1 00:00:13,220 --> 00:00:16,050 [white noise] 2 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,050 [soft chatter] 3 00:00:25,210 --> 00:00:27,080 The name of this song is 4 00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:29,000 "When You Know Ti and Do," 5 00:00:29,019 --> 00:00:30,999 by the Class. 6 00:00:34,219 --> 00:00:37,129 [piano plays] 7 00:01:25,180 --> 00:01:28,190 [eerie music overtakes lyrics] 8 00:01:46,049 --> 00:01:49,069 [insects chirping] 9 00:01:55,159 --> 00:01:57,109 SAWYER: While I was in the group, 10 00:01:57,129 --> 00:02:01,079 we were in touch with a bulletin board service. 11 00:02:01,099 --> 00:02:04,109 Because of that, we were becoming informed 12 00:02:04,129 --> 00:02:08,049 about what the... UFO community was talking about. 13 00:02:13,020 --> 00:02:15,000 BENJAMIN: In late 1996, 14 00:02:15,020 --> 00:02:19,000 the group began to orient itself towards departure. 15 00:02:19,020 --> 00:02:20,190 And, in particular, 16 00:02:20,210 --> 00:02:22,090 they bought into the conspiracy theory, 17 00:02:22,110 --> 00:02:25,000 in 1997, that the government 18 00:02:25,020 --> 00:02:27,070 was hiding the existence 19 00:02:27,090 --> 00:02:29,200 of a flying saucer 20 00:02:29,219 --> 00:02:32,059 that was trailing the Hale-Bopp comet. 21 00:02:35,199 --> 00:02:38,029 The most important name to think about here is Art Bell. 22 00:02:38,050 --> 00:02:40,120 Art Bell was 23 00:02:40,139 --> 00:02:43,069 a source of conspiratorial thinking, 24 00:02:43,090 --> 00:02:44,230 and you could tune in, 25 00:02:45,009 --> 00:02:46,209 and you could listen to everything from beliefs 26 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,080 about space aliens and UFOs to Bigfoot. 27 00:02:51,020 --> 00:02:53,020 ART: Chuck Shramek in Houston, Texas. 28 00:02:53,039 --> 00:02:55,059 - Chuck, welcome to the program. CHUCK: Thanks, Art. 29 00:02:55,079 --> 00:02:57,009 ART: A lot of people have felt 30 00:02:57,030 --> 00:02:59,050 something's going on with Hale-Bopp. 31 00:02:59,069 --> 00:03:00,159 CHUCK: Well, I have too. 32 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:03,130 There's been a real lack of pictures 33 00:03:03,150 --> 00:03:06,210 from the Hubble Space Telescope or anything, observatories. 34 00:03:06,229 --> 00:03:08,179 So, that got me all the more curious. 35 00:03:08,199 --> 00:03:10,079 I can smell when they're-- 36 00:03:10,099 --> 00:03:12,129 ART: Why would they do that? 37 00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:13,230 CHUCK: Perhaps they saw something 38 00:03:14,009 --> 00:03:15,179 they felt might disturb people. 39 00:03:15,199 --> 00:03:17,039 ART: You have just taken a photograph. 40 00:03:17,060 --> 00:03:19,060 - [camera snap] - When did you take it? Tonight? 41 00:03:19,079 --> 00:03:21,129 CHUCK: I took it at 6:00 this evening. 42 00:03:21,150 --> 00:03:23,120 ART: Six o'clock, all right. 43 00:03:23,139 --> 00:03:25,009 CHUCK: This thing appears to be 44 00:03:25,030 --> 00:03:27,080 several times larger than the Earth. 45 00:03:27,099 --> 00:03:30,169 And my heart starts going fasters. 46 00:03:30,189 --> 00:03:33,019 The next day, Art Bell gets another call. 47 00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:35,209 And this call is from Courtney Brown, 48 00:03:35,229 --> 00:03:37,219 who's part of the Farsight Institute. 49 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,060 He and his students claim 50 00:03:40,079 --> 00:03:42,139 there is a very large object 51 00:03:42,159 --> 00:03:45,099 following Hale-Bopp Comet. 52 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,140 ART: Professor, what the hell is that? 53 00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:50,169 COURTNEY: This object is four times-- 54 00:03:50,189 --> 00:03:54,059 approximately four times the size of the planet Earth, 55 00:03:54,079 --> 00:03:55,209 and it's headed our way. 56 00:03:55,229 --> 00:03:57,079 BENJAMIN: Now, for members of Heaven's Gate, 57 00:03:57,099 --> 00:03:58,219 this is important for a couple of reasons. 58 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,160 One is, their idea of the Next Level spaceships 59 00:04:01,180 --> 00:04:04,050 they're gonna go onto are really, really big. 60 00:04:04,069 --> 00:04:05,179 The other is they have been looking 61 00:04:05,199 --> 00:04:08,019 for a sign for the end for quite a while. 62 00:04:08,039 --> 00:04:09,219 The term they use is a marker. 63 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,220 The Hale Bopp Comet had something to do 64 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,070 with the decision to do it now. 65 00:04:13,090 --> 00:04:16,010 Why now? Why not 1999? 66 00:04:16,029 --> 00:04:17,149 Yes, the Hale-Bopp Comet 67 00:04:17,170 --> 00:04:18,230 did have something to do with it 68 00:04:19,009 --> 00:04:20,189 because Ti and Do, from the beginning, 69 00:04:20,209 --> 00:04:22,999 were very tuned in to the significance 70 00:04:23,019 --> 00:04:25,999 of celestial events and their synchronistic... 71 00:04:26,019 --> 00:04:28,039 association with events on Earth. 72 00:04:28,060 --> 00:04:31,020 DO: Within the past 24 hours, 73 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,190 I have been clearly informed 74 00:04:33,209 --> 00:04:35,189 by my older member 75 00:04:35,209 --> 00:04:37,189 of how short the time is. 76 00:04:37,209 --> 00:04:39,149 JANJA LALICH: They believe there was a spaceship 77 00:04:39,170 --> 00:04:41,070 behind the Hale-Bopp Comet 78 00:04:41,090 --> 00:04:44,070 that was Ti coming to get them. 79 00:04:44,090 --> 00:04:46,130 And so they went to town, and they bought a... 80 00:04:46,149 --> 00:04:48,999 very expensive telescope. 81 00:04:51,110 --> 00:04:56,000 [soft chatter, laughter] 82 00:04:56,019 --> 00:04:58,149 SAWYER: Do and the crew, they had a telescope, 83 00:04:58,170 --> 00:05:00,080 and they were watching the heavens, 84 00:05:00,100 --> 00:05:02,070 recording anything they saw 85 00:05:02,089 --> 00:05:05,009 in the heavens that was unusual. 86 00:05:05,029 --> 00:05:06,159 JANJA: And they looked up in the sky, 87 00:05:06,180 --> 00:05:09,080 and they didn't see any bloody spaceship. 88 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:12,040 So, what did they do? They took the telescope 89 00:05:12,060 --> 00:05:15,200 back to the store and said, "This telescope doesn't work." 90 00:05:15,220 --> 00:05:18,040 MAN: They didn't see 91 00:05:18,060 --> 00:05:20,000 what they thought they were going to see. 92 00:05:20,019 --> 00:05:21,209 They said they were looking for the companion. 93 00:05:21,230 --> 00:05:23,110 That's what they told me. 94 00:05:23,129 --> 00:05:25,039 I said, "Companion?" And they said, 95 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:27,230 "The companion-- the companion of Hale-Bopp." 96 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,000 LARRY KING: Whitley, what do you make 97 00:05:30,019 --> 00:05:32,029 of the connection with Hale-Bopp? 98 00:05:32,050 --> 00:05:34,170 WHITLEY: Well, as you know, there was a lot of controversy 99 00:05:34,189 --> 00:05:36,079 about whether or not there was an object 100 00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:37,170 near the Hale-Bopp Comet. 101 00:05:37,189 --> 00:05:40,199 Myself and another radio host, Art Bell, eventually 102 00:05:40,220 --> 00:05:43,130 discovered this to be a fraud. 103 00:05:43,149 --> 00:05:45,169 SAWYER: Whether there was a companion object 104 00:05:45,189 --> 00:05:48,169 with Hale-Bopp or not was irrelevant. 105 00:05:48,189 --> 00:05:51,209 They recognized that Hale-Bopp was the spacecraft 106 00:05:51,230 --> 00:05:55,150 that they had been talking about coming in the 1970s. 107 00:05:55,170 --> 00:05:59,220 So that just informed them of the timing of their exit. 108 00:06:01,230 --> 00:06:03,170 BENJAMIN: The reason they chose March to exit was 109 00:06:03,189 --> 00:06:05,159 that that's when the comet was closest to Earth. 110 00:06:05,180 --> 00:06:07,190 And that also coincided with Easter. 111 00:06:09,079 --> 00:06:11,129 DO: The Kingdom of Heaven is in our midst. 112 00:06:11,149 --> 00:06:15,009 In other words, the door is open. 113 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,160 If you follow me, you believe in me, 114 00:06:19,180 --> 00:06:21,150 you do exactly as I say, 115 00:06:21,170 --> 00:06:23,040 and you'll get there. 116 00:06:23,060 --> 00:06:25,090 You will not know death. 117 00:06:27,009 --> 00:06:28,179 JANJA: This is, like, 20 years you're waiting 118 00:06:28,199 --> 00:06:30,059 for the ship to come. 119 00:06:30,079 --> 00:06:32,139 If you put yourself in their shoes for a minute, 120 00:06:32,159 --> 00:06:35,049 you can sort of see their sense of relief. 121 00:06:35,069 --> 00:06:38,149 Like, oh, my God, we're finally gonna get out of here. 122 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,220 [music playing] 123 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,020 [distant chatter] 124 00:07:15,139 --> 00:07:17,069 BENJAMIN: Members of Heaven's Gate had 125 00:07:17,089 --> 00:07:18,209 their Christmas party in December, 126 00:07:18,230 --> 00:07:20,130 before the suicides. 127 00:07:22,170 --> 00:07:25,100 [soft chatter] 128 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,160 You see them baking cakes, 39 cakes, right? 129 00:07:34,209 --> 00:07:37,119 A member had left and come back, 130 00:07:37,139 --> 00:07:38,999 and you see them greeting the member 131 00:07:39,019 --> 00:07:40,089 and hugging the member. 132 00:07:40,110 --> 00:07:41,160 [laughter] 133 00:07:41,180 --> 00:07:43,130 This is like springtime for you, huh? 134 00:07:43,149 --> 00:07:46,029 [laughing] 135 00:07:46,050 --> 00:07:48,050 Hey, ALXODY! 136 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,050 - You were invited! - [laughter] 137 00:07:53,110 --> 00:07:55,130 ...slowly turned to silence... 138 00:07:55,149 --> 00:07:57,189 BENJAMIN: You see them reading out of books. 139 00:07:57,209 --> 00:07:59,999 Sort of telling a story. It was "Jumanji," actually. 140 00:08:00,019 --> 00:08:02,199 "'Jumanji,' she read on the box. 141 00:08:02,220 --> 00:08:04,180 A jungle adventure game..." 142 00:08:04,199 --> 00:08:06,169 BENJAMIN: You see them doing a talent show. 143 00:08:08,180 --> 00:08:10,170 [applause] 144 00:08:14,019 --> 00:08:16,019 [laughter] 145 00:08:19,019 --> 00:08:21,089 Everything about this group, if you didn't know 146 00:08:21,110 --> 00:08:23,020 there was a suicide three months later, 147 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,160 you wouldn't say, well, this is a group that was 148 00:08:24,180 --> 00:08:26,130 about to end their lives. 149 00:08:26,149 --> 00:08:28,129 [laughter] 150 00:08:30,009 --> 00:08:31,129 [applause] 151 00:08:31,149 --> 00:08:33,169 SAWYER: For the group to lay down their vehicles, 152 00:08:33,190 --> 00:08:35,200 their suits of clothing that they were wearing, 153 00:08:35,220 --> 00:08:37,200 wasn't a big deal to them because they believed 154 00:08:37,220 --> 00:08:39,120 all this... already, 155 00:08:39,139 --> 00:08:41,009 and they not only believed it, 156 00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:44,039 but they-- they had related with Do enough, 157 00:08:44,059 --> 00:08:46,039 and they trusted him a hundred percent. 158 00:08:46,059 --> 00:08:48,179 No, I'm just here for the entertainment. 159 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,210 [laughter] 160 00:08:50,230 --> 00:08:56,000 ♪ Let's start at the very beginning ♪ 161 00:08:56,019 --> 00:09:00,009 ♪ A very good place to start ♪ 162 00:09:00,029 --> 00:09:04,069 ♪ When you sing, you begin with do re mi ♪ 163 00:09:04,090 --> 00:09:09,160 ♪ When it's time, you begin with Do and Ti ♪ 164 00:09:09,179 --> 00:09:11,139 ♪ Ti and Do ♪ 165 00:09:11,159 --> 00:09:15,029 ♪ Do re mi fa so la ti ♪ 166 00:09:15,049 --> 00:09:18,019 [Radiohead, "Everything in Its Right Place"] 167 00:09:20,159 --> 00:09:23,089 They all headed up to Gold Beach, Oregon, 168 00:09:23,110 --> 00:09:26,060 which is where Bonnie and Herff had had their revelation. 169 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,180 REPORTER: In a detailed ledger left behind by the cult, 170 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,110 the weeks leading up to the mass suicide read 171 00:09:35,129 --> 00:09:36,219 like one big vacation. 172 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,040 Trips to SeaWorld, 173 00:09:38,059 --> 00:09:40,219 San Diego's wild animal park. 174 00:09:46,049 --> 00:09:49,149 Mexico, and the Stratosphere Hotel in Las Vegas, 175 00:09:49,169 --> 00:09:51,199 where they gambled and won $20. 176 00:09:53,090 --> 00:09:55,040 BENJAMIN: Suicide was not something that 177 00:09:55,059 --> 00:09:57,039 they decided on a moment's notice 178 00:09:57,059 --> 00:09:58,149 they were going to do. 179 00:09:58,169 --> 00:10:02,029 They began the buildup actually in the end of 1996, 180 00:10:02,049 --> 00:10:03,229 in terms of uploading content to their website. 181 00:10:04,009 --> 00:10:06,159 ♪ Everything ♪ 182 00:10:08,009 --> 00:10:12,069 ♪ In its right place ♪ 183 00:10:12,090 --> 00:10:13,210 ♪ In its right place ♪ 184 00:10:13,230 --> 00:10:15,030 BENJAMIN: They feared the government may try 185 00:10:15,049 --> 00:10:17,009 to take down their website, 186 00:10:17,029 --> 00:10:19,059 so they had sent physical floppy disks 187 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,230 around the world with copies of their materials, 188 00:10:22,009 --> 00:10:23,189 so that, in the event the government took down 189 00:10:23,210 --> 00:10:25,120 their American host, it could be hosted 190 00:10:25,139 --> 00:10:27,119 in, I believe, it was Brazil and Poland. 191 00:10:27,139 --> 00:10:30,219 ♪ In its right place ♪ 192 00:10:31,220 --> 00:10:33,120 ♪ In its right place ♪ 193 00:10:33,139 --> 00:10:35,159 BENJAMIN: They also made efforts 194 00:10:35,179 --> 00:10:37,999 to have their intellectual property maintained 195 00:10:38,019 --> 00:10:40,049 by several ex-members with whom they had 196 00:10:40,070 --> 00:10:42,000 a positive and favorable relationship. 197 00:10:42,019 --> 00:10:44,109 ♪ Yesterday, I was... ♪ 198 00:10:44,129 --> 00:10:46,079 BENJAMIN: And they actually thought that all the interest 199 00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:50,080 in Hale-Bopp Comet was an impetus for doing this. 200 00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:54,170 ♪ Sucking a lemon... ♪ 201 00:10:56,100 --> 00:11:01,160 ♪ Everything ♪ 202 00:11:01,179 --> 00:11:03,159 For members of Heaven's Gate and for Do, 203 00:11:03,179 --> 00:11:05,059 this was their chance. 204 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,060 Are you filming this? No. 205 00:11:09,149 --> 00:11:13,079 This is March 19, 1997. 206 00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:15,010 I've been talking to my students 207 00:11:15,029 --> 00:11:17,209 that are sitting in front of me. 208 00:11:17,230 --> 00:11:21,090 And, let me say that our mission here 209 00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:24,080 at this time is about to come to a close 210 00:11:24,100 --> 00:11:25,220 in the next few days. 211 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,210 They were trying to get our attention, 212 00:11:27,230 --> 00:11:30,130 'cause they thought we might follow them, 213 00:11:30,149 --> 00:11:33,149 and we might save our souls, effectively. 214 00:11:37,149 --> 00:11:39,089 BENJAMIN: They created several VHS tapes, 215 00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:42,000 which they sent to some former members. 216 00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:46,130 JASON BARTEL: They planned it out really well. 217 00:11:46,149 --> 00:11:48,159 They were just asking that our information 218 00:11:48,179 --> 00:11:51,019 be distributed after we're gone. 219 00:11:51,039 --> 00:11:52,169 DO: We're gonna begin our interviews today 220 00:11:52,190 --> 00:11:54,190 with SRRODY. 221 00:11:54,210 --> 00:11:57,140 How long have you been in this classroom circumstance? 222 00:11:57,159 --> 00:12:00,219 Since Valentine's Day, 21 years ago. 223 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,060 Yeah, I'll be happy just to get the suit of clothes off 224 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,080 and put on a brand-new fresh set with new vibrations 225 00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:09,170 and-- and be in a new atmosphere. 226 00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:12,020 I just wish people could understand 227 00:12:12,039 --> 00:12:14,229 how... it was instant recognition for me 228 00:12:15,009 --> 00:12:17,019 when I met Ti and Do in Waldport 229 00:12:17,039 --> 00:12:19,139 only 21 years ago, 230 00:12:19,159 --> 00:12:22,129 and-- and there was never a doubt in my mind. 231 00:12:24,070 --> 00:12:27,110 I just wish that people out there could understand 232 00:12:27,129 --> 00:12:30,079 how much we feel and know this is real. 233 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:31,230 This is not a fantasy. 234 00:12:32,009 --> 00:12:36,069 FRANK LYFORD: She has completely adopted 235 00:12:36,090 --> 00:12:41,200 the mindset as taught to her by her older member. 236 00:12:43,049 --> 00:12:45,139 JANJA: You can see them... 237 00:12:45,159 --> 00:12:48,069 taking on exactly the same... 238 00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:51,190 emotional characteristics as their leader. 239 00:12:51,210 --> 00:12:54,140 When you watch the night before, 240 00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:56,189 they had a meeting with Do, 241 00:12:56,210 --> 00:13:00,080 and whenever he talked about Ti, 242 00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:02,220 he choked up 243 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:04,180 and got teary 244 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,180 and would have to pause. 245 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,160 This chair represents... 246 00:13:10,179 --> 00:13:13,119 my partner... 247 00:13:13,139 --> 00:13:15,149 who I think I mentioned earlier 248 00:13:15,169 --> 00:13:19,069 was with me physically, had taken a body with me. 249 00:13:19,090 --> 00:13:21,000 And so the next day, 250 00:13:21,019 --> 00:13:22,999 when they're saying their goodbyes 251 00:13:23,019 --> 00:13:25,089 and whenever they would refer to Ti, 252 00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:27,050 that they were going off to see Ti, 253 00:13:27,070 --> 00:13:28,230 they would do the same thing. 254 00:13:29,009 --> 00:13:31,079 They would choke up in exactly the same way. 255 00:13:31,100 --> 00:13:34,080 I wish I had the opportunity to meet Ti, 256 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:37,000 but I know that I soon will, 257 00:13:37,019 --> 00:13:39,129 very shortly, and I can't wait. 258 00:13:41,019 --> 00:13:43,039 And we've all tried to prove to our older members 259 00:13:43,059 --> 00:13:45,139 that we're worthy of the effort 260 00:13:45,159 --> 00:13:48,169 and the sacrifice they made. [sobbing] 261 00:13:50,049 --> 00:13:53,079 We're very happy and proud 262 00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:57,110 to have been members of Ti and Do's Class 263 00:13:57,129 --> 00:14:02,069 and couldn't be happier about what we're about to do. 264 00:14:04,029 --> 00:14:06,009 [laughter] 265 00:14:06,029 --> 00:14:09,009 To me, that's one example of what we might call brainwashing. 266 00:14:09,029 --> 00:14:10,189 I can hardly wait. 267 00:14:10,210 --> 00:14:12,160 And I'm ready to go. 268 00:14:12,179 --> 00:14:14,209 JANJA: So, if you're sitting there, 269 00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:17,050 and you say, "I'm gonna do this," 270 00:14:17,070 --> 00:14:20,130 and you say it in front of everyone else, 271 00:14:20,149 --> 00:14:22,099 well, you're far less likely then 272 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,130 to say, "Oh, no, I don't wanna do it." 273 00:14:24,149 --> 00:14:26,139 You know, go running out in the street, right? 274 00:14:26,159 --> 00:14:28,149 I feel very honored 275 00:14:28,169 --> 00:14:29,999 and very, very lucky 276 00:14:30,019 --> 00:14:32,209 that I wasn't stuck back in the world 277 00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:35,130 where I chose to... 278 00:14:35,149 --> 00:14:38,069 make the mistake of going for a while. 279 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,220 KELLY COOKE: I think when I first saw it, 280 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,180 I wanted to grab her 281 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,000 through the camera lens. [laughing] 282 00:14:48,019 --> 00:14:50,999 Tell her, "No, you don't have to do this." 283 00:14:51,019 --> 00:14:52,139 [chuckling] 284 00:14:58,210 --> 00:15:01,020 This isn't a troubling circumstance. 285 00:15:01,039 --> 00:15:02,219 Don't take it as that. It's just a gateway. 286 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,220 Just a doorway. 287 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,030 DO: Okay, thank you. 288 00:15:06,049 --> 00:15:08,019 This was the last log that was used 289 00:15:08,039 --> 00:15:10,109 when they signed out before the suicides. 290 00:15:11,230 --> 00:15:13,190 And they wrote little comments for their ETR-- 291 00:15:13,210 --> 00:15:15,100 estimated time of return. 292 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,180 And say things like "Bye!" or "Never." 293 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,010 Question mark. "Hasta la vista, baby." 294 00:15:22,220 --> 00:15:26,100 We hope that we took advantage of the time that we had 295 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,100 incarnate in these human vehicles 296 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,150 and will be of better service to The Next Level because of it. 297 00:15:32,169 --> 00:15:34,149 If you want information about us, 298 00:15:34,169 --> 00:15:37,069 and lower forces don't interfere, 299 00:15:37,090 --> 00:15:39,170 you can find it at our site on the internet. 300 00:15:39,190 --> 00:15:43,070 www.heavensgate.com 301 00:15:43,090 --> 00:15:45,220 And one last thing we'd like to say is, 302 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,050 39 to beam up, thank you. 303 00:15:48,070 --> 00:15:50,010 [background laughter] 304 00:15:50,029 --> 00:15:52,029 [solitary clapping] 305 00:16:04,090 --> 00:16:08,050 [eerie pulsing music] 306 00:16:57,100 --> 00:16:59,080 VOICE: Dispatcher 55. 307 00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:00,180 DiANGELO: Hello? VOICE: Hello? 308 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,090 DiANGELO: Yes, I need to report... 309 00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:05,030 an anonymous tip. 310 00:17:05,049 --> 00:17:07,059 This is regarding... [continues] 311 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,079 SAWYER: Rio joined the group, 312 00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:29,019 I think, from California in 1994. 313 00:17:29,039 --> 00:17:30,219 And then he left the group 314 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,060 two weeks before they laid down their lives. 315 00:17:34,079 --> 00:17:36,099 I had a very uneasy feeling-- 316 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,049 a strange feeling-- that I needed to do something 317 00:17:39,069 --> 00:17:40,139 outside of the Class. 318 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,160 And I spoke to Do about it, 319 00:17:42,180 --> 00:17:44,210 and he felt that 320 00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:46,230 it was probably part of the plan. 321 00:17:47,009 --> 00:17:49,099 Some higher plan that we didn't know about. 322 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,089 DAVID: Apparently, he had talked to Do 323 00:17:51,109 --> 00:17:53,009 and asked if he could leave. 324 00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:54,129 That he had a vision, that he should 325 00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:56,030 write about his experiences 326 00:17:56,049 --> 00:17:58,119 and write something about the group. 327 00:17:58,140 --> 00:18:02,190 So, he left within a week before the suicides. 328 00:18:02,210 --> 00:18:05,150 After leaving the group, he got a packet from-- 329 00:18:05,170 --> 00:18:08,030 instructions from Do and others saying, 330 00:18:08,049 --> 00:18:10,109 if you could go to the house and make a recording 331 00:18:10,130 --> 00:18:13,130 of what you see, you'll find us here. 332 00:18:29,150 --> 00:18:32,070 SAWYER: Rio is the one that Do sent 333 00:18:32,089 --> 00:18:35,149 a bunch of information to, with a letter that... 334 00:18:35,170 --> 00:18:38,070 said that they were laying down their lives. 335 00:18:38,089 --> 00:18:40,139 And so he informed the police of that. 336 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:45,050 That became what's known as the Heaven's Gate suicides. 337 00:18:48,109 --> 00:18:50,159 REPORTER: Police in San Diego County say 338 00:18:50,180 --> 00:18:52,090 they've discovered what appears to be 339 00:18:52,109 --> 00:18:53,229 a mass suicide 340 00:18:54,009 --> 00:18:56,229 at a multi-million dollar mansion in Rancho Santa Fe. 341 00:18:57,009 --> 00:19:00,119 That's about 20 miles north of San Diego. 342 00:19:00,140 --> 00:19:02,090 2nd REPORTER: Rumors are rampant around here. 343 00:19:02,109 --> 00:19:04,099 Unconfirmed rumors that there may be 344 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,119 as many as 30 or 40 people inside that house. 345 00:19:07,140 --> 00:19:09,000 We do know from neighbors though 346 00:19:09,019 --> 00:19:11,189 that a religious group did move in back in the fall, 347 00:19:11,210 --> 00:19:13,210 and that they have been very, very quiet. 348 00:19:13,230 --> 00:19:16,000 I waved over the fence to some people. 349 00:19:16,019 --> 00:19:17,189 They never uttered a word. 350 00:19:17,210 --> 00:19:19,200 3rd REPORTER: Around town, the cult next door was 351 00:19:19,220 --> 00:19:22,200 paying its bills in advance, picking up the mail. 352 00:19:22,220 --> 00:19:24,080 Eating a sort of last supper 353 00:19:24,099 --> 00:19:25,999 of turkey pot pie. 354 00:19:26,019 --> 00:19:27,159 They all ordered the same drink, 355 00:19:27,180 --> 00:19:30,010 and they all had the same dinner and dessert. 356 00:19:30,029 --> 00:19:33,079 And bidding a cryptic farewell to friends at the car wash. 357 00:19:33,099 --> 00:19:35,129 ALEX: And he said, "Hey, Alex, 358 00:19:35,150 --> 00:19:37,200 we just stopped by to say goodbye." 359 00:19:37,220 --> 00:19:40,180 Um, and he took off his-- his pendant 360 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,080 and handed it to me. 361 00:19:43,099 --> 00:19:44,209 REPORTER: We have just learned from a briefing 362 00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:47,040 by sheriff's deputies that apparently 363 00:19:47,059 --> 00:19:49,049 39 bodies have been found. 364 00:19:49,069 --> 00:19:52,009 All of them apparently male. 365 00:19:54,099 --> 00:19:57,039 I knew they were thinking they were men, all men, 366 00:19:57,059 --> 00:19:59,159 because they all had short hair. 367 00:19:59,180 --> 00:20:02,000 And I knew the females had short hair. 368 00:20:06,099 --> 00:20:07,209 4th REPORTER: Now, the coroner's officials have 369 00:20:07,230 --> 00:20:09,110 stopped in the street; they are talking 370 00:20:09,130 --> 00:20:11,030 to members of the media. 371 00:20:11,049 --> 00:20:12,169 Several dozen of them now gathered 372 00:20:12,190 --> 00:20:14,140 outside the van's door, 373 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,220 trying to get word, any detail at all, 374 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,020 on this story. 375 00:20:18,039 --> 00:20:19,139 Peaceful. 376 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,050 That's the only way I can describe it, peaceful. 377 00:20:21,069 --> 00:20:23,219 We don't know what the cause of death is at this point. 378 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,210 REPORTER: What did the inside of the house look like? 379 00:20:25,230 --> 00:20:27,220 We have-- We have no idea. 380 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,060 FRANK: I heard a news report 381 00:20:31,079 --> 00:20:33,019 on the radio of 382 00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:37,109 "monastic group of men 383 00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:41,180 had been found dead." 384 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,020 Chills went up and down my spine. 385 00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:46,179 I thought, 386 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,200 "They've finally done it." 387 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,100 I knew it was them. 388 00:20:54,079 --> 00:20:56,069 REPORTER: Now, police are saying that 389 00:20:56,089 --> 00:20:59,109 these bodies were found in different rooms of the house. 390 00:20:59,130 --> 00:21:01,100 They were found lying prone, 391 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,059 with their hands at their sides, 392 00:21:03,079 --> 00:21:06,139 and they are saying that there were no signs of trauma. 393 00:21:07,130 --> 00:21:09,110 TOM BROKAW: 21 women, 18 men, 394 00:21:09,130 --> 00:21:11,070 all dressed in similar outfits. 395 00:21:11,089 --> 00:21:12,209 Apparently they all thought 396 00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:15,030 they were headed to Heaven in a spaceship. 397 00:21:15,049 --> 00:21:19,069 CALVIN VINE: This room here was the actual computer room, 398 00:21:19,089 --> 00:21:21,179 and there were two bodies in there. 399 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:26,020 Back in the far right-hand corner, 400 00:21:26,039 --> 00:21:28,079 there were four bodies back in there. 401 00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:34,999 And they were dressed in black slacks. 402 00:21:35,019 --> 00:21:36,999 Black Nike shoes. 403 00:21:37,019 --> 00:21:39,099 And most of them wore a wedding band 404 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,109 on their left hand. 405 00:21:42,130 --> 00:21:47,040 Most of them had $5.75 in their pockets. 406 00:21:49,220 --> 00:21:51,160 The $5.75 407 00:21:51,180 --> 00:21:54,220 has to do with the old Mark Twain story. 408 00:21:57,170 --> 00:22:00,080 Mark Twain said that $5.75 409 00:22:00,099 --> 00:22:04,109 was the cost to ride the tail of a comet to Heaven. 410 00:22:06,099 --> 00:22:09,029 MAN: The bodies have been dead for varying periods of time. 411 00:22:09,049 --> 00:22:11,079 Some of them look like 24-36 hours. 412 00:22:11,099 --> 00:22:14,159 Others look like three days, three-plus days. 413 00:22:14,180 --> 00:22:17,080 It appears there were... in three groups. 414 00:22:17,099 --> 00:22:20,019 First group went ahead with this plan, 415 00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:22,009 and the second group sort of assisted them, 416 00:22:22,029 --> 00:22:23,209 cleaned up after them, and covered them 417 00:22:23,230 --> 00:22:27,060 with this red cloth after they had died. 418 00:22:27,079 --> 00:22:29,099 And the third team helped the second team. 419 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,009 And then they were finally down to two people 420 00:22:32,029 --> 00:22:34,049 who were not shrouded with these sheets. 421 00:22:34,069 --> 00:22:36,129 We believe they were the last ones. 422 00:22:36,150 --> 00:22:38,130 They did have plastic bags over their heads. 423 00:22:40,019 --> 00:22:41,159 CALVIN: Cause of death was 424 00:22:41,180 --> 00:22:44,120 asphyxia by plastic bag, 425 00:22:44,140 --> 00:22:47,210 and contributing factor was the alcohol 426 00:22:47,230 --> 00:22:50,020 and the phenobarbital. 427 00:22:52,109 --> 00:22:55,129 Of interest was that Marshall Applewhite 428 00:22:55,150 --> 00:22:57,060 was not the last one to die. 429 00:22:57,079 --> 00:22:59,099 He was in the second group. 430 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,029 Upstairs was the huge master bedroom, 431 00:23:03,049 --> 00:23:07,019 and he was there alone in the king-sized bed. 432 00:23:17,069 --> 00:23:18,229 TOM BROKAW: For the families of the victims, 433 00:23:19,009 --> 00:23:20,189 news of these suicides, in many cases, 434 00:23:20,210 --> 00:23:22,140 that was the first they had heard 435 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,120 of their relatives in years. 436 00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:26,140 It was part of a Heaven's Gate credo. 437 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,070 No contact with outside family members. 438 00:23:29,089 --> 00:23:31,039 When you heard about what happened 439 00:23:31,059 --> 00:23:33,169 north of San Diego, did you know immediately? 440 00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:36,110 No, I didn't, umm, a friend of mine called me at work 441 00:23:36,130 --> 00:23:37,230 and started telling me, "You're not gonna believe 442 00:23:38,009 --> 00:23:39,179 what I'm seeing on TV." 443 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,190 And she mentioned the term "Father Do," 444 00:23:41,210 --> 00:23:43,190 and she mentioned the UFO and... 445 00:23:43,210 --> 00:23:45,220 - with the Hale-Bopp Comet. - Then you knew. 446 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,160 And then I went, "Oh, man," so I started 447 00:23:47,180 --> 00:23:49,070 making some phone calls, and I found out 448 00:23:49,089 --> 00:23:52,069 they'd shown my mom's picture and Herff's picture. 449 00:23:52,089 --> 00:23:55,019 - Sad. - It is, it really is. 450 00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:57,109 TERRIE: My mom was such a special lady, 451 00:23:57,130 --> 00:23:59,210 and she had such a genuine heart 452 00:23:59,230 --> 00:24:02,070 and so much compassion for people. 453 00:24:03,170 --> 00:24:05,230 And she would've never taken the group 454 00:24:06,009 --> 00:24:07,219 to the conclusion that it came to. 455 00:24:10,049 --> 00:24:13,139 Do was so caught up in his own head 456 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,070 and his own narcissistic beliefs. 457 00:24:16,089 --> 00:24:18,229 I know that the former members don't feel that way. 458 00:24:19,009 --> 00:24:23,029 And I try really hard to honor what they believe. 459 00:24:23,049 --> 00:24:25,119 Uh, and-- but my own belief 460 00:24:25,140 --> 00:24:28,080 is that they might all still be with us, 461 00:24:28,099 --> 00:24:31,069 had Do gotten the mental assistance he needed. 462 00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:38,130 The moment I was dreading most of my life... 463 00:24:38,150 --> 00:24:40,220 had finally happened. 464 00:24:42,180 --> 00:24:44,160 DO: SLVODY was also out of the classroom 465 00:24:44,180 --> 00:24:48,100 for a while, and she knew that this was where her life was. 466 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,039 Then she came back to life when she had an opportunity 467 00:24:51,059 --> 00:24:53,999 to return to the classroom. 468 00:24:54,019 --> 00:24:56,189 ROBERT: Leaves an awful big hole in your life. 469 00:24:56,210 --> 00:24:58,120 ALICE: And it's been a big enough hole 470 00:24:58,140 --> 00:25:01,020 for three years, but now that hole is never gonna heal, 471 00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:03,179 because she's... she's gone. 472 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,140 ROBERT: I mean, the kid's supposed to bury the old folks, 473 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,180 not the other way around. 474 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,070 ALICE: Every day, you think about her, you know? 475 00:25:10,089 --> 00:25:13,169 What would she be like at 48? 476 00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:17,040 What we're about to do is certainly nothing to... 477 00:25:17,059 --> 00:25:20,049 think negatively about. 478 00:25:20,069 --> 00:25:22,169 We're all choosing of our own free will 479 00:25:22,190 --> 00:25:26,000 to go to The Next Level with Ti and Do. 480 00:25:26,019 --> 00:25:28,129 REPORTER: In an odd footnote, one of the dead has been 481 00:25:28,150 --> 00:25:31,060 identified as the brother of actress Nichelle Nichols, 482 00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:33,059 the actress who played Lieutenant Uhura, 483 00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:35,089 in the "Star Trek" television series, 484 00:25:35,109 --> 00:25:37,129 much of it set on a spaceship. 485 00:25:37,150 --> 00:25:39,130 NICHELLE NICHOLS: I respect my brother's wishes. 486 00:25:39,150 --> 00:25:42,090 And I respect him as a human being. 487 00:25:42,109 --> 00:25:46,099 I respect him as an intelligent human being. 488 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,079 We all feel very emotional about, um... 489 00:25:50,099 --> 00:25:52,019 the gift that we've been given. 490 00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:54,129 And... 491 00:25:54,150 --> 00:25:57,220 I'm the happiest person in the world. 492 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,090 I think Sawyer is the one 493 00:26:00,109 --> 00:26:02,179 that actually first used this term. 494 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,070 Do always wanted to go out with a splash. 495 00:26:05,089 --> 00:26:07,059 [distant clamor] 496 00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:09,169 And right from the beginning, the whole thing is 497 00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:11,130 they're gonna have this Demonstration 498 00:26:11,150 --> 00:26:13,070 where they're gonna be assassinated 499 00:26:13,089 --> 00:26:15,049 in front of thousands of people, 500 00:26:15,069 --> 00:26:17,039 and this is gonna be worldwide news, 501 00:26:17,059 --> 00:26:20,019 and it's gonna be on TV all around the world 502 00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:24,009 when the spacecraft comes down and picks them up. 503 00:26:24,029 --> 00:26:26,029 As the old saying goes, you know, 504 00:26:26,049 --> 00:26:29,059 the worst death of all is death by obscurity. 505 00:26:29,079 --> 00:26:31,069 So, by killing themselves, 506 00:26:31,089 --> 00:26:34,129 they ensured their immortality in a sense. 507 00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:41,140 BENJAMIN: The public response to Heaven's Gate 508 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,230 was dismissal of these people as idiots, 509 00:26:44,009 --> 00:26:47,149 as brainwashed, as fools, as a joke. 510 00:26:47,170 --> 00:26:49,060 You know who else tried to teach 511 00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:50,229 a bunch of Dumbos to fly? 512 00:26:51,009 --> 00:26:53,109 The leader of the Heaven's Gate religious cult. 513 00:26:53,130 --> 00:26:55,030 [laughter] 514 00:26:55,049 --> 00:26:56,209 Who told his followers that they could all 515 00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:58,180 fly away from Earth on a spaceship 516 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,230 by committing mass suicide. 517 00:27:01,009 --> 00:27:02,069 Whoo! Yay, religion! 518 00:27:02,089 --> 00:27:03,999 Okay, no, no, don't... 519 00:27:04,019 --> 00:27:05,229 [cheering] 520 00:27:06,009 --> 00:27:07,159 Ted! Ted! Whoo! 521 00:27:07,180 --> 00:27:10,150 We made it! We made it, whoo! 522 00:27:10,170 --> 00:27:12,000 [cheers] 523 00:27:12,019 --> 00:27:14,079 Tell me, are there any regrets? 524 00:27:14,099 --> 00:27:17,089 Yeah, the castration thing. 525 00:27:18,220 --> 00:27:22,120 I was way off on that one, Ted. 526 00:27:22,140 --> 00:27:25,090 It turns out it had nothing to do with anything. 527 00:27:25,109 --> 00:27:27,129 And in fact, when we got here, 528 00:27:27,150 --> 00:27:31,080 everyone just looked at me like, "Applewhite, you nutball." 529 00:27:31,099 --> 00:27:32,999 Yeah, but he's our nutball. 530 00:27:33,019 --> 00:27:34,159 - He's our nutball. - Yeah! 531 00:27:34,180 --> 00:27:37,000 SAWYER: I was scared of going public, 532 00:27:37,019 --> 00:27:39,049 but I felt like I-- I needed to... 533 00:27:39,069 --> 00:27:41,089 I knew that they weren't getting 534 00:27:41,109 --> 00:27:43,119 the most accurate reporting on them. 535 00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:44,230 LARRY KING: Joining us now from Seattle is 536 00:27:45,009 --> 00:27:46,209 Andrew, a member of Heaven's Gate 537 00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:49,200 for 18 years, from 1975 to 1993-- 538 00:27:49,220 --> 00:27:51,130 that's an assumed name, by the way. 539 00:27:51,150 --> 00:27:53,140 In New York is Sawyer, also an assumed name, 540 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,220 and he was a member of Heaven's Gate. 541 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,200 What do you make of this, Sawyer? 542 00:27:56,220 --> 00:27:59,180 Well, see, the group was looking to leave the planet, 543 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,030 and they were gonna do it in any way 544 00:28:01,049 --> 00:28:02,169 that they possibly could. 545 00:28:02,190 --> 00:28:04,230 Okay, so they were thinking, brainstorming constantly 546 00:28:05,009 --> 00:28:07,179 on how that might occur, so that they could then-- 547 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,050 - their souls could then... - I see. 548 00:28:09,069 --> 00:28:10,159 ...move into The Next Level. 549 00:28:10,180 --> 00:28:12,170 If you had stayed a few more years, 550 00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:14,220 would you have killed yourself with them? 551 00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:18,089 I doubt it. I... I mean... 552 00:28:18,109 --> 00:28:19,219 - Sawyer, if... - It was a shock to me. 553 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,170 You left in '94, that's not too long ago. 554 00:28:22,190 --> 00:28:25,110 Would you have killed yourself with them, Sawyer? 555 00:28:25,130 --> 00:28:27,170 Well, surprisingly as it may seem, 556 00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:32,020 I... had-- at the time, I thought I would, yes. 557 00:28:34,099 --> 00:28:36,109 FRANK: The people who covered it, in general, 558 00:28:36,130 --> 00:28:42,100 weren't of a mind to dig deeper with it. 559 00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:45,009 [music] 560 00:28:47,039 --> 00:28:49,079 MAN: This is a failed episode from "Star Trek" 561 00:28:49,099 --> 00:28:52,189 that Gene Roddenberry would put his thumbs down to. 562 00:28:52,210 --> 00:28:54,200 2nd MAN: What we're talking about in this case 563 00:28:54,220 --> 00:28:58,210 is really mental illness disguised as religion. 564 00:28:58,230 --> 00:29:00,220 3rd MAN: I just think it's something we've gotta let people 565 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,150 practice under the First Amendment. 566 00:29:03,170 --> 00:29:05,220 These people were adults, they did this freely, 567 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,100 and from all we can gather, they're now happy. 568 00:29:10,069 --> 00:29:12,059 4th MAN: I think only a fraction of people 569 00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:15,019 would really fall for something so bizarre. 570 00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:18,139 There-- There-- There is an underlying desperation. 571 00:29:19,210 --> 00:29:21,170 MATT LAUER: When you hear the word "cult" used 572 00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:23,230 to describe this group, Will, how do you feel about it? 573 00:29:24,009 --> 00:29:25,109 Just 15 seconds, if you will. 574 00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:28,030 If you look up the definition of cult, 575 00:29:28,049 --> 00:29:30,049 the Republican Party is a cult. 576 00:29:30,069 --> 00:29:31,169 - [Matt laughing] - I mean, you know, 577 00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:33,220 there are so many... 578 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,030 you know, you attach a label to all this, 579 00:29:36,049 --> 00:29:38,029 and you read the labels, 580 00:29:38,049 --> 00:29:40,009 and you don't get behind and look 581 00:29:40,029 --> 00:29:41,219 at what's really going on deep. 582 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,110 We've been compared to Jonestown, 583 00:29:43,130 --> 00:29:44,210 we've been compared to... 584 00:29:44,230 --> 00:29:46,100 MAN: Well, now you're gonna be compared to Jonestown. 585 00:29:46,119 --> 00:29:48,019 And what do you mean, "we"? You're not part of this anymore. 586 00:29:48,039 --> 00:29:49,069 In a sense, I am. 587 00:29:49,089 --> 00:29:52,029 I left, but when you see those people, 588 00:29:52,049 --> 00:29:53,149 you reexperience that. 589 00:29:53,170 --> 00:29:56,090 It will always be with you. This will always be with me. 590 00:29:56,109 --> 00:29:58,069 I don't disclaim it. 591 00:29:58,089 --> 00:29:59,199 STEVE: I got a call from a producer 592 00:29:59,220 --> 00:30:02,080 who had just interviewed Dick Joslyn, 593 00:30:02,099 --> 00:30:04,079 and said, "We think he's gonna kill himself. 594 00:30:04,099 --> 00:30:05,229 Can you help him?" 595 00:30:09,059 --> 00:30:11,189 In all of my interventions, 596 00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:15,030 the goal isn't to get the person out 597 00:30:15,049 --> 00:30:17,199 or to force the person to agree with me. 598 00:30:17,220 --> 00:30:21,110 The goal is to empower them to think for themselves. 599 00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:29,040 WOMAN: Is that today's paper? 600 00:30:29,059 --> 00:30:31,009 DICK: No, that's an older... 601 00:30:31,210 --> 00:30:34,040 STEVE: Well, as I've discovered in my work, 602 00:30:34,059 --> 00:30:37,219 the vast number of people who get involved with groups 603 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,000 walk out of them. 604 00:30:40,019 --> 00:30:41,169 But just because you physically leave, 605 00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:43,000 doesn't mean the group 606 00:30:43,019 --> 00:30:44,169 - gets out of your head. - Right. 607 00:30:44,190 --> 00:30:46,190 I mean, I've been out of the group seven years, 608 00:30:46,210 --> 00:30:50,050 and I'm very aware that I haven't ever processed 609 00:30:50,069 --> 00:30:53,099 anything of it, other than just my own 610 00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:55,009 in-the-middle-of-the-night struggles. 611 00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:57,149 And I'm also aware that I-- I'm just like, 612 00:30:57,170 --> 00:30:59,010 I feel dysfunctional. 613 00:30:59,029 --> 00:31:00,129 - Mm-hmm. - And that's why I'm here, Steve, 614 00:31:00,150 --> 00:31:02,090 that's because there are all these issues 615 00:31:02,109 --> 00:31:05,159 that make me feel like something is... 616 00:31:05,180 --> 00:31:08,120 is keeping me from readjusting, 617 00:31:08,140 --> 00:31:10,170 and being a happy person, and functional in the world. 618 00:31:10,190 --> 00:31:13,060 And I know that I've got stuff to give. 619 00:31:13,079 --> 00:31:14,199 - Mm-hmm. - And that process 620 00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:17,130 of the will emerging. 621 00:31:17,150 --> 00:31:21,190 - Mm-hmm. - And-- and in spite of how... 622 00:31:21,210 --> 00:31:25,010 solidly it's been put down, it still raises up. 623 00:31:25,029 --> 00:31:27,189 It's like a little plant breaking through concrete, 624 00:31:27,210 --> 00:31:31,190 that the power of the... of the individual mind 625 00:31:31,210 --> 00:31:36,060 is saying, I'm sorry, I just can't buy this anymore. 626 00:31:36,079 --> 00:31:40,139 And why did I do that, and why didn't my Classmates, 627 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,210 who were such richly gifted people? 628 00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:49,219 STEVE: You're a very strong person 629 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,100 and you saw through it. 630 00:31:51,119 --> 00:31:53,059 Thank God. 631 00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:56,029 And we're gonna sign off on... 632 00:31:56,049 --> 00:31:59,189 - Bye, see you next time. - ...May 28th, 1997. 633 00:31:59,210 --> 00:32:02,030 See you next time. 634 00:32:09,049 --> 00:32:12,209 My frustration with the media is pretty universal, 635 00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:17,110 that they tend to want sensationalized elements 636 00:32:17,130 --> 00:32:19,120 without getting into the nitty-gritty 637 00:32:19,140 --> 00:32:22,200 of how this can happen to intelligent, educated people 638 00:32:22,220 --> 00:32:25,110 from good homes. 639 00:32:25,130 --> 00:32:29,150 So, it's again, this fundamental attribution error 640 00:32:29,170 --> 00:32:32,100 of, like, "what's-- what's wrong with these people," 641 00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:35,109 instead of saying they were just programmed 642 00:32:35,130 --> 00:32:38,190 and influenced in a systematic way. 643 00:32:41,089 --> 00:32:43,119 Dick Joslyn says that he is aware 644 00:32:43,140 --> 00:32:45,020 of at least a half-dozen members 645 00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:47,069 who plan to do the same thing in the future. 646 00:32:47,089 --> 00:32:49,009 Wow, he said that just today? 647 00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:50,229 Yeah, just-- we just got this on the wire this morning. 648 00:32:51,009 --> 00:32:53,029 Yes, well, that doesn't surprise me, either, 649 00:32:53,049 --> 00:32:55,149 and I wouldn't be surprised if there were more. 650 00:33:05,140 --> 00:33:07,180 When I think of my brother, 651 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,160 I think of him with sad brown eyes. 652 00:33:10,180 --> 00:33:12,150 And although this is in black and white, 653 00:33:12,170 --> 00:33:15,040 this is very typical of him. 654 00:33:17,180 --> 00:33:20,000 I was watching TV one night, 655 00:33:20,019 --> 00:33:23,049 and I saw pictures of the 39 people. 656 00:33:23,069 --> 00:33:28,139 They were showing tennis shoes with purple shrouds over them. 657 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,040 And so, I got a hold of my aunt. 658 00:33:31,059 --> 00:33:35,019 You know, I said, did you see the mass suicide today? 659 00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:37,009 And she's like, "Oh yeah, those people are crazy." 660 00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:39,169 And I said, that's the cult Jimmy was in. 661 00:33:43,170 --> 00:33:45,220 Five weeks after the mass suicide, 662 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,090 I got a call from my aunt, and she was crying. 663 00:33:49,109 --> 00:33:51,039 He had sent her a letter saying, 664 00:33:51,059 --> 00:33:53,129 "By the time you get this, I should be dead." 665 00:33:59,089 --> 00:34:03,129 And she sent my cousin's husband over. 666 00:34:03,150 --> 00:34:06,210 And when he knocked on the door, he heard the gun go off. 667 00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:09,010 [gunshot echoing] 668 00:34:13,130 --> 00:34:18,100 He left his farewell, and then he left pictures 669 00:34:18,119 --> 00:34:20,159 that he had cut out of a magazine 670 00:34:20,179 --> 00:34:23,199 of all of his former cult members, 671 00:34:23,219 --> 00:34:26,069 of all of his former Class members. 672 00:34:26,090 --> 00:34:28,130 And he had tagged them underneath 673 00:34:28,150 --> 00:34:30,010 with their ODY names. 674 00:34:34,130 --> 00:34:36,190 And he drew an image 675 00:34:36,210 --> 00:34:39,230 of the 39 of them being lifted up. 676 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,030 LESLIE STAHL: Wayne Cooke, a Heaven's Gate dropout 677 00:34:48,050 --> 00:34:49,100 who still believed, 678 00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:51,099 appeared on "60 Minutes" in March 679 00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:54,179 to explain why his wife and 38 other Classmates 680 00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:56,039 committed suicide. 681 00:34:59,130 --> 00:35:01,030 KELLY COOKE: The only reason I was on "60 Minutes," 682 00:35:01,050 --> 00:35:04,130 is I accompanied my father to these things. 683 00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:07,170 LESLIE: Your mother was one of the 39 684 00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:10,200 who committed suicide with that group. 685 00:35:10,219 --> 00:35:14,069 Now, they think that she's up in a spacecraft. 686 00:35:14,090 --> 00:35:15,180 Do you believe that? 687 00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:18,009 [sighs] This'll be very difficult 688 00:35:18,030 --> 00:35:20,180 for people to understand, but this is something 689 00:35:20,199 --> 00:35:23,099 she worked all of her life to accomplish. 690 00:35:24,190 --> 00:35:26,190 This-- she graduated. 691 00:35:26,210 --> 00:35:28,120 LESLIE: You wish you had gone with them? 692 00:35:28,139 --> 00:35:31,999 I wish I had the strength to have remained, 693 00:35:32,019 --> 00:35:33,159 to have gained the kind of control 694 00:35:33,179 --> 00:35:36,169 through Do's help, Ti's help, 695 00:35:36,190 --> 00:35:38,160 to have stuck it out 696 00:35:38,179 --> 00:35:40,199 and continued to be a part of that group. 697 00:35:40,219 --> 00:35:42,069 Yes. 698 00:35:43,139 --> 00:35:45,199 KELLY: I was just pleading with him 699 00:35:45,219 --> 00:35:49,199 to live this life with-- with me 700 00:35:49,219 --> 00:35:51,099 in this world, you know? 701 00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:53,189 Not-- Not to abandon it. 702 00:35:53,210 --> 00:35:55,050 [sighs] 703 00:35:56,130 --> 00:35:59,080 He was living in Vegas then, with Chuck. 704 00:36:04,070 --> 00:36:07,160 I just could tell it was gonna happen. 705 00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:11,029 DAVID TAYLOR: After the suicides, 706 00:36:11,050 --> 00:36:12,210 we interviewed Chuck Humphrey, 707 00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:15,040 and he gave me this t-shirt. 708 00:36:15,059 --> 00:36:16,209 And true to his own beliefs, 709 00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:21,020 it says, "Heaven's Gate-- what if they're right?" 710 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,120 Hi, my name is RKKODY, 711 00:36:26,139 --> 00:36:28,209 and by the time that you see this tape, 712 00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:31,210 um, I'll be gone. 713 00:36:31,230 --> 00:36:33,050 KELLY: I had been up all night. 714 00:36:33,070 --> 00:36:36,080 Doorbell rang, and it was a FedEx package. 715 00:36:36,099 --> 00:36:38,169 I open it up, and it was a video. 716 00:36:38,190 --> 00:36:40,130 I'm happy. [chuckles] 717 00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:44,210 And I... want very much to follow my Classmates 718 00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:49,090 and... my teachers, Ti and Do. 719 00:36:49,110 --> 00:36:51,010 MAN: It took about three hours 720 00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:52,130 for San Diego County sheriff detectives 721 00:36:52,150 --> 00:36:55,150 to zero in on this Encinitas hotel, 722 00:36:55,170 --> 00:36:58,210 and this particular hotel room, room 222. 723 00:36:58,230 --> 00:37:02,140 This is where two people tried to commit suicide. 724 00:37:02,159 --> 00:37:07,019 I got a call, someone was alive still. 725 00:37:08,130 --> 00:37:10,230 I don't think I've ever experienced 726 00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:14,170 such a confusing emotion to have. 727 00:37:14,190 --> 00:37:16,190 You know, maybe my father's alive. 728 00:37:16,210 --> 00:37:20,020 But is that good? I don't know, you know? 729 00:37:22,070 --> 00:37:24,140 I mean, it went back and forth a couple times, 730 00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:27,159 like being on a rollercoaster for several hours, 731 00:37:27,179 --> 00:37:31,039 no sleep, just insane. 732 00:37:32,030 --> 00:37:34,150 MAN: This is where two people tried to commit suicide. 733 00:37:34,170 --> 00:37:36,110 One of them, former Heaven's Gate member, 734 00:37:36,130 --> 00:37:38,230 55-year-old Wayne Cooke, died here, 735 00:37:39,010 --> 00:37:41,070 and his body was removed late this afternoon. 736 00:37:41,090 --> 00:37:43,220 His partner, 57-year-old Charles Humphrey 737 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,060 was found on the floor, barely alive. 738 00:37:47,130 --> 00:37:50,210 Chuck reflexively pulled the plastic bag, 739 00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:53,100 and the drugs didn't kill him. 740 00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:56,019 JASON: This'll sound morbid, but I felt bad. 741 00:37:56,039 --> 00:37:57,229 I was like, I knew he wanted to go. 742 00:37:58,010 --> 00:38:00,140 And then, he wakes up chained to a hospital bed, 743 00:38:00,159 --> 00:38:01,219 you know, and he's like, "This doesn't look 744 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,170 anything like a spacecraft." 745 00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:07,189 Our objective was to leave the vehicles 746 00:38:07,210 --> 00:38:09,030 and catch up with the Class, 747 00:38:09,050 --> 00:38:10,150 and catch up with our Older Member. 748 00:38:10,170 --> 00:38:14,040 I-- I tried my best to do it at this time, at failed. 749 00:38:14,059 --> 00:38:16,079 Mr. Humphrey, would you ever attempt suicide again? 750 00:38:16,099 --> 00:38:18,049 - I don't know. - You don't know? 751 00:38:18,070 --> 00:38:21,100 I can't answer that question. 752 00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:23,159 JASON: Chuck emailed me, and he's like, 753 00:38:23,179 --> 00:38:25,049 "I'm going out to this spot. 754 00:38:26,090 --> 00:38:28,010 I'll see you upstairs," essentially. 755 00:38:29,179 --> 00:38:31,069 I knew exactly where he was going. 756 00:38:31,090 --> 00:38:33,160 It was a spot we'd camped at. 757 00:38:33,179 --> 00:38:35,119 He knew I was the only person 758 00:38:35,139 --> 00:38:38,199 who-- who wouldn't freak out and try to stop him. 759 00:38:44,070 --> 00:38:46,000 I mean, he was always adamant 760 00:38:46,019 --> 00:38:48,129 that he was 100% supportive of what they did, 761 00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:50,100 and obviously, he tried to follow in their footsteps, 762 00:38:50,119 --> 00:38:51,189 not once, but twice. 763 00:38:51,210 --> 00:38:56,130 In their minds, Ti and Do were the Second Coming, 764 00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:59,080 just different form. 765 00:39:01,099 --> 00:39:05,049 So, how do you tell them 766 00:39:05,070 --> 00:39:07,140 that the Second Coming is wrong? [chuckles] 767 00:39:18,190 --> 00:39:21,000 ROBERT: Shortly after the suicides happen, 768 00:39:21,019 --> 00:39:24,209 there was this woman, Lee Ann Wolfe, she called me up, 769 00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:27,170 and she identified herself as an ex-member 770 00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:29,050 and told me that she was just living 771 00:39:29,070 --> 00:39:30,200 up on Flathead Lake here... 772 00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:35,129 and kinda put me in touch with a lot of other people. 773 00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:38,210 And we have the reunion in 1998. 774 00:39:41,079 --> 00:39:43,129 TERRIE: In 1998, out in Montana, 775 00:39:43,150 --> 00:39:45,060 there was a Heaven's Gate reunion. 776 00:39:45,079 --> 00:39:46,179 Rob flew me out there, 777 00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:49,999 and a bunch of other people, ex-Heaven's Gaters. 778 00:39:50,019 --> 00:39:52,009 ROBERT: People getting along. 779 00:39:52,030 --> 00:39:55,120 Lorraine remaining 100% true believer. 780 00:39:58,159 --> 00:40:01,099 It is a very difficult trip. 781 00:40:01,119 --> 00:40:04,169 It's a very difficult thing to do. 782 00:40:04,190 --> 00:40:09,010 But it had such wonderful, beautiful endings, 783 00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:12,190 that it is all very much worthwhile. 784 00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:19,090 I believe that TiDo know my mind. 785 00:40:19,110 --> 00:40:22,220 And her daughter Sharon was the very first follower. 786 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,200 SHARON NELSON: At the beginning, they were sort of humble. 787 00:40:26,219 --> 00:40:28,139 You know, two people out there in the wilderness 788 00:40:28,159 --> 00:40:30,169 trying to figure out what they're supposed to do. 789 00:40:30,190 --> 00:40:35,070 And you must understand that Marshall Herff Applewhite 790 00:40:35,090 --> 00:40:39,070 has a complex, and it's called the messiah complex. 791 00:40:39,090 --> 00:40:41,070 Regardless of how they left here, 792 00:40:41,090 --> 00:40:42,230 it doesn't matter. 793 00:40:44,070 --> 00:40:47,070 To me, they're on a higher level of understanding. 794 00:40:47,090 --> 00:40:50,020 Absolutely convinced that all of her Classmates 795 00:40:50,039 --> 00:40:51,149 were out in The Next Level. 796 00:40:51,170 --> 00:40:54,230 Dick Joslyn at this point is convinced 797 00:40:55,010 --> 00:40:57,150 that he had been brainwashed, but here they are, 798 00:40:57,170 --> 00:40:59,200 hanging out on very good terms. 799 00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:03,039 It was very cathartic 800 00:41:03,059 --> 00:41:05,159 for most people, I think, who went there. 801 00:41:08,179 --> 00:41:11,169 But then, Terrie Nettles had brought copies 802 00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:14,210 of these letters that her mom had written her. 803 00:41:17,099 --> 00:41:21,089 So, Terrie read excerpts from these letters 804 00:41:21,110 --> 00:41:23,080 to these people in the group, 805 00:41:23,099 --> 00:41:27,159 and they were, all of them, absolutely dumbfounded 806 00:41:27,179 --> 00:41:29,999 when they heard 807 00:41:30,019 --> 00:41:32,999 that while they're being told, 808 00:41:33,019 --> 00:41:35,069 "you gotta give up your family, 809 00:41:35,090 --> 00:41:37,130 "and you're never gonna see them again, 810 00:41:37,150 --> 00:41:39,190 and you can't have any human attachments," 811 00:41:39,210 --> 00:41:42,080 and all of that, and meanwhile, 812 00:41:42,099 --> 00:41:46,019 Ti has been writing home and signing letters 813 00:41:46,039 --> 00:41:48,199 like "Love, Mom, love always," 814 00:41:48,219 --> 00:41:52,009 and giving advice about how her daughter 815 00:41:52,030 --> 00:41:54,150 should conform to the ways of the world. 816 00:41:54,170 --> 00:42:00,200 The date on here was August 13th, 1982. 817 00:42:00,219 --> 00:42:03,179 She says, "Be good, strive for goodness, 818 00:42:03,199 --> 00:42:07,039 "and by all means, conform to society 819 00:42:07,059 --> 00:42:09,039 so that you will have peace of mind." 820 00:42:09,059 --> 00:42:12,009 I'm sorry, that was not their MO. 821 00:42:12,030 --> 00:42:13,210 They didn't believe in causing violence 822 00:42:13,230 --> 00:42:15,180 or anything like that. 823 00:42:15,199 --> 00:42:18,179 But by all means, conform to society? 824 00:42:18,199 --> 00:42:21,039 That was not what they were doing. 825 00:42:22,219 --> 00:42:24,089 That was code. 826 00:42:24,110 --> 00:42:25,230 I look back on that, that was code, 827 00:42:26,010 --> 00:42:27,220 but I didn't know it at the time. 828 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,220 But I just feel like she wanted out of the group. 829 00:42:32,210 --> 00:42:34,210 ROBERT: When Terrie read those passages, 830 00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:37,070 I was really shocked. 831 00:42:37,090 --> 00:42:40,090 And all the members, absolutely across the board, 832 00:42:40,110 --> 00:42:43,070 they were just like-- not just flabbergasted, 833 00:42:43,090 --> 00:42:46,100 but a couple of 'em were just, like, pissed off. 834 00:42:46,119 --> 00:42:49,149 JANJA: During that whole time, Ti was writing letters 835 00:42:49,170 --> 00:42:52,190 to her daughter back in Texas and telling her to, like, 836 00:42:52,210 --> 00:42:54,220 do the right thing, go to college. 837 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,140 [laughing] You know, and so you think, 838 00:42:56,159 --> 00:42:59,999 okay, if this lady really believed what she's saying, 839 00:43:00,019 --> 00:43:03,069 to me, that is the most duplicitous example 840 00:43:03,090 --> 00:43:05,170 of sort of the con. 841 00:43:10,159 --> 00:43:13,189 TERRIE: People were angry, 842 00:43:13,210 --> 00:43:16,200 and I just kinda wanted to slither out of there. 843 00:43:16,219 --> 00:43:20,079 They weren't angry at me, and I knew that. 844 00:43:20,099 --> 00:43:24,009 Looks to me like Ti really wanted to go home, 845 00:43:24,030 --> 00:43:27,130 but at the same time, she's probably thinking, 846 00:43:27,150 --> 00:43:30,060 "Here I am in this group, I have this comfortable life, 847 00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:33,179 "or I go home, and I'm constantly barraged by, 848 00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:36,179 "'Why did you run away? Why did you abandon your kids?' 849 00:43:36,199 --> 00:43:40,229 "Hm, I think it's gonna be easier for me to stay here 850 00:43:41,010 --> 00:43:43,110 "and die in this group than it is to go home 851 00:43:43,130 --> 00:43:45,230 and deal with all of that." 852 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,080 She got in so deep and into it, 853 00:43:49,099 --> 00:43:51,229 that she wasn't able to turn around. 854 00:44:07,210 --> 00:44:11,150 FRANK: When I left the Class, left the group, 855 00:44:11,170 --> 00:44:16,100 and tried to navigate my life 856 00:44:16,119 --> 00:44:18,999 as a citizen at large, 857 00:44:19,019 --> 00:44:22,229 didn't really know who I was. 858 00:44:27,050 --> 00:44:32,040 I'm finally at a point where I could say 859 00:44:32,059 --> 00:44:34,189 I want to be free. 860 00:44:34,210 --> 00:44:37,010 I want to travel the country, 861 00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:40,030 I want to roam free. 862 00:44:40,050 --> 00:44:42,090 So, I got a van. 863 00:44:42,110 --> 00:44:45,010 I'm gonna be on the road, 864 00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:49,030 and I'll be learning to have fun... 865 00:44:50,070 --> 00:44:54,170 like I haven't allowed myself to. 866 00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:03,149 She was the love of my life. 867 00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:11,089 I'm sure I will. 868 00:46:20,090 --> 00:46:22,110 SAWYER: I worked with Frank a number of times. 869 00:46:22,130 --> 00:46:25,150 His name in the group was ANDODY, A-N-D-O-D-Y. 870 00:46:25,170 --> 00:46:30,150 And Erika's name in the group was CHKODY, C-H-K-O-D-Y. 871 00:46:30,170 --> 00:46:34,220 And she got that name by taking the name "Check," 872 00:46:35,010 --> 00:46:36,120 like "check partner." 873 00:46:36,139 --> 00:46:38,029 They're both beautiful souls. 874 00:46:44,219 --> 00:46:49,199 I... I feel like Sawyer is... 875 00:46:49,219 --> 00:46:53,129 is stuck. 876 00:47:22,070 --> 00:47:24,070 SAWYER: I don't feel guilt. I feel like 877 00:47:24,090 --> 00:47:28,210 I flunked a test, I flunked my test, 878 00:47:28,230 --> 00:47:31,010 and that I could have graduated with them. 879 00:47:31,030 --> 00:47:33,050 I had the capacity to do that. 880 00:47:33,070 --> 00:47:35,060 I believe that 100%. 881 00:47:38,059 --> 00:47:39,209 Do left the door open, 882 00:47:39,230 --> 00:47:42,210 and so there's nobody that can close it. 883 00:47:42,230 --> 00:47:44,220 Only he can close it, 884 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,140 when he decides that it's time. 885 00:47:50,059 --> 00:47:52,049 And then we won't be talking about this anymore. 886 00:47:57,219 --> 00:48:00,109 [Aimee Mann, "Save Me"] 887 00:48:02,039 --> 00:48:04,059 JANJA: I think there are two lessons 888 00:48:04,079 --> 00:48:06,079 of the Heaven's Gate story. 889 00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:10,169 One is to not be judgmental. 890 00:48:10,190 --> 00:48:12,000 You know, everybody wants to think, 891 00:48:12,019 --> 00:48:13,099 "Oh, those are those crazy people. 892 00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:14,199 That's-- I would never do that." 893 00:48:14,219 --> 00:48:17,099 Mm, not so fast. 894 00:48:19,010 --> 00:48:21,020 But I suppose the most important lesson 895 00:48:21,039 --> 00:48:23,219 is to be careful. 896 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,100 We tend to look for these easy answers, 897 00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:29,169 and I think it's important to remember 898 00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:32,100 that nobody has all the answers. 899 00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:36,009 And once you turn that over to someone, 900 00:48:36,030 --> 00:48:38,220 you put yourself at great risk. 901 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:43,110 ♪ Save me ♪ 902 00:48:43,130 --> 00:48:46,030 ♪ Come on and ♪ 903 00:48:46,050 --> 00:48:49,110 ♪ Save Me ♪ 904 00:48:49,130 --> 00:48:52,010 DEB: It's an ongoing puzzle in my life, 905 00:48:52,030 --> 00:48:54,030 where I'm always going to wonder, 906 00:48:54,050 --> 00:48:57,050 was there something that I could have done? 907 00:48:58,210 --> 00:49:00,100 KELLY: I knew they loved me. 908 00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:02,999 I just didn't trust that they knew how to love me. 909 00:49:03,019 --> 00:49:05,029 ♪ They could never love anyone ♪ 910 00:49:05,050 --> 00:49:08,180 I don't know if you ever get over it, really. 911 00:49:08,199 --> 00:49:10,109 JASON: Some people are probably still upset 912 00:49:10,130 --> 00:49:13,030 by losing the people that they lost. 913 00:49:13,050 --> 00:49:14,190 And the only thing I can say is that 914 00:49:14,210 --> 00:49:17,170 they really, truly are in a better place. 915 00:49:17,190 --> 00:49:18,190 It's true. 916 00:49:18,210 --> 00:49:21,200 ♪ You know what it's like ♪ 917 00:49:23,150 --> 00:49:25,160 DO: They say that we're a hoax, 918 00:49:25,179 --> 00:49:30,999 say that we're just two misguided, 919 00:49:31,019 --> 00:49:33,159 insane creatures, 920 00:49:33,179 --> 00:49:37,179 and that these poor misguided individuals 921 00:49:37,199 --> 00:49:40,029 and others like them are-- are endeavoring 922 00:49:40,050 --> 00:49:41,180 to do this thing. 923 00:49:41,199 --> 00:49:44,059 They're stronger now. 924 00:49:44,079 --> 00:49:46,069 They have rid themselves more 925 00:49:46,090 --> 00:49:48,200 of the garbage they have collected. 926 00:49:48,219 --> 00:49:52,229 If we even turned out to not be what we were, 927 00:49:53,010 --> 00:49:55,130 they are ten times what they have ever been, 928 00:49:55,150 --> 00:49:57,100 and they know it. 929 00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:00,009 [song continues] 930 00:50:09,179 --> 00:50:12,009 ♪ Come on and ♪ 931 00:50:12,030 --> 00:50:16,050 ♪ Save me ♪ 932 00:50:16,070 --> 00:50:18,200 ♪ Why don't you ♪ 933 00:50:18,219 --> 00:50:21,999 ♪ Save me ♪ 934 00:50:36,079 --> 00:50:38,209 ♪ Come on and ♪ 935 00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:43,200 ♪ Save me ♪ 936 00:50:43,219 --> 00:50:47,059 ♪ From the ranks of the freaks ♪ 937 00:50:47,079 --> 00:50:51,099 ♪ Who suspect they could never love anyone ♪ 938 00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:54,009 ♪ Except the freaks ♪ 939 00:50:54,030 --> 00:50:57,110 ♪ Who could never love anyone ♪♪