ANDY: Part two of
"The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" Reunion.
Who here has received mean texts from Mary?
- Everyone except Jennie. - Yeah, I didn't get the texts.
She probably blocked your number.
She just said it to you in person.
Cameron was on a path for spiritual healing.
You believe they were having an affair?
Yeah.
He mortgaged his house to give her money.
Lisa, you flat-out told me off-camera
that he did not donate $300,000, and Mary told me the same thing.
You were so hurt about Meredith's relationship
with Mary that you called her
a ----ing piece of sh-- Garbage whore...
No, no, no, no, no.
that she ----ed half of New York.
- I did not. I did not! - [crying] You hurt me,
and you let me down. [sniffles]
There was some kind of a rumor that Meredith and Jen
were seeing the same... guy.
♪♪♪
Part two of "The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" Reunion
starts now.
So Jack and Henry did
the guest list for your event, right?
- Yes, they did. - I wanna know why they
would invite Whitney but not invite Jen?
They didn't invite Whitney. I did.
Why not invite Jen?
At the photo shoot, Jen and I got really hot.
- Yeah. - And when we left,
Jen called me, and we got into it all over again,
and Henry heard it, and he was crying...
[voice breaking] because I was very upset.
I love Jen Shah,
as controversial as that is, I do, and I was very upset.
You don't have to add "As controversial as that is
to love Jen Shah."
It is controversial. Get out of it.
Oh, it is? It's controversial for me to love you, too.
- Okay, I know that's-- - Leave that sh-- out.
Either love me or don't love me, but I'm tired
of all the disclaimers when it comes to Jen Shah.
It's bullsh--.
Jen, I've been a great friend to you, and I... okay.
I mean, Heather doesn't say, "I love you, Jen, however..."
- The fine print. - This is really--
I'll get a lot of heat. They're actually canceling me.
Like, how do you think that makes me feel?
I didn't mean it that way, and I'm very sorry
if that's how it landed. I'm very sorry.
Why did you lie to her about your kids doing the guest list
for the event? - I didn't lie to her.
Jack put together the guest list.
It was his event.
I added Whitney on, and, like,
and I had mixed feelings about it.
John thought it was a great idea.
John was like, "Just keep trying."
Andy, I have one more question. It's important.
- Okay. - Lisa, at Mary's luncheon,
when we sat down to discuss this and Jen was very upset,
and I said, "Not everyone gets invited to everything,"
did I have your back and support you at that lunch?
- Yes, she did. - Thank you.
She is slowly making her case over there, Meredith Marks.
I am a lawyer.
Jennie, um, there were a lot of times where you fell silent
when Whitney and Heather accused Lisa
of being a master manipulator. Why didn't you stand up for her?
Well, I don't know their relationship
from the first... year, what's going on,
but what I've heard was-- - You knew her and Meredith.
- Huh? - Right, you knew--
You knew everything about me. - No, I don't know.
Enough to make a character assassination
after meeting me at a party.
From watching the show. I did not ever talk to her--
But she didn't ask me about you.
- I didn't accuse that. - I did not.
I am explaining what Andy's asking me.
The question is why didn't you defend her? She's your friend.
- That was the question. - I do defend her.
- The question is when they were
accusing her of stirring the pot and everything...
I-I did not say she stirred the pot.
- No, they-- - They stirred the pot.
They--When they accused her of being a master manipulator,
why didn't you stand up for her?
She says she's direct, but Lisa likes to make sure
the water is always stirred up and muddy,
but she does not wanna get her hands dirty.
Lisa has all the information,
but she's unwilling to share it with me.
- I do stand up for her. - You do. Okay, fine.
- I do stand up for her. - All right, fine.
- Yeah. - Jennifer from Santa Barbara
says, Lisa, you gave her whiplash
going downstairs and telling Mary
what everyone was saying about her.
Right.
But then conveniently pitting it on Whitney.
Why didn't you own your part in it?
Oh, I didn't. I went downstairs and the first thing--
- No, you harped on what I said. - Excuse me.
You only saw part of it. So when I first went to her room,
she was in the doorway talking about her,
and the very first thing I asked her is,
"I've seen the text messages and a lot of stuff online
about you and Robert. Can we talk about that?"
And she goes, "Why? We're good."
And then that's where the conversation started.
I asked her a lot of questions.
I asked her if she smoked pot, 'cause in your church,
you're not supposed to drink or do any kind of drug.
I asked her, like, lots of questions.
- Do you smoke weed? - [laughter]
Seems like you have a lot
of important conversations off-camera.
- Two. Two. - Two.
Two. One with Mary and one with Meredith.
So I wanna talk about your dad's memorial
and all of the speculation around that.
When you spoke to Meredith on that Tuesday...
- Mm-hmm. - you said, "I'm sorry
to interrupt you. I know you're in the middle of it,"
and you said, "Thank you" or something like that.
- You didn't disagree with her. - She didn't say--
She said, "I know you're with your family."
I feel awful calling you.
Jen's husband, um, is in the hospital.
Meredith, I hate interrupting you right now.
Go be with your family right now. I love you.
I'll see you in a little bit.
I love you. I love you. All right, bye.
All right, I love you. All right, bye.
Meredith's at her father's memorial.
I hate even bothering her.
Why would I answer the phone at my father's memorial?
- Uh, I-I don't know. - Okay, so what happened is
when I called Meredith to tell her the news about Sharrieff,
she said, "Hold on a second.
I just stepped out of my dad's memorial."
- I did not say that. - And then I put you on speaker.
- I 100% did not say that. - You did. You did. 100% you did.
Because you weren't there. It was the day before.
We finished--We finished the conversation.
- Correct. - And I got off.
I was physically in Vail. My father is buried in Aspen.
Whitney and Jennie both heard me.
- You both heard me say... - Right.
- "Oh, my God, I feel horrible." - Yeah, you did say that.
"I just interrupted her dad's memorial."
Because you told me that, and I'm not lying about that.
- No, I did not. - Okay, so, I mean,
it was a major misunderstanding, obviously,
that led to some horrible, brutal interactions.
Did you speculate on my father's death?!
- I did not speculate. - Don't lie!
You're the ----ing liar!
Yes, I feel like I could have very been easily asked
before all the speculation went on, and--
- If it wasn't-- - And then when I was asked...
- I hate this. - I was attacked repeatedly
over and over after I answered the first time.
I said, "Yes, I was at my father's memorial."
I understand why you were so pissed,
but I'm saying that it seemed as a viewer that
if you had said, "It was Monday. What are you talking about?"
Then it would have been...
Lisa had clearly said to us, "You guys,
we just interrupted her in the middle
of her dad's memorial."
I did, because you said it to me.
And we looked at each other, and we're like, "What?"
Because I was shocked that you would even answer,
and you were whispering. - Zero chance.
I was actually in the bathtub, not at the house in Vail--
In the hotel in Vail... - Okay, wait.
- when you called me. - Okay.
- Okay, wait. - So that is not true.
I was not in the memorial. I was in the bathtub...
- Okay, I am going to be... - for the second time.
- I am going to-- - Okay. All right.
- It's enough. - Okay, enough.
So we are breaking for lunch, apparently.
- Already? - I know. So when we come back,
I wanna jump ahead
to the elephant in the room-- Mary.
So, ladies, we'll walk-- We'll walk back to our trailers.
- Where are we going? - But do you know I love you?
- I don't know what to know. - Oh, well, no, I just--
And that's, like, you know, I don't wanna hear the excuses.
- Okay, we're done. - Please, just stop. Thank you.
Yeah, we're done.
Where's my husband?
♪♪♪
Coming up...
Did Cameron really give Mary $300,000?
He mortgaged his house to give her money.
Lisa, you flat-out told me off-camera
that he did not donate $300,000,
and Mary told me the same thing.
♪♪♪
It's like "The Twilight Zone" out there.
I feel like Lisa's literally, like,
"Oh, I had a small outburst where I violated
my friend's character and said horrible, ugly things
that I can't recover from, but we're just gonna move on
and act like that never happened."
Yeah.
Anywho...
I feel bad for Meredith.
Hey. Oh, my God. So your-- Your mascara is not running.
You don't look like you were crying too hard.
- How'd it go? - I actually was.
- I already cried. - [bleep]
We were on the topic of me having to do my apology tour...
- Right. - you know, to everybody
at the beginning of the season, and, um,
Meredith got emotional
and apologized for the way she treated me and said
there was a lot of other things going on in her life.
She talked about her dad a little bit, and...
- Oh. - you know, that...
- I know her dad passed away. - I can identify with.
That's exactly what I was doing,
you know, a year and a half ago, a year ago.
Yeah.
♪♪♪
- Can you hear Lisa? - So, baby gorgeous,
how do you think it's going today?
I think it's going good. I can't wait to get into more.
This afternoon's gonna be rough.
This afternoon is gonna be rough.
All right.
Gloves are making a second appearance.
- Cher is back. - Cher is back.
Let's get into position.
Quiet on the set, please!
♪♪♪
5... 4... 3...
2...
Welcome back to
"The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" Reunion.
I'm Andy Cohen.
Okay, guys, I wanna talk about Mary.
By a show of hands, who here has received
mean texts from Mary?
"I'm thankful I'm older than you.
I also know I look younger than you.
I don't need all the fake injections in my face
to make my face look like whatever,
and I don't need tummy tucks and face-lifts
and eyebrow lifts and breast implants.
Everything is fake. I've never had plastic surgery, never.
I don't need it like you do."
- Everyone except you. - Yeah, I didn't get the texts.
Right, she probably blocked your number.
Probably.
She just said it to you in person. [laughs]
- I'm on the blacklist. - Wow, you, too, Meredith?
What did the text to you say?
Right after Jennie through the glass at her...
Yeah.
Run away, Mary! Run the [bleep] away
because you don't have nothing...
[gasps]
She was upset that I didn't check in on her.
Got it. Kelly from Tennessee said, "Jennie, you seem to be
the only one who's not afraid of Mary.
Why are you not intimidated by Mary like the others are?"
I'm not intimidated by anybody.
I have really high confrontational tolerance,
and if you don't like that,
then that's your problem, not mine.
I don't feel afraid of Mary. I just wanna make that clear.
- That's why I went in her room. - I-I think that might be why
Mary's not here, Jennie. I mean, not in a negative way,
but, like, we--we've learned to navigate and not--
Not ever say no, but that's easy for me because that's kind of--
- I feel like I have. - Well, you have.
Yeah.
But, like, nobody go-- Went in like Jennie.
Alli from California wants to know
why no one stood up for Heather when Mary body-shamed her
and said she drinks too much.
That's horrible, and Heather-- She's doing all of her yelling,
oh, with her little chubby self.
- Were you guys all in the room? - Well, I-I ran after you.
It was so--it was already so chaotic.
It's like, do you really wanna pour gas on that fire?
I didn't get on the private jet for Heather.
Well, I don't think anyone could handle any more.
Yeah, she didn't get on the private plane. That's--
You can't stand up bigger than saying, "I'm not flying private.
I'm gonna pay $1,000 to drive to Denver and..."
- Yeah, right. - "...fly home with you."
Esther from Washington said,
"There was a lot of talk this season about whether
Mary's church is a cult.
Meredith, Whitney, and Jen, you attended Mary's church.
Do you believe it to be a cult?"
Meredith.
I didn't see anything at the church
that would lead me to believe it was a cult.
- Whitney. - When I attended, no.
- I question now. - Jen.
I think every church is a cult to some extent.
- Mm-hmm. - What made you feel
that the church was worshiping Mary,
which is what you said after you saw it?
- Well, when I-- - I mean, they were fanning her.
- I saw that. - Yeah, they were fanning her,
and it was a Mother's Day tribute only to Mary.
You are a master of positivity.
You are a perfect teacher.
[voice breaking] You are a perfect dresser.
- You are the facsimile of God. - Oh! [laughs]
They were, like, losing their minds over Mary.
Like, they're there for her.
Whitney, you believe Mary thinks she's God.
I don't think that she thinks she's God,
'cause if--if we all could claim that we're God,
then what are we doing here, right?
Like, but she uses that-- The fear of God
to get what she wants.
- Andy, I have a question. - That's how religion works.
Why is Mary's church so interesting to everybody here
and we have to talk about it? - 'Cause it's out there.
Because Lisa invited Cameron and made him...
- No. - the topic of conversation.
Robert and Mary want money.
They call church meetings together,
and they'll beat you down until they get what they want.
Is that why you mortgaged your house?
Yes, that is exactly why I mortgaged my house.
Cameron has nothing to do with this conversation.
We can remove him completely out of it.
Why are we acting like we didn't know
that Mary's church was questionable?
Well, it's been an ongoing conversation.
The Mormon Church is questionable.
- No. No, it's va-- - The Mormon Church does not have
equal rights for LGBTQIA... - Okay.
- or women. - Well, we've been talking about
the Mormon Church for two seasons, too.
And they're a cult, possibly, as well. Who knows?
Lisa, there was a lot said about Cameron.
- Yes. - May he rest in peace.
But what was your friendship like
and how would you describe it?
Cameron's amazing.
[voice breaking] Like, I'll get emotional.
I miss him so much, and I am so sad he's not here.
- He died of a brain tumor. - Mm.
He had surgery, and it was successful,
and he's such a good person,
and I'm devastated he's not here.
- How long did you know him? - Over--Little over five years.
Meredith, why do you think Lisa introduced you to Cameron?
Meredith and Mary are extremely close.
Like, they're very good friends.
- Yeah. - Oh.
Um, well, I'd like to ask Lisa a question before I answer that.
Was Cameron on the board of Foster Care Utah?
Cameron was part of Utah Foster Care's board.
He was on their guest-- Guest list.
We split the guest list.
He's not a board d-- He's not a member of the board.
- He's not on the board. - He's a supporter.
- He was in process. - Don't call me a liar again.
He was acting as a board member.
- Okay. - But it wasn't finally.
Like, they had three more weeks.
- He was there on their list. - And he--he was on their list.
He's not a board member. He's not listed.
- He was there because she-- - He--Meredith...
You thought Meredith would take the football and run with it.
- No, I am so--No. That is a lie. - She only believes--
And then you thought, "Meredith isn't totally loyal.
Let's get Whit now." - Stop. Stop.
- She only believes Meredith. - It is put on their in--
- Meredith, was he on the board? - As far as I know, no.
- No, I looked it up. - Okay.
- Okay. I-I-- - So, Whitney, you felt...
You guys are so sick. I can't even believe this.
You guys are sick. You're sick.
So, Whitney, you felt that Lisa invited you to the event
so that you would meet Cameron, and he would give you
information about Mary's church, which you would then...
- Yes. - spread to the group.
Like I said, she's brilliant at igniting the fire,
and I always fall for it.
I have another question, Lisa.
Did Cameron really give Mary $300,000?
- Something. - He mortgaged his house
and gave her 300 grand.
I think I got the numbers wrong, but it was, um,
he had an expensive house when he passed.
I think he--I-- They--They have footage of it.
- I don't wanna say the number. - Why would he even care, though?
He--He did mortgage his house to give her money.
Lisa, you flat-out told me off-camera
that he did not donate $300,000.
You told me it was about 10% of that is what you told me.
And Mary told me the same thing.
♪♪♪
Coming up...
Cameron was very--he was young.
He was ready to come out about Mary.
You believe they were having an affair?
Yeah.
♪♪♪
I have another question, Lisa.
Did Cameron really give Mary $300,000?
I might have had it wrong. I said he mortgaged his house,
and I don't know if it was a $300,000 house, and I--
- Or a $300,000 mortgage. - Yes.
But you didn't correct it with the group.
No.
You let everyone else believe that.
- She let me run with it. - On worldwide television.
@imperialquirk wants to know, "Why is Lisa mad at Whitney
for calling Cameron to get the story,
when Lisa is the one who brought him into the conversation?"
- 'Cause you went on call him. - Great question, yeah.
- Yeah. - And you were upset about that.
Did you think I was gonna trust her after the caterers?
I wanted to go to the horse's mouth.
I didn't think it was appropriate to do that.
I thought it was like, if you want information on Mary,
like, you don't need to get it that way. You can get it online.
But I wanna read this text message from Cameron
that he sent to me. - We don't know that
those are real. You could have crafted those. Like...
They're on my phone.
They're not crafted, and this is disgusting.
Well, then bring out your phone.
- This is disgusting. - No, he's passed on.
Why would you be his voice? I don't know if he, like,
elected you to be represent him. - Because he wrote it.
He said in April, "I wanna text you in case someone
tries to misconstrue the truth.
Whitney Rose reached out to me through Angie.
I don't know her at all. I didn't tell her anything
that happened between me and Mary."
But he did tell Meredith what happened between him and Mary...
- Cameron Williams... - and told Meredith
a lot of horrible things. - But that's his decision.
She didn't make him go tell Meredith.
No, but he texted me about it,
and I reached out to him through text.
I-I decided because of what Meredith told me
at the cooking class...
He kept saying he had been very close with Mary.
They no longer were close.
He said, you know, "Best of luck to you. Be careful."
And the fact that he-- I thought it was suspicious--
- He barely said anything. - Let me talk, please.
- Yeah, hold on. Let her talk. - I thought it was suspicious
that all of sudden, he surfaced at this...
- He said a lot to Meredith. - He did not.
- He did. - Fresh Wolf event.
So I knew that she met him through Angie.
I did not meet him through Angie.
Please talk to my husband about that.
So I called Angie for his phone number.
Call--I'll call Angie right now.
And Angie--Angie--I texted him very kindly and said,
"I don't want to create an issue with you and Lisa."
- Okay. - "But a few of the things
that I have heard are weighing heavy on my heart,
and I'd like to hear it from you.
- Okay. - Because if they are true,
we need to know. - Okay.
I have many texts from him you can see.
He was ready to come out about Mary.
He tells me in this text that he was ready to come out
and say everything about Mary. - Cameron was on a path
for spiritual healing. - Well, then what did he mean
when he texted you, saying, "I didn't tell her anything?"
- Because he clearly did. - So Lisa gave him a--
[laughs] Yeah, that's pretty suspect.
Well, I think that's after the fact.
- What did Cameron tell you? - That--That Mary's congregation
definitely believes that she's God,
and later episodes, we actually see the woman reading to her
that she's a facsimile of God, which is an exact copy,
um, is the definition. He told me that he had
a relationship with her. - Like a sexual relationship.
No, he did not say-- I did not ask--push--
You believe they were having an affair?
- Yeah. - I think they had one.
I don't think it was going on anymore. I think it was over.
- Yeah, it was not--No. - Cameron was engaged to Indya.
And I was-- - It was well over.
- I filmed his engagement. - When he was young.
- He was engaged. - Cameron was very--he was young
when this happened with Mary, and he felt, uh...
he was taken advantage of.
I wish she was here to...
- Yeah. - Mary should be here.
I wish--I wish Cameron was here, and I wish Mary was here.
Mary should be here.
Delia from New Orleans said, "I've heard rumors
that there's a support group for ex-members..."
- There is. - "...of Mary's church."
Does anyone know if this is true?
It's true. It's 100% true.
I've had ex-members of her congregation come up to me
and say that I have it right, that we have it right.
Okay. Let's move on.
I wanna talk about something else--
Something a little lighter for the group.
While most Housewives don't enjoy being upstaged
by a younger, cuter version of themselves,
I think there's an exception if it's their own offspring.
So let's take a look at
"The Real Housekids of Salt Lake City."
Aw.
I think school's more important.
You're straight A's, aren't you? No B's.
Yeah, no B's. That's why we're Asian, not B-sian.
[laughs] Oh, my God.
Can I just touch up your hair?
- Your hair sucks. - Want the scissors?
- [laughs] - At least I have hair.
Words of encouragement. [laughs]
Do you think Bobbie should be a part of this conversation?
You think you can get ugly guys, but you can get cute guys.
You think I'm just saying ugly guys are cute
because that's all I can hope for?
- Yeah! - [laughter]
You know Mommy was on the basketball team?
Yes, ma'am.
- [laughs] - You can't do that, Mama.
Okay.
♪♪♪
We would put the dancer in the hot tub.
They could dance on this second step.
Wait, but how do you know how tall your dancers are?
How big of a difference is it going to be?
Whatever. It's not my party. I don't care.
Oh, by the way, is Karlyn like that off-camera?
- Yes, all the time. - Yes.
- She's exact same. - All the time.
- Same way. - Same way.
Where did Bobbie get her wit?
- From Whit. - There you go.
[laughter]
Um, Meredith, what's the latest with Brooks' fashion line?
Brooks is doing great. He's working hard.
He's finishing up at NYU this spring as well,
so he's, you know, doing a lot--
School and running a company. It's intense.
- How's Chloe? - Chloe's great.
She's spending a little time in L.A. with me,
and, well, I guess Boulder's remote
for the first part of the semester,
so she's probably gonna come back to Utah for a little bit.
Lisa, did your boys give you any outfit advice?
My kids--their biggest rule is, "Mom, don't look single."
- [laughs] - So when I leave the house,
every time I go out with John or something,
they're like, "That's single," and that means,
like, it's showing too much skin, but, like,
Henry's like, "Mom, just don't look single."
Um, Jen, how's Omar doing?
Omar's doing awesome.
Did he let you decorate his locker?
- [laughter] - No. No, in fact, I tried,
and he doesn't have a locker. He did that on purpose.
- Oh, really? - [laughter]
I was like, "What do you mean, you don't have a locker?"
So I called the school, and I'm like,
"Why does my son not have a locker?"
And they're like, "Well, he just--he didn't come get it."
And I think he did it on purpose.
He's, like, sharing with a friend.
Right. Heather, you had a kid
graduating high school this year.
What's it like having your babies become adults?
It feels like... a big, huge payoff as a mom.
We got some response from viewers who felt like
you were kind of living vicariously through Ashley
by encouraging her to have a wild time at school.
You know how to use a condom, right?
Yeah. Had sex ed for that. Bye!
So don't get pregnant. Don't get a disease.
Love you.
Is that at all...
Absolutely.
It's not--I don't really wanna live vicariously,
but I think that when you know better, you do better,
and as a mom, I thought, get it out now,
not when you're 40. Like, be wild now,
and also learn how to balance life and fun,
and which, you know, college is the time to do that, you know?
Are you doing the reverse now in your life?
- Yeah, absolutely. - Yeah. Good.
Absolutely. I have no balance whatsoever. [laughs]
Uh, we need to take a break. We'll be right back.
Coming up...
[crying] I needed a moment to grieve
and a friend to be there for me,
and you hurt me, and you let me down.
♪♪♪
And we are back
with "The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" Reunion.
Well, as the saying goes,
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
But what happens when you can't tell who's who?
♪♪♪
Jen, you told Lisa multiple times
that Meredith wasn't a good friend to her.
Why did you think that?
All I'm seeing from Lisa is,
"This is my best friend for 10 years.
We're like sisters. I love her,"
and then she's just with Mary.
And I'm seeing that's making her upset,
and I can see that there's tension,
but it's not being talked about,
and Lisa's hurt, and I'm not getting this side,
so I'm like, she's not being a good friend to you.
I was never hurt
about Meredith's relationship with Mary. I actually--
- Yes, you were. - No, I was not.
Meredith and I have to work through some stuff.
The double standard with Meredith is
I don't know how she can say, "I love kindness.
I wanna be kind" and defend the person
that's the ----ing meanest in the whole ----ing group.
You were so hurt
about Meredith's relationship with Mary
that you called her a ----ing piece of sh-- garbage whore...
No, no, no, no, that's not why I said it, no.
that she ----ed half of New York
and that her husband doesn't have a job.
- Don't put words in my mouth. - That's a pretty host--That's--
That's not-- Don't put words in my mouth.
- Words for your mouth? - Don't put words in my mouth.
What hurt my feelings is when she said, "I'm offended"
because every time I try and express my feelings,
they're offensive.
- Nobody had my back. - No one ever has your back.
- Keep saying it. - No, nobody had my back.
I've been a very good friend to you, Lisa,
and it's offensive to me
that you continually say that over and over.
First of all, to the best of my understanding,
what triggered that tirade was us sitting at the table.
You and Mary had an argument.
You got upset that I didn't take your side,
and you went into a rage that I--
That how could I be offended by your feelings?
You're entitled to your feelings.
I'm entitled to mine. And--
And what you've been slowly doing is pointing out
situations through tonight that you feel
that you have had her back,
and that's why you were doing that. Is that correct?
- 100%. - Okay,
Lisa, I have a question for you.
On Casino Night, when you ran into this problem with Angie,
did you feel that I had your back and stood up for you?
I do feel like you had my back. I do.
One more question. Lisa, at Mary's luncheon,
when we sat down to discuss this,
and Jen was very upset,
and I said, "Not everyone gets invited to everything,"
did I have your back and support you at that lunch?
- Yes, she did. - Thank you.
Go on.
The argument between you and Mary
started by you calling Mary fake.
Uh, it started--
And she took off on you as well,
and both of you were vicious with each other.
If you think I was gonna get in the middle of that,
you are out of your mind. That's not gonna happen.
The argument started with Mary because I was defending Jennie
because she was attacking Jennie, and that's--
- I was defending Jennie. - We--I, too--
I defended Jennie, too. They don't show everything.
'Cause I didn't say the horrible things about Meredith.
That's how that whole conversation--
Is that all you wanted to say to her?
- I had your back at the table. - No, okay, so go on.
We all had your back at the table.
- Okay, go on. - I find it incomprehensible
that me expressing my feelings of being offended
could be enough.
There's nothing that could be enough to trigger
that kind of tirade against anyone.
I've never spoken that way about anybody,
nonetheless somebody who I profess to be like sisters,
family friends, friends for 10 years, ever.
It seems like a huge... barrier in your friendship with Lisa
was Lisa's friendship with Jen.
Um, well, just... even starting
at the Shabbat dinner that I had and...
[voice breaking] Sorry.
[sniffles] I need another tissue, please.
[crying]
[sniffles]
[exhales deeply]
The memory of my father was... [sniffles] really hard.
Lisa, you really, really hurt me with that.
I called you three days before he passed away,
and I said, "My father is dying,"
and you never called me to check on me.
Two days after he died, I called you and said he died,
and then I invited you to Shabbat dinner,
and all you wanted to do was attack me
to make friends with Jen, which you knew
was a sensitive subject at that moment.
We need to all listen to her.
You can't mistreat other people, which is what she has done...
- I don't-- - for a year.
I feel like she's been mistreated, too.
She has gone on an unwarranted vendetta
against my family.
Jen's feelings and emotions stem from something. Okay, can we--
I have not done anything to Jennifer Shah.
[voice breaking] I needed a moment to grieve
and a friend to be there for me, and you hurt me,
and you let me down.
I absolutely called Meredith back.
No.
And I absolutely talked to you about it. I knew--You even--
Two days after he died. I called you three days before
and said he's dying.
I checked on you. I d-- I always check on you.
Meredith, my dad had passed, and she texted me and said,
"I hope your dad's feeling better."
- No, I did not say that. - After he died?
Yeah, the day after he had passed.
- I didn't know he had passed. - I know, Lisa.
That's why I don't care. I'm just saying, like,
it's just indicative. - Yeah. It was not intentional.
- I was--I didn't-- - Bullsh--.
Well, I mean, she may have known. Everyone else knew.
When your father passed, I did send you a text message
and--and expressed sorrow. - A few days later,
but while he--when he-- - But I mean, we--
I'm just saying I understand.
It wasn't about attacking you, Lisa.
And I was there for her. I was--
I'm saying I understand. That's it.
I was there for you, Meredith. I was 100% there for you.
- It sounds like you weren't. - No, I was. I was.
I mean, it sounds like she doesn't feel like you were.
- That's--I mean, so-- - I'm--I'm so sorry.
I'm a horrible human being, and I regret it forever.
About a month later, Lisa, I sent you a text.
- I was--I checked up on her. - I had said to you verbally
prior to this text that I had things going on.
May I see your message? Can I see it?
Yes, I will show it to you in just a moment...
- Okay, I-- - if you would let me
finish speaking. Thank you.
Wow.
I sent you a text, and I said,
"If you love my family, please stand up for it.
[voice breaking] I am in immense pain, suffering daily.
[sniffles] What you decide is right for you,
I will always respect, but I am asking for a friend.
I have gone through what no one should ever.
I am hurting. I love you. I am in extreme pain
and feel alone." - And this was--
And this was about Br-- - And those were the things
you had to say about me after that.
♪♪♪
After I had called you,
after my father had passed, when I was struggling
to make arrangements for him when I was going
through a lot of stuff with my family,
those were the things you had to say about me after that.
I was there for you with your--
It actually started before that.
I was there for her for her father. In fact, I called her--
I know, but she's-- You're having a...
You're--it's not landing with her, so...
- Okay, it is landing with me. - I hear what you're saying
about your dad. - What?
Listen, Andy, I'm sorry. I hear it.
There's a lot coming at me. I just need a minute.
- Okay. - There's too many people.
Okay, so to address, I feel like I was there.
- Okay. - I know I was there. I know--
- It sounds like it didn't land. - I know I was there for you.
- I know. - Let me jump ahead.
In a season of jaw-dropping moments,
this was at the top.
You say, "Meredith can go [bleep] herself.
I'm done with her 'cause I'm not a ----ing whore."
Oh, I was gonna read it. Thank you.
"And I don't cheat on my husband.
Her and her dumb ----ing family that poses.
Why don't you own a house? Well, you can't,
'cause your husband changes jobs every five minutes.
Meredith is a piece of sh--.
I have your back. I'm offended by that.
[bleep] you. That ----ing piece of sh-- garbage whore.
I ----ing hate her. She's a whore.
She's ----ed half of New York. She can go [bleep] herself."
- So... - That's a lot.
And I wanna say something about it.
The content is absurd.
That's how you feel about me, that's fine. None of it's true.
- It's not. - But that's okay.
I don't really care about that.
The venom and hatred that the delivery came with
is what resonated.
I couldn't even sit and watch it. I'd stop it.
It took me about an hour to get through it.
I was sick.
Utterly sick.
You wouldn't go when Jen, your good friend,
was arrested with federal charges...
- Oh. - and needed a friend
and called you and called you and called you.
You said you didn't return her call
because she yelled at you when your kids were in the car
and heard the horrible things they had to say about you.
How do you think my kids feel about the things
you just said about me... - I'm sure--
and the rest of the world?
I was packing my stuff to get out.
- Who were you speaking to? - I was talking to myself.
I was, like, in a-- In a blind rage rant.
- You said a lot. - I did.
And I don't wanna make this worse,
but it kind of seemed like some sort of a truth dump for you.
- No, it wasn't. - Do you think she's a whore?
No, I do not.
Do you think she ----ed half of New York?
- I'm--I'm glad you asked that. - Okay.
Do I think you ----ed 4.2 million people? No.
I've slept with fewer people than I have fingers, okay?
So there you go. New York City is pretty large.
Since I'm a pot stirrer, if since the shoe fits, wear it.
- Wait. Wait. Can I please stop-- - She told people
before this even filmed... - I did not.
- exactly that. - I did not. I did not.
- I'm sure she did. - I did not. I did not!
Hey, Meredith, you should call Sara Jane Warner.
I have never talked about your marriage.
I have never talked about you before that rant.
You didn't think the cameras were on.
You revealed your true character.
And I'm sorry it was caught on audio.
I called you right after this.
I made a lot of comments that I feel sorry for.
Are my words awful? Yes.
Was I at a breaking point? Absolutely.
Was I in the privacy of my room? 100%. I could not take any more.
Do I regret saying it? Yes. Am I sorry? 1,000%.
Meredith, I can't say it enough how sorry I am. I am.
Big picture, it took a lot
to get there for me emotionally, too.
It didn't just happen that night.
It was a build-up of things that I probably
just felt devastated by because for the last year,
I felt like you were rejecting me because
you keep saying, "You're seeking out a friendship with Jen.
You're seeking this out. You're seeking this out."
Only because you had attacked me about being friends
with Heather and Whitney... - I didn't say that.
- I was trying-- - ad nauseam for hours
and hours and hours on end. - I was trying for you
to understand that why is it okay for you to be friends
with Heather and Whitney but me not to be friends with Jen?
Why is it okay for Heather and Whitney to be friends with Jen
but not me? That was where I was confused.
But you can be friends with everyone,
but I have parameters on who I can be friends with.
And that was rough for me.
I got basically cut off from you
because I didn't fit in the mold for Meredith Marks' friend.
Wait, Lisa. Hold on a second. Because, uh--
Here's part of the problem.
Your delivery for an apology-- It doesn't come across like--
It needs to be a little bit softer and, like--
I'm sorry this is a group setting
where I have to talk to her about it. I'm sorry about this.
I'm sorry I ever even said it. I'm sorry I put it out there.
Are you sorry you said it or are you sorry you got caught?
I'm not sorry I got caught. I'm not sorry I got caught.
- You're sorry you got caught. - No. No.
Because I believe you've said things like that
about every single one of us. - I have not. I have not.
'Cause I know you've said it about Jen.
- Yeah. - I know you've said it about me,
and I know you've said it about Whitney.
And if I were friends with more of Jennie's mutual friends
that were also friends with you, I'd probably hear it about them.
- This is-- - I feel like you think that
we're gonna crucify you for this one moment, but, Lisa...
- Yes, you are, and you have. - what the one moment was,
was like a "Scooby-Doo" episode where we rip the mask off,
and we see who the real villain was.
- Okay. My gosh, I'm--I'm-- - And now we can deal with it.
- Well, just let her talk. - Okay. Yes.
- Lisa, go ahead and you speak. - Just let her talk.
I wanna hear what she has to say. Can we let her...
When it came to your father, when it came to your father,
I was 100% there for you. I talked to you
about the memorial. I was there for you.
I checked in on you all the time, Meredith.
Whitney, what was it like for you to see
the breakdown of this friendship?
- Are you sad for them? - No.
Yes, because if they truly had this deep of a friendship
and 10 years just thrown away in a moment like that,
but I think we all saw it coming this season.
There was a slow build.
So why did you tell me, Heather,
that you don't feel like Meredith's my friend,
she wasn't showing up for me, after horseback riding?
You've been at odds with everybody
in defense of Meredith.
I just felt for you, and I just, I feel like...
I feel for me, too.
You know, I told you guys this on the van.
There has been tension between me and Meredith.
I never considered, not for even a second,
really, the fact that Meredith hadn't been showing up
for you at all.
I was trying to mend this, and Meredith knows that.
No, you weren't trying to mend it.
You were telling me that she's not my friend...
- I said I know--I-I-- - she never has my back.
- She did. She did. - Then why--then it would be
on camera if I said those things.
- Um, well... - It would be,
because that's pretty rich. - Maybe it will show up.
- That's pretty good TV. - Maybe it will show up.
I wanted you guys... [stammers] Big thing for me, Lisa,
is I'd never felt for you. I had never seen your point of view.
I'd never had compassion for how you might have felt abandoned.
And I can say to Meredith right here.
She didn't really show up for you as much as, like,
I'm blindly showing up for this one
who's been horrible to me. I'm just like--
You don't have to keep saying that.
Well, you know what? It's true, and so Jen's been horrible to me
and I show up no matter what,
in a fight, like, whatever, and, like, I suddenly compared
the way I behaved as a friend
to how Meredith behaved as a friend,
and there was a vast difference, and for the first time I saw it,
and I said to you and I felt for you,
and I came out on this reunion stage
wanting to defend you and help you support your point of view
because I thought it was valid, and you are unwilling
to say you're sorry for anything in a way that's meaningful.
You are still defending your behavior.
You are still not acknowledging--
I'm explaining my behavior. That's the difference.
- I'm explaining it. - And that to me is--
I have literally been a great friend to you
for the last 10 years, and I think that one moment,
everyone's gonna crucify me for? - No.
Crucify me for it. I made a mistake.
It seems like what she's saying is--
You want me to cut my wrists in front of you and be like,
"I'm so sorry." - No, no, I want you to say,
"I'm going to be better." - I am--I'm being, like--
Let her talk.
[crying] I am being myself right now.
That's the problem. I'm, like, shutting the [bleep] down
like I did with you because everybody here
wants to break me all the time.
♪♪♪
[crying] I am being myself right now. That's the problem.
I'm, like, shutting the [bleep] down like I did with you,
because everybody here wants to break me all the time.
I'm done with that.
Lisa, you don't have to be this strong--
- I do, though! - No, you don't!
- You don't get that! I do! I do! - It's okay.
- We're your friends. You don't. - I do!
None of us think we're perfect! You do,
and you can't break out of it. - I don't think I'm perfect,
and I'm so sick of people saying that to me.
- I am so sick of it. - Can I offer you
a piece of advice that would help?
Please offer me all the advice.
Just, in these moments, just stop talking.
I know for you, you need to process it and talk through it.
But in a moment when your friend is devastated,
just be quiet.
Well, there's a lot of back and forth.
- Yeah. - I just wanna go
to the bigger issue, which is where the two of you
see things right now and where you go from here.
I'm genuinely sorry. I regret saying those words. I want--
I hope you're hearing me and open to hearing me.
I regret saying it. It was a moment of rage.
We've all--maybe not to my extreme--had them,
and I am very, very sorry, and I hope that we can
work on repairing our friendship.
Meredith?
I saw this less than 48 hours ago.
As you like to say, I am processing.
- Mm-hmm. - I don't know where I stand.
I hate to throw a 10-year friendship
out the window. I'm devastated.
I know. I'm sure you are, and I'm--and I caused that.
-I caused that devastation -I cannot fathom someone
speaking about me that way ever. - I-I caused that devastation,
and I take full responsibility of it.
And I have to start question if you did it intentionally miked.
- No. I was-- - Then why'd you take
your mic off and throw it at the audio guy?
- Well, I realized it was on. - That's so--That's bullsh--.
I call bullsh-- on that one.
I realized that I was in a rage packing my stuff to go home.
Jennie came in the room, and you continued to say
horrible things, and I came in the room,
and you continued to say horrible things.
All right. Before we move on, I wanna ask... one more question.
What did you mean at the finale
when you said that you will expose who everyone slept with?
I'll talk about who everybody dated
that nobody knows about!
- All right, stop. - Seth and I dated other people.
- Yeah, all right. - Wow.
They knew who they are. They know what they've done.
Maybe I--Maybe I know. Maybe I-- Maybe I know this
about this one and that about that one.
But it hurt my feelings that all season you would say--
But I'm just--I'm tired of it. Stop talking about me.
Stop attacking me.
Stop weaponizing my father's death against me.
- Stop making up rumors... - Okay.
that I turned Jen in to the FBI. Leave me alone.
It's basically you're-- You're threatening everyone,
is what you're doing.
- Um... - Yes.
- I mean... - That's how I see it.
- Yep. - I'm just stating...
that I have information... - Yep.
and that I can use it if I choose or not.
- Okay, well, that's a threat. - That is a threat.
- Yeah. - All right. Pretty much.
I wanna bring up something that it's been floating around,
and there was some kind of a rumor that Meredith and Jen
were seeing the same... guy at some point.
Like I said earlier, I haven't dated anyone
other than my husband for well over two years.
I can't speak for Jen. She can speak for herself.
- I have no clue. - Yeah, that's not true.
Whitney, have you heard rumors
about the other ladies in this group?
Heather, have you heard rumors about the other ladies
in this group? - Of course.
- Jen, have you heard--Thank you. - I would like to know what
the rumors about me. - Lisa, have you heard rumors
about the others? - Yes, everybody.
Have you heard anything about me, Whitney?
- Thank you. It is true. - I'm done.
Have you heard anything about m dating any of the--No.
But it doesn't mean they're true.
- You have a sister wife. - [laughs]
And it doesn't make 'em true, either.
- No. - Like, somebody DM'd me
something crazy about, like-- - Me?
- No. I would know. - [laughs] Yeah, Andy,
I've heard stuff about you, too. - No.
[laughter]
- This is ammunition. - People say things all the time.
Like, I called her, joking with her...
You know, and that's why-- That's why I feel like--
and I'm like, "Oh, I heard you hooked up with Meredith
in a steakhouse." Like, there's a joke.
Like, I was, like, laughing about it.
I'm like, that's, like, crazy. Like, nobody would believe that.
But there's stuff people say all the time.
- No, there's tons of stuff. - All right, well...
- [laughs] Let's move on, Andy. - And some has more evidence
attached to it than others. - [laughs]
Well, we're gonna leave it there.
We're gonna take a break,
and we're gonna be right back after this.
[machine beeps]
Do we get a real break now or no?
Can we talk or no?
I don't think we can talk off-camera right now
in the middle of this.
I'm gonna go to the restroom really quick.
We're--We're resetting for the husbands.
I wanna go to the restroom also.
No...
Thank you.
I did not ever mean to hurt you. I understand that hurting you
hurts Seth, Reid, Chloe, and Brooks.
You spoke poorly of my whole family.
And--And...
What would I say about your renovation?
I didn't talk about your house, Lisa.
That's what I was told, and I was--
- Okay, so it was--Okay. - It was only about that.
So your ugly house issue, rip my character to shreds.
- Okay. Wonderful. - No. No, it wasn't--Oh, yeah.
♪♪♪
Next week, it's the dramatic conclusion
of "The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" Reunion.
- Love you guys. - I love you back, bro.
Seth, Lisa screaming that Meredith
had sex with half of New York, questioning why you don't
own a house--what was your reaction to that rant?
Sharrieff, have you two had crises of infidelity
in your marriage? - Hmm.
Stuart's changed his plea. He pled guilty,
which people regard as being very bad for the case.
What was your reaction to that?
♪♪♪
Any claim against you is on the docket.
Bitch, don't talk to me about a ----ing docket.
- I know what it is. - Okay, bitch. Okay, bitch.
I can yell just as loud as you. I can poke just as far as you.
- I see what you're doing here. - Oh, what? What am I doing?
I see what you're doing here. Turning the narrative.
Do any of you think she's guilty?
♪♪♪