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Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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[rain pattering]
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[rain pattering intensifies]
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[windshield wipers swishing]
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-[door shuts]
-[door handle clicks]
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Hey, ma'am?
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-Do you need any prayer today?
-[woman] No, thanks.
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Okay, you have a good day.
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[woman] You too.
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[women chattering]
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Hey, y'all, I was gonna ask,
do y'all need any prayer tonight?
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I'm just out here praying for people,
and I share my testimony with people
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and pray with them.
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This is me.
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I lived transgender before,
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and I left everything
to follow Jesus Christ.
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-Are you believers?
-[women] Yes.
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So, Father God,
I just thank you for my sisters tonight,
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Lord, that I met,
fellow believers in you, Jesus.
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And I just bless them,
in Jesus Christs' name I pray. Amen.
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[women] Amen.
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This was me. I lived transgender.
Drugs, alcohol, and homosexuality.
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I was really deep in sin,
and I left everything to follow the Lord
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'cause He's an amazing,
powerful God, and He loves us.
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And so I just-- I share my journey
with other people to encourage them.
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You know,
we can always use prayer every day.
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[young man] Bless them, Father,
in Jesus Christs' name,
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to follow you and to know you, Lord.
Let us know you. Amen.
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-[woman 2] Amen.
-I lived as a woman.
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I left everything to follow Jesus Christ.
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Let her never forget, Father,
how important and loved she is to you.
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In Jesus Christs' name. Amen.
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I was promiscuous with a lot of men,
prostituted my body.
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I share the Gospel
and what happened in my life,
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and how God set me free from this identity
'cause I was trying to become a woman.
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I'm not a woman. I'm a man.
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Father, I just thank you
for everything you've done.
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By the Father, by the Son, Jesus,
and by you, Holy Spirit.
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In Jesus Christs' name. Amen.
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[laptop clicks]
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[keys tapping]
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[Jeffrey] So, this would have been me.
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It says, "in bondage" and "set free."
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The biggest things
that Jesus is to me is truth.
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When you know the truth,
the truth sets you free.
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I believe the Bible,
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that these people will not inherit
the Kingdom of God.
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I do believe that people can change
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and have a refreshing,
renewing over their whole sexuality.
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The Holy Spirit can give you
new desires and wants.
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Jesus can transform you.
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[ethereal vocal music playing]
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[music continues]
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[indistinct chattering]
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[assistant 1] Take one, marker.
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-[assistant 2] Are you good with that?
-[director] Yeah.
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[music fades]
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[man] We were the leaders
of the ex-gay movement.
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We believed that
there was something desperately wrong,
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that there was
something pathological about it,
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that it was not your normal state,
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wasn't what God intended,
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that something must have happened
to "make you gay."
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We really believed
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that gay people could be saved.
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This is what the Bible says.
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It says that some of you
were homosexuals, right?
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But you've changed. You've been washed.
You've been transformed.
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We believed what we were doing
was the right thing,
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to continue pursuing change,
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and if you didn't want to be gay,
that there was a way out for you also.
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We were doing
what we thought God wanted us to do.
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[ethereal vocal music playing]
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[music intensifies]
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[music fades]
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All right, who wants to do the eggs?
No, it goes in there.
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-[girl] Oh.
-[utensil clatters]
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-[cupboard creaks]
-[cutlery clinking]
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I just need an egg and the yolk,
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so you have to separate the white
from the yolk.
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-How are you supposed to do that?
-[Yvette] Oh my gosh.
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-[girls giggle]
-I have very little confidence right now.
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Wow.
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[both laugh]
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[Yvette laughing]
And you broke the yolk already!
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[girl laughing] Okay.
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-[cameraperson] Is it possible to move?
-[director] Yes.
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[director] Great. Are you good with that?
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[cameraperson] Yeah.
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-Is this mic working?
-[assistant] No, not really, so…
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[interviewer] Then I'm just gonna
lean forward a little bit more.
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You spent six years
as a practicing lesbian.
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[chuckles] I like that word, "practicing."
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What do you mean, "practicing?"
What are you trying to get perfect?
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[both laugh]
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"Practicing" lesbian means
that I was actually in the lifestyle
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and not just struggling with the feelings.
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So I was actually involved
in lesbian relationships.
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[interviewer] Yvette, would you just talk
from your heart
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to those that are trapped
in the lifestyle?
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Well, I know that it is difficult.
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It took me three years
just to overcome same-sex attractions.
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And it was because I was surrounded
by people in the church
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who really loved me.
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But God really healing
the feminine within me
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and showing me that the feminine
is something that he loves,
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that it's something that He created.
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He's the only one
who can touch those deep places.
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[interviewer] That was wonderful.
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[Yvette] I spent a lot of time thinking,
"How did I believe that?"
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and "How was I involved in it
for so long?"
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I didn't come into the church
until I was 27.
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And the reason
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I started going to church
and became a Christian
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was I was looking for something.
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That's absolutely spectacular.
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[Yvette] I didn't really have
those carefree days
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where you think nothing can touch you.
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Death was always prevalent,
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and it was right there.
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-[traffic buzzing]
-[siren wailing]
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-[indistinct chattering]
-[machine beeping regularly]
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[Yvette] I had had 17 friends die of AIDS
during the AIDS crisis.
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My best friend Ed, his partner was also,
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and sort of helped them
when they were having health problems.
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And I was in my twenties,
and this is what was happening.
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When you're just wondering
if the people that you love
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are gonna be here the next day
and the day after that.
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[dramatic music playing]
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[man] I believe
that God does not judge people.
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God judges sin.
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And I do believe that AIDS,
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generally caused and believed to be caused
by homosexual promiscuity,
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is a violation of God's laws,
laws of nature and decency,
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and as a result, we pay the price
when we violate the laws of God.
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[Yvette] So to go into a church situation
that is very structured,
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and the rules are very clear,
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it's a relief,
and I-- and that's exactly how I felt.
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It was a relief.
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[ethereal vocal music playing]
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[music continues]
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[man] I grew up
in a time when it was a crime,
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a sickness,
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and a sin to be gay.
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I wanted desperately to change.
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I had wanted to change
since I was a kid getting bullied for it.
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Our church was a great big megachurch
that I was attending in Anaheim,
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and they had support groups
for divorced people
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and people that were struggling
with alcoholism or drug abuse,
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and I thought, "How come
there's no group for people like me,
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that have gay feelings?"
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So, I got the idea of starting
a support group
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within our own local church.
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[indistinct chattering]
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Everybody felt
that this was a wonderful relief,
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that they didn't
have to struggle alone anymore.
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They didn't have to pretend--
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They didn't have to pretend
they were the only one.
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But we really believed
that if you kept repeating it,
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if you kept claiming
that God was changing you, that He would.
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At that time, we thought
we were the only support group
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like it in the country.
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But then we began to hear that there were
other small ministries like ours
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that were popping up kind of spontaneously
in different parts of the country.
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And we thought, "Wouldn't it be cool
to get together these small ministries
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and discuss together
what we were trying to do
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and what should happen next?"
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So we decided to get together
and form a conference in Anaheim in 1976,
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and that's where
the organization Exodus was born.
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[dramatic music playing]
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[Michael]
And then letters started pouring in
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from Christians
who had no place else to go
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and suddenly were hearing
about this organization
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that might be able to help them.
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There were thousands of people
that were looking for a group like Exodus.
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[ticking]
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It was once unthinkable,
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but today it happens
in households all over America.
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A child comes to breakfast and says,
"Mom, Dad, I think I'm gay,
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but I don't want to be."
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Some parents are learning
about a Christian program called Exodus,
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which claims to convert gays,
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make them ex-gays
with a course of Bible study,
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behavior modification,
and peer counseling.
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John Paulk is vice president of Exodus,
which was founded 21 years ago.
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-Are you straight now?
-I am.
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-You are?
-I am.
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You're not a gay person
who fights with yourself every day?
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No.
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You're not a person
who fantasizes about men?
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-No.
-Never?
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I never would have gotten married
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if I felt on the inside like a gay person.
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[John narrating] It's funny
what to be known for,
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but at one point, I really was
the most famous ex-gay person
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in the world.
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[crowd laughing]
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I arose to national prominence
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because I'm a very articulate person.
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So, I'm articulate, I'm outgoing,
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I was fearless, I stood out in front,
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and I became a figurehead.
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I was the visible person
for this movement.
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[anchorwoman] The woman he married is
a former lesbian he met at Exodus,
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and now they have a baby boy.
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[John] There were many leaders,
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but I was the visual aid
because I had this extreme story
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of married to an ex-lesbian.
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I mean, we were constantly barraged
to be on shows, and talk shows,
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and this newspaper, and that news program,
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-and on, and on, and on.
-[audience applauding]
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[host] Meet John Paulk and Anne Edward.
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At one time, they were both gay.
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Now they are so in love with each other,
they're engaged to be married.
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Both of you find God and say,
"I want to not be gay anymore"?
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[John] Whether you're gay
or whatever you're into,
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it doesn't change the fact God loves you,
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but this was not
God's original intent for you.
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[John narrating] I had become
the chairman of the board of Exodus.
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My role was to get the message out
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that homosexuality was changeable.
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I don't believe that change is possible.
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I believe that homosexuality,
just like heterosexuality,
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is a gift from God.
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[John] Would that be like saying
a child molester can't change,
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or a wife-beater can't change?
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Well, that's-- Now wait a second.
Being gay is not being a child molester.
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No, I-- I'm not comparing it to that.
I'm saying it's a certain behavior.
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There is behavior
that's connected with homosexuality.
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And we're just saying
that if you want to change,
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there is a way to do it.
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[audience applauding]
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[anchorwoman] This Exodus group is one
of more than 100 organizations
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working with gays
who want to lead straight lives.
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[Michael]
We believed that homosexuality
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is a psychological illness
that you needed treatment for.
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Those psychological beliefs,
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everybody now in the psychological,
psychiatric community would agree,
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are outdated and completely wrong.
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[Michael] But Exodus,
at its peak, was the largest organization
242
00:15:27,009 --> 00:15:30,179
promoting reparative therapy
or conversion therapy.
243
00:15:41,107 --> 00:15:44,193
I've been in Love In Action Program
for 660 days.
244
00:15:44,735 --> 00:15:47,989
My powerlessness over homosexuality
and compulsive sexual behavior
245
00:15:48,072 --> 00:15:52,743
has led me into masturbation,
mutual masturbation,
246
00:15:52,827 --> 00:15:56,164
short-term and long-term
homosexual relationships…
247
00:15:56,247 --> 00:16:00,334
[Michael] In conversion therapy,
the explanation for why you are gay
248
00:16:00,418 --> 00:16:02,503
is that you must've been
traumatized as a child.
249
00:16:03,671 --> 00:16:05,673
Either by direct abuse,
250
00:16:06,466 --> 00:16:09,635
sexual molestation,
physical abuse by parents,
251
00:16:10,428 --> 00:16:12,805
or by inadequate or toxic parenting.
252
00:16:14,599 --> 00:16:17,560
If you can resolve those parenting issues,
253
00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:21,105
then your innate heterosexuality
will emerge.
254
00:16:22,857 --> 00:16:27,320
I feel restored and reconciled
with my relationship with my dad.
255
00:16:27,820 --> 00:16:29,113
[sighs deeply]
256
00:16:36,162 --> 00:16:38,581
[crying] 'Cause God has brought
a lot of healing.
257
00:16:39,624 --> 00:16:41,334
[group] We love you, Glen.
258
00:16:41,417 --> 00:16:42,293
I love you.
259
00:16:42,877 --> 00:16:46,839
Very few of the leaders
had any kind of formal education
260
00:16:46,923 --> 00:16:51,010
in psychology,
counseling, human sexuality.
261
00:16:51,093 --> 00:16:53,721
They had no qualifications
to do what they were doing.
262
00:16:53,804 --> 00:16:55,598
My name is Jeff Harwood,
and I've been in love…
263
00:16:55,681 --> 00:16:59,602
[Michael] A lot of the people
that we were counseling had panic attacks
264
00:16:59,685 --> 00:17:01,229
and deep depression.
265
00:17:02,355 --> 00:17:04,941
We had guys
that actually attempted overdose,
266
00:17:05,024 --> 00:17:06,609
attempted suicide
267
00:17:08,402 --> 00:17:11,364
because they felt guilty
that they couldn't change.
268
00:17:12,365 --> 00:17:13,574
[indistinct praying]
269
00:17:16,536 --> 00:17:20,915
I couldn't continue to pretend
that I was changing.
270
00:17:22,083 --> 00:17:26,754
And I couldn't continue to pretend
the people I was "helping" were changing.
271
00:17:28,005 --> 00:17:30,591
And I thought, "Okay, this is enough."
272
00:17:30,675 --> 00:17:32,260
"I'm harming people."
273
00:17:34,178 --> 00:17:36,138
But when I left in 1979,
274
00:17:36,847 --> 00:17:38,849
Exodus kept growing.
275
00:17:48,025 --> 00:17:49,735
[kids chattering in distance]
276
00:17:59,704 --> 00:18:01,581
We'll take a lot of pictures together.
277
00:18:01,664 --> 00:18:05,251
-It's mainly, like, candids of people.
-[Julie] Mm-hmm.
278
00:18:11,924 --> 00:18:14,802
We do things
in a very slower pace, like, no rush.
279
00:18:14,885 --> 00:18:18,055
We do this guided,
but then you do your own thing
280
00:18:18,139 --> 00:18:19,849
for an intentional,
281
00:18:19,932 --> 00:18:21,183
natural look.
282
00:18:21,976 --> 00:18:24,270
Are we looking at the camera? [chuckles]
283
00:18:24,353 --> 00:18:25,730
[photographer] Put your hand here.
284
00:18:25,813 --> 00:18:27,315
-My hand?
-Like that.
285
00:18:27,398 --> 00:18:29,191
[both laugh]
286
00:18:29,275 --> 00:18:30,818
[giggling] I can't do it.
287
00:18:36,115 --> 00:18:37,116
[Julie] Mmm.
288
00:18:42,580 --> 00:18:45,750
-[Amanda] Our wedding website.
-[Julie] Seventy days, babe.
289
00:18:45,833 --> 00:18:48,711
So, I was at an event,
and someone was like, "Where's your wife?"
290
00:18:48,794 --> 00:18:51,547
And I was like, "Fiancée! But soon to be."
291
00:18:51,631 --> 00:18:54,592
She's like, "You're not married?
We all thought you were married."
292
00:18:54,675 --> 00:18:55,509
Yeah, I know.
293
00:18:55,593 --> 00:18:57,511
People thought we were married
like a year ago.
294
00:18:57,595 --> 00:18:59,847
I don't know how.
Maybe we just seem married?
295
00:18:59,930 --> 00:19:02,725
Probably 'cause we're not social
and hang out with our cats all the time.
296
00:19:02,808 --> 00:19:04,435
-It's the cats.
-Is that what it is?
297
00:19:04,518 --> 00:19:07,271
-[Amanda] It's totally the cats. Yep.
-[both laugh]
298
00:19:07,355 --> 00:19:08,731
[ringtone beeping]
299
00:19:08,814 --> 00:19:10,358
[both energetically] Hi!
300
00:19:10,983 --> 00:19:12,026
[Amanda] How are you?
301
00:19:12,109 --> 00:19:14,403
I think I'm more gushy
about your wedding than you guys are.
302
00:19:15,655 --> 00:19:17,281
The dress, I think, is stunning.
303
00:19:17,365 --> 00:19:18,532
-[Julie] Oh!
-It is beautiful.
304
00:19:18,616 --> 00:19:20,409
Do you have any family heirlooms,
305
00:19:20,493 --> 00:19:22,536
or anything that reminds you
of a grandmother,
306
00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:25,456
or something that's significant
in your family as well,
307
00:19:25,539 --> 00:19:28,042
you can put into your bouquet,
or you can put into your hair?
308
00:19:28,626 --> 00:19:31,253
Those are little moments
to carry your loved ones with you,
309
00:19:31,337 --> 00:19:33,673
just as a sweetness to have them there.
310
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,050
[birds chirping]
311
00:19:40,805 --> 00:19:42,139
[Julie] I was a happy kid.
312
00:19:43,849 --> 00:19:45,267
[hopeful music playing]
313
00:19:45,351 --> 00:19:49,146
[Julie] My family lived on three acres
of land with a pond in the back,
314
00:19:49,230 --> 00:19:51,357
and I just got to run wild.
315
00:19:56,195 --> 00:19:59,615
We went to Bible churches,
Baptist churches.
316
00:19:59,699 --> 00:20:02,410
That was the only story
I knew about the world,
317
00:20:03,035 --> 00:20:08,040
the fundamentalist Christian teaching
that said God created the world,
318
00:20:08,124 --> 00:20:10,626
and God is a loving God.
319
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:12,920
And I found a lot of beauty in it, um,
320
00:20:13,003 --> 00:20:14,964
the idea
that God created the fishing pond,
321
00:20:15,047 --> 00:20:17,550
and the stars, and the wind, and all that,
322
00:20:17,633 --> 00:20:22,054
and the idea that Jesus loved us enough
to want to be with us.
323
00:20:23,264 --> 00:20:25,558
So I wanted to be Jesus' friend.
324
00:20:26,058 --> 00:20:27,268
I wanted to be good.
325
00:20:31,814 --> 00:20:35,735
Every single thing in our life
was conservative Christians.
326
00:20:35,818 --> 00:20:39,530
My mom was listening to all
the real conservative Christian leaders
327
00:20:40,156 --> 00:20:44,243
who said there's a secular agenda,
and they're coming for your children.
328
00:20:44,326 --> 00:20:46,370
Can you imagine five-year-olds
329
00:20:46,454 --> 00:20:48,456
with their little hands folded
in their laps
330
00:20:48,539 --> 00:20:50,791
while their teacher talks to them
331
00:20:51,459 --> 00:20:54,754
about adult perverse sexuality?
332
00:20:54,837 --> 00:20:58,632
Homosexuality is moral perversion
and is always wrong,
333
00:20:59,592 --> 00:21:00,509
period.
334
00:21:01,385 --> 00:21:04,221
Every scriptural statement on the subject
335
00:21:04,305 --> 00:21:06,265
is a statement of condemnation.
336
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,935
[Julie] The main messages I heard
about gay people were like,
337
00:21:10,019 --> 00:21:11,145
"They're disgusting."
338
00:21:11,228 --> 00:21:15,107
It was just always this sense of,
"The gays are really, really bad."
339
00:21:15,191 --> 00:21:17,193
"Dirty, and scary, and bad."
340
00:21:19,695 --> 00:21:21,322
[dramatic music playing]
341
00:21:22,573 --> 00:21:24,742
[Julie] I came out
to my mom when I was 16,
342
00:21:25,409 --> 00:21:30,372
and my mom was frantic
that she has a potentially gay kid.
343
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,918
She took me to go meet
with this guy named Ricky Chelette.
344
00:21:36,587 --> 00:21:38,589
I really didn't want to meet him.
345
00:21:38,672 --> 00:21:40,925
It just felt awkward, and weird,
346
00:21:41,008 --> 00:21:43,427
and unlikely to work.
347
00:21:57,316 --> 00:21:58,317
[traffic buzzing]
348
00:21:59,276 --> 00:22:00,361
[car horn honking]
349
00:22:03,531 --> 00:22:06,408
Good morning. I am so honored
to be with you this morning.
350
00:22:06,909 --> 00:22:09,662
[Julie] So we walk in,
and Ricky walks out,
351
00:22:09,745 --> 00:22:12,623
and he's like, "You must be Julie."
And he shakes my hand.
352
00:22:12,706 --> 00:22:14,834
He first asked me
a few introductory questions,
353
00:22:14,917 --> 00:22:16,502
just to try to ease the tension.
354
00:22:16,585 --> 00:22:20,464
[Ricky] I want to talk to you
about grace and truth. Grace and truth.
355
00:22:20,548 --> 00:22:23,342
And I want to particularly talk to you
about grace and truth
356
00:22:23,425 --> 00:22:25,886
because I think
we're in a cultural situation
357
00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:29,265
in which grace and truth is hard to find,
especially truth.
358
00:22:30,182 --> 00:22:32,685
[Julie]
And he has all these dry-erase markers.
359
00:22:33,269 --> 00:22:36,313
He goes through this whole theory
360
00:22:36,397 --> 00:22:38,983
of how people end up struggling
with same-sex attractions.
361
00:22:39,608 --> 00:22:41,068
He draws it all out.
362
00:22:41,151 --> 00:22:43,904
A little mom and a little dad
and a little kid's born,
363
00:22:43,988 --> 00:22:45,906
and then, like,
he's doing all this, and so,
364
00:22:46,615 --> 00:22:49,660
essentially, like, a boy becomes gay
365
00:22:49,743 --> 00:22:52,705
because he has
a bad relationship with his dad,
366
00:22:52,788 --> 00:22:55,541
and there's a sense of mystery
towards the same-sex parent,
367
00:22:55,624 --> 00:22:59,795
and when they get to adolescence,
that becomes sexualized.
368
00:23:01,297 --> 00:23:03,465
I asked him, like,
"What if you have a great relationship
369
00:23:03,549 --> 00:23:06,385
with your same-sex parent, you know,
and you still feel gay?"
370
00:23:06,468 --> 00:23:09,013
And he was like,
"That's where the wild card comes in."
371
00:23:09,096 --> 00:23:10,890
And so he talks about sexual abuse.
372
00:23:12,224 --> 00:23:15,352
"Well, what about people
who haven't been sexually abused?"
373
00:23:15,436 --> 00:23:17,771
And then he's like, "Well,
a lot of times people forget it."
374
00:23:19,273 --> 00:23:21,650
I had no reason to believe it was wrong.
375
00:23:22,192 --> 00:23:25,070
I hadn't heard other theories
of how people end up gay.
376
00:23:25,154 --> 00:23:26,864
And I'm 16, so I'm not like--
377
00:23:26,947 --> 00:23:29,742
I literally know no science
around any of this.
378
00:23:29,825 --> 00:23:33,203
And what he drew out, like,
made sense to me. I was like, "Yeah."
379
00:23:33,287 --> 00:23:35,664
I know where we're going.
We're going toward Jesus.
380
00:23:35,748 --> 00:23:37,416
Do you want to come walk with us
381
00:23:37,541 --> 00:23:40,336
until we're both transformed
to look just like Him?
382
00:23:40,419 --> 00:23:41,879
That's what I hope you'll do.
383
00:23:41,962 --> 00:23:46,717
[Julie] Ricky was a little bit older,
wiser, really good with kids.
384
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,386
It was sort of like having a mentor
385
00:23:49,470 --> 00:23:52,348
that seemed to take interest
in, like, my life.
386
00:23:53,641 --> 00:23:55,976
I still didn't know at that point
if I could become straight.
387
00:23:56,060 --> 00:23:57,019
Like, I didn't know,
388
00:23:57,102 --> 00:24:02,650
but I felt like I could devote myself
to being a whole-hearted believer.
389
00:24:03,317 --> 00:24:05,194
This is the path to be good.
390
00:24:05,277 --> 00:24:06,278
And so,
391
00:24:07,655 --> 00:24:08,572
I took it.
392
00:24:09,531 --> 00:24:10,783
[rain pattering]
393
00:24:19,291 --> 00:24:20,793
[Jeffrey] When I found Jesus,
394
00:24:20,876 --> 00:24:25,798
I found for the first time
someone who really loved me.
395
00:24:26,882 --> 00:24:28,884
From that period forward,
396
00:24:28,968 --> 00:24:32,805
the Lord started putting on my heart,
"You need to start sharing your story."
397
00:24:34,765 --> 00:24:36,183
[ethereal vocal music plays]
398
00:24:45,150 --> 00:24:46,485
[people applauding]
399
00:24:48,570 --> 00:24:50,072
[emcee] How's everybody doing?
400
00:24:50,155 --> 00:24:51,448
-[audience] Good.
-[emcee] Good.
401
00:24:52,366 --> 00:24:55,035
I'm very excited
and humbled to have, um, Jeffrey here.
402
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,830
Y'all are gonna love this brother.
He's amazing.
403
00:24:58,580 --> 00:24:59,873
[speaker] Come on, boy!
404
00:25:00,791 --> 00:25:01,834
Man, I love you. [chuckles]
405
00:25:01,917 --> 00:25:04,253
Can we give our online audience
a welcome, too?
406
00:25:04,336 --> 00:25:05,462
[audience applauding]
407
00:25:09,091 --> 00:25:11,010
I'm trying so hard not to cry.
408
00:25:11,593 --> 00:25:13,512
[speaker]
I'm just thankful for you, Jeffrey.
409
00:25:13,595 --> 00:25:16,890
You are a gift from heaven,
for what God's doing in the Spirit.
410
00:25:16,974 --> 00:25:19,351
That everywhere you plant your feet,
411
00:25:19,852 --> 00:25:22,813
it is a sign
that God is about to release revival
412
00:25:22,896 --> 00:25:24,148
on the gay community.
413
00:25:24,648 --> 00:25:26,442
And I'm just thankful for you.
414
00:25:28,193 --> 00:25:30,237
-[man] Aw…
-[audience applauds]
415
00:25:36,368 --> 00:25:38,203
So Father, I thank you.
416
00:25:38,287 --> 00:25:40,706
That he is a first fruit
of the work you're doing
417
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:41,999
for this generation.
418
00:25:42,624 --> 00:25:45,836
Holy Spirit, I ask
that you would release fire,
419
00:25:45,919 --> 00:25:48,297
anoint his tongue to share your heart,
420
00:25:48,380 --> 00:25:49,840
like only He can.
421
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:53,677
And I ask that you would open ears,
break stereotypes,
422
00:25:53,761 --> 00:25:56,305
break narratives, and reveal Jesus.
423
00:25:56,972 --> 00:25:57,806
Amen.
424
00:25:57,890 --> 00:25:59,391
-[all] Amen.
-[emcee] Love you, brother.
425
00:25:59,475 --> 00:26:00,476
[Jeffrey chuckles]
426
00:26:04,605 --> 00:26:05,564
[sighs]
427
00:26:07,858 --> 00:26:11,737
When I grew up in high school
in the early 2000s,
428
00:26:11,820 --> 00:26:15,157
everything was shifting
in the nation with homosexuality.
429
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,409
Will & Grace was the biggest show.
430
00:26:17,493 --> 00:26:19,620
Every high school movie
had the gay best friend.
431
00:26:19,703 --> 00:26:22,247
And that's what I put my identity in,
being homosexual.
432
00:26:22,331 --> 00:26:24,291
-That was-- That was my identity.
-[man] Wow.
433
00:26:24,374 --> 00:26:27,669
[Jeffrey] And in the LGBTQ community,
that is their identity.
434
00:26:27,753 --> 00:26:30,631
I'm gay. I'm lesbian. I'm transgender.
435
00:26:30,714 --> 00:26:33,133
Why does it have
such a powerful stronghold over them?
436
00:26:33,217 --> 00:26:36,512
Because it's the enemy trying
to make them think that's their identity.
437
00:26:36,595 --> 00:26:38,889
-[woman] Yeah.
-No other group says things like that.
438
00:26:39,765 --> 00:26:44,561
A lot of these schools are pushing that.
They want people to get on hormones
439
00:26:44,645 --> 00:26:47,022
or start having the surgeries
and chopping up their body.
440
00:26:47,106 --> 00:26:50,901
And so, you need to be very careful
where you send your children to school.
441
00:26:50,984 --> 00:26:51,902
[man] That's true.
442
00:26:51,985 --> 00:26:53,195
You need to find somewhere
443
00:26:53,278 --> 00:26:56,031
they won't be counseling people
to chop up their body.
444
00:26:56,115 --> 00:26:57,407
-[woman] Yes.
-[man] Yeah.
445
00:27:07,292 --> 00:27:10,629
[Yvette] When I got into the church,
I just followed the rules.
446
00:27:11,421 --> 00:27:12,631
This is what you do.
447
00:27:12,714 --> 00:27:15,592
You read the Bible,
and you believe what the Bible says.
448
00:27:17,886 --> 00:27:21,014
And then, it became a matter of,
449
00:27:21,098 --> 00:27:23,433
well, the leaders are the special ones.
450
00:27:23,976 --> 00:27:27,896
I have to perform
in order to be in this special group.
451
00:27:27,980 --> 00:27:31,733
I have to perform
in order to be recognized
452
00:27:31,817 --> 00:27:34,903
and affirmed the way that I want to be.
453
00:27:38,490 --> 00:27:39,700
In the early days,
454
00:27:39,783 --> 00:27:43,871
I spoke at a fundraising meeting
in Laguna Hills.
455
00:27:45,122 --> 00:27:47,749
[hostess] I very much wanted
to have Yvette speak…
456
00:27:47,833 --> 00:27:51,545
[Yvette] The house was packed,
which made me really nervous.
457
00:27:52,254 --> 00:27:54,923
And I had prepared
for a long time for this
458
00:27:55,007 --> 00:27:57,259
'cause I wanted it to be perfect.
459
00:27:57,342 --> 00:27:59,928
[hostess] She is very articulate
460
00:28:00,012 --> 00:28:03,849
on speaking
on the homosexual political agenda.
461
00:28:03,932 --> 00:28:07,561
And that is why we asked,
let's videotape it
462
00:28:07,644 --> 00:28:10,772
to possibly enable you to have a position
463
00:28:10,856 --> 00:28:14,943
as a national spokesperson
on this, uh, subject.
464
00:28:15,027 --> 00:28:16,445
So that's why Yvette's here.
465
00:28:17,154 --> 00:28:18,989
What's happening in the political level,
466
00:28:19,072 --> 00:28:21,992
they're trying to give
homosexuals special rights.
467
00:28:22,075 --> 00:28:23,785
We're not talking equal rights, here.
468
00:28:23,869 --> 00:28:27,331
We're talking special rights,
giving them special minority status.
469
00:28:27,414 --> 00:28:30,584
This is such a huge issue right now
470
00:28:30,667 --> 00:28:34,213
that there's really no excuse
for not getting involved. And it could…
471
00:28:34,296 --> 00:28:37,174
[Yvette] You could hear a pin drop.
People were riveted.
472
00:28:38,050 --> 00:28:40,385
And then we did a Q and A afterwards
473
00:28:40,469 --> 00:28:45,807
so people could ask whatever they wanted
and also see that I knew the topic well.
474
00:28:47,017 --> 00:28:50,812
Well, thank you all for coming.
I wasn't expecting this many people.
475
00:28:50,896 --> 00:28:52,356
[audience applauding]
476
00:28:53,106 --> 00:28:56,235
[Yvette] And afterwards,
a woman sitting in the front row
477
00:28:56,318 --> 00:28:59,696
asked me if I'd be willing
to relocate to Washington, D.C.
478
00:29:00,322 --> 00:29:01,698
[suspenseful music playing]
479
00:29:04,243 --> 00:29:08,247
[Yvette] So I get a phone call that said,
"Can you come for an interview
480
00:29:08,330 --> 00:29:10,290
at Family Research Council?"
481
00:29:11,166 --> 00:29:17,214
Family Research Council is one of the most
prominent Christian-right organizations
482
00:29:17,297 --> 00:29:18,215
in the country.
483
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:21,218
They have a lot of political power.
484
00:29:22,469 --> 00:29:25,264
[anchorman] FRC's experts are well-known
by the media
485
00:29:25,347 --> 00:29:27,182
for their cutting-edge analysis
486
00:29:27,266 --> 00:29:29,601
and quick response
to breaking news stories.
487
00:29:29,685 --> 00:29:34,481
Voicing your values
to defend family, faith, and freedom.
488
00:29:35,524 --> 00:29:40,028
[Yvette] The leadership there
were all straight, white men.
489
00:29:40,737 --> 00:29:43,657
They were looking for a spokesperson
490
00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:45,200
who had been gay.
491
00:29:45,284 --> 00:29:49,454
And I was told, "You're gonna be great
because you're young,
492
00:29:49,538 --> 00:29:51,456
you have a Hispanic last name,
493
00:29:52,624 --> 00:29:54,042
and you don't look gay."
494
00:30:04,177 --> 00:30:05,679
This is my business card.
495
00:30:06,305 --> 00:30:11,184
Probably the only one I have left,
when I was Yvette Cantu, Policy Analyst.
496
00:30:11,268 --> 00:30:12,185
[card thuds]
497
00:30:14,271 --> 00:30:18,275
This was a press conference that we did,
498
00:30:18,358 --> 00:30:23,530
and I had only been at FRC
for maybe two weeks, less than two weeks.
499
00:30:23,613 --> 00:30:25,991
We're gonna take you now
to the National Press Club.
500
00:30:26,074 --> 00:30:27,784
We have a camera this morning
501
00:30:27,868 --> 00:30:31,246
at a news conference
to be held by the Family Research Council.
502
00:30:31,913 --> 00:30:34,750
Today, we're here to talk about
what some major world religions
503
00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:36,543
have to say about homosexuality.
504
00:30:37,294 --> 00:30:41,590
[Yvette] The conservative Christian lobby
always needs something
505
00:30:41,673 --> 00:30:45,052
they can really get
their constituents riled up about
506
00:30:46,303 --> 00:30:47,846
and willing to give money
507
00:30:48,347 --> 00:30:49,556
and willing to vote.
508
00:30:50,557 --> 00:30:53,810
What can really get people riled up?
509
00:30:53,894 --> 00:30:55,062
Homosexuality.
510
00:30:55,812 --> 00:30:57,064
[cheering]
511
00:30:59,024 --> 00:31:03,362
[Yvette] The general feeling was
that gay rights were inevitable.
512
00:31:05,238 --> 00:31:10,327
We looked at it like, this is going
to destroy the family as we know it.
513
00:31:11,078 --> 00:31:13,914
And that it would erode
the rights of Christians.
514
00:31:15,165 --> 00:31:17,084
What I do at Family Research Council
515
00:31:17,167 --> 00:31:19,961
is opposing
an aggressive homosexual agenda,
516
00:31:20,045 --> 00:31:21,922
which is trying to destroy marriage,
517
00:31:22,005 --> 00:31:24,216
which is trying
to bring about gay adoption.
518
00:31:24,299 --> 00:31:27,344
A child needs a mother and a father.
519
00:31:27,427 --> 00:31:28,678
Let me just interject one thing.
520
00:31:28,762 --> 00:31:32,557
I just feel I need to say something
about my opponent's organization.
521
00:31:32,641 --> 00:31:37,187
It doesn't matter if it's gay families,
civil rights, employment, housing.
522
00:31:37,270 --> 00:31:40,232
They have a fundamental anti-gay agenda.
523
00:31:40,315 --> 00:31:44,069
I, I personally came out
of the homosexual lifestyle
524
00:31:44,152 --> 00:31:45,695
that I was in for six years.
525
00:31:45,779 --> 00:31:50,075
I have 15 dead gay male friends
who have died of AIDS.
526
00:31:50,158 --> 00:31:52,160
My point in all this is to show
527
00:31:52,244 --> 00:31:54,621
that it is a dangerous,
destructive lifestyle,
528
00:31:54,704 --> 00:31:56,665
and people can leave it.
529
00:32:10,637 --> 00:32:13,432
I don't want to get rid of these
because I want to remember.
530
00:32:13,515 --> 00:32:16,268
I don't want to forget.
Like, this is part of my life.
531
00:32:16,351 --> 00:32:17,769
This is part of what I did,
532
00:32:19,688 --> 00:32:21,398
but it's hard to look back.
533
00:32:23,024 --> 00:32:25,819
[sighs deeply, huffs]
534
00:32:30,323 --> 00:32:31,700
[traffic buzzing softly]
535
00:32:43,170 --> 00:32:45,630
[Julie]
I started at Living Hope when I was 16,
536
00:32:45,714 --> 00:32:49,718
and I didn't move away
from Living Hope till I was 25.
537
00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:54,473
I was doing
a weekly counseling session with Ricky,
538
00:32:55,098 --> 00:32:57,767
a weekly Living Hope meeting,
we just called it "group,"
539
00:32:57,851 --> 00:33:01,146
and then I would usually have lunch
at Ricky's house on Sunday afternoon.
540
00:33:01,229 --> 00:33:04,900
So, like, more days than not,
I was at Living Hope stuff.
541
00:33:06,485 --> 00:33:09,863
My whole entire life was structured
around not being gay.
542
00:33:22,292 --> 00:33:25,837
There was a high population
of youth who were at Living Hope.
543
00:33:26,379 --> 00:33:29,633
It was at least 50 people
that were cycling through.
544
00:33:31,885 --> 00:33:32,802
[somber music playing]
545
00:33:32,886 --> 00:33:35,514
We weren't allowed to have
outside contact with each other.
546
00:33:35,597 --> 00:33:37,933
So we weren't allowed
to be friends on Facebook
547
00:33:38,016 --> 00:33:40,101
or to know each other's last names.
548
00:33:40,936 --> 00:33:44,356
The reason that we couldn't share
any identifying information
549
00:33:44,439 --> 00:33:45,774
was because they were worried
550
00:33:45,857 --> 00:33:47,901
we would all meet up
and have sex with each other.
551
00:33:48,693 --> 00:33:51,780
We were only allowed to talk
when we were, like, supervised.
552
00:33:53,198 --> 00:33:54,824
[railroad crossing bell dinging]
553
00:33:56,159 --> 00:33:57,369
[Julie] Ricky would say
554
00:33:57,452 --> 00:34:00,664
a big part of it's gonna be,
like, your spiritual walk,
555
00:34:01,331 --> 00:34:03,833
spending time reading the Bible,
and praying,
556
00:34:03,917 --> 00:34:07,254
and, um, giving up masturbation.
Masturbation was a big deal.
557
00:34:07,337 --> 00:34:09,589
Giving up masturbation,
definitely giving up porn.
558
00:34:12,759 --> 00:34:15,929
It was decided between my mom and Ricky
559
00:34:16,012 --> 00:34:18,557
that I was gonna quit softball
so I wouldn't become gay,
560
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,601
and I had to go to a Christian college
so I wouldn't become a lesbian.
561
00:34:22,394 --> 00:34:23,395
If you were to say, like,
562
00:34:23,478 --> 00:34:26,189
"What does Julie need to do
to become straight?"
563
00:34:26,273 --> 00:34:27,357
It was a lot.
564
00:34:32,737 --> 00:34:35,198
-[indistinct chattering]
-[dramatic music playing]
565
00:34:51,006 --> 00:34:53,508
[Randy] One of the things
that Exodus International was known for
566
00:34:53,592 --> 00:34:55,552
was our annual conference,
567
00:34:56,386 --> 00:35:00,223
where people could go and learn more
568
00:35:00,307 --> 00:35:04,769
about the whole journey
of overcoming same-sex attractions
569
00:35:05,604 --> 00:35:09,858
and to have fellowship with other people
who believed similarly.
570
00:35:11,860 --> 00:35:14,112
We would have lots of workshops,
571
00:35:14,195 --> 00:35:17,449
and they would range in topics
from family dynamics,
572
00:35:17,532 --> 00:35:21,202
to helping men embrace their masculinity,
573
00:35:21,286 --> 00:35:24,664
or women to rejoice in their femininity.
574
00:35:24,748 --> 00:35:28,543
[speaker] …focus on 33, which talks about,
"Seek ye first the Kingdom of God."
575
00:35:28,627 --> 00:35:32,130
A mistake they make is they start thinking
about the rest of their lives.
576
00:35:32,213 --> 00:35:35,050
They're drawn into lesbianism
probably because
577
00:35:35,133 --> 00:35:38,845
she wants to protect
against further hurt from a man.
578
00:35:38,928 --> 00:35:39,929
She needs a lot of healing
579
00:35:40,013 --> 00:35:42,474
before she could ever
be open to a relationship with a man.
580
00:35:42,557 --> 00:35:43,808
[indistinct chattering]
581
00:35:43,892 --> 00:35:45,560
[Julie] I went
to my first Exodus conference
582
00:35:45,644 --> 00:35:47,228
when I was 17 years old.
583
00:35:48,396 --> 00:35:52,108
Ricky took a big group of people
from Living Hope every single year.
584
00:35:53,276 --> 00:35:57,197
It was the first time I met
a bunch of really, really cool people
585
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,783
who were devoted to this process.
586
00:36:03,828 --> 00:36:06,081
I was supposed to, like,
embrace my femininity.
587
00:36:06,873 --> 00:36:08,667
They taught us to wear makeup,
588
00:36:09,167 --> 00:36:11,002
and the guys would go play football.
589
00:36:11,086 --> 00:36:12,587
[spectators whooping, applauding]
590
00:36:12,671 --> 00:36:13,922
[Julie] They would say,
591
00:36:14,005 --> 00:36:16,591
"It's not that we think
football's gonna make you straight,
592
00:36:16,675 --> 00:36:19,302
but it will give you another way
of connecting with the guys."
593
00:36:19,386 --> 00:36:22,263
"And makeup's gonna give you
another way of connecting with the girls
594
00:36:22,347 --> 00:36:23,390
and your femininity."
595
00:36:23,473 --> 00:36:29,312
That is a part of shifting things in here
that's gonna shift your attractions.
596
00:36:29,396 --> 00:36:33,149
[speaker] Hopefully you are beginning
to see some of the root causes
597
00:36:33,233 --> 00:36:36,069
that can affect your sexuality
and your identity, and…
598
00:36:36,152 --> 00:36:40,198
[Julie] You're still doing Bible studies
and small groups and learning things.
599
00:36:40,281 --> 00:36:42,492
But you also stay up
till two in the morning,
600
00:36:42,575 --> 00:36:44,536
talking, and laughing, and telling jokes.
601
00:36:44,619 --> 00:36:47,789
I remember especially the late-night times
when all the leaders were in bed,
602
00:36:47,872 --> 00:36:50,625
and we just got to be
our little queer selves, and it was,
603
00:36:50,709 --> 00:36:54,671
in many ways, like,
one of the few safe places
604
00:36:55,380 --> 00:36:58,174
in our lives,
and I know that sounds really crazy
605
00:36:58,258 --> 00:37:00,760
'cause it was
an Exodus International conference,
606
00:37:00,844 --> 00:37:06,182
but at that time, that was
what belonging looked like for us.
607
00:37:06,266 --> 00:37:09,394
A lot of times, people that struggle
with this always feel so alone,
608
00:37:09,477 --> 00:37:11,604
struggle with same-sex attraction,
always feel so alone.
609
00:37:11,688 --> 00:37:13,857
It's great to see others
who've been in the same shoes.
610
00:37:13,940 --> 00:37:16,609
[interviewer] And what do you hope
to come out of this week?
611
00:37:17,318 --> 00:37:19,487
A stronger person, um,
612
00:37:19,571 --> 00:37:22,699
more knowledgeable
in areas I still don't really get,
613
00:37:22,782 --> 00:37:26,411
and I might never get,
but, um, just to have more courage
614
00:37:26,494 --> 00:37:27,829
to stand up and stuff.
615
00:37:28,705 --> 00:37:30,123
[dramatic music playing]
616
00:37:31,499 --> 00:37:32,459
[Randy] Is this on?
617
00:37:33,585 --> 00:37:37,046
I wanna invite the prayer team up.
Come on up, guys.
618
00:37:38,465 --> 00:37:40,341
A lot of you may be feeling pressure.
619
00:37:41,259 --> 00:37:43,428
You may be feeling
like you're in darkness.
620
00:37:44,512 --> 00:37:48,099
But you sense
that there is a hand reaching towards you.
621
00:37:48,725 --> 00:37:52,771
And you want that hand to grasp you,
the hand of the Lord, to pull you out,
622
00:37:52,854 --> 00:37:56,399
to reveal the splendor
of what He's created you to be.
623
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,321
Brothers and sisters,
in Jesus' name, step forward,
624
00:38:01,404 --> 00:38:04,115
take your rightful place
in the body of Christ.
625
00:38:05,033 --> 00:38:09,329
Come forward and receive prayer.
Come forward and make your declaration,
626
00:38:09,412 --> 00:38:12,457
that I will not go back to the darkness.
627
00:38:15,168 --> 00:38:18,004
[Julie] There were several speakers
throughout that week,
628
00:38:18,546 --> 00:38:20,548
big ex-gay names.
629
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,637
And they told these stories
of this big conversion to Jesus,
630
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:28,556
and realizing God loved them,
realizing they "didn't have to be gay,"
631
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,974
was how they would frame it.
632
00:38:30,475 --> 00:38:33,228
There were really compelling stories.
633
00:38:34,020 --> 00:38:37,023
And so I remember feeling like,
634
00:38:37,106 --> 00:38:39,651
I wanna be like them. Like, I wanna be
635
00:38:39,734 --> 00:38:42,654
cool, and happy, and loved by God.
636
00:38:42,737 --> 00:38:44,155
[soft piano music playing]
637
00:38:48,201 --> 00:38:49,285
[music stops]
638
00:38:50,411 --> 00:38:53,623
[ad narrator] You may have seen John
and Anne Paulk on the cover of Newsweek.
639
00:38:53,706 --> 00:38:56,918
Both former homosexuals,
now married to each other.
640
00:38:57,001 --> 00:38:58,962
But are there others like them?
641
00:38:59,045 --> 00:39:01,589
I was active in the gay community
for 13 years.
642
00:39:01,673 --> 00:39:03,007
I was in it for six years,
643
00:39:03,091 --> 00:39:05,885
then struggled for five years
before finding true freedom.
644
00:39:05,969 --> 00:39:07,345
It was 13 years for me.
645
00:39:07,428 --> 00:39:09,430
Four for me,
but we both walked away from it.
646
00:39:10,014 --> 00:39:14,477
[John] The whole Christian church
is based on being married,
647
00:39:14,561 --> 00:39:15,937
being a family man,
648
00:39:16,020 --> 00:39:17,272
and having children.
649
00:39:18,231 --> 00:39:22,235
I had a goal when I went to Exodus,
650
00:39:22,318 --> 00:39:25,446
was to get married and be a father.
651
00:39:25,530 --> 00:39:28,491
That wasn't just something
I hoped someday would happen.
652
00:39:28,575 --> 00:39:31,661
It was a goal I pursued with a vengeance.
653
00:39:31,744 --> 00:39:34,038
Now, how do you two get together?
654
00:39:34,122 --> 00:39:36,165
[chuckles] We were not friends at first,
655
00:39:36,249 --> 00:39:40,461
because we were still in the middle
of our own gender identity confusion.
656
00:39:40,545 --> 00:39:42,547
But slowly we became friends,
657
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:44,883
and based out of a friendship,
we fell in love.
658
00:39:44,966 --> 00:39:47,260
I accepted Jesus as my savior
659
00:39:47,343 --> 00:39:50,305
and, uh,
and then read what the Bible had to say.
660
00:39:50,388 --> 00:39:52,765
At that point,
things started to change in my life.
661
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:57,228
[John] We were taught,
"You'll become friends with a woman,
662
00:39:57,770 --> 00:39:59,355
you will feel safe with her,
663
00:39:59,439 --> 00:40:03,860
and hopefully a sexual attraction
will grow on top of that."
664
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,363
They would say, "You don't have
to be attracted to all women."
665
00:40:07,447 --> 00:40:09,198
"You only have to be attracted to one."
666
00:40:09,282 --> 00:40:12,368
"Just one, 'cause that's
the one you'll fall in love with,
667
00:40:12,452 --> 00:40:14,370
and that's the one you're going to marry."
668
00:40:14,454 --> 00:40:15,663
"Just one."
669
00:40:18,458 --> 00:40:20,126
[partner] How do you undo the end?
670
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:23,046
Okay, so, you gotta do it
with a different knife.
671
00:40:24,464 --> 00:40:26,007
You're using a big knife.
672
00:40:26,507 --> 00:40:29,886
Use a small one and just make a little V.
673
00:40:29,969 --> 00:40:31,262
[knife clatters]
674
00:40:31,346 --> 00:40:32,847
That takes it out. Okay?
675
00:40:32,931 --> 00:40:33,765
[bangs loudly]
676
00:40:33,848 --> 00:40:34,933
Sorry, baby.
677
00:40:35,016 --> 00:40:36,601
-[partner] That's kind of cool.
-I know.
678
00:40:37,101 --> 00:40:40,396
See, I'm gonna teach you
about how to do some of this fancy stuff.
679
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:41,856
[knife chopping, scraping]
680
00:40:43,816 --> 00:40:44,859
[rake scraping]
681
00:40:46,694 --> 00:40:48,363
[John] So here we were.
682
00:40:48,446 --> 00:40:51,366
My wife wore
these beautiful Talbots suits,
683
00:40:51,449 --> 00:40:52,742
and wore makeup,
684
00:40:53,242 --> 00:40:54,661
and looked very elegant.
685
00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:59,374
And we had children,
and the children were on TV with us.
686
00:41:00,375 --> 00:41:05,088
In some ways, I didn't see myself
as a gay person anymore.
687
00:41:05,171 --> 00:41:08,841
Because to me, to be gay
would mean I was having sex,
688
00:41:08,925 --> 00:41:12,053
I was going to gay bars,
I associated with gay people.
689
00:41:13,179 --> 00:41:15,598
I based being gay on behavior.
690
00:41:16,099 --> 00:41:19,769
It was the behavior that made you gay,
not your feelings.
691
00:41:20,645 --> 00:41:23,147
But my feelings were very much gay.
692
00:41:24,148 --> 00:41:26,985
I've had a successful marriage
for ten years,
693
00:41:27,068 --> 00:41:31,155
have a very fulfilling emotional
and sexual relationship with my wife,
694
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,367
have fathered two sons,
so something has changed.
695
00:41:34,450 --> 00:41:35,952
[audience laughing]
696
00:41:36,035 --> 00:41:37,787
[John narrating] If I had said,
697
00:41:37,870 --> 00:41:40,832
"Well, of course I'm tempted
by homosexuality,"
698
00:41:41,332 --> 00:41:43,334
that would have been honest.
699
00:41:44,002 --> 00:41:47,255
However,
I didn't feel like I could be honest,
700
00:41:47,922 --> 00:41:50,591
because I'm not just sitting here
representing myself.
701
00:41:50,675 --> 00:41:53,052
I am representing a whole movement.
702
00:41:53,636 --> 00:41:56,556
And if I say,
"Well, I'm still tempted by it,"
703
00:41:56,639 --> 00:41:58,141
what does that say to someone?
704
00:41:58,224 --> 00:42:00,560
[director]
Do you feel like you were lying?
705
00:42:00,643 --> 00:42:01,644
I did lie.
706
00:42:02,228 --> 00:42:06,107
I-- See, I can say that now with no--
w-with-- with…
707
00:42:06,190 --> 00:42:08,026
Well, with shame and embarrassment.
708
00:42:08,109 --> 00:42:10,153
My mother came
from a very domineering home…
709
00:42:10,236 --> 00:42:14,198
[John narrating] I realized
that my dishonesty hurt people.
710
00:42:15,408 --> 00:42:19,287
Because I was dishonest,
it caused people in the audience,
711
00:42:19,871 --> 00:42:23,291
people that were struggling
with homosexuality or had gay feelings,
712
00:42:23,374 --> 00:42:26,544
to feel like,
"There must be something wrong with me
713
00:42:26,627 --> 00:42:28,129
'cause I'm not like him."
714
00:42:29,047 --> 00:42:32,300
And, "He doesn't--
He's not tempted anymore."
715
00:42:32,967 --> 00:42:37,221
"So if I'm tempted,
I must be broken and damaged."
716
00:42:38,056 --> 00:42:39,640
[audience applauding]
717
00:42:42,935 --> 00:42:44,437
[applause fading]
718
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:47,231
[dog barking]
719
00:42:56,824 --> 00:42:58,659
[Jeffrey] My story's just one of many.
720
00:42:58,743 --> 00:43:00,953
So I wanted people
that have similar stories to mine
721
00:43:01,037 --> 00:43:01,954
to be able to share.
722
00:43:02,038 --> 00:43:04,832
That's what the Freedom March gave them,
a platform to share.
723
00:43:04,916 --> 00:43:08,753
Because mainstream media
doesn't share our types of stories.
724
00:43:10,213 --> 00:43:13,341
That's why I started Freedom March,
is to give them a voice.
725
00:43:15,176 --> 00:43:17,762
This has only been going for six months.
726
00:43:18,262 --> 00:43:21,974
That says 3,924 follows,
727
00:43:22,058 --> 00:43:24,435
about 1,000 more than I even thought.
[chuckles]
728
00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:26,187
There's just so many.
729
00:43:27,688 --> 00:43:28,898
[cell phone ringing]
730
00:43:30,817 --> 00:43:31,651
[Jeffrey] Hello?
731
00:43:31,734 --> 00:43:33,569
[female voice] Oh, hi, Jeffrey!
732
00:43:33,653 --> 00:43:36,072
I stumbled across your Facebook.
733
00:43:36,155 --> 00:43:39,575
I started following your pages
'cause it was just so hopeful to me
734
00:43:39,659 --> 00:43:42,328
to hear about your story
and what happened to you.
735
00:43:42,411 --> 00:43:45,331
[quivering] And what I hope happens
to my son, you know?
736
00:43:45,414 --> 00:43:48,543
Wanna go ahead and tell me
a little bit of what's been going on?
737
00:43:48,626 --> 00:43:50,920
So we have a 20-year-old son.
738
00:43:51,003 --> 00:43:53,881
He said, "I'm a transgender girl."
739
00:43:53,965 --> 00:43:56,592
And I looked at him, and I said,
740
00:43:57,385 --> 00:43:58,386
"You're a boy."
741
00:43:59,053 --> 00:44:02,306
And he's been gone
for about six months now.
742
00:44:02,974 --> 00:44:05,101
And it's been really hard.
743
00:44:05,685 --> 00:44:07,019
I miss him so much.
744
00:44:08,396 --> 00:44:13,317
But he thinks that I'm rejecting him
because I won't call him my daughter.
745
00:44:14,110 --> 00:44:15,403
How can I agree with that
746
00:44:15,486 --> 00:44:18,281
when, in my conscience,
I believe that's a lie?
747
00:44:19,448 --> 00:44:21,951
Well, I think he knows you love him.
748
00:44:22,451 --> 00:44:24,203
-He just wants you…
-Yeah, he does.
749
00:44:24,287 --> 00:44:26,706
He wants you to do it
the way he wants you to do it. [chuckles]
750
00:44:26,789 --> 00:44:29,292
-Exactly! Exactly.
-And… And sometimes…
751
00:44:29,792 --> 00:44:30,877
If someone is--
752
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,337
If a child is going out on the road,
753
00:44:33,421 --> 00:44:36,674
a parent's not going to let
a semi-truck come and hit them.
754
00:44:36,757 --> 00:44:39,927
If they have to yank them up,
if they have to go grab them,
755
00:44:40,011 --> 00:44:43,973
they're gonna get them out of the road.
And that's how-- what you're trying to do.
756
00:44:44,056 --> 00:44:47,476
That's right. That's confirmation to me.
I appreciate that.
757
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,938
[Jeffrey] It's a strong spirit that wants
to force you to call him a woman,
758
00:44:51,022 --> 00:44:53,399
and he's not. It wants you to bow down,
759
00:44:53,482 --> 00:44:56,444
and you're gonna say yes,
and you have to agree with what it says.
760
00:44:56,527 --> 00:44:59,197
-Don't do that.
-That's what it feels like. Exactly.
761
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,616
I do believe, um,
762
00:45:01,699 --> 00:45:04,368
that you have to stand in faith with this.
763
00:45:04,452 --> 00:45:05,578
Okay.
764
00:45:08,414 --> 00:45:09,665
[silence]
765
00:45:17,256 --> 00:45:19,926
[Julie] I've been working on a book
for the last year,
766
00:45:20,009 --> 00:45:23,596
trying to make sense of my experience
767
00:45:24,305 --> 00:45:27,516
and writing everything that happened.
768
00:45:29,685 --> 00:45:30,770
[train horn blaring]
769
00:45:37,526 --> 00:45:42,240
[Julie] When I was in Living Hope,
every week we would meet in Ricky's office
770
00:45:42,740 --> 00:45:48,537
to talk about all this deep,
intense sexual, emotional baggage
771
00:45:48,621 --> 00:45:51,499
in this one private counseling setting.
772
00:45:56,796 --> 00:45:59,715
It was kind of like
a normal therapy appointment in many ways
773
00:45:59,799 --> 00:46:01,926
where you sit down
and talk about your week
774
00:46:02,009 --> 00:46:04,178
and what's going on,
and then you start getting deeper
775
00:46:04,262 --> 00:46:06,889
into the stuff
that's really bothering you.
776
00:46:08,224 --> 00:46:10,726
But there was
a little more of a confessional element.
777
00:46:12,979 --> 00:46:15,106
I felt like I had
to tell Ricky everything,
778
00:46:15,731 --> 00:46:19,443
every sexual attraction,
or feeling, or crush that I might have.
779
00:46:20,486 --> 00:46:24,365
I felt the need to report
if I had a lesbian boss,
780
00:46:24,448 --> 00:46:28,452
or lesbian customers that came in
at the restaurant where I worked.
781
00:46:29,829 --> 00:46:33,791
Let's say I had, like,
acted out sexually with somebody else.
782
00:46:33,874 --> 00:46:36,168
I would've definitely needed
to have confessed that
783
00:46:36,252 --> 00:46:38,838
and told all the circumstances around it,
784
00:46:38,921 --> 00:46:41,257
when we first started talking,
when we texted,
785
00:46:41,340 --> 00:46:44,176
when we decided we were gonna
do something, when we met up,
786
00:46:44,260 --> 00:46:45,970
why I hadn't cut off contact,
787
00:46:46,053 --> 00:46:48,889
what was going on in my life
outside of it that made me turn to that.
788
00:46:48,973 --> 00:46:50,266
[crow caws]
789
00:46:50,975 --> 00:46:53,144
[Julie] Everything where I felt like
I was falling short
790
00:46:53,227 --> 00:46:54,812
of what I was supposed to be,
791
00:46:54,895 --> 00:46:58,065
I felt like I had to confess that
and work through it.
792
00:47:05,406 --> 00:47:07,408
I'll go back and read old journal entries,
793
00:47:07,491 --> 00:47:11,412
and it's all, "God forgive me
for having such evil flesh."
794
00:47:11,495 --> 00:47:15,916
"And the only hope for me
is that God would save me from myself."
795
00:47:17,835 --> 00:47:21,255
I was a teenager,
and I was a really good teenager.
796
00:47:21,756 --> 00:47:23,424
I just thought I was so bad.
797
00:47:31,515 --> 00:47:32,933
[indistinct voice speaking]
798
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:40,399
-[gong echoes]
-[audience applauding]
799
00:47:42,860 --> 00:47:47,406
[moderator] It's my great privilege
and honor to introduce our next speaker.
800
00:47:48,032 --> 00:47:49,950
He's a psychologist.
801
00:47:50,034 --> 00:47:54,705
He is really like a maverick
in the mental health community.
802
00:47:54,789 --> 00:47:55,623
He's a renegade.
803
00:47:55,706 --> 00:47:59,126
Because the mental health community
believes that to receive help
804
00:47:59,210 --> 00:48:03,130
for unwanted same-sex attractions,
that should not be allowed.
805
00:48:03,214 --> 00:48:05,049
And he doesn't care what they say.
806
00:48:05,132 --> 00:48:07,718
He's been treating men
for unwanted same-sex attractions
807
00:48:07,802 --> 00:48:08,969
for 30 years.
808
00:48:09,053 --> 00:48:10,304
[audience applauding]
809
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,309
I remember years ago
when I first started this work,
810
00:48:15,810 --> 00:48:19,230
um, the guy with the homosexual problem
would come in,
811
00:48:19,313 --> 00:48:22,191
and they begin to see
that the homosexual image
812
00:48:22,274 --> 00:48:26,529
is really a defense
against that inner core emptiness.
813
00:48:27,154 --> 00:48:29,698
[Michael] People may wrongly assume
that the whole ex-gay movement
814
00:48:29,782 --> 00:48:31,575
is strictly a religious thing,
815
00:48:31,659 --> 00:48:34,662
but alongside the formation of Exodus
816
00:48:34,745 --> 00:48:37,706
were this group
of psychologists and therapists
817
00:48:37,790 --> 00:48:39,333
who had made their livings
818
00:48:39,417 --> 00:48:41,585
and their careers
trying to cure gay people.
819
00:48:41,669 --> 00:48:43,254
It's because things happen to you…
820
00:48:43,337 --> 00:48:46,507
[Michael] It was awful pseudo-psychology.
821
00:48:46,590 --> 00:48:49,343
What they were saying was not based
on any good science,
822
00:48:50,136 --> 00:48:54,140
but Exodus was looking
for some sort of respectability.
823
00:48:54,223 --> 00:48:56,475
"It's not just us who believe this."
824
00:48:56,559 --> 00:48:59,645
"It's actual therapists
and psychiatrists who also know
825
00:48:59,728 --> 00:49:01,272
that what we're saying is true."
826
00:49:01,355 --> 00:49:05,526
[anchorwoman] Dr. Joseph Nicolosi is part
of an organization of 500 therapists
827
00:49:05,609 --> 00:49:08,487
working with gays
who want to lead straight lives.
828
00:49:09,363 --> 00:49:12,116
[Randy] There was
a symbiotic relationship between
829
00:49:12,199 --> 00:49:14,160
our need for credibility,
830
00:49:14,785 --> 00:49:18,289
and then of course,
the therapists who get clients.
831
00:49:18,372 --> 00:49:19,540
[indistinct chattering]
832
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:21,792
[Randy] Our networks were infused
833
00:49:21,876 --> 00:49:24,462
with their books,
834
00:49:24,545 --> 00:49:27,965
with their teachings,
with their therapeutic approach.
835
00:49:30,843 --> 00:49:33,471
This sounds awful, but it was a mutually…
836
00:49:33,554 --> 00:49:36,640
It was a mutually beneficial
business arrangement.
837
00:49:39,059 --> 00:49:41,437
[sniffles, sobbing]
838
00:49:43,856 --> 00:49:45,733
[Nicolosi]
You're holding back. Talk to me.
839
00:49:45,816 --> 00:49:47,193
I want to know what you're feeling.
840
00:49:48,569 --> 00:49:49,570
[sniffles]
841
00:49:50,446 --> 00:49:51,447
[sighs]
842
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,326
I'm just thinking
about this person that's so broken.
843
00:49:56,035 --> 00:49:56,952
[sniffs]
844
00:49:58,704 --> 00:49:59,955
-[exhales]
-Yourself?
845
00:50:00,039 --> 00:50:01,665
-Myself.
-So broken?
846
00:50:02,625 --> 00:50:03,626
You feel broken?
847
00:50:04,251 --> 00:50:05,252
[whispers] Yeah.
848
00:50:06,045 --> 00:50:07,171
How does it feel,
849
00:50:08,088 --> 00:50:10,925
feeling broken sitting right here
in front of me?
850
00:50:11,008 --> 00:50:14,345
I'm looking at you. How does it feel
to be broken as I look at you?
851
00:50:14,428 --> 00:50:15,429
[sniffling]
852
00:50:18,933 --> 00:50:19,934
Hurtful?
853
00:50:21,352 --> 00:50:22,520
Very sad?
854
00:50:22,603 --> 00:50:24,355
Very sad to feel broken.
855
00:50:25,439 --> 00:50:27,775
-Very sad to feel broken.
-[sniffs]
856
00:50:29,026 --> 00:50:31,737
Can you feel
my acceptance of you as broken?
857
00:50:31,820 --> 00:50:35,282
-[sniffs]
-What's that feel like?
858
00:50:35,991 --> 00:50:36,992
[sighs] Feels good.
859
00:50:37,576 --> 00:50:38,744
That feels good.
860
00:50:39,537 --> 00:50:42,206
I just wish I wasn't here at this time.
861
00:50:42,289 --> 00:50:44,583
I mean, I wish I wasn't here
in my mind right now.
862
00:50:44,667 --> 00:50:46,377
-Of course.
-Huh.
863
00:50:48,003 --> 00:50:49,213
[exhales]
864
00:50:49,296 --> 00:50:52,550
[crying] I feel like--
I just feel like a bad person.
865
00:50:53,509 --> 00:50:54,593
I feel like…
866
00:50:54,677 --> 00:50:56,595
-[sobbing]
-Mm-hmm.
867
00:51:02,643 --> 00:51:06,480
This man,
what brought him into therapy was,
868
00:51:06,564 --> 00:51:10,234
he was acting out with men
while he was married.
869
00:51:10,317 --> 00:51:11,610
Since that time,
870
00:51:11,694 --> 00:51:16,031
they have done very, very well,
and he has not acted out in a year
871
00:51:16,115 --> 00:51:19,952
and-- and tells me
he has no desire to act out,
872
00:51:20,035 --> 00:51:21,161
homosexually.
873
00:51:24,248 --> 00:51:27,418
[all] Lord God,
in the light of your glory,
874
00:51:27,501 --> 00:51:31,755
we see the wrong we have done
and the truth we have denied.
875
00:51:31,839 --> 00:51:36,010
Heal us of our sin, wash us in your mercy,
876
00:51:36,093 --> 00:51:38,262
and feed us with your grace
877
00:51:38,345 --> 00:51:43,350
so that we may follow Your way
and live out the Good News of the Gospel.
878
00:51:43,434 --> 00:51:44,393
Amen.
879
00:51:44,476 --> 00:51:47,813
You have received that forgiveness,
and that grace, and that peace from God.
880
00:51:47,896 --> 00:51:51,025
We're gonna take a moment
to share that peace with one another.
881
00:51:51,108 --> 00:51:52,359
[indistinct chattering]
882
00:51:55,154 --> 00:51:56,113
Good morning!
883
00:51:57,072 --> 00:51:58,490
What's your name? I'm Julie.
884
00:51:59,199 --> 00:52:01,994
[Julie] From the time that I was 17,
885
00:52:02,077 --> 00:52:05,623
Ricky was saying,
"You're gonna be the next big thing."
886
00:52:06,624 --> 00:52:10,044
He had a big hope for me
that I was gonna carry the mantle.
887
00:52:10,544 --> 00:52:15,424
And so they put me up
as a poster child when I was really young.
888
00:52:16,258 --> 00:52:18,344
People would come to me
with these visions of, like,
889
00:52:18,427 --> 00:52:21,680
"I see a stadium of 10,000 people,
890
00:52:21,764 --> 00:52:26,060
and you're just preaching the Gospel
and a message of hope and healing."
891
00:52:27,061 --> 00:52:30,314
It was definitely
a big part of my involvement
892
00:52:30,397 --> 00:52:31,607
at Living Hope and Exodus,
893
00:52:31,690 --> 00:52:35,152
was this idea that I was called
to be the next big leader.
894
00:52:36,362 --> 00:52:40,741
Please give a very warm welcome
to my friend, Julie Rodgers.
895
00:52:40,824 --> 00:52:42,076
[audience applauding, whooping]
896
00:52:46,580 --> 00:52:47,581
Oh, I'm okay.
897
00:52:52,252 --> 00:52:53,504
I came home one day,
898
00:52:53,587 --> 00:52:57,299
and I told my mom that I was a lesbian,
and that I was sick of hiding it from her.
899
00:52:58,967 --> 00:53:00,844
Well, she freaked out,
900
00:53:00,928 --> 00:53:04,723
and, uh, she somehow got in touch
with Ricky Chelette
901
00:53:04,807 --> 00:53:07,476
from Living Hope Ministries.
Shout out, Living Hope!
902
00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:08,560
[audience whoops]
903
00:53:08,644 --> 00:53:10,437
That's my people. He was actually, um…
904
00:53:10,521 --> 00:53:12,898
[Julie narrating] Ricky had told
Exodus leadership
905
00:53:12,981 --> 00:53:14,108
that I should be speaking,
906
00:53:14,191 --> 00:53:17,277
and I probably spoke for them
at eight to ten different conferences.
907
00:53:18,028 --> 00:53:20,364
[Julie on stage] So I'd decided,
by senior year high school,
908
00:53:20,447 --> 00:53:24,076
I was gonna give my life to the Lord
and follow him with all of my heart.
909
00:53:25,202 --> 00:53:28,122
[Julie narrating] I had
a really bad experience
910
00:53:28,205 --> 00:53:32,000
when I was in college,
involving sexual assault.
911
00:53:32,501 --> 00:53:36,922
And the people in Living Hope
were the only people I told about it.
912
00:53:37,965 --> 00:53:40,092
I don't think they knew
quite what to do with it.
913
00:53:40,175 --> 00:53:43,679
But what happened was, very quickly after,
914
00:53:43,762 --> 00:53:45,973
within the next year, um,
915
00:53:46,056 --> 00:53:49,017
Ricky wanted me
to incorporate that into my testimony.
916
00:53:49,601 --> 00:53:51,478
I decided I didn't want to share that,
917
00:53:51,562 --> 00:53:54,732
and I went with Ricky somewhere
and, like, gave my testimony beforehand.
918
00:53:54,815 --> 00:53:56,442
I decided I didn't wanna share
that detail
919
00:53:56,525 --> 00:53:58,318
because I was like,
it just didn't feel right.
920
00:53:58,402 --> 00:54:00,946
I don't feel comfortable about it.
This is something that's mine
921
00:54:01,029 --> 00:54:02,322
that I need to work through more.
922
00:54:02,823 --> 00:54:05,242
And on the way home that night, um,
923
00:54:05,325 --> 00:54:07,202
he would always
kind of, like, give me pointers,
924
00:54:07,286 --> 00:54:09,663
and he was like,
"You know, you did a really good job
925
00:54:09,747 --> 00:54:12,249
sharing your testimony, um,
926
00:54:12,332 --> 00:54:15,377
but I just really regret that you left out
the part about the rape."
927
00:54:16,336 --> 00:54:17,421
And I was like,
928
00:54:19,006 --> 00:54:20,799
"I didn't feel like talking about it."
929
00:54:20,883 --> 00:54:24,052
And he was like, "I just think
it kind of removes some of the power
930
00:54:24,136 --> 00:54:25,095
from your testimony."
931
00:54:26,555 --> 00:54:29,558
And he actually, um,
ended up taking advantage of me,
932
00:54:30,225 --> 00:54:31,685
sexually, that night
933
00:54:31,769 --> 00:54:33,771
when we went back to his apartment,
he-- he…
934
00:54:33,854 --> 00:54:35,439
…essentially ra-- raping me.
935
00:54:37,483 --> 00:54:39,401
[Julie narrating]
I ended up telling the story,
936
00:54:39,485 --> 00:54:41,862
but I remember feeling, like, so angry
937
00:54:41,945 --> 00:54:46,200
that all of these really intimate
experiences of my life
938
00:54:46,283 --> 00:54:51,997
were being orchestrated and put together
in a way that pushed in a narrative,
939
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,501
"Men are bad, and I hate men,
940
00:54:55,584 --> 00:54:58,796
and because of abuse,
I have turned to women."
941
00:54:59,463 --> 00:55:01,340
[Julie on stage] You let that happen?
942
00:55:03,342 --> 00:55:06,762
I tried to believe men could be trusted,
and that happens?
943
00:55:06,845 --> 00:55:08,347
I'm done with this!
944
00:55:08,430 --> 00:55:09,556
[dramatic music plays]
945
00:55:10,641 --> 00:55:14,061
[group sings in background]
♪ What eyes could look on ♪
946
00:55:14,144 --> 00:55:18,148
♪ Your glorious face ♪
947
00:55:18,816 --> 00:55:23,195
♪ Shining like the sun ♪
948
00:55:26,156 --> 00:55:30,994
[Julie] Looking back, I definitely wish
I hadn't been exploited in that way,
949
00:55:31,078 --> 00:55:33,705
and put up as a prop
at way too young of an age,
950
00:55:33,789 --> 00:55:36,208
when I was really emotionally vulnerable.
951
00:55:51,849 --> 00:55:53,767
Oh my gosh, look who it is!
952
00:55:54,643 --> 00:55:56,353
Three of my favorite people.
953
00:55:56,436 --> 00:55:57,938
[friend] How are you, boy?
954
00:55:58,772 --> 00:56:01,024
[Jeffrey] Oh my gosh,
what took y'all so long?
955
00:56:01,525 --> 00:56:03,527
-How are we doing?
-[indistinct chattering]
956
00:56:03,610 --> 00:56:06,446
-[indistinct chattering]
-Hi, precious!
957
00:56:09,408 --> 00:56:10,701
This is the church.
958
00:56:11,243 --> 00:56:13,662
This is ecclesia. This is the church.
959
00:56:14,162 --> 00:56:15,998
[lively indistinct chattering]
960
00:56:21,545 --> 00:56:24,047
The article from yesterday
is, like, going through the roof.
961
00:56:24,131 --> 00:56:26,717
People from all over the country
are clicking on it.
962
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:28,260
-That's amazing!
-Yes.
963
00:56:28,343 --> 00:56:30,262
-Word's getting out there.
-Amen.
964
00:56:30,345 --> 00:56:31,597
It's blowing up.
965
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,850
-Mmm! [laughs]
-Yes, I love it!
966
00:56:34,933 --> 00:56:37,019
Hey, y'all. We're about to start worship.
967
00:56:37,603 --> 00:56:39,479
[friend 2] They're about to start worship.
968
00:56:40,981 --> 00:56:43,525
[friend 3 loudly]
Okay, everybody be quiet please!
969
00:56:43,609 --> 00:56:44,443
Quiet.
970
00:56:44,902 --> 00:56:47,613
While I was here in 2017
was when the thought came to me,
971
00:56:47,696 --> 00:56:52,492
"We need to have a march
for people who left LGBTQ lifestyles."
972
00:56:52,576 --> 00:56:55,537
The Freedom March is
just all about y'all's stories.
973
00:56:55,621 --> 00:56:58,498
It's not just about my story.
It's about celebrating all your stories.
974
00:56:58,582 --> 00:57:02,878
Also, the Lord put on my heart to say,
"Be obedient in whatever He tells you."
975
00:57:03,378 --> 00:57:08,091
When you step out in obedience once,
He'll trust you more and more and more,
976
00:57:08,175 --> 00:57:12,220
and you will just continue to grow.
And a lot of times, it's the little things
977
00:57:12,304 --> 00:57:14,306
He watches us on at home,
the little things.
978
00:57:14,389 --> 00:57:16,975
Are you being obedient
with something He tells you little
979
00:57:17,059 --> 00:57:20,187
and not just a big ministry thing?
It's just every day being obedient.
980
00:57:20,270 --> 00:57:22,481
'Cause He said those
that love Him will obey Him.
981
00:57:22,564 --> 00:57:23,690
[group murmurs]
982
00:57:23,774 --> 00:57:24,983
[stomping]
983
00:57:26,818 --> 00:57:29,321
[prayer leader] I want you guys
to understand what's happening.
984
00:57:29,404 --> 00:57:30,697
This is the sound of unity.
985
00:57:30,781 --> 00:57:33,492
This is the sound of a warrior,
and that means business.
986
00:57:33,575 --> 00:57:35,202
[man] Yeah! Whoo!
987
00:57:35,285 --> 00:57:36,453
[all sing] ♪ Hey-na-hey ♪
988
00:57:36,536 --> 00:57:39,706
♪ Hey-na-hey-na-hey-na-hey ♪
989
00:57:39,790 --> 00:57:41,208
♪ Hey-na-hey ♪
990
00:57:41,291 --> 00:57:43,001
♪ Hey-na-hey ♪
991
00:57:43,085 --> 00:57:45,921
♪ Hey-na-hey-na-hey-na-hey ♪
992
00:57:46,004 --> 00:57:47,589
♪ I'm a warrior ♪
993
00:57:47,673 --> 00:57:50,133
♪ I'm a warrior, I'm a warrior… ♪
994
00:57:50,217 --> 00:57:52,427
[prayer leader] You prophesied
of this Freedom March.
995
00:57:52,511 --> 00:57:54,513
-It belongs to you, Father.
-[group] Yes!
996
00:57:54,596 --> 00:57:58,350
Right now, what's happening
is you are bringing your warriors
997
00:57:58,433 --> 00:58:00,394
in formation!
998
00:58:00,477 --> 00:58:01,937
[cheering]
999
00:58:03,188 --> 00:58:05,357
-[feet stomping]
-♪ Bring Your reformation ♪
1000
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,943
♪ Bring Your reformation ♪
1001
00:58:08,026 --> 00:58:10,153
♪ Bring Your reformation ♪
1002
00:58:10,237 --> 00:58:12,489
♪ To this nation ♪
1003
00:58:12,572 --> 00:58:14,574
♪ The Lion, the Lion ♪
1004
00:58:14,658 --> 00:58:16,660
♪ The Lion of Judah ♪
1005
00:58:16,743 --> 00:58:19,413
♪ Is roaring, is roaring ♪
1006
00:58:19,496 --> 00:58:20,914
♪ Is roaring for me ♪
1007
00:58:21,707 --> 00:58:23,709
♪ The Lion, the Lion ♪
1008
00:58:23,834 --> 00:58:25,836
♪ The Lion of Judah ♪
1009
00:58:25,919 --> 00:58:28,213
♪ Is roaring, is roaring… ♪
1010
00:58:28,296 --> 00:58:30,841
[tense music playing]
1011
00:58:30,924 --> 00:58:32,801
[indistinct murmuring, praying]
1012
00:58:57,909 --> 00:58:59,911
[unsettling music continues]
1013
00:59:27,564 --> 00:59:28,774
[music fading]
1014
00:59:39,868 --> 00:59:44,498
I'm gonna read from the section
about a group gathering at Living Hope.
1015
00:59:45,373 --> 00:59:47,375
How old were you during this time?
1016
00:59:47,459 --> 00:59:48,919
I was 17 when I started it,
1017
00:59:49,002 --> 00:59:52,172
and then this goes pretty much
like up through the end of college,
1018
00:59:52,255 --> 00:59:53,256
I would say.
1019
00:59:54,925 --> 00:59:56,551
"The first time I burned myself,
1020
00:59:56,635 --> 00:59:58,512
I was sitting on a curb
outside of the church
1021
00:59:58,595 --> 01:00:00,055
after a Living Hope meeting."
1022
01:00:00,806 --> 01:00:03,809
"As my cigarette burned low,
without giving it much thought,
1023
01:00:03,892 --> 01:00:06,478
I shoved the burning end of it
into my shoulder and listened
1024
01:00:06,561 --> 01:00:08,355
as the skin on my left arm sizzled."
1025
01:00:09,815 --> 01:00:12,400
"Shortly after that night,
I sat alone in my room,
1026
01:00:12,484 --> 01:00:15,570
lost in a whirlwind of fear,
agony, and self-loathing."
1027
01:00:15,654 --> 01:00:17,614
"That's when I remembered
the cigarette burn
1028
01:00:17,697 --> 01:00:20,117
and the wave of detachment
that washed through my body
1029
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,035
the moment the fire seared my skin."
1030
01:00:22,577 --> 01:00:26,164
"After scanning my room for ment--
metal objects that would heat under fire,
1031
01:00:26,248 --> 01:00:27,791
I landed on a quarter."
1032
01:00:27,874 --> 01:00:31,419
"Clamping the quarter with tweezers,
I plunged it into the flame of a lighter,
1033
01:00:31,503 --> 01:00:33,713
my heart rate rising
as the coin heated up."
1034
01:00:34,297 --> 01:00:38,093
"I inhaled, flexed my left arm,
and pressed the quarter deep in my flesh
1035
01:00:38,176 --> 01:00:40,512
until the skin broke and the pain numbed."
1036
01:00:41,930 --> 01:00:45,225
"I repeated the process
at least 20 times that afternoon,
1037
01:00:45,308 --> 01:00:48,728
searing straight lines into my shoulder,
each a few inches wide."
1038
01:00:50,397 --> 01:00:53,483
"For weeks, I engaged in a routine
of applying Neosporin to the wounds
1039
01:00:53,567 --> 01:00:54,985
every morning and evening."
1040
01:00:55,527 --> 01:00:57,904
"We were safe in those moments,
me and my body."
1041
01:00:58,446 --> 01:01:01,032
"I could roll up my shirt sleeve,
expose my wounds,
1042
01:01:01,116 --> 01:01:03,285
and be met
with tenderness and compassion."
1043
01:01:04,703 --> 01:01:07,539
"In the years that followed,
when the anguish became unbearable,
1044
01:01:07,622 --> 01:01:09,249
I would return to this routine,
1045
01:01:09,332 --> 01:01:13,253
burning straight lines into my shoulders
and tending to the wounds to self-soothe."
1046
01:01:13,753 --> 01:01:14,713
[sniffs]
1047
01:01:15,881 --> 01:01:18,592
"I've heard depression described
as anger turned inward."
1048
01:01:18,675 --> 01:01:21,803
"Perhaps that's what I was doing
in my dorm room all those years ago."
1049
01:01:21,887 --> 01:01:25,307
"I took the rage I felt about living
in a body that couldn't be submitted
1050
01:01:25,390 --> 01:01:27,559
into the kind of body
it was supposed to be,
1051
01:01:27,642 --> 01:01:31,313
a straight body,
a feminine body, a good Christian body,
1052
01:01:31,396 --> 01:01:32,731
and I lit it on fire."
1053
01:01:37,694 --> 01:01:39,696
-[whispers] I love you, babe.
-[whispers] I love you.
1054
01:01:40,614 --> 01:01:41,448
I'm sorry.
1055
01:01:43,158 --> 01:01:44,743
[Julie] Yeah, it's kind of intense.
1056
01:01:49,664 --> 01:01:50,790
[Amanda softly] Yeah, it is.
1057
01:01:51,333 --> 01:01:52,751
[traffic buzzing]
1058
01:01:53,835 --> 01:01:54,878
[car horn honking]
1059
01:02:01,968 --> 01:02:02,928
[footsteps tapping]
1060
01:02:04,012 --> 01:02:05,263
[indistinct chattering]
1061
01:02:09,434 --> 01:02:10,602
[John] Over the years,
1062
01:02:10,685 --> 01:02:13,605
it was increasingly harder
to keep my homosexuality--
1063
01:02:13,688 --> 01:02:15,023
keeping the lid on it.
1064
01:02:16,358 --> 01:02:18,985
Primarily, it was
through use of pornography,
1065
01:02:19,486 --> 01:02:23,657
which my wife would discover,
and it would very much trouble her.
1066
01:02:24,366 --> 01:02:27,035
I can understand why it would trouble her.
1067
01:02:27,702 --> 01:02:28,870
It was threatening.
1068
01:02:28,954 --> 01:02:31,665
It was disobedient.
1069
01:02:31,748 --> 01:02:35,210
It meant--
Did it mean I was reverting back?
1070
01:02:36,503 --> 01:02:38,630
I remember her turning to me
one day and saying,
1071
01:02:38,713 --> 01:02:40,757
"John, why can't you just obey?"
1072
01:02:42,384 --> 01:02:46,054
"Why can't you make the Godly decision?"
1073
01:02:47,305 --> 01:02:49,474
And I remember saying to her,
1074
01:02:50,850 --> 01:02:52,143
"I-- I-- don't know."
1075
01:02:52,227 --> 01:02:53,436
[somber music playing]
1076
01:02:57,023 --> 01:02:59,109
I don't know why it didn't go away.
1077
01:02:59,609 --> 01:03:02,070
I don't know how to make it go away.
1078
01:03:02,153 --> 01:03:06,157
It's getting worse.
The older I get, it's getting worse.
1079
01:03:10,704 --> 01:03:16,001
I found myself surrounded
by people who loved me,
1080
01:03:16,501 --> 01:03:18,086
my wife and my sons,
1081
01:03:18,169 --> 01:03:19,421
and I felt all alone.
1082
01:03:22,716 --> 01:03:23,717
I…
1083
01:03:25,427 --> 01:03:29,472
ached to be loved and to love a man.
1084
01:03:32,267 --> 01:03:34,352
And I had gotten to the point where
1085
01:03:36,271 --> 01:03:38,523
the root causes of all this
1086
01:03:39,107 --> 01:03:40,692
didn't matter anymore.
1087
01:03:41,943 --> 01:03:46,448
The right or wrong of this,
biblically, didn't matter anymore.
1088
01:03:47,824 --> 01:03:51,870
I thought, "If I don't go
on this journey to figure out who I am,
1089
01:03:52,370 --> 01:03:53,621
I will take my life."
1090
01:03:54,831 --> 01:03:56,166
I will take my life.
1091
01:04:16,019 --> 01:04:19,022
I was in Washington D.C. for meetings,
1092
01:04:19,939 --> 01:04:22,400
and I started drinking.
1093
01:04:24,027 --> 01:04:25,236
I got intoxicated,
1094
01:04:25,862 --> 01:04:27,405
and I went into a gay bar.
1095
01:04:29,741 --> 01:04:33,661
Someone came up to me
and recognized who I was.
1096
01:04:33,745 --> 01:04:35,497
I mean, really, what was I thinking?
1097
01:04:37,248 --> 01:04:40,794
There was a gay activist that was called.
He was outside the bar.
1098
01:04:41,669 --> 01:04:45,465
And he took a photograph of me
with my hand in front of my face
1099
01:04:45,548 --> 01:04:47,092
and me running down the street.
1100
01:04:47,175 --> 01:04:48,259
[indistinct arguing]
1101
01:04:53,807 --> 01:04:54,808
[cars whizzing]
1102
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:01,981
[indistinct voices shouting]
1103
01:05:05,026 --> 01:05:07,821
[Yvette] It was a Monday morning.
1104
01:05:09,072 --> 01:05:13,159
And I got into my office,
and I knew that John was there.
1105
01:05:13,243 --> 01:05:14,536
He was a friend of mine.
1106
01:05:14,619 --> 01:05:16,538
So he comes into my office,
1107
01:05:16,621 --> 01:05:19,457
and I thought
we would just chat and catch up.
1108
01:05:19,541 --> 01:05:23,211
And he was shaking. He sat on my chair.
He barely looked at me.
1109
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:28,174
I knew this was
gonna come out immediately, so I lied.
1110
01:05:28,883 --> 01:05:30,427
I said I didn't know it was a gay bar,
1111
01:05:30,510 --> 01:05:32,303
and I had gone
in there to use the bathroom.
1112
01:05:32,387 --> 01:05:37,142
Well, any person with half
a brain realized, "Come on, John."
1113
01:05:37,225 --> 01:05:40,812
He knew it was much bigger
than what he was telling us.
1114
01:05:41,479 --> 01:05:42,981
And I felt so bad for him
1115
01:05:43,064 --> 01:05:47,444
because he was leaning over
in the chair with his cup of coffee,
1116
01:05:47,527 --> 01:05:49,821
which I'll never forget, and saying,
1117
01:05:51,322 --> 01:05:53,783
"I hope I didn't hurt the movement."
1118
01:05:54,534 --> 01:05:58,079
And that's what he kept saying,
"I hope I didn't hurt the movement."
1119
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:00,248
I was so…
1120
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,003
like, "What in the world?"
1121
01:06:05,587 --> 01:06:09,632
And not within five minutes,
the phone started ringing off the wall.
1122
01:06:10,967 --> 01:06:14,637
Everybody just thought
John was amazing, that he hung the moon.
1123
01:06:15,597 --> 01:06:19,684
He was successful.
He was eloquent. He had a great testimony.
1124
01:06:20,518 --> 01:06:24,063
And just like any prominent,
charismatic leader,
1125
01:06:24,147 --> 01:06:28,193
who doesn't live up
to their audience's ideals,
1126
01:06:28,276 --> 01:06:31,446
when he was busted
running from the gay bar,
1127
01:06:31,529 --> 01:06:33,781
it sent everybody into a shock.
1128
01:06:35,241 --> 01:06:36,659
[dramatic music playing]
1129
01:06:47,378 --> 01:06:49,005
[John] My wife had had enough.
1130
01:06:49,589 --> 01:06:52,550
She filed legal separation papers.
1131
01:06:52,634 --> 01:06:53,801
She divorced me.
1132
01:06:56,804 --> 01:07:00,391
I had never been honest a day in my life.
1133
01:07:01,226 --> 01:07:05,313
It was lie,
after lie, after lie, after lie.
1134
01:07:06,898 --> 01:07:08,733
-[traffic buzzing]
-[horn honking]
1135
01:07:16,115 --> 01:07:19,410
When John left the movement,
it was very memorable
1136
01:07:19,494 --> 01:07:23,331
because of his impact
on the movement as a whole, um,
1137
01:07:24,415 --> 01:07:28,545
but as far as the functioning of Exodus,
it continued unhindered.
1138
01:07:29,796 --> 01:07:31,756
Um, yes, my name is Randy Thomas.
1139
01:07:31,839 --> 01:07:33,883
I'm the executive vice president
for Exodus.
1140
01:07:33,967 --> 01:07:39,138
We have almost 200 member agencies
in Canada and the United States.
1141
01:07:39,222 --> 01:07:42,892
[Randy narrating] Exodus started getting
more political in 2003.
1142
01:07:43,476 --> 01:07:49,274
We started traveling to D.C.
to participate in meetings and events
1143
01:07:49,357 --> 01:07:52,610
with religious-right leaders
and power brokers.
1144
01:07:53,778 --> 01:07:57,532
They knew that they had
a problem humanizing the issues.
1145
01:07:58,157 --> 01:08:01,411
And we were there
to help them fix that problem.
1146
01:08:02,579 --> 01:08:04,038
They couldn't say,
1147
01:08:04,539 --> 01:08:08,751
"Our views are healthier
than gay-- LGBTQ views,"
1148
01:08:08,835 --> 01:08:09,752
but they can.
1149
01:08:09,836 --> 01:08:12,880
-[dramatic music playing]
-[crowd cheering, applauding]
1150
01:08:14,132 --> 01:08:16,050
[Randy] There was a huge push
1151
01:08:16,134 --> 01:08:19,345
to do everything that we could
while Bush was in office
1152
01:08:19,429 --> 01:08:22,807
and both houses of Congress
were Republican-controlled
1153
01:08:23,308 --> 01:08:26,269
to stave off LGBTQ rights
1154
01:08:26,352 --> 01:08:29,772
as much as possible, and maybe forever.
1155
01:08:30,982 --> 01:08:33,901
Marriage between a man and a woman
is the ideal,
1156
01:08:33,985 --> 01:08:38,656
and the job of the president
is to drive policy toward the ideal.
1157
01:08:38,740 --> 01:08:40,325
[crowd cheering]
1158
01:08:40,408 --> 01:08:41,784
[anchorwoman] Just after midnight,
1159
01:08:41,868 --> 01:08:45,872
thousands celebrated what was
once just a dream in Massachusetts.
1160
01:08:46,873 --> 01:08:52,170
[Randy] The most important investment
Exodus made into politics
1161
01:08:52,253 --> 01:08:54,088
was over the marriage battle.
1162
01:08:54,172 --> 01:08:57,091
That was so important to us
1163
01:08:57,175 --> 01:09:01,220
because we were promoting
an idealized version of life.
1164
01:09:02,221 --> 01:09:05,975
Gay marriage felt
like an existential threat
1165
01:09:06,059 --> 01:09:09,187
against our idealized goals
for people in our ministries.
1166
01:09:12,148 --> 01:09:16,402
They were seeing
the culture say it's healthy and good
1167
01:09:17,111 --> 01:09:20,823
to marry the person
that you're truly attracted to and love.
1168
01:09:20,907 --> 01:09:23,117
Well, we had to counter that message.
1169
01:09:23,201 --> 01:09:27,497
You wanna know why I fight so hard
for the marriage issue?
1170
01:09:27,997 --> 01:09:32,627
Because marriage transcends
what we understand of it
1171
01:09:32,710 --> 01:09:34,504
and bears the image of God.
1172
01:09:34,587 --> 01:09:38,383
[anchorman] Same-sex couples have been
getting legally married in California,
1173
01:09:38,466 --> 01:09:42,220
but the ceremonies will stop
if Proposition 8 passes,
1174
01:09:42,303 --> 01:09:44,597
amending California's constitution
1175
01:09:44,681 --> 01:09:48,184
so it defines marriage
as only between one man
1176
01:09:48,267 --> 01:09:49,352
and one woman.
1177
01:09:50,770 --> 01:09:53,981
I started working for Exodus
in the summer of 2008,
1178
01:09:54,065 --> 01:09:57,068
so right before the elections.
1179
01:09:57,151 --> 01:09:58,820
[audience whooping, applauding]
1180
01:09:58,903 --> 01:10:03,408
[Yvette] And I went to work
on the Prop 8 campaign immediately.
1181
01:10:05,118 --> 01:10:07,495
I was invited to this event,
1182
01:10:07,578 --> 01:10:09,747
and they had cameras there
1183
01:10:09,831 --> 01:10:12,959
so that people in churches all across
1184
01:10:13,042 --> 01:10:17,255
the state of California could watch
this event that we're putting on.
1185
01:10:17,338 --> 01:10:20,299
I don't mean to be crass,
but men and women's body parts
1186
01:10:20,383 --> 01:10:24,011
fit together to become a single organism…
1187
01:10:24,095 --> 01:10:25,179
-[guests laugh]
-[applause]
1188
01:10:25,263 --> 01:10:26,097
…for…
1189
01:10:26,180 --> 01:10:28,474
[guests chuckles, speak indistinctly]
1190
01:10:31,769 --> 01:10:34,605
…for the purpose of creating children.
1191
01:10:34,689 --> 01:10:37,066
If sexual orientation
1192
01:10:37,150 --> 01:10:42,071
or sexual attractions were the basis
upon which we were allowed to marry,
1193
01:10:42,155 --> 01:10:47,243
then pedophiles would have to be allowed
to marry six-, seven-, eight-year-olds.
1194
01:10:48,077 --> 01:10:50,163
Mothers and sons,
1195
01:10:50,246 --> 01:10:53,875
sisters and brothers, any--
any combination would have to be allowed.
1196
01:10:54,417 --> 01:10:56,210
[Yvette narrating] A big part
of the message
1197
01:10:56,294 --> 01:10:58,463
was the slippery slope argument.
1198
01:10:59,046 --> 01:11:02,675
Okay, so you're saying
two women or two men now,
1199
01:11:02,759 --> 01:11:04,510
but then what's it gonna become?
1200
01:11:05,845 --> 01:11:09,891
It's just knowing
the fears that people have.
1201
01:11:10,641 --> 01:11:14,562
What is it that I can say
that is really going to scare them,
1202
01:11:15,146 --> 01:11:16,564
if they're on the fence?
1203
01:11:18,483 --> 01:11:20,735
And a lot of people were on the fence
1204
01:11:21,235 --> 01:11:24,530
and just sort of ambivalent
one way or the other, and you think,
1205
01:11:24,614 --> 01:11:27,533
"Oh well, you know, who cares
how this is gonna affect me?"
1206
01:11:27,617 --> 01:11:29,494
"This is how it's gonna affect you."
1207
01:11:29,577 --> 01:11:30,828
[cheering, applauding]
1208
01:11:33,539 --> 01:11:37,835
Churches made a point of saying,
"You are voting yes on this."
1209
01:11:38,544 --> 01:11:42,548
I'm convinced
that this is what pushed Prop 8 over,
1210
01:11:42,632 --> 01:11:43,633
why it passed.
1211
01:11:44,175 --> 01:11:47,345
It's the kindness of God
that leads us to repent.
1212
01:11:47,845 --> 01:11:49,055
[cheering]
1213
01:11:49,138 --> 01:11:50,765
[Yvette on stage]
It's the kindness of God…
1214
01:11:50,848 --> 01:11:53,309
[Yvette narrating]
So many churches coming together.
1215
01:11:53,810 --> 01:11:56,354
I've never seen something
like that happen before,
1216
01:11:56,437 --> 01:11:58,564
ever, before Prop 8.
1217
01:11:58,648 --> 01:12:00,650
-[cheering]
-[Yvette speaking inaudibly]
1218
01:12:01,943 --> 01:12:03,694
[distorted cheering]
1219
01:12:07,490 --> 01:12:09,158
[distorted cheering continues]
1220
01:12:11,118 --> 01:12:12,912
[Randy] When Prop 8 passed,
1221
01:12:12,995 --> 01:12:15,164
I was not an Obama supporter at the time.
1222
01:12:15,665 --> 01:12:17,834
Back then, I was like, "Ugh, Obama won."
1223
01:12:17,917 --> 01:12:18,751
You know?
1224
01:12:18,835 --> 01:12:20,086
But Prop 8 passed!
1225
01:12:20,169 --> 01:12:23,589
You know, and I was talking up
a good game on social media.
1226
01:12:23,673 --> 01:12:25,216
[clamoring]
1227
01:12:25,299 --> 01:12:27,343
[anchorman]
Thousands marched in California,
1228
01:12:27,426 --> 01:12:30,054
protesting the election night passage
of Proposition 8.
1229
01:12:30,137 --> 01:12:33,307
[anchorwoman] A massive protest
on the passage of Proposition 8,
1230
01:12:33,391 --> 01:12:35,434
the ban on same-sex marriage.
1231
01:12:36,185 --> 01:12:38,145
I had never felt such a sense of…
1232
01:12:39,438 --> 01:12:40,690
of being less of a person.
1233
01:12:40,773 --> 01:12:42,400
-[reporter] You're crying.
-Yeah.
1234
01:12:43,442 --> 01:12:45,528
I'm just ashamed of our state.
1235
01:12:47,864 --> 01:12:51,492
[Randy] But I'll never forget that night,
watching the news.
1236
01:12:52,451 --> 01:12:53,744
[solemn music playing]
1237
01:13:00,251 --> 01:13:01,502
[music continues]
1238
01:13:09,594 --> 01:13:10,469
[clicks tongue]
1239
01:13:11,137 --> 01:13:12,763
[quivering] Seeing my community…
1240
01:13:15,516 --> 01:13:18,352
Back then, I didn't realize it,
but I knew in my heart.
1241
01:13:18,436 --> 01:13:20,938
Watching my community take to the streets…
1242
01:13:23,024 --> 01:13:26,360
and mourning the passage of Prop 8.
1243
01:13:28,446 --> 01:13:29,864
When I looked at the TV,
1244
01:13:30,781 --> 01:13:32,033
and a voice inside me said,
1245
01:13:32,116 --> 01:13:34,493
"How could you do that
to your own people?"
1246
01:13:34,577 --> 01:13:35,578
[music continues]
1247
01:13:41,709 --> 01:13:43,711
[quivering] And I saw these men crying.
1248
01:13:45,004 --> 01:13:47,924
And I knew that their dreams
had just been shattered.
1249
01:13:50,259 --> 01:13:52,553
And I couldn't talk
the same way after that.
1250
01:13:52,637 --> 01:13:53,888
[music continues]
1251
01:14:04,357 --> 01:14:05,358
[music stops]
1252
01:14:18,704 --> 01:14:23,125
[Yvette] After Prop 8,
I started having extreme anxiety,
1253
01:14:23,209 --> 01:14:24,543
panic attacks.
1254
01:14:25,711 --> 01:14:28,965
We were driving down
to an Exodus conference,
1255
01:14:29,799 --> 01:14:32,093
and we were
probably two hours into the drive,
1256
01:14:32,176 --> 01:14:34,011
and I started having a panic attack.
1257
01:14:36,222 --> 01:14:41,185
Every time I'm going to do something
that's related to Exodus
1258
01:14:41,268 --> 01:14:43,104
or ex-gay things,
1259
01:14:43,187 --> 01:14:45,272
I'm gonna have these panic attacks.
1260
01:14:45,856 --> 01:14:47,483
I still didn't know.
1261
01:14:47,566 --> 01:14:48,818
I didn't know why.
1262
01:14:54,407 --> 01:14:56,283
I met with this therapist,
1263
01:14:56,367 --> 01:14:59,286
and she said,
"Obviously you have trauma here,
1264
01:14:59,370 --> 01:15:03,290
because you're exhibiting symptoms
that are more like PTSD."
1265
01:15:05,209 --> 01:15:08,504
And that's when
it really started to dawn on me.
1266
01:15:08,587 --> 01:15:10,047
There's something wrong.
1267
01:15:10,131 --> 01:15:11,841
So it wasn't even conscious.
1268
01:15:12,341 --> 01:15:14,343
It was more physical at first,
1269
01:15:14,427 --> 01:15:17,763
where my body
just would not allow me to continue.
1270
01:15:18,305 --> 01:15:21,058
When we're talking
about the ex-gay movement,
1271
01:15:21,559 --> 01:15:24,145
it's wanting to be part of a group.
1272
01:15:24,228 --> 01:15:26,230
It's wanting to belong,
1273
01:15:26,313 --> 01:15:27,732
and here are my people.
1274
01:15:28,274 --> 01:15:31,277
Here are people
who have the same struggles as I do.
1275
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:35,781
So you're going to abide
by the rules of the group.
1276
01:15:36,532 --> 01:15:38,701
And even if there's shame involved,
1277
01:15:38,784 --> 01:15:42,204
it seems like a small price to pay
for what you're getting.
1278
01:15:42,288 --> 01:15:45,416
[therapist] That was the major theme
throughout our work…
1279
01:15:45,499 --> 01:15:46,333
[Yvette] Yeah.
1280
01:15:46,417 --> 01:15:48,210
[therapist] …to understand shame.
1281
01:15:48,836 --> 01:15:53,466
Shame being
this inherent feeling of, "I am wrong."
1282
01:15:54,133 --> 01:15:55,843
-Right.
-"I am bad."
1283
01:15:55,926 --> 01:15:59,055
I think we all struggle all the time
with trying to manage that.
1284
01:16:00,639 --> 01:16:04,769
You're in a place now in your life
where nobody's gonna tell you what to do,
1285
01:16:05,311 --> 01:16:07,980
and no one's gonna tell you who you are.
1286
01:16:08,606 --> 01:16:10,733
[inhales deeply] It's so different.
1287
01:16:11,484 --> 01:16:14,278
[crying] 'Cause I've spent nine years
in this room,
1288
01:16:14,779 --> 01:16:17,490
and I've changed so much in that time.
1289
01:16:17,573 --> 01:16:19,909
[sniffles] I'm nothing like what I was.
1290
01:16:20,576 --> 01:16:21,577
Nothing.
1291
01:16:22,745 --> 01:16:23,954
[sighs]
1292
01:16:24,997 --> 01:16:27,917
[Yvette]
The puzzle pieces were coming together.
1293
01:16:28,667 --> 01:16:32,171
Even with the same-sex attractions
in myself,
1294
01:16:32,797 --> 01:16:34,173
those never went away.
1295
01:16:35,341 --> 01:16:37,051
Is that change, then?
1296
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:41,680
Because before I had been
defining change on actions alone.
1297
01:16:41,764 --> 01:16:45,309
Then I'm thinking,
"Well, did that really go away?"
1298
01:16:46,352 --> 01:16:48,395
No! I just changed
1299
01:16:49,480 --> 01:16:52,149
how-- what my connections
with people were.
1300
01:16:53,567 --> 01:16:55,444
And I just avoided things.
1301
01:16:57,029 --> 01:16:58,739
But did I really change?
1302
01:16:58,823 --> 01:16:59,824
Oops!
1303
01:17:00,491 --> 01:17:01,492
[daughter laughs]
1304
01:17:01,992 --> 01:17:04,537
-[piece clatters]
-And I gotta move.
1305
01:17:04,620 --> 01:17:07,498
-[daughter] Hey, hey, hey.
-Oh! Oh!
1306
01:17:07,581 --> 01:17:10,543
[Yvette] I would classify myself
as bisexual.
1307
01:17:11,544 --> 01:17:13,087
I love my husband.
1308
01:17:13,170 --> 01:17:15,214
Been married for a long time.
1309
01:17:16,549 --> 01:17:22,096
And then I knew, okay,
then I have the capacity for both.
1310
01:17:23,347 --> 01:17:25,766
You know, I-- I'm attracted to both.
1311
01:17:27,309 --> 01:17:30,020
-[husband] There you go.
-Actually, that kind of works out for me.
1312
01:17:30,563 --> 01:17:33,399
[husband] You're cheating
because it's Mother's Day.
1313
01:17:33,482 --> 01:17:35,317
[Yvette] Yep. [laughs]
1314
01:17:38,571 --> 01:17:40,573
[hopeful music playing]
1315
01:17:51,375 --> 01:17:53,252
[Julie] Ugh! This is so great.
1316
01:17:53,335 --> 01:17:55,629
[wedding planner] I know!
Such a great view.
1317
01:17:55,713 --> 01:17:58,215
Wow. It's gonna be so gorgeous.
1318
01:17:59,258 --> 01:18:00,259
[whispers] Wow.
1319
01:18:01,927 --> 01:18:03,971
[wedding planner]
You guys will walk out as a couple,
1320
01:18:04,054 --> 01:18:07,474
and then if you're thinking
about doing formals at the high altar,
1321
01:18:07,558 --> 01:18:10,644
we'll stash you away,
and then let your guests clear out.
1322
01:18:10,728 --> 01:18:13,480
When cocktail hour is in full swing,
you'll come back up.
1323
01:18:13,564 --> 01:18:14,481
-Oh my goodness!
-Yeah.
1324
01:18:14,565 --> 01:18:17,443
Will you take a picture of us?
We're just so excited.
1325
01:18:17,526 --> 01:18:19,278
-Which way do you wanna face?
-We'll do both!
1326
01:18:20,279 --> 01:18:23,240
[Julie] When I was still involved
at Living Hope,
1327
01:18:23,824 --> 01:18:26,243
I was severely,
severely, severely depressed,
1328
01:18:26,869 --> 01:18:31,081
but I didn't know why
I was overwhelmed or sad.
1329
01:18:32,374 --> 01:18:34,043
And I always felt like such a freak.
1330
01:18:34,126 --> 01:18:36,170
Like, oh, like, "What's wrong with me?"
1331
01:18:36,253 --> 01:18:39,965
"Like, I'm a total maniac, like,
burning up and hurting my own body,"
1332
01:18:40,049 --> 01:18:44,053
and this and that, because I didn't see it
1333
01:18:44,136 --> 01:18:48,057
as a result of, like,
the system and the culture
1334
01:18:48,140 --> 01:18:50,226
around me that made me hate myself.
1335
01:18:51,936 --> 01:18:54,688
I continued to believe
that God will help me live a life
1336
01:18:54,772 --> 01:18:56,315
of purity and holiness.
1337
01:18:58,150 --> 01:19:03,030
I was speaking at Exodus conferences
and doing writing on their blog,
1338
01:19:03,113 --> 01:19:06,659
and I was seen as a leader
within the movement.
1339
01:19:08,744 --> 01:19:10,955
[crowd cheering]
1340
01:19:13,082 --> 01:19:15,709
[Lisa Ling] While the gay rights movement
breaks historic ground,
1341
01:19:15,793 --> 01:19:18,587
the ranks of defectors
from the ex-gay movement,
1342
01:19:18,671 --> 01:19:20,756
so-called "ex-ex-gays,"
1343
01:19:20,839 --> 01:19:22,841
are growing and growing louder.
1344
01:19:23,425 --> 01:19:27,554
[crowd chanting] Ex-gay, no way!
Don't believe a word they say! Ex-gay…
1345
01:19:28,180 --> 01:19:30,975
[Lisa Ling] Michael Bussee
is helping them find their voice.
1346
01:19:31,725 --> 01:19:35,521
Decades after founding Exodus,
he has found a new calling.
1347
01:19:36,647 --> 01:19:38,941
[Michael] I retired a few years ago
and now pretty much deal
1348
01:19:39,024 --> 01:19:41,860
with folks who come out
of reparative therapy programs.
1349
01:19:41,944 --> 01:19:44,280
I have a couple of online groups
I do on Facebook.
1350
01:19:45,322 --> 01:19:48,909
For the past several decades,
I've been an outspoken former leader,
1351
01:19:48,993 --> 01:19:51,996
trying to educate people
about the harm that these programs do
1352
01:19:52,079 --> 01:19:56,000
and also supporting survivors
as they speak out.
1353
01:19:58,877 --> 01:20:02,256
[Julie] If somebody left,
we didn't hear from them again.
1354
01:20:03,007 --> 01:20:05,301
The way they were talked about internally
was like,
1355
01:20:05,384 --> 01:20:07,928
"Oh, they've gone to the dark side,
they've given in to the flesh."
1356
01:20:08,512 --> 01:20:12,808
Just this kind of this crazy talk of like,
they are gone. They are dead to us.
1357
01:20:14,184 --> 01:20:16,603
[Michael] Exodus always tried
to distance themselves
1358
01:20:16,687 --> 01:20:18,188
from the stories of survivors.
1359
01:20:19,231 --> 01:20:22,026
They tried to say,
"Oh, those are the outliers."
1360
01:20:22,651 --> 01:20:25,738
"Yeah, in every organization,
there are some people who are harmed
1361
01:20:25,821 --> 01:20:28,991
or who-- but that's not
the vast majority of people."
1362
01:20:30,784 --> 01:20:32,619
But the press started
picking up these stories
1363
01:20:32,703 --> 01:20:35,789
of people that had been harmed
by ex-gay programs.
1364
01:20:36,874 --> 01:20:39,293
That made it harder
for Exodus to ignore them.
1365
01:20:41,420 --> 01:20:44,882
I wrote a blog post one day
1366
01:20:45,674 --> 01:20:47,468
to publish on Exodus's site.
1367
01:20:47,551 --> 01:20:52,181
And I basically, toward the end of it,
spoke to ex-gay survivors and said like,
1368
01:20:52,264 --> 01:20:53,265
"I'm so sorry…"
1369
01:20:54,058 --> 01:20:55,893
"I'm so sorry that you went through this,
1370
01:20:55,976 --> 01:20:59,396
and I'm so sorry that you didn't hear
that God loves you, like, right now,
1371
01:20:59,480 --> 01:21:00,814
like exactly where you are."
1372
01:21:00,898 --> 01:21:03,609
I said at the end of it,
"I hope someday I can hear your stories."
1373
01:21:05,152 --> 01:21:06,820
Michael Bussee reached out to me,
1374
01:21:06,904 --> 01:21:10,407
and he was like, "You said you wanted
to hear the stories of survivors."
1375
01:21:10,491 --> 01:21:14,161
"I can create a Facebook group
for us to have some sort of exchange."
1376
01:21:14,244 --> 01:21:16,330
And so I was like, okay,
like, I meant that.
1377
01:21:17,623 --> 01:21:19,708
Seventy-five people agreed
to be a part of it.
1378
01:21:20,209 --> 01:21:22,503
So many of them
were really gracious to me,
1379
01:21:22,586 --> 01:21:26,006
considering what I represented,
being connected to Exodus.
1380
01:21:26,507 --> 01:21:30,010
And yet they were very honest
about how much ex-gay teaching
1381
01:21:30,094 --> 01:21:31,512
had ruined their lives.
1382
01:21:34,056 --> 01:21:35,557
What ends up happening is
1383
01:21:35,641 --> 01:21:38,727
Lisa Ling reaches out to Exodus
1384
01:21:38,811 --> 01:21:41,980
and Michael Bussee and is like,
"I heard about this group going on."
1385
01:21:42,064 --> 01:21:44,733
"Would y'all be interested
in doing it on air?"
1386
01:21:46,860 --> 01:21:49,363
I was the president of Exodus at the time.
1387
01:21:49,863 --> 01:21:53,575
And I thought it was important
that I listened to their stories.
1388
01:21:54,576 --> 01:21:57,454
They came up with…
with a group of people, um,
1389
01:21:57,538 --> 01:22:01,125
some of whom I'd had direct contact with,
most of whom I hadn't.
1390
01:22:02,543 --> 01:22:04,336
We met in a church basement
1391
01:22:04,837 --> 01:22:06,713
and had the most intense
1392
01:22:08,173 --> 01:22:11,301
group therapy encounter
that I have ever been through.
1393
01:22:19,226 --> 01:22:20,602
[survivor] Each survivor here comes
1394
01:22:20,686 --> 01:22:22,896
from a different level.
Some of them are fresh out.
1395
01:22:22,980 --> 01:22:25,816
Some of us have been surviving
for 12 years,
1396
01:22:26,442 --> 01:22:29,903
waiting for a moment to look at you
and say, "You are responsible
1397
01:22:29,987 --> 01:22:32,573
because you've had opportunities
to see our wounds before,
1398
01:22:32,656 --> 01:22:34,741
and you've not done anything about it."
1399
01:22:34,825 --> 01:22:36,201
[survivor 2] The irony of it is
1400
01:22:36,285 --> 01:22:40,289
I feel I lost my soul in trying
to do the right thing all the time.
1401
01:22:40,372 --> 01:22:42,749
Not from doing the wrong thing,
not from "giving in."
1402
01:22:42,833 --> 01:22:45,461
I lost my soul
because I did the right thing.
1403
01:22:46,712 --> 01:22:48,213
[quivering] And these kids,
1404
01:22:48,297 --> 01:22:50,424
they're killing themselves
1405
01:22:50,507 --> 01:22:53,844
because of things
that continue to be said to them,
1406
01:22:53,927 --> 01:22:55,262
that they're not good enough,
1407
01:22:55,345 --> 01:22:57,890
and that they're not beautiful
as they are.
1408
01:22:57,973 --> 01:23:01,393
And I am not okay with that,
and I can be silent no longer.
1409
01:23:06,982 --> 01:23:11,570
It was absolutely devastating,
and I think for me, it was the first time
1410
01:23:11,653 --> 01:23:15,574
that I identified more
with the survivors sharing their story
1411
01:23:15,657 --> 01:23:19,828
than I did with anybody from Exodus.
1412
01:23:21,997 --> 01:23:25,167
[Julie] These stories of deep, deep pain
1413
01:23:25,250 --> 01:23:26,919
shook me down to my core.
1414
01:23:27,836 --> 01:23:32,424
Feeling like they were in many ways
1415
01:23:32,508 --> 01:23:34,218
sharing my story.
1416
01:23:38,305 --> 01:23:41,934
I remember feeling like I was sitting
on the wrong side of the circle.
1417
01:23:43,060 --> 01:23:44,061
And I was just like,
1418
01:23:44,144 --> 01:23:47,356
I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't,
I can't do this anymore.
1419
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:51,318
Like, I can't be a part of it.
This is just so toxic.
1420
01:23:54,238 --> 01:23:56,865
[Randy] When the Lisa Ling show came out,
1421
01:23:57,449 --> 01:24:00,744
I knew then that Exodus was death,
1422
01:24:00,827 --> 01:24:02,496
and it was destruction.
1423
01:24:03,622 --> 01:24:07,543
[voice quivering] Because those survivors
were looking at us right in the face.
1424
01:24:08,043 --> 01:24:12,881
And we could no longer excuse it away.
We could no longer deny it.
1425
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:16,802
And that Exodus could no longer continue
1426
01:24:17,386 --> 01:24:20,097
to promote the idea of change
1427
01:24:20,180 --> 01:24:21,557
because that was a lie.
1428
01:24:29,856 --> 01:24:32,901
Exodus was started in 1976 to create
1429
01:24:32,985 --> 01:24:34,653
a community together,
1430
01:24:36,572 --> 01:24:37,906
but we've hurt people.
1431
01:24:39,533 --> 01:24:41,201
And it is for these reasons
1432
01:24:41,702 --> 01:24:43,412
Exodus International,
1433
01:24:43,495 --> 01:24:47,165
the oldest and largest Christian ministry
dealing with faith and homosexuality,
1434
01:24:47,249 --> 01:24:49,001
is closing its doors… [quivers]
1435
01:24:49,084 --> 01:24:52,212
…after three-plus decades of ministry.
1436
01:24:52,754 --> 01:24:54,214
[hopeful music playing]
1437
01:25:11,565 --> 01:25:13,275
[Julie] Once Exodus was ending,
1438
01:25:13,358 --> 01:25:17,362
I started trying to build a life
away from Living Hope.
1439
01:25:18,363 --> 01:25:20,574
I felt the loss of my community,
1440
01:25:20,657 --> 01:25:24,161
but I had to leave to get healthier.
1441
01:25:25,162 --> 01:25:27,873
I came to realize
that I was really needy and unhealthy
1442
01:25:27,956 --> 01:25:31,376
because there were zero people in my life
1443
01:25:31,460 --> 01:25:35,589
who ever just said like,
"You're okay exactly the way you are,
1444
01:25:35,672 --> 01:25:38,508
and we love you, and God loves you,
and you don't have to change a thing."
1445
01:25:40,093 --> 01:25:43,764
Being able to move away
from Living Hope and ex-gay teaching
1446
01:25:44,264 --> 01:25:47,059
and admit that I was gay
1447
01:25:47,142 --> 01:25:49,519
and that that was actually, like,
a good thing,
1448
01:25:49,603 --> 01:25:52,939
for the first time,
I started to feel light, and happy,
1449
01:25:53,023 --> 01:25:58,987
and like God loved me and liked me,
and it was just all fine, and I was fine.
1450
01:26:01,198 --> 01:26:02,908
We've talked
about how Christian communities
1451
01:26:02,991 --> 01:26:06,912
are where we've experienced so much pain
and trauma in our lives.
1452
01:26:07,412 --> 01:26:08,789
At the same time,
1453
01:26:08,872 --> 01:26:11,500
this faith has also been
a huge source of our healing.
1454
01:26:12,793 --> 01:26:15,504
When I interact with Jesus,
1455
01:26:15,587 --> 01:26:18,090
and see who Jesus was and how Jesus lived,
1456
01:26:18,173 --> 01:26:19,966
I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's amazing."
1457
01:26:20,050 --> 01:26:23,470
And so it's been really important for me
to sort of separate, I guess, like,
1458
01:26:23,553 --> 01:26:25,389
Jesus from the Christians who hurt me.
1459
01:26:26,598 --> 01:26:29,601
I was here this last Friday
for a service they did, um,
1460
01:26:29,685 --> 01:26:31,770
honoring and remembering Matthew Shepard.
1461
01:26:31,853 --> 01:26:33,563
And I have never seen,
1462
01:26:33,689 --> 01:26:36,733
I have absolutely never seen
so many queer people
1463
01:26:37,317 --> 01:26:38,694
in a church.
1464
01:26:39,695 --> 01:26:45,742
[crying] All these people who have carried
so much shame, and so much humiliation,
1465
01:26:45,826 --> 01:26:47,160
and physical abuse,
1466
01:26:47,244 --> 01:26:51,289
and all these things, um,
got to come into a church,
1467
01:26:51,915 --> 01:26:53,959
probably for the first time in decades,
1468
01:26:54,042 --> 01:26:56,962
and to hear, "You specifically…"
1469
01:26:57,462 --> 01:27:01,425
"You gay person, you bisexual person,
you transgender person,"
1470
01:27:01,508 --> 01:27:05,387
like, "You are welcome here,
and you are wanted here,
1471
01:27:05,470 --> 01:27:08,515
and we honor your lives,
and this is a safe place for you."
1472
01:27:09,516 --> 01:27:12,227
Having the grace
to find this kind of place,
1473
01:27:12,310 --> 01:27:16,523
who's gonna speak that blessing
over us and to us,
1474
01:27:16,606 --> 01:27:19,693
um, is the deepest source of healing
we could ever receive.
1475
01:27:21,653 --> 01:27:22,738
[train rumbling]
1476
01:27:25,198 --> 01:27:26,283
[train horn blaring]
1477
01:27:34,875 --> 01:27:36,752
[Julie] After Exodus ended,
1478
01:27:37,252 --> 01:27:41,298
the same work
that was going on under Exodus,
1479
01:27:41,381 --> 01:27:42,632
all those ministries,
1480
01:27:43,633 --> 01:27:47,137
including Ricky and Living Hope,
continued doing the work.
1481
01:27:49,097 --> 01:27:50,432
What I do is deal with folks,
1482
01:27:50,515 --> 01:27:53,727
for the most part, who are struggling
particularly with homosexuality.
1483
01:27:53,810 --> 01:27:57,522
-[audience applauding]
-And spending my days, spending my days
1484
01:27:57,606 --> 01:28:00,984
talking with people
who are sexually broken,
1485
01:28:01,067 --> 01:28:04,070
that there is freedom in Christ.
There is freedom…
1486
01:28:04,154 --> 01:28:07,866
[Julie] So, conversion therapy,
it appears to be flourishing and thriving
1487
01:28:07,949 --> 01:28:10,994
in Christian communities
where I come from.
1488
01:28:11,870 --> 01:28:14,915
A group accused
of promoting a controversial practice
1489
01:28:14,998 --> 01:28:17,209
aimed at changing sexual orientation
1490
01:28:17,292 --> 01:28:19,878
kicked off a conference
in San Diego today.
1491
01:28:19,961 --> 01:28:24,549
When we shut down Exodus,
most of the old-time leadership
1492
01:28:24,633 --> 01:28:26,676
decided to continue on
1493
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:29,888
and try to take as many people
as they could with them.
1494
01:28:30,639 --> 01:28:33,183
And that's how
the Restored Hope Network was born.
1495
01:28:33,809 --> 01:28:36,728
You have to tell us
about Restored Hope Network.
1496
01:28:36,812 --> 01:28:42,108
Restored Hope Network is a network
of ministries of people like me,
1497
01:28:42,192 --> 01:28:44,361
who have left homosexuality,
1498
01:28:44,444 --> 01:28:47,489
and who want to share
how to do so with others.
1499
01:28:47,572 --> 01:28:49,533
And that's exactly why I do this.
1500
01:28:49,616 --> 01:28:52,285
It's to get the word out
that there is hope.
1501
01:28:53,161 --> 01:28:58,291
My dad and I had a strained relationship,
not from a lack of love for each other,
1502
01:28:58,375 --> 01:29:00,335
but rather an inability
1503
01:29:00,418 --> 01:29:03,463
for us to really, truly connect
in the way that I needed,
1504
01:29:03,547 --> 01:29:05,715
leading to doubt and confusion.
1505
01:29:06,675 --> 01:29:09,261
At the age of 14,
I came out to my parents…
1506
01:29:10,428 --> 01:29:13,265
[Yvette] I mean, it's such indoctrination.
1507
01:29:13,348 --> 01:29:17,352
All of the lingo that they use,
1508
01:29:17,435 --> 01:29:19,771
and the pattern of the testimony,
1509
01:29:19,855 --> 01:29:22,023
and even the pattern of their lives.
1510
01:29:23,233 --> 01:29:25,318
[crying] Seeing Katie walk down the aisle…
1511
01:29:28,238 --> 01:29:29,239
[sniffles]
1512
01:29:31,992 --> 01:29:34,119
It was a day that I'll never forget.
1513
01:29:36,079 --> 01:29:40,500
And our wedding day was
a true testament to Jesus Christ.
1514
01:29:40,584 --> 01:29:41,877
[audience applauding]
1515
01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:48,049
[Yvette]
In the past five years or so,
1516
01:29:48,133 --> 01:29:51,803
there have been
this mass defection of leaders,
1517
01:29:52,304 --> 01:29:55,432
but there are
new people taking up the torch.
1518
01:29:56,474 --> 01:30:00,020
And it's not dying the way
that we thought it would
1519
01:30:00,604 --> 01:30:01,730
or think it should.
1520
01:30:13,575 --> 01:30:17,454
[Jeffrey] There's some of the things
that the older ex-LGBTQ ministries do
1521
01:30:17,537 --> 01:30:18,747
that we don't do.
1522
01:30:18,830 --> 01:30:20,123
[indistinct chattering]
1523
01:30:21,458 --> 01:30:24,210
[Jeffrey] It's just a different way.
1524
01:30:25,337 --> 01:30:26,671
I think it's attracted
1525
01:30:27,255 --> 01:30:31,092
this younger generation
just going out on the streets.
1526
01:30:31,176 --> 01:30:32,969
[lively indistinct chattering]
1527
01:30:36,306 --> 01:30:38,516
[Jeffrey narrating]
Instead of being behind a conference,
1528
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:39,976
go out on the streets.
1529
01:30:40,602 --> 01:30:42,562
Instead of being
behind the church building,
1530
01:30:42,646 --> 01:30:45,982
go out to the people.
Like we're just doing it a different way.
1531
01:30:49,736 --> 01:30:51,154
[crowd applauding, whooping]
1532
01:30:51,237 --> 01:30:52,614
[emcee 1] Hello, everybody!
1533
01:30:54,157 --> 01:30:56,493
-[emcee 1 louder] Hello, everybody!
-[whooping louder]
1534
01:30:57,702 --> 01:31:01,081
[emcee 1]
This is our second annual Freedom March.
1535
01:31:02,165 --> 01:31:05,001
Some of us have traveled
all across the world.
1536
01:31:05,085 --> 01:31:07,754
All these different faces,
all these different races
1537
01:31:07,837 --> 01:31:10,006
to come and make a stand,
1538
01:31:10,090 --> 01:31:12,634
to come and let people know
that freedom is here.
1539
01:31:12,717 --> 01:31:15,637
[emcee 2] Give it up for the leader
of Freedom March, Jeffrey McCall.
1540
01:31:15,720 --> 01:31:17,347
[crowd applauding, whooping]
1541
01:31:21,017 --> 01:31:23,812
[Jeffrey on stage] The vision of this
is just sharing testimonies
1542
01:31:23,895 --> 01:31:26,856
of people that left the LGBTQ lifestyles,
1543
01:31:26,940 --> 01:31:28,650
that had an encounter with God.
1544
01:31:28,733 --> 01:31:31,569
And we're here together
to share our stories.
1545
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:33,989
Prayer works!
1546
01:31:34,072 --> 01:31:36,741
And I stand here proclaiming
the name of Jesus Christ,
1547
01:31:36,825 --> 01:31:39,411
that He is Lord, and I love Jesus!
1548
01:31:39,494 --> 01:31:42,872
Have you laid on the floor and said,
"Jesus, take this away from me
1549
01:31:42,956 --> 01:31:46,668
because I wanna follow you, Jesus.
I wanna be your son or daughter."
1550
01:31:46,751 --> 01:31:50,880
Lord Jesus, there is freedom
in the name of Jesus Christ.
1551
01:31:50,964 --> 01:31:54,092
I believe that something
is being birthed out of here today.
1552
01:31:55,051 --> 01:31:58,471
Father, I ask that you will unite us
as overcomers.
1553
01:31:59,180 --> 01:32:02,600
Lord, we want you back
in the forefronts of America.
1554
01:32:02,684 --> 01:32:04,894
In Jesus' name, we thank you, Father.
1555
01:32:05,478 --> 01:32:06,771
In Jesus' name.
1556
01:32:06,855 --> 01:32:08,898
[ethereal music playing]
1557
01:32:20,535 --> 01:32:21,703
[music fades]
1558
01:32:25,206 --> 01:32:26,708
Shortly after coming out,
1559
01:32:27,459 --> 01:32:28,793
a gay person
1560
01:32:30,503 --> 01:32:33,757
said very bluntly and directly
that I had blood on my hands.
1561
01:32:34,507 --> 01:32:37,927
He said, "What do you think
about the blood on your hands?"
1562
01:32:39,220 --> 01:32:40,805
[quivering] I said, "Right now…
1563
01:32:43,475 --> 01:32:46,061
all I know is I'm afraid
to look down at my hands."
1564
01:32:47,062 --> 01:32:48,271
[indistinct chattering]
1565
01:32:51,649 --> 01:32:56,154
[Randy narrating] As a leader,
I had been trained to acknowledge the loss
1566
01:32:56,237 --> 01:32:58,907
but to rationalize it away,
to go into denial.
1567
01:33:00,158 --> 01:33:01,910
And I hate that I did that.
1568
01:33:03,787 --> 01:33:06,915
And for many people
who don't commit suicide,
1569
01:33:07,415 --> 01:33:09,417
we're killing ourselves internally
1570
01:33:10,001 --> 01:33:12,962
by not embracing who God created us to be.
1571
01:33:13,838 --> 01:33:18,426
[all] Our Creator, who art in heaven,
hallowed be Thy name.
1572
01:33:19,094 --> 01:33:22,514
Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done,
1573
01:33:22,597 --> 01:33:24,849
on Earth as it is in heaven.
1574
01:33:25,558 --> 01:33:27,811
Give us this day our daily bread,
1575
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:30,480
and forgive us our trespasses,
1576
01:33:30,980 --> 01:33:34,400
as we forgive those
who trespass against us.
1577
01:33:35,401 --> 01:33:37,987
[Randy narrating]
I can't look back and say,
1578
01:33:38,071 --> 01:33:41,324
"This deserves forgiveness,"
or "I deserve forgiveness,"
1579
01:33:41,407 --> 01:33:42,450
'cause I don't.
1580
01:33:43,076 --> 01:33:44,327
What I did was wrong.
1581
01:33:44,994 --> 01:33:46,579
[crying] It was so wrong.
1582
01:33:50,542 --> 01:33:54,587
[Michael] When you finally realize
how much harm you've done,
1583
01:33:54,671 --> 01:33:57,257
it's a crushing realization.
1584
01:33:57,340 --> 01:33:59,175
It's a devastating feeling.
1585
01:34:02,887 --> 01:34:04,597
But apology only goes so far.
1586
01:34:05,390 --> 01:34:08,309
You really can't go back
and give people back those years
1587
01:34:08,393 --> 01:34:10,270
that they wasted trying to be ex-gay.
1588
01:34:10,979 --> 01:34:13,648
All you can do is,
from this point forward,
1589
01:34:13,731 --> 01:34:16,860
speak out against it,
and speak out strongly against it.
1590
01:34:16,943 --> 01:34:18,611
[interviewer] Talk directly to the camera.
1591
01:34:18,695 --> 01:34:20,655
I want you to talk
to your former colleagues
1592
01:34:20,738 --> 01:34:23,199
about what they're still doing
with this type of work.
1593
01:34:23,783 --> 01:34:27,120
Well, I used to be a true believer,
just like you did.
1594
01:34:27,620 --> 01:34:30,790
I mean, I absolutely thought
that what we were doing was right,
1595
01:34:31,374 --> 01:34:34,169
but all it does is crush souls.
1596
01:34:34,252 --> 01:34:36,379
It crushes peoples' lives.
1597
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:39,299
I can't stand that I was a part of it,
1598
01:34:39,382 --> 01:34:43,720
and I would hope that you would have
the empathy and compassion
1599
01:34:43,803 --> 01:34:46,973
to see that all it does is damage.
1600
01:34:51,019 --> 01:34:53,605
-[birds chirping]
-[hopeful piano music playing]
1601
01:35:06,701 --> 01:35:08,453
[music continues]
1602
01:35:27,597 --> 01:35:29,766
[pastor whispers] Okay,
take a deep breath.
1603
01:35:31,601 --> 01:35:35,063
We've come together
in the presence of God to witness
1604
01:35:35,563 --> 01:35:37,607
and bless the joining together
1605
01:35:38,107 --> 01:35:41,110
of Amanda and Julie in holy matrimony.
1606
01:35:41,903 --> 01:35:44,447
[Julie] I suffered trauma,
1607
01:35:44,530 --> 01:35:48,826
and it definitely resulted
in extreme forms of self-hatred,
1608
01:35:49,911 --> 01:35:51,287
but I survived.
1609
01:35:51,871 --> 01:35:55,041
I'm really happy,
and I found somebody that I love so much.
1610
01:35:55,124 --> 01:35:58,670
And we're doing well,
but not everybody is.
1611
01:36:00,922 --> 01:36:05,885
Ex-gay leaders are doing what they believe
is the best thing for all of us.
1612
01:36:06,594 --> 01:36:10,723
The problem is that
they think whole and healthy means
1613
01:36:10,807 --> 01:36:13,309
trying to fit ourselves
into something we can't be.
1614
01:36:14,185 --> 01:36:16,271
I wish that they would listen to us
1615
01:36:16,354 --> 01:36:18,606
and believe us when we say
1616
01:36:19,315 --> 01:36:22,986
that we really are
so much healthier and happier
1617
01:36:23,069 --> 01:36:25,238
now that we're no longer a part of that.
1618
01:36:25,863 --> 01:36:29,659
[pastor] God created you
for communion with one another.
1619
01:36:30,618 --> 01:36:35,164
And the highest expression
of this communion will be your marriage.
1620
01:36:35,915 --> 01:36:37,333
You may kiss your bride.
1621
01:36:38,835 --> 01:36:40,795
-[applauding, whooping]
-[pastor laughs]
1622
01:36:47,844 --> 01:36:50,930
[director] Thank you so much
for sharing your story. Thanks, Julie.
1623
01:36:52,390 --> 01:36:53,808
[indistinct chattering]
1624
01:37:03,276 --> 01:37:05,820
As long as homophobia exists
in this world,
1625
01:37:06,321 --> 01:37:09,365
some version of Exodus will emerge.
1626
01:37:11,367 --> 01:37:13,411
Because it's not the organization,
1627
01:37:13,494 --> 01:37:15,455
and it's not even
the methods that they use.
1628
01:37:15,538 --> 01:37:17,206
It's the underlying belief
1629
01:37:18,416 --> 01:37:20,543
that there is something
intrinsically disordered
1630
01:37:20,626 --> 01:37:22,378
and change-worthy about being gay.
1631
01:37:24,839 --> 01:37:27,592
As long as that continues to exist,
1632
01:37:27,675 --> 01:37:29,802
there will be some form of this.
1633
01:37:32,764 --> 01:37:34,766
[dramatic music playing]