02,884 --> 00:30:06,888 Up until recently, I -- I really didn't think I was ready 597 00:30:06,972 --> 00:30:10,517 to talk about it, but I went and saw Dr. Ty. 598 00:30:10,642 --> 00:30:13,312 In talking to her, I realized how important it was 599 00:30:13,395 --> 00:30:17,190 for you guys that I talk about him, you know? 600 00:30:19,234 --> 00:30:22,070 I, yeah... 601 00:30:22,154 --> 00:30:23,989 I cry sometimes just thinking about everything 602 00:30:24,114 --> 00:30:25,866 you've been through and how strong you are 603 00:30:25,991 --> 00:30:28,327 and still being able to raise all of us 604 00:30:29,578 --> 00:30:33,081 and just pushing through it. So, thank you. 605 00:30:35,167 --> 00:30:36,168 Yeah. 606 00:30:42,424 --> 00:30:44,509 I don't really plan on talking to Zac. 607 00:30:44,593 --> 00:30:47,012 I don't really care what Zac thinks at the end of the day. 608 00:30:47,137 --> 00:30:49,598 [Zac] I had heard about what Teegan had done to Ethan. 609 00:30:51,016 --> 00:30:53,810 We brought up these things that we thought were serious. 610 00:30:53,894 --> 00:30:56,063 I don't think I can own that I was wrong. 611 00:31:03,653 --> 00:31:05,655 [gentle music plays] 612 00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:11,078 [Moriah] You're really strong, just from everything 613 00:31:11,161 --> 00:31:12,788 you've been through and then going through that 614 00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:15,540 and still being there for us in the ways that you could. 615 00:31:15,624 --> 00:31:16,833 Yeah. 616 00:31:16,958 --> 00:31:19,127 Lydia kind of brought this on, you know, 617 00:31:19,211 --> 00:31:21,588 by talking about it publicly, 618 00:31:21,671 --> 00:31:24,091 and that wasn't the right way to go about it, 619 00:31:24,174 --> 00:31:27,636 but the end result has been beautiful. 620 00:31:27,761 --> 00:31:29,054 It's a happy moment. 621 00:31:29,137 --> 00:31:32,307 That's what I always wanted for Joshua, you know? 622 00:31:32,391 --> 00:31:34,726 And it makes me happy that, um, 623 00:31:34,810 --> 00:31:37,145 that we're all able to share that together. 624 00:31:37,270 --> 00:31:39,648 You know, losing somebody, the one thing that it does, 625 00:31:39,731 --> 00:31:41,608 the one good thing that does come out of it, 626 00:31:41,691 --> 00:31:44,528 is it makes you appreciate the people in your life 627 00:31:44,653 --> 00:31:45,862 that are still here. 628 00:31:45,987 --> 00:31:48,990 And I want Lydia to know that she's loved and appreciated. 629 00:31:50,075 --> 00:31:51,076 We have pretty great parents. 630 00:31:53,995 --> 00:31:55,414 Affirmative. 631 00:31:55,497 --> 00:31:57,749 [chuckling] 632 00:31:57,833 --> 00:31:59,209 I feel like this definitely, you know, 633 00:31:59,334 --> 00:32:00,752 just opens the door to 634 00:32:02,003 --> 00:32:04,089 to just discuss Joshua more and bring him up 635 00:32:04,172 --> 00:32:07,551 in -- in conversation and, yeah, honor him in that way. 636 00:32:07,676 --> 00:32:10,387 And I'm just really, really proud of my mom 637 00:32:10,512 --> 00:32:11,888 for -- for doing this. 638 00:32:12,013 --> 00:32:13,932 It has been a little bit of a rough road getting here, 639 00:32:14,015 --> 00:32:17,727 but we're here, and we're talking about Joshua. 640 00:32:20,147 --> 00:32:24,651 So, we're gonna put Joshua's name on the bench. 641 00:32:24,734 --> 00:32:27,696 I think everybody's doing good after the meeting, you know? 642 00:32:27,821 --> 00:32:30,365 Everybody seems to, you know, be getting along, 643 00:32:30,490 --> 00:32:31,867 and that's what I was hoping for. 644 00:32:31,992 --> 00:32:32,993 Let me grab it from the bottom. 645 00:32:34,953 --> 00:32:36,788 It's fine. 646 00:32:36,872 --> 00:32:38,540 I know if Joshua can see us right now, 647 00:32:38,623 --> 00:32:40,000 he's definitely proud. 648 00:32:40,083 --> 00:32:42,335 I know it would put a smile on his face. 649 00:32:42,419 --> 00:32:44,171 We're gonna put the bench out for him, 650 00:32:44,254 --> 00:32:45,964 just a little remembrance thing. 651 00:32:50,010 --> 00:32:51,595 [Kim] That's looking good. 652 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,054 Yeah, that is looking good. 653 00:32:54,055 --> 00:32:56,391 [Kim] Maybe when Micah comes, he thickens the letters 654 00:32:56,475 --> 00:32:57,893 and writes his name. 655 00:32:57,976 --> 00:32:59,352 The unfortunate thing is Micah's not here. 656 00:32:59,436 --> 00:33:01,688 He wasn't able to make it up for today's event. 657 00:33:01,771 --> 00:33:02,856 He had to work. 658 00:33:02,939 --> 00:33:04,733 The good thing is he'll be back up at some point 659 00:33:04,816 --> 00:33:06,401 and carve his name on the bench. 660 00:33:09,529 --> 00:33:10,530 [Mercy] That looks good. 661 00:33:14,242 --> 00:33:17,746 My mom's all about little places to sit down outside 662 00:33:17,829 --> 00:33:20,749 And just, you know, go over and it reminds you of them 663 00:33:20,874 --> 00:33:23,585 instead of, like, you should go to his grave. 664 00:33:23,668 --> 00:33:25,337 It's a little bit brighter, I think. 665 00:33:25,420 --> 00:33:26,713 [Lydia] It's great. Look at that. 666 00:33:26,796 --> 00:33:28,590 -[Kim and Isaac] Yeah. -Alright, Dad, you can do the rest. 667 00:33:28,715 --> 00:33:29,925 -Middle one? -You get the middle one? 668 00:33:30,008 --> 00:33:31,092 Yep, it's just right in the middle. 669 00:33:31,176 --> 00:33:32,802 [Kim] Who's doing the U? Cassia do you wanna do the U? 670 00:33:32,928 --> 00:33:33,929 [Barry] Oh, yeah. 671 00:33:38,558 --> 00:33:40,769 Three or four days ago, if you had told me that I would 672 00:33:40,852 --> 00:33:43,522 be standing here ready to have a hard conversation about 673 00:33:43,605 --> 00:33:46,107 Joshua, I wouldn't have believed you. 674 00:33:46,233 --> 00:33:50,195 In talking to Dr. Ty, I really understood that I need 675 00:33:50,278 --> 00:33:52,447 to do this not for me, but for my kids. 676 00:33:52,572 --> 00:33:54,574 ♪ I'm ready now ♪ 677 00:33:56,284 --> 00:33:58,203 ♪ I don't know, babe ♪ 678 00:33:58,286 --> 00:34:00,121 ♪ It's just a new day ♪ 679 00:34:00,205 --> 00:34:02,791 ♪ But I keep holding on ♪ 680 00:34:02,916 --> 00:34:06,127 [Kim] It's hard to talk about the hard stuff, but I want us 681 00:34:06,211 --> 00:34:08,463 to all love each other and get along. 682 00:34:08,588 --> 00:34:09,797 We might not like each other, 683 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,007 we might irritate each other, but ultimately, 684 00:34:12,132 --> 00:34:13,760 we're in this for the long haul. 685 00:34:13,842 --> 00:34:15,219 We'll keep working on it. 686 00:34:15,303 --> 00:34:17,973 ♪ We're almost home ♪ 687 00:34:18,974 --> 00:34:19,975 [Amber speaking] 688 00:34:25,397 --> 00:34:26,565 [Lydia speaking] 689 00:34:26,648 --> 00:34:27,732 [Kim] Yeah. 690 00:34:27,815 --> 00:34:29,818 [Moriah speaking] 691 00:34:29,943 --> 00:34:31,402 [Kim] Mm-hmm. 692 00:34:31,485 --> 00:34:33,822 [Moriah speaking] 693 00:34:33,905 --> 00:34:36,199 ♪ Living that good life ♪ 694 00:34:36,324 --> 00:34:38,702 ♪ Headed out on our own ♪ 695 00:34:38,827 --> 00:34:40,786 ♪ Remember the good times ♪ 696 00:34:40,870 --> 00:34:43,498 ♪ We're almost home ♪ 697 00:34:46,751 --> 00:34:49,337 [Teegan and Ken speaking] 698 00:34:55,385 --> 00:35:01,016 So I'm sandwiched in between Ken and Zac. 699 00:35:01,099 --> 00:35:03,310 And we're just sort of hanging out all together 700 00:35:03,393 --> 00:35:07,022 while the family, you know, is outside honoring Joshua. 701 00:35:07,147 --> 00:35:09,357 I don't really plan on talking to Zac. 702 00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:14,696 Teegan and I have had a couple interactions before, 703 00:35:14,821 --> 00:35:16,364 and they've all been great. 704 00:35:16,448 --> 00:35:18,116 It does just, kind of, feel like 705 00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:20,702 she doesn't entirely wanna be here. 706 00:35:20,785 --> 00:35:22,454 [Teegan] You know, it's right before 707 00:35:22,537 --> 00:35:25,290 their surprise celebration party, 708 00:35:25,373 --> 00:35:28,251 so I'm not trying to dampen Zac's mood by any means. 709 00:35:28,376 --> 00:35:31,713 You know, I'm here to celebrate him and Lydia. 710 00:35:31,838 --> 00:35:34,215 I don't really care what Zac thinks at the end of the day. 711 00:35:37,052 --> 00:35:38,219 From what I heard, 712 00:35:39,220 --> 00:35:41,389 it seemed Teegan was terrible, and so I was trying 713 00:35:41,514 --> 00:35:43,433 to understand why he doesn't think so. 714 00:35:43,558 --> 00:35:46,895 We brought up these things that we thought were serious. 715 00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:49,230 I don't think I can own that I was wrong. 716 00:35:50,398 --> 00:35:53,318 But, of course, we were the ones to bring it up 717 00:35:54,319 --> 00:35:56,738 because no one else would. 718 00:36:03,286 --> 00:36:05,372 [thunder rumbling] 719 00:36:05,497 --> 00:36:07,290 [happy, light music plays] 720 00:36:07,374 --> 00:36:09,834 OK, we're doing a surprise anniversary party 721 00:36:09,918 --> 00:36:10,919 for Lydia and Zac. 722 00:36:11,002 --> 00:36:13,213 I had a nice party planned for out there, 723 00:36:13,338 --> 00:36:15,924 um, but it's pouring down rain. 724 00:36:16,007 --> 00:36:18,176 So I'm having to regroup, get everything -- 725 00:36:18,259 --> 00:36:20,845 I know where I want stuff. I need lots of hands to do stuff. 726 00:36:20,929 --> 00:36:24,724 Given all the heavy stuff that we've covered today, 727 00:36:24,849 --> 00:36:28,478 and it's been a lot, I just want something light 728 00:36:28,561 --> 00:36:31,147 and fun to celebrate Zac and Lydia. 729 00:36:31,231 --> 00:36:33,525 -I need you two to take Lydia and Zac upstairs... -[Mercy] Right. 730 00:36:33,650 --> 00:36:35,026 ...to the closet and distract them. 731 00:36:35,151 --> 00:36:36,236 We'll tell you when to bring them down. 732 00:36:38,655 --> 00:36:39,531 OK, go, go, go. 733 00:36:39,656 --> 00:36:41,408 This is a way that I show love 734 00:36:41,533 --> 00:36:44,452 by putting on an event for somebody. 735 00:36:44,536 --> 00:36:46,413 -[Lydia speaking] -[Barry] Right. 736 00:36:46,538 --> 00:36:47,956 -Lydia and Zac. -[Lydia] Yeah? 737 00:36:48,039 --> 00:36:49,457 -I wanna practice. -[Barry] You're not -- 738 00:36:49,541 --> 00:36:52,252 Are we going to practice our little music? 739 00:36:52,377 --> 00:36:55,547 [Barry speaking] 740 00:36:57,048 --> 00:36:58,883 -Yeah. -[Lydia] Hubby, we need your voice 741 00:36:59,008 --> 00:37:01,678 to somehow make something sound OK. 742 00:37:01,761 --> 00:37:04,305 Mercy and I are attempting to distract Lydia and Zac 743 00:37:04,389 --> 00:37:06,391 so they can quick set up the downstairs area 744 00:37:06,516 --> 00:37:07,976 'cause it would be kind of obvious 745 00:37:08,059 --> 00:37:09,894 if they're sitting on the couch so. 746 00:37:09,978 --> 00:37:11,855 [violin and keyboard playing] 747 00:37:15,066 --> 00:37:16,776 -[Kim] Do you wanna help? -What are we doing? 748 00:37:16,901 --> 00:37:19,404 -We're decorating for an anniversary party for them. -OK. 749 00:37:21,865 --> 00:37:25,493 It's amazing that no matter what the adversity 750 00:37:25,577 --> 00:37:28,580 or trials are, you know, when the siblings get together, 751 00:37:28,663 --> 00:37:32,250 they just have that chemistry, and now Zac's a part of it, 752 00:37:32,375 --> 00:37:34,836 and so, you know, when all is said and done, those things 753 00:37:34,919 --> 00:37:38,256 that were issues kind of get put aside, 754 00:37:38,381 --> 00:37:40,884 and it's good to see them able to come together 755 00:37:40,967 --> 00:37:42,051 and just have fun. 756 00:37:43,678 --> 00:37:44,888 Hey, what you think, man? 757 00:37:48,892 --> 00:37:49,934 [Kim] Ten minutes. 758 00:37:50,059 --> 00:37:51,269 That on that table. 759 00:37:59,277 --> 00:38:01,738 Ethan and Teegan, come here -- and Barry. 760 00:38:01,821 --> 00:38:02,947 Everybody come here. 761 00:38:07,619 --> 00:38:08,787 [Moriah laughing] Oh, goodness. 762 00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:11,581 [Kim] How about we tell them to come down, 763 00:38:11,664 --> 00:38:14,417 and when they come down, we sing Happy Anniversary to you? 764 00:38:14,501 --> 00:38:15,418 -[Teegan] Yeah. -Mm-hmm. 765 00:38:15,502 --> 00:38:16,503 [Lydia] That's nice. 766 00:38:17,712 --> 00:38:20,048 -Alright, shall we? -[Lydia] We shall. 767 00:38:21,424 --> 00:38:23,927 [Moriah] Guys, what are you doing? 768 00:38:24,010 --> 00:38:24,969 We're gonna leave. 769 00:38:25,094 --> 00:38:26,054 -We're coming downstairs. -[Moriah] Oh, good. 770 00:38:26,137 --> 00:38:28,640 Come on. 771 00:38:28,723 --> 00:38:31,184 -[Lydia] Let's go down, -[Moriah] Everybody was wondering where you were. 772 00:38:31,309 --> 00:38:32,811 I think they're out in the barn or something. 773 00:38:32,894 --> 00:38:34,020 [Mercy] We might have kept you too long. 774 00:38:34,145 --> 00:38:35,313 [Zac] We were stolen away. 775 00:38:36,731 --> 00:38:40,151 We were enjoying beautiful music. 776 00:38:40,235 --> 00:38:43,822 [all singing] Happy anniversary to you. 777 00:38:43,947 --> 00:38:47,742 Happy anniversary to you. 778 00:38:47,826 --> 00:38:53,081 Happy anniversary, dear Zac and Lydia. 779 00:38:53,164 --> 00:38:57,502 -Happy anniversary to you. -Oh, my gosh. 780 00:38:57,585 --> 00:38:59,796 And many more. 781 00:38:59,879 --> 00:39:03,007 [clapping and cheering] 782 00:39:03,132 --> 00:39:05,134 Mwah! 783 00:39:05,218 --> 00:39:07,011 Just like a year ago. 784 00:39:07,095 --> 00:39:08,513 Oh, my goodness. 785 00:39:08,596 --> 00:39:13,518 I truly was amazed that everyone put in so much effort 786 00:39:13,643 --> 00:39:16,145 to just celebrate us for our anniversary, 787 00:39:16,229 --> 00:39:17,856 and for us to be what they're celebrating, 788 00:39:17,981 --> 00:39:19,774 I think, was really special. 789 00:39:19,858 --> 00:39:21,192 Definitely didn't expect it. 790 00:39:21,317 --> 00:39:22,610 It's a really sweet gesture. 791 00:39:22,694 --> 00:39:24,571 You guys did this in like ten minutes? 792 00:39:24,696 --> 00:39:27,532 [Kim] Yeah, we're like, "Go upstairs!" 793 00:39:27,657 --> 00:39:31,327 I just hope next time, if conflict does arise, that 794 00:39:32,328 --> 00:39:35,123 I'm not misunderstood, I guess. 795 00:39:38,626 --> 00:39:41,671 At this point, I can't think about if. 796 00:39:41,754 --> 00:39:42,755 Let me answer, please. 797 00:39:44,257 --> 00:39:47,385 Yeah, I mean, if we're continued 798 00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:51,055 to be misunderstood, then we just won't keep trying. 799 00:39:53,057 --> 00:39:56,227 Well, I propose a toast to Lydia and Zac and to, uh, 800 00:39:56,311 --> 00:39:58,813 one successful year of marriage and many more. 801 00:39:58,897 --> 00:40:00,899 -Yes. -[all] Cheers! 802 00:40:02,066 --> 00:40:04,068 -Cheers, cheers, cheers. -Cheers. 803 00:40:04,152 --> 00:40:06,404 [Barry] The conflicts that were happening earlier in the day 804 00:40:06,487 --> 00:40:07,739 kind of pale in comparison 805 00:40:07,864 --> 00:40:09,866 just to the good feeling that happens in the moment 806 00:40:09,949 --> 00:40:11,117 when you're celebrating. 807 00:40:11,242 --> 00:40:13,953 It's hard to say if it would have been any different 808 00:40:14,078 --> 00:40:15,830 had the conflict not happened. 809 00:40:15,914 --> 00:40:17,832 We're learning to communicate some more, yeah. 810 00:40:17,916 --> 00:40:20,209 We're getting opportunities to practice it, right? 811 00:40:20,293 --> 00:40:22,503 And we're moving forward. 812 00:40:22,587 --> 00:40:26,841 And so for me, the search for Sandra Bullock continues. 813 00:40:26,925 --> 00:40:30,094 ♪ All that I know ♪ 814 00:40:30,178 --> 00:40:33,181 ♪ Wherever that I go ♪ 815 00:40:33,264 --> 00:40:35,308 [Lydia] We've all definitely come a long way 816 00:40:35,433 --> 00:40:38,019 since what happened last year at this time. 817 00:40:38,102 --> 00:40:39,270 You know, there have been rough patches, 818 00:40:39,354 --> 00:40:42,273 but it's ultimately been good. 819 00:40:42,357 --> 00:40:45,401 And we'll, you know, continue growing 820 00:40:45,485 --> 00:40:46,527 and continue just 821 00:40:47,904 --> 00:40:49,948 leaving it open-ended without any expectations. 822 00:40:50,073 --> 00:40:52,158 I think that's the biggest thing we've learned. 823 00:40:52,283 --> 00:40:55,161 'Cause you'll just wind up hurt and confused. 824 00:40:57,330 --> 00:40:59,624 Honestly, I'm tired of working on relationships. 825 00:40:59,707 --> 00:41:02,543 I just kind of wanna be for a little bit 826 00:41:02,627 --> 00:41:04,629 and see who floats in and out of my life. 827 00:41:08,257 --> 00:41:09,550 See who comes over... 828 00:41:09,634 --> 00:41:11,135 [indistinct chatter] 829 00:41:11,260 --> 00:41:12,637 ...with no expectations. 830 00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:17,976 It can be hard being a parent to so many different people, 831 00:41:18,059 --> 00:41:21,521 and I'm still learning. I haven't figured it out. 832 00:41:21,646 --> 00:41:25,858 If anybody gets it figured out, let me know. 833 00:41:25,984 --> 00:41:27,735 ♪ I'm coming home ♪