Tonight, part two of
"The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" Reunion.
I don't think I'd be married to Meredith anymore
if we didn't engage in taint play.
- All right, enough. Enough. - Okay.
You really were gonna keep running with that.
The hard part I have is watching you make fun of Lisa.
I've never said anything derogatory about Meredith.
I could not process what was going on at that time
due to other things that were going on in my life...
- But you were saying it long-- - ...that I had no support
from my friends on, and you know what?
Well, I was supporting you. So I'll exclude myself from that.
No, you were not.
How long can I keep myself open to repairing something
that you don't wanna repair?
She pled guilty. That doesn't make you have any reaction?
After she's sentenced, I'm sure I will have more of an opinion.
Are you scared of her coming after you
by saying something about it?
There was speculation that she pled guilty to keep Coach
from being implicated.
If that was true, it makes sense.
So does that mean you think he possibly had knowledge
and is letting her take the fall?
Part two of "The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" Reunion
starts now.
We are back with
"The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" Reunion.
I'm Andy Cohen.
Angie K., at the finale,
you said she may have received the black eye
during Barbie scissor kicks and suggested that
it may be the result of some sort of sexcapade gone wrong.
Everybody is saying that perhaps her and Heather
were in their room doing Barbie scissor kicks
and then Jen beat the sh-- out of her.
What led you to believe that?
Well, I was talking to some people, and they said,
"Have you ever heard of any sexual relations
between Heather and Jen?"
And I have never heard that before,
so I assumed, okay, this is obviously...
You've been friends with her for 20 years.
You thought we'd had a sex act?
Girl, there's a lot of things I didn't know about Jen.
I know--I don't know things about your sexual life.
Well, to add insult to injury,
now I had--it's a sexcapade
with Jen that I'm covering up for my blackout,
so just is getting better.
No, but you have to ima-- you have to understand
what people were thinking watching you on top of Jen.
You know where it was?
And what?
- You looked like you maybe... - It wasn't a sex injury.
I mean, I understand why she would ask that.
And if it was, I don't remember,
and I've never been attracted to Jen like that.
Let me ask you this. As a woman who wakes up
with a black eye and scratches,
I mean, didn't you want to find the person who did it?
I kind of felt like
because I had been drinking, whatever happened to me,
I deserved it, and I just felt embarrassed and ashamed.
Oh, that's terrible.
Well, Heather, I'm glad you're safe, at least,
despite all of the confusion,
and I hope you give yourself a break because
it's certainly not worth the shame spiral that
you're putting yourself through.
All right, Angie H., Angie K., and Danna,
thanks so much for joining us. - Thank you.
We're gonna let you go,
and we'll be right back after this.
- Love you. - I love you, and I'm so sorry.
Don't be ashamed.
Oh, can we do that really quick?
- Can we get a photo? - Yes, let's do it.
It's like, they were all right, you know?
You go to the dark side, and look what happens.
You fall off the--you know,
you become this debaucherous fool,
and I'm so embarrassed.
I don't wanna block-- I'm blocking Danna.
All right, here we go, guys.
Five, four, three, two...
Back with "The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" Reunion.
Throughout this season, Whitney took us on her healing journey,
as she worked toward moving past her childhood pain.
This must have been
an incredibly difficult time for you.
How did you unlock these memories in the first place?
There was something that would haunt me,
and this last couple years,
I started having physical manifestations,
meaning like I was having all these health problems,
and that's where I started doing memory recall work,
'cause I kind of always knew that there was...
Something else.
Something else, and...
it--it started coming back to me,
and I never imagined that I'd be questioned about it,
that I'd get hate for it, that that was--
Who's questioned you? The viewers? Your family?
I felt like my cast members questioned me,
and then viewers.
Given where your relationship, uh, has gone this season,
did you feel like you were able to support her
in the way that you would've
had you two been in a better place?
No, because we didn't ever discuss it
if we weren't on camera.
Well, after the dinner in Arizona,
when she told me that my healing journey was childish,
foolish, sloppy, and I made the trip about myself...
You arranged this trip. You wanted to celebrate Jen,
not to work through all of your personal issues
and your issues and friendship with Lisa.
You made it about you.
This--I did not make this about me.
The first night was about you, and you were crying,
and we talked all about your childhood abuse.
Why would I ever come back to you
and try to have a conversation about that?
I did not realize that that was what we were talking about,
and I am horrified that you would think
that I would ever dismiss your feelings like that.
- That's where-- - That's not how I've ever been.
It's not how I ever would be, and that would have been
a complete anomaly for how I feel about you.
How does it feel hearing what she's saying now?
Does that change anything for you?
Not yet.
- Not yet. - Mnh-mnh.
Jay from Little Rock said, "Whitney, have you spoken
to your abuser since these memories resurfaced?"
- No. - You have not.
Have not.
I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Thank you.
They're cousins, ex-Mormons, and good time girls,
but we experienced Bad Weather this season,
as Heather and Whitney's relationship
went from bright and sunny to dark and stormy.
Let's watch.
Distant cousins. The buzzin' cousins.
Angie told us that John Barlow and Lisa...
Babe, that was--we--
...have those tickets because Lisa sleeps with [bleep].
- And you were there. - I did not hear it.
- You were there. - It's a lie.
At a very basic level,
if Heather can't validate my feelings and hear me,
then I probably have to take a friendship break.
You know what? For me, loyalty's a----ing deal-breaker.
Deal broken.
I feel very sad that Bad Weather
has been, like, a dark rain cloud over your head.
Be free, young Whitney.
I will not hold you back any longer...
- That's--that's not what-- - ...and live your best life.
I want Bad Weather back. I think that we're stronger together.
I think that's taking me for granted
to assume that it would come back like it was.
Okay, so I don't think anyone saw this one coming.
Where do the two of you stand now?
I mean, it's not good.
Buzz from L.A. said, "Whitney, after watching the episode back,
do you stand by calling Heather a liar?
If you told the story again sober,
do you think you'd have the same outcome?
It would be the same conversation--
why are you lying about this?
I didn't hear you say that, Whitney.
I've come to--I've come to the terms that she doesn't remember.
I never heard you say those rumors about Lisa.
I've accepted that. I-I don't agree, but I accept it.
Angie said she never said it.
You believe now that she never--
But being drunk, it makes it so messy
because I get confused with my words,
and when you're going up against someone
who's like a master debater, it's hard.
Who's a master debater? Heather?
- Heather. - Me?
- Yes. - Oh. Thank you.
- Congratulations. - Thank you.
Fola from Atlanta said, "Heather, if you choose
to recuse something from your memory,
that is your right.
Is that your way of saying that
you did hear the rumors about Lisa?"
No, I did not hear the rumor that became the big flame,
but I did hear rumors about Lisa
in my bedroom when we arrived in Arizona.
Meredith has talked to you about rumors about Lisa?
Mm-hmm.
About what?
Um, like, affairs.
But what Meredith has heard is that Lisa has performed
sexual favors for the advancement of Vida.
Vida Tequila?
So that's why I was trying-- they were conflated.
The details are gonna trip us up.
I was just trying to answer. I was--
Why--Why that one rumor, though?
- There's two separate issues. - Why that one thing?
There's two separate issues.
If you wanna say horrible things about people
and I choose to not believe it and not ever repeat it,
I don't want you to come and say, "I told you,
therefore you're-- you're part of this."
That's not fair. That's me recusing myself from it.
Why would--why would her--
But I also didn't hear that rumor.
Why would her calling you a liar evoke such a huge reaction?
Because I wasn't lying.
- I thought she was referencing. - Yeah, and--
- Let's just be real. - Well--
Nobody likes being called a liar.
- She called me a liar, too. - I said, "That's a lie."
She was equally calling me a liar.
You called me a liar and a drunk.
Meredith from Mead, Washington, said, "Heather, you say
you're a loyal friend, because you kept forgiving
and defending Jen, despite her constant lies
and scamming innocent victims.
Didn't Whitney deserve at least the same patience
and grace you gave Jen for far worse?"
That's an interesting point.
Do you think she holds you to a different standard
that she holds Jen?
- Definitely. - Absolutely.
I hold her to an absolutely different standard.
You hold her to a higher standard.
- Much higher. - But your actions
don't convey that. Like, Jen can do anything to you,
and you'll go running right back.
Yeah, because I hold her to a lower standard.
I-I called you a liar over a rumor.
And I was upset by it because I hold you to a higher standard.
And--but that's, like, that's the only thing I've ever done.
Do you think that her newfound friendship with Lisa
clouded your judgment of Whitney?
Yes, 100%. It felt like such a quick pivot, such a 180,
that it made me question everything.
My question is, though, is, like, Heather, you and I
were working on our friendship, so I would think that
you would want me and Whitney to be friends, too.
- Like, I would think that-- - I-I would.
- Yeah, I thought we were-- - I was--I thought we were
all working toward it. That's why when she said,
"Should I discuss these rumors with Lisa?"
I said, "Absolutely not right now.
Do it in a constructive, positive way,"
and I think it really was a giant step backward
for your friendship and for our friendship
and for our friendship.
- But it wasn't a step where-- - Yeah, but you can't put
all that blame on me. - It wasn't--It wasn't a step
backward for me and Meredith because--
No, I just--When that happened--
She's just--she's just saying that's how she felt.
And you two are still tight.
- Yeah, I love Whitney. - Yeah, very close.
E.J. from Atlanta said, "Heather, you seemed shocked
to find out you and Whitney were on a friendship break.
Whitney, why did you talk with everyone but Heather
about the break?"
I literally made that decision in that conversation
in the hot tub right before San Diego.
What Jen was doing was deflecting from the fact
that she had said a lot about Heather in the hot tub,
because I have received so many texts,
"I----ing hate Heather," and I'm like,
"If you----ing hate Heather..." - Yeah.
...you need to talk to her about it.
- By the way... - But--
...you bring up a really good point,
because the flashbacks that they showed
of you ladies in the hot tub,
I mean, Jen was slagging you off.
I felt better when I walked in,
and Heather was, like, not in charge,
'cause I was like, if Heather's in charge,
this is not a real thing.
Heather has always made me feel like,
"Jen, you need as many friends as you can get,
so just roll with it."
Heather is my friend 60% of the time.
The point I'm at in my life with everything I'm going through,
I don't need friends like that.
Were you upset by anything that you saw?
- I have--I have-- - No, Heather--
You wanna see "I----ing hate Heather"? I got it.
Were you upset by anything that you saw Jen saying about you?
- Absolutely. - You were.
I was completely upset, and I--when I saw that--
- Did you confront her about it? - Yeah, when I saw that play out,
I texted her and said, "When did you get so good at math? 60%?"
But Whitney was talking bad about me, too.
- Unh-unh, no, I was not. - No, she was not. She did not.
Uh, let me--let me--can I speak? This is my question.
I just--everyone was talking bad about me.
- I'm upset with everyone. - No, they weren't.
You're blanket statement-ing it, Heather. It's not true.
Heather, Heather, I did not talk badly about you.
I said, I need to put up some boundaries
because I feel like I keep working on the relationship,
and you keep shutting me down, and you're not receptive to it.
How long can I keep myself open to repairing something
that you don't wanna repair?
Up next...
- She pled guilty. - Right.
That doesn't make you have any reaction?
I'm sure I will have more of a opinion on it.
Are you scared of her?
How long can I keep myself open to repairing something
that you don't wanna repair?
And it very much was a break. We weren't talking every day.
We weren't doing things together, and I swear to God,
I never said anything bad about you in that hot tub.
- She did not. - Jen absolutely did.
Did you see a flashback of her talking bad about you
in the hot tub, or did you hear it from Jen?
I can't remember anything specifically.
Just--Just the thought of, you know,
your go-to engaging in any part of that conversation
just felt-- it felt like a betrayal.
Did it feel like a betrayal when you saw
how Jen was speaking?
Yes, absolutely. It felt like a betrayal.
But you texted her and not me.
We already knew where we were because of BravoCon.
Who reaches the most on camera? Whitney Rose.
How?
You decided that you just were gonna dump me as a friend,
not tell me, and that to me, feels like a reach.
I--No. No, no, no, no, no.
And because of the things
that you said on your podcast about me.
Honestly, when it comes to Heather, I...
I'm no longer gonna hold back.
She needs to go look in the mirror and tell herself
her own lies until she realizes she's lying to herself.
- Mm-hmm. - And that's what happens
when people don't live in their own truth.
They don't know what the truth is,
so they hide behind a disguise of manipulation and gaslighting.
- So I knew how we felt. - That was after BravoCon.
You were the one at BravoCon that flipflopped on me.
- Okay. - But--But I want you to know
something about Jen. I did not say anything bad--
I don't wanna litigate Jen. She's not here.
Yeah, but you should know something.
- And I shouldn't-- - She was so nasty that day.
Yes, she would say, "[bleep] Heather.
My lawyers----ing hate Heather. Sharrieff hates Heather,"
and we shut it down. You know what?
Okay, so Jen's a horrible person.
What do you guys want me to do?
We're not saying that. I'm telling you.
- What am I in trouble for? - In this situation, Whitney--
you were throwing Whitney under the bus for Jen.
You even said it at the Marilyn Monroe dinner
that you're ride-or-die Jen to Whitney, who was asking you
to hear her, hear her feelings and telling her--
I'm not using that term "ride-or-die" anymore.
I've seen a lot. I'm processing a lot.
- Okay. - I saw a lot of information,
and I'm saying to both of you
I appreciate your deep concern for my loyalty to Jen.
I don't think it's really an issue anymore.
- It's not. That's--Okay. - I don't--I don't--
This is where we're wordsmithing.
- That's not an issue. - No, wait, wait.
This is where we're wordsmithing.
It's not about your loyalty to Jen. It's about her feelings.
No, it's not--No, it's about-- it's about--
Is it about her loyalty to Jen versus her loyalty to you?
Yeah. I have zero loyalty to me.
Okay, I feel like I've tried to be a loyal friend to you.
Shawn M.J. from Cincinnati raised a sentiment
that we got a lot, which is, um, "Is there something going on
in your life off camera
that's making you act differently this year?
The way you handled a lot of conflicts,
especially with Whitney, seemed out of character
from the way that we've seen you in the past."
What would you put your finger on there?
We were dealing with a lot of really, heavy, heavy topics,
which is uncomfortable for me.
Topics--her dealing with her past abuse?
And we're talking about childhood trauma,
felony charges, prison... - Okay.
...adultery, and I, writing the book,
made me especially vulnerable.
I had to revisit my entire childhood.
A lot of really cathartic things in the book that made
my emotions come to the surface and made me less stable
and less amenable to being a good person.
I guess for me, you seemed like, to me,
for the first couple seasons,
like kind of the epitome of the kind of "own it" girl,
and this season it seemed really confusing.
- Yeah. - I was having a hard time
following your train of thought.
Watching it back, I have a hard time
following my train of thought, but I think there were victories
like I realized that I'd been insensitive to Lisa on ski day,
and I went straight over to you
and was accountable and apologized.
I'm trying to find moments of accountability and clarity
and steps forward.
I think for all of us, we all have moments of weakness.
We all have other things going on in our lives.
I think every one of us will say we see things play back,
and we recognize, "Wow, I should have done something different."
What are you most nervous about, about the book?
Because you seem to be under pressure relating to it.
It's my family, but coming on the show,
um, was big enough for my family, but, um--
Yeah, you ripped that Band-Aid off.
Yeah. I mean, that was...
- Yeah. - Uh, I've just been schooled
to never talk about these things and that if I did
talk about these things, I would be condemned.
I'm in litigation with the Church,
and if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
is suing me, I can only imagine the reaction
that my community and friends and family are gonna have
when they actually read the book
because I'm talking about the things that are unspoken.
- So this is-- - And you know that's big.
So--So you were working on this book
during the entire season, so you had--
This is an important piece of your story.
It is my story, and I should've been a lot better of a friend,
and I know that it affected me personally.
So the two of you,
where do we see this friendship going from here?
Everything leading up until today
tells me that you want nothing to do with me.
Do you?
Like, you even said it yourself.
- I don't know. -"Once people cross me--"
- You don't know? You don't know. -"Once people cross me,"
she cuts 'em out forever. - I'm sitting here.
I'm listening. I'm trying to receive it.
All right. Well, we're gonna leave it there,
and we're gonna be right back.
- It is already 2:40. - I know.
All right.
- Are we good to go? - Are we going to lunch?
She's playing the victim card.
She knows that she's-- She knows that she's...
Heather's 100% being the victim.
...----ed up, she knows that she looks bad.
She knows that she has flipflopped.
She knows that she's talked sh-- about Jen.
She knows that she doesn't wanna be my friend.
So what she's doing is she's coming in
with her tail between her legs and acting like...
- She can't even-- - ...everything that we have done
is to her so that no one can, like, argue it.
This is hard because she's so subdued.
I'm like, who is this person?
I don't even know who this person is.
They're coming back.
All right, guys, two minutes or less. Two minutes or less.
- You look good, babe. - Oh, are you on our couch?
- Yeah. - In between us?
- 90 more seconds. - I like that.
Can we get closer, Meredith, or is that...
No.
I know.
I don't have a husband either.
You're my husband.
- ...Clear the set. - Oh, she did?
Okay, I will keep this as painless as possible.
- Okay, we're looking this way. - All right, in five...
four... three...
two... one.
Welcome back to
"The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" Reunion.
- Welcome, husbands. - Hi, Andy.
- Thank you. - How you doing, John Barlow?
- Great. Thanks for having me. - Thanks for coming.
- How are you, sir? - I'm doing great.
Looks like career shift has-- it's working well for you.
Yeah, we've got the unemployment beard working right now.
- Nice. - Yeah.
- Hey, Seth. - Hey, Andy.
Has Brett Favre reached out to you for a meetup?
My perfect boyfriend is Brett Favre.
Unfortunately, no.
Now I'm actually looking for a new man crush.
- Okay. Okay. - Yes.
You're looking good tonight.
Uh, Alyssa from Chicago said, "Justin, I'm so sorry
to hear about the loss of your job.
What have you been up to since parting ways
with your old company?
Once I got over the anxiety of the uncertainty
of just not knowing what's coming next,
it was pretty awesome.
You know, I know that when it was discussed,
that clip of you and Whitney...
- Mm-hmm. - ...canoodling, so to speak.
Okay.
- Ohh! - Exactly.
I mean, did they specifically say,
"We don't like how you're behaving on the show"?
- No. - No. It--
Nothing specific was ever said about it,
but it happened right after that.
Got it.
And I think that was kinda like a... "Hey, we're..."
- The last straw. - Yeah.
Seth, anything that crosses the line for you
when it comes to filming?
We obviously saw you take a bubble bath with Meredith.
Thank you for that, by the way.
I wish you would've done a little more, but...
That's the whole thing. Like, everyone's making it look like
it's this big, sexy moment.
It was, like, we were chatting in the tub.
So Brooksy, I think, is coming out to visit soon.
Please do not put your foot near my taint
while you're talking about our children.
A toe in the taint is pretty sexy.
My foot was under his butt cheek
so I wouldn't slip. That's all it was.
- It was a leverage point. - Exactly.
Got it.
Blair from Connecticut is worried, Lisa and John,
that you're spoiling Jack with the Range Rover,
fancy vacations, expensive clothes.
Do you have any regrets about the way you've raised him,
and do you take responsibility for him
not having interest in college?
I have no regrets. He's a great kid.
He's really helpful around the house.
Since he was in, like, sixth grade,
we've never had to wake him up.
He gets himself up. He gets himself to school,
manages his work schedule, manages school schedule.
We do remind him that he's got some good things going, too.
- Yeah. - So keep him humble.
There are some times where we're like, "It's not yours."
John and Seth, the strain in your wives' relationship
clearly affected yours and made for some awkward moments.
Seth, you seemed caught off-guard
when Lisa approached you and tried to apologize
at Coach Shah's party.
Can I hug you? Is it okay?
You don't have to.
That's huge.
It was crazy, so I'm still not understanding.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Did you expect to have that conversation that night?
No, I'm--I don't like confrontation,
and I was still shocked by it all,
so I was trying to kind of avoid it.
It was a hard conversation for me to have, too,
and it's hard to keep reliving over and over again.
I didn't think I was gonna talk that long,
and I definitely didn't wanna make it awkward for Seth.
But I definitely wanted him to know, like, "Hey, I'm sorry."
Dennis from Cleveland wants to know how John felt
when he heard Meredith was involved with rumors
about Lisa's infidelity.
Uh, it was--it was hurtful. You know, I, uh,
I just took it for what it was, just a crusade
to retaliate towards Lisa.
Um, Seth and John, do you realistically think
the two of you can be friends if your wives aren't?
I have a lot of friends
that Meredith's not friends with their wife,
and so I would say yeah.
The hard part I have is watching you make fun of Lisa,
like in the closet when you guys were talking about
the whole richer than whatever thing,
and having 50 cents in your hand or whatever.
Look what I found.
Oh, my gosh.
So Lisa Barlow's no longer the richest one.
You should give that to her, make her richer.
Our understanding was to not get involved
or talk about our wives.
I've never said anything derogatory about Meredith,
and so that kinda hurt.
I apologize if the commentary was hurtful.
The whole world knows you guys work together.
The whole world knows you have more than 50 cents to your name.
They were so egregious that it was mean to be funny,
not meant to be hurtful and cruel.
Thank you, Meredith. What was hard for me, Seth,
is you didn't stop Meredith when she was saying
affair, rumors, and things like that in your kitchen.
During that conversation,
John would have been like, "You need to stop."
Seth and John, can Meredith and Lisa be friends again,
do you think?
Can there be peace in the Middle East?
- Yes. - Oh, my gosh.
Then yes.
I think there can be, yeah.
I think I can help you two, though.
- I can bring you back together. - How?
I just know both of them. We're all the same person.
We're supporting our wife through this whole process,
and... and I--
- I think you mean Seth and I. - Yes.
I'm talking about Seth and John.
He probably-- He probably could help.
I didn't know if you were talking about me and Lisa
or John and Seth. - Oh, I can bring Meredith
and Lisa back together, too, like, no.
I think you have a new career. You have a new career.
You are officially employed.
- Dr. Phil. - That's exactly right.
Nice. We're gonna leave it there.
I'm gonna let the husbands go, and we'll be right back.
- Thanks, guys. - Thank you.
Thank you.
Coming up...
She said the cost of trial was astronomical,
and they solicited friends for money.
- Did you give them money? - I did not give them money,
but I know on this couch did.
We are back. While this season was full of surprises,
the biggest came after cameras stopped rolling.
After claiming innocence for over a year,
Jen pled guilty.
Let's watch.
I've been going through so much, and you know, my trial starts
in, like, a month and a half.
I'm the only defendant left that is still going to trial.
But I'm not gonna take a plea deal
when I'm not guilty. I'm innocent.
What happens if she is proven guilty? What--What then?
I don't even let myself go there because I'm like,
"I have to believe she's innocent
until they prove her guilty."
Lisa, and I'm kinda right there with you,
because I've had people ask me the same question.
Have either of you ever asked Jen
if she's guilty of any of these charges?
If, in fact, Jen is proclaiming her innocence
when she's really guilty and not taking accountability
to the victims of what she did,
that's a really big problem for me.
Do you have anything to say?
It's a lot.
Do any of you feel like shooting the show
while dealing with the trial changed her mindset?
Did the reality of it kick in for her?
It's so hard to decipher, like,
when you're filming, things are huge
and bigger than life,
and I feel like she got arrested on camera,
this happened while we were filming,
and it was hard for her to realize that these charges
were not just part of the show.
Does that make sense? I think it was really muddled,
and reality kicks in and the cameras go away,
and you're left with your life and it's in shambles, you know?
Because in some ways, she almost became, like, idolized
because of it, right? So...
It fed her ego a little bit. Not a little bit. A lot.
Yeah, like, that would be hard to, like, discern between,
"Did I really do this, or did I not?"
Meredith, season two, you couldn't stand to be around Jen
and said you knew something was off when she was arrested.
Meredith, she's been arrested for fraud.
Honestly, I'm not surprised by this.
Season three, you've done a 180
and blindly stood by her.
How do you justify that now that she's pled guilty?
Guilty, innocent, in between, she is still a human being.
I will always root for the underdog, always.
But you said that if she pled guilty,
you would have a really hard time with it.
Yeah, I said I would struggle with it,
I'd have to understand it,
and of course, that's not something I can do,
'cause she hasn't been sentenced,
so there's a conversation
I have to have at some point in time
that I have been unable to have yet.
How did you go from season two, hiring a private investigator,
saying all these things, that she stole from your store...
My manager called me. I'm like, "Oh, great. What did she buy?"
And she said, "Oh, she spent a few hundred dollars."
"But that's not the problem, Meredith.
There is a green clutch that I know was here,
and it is gone."
...to you supporting her.
That--I never understood where that happened.
Truth of the matter is, months before San Diego,
months before any of you had this information,
I was informed by a very reliable source
that Jen had made an attempt on her life.
And with what I went through, I wasn't playing with that.
There is no chance that I wasn't going to try to support.
But what's interesting is that you said, you know,
"If those victims were actually victimized by her,
then I can't be her friend anymore."
Yes.
Um... I said that I would definitely struggle with it,
and I do have an issue with it.
I'll be honest, but on the flip side,
I also don't think that, like, she should die.
No one is suggesting that she die,
but I'm just trying to parse out your--
I understand, but you also have to understand that when somebody
is in a mental state where they have already made
an attempt on their life and they feel alone
and unsupported...
I know where it goes, okay?
I lived it, and I'm not doing that.
And I don't care what you think of me for it.
I'm just trying to understand your justification
for what you said before, you know, about her
as a felon, criminal, whatever you wanna call it.
I have a lot of things I am trying to reconcile
in my own head with all of this, and quite frankly,
I don't think I can do that until after her sentencing.
You know what, though? I wanna interject here.
When we were in Vail, that was not the situation.
There were a lot of things said, and that was not the situation,
and it is all on camera.
Yes, Lisa, you had a lot to say, too.
Everyone was blindsided. Nobody knew she was arrested.
No, no, no, I did not have a lot to say. I didn't know.
'Cause I had called you from the van,
and you said, "I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised."
You were gloating in the bathtub when it happened.
- I was not gloating. - You were, 100%.
No, I was taking a bath.
- Why did we not have an inkling? - You didn't?
Well, okay. Meredith.
I was not surprised.
Not on this capa--No. Not on this level.
No, I was not surprised.
I'm just saying we're rewriting history.
- That's not the case. - No, I'm not rewriting anything.
I've said it over and over and over again
that I could not process what was going on at that time
due to other things that were going on in my life...
- But you were saying it long-- - ...that I had no support
from my friends on, and you know what?
Well, I was supporting you, so I'll exclude myself from that.
- No, you were not. - That summer before,
you had a lot to say about Jen prior, too,
and I'm just saying that's the truth.
Yes, Jen and I were not getting along prior, too.
We both had a lot to say about each other.
So you dug up on information on her like you did on me.
And we reconciled that, Lisa.
That's when you dug up information on Jen.
Lisa, how does this concern you?
And you dug up information on me.
No, I didn't dig up anything, ever.
You dug up information on me, and you did it on her, too.
- No, I did not. No, I did not... - It's a pattern.
- Okay. All right. - ...when you don't like someone.
- It was sent to me, Lisa. - Yes, it is.
- All right, all right. - Well, I don't care what
you believe. How is that for an answer?
- Clearly, you don't. - Okay.
You would believe someone that lies all the time over me.
Nor do I care what you think or have to say about me.
All right, um, she pled guilty.
She's facing 10-plus years in jail.
Right.
That doesn't make you have any reaction?
You're like a monotone about this?
No, I wouldn't say I'm monotone.
You have no feeling about this whatsoever?
I think it's absolutely terrible and gut-wrenching.
I can't speak to anything
regarding her innocence or guilt, though.
It's not my job. It's not my place.
You had to say about it when she was arrested.
And after. She wasn't invited to parties.
If she was around, you didn't wanna be there.
That had nothing to do with her innocence or guilt.
It had to do with the fact, as I've said--
It's just weird to me that she pled guilty,
and now you have nothing to say about it.
- I was processing. - It was like you had
this strong moral compass last season,
and none this season? - After she's sentenced,
I'm sure I will have more of an opinion on it.
There's, like, none this season?
Are you scared of her? Are you scared of her coming after you
by... saying something about it?
Are you scared of her coming after you
by saying something about it?
No, because if I were afraid of that,
why would I have bothered confronting her last year?
Right.
Obviously, I'm not afraid of her.
In my view, I am not the judge.
- I am not the jury. - Okay.
- I respect the legal system. - You're quoting me.
I said that multiple times in interviews last year
and got brutalized for being her friend and saying just that.
I'm not quoting you, Lisa. I'm speaking my own mind.
Stop telling me everything that I think and do.
I'm not telling you. I just think it's so confusing that
all last year--all last year-- - Oh, my gosh.
- I'm not interested. - All last year--
You kind of were the judge and jury...
- Yes, yes. - ...before she was even tried.
No, I had one moment in Vail where we all reacted
- Ohh. - After that, I didn't engage
with Jen for the rest of the season.
Maddie from Monterey said,
"Jen was actively committing fraud
while showing her life on TV.
Do any of you think she truly believed she was innocent?"
I think she believed she was innocent.
- I thought she believed she was. - You do?
Yeah, I don't know why you would sign up to be a Housewife...
- I don't either. - ...if you were running
a telemarketing scheme. - And it was imminent.
It was happening when she signed up to be a Housewife.
- Yeah. - Right, the investigation
was happening. Right. - Yeah.
- They had to have known. - Sealed indictment
was on the day you announced our show at BravoCon.
- Wow. That's incredible. - And what does that mean?
Jen didn't know about it yet. They were in--
- Because it had been... - Oh, got it.
- ...a grand jury investigation. - So she had no idea.
And they're trying to get more information on more people.
How did you know that?
I read it somewhere-- I don't know--
in some of the stuff. - But I mean, was her name listed
in it at that time, or was it added on later?
I-I don't know. It was sealed, so I--
I have to assume it was mentioned, but it was sealed.
- It was sealed. - Naya from Milwaukee said,
"There's been very little mention of the victims
of Jen's fraud.
Has Jen shown any remorse to any of you
about the people she defrauded?"
No.
Well, I-I was quoted in an article,
and she wrote me and said,
"Tell me who my victims are, bitch."
Yeah.
It's safe to say that everyone believes
she will serve time for this. - Yes.
Pearl from Montclair wants to know,
"Heather, if Jen goes to jail, how do you plan to support her?"
Will you visit her?
I mean, it depends on where she goes.
I mean, I will write her if she wants that,
and I will look in on Omar and Coach and I don't know.
There was speculation that she pled guilty
to keep Coach from being implicated in any way.
Is that anything that any of you thought?
I thought about that.
Like, if that was true, it makes sense.
Sharrieff is a lovely person,
and he's always, like, so on, right?
That sometimes it always struck me
as, like, too good to be true.
So does that mean you think he possibly had knowledge
and is letting her take the fall?
Possibly. I think it's a theory, a possibility.
It's possible that he had knowledge.
I mean, they have to file taxes together.
What do you think?
I don't know the first thing about their relationship.
I think it's, you know, pulling on a thread.
I don't think you could be so supportive
if you knew she was implicated.
- Right. - 'Cause we were there with them,
and it was like he wanted to read everything.
- Going through the evidence. - Didn't you think, like,
maybe Sharrieff knew when we met?
- Do you think that's an act? - Like, there's a possibility.
- No? - Because, look, when we...
I mean, I don't know anything anymore.
When we met for lunch, you brought up the fact that,
like, hey, how could Sharrieff not know?
I think that Coach discovered what Jen was doing
and that it was impossible to explain away.
I really feel like it was financial,
and they saw something that was, like, "Listen, it's not worth
rolling the dice, because it's gonna be so expensive,
and if it's not a clear win, we can't risk it."
She said the cost of trial was astronomical.
Just to get the transcripts was $2,000 a day
and that the cost was overwhelming,
and they solicited friends for money.
- Got it. - Mm-hmm.
And a lot of our friends gave them money.
- Did you give them money? - I did not give them money,
but I know people on this couch did.
- Not right now. - Wait.
Angie Harrington gave her money.
Wow.
How long did Angie know her?
They asked. They just asked, and Chris has it,
and so he gave them money. - No, no, no, how long did they--
I'm just curious, like, how long they knew each other.
- Wait. - 'Cause I think that's
a very new relationship, too. - It is, but I think that
they knew that the Harringtons had money,
and Chris didn't hesitate to help as he could.
Is that why the @shahxposed thing went away so quick?
- Yeah. - I don't know, you guys.
I'm just saying financial strain was huge.
- Mm-hmm. - And a lot of people that...
gave her money. - They asked John. They asked me.
- Yeah. That's what I'm saying. - Yep.
Like, no one's--they asked people for money.
It was very expensive,
and a lot of people came forward with money.
And none of you guys gave it to them like Angie did.
- I didn't because... - I didn't give them money.
I didn't because our counsel said we probably shouldn't.
- Got it. - I can't.
Otherwise, I would've. I was ready to.
So, Heather, you and Lisa
discuss the "guilty" plea over lunch.
Why do you believe Coach encouraged her to plead guilty?
For the financial strain and that it was just
an uphill battle, and I have to assume it was something
that he thought wasn't worth rolling the dice,
just some sort of smoking gun. - You also believe that there was
something that became clear-- - It was in a text or something
she had sent to Stu that basically incriminated her.
I don't know the details, but I would assume
it was something like a smoking gun...
- Some piece of evidence... - ...that showed knowledge.
- ...that they--right. - They dropped one charge,
and she's only pled guilty to conspiracy,
which means she had knowledge of what was going on.
You told Lisa you believed Jen really did commit the crime
after she pled guilty.
If you believe she committed fraud,
why continue to support her?
Because she's said she committed fraud and she's going to prison,
and she's making $15 million restitution,
and I think me being mean to her or mad at her
is just a virtue signal to the world
and doesn't do anyone any good, and, like,
I'm this far down the road with her.
I'm not gonna drop her now.
You were very emotional at that lunch with Heather. Why?
I'll get emotional again because
there's a part of me that, like, loved her so much,
and I was--she sucked me in,
and there's the good times,
and then Jen would cut me,
criticize how I treated my wound,
and then told me it was my fault.
That's the relationship I was in,
and so I'm sad about the nice times
or when she was cute with my kids,
but I'm not sad about the horrible times.
I don't miss that part.
All right. Okay, we're gonna leave it there.
Uh, we're gonna be back after this.
We're good.
Okay.
I'm gonna run to the restroom.
This? All this? Like... Am I a baby?
No. I just--I have--I have cried so much this year.
I just think that I-- I'm cried out.
You feel a different kind of worse. How about that?
All right, about a minute to Andy.
Four, three, two...
We are back with our final moments
with "The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City."
What a dramatic evening.
You're really emotional. What's up?
Just a lot, you know? Lot of heavy topics.
I mean, I think you're crying because I just asked you
if you feel better than you felt 12 hours ago
at the beginning of the day,
and I expected you to say that you were relieved
and you had gotten a lot off your chest.
- No. - But you clearly...
- Maybe you feel worse. - It's just, you know,
this show has brought, like, so much good to my life,
you know? - Mm-hmm.
But it's also showed me
a lot of ways I have to improve, you know?
Got a closer look at yourself,
and you didn't love what you saw?
I just got a closer at, like, you know,
how tumultuous these waters have been,
and we've all been through a lot, you know?
- Mm-hmm. It's real life. - These are big, big,
heavy, heavy, heavy issues, and I feel ill-equipped
to be up here talking about any of 'em, you know?
I wanted to ask each of you to tell me
what your biggest regret of the season was.
Uh, who wants to start?
- I mean, I can start. - Okay.
Uh, my biggest regret is not going to bed immediately
when we came home from the club, the Marilyn Monroe night.
Just gone to bed and stopped drinking
and stopped playing around, and, um,
that's my biggest regret.
Because you have a lot of shame about the black eye.
- Oh, immense, yeah. - What do you think
it's gonna take for you to work through that?
I mean, I'm in therapy, so... just continue
making positive changes and recognizing my past
and what I've come from.
Is this something that you've talked about in therapy--
the black eye?
- Oh, yeah. - Yeah?
Of course.
Whitney, what's your biggest regret of the season?
I wish I would have waited until I was sober
to have the conversation surrounding the rumors.
But I was kind of hoping that you would say
that one of your regrets is not mending our friendship.
I know that I gave it a valiant effort and tried.
She said she's figuring it out. Meredith?
I-I think my biggest regret is not being more clear
and careful with my words.
What about you, Lisa?
For me, I just learned a lot this season.
Um, so I don't wanna call it a regret,
but I wish I had, um, more boundaries with Jen,
and I'm grateful for so much more.
- Thank you very much. - Oh.
- Thank you. - That actually looks lovely.
Beautiful. It actually does look lovely.
- Thank you, really lovely. - Beautiful.
- Well deserved. - Better than a churro.
Thank you so much.
- Better than what? - A churro.
- Yes, you're right. - Last year's churro.
Yeah, you're right. Well... [sighs] ladies...
you've been through a lot, and through it all,
you have each personally prevailed,
and you certainly, um, delivered a really enjoyable season.
- And let's go, Jazz. - Go, Jazz.
- Courtside seats. - Jazz!
- Cheers to courtside seats. - Cheers.
And, Lisa and Meredith,
since you've both celebrated birthdays this week,
our wish for your birthday
is that you find a path to reconciliation,
and we have a cake for the two of you.
- Oh! - I love it!
- A little joint... - It was $80,000.
...Meredith and Lisa cake. Ladies, why don't you come in
and joint blow this out? - I love it.
Will you switch with me so I can have the pink side?
- Yes. Yes. - Okay.
Even though this is my good side.
Oh, perfect.
Thank you. See, that's the first step
towards reconciliation. - There you go.
I'm giving up my good side. She came to the bad side
so I could have the pink side. - Okay.
Make a wish then. Make a good wish.
- There you go. - Wait. Should we sing?
- ♪ Happy birthday to us - ♪ Happy birthday to you
♪ Happy birthday
- ♪ Dear Lisa and Meredith - Us.
♪ Dear Meredith and Lisa
- ♪ Happy birthday to us - ♪ Happy birthday to you
- Nice. - Whoo!
- Very good. - Nice.
Cheers. That was cute. Good.
- I love it. - Thank you.
- I need a piece of this. - You've got it now.