♪tender ethereal music♪
[Orna VO] Most couples therapies are around crises,
and helping a couple unpack a certain...
pattern that they got stuck in.
♪♪♪
It can become like a vortex,
around which the couple revolves.
♪♪♪
So what I try to do is figure out what else is there.
♪♪♪
And that scares people.
But there's a saying in the couples therapy world that to do
real work, you have to block the exits,
and stay in.
-Hi! -Hi!
-Hello! -Yay!
[Orna VO] So you have to tolerate a lot of messy,
confusing, scary, and inappropriate things.
♪♪♪
Otherwise, you're not...
touching new material.
♪♪♪
[Jessica] Okay.
-Bye, guys! -[Boris] Thank you.
-[Jessica] Bye. -Bye.
[whispering] Thank you.
[kiss]
[Orna VO] So we have a little bit of a...
puzzle to solve here with Boris and Jessica.
[Eyal VO] Yeah.
I did not expect what they came in with,
basically saying, you know, like,
a fairytale.
With a prince and a king, even.
-[chuckles] -[Orna] Yeah, right!
[Ken] Yeah.
Boris is saying that he actually,
in the background, was planning this whole...
birthday party for her,
and then somehow, in the way he did this,
he managed to kind of really turn things around...
Mm-hm.
[Orna] Which, in turn, made her suddenly able to listen to his
plight completely differently...
Mm-hm.
And that's all she needed.
[Jessica] No cannonballs!
[girl shrieks]
[Boris] Whoo!
[girl laughs]
Again!
My thought is that
his partner asked him to leave...
[Orna] Mm-hm.
And he didn't.
And maybe that already demonstrated something about
his commitment.
[Orna VO] So you're saying maybe him not leaving was the
therapeutic agent?
At least the beginning of something.
[Kali] Mm-hm.
But do you think the story continues that way?
This Happy-- Happyland?
-[Eyal] I think... -[chuckles]
Ye-- yeah!
I think there's a good chance because...
[grumbles]
She initiated the tragic end of the story,
and he refused.
That's my--
I get where-- you know, it's significant.
I think it's-- it was an important thing that happened.
But I just am too much of a skeptic and believe in patterns,
-like... -[Eyal] Mm.
This is gonna come back again.
Yeah.
None of you are buying their story.
[chuckling] Are you buying their story?
Maybe they wanted to take control of the narrative.
[Orna] Yes.
And why shouldn't they?
It doesn't make it fake!
[Nuar] No.
But I don't think it's the full story.
It's real right now,
but my thing is that I get worried when couples think,
"We're cured!"
[Nuar] Yeah.
But he did something to avert that immediate--
Very tragic end.
[Eyal] Yeah.
Maybe it's still coming, but he did postpone it.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
I think I would say that...
the key to unlock the misery is to break out of narcissism --
is to, like, put yourself outside of yourself towards
another person.
[Eyal VO] Yes.
[Orna VO] And that act of generosity, like,
made it possible for her to see him.
[Kali VO] Yeah!
♪upbeat tender music♪
[Orna VO] I was happy for them that they got to a better place,
but the truth is, they...
did the opposite of therapy.
♪♪♪
It was not about talking for them.
♪chill funky music♪
[Nick] I just really appreciate you unlocking this for me...
-Mm-hm. -And kinda...
[inhales deeply]
giving me the space to open it up...
-[Orna] Mm-hm. -[Nick] And talk.
♪♪♪
The whole experience revolved around my shame
and some abstract fear about masculinity,
and then that lived with me for 20 or 25 years and has been
eating me up.
But...
I feel like this is not a big deal [chuckles] in many ways.
All my friends will support me, my family will support me,
and the more I talk about it, the more it's...
minimized.
[Orna VO] So how are you two?
-Pretty good. -Pretty good.
I think we had a stressful morning, so...
-[Orna] Mm-hm. -Um...
just...
in-car fight, but we're okay.
"In-car fight?"
Yeah, just small, but we're okay.
-[Orna] Uh-huh. -Yeah.
But I do think that we're bouncing back from things...
[Orna] Mm-hm.
Better.
[Katherine] Yeah.
You know, we had an argument -- a pretty big argument --
the other day, and...
I hadn't told her something about...
this thing, and she'd found out about it and it was, like,
a breach of trust, and she was really angry at me.
[inhales deeply]
Um...
Do you wanna talk about that, what happened?
-[softly] Yeah. -Do you think it's useful?
Yeah, like, I mean--
[Nick] Then let's just talk about it.
Whatever.
-[clears throat] Um... -C'est la vie.
[both chuckle]
Um...
I mean, I took in the mail the other day,
and I-- there was a tax return from FanDuel,
which is a online sports gambling,
and, um, there was a large amount of money
in the tax return...
[Orna] Mm-hm.
As earnings.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
And, um...
I-- I confronted him; I was like,
"What is this?"
[Orna] Mm-hm.
"Have you been gambling?"
And, um...
he said, "Yes."
And...
you didn't tell me about this, so obviously, you knew...
-[inhales sharply] -That this was something...
[exhales deeply]
-You shouldn't be doing... -[Orna] Mm-hm.
Because you would've told me.
Meaning it's risky for you. I mean, it's risky for anyone...
It's risky because, you know, he's in recovery...
-[Orna] Yeah, yeah. -From gambling, and...
[chuckling] I was like, "What's going on?"
-Like... -[Orna] Mm-hm.
-[inhales sharply] -Um...
I was just really angry, and I fel-- I also felt like,
you know, we've been doing all this work around trust and,
like, we've been coming here and, like...
and you still didn't tell me?
You know?
Like, what is that about?
And it's a few days before, like, our last session.
-Like... -[Orna] Mm-hm.
You know, you've had plenty of opportunities to tell me you
were doing this, and that I have to find out by opening a piece
of mail that, like...
If I hadn't seen that, he never would've told me,
and I never would've known.
And he was very apologetic, but then sort of was like,
"Well, your shopping addiction is the same thing."
Mm-hm.
It became that...
-[Orna] Comparison. -Comparison thing...
-[Orna] Yeah. -That, like, I hate.
Well, I mean, forget the comparisons;
it never goes anywhere.
[Katherine] No.
But then, he-- he shifted a little bit...
-[Orna] Mm-hm. -And he was like...
started talking about...
I guess the place where he comes from that makes him wanna do it.
Yeah.
Just to clarify all of that -- 'cause I think it needs to be
clarified -- like, in the past with gambling,
it was, like, addictive, like...
[Orna] Mm-hm.
"I need to...be playing--" like, "I need to win,
and then it's all gonna solve everything,"
and then I would do it and I would go back.
And this is-- this is, like, literally...
spending like 30 dollars on Sundays to win a million-dollar
-tournament... -[Orna] Mm-hm.
With 400,000 people in it,
and I happened to come in fifth place.
Mm-hm.
And so it's sort of like an alcoholic saying,
-"I can have one drink!" -[Orna] Mm-hm.
I know you're not really supposed to, like, go there,
but it is very much...
that.
And so for me, it has been that sort of, like...
"That would solve everything."
[Orna] Mm-hm.
You know?
-Um... -[Orna] Yeah.
That, I understand, and that, the two of you will keep talking
-about it and... -[Katherine] Yeah.
Living with and having your relationship with that.
-I'm... -Yeah.
For our purposes, I'm more interested in what--
-how the conversation goes... -[Nick] Right.
-On this. -[Nick] Right, right, right.
I think I was surprised, when we laid down the next night and
-talked about it... -[Orna] Mm-hm.
I was surprised at how she didn't say anything,
and she just...
-listened. -Mm-hm.
The ability to give me the room to do that was, like--
I was super grateful for that.
And I feel like...
that's what I need.
I mean, in many ways, I feel relieved
-that Katherine found that... -[Orna] Mm-hm.
And that, like, we're just...
talking about it, because, I don't know,
I just think it's really healthy that, like...
this stuff is out in the open and, like...
[Orna] Mm-hm.
I mean, now we really don't have any secrets, I guess.
Now it's done!
I mean, there's nothing left.
-[chuckles] -There's no...
there's no more.
-Yeah. -Is there?
-[chuckling] No. -I'm just kidding.
So how are you leaving?
How has this whole experience...
been for you?
-Really hard. -[chuckles]
Mm-hm.
Yeah, like, I mean, I think coming in, like,
I knew that we just have been stuck in, like...
these patterns and... [sighs]
I feel us, like, opening up out of those patterns
and, like, I-- I think we've...
become much closer.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
[Katherine] I mean, I think we're both kind of like,
"What now?"
Like, "How do we continue?"
Mm-hm.
I mean, it's a lot of things for me.
I f-- I feel like...
-it's just the beginning... -Mm-hm.
[Nick] And, like, "Okay, let's get [chuckles] started"
-in a lot of ways. -Yeah.
What did you say?
What kind of therapy were you recommending for me?
You need to get into psychoanalysis.
-[Katherine] Psychoanalysis. -[Nick] Psychoanalysis.
-That is, like... -[Nick] That's gonna happen.
-For sure. -[Katherine laughs]
[Nick] I'm very--
That, [chuckling] you're getting a referral.
I'm curious and excited about that opportunity and--
Yeah, you're gonna love it.
It's gonna be super interesting for you.
[Nick] Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like the one thing that I'll walk away with is, like,
being able to just be like,
"Hey, I'm going through something hard.
-Can you give me a hug?" -Mm-hm.
[Nick] Like, "This is what's happening to me right now,"
and, like, just that simplicity of, like,
finding the words for what we need.
[Orna] Yeah.
But it seems to me like you're both very good at hearing...
when the other person speaks from that place.
-Mm-hm. -Mm-hm.
You have plenty of goodwill to offer each other,
plenty of real love.
[Nick] Mm-hm.
And, like, that's so...
simple.
[Orna] Yeah, but it's big.
-But it's big. -[Orna] Yeah.
Yeah.
So--
It's a very different way of living.
[Nick] Yeah.
It is.
♪mellow synth music♪
[Orna VO] Sometimes there's a glass ceiling on what you can do
as a couples therapist because there's, like,
serious individual work that needs to happen,
either with both people or just one.
For Nick, he ended with this feeling that his own journey
-is-- is just beginning... -Just begun.
And, over the course of our work,
became quite interested and excited about the possibility of
more individual therapy.
That's great.
So I feel a little win on that.
-[laughs] -[Virginia] Totally.
[Luna laughs]
[Orna VO] I think it will make a huge difference for them.
[Luna laughs]
♪♪♪
You wanna go for walks?
You wanna go to Orna's?
♪♪♪
What are ya thinkin'?
You wanna meet Nico?
You wanna?
And Orna?
You do?
-Hello! -Orna, this is Peanut!
-Hi! -Peanut, meet Nico!
[chuckling] They just walk right by.
[Alison] Hi!
Okay?
-[Alison] What are ya thinkin'? -[Orna] Aw!
[Rod] Yeah?
[Orna] I think we're good!
[Rod] Nico's wagging.
[dogs sniffing]
She's like, "I can't believe this is happening!"
-[Rod chuckles] -"Finally, something for me!"
[Rod] You've got some company.
[Orna] So...
[Alison sighs]
How are you two?
Um, I don't-- I guess I haven't-- not had much time to
kind of digest, but it was pretty heavy last week.
Mm-hm.
We touched some pretty serious issues.
[Orna] Yes.
It's hard to know how to be present...
to someone dying or...
Mm-hm.
Anything else.
I thought that was really important.
-I wanna be present. -[Orna] Mm-hm.
'Cause you lo-- you miss so much...
-[Orna] Yeah. -By not being present.
[Orna] Exactly.
But I really, honestly have to tell you,
this has really...
made a huge, huge change.
Mm-hm.
I didn't realize how much help we needed.
I didn't realize how much...
we hurt each other.
Mm-hm.
So...
I think it's important for you to...
fully take in -- which I think you have,
over the course of our work -- that...
your jumping in...
is blocking Rod from
expressing himself.
Mm-hm.
That does not absolve Rod...
of understanding that you're relying on that
and hiding in that.
Mm-hm.
And it's very easy for you to invite Alison to do that for
you, and bypass your own work.
Mm-hm.
You know, I need to take that, like,
-obsession and obsessiveness... -[Orna] Mm-hm.
Away from things that are out of my control.
Mm-hm.
It's...
the unknown, and I never was able to, like,
be okay with that.
It was a control thing!
-Mm-hm. -[Rod] No, it's true.
You can be overpowering.
The fact you know so you can take a deep breath is gonna
allow me, maybe, to open my mouth somewhat.
I'm not criticizing you, I'm praising you.
But what-- no, no, no, but I'm not-- but I'm not criticizing
-you either but... -[Rod] Yeah.
Why does it have to be what I'm doing...
dictates how you're gonna be?
It-- it makes me angry...
Mm-hm.
To, like, almost wanna say something back to you.
First of all, wonderful that you're not just reacting but
you're reflecting.
[Alison] Mm-hm.
That's very different.
Mm-hm.
Like, in that, you hold...
a lot of power to change a lot of the dynamic between the two
-of you. -Thank you.
-[Orna] It's great. -Thank you.
I can't do this alone.
So I need for y--
No, I don't wanna-- I don't wanna--
I don't need for you.
-Nice. -[Rod chuckles]
'Cause that's you going-- looking at me going--
-giving me eyeballs like... -[Orna] Mm-hm.
"Don't start."
[Orna] Mm-hm.
"Don't tell him what you need."
[Orna] Mm-hm.
'Kay.
[inhales deeply]
[exhales sharply]
Where are you, Rod?
No, I respect what Alison said; it makes sense.
I do sometimes project...
on her to maybe deflect from me.
Mm-hm.
Last week, you were feeling it, and all of a sudden,
you let your guard down.
I liked that.
[Orna] Good.
The more you let your guard down,
the less Alison will need to come after you.
The less you fill in, the more you'll have space to...
-Do your thing. -[Orna] Speak.
-Mm-hm. -[Orna] Do your thing.
Yeah, it does-- it does feel like,
in our apartment and our life, it does feel like there's a new
level of calmness, which is-- which is great.
-[Orna] Yeah. -Absolutely.
But we have to maintain it, 'cause we're gonna have relapse.
We know that; last weekend we did,
and it's been-- it's be-- but the fact we're conscientious of
it is so important.
That's good, but what if we take what you just said...
and try to translate it back into you?
[Rod] Mm-hm.
If we work with the assumption that you're partial to using
Alison to find something in yourself...
[Rod] Right.
What is it?
Let's go back into you.
What are you saying with that?
Maybe I was, you know, hiding behind grief with anger as well,
or...
-buffering grief. -But are you saying that...
because it sounds right,
-or do you-- -[Rod] No, I--
Do you connect with what you're saying?
No, I'm saying it 'cause it sounds right.
I don't-- I don't know, I'm just kinda...
[Orna] Yeah.
Articulating, talking out loud right now,
-so I don't know. -[Orna] Yeah.
-I-- -[Orna] So...
[inhales and exhales deeply]
[Orna] What-- what if you took a minute and tried to see if
what you said about Alison...
[Rod] Mm-hm.
Pertains to you?
I think maybe I-- maybe I've suppressed my feeling in
-general... -Mm-hm.
-[Rod] Without-- -Get curious about them.
[Rod] Mm-hm.
I keep on dabbling with the idea of meditation.
I mean, I've done that in the past.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
And in my mind, it's like, "I should and I need to."
I-- I haven't, but it's something I'm very conscious of.
-[Orna] Yeah. -I'll do it with you!
-I'll go. -[Rod] On these days that--
Let's go!
-But let's-- -You don't have to go anywhere,
you can-- you don't have to go anywhere--
No, but I'm just saying, like, I would even go to--
[Rod] You can just sit on the toilet and do it--
[Orna] Alison.
Sorry.
-Right. -[Rod] It's a personal thing.
Why are you going in there?
I don't know.
[chuckles]
It's just I see it all, which, I guess,
frightens me right now.
And the fear is...?
Being able to come out on the other side and be...
content what the other side is.
I don't know!
I don't know.
Is-- is that okay too?
Yeah.
[Alison] Like, the unknown right now?
Mm-hm.
I think everything that I've learned in all these weeks of
therapy and everything,
this has come full circle,
and now I'm sitting here with my husband,
where I know...
that we're gonna be okay.
Mm-hm.
I think maybe I should go sit on--
-like, over here. -[chuckles]
-Should I give you a kiss? -[kiss]
That's it. [claps]
-We're done. -Great!
We gave each other a kiss!
-[Rod chuckles] -[dog whines]
[laughs]
[dog whines]
♪upbeat chill music♪
[Mondo] Nice.
Turn around.
Very nice.
♪♪♪
Did we tell you the story of our first date?
Mm-mm.
So, we had a great date, but then,
we winded up falling asleep,
and I woke up at, like, three or four in the morning,
and I decided to leave.
But I didn't say goodbye.
I just left.
Mm-hm.
And I left because I thought,
"Wow, this is too good to be true.
Surely, he'll come to his senses."
Mm-hm.
"I should probably just...
end it now."
Slink away.
[Mondo] Yeah.
And I just remember getting in the cab,
and I was like, "What the fuck was that?"
Like...
just one of those perfect, beautiful first dates,
just...
too good to be true, stuff that you literally see in films.
I-- I just thought, "This is impossible!
How did that-- how did that happen?"
And then I went home and I fell asleep,
and I woke up, and he had sent me this really long text
message, and basically, it said,
"I was sad when I woke up and you weren't there.
Please don't ever do that to me again.
When can I see you again?"
-[muffled speech] I was upset. -[chuckles]
-Mm-hm. -[Kyle] I was upset.
I was like, "I just had a great night.
Now you're leaving me too?!"
[Orna] Mm-hm.
Like, the "abandonment."
And I was like, "I'm not doing this.
I'm not gonna not say anything."
-[Mondo] Yeah. -That's great.
So, any thoughts about our last session?
[Kyle] Yeah.
Prior to coming here, our relationship has been good.
Mm-hm.
But now, leaving here, I feel much more...
-Absolutely, a hundred percent. -Grounded, confident...
Mm-hm.
I feel like, also, we've kind of shared some of the stuff that
we both had.
-[Orna] Mm-hm. -Yeah!
Right? Like...
I had the overbearing kind of, like,
over-worry...
-[Orna] Mm-hm. -Right?
Now, I've given him a little bit of the worry...
to think about, wherein now, I'm also taking some of the freedom
-that he's enjoying. -Yeah.
-Nice. -[Mondo] Right? That he wants.
-I'm seeing us exchanging... -Mm-hm.
That's allowing this balance to happen,
that I hope...
I hope we can keep that up in that-- and-- and...
build it from that place.
'Cause I think, from there, then I think we should be able to
understand each other.
-Mm-hm. -[Kyle] Mm-hm.
I hear him, and I hear a much more responsible person now.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
Thank you.
Yeah.
One of the many things that bonds the two of you
is that...
I think you give each other the feeling that you're intelligible
to each other -- that you make sense to each other --
in a way that you didn't have growing up.
Mm.
I totally see it, because there's also been moments where
Kyle and I have referred to our inner child...
-[Orna] Mm-hm. -The-- the young inner child.
-Like, his is "Kalushu"... -Kalushu.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
-Armandito. -Mine is "Armandito"
[Orna] Mm-hm.
So in a way, when you said that,
-I almost saw the two kids... -[Orna] Yeah!
-Playing! -Yes!
[Mondo] Like, those are the two kids!
-You guys are like, "I see you." -[Kyle] Mm-hm.
-[Mondo] Yeah. -Mm-hm.
We recognize each other.
You recognize each other, yeah.
[Kyle] Yeah, yeah.
Yeah!
[sniffles]
Two little kids lost.
And if we were to find each other,
the world wouldn't be so lonely.
[Orna] Right.
[Kyle] It's beautiful.
[laughs]
That's...
It's so cheesy and beautiful and-- and perfect
-in so many ways. -It's not cheesy at all!
-It's cheesy, but it's-- -[Kyle] It's not.
[Mondo] No, it's cheesy in a cute way, but still.
[sniffles]
♪upbeat synth music♪
[softly] Yeah.
-[Nick] Thank you, Orna. -[Katherine] Thank you.
[Nick] Thank you.
[Mondo] Thank you.
-[Katherine] See you soon. -See you soon.
[Alison] Ready?
-[Rod] That's it, we're cured? -Yeah, we're cured.
[Rod] We're cured, we're good, we're cured.
[Alison] Yup.
♪We're all goin'♪
♪Where we won't come back♪
♪Take your foot♪
♪Off the gas♪
♪I wanna get lost♪
♪Along the way...♪
Happy, happy puppy?
Wanna kiss Mommy?
♪We're gonna make it there one day♪
♪♪♪
♪Early in the morning♪
♪When the light is blue...♪
I cannot wait to begin this new life journey with you...
as your husband...
and forever ever your twin flame.
[kiss]
[cheers and applause]
♪♪♪